1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,480 S1: Jesus taught that the true measure of our giving isn't 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,920 S1: the size of the gift, but the heart behind it. Hi, 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,760 S1: I'm Rob West. Generosity starts long before anything leaves our hands. 4 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,760 S1: It begins with what we treasure most. Today, Pierce Taylor 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,639 S1: Hibbs joins us to explore the motives that shape our 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,960 S1: giving and why God cares so deeply about them. And 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,080 S1: then it's on to your calls at 805 two, five 7000. 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,239 S1: That's 805, two five 7000. This is faith and finance. Live. 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:46,480 S1: Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, our guest today 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,200 S1: is Pierce Taylor Hibbs, author of more than 20 books 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,559 S1: on Christian living, including The Book of Giving How the 12 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,480 S1: God Who Gives Can Make Us Givers. Pierce, great to 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:57,480 S1: have you with us today. 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,400 S2: Well, thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:00,040 S2: to be here. 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,960 S1: Pierce, you have an incredible gift for taking deep theological 17 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,880 S1: truths and bringing them down into the rhythms of everyday life. 18 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,880 S1: And I love this article you did for us on 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,600 S1: giving and the latest issue of Faithful Steward. It was 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,440 S1: titled motive is everything and you open with this striking line. 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,480 S1: You say there's always some sun around which the planets 22 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,480 S1: of our lives turn. Boy, that's really just insightful. I'd 23 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,640 S1: love for you to unpack that a bit. For us. 24 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,479 S2: That phrase, that image is given by one of my 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,640 S2: favorite theologians or counselors, David Paulison. Um, so if anyone 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,200 S2: has not read or listened to David Paulison, who's now 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,520 S2: gone to be with the Lord, uh, I encourage you 28 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,880 S2: to do that. But, uh, he used this, this image 29 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,600 S2: in one of his lectures and basically meant that there's 30 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,320 S2: always something that we're worshiping. Um, our hearts are always 31 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,640 S2: pulled towards something, just like a planet is pulled toward 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,890 S2: the sun. And that's not a problem. In fact, because 33 00:02:02,930 --> 00:02:06,770 S2: God has made us to worship. Yes, but there are sorts. 34 00:02:06,810 --> 00:02:08,810 S2: All sorts of of other things in our lives that 35 00:02:08,810 --> 00:02:12,490 S2: will try to pull our attention. Um, and the biblical 36 00:02:12,490 --> 00:02:14,850 S2: language for that sort of thing is idolatry. You know, 37 00:02:14,889 --> 00:02:18,490 S2: that can be money. It can be, um, power. It 38 00:02:18,490 --> 00:02:21,170 S2: can be all kinds of, of negative influences in our lives. 39 00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:25,370 S2: And when those things become the things that we say, 40 00:02:25,370 --> 00:02:28,610 S2: I have to have this in order to be content 41 00:02:28,610 --> 00:02:32,170 S2: or happy, then that's at that point that that that 42 00:02:32,169 --> 00:02:35,490 S2: thing has become a sun around which the lives of 43 00:02:35,490 --> 00:02:39,329 S2: our planets is turning. You know, everything is moving towards that. 44 00:02:39,690 --> 00:02:42,730 S2: And so I found that that quote from, from David 45 00:02:42,730 --> 00:02:46,049 S2: Paulison is very helpful in getting me to think more 46 00:02:46,050 --> 00:02:49,570 S2: deeply about what am I thinking about all the time? 47 00:02:49,570 --> 00:02:53,410 S2: What am I excited about? What am I passionate about? Um, 48 00:02:53,889 --> 00:02:55,650 S2: what do I want to do, for example, with the 49 00:02:55,650 --> 00:02:58,650 S2: money that I have? Yeah. What's worth spending my money on? 50 00:02:58,930 --> 00:03:01,570 S2: Those are all questions that really get a sense of 51 00:03:02,090 --> 00:03:07,210 S2: the gravity. You know, what's your heart orbiting around right now? 52 00:03:07,330 --> 00:03:10,530 S1: Yeah. And to your point, I mean, it ultimately is 53 00:03:10,530 --> 00:03:13,370 S1: about worship. And it can be idol worship if we're 54 00:03:13,370 --> 00:03:16,570 S1: worshiping something other than the Lord. You know, we're to 55 00:03:16,610 --> 00:03:19,889 S1: worship the creator. And often we can worship the creation. 56 00:03:19,889 --> 00:03:22,330 S1: And I know Tim Keller talked a lot about this, 57 00:03:22,370 --> 00:03:25,250 S1: where I believe he even said money is the most 58 00:03:25,250 --> 00:03:28,250 S1: common of the counterfeit gods. Do you believe that to 59 00:03:28,290 --> 00:03:28,850 S1: be true? 60 00:03:29,770 --> 00:03:33,090 S2: I think it's one of them, yes. I think that 61 00:03:33,370 --> 00:03:37,890 S2: Vern Poythress, uh, in discussing the book of Revelation, talked 62 00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:43,570 S2: about the two kind of primary or most powerful idols being, um, 63 00:03:43,930 --> 00:03:47,890 S2: pleasure and power. And I think that money is almost 64 00:03:47,890 --> 00:03:51,250 S2: an odd overlap of those two. Um, you know, people 65 00:03:51,250 --> 00:03:53,730 S2: want money in certain ways, want to use it for 66 00:03:54,050 --> 00:03:55,730 S2: the power that it gives them, but it's also a 67 00:03:55,730 --> 00:03:59,410 S2: source of pleasure. And so if you combine both of 68 00:03:59,410 --> 00:04:04,250 S2: those idols, pleasure and power, that's that's a really strong, uh, 69 00:04:04,250 --> 00:04:05,890 S2: draw for many people. 70 00:04:06,130 --> 00:04:09,330 S1: Mhm. That's well said. You know, talking about this article 71 00:04:09,330 --> 00:04:12,770 S1: you've written for Faithful Steward, you really unpack this beautiful 72 00:04:12,770 --> 00:04:16,010 S1: story of really one of the most famous givers in 73 00:04:16,010 --> 00:04:17,890 S1: God's Word. We don't know her name, but we know 74 00:04:17,890 --> 00:04:22,210 S1: she was a widow, that, uh, Jesus celebrated her gift. 75 00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:25,170 S1: Set up that article for us. Uh, just so listeners 76 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:26,770 S1: understand where you're going with that. 77 00:04:27,130 --> 00:04:31,890 S2: Well, the story in Mark 12 is a fascinating and 78 00:04:31,890 --> 00:04:36,969 S2: beautiful story because it really does uncover what's beneath the 79 00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:40,409 S2: giving that's taking place, uh, which is really the heart 80 00:04:40,410 --> 00:04:43,810 S2: of this widow. And so many people read the story. 81 00:04:43,810 --> 00:04:46,450 S2: And if you imagine yourself in this setting, there are 82 00:04:46,450 --> 00:04:50,850 S2: lots of things you can observe, but you can't observe 83 00:04:50,850 --> 00:04:54,330 S2: the heart of this woman unless you're Jesus. And that's 84 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:57,659 S2: what Jesus does in this story. He observes her heart 85 00:04:57,660 --> 00:05:00,219 S2: and shows it to his disciples. 86 00:05:00,540 --> 00:05:03,940 S1: Well, that's why motives matter. It's the heart behind generosity 87 00:05:03,940 --> 00:05:07,380 S1: that we're exploring today with Pierce Taylor Hibbs. We're just 88 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:10,500 S1: scratching the surface a lot more to come just around 89 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:13,500 S1: the corner. I'm Rob Weston. You're listening to Faith and 90 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:17,860 S1: finance live biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be 91 00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:31,140 S1: right back after this break. Great to have you with 92 00:05:31,140 --> 00:05:33,900 S1: us today on Faith and finance live. With me today, 93 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:37,380 S1: my guest, Pierce Taylor Hibbs. He's senior writer at Westminster 94 00:05:37,380 --> 00:05:41,219 S1: Theological Seminary and the author of more than 20 books. 95 00:05:41,220 --> 00:05:44,460 S1: He's also written an article in our most recent edition 96 00:05:44,460 --> 00:05:48,940 S1: of our magazine, Faithful Steward, called Motive is Everything. And 97 00:05:48,980 --> 00:05:52,900 S1: we're looking at the heart behind generosity. And this really 98 00:05:52,940 --> 00:05:57,060 S1: centers on the widow that we read about in Mark 12, 99 00:05:57,060 --> 00:06:00,300 S1: where we don't know her motivation to Pierce's point, but 100 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:04,539 S1: Jesus did. And he celebrated that. And Pierce, you connect 101 00:06:04,540 --> 00:06:08,860 S1: this idea to the biblical concept of the heart labelled 102 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:13,940 S1: in Scripture. Why is the heart so central to understanding generosity? 103 00:06:14,460 --> 00:06:17,620 S2: That's a great question. I think the whole Bible really 104 00:06:17,620 --> 00:06:21,180 S2: is about the human heart, because the heart is the 105 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:24,020 S2: deepest part of us, and it governs all that we do. 106 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:27,580 S2: There was a Dutch theologian named Herman Bavinck that said 107 00:06:27,580 --> 00:06:30,940 S2: that the heart is the source of all of our 108 00:06:30,940 --> 00:06:34,260 S2: rational or volitional life. All he meant by that was, 109 00:06:34,660 --> 00:06:37,020 S2: the heart is the source of all that we think 110 00:06:37,060 --> 00:06:39,299 S2: and all that we want. And so all these things 111 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:41,380 S2: that come out of our lives, whether they're good things 112 00:06:41,380 --> 00:06:45,219 S2: or bad things, ultimately have roots in the heart. Yeah. 113 00:06:45,260 --> 00:06:48,820 S2: And so when we look at, uh, that as the source, 114 00:06:48,820 --> 00:06:52,260 S2: the heart is the source, then that means that our actions, 115 00:06:52,779 --> 00:06:56,740 S2: such as the actions of this widow in Jesus's life 116 00:06:56,740 --> 00:06:59,859 S2: before his disciples. Our actions are actually only kind of 117 00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:03,540 S2: the tip of an iceberg. And way down deep underneath 118 00:07:03,540 --> 00:07:07,340 S2: that is a motive. Right? Is the reason why we 119 00:07:07,339 --> 00:07:11,100 S2: do what we do. And Jesus is very attentive to 120 00:07:11,140 --> 00:07:14,300 S2: the motive of your heart. And that's one of the 121 00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:18,100 S2: beauties of of this story. He says in Luke's gospel, 122 00:07:18,100 --> 00:07:20,540 S2: for example, the the good person out of the good 123 00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:23,300 S2: treasure of his heart produces good. The evil person out 124 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:26,420 S2: of the evil treasure produces evil. For out of the 125 00:07:26,420 --> 00:07:30,900 S2: abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. So Jesus is 126 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:33,540 S2: very clear that the heart is the source of of 127 00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:36,260 S2: all the things that you say, do, and think. And 128 00:07:36,260 --> 00:07:38,460 S2: that means if your heart is not in the right place, 129 00:07:38,900 --> 00:07:42,580 S2: you could be externally doing what looks to be right. 130 00:07:42,580 --> 00:07:45,580 S2: And yet you're not worshiping God, you're not loving God. 131 00:07:46,020 --> 00:07:49,180 S2: And that's a really big teaching point for Jesus when 132 00:07:49,620 --> 00:07:53,220 S2: he's showing his disciples this widow that puts, you know, 133 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:55,390 S2: two copper coins in the coffer? 134 00:07:55,430 --> 00:07:58,390 S1: Yeah. No doubt. Let's unpack that a bit further, because 135 00:07:58,390 --> 00:08:02,670 S1: you touched on what Jesus said around treasure, and he 136 00:08:02,710 --> 00:08:07,230 S1: often uses this image of treasure, our hearts functioning like chess, 137 00:08:07,230 --> 00:08:10,830 S1: filled with what we value most. How does that picture 138 00:08:10,870 --> 00:08:13,270 S1: help to shape the way we think about our giving? 139 00:08:13,390 --> 00:08:16,230 S2: Mm. A few different things. I think maybe three, if 140 00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:19,350 S2: I could list them that way. I think, first of all, 141 00:08:19,790 --> 00:08:23,190 S2: it means that, um, a lot of people assume that giving, 142 00:08:23,190 --> 00:08:26,270 S2: whether it's their time, their talents or their financial assets, 143 00:08:26,510 --> 00:08:30,630 S2: is about allocating resources. It's moving things around. And in 144 00:08:30,670 --> 00:08:33,070 S2: that sense, giving is a little bit detached from who 145 00:08:33,070 --> 00:08:35,510 S2: we are. But the first thing I would say is 146 00:08:35,510 --> 00:08:39,590 S2: that that's that's not true. Our giving is actually reflective 147 00:08:39,830 --> 00:08:43,949 S2: of our spiritual condition. And so how you give reflects 148 00:08:43,950 --> 00:08:46,710 S2: the health of your soul. So that's the first thing. 149 00:08:46,710 --> 00:08:50,670 S2: The second thing would be that this expands what our 150 00:08:50,670 --> 00:08:54,190 S2: view of giving is. So giving is not just financial 151 00:08:54,590 --> 00:08:58,110 S2: and keeping it in that kind of category can keep 152 00:08:58,110 --> 00:09:00,550 S2: us from growing. And all these sorts of other areas 153 00:09:00,550 --> 00:09:03,790 S2: of life. So the poor widow gave two mites. You know, 154 00:09:03,830 --> 00:09:08,430 S2: two small coins. But she didn't just give money when 155 00:09:08,429 --> 00:09:10,830 S2: she did that. She also was living a normal life, 156 00:09:10,830 --> 00:09:13,510 S2: just like you and I. And all throughout that day, 157 00:09:13,510 --> 00:09:17,230 S2: she gave herself in countless other ways. Maybe in acts 158 00:09:17,230 --> 00:09:22,430 S2: of kindness, maybe in parenting, maybe in carrying out household chores. 159 00:09:22,870 --> 00:09:25,630 S2: And so the point here is, giving is not just 160 00:09:25,630 --> 00:09:28,630 S2: something we do with our resources. It's something that we're 161 00:09:28,630 --> 00:09:32,030 S2: doing all the time. We just don't tend to put 162 00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:34,870 S2: that category on it. Uh, the third thing that I 163 00:09:34,870 --> 00:09:38,150 S2: would say is Jesus, by giving us this image of 164 00:09:38,150 --> 00:09:42,470 S2: the treasure chest, um, reinforces the truth that good fruit 165 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:46,309 S2: flows from good treasure. And so giving ourselves to others 166 00:09:46,350 --> 00:09:50,110 S2: is really not an external behavior. We may see other 167 00:09:50,110 --> 00:09:53,550 S2: people around us, you know, giving themselves, giving their treasures 168 00:09:53,550 --> 00:09:56,470 S2: and their time and their talent. But we don't know 169 00:09:56,470 --> 00:10:00,550 S2: why they're doing it. And Jesus says, that's really important. 170 00:10:00,550 --> 00:10:03,350 S2: We need to know why we're doing what we're doing. 171 00:10:04,190 --> 00:10:07,150 S2: The reason why you're doing what you're doing matters. And 172 00:10:07,150 --> 00:10:10,429 S2: Jesus says that your good fruit, you know, the good 173 00:10:10,429 --> 00:10:14,110 S2: actions that you take really need to flow from a 174 00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:16,510 S2: God centered heart. They need to flow from a heart 175 00:10:16,510 --> 00:10:21,030 S2: that is worshiping God, not just from a sense of, uh, 176 00:10:21,510 --> 00:10:22,630 S2: you know, obligation. 177 00:10:22,670 --> 00:10:26,430 S1: Yeah. And you really challenge readers in the article to 178 00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:30,469 S1: ask that question, why am I doing what I'm doing? 179 00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:33,309 S1: Why do you think that's so essential? What does that uncover? 180 00:10:33,550 --> 00:10:36,589 S2: I think if I can go back to David Poulson's, uh, 181 00:10:36,590 --> 00:10:39,870 S2: writing a little bit, um, I have a book that 182 00:10:39,870 --> 00:10:43,590 S2: I've edited by him coming out soon called Dissecting the Heart. Uh, 183 00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:46,390 S2: so it gets into all of this, but here's what 184 00:10:46,390 --> 00:10:50,230 S2: he says. Uh, just a short synopsis. He says the 185 00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:54,040 S2: the human heart, the answer to why we do what 186 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,800 S2: we do must be understood as an active verb. With 187 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,280 S2: respect to God. And the first time I read that, 188 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,760 S2: I thought, what is? What does that mean? Yeah. And 189 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,000 S2: he said, well, you're always choosing, right? You're always loving 190 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,160 S2: God or loving something else. You're always fearing God or 191 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,520 S2: fearing something else. You're always needing God or needing something 192 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,480 S2: else or always active. And so sometimes we can fall 193 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,800 S2: into this, uh, illusion of thinking that we're just kind 194 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,040 S2: of static, you know, we don't want one thing or 195 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,200 S2: one another. We're just kind of in the neutral zone. 196 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,600 S2: And that teaching, I think, shows. No, your heart is 197 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,480 S2: always chasing something. Yes, it's either chasing God or it's 198 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,520 S2: chasing something else. But there's there's no middle ground, there's 199 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,240 S2: no neutral territory. And so that has been helpful for 200 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,280 S2: me in understanding that I can ask myself at any 201 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,559 S2: given moment, what am I seeking most right now? What 202 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,240 S2: is my heart chasing after, and what should it be 203 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,680 S2: chasing after? Of course why? Why is my motive off? 204 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:55,760 S2: We can kind of do what the psalmist does when 205 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,959 S2: he questions his own heart and says, you know, why 206 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,200 S2: are you in turmoil within me? We can actually do 207 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,240 S2: that for ourselves when we notice that, hey, my motive 208 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,840 S2: here for doing what I'm doing is not worshipful. You know, 209 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,200 S2: it's not centered on on God. Um, and it's true 210 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,480 S2: that oftentimes our motives are selfish. And frankly, if I 211 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,440 S2: waited for my motives to be pure, I might not 212 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,000 S2: get much done. Yeah. Because I, I'm often, you know, 213 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,360 S2: struggling with, with sinful motives. So I praise God that 214 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,520 S2: he is willing to use me even when my motives 215 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,360 S2: are impure. And yet that doesn't give me a license 216 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,120 S2: to say, well, I don't need to check my motives. Um, 217 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,240 S2: his spirit is inviting me, you know, through through reading 218 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,559 S2: his word to check my motives and to be pushing 219 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,000 S2: my myself in certain ways to say, why am I 220 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,800 S2: doing this? What's my heart doing in this moment? 221 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,890 S1: Yeah. Wow. That is powerful. Uh, Unfortunately, we're getting short 222 00:12:52,929 --> 00:12:55,250 S1: on time here as we begin to wrap up here. 223 00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:59,690 S1: For listeners who really, genuinely want to cultivate godly motives 224 00:12:59,690 --> 00:13:02,410 S1: in their giving, where would you suggest they begin? 225 00:13:03,170 --> 00:13:06,209 S2: If you want to focus on godly motives for giving, I, 226 00:13:06,450 --> 00:13:10,929 S2: even though it sounds, uh, maybe obvious, really read Scripture, 227 00:13:10,929 --> 00:13:14,530 S2: especially the Gospels, and watch what Jesus does and how 228 00:13:14,530 --> 00:13:18,570 S2: he interacts with people. Uh, the story in Mark 12 229 00:13:18,929 --> 00:13:21,890 S2: of the Widow's Offering is a great place to begin. 230 00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:24,730 S2: So read that story. Um, and read it in the 231 00:13:24,730 --> 00:13:28,290 S2: parallel passages. Uh, for other people who are interested on 232 00:13:28,290 --> 00:13:31,410 S2: having a more expansive view of giving. Uh, you can 233 00:13:31,410 --> 00:13:33,569 S2: check out the Book of Giving that I wrote to 234 00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:37,569 S2: give a broader perspective on this. Um, throughout Scripture. 235 00:13:37,970 --> 00:13:40,929 S1: Excellent. Pierce. So thankful for your time today. I know 236 00:13:40,929 --> 00:13:44,450 S1: we just scratched the surface, but really thoughtful counsel for us, 237 00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:46,809 S1: and I know it's been an encouragement to those listening. 238 00:13:46,809 --> 00:13:47,690 S1: Thanks for being here. 239 00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:49,050 S2: Oh, thanks for having me. 240 00:13:49,530 --> 00:13:51,930 S1: That's Pierce Taylor Hibbs. He's the author of more than 241 00:13:51,929 --> 00:13:55,209 S1: 20 books on Christian living, including the one he just mentioned, 242 00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:57,810 S1: The Book of Giving How the God Who Gives Can 243 00:13:57,809 --> 00:14:01,569 S1: Make us givers. Back with your questions after this call 244 00:14:01,610 --> 00:14:06,010 S1: right now 800 525 7000. Stick around. 245 00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:19,810 S3: The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or 246 00:14:19,810 --> 00:14:24,250 S3: professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only. 247 00:14:24,410 --> 00:14:27,770 S3: Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from 248 00:14:27,770 --> 00:14:32,250 S3: a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your 249 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:33,770 S3: specific situation. 250 00:14:39,210 --> 00:14:40,890 S1: Great to have you with us today on Faith and 251 00:14:40,890 --> 00:14:43,650 S1: finance live. I'm Rob West, looking forward to taking your 252 00:14:43,650 --> 00:14:46,170 S1: calls and questions. The calls have already started coming in, 253 00:14:46,170 --> 00:14:49,290 S1: and that's great because the rest of the program is yours. 254 00:14:49,330 --> 00:14:51,650 S1: But we do have room for a few more. So 255 00:14:51,850 --> 00:14:54,290 S1: if you've got questions, we'd love to help you think 256 00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:59,090 S1: about your financial decisions and the issues you're facing today. 257 00:14:59,090 --> 00:15:01,690 S1: In light of biblical wisdom you can call right now. 258 00:15:01,730 --> 00:15:06,970 S1: Our team is standing by. The number is 800 525 7000. 259 00:15:07,010 --> 00:15:12,490 S1: That's 800 525 7000. You can call right now. A 260 00:15:12,490 --> 00:15:15,650 S1: lot going on in the news today. The S&P 500 261 00:15:15,690 --> 00:15:19,250 S1: at a new all time high. That's right. We're hitting 262 00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:22,010 S1: a new high on the one of the major indexes 263 00:15:22,010 --> 00:15:26,410 S1: here in the United States, largely based on earnings. You 264 00:15:26,410 --> 00:15:28,970 S1: know the market likes what it's seeing. The big tech 265 00:15:29,010 --> 00:15:34,250 S1: earnings are coming in really, really strong. And that's pushing 266 00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:38,250 S1: the broader market up. And so we'll certainly continue to 267 00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:42,170 S1: watch that. So far so good. Uh 80% of companies 268 00:15:42,170 --> 00:15:45,010 S1: are reporting this week or next week. So this is 269 00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:47,250 S1: a huge couple of weeks here for the market just 270 00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:50,980 S1: to get a pulse on how businesses are doing. And 271 00:15:50,980 --> 00:15:54,220 S1: that of course translates into where our economy is headed. 272 00:15:54,620 --> 00:16:00,020 S1: The Federal Reserve also released its latest interest rate decision tomorrow, 273 00:16:00,020 --> 00:16:03,580 S1: and so we'll keep eyes on that for sure. Most 274 00:16:03,620 --> 00:16:06,540 S1: economists thinking they will sit tight for the time being, 275 00:16:06,540 --> 00:16:10,660 S1: continue to watch this economy, watch inflation, not expecting anything 276 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:13,180 S1: in terms of moves one way or the other. But 277 00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:18,740 S1: the all important comments will be, uh, much anticipated as 278 00:16:18,740 --> 00:16:21,940 S1: the fed meets tomorrow. In the news today, Congress is 279 00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:26,900 S1: advancing bipartisan efforts to make canceling subscriptions as simple as 280 00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:31,540 S1: signing up. The House is newly introduced. Unsubscribe act mirrors 281 00:16:31,580 --> 00:16:35,220 S1: a Senate bill and would require companies to offer easy 282 00:16:35,260 --> 00:16:40,100 S1: cancellations and get consent before charging after free trials. The 283 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:44,460 S1: measure joins earlier proposals aimed at restoring an FTC click 284 00:16:44,460 --> 00:16:48,220 S1: to cancel rule that was struck down on procedural grounds 285 00:16:48,220 --> 00:16:52,420 S1: before it took effect in 2024. Now, states are also acting. 286 00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:56,620 S1: More than half now have laws targeting difficult to cancel 287 00:16:56,660 --> 00:17:00,940 S1: negative option subscriptions where you have to opt out. Complaints 288 00:17:00,940 --> 00:17:05,500 S1: about these services have grown as automatic renewals become more common. 289 00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:10,540 S1: US adults spend on average nearly $1,100 a year on subscriptions, 290 00:17:10,540 --> 00:17:14,459 S1: and that includes about $200 for unused ones. Things we 291 00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:17,859 S1: aren't even using paying $200 a year for. That's according 292 00:17:17,859 --> 00:17:20,940 S1: to a 2025 survey. Although the fate of the federal 293 00:17:20,940 --> 00:17:26,100 S1: rules is uncertain, the FTC is still challenging cancellation practices 294 00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:30,980 S1: through other authorities reaching major settlements with companies including Amazon. 295 00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:36,900 S1: Whether Congress ultimately passes the Unsubscribe Act remains unclear. For 296 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:41,340 S1: Christ followers, you know, this highlights the value of tracking spending, 297 00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:47,580 S1: pruning unused services, and stewarding resources wisely so our money 298 00:17:47,580 --> 00:17:50,979 S1: can be freed to serve greater purposes. By the way, 299 00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:53,179 S1: if you need help with that, one way to make 300 00:17:53,220 --> 00:17:56,420 S1: sure you're not spending money on things you don't intend 301 00:17:56,420 --> 00:18:00,060 S1: to is to have a system to track that. And 302 00:18:00,060 --> 00:18:03,100 S1: the Faith VI app could be a huge resource there. Uh, 303 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:08,660 S1: we are launching our brand new major upgrade, uh, and 304 00:18:08,660 --> 00:18:11,220 S1: update to the Faith VI app here in the next week. 305 00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:15,900 S1: Faith 55.0. It's incredible. I'm running the beta on it 306 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:18,699 S1: as the team is working with our beta users to 307 00:18:18,740 --> 00:18:22,060 S1: get feedback, but it is amazing it's been rebuilt from 308 00:18:22,060 --> 00:18:25,180 S1: the ground up. It is just like it has been 309 00:18:25,180 --> 00:18:28,659 S1: secure and simple, but it's got a brand new user interface. 310 00:18:28,660 --> 00:18:31,980 S1: It's beautiful. All of our content from our Faithful Steward 311 00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:35,540 S1: magazine now comes into the app, uh, daily, weekly and 312 00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:39,500 S1: monthly rhythms that blend your money management with your heart 313 00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:43,980 S1: and your spiritual journey with short, uh, smartphone driven devotionals 314 00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:47,990 S1: and thoughts and prayers. It really is a stewardship ecosystem 315 00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:50,830 S1: on your phone and we're so thrilled about it. I 316 00:18:50,830 --> 00:18:52,669 S1: can't wait for you to see it. One way to 317 00:18:52,670 --> 00:18:54,590 S1: be ready for that update is to go ahead and 318 00:18:54,590 --> 00:18:57,590 S1: download the app right now and get it on your phone, 319 00:18:57,590 --> 00:19:00,230 S1: and then as soon as that update releases, your app 320 00:19:00,230 --> 00:19:02,629 S1: will upgrade and you will be able to experience all 321 00:19:02,670 --> 00:19:05,869 S1: the new that is in phase 55.0. It's coming out 322 00:19:05,869 --> 00:19:08,310 S1: very soon. Just head to your app store and search 323 00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:11,950 S1: for Faith vie or go to our website faith. Com 324 00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:13,790 S1: click app at the top of the page and you 325 00:19:13,790 --> 00:19:16,030 S1: can get started. All right, we're ready to dive into 326 00:19:16,030 --> 00:19:18,510 S1: your questions today. The lines are filling up. So we're 327 00:19:18,510 --> 00:19:23,510 S1: going to start in Minnesota Wayne go ahead. Hello. Hi there. 328 00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:24,350 S1: How can I help you? 329 00:19:25,109 --> 00:19:30,310 S4: Yes I had a question, um, about, um, some investing 330 00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:35,590 S4: I recently inherited from my parents, and, um, had some 331 00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:40,909 S4: money put away prior to that total would be about 600,000. 332 00:19:41,710 --> 00:19:46,350 S4: And currently just have it in a money market, which 333 00:19:47,070 --> 00:19:52,750 S4: is at 3.1%. And I know there's other opportunities out 334 00:19:52,750 --> 00:19:55,190 S4: there that would be more than that. I'm looking at 335 00:19:55,390 --> 00:20:00,379 S4: probably a 5 to 7 year investment, retiring at 65 336 00:20:00,380 --> 00:20:02,830 S4: in 5 years. Yeah. 337 00:20:02,869 --> 00:20:06,710 S1: Yeah. Excellent. Well, what a blessing this is. And now 338 00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:08,909 S1: you're the steward of these resources. So I love that 339 00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:11,510 S1: you're seeking some wise counsel and thinking about the best 340 00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:15,230 S1: way to handle this. It's important to note, you know, 341 00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:18,150 S1: your time horizon of 5 to 7 years until retirement. 342 00:20:18,150 --> 00:20:21,190 S1: But I think it's also important to note that, you know, 343 00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:24,350 S1: we don't cease to need our money growing at that 344 00:20:24,350 --> 00:20:28,870 S1: point because of inflation and the loss of purchasing power. 345 00:20:29,109 --> 00:20:31,630 S1: Although you want to get more conservative as you near 346 00:20:31,670 --> 00:20:35,869 S1: retirement and transition into retirement because you move from a 347 00:20:35,910 --> 00:20:41,190 S1: capital accumulation phase to a capital preservation and distribution phase 348 00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:44,630 S1: as you start to draw it out, perhaps to supplement 349 00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:47,230 S1: your income, unless you're in a position where that's covered 350 00:20:47,230 --> 00:20:49,430 S1: and you can just let it continue to grow. But 351 00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:52,550 S1: the idea is that, you know, even at 60, we 352 00:20:52,550 --> 00:20:55,310 S1: need to be ready for 3 to 4 more decades. 353 00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:58,669 S1: Should the Lord, uh, you know, choose to, uh, leave 354 00:20:58,670 --> 00:21:00,790 S1: you here? Uh, none of us know the day or 355 00:21:00,790 --> 00:21:02,830 S1: the hour he will call us home. But people are 356 00:21:02,830 --> 00:21:05,030 S1: living longer. And so I think we need to still 357 00:21:05,030 --> 00:21:07,950 S1: take a long time horizon with this money. Even when 358 00:21:07,950 --> 00:21:10,350 S1: you reach retirement, you know the very best thing to do, 359 00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:14,710 S1: especially with a sum of money like you're talking about 600,000, 360 00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:18,310 S1: is probably to find an advisor, the right advisor to you, 361 00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:21,629 S1: that could come alongside you and help you with some planning. 362 00:21:21,670 --> 00:21:25,230 S1: Think through the right investment mix and really take over 363 00:21:25,230 --> 00:21:29,670 S1: the management of these resources. We'd recommend a certified Kingdom advisor. 364 00:21:29,710 --> 00:21:32,390 S1: Maybe you interview 2 or 3 in Minnesota, you could 365 00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:35,630 S1: go to find Naca.com. I'm going to take a break, 366 00:21:35,630 --> 00:21:37,790 S1: but let's talk more in just a moment. We'll be 367 00:21:37,790 --> 00:21:38,430 S1: right back. 368 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,040 S5: Great to have you with us today on Faith. 369 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,800 S1: And finance live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West. 370 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,200 S1: We're taking your calls and questions today. We've got some 371 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,560 S1: lines open, just three of them, in fact, 805 two, five, 7000. Uh, 372 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,120 S1: before the break, we were talking to Wayne in Minnesota. 373 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,159 S1: He's 60, recently received an inheritance from his parents trust 374 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,040 S1: of about $600,000. Looking for the best way to invest 375 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,200 S1: this lump sum. He's about 5 to 7 years away 376 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,160 S1: from retirement. And, uh, I had shared I think this 377 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,639 S1: is a great opportunity if you don't already have one, Wayne, 378 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,600 S1: to get an advisor, someone to come alongside you and 379 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,880 S1: help you think through this, manage it for you. Certainly 380 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,239 S1: you can do it yourself. I just think, you know, 381 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,080 S1: especially when we've got a significant sum of money, having 382 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,600 S1: somebody who can take more of a rules based approach 383 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,720 S1: and not react emotionally when the market moves up and 384 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,159 S1: down and really just take active, uh, active management approach 385 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,440 S1: to it is probably a good thing. You know, generally speaking, 386 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,160 S1: at 60, you know, you're probably going to want to 387 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,520 S1: have somewhere around a 5050 portfolio 50 towards stocks, even 388 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,760 S1: though within those stocks you could be still diversified. You 389 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,520 S1: may have some dividend paying stocks, maybe a a smaller 390 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,439 S1: allocation of growth stocks. And then for the other 50%, 391 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,880 S1: I would call that your fixed income bucket, which could 392 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,520 S1: not only have, you know, short term and medium term bonds, 393 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,600 S1: corporate bonds, you could have some US treasuries. You could 394 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,280 S1: even have, you know, some CDs or money market. You 395 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,000 S1: could even put your gold allocation in there of, you know, 396 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,160 S1: let's say 5%. So that would be a typical portfolio 397 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,080 S1: at 60 years old. Now you can obviously dial it, 398 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,800 S1: you know, down more conservative and increase the bond exposure. 399 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,480 S1: You can make it a little more aggressive. Again, to 400 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,080 S1: my point with, you know, people living longer, but you know, 401 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,520 S1: that would be a typical allocation. But give me your 402 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:36,479 S1: thoughts on all that. 403 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,720 S4: I think that's good advice. I, I just um, yeah, 404 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,919 S4: one of the things I'm considering is I have a 405 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:51,680 S4: home loan at 6.5% interest. Um, and I'm considering maybe 406 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,920 S4: buying that down a little bit with the refi and 407 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,800 S4: making sure that my payment is manageable upon retirement, which 408 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,639 S4: I think it would be where it's currently at. But, um, yeah, I, 409 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,400 S4: I'll have a pension of about 3000 when I retire 410 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,040 S4: and plus Social Security over 2000. And I didn't mention 411 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,960 S4: I have, um, some land that I receive cash rent 412 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:26,560 S4: from at about 14,000 a year. So I okay my 413 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:32,679 S4: finances and the entire 600,000 isn't, um, all inherited money. 414 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,160 S4: I did have about a third of that, a little 415 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,360 S4: over a third of that saved prior to the to 416 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:45,770 S4: the trust. So, um, I've lived pretty frugal and done. 417 00:24:45,770 --> 00:24:50,130 S4: Done saving. But I'm just. Yeah, just trying to figure 418 00:24:50,130 --> 00:24:53,609 S4: out the best route to go for financial planning, for 419 00:24:53,609 --> 00:24:56,810 S4: the future. For not just me, but for my kids. 420 00:24:56,850 --> 00:25:00,409 S4: You know, I, I don't plan on selling the land. I, 421 00:25:00,890 --> 00:25:05,290 S4: I plan on passing that down to for generation. Yeah. 422 00:25:05,330 --> 00:25:09,050 S4: Purposes and and, uh, yeah. Just kind of trying to 423 00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:10,650 S4: look at some different avenues. 424 00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:13,330 S1: I like that a lot. Let's talk about that mortgage 425 00:25:13,330 --> 00:25:16,250 S1: for a second. You said you're over 6% on the 426 00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:21,609 S1: interest rate. What do you owe on that property? 225 okay. 427 00:25:22,010 --> 00:25:25,210 S1: And that's the property you would pass down or that's 428 00:25:25,210 --> 00:25:26,170 S1: a separate property. 429 00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:30,250 S4: No, that's that's my home loan. Got it. Plus the 430 00:25:30,250 --> 00:25:35,050 S4: property that I own, um, is 80 acres, which is 431 00:25:35,050 --> 00:25:40,130 S4: worth another over 600,000. So. Yeah. Okay. But I have 432 00:25:40,130 --> 00:25:43,369 S4: no intentions. No intentions on selling that. 433 00:25:43,410 --> 00:25:46,250 S1: Yeah, yeah. The challenge right now is, you know, you've 434 00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:50,330 S1: got 30 year rates at 6.2, 6.3. Somewhere around there 435 00:25:50,330 --> 00:25:55,210 S1: you've got 15 year rates at 5.6, 5.7. So you really, 436 00:25:55,250 --> 00:25:57,690 S1: you know, aren't going to do much better, especially if 437 00:25:57,690 --> 00:26:00,689 S1: you reset it at a new 30 years. Um, you know, 438 00:26:00,730 --> 00:26:03,530 S1: you've got all the costs associated with it. So, you know, 439 00:26:03,570 --> 00:26:07,050 S1: even if you paid it down, you know, to 100,000 440 00:26:07,090 --> 00:26:10,540 S1: or something, um, you know, you would have 3 to 441 00:26:10,540 --> 00:26:13,650 S1: $5000 worth of closing costs in that, and you're really 442 00:26:13,650 --> 00:26:15,690 S1: not going to save any in the interest. So that's 443 00:26:15,690 --> 00:26:18,210 S1: going to end up costing you something. Even though I 444 00:26:18,210 --> 00:26:20,489 S1: like the idea that you would, you know, be to 445 00:26:20,530 --> 00:26:24,610 S1: a place where that mortgage payment either is lower so 446 00:26:24,609 --> 00:26:28,010 S1: it's more manageable in retirement or it's gone. So I 447 00:26:28,010 --> 00:26:31,330 S1: think one option would be to say, well, maybe I 448 00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:34,610 S1: during my working years, for the next 5 to 7 years, 449 00:26:34,890 --> 00:26:38,530 S1: try out of surplus cash flow to just do whatever 450 00:26:38,530 --> 00:26:42,090 S1: you can to pay against principal, you know, continue to 451 00:26:42,090 --> 00:26:46,690 S1: invest a little more aggressively. I mean, you'd still want 452 00:26:46,690 --> 00:26:48,770 S1: to be, you know, have some allocation to bonds. I'm 453 00:26:48,770 --> 00:26:51,050 S1: not saying you throw caution to the wind at age 60, 454 00:26:51,090 --> 00:26:53,930 S1: but during your working years, you could be slightly more 455 00:26:53,930 --> 00:26:57,929 S1: aggressive and hopefully, you know, have a portfolio that does 456 00:26:57,930 --> 00:27:01,290 S1: better than 6%, you know, over the next 5 to 457 00:27:01,290 --> 00:27:04,930 S1: 7 years. And then perhaps whatever that balance is that 458 00:27:04,930 --> 00:27:08,290 S1: remains when you get to retirement, maybe you just go 459 00:27:08,290 --> 00:27:11,250 S1: in and wipe that out, um, knowing that you're going 460 00:27:11,290 --> 00:27:14,609 S1: to get even more conservative. And so perhaps, you know, 461 00:27:14,930 --> 00:27:18,370 S1: the guaranteed six plus percent return of paying off that 462 00:27:18,369 --> 00:27:23,730 S1: mortgage would outpace a more conservatively invested portfolio as you 463 00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:26,290 S1: transition into retirement. Does that make sense? 464 00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:27,930 S4: Yes it does. 465 00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:30,570 S1: Okay. So I think the key right now is let's 466 00:27:30,570 --> 00:27:33,330 S1: keep saving. Let's try to pay down principal. Let's find 467 00:27:33,330 --> 00:27:35,929 S1: an advisor that can take over, you know, helping you 468 00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:39,929 S1: build that portfolio and manage it. Uh, you're already living modestly. 469 00:27:39,930 --> 00:27:41,860 S1: And so that's great. And it sounds like you're going 470 00:27:41,859 --> 00:27:45,220 S1: to have some great income sources when you get to retirement, 471 00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:48,820 S1: which is good. Plus whatever this 600,000 grows to over 472 00:27:48,859 --> 00:27:51,940 S1: the next 5 to 7 years before you might start 473 00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:54,820 S1: withdrawing on it. So if you need a few advisors 474 00:27:54,820 --> 00:27:57,460 S1: to interview to, to perhaps find one that's a good fit, 475 00:27:57,740 --> 00:28:01,940 S1: just head to our website, find a com and you 476 00:28:01,940 --> 00:28:04,260 S1: could do a zip code search there. Uh, Wayne, we 477 00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:06,899 S1: appreciate your call. If we can help further with anything, 478 00:28:06,940 --> 00:28:10,460 S1: don't hesitate to reach out. Lord bless you. Uh, to Missouri. Hi, Judy. 479 00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:11,020 S1: Go ahead. 480 00:28:12,220 --> 00:28:18,740 S6: Hi. I have a question about, um, rolling over a 481 00:28:18,740 --> 00:28:27,620 S6: pension into an IRA or an annuity. I have spoken with, um, 482 00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:35,100 S6: someone over the phone. An advisor, uh, that's local. And he. 483 00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:41,940 S6: He's very adamant about us rolling it over into an annuity, 484 00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:45,620 S6: and I really don't understand a lot about that. Sure, 485 00:28:45,660 --> 00:28:50,500 S6: I was more leaning to a traditional IRA, and we 486 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:53,780 S6: have approximately about 425,000. 487 00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:58,340 S1: Mhm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, if you were 488 00:28:58,340 --> 00:29:00,780 S1: to roll it into an annuity, I mean that would 489 00:29:00,780 --> 00:29:04,340 S1: give you potentially if you what's called annuitize that you 490 00:29:04,340 --> 00:29:07,780 S1: could convert that to monthly income for life with no 491 00:29:07,780 --> 00:29:10,340 S1: market risk. And you would want to make sure you 492 00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:13,220 S1: have spousal survivor benefits on that, which is going to 493 00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:15,940 S1: reduce the monthly amount you would get. And it kind 494 00:29:15,940 --> 00:29:18,620 S1: of takes the guesswork out. The problem with that is 495 00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:23,219 S1: there's no flexibility. You lose access to the principal, at 496 00:29:23,260 --> 00:29:27,940 S1: least the majority of it. There's usually no inflation adjustment. 497 00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:31,180 S1: And then, you know, the the income goes away either 498 00:29:31,180 --> 00:29:34,300 S1: with one spouse or if it includes survivor's benefits with 499 00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:39,500 S1: when both when both spouses pass away. Um, the IRA 500 00:29:39,620 --> 00:29:43,420 S1: to your point, gives you more control and flexibility because 501 00:29:43,420 --> 00:29:45,500 S1: you have full control over the investments. You have the 502 00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:49,260 S1: ability to adjust withdrawals as you need to. You can 503 00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:52,380 S1: pass the remaining balance onto heirs or give it away. 504 00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:56,140 S1: And then you can coordinate with Social Security and other income. 505 00:29:56,140 --> 00:29:59,460 S1: But you are assuming some of the risk. Now, you know, 506 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:02,260 S1: if if you go into an annuity, I mean you 507 00:30:02,260 --> 00:30:04,940 S1: just have to look at am I getting objective counsel? 508 00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:07,940 S1: I'm not saying this person is only recommending this because 509 00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:10,700 S1: of the commission, but it's something to consider because there's 510 00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:14,060 S1: usually a pretty big payout for somebody when they set 511 00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:17,020 S1: up an annuity. It could be five, six, 7%. So 512 00:30:17,140 --> 00:30:19,060 S1: I just want to make sure that you're doing the 513 00:30:19,060 --> 00:30:22,140 S1: thing that's right for you all. If your goal is 514 00:30:22,140 --> 00:30:26,860 S1: to ultimately just minimize risk, then an annuity could play 515 00:30:26,860 --> 00:30:29,740 S1: a part. Um, but I think you give up a lot, 516 00:30:29,740 --> 00:30:31,820 S1: and I just want to make sure you understand that. 517 00:30:31,820 --> 00:30:34,100 S1: Let's talk a bit more about this right after this break. 518 00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:34,820 S1: Stay with us. 519 00:30:40,390 --> 00:30:41,830 S5: So glad you've joined us today for. 520 00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:44,190 S1: Faith and Finance live. Before the break, we were talking 521 00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:47,950 S1: to Judy in Missouri. Her husband recently retired early. He 522 00:30:47,950 --> 00:30:51,350 S1: has a union pension and they were thinking about rolling 523 00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:53,710 S1: it into an IRA. But they've talked to an advisor 524 00:30:53,710 --> 00:30:57,190 S1: who's adamant that they should roll it into an annuity. 525 00:30:57,230 --> 00:31:00,550 S1: She's wondering the best option. And normally, Judy, this would 526 00:31:00,550 --> 00:31:05,550 S1: come down to what income sources will you have in retirement? 527 00:31:05,910 --> 00:31:11,270 S1: And are you really concerned about market movement and would 528 00:31:11,270 --> 00:31:15,310 S1: therefore have a lot less, you know, perhaps anxiety by 529 00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:19,030 S1: just having a monthly check for life that would come 530 00:31:19,030 --> 00:31:23,350 S1: from the annuity with guarantees. Uh, you know, versus you 531 00:31:23,390 --> 00:31:26,390 S1: watching the market move up and down, even though that 532 00:31:26,390 --> 00:31:29,070 S1: would also give you more liquidity and access to the 533 00:31:29,070 --> 00:31:32,110 S1: principal and the ability to leave it to your heirs. 534 00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:34,150 S1: Does that make sense in terms of kind of the 535 00:31:34,150 --> 00:31:35,030 S1: decision here? 536 00:31:36,270 --> 00:31:41,990 S6: Yes. Uh, One of our main concerns was leaving. Um, 537 00:31:43,910 --> 00:31:47,590 S6: we we wouldn't even anything that we would draw from. 538 00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:50,670 S6: It isn't money that we actually need. So we were 539 00:31:50,670 --> 00:31:53,790 S6: looking more of leaving it to our children. 540 00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:58,230 S1: Yeah. Then you don't want an annuity because, um, you know, 541 00:31:58,270 --> 00:32:02,110 S1: if you've already got your income covered, that's going to 542 00:32:02,110 --> 00:32:05,350 S1: cover your expenses, then really, you want the ability to 543 00:32:05,390 --> 00:32:09,030 S1: leave this money to your heirs. You want access to 544 00:32:09,070 --> 00:32:11,310 S1: the principal if you were to need it. Along the way, 545 00:32:11,310 --> 00:32:15,110 S1: something unexpected comes, like long term care needs or something 546 00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:19,470 S1: that's well beyond what you were planning in terms of expenses. Um, 547 00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:22,870 S1: and you can manage the risk that you're taking by just, 548 00:32:22,910 --> 00:32:25,990 S1: you know, not being more aggressive than you're comfortable with. 549 00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:28,430 S1: So I think for that reason, the IRA was the 550 00:32:28,430 --> 00:32:31,110 S1: way to go that you were already leaning. It sounds 551 00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:34,750 S1: like there's no need for the annuity. And the annuity, frankly, 552 00:32:34,750 --> 00:32:37,840 S1: wouldn't accomplish your objectives if you really want to just 553 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,480 S1: preserve this and be able to pass it on. Um, anyway, 554 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,800 S1: so what I would do is probably reach out to 555 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,840 S1: a couple of other advisors. You could look for a 556 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,320 S1: certified Kingdom advisor there in Missouri by going to find HK. 557 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,880 S1: Com but ultimately you're looking for an advisor who could 558 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,120 S1: set up an IRA, and then you would roll the 559 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,600 S1: the pension into the IRA. And then that advisor, after 560 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,640 S1: doing quite a bit of discovery and planning with the 561 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,840 S1: two of you, would take over the management of those assets. 562 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:08,240 S6: Okay. 563 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:09,840 S1: Okay. 564 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:16,160 S6: Okay. Yeah. Um, that sounds great. Thank you so much. 565 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:17,440 S5: You are so welcome, Judy. 566 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,200 S1: If we can help you further along the way, don't 567 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:20,880 S1: hesitate to reach out. Stay on the line. I want 568 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,680 S1: to send you a book called An Uncommon Retirement. That'll 569 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,520 S1: give you and your husband a little, um, I think 570 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,200 S1: just a a wonderful look at a biblical approach to 571 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,400 S1: this next season of life. That might be an encouragement 572 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,640 S1: to you. Uh, let's head to Indianapolis. Dan, go ahead. 573 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,560 S7: Taking my call. I'm calling about a donor advised fund 574 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,200 S7: and a qualified charitable distribution. Uh, is it correct that 575 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,960 S7: an IRA qualified charitable distribution can only be used in 576 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,960 S7: conjunction with a traditional IRA? 577 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,360 S1: That is correct, yes. A qualified charitable distribution is the 578 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,840 S1: means by which you get money out of an IRA, 579 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,960 S1: and it is limited to an IRA. It doesn't apply 580 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,040 S1: to a 401 K, for instance, uh, where the money 581 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:09,120 S1: goes straight from the IRA custodian to the 500 1C3 charity, the, uh, 582 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,480 S1: not for profit. And in doing so, as long as 583 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,520 S1: you're at least 70.5, you can get that money out 584 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,239 S1: of the IRA without ever paying any tax on it, 585 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,400 S1: which is a huge benefit because it allows you to 586 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,320 S1: get more money to the ministry or the charity. 587 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,120 S7: Okay, so I recently left an employer, um, and it's 588 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,080 S7: in a 401 K now. So in order to use 589 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,479 S7: this uh, QCD I would need to change that over 590 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:37,320 S7: to an IRA. 591 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,000 S1: That is correct. You'd have to roll that out of 592 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,400 S1: the 401 K into the IRA. And then once it 593 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,279 S1: was in the IRA, so long as you're 70.5, then 594 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,440 S1: you would contact your custodian wherever that IRA is housed, 595 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,960 S1: whoever sends you your statements and tell them you want 596 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,080 S1: to do a qualified charitable distribution, you won't ever touch 597 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,840 S1: the money. It'll go straight to the ministry or the charity. Now, 598 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,600 S1: you asked about the distinction with a donor advised fund. 599 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,200 S1: A donor advised fund. Think of it like a charitable 600 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,120 S1: checking account. You make a contribution to the donor advised fund. 601 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,000 S1: You get the tax deduction because you've essentially relinquished control 602 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,880 S1: to the donor advised fund sponsor. But they don't initiate 603 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,080 S1: any of their own decision making on where the money goes. 604 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,839 S1: When it leaves the donor advised fund, they wait for 605 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,319 S1: the recommendations, the grant requests from the person that put 606 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,839 S1: the money in. And and then when you make the recommendation, 607 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,450 S1: they release the funds and send it on. Um, I 608 00:35:35,489 --> 00:35:39,570 S1: will clarify, though, that the donor advised fund is not 609 00:35:39,570 --> 00:35:44,250 S1: an eligible recipient for a qualified charitable distribution. So even 610 00:35:44,290 --> 00:35:48,089 S1: though when you put money in it is a charitable contribution, 611 00:35:48,410 --> 00:35:50,810 S1: uh qcds are not allowed to go into a donor 612 00:35:50,810 --> 00:35:53,170 S1: advised fund. They have to go direct to the charity. 613 00:35:54,370 --> 00:35:56,609 S7: Who had set up the donor advised fund, or how 614 00:35:56,610 --> 00:35:57,610 S7: would that be set up? 615 00:35:58,090 --> 00:35:58,969 S5: You would set it. 616 00:35:58,969 --> 00:36:01,690 S1: Up and you can do it in just a few moments. Um, 617 00:36:01,690 --> 00:36:04,569 S1: I would recommend the National Christian Foundation. You'll go to 618 00:36:04,610 --> 00:36:09,469 S1: NC comm, you click open a Giving Fund, and three 619 00:36:09,469 --> 00:36:12,690 S1: minutes later you'll have your own donor advised fund. Um, 620 00:36:12,730 --> 00:36:16,970 S1: it's important for in my, uh, recommendation is to work 621 00:36:16,969 --> 00:36:20,290 S1: with a Christian organization who is a donor advised fund sponsor, 622 00:36:20,290 --> 00:36:24,330 S1: because even though the IRS allows the donor advised funds 623 00:36:24,489 --> 00:36:28,490 S1: to be released to any 500 1C3, the donor advised 624 00:36:28,489 --> 00:36:32,010 S1: fund sponsor can set their own rules as to which 625 00:36:32,250 --> 00:36:35,890 S1: ministries or charities qualify and which don't. And so that's 626 00:36:35,890 --> 00:36:38,689 S1: why being with a, you know, a donor advised fund 627 00:36:38,690 --> 00:36:42,250 S1: sponsor like the National Christian Foundation will ensure nobody's ever 628 00:36:42,250 --> 00:36:45,770 S1: going to stop you from giving to a Christian ministry. Um, 629 00:36:45,770 --> 00:36:49,890 S1: so again, that website. Com and once you have it open, 630 00:36:49,890 --> 00:36:53,890 S1: you can fund it with cash, stocks, assets, pretty much 631 00:36:53,890 --> 00:36:54,850 S1: anything you want. 632 00:36:55,570 --> 00:36:57,290 S7: Okay. And then of course if you if you funded 633 00:36:57,290 --> 00:36:59,250 S7: it with stocks and they would when you want to 634 00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:01,049 S7: do something, they would have to sell to sell the stock. 635 00:37:01,050 --> 00:37:03,290 S7: And then you would you would send that money on. 636 00:37:03,530 --> 00:37:04,250 S5: That's exactly. 637 00:37:04,250 --> 00:37:07,009 S1: Right. And if you put cash in there, or even 638 00:37:07,010 --> 00:37:09,770 S1: if you put a single position of a stock and 639 00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:12,370 S1: you liquidate it, if you're not going to distribute it 640 00:37:12,370 --> 00:37:16,010 S1: right away, you can actually invest it inside the donor 641 00:37:16,010 --> 00:37:18,690 S1: advised fund. In the case of NCF, they've got model 642 00:37:18,690 --> 00:37:21,690 S1: portfolios that you can select from, and any kind of 643 00:37:21,730 --> 00:37:25,609 S1: investment returns just increase the value of the donor advised fund. 644 00:37:25,610 --> 00:37:27,730 S1: You can't take the money out, but it just ends 645 00:37:27,730 --> 00:37:29,210 S1: up giving you more to give away. 646 00:37:30,489 --> 00:37:34,650 S7: Are there other other comparable organizations like National Christian Foundation. 647 00:37:35,170 --> 00:37:37,489 S1: Um, you know, the I mean, there's a lot of 648 00:37:37,489 --> 00:37:41,410 S1: big players in the space like fidelity charitable and others. 649 00:37:41,410 --> 00:37:45,170 S1: But in terms of, uh, of Christian donor advised fund sponsors, 650 00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:48,930 S1: NCF is the most recognizable and largest by far. 651 00:37:50,370 --> 00:37:55,049 S7: Okay, okay. So is there. So basically the QCD, that's 652 00:37:55,050 --> 00:37:56,890 S7: just money that's going to come out of a, out 653 00:37:56,890 --> 00:37:59,609 S7: of a, out of a traditional IRA. But the donor 654 00:37:59,610 --> 00:38:02,850 S7: advised fund. Does it give me more flexibility in terms 655 00:38:02,850 --> 00:38:05,930 S7: of what I do it. 656 00:38:06,010 --> 00:38:10,129 S1: No, because the the QCD can go to any 500 1C3, 657 00:38:10,170 --> 00:38:13,090 S1: just like a donor advised fund can. The difference is 658 00:38:13,450 --> 00:38:17,210 S1: the assets in the IRA. The only way to get 659 00:38:17,210 --> 00:38:21,050 S1: those out without you adding the the distribution to your 660 00:38:21,290 --> 00:38:24,529 S1: taxable income for the year is to do a QCD. 661 00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:27,730 S1: The donor advised fund is not going to have any 662 00:38:27,730 --> 00:38:30,810 S1: connection to your IRA whatsoever. That's going to have to 663 00:38:30,810 --> 00:38:35,460 S1: be funded with other assets already, you know, outside of 664 00:38:35,460 --> 00:38:38,660 S1: a retirement account. So if you have cash or a 665 00:38:38,660 --> 00:38:41,859 S1: taxable stock, something like that, that's what would go into 666 00:38:41,860 --> 00:38:44,739 S1: the donor advised fund. Um, you would not be able 667 00:38:44,739 --> 00:38:46,939 S1: to take it straight from the IRA into the donor 668 00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:50,300 S1: advised fund. You'd have to take a withdrawal or a distribution, 669 00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:53,100 S1: recognize it as income and then make a contribution. 670 00:38:53,780 --> 00:38:56,180 S7: Yeah. So I guess some of it then kind of 671 00:38:56,180 --> 00:38:57,940 S7: boils down to where your money is. If it's in 672 00:38:57,940 --> 00:39:00,380 S7: an IRA, then it's better to go to with the 673 00:39:00,380 --> 00:39:01,979 S7: QCD route. So that's. 674 00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:03,380 S1: Exactly right. Yep. 675 00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:06,700 S7: Okay. And thank you much. That helps me sort between 676 00:39:06,700 --> 00:39:08,900 S7: the two as I move ahead on, uh, you know, 677 00:39:08,940 --> 00:39:10,260 S7: dealing with some of these things. 678 00:39:10,460 --> 00:39:13,339 S1: Excellent. Thanks, Dan. We appreciate your call today. Uh, let's 679 00:39:13,340 --> 00:39:16,380 S1: head to Illinois quickly to, uh, Linda. Go ahead. 680 00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:22,540 S8: Hello. Um, God has placed in my heart to start 681 00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:25,460 S8: for over a decade to start a Christian elementary school 682 00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:29,860 S8: for average and above students in low income families. And 683 00:39:29,860 --> 00:39:32,780 S8: I believe God has prepared me to do this because 684 00:39:32,780 --> 00:39:36,660 S8: I have a master's in school leadership and a type 685 00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:41,779 S8: 75 certificate, which entitles me to be an elementary school principal. 686 00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:46,700 S8: So my question is, what is the process for getting 687 00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:50,700 S8: this done through charitable contributions. 688 00:39:51,020 --> 00:39:56,140 S1: Mhm. Yeah. Um good question. I love the way you're thinking. 689 00:39:56,380 --> 00:39:59,259 S1: And it's a great calling that you've identified. I love 690 00:39:59,260 --> 00:40:02,460 S1: the fact that you've already got some education and credentials 691 00:40:02,460 --> 00:40:04,420 S1: that are going to give you a good base of 692 00:40:04,420 --> 00:40:07,580 S1: knowledge here. Uh, typically what you would do first is 693 00:40:07,580 --> 00:40:11,180 S1: you would form the legal entity, uh, so that starts 694 00:40:11,180 --> 00:40:15,500 S1: by you just incorporating in your state articles of incorporation, 695 00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,899 S1: I would recommend you'd get an attorney to help you 696 00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:22,420 S1: do that filing with your state. You'd apply for the Ein, 697 00:40:22,460 --> 00:40:25,700 S1: the employee identification number, and then it gets a little 698 00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:30,220 S1: more difficult. Um, just in terms of the complexity with 699 00:40:30,219 --> 00:40:32,660 S1: step three, which is to file for what's called the 700 00:40:32,660 --> 00:40:38,500 S1: 500 1C3 tax exempt status with the IRS. Um, usually 701 00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:40,700 S1: I recommend and we're in the process of doing this 702 00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:43,540 S1: right now at Kingdom Advisors, we're kind of spinning off 703 00:40:43,540 --> 00:40:46,739 S1: another organization. And so we've, you know, just talked to 704 00:40:46,739 --> 00:40:48,980 S1: our attorney last week and he's going to file to 705 00:40:48,980 --> 00:40:50,980 S1: open the corporation. And then he's going to start the 706 00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:54,899 S1: process of the tax exempt filing with the IRS. And 707 00:40:54,900 --> 00:40:57,580 S1: it's just something that's somewhat complex. You need somebody who 708 00:40:57,580 --> 00:41:00,660 S1: really understands that and has some experience with it. And 709 00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:03,500 S1: as a part of that, he will create the bylaws 710 00:41:03,540 --> 00:41:06,380 S1: or she, uh, you'll have to select the board of 711 00:41:06,380 --> 00:41:10,380 S1: directors for the school, usually three, you'll have a conflict 712 00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:14,379 S1: of interest policy, things like that. But ultimately, once you 713 00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:18,219 S1: get that determination and that could take 4 to 8 714 00:41:18,219 --> 00:41:22,859 S1: months before the IRS ultimately gives you that 500 1C3 status. 715 00:41:22,860 --> 00:41:25,700 S1: But once you have that, that allows you to take 716 00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:30,500 S1: the tax deductible donations in addition to applying for grants 717 00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:34,310 S1: or church or foundation support. So that's going to give 718 00:41:34,310 --> 00:41:37,550 S1: you the legal status and the ability to take those tax, 719 00:41:37,590 --> 00:41:41,029 S1: tax deductible contributions. And then from that point, you would 720 00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:44,790 S1: just need to meet the state education requirements and, you know, 721 00:41:44,830 --> 00:41:47,589 S1: secure the location and insurance and all the things that 722 00:41:47,590 --> 00:41:51,590 S1: it takes to run a school sustainably. Does that make sense? 723 00:41:52,070 --> 00:41:55,430 S8: Yes it does. That's very helpful. Thank you. 724 00:41:55,469 --> 00:41:57,989 S1: You're welcome. If you don't have an attorney that is 725 00:41:57,989 --> 00:42:02,070 S1: skilled in this area of filing for 500 1C3 determination, 726 00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:04,430 S1: you could reach out to a certified Kingdom advisor there 727 00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:06,910 S1: in Illinois and ask for a referral. Just say I 728 00:42:06,910 --> 00:42:09,630 S1: want to start a nonprofit Christian school looking for an 729 00:42:09,630 --> 00:42:15,190 S1: attorney that has some experience in 501 C3 non-profit filings. Linda, 730 00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:17,270 S1: thanks for your call today. Hey, a big thanks to 731 00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:21,270 S1: Josh Taylor, to Hira and Omar, the amazing team making 732 00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:24,110 S1: all this happen, pushing all the buttons. Faith and finance 733 00:42:24,350 --> 00:42:26,790 S1: is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith fi. Come 734 00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:28,910 S1: back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye bye.