S1: Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
S1: and I truly hope you hear something that edifies encourage, equips, enlightens,
S1: and then gets you out there in the marketplace of ideas.
S1: But before you go, I want to tell you about
S1: this month's truth tool. It's called Have You Ever Wondered?
S1: And I absolutely love this topic because if you're like me,
S1: going out into the night sky and looking up and
S1: seeing a million stars, don't you just stop and think
S1: about God? And are you not in a moment of
S1: awe and wonder or looking out over the vast expanse
S1: of an ocean and you start thinking, what is man,
S1: that thou art mindful of him? And it makes you
S1: wonder about the magnificence of God? I think that sense
S1: of wonder was put there on purpose, and this wonderful
S1: book includes a composite of multiple authors who have written
S1: from their perspective as a scientist, or a historian, or
S1: a mathematician or an artist, on why they all have
S1: this sense of awe through the work that they do.
S1: In other words, the heavens declare the glory. And as
S1: it tells us in Romans, we are really without excuse
S1: because his handiwork is everywhere. And this book invites you
S1: to walk through the chapters written by people who all
S1: have a sense of awe and wonder when it comes
S1: to God through their various disciplines in life. It's an
S1: amazing book and it's yours. For a gift of any amount,
S1: just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Ask
S1: for a copy of Have You Ever Wondered? And we'll
S1: send it right off to you as my way of
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S1: in the market with Janet Parshall. Consider becoming a partial
S1: partner or asking for this month's truth tool. Have you
S1: ever wondered? And now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3: The conference was over. The president one of the.
S4: Americans worshiping government over God.
S3: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.
S5: The Palestinians and the Israelis negotiated.
S3: The Bush tax is not.
S1: Just give me a minute. I'll be right with you. Yeah.
S1: I want to feel the wind on my face just
S1: a little bit longer, and I can taste the salt
S1: on my lips. Oh, there's just something about the ocean. Hi, friends.
S1: Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. So glad
S1: we're going to spend the hour together. Okay, here's the skinny.
S1: So I was landlocked in the Midwest for years. And
S1: then God, in his infinite wisdom, his mercy and his love,
S1: called our family to Washington, D.C.. And then I became
S1: what's called a Mid-Atlantic girl. Now, for a kid who
S1: was landlocked to suddenly be so close to an ocean,
S1: I have to tell you, there was a lot of
S1: things I had to learn in short order. Number one,
S1: I thought I could endure a hurricane. So stupid. Me
S1: and a cat one hurricane. I stood out on the
S1: beach and I thought, oh, it's just a cat one.
S1: They can go all the way up to five. How
S1: bad can this get? Little did I know that when
S1: the wind blows, it turns the sand into shards of
S1: glass and starts tearing at your flesh. So that was
S1: rule number one. Rule number two was. Oh, my. I
S1: think my attraction to the ocean is because it makes
S1: me think of God. I can't tell you any other
S1: way I feel about it except that it is vast,
S1: it is expansive, it is wild. It is uncontrollable. It's
S1: bigger than me. It doesn't take any prisoners. You'd better
S1: respect it. How quickly I learned that people could die
S1: when they were caught up in riptides, because in their
S1: own hubris, they thought, oh, it's a wave. I'm not
S1: that far from shore. I'll never drown. And you begin
S1: to understand the magnificence that is the sea. And then
S1: you start doing a deep dive into God's word, and
S1: you realize he talks an awful lot about the sea.
S1: So here's the psalmist, and you can guess what seas
S1: he was looking at there in the Middle East. But
S1: he said, how many are your works, O Lord? In
S1: wisdom you made them all. The earth is full of
S1: your creatures. There is the sea, vast and spacious, teeming
S1: with creatures beyond number, living things both large and small.
S1: And there the ships go to and from. And the
S1: Leviathan which you formed to frolic there. Think of a
S1: Leviathan frolicking. So you can imagine when a book crossed
S1: my desk entitled If the Ocean Has a Soul. It
S1: stopped me dead in my tracks, particularly when I understood
S1: that the author is a marine biologist who has pursued
S1: truth through deep waves of faith and science. And I
S1: was quickly to discover that not only has she had
S1: a wild ride of experiences and all the things that
S1: she's done, she has worked in marine aquaculture research, ocean
S1: organic chemistry laboratories, veterinary research facilities, the pet industry, and
S1: a museum. And she writes beautifully. The book itself is beautiful,
S1: just the graphics that are included in the book. But
S1: the way in which Rachel Jordan writes is unbelievable. And,
S1: you know, when she's not diving or writing, she can
S1: be found reading C.S. Lewis. So I knew we were
S1: kindred spirits right out of the gate. Rachel is a
S1: professional marine biologist and lay theologian. She is a self professed,
S1: Jesus loving coral nerd. Now, how many times today are
S1: you going to hear that she was raised in Idaho,
S1: speaking of Landlock and has since traveled the globe chasing
S1: her passion for faith and science. She got a master's
S1: in marine biology and ecology from James Cook University in
S1: where else? Australia. She got a BS in ecology from
S1: Seattle Pacific University and a certification in Bible studies from
S1: a Bible school in Germany. And she joins us today
S1: as the author of If the Ocean Has a Soul. Oh. Rachel,
S1: first and foremost, I loved your book. Thank you so much.
S1: I don't know how many people would have pondered to say,
S1: I know I'm going to write a book as a
S1: marine biologist. Out of all my years of doing this.
S1: And friend, it is decades, not years. I've never once
S1: had a topic like this cross my desk. I fell
S1: deeply in love with this book, and I so appreciate
S1: that you gave that gift to all of us. So
S1: thank you and thank you for being here.
S6: Oh, thank you so much for your kind words, Janet.
S6: It's so special to get some time with you. And
S6: I'm so excited to share my love for God's marine
S6: creation with you today.
S1: Oh, it comes through loud and clear in the book, Rachel,
S1: so I can't wait to share some of those stories
S1: and friends and full disclosure to get you to get
S1: the book, because I'm not going to be able to
S1: do it justice. You're going to have to read Rachel's
S1: words for herself. You know, Scripture says, out of the
S1: overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. I believe I
S1: can amend that a wee bit and say, out of
S1: the overflow of the heart, the pen writes. And that's
S1: exactly what Rachel does in this book. So I have
S1: to start from the very beginning. How does a kid
S1: from Idaho fall in love with the ocean?
S6: It is kind of a funny combination. Landlocked kid love
S6: for the ocean. My family took us kids on trips
S6: to the Oregon and Washington coast as I was growing up.
S6: We would make a trip out there about once a year.
S6: So even though I grew up in a landlocked state,
S6: I had access to a lot of lakes there, and
S6: then we would occasionally go to the ocean. And what
S6: really struck me about the ocean was that it's so vast,
S6: you can't see to the other side of it, and
S6: it's teeming with creatures. You touched on one of my
S6: favorite songs of all time. It's teeming with creatures beyond number.
S6: The Bible tells us, and as a scientist, I can
S6: affirm that that is very much, in fact, the case.
S6: We're constantly discovering new creatures in the ocean. But as
S6: a kid, tide pools made some of these sea creatures
S6: accessible to me. Tide pools are these rocky outcroppings where
S6: the tide washes up and water collects in these pools.
S6: And sometimes little creatures get trapped in these pools of
S6: water so you can crawl around on the rocks and
S6: explore and and pick up sea stars and touch sticky
S6: sea anemones, or chase after a crab. It was a
S6: wonderful way to get to experience the ocean for the
S6: first time as a kid. Wow.
S1: Did you have any idea that it would be a
S1: full blown love affair?
S6: I knew I loved it, but I think I sort
S6: of assumed that everybody felt that way about it. A
S6: lot of people love the ocean. I will say it's
S6: really hard to experience for yourself and not come away
S6: being fascinated by it in some way, shape or form,
S6: whether it's the power of it or the vastness or
S6: the diversity. There's so many incredible things about the ocean.
S6: But I think as a kid I just thought, yeah,
S6: everybody loves the ocean and everybody loves tidepooling and everybody
S6: loves swimming. And I didn't occur to me that my
S6: deep love for it was maybe a little bit more
S6: of a personal thing. And I it's funny, I like
S6: joke now, um, that my my joke. But it's serious too.
S6: My love for the ocean, I realized, has really traveled
S6: a parallel path to my love for Jesus. I was
S6: introduced to him at a young age, and it's so
S6: neat how God's grown my love for both along the
S6: journey of life.
S1: And you write about that in the book with such
S1: sweet eloquence. It's so wonderful. Well, you tell so many
S1: stories and I can't wait to share some of them
S1: with our audience. Rachel Jordan is with us for the
S1: entire hour. How often do you get to talk to
S1: a professional marine biologist and lay theologian? Now that's an
S1: interesting combination. Rachel's new book is called If the Ocean
S1: Has a Soul a marine Biologist Pursuit of Truth. Through
S1: deep waters of faith and science. We get to spend
S1: the entire hour with Rachel. So we'll take a break
S1: and come right back. More after this. God uses so
S1: much in the world around us to point to him.
S1: Our sense of wonder is really about knowing him. That's
S1: why I've chosen. Have you ever wondered, as this month's
S1: Truth tool? This book is for all who have looked
S1: up at a million stars in the night sky and
S1: just wondered, ask for your copy of. Have you ever
S1: wondered when you give a gift of any amount to
S1: in the market, call eight 7758. That's eight 7758 or
S1: go to in the market with Janet Parshall. Do you
S1: know that psychiatrists and psychologists will tell you that you
S1: should go to the the ocean as often as you can,
S1: because it is a natural stress reliever. Yeah, some people
S1: call it God's Valium, if you've ever heard it said
S1: that way before, that there's something about the rhythmic pattern
S1: of the waves that just dials down the stress. So
S1: if you can get there, go there. Because there is oh,
S1: so much to learn just about creation and to start
S1: putting your mind on things above. I don't know how
S1: you look at an ocean without thinking of God, and
S1: that certainly was the case for Rachel Jordan, who said
S1: as her love for marine biology grew, so did her
S1: love for Jesus, and the two intersected. She's the author
S1: of the brand new book If the Ocean Has a Soul.
S1: Rachel in the very beginning of the book, which I
S1: thought was interesting and very perceptive on your part, you
S1: drew your sword and you wanted to slay the dragon
S1: of mythology that says that science and religion, more specifically Christianity,
S1: are at war with one another. You know, the more
S1: scientists I talked to, and I've interviewed a boatload of
S1: them on this program, the more I understand that not
S1: only is that mythology, but scientists. It's like putting on
S1: the best pair of glasses ever. And you see order
S1: and form and substance because you have a biblical worldview.
S1: Talk to me about the intersection between the two.
S6: Yeah, well, as I talk about in the beginning of
S6: the book, I really feel like faith and science have
S6: the capacity to encourage and strengthen each other. As a scientist,
S6: I have a hope in my my career because of
S6: my faith, the because of the life, death, and resurrection
S6: of Jesus, I am able to carry into my work
S6: a hope for the future and God's eventual restored creation.
S6: That my scientific counterparts who do not yet know and
S6: love the Lord don't have, and vice versa. As a Christian,
S6: when I experience creation, I am able to look even
S6: deeper than just the sheer beauty and glory that it
S6: displays of God's character. But because I, for my job,
S6: studied the how of how things operate, how things fit together,
S6: how they intersect and integrate and affect us, how humans
S6: are part of this giant ecosystem that God's created because
S6: of all those things. I have an even deeper appreciation
S6: for the ways God's character is displayed through everything that
S6: he's made. So I don't just see God's beauty and glory,
S6: but I see all different kinds of attributes, even through
S6: the lowliest little fish up to the biggest whale. There's
S6: so much to be learned about God's character from his creation,
S6: and I'm really blessed to have a front row seat
S6: to that.
S1: And that's exactly what you write about in the book.
S1: That's why the stories are so engaging, because not only
S1: do you teach us something about this particular bit of
S1: marine life, but it teaches us something about the character
S1: of God. So let me just pause for a moment
S1: and address the lay theologian in you. You know, I
S1: love the way that the Bible tells us that the
S1: heavens declare his glory, that we can see his handiwork everywhere.
S1: As a marine biologist, it must be interesting and I'm
S1: wondering if a tad frustrating that you know that as
S1: the as the psalmist said, the ocean is teeming with
S1: all of these creatures, large and small, and the overwhelming
S1: number of people on planet Earth will never see them.
S1: So then you think, why is God's handiwork hid? And
S1: why would he be so prolific in his colors, his shapes,
S1: his forms and types when we won't even get to
S1: see all of them? What does that tell us about God?
S6: I think it tells us that God and His story
S6: for creation is a lot less anthropocentric than we might think.
S6: Anthropocentric meaning human centered. I think we as humans tend
S6: to be a little bit, perhaps selfish in how we
S6: view God's story. We view it on human terms. Understandably.
S6: That is our context, our paradigm. That's that's the way
S6: in which we experience everything. And God did make us
S6: that way. And there's a beauty to that. We're made
S6: in his image. There's tremendous value to it. But it's
S6: it's a limiting factor. And I think to recognize Eyes
S6: that maybe, maybe other aspects of God creation, that there's
S6: a wisdom and a richness and even relationship between them
S6: and God independent of us humans that is worth considering
S6: and exploring and admiring. And so that is where I
S6: think a lot of my curiosity for nature comes from.
S6: It's as I get deeper into the ocean and exploring
S6: it and learning about all the different critters that live there,
S6: I feel as though I'm getting to understand specific attributes
S6: of God's character and and maybe by encountering a specific
S6: kind of fish at a specific moment in time, or
S6: by interacting with a particularly colorful coral in a certain
S6: location by having these individual experiences. I think each of
S6: them declare God's glory in their own unique way. So
S6: what can I as a witness to this moment, to
S6: this creature and the mode in which it praises God.
S6: What can I learn about God's character and that whole
S6: question that's completely independent of me? I mean, I'm there
S6: as a witness. I'm not the one orchestrating this. I'm
S6: not God. I'm not sustaining these things. I'm not telling
S6: these creatures to perform their function. They are doing that.
S6: That's the way that they were designed. They were created
S6: beautifully and wonderfully by God to fulfill their specific ecological niche,
S6: to do the thing they were made to do. And
S6: so many of them do it well. And I want
S6: to stand as a witness to that and ask, what
S6: can I learn about these things that teaches me about
S6: who God is? Does that make sense?
S1: Oh, it makes unbelievable sense. I was thinking also when
S1: you were talking, if I can borrow the line from
S1: Chariots of Fire, where Eric Liddell says, when I run,
S1: I feel his pleasure. Maybe even though you and I
S1: can't see all of the creation that he has put
S1: inside the oceans. Maybe he made it for his pleasure.
S1: And that's okay. Like you say, that's sitting back. What
S1: does it say about God that he is putting his
S1: handiwork on display? Even if mankind won't see all of it?
S1: Get to be some of it. Some very special people
S1: like you get to see it up close and personal,
S1: and it says something about who he is, the majesty.
S1: And again, I talked about the ocean before. I love
S1: the fact that God is untamable, and when he has
S1: so many creations in the ocean that we can't even
S1: identify them, we're finding new species all the time. I
S1: love it because it reminds me that God Himself is untamable,
S1: and that's the kind of a god I think we
S1: all should want. Let me take a break. It is
S1: an absolutely fascinating book. It's entitled If the Ocean Has
S1: a Soul. Rachel Jordan is the author. She's a professional
S1: marine biologist as well as a lay theologian. And in
S1: her new book, she talks to the animals, the fish,
S1: the Coral reef. And she does it beautifully as she's
S1: observing the handiwork of God. We'll get into some of
S1: those stories when we return. We're spending the hour at
S1: the ocean where we're going to learn about God's magnificent
S1: creation and what nature can teach us about God. Rachel
S1: Jordan is our guide. She's a professional marine biologist and
S1: lay theologian, and she's written the book If the Ocean
S1: Has a Soul A marine Biologist Pursuit of Truth Through
S1: Deep Waters of Faith and science. It is very clear
S1: early on in the book, Rachel, that you have a
S1: passion for coral reef, and I want you to tell
S1: me why and also So explain to our friends what
S1: Sctld is.
S6: Yeah. So corals look like a rock, a very colorful rock,
S6: but they are actually an animal. Um, most coral species
S6: are sessile, which means that they don't move once they
S6: settle on the ocean floor as tiny little microscopic juveniles
S6: and start multiplying their bodies to grow. They stay in
S6: that fixed position for their whole lives. Corals are really
S6: unique because they actually don't senesce. Meaning that they don't age.
S6: Their cells have regenerative abilities that don't wear out with time.
S6: So hypothetically, if a coral had the perfect environment it
S6: needed to grow, it could continue growing and living for forever,
S6: which is pretty wild. And that's partly why when we
S6: talk about statistics like global reefs are in decline. It's
S6: very alarming as a coral biologist, because we're talking about
S6: animals that are supposed to live hundreds and hundreds and
S6: hundreds of years, and they're not living very long or very,
S6: very old. Corals older than the oldest person alive right
S6: now are dying because their environment has become so extreme.
S6: One example of a environmental effect that's taken hold that's
S6: affecting coral survival is sctld, which stands for stony coral
S6: tissue loss disease. It's one of a variety of different
S6: kinds of tissue loss diseases, which is where tissue loss
S6: diseases cause the tissue, the body of the coral animal
S6: to slough off the skeleton of the animal. And corals
S6: bodies are sort of like a layered cake where the
S6: base layer is the skeleton and the frosting is their body.
S6: So it'd be like peeling the frosting up off a cake.
S6: And that's what these diseases do. But sctld is unique
S6: among tissue loss diseases because of how violent it is.
S6: It's very necrotic. It has a very high mortality rate.
S6: If a coral contracts sctld, it has an extremely high
S6: likelihood of dying. And to date, we haven't found a
S6: great cure for it. Um, one of my jobs working
S6: for the National Park Service at Dry Tortugas was to
S6: apply an intervention treatment. Um, a special antibiotic and cocoa
S6: butter based mixture to the lesions of sick corals in
S6: order to try to treat the disease that the coral
S6: could recover. And while we find that the treatment slowed
S6: the progression of disease lesions across individual corals. The corals
S6: would eventually succumb to the disease. So while we were
S6: able to slow sctld, we weren't able to extinguish it.
S6: And it was really hard. Um, you know, scientists are
S6: people too. We're were very emotional creatures and going through
S6: the experience of watching an underwater ecosystem collapse and the
S6: death of hundreds and hundreds of coral animals was very,
S6: very hard. Um, and that was something that really brought
S6: me into conversation with God during scuba diving. I would
S6: be diving along, treating a sick coral, knowing that it
S6: probably didn't stand much of a chance against Sctld, but
S6: I had the opportunity to pray for it and to
S6: admire how beautiful it was, and to think about how
S6: God had intentionally created it and was giving me the
S6: opportunity to minister to this creature in a moment of need.
S6: It was a very special experience.
S1: Part of that regime to try to deter you actually
S1: use amoxicillin, correct?
S6: Yeah. Amoxicillin was the antibiotic base of the ointment that
S6: we put on. So we would mix amoxicillin in powdered
S6: form with this toothpaste type textured cocoa butter based mixture
S6: called base to be. It was developed specifically for this
S6: coral treatment, and you'd mix the two together and it
S6: would form this really thick, very gooey, mucousy type putty
S6: that we would pack into caulk tubes by hand and
S6: then slim down on while scuba diving and treat the corals,
S6: and you'd squirt out the treatment onto the surface of
S6: the coral on the sick part, and kind of pack
S6: it into the coral grooves as much as you could
S6: to try to get the treatment to stick. And that
S6: was supposed to act like a firebreak, keeping the disease
S6: from progressing further across the surface of the animal.
S1: Wow. The reason I bring that up is because there
S1: are kinds of people within the sound of our voices
S1: who have had amoxicillin. They've used it for their kids
S1: when they got sick. And so all of a sudden,
S1: you've taken the whole idea of a coral reef, and
S1: instead of us looking at it as a kind of funky,
S1: porous rock, you now talk about it as a living entity,
S1: which people who aren't in the world of science or
S1: marine biology in particular, don't understand. It's a living entity,
S1: but the same antibiotic that you take, not the same
S1: combination with the cocoa butter, but the same antibiotic was
S1: exactly what was used to try to deter the spread
S1: of this disease that was eradicating the coral reefs. So
S1: to me, that just changed my whole perspective on that
S1: immediately because I thought, wow, it's not just pink rock
S1: or it isn't. Something gets turned into jewelry at a
S1: gift store, at a vacation spot. This is an entity.
S1: This is a living thing, reflective of the handiwork of God.
S1: So let me ask the question and you hear the music.
S1: So I'll take the answer on the other side. You
S1: talked about praying for this. And you know, I see
S1: no difference for that between praying for my dog that's
S1: sick and asking God if it's his will to please
S1: heal my dog. Those of us who have animals, I
S1: think God cares about that. In fact, the Bible says
S1: a righteous man attendeth his animals. So what did God
S1: teach you through the choral experiences. What were the attributes
S1: of God that you witnessed as that front row seat?
S1: Learning more and more about the creator himself. It's an
S1: absolutely fascinating book that Rachel Jordan has written. It's called
S1: If the Ocean Has a Soul. And again, she is
S1: a professional marine biologist as well as a lay theologian.
S1: And it will make you think about the world around
S1: us and God's handiwork in a whole different way. And
S1: I think that's a good thing. Back after this. The
S1: Bible says the Word of God illuminates our walk through life.
S1: It's a lamp to our feet and a light to
S1: our path. Without it, we stumble and fall in the
S1: market with Janet Parshall is designed to help you look
S1: at the headlines of the day through the lens of Scripture.
S1: When you become a partial partner, you help to make
S1: this broadcast possible, and as a partial partner, you'll receive
S1: exclusive benefits. So why not become a partial partner today?
S1: Call 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market
S1: with Janet Parshall. Oh. That sounds wonderful. It just relaxes you,
S1: does it not? Well, Rachel Jordan is with us. She's
S1: a professional marine biologist and lay theologian. She is a
S1: self-professed Jesus loving choral nerd raised in Idaho, traveled the
S1: world with her passion for faith and science. In addition
S1: to working as a coral biologist for the U.S. Park
S1: National Park, Rachel has worked in marine aquaculture research, organic
S1: chemistry laboratories, veterinary research facilities, the pet industry, and yes,
S1: even a museum. She joins us today with a marvelous
S1: book entitled If the Ocean Has a Soul. The subtitle
S1: a marine Biologists Pursuit of Truth Through Deep Waters of
S1: faith and science. So I have to ask you because
S1: you addressed it in the book. In fact, you say
S1: it's one of the most common questions that you're asked
S1: on a regular basis. And it has to do with
S1: the topic of sharks. So I will ask for the
S1: people who are listening all across the United States, because
S1: they'll get mad at me if I don't ask you
S1: a shark question. Let me drop in a sharp story.
S1: So we've got a shark that apparently was swimming off
S1: the waters of Florida. He's 14ft. He is a great white.
S1: He has been tagged, so they are tracking him. He
S1: has most recently passed Cape Hatteras at the Outer Banks.
S1: And he's moving north through the warm waters and obviously
S1: going up north where he's probably going to be a
S1: part of the breeding grounds up there. I don't need
S1: a bigger boat. I'm just not going in the water.
S1: So what was it like for you the first time
S1: that you saw a shark?
S6: Well, I haven't seen any great whites in person, but
S6: the first time I got to swim with sharks actually
S6: kind of healed something in me. My whole growing up,
S6: I'd always been really afraid of sharks. I read about
S6: it in the book. I used to have these horrible
S6: nightmares where I'd be charged by a shark, and right
S6: before it chomped down, I'd wake up in a cold sweat.
S6: And it was terrifying. And it was such an extreme fear.
S6: Even when I was an adult in a swimming pool,
S6: it would just sort of creep up on me. And
S6: it was a really inconvenient fear for a marine biologist.
S6: And so what's wild is that, God, I don't know
S6: if this is his version of exposure therapy or what,
S6: but my first experience swimming with sharks was, um, actually,
S6: if I remember right, it happened in the Blue Hole
S6: in Belize, and there were some lemon sharks off in
S6: the distance silhouetted. And I was so bewildered by it
S6: because it was it was simultaneously terrifying because I had
S6: this fear already. But it was so beautiful. It was
S6: like seeing. Being. It's almost like seeing an eagle just
S6: see through the sky. Just something incredibly agile and swift
S6: and elegant to their bodies. And after doing a couple
S6: dives with sharks, um, it finally occurred to me not
S6: that long later, I was like, I, I don't think
S6: I'm afraid of them the same way anymore. They're just
S6: stunning creatures. They're incredibly beautiful. I think it also helps
S6: that almost every time I've ever been in the water
S6: with a shark, it's more afraid of me than I
S6: am of it. Um, they tend to take one, like,
S6: look at me in the water, or they kind of
S6: sniff me from the vibrations going through the water, and
S6: they turn on a dime and just disappear into the darkness.
S6: There's a flash and they're gone because they get scared
S6: of me. So there's kind of a comfort to that.
S6: I think sharks are really heavily villainized, especially by the media. Um,
S6: I have yet to see jaws. Um, but I just.
S6: I am blown away by what beautiful creatures they are.
S6: And as you read from that Psalm earlier, you know
S6: God created Leviathan to frolic in the ocean. And I
S6: love the idea of Leviathan frolicking. I think sharks are
S6: an example of a modern day Leviathan, even if it's
S6: just in our own head of how we view them
S6: as sort of this monstrosity. But they frolic. There's a
S6: beautiful praise and intentionality to what they are, and that
S6: glorifies God too.
S1: So I'm going to go back to what you learned
S1: about God through the coral reef. Tell me what you
S1: learned about God with sharks through sharks.
S6: Oh, man. I think his power is almost like a
S6: restrained kind of power. When I first saw a shark
S6: up close, I remember thinking, oh my goodness, I feel
S6: like I'm seeing a tiger in the jungle. You know,
S6: it was it was this feeling of like this, this
S6: creature was made for this environment. Environments. This is where
S6: it belongs. I am the intruder in this space. Not it.
S6: And it is restrained power. It could choose to do something.
S6: You know. Perhaps we might classify as, you know, violent or,
S6: you know, has sharp teeth. It can move fast, all
S6: these things. But it is it is restrained. It has self-control.
S6: It is holding back. And these creatures can be curious
S6: in the same way that we humans can be curious.
S6: I might be checking out the shark, like, you know,
S6: what's it doing and where is it going and how
S6: does it feel? But it might be doing the same
S6: thing to me, kind of sizing me up like, what
S6: is that funny looking, bubbly creature that's making all this
S6: racket underwater? What on earth is it doing? Um, so
S6: they're probably interested in us in sort of a similar capacity,
S6: and I don't think that's a bad thing. I think
S6: that's wonderful.
S1: Yeah, I do too. So as long as I'm talking
S1: about Leviathan. Let's talk about whales. Ever seen one and
S1: talk to me about the magic castles?
S6: Uh, yes. I have not seen a whale in the
S6: water with me. I have heard them. And one of
S6: the neatest experience I had, one of the neatest experiences
S6: I've had in the ocean was, um, one of my intervention.
S6: Disease treatment dives at this dive site called Magic Castles,
S6: which was this collection of nine very large pillar corals. Um,
S6: the scientific name is Dendrogyra cylindrus. They're extremely endangered. And
S6: there's very, very, very few of them left existing in
S6: the world. Um, and so to be at a dive
S6: site where nine of them were clustered together was pretty
S6: miraculous to begin with. But what was tragic was I
S6: wasn't there to just dive the site and enjoy the corals.
S6: I was there to help them try to fight off
S6: the disease that they had contracted. And so I would
S6: spend dozens of hours, you know, not all in one go,
S6: of course, but over the course of several days. My
S6: dive team and I would be diving that site repetitively
S6: over and over and over again, going down in two, three, four,
S6: sometimes even more people. These teams, to try to tackle
S6: this disease and give the corals the best chance of survival.
S6: And unfortunately we we failed. And I got to watch
S6: magic castles these incredibly tall corals there. They're about oh
S6: my goodness they would be about from from base along
S6: the sea floor to the tippy top about five feet
S6: away from the water surface. The water was was about,
S6: you know, maybe 25ft deep in some places. So they
S6: were tremendously large. It's truly like these, these castles underwater.
S6: And they're covered with these gorgeous, flowy, peach flower esque polyps.
S6: These really beautiful little flower like tendrils that would wave
S6: at you in the current, um, it was incredibly beautiful.
S6: And to watch them slowly succumb to this disease was
S6: really hard. But one of the neatest experiences I ever
S6: had was near the end of the corals lives, and
S6: I was struggling to keep it together in the water, just,
S6: you know, trying to do my job and praying. And
S6: I kept hearing these funny noises. I was like, what
S6: is going on? And it wasn't really until the end
S6: of my dive that I started to piece together what
S6: was happening. When you're underwater, there's a lot of sounds.
S6: There's the gurgling of your own exhaled breaths. There's sort
S6: of the squeak of your regulator as you inhale. There's
S6: the clickings and snappings and scratchings of fish, you know,
S6: digging around for food and sort of whirling around through
S6: the water. Um, your, your dive buddy might be hammering
S6: away at something. All these things make noise. It's. It's
S6: very a quiet, meditative environment, but there's a lot of
S6: sound at the same time. It's just what you might
S6: consider white noise, but a very large variety of sounds.
S6: But to hear like this strange, singsong like sound coming
S6: through the backdrop was very unusual. That was not normal.
S6: And I pieced it together around the end of my dive.
S6: And what confirmed my hunch was when my dive buddy
S6: swam up to me with a clipboard on which she'd scrawled,
S6: can you hear the whales? And it was such an
S6: encouragement to my heart because I was grieving the loss
S6: of magic castles and just trying to do my work
S6: and and trying to, you know, love my dive team. Well,
S6: trying to care for these creatures that are dying and
S6: not let my heart be ripped out in the process.
S6: But every day is really hard when you are actively
S6: watching a creature you love die. And then there were
S6: whales singing in the background, and it was just this
S6: balm to my heart that I didn't know I needed.
S6: But I feel like God had them sing loud enough
S6: that I could hear them, so that I could have
S6: the encouragement I needed that day. And it was a
S6: really special moment.
S1: Let me go back to the coral reefs, because that
S1: is your passion, that is your heart. And you've got
S1: so many chapters to your life that are written about
S1: in the book. So if I don't get time to
S1: talk about them, friends, you get a chance to read
S1: them in the book. If the ocean has a soul
S1: but you experience death, what does that teach you about God?
S6: Death is a tough one, especially to answer in just
S6: a brief couple minutes on the radio, but I will
S6: do my best. Um, I think in the context of
S6: coral and talking about the death of coral reefs, I
S6: think what I learned as someone who deeply loves this
S6: ecosystem and has spent so much of my life laboring
S6: over them. What I've recognized is that if I love
S6: coral enough that I've chosen to spend my life this way,
S6: how much more so does God love coral? And if
S6: my heart is grieving, how much more so does he grieve?
S6: And if I have a good plan and hopes for
S6: these creatures, how much more so does he?
S7: So there's a lot of encouragement in that. Well.
S1: Let me take a break in a conversation that's going
S1: far too quickly. Rachel Jordan's brand new book is called
S1: If the Ocean Has a Soul a marine Biologists Pursuit
S1: of Truth Through Deep Waters of Faith and science. So
S1: much more in the book that even the gift of
S1: one hour of Rachel's time doesn't give me the opportunity
S1: to explore. You can explore when you get the book
S1: back after this. That's an orchestra of sound. You heard
S1: seagulls and dolphin and whale, all of those wonderful creations
S1: that the Lord has made filling the oceans with all
S1: of these amazing creatures. Rachel Jordan knows that full well.
S1: She's been in some of the most significant bodies of
S1: water on planet Earth. As a professional marine biologist and
S1: a lay theologian, she loves to write about science and
S1: faith together. And she's written a brand new book called
S1: If the Ocean Has a Soul a marine Biologist Pursuit
S1: of Truth Through Deep Waters of Faith and science. Rachel,
S1: there's so much in the book. Let me, because I
S1: want to make sure I get this story in, because
S1: out of all the stories I read, I think the
S1: ones that touched me the most was in a period
S1: of your life. When you had finished your grad work
S1: in Australia, you came back and you were struggling to
S1: find a job, you know, and I'm thinking? Well, with
S1: your background, a master's from a university in Australia on
S1: marine biology, you'd be snapped up right away. But that
S1: wasn't God's plan. So you were struggling for a while
S1: and ended up, believe it or not, in a pet shop.
S1: So you go from looking at animals in the wild,
S1: hearing whales when you're at magic castles, to looking at
S1: fish in tanks in a pet store. That in and
S1: of itself had to be a humbling and challenging experience.
S1: But your heart comes through so much in this part
S1: of the book that I just really want to talk
S1: about it. So how many of us as parents have
S1: not bought our child a goldfish that comes home in
S1: a small bag of water, right about two inches of water,
S1: one fish and he's in this plastic bag, and then
S1: the other ones with the beautiful tails that whip around.
S1: And they're. Are they beta? Is that how I say it?
S1: Beta fish. Yeah. Beta fish. So you. I just love
S1: your heart on this. So these animals would come in
S1: and a lot of them wouldn't be real healthy. And
S1: so what does Rachel Jordan do? She's going to be
S1: Nurse Jordan to these fish. Tell me the story. It's
S1: so fabulous.
S6: Well, as you mentioned, I was I was going through
S6: sort of a hard time in my non-professional, but also
S6: professional life and really struggling to get a job, wound
S6: up working at a pet store, and my manager was
S6: a recent high school graduate who took me under his
S6: wing and mentored me in everything, the aquarium hobby that
S6: he knew. He was such a rock star, and one
S6: of the ongoing issues that the pet store had was
S6: that we would get large shipments of beta fish in
S6: from overseas, where they would be bred and from which
S6: they'd be sent to us. And these fish arrived in
S6: such bad conditions that sometimes they would show up dead
S6: on arrival. But more often than not, about half of
S6: the shipment would be sick. And it was really tough
S6: because your job in a pet store environment is ultimately like,
S6: you know, to take care of the animals, of course,
S6: but also to make sales for the store. And you
S6: can't very well sell a sick fish to someone. It's
S6: problematic on so many levels, and it's also heartbreaking as
S6: a new pet owner to take home a fish and
S6: to give it a name and begin loving it, and then,
S6: you know, next day it's floating. Like, that's.
S7: That's really.
S6: Sad. And so the only solution that I could come
S6: up with, because our time working in the pet store
S6: was limited. We had so many different jobs we were
S6: supposed to be doing back in the aquatics department. My
S6: request to my manager, which he graciously granted, was can
S6: I take home the sick, sick bay fish and put
S6: them in individual containers, give them medication, give them nice
S6: little fluffy aquatic plants to play with. Give them the
S6: best possible food that is available to us from the
S6: store and give them regular water changes. Give them treatments
S6: every single day on my own time. unpaid. I'll pay
S6: for the resources and see if we can get them
S6: back to health. And it was. It was an experiment
S6: that I needed in order to feel like there was
S6: purpose for that season in my life, but it ended
S6: up being such a bonding experience. Some of the relationships
S6: that I formed with these individual fish were incredibly special,
S6: but then it was a huge blessing to my family.
S6: I was living with my parents at the time, and
S6: this project, what we called the Beta Hospital, literally brought
S6: my parents into my bedroom and into conversation with me.
S6: And it was so sweet because when I went to
S6: bed at night, my parents would tiptoe in and say
S6: good night to me, of course, but they would also
S6: say good night to the fish, just in case one
S6: of them didn't happen to make it until morning. And
S6: it was really a special season. Um, and the good
S6: news is that we were able to to help so
S6: many of the beta fish get back to full health
S6: and really flourish. Especially the ones that, you know, maybe
S6: they had some necrosis in their fins, or they'd gotten
S6: into a fight with another fish, or they had some
S6: kind of a disease on their scales. These fish that
S6: looked so rough and pale when I first took them home,
S6: would go back to the pet store with these long
S6: flowing fins.
S7: All sorts of beautiful bright.
S6: Jewel colors. And my manager was just awestruck. And. And
S6: those beta fish would sell the fastest. Those were the
S6: ones that people wanted to take home. And what's more,
S6: they loved the story of the Beta Hospital. For every
S6: fish that I took home and nursed back to health.
S6: I'd get to know their personality a little bit. Some
S6: fish preferred, you know, larger pellets of food or some
S6: fish really liked snuggling into the folds of the leaves
S6: of the plants in their tank. Or other fish would
S6: really hang out, like at the top of their tank,
S6: and they'd, like, waggle their fins really excitedly when they
S6: saw you. So I took notes on the different attributes
S6: of these fish, and when they went back to the
S6: pet store, they'd get a little card included with their, um,
S6: their setup in the pet store that introduced their story,
S6: that they had gone to the hospital, but they were
S6: back to full health. And here are a couple things
S6: about the fish. And and it really was so special
S6: for that time in my life and the community of
S6: people there. My, my best days working that job were
S6: when people who'd bought a hospital data came back in
S6: to give me an update on their fish, and they'd.
S8: Show me pictures.
S6: Of their decked out tank and tell stories about how
S6: much their kids loved the fish. And those were really
S6: special times.
S1: Well, and what you did was so cool because you
S1: put a card with these animals that had been in
S1: the hospital and were recovering, and the card said hello.
S1: I arrived at the store sick, but I have since
S1: made a full recovery in the hospital. I prefer big
S1: food pellets and enjoy blowing bubbles in my free time.
S1: I like to wave my fins when people visit my tank.
S1: For more information, please ask a stall aquarist. So I
S1: love the fact that you personalize them. Um, you name
S1: them because only a marine biologist would do this. Letters
S1: of the Greek alphabet and your mom and dad would
S1: call them by name. You talk about pi. There's a
S1: wonderful story in there about how your dad very much
S1: had this relationship with this wonderful little baby, who would
S1: swim faster and faster when your dad walked into the room.
S1: There is so much more. I cannot believe this hour
S1: is over. Rachel, I want to tell my friends you're
S1: missing something. If you don't read this book, it's going
S1: to open your eyes to the majesty and the wonder
S1: of God and the world that he's created for us,
S1: all around us. So check it out. It's called If
S1: the Ocean Has a Soul written by my guest, Rachel Jordan. Rachel,
S1: thank you for a memorable conversation and a fabulous book.
S1: We'll see you next time, friends.