1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 S1: Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,160 S1: downloading this podcast, and I hope you hear something that 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 S1: will really encourage and edify you. But before you start 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,400 S1: to listen, let me take a moment of your time 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,399 S1: and tell you about this month's truth tool. It's called 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,640 S1: secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And 7 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,360 S1: it follows that very often, whatever our relationship is like 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,000 S1: with authority figures, predominantly our parents, we somehow transferred to 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,000 S1: how we see God. So if we have an angry parent, 10 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,319 S1: he's an angry God. If it's a distant parent, he's 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,520 S1: a God who's not there. I think it's important we 12 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,680 S1: understand who God really is. And in this wonderful book 13 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,760 S1: called secure, you're going to discover the character of God 14 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 S1: and how deeply in love God is with you. It's 15 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,839 S1: our truth tool. Our truth tools are my way of 16 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 S1: saying thank you because we are listener supported radio. So 17 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,600 S1: if you'd like a copy of secure, just call eight 7758. 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,760 S1: That's eight 7758. Give a gift of any amount. My 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,840 S1: way of saying thank you for supporting the program is 20 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 S1: I'll send you a copy of secure. You can also 21 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,560 S1: do this online at in the Market with Janet. Scroll 22 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,720 S1: to the bottom of the page. There's the cover of 23 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,270 S1: the book secure. Click on the photo. Go right on through. 24 00:01:02,310 --> 00:01:04,510 S1: Make your donation and we'll send you a copy again 25 00:01:04,510 --> 00:01:07,509 S1: of secure. If you want to consider becoming a partial partner, 26 00:01:07,510 --> 00:01:10,510 S1: that is the ever increasing circle of friends who give 27 00:01:10,510 --> 00:01:13,030 S1: every single month at a level of their own choosing. 28 00:01:13,030 --> 00:01:15,229 S1: And my way of saying thank you is this you 29 00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:17,509 S1: always get the truth tool for each and every month. 30 00:01:17,510 --> 00:01:20,110 S1: And in addition to that, you get a weekly newsletter 31 00:01:20,110 --> 00:01:22,470 S1: that includes some of my writing and a little audio 32 00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:25,069 S1: piece just for my partial partners. So either way, thank 33 00:01:25,069 --> 00:01:28,670 S1: you in advance for prayerfully considering the opportunity to financially 34 00:01:28,670 --> 00:01:31,310 S1: support in the market with Janet partial and keeping it 35 00:01:31,310 --> 00:01:33,350 S1: on the air now, I hope you hear something that 36 00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:36,149 S1: will encourage you to get out and influence and occupy 37 00:01:36,270 --> 00:01:37,830 S1: in the marketplace of ideas. 38 00:01:39,550 --> 00:01:41,070 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 39 00:01:41,350 --> 00:01:43,589 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 40 00:01:43,790 --> 00:01:45,830 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 41 00:01:46,150 --> 00:01:49,550 S5: Extremely rare safety move by MH 17 years. 42 00:01:49,550 --> 00:01:51,630 S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 43 00:01:51,870 --> 00:01:53,270 S6: Today is not. 44 00:02:07,140 --> 00:02:09,660 S1: Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. 45 00:02:09,660 --> 00:02:11,660 S1: Thanks so much for spending the hour with me. And 46 00:02:11,660 --> 00:02:14,940 S1: a very happy Thursday to you. Before I go any further, 47 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:17,020 S1: I just want to take a moment and thank Tom 48 00:02:17,020 --> 00:02:22,220 S1: Moffatt at Joy Radio in Knoxville for now, making in 49 00:02:22,260 --> 00:02:25,660 S1: the market with Janet Parshall a part of their broadcast day. 50 00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:28,500 S1: It is an honor, Tom, and a delight to be 51 00:02:28,500 --> 00:02:31,500 S1: a part of your broadcast family. Thank you so very much. 52 00:02:31,780 --> 00:02:34,139 S1: I look forward to hearing from our new friends in 53 00:02:34,180 --> 00:02:36,260 S1: Knoxville when we open those phone lines and when we 54 00:02:36,260 --> 00:02:39,100 S1: take questions. But in the meantime, just know that our 55 00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:42,740 S1: heart is that you will be edified, equipped, encouraged, enlightened, 56 00:02:42,860 --> 00:02:45,820 S1: and then gently but consistently pushed out there into the 57 00:02:45,820 --> 00:02:49,180 S1: marketplace of ideas where you can let your light so shine, 58 00:02:49,180 --> 00:02:51,380 S1: where you can live a good life among the pagans, 59 00:02:51,380 --> 00:02:53,780 S1: where you can seek the welfare of the city, and 60 00:02:53,780 --> 00:02:55,859 S1: you can proclaim the good news of the gospel of 61 00:02:55,860 --> 00:02:58,810 S1: Jesus Christ. So again, to my friends at Joy radio 62 00:02:59,850 --> 00:03:02,250 S1: and Tom Moffatt in particular in Knoxville, thank you so 63 00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:05,130 S1: much for allowing me to be a part of your program. Well, 64 00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:07,850 S1: in Washington, DC, we have something known as the National 65 00:03:07,850 --> 00:03:10,410 S1: Prayer Breakfast. This is different from the National Day of 66 00:03:10,410 --> 00:03:13,209 S1: Prayer that takes place the first Thursday in May, but 67 00:03:13,210 --> 00:03:16,090 S1: this goes all the way back to 1953, when at 68 00:03:16,090 --> 00:03:19,690 S1: the time, President Dwight D Eisenhower accepted an invitation to 69 00:03:19,730 --> 00:03:22,490 S1: join members of Congress for what was then a very 70 00:03:22,490 --> 00:03:25,810 S1: early version of the event. And so the event is 71 00:03:25,810 --> 00:03:29,770 S1: already always built around speakers and prayer, and historically features 72 00:03:29,770 --> 00:03:32,970 S1: remarks from the president and other invited guests. There have 73 00:03:32,970 --> 00:03:35,610 S1: been some pretty outstanding presentations, by the way, at this 74 00:03:35,610 --> 00:03:39,410 S1: prayer breakfast. Billy Graham spoke many a time. Randall Wallace, 75 00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:42,650 S1: who wrote Braveheart, has given a speech. It was very memorable. 76 00:03:42,930 --> 00:03:45,490 S1: Lots of dignitaries come, and it isn't just the ones 77 00:03:45,490 --> 00:03:47,170 S1: who are at the podium as well, but it's those 78 00:03:47,170 --> 00:03:49,890 S1: who are in the audience. For example, this year we 79 00:03:49,890 --> 00:03:52,570 S1: have several members of the cabinet who came, but also 80 00:03:52,570 --> 00:03:55,840 S1: foreign dignitaries as well, like the president of El Salvador 81 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,960 S1: and the president of the Congo. So it's one of 82 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,000 S1: those things where you get up early, you go through 83 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:02,920 S1: all of the security, and then you sit down and 84 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,080 S1: you have Republicans and Democrats in a moment of bipartisan 85 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,440 S1: collectiveness praising God. So you'll get members of both sides 86 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,440 S1: of the aisle who will read prayers, they'll offer prayers. 87 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,520 S1: They'll read Scripture this year, by the way, music was 88 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,880 S1: provided by Michael W Smith and Jelly Roll, who just 89 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,480 S1: won a Grammy, by the way, and it was marvelous 90 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,200 S1: to hear just this encouragement for the sake of the cross, 91 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,240 S1: not for the sake of Washington or for government, but 92 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,279 S1: to understand that we chose our national motto In God 93 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,160 S1: we Trust, not by happenstance, but purposely recognizing that we 94 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,080 S1: to this moment, still continued to petition his grace to 95 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,799 S1: fall on us. Mike Johnson is the speaker of the House, 96 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,640 S1: and he had this to say this morning. 97 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,320 S7: I'm just grateful to so many of my colleagues from 98 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,440 S7: the House and Senate in both parties for carrying on 99 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,640 S7: this important tradition for more than seven decades. What a 100 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,400 S7: remarkable thing that is. And so many of them are 101 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,380 S7: here today. Thank you guys. All of you. Thank you. Uh, 102 00:04:56,380 --> 00:04:59,900 S7: after he served as our sixth president, John Quincy Adams 103 00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:02,020 S7: ran for Congress. No one had done it before and 104 00:05:02,020 --> 00:05:04,580 S7: haven't since. But he ran for Congress with a mission. 105 00:05:04,580 --> 00:05:07,580 S7: He wanted to eradicate slavery. He brought the resolution to 106 00:05:07,620 --> 00:05:10,740 S7: accomplish that mission over and over. But the nation, sadly, 107 00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:12,980 S7: was not yet ready for it. And on about the 108 00:05:12,980 --> 00:05:15,700 S7: 13th try, as the story goes, a young member of 109 00:05:15,700 --> 00:05:17,260 S7: Congress went up to him on the floor, on the 110 00:05:17,260 --> 00:05:20,140 S7: House floor and said, Mr. President, why are you doing 111 00:05:20,140 --> 00:05:24,420 S7: it again? And he said, young man, listen, duty is ours. 112 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:28,340 S7: Results are God's. And it's a great and liberating way 113 00:05:28,339 --> 00:05:30,339 S7: for us to live. We believe that as we celebrate 114 00:05:30,339 --> 00:05:33,420 S7: the 250th anniversary of the greatest nation in the history 115 00:05:33,420 --> 00:05:36,219 S7: of the world, we're so blessed to be here. We 116 00:05:36,220 --> 00:05:40,140 S7: understand that it is a spiritual battle to keep it 117 00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:43,380 S7: and to keep freedom, and we don't take that lightly. 118 00:05:43,380 --> 00:05:47,540 S7: Let's pray together, shall we? Heavenly father, thank you so 119 00:05:47,540 --> 00:05:50,100 S7: much for the opportunity I'm charged with with praying this 120 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:53,570 S7: morning for the nation's leaders. And we just heard from 121 00:05:53,570 --> 00:05:56,330 S7: the most powerful man on the planet, the president of 122 00:05:56,330 --> 00:05:59,050 S7: the United States. God, we are reminded in Scripture that 123 00:05:59,050 --> 00:06:01,810 S7: you are the one that raises up those in authority. 124 00:06:02,010 --> 00:06:05,810 S7: And also the words. The truth of Proverbs 21 says, 125 00:06:05,810 --> 00:06:07,810 S7: the king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, 126 00:06:07,810 --> 00:06:11,290 S7: and as the rivers of water, he turns it wherever 127 00:06:11,290 --> 00:06:14,529 S7: he wills. Father, turn his heart, lead him, and guide 128 00:06:14,529 --> 00:06:18,370 S7: him and protect him. Uh, what an important influence he 129 00:06:18,370 --> 00:06:21,850 S7: is on the entire planet. Be with him, walk with him, 130 00:06:21,850 --> 00:06:24,089 S7: and let us be an influence upon him. We pray 131 00:06:24,089 --> 00:06:27,529 S7: that same prayer over our Vice President, JD Vance, over 132 00:06:27,529 --> 00:06:29,730 S7: all of our cabinet secretaries, many of whom are here 133 00:06:29,730 --> 00:06:32,250 S7: with us today, and the heads of leaders of all 134 00:06:32,250 --> 00:06:34,610 S7: of our agencies. We pray for the leaders in the 135 00:06:34,610 --> 00:06:38,210 S7: House and the Senate, all the members who, uh, faithfully 136 00:06:38,210 --> 00:06:40,970 S7: and sacrificially serve to try to help and preserve this 137 00:06:40,970 --> 00:06:44,170 S7: great republic. Give us the wisdom and discernment and the 138 00:06:44,170 --> 00:06:48,650 S7: stamina to accomplish that mission. Father, we pray for all 139 00:06:48,650 --> 00:06:51,250 S7: those who serve on the Supreme Court, our lower courts, 140 00:06:51,250 --> 00:06:56,120 S7: the federal courts around the country. We pray for our 141 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,800 S7: staffs and for the Patriots who serve in all of 142 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,000 S7: our agencies and departments. And Lord, I just conclude by 143 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,440 S7: the simple, the simple request that you protect them all, 144 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,400 S7: that you give us the wisdom to do the things 145 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,720 S7: you've called us to do, and that you remind us 146 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,680 S7: daily that the fear of the Lord is the beginning 147 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,200 S7: of wisdom, and a nation that serves you as the 148 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,760 S7: one that is blessed. May we always be that. Ask 149 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,160 S7: and pray and believe it in Jesus name. Amen. 150 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,400 S1: That goes to the core of the question can anything 151 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,360 S1: good come out of Washington? And you just heard the answer? Yes. 152 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,200 S1: And what a reminder of Paul's direction to his young protege, Timothy, 153 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,000 S1: to pray for those in authority. Now, you and I 154 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,040 S1: had that challenge today at the National Prayer Breakfast, and 155 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,040 S1: we saw it acted out by those who were in authority, 156 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,840 S1: praying for others in authority, and of course, inviting us 157 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,040 S1: to do the exact same thing. So it's paramount that 158 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,160 S1: we do that. I should point out that prayer is 159 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,670 S1: going to be a part of America's 250th birthday celebration. Uh, 160 00:07:52,670 --> 00:07:55,550 S1: there is going to be a call for prayer on 161 00:07:55,550 --> 00:07:58,670 S1: the National Mall on May 17th. Now, I'll give more 162 00:07:58,670 --> 00:08:01,270 S1: information to you as I get it. But Christians are 163 00:08:01,270 --> 00:08:05,630 S1: being invited from all across the country to gather together 164 00:08:05,630 --> 00:08:09,110 S1: and uphold that standard of righteousness and seek the Lord. 165 00:08:09,110 --> 00:08:11,670 S1: In fact, here is part of the wording of what's 166 00:08:11,670 --> 00:08:14,110 S1: going to happen. Join with neighbors and friends from every 167 00:08:14,110 --> 00:08:16,910 S1: state in the Union, giving thanks and praise to God 168 00:08:16,910 --> 00:08:20,430 S1: for 250 years of his providence for the United States, 169 00:08:20,550 --> 00:08:22,950 S1: and praying that God bless and protect America for the 170 00:08:22,950 --> 00:08:27,750 S1: next 250 years. And in solemnly rededicating our country as 171 00:08:27,750 --> 00:08:31,710 S1: one nation under God, in speech, song, and storytelling, we 172 00:08:31,710 --> 00:08:34,910 S1: will bear witness to the extraordinary story of how God 173 00:08:34,910 --> 00:08:38,589 S1: has powerfully and wonderfully shaped the United States of America. 174 00:08:38,790 --> 00:08:42,670 S1: Remembering the people, sacrifices, and defining moments in which God 175 00:08:42,670 --> 00:08:46,710 S1: has powerfully manifested himself in our history. This is more 176 00:08:46,710 --> 00:08:49,460 S1: than an event. It is a once in a lifetime 177 00:08:49,460 --> 00:08:53,940 S1: national movement. And again, that date now is May 17th. 178 00:08:53,980 --> 00:08:57,620 S1: It is a time to rededicate America again, as that 179 00:08:57,620 --> 00:09:01,620 S1: declaration said, as one nation under God. This prayer ceremony 180 00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:04,699 S1: will be held on the National Mall on May 17th. 181 00:09:04,980 --> 00:09:07,540 S1: In fact, the president said today during his remarks, we're 182 00:09:07,540 --> 00:09:10,700 S1: inviting Americans from all across the country to come together 183 00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:13,420 S1: on our National Mall, to pray, to give thanks. And 184 00:09:13,420 --> 00:09:18,980 S1: we're going to rededicate America as one nation under God. So, again, yes, 185 00:09:18,980 --> 00:09:21,060 S1: the evening news will be filled with the infighting, the 186 00:09:21,100 --> 00:09:23,980 S1: bi partisan bickering that goes on. The government's opened, the 187 00:09:23,980 --> 00:09:26,780 S1: government shut, finger pointing, the pejoratives, the name calling. And 188 00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:29,380 S1: in the midst of all of that, blessed is the 189 00:09:29,380 --> 00:09:48,010 S1: nation whose God is the Lord. Back after this. There 190 00:09:48,050 --> 00:09:51,090 S1: are dozens of talk shows that address politics, culture and technology, 191 00:09:51,090 --> 00:09:53,570 S1: but in the market is committed to bringing biblical truths 192 00:09:53,570 --> 00:09:56,650 S1: to every facet of life. When you financially support in 193 00:09:56,650 --> 00:09:58,970 S1: the market as a partial partner, you're helping people to 194 00:09:59,010 --> 00:10:02,410 S1: better understand how their faith intersects with their daily lives. 195 00:10:02,450 --> 00:10:05,770 S1: Become a partial partner today and receive exclusive benefits prepared 196 00:10:05,770 --> 00:10:10,089 S1: just for you. Call 87758 or go online to in 197 00:10:10,130 --> 00:10:27,170 S1: the market with Janet Parshall. Alex Rivkin was born in Kiev, Ukraine. 198 00:10:27,170 --> 00:10:30,809 S1: His family left the Soviet Union as refugees and refuseniks 199 00:10:30,809 --> 00:10:35,530 S1: in 1987. They settled in Sydney, Australia, where Alex attended 200 00:10:35,530 --> 00:10:38,570 S1: Sydney Boys High School before studying law and politics at 201 00:10:38,570 --> 00:10:41,370 S1: the University of New South Wales. He spent time as 202 00:10:41,370 --> 00:10:43,290 S1: a researcher and a speechwriter for a member of the 203 00:10:43,290 --> 00:10:46,640 S1: state legislature, before working as a lawyer at two of 204 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:51,080 S1: the world's largest law firms, first in Sydney, then in London. 205 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,920 S1: He was awarded an Israel Israel Research Fellowship in 2012, 206 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:56,840 S1: worked as a research fellow and staff writer at a 207 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,280 S1: Jerusalem based think tank. Then in 2013, he joined the 208 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:05,280 S1: Executive Council of Australian Jewry, which is Australia's premier representative 209 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,679 S1: and advocacy body for the Australian Jewish community, and was 210 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:13,679 S1: promoted to Co-Chief Executive Officer in February 2018, becoming one 211 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,800 S1: of the youngest leaders in the Jewish diaspora. He was 212 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,880 S1: a member of the Jewish diplomatic corps. I'm spending a 213 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,800 S1: little extra time on this intro, because I want you 214 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,000 S1: to know the gravitas that Alex brings into this conversation, 215 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,600 S1: because you and I are about to get an excellent 216 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,800 S1: tutorial on an important subject. He writes and speaks around 217 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,480 S1: the world on the Arab-Israeli conflict, foreign affairs, anti-Semitism and 218 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,319 S1: the Holocaust, and religion and identity. He's a regular commentator 219 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,800 S1: on TV and radio. He wrote an excellent book that 220 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,079 S1: I had the privilege of spending time with Alex on before, 221 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,630 S1: called the anti-Israel agenda inside the political war on the 222 00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:49,830 S1: Jewish state. He lives in Sydney. He's a father of two. 223 00:11:49,870 --> 00:11:51,990 S1: One on the way. And he has a brand new 224 00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:55,310 S1: book out that is required reading. Were you in my class? 225 00:11:55,309 --> 00:11:57,870 S1: And it is called and it's an important book for 226 00:11:57,870 --> 00:12:01,950 S1: each of us Zionism, the Concise history. Alex, the warmest 227 00:12:01,950 --> 00:12:04,670 S1: of welcome. I am thrilled you came from the land 228 00:12:04,670 --> 00:12:07,670 S1: of Oz. You're on this half of the hemisphere and 229 00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:09,550 S1: I'm so glad you let you know that. Let me 230 00:12:09,550 --> 00:12:10,949 S1: know that you were coming so I would be able 231 00:12:10,950 --> 00:12:13,150 S1: to spend some time speaking with you. And by the way, 232 00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:17,709 S1: this is a monstrously huge subject for a lot of people. 233 00:12:17,710 --> 00:12:19,470 S1: It's like, well, what do you mean? There had to 234 00:12:19,470 --> 00:12:22,590 S1: be this move, this international movement for land, for the 235 00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:24,790 S1: Jewish people. All I have to do is read the Bible. 236 00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:27,550 S1: There's the deed in the book of Deuteronomy. Why was 237 00:12:27,550 --> 00:12:30,590 S1: this ever a point of contention in the first place? 238 00:12:30,590 --> 00:12:32,670 S1: So for a lot of people listening right now from 239 00:12:32,670 --> 00:12:34,510 S1: Guam to the Cayman Islands, that's going to be their 240 00:12:34,510 --> 00:12:37,069 S1: first point, which is before we get to Theodor Herzl 241 00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:39,630 S1: and his ideas, why in the world was there ever 242 00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:42,430 S1: a discussion? I've got my Bible open. And wasn't this 243 00:12:42,429 --> 00:12:44,380 S1: land always for the Jewish people. 244 00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:47,500 S8: Well, firstly, Janet, thank you so much for having me 245 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:50,580 S8: back on. It's always such a delight to speak to you. Look, 246 00:12:50,620 --> 00:12:53,940 S8: you've raised a very important issue and the rights of 247 00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:56,940 S8: the Jewish people to have a homeland, to have national 248 00:12:56,940 --> 00:13:00,020 S8: self-determination in the lands from which you and I know. 249 00:13:00,020 --> 00:13:03,980 S8: And every person of faith understands their ancestral lands and 250 00:13:03,980 --> 00:13:07,980 S8: their biblical and indigenous lands. These rights should be self-evident. 251 00:13:07,980 --> 00:13:10,780 S8: But the history of the Jewish people shows us that 252 00:13:10,780 --> 00:13:12,980 S8: the sort of rights that are taken for granted by 253 00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:16,340 S8: other peoples, the rights to practice their faith, the rights 254 00:13:16,340 --> 00:13:18,620 S8: to live where they choose to live, the rights to 255 00:13:18,660 --> 00:13:21,700 S8: live at all, are frequently withdrawn and trampled when it 256 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:23,980 S8: comes to the Jews. And similarly, the right of the 257 00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:26,500 S8: Jewish people to have a homeland is something that is 258 00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:30,100 S8: deeply contentious. And it's an extraordinary thing because we may 259 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:34,220 S8: disagree with the policies of particular governments or their movements, 260 00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:36,540 S8: but never would we question the legitimacy of that state 261 00:13:36,540 --> 00:13:38,780 S8: to exist. But when it comes to Israel, when it 262 00:13:38,780 --> 00:13:41,339 S8: comes to the national home of the Jewish people, you 263 00:13:41,340 --> 00:13:45,520 S8: see debates over policy go into something far more sinister, 264 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,760 S8: which is a denial of basic, inherent Jewish human rights. 265 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:51,800 S1: Can I linger here a minute? Because I think this 266 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,720 S1: is a hugely important point, and we'll have the opportunity 267 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,679 S1: to wax a little bit philosophically, which is there's a 268 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,120 S1: common sense aspect of here that really defies explanation. So 269 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,559 S1: the Irish have a homeland. The Italian have a homeland. 270 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,040 S1: The poles have a homeland. But when it comes to 271 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,240 S1: the Jewish people, why this became such a bone of 272 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,720 S1: contention for so many nations, not just people, but for 273 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,920 S1: nations as well, is absolutely stunning to me. People groups 274 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,720 S1: have longed for their own nation. There's nothing atypical about 275 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,320 S1: this for the Jewish people, but there is something atypical, 276 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,720 S1: and that is this whole concept of a diaspora, that 277 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,480 S1: God's people were literally scattered. And as a result of that, 278 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,280 S1: there was always in the heart of the Jewish people 279 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,400 S1: a desire to go home, not establish a homeland, but 280 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,320 S1: to go home. So let me fast forward, because there's 281 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,070 S1: just hundreds and hundreds of years of history. But I 282 00:14:42,070 --> 00:14:44,870 S1: think you have to start with the modern Zionist movement. 283 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:47,870 S1: In the pamphlet that went out in 1896, written by 284 00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:52,190 S1: Theodor Herzl, really considered the founder of the modern Zionist movement. 285 00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:53,550 S1: Tell our friends who he was. 286 00:14:54,390 --> 00:14:57,990 S8: Well, firstly, that's a wonderful summary, Janet, and you're absolutely correct. 287 00:14:57,990 --> 00:15:00,990 S8: In in that year, Theodore Herzl, who is regarded as, 288 00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:03,790 S8: as you said, the founding father of modern Zionism. He 289 00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:07,110 S8: drafted what was the seminal text of early Zionism called 290 00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:11,230 S8: The Jewish State. And in it he plans how the 291 00:15:11,230 --> 00:15:16,350 S8: Jewish people will organize as a people and achieve their 292 00:15:16,350 --> 00:15:19,630 S8: physical return to their ancestral lands. And Herzl is an 293 00:15:19,630 --> 00:15:24,870 S8: extraordinary figure. He was fairly secular, almost atheist in his views, 294 00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:27,990 S8: and he believed, really, that the welfare of the Jewish 295 00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:31,590 S8: people would be secured by disappearing into the crowd was 296 00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:34,470 S8: the language that he used by complete assimilation, by shedding 297 00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:38,950 S8: their Jewishness. And then this is rudely dislodged by an 298 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:41,980 S8: extraordinary episode, which is called The Dreyfus Affair, where a 299 00:15:41,980 --> 00:15:44,820 S8: French army officer, a Jew in the French army who 300 00:15:44,820 --> 00:15:49,500 S8: was highly decorated and respected, was arrested, tried, wrongly convicted 301 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:52,620 S8: and then thrown into a distant island prison for passing 302 00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:55,660 S8: military secrets to the Germans. But this happens not because 303 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,380 S8: of his guilt, but because the chief investigator tells the 304 00:15:58,380 --> 00:16:01,700 S8: French foreign minister that Dreyfus Jewish race has made him 305 00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:05,780 S8: suspect for a long time and by some stroke of 306 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:12,940 S8: extraordinary fortune, observing this trial, observing the public degradation of Dreyfus, 307 00:16:12,940 --> 00:16:16,340 S8: observing the mob of Frenchmen outside the courtroom, chanting Death 308 00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:19,020 S8: to Dreyfus, death to the Jews was the 34 year 309 00:16:19,060 --> 00:16:22,300 S8: old Paris correspondent for a Viennese daily newspaper who'd been 310 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:24,420 S8: sent to report on the trial, and that happened to 311 00:16:24,420 --> 00:16:28,300 S8: be Theodore Herzl. And what he saw dislodged completely and 312 00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:31,540 S8: transformed his thinking about how to solve this question of 313 00:16:31,540 --> 00:16:34,660 S8: anti-Semitism and attacks on the dignity of the Jewish people. 314 00:16:34,940 --> 00:16:38,490 S8: And from there he he drafted the Jewish state. He 315 00:16:38,490 --> 00:16:42,610 S8: then convened the First Zionist Congress in Basel, Switzerland, in 1897, 316 00:16:42,810 --> 00:16:45,370 S8: and he really set the Zionist movement on its course. 317 00:16:46,050 --> 00:16:48,970 S1: Wow, that's such a fascinating bit of history, by the way, 318 00:16:49,010 --> 00:16:51,130 S1: since so many of my listeners will get their crash 319 00:16:51,130 --> 00:16:54,210 S1: course in history, although it might not be 100% accurate. 320 00:16:54,250 --> 00:16:57,650 S1: The Dreyfus case is hugely important, and if you're interested 321 00:16:57,650 --> 00:17:00,450 S1: in getting sort of a thumbnail sketch of this, then 322 00:17:00,450 --> 00:17:03,090 S1: I suggest that you watch a movie starring Paul Muni, 323 00:17:03,370 --> 00:17:06,010 S1: who plays the role of Emile Zola. Yes, I'm going 324 00:17:06,010 --> 00:17:08,530 S1: to touch on all these points and the role that 325 00:17:08,530 --> 00:17:11,370 S1: Emile Zola played in the Dreyfus case as well, but 326 00:17:11,369 --> 00:17:14,250 S1: don't mix with miss what Alex was saying. So here 327 00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:18,850 S1: is this rather secular Jew who sees this absolute rise 328 00:17:18,850 --> 00:17:22,090 S1: in anti-Semitism in France, and he goes, uh oh. And 329 00:17:22,090 --> 00:17:25,169 S1: it changes his thinking. He writes this booklet that really 330 00:17:25,170 --> 00:17:28,169 S1: begins a movement called The Jewish State Der Judenstaat. Let 331 00:17:28,170 --> 00:18:01,680 S1: me take a break. We'll be right back. So honored 332 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,600 S1: to spend time with Alex Rivkin, who is a director, 333 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,480 S1: the director of Public Affairs at the Executive Council of 334 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,000 S1: Australian Jewry and a member of the Jewish Diplomatic Corps. 335 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,160 S1: His newest book is out fabulous, fabulous book that really 336 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,600 S1: gives you once and for all the history of Zionism. 337 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,919 S1: In fact, it's called Zionism, The Concise History. Now you 338 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,000 S1: understand this is a tome and it takes time to 339 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,920 S1: read it, and it's one of those books you're going 340 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,640 S1: to want to keep on your shelf all the time. 341 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,160 S1: So forgive me. I do not mean to minimize any 342 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,840 S1: aspect of the story of the history of Zionism, but 343 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,869 S1: in deference to time, you understand that? I have to 344 00:18:35,910 --> 00:18:38,030 S1: go over the surface quickly. Let me just give you. 345 00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:40,190 S1: We were talking about Theodore Herzl, who, again, is deemed 346 00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:42,910 S1: to be the founder of modern Zionism in his book 347 00:18:42,910 --> 00:18:45,510 S1: The Jewish. This pamphlet, The Jewish State, which really started 348 00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:49,190 S1: a groundswell of movement, now moving back to Israel. He said, 349 00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:51,830 S1: I believe that a wondrous generation of Jews will spring 350 00:18:51,869 --> 00:18:55,149 S1: into existence. The maccabeans will rise again. Let me repeat 351 00:18:55,150 --> 00:18:58,230 S1: once more my opening words the Jews who wish for 352 00:18:58,230 --> 00:19:00,669 S1: a state will have it. We shall live at last 353 00:19:00,670 --> 00:19:03,790 S1: as free men on our own soil, and die peacefully 354 00:19:03,790 --> 00:19:05,750 S1: in our own homes. The world will be freed by 355 00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:09,630 S1: our liberty, enriched by our wealth, magnified by our greatness. 356 00:19:09,630 --> 00:19:12,470 S1: And whatever we attempt there to accomplish for our own 357 00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:17,149 S1: welfare will react powerfully and beneficially for the good of humanity. 358 00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:19,909 S1: Those were prophetic words and how true they are. So 359 00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:23,110 S1: let me ask this question. After this groundswell started, and 360 00:19:23,109 --> 00:19:24,709 S1: there's so much we could talk about the rise of 361 00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:28,350 S1: anti-Semitism and the diaspora that have happened there. But the 362 00:19:28,350 --> 00:19:30,310 S1: move was to go back to what was being called. 363 00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:33,230 S1: And this is, again, language in this whole discussion. Alex 364 00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:35,460 S1: is so important. It was a movement to go back 365 00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:38,940 S1: to what was called Ottoman Palestine. Can. Let me just 366 00:19:38,940 --> 00:19:41,379 S1: break that apart. Can I go to the word Palestine first? 367 00:19:41,380 --> 00:19:43,920 S1: Because for people who are just listening to a three 368 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,580 S1: minute news story or just give a cursory read to 369 00:19:46,619 --> 00:19:51,900 S1: an already biased publication out there, the argument is made 370 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:54,659 S1: against the Jewish people having a homeland because, hey, after all, 371 00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:58,740 S1: it was called Palestine. Can we back up and discover 372 00:19:58,740 --> 00:20:02,300 S1: the name, the history of the name Palestine and what 373 00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:03,340 S1: that encompasses? 374 00:20:03,740 --> 00:20:06,540 S8: Yeah, you're quite right, Janet. And language is so important 375 00:20:06,540 --> 00:20:09,619 S8: in in any political issue, and in this one in particular, 376 00:20:10,020 --> 00:20:14,180 S8: language has become so toxic. It's been so politicized that 377 00:20:14,180 --> 00:20:18,180 S8: it's absolutely essential that we reclaim terms like Zionism and 378 00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:22,300 S8: understand where terms like Palestine come from. So the land 379 00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:26,100 S8: which came to be known as Palestine was formerly known 380 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:30,620 S8: as Judea, as Judah, it was colonized by the Roman Empire. 381 00:20:30,619 --> 00:20:33,810 S8: And then in the year 135 CE, when the Jewish 382 00:20:33,810 --> 00:20:37,250 S8: rebels tried to throw off Roman rule and live freely 383 00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:40,490 S8: in their own land, the Emperor Hadrian put down that 384 00:20:40,490 --> 00:20:44,409 S8: rebellion with great brutality. He massacred hundreds of thousands of Jews, 385 00:20:44,410 --> 00:20:47,290 S8: scattering more throughout the lands of the Roman Empire, hoping 386 00:20:47,290 --> 00:20:50,010 S8: that the people would soon forget their native lands. He 387 00:20:50,010 --> 00:20:53,250 S8: then prohibited entry of Jews into Jerusalem on pain of death. 388 00:20:53,450 --> 00:20:55,609 S8: He erected a pagan temple on the ruins of the 389 00:20:55,609 --> 00:21:00,209 S8: Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. He renamed Aelia Capitolina. He renamed 390 00:21:00,210 --> 00:21:04,850 S8: Jerusalem Aelia Capitolina and he renamed Judea Syria Palaestina, and 391 00:21:04,850 --> 00:21:08,570 S8: that latter term, Syria Palaestina, was associated with the Philistines, 392 00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:11,050 S8: the great foes of the Israelites that had lived in 393 00:21:11,050 --> 00:21:13,450 S8: the land, but had ceased to exist as a distinct 394 00:21:13,450 --> 00:21:17,130 S8: people centuries before, and what Hadrian was seeking to do 395 00:21:17,130 --> 00:21:20,130 S8: by scattering the people by destroying their sacred sites, by 396 00:21:20,130 --> 00:21:23,609 S8: renaming their land, he was hoping to break that bond 397 00:21:23,609 --> 00:21:26,770 S8: of peoplehood, of nationhood, and hope that the Jews would 398 00:21:26,770 --> 00:21:29,210 S8: simply vanish among the peoples where they had come to live. 399 00:21:29,609 --> 00:21:31,840 S8: But of course, the Jews would never forget Zion. It 400 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,959 S8: was the land in which they became a people. It 401 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,080 S8: was the land in which they developed the Hebrew language 402 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,119 S8: in which they developed their greatest gift to the world, 403 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,080 S8: which are the ethics derived from the Jewish religion. And 404 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,160 S8: so in every generation, the Jews sought to restore themselves 405 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,640 S8: to that land despite prohibitions, despite oppressive regimes which stopped 406 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,320 S8: them from returning. But it was really only in modern times. 407 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,200 S8: In the late 19th century, following the emergence of Theodore Herzl, 408 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,720 S8: who we've spoken about, that this yearning to go home 409 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,359 S8: took the form of a precise political program which resulted 410 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,160 S8: in the eventual restoration of the Jewish people to their lands. 411 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,680 S1: Amazing. Truly amazing. All right. Now, I think it's imperative 412 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,320 S1: for us to understand in this timeline that a lot 413 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,720 S1: of this begins before 1948. That's date is significant. We'll 414 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,000 S1: come back to that in a minute. But another bit 415 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,880 S1: of wrong thinking in this is the idea that this 416 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,080 S1: whole movement toward establishing a Jewish state was a reaction 417 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:32,700 S1: against fascism and Nazism and Hitler itself himself. Back that up, 418 00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:35,180 S1: if you would, Alex, and explain how because you just 419 00:22:35,180 --> 00:22:38,300 S1: talked about Theodor Herzl in the 1800s. So obviously that 420 00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:41,340 S1: predates Hitler and everything that was happening. But how does 421 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:43,700 S1: Hitler and the establishment of the Jewish state fit into 422 00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:44,340 S1: all of this? 423 00:22:44,780 --> 00:22:47,060 S8: Right. So a lot of the critics of the state 424 00:22:47,060 --> 00:22:51,340 S8: of Israel today, people like Rashida Tlaib, will falsely claim, 425 00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:53,900 S8: basically that Israel was a burden dropped on the heads 426 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:56,899 S8: of the Arabs to atone for European guilt. And the 427 00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:59,420 S8: reason why they level that accusation is because they want 428 00:22:59,420 --> 00:23:01,820 S8: to make it sound like the Jews have no roots 429 00:23:01,820 --> 00:23:05,179 S8: in the land, that they're effectively European colonizers, and that 430 00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:08,420 S8: they were warmly welcomed by the Arabs who lived in Palestine, 431 00:23:08,420 --> 00:23:11,820 S8: which is an utter nonsense. Um, but as we've seen, 432 00:23:11,940 --> 00:23:16,100 S8: the legitimacy of Zionism, the Zionist movement, the movement for 433 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:18,379 S8: national Return of the Jewish people had been in full 434 00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:21,980 S8: swing long before the Holocaust period. So you have the 435 00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:25,820 S8: Balfour Declaration in 1917, under which the British pledged to 436 00:23:25,859 --> 00:23:28,770 S8: create a Jewish national home in the land that Hadrian 437 00:23:28,770 --> 00:23:31,810 S8: had renamed Palestine. You have a statement made by US 438 00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:36,090 S8: President Woodrow Wilson in 1918 also supporting this, and this 439 00:23:36,090 --> 00:23:38,689 S8: is in keeping with the principle after the end of 440 00:23:38,690 --> 00:23:42,530 S8: World War one, that the former lands of the Ottoman Empire, 441 00:23:42,530 --> 00:23:46,409 S8: which had been colonized for hundreds of years, should be decolonized, 442 00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:49,210 S8: and their native peoples should stand on their own. And 443 00:23:49,210 --> 00:23:51,729 S8: the Jews as being the native peoples of Palestine, a 444 00:23:51,730 --> 00:23:54,770 S8: land with which they'd been intimately and profoundly associated for 445 00:23:54,770 --> 00:23:59,930 S8: over 3000 years, naturally sought to exercise self-determination in that land. 446 00:24:00,210 --> 00:24:04,290 S8: You then have a long trail of international law, of treaties, 447 00:24:04,290 --> 00:24:08,130 S8: of agreements from San Remo to Sierra and Lucerne, to 448 00:24:08,170 --> 00:24:11,570 S8: the League of Nations covenant, which established the legitimacy of 449 00:24:11,570 --> 00:24:15,530 S8: Zionism long before the Holocaust period. But the Holocaust, all 450 00:24:15,530 --> 00:24:18,330 S8: it's served to do was to prove the necessity of Zionism, 451 00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:20,850 S8: to prove that the return of the Jewish people was 452 00:24:20,850 --> 00:24:23,890 S8: not only a legal right, it was an existential necessity. 453 00:24:24,490 --> 00:24:27,960 S1: Absolutely, absolutely. Let me take a break and come right back. 454 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,480 S1: Alex's brand new book is called Zionism The Concise History, 455 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,480 S1: and it is just that I strongly recommend it to you. 456 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,440 S1: We're going to pick up our conversation at this point 457 00:24:36,440 --> 00:25:00,480 S1: when we return. The Bible says the Word of God 458 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,840 S1: illuminates our walk through life. It's a lamp to our 459 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,760 S1: feet and a light to our path. Without it, we 460 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,560 S1: stumble and fall in the market with Janet Partial is 461 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,199 S1: designed to help you look at the headlines of the 462 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,359 S1: day through the lens of Scripture. When you become a 463 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,280 S1: partial partner, you help to make this broadcast possible, and 464 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,120 S1: as a partial partner, you'll receive exclusive benefits. So why 465 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,840 S1: not become a partial partner today? Call 877 Janet 58 466 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:27,310 S1: or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. By 467 00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:28,869 S1: the way, you hear me say often, we need to 468 00:25:28,869 --> 00:25:30,710 S1: go through life with the Bible in one hand and 469 00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:33,790 S1: the newspaper in the other. I still believe it, particularly 470 00:25:34,150 --> 00:25:37,149 S1: as it pertains to the subject of the nation of Israel, 471 00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:40,870 S1: the most disputed piece of real estate on planet Earth. 472 00:25:40,869 --> 00:25:43,190 S1: But it's imperative that you get the history. You're not 473 00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:47,190 S1: going to understand the so-called Arab Arab-Israeli conflict if you 474 00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:51,750 S1: don't understand the history. And sometimes revisionists like to twist 475 00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:55,990 S1: like a pretzel the history of Israel for their own advantage. 476 00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:58,150 S1: When you know the facts, it is amazing. As John 477 00:25:58,150 --> 00:26:01,629 S1: Adams said, they are stubborn things. So Alex Rivkin has 478 00:26:01,630 --> 00:26:04,750 S1: written a brand new book called Zionism The Concise History. 479 00:26:04,790 --> 00:26:07,550 S1: It is a definitive book on the subject. It will 480 00:26:07,550 --> 00:26:10,070 S1: remain on our shelf for quite some time as a 481 00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:13,350 S1: definitive source. Alex is many things. He's a brilliant man, 482 00:26:13,390 --> 00:26:15,950 S1: but he's the director of public affairs at the Executive 483 00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:18,669 S1: Council of Australian Jewry and a member of the Jewish 484 00:26:18,670 --> 00:26:21,190 S1: Diplomatic Corps. And if I can let me go back 485 00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:23,550 S1: to exactly where we left off before. And that is 486 00:26:23,550 --> 00:26:26,740 S1: this whole concept of the Balfour Declaration. So if we 487 00:26:26,740 --> 00:26:30,820 S1: go back to 1917, by the way, November 2nd, we've 488 00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:35,659 S1: got the Foreign Secretary, Arthur Balfour, who writes to Lord Rothschild, 489 00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:38,220 S1: who's a leader of the British Jewish community. And he 490 00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:40,379 S1: says this. And the language here is profoundly important to 491 00:26:40,380 --> 00:26:45,900 S1: our conversation. His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment 492 00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:50,900 S1: in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, 493 00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:53,700 S1: and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement 494 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:56,580 S1: of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall 495 00:26:56,580 --> 00:27:00,020 S1: be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights 496 00:27:00,020 --> 00:27:03,420 S1: of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and 497 00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:07,100 S1: political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. Alex, 498 00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:08,900 S1: the reason that's so important is because we have this 499 00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:12,060 S1: language and, you know, particularly as a trained lawyer, language 500 00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:15,900 S1: is everything in litigation. National home. We had never seen 501 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:20,140 S1: that language before. It was important, but it was also ambiguous. 502 00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:23,290 S1: So it takes us to this idea that if Great 503 00:27:23,290 --> 00:27:25,650 S1: Britain was going to put in place through the directive 504 00:27:25,650 --> 00:27:28,330 S1: of the King, the establishment of a Jewish home, they 505 00:27:28,330 --> 00:27:30,649 S1: also did something else. And that is they started to 506 00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:33,650 S1: lay down boundaries. And herein lies part of the problem. 507 00:27:33,690 --> 00:27:34,850 S1: Talk to me about this. 508 00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:37,050 S9: Well, one of the great problems. 509 00:27:37,050 --> 00:27:39,970 S8: That emerged from the Balfour Declaration, as you read there, 510 00:27:40,010 --> 00:27:43,810 S8: it's it's written in very legalistic and kind of tepid 511 00:27:43,810 --> 00:27:47,530 S8: bureaucratic language. It says a lot, but it also carves 512 00:27:47,530 --> 00:27:50,369 S8: out a great deal and tries to balance competing claims 513 00:27:50,369 --> 00:27:55,130 S8: and so forth. And it really stemmed from something virtuous, 514 00:27:55,170 --> 00:27:58,170 S8: a belief that the indigenous peoples of the land should, 515 00:27:58,170 --> 00:28:00,729 S8: if they choose, return to that land to reconstitute their 516 00:28:00,730 --> 00:28:03,570 S8: national home. But those who live in that land who 517 00:28:03,570 --> 00:28:07,530 S8: aren't Jewish can enjoy full civil rights. And those Jews 518 00:28:07,530 --> 00:28:10,129 S8: who wish to live in other countries can continue to 519 00:28:10,130 --> 00:28:13,570 S8: do so as free citizens. The problem that emerged in 520 00:28:13,570 --> 00:28:16,570 S8: subsequent years was that the minute the Jews began to 521 00:28:16,609 --> 00:28:20,290 S8: organize into a national movement and assert their rights of equality, 522 00:28:20,530 --> 00:28:23,480 S8: a counter movement formed against it, and that movement was 523 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,800 S8: largely led by a man by the name of. He 524 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,639 S8: later became known as Haj Amin al-Husseini, who became the 525 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,600 S8: Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the leader of the Supreme 526 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,800 S8: Arab Council in Palestine. And he really set on the course. Firstly, 527 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,320 S8: the notion of political Islam, which plagues the world to 528 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:45,080 S8: this day, but also the concept of fusing Arab nationalism 529 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,040 S8: with Islamic doctrine to turn opposition to Zionism from a 530 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:54,080 S8: local dispute into an international Islamic imperative. He then, during 531 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,320 S8: the war, he sides with the Nazis, and he spends 532 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,240 S8: much of the war in Berlin recruiting Muslims to fight 533 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,200 S8: alongside the Nazis, and he calls for the extension of 534 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,720 S8: the Holocaust from Europe to the Middle East to wipe 535 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,440 S8: out the Jews globally. So this really gives you an 536 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,520 S8: idea of the sort of people that were driving the 537 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,840 S8: anti-Zionist movement. And the British were trying to do some 538 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,880 S8: delicate balancing, where on the one hand, they wanted to 539 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,390 S8: remain true to their promises to the Jews and deliver 540 00:29:20,390 --> 00:29:23,469 S8: on the Balfour Declaration, which pledged a national home for 541 00:29:23,470 --> 00:29:25,350 S8: the Jewish people. And, on the other hand, they were 542 00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:28,310 S8: trying to placate the Arabs, who were using violence and 543 00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:31,310 S8: boycotts and threats of even greater violence to try and 544 00:29:31,310 --> 00:29:34,830 S8: stifle that Jewish state. And soon the British would find 545 00:29:34,830 --> 00:29:36,830 S8: that there was no middle course. There was no compromise 546 00:29:36,830 --> 00:29:41,750 S8: to be drawn between Zionism and fervent anti-Zionism, and they 547 00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:44,910 S8: end up discarding their historic promises and handing over the 548 00:29:44,910 --> 00:29:48,550 S8: matter to the United Nations in 1947. So it really 549 00:29:48,550 --> 00:29:53,150 S8: shows how, sadly, in the Middle East, violence, the threats 550 00:29:53,150 --> 00:29:59,910 S8: of violence are being totally hostile to any form of 551 00:29:59,910 --> 00:30:04,229 S8: negotiation or concession actually achieves a great deal. And it 552 00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:08,030 S8: was only through following the Holocaust that the Jews were 553 00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:10,630 S8: actually able to achieve their national home in the face 554 00:30:10,830 --> 00:30:11,950 S8: of that hostility. 555 00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:15,350 S1: Yes, yes. You said something extremely important. I want to 556 00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:16,990 S1: go back and make sure our friends picked up on it. 557 00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:19,220 S1: So you talked about the mufti in Jerusalem who did 558 00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:22,940 S1: this amalgamation, which we see in the headlines today between 559 00:30:23,140 --> 00:30:26,020 S1: Islam as a religious system and Islam as a political 560 00:30:26,020 --> 00:30:29,060 S1: system as well. And the blend the two together and 561 00:30:29,060 --> 00:30:32,100 S1: it becomes very, very toxic because it squelches any concept 562 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:36,100 S1: of personal liberty. The antithesis takes place in Israel. In fact, 563 00:30:36,140 --> 00:30:38,980 S1: I think when my friends listening go to Israel for 564 00:30:38,980 --> 00:30:41,180 S1: the first time, they may be surprised how very secular 565 00:30:41,220 --> 00:30:43,940 S1: the country is. The other thing, too, is that it 566 00:30:43,940 --> 00:30:47,300 S1: is anything but establishing a national religion. It's called the 567 00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:50,580 S1: Jewish state. But there's no coercion by the government. There's 568 00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:53,900 S1: no forced participation. As I've sat and watched sessions of 569 00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:59,220 S1: the Knesset, I watch Arab members of the Israeli Knesset participate. 570 00:30:59,220 --> 00:31:01,340 S1: I don't think the antithesis could be found at any 571 00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:06,140 S1: Palestinian territories. So that germ that goes back pre 47 572 00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:10,140 S1: is still very much at play today, where the idea 573 00:31:10,140 --> 00:31:13,700 S1: of real, real liberty and democracy, so that it's an 574 00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:16,900 S1: all comers welcoming policy, has been in place from the 575 00:31:17,010 --> 00:31:20,610 S1: inception of Israel as a nation. But it stands in 576 00:31:20,610 --> 00:31:23,370 S1: stark contradiction to the idea behind the mufti, who really 577 00:31:23,370 --> 00:31:28,130 S1: wanted anything but exclusion strict adherence to a kind of Islam. 578 00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:31,690 S1: No idea of personal liberty, that that dichotomy can't be missed, 579 00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:33,610 S1: because that tension, it seems to me, is still at 580 00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:34,290 S1: play today. 581 00:31:35,730 --> 00:31:37,770 S8: And I think one of the one of the aspects 582 00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:40,810 S8: that's least understood about Israel. And when we talk about 583 00:31:40,810 --> 00:31:43,810 S8: a Jewish state, as you very correctly pointed out, we're 584 00:31:43,810 --> 00:31:46,050 S8: not talking about a theocracy. We're not talking about a 585 00:31:46,050 --> 00:31:49,170 S8: religious state. We're talking about the Jews as being in 586 00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:51,850 S8: addition to a religious group being a distinct ethnic and 587 00:31:51,850 --> 00:31:55,410 S8: national group being a people, and Israel, the purpose of 588 00:31:55,410 --> 00:31:59,450 S8: Israel is for that people to exercise their national self-determination 589 00:31:59,450 --> 00:32:02,690 S8: and determine their own political status and destiny. And within 590 00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:05,810 S8: that society, you have people who are deeply religious, who 591 00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:08,570 S8: live according to the ancient texts and practices, and then 592 00:32:08,570 --> 00:32:11,210 S8: you have those who are deeply secular, and then everything 593 00:32:11,210 --> 00:32:14,690 S8: in between. And certainly in the Palestinian territories with the 594 00:32:14,690 --> 00:32:17,030 S8: emergence of a Emergence of a Palestinian national movement to 595 00:32:17,070 --> 00:32:20,710 S8: counter Zionism. There's this great schism in that movement where 596 00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:23,390 S8: and you see it starkly with what's happening in Gaza 597 00:32:23,390 --> 00:32:26,830 S8: compared with the Palestinian Authority, where you have Hamas, which 598 00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:31,590 S8: has a vision of a theocratic, brutal Islamist state. And 599 00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:34,110 S8: then you have in the Palestinian territories, they talk about 600 00:32:34,110 --> 00:32:38,710 S8: more nationalist, secular, democratic form of government, which is still 601 00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:42,750 S8: highly contentious because the West Bank is riddled with its 602 00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:46,630 S8: own problems with violence and extremism and corruption. But the 603 00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:49,550 S8: Palestinians have not been able to decide for themselves whether 604 00:32:49,550 --> 00:32:51,910 S8: it's going to be a secular, democratic state or whether 605 00:32:51,910 --> 00:32:55,310 S8: it's going to be an Islamist state, as Hamas foresees. 606 00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:59,190 S1: Exactly right. So and you cannot talk about the concise 607 00:32:59,190 --> 00:33:01,950 S1: history of Zionism without talking about the current conflict, because 608 00:33:01,950 --> 00:33:04,310 S1: there is very much a connection between the two. So 609 00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:06,710 S1: you just used a phrase West Bank, which is interesting 610 00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:09,469 S1: because in 48, I doubt anyone would have referred to 611 00:33:09,510 --> 00:33:12,630 S1: Judea and Samaria as the West Bank. These are now 612 00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:15,580 S1: common parlance that we use all the time. That was 613 00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:17,700 S1: never there from the inception of this country. Then if 614 00:33:17,740 --> 00:33:20,780 S1: you add the idea that there's an East Jerusalem and 615 00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:23,900 S1: West Jerusalem, and I keep waiting for that bright line 616 00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:26,580 S1: that goes right down the city, and I cannot find it, 617 00:33:26,580 --> 00:33:29,980 S1: or the fact that somehow the Golan Heights belong to Syria. 618 00:33:30,020 --> 00:33:31,820 S1: I mean, you begin to see this sort of I 619 00:33:31,860 --> 00:33:35,340 S1: call it the Swiss cheese approach. Um, in what we're 620 00:33:35,340 --> 00:33:38,340 S1: trying to deal with currently with Israel today. So carving out, 621 00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:42,620 S1: carving out, carving out, based on the idea that these were, quote, 622 00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:46,180 S1: always our lands gives us the right to return. How 623 00:33:46,180 --> 00:33:48,860 S1: does that conflict get resolved? Because if we have the 624 00:33:48,860 --> 00:33:51,820 S1: established Jewish state, but we we now pretend that Judea 625 00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:55,940 S1: and Samaria is, quote, Palestinian territories. And we have what 626 00:33:55,940 --> 00:33:59,660 S1: I heard one US Secretary of State call the contiguous 627 00:33:59,660 --> 00:34:02,060 S1: nation of Israel. I don't think there are a lot 628 00:34:02,060 --> 00:34:05,860 S1: of contiguous nations out here in the world other than Israel. 629 00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:07,540 S1: Apparently we're going to set that up as a standard 630 00:34:07,540 --> 00:34:11,020 S1: for this country. But how does one maintain the right 631 00:34:11,060 --> 00:34:14,730 S1: of self rule and sovereignty. If you believe that there 632 00:34:14,810 --> 00:34:17,410 S1: are pockets of your country that don't belong to you. 633 00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:20,810 S8: Well, one of the most interesting things I found in 634 00:34:20,810 --> 00:34:23,890 S8: in researching the story of Zionism, and particularly the political 635 00:34:23,890 --> 00:34:27,650 S8: negotiations that happened in very, very many parts of that story. 636 00:34:28,170 --> 00:34:30,049 S8: And it really showed to me that this is not 637 00:34:30,050 --> 00:34:33,330 S8: a territorial dispute. This is not a political dispute which 638 00:34:33,330 --> 00:34:36,250 S8: can be settled by a map and a pen and 639 00:34:36,489 --> 00:34:40,650 S8: and drawing borders and boundaries and so forth. Um, history 640 00:34:40,690 --> 00:34:44,089 S8: has shown that this has been a dispute about the 641 00:34:44,090 --> 00:34:46,530 S8: basic inherent rights of the Jewish people and the denial 642 00:34:46,530 --> 00:34:50,530 S8: of those rights. So in 1937, we see, in response 643 00:34:50,530 --> 00:34:53,730 S8: to growing violence and boycotts by the Arabs in Palestine, 644 00:34:53,730 --> 00:34:56,089 S8: you see the British call a royal commission, which was 645 00:34:56,090 --> 00:34:59,489 S8: called the Peel Commission. And the Peel Commission proposes for 646 00:34:59,489 --> 00:35:02,370 S8: the first time partition of the land and the creation 647 00:35:02,370 --> 00:35:04,890 S8: of two states. So it would create a tiny, tiny 648 00:35:04,890 --> 00:35:09,569 S8: little Jewish state on 4% of historic Palestine, and the 649 00:35:09,570 --> 00:35:13,600 S8: rest being an Arab state joined together with Transjordan, which 650 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,160 S8: was made into an Arab Palestinian state on the east 651 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,080 S8: bank of the River Jordan, and even that which would 652 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,560 S8: have given the Arab Palestinians self-determination, which would have given 653 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,759 S8: them a state much, much bigger than that allotted to 654 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,000 S8: the Jewish people, was violently rejected by the Arab side. 655 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,480 S8: And that really tells you that it's not about the 656 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,839 S8: West Bank, it's not about the Golan Heights, it's not 657 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,520 S8: about this piece of land or that it's about coming 658 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,000 S8: to terms with the idea that the Jews are a 659 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,239 S8: people with national and human rights, and they have returned 660 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,040 S8: home and they're not going anywhere. 661 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,800 S1: Yeah, exactly. Right. Alex, let me take a break because 662 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,000 S1: you didn't use the word, but it's the underpinning of 663 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,080 S1: all of this, which is anti-Semitism. It was there in 664 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,120 S1: the 1800s. And the European continent. It is alive and 665 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,399 S1: well and almost stunningly seems to be growing here in 666 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,200 S1: the United States and on the European continent as well. 667 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,959 S1: So if that's the underpinning, this basic question of whether 668 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,759 S1: or not the Jewish people have a right to a 669 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,670 S1: nation if it's predicated on just an outright, unmasked hatred 670 00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:15,950 S1: toward the Jews. Where do we find resolution? This book 671 00:36:15,950 --> 00:36:18,870 S1: is powerful. It's important, particularly if you and I are 672 00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:22,710 S1: praying for the peace of Jerusalem, as we have been instructed. Zionism, 673 00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:25,630 S1: the concise history. It's there on my website in the 674 00:36:25,630 --> 00:36:28,750 S1: market with Janet Parshall. Click on that red box. It 675 00:36:28,750 --> 00:36:32,190 S1: says program details and audio takes you to the information page. 676 00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:34,750 S1: You'll learn more about Alex, the book, and a link 677 00:36:34,750 --> 00:36:37,110 S1: also to the wonderful work he does at the at 678 00:36:37,150 --> 00:37:04,390 S1: the Executive Council of Australian Jewry back after this. Brand 679 00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:08,470 S1: new book by Alex Ryvchin is called Zionism The Concise History. 680 00:37:08,510 --> 00:37:11,379 S1: It is a superb telling of the history of this 681 00:37:11,380 --> 00:37:15,180 S1: most important piece of real estate. I talked before about 682 00:37:15,180 --> 00:37:17,700 S1: walking through life with the Bible in one hand, in 683 00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:20,500 S1: the newspaper and the other, but never, ever taking your 684 00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:23,219 S1: eyes off of Israel. Well, I tell you, this is 685 00:37:23,219 --> 00:37:27,219 S1: a fascinating history, and I'm glad that Alex took a 686 00:37:27,260 --> 00:37:30,820 S1: long time to put this together. Just tons of research, 687 00:37:30,940 --> 00:37:33,060 S1: and I'm so grateful that there really is now this 688 00:37:33,060 --> 00:37:36,100 S1: definitive text on the history of Zionism. So before I 689 00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:38,819 S1: go back and examine this question of anti-Semitism, because this 690 00:37:38,820 --> 00:37:41,340 S1: is the underpinning of so much. Let me go back 691 00:37:41,340 --> 00:37:43,980 S1: in time. We talked about 47. Let me go to 48. 692 00:37:43,980 --> 00:37:46,219 S1: So it gets pushed back on the shoulders of the 693 00:37:46,219 --> 00:37:50,259 S1: United Nations. And I look at the that gathering of 694 00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:54,420 S1: that body of nations then versus that body of nations. Now, 695 00:37:54,460 --> 00:37:57,380 S1: Alex and I don't think Israel would have ever been established. 696 00:37:57,380 --> 00:38:01,500 S1: What happened in 1948 that finally there was a move 697 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:04,900 S1: in that gathering of bodies where they said, yes, there 698 00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:07,020 S1: shall be a land for the Jewish people. 699 00:38:08,050 --> 00:38:11,930 S8: So first you have in 1947, you have the British 700 00:38:11,930 --> 00:38:14,690 S8: handing over their mandate for Palestine, which obligated them to 701 00:38:14,730 --> 00:38:17,530 S8: create a Jewish national home in the land they realized 702 00:38:17,530 --> 00:38:19,930 S8: they weren't capable of delivering. So they handed the question 703 00:38:19,969 --> 00:38:22,770 S8: of Palestine back over to the United Nations, and the 704 00:38:22,770 --> 00:38:26,250 S8: United Nations forms a committee called the UN Special Committee 705 00:38:26,250 --> 00:38:30,049 S8: on Palestine to hold hearings in the land, to investigate 706 00:38:30,050 --> 00:38:33,090 S8: and to recommend a course of action. And it comes 707 00:38:33,090 --> 00:38:36,530 S8: back with two reports, a majority and a minority opinion. 708 00:38:36,690 --> 00:38:39,250 S8: And the majority opinion says that there are now two 709 00:38:39,250 --> 00:38:43,450 S8: peoples in the land with irreconcilable differences, with totally different 710 00:38:43,450 --> 00:38:46,650 S8: conceptions of history in the future. And the only workable 711 00:38:46,650 --> 00:38:49,010 S8: solution is to partition the land and create two states 712 00:38:49,010 --> 00:38:53,290 S8: for two peoples. The Jews again say yes, and the 713 00:38:53,290 --> 00:38:56,969 S8: Arabs predictably say no. And then one Arab nation after 714 00:38:56,969 --> 00:38:59,890 S8: the next takes the podium of the General Assembly and 715 00:38:59,890 --> 00:39:03,370 S8: vows to wage war to prevent the implementation of the 716 00:39:03,370 --> 00:39:07,799 S8: plan of partition of the General Assembly. Israel then declares 717 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,200 S8: independence on the 14th of May, 1948, pursuant to that 718 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,279 S8: partition plan. And then the Arab states invade, and the 719 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,279 S8: Middle East is in its first major war, and there 720 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:23,200 S8: would be subsequent wars in 67 and 73. So really, 721 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,960 S8: I think that if you look at where the UN 722 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,880 S8: is now and even going back a little bit in 1975, 723 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,640 S8: that same body, which in 1948 had voted in favor 724 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,759 S8: of partition in favor of Zionism and the creation of 725 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,160 S8: a Jewish national home in 1975, that same body declared 726 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,600 S8: that Zionism was now a form of racism. So it 727 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,279 S8: really shows you how August bodies, how prestigious institutions like 728 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,600 S8: the United Nations can be totally subverted, corroded and corrupted 729 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,080 S8: and really manipulated by non-democratic nations that use the democratic 730 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,040 S8: institutions of the UN to drive their nefarious agenda. And 731 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,640 S8: when we look at so much of what comes out 732 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,510 S8: of the UN now, particularly the Human Rights Council, Unesco, 733 00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:11,150 S8: these agencies. You spoke earlier about historical revisionism. These agencies 734 00:40:11,150 --> 00:40:15,870 S8: practiced that exact form, um, of revisionism. They pass declaration 735 00:40:15,870 --> 00:40:20,710 S8: after declaration, resolution after resolution that Hebron is not a 736 00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:23,670 S8: Jewish city, that it's not linked to the Jewish people, 737 00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:27,230 S8: that Jerusalem and the Western Wall, the last remaining wall 738 00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:31,270 S8: of the temple, um, is an Islamic holy site, and 739 00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:34,190 S8: they can attempt to pervert and distort history all they like. 740 00:40:34,469 --> 00:40:37,350 S8: But we people of faith, we people who value the 741 00:40:37,350 --> 00:40:41,710 S8: truth in history, um, will understand what's true and what's not. 742 00:40:41,710 --> 00:40:43,950 S8: And I hope that this book will really give people 743 00:40:43,950 --> 00:40:46,750 S8: a sense of the history, a sense of the truth, 744 00:40:46,989 --> 00:40:50,910 S8: and a sense also of the need to remain steadfast 745 00:40:50,910 --> 00:40:51,590 S8: and true. 746 00:40:52,230 --> 00:40:54,910 S1: Yes, I could not agree more. And I thank you 747 00:40:54,910 --> 00:40:59,029 S1: for a yeoman's work on this, Alex, because such an 748 00:40:59,030 --> 00:41:01,670 S1: important book for such an important time. You talked about 749 00:41:01,670 --> 00:41:04,530 S1: the UN. I've been in that chamber when they've introduced 750 00:41:04,530 --> 00:41:07,609 S1: resolutions against Israel. It's stunning. And by the way, I 751 00:41:07,610 --> 00:41:10,129 S1: think the UN, for many nations is now lost any 752 00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:12,969 S1: semblance of credibility. But harkening back to this idea of 753 00:41:13,010 --> 00:41:16,250 S1: a so-called two state solution, which has been debated forever 754 00:41:16,250 --> 00:41:19,250 S1: and ever and ever. There is a two state solution. 755 00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:22,850 S1: It's called Jordan. 85% of the Palestinians who live in 756 00:41:22,890 --> 00:41:25,489 S1: that part of the world live in Jordan. It's the 15% 757 00:41:25,530 --> 00:41:28,490 S1: Hashemite minority. So if you want a neighboring state, you've 758 00:41:28,489 --> 00:41:30,689 S1: got it in Jordan. But this goes back to my 759 00:41:30,690 --> 00:41:34,130 S1: question about anti-Semitism. It isn't a matter of peace. Yasser 760 00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:37,850 S1: Arafat was offered everything he ever wanted practically and turned 761 00:41:37,850 --> 00:41:39,850 S1: it down. And the thanks he got as he turned 762 00:41:39,850 --> 00:41:42,250 S1: around and he shot Qassam missiles over into the southern 763 00:41:42,250 --> 00:41:45,169 S1: part of Israel. So this is not about looking for 764 00:41:45,170 --> 00:41:48,170 S1: a peaceful solution. The root of this, Alex, it seems 765 00:41:48,170 --> 00:41:54,009 S1: to me undeniably, despite archaeological substantiation, historical substantiation, the past 766 00:41:54,010 --> 00:41:57,610 S1: movement and votes of governments by different government states is 767 00:41:57,810 --> 00:42:01,690 S1: an absolute, unabated hatred toward the Jews that they must 768 00:42:01,690 --> 00:42:04,040 S1: not be allowed to have their own home state, and 769 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:05,799 S1: I don't think that's too broad a statement, and I 770 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,560 S1: don't think it's an overreach. Do you agree? 771 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,960 S8: Look, I do. And again, when you look at the 772 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,160 S8: history of anti-Zionism, when you look at how opposition to 773 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,520 S8: the creation of a Jewish state coalesced and how it 774 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,719 S8: was driven, the rhetoric that came from its leaders, particularly 775 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:25,080 S8: Al Husseini, who was the the real spiritual leader and 776 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,759 S8: the political leader of opposition to Zionism and remains a 777 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,960 S8: revered figure in Palestinian society. He was overtly anti-Semitic, unashamedly 778 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,239 S8: anti-Semitic to the extent that he called for the extermination 779 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,080 S8: of the Jewish people worldwide and aided the Nazis in 780 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,040 S8: that cause. He traveled to Bosnia to help recruit Muslims 781 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,960 S8: to the Waffen SS that carried out atrocities against the 782 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:51,200 S8: Jewish people and others throughout Europe. So certainly the roots 783 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,400 S8: of anti-Zionism as we see it today are in anti-Semitism. 784 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,680 S8: And when we look at, for example, modern hard leftist anti-Zionism, 785 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,830 S8: that really comes from the Soviet Union, which in the 786 00:43:01,830 --> 00:43:05,430 S8: 1950s in particular, after first welcoming the creation of the 787 00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:09,030 S8: State of Israel, turned on Israel in a very significant 788 00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:11,670 S8: way when it realized that it was more Western and 789 00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:15,110 S8: democratic and liberal in its orientation and closer in alignment 790 00:43:15,110 --> 00:43:19,670 S8: to the United States and the Soviet Union, really repackaged 791 00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:25,910 S8: what was classic anti-Semitism into modern anti-Zionism, to give anti-Semitism 792 00:43:26,110 --> 00:43:28,190 S8: a seeming legitimacy, to make it look like it's a 793 00:43:28,190 --> 00:43:31,790 S8: political position rather than a racial hatred. And we see 794 00:43:31,790 --> 00:43:34,629 S8: the legacy of that to this day. So certainly when 795 00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:37,629 S8: we look at anti-Zionism and the fact that at its 796 00:43:37,630 --> 00:43:40,830 S8: core is a denial of Jewish national and human rights, 797 00:43:40,830 --> 00:43:43,350 S8: when we look at the language and the rhetoric that 798 00:43:43,350 --> 00:43:47,310 S8: comes from the anti-Zionist movement today, which really just shifts 799 00:43:47,350 --> 00:43:51,430 S8: classic anti-Jewish prejudice from the Jewish collective, from the Jewish people, 800 00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:54,669 S8: from the Jewish faith to the Jewish state. We see 801 00:43:54,670 --> 00:43:57,710 S8: something distinctly sinister about anti-Zionism. 802 00:43:58,590 --> 00:44:01,980 S1: Wow, Alex, that went far too quickly. And I just 803 00:44:01,980 --> 00:44:04,739 S1: want you to know you have a standing invitation anytime. 804 00:44:04,739 --> 00:44:07,060 S1: In fact, I'll call you in Australia if you're willing 805 00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:08,739 S1: to get up early and have you come on to. 806 00:44:08,780 --> 00:44:12,060 S1: We can continue this conversation. The book is a must, 807 00:44:12,060 --> 00:44:15,100 S1: particularly for those of us who believe that the nation 808 00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:18,460 S1: of Israel is absolutely a mandate, that the Jewish people 809 00:44:18,460 --> 00:44:21,340 S1: have the right to self-governance, that they are allowed to 810 00:44:21,340 --> 00:44:23,980 S1: have their own state, and it is called the nation 811 00:44:23,980 --> 00:44:26,780 S1: of Israel. So you continue to pray for that nation, 812 00:44:26,860 --> 00:44:29,340 S1: pray for the leaders. We're supposed to pray for those 813 00:44:29,340 --> 00:44:31,500 S1: in authority. The Bible tells us so. Pray for real 814 00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:34,100 S1: wisdom as the hedge of protection is put around the 815 00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:36,379 S1: nation of Israel. Alex, I thank you again the book 816 00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:39,580 S1: Zionism The Concise History. You can learn more by going 817 00:44:39,620 --> 00:44:43,060 S1: to in the market with Janet Dot. Click on that 818 00:44:43,060 --> 00:44:45,380 S1: red box takes you to the info page and there's 819 00:44:45,380 --> 00:44:47,420 S1: the book. Continue to pray for Israel won't you? We'll 820 00:44:47,420 --> 00:44:48,420 S1: see you next time, friends.