1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,000 S1: How do you view your work? Is it a necessary 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,039 S1: thing you do to pay the bills? Is it something 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,040 S1: you do to kind of get out of the way 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,640 S1: and move on with your life, so you can do 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,520 S1: what you really want to do? The thing that gives 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,960 S1: you purpose and meaning in your life, that's what you 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,200 S1: want to do. And your work is just, yeah, it's 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,120 S1: a necessary evil. If you feel like work is something 9 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:27,960 S1: you have to do. I want you to hear Pastor 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,080 S1: Johnny today. He believes we need a course correction in 11 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,599 S1: the culture and in the church too, about the value 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,680 S1: of work, and that it is not something we have 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,319 S1: to do. It's a privilege. It's something we get to 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,080 S1: do that can honor God no matter what that work is. 15 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,880 S1: Pastor Johnny Artavanis is straight ahead on the program from 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,279 S1: the Heart to the Heart for the heart online at 17 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,400 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Thanking our team. Ryan McConaughey doing all 18 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,880 S1: things technical. Chris is our producer. Lisa is helping out tall. 19 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,200 S1: Josh will be answering your calls today. I really want 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,760 S1: to hear from you about this work topic. I think 21 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,280 S1: this is going to be a good conversation. Before we 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,639 S1: get to that, there are two days left, two days 23 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,440 S1: left in October, and our offer of a great thank 24 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,479 S1: you for anyone who supports this program. It's from Nancy 25 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,840 S1: DeMoss Wolgemuth it's about Christmas. It's about celebrating the true 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,280 S1: meaning of the holiday, which is the incarnation. The fact 27 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,280 S1: that God did for us what we could not do 28 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,560 S1: for ourselves. Nancy wants us to marvel at the manger, 29 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,720 S1: to ponder the Prince of Peace, to savor the truth. 30 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,120 S1: Truth that this is the Messiah, the Savior of the world, 31 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,480 S1: the Lamb of God, who came to rob your sin 32 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,640 S1: and give you his righteousness. If that doesn't get you 33 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,040 S1: fired up, I don't know what will. This is a 34 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:50,560 S1: little book 31 day advent devotional. It's titled Consider Jesus. 35 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,120 S1: And there are two. Have I said it already? There 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,920 S1: are two days left. I have a copy for you. 37 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,630 S1: I've got one all ready to send to you, but 38 00:01:59,630 --> 00:02:02,750 S1: you got to call and support us with a gift 39 00:02:02,750 --> 00:02:06,710 S1: of any size. Eight, six, six, 95. Faber is the number. 40 00:02:06,710 --> 00:02:11,070 S1: Or you can click through at Chris Fabry live.org. Your 41 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:15,350 S1: gift keeps the gospel conversations coming. The challenges, like the 42 00:02:15,350 --> 00:02:18,669 S1: one we're going to consider today about work and the 43 00:02:18,669 --> 00:02:22,030 S1: encouragement from the radio backyard fence. So if you value 44 00:02:22,030 --> 00:02:24,670 S1: that and you'd like to get this book, would love 45 00:02:24,669 --> 00:02:31,230 S1: to send it to you. (866) 953-2279. Or go to Chris 46 00:02:31,270 --> 00:02:35,070 S1: Fabry live.org. See, even in the in the phone number, 47 00:02:35,070 --> 00:02:37,870 S1: there are two twos. There's two days left and there 48 00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:41,190 S1: are two twos and two, two, seven, nine. Yes, it 49 00:02:41,190 --> 00:02:44,470 S1: all goes together. Thank you for your support of the 50 00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:48,710 S1: back fence. He is the lead pastor of Stonebridge Bible 51 00:02:48,710 --> 00:02:53,270 S1: Church in Franklin, Tennessee. Founder and president of Dial in Ministries, 52 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:57,750 S1: a ministry that provides biblical resourcing for the next generation 53 00:02:57,790 --> 00:03:02,070 S1: dynamic speaker and pastor. We've talked with him here about 54 00:03:02,070 --> 00:03:05,550 S1: his book Consider the Lilies Finding Perfect Peace in the 55 00:03:05,550 --> 00:03:09,230 S1: Character of God. He's married to Katie. They have four children. 56 00:03:09,230 --> 00:03:13,190 S1: His name is Johnny Ardavanis. You don't have to spell 57 00:03:13,190 --> 00:03:15,910 S1: that in order to listen to the program. His new 58 00:03:15,910 --> 00:03:20,389 S1: book is This is Really Good. Get to work seeing 59 00:03:20,389 --> 00:03:26,230 S1: your daily grind as God's good gift. Pastor Johnny, welcome 60 00:03:26,230 --> 00:03:27,990 S1: back to the program. How you doing today? 61 00:03:28,790 --> 00:03:31,110 S2: Good. Thanks, Chris, for having me on. So grateful to 62 00:03:31,110 --> 00:03:31,710 S2: be here. 63 00:03:32,590 --> 00:03:35,830 S1: You dedicated this to your dad. Tell me about your dad, 64 00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:38,870 S1: how he influenced you, and what the shoe size of 65 00:03:38,870 --> 00:03:41,030 S1: Shaquille O'Neal has to do with it. 66 00:03:42,070 --> 00:03:44,310 S2: Well, that's a good way to put it. When I 67 00:03:44,310 --> 00:03:47,070 S2: was growing up, I had I think my dad had 68 00:03:47,070 --> 00:03:49,110 S2: always ingrained in us, you know, that we were to 69 00:03:49,110 --> 00:03:51,230 S2: work hard. And, you know, the story that I tell 70 00:03:51,270 --> 00:03:53,710 S2: in the book that pertains to Shaquille O'Neal is that 71 00:03:53,710 --> 00:03:57,660 S2: on my 16th birthday, My dad woke me up and 72 00:03:58,140 --> 00:04:00,660 S2: told me to, you know, get dressed, get your suit on. 73 00:04:01,140 --> 00:04:03,780 S2: And I was like, where is he going to take me? 74 00:04:03,820 --> 00:04:05,780 S2: He did take me on my 10th birthday to meet 75 00:04:05,780 --> 00:04:08,420 S2: Shaquille O'Neal, and he took me into the locker room. 76 00:04:08,420 --> 00:04:11,740 S2: I met all these famous athletes. That was my 10th birthday. 77 00:04:11,740 --> 00:04:13,780 S2: So for my 16th birthday, when my dad woke me 78 00:04:13,780 --> 00:04:15,860 S2: up at six in the morning and said, get your 79 00:04:15,860 --> 00:04:18,540 S2: suit on. Happy birthday. I was man, I was going, wait, 80 00:04:18,540 --> 00:04:20,860 S2: where's he gonna take me? But he ended up taking 81 00:04:20,860 --> 00:04:23,060 S2: me about ten miles away from my house, dropping me 82 00:04:23,060 --> 00:04:25,419 S2: off on the side of the road, rolling the window 83 00:04:25,420 --> 00:04:27,740 S2: down as he dropped me off, handed me a Gatorade 84 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:31,420 S2: and a tiger's milk bar and said, men work. Go 85 00:04:31,420 --> 00:04:34,620 S2: find a job. Don't come home till you have one. 86 00:04:35,140 --> 00:04:38,020 S2: And that was the chipper introduction to my 16th birthday. 87 00:04:38,220 --> 00:04:40,779 S2: And my dad's the best. He's not like a. He's 88 00:04:40,779 --> 00:04:42,900 S2: not a hard man at all, but he was trying 89 00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:46,140 S2: to ingrain in me the biblical priority of work. And 90 00:04:46,140 --> 00:04:49,660 S2: I remember at 16 asking the question, why do I 91 00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:51,580 S2: got to work? You know, why do I have to 92 00:04:51,580 --> 00:04:54,540 S2: do this? And it wasn't until maybe later on that 93 00:04:54,540 --> 00:04:57,380 S2: I realized biblically, work is not a got to. It's 94 00:04:57,420 --> 00:04:59,859 S2: a get to. We get to work. And as a 95 00:04:59,860 --> 00:05:01,540 S2: way that we mirror and mimic the God that made 96 00:05:01,540 --> 00:05:03,779 S2: us in his image. And that's the title of the book, 97 00:05:03,820 --> 00:05:06,099 S2: get to work and seeing your daily grind is a 98 00:05:06,140 --> 00:05:08,420 S2: gift from God. And that's one of the things that 99 00:05:08,420 --> 00:05:10,539 S2: my dad wanted to ingrain in all of his children. 100 00:05:10,580 --> 00:05:13,700 S2: I'm the third of seven, but just a biblical work 101 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:16,219 S2: ethic and what it means to be made in the 102 00:05:16,220 --> 00:05:17,100 S2: image of God. 103 00:05:17,540 --> 00:05:19,659 S1: And he lived that out in front of you, too. 104 00:05:19,700 --> 00:05:24,420 S1: I mean, you saw him value work in his own life, right? 105 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:28,419 S2: Correct. Yeah. He's just a hard worker. And I think 106 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:31,260 S2: one of the things he gave me different lessons growing up, like, 107 00:05:31,260 --> 00:05:33,380 S2: never let the grass grow under your feet. What he 108 00:05:33,380 --> 00:05:35,980 S2: meant by that is just to take initiative, be assertive, 109 00:05:36,140 --> 00:05:38,380 S2: be productive. You know, I remember my dad reading to 110 00:05:38,380 --> 00:05:41,100 S2: us the chapters in Proverbs, you know, going to the ant, 111 00:05:41,140 --> 00:05:43,020 S2: you know, go to the ant, he sluggard. And he 112 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:44,620 S2: wasn't being mean to me. He was just saying, hey, 113 00:05:44,620 --> 00:05:47,580 S2: it's so important that the biblical the biblical prescription for 114 00:05:47,580 --> 00:05:49,540 S2: both a young man and a young woman or people 115 00:05:49,540 --> 00:05:53,610 S2: of all ages, is to model who God is and 116 00:05:53,610 --> 00:05:57,570 S2: his activity. We do worship a God who rested as well. 117 00:05:58,170 --> 00:05:59,890 S2: And so it's important. You know, I don't feel like 118 00:05:59,890 --> 00:06:02,850 S2: my dad idolized work at all. But, you know, it's 119 00:06:02,890 --> 00:06:05,450 S2: Kent Hughes that says 80 to 100,000 hours of your 120 00:06:05,450 --> 00:06:08,169 S2: life are spent working. And so to not think biblically 121 00:06:08,170 --> 00:06:10,490 S2: about those hours inevitably means that we're going to suffer 122 00:06:10,490 --> 00:06:14,610 S2: some sort of spiritual injury because it's impossible to live 123 00:06:14,610 --> 00:06:16,490 S2: our life for the glory of God if we don't 124 00:06:16,490 --> 00:06:19,570 S2: know how to glorify God in our work. And when 125 00:06:19,570 --> 00:06:23,490 S2: I say that the Bible really demolishes all notions of 126 00:06:23,490 --> 00:06:26,130 S2: a secular sacred divide. So it could be what if. 127 00:06:26,130 --> 00:06:29,370 S2: That's why Paul says, whatever you're doing in Colossians 323, 128 00:06:29,529 --> 00:06:30,970 S2: you're to do it for the glory of God. And 129 00:06:30,970 --> 00:06:33,969 S2: that means whether you're a busboy, a mother, a nurse, 130 00:06:34,010 --> 00:06:37,090 S2: an electrician, a CPA, a lawyer, you're to do it 131 00:06:37,089 --> 00:06:39,250 S2: for the glory of God. And to do that, you 132 00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:42,730 S2: have to understand what the Scripture says about the subject 133 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:45,849 S2: that we will spend most of our lives actually doing. 134 00:06:46,130 --> 00:06:48,850 S1: Yeah. Did you actually get a job that day when 135 00:06:48,850 --> 00:06:49,770 S1: you were 16? 136 00:06:50,890 --> 00:06:53,690 S2: That's a good question. I, I put in about 120 137 00:06:53,730 --> 00:06:57,409 S2: applications and I got rejected by every single one of them. 138 00:06:57,410 --> 00:07:00,490 S2: But the following day, I got a job offer from 139 00:07:00,490 --> 00:07:03,849 S2: the restaurant that my older brother and older sister were 140 00:07:03,850 --> 00:07:06,330 S2: already working at, and I didn't even apply for that one. 141 00:07:06,330 --> 00:07:09,050 S2: But I think they hired me just based on the 142 00:07:09,089 --> 00:07:13,210 S2: work ethic of my older siblings. And, um, I started 143 00:07:13,210 --> 00:07:16,530 S2: working there shortly after, but it was a, it was a, 144 00:07:16,570 --> 00:07:18,690 S2: you know, I was thankful for the lesson just in 145 00:07:18,690 --> 00:07:23,330 S2: retrospect that my dad was ingrained in me and, um, so, 146 00:07:23,370 --> 00:07:25,210 S2: so glad he taught me how to work when, when 147 00:07:25,210 --> 00:07:27,610 S2: I was young. Because the older you get, the harder 148 00:07:27,610 --> 00:07:31,210 S2: it is to, you know, instill and implement those godly, 149 00:07:31,530 --> 00:07:34,210 S2: you know, or biblical patterns into your life. 150 00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:37,850 S1: I think you have put in this book, you put 151 00:07:37,850 --> 00:07:40,290 S1: your finger on the nerve. And even with what you've 152 00:07:40,290 --> 00:07:44,890 S1: just said on what I've had a problem with all 153 00:07:44,890 --> 00:07:47,330 S1: my life when I've heard it, and I agree with 154 00:07:47,330 --> 00:07:51,530 S1: it on one level and another level, I, push back 155 00:07:51,530 --> 00:07:55,410 S1: on it and that is the saying. Only one life 156 00:07:55,490 --> 00:07:59,850 S1: will soon be past. Only what's done for Christ will last. 157 00:08:00,810 --> 00:08:04,050 S1: And I think if you if you look at it 158 00:08:04,050 --> 00:08:06,530 S1: with the get to work. You know I get to work. 159 00:08:06,570 --> 00:08:08,810 S1: I don't have to work. I get to work. My 160 00:08:08,810 --> 00:08:12,369 S1: work matters. My work is something that I can do 161 00:08:12,370 --> 00:08:16,050 S1: for Christ. But the way that I have interpreted that 162 00:08:16,050 --> 00:08:21,170 S1: is to more be the sacred secular dichotomy, which is, well, 163 00:08:21,170 --> 00:08:23,570 S1: if you're not out there winning souls, if you're not, 164 00:08:23,610 --> 00:08:26,690 S1: if you're working and you're not evangelizing somebody, then it's 165 00:08:26,690 --> 00:08:30,850 S1: not worth anything. And that's what I, I push back 166 00:08:30,890 --> 00:08:33,090 S1: against in my heart. What do you think? 167 00:08:34,330 --> 00:08:36,410 S2: Yeah. You know, I like the quote, you know, by 168 00:08:36,450 --> 00:08:41,050 S2: CT Studd. And it's probably been made well known by C.S. Lewis, 169 00:08:41,050 --> 00:08:43,449 S2: who repeated that line that you just mentioned. Only one 170 00:08:43,450 --> 00:08:45,410 S2: life will soon be past. Only what's done for Christ 171 00:08:45,450 --> 00:08:48,800 S2: will last. And I grew up, Chris. Yeah. Interpreting that 172 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,840 S2: as if I didn't go into vocational ministry, that my 173 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,520 S2: life was worthless. And the only way that, you know, 174 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:54,920 S2: I would honor the Lord in my work is if 175 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,679 S2: I took whatever money was left over after I paid 176 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,960 S2: the bills and gave that away. And one of the 177 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:00,960 S2: arguments that I make in the in the book is 178 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,040 S2: just that God is honored by the work itself. What 179 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,960 S2: I mean by that is when God puts Adam in 180 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,040 S2: the garden in Genesis two, and he puts him there 181 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,440 S2: to work it. It says in Genesis 215 that word 182 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,000 S2: for work is the Hebrew word avod. It means to work. 183 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,080 S2: It means to serve. It means to cultivate, but it 184 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,800 S2: also means to worship. And so one of the things 185 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:23,880 S2: that God ingrains in his people and helps us to 186 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,080 S2: understand from page two of the scripture, is that work 187 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,679 S2: and worship are not separate, you know, separate categories. They 188 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,240 S2: are often conjoined twins. When Adam was tilling the ground 189 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,040 S2: and cultivating the ground, he was worshiping not because he 190 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,240 S2: was the lead member of a praise band, but because 191 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,199 S2: he was doing what God does. And I think even 192 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,239 S2: going back to that idea of working, when God says, 193 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,440 S2: let us make man in our own image in Genesis 126. 194 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,760 S2: You know, I think that's a familiar idea. We're made 195 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,040 S2: in the image of God, the imago day. But what 196 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,520 S2: does that even mean? And at that point, when God says, 197 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,400 S2: let us make man in his own in our own image, 198 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,000 S2: what is that? What do we know about God? Well, 199 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,520 S2: at that point, what we know about God is that 200 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,800 S2: he's a worker. He's a creator. He's an artist. Even 201 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,720 S2: that idea in Genesis 116, when it says that in 202 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,760 S2: the NKJV translation, it says that God separated the firmament. 203 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,840 S2: And that's the same word used in job to describe 204 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,000 S2: a blacksmith in his shop. And so the opening scene 205 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,000 S2: of Scripture describes and presents a God who is an artist, 206 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,880 S2: a worker, a blacksmith, smelting and stamping the earth into place. 207 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,440 S2: He's a zoologist. He's an architect. He's a builder. And 208 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,920 S2: then he says, let us make man in our own image. 209 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,000 S2: What does that mean? God's invisible. We can't see God. 210 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,920 S2: He's got a spirit. Well, it means we do what 211 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,480 S2: God does. And that's why it says, let us make 212 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,920 S2: man in our own image. And then here's the first 213 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,310 S2: job description for humanity. Let them rule to do what 214 00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:50,670 S2: God does. And so it's so important that our understanding 215 00:10:50,670 --> 00:10:54,469 S2: of work is free fall, right? People say it's just 216 00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:55,709 S2: a part of the curse, but it's not a part 217 00:10:55,710 --> 00:10:58,510 S2: of the curse. It's a pre-fall institution. And going back 218 00:10:58,510 --> 00:11:01,150 S2: to your question about the C.T. Studd quote, it's a 219 00:11:01,150 --> 00:11:04,189 S2: way that we worship God not just when we're sharing Christ, 220 00:11:04,190 --> 00:11:07,670 S2: but in the work itself is worship to God. And 221 00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:09,430 S2: I think the last thing and I don't want to 222 00:11:09,429 --> 00:11:12,190 S2: filibuster here, Chris, even when we talk about, you know, 223 00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:14,230 S2: Jesus says that the greatest commandment is to love the 224 00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:16,110 S2: Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. 225 00:11:16,110 --> 00:11:19,709 S2: And the second is like it, the second greatest commandment 226 00:11:19,710 --> 00:11:21,990 S2: is to love your neighbor as yourself. What does that 227 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:24,230 S2: even mean? To love your neighbor? Like, how does a 228 00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:28,189 S2: dentist love their neighbor? Well, the answer from Scripture and 229 00:11:28,190 --> 00:11:30,830 S2: Dorothy Sayers and other great writers have talked about this 230 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:34,510 S2: is it means that you do an excellent job. So, 231 00:11:34,870 --> 00:11:37,390 S2: you know, one one pastor said, how does a pilot 232 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:40,310 S2: love their neighbor? By landing the plane. How does a 233 00:11:40,309 --> 00:11:43,949 S2: builder love their neighbor? By building great houses. And this 234 00:11:43,950 --> 00:11:46,510 S2: is an act of worship, and part of that is, 235 00:11:46,870 --> 00:11:50,270 S2: is oriented in your perspective of work, meaning it's only 236 00:11:50,270 --> 00:11:52,630 S2: worship if you do it with God's glory and the 237 00:11:52,630 --> 00:11:56,630 S2: other person, you know your neighbor's well-being in mind. But 238 00:11:56,670 --> 00:11:59,750 S2: that idea of the secular sacred divide is nowhere found 239 00:11:59,750 --> 00:12:03,030 S2: in Scripture. And it was William Tyndale who said, there 240 00:12:03,070 --> 00:12:06,710 S2: is a difference between preaching a sermon and washing the dishes, 241 00:12:06,950 --> 00:12:09,910 S2: but to God, there's no difference at all in regards 242 00:12:09,910 --> 00:12:12,990 S2: to the heart behind it and its capacity to bring 243 00:12:12,990 --> 00:12:13,630 S2: him glory. 244 00:12:14,030 --> 00:12:17,510 S1: Bingo. Oh, this is going to set somebody free today. 245 00:12:17,510 --> 00:12:20,270 S1: Just the conversation we're having at the back fence, and 246 00:12:20,270 --> 00:12:22,990 S1: the book will do the same. Get to work. You 247 00:12:22,990 --> 00:12:25,510 S1: don't have to work. You get to work. Seeing your 248 00:12:25,510 --> 00:12:29,670 S1: daily grind is God's good gift. Johnny Artavanis is with 249 00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:37,270 S1: us today. Pastor, author, here's our number (877) 548-3675 more straight 250 00:12:37,270 --> 00:12:48,660 S1: ahead on Moody Radio. As I was going through this 251 00:12:48,660 --> 00:12:52,900 S1: book by Gianni Ardavanis today, I had all these questions 252 00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:56,380 S1: and all these thoughts about my own life, about identity. 253 00:12:56,420 --> 00:12:58,660 S1: You know, the idol that we can make out of work. 254 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:01,900 S1: My identity is wrapped up in what I do or not. 255 00:13:02,660 --> 00:13:04,579 S1: The book, as I said, is going to set some 256 00:13:04,580 --> 00:13:08,380 S1: people free. Get to work seeing your daily grind as 257 00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:11,380 S1: God's good gift. And I hear it from people who 258 00:13:11,380 --> 00:13:14,020 S1: will call and say, you know, I really want to 259 00:13:14,020 --> 00:13:15,780 S1: be a pastor. I really want to be a full 260 00:13:15,820 --> 00:13:19,220 S1: time musician, or I want to be an author, but 261 00:13:19,220 --> 00:13:21,700 S1: I'm stuck over here. I think of William Faulkner, who 262 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:25,579 S1: worked at the post office down there in Mississippi for 263 00:13:25,580 --> 00:13:28,500 S1: a long time, and he wrote on the side. But 264 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:32,860 S1: the thing that struck me today, Johnny, is today, Thursday 265 00:13:32,860 --> 00:13:38,460 S1: is our trash day at where I live. And so 266 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:43,140 S1: I went down a little before noon and I start 267 00:13:43,179 --> 00:13:45,580 S1: taking the rest. You know the trash that had come 268 00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:49,660 S1: that we had made from last night until today. And 269 00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:52,660 S1: I just said, it's just such a good feeling to 270 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,980 S1: start over again. And so I got these two trash bags. 271 00:13:56,020 --> 00:13:57,620 S1: I took them out to the road and I put 272 00:13:57,620 --> 00:14:01,300 S1: them in the bins. And then I heard the truck coming. 273 00:14:01,820 --> 00:14:04,740 S1: And I thought about your book and I thought, I 274 00:14:04,780 --> 00:14:08,540 S1: wonder if the men or women who are driving that truck. 275 00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:09,980 S1: And now it used to be, you know, there are 276 00:14:09,980 --> 00:14:13,140 S1: a couple of guys at least on each truck now 277 00:14:13,140 --> 00:14:16,100 S1: there's only one, you know, the driver who brings the 278 00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:18,700 S1: arm down. But I wonder if the driver of that 279 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:23,020 S1: trash truck sees his or her work as just a 280 00:14:23,020 --> 00:14:26,900 S1: grind is just a, just a way to, you know, 281 00:14:26,980 --> 00:14:29,300 S1: to pay the bills and then to get on, get 282 00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:31,500 S1: off and get cleaned up, you know, from all the 283 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:34,900 S1: trash they've picked up or, or do they see it 284 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:37,660 S1: as a way that there's this guy down there, that's 285 00:14:37,660 --> 00:14:40,930 S1: this guy. And when he puts his trash out when 286 00:14:40,930 --> 00:14:44,010 S1: he sees that go. There's such a good feeling. There's 287 00:14:44,010 --> 00:14:48,210 S1: a completion, there's a starting over that I wouldn't get 288 00:14:48,210 --> 00:14:51,490 S1: that if it hadn't been for those people driving those trucks. 289 00:14:53,690 --> 00:14:56,450 S2: No. It's true. I, uh, you know, I wonder sometimes 290 00:14:56,450 --> 00:14:59,690 S2: what the world thinks about work as well. And obviously 291 00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:02,290 S2: as you engage with people in conversation, you get different 292 00:15:02,290 --> 00:15:06,210 S2: ideas from different people. You know, going back thousands of years, 293 00:15:06,210 --> 00:15:10,010 S2: there's always been some sort of an opinion, even religiously, 294 00:15:10,010 --> 00:15:12,650 S2: about what or why we work. You know, it was 295 00:15:13,010 --> 00:15:16,770 S2: the Babylonian god Marduk that said that work was a 296 00:15:16,770 --> 00:15:19,130 S2: punishment from the gods. You know, he says that he 297 00:15:19,130 --> 00:15:22,330 S2: will make man like a savage. And that work was 298 00:15:22,330 --> 00:15:24,730 S2: a punishment. It was a divine punishment. And so I 299 00:15:24,730 --> 00:15:27,090 S2: think a lot of people view it as a necessary evil. 300 00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:29,090 S2: You know, gotta go to work, gotta pay the bills. 301 00:15:29,570 --> 00:15:31,410 S2: And then there are other people that maybe swing to 302 00:15:31,410 --> 00:15:35,370 S2: the other side of the spectrum and make it their identity. 303 00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:37,290 S2: You know, that's all that we are. That's all that we, 304 00:15:37,330 --> 00:15:41,170 S2: you know, is, is what I accomplish, and that's nothing new. 305 00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:43,610 S2: You know, Solomon says that nothing new is under the sun. 306 00:15:44,130 --> 00:15:47,330 S2: And eight chapters after the fall in Genesis three, by 307 00:15:47,330 --> 00:15:50,170 S2: the time we arrive at Genesis 11, you see people 308 00:15:50,170 --> 00:15:53,770 S2: making work their very identity in Genesis 11, when they're 309 00:15:53,770 --> 00:15:55,570 S2: building the Tower of Babel, they say, let us build 310 00:15:55,570 --> 00:15:57,530 S2: a city with a tower that reaches the heavens. And 311 00:15:57,530 --> 00:16:00,130 S2: then here's the reason they want to do so, so 312 00:16:00,130 --> 00:16:03,690 S2: that we might make a name for ourselves. Uh, doing 313 00:16:03,690 --> 00:16:07,610 S2: something grand is not sinful. God. God had told mankind 314 00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:10,370 S2: to subdue the earth, but there was this motive that 315 00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:12,490 S2: we would make a name for ourself. They don't want 316 00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:14,290 S2: to glorify God. They want to glorify the man in 317 00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:16,930 S2: the mirror. And so whether or not, you know, you're 318 00:16:16,930 --> 00:16:19,650 S2: on one ditch or another as it pertains to biblical work, 319 00:16:20,090 --> 00:16:23,690 S2: the Bible is so helpful because there's so much instruction 320 00:16:23,690 --> 00:16:26,530 S2: that is written to people after the fall. Like meaning 321 00:16:26,530 --> 00:16:28,930 S2: like almost every verse we have in Scripture is after, 322 00:16:28,970 --> 00:16:31,330 S2: you know, the tragic events that happened on page three. 323 00:16:31,610 --> 00:16:33,610 S2: And so it really does help us to think through 324 00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:36,570 S2: it because, you know, going back to my dad, Chris, 325 00:16:36,610 --> 00:16:39,650 S2: my dad used to tell me everything is attitude. Meaning 326 00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:43,450 S2: that you live out of the overflow of your, you know, 327 00:16:43,770 --> 00:16:46,450 S2: your base attitude, how you think about something, what you 328 00:16:46,450 --> 00:16:49,210 S2: think about work. And so as I dive into the 329 00:16:49,210 --> 00:16:52,090 S2: book and you can jump in here, we just begin 330 00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:54,370 S2: to explore the different themes of how Paul and the 331 00:16:54,370 --> 00:16:58,250 S2: scripture itself gives us instruction for how to work, rest, 332 00:16:58,250 --> 00:17:01,730 S2: and steward our time as fallen creatures in a fallen world. 333 00:17:01,770 --> 00:17:05,050 S1: Yes. But go back to the one of your main 334 00:17:05,090 --> 00:17:08,570 S1: audiences that you've spoken to over the last few years. 335 00:17:08,570 --> 00:17:11,530 S1: Is the audience a little younger than me, though? I'm. 336 00:17:11,570 --> 00:17:14,570 S1: I'm right there with you. But you want to talk 337 00:17:14,570 --> 00:17:18,130 S1: to this the next generation that's coming up because a 338 00:17:18,130 --> 00:17:22,410 S1: lot of those younger people have been knocking on your 339 00:17:22,410 --> 00:17:27,609 S1: door talking about the the Sabbath, the rest don't hurry 340 00:17:27,650 --> 00:17:29,850 S1: and that kind of thing. But they don't ask this 341 00:17:29,850 --> 00:17:32,250 S1: question about work. Why is that? 342 00:17:33,570 --> 00:17:35,490 S2: You know, I think there's probably a little bit of 343 00:17:35,530 --> 00:17:39,040 S2: a swing from one pendulum to another. I heard a 344 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,720 S2: quote one time. I forget who it's by, but it's 345 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,920 S2: basically it says that balance is that temporary moment when 346 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,760 S2: someone swings from one pendulum to another. And I think 347 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,040 S2: in maybe response to maybe a culture in previous generations 348 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,600 S2: of workaholism or overworking, the next generation is often I 349 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,800 S2: don't want to make blanket statements, often kind of aligned 350 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,439 S2: with this. I would almost call it obsession with rest 351 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,240 S2: and Sabbath and, and, and, and as we go into 352 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,880 S2: the book, I talk about rest. We do. We are 353 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,760 S2: made in the image of a God who both worked 354 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,080 S2: and rested. But in recent years, I've been approached dozens, 355 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,280 S2: if not hundreds of times, and been asked if I've 356 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,560 S2: read the most recent book on rest, but I've never 357 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,399 S2: been asked if I've read the most recent book on 358 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,080 S2: the God glorifying human dignifying theme of work. And I 359 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,840 S2: think that's concerning. You know, different studies have shown that millennials, 360 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,560 S2: which would be my generation, are the first generation in 361 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,200 S2: American history that don't cite work ethic as a principal 362 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,840 S2: claim of our distinctiveness. In the aftermath of Covid, there 363 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,240 S2: are now a higher percentage of young men who are 364 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,520 S2: not working that are able bodied post-college than ever before. 365 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,119 S2: And so I think those things, it kind of is 366 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,960 S2: reflective of maybe just a posture towards work. And it 367 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,959 S2: is possible that many people find themselves in opposite ditches 368 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:02,600 S2: along the highway of a biblical work ethic, meaning some 369 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,040 S2: people work really hard and spend their life chasing, meeting 370 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,280 S2: after meeting and sale after sale and make work their idol. 371 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,359 S2: And then other people often are described by a level 372 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,160 S2: of passivity. And we work really hard until we read 373 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,320 S2: a book about rest, and we rest really hard until 374 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,760 S2: we read a book about work. And that's why I'm 375 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,920 S2: so thankful for the line by Tozer. A.W. Tozer once said, 376 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,560 S2: it takes nothing less than a whole Bible to make 377 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,879 S2: a whole Christian, meaning that when you extract and extrapolate 378 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,280 S2: one truth at the Bible at the expense of another, 379 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,750 S2: you end up with a lopsided view of God. And 380 00:19:34,790 --> 00:19:37,870 S2: I think even that idea of God being a relaxed 381 00:19:37,869 --> 00:19:41,350 S2: God has been really put to the forefront in recent years. 382 00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:44,070 S2: And I think I understand what people mean when they 383 00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:48,270 S2: kind of present that picture of God. He's he's not 384 00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:52,070 S2: anxious or agitated. He trusted the father as he lived 385 00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:55,230 S2: in his life. And so there is this holy serenity 386 00:19:55,230 --> 00:19:57,669 S2: that described the life of Jesus. But one of the 387 00:19:57,670 --> 00:20:00,070 S2: things that I talk about in reaction to that a 388 00:20:00,070 --> 00:20:02,590 S2: little bit is one of my favorite words throughout the 389 00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:06,230 S2: gospel of Mark is use case. It's used 41 times 390 00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:08,150 S2: in the gospel of Mark, 11 times in the first 391 00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:10,710 S2: chapter to describe the life and ministry of Jesus. And 392 00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:14,510 S2: that word you face means immediately, straight at once. And 393 00:20:14,510 --> 00:20:16,909 S2: it means that Jesus was on a divine mission. He said, 394 00:20:16,910 --> 00:20:18,629 S2: I must do the works of him who sent me 395 00:20:18,670 --> 00:20:21,070 S2: while it is day. And so, so much of our 396 00:20:21,070 --> 00:20:24,790 S2: understanding about work needs to be rooted in the character 397 00:20:24,790 --> 00:20:26,790 S2: of God. And so that's why I go back not 398 00:20:26,790 --> 00:20:29,590 S2: only to Genesis, but in the Gospels, you see, yes, 399 00:20:29,630 --> 00:20:32,270 S2: a Jesus who withdrew from the region to pray. Yes, 400 00:20:32,430 --> 00:20:35,270 S2: a Jesus who prioritize time with the father. But he 401 00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:37,629 S2: says over and over again, my hour has not come. Why? 402 00:20:37,790 --> 00:20:40,870 S2: Because his whole life was lived on mission. He knew 403 00:20:40,910 --> 00:20:43,710 S2: he had one life to live for the glory of God. 404 00:20:43,910 --> 00:20:46,469 S2: And so there was what I would call like a 405 00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:50,709 S2: divine urgency. Not anxious, not the tyranny of the urgent. 406 00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:52,230 S2: But I must do the works of him who sent 407 00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:54,189 S2: me while it is day. And so we need to 408 00:20:54,910 --> 00:20:59,670 S2: harmonize those truths together, right? God's Edenic pace, his rest 409 00:20:59,670 --> 00:21:03,230 S2: and rhythm in the garden, the composure with which Jesus lived, 410 00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:06,870 S2: but also the urgency that, hey, it says that we've 411 00:21:06,869 --> 00:21:09,830 S2: been given one life. Um, going back to the CT 412 00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:12,990 S2: Studd quote, that includes our work. So it doesn't mean 413 00:21:12,990 --> 00:21:15,510 S2: we have to be a missionary, but it does mean, hey, 414 00:21:15,550 --> 00:21:18,710 S2: we need to God has given us assignment. Ephesians 210. 415 00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:22,190 S2: We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, 416 00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:24,590 S2: which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them. 417 00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:28,350 S2: Meaning that whoever is listening to this right now has 418 00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:33,180 S2: been made by God and saved by God for God 419 00:21:33,220 --> 00:21:36,540 S2: for a purpose. And that purpose includes what we do 420 00:21:36,540 --> 00:21:39,980 S2: with our vocation, our vocation. And that could be as 421 00:21:39,980 --> 00:21:41,940 S2: a mother. It could be right now, as a student, 422 00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:45,780 S2: it could be as a finance, you know, a financial advisor. 423 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:49,060 S2: It doesn't need to be your forever job to honor 424 00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:50,899 S2: the Lord with the way that you work and the 425 00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:53,340 S2: here and now. And so there's also no putting this 426 00:21:53,380 --> 00:21:55,580 S2: off on the back burner, meaning like, I don't even 427 00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:57,180 S2: know if I want to be in this job forever 428 00:21:57,180 --> 00:21:59,380 S2: or I won't be a mom of little kids forever. 429 00:21:59,540 --> 00:22:03,020 S2: It's really important that we ingrain these biblical principles into 430 00:22:03,020 --> 00:22:04,900 S2: our heart and ask the Holy Spirit to help us 431 00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:07,859 S2: honor the Lord in our work. Um, you know, as 432 00:22:07,859 --> 00:22:09,460 S2: we as we go through this life. 433 00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:13,140 S1: I don't want to be too hard on the next generation, 434 00:22:13,140 --> 00:22:16,700 S1: your generation or the one coming up behind you. But 435 00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:19,700 S1: what I see, I know what troubles me. And maybe 436 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:22,620 S1: it just troubles me about myself because I, I feel 437 00:22:22,619 --> 00:22:26,179 S1: the same way that there is this search for fame. 438 00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:30,460 S1: There is a search for influence. There's a search for 439 00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:33,379 S1: instant riches. I want to go viral. And if I 440 00:22:33,380 --> 00:22:36,540 S1: get that on YouTube, then I'm going to monetize that 441 00:22:36,540 --> 00:22:39,300 S1: and I can. And then I don't have to work anymore. 442 00:22:39,340 --> 00:22:41,540 S1: You know, then I could then I can have enough 443 00:22:41,540 --> 00:22:43,859 S1: money to do what I really want to do, which is, 444 00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:46,660 S1: you know, whatever you want to do. I think there 445 00:22:46,660 --> 00:22:50,500 S1: is that sense of, I want to make it so 446 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:54,260 S1: that then I can coast or relax and not feel 447 00:22:54,260 --> 00:22:57,060 S1: like I'm striving all the time. What do you think? 448 00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:01,659 S2: I think there's definitely that, you know, as far as 449 00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:06,580 S2: the pursuit of maybe comfortability, I would understand obviously being 450 00:23:06,580 --> 00:23:09,780 S2: strategic and figuring out ways to like maximize your time. 451 00:23:09,820 --> 00:23:12,500 S2: And so I don't think that can be inherently wrong. 452 00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:15,220 S2: But Proverbs does warn a lot against the person that 453 00:23:15,220 --> 00:23:18,700 S2: craves ease. You know, people say that the lazy person 454 00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:21,220 S2: lacks drive. But as you look to God's Word, particularly 455 00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:23,980 S2: in the book of Proverbs, the lazy person doesn't lack drive. 456 00:23:24,020 --> 00:23:28,180 S2: They have an intense drive for comfortability and ease, but 457 00:23:28,260 --> 00:23:30,260 S2: everything good in life is on the other side of hard. 458 00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:32,460 S2: And so I think I do share maybe a level 459 00:23:32,460 --> 00:23:36,139 S2: of concern about, you know, shortcuts. Obviously, there is a 460 00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:38,500 S2: level of, you know, strategy. You could be shrewd, you 461 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:41,540 S2: could use digital media to be shrewd and make a living. 462 00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:43,859 S2: And so I don't think there's anything wrong with that necessarily. 463 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:47,300 S2: I think even going back to this, you know, the 464 00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:49,700 S2: absence of work I've seen recently, you know, Elon Musk 465 00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,500 S2: said that, you know, in the future, you know, AI 466 00:23:52,540 --> 00:23:54,260 S2: is going to make it possible for people to not 467 00:23:54,260 --> 00:23:56,860 S2: have to work at all. And, you know, I think 468 00:23:56,859 --> 00:23:58,980 S2: people share that and they're like, man, this is exciting. 469 00:23:59,260 --> 00:24:03,140 S2: But I think biblically that's terrifying because God made us 470 00:24:03,140 --> 00:24:05,780 S2: to work. He made us to work. Even you may 471 00:24:05,820 --> 00:24:08,380 S2: be familiar Christian like we are with the expression or 472 00:24:08,380 --> 00:24:12,260 S2: the axiom, enjoy what you do and you'll never work 473 00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:14,979 S2: a day in your life. Yes. And I think to 474 00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:17,659 S2: be fair, my generation is on the receiving end of 475 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:22,820 S2: that axiom. They've been told by people for their whole life, 476 00:24:22,820 --> 00:24:24,860 S2: enjoy what you do and you'll never work a day 477 00:24:24,859 --> 00:24:27,610 S2: in your life. I take I take issue with that 478 00:24:27,609 --> 00:24:31,690 S2: phrase for a couple of reasons. First of all, every 479 00:24:31,730 --> 00:24:34,730 S2: job has its thorns. We work in a fallen world. 480 00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:36,649 S2: I love my job. I love being a pastor. I 481 00:24:36,650 --> 00:24:41,250 S2: love shepherding God's people. But sometimes my job is work, right? 482 00:24:41,290 --> 00:24:43,889 S2: It's hard, and everything good in life is on the 483 00:24:43,890 --> 00:24:47,330 S2: other side of hard. Secondly, when you tell the next generation, 484 00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:48,930 S2: enjoy what you do and you'll never work a day 485 00:24:48,930 --> 00:24:52,050 S2: in your life, you're putting work in a negative category. 486 00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:53,810 S2: You're saying, son, if you enjoy what you do, you'll 487 00:24:53,810 --> 00:24:56,930 S2: never have to work. So you make work a bad thing. 488 00:24:56,930 --> 00:24:58,850 S2: But work is not a bad thing. Work is a 489 00:24:58,850 --> 00:25:01,250 S2: good thing. Work is a God thing. I want to 490 00:25:01,250 --> 00:25:03,810 S2: tell my son. And we just had a baby boy 491 00:25:04,290 --> 00:25:07,010 S2: last month. I want my son growing up. And I 492 00:25:07,010 --> 00:25:09,810 S2: want to say, son, work is the way we honor God. 493 00:25:09,810 --> 00:25:13,530 S2: Let's work hard. Even with my daughters, there are five, three, two. 494 00:25:13,810 --> 00:25:18,290 S2: I say we're the artos. We're hard. And then they respond, workers. 495 00:25:18,650 --> 00:25:21,970 S2: And so I think that because work has been framed 496 00:25:21,970 --> 00:25:25,130 S2: as a negative thing, people grow up going, I want 497 00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:27,650 S2: to escape the rat race. And to a degree, I 498 00:25:27,650 --> 00:25:31,130 S2: understand it like, hey, you should be strategic. But so 499 00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:33,889 S2: much has been framing work in this, this negative category. 500 00:25:33,930 --> 00:25:36,010 S1: Yeah. You got to get that five year old out 501 00:25:36,010 --> 00:25:39,450 S1: there and have her get a job as soon as possible. Okay. 502 00:25:39,490 --> 00:25:42,290 S1: Johnny Ardavanis is with us. I want to hear how 503 00:25:42,290 --> 00:25:48,610 S1: you feel about the work you do. 8775. 4836. Seven. Five. 504 00:25:48,650 --> 00:26:04,050 S1: Get to work. Our featured resource. Chris Fabry live.org. Astronaut 505 00:26:04,330 --> 00:26:07,050 S1: Johnny Ardavanis is with us today at the back fence. 506 00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:10,449 S1: His new book is Get to Work. It's really, really 507 00:26:10,450 --> 00:26:16,050 S1: good seeing your daily grind as God's good gift. Featured 508 00:26:16,050 --> 00:26:20,490 S1: resource at Chris fabry.org. On Facebook, I posted this. How 509 00:26:20,490 --> 00:26:22,649 S1: do you feel about the work you do? And I 510 00:26:22,650 --> 00:26:25,600 S1: didn't say anything more than that. Is this a simple question? 511 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,000 S1: How do you feel about the work you do? Dawn says, 512 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,680 S1: I'm retired, but I'm teaching art to more than 100 513 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,520 S1: home schoolers. We survived by donations from the kindness of 514 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,119 S1: others because we don't charge. My husband does music. I 515 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,320 S1: missed teaching in the public schools, so it really makes 516 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,959 S1: me feel good. Mary says I'm a stalker in a 517 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,040 S1: major home improvement store. I love it. Mary says, I'm 518 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,560 S1: retired and I love it. Ivy says, I'm delighted I 519 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,800 S1: am a teacher. It is an honor. I'm blessed to 520 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,520 S1: have a job helping older adults. Michelle says, and be 521 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,560 S1: their caregiver, I love it. Cheryl says I've enjoyed being 522 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,360 S1: a medical transcriptionist for more than 25 years. That's the 523 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,040 S1: good news. The bad news? I've lost all but one 524 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,720 S1: doctor to AI. I'm not too happy about that. And 525 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,240 S1: Tracy says, I'm a paralegal. It's okay. I just wish 526 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,240 S1: attorneys were easier to work with. Okay, I get that too. 527 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,680 S1: Johnny responds to some of those. What stands out to you? 528 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,880 S2: I think there's obviously like a level of, you know, 529 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,400 S2: variety to what we do for work. And there's some difficulty, 530 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,200 S2: you know, obviously the landscape of, of work and can 531 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,040 S2: have some difficulty with see that it can feel mundane, 532 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,880 S2: it can feel monotonous, it can be unfair. It can 533 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,880 S2: feel like, you know, you work with difficult people. And 534 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,000 S2: one of the things that even in hearing what, you know, 535 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,439 S2: some of those responses, Chris, that I'm so thankful for, 536 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,120 S2: I'm so thankful that the Bibles, you know, prescription for 537 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,120 S2: how to work in a broken world is utterly realistic. 538 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,159 S2: What I mean by that is the Bible is not 539 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,320 S2: in la la land. The what we have in the 540 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,920 S2: New Testament is fully in light of the thorns difficulties. 541 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,960 S2: And there is new, you know, innovation that has taken place, 542 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,550 S2: even referencing the AI. but as far as the day 543 00:28:23,550 --> 00:28:25,830 S2: to day, and I feel like I've lost a little 544 00:28:25,869 --> 00:28:27,990 S2: bit of, you know, meaning in my work or there's 545 00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:30,429 S2: difficulty I work with. I'm a paralegal and I work 546 00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:33,550 S2: with difficult lawyers. Uh, what we find in God's Word 547 00:28:33,550 --> 00:28:36,550 S2: is really relevant to all types of people. And I 548 00:28:36,550 --> 00:28:38,950 S2: think as I walk through the book, you know, Paul 549 00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:42,710 S2: says in Colossians 323, you know, whatever it is you do, 550 00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:45,790 S2: do it with all your might. And so initial answer 551 00:28:45,790 --> 00:28:48,990 S2: to each of those, even the retired person, because there's 552 00:28:48,990 --> 00:28:51,190 S2: no retirement from the mission of God, you may retire 553 00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:54,230 S2: from your job, but John nine four still applies. We 554 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:56,310 S2: must do the works of him who sent me while 555 00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:58,990 S2: it is day. Night is coming when no man can 556 00:28:58,990 --> 00:29:01,550 S2: work us. And so first of all, we need to 557 00:29:01,550 --> 00:29:05,150 S2: work with a level of enthusiasm. Whatever it is you're doing, 558 00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:07,230 S2: do it with all your might. Now, one of the 559 00:29:07,230 --> 00:29:10,150 S2: things that I find fascinating and convicting is that when 560 00:29:10,150 --> 00:29:15,070 S2: Paul gives that imperative, he's not writing exclusively to CEOs 561 00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:18,950 S2: and corner offices overlooking the Mediterranean. He's writing to slaves 562 00:29:19,150 --> 00:29:23,070 S2: and to servants, people on the lowest rung of society. 563 00:29:23,070 --> 00:29:25,630 S2: And he's saying, hey, if this is what you're doing, 564 00:29:25,670 --> 00:29:28,070 S2: do it with all your might. He tells them not 565 00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:30,070 S2: only to work with enthusiasm. He tells them to work 566 00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:32,910 S2: with excellence, meaning maybe your job is not something that 567 00:29:32,910 --> 00:29:35,190 S2: you want to do forever. Maybe you find a difficulty 568 00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:36,750 S2: of working with the people to your left and to 569 00:29:36,750 --> 00:29:39,870 S2: your right. You're still to work with excellence. You're to 570 00:29:39,910 --> 00:29:44,910 S2: work with integrity. And Paul says in Ephesians six, ultimately, 571 00:29:44,910 --> 00:29:47,870 S2: no matter what the job is, Paul says, it is 572 00:29:47,870 --> 00:29:51,110 S2: Christ whom you serve. Meaning every boss in this life 573 00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:55,030 S2: is ultimately middle management in comparison with your work being 574 00:29:55,030 --> 00:29:58,350 S2: done for your king. And I think that's something people 575 00:29:58,350 --> 00:30:01,190 S2: lose sight of is because, you know, we live in 576 00:30:01,230 --> 00:30:04,790 S2: kind of a, a very segmented world. You know, a 577 00:30:04,790 --> 00:30:06,790 S2: couple hundred years ago, someone was a part of both 578 00:30:06,790 --> 00:30:09,350 S2: the beginning and the finished process. They could see what 579 00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:11,790 S2: they do come to completion. But now, like a customer 580 00:30:11,790 --> 00:30:14,630 S2: service representative may have no idea of the product that 581 00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:17,470 S2: they are representing. You know, they're disconnected from the whole. 582 00:30:17,630 --> 00:30:19,740 S2: And so it's hard to really see like, well, this 583 00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:22,660 S2: is what I'm doing. But the Bible says, no, it's 584 00:30:22,660 --> 00:30:25,220 S2: Christ that you're doing this for. That's why you do 585 00:30:25,220 --> 00:30:28,700 S2: it with excellence, enthusiasm, integrity. And then one other thing 586 00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:30,740 S2: that I think has been near and dear to my heart. 587 00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:33,860 S2: One of the verses that we make kids memorize often. 588 00:30:33,860 --> 00:30:35,700 S2: It's a verse that my parents made me memorize when 589 00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:39,380 S2: I was a kid is Philippians 214 do all things 590 00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:42,660 S2: without grumbling or complaining. Um, I'm just going to pause 591 00:30:42,660 --> 00:30:45,219 S2: there for a moment. It's really critical for every Christian 592 00:30:45,220 --> 00:30:48,220 S2: to understand that that is one of the most important 593 00:30:48,220 --> 00:30:51,180 S2: verses as it relates to our work. Sometimes the water 594 00:30:51,180 --> 00:30:55,980 S2: cooler talk of the workplace, even amongst Christians, is negative. 595 00:30:56,460 --> 00:30:59,380 S2: And obviously there can be a level of honesty and transparency, 596 00:30:59,380 --> 00:31:01,580 S2: but it says do all things without grumbling and complaining. 597 00:31:01,780 --> 00:31:05,300 S2: And then it says so that you might shine as 598 00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:08,700 S2: stars in the midst of a perverse and crooked generation. 599 00:31:08,860 --> 00:31:13,700 S2: Meaning this, that just by the absence of grumbling and complaining, 600 00:31:14,060 --> 00:31:18,340 S2: you compel the watching world to ask, what God do 601 00:31:18,340 --> 00:31:20,860 S2: you serve? And going back to what you said at 602 00:31:20,860 --> 00:31:23,740 S2: the beginning regarding the C.T. Studd quote, only one life 603 00:31:23,740 --> 00:31:25,700 S2: will soon be past. Only what's done for Christ will last. 604 00:31:26,020 --> 00:31:29,860 S2: Your attitude while you work, even in something mundane. And 605 00:31:29,860 --> 00:31:32,580 S2: by the way, we talk about mundane. The greatest man 606 00:31:32,580 --> 00:31:36,380 S2: in the Old Testament, Moses. For 80 of his 120 years, 607 00:31:36,380 --> 00:31:39,100 S2: he was wandering around in the desert. It's not like 608 00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:41,220 S2: all of all of these great heroes. Life was full 609 00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:44,340 S2: of action. It was going back and forth from Midian 610 00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:46,340 S2: to 40 years, and then wandering around in the desert 611 00:31:46,340 --> 00:31:50,740 S2: for another 40. So God's creatures and God's children have 612 00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:53,820 S2: their PhDs in the mundane. But by the absence of 613 00:31:53,820 --> 00:31:56,300 S2: grumbling and complaining, we proved to the watching world that 614 00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:58,460 S2: we've been changed by God. I think it was Tim 615 00:31:58,460 --> 00:32:01,140 S2: Challies who said, when we work in a way that's 616 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:04,060 S2: laced with grumbling and complaining, we make the gospel look bad. 617 00:32:04,420 --> 00:32:07,580 S2: And so, I don't know, to each of the you know, 618 00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:11,380 S2: there's obviously a lot that goes to each person's situation 619 00:32:11,380 --> 00:32:14,060 S2: and the context of their work, but it's really helpful 620 00:32:14,060 --> 00:32:15,940 S2: to know, first of all, I'm a believer, which means 621 00:32:16,020 --> 00:32:18,860 S2: my identity is in Christ. It's not in my work. 622 00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:21,460 S2: Second of all, I have a new motivation in my work, 623 00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:23,780 S2: even if I'm not really about it. Meaning if I 624 00:32:23,780 --> 00:32:26,660 S2: don't like being a busboy, uh, but I see my 625 00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:29,900 S2: I have this motivation. Working with excellence is a way. 626 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:33,100 S2: I love my neighbor. And then even I have this 627 00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:37,100 S2: new push for excellence that it says, I'll tell slaves 628 00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:40,660 S2: to do their work from the heart, rendering goodwill to 629 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:43,100 S2: those above them, meaning that he tells them, hey, it 630 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:45,820 S2: should be your objective to bless your boss, even if 631 00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:48,180 S2: you don't really like him. So much of this is 632 00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:51,660 S2: countercultural because people want to do the bare minimum. But 633 00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:54,220 S2: the scripture says to work with the level of gusto 634 00:32:54,220 --> 00:32:58,420 S2: to give it your very best. And this functions and 635 00:32:58,460 --> 00:33:00,020 S2: I and so this is where I want to come 636 00:33:00,020 --> 00:33:02,380 S2: full circle to what I said. Work is more than 637 00:33:02,380 --> 00:33:05,340 S2: just a place to win people to Christ. You can 638 00:33:05,380 --> 00:33:08,380 S2: honor the Lord in your work itself. But when you 639 00:33:08,420 --> 00:33:10,620 S2: work in a way that honors the Lord without grumbling 640 00:33:10,620 --> 00:33:14,540 S2: and complaining with integrity, excellence, enthusiasm, it functions as the 641 00:33:14,650 --> 00:33:17,930 S2: platform to be able to tell the watching world around you. 642 00:33:18,290 --> 00:33:22,130 S2: I've been changed by God and I'm working for and 643 00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:26,650 S2: unto his glory. And those that makes even the most 644 00:33:26,650 --> 00:33:32,130 S2: mundane responsibility exciting and thrilling. And because you're seeing even 645 00:33:32,130 --> 00:33:34,850 S2: the minutia in your life as an opportunity to glorify God. 646 00:33:34,890 --> 00:33:39,810 S1: Yes. And that is countercultural. And that will, it'll make 647 00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:42,130 S1: you when you wake up in the morning, it'll make 648 00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:45,250 S1: you different than anybody else who's coming on to that 649 00:33:45,250 --> 00:33:48,730 S1: assembly line or whatever it is that you're doing. But 650 00:33:48,730 --> 00:33:52,770 S1: what happens when you see a stoppage, a stumbling block? 651 00:33:52,770 --> 00:33:54,890 S1: I want to get Heather in here. Heather, why did 652 00:33:54,890 --> 00:33:55,810 S1: you call today? 653 00:33:57,370 --> 00:34:03,410 S3: Um. Good afternoon. Um, tomorrow, unfortunately, I lose my job. Um, 654 00:34:03,410 --> 00:34:05,250 S3: I've known about this for a couple months, and it's 655 00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:09,009 S3: my last day. And people who I tell that to, I, 656 00:34:09,010 --> 00:34:11,810 S3: you know, they're apologetic. And I said, please don't be. 657 00:34:12,130 --> 00:34:15,210 S3: I said, there's a reason why I'm losing this job. 658 00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:21,129 S3: And I I've always said, God has a plan. And, um, 659 00:34:21,170 --> 00:34:24,210 S3: the one thing that I have learned is I can't 660 00:34:24,210 --> 00:34:26,930 S3: just do this myself. I'm not going to the job 661 00:34:26,930 --> 00:34:29,330 S3: is just not going to land, you know, right there. 662 00:34:29,330 --> 00:34:32,089 S3: But I have learned that we're working with God in 663 00:34:32,090 --> 00:34:38,410 S3: prayer and, um, listening to him for guidance does, you know, 664 00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:42,009 S3: works with the works, is able to help me with 665 00:34:42,050 --> 00:34:45,530 S3: getting that position. However, the flip side I always say 666 00:34:45,530 --> 00:34:47,969 S3: is you just can't expect God to just hand it 667 00:34:47,969 --> 00:34:49,689 S3: to you. You just can't sit there and pray, God, 668 00:34:49,690 --> 00:34:52,130 S3: please give me a job and not work towards it 669 00:34:52,130 --> 00:34:56,969 S3: and try to find that. And, um, so you know 670 00:34:57,010 --> 00:35:00,169 S3: what I was doing? God's got a better plan for me. 671 00:35:00,170 --> 00:35:02,089 S3: I know that I just, I just don't know what 672 00:35:02,090 --> 00:35:04,170 S3: that's going to be. I just have to wait and see. 673 00:35:04,489 --> 00:35:07,770 S1: Yeah. And, and you're right here in the middle of 674 00:35:07,930 --> 00:35:11,770 S1: the turmoil, the day before you walk out the door 675 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,239 S1: for the last time. So there's, you know, that's an 676 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,680 S1: emotional thing. You probably have friends there that you've worked 677 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,919 S1: with for, for a while. Let me get Johnny in here. 678 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,200 S1: Pastor Johnny, what do you say to Heather? 679 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,920 S2: Well, there is a difficulty of losing your job. And 680 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,240 S2: I think what was already said, Heather, is so true. 681 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,919 S2: God has already, Paul says, promised to meet our every 682 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,280 S2: need in Christ Jesus. God is sovereign over the sparrows, 683 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,279 S2: two of which fall to the ground. And they're worth 684 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,319 S2: a single penny. How much more someone who has made 685 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,160 S2: in his image and purchased by his blood. And so 686 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,319 S2: there is a level of anxiety that comes in like, 687 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,920 S2: how am I going to meet the needs of, you know, 688 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,920 S2: my family? How am I going to meet my needs? 689 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,440 S2: And so that kind of goes back, honestly, to my 690 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,759 S2: previous book, what I talked about and just entrusting the Lord, 691 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,600 S2: which I think Heather's doing a great job at, but 692 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,880 S2: you know, all those needs, your basic, you know, Maslow's hierarchy, 693 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:00,960 S2: you know, what are we going to eat? What are 694 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,640 S2: we going to wear for clothing? That's what Jesus addresses 695 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,800 S2: in Matthew six. Do I not care for the larks 696 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,319 S2: and for the lilies? How much more those who I 697 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,719 S2: made with my image. Heather did touch on something that 698 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,239 S2: like a job is not just going to fall into 699 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,760 S2: her lap. And I think there's, there's truth in that. Obviously, 700 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,279 S2: you go to God in prayer, and I think that's 701 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,319 S2: a great place to start, Chris, because according to Jesus, 702 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,800 S2: our greatest problem in life is not unanswered prayers, but 703 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,640 S2: unoffered prayers. He says, you have not because you ask not. 704 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,680 S2: And so we do go to God in prayer and 705 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,880 S2: we ask him. But then also we read in Proverbs that. 706 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,120 S2: And in Psalms, wisdom, literature that you prepare for the 707 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,520 S2: horse for battle, and the battle belongs to the Lord, 708 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,279 S2: meaning this, that we we serve the Lord and honor 709 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,720 S2: the Lord with our diligence, all while we depend on him. 710 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,399 S2: I think sometimes people view waiting on the Lord as 711 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,880 S2: synonymous with idleness, but waiting on the Lord is active. 712 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,799 S2: Even when you go to the example of Esther who 713 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,960 S2: waited on the Lord, she prepared a feast, a fast. 714 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,440 S2: She went to the king and she trusted the Lord. 715 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,720 S2: And so when we encounter some of those difficult situations, Heather, 716 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,680 S2: and I'm so sorry to hear that about your job. 717 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,160 S2: Waiting on the Lord means we pray, and then we 718 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,839 S2: make some moves honestly and try to evaluate what are 719 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,710 S2: some other opportunities? How can the body of Christ and 720 00:37:11,710 --> 00:37:14,069 S2: the community of faith around me help me to find 721 00:37:14,110 --> 00:37:16,790 S2: something that would both provide for my needs and honor 722 00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:19,149 S2: the Lord? And. And sometimes we look back and we're 723 00:37:19,150 --> 00:37:23,070 S2: so thankful for God's providences. And one Puritan said that 724 00:37:23,550 --> 00:37:25,790 S2: the way God leads us, his providence is a rehearsal 725 00:37:25,790 --> 00:37:28,589 S2: in worship because we're always. We end up thankful. And 726 00:37:28,590 --> 00:37:30,390 S2: if we're not thankful in this life and we can't 727 00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:32,790 S2: connect the dots one day in glory, when we meet 728 00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:35,629 S2: him face to face, we'll understand the tapestry he's weaving 729 00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:37,950 S2: of our life, which is often fraught with difficulty. 730 00:37:39,310 --> 00:37:42,189 S1: Heather, how's your heart? How do you. I sense that 731 00:37:42,190 --> 00:37:45,470 S1: you are really trusting in God, but at the same 732 00:37:45,469 --> 00:37:49,630 S1: time it feels like. But I don't know what's next. 733 00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:53,750 S1: And that's both exciting and stirring up fear in a 734 00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:54,870 S1: certain sense, right? 735 00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:58,670 S3: Uh, it is because it's like, you know, we're sitting there, 736 00:37:58,710 --> 00:38:01,029 S3: I'm sitting here waiting, okay, what's going to be my 737 00:38:01,030 --> 00:38:04,189 S3: next opportunity? And I don't know, you know, I've been 738 00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:07,470 S3: in one industry for so long now that industry is dying, 739 00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:10,989 S3: I have to move on to another industry. And it's, 740 00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:13,470 S3: you know, I'm looking through job descriptions and I'm like, okay, 741 00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:15,470 S3: I think I can do this. And I'm like, and 742 00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:19,070 S3: I sit there and I apply and, you know, pray 743 00:38:19,070 --> 00:38:23,390 S3: I get, um, you know, an interview and I just tell, 744 00:38:23,590 --> 00:38:25,390 S3: I just give it up to God. And I said, 745 00:38:25,630 --> 00:38:29,190 S3: you know, he has had a plan for my whole life. 746 00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:32,350 S3: And I go back and I look at, um, real quick, 747 00:38:32,350 --> 00:38:35,750 S3: I have a son with cerebral palsy. And when he 748 00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:38,750 S3: was born, I had to lose my job. And because 749 00:38:38,750 --> 00:38:41,390 S3: I couldn't go back to work and they begged me 750 00:38:41,390 --> 00:38:43,469 S3: to come back and they finally said, okay, if we 751 00:38:43,469 --> 00:38:45,710 S3: give you a laptop, will you work at home? And 752 00:38:45,710 --> 00:38:47,350 S3: I was able to be home with my kids for 753 00:38:47,350 --> 00:38:51,670 S3: seven years because of that. So there's a reason for everything. 754 00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:54,549 S3: And I've learned that. I said, God has always made 755 00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:56,990 S3: sure I have food on my table, clothes on my back, 756 00:38:56,989 --> 00:39:00,069 S3: and a roof over my head. Everything else is gravy. 757 00:39:00,510 --> 00:39:03,790 S3: So as long as those needs are met, I know 758 00:39:03,790 --> 00:39:07,670 S3: I'm going to continue on. So actually here at 3:00. 759 00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:10,870 S3: I got a job interview. Phone interview. So hoping it 760 00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:12,670 S3: goes well, but, well. 761 00:39:12,989 --> 00:39:18,870 S1: Your confidence, your confidence is infectious. The way that you say, 762 00:39:18,910 --> 00:39:21,230 S1: you know, God is going to work this out. I 763 00:39:21,230 --> 00:39:23,029 S1: know he's going to do this. I don't know the 764 00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:25,950 S1: time frame, but I'm going to trust him and not 765 00:39:25,950 --> 00:39:28,710 S1: just trust myself and that I can do this in 766 00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:32,830 S1: my own strength. That is really encouraging to us. Even 767 00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:36,029 S1: though tomorrow is your last day, Heather. Hang on. We'll 768 00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:38,310 S1: want to send you something that I think will encourage you. 769 00:39:38,350 --> 00:39:42,910 S1: Tricia will get your information. Johnny Ardavanis has written get 770 00:39:42,910 --> 00:39:46,630 S1: to work. Seeing your daily grind is God's good gift. 771 00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:58,670 S1: Find out more at Chris Fabry live.org. This kind of 772 00:39:58,670 --> 00:40:01,710 S1: program kind of conversation that will reorient you and make 773 00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:04,109 S1: you want to get out of bed tomorrow and get 774 00:40:04,110 --> 00:40:08,300 S1: to work. Johnny Ardavanis has written get to work seeing 775 00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:12,779 S1: your daily grind as God's good gift. Featured resource at 776 00:40:12,780 --> 00:40:16,100 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. I have to bring this up because 777 00:40:16,100 --> 00:40:18,500 S1: I've often heard, you know, you can't choose your parents. 778 00:40:18,540 --> 00:40:21,180 S1: You know you can't choose your siblings. They are the 779 00:40:21,460 --> 00:40:26,580 S1: what you get. But God did Jesus when he was born, 780 00:40:27,739 --> 00:40:31,299 S1: Joseph and Mary were chosen. And he and God did 781 00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:36,100 S1: not choose the professional priest, the rabbi in town, the 782 00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:42,060 S1: professional religionist you know, he chose a carpenter. So talk 783 00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:42,940 S1: about that. 784 00:40:44,100 --> 00:40:47,140 S2: You know, I'm always fascinated by that because, you know, 785 00:40:47,180 --> 00:40:50,299 S2: different writers have commented on it before that if you 786 00:40:50,340 --> 00:40:52,859 S2: were expecting, you know, from a Roman perspective, who would 787 00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:55,500 S2: you know if God was to appear in human flesh, 788 00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:57,180 S2: what would he be? Well, to a Roman, he would 789 00:40:57,180 --> 00:41:00,700 S2: be a great general or a political statesman. To a 790 00:41:00,700 --> 00:41:04,460 S2: Greek he would have been a great philosopher, a thinker. um, 791 00:41:04,739 --> 00:41:08,380 S2: you know, a statistician, an intellectual. But when the God 792 00:41:08,380 --> 00:41:10,900 S2: of the Hebrews, when the God of the Bible appeared, 793 00:41:10,900 --> 00:41:15,060 S2: he appeared as a Tekton. And sometimes we, we think 794 00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:16,980 S2: about that as a, you know, a carpenter. And we 795 00:41:16,980 --> 00:41:19,900 S2: have this idea that Jesus was making, you know, custom 796 00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:23,980 S2: kitchen cabinetry. But from a scriptural and biblical perspective, it 797 00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:26,739 S2: means that he was a construction worker. He spent his 798 00:41:26,739 --> 00:41:32,180 S2: life carving down beams, building bridges, hewing stone. He was 799 00:41:32,180 --> 00:41:36,580 S2: a stonemason. And for most of Jesus's life, he lived 800 00:41:36,580 --> 00:41:39,100 S2: in total obscurity. That's why the disciples say, can anything 801 00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:42,060 S2: good come out of Nazareth? Can I mean, who's there? Like, 802 00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:44,819 S2: is this Jesus, the son of the carpenter? Is what 803 00:41:44,820 --> 00:41:47,540 S2: they ask of him? So we know about his three 804 00:41:47,540 --> 00:41:51,020 S2: year ministry, less about maybe the years between 12 and 805 00:41:51,020 --> 00:41:54,379 S2: 30 when Jesus was in his father's shop. And it's 806 00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:57,580 S2: amazing that we know that Jesus not only died for 807 00:41:57,580 --> 00:42:00,380 S2: our sins, but he lives the perfect life that we 808 00:42:00,380 --> 00:42:03,410 S2: could never live, which qualified him to be our substitute. 809 00:42:03,410 --> 00:42:07,810 S2: And included in that perfect life is his obedience to 810 00:42:07,850 --> 00:42:11,530 S2: just be a human, be a worker he worked with. 811 00:42:11,570 --> 00:42:13,250 S2: You know, you think about it. If if he was 812 00:42:13,290 --> 00:42:16,330 S2: a bridge builder, he was the best bridge builder there 813 00:42:16,330 --> 00:42:20,170 S2: ever was because he did it as unto as unto God. 814 00:42:20,170 --> 00:42:22,210 S2: And so for his glory. And so it is amazing 815 00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:28,009 S2: to think about. And with that there is clearly seen 816 00:42:28,370 --> 00:42:31,850 S2: once again the demolishing of the secular sacred divide that 817 00:42:31,850 --> 00:42:34,410 S2: he was no less about his father's business when he says, 818 00:42:34,410 --> 00:42:36,410 S2: at the age of 12, didn't you know I would 819 00:42:36,410 --> 00:42:38,770 S2: be about my father's business? And then for the next 820 00:42:38,770 --> 00:42:41,969 S2: 18 years, he's in his father's shop as a carpenter. 821 00:42:41,969 --> 00:42:45,210 S2: He was about his father's business when he was working. 822 00:42:45,489 --> 00:42:47,250 S2: And it's so much of what we see in the 823 00:42:47,250 --> 00:42:50,370 S2: opening pages of Scripture God's creativity, his artistry. He's a 824 00:42:50,370 --> 00:42:52,890 S2: worker and one of one of the passages that I 825 00:42:52,890 --> 00:42:56,010 S2: love in the Old Testament. Uh, Chris, is the first 826 00:42:56,010 --> 00:43:00,250 S2: time that we read of someone who's being who's filled 827 00:43:00,250 --> 00:43:03,850 S2: with the Spirit of God. It's not Moses, the lawgiver, 828 00:43:03,890 --> 00:43:07,890 S2: nor Elijah the law's greatest prophet. It's Bezalel who was 829 00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:13,129 S2: instructed with the craftsmanship of the tabernacle. And he never 830 00:43:13,130 --> 00:43:16,210 S2: preaches a single sermon. He never says a single word 831 00:43:16,210 --> 00:43:20,009 S2: in recorded scripture. But Bezalel, the man who is given 832 00:43:20,010 --> 00:43:23,850 S2: the responsibility of the tabernacle, much like Jesus later on, 833 00:43:23,850 --> 00:43:25,569 S2: was said to be filled with the Spirit of God 834 00:43:25,570 --> 00:43:28,770 S2: because he was doing his responsibility, the work before him 835 00:43:28,969 --> 00:43:30,810 S2: in a way that honored the father. And so I'm 836 00:43:30,810 --> 00:43:33,770 S2: so thankful for that truth, so thankful that no matter 837 00:43:33,770 --> 00:43:36,210 S2: what you're doing, if you're listening, that you have an 838 00:43:36,210 --> 00:43:38,530 S2: opportunity to mirror and mimic the God that made you 839 00:43:38,530 --> 00:43:39,810 S2: and bought you with his blood. 840 00:43:40,370 --> 00:43:43,250 S1: I have about a hundred questions and Bezalel was on there. 841 00:43:43,250 --> 00:43:45,930 S1: I'm so glad you brought him up. I want to 842 00:43:45,930 --> 00:43:48,690 S1: talk about Cathy. Let me crow about Cathy. She says 843 00:43:48,690 --> 00:43:54,250 S1: I'm semi-retired. I just celebrated 60 years of cosmetology. I've 844 00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:58,609 S1: always loved doing hair. My parents greatly sacrificed for me 845 00:43:58,610 --> 00:44:01,239 S1: to do this. So I got my license while I 846 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,600 S1: was a senior in high school. Yes, there have been glitches, 847 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,120 S1: but God's been so amazing to use them for his glory. 848 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,080 S1: And what's so great, too, is that moody radio plays 849 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,400 S1: in my shop every day. I'm there. My customers enjoy 850 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,000 S1: it and they're all my friends and family. Thanks for 851 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,000 S1: your program today. So Cathy, if you are in the 852 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,759 S1: in the shop today doing hair, we salute you and 853 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:29,120 S1: thank you. And you can just hear that 60 years. Johnny. 854 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,200 S1: That's a long track record, isn't it? 855 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:37,160 S2: Yeah. Congratulations. That's amazing Cathy. Kudos to you. And that's 856 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,080 S2: a life well lived to be able to do something 857 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,759 S2: that's a service, right? So even going back to loving 858 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,719 S2: your neighbor, everybody needs a haircut. And that's a way 859 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,319 S2: that you you love and serve other people. It's a 860 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,480 S2: service that needs to be done. And I'm so grateful 861 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,880 S2: for the person that cuts my hair. So Cathy, congratulations. 862 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,080 S1: We'll let your let your tip do the talking. You know, 863 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,600 S1: the next time that your tip be your, uh, the 864 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,720 S1: way you say thank you. Okay. So, uh, a minute 865 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,080 S1: and a half left here, Johnny. What do you say 866 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,040 S1: to the person who says, yeah, I hear what you're saying, 867 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,799 S1: but I still struggle getting up in the morning. What 868 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:13,680 S1: do you say to them? 869 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,920 S2: Well, welcome to the club. You know, I would say 870 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,880 S2: I struggle getting up in the morning. And so, you know, 871 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,040 S2: one of the things I'm so thankful for, Chris, is 872 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,080 S2: the models that are put out for us in Scripture. 873 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,680 S2: You know, Paul says the Christian life is like a boxer, 874 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,879 S2: a runner, a farmer and a slave. There's nothing easy 875 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,279 S2: about being a Christian. In fact, it's impossible. We can't 876 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,480 S2: do it in our own strength. And so we need 877 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,040 S2: to go to God and ask him for his help. 878 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,400 S2: Fill me with Your Holy Spirit. Convict me of passivity 879 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,080 S2: and sluggishness. Help me to honor you. And then Paul says, 880 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,160 S2: I want to spend and be spent for the gospel. 881 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,080 S2: Meaning we want to live in a way that honors God, 882 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,600 S2: and we want to make some resolutions, but we can't 883 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,560 S2: make those resolutions possible without the help of the Holy Spirit. 884 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,080 S2: And so we have to go to him in prayer 885 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,630 S2: and ask him for his power. 886 00:45:58,710 --> 00:46:01,190 S1: Johnny, always great to talk with you. Thank you for 887 00:46:01,190 --> 00:46:03,629 S1: doing this. Thanks for writing. This is this is one 888 00:46:03,630 --> 00:46:06,589 S1: of the best books I've read all year. And it's 889 00:46:06,590 --> 00:46:09,550 S1: going to give some real encouragement. Yeah, it's it's really, 890 00:46:09,550 --> 00:46:13,029 S1: really good. Get to work seeing your daily grind as 891 00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:16,989 S1: God's good gift. Pastor Johnny Ardavanis, thanks for joining us 892 00:46:16,989 --> 00:46:19,430 S1: at the back fence. Have a great rest of the week. Okay. 893 00:46:20,270 --> 00:46:22,110 S2: All right. Sweet. Thank you so much, Chris. 894 00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:26,029 S1: And that the emphasis on that is not an imperative. 895 00:46:26,070 --> 00:46:29,790 S1: Get to work. It's, hey, you get to work. It's 896 00:46:29,790 --> 00:46:31,870 S1: this is not a chore. This is not a daily 897 00:46:31,870 --> 00:46:34,350 S1: grind that you have to do. It's you get to 898 00:46:34,350 --> 00:46:39,270 S1: do something for him and your, your boss is just 899 00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:42,470 S1: a middle manager, I like that. Thanks for listening today 900 00:46:42,510 --> 00:46:45,750 S1: for supporting the program. Come on back tomorrow for Chris 901 00:46:45,790 --> 00:46:48,950 S1: Fabry live production of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody 902 00:46:48,989 --> 00:46:50,149 S1: Bible Institute.