1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,399 S1: I have been looking forward to the conversation today because 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,000 S1: doctor Heather Holloman knows how to communicate. She knows how 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,440 S1: to ask good questions and then listen and start meaningful conversations. 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,520 S1: She's an expert on that. She is a professor of advanced, 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,080 S1: not just writing at Penn State Advanced Writing. She's written 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,000 S1: a number of books, including a series written for children 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,159 S1: 10 to 14 years of age. So if you have 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,280 S1: children in that age group, I want you to hear 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,200 S1: about these stories. But I had no idea the nerve 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,479 S1: I was going to touch in people's lives by asking 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,200 S1: a simple question on Facebook. Just a couple of hours ago, 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,960 S1: I posted, what middle school struggle are you still trying 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,350 S1: to overcome? Is anything you felt when you were 10 14 00:00:50,350 --> 00:00:54,000 S1: to 14 still hanging around? And the answers to that 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,200 S1: question are really deep, revealing. And I wonder if there's 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,920 S1: something redemptive that's going to happen by entertaining that question 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,560 S1: in your heart and mind today, let's find out on 18 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,840 S1: the program. From the heart to the heart. For the heart, 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,920 S1: we call it Chris Fabry Live. The website is Chris 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,880 S1: Fabry live.org. And we thank our team. Ryan McConaughey doing 21 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,640 S1: all things technical along with Lisa. Tricia is our producer. 22 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,160 S1: Josh will be answering your calls today's Wednesday. So tomorrow 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,039 S1: we send an email to my back fence partners with 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,800 S1: a link to a video. And this week, it's this 25 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,240 S1: encouraging video we did with the new president of Moody 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,840 S1: Bible Institute, Doctor Rick Nelson. We had a chat on 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,319 S1: Monday here on the program, and afterward I combed both 28 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,679 S1: of my hairs, and I asked him how people could 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,240 S1: pray for him. That was one of my questions. And 30 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:47,720 S1: he had three points. It's a president of a Bible college. 31 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,720 S1: Bible Institute has to have three points. I would love 32 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,560 S1: for you to see that. And if you sign up 33 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,520 S1: to become a back fence partner, you can. Meaning if 34 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,720 S1: you give an auto gift of any size each month. 35 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,960 S1: We have other gifts and perks for you, but the 36 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,280 S1: main point is you become a part of the program. 37 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,120 S1: You are a part of every conversation, every question. We 38 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,280 S1: entertain the program we're going to do today, and we 39 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,639 S1: are looking for six partners this month. Would you be 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,120 S1: one of them? Go to Chris Fabry live.org. You'll see 41 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,000 S1: how to become a back fence partner, Chris fabry.org. Or 42 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,480 S1: you can call us at 86695. And by the way, 43 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,280 S1: as a partner, you can request the resource that we 44 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,359 S1: offer each month. This month, I've been talking about Doctor 45 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,800 S1: Kathy Cook's book about resolving conflict with adult children. So 46 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,040 S1: you just let we don't send everything to you, but 47 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,640 S1: if you want what we're offering that month, then just 48 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,880 S1: let us know. So there's another reason to be a 49 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:54,600 S1: back fence partner. Chris fabry.org. Or call (866) 953-2279. Doctor Heather 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,030 S1: Holloman is an associate teaching professor of advanced writing at 51 00:02:59,190 --> 00:03:03,790 S1: Penn State. Now, let me let me stop there before 52 00:03:03,790 --> 00:03:08,990 S1: I introduce and say the rest of this. Penn State 53 00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:15,230 S1: Nittany Lions ten days ago entertained my alma mater, the 54 00:03:15,230 --> 00:03:20,150 S1: Marshall University thundering Herd. So it's the lions against the buffaloes. 55 00:03:20,150 --> 00:03:24,350 S1: And the buffaloes are an endangered species, and I thought 56 00:03:24,350 --> 00:03:29,750 S1: that the lions would be much kinder to Marshall the score. 57 00:03:29,910 --> 00:03:33,430 S1: Heather was. I know you weren't at the Happy Valley 58 00:03:33,470 --> 00:03:35,190 S1: at the at the game, were you on? 59 00:03:35,630 --> 00:03:38,270 S2: Oh, I was watching it. I was in Happy Valley. 60 00:03:38,630 --> 00:03:41,150 S2: I wasn't in the stadium. And I want to tell 61 00:03:41,150 --> 00:03:43,990 S2: you I'm very sorry for your loss. But you know, 62 00:03:44,030 --> 00:03:45,750 S2: we are the Nittany Lions. We are. 63 00:03:46,070 --> 00:03:49,150 S1: Okay. But let me just just enter into the pain 64 00:03:49,150 --> 00:03:53,750 S1: for just a minute. Here. It's 45 to nothing. 45. 65 00:03:53,790 --> 00:03:55,350 S1: You know, I guess you could say it could have 66 00:03:55,350 --> 00:04:00,790 S1: been worse. 45 to nothing. The Thundering Herd only got 67 00:04:00,830 --> 00:04:07,590 S1: one third of 11, one third down conversion the whole game. And, uh, 68 00:04:07,710 --> 00:04:11,950 S1: it just doesn't seem very kind to me. Uh, and 69 00:04:11,950 --> 00:04:14,950 S1: I see you as a kind person, but it just 70 00:04:14,950 --> 00:04:17,789 S1: didn't didn't come through on the football field. Why is that? 71 00:04:17,830 --> 00:04:21,669 S2: That's right. I'm very sorry. I don't have any. I 72 00:04:21,670 --> 00:04:23,750 S2: don't have any words. I was I was happy for 73 00:04:23,750 --> 00:04:25,950 S2: our football team, happy for our new coach. But I 74 00:04:25,950 --> 00:04:29,589 S2: understand the pain and I'm sorry. Chris. I am sorry 75 00:04:29,589 --> 00:04:30,430 S2: for your hurt. 76 00:04:30,589 --> 00:04:34,830 S1: Yeah, well, it's it's nowhere but up from here. That's right. 77 00:04:34,830 --> 00:04:35,590 S1: For my team. 78 00:04:35,790 --> 00:04:36,950 S2: Look on the bright side. 79 00:04:36,990 --> 00:04:40,589 S1: Yes, exactly. And how can you get beat 45? Nothing 80 00:04:40,589 --> 00:04:43,909 S1: in Happy Valley. There's nothing happy about that. I'm still 81 00:04:43,910 --> 00:04:46,950 S1: trying to figure that out. Okay, so, doctor, I'll start again. 82 00:04:46,950 --> 00:04:50,350 S1: Doctor Heather Holloman is a speaker and author. She's written 83 00:04:51,230 --> 00:04:55,070 S1: ten books now seated with Christ, living freely in a 84 00:04:55,070 --> 00:04:58,390 S1: culture of comparison. That kind of put you on to 85 00:04:58,430 --> 00:05:02,590 S1: a new trajectory in your life. We've talked about scent. 86 00:05:02,750 --> 00:05:06,830 S1: Living a life that invites others to Jesus. There's that 87 00:05:07,070 --> 00:05:11,589 S1: six question book that you did that your husband, Ashley. 88 00:05:11,630 --> 00:05:14,110 S1: As a matter of fact, there's a new ministry seated 89 00:05:14,110 --> 00:05:17,230 S1: and sent that you are part of that came out 90 00:05:17,230 --> 00:05:19,590 S1: of your your whole work here, right? 91 00:05:19,790 --> 00:05:22,589 S2: That's right. We were speaking a lot on identity in Christ, 92 00:05:22,630 --> 00:05:25,870 S2: being seated with Christ and then living a scent life. 93 00:05:26,070 --> 00:05:28,630 S2: And so ash and I, after we co-wrote scent, we 94 00:05:28,630 --> 00:05:32,429 S2: launched a ministry together called Seated and Scent that helps 95 00:05:32,430 --> 00:05:36,230 S2: coach pastors and encourages churches in the area of evangelism. 96 00:05:36,230 --> 00:05:38,910 S2: And it's been a really exciting past two years as 97 00:05:38,910 --> 00:05:40,070 S2: we've been doing that work. 98 00:05:40,310 --> 00:05:43,230 S1: Yes. See, and you were with crew and so you 99 00:05:43,230 --> 00:05:45,349 S1: stopped doing you can't do everything. So you had to 100 00:05:45,390 --> 00:05:46,790 S1: leave that and start this. 101 00:05:47,029 --> 00:05:50,670 S2: Ash was a national director of graduate student ministries for crew. 102 00:05:50,710 --> 00:05:53,270 S2: We worked for crew for 25 years. I'm still a 103 00:05:53,390 --> 00:05:56,029 S2: faculty fellow with Cru, which means I'm involved in the 104 00:05:56,029 --> 00:05:59,150 S2: professor Ministry of Cru, and I'll be talking about that 105 00:05:59,150 --> 00:06:02,430 S2: this weekend up in Gettysburg talking about the importance of 106 00:06:02,589 --> 00:06:06,270 S2: faculty ministry. So I deeply love Cru. I'm still involved 107 00:06:06,270 --> 00:06:10,550 S2: as a volunteer and, and now I love really encouraging 108 00:06:10,550 --> 00:06:13,790 S2: churches and ministries in the area of evangelism. 109 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:17,030 S1: Yeah, you do an awful lot of that. And, and 110 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:20,230 S1: I really mean it. Your main thing is communication. You 111 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:23,710 S1: ask good questions and you listen. And one of the 112 00:06:23,710 --> 00:06:26,070 S1: things that has been on your heart over the last 113 00:06:26,070 --> 00:06:31,100 S1: few years is the middle grade audience, the 10 to 114 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:34,270 S1: 14 year olds. And that's why you wrote this four book. 115 00:06:34,310 --> 00:06:39,750 S1: Alita Brown series starts with this seat's saved, and then 116 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:44,710 S1: the disappearing seat, the elite seat, and just out. This 117 00:06:44,710 --> 00:06:50,710 S1: seat's yours. We have a link to that@chris.org. Chris Fabriclive 118 00:06:50,710 --> 00:06:54,620 S1: dot ORG. why was this on your heart to write? 119 00:06:55,540 --> 00:06:59,099 S2: Well, Ephesians two, where we read that God raised us 120 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:01,740 S2: up with Christ and seated us with him in the 121 00:07:01,740 --> 00:07:05,100 S2: heavenly realms in Christ Jesus. When I read Ephesians two 122 00:07:05,420 --> 00:07:08,339 S2: and thought about my seat with Jesus, it's exactly like 123 00:07:08,339 --> 00:07:12,700 S2: you said Chris. With that Facebook post, I remembered every table. 124 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:16,620 S2: I was never invited to sit down. I remembered not 125 00:07:16,620 --> 00:07:19,940 S2: having a seat in middle school in particular. And that 126 00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:23,300 S2: day I began to think, wait, I'm already seated at 127 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:26,020 S2: the greatest table with the greatest king. Why has no 128 00:07:26,020 --> 00:07:28,860 S2: one taught me that? I'm seated with Jesus? And I 129 00:07:28,860 --> 00:07:31,500 S2: went back to that seventh grade year. I remember exactly 130 00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:33,300 S2: where I was when I knew I didn't have a 131 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:36,100 S2: seat at the popular table, and I was carrying that 132 00:07:36,140 --> 00:07:38,700 S2: wound of fighting for a seat all the way up 133 00:07:38,740 --> 00:07:40,540 S2: until my 40s. Wow. 134 00:07:41,140 --> 00:07:44,100 S1: And is it still there? Well, the pain is still there. 135 00:07:44,100 --> 00:07:46,100 S1: You can still access it, right? 136 00:07:46,620 --> 00:07:49,220 S2: Well, I can access the memory. But the joy of 137 00:07:49,220 --> 00:07:53,100 S2: Ephesians two is when I realized, okay, I'm already seated 138 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:55,620 S2: at the best table with Jesus. It really began to 139 00:07:55,660 --> 00:07:58,860 S2: heal that part of me that was still fighting for 140 00:07:58,860 --> 00:08:01,980 S2: a seat. Because when you realize you're already seated with Jesus, 141 00:08:01,980 --> 00:08:04,020 S2: you think to yourself, okay, I'm not the best table 142 00:08:04,020 --> 00:08:06,940 S2: with Jesus. This is the life you've given me. You 143 00:08:06,940 --> 00:08:09,220 S2: know that he's given me. And then I talk about 144 00:08:09,220 --> 00:08:11,940 S2: in the adult book, Seated with Christ, how you can, 145 00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:14,100 S2: you know, in that seat with Jesus, you really have 146 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:16,300 S2: everything you need. You can access all the riches of 147 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:20,140 S2: God's kingdom. It's such a picture of belonging and intimacy. 148 00:08:20,540 --> 00:08:23,940 S2: And it really began to heal all those places where 149 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:25,860 S2: I was fighting for a seat. I even made a 150 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:27,860 S2: list of like, here are all the places I wish 151 00:08:27,860 --> 00:08:30,100 S2: I had a seat. And I thought, I don't need 152 00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:32,939 S2: to be here because I'm at the table with Jesus. 153 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:36,059 S2: And it really renewed my intimacy with him. And I 154 00:08:36,059 --> 00:08:38,300 S2: got to experience what it was like to know I 155 00:08:38,300 --> 00:08:40,140 S2: was at that great table with him. 156 00:08:40,220 --> 00:08:44,100 S1: So what you're talking about is really is a theological point. 157 00:08:44,140 --> 00:08:47,300 S1: How and I think of that as mainly in your brain. 158 00:08:47,340 --> 00:08:50,700 S1: You know, you're thinking these things. How do you get it? 159 00:08:50,820 --> 00:08:54,220 S1: The 12in from up here down to the where the 160 00:08:54,220 --> 00:08:57,660 S1: heart is. How do you really believe that and walk 161 00:08:57,700 --> 00:08:58,940 S1: walk into it? 162 00:08:59,300 --> 00:09:01,699 S2: Well, a couple of things happened that day. The first 163 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:04,300 S2: is I began to ask questions like, okay, Paul's in 164 00:09:04,300 --> 00:09:07,740 S2: a room in prison, and yet he's somehow picturing that 165 00:09:07,740 --> 00:09:10,860 S2: he's seated with Jesus. And he even tells us in Colossians, 166 00:09:10,860 --> 00:09:13,540 S2: set your mind here where Christ is seated at the 167 00:09:13,540 --> 00:09:16,660 S2: right hand of God. And, you know, I had middle 168 00:09:16,660 --> 00:09:19,540 S2: school daughters at the time who were really experiencing a 169 00:09:19,540 --> 00:09:23,500 S2: lot of middle school rejection, all of that. And I thought, 170 00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:26,900 S2: wait a second, how do I help both myself and 171 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:30,020 S2: my children? Picture what Paul was picturing. He's in a 172 00:09:30,020 --> 00:09:33,540 S2: Roman prison and somehow picturing himself in a different reality. 173 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:36,380 S2: So for us, I don't know what Paul was picturing, 174 00:09:36,380 --> 00:09:39,460 S2: but it really helped us to think of an image 175 00:09:39,460 --> 00:09:42,059 S2: of it. So I talked to my girls about you're 176 00:09:42,059 --> 00:09:44,660 S2: seated at a great table. Jesus chose you for this 177 00:09:44,660 --> 00:09:47,580 S2: table and for us. We pictured King Arthur and the 178 00:09:47,580 --> 00:09:50,620 S2: Knights of the Round Table, and they were really able 179 00:09:50,620 --> 00:09:52,860 S2: to think about it. Like when you walk in a room. 180 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:55,900 S2: Picture that you are like Guinevere. You've been invited to 181 00:09:55,940 --> 00:09:58,339 S2: the royal table, so you don't have to think about 182 00:09:58,340 --> 00:10:00,700 S2: what seats you're not being invited to. And for at 183 00:10:00,740 --> 00:10:03,579 S2: least my 11 year old, she really got it. She 184 00:10:03,580 --> 00:10:05,420 S2: was like, oh, that makes sense. I, you know, walking 185 00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:08,059 S2: into the lunchroom, I don't have to feel that rejection 186 00:10:08,059 --> 00:10:11,220 S2: as much anymore. So for me, it's trying to picture it. 187 00:10:11,220 --> 00:10:16,020 S2: And then also realizing this was a theological concept for 188 00:10:16,020 --> 00:10:18,940 S2: Paul that was so real to him that in the 189 00:10:18,940 --> 00:10:21,100 S2: midst of being in a Roman prison, he could picture 190 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:23,740 S2: himself in a different reality with Jesus. And it is 191 00:10:23,740 --> 00:10:27,140 S2: a past tense verb, which means it's already true of 192 00:10:27,140 --> 00:10:30,300 S2: us in part, but it will become a more of 193 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:33,699 S2: a reality when we're in, you know, eternity with Jesus. 194 00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:36,540 S2: But it's one of those weird theological verbs that it's like, 195 00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:39,100 S2: it's happening now, but it's going to happen more fully, 196 00:10:39,380 --> 00:10:41,020 S2: you know, in, in eternity. 197 00:10:41,780 --> 00:10:45,540 S1: We have that series linked. If you go to chris.org, 198 00:10:45,580 --> 00:10:48,170 S1: you'll see more about Heather, you can link to her 199 00:10:48,170 --> 00:10:51,329 S1: website as well. There's a seated and sent website that 200 00:10:51,330 --> 00:10:54,090 S1: we mentioned just a little bit ago, but that four 201 00:10:54,090 --> 00:10:58,250 S1: book series in the Alita Brown series is all of 202 00:10:58,250 --> 00:11:00,210 S1: them are out now. And I wanted to tell you 203 00:11:00,210 --> 00:11:03,330 S1: about that today, but I wonder if we open the 204 00:11:03,330 --> 00:11:06,210 S1: phone lines. And I asked you this question that I 205 00:11:06,210 --> 00:11:08,770 S1: asked on Facebook. I want to read a couple of 206 00:11:08,770 --> 00:11:12,210 S1: responses that came in from that. But as you listen today, 207 00:11:12,730 --> 00:11:16,210 S1: how would you answer that question? What middle school struggle 208 00:11:16,490 --> 00:11:19,730 S1: are you still trying to overcome? Is there anything that 209 00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:23,530 S1: you felt when you were 10 to 14 that is 210 00:11:23,530 --> 00:11:31,130 S1: still hanging around in your life? (877) 548-3675. I promise you, 211 00:11:31,130 --> 00:11:34,410 S1: there is encouragement ahead for you. And if you share 212 00:11:34,410 --> 00:11:38,330 S1: your story with us today, it might encourage somebody else. 213 00:11:38,530 --> 00:11:55,570 S1: (877) 548-3675 more straight ahead on Moody Radio. This is Chris 214 00:11:55,610 --> 00:11:57,610 S1: Fabry Live. Thanks a lot for joining us today. Doctor 215 00:11:57,610 --> 00:12:01,330 S1: Heather Holloman is at the Radio Backyard fence. One of 216 00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:03,250 S1: the things I like about her is she is in 217 00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:08,530 S1: the marketplace. She's a professor at Penn State University. And 218 00:12:08,530 --> 00:12:11,370 S1: if you go to Chris fabriclive.org, we've got a link 219 00:12:11,650 --> 00:12:15,010 S1: to that four book series that we mentioned just a 220 00:12:15,010 --> 00:12:18,130 S1: little bit ago, the Alita Brown series. The last book, 221 00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:21,810 S1: This SEAT's Yours is out. But I put this question 222 00:12:21,809 --> 00:12:24,770 S1: up on Facebook. What middle school struggle you're still trying 223 00:12:24,770 --> 00:12:27,650 S1: to overcome? What do you respond to a couple of these? 224 00:12:27,650 --> 00:12:31,290 S1: Hannah says, I'm worried what people think of me. AM 225 00:12:31,290 --> 00:12:34,130 S1: I doing a good enough job on the right or 226 00:12:34,130 --> 00:12:37,650 S1: the right work in my workplace? And yet, every day 227 00:12:37,650 --> 00:12:40,209 S1: I take it to Jesus knowing I am good enough. 228 00:12:40,210 --> 00:12:42,650 S1: And don't worry about what the world thinks of you, 229 00:12:42,850 --> 00:12:47,170 S1: just God. So there is that. There is that identity 230 00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:51,690 S1: piece in Hannah's life. And then Catherine says, junior high 231 00:12:51,690 --> 00:12:55,290 S1: and high school was okay. I was bullied in elementary school, 232 00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:58,210 S1: and even once as a 50 year old at work, 233 00:12:58,210 --> 00:13:03,290 S1: I had low self-esteem. Now, finally in my 60s, I 234 00:13:03,330 --> 00:13:06,610 S1: am much more confident. That's due to knowing how much 235 00:13:06,610 --> 00:13:11,089 S1: Jesus loves me. And one more. Kevin said, yes, I 236 00:13:11,130 --> 00:13:15,450 S1: you know, it's still hanging along. I'm still worried about 237 00:13:15,450 --> 00:13:19,010 S1: if I fit in and if everyone is laughing under 238 00:13:19,010 --> 00:13:22,290 S1: their breath at me. Some of that never goes away, 239 00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:26,010 S1: even at the age of 65. So what do you 240 00:13:26,010 --> 00:13:27,530 S1: think of what I'm hearing here? 241 00:13:27,809 --> 00:13:30,050 S2: Well, first of all, I love the encouragement of the 242 00:13:30,050 --> 00:13:32,770 S2: first two and just going to Jesus. And one of 243 00:13:32,770 --> 00:13:36,929 S2: the encouraging things about Ephesians two is the last part. 244 00:13:36,970 --> 00:13:40,770 S2: Ephesians 210 says that we're God's handiwork, created in Christ 245 00:13:40,770 --> 00:13:44,530 S2: Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance 246 00:13:44,530 --> 00:13:46,449 S2: for us to do. So when you're at work and 247 00:13:46,450 --> 00:13:49,690 S2: you're worried about like, what am I doing? Just ask God. God, 248 00:13:49,690 --> 00:13:51,569 S2: what are the good works you prepared for me? And 249 00:13:51,570 --> 00:13:54,130 S2: I don't need to compare them to anyone else. I 250 00:13:54,130 --> 00:13:56,650 S2: don't need to be jealous of other people's achievements. So 251 00:13:56,650 --> 00:14:00,089 S2: I love that response. Just go to Jesus. The idea that, 252 00:14:00,130 --> 00:14:02,730 S2: you know, do I fit in? I even felt I 253 00:14:02,730 --> 00:14:05,370 S2: was at a basketball banquet last week. I walked in 254 00:14:05,370 --> 00:14:07,570 S2: and I was like, I do not fit in here. I'm, 255 00:14:07,610 --> 00:14:09,569 S2: you know, I'm with the wealthy of my community. And 256 00:14:09,570 --> 00:14:12,810 S2: I had that same feeling like I'm not dressed. Right. 257 00:14:12,809 --> 00:14:16,290 S2: And then I remembered, wait, Jesus, I'm seated with you. 258 00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:20,290 S2: You know that I'm here now. Who can I encourage? 259 00:14:20,290 --> 00:14:22,690 S2: I was able to take my eyes off myself and say, okay, 260 00:14:22,690 --> 00:14:25,090 S2: who else maybe doesn't have a seat that I can 261 00:14:25,090 --> 00:14:28,010 S2: gather and, you know, bring them to my table? And 262 00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:30,610 S2: that's really how the series ends. That's why it's called 263 00:14:30,610 --> 00:14:33,450 S2: This SEAT's Yours, because the character gets to the point 264 00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:36,250 S2: where she's so secure in her seat with Jesus that 265 00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:38,810 S2: she's able to invite others to the table. And I 266 00:14:38,810 --> 00:14:41,890 S2: think that really has healed me to think, okay, I'm 267 00:14:41,890 --> 00:14:44,490 S2: seated and now I'm sent to go be a blessing 268 00:14:44,530 --> 00:14:47,170 S2: to others. But you do walk through that middle school 269 00:14:47,170 --> 00:14:52,330 S2: year is all about insecurity, jealousy, bullying. It's really a 270 00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:55,090 S2: very difficult time and I care so deeply about that 271 00:14:55,090 --> 00:14:55,850 S2: age group. 272 00:14:56,650 --> 00:15:01,570 S1: But you can't get anybody, no matter what age. You 273 00:15:01,610 --> 00:15:05,490 S1: can't get anybody to that place where they see, oh, 274 00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:10,130 S1: I can, I can find somebody who's not accepted and 275 00:15:10,130 --> 00:15:13,370 S1: befriend them. And I'm using the feeling that I have 276 00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:15,690 S1: in a positive way. I mean, you can you can 277 00:15:15,690 --> 00:15:19,690 S1: encourage that, but it has to be something that the 278 00:15:19,690 --> 00:15:23,650 S1: person themselves, no matter what their age that they choose, 279 00:15:23,650 --> 00:15:27,290 S1: you can't push them from the wound, from the pain 280 00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:29,370 S1: too quickly. Do you agree with that? 281 00:15:29,970 --> 00:15:31,850 S2: I do, and I also think it's the work of 282 00:15:31,850 --> 00:15:34,930 S2: the Holy Spirit in a young mind who's reading the Bible, 283 00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:37,730 S2: you know, my character begins to journal and read the Bible, 284 00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:41,040 S2: and her mentor says some things to her that really stick. 285 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,360 S2: One of the things is this quote that's become a 286 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,160 S2: family motto for us, and that is every rejection is 287 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,200 S2: God's protection, because she realizes that there were some blessings 288 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,960 S2: in not being invited to the popular table. And she 289 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,240 S2: begins to think, wait, if God knows me and loves 290 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,560 S2: me and is good, some of the things that he 291 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,360 S2: may be withholding from me are for my own protection 292 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,680 S2: or blessing. And again, these are deeply theological concepts. These 293 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,320 S2: are things that women my age debate around theological tables. 294 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,720 S2: You know, God's providence, God's goodness. You know, how do 295 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,680 S2: you apply Romans eight? But for young readers to be 296 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,960 S2: able to tell them, look, God sees you. He's so 297 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,800 S2: good that things that happen to you that seem terrible, 298 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,000 S2: you can actually trust him to be there for you 299 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,720 S2: and to somehow, in some mysterious way, make it work 300 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,160 S2: for your good, which is what we learn in Romans eight. 301 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,960 S2: So this is a book where a character really has 302 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,800 S2: to grapple with really what we all ask in seventh grade, 303 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,560 S2: which is why are bad things happening to me? Where 304 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,720 S2: are you, Jesus? And how do I gain some confidence 305 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,440 S2: in my appearance and the things that I feel like 306 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,680 S2: I'm good at? You know, all of all of us. 307 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,600 S2: I've never met one person who didn't struggle in the 308 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,720 S2: middle school years. 309 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,400 S1: So the whole series then is the seventh grade year, right? 310 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,240 S2: Yes. It starts in the fall when she gets that 311 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,400 S2: rejection from the middle school lunch room table. And then 312 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,639 S2: it ends in the summer when she is so confident 313 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,520 S2: that she's able to go into eighth grade thinking, I'm 314 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,800 S2: not worried about my seat. I'm going to take a 315 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,240 S2: seat and invite others to join me at my table. 316 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,240 S2: So it's a really moment of transformation and maturity for her. 317 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,880 S2: And one of the verses she begins to really take 318 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,880 S2: to heart is Proverbs 11, where it says, he who 319 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:29,080 S2: refreshes others will himself be refreshed. And she starts thinking, wait, 320 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,880 S2: if I start encouraging other people, it makes me happy. 321 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,359 S2: So she just has all these life transformations that are 322 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,320 S2: really quite mature, but something that young people can begin 323 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:38,960 S2: to grasp. 324 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,600 S1: Does your football team lose 45 to nothing? 325 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,440 S2: No, but she does deal with a lot of jealousy. 326 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,600 S2: She even has a bully. She has people mock her 327 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,280 S2: on social media. They have. She has people make fun 328 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,280 S2: of her appearance. And so there's a lot of tears. 329 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,320 S2: There's a lot of journaling and reading her Bible for 330 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,399 S2: the first time when I was 12 years old. I 331 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,040 S2: don't know if your listeners can relate. I was 12 332 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,560 S2: years old crying in my bedroom when I first read 333 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,359 S2: the Psalms for the very first time and felt the 334 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,159 S2: presence of Jesus in my life. I remember that day 335 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,560 S2: so clearly with my, you know, my flowered bedspread. And 336 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,040 S2: I was just praying like, God help me, I'm crying. 337 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,600 S2: Things are so sad and I'll never forget. I read 338 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,880 S2: in the Psalms, tears may flow in the night, but 339 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,800 S2: joy comes through the Lord in the morning. And that 340 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,480 S2: was the first time I ever felt the Holy Spirit 341 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,640 S2: speaking to me through the Bible. Like, this is going 342 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,320 S2: to be okay. I can fill your life with joy. 343 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,080 S1: I think I told you when that first book came 344 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,600 S1: out that it reminded me of a modern day Jane Eyre, 345 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,639 S1: in a way. Do you remember me saying that to you? 346 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,399 S2: I feel like you gave me such encouragement when that 347 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,520 S2: book came out that it felt like, yeah, like a 348 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,000 S2: modern day. Like, how do you think about this girl? 349 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,680 S2: Just what is life going to be for me? What? 350 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,680 S2: Where are the good things in life? How, what's my 351 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,480 S2: path towards abundant life? Which is really the question we're 352 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,360 S2: all asking. I mean, years later in college, it was 353 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,480 S2: John 1010 that really brought me to a rededication in Christ, 354 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,600 S2: because that's the verse that says, the thief comes to kill, 355 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,680 S2: steal and destroy. But I have come that you may 356 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,600 S2: have life and have it abundantly. And I thought, well, 357 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,960 S2: whatever I'm doing in college at University of Virginia, this 358 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,440 S2: is not life. I need a new path. I need 359 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,879 S2: to figure out the life that is truly life. So 360 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,959 S2: that's really this book is about that. What does it 361 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,679 S2: mean to truly live? What matters? What's going to bring joy? 362 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,560 S2: What is friendship? What is going to fill my soul? 363 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,399 S2: What does it mean to walk along the kind of 364 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,630 S2: what the Bible says, the ancient paths that lead to, 365 00:19:37,910 --> 00:19:39,190 S2: you know, peace and joy. 366 00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:43,149 S1: Yeah. Heather Holloman is with us. Doctor Heather Holloman. Don't 367 00:19:43,150 --> 00:19:47,590 S1: you forget that. And if you go to chris.org. When 368 00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:50,510 S1: I had Heather on talking about this seat's saved, I 369 00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:54,109 S1: said that thing about the Jane Eyre doing social media 370 00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:57,750 S1: is basically what I was thinking of. But it's more 371 00:19:57,750 --> 00:20:02,110 S1: than that. And it and it speaks into our lives today. 372 00:20:02,109 --> 00:20:06,150 S1: And that's why I posted that question on Facebook asking 373 00:20:06,150 --> 00:20:09,030 S1: you about what middle school struggle are you still striving 374 00:20:09,070 --> 00:20:12,470 S1: to overcome? Uh, go to Chris Fabry live.org. You'll see 375 00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:17,469 S1: more about Doctor Holloman there. Jana is in Florida. Jana, 376 00:20:17,470 --> 00:20:18,630 S1: why did you call today? 377 00:20:19,910 --> 00:20:22,750 S3: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. This is such 378 00:20:22,790 --> 00:20:26,669 S3: a great conversation and I can really relate to it, 379 00:20:26,670 --> 00:20:30,830 S3: even myself and my my daughter. But in those those 380 00:20:30,869 --> 00:20:35,710 S3: years of my life, my family was in crisis Mhm. And, um. 381 00:20:36,030 --> 00:20:40,710 S3: And even they were literally there was crisis in my family. 382 00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:45,350 S3: And I, I wasn't raised by my mom. Um, I was, 383 00:20:45,390 --> 00:20:49,510 S3: my family was not at all Christian believers, not even 384 00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:54,950 S3: make believers. They just weren't. Um, and funny enough, I had, um, 385 00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:58,109 S3: one of my step siblings, um, that worked at a 386 00:20:58,150 --> 00:21:01,830 S3: donut shop. She had entertained some missionaries that came in 387 00:21:01,830 --> 00:21:06,270 S3: from the city. And, um, I had given my life 388 00:21:06,270 --> 00:21:09,630 S3: to the Lord when I was 11 or 12 and 389 00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:14,550 S3: really didn't understand the fullness of that. Even reading scripture, 390 00:21:14,550 --> 00:21:18,070 S3: there was stories that I would read. I loved Genesis, um, 391 00:21:18,109 --> 00:21:22,030 S3: but didn't have a full comprehension of it. Um, and 392 00:21:22,030 --> 00:21:27,870 S3: so I, I always felt like, like just not fitting 393 00:21:27,869 --> 00:21:29,990 S3: in at the seat, even though, you know, they were 394 00:21:30,030 --> 00:21:33,230 S3: and then always the pretty girls, the mean girls table 395 00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:38,629 S3: and so forth. And I carried that wound into into adulthood. 396 00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:42,110 S3: But I remember even then, like I would read the 397 00:21:42,109 --> 00:21:46,950 S3: story of Joseph with his brothers in Genesis and the 398 00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:48,990 S3: part that would always mess me up and it still 399 00:21:48,990 --> 00:21:51,790 S3: messes me up is the part when you know, they're 400 00:21:51,790 --> 00:21:55,070 S3: reunited and they're going to eat. And, and here is, 401 00:21:55,109 --> 00:21:58,790 S3: you know, Joseph and now he's this prime minister in 402 00:21:58,790 --> 00:22:01,869 S3: this foreign country. And, you know, he's the second in command. 403 00:22:02,030 --> 00:22:06,190 S3: But even then, um, in that government where he was 404 00:22:06,190 --> 00:22:10,430 S3: in that position that he was with all of, you know, 405 00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:14,150 S3: the clout that he had, he still wasn't welcomed even 406 00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:18,510 S3: in the Egyptian table. And so it always just like, 407 00:22:18,550 --> 00:22:20,710 S3: you know, I would just and I still, I think, 408 00:22:20,750 --> 00:22:24,430 S3: and I sit on that and, and it was like, wow, Lord, like, man, 409 00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:27,750 S3: you know, he was cast out by his own family. 410 00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:30,230 S3: And that's what I felt like. You know, I felt 411 00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:34,150 S3: like that because even though my because my parents were 412 00:22:34,150 --> 00:22:38,390 S3: not together and and I had an abusive stepparent. Um, 413 00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:42,510 S3: and so I would like identify with like, like his, 414 00:22:42,550 --> 00:22:45,750 S3: his heartbreak even now, you know, I'm 55 years old 415 00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:48,830 S3: and I, I read the story and I can almost 416 00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:52,430 S3: feel the sadness, the fact that it's penned in there. 417 00:22:52,670 --> 00:22:57,470 S3: And yet in the New Testament, you know, the Lord 418 00:22:57,470 --> 00:23:02,070 S3: makes clear that, you know, and he was always with Joseph. And, and, 419 00:23:02,109 --> 00:23:07,270 S3: you know, recently it just landed differently. And in Psalm 105, 420 00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:09,869 S3: I believe it says, you know, that God really tested 421 00:23:09,869 --> 00:23:14,790 S3: Joseph until, until, until the fullness of his time. You know, 422 00:23:14,830 --> 00:23:16,430 S3: God married him. 423 00:23:16,590 --> 00:23:20,910 S1: Janet, this 55 has been 55 years. And you still 424 00:23:20,910 --> 00:23:25,550 S1: can go back to that moment and the feelings there. 425 00:23:25,550 --> 00:23:28,710 S1: And I hear it in your voice, Heather, there's something 426 00:23:28,750 --> 00:23:31,580 S1: there's something interesting that's going on there in that story. 427 00:23:31,619 --> 00:23:34,740 S2: Well, I love how much you love scripture and how 428 00:23:34,740 --> 00:23:36,980 S2: it just resonates in your soul. And I love I 429 00:23:37,020 --> 00:23:39,660 S2: read the Bible that way to where I can really identify. 430 00:23:39,859 --> 00:23:42,899 S2: You know, what got me was actually the story of Mephibosheth, 431 00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:46,619 S2: where he did not belong at the King's table at all. And, 432 00:23:46,859 --> 00:23:49,659 S2: you know, he gets a seat at the table. And 433 00:23:49,660 --> 00:23:53,100 S2: I love that. And I love thinking of Psalm 23, 434 00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:55,860 S2: that he prepares a table for us in the presence 435 00:23:55,859 --> 00:23:59,340 S2: of our enemies and all the little images of God. 436 00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:02,060 S2: You know, bringing a seat for us has helped heal 437 00:24:02,060 --> 00:24:04,500 S2: that little spot in me when I when I agree 438 00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:08,100 S2: about that Joseph's story, even then, he was still an outsider. 439 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:11,620 S2: There's a lot in the Bible about outsiders. And how 440 00:24:11,619 --> 00:24:13,820 S2: do you solve this problem of feeling like, where do 441 00:24:13,820 --> 00:24:16,659 S2: I fit? That's why I love Seated with Christ, because 442 00:24:16,660 --> 00:24:19,580 S2: it's such an image of inclusion. Like to think you're 443 00:24:19,580 --> 00:24:22,700 S2: seated there and you don't have to be superior to 444 00:24:22,740 --> 00:24:25,660 S2: anyone or inferior to anyone. That's why I love the 445 00:24:25,660 --> 00:24:28,140 S2: King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. Nobody's 446 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,060 S2: better than anyone else. They're all equal. That's why it's 447 00:24:31,060 --> 00:24:34,140 S2: a round table that's really helped me over the years. Think, okay, 448 00:24:34,180 --> 00:24:38,220 S2: I'm seated here and, um, God has good works for me. 449 00:24:38,420 --> 00:24:41,020 S2: And he chose me for the things that I'm doing. 450 00:24:41,020 --> 00:24:43,860 S2: And I don't need to worry anymore about where I fit. 451 00:24:44,260 --> 00:24:48,780 S1: Yeah. The other part of that story, though, is the forgiveness, 452 00:24:48,780 --> 00:24:54,980 S1: the reconciliation that comes. And again, we I hate to 453 00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:56,740 S1: throw stones at the church, but a lot of times 454 00:24:56,740 --> 00:25:00,100 S1: we want to push people to forgive, forgive, forgive before 455 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:02,659 S1: they're ready, before they, you know, there's a, there's a 456 00:25:02,660 --> 00:25:05,780 S1: process that goes on there and a process that I 457 00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:09,300 S1: hear Janet talking about as well in her own life. 458 00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:12,540 S1: So call time out right there, will take the halfway 459 00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:17,060 S1: point here and regroup, uh, in the, in the locker 460 00:25:17,060 --> 00:25:19,580 S1: room with doctor Heather Holloman. If you want to go 461 00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:23,100 S1: to the website, Chris fabriclive.org and I hope you will, 462 00:25:23,380 --> 00:25:27,420 S1: you'll see our featured resource today that for book series, 463 00:25:27,820 --> 00:25:31,740 S1: This seat saved the disappearing seat, the elite seat, and 464 00:25:31,740 --> 00:25:36,140 S1: this seat's yours, which is out now. All four of those. 465 00:25:36,619 --> 00:25:41,340 S1: You can find it at Chris Fabry, live.org. Chris fabry.org. 466 00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:44,780 S1: What about you? Do you have these things hanging over 467 00:25:44,780 --> 00:25:52,380 S1: from junior high or middle school? (877) 548-3675 more straight ahead. 468 00:26:05,540 --> 00:26:09,380 S1: Doctor Heather Holloman is associate teaching professor of advanced writing 469 00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:13,780 S1: at Penn State. And if you go to Chris Fabry 470 00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:17,739 S1: live.org and scroll down, you will see a lot of 471 00:26:17,780 --> 00:26:21,379 S1: the things that we've talked about here in the last 472 00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:27,219 S1: few years, six conversations that we talked about and this 473 00:26:27,220 --> 00:26:31,859 S1: seat saved the fiction. The first book actually won an award. 474 00:26:31,859 --> 00:26:34,300 S1: It was the Christianity Today Book of the year and 475 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:36,700 S1: the young adult category that that was a shot in 476 00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:37,620 S1: the arm, wasn't it? 477 00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:41,460 S2: That was exciting. Yes. I think it really resonated with people. 478 00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:43,140 S2: So I was really grateful for that. 479 00:26:43,619 --> 00:26:46,820 S1: Well, it's resonating with people today because I want you 480 00:26:46,940 --> 00:26:50,340 S1: to read you what Diane says on Facebook. I went 481 00:26:50,340 --> 00:26:53,300 S1: to a small church school in upstate New York. There 482 00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:56,139 S1: was a distinction between the haves and the have nots. 483 00:26:56,540 --> 00:26:59,420 S1: Not only this, but because there were families with multiple 484 00:26:59,420 --> 00:27:02,899 S1: kids in the school. It was open season for bullying. 485 00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:06,179 S1: That's a continual theme that I'm seeing here, the bullying 486 00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:10,060 S1: my parents saved up enough to buy me my own 487 00:27:10,060 --> 00:27:14,500 S1: softball glove for my 13th birthday, and it was stolen 488 00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,979 S1: from me after having had it only two weeks at 489 00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:23,740 S1: a all caps church school. This was never investigated, nor 490 00:27:23,740 --> 00:27:27,699 S1: did I find the glove. So Diana is walking around 491 00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:30,900 S1: Gloveless even today. I clearly was one of the have 492 00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:33,340 S1: nots and often was the target of the bullying. There 493 00:27:33,380 --> 00:27:36,580 S1: are several of us adults from that church school who suffered, 494 00:27:36,940 --> 00:27:39,540 S1: and I know at least two went to counseling. One 495 00:27:39,540 --> 00:27:43,140 S1: adult probably should have sought counseling as she is stuck 496 00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:47,180 S1: in this era that says so much and more than 497 00:27:47,180 --> 00:27:50,540 S1: ten left the church. If I had children, sending them 498 00:27:50,540 --> 00:27:52,780 S1: to a parochial school would not have even been a 499 00:27:52,780 --> 00:27:58,700 S1: consideration for me. That's how deep the wound was for Diane. And, 500 00:27:58,940 --> 00:28:02,180 S1: you know, immediately, as soon as I asked that question 501 00:28:02,180 --> 00:28:06,500 S1: about middle school and today, that was her response. What 502 00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:07,020 S1: do you think? 503 00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:09,980 S2: Wow. Well, you know, there is a bully in the book, 504 00:28:10,020 --> 00:28:12,220 S2: and that's why I want children to read it and 505 00:28:12,220 --> 00:28:14,500 S2: talk to their parents about it, because she has to 506 00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:16,820 S2: figure out how she's going to handle this very mean 507 00:28:16,859 --> 00:28:20,340 S2: girl who ends up having to leave the school because 508 00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:23,889 S2: she's so hurtful to my character, Alita. But as you 509 00:28:23,890 --> 00:28:27,250 S2: read the series, you're going to see something very interesting 510 00:28:27,250 --> 00:28:30,730 S2: happen between these two characters, and it gives you perspective 511 00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:34,970 S2: on why bullies behave as they do. Usually, it's because 512 00:28:34,970 --> 00:28:37,970 S2: they're deeply hurt, and you're going to learn a little 513 00:28:38,010 --> 00:28:40,730 S2: bit of empathy there as a as a reader of 514 00:28:40,730 --> 00:28:41,570 S2: the series. 515 00:28:42,290 --> 00:28:46,210 S1: That'll happen to you when that. Isn't it interesting what 516 00:28:46,210 --> 00:28:48,490 S1: fiction can do to you because. 517 00:28:48,530 --> 00:28:49,770 S2: Yes, yes. 518 00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:53,130 S1: You, you, you take away the suspension of belief or 519 00:28:53,130 --> 00:28:55,410 S1: this is happening to me. And you just get into 520 00:28:55,410 --> 00:28:57,530 S1: the story. And when you do that, you start to 521 00:28:57,570 --> 00:29:00,930 S1: learn things not only about the story and the characters. 522 00:29:00,930 --> 00:29:02,970 S1: You learn things about yourself, don't you? 523 00:29:03,490 --> 00:29:05,530 S2: That's right. In fact, one of the reasons I care 524 00:29:05,530 --> 00:29:08,490 S2: so much about this series is just the trends in 525 00:29:08,490 --> 00:29:12,410 S2: reading for pleasure amongst middle schoolers. It's declining. You're not 526 00:29:12,410 --> 00:29:16,090 S2: seeing a lot of kids immersed in books, middle grade 527 00:29:16,090 --> 00:29:18,930 S2: books in particular. And you know, reading is so good 528 00:29:18,930 --> 00:29:21,290 S2: for you. It's so good for your brain development, for 529 00:29:21,290 --> 00:29:23,650 S2: your mental health. I don't know about you, but I 530 00:29:23,650 --> 00:29:27,130 S2: remember being that age and I loved, you know, trumpet 531 00:29:27,170 --> 00:29:30,490 S2: of the Swan. Charlotte's Web, the little House books. I 532 00:29:30,490 --> 00:29:33,810 S2: loved reading at that age. And so one thing I 533 00:29:33,810 --> 00:29:36,570 S2: love about these books is I really studied the art 534 00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:39,170 S2: of tension, how to keep a young reader engaged. So 535 00:29:39,170 --> 00:29:41,170 S2: these are the kind of books that a young reader 536 00:29:41,170 --> 00:29:42,610 S2: is not going to want to put down. They're going 537 00:29:42,650 --> 00:29:44,770 S2: to want to cozy up with them and read them. 538 00:29:44,770 --> 00:29:46,690 S2: And I think reading is so important for this age. 539 00:29:46,690 --> 00:29:49,250 S2: A lot of kids are on their phone at 13 540 00:29:49,290 --> 00:29:50,650 S2: instead of reading a book. 541 00:29:51,050 --> 00:29:55,250 S1: Yeah. And that's why it's so important. Um, I remember 542 00:29:55,290 --> 00:29:58,770 S1: reading where the Red Fern grows and I cried. 543 00:29:58,770 --> 00:30:01,170 S2: I cried and cried weeping. 544 00:30:01,210 --> 00:30:03,410 S1: And, you know, and my parents, I was sick at 545 00:30:03,410 --> 00:30:05,090 S1: the time, I think I was I was home from 546 00:30:05,090 --> 00:30:09,530 S1: school and my mom and dad came home and my 547 00:30:09,530 --> 00:30:11,530 S1: eyes were all red, and they thought that I was 548 00:30:11,530 --> 00:30:13,450 S1: even sicker than I was. And I didn't tell them 549 00:30:13,450 --> 00:30:16,730 S1: I was. I was reading about old Dan Little and but. 550 00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:17,450 S2: We just had. 551 00:30:17,810 --> 00:30:21,250 S1: Yeah, we just had a pet die, uh, in the 552 00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:24,170 S1: last couple of months. And one of the things that 553 00:30:24,170 --> 00:30:27,690 S1: I thought as we buried him was, I'm going to 554 00:30:27,730 --> 00:30:29,890 S1: wait for the Red Fern to grow here, you know? 555 00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:33,970 S2: Oh my goodness. Now everyone's gonna everyone who's listening is crying. 556 00:30:34,010 --> 00:30:36,930 S2: Who's read where the Red Fern grows. Is that the 557 00:30:36,970 --> 00:30:39,570 S2: book that really captured your heart for fiction? 558 00:30:40,930 --> 00:30:43,090 S1: It it was one of them. You know, I did 559 00:30:43,090 --> 00:30:46,210 S1: the Hardy Boys thing, and, uh, I loved those. I 560 00:30:46,210 --> 00:30:49,450 S1: had the detective handbook and actually wrote to the FBI 561 00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:53,650 S1: when I was ten and asked, you know, and I 562 00:30:53,650 --> 00:30:57,330 S1: still wonder if there's who the person was down in 563 00:30:57,690 --> 00:31:01,410 S1: the bowels of Quantico who, whose job it was to 564 00:31:01,450 --> 00:31:05,130 S1: write a ten year old who had responded to an ad. 565 00:31:05,130 --> 00:31:09,650 S1: And I still remember the feeling of my mother handing 566 00:31:09,650 --> 00:31:11,610 S1: me a note when I came home from school. You 567 00:31:11,650 --> 00:31:14,850 S1: gotta you got a letter from the FBI. But that 568 00:31:14,850 --> 00:31:16,850 S1: is what you know, it's like I wanted to be 569 00:31:16,890 --> 00:31:19,530 S1: I wanted to be a detective. I wanted to do this, 570 00:31:19,890 --> 00:31:23,370 S1: but I think it wasn't until that captured me. It 571 00:31:23,370 --> 00:31:27,730 S1: wasn't until I read To Kill a Mockingbird that it. 572 00:31:27,770 --> 00:31:31,410 S1: It hit me so deeply. What fiction can do? 573 00:31:31,570 --> 00:31:32,770 S2: Yes. What a great. 574 00:31:32,770 --> 00:31:34,450 S1: Open your mind. Yeah. 575 00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:37,810 S2: I love that book. I think Macomb County is one 576 00:31:37,810 --> 00:31:41,730 S2: of the best written settings in all of literature. And 577 00:31:41,730 --> 00:31:45,890 S2: I love I love teaching from that book about character development. And, 578 00:31:46,050 --> 00:31:48,490 S2: you know, we, I teach advanced writing, so we're more 579 00:31:48,490 --> 00:31:50,810 S2: focused on the craft of writing. But when I'm in 580 00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:53,730 S2: the literature courses, that is definitely a book I would 581 00:31:53,770 --> 00:31:57,690 S2: have students read and reread again. Atticus Finch, what a character. 582 00:31:58,250 --> 00:32:01,690 S1: Well, and he's known as in in literature as one. 583 00:32:01,730 --> 00:32:04,610 S1: And film two is one of the real heroes. And 584 00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:07,530 S1: there's nothing heroic in a sense about him. You know, 585 00:32:07,570 --> 00:32:09,410 S1: it was a super hero. It was just a lawyer 586 00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:13,250 S1: in a small town in Alabama. But he was given that, 587 00:32:13,250 --> 00:32:16,650 S1: he was put in that place in the story to 588 00:32:16,690 --> 00:32:20,560 S1: be this beacon of light, right? 589 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,240 S2: Right, right. And when you read these books, what's great. 590 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,600 S2: I love it when young people get in book clubs 591 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,000 S2: with their parents and they talk about the books together, 592 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,680 S2: because you can write about things, talk about things like that. 593 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,800 S2: Why is this character good hearted? What does it mean 594 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200 S2: to do the right thing in your community and stand 595 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,920 S2: up for other people? So it's not just reading the 596 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,200 S2: books by yourself, but talking about them with people. And really, 597 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,840 S2: you know why I could, I would love to have 598 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,240 S2: afternoon tea with you and talk about, you know, talk 599 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,040 S2: about To Kill a Mockingbird all afternoon. I love that book. 600 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,600 S1: How do we do this then? For children that are 601 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,440 S1: in this age group to you could take their phone 602 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,920 S1: away and then you could punish them with a book. 603 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,600 S1: You know, you've got to read this. And I know 604 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,680 S1: that's not going to work. How I think I know 605 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,400 S1: the answer to this question, but I want to see 606 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,600 S1: what you say. How do we capture the imagination of 607 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,360 S1: children for the the power of reading? 608 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,320 S2: Well, there's two things I recommend. First is just modeling 609 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,400 S2: it in the home. Being someone that loves to cozy 610 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,520 S2: up with a book, you know, get a really good snack. 611 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,760 S2: A cup of hot cocoa. Just have family reading time. 612 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,600 S2: And when you're reading a good book, it's just such 613 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,800 S2: a wonderful experience. And especially as fall and winter come, 614 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,360 S2: you know, modeling it as a family, this is what 615 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,000 S2: we do. We go, we read books like, I love 616 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,120 S2: going to the public library and just getting a big 617 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,640 S2: stack of books to read. The other thing I recommend 618 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,240 S2: is kids that are on their phone. There's power in 619 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,120 S2: social media influencers who talk about books they're reading and 620 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,240 S2: model for kids. How wonderful it is to get immersed 621 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,320 S2: in books, you know? And there are so many great 622 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,880 S2: series and you can follow, you know, on TikTok, BookTok 623 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,800 S2: or on Instagram, all the people who are talking about 624 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,640 S2: the books they're reading. That's one thing you can do 625 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,840 S2: if you're an influencer is encourage young people to read. 626 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,160 S2: If that's where they are, what would you have said? Chris. 627 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,000 S1: That's exactly. It's they catch it rather than being taught it. 628 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,560 S1: You know, you can tell a kid till you're blue 629 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,319 S1: in the face. You need to read. You need to 630 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,360 S1: learn how to read. It's great. It's so much fun. 631 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,359 S1: But they're they're going to catch it only if they 632 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,120 S1: see you doing it first. 633 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,040 S2: Right? And find books that have a lot of tension. 634 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,960 S2: I mean, you're a writer. You know how hard it 635 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,799 S2: is to get a get. You have to write in 636 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,880 S2: a way that the reader wants to turn the page. 637 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,799 S2: And I really tried to study that. How do you 638 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,400 S2: capture an eight year old reader? So how do you 639 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,360 S2: create enough unanswered questions and tension that they're going to 640 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,879 S2: keep reading till the end? So I really think if 641 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,600 S2: you read this, you'll see there's a lot of ways 642 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,920 S2: to keep that reader really interested, and they'll start thinking 643 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,880 S2: deeply about the Lord and feel connected to Jesus, maybe 644 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,120 S2: even for the first time. 645 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,359 S1: Isn't it interesting that the very thing that you say 646 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,920 S1: about a good story and the tension that is there, 647 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,880 S1: that keeps you going, is the thing that we try 648 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,719 S1: to get most out of our lives. I think blessing is, 649 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,120 S1: you know, contentment. I want to be content, but blessing 650 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,400 S1: means I have no struggle in my life and I 651 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,920 S1: have nothing. That's bearing down on on me, you know. 652 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,080 S1: And I don't have all these plates that are spinning 653 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,560 S1: around me. I only have one thing to do. That's 654 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,640 S1: what I think blessing is. And God cares too much 655 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,600 S1: about us to not have struggle and trial in our life, right? 656 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,200 S2: That's how you really get to know him. I asked 657 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,520 S2: ash the other night, you know, why do you savor 658 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,040 S2: Jesus so much? Why is it that you really enjoy 659 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,720 S2: Jesus the way you do? And he said suffering. He 660 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,040 S2: doesn't know anyone that doesn't know Jesus deeply because of 661 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,839 S2: how they've suffered. And so you don't need to be 662 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,560 S2: afraid of suffering. What I've come to learn in my 663 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,560 S2: 50s is when I'm suffering just to ask the Lord, like, 664 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,080 S2: what does it mean for me to consecrate my life 665 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,040 S2: here to you? How are you going to show me 666 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,719 S2: who you are? How are you going to walk me 667 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,359 S2: through this? What do you want me to learn, you know, 668 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,879 S2: and to go to him with the thing, you know, 669 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,439 S2: all of my emotions, you know, that's what's so great 670 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,640 S2: about having a relationship with him. A professor friend of 671 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,680 S2: mine who converted to Christianity from Hinduism. Do you know 672 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,160 S2: what most astonished her about Christianity? She said, it's the 673 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,040 S2: only religion where we have a God who wants to 674 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,880 S2: be our friend. Mhm. Because Jesus said, I have called 675 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,360 S2: you friends. Can you imagine friendship with Jesus, friendship with God, 676 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,120 S2: and how that can heal so much? Even being able, 677 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,920 S2: being able to talk to him about what it felt 678 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,240 S2: like to be rejected from this or that table, or 679 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,000 S2: what it felt, what it feels like to be jealous 680 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,040 S2: and afraid that you're not going to have the good 681 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,719 S2: things in life, or whatever it is you're worried about 682 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,080 S2: as you compare yourself to neighbors or other people at work. 683 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,840 S2: Just tell Jesus this is what I'm dealing with. Help 684 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,200 S2: me understand. Give me a spirit of revelation to understand 685 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,720 S2: my seat with you and the good works you've prepared 686 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:04,920 S2: for me, and he'll do it. 687 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,200 S1: This is a deep series that's written for 10 to 688 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,870 S1: 14 year olds or thereabouts, but it's something that that 689 00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:16,910 S1: adults will. I think a lot of us adults need 690 00:37:16,910 --> 00:37:19,110 S1: to go back and read some of those children's books 691 00:37:19,110 --> 00:37:23,029 S1: that we that we missed or reread them like we've 692 00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:26,630 S1: just talked about. So this seat's saved the disappearing seat, 693 00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:30,870 S1: the elite seat, and this, this seat your is yours 694 00:37:31,150 --> 00:37:34,549 S1: or seat's yours is in the Elite Brown series by 695 00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:39,150 S1: doctor Heather Holloman. She said something at a Founders Week 696 00:37:39,150 --> 00:37:43,470 S1: message a few years ago that or maybe wasn't years, 697 00:37:43,469 --> 00:37:47,149 S1: but only a year. Your greatest skill in evangelism is 698 00:37:47,150 --> 00:37:50,990 S1: asking better questions. I want her to unpack that for me, 699 00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:54,750 S1: and you'll hear that straight ahead here on Moody Radio. 700 00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:07,270 S1: Coming up tomorrow on Chris Avery Live, we are going 701 00:38:07,310 --> 00:38:13,670 S1: to talk about judgmental Christians. Yes, the people who outside 702 00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:19,670 S1: of the Christian church see Christians as just these judgy people. 703 00:38:19,710 --> 00:38:21,950 S1: How do you deal with that? How do you deal 704 00:38:21,950 --> 00:38:25,310 S1: with that? The one being accused of being judgmental. And 705 00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:27,830 S1: how do you deal with it if you are being 706 00:38:27,830 --> 00:38:31,830 S1: judged by somebody else? It's going to be a good conversation. 707 00:38:31,870 --> 00:38:33,870 S1: I hope you'll join us right here at the Radio 708 00:38:33,870 --> 00:38:38,150 S1: Backyard fence. Uh, Heather doctor Heather Holloman is joining us 709 00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:41,950 S1: from Penn State University. And a couple of years ago 710 00:38:41,950 --> 00:38:44,629 S1: she was at Founders Week. And I don't think I've 711 00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:46,710 S1: been able to to talk with you about this. You 712 00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:50,390 S1: said that your greatest skill and you could just see, 713 00:38:50,430 --> 00:38:54,910 S1: especially the students that were there, they're sitting up, you know, 714 00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:58,029 S1: a little higher in their seat and they're leaning forward. 715 00:38:58,030 --> 00:39:02,549 S1: Your greatest skill in evangelism is asking better questions. What 716 00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:03,710 S1: do you mean by that? 717 00:39:04,190 --> 00:39:06,589 S2: Well, I you know, when ash and I wrote the 718 00:39:06,590 --> 00:39:09,470 S2: book cent Living a Life that invites others to Jesus, 719 00:39:09,469 --> 00:39:12,069 S2: so many people said, I want to talk to people 720 00:39:12,070 --> 00:39:14,230 S2: about Jesus, but I just have no idea how to 721 00:39:14,270 --> 00:39:18,069 S2: even have a good conversation anymore. And what I realized is, 722 00:39:18,070 --> 00:39:20,870 S2: as I studied the social science research about how to 723 00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:23,830 S2: have a warm connection with people, if you learn to 724 00:39:23,870 --> 00:39:28,710 S2: ask good questions rooted in curiosity, generous, wonderful questions of 725 00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:32,550 S2: your friends, you'll have what researchers call a warm connection. 726 00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:35,350 S2: And once you have a warm connection with someone, sharing 727 00:39:35,350 --> 00:39:37,550 S2: the gospel with them will not feel like a sales 728 00:39:37,550 --> 00:39:40,709 S2: pitch or an awkward pivot in the conversation, you'll just 729 00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:42,750 S2: be sharing your life with them. Most of the people 730 00:39:42,750 --> 00:39:45,390 S2: that I talk to about Jesus, nobody says, oh, it's 731 00:39:45,390 --> 00:39:48,029 S2: weird you're talking about him now. No, it's because we 732 00:39:48,030 --> 00:39:51,270 S2: have a warm connection and it's really natural to talk 733 00:39:51,310 --> 00:39:54,310 S2: about Jesus. And in that talk I talk about, once 734 00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:56,270 S2: you have a warm connection, you can ask a simple 735 00:39:56,270 --> 00:39:59,069 S2: question like this. You can say, well, you know, I'm 736 00:39:59,070 --> 00:40:01,910 S2: someone who follows Jesus. I would love to know what 737 00:40:01,910 --> 00:40:05,350 S2: your faith tradition says about Jesus, or just what do 738 00:40:05,350 --> 00:40:07,390 S2: you think about him? And you'd be amazed at the 739 00:40:07,469 --> 00:40:10,830 S2: Conversations you can have. I even just a couple of 740 00:40:10,830 --> 00:40:13,469 S2: weeks ago, heard one of the best questions, and I've 741 00:40:13,469 --> 00:40:16,630 S2: been asking everyone I know if it's a Christian, ask 742 00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:20,030 S2: them this. You know, when you first came to Jesus, 743 00:40:20,270 --> 00:40:23,870 S2: what do you remember you most needed from him? And 744 00:40:23,870 --> 00:40:26,390 S2: everyone will have a different answer. And if it's someone 745 00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:29,230 S2: who's not a Christian, you can say, if all of 746 00:40:29,230 --> 00:40:32,950 S2: this were true and Jesus really was here for you, 747 00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:36,549 S2: what would you most want from him? You will be 748 00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:40,469 S2: amazed what that question does in terms of having a 749 00:40:40,469 --> 00:40:42,950 S2: conversation where you get to share the gospel. You will 750 00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:45,190 S2: learn more about people. When you ask, you know, what 751 00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:47,350 S2: would you want from God? Or what did you want 752 00:40:47,350 --> 00:40:50,110 S2: from him when you first came to him? And everyone 753 00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:51,989 S2: will share something different. And that's what I love about 754 00:40:51,989 --> 00:40:52,870 S2: that question. 755 00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:55,670 S1: Let me try it out. How would you answer that? 756 00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:58,670 S1: If if Jesus were here, what would you most want 757 00:40:58,670 --> 00:41:00,470 S1: from him? I mean, he is here. 758 00:41:01,030 --> 00:41:03,950 S2: Yes. What do you most need from him? Yes. When 759 00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:06,190 S2: I first started asking that question, by the way, and 760 00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:07,859 S2: of course I'm going to ask you. So you have 761 00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:11,900 S2: to answer it. Everyone said something different. Ash said. Heather. 762 00:41:11,940 --> 00:41:15,500 S2: He said to me, Heather, I really needed order. My 763 00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:17,860 S2: life was in chaos and I was tired of running 764 00:41:17,860 --> 00:41:21,380 S2: my own life. I thought that was a really interesting, um, 765 00:41:21,420 --> 00:41:24,180 S2: thing to say. My mentor said I came to Jesus 766 00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:27,900 S2: because I had no purpose. Life felt meaningless. One of 767 00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:32,020 S2: my daughters said I came to him for adventure. Another 768 00:41:32,020 --> 00:41:35,500 S2: daughter said I came to him for security. I love 769 00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:39,140 S2: this question. I came to Jesus when I was 12. 770 00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:42,700 S2: What I most wanted was a sense of what that 771 00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:45,980 S2: family of God could be. I was lonely, I wanted 772 00:41:45,980 --> 00:41:48,219 S2: a new family. I think that's what did it for me. 773 00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:49,500 S2: What would you say, Chris? 774 00:41:50,980 --> 00:41:53,380 S1: Well, I could give you a, you know, a Christian 775 00:41:53,380 --> 00:41:56,419 S1: answer that I could put through the forgiveness of sin. 776 00:41:56,460 --> 00:41:57,380 S2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 777 00:41:57,820 --> 00:42:01,700 S1: Um, but the thing that is that that is kind 778 00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:04,339 S1: of rolling around my soul and I talked with Steve 779 00:42:04,380 --> 00:42:08,900 S1: Brown about this yesterday, about the orphan spirit to. To 780 00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:13,700 S1: escape the feeling that I. I had to do this 781 00:42:13,739 --> 00:42:17,180 S1: on my own that I. I am on because that's 782 00:42:17,180 --> 00:42:19,339 S1: the way I felt when I went to school. When 783 00:42:19,340 --> 00:42:21,940 S1: I went to college, in a lot of ways it 784 00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:23,980 S1: was like, I got it. I got to figure this 785 00:42:23,980 --> 00:42:27,859 S1: out myself and I got to do this myself. And 786 00:42:27,860 --> 00:42:31,580 S1: if I ask anybody for help, then I'm weak and 787 00:42:31,580 --> 00:42:34,300 S1: I don't want to be weak and I, you know, etc., etc.. 788 00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:38,819 S1: So there is a sense of that. I don't want 789 00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:42,620 S1: to be an orphan. Will you bring me into your family? 790 00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:45,740 S1: Will you bother me? And then will you give me 791 00:42:45,739 --> 00:42:49,500 S1: the trust that I need to place in you rather 792 00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:51,100 S1: than in myself because. 793 00:42:51,140 --> 00:42:52,220 S2: Oh, so yeah. 794 00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:52,660 S1: Right. 795 00:42:52,700 --> 00:42:56,060 S2: So no more self effort. Holy Spirit power for you. No, 796 00:42:56,060 --> 00:42:57,660 S2: I love that. And what I love about this in 797 00:42:57,660 --> 00:43:00,980 S2: conversation is you will learn about all the different facets 798 00:43:00,980 --> 00:43:05,739 S2: of God's character. He is orderly. He does heal. He 799 00:43:05,739 --> 00:43:09,180 S2: does provide a family. He does give you the power 800 00:43:09,180 --> 00:43:12,500 S2: to live a supernatural life. And I, I love just 801 00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:15,259 S2: talking to people. So when I shared that at Founders Week, 802 00:43:15,260 --> 00:43:18,660 S2: it was also just asking really good questions. Like if you, 803 00:43:18,660 --> 00:43:20,660 S2: if you weren't a believer and you were a student 804 00:43:20,660 --> 00:43:23,260 S2: in my office and you were really stressed out about something, 805 00:43:23,260 --> 00:43:25,739 S2: I may say something as simple as, you know, I'm 806 00:43:25,739 --> 00:43:28,700 S2: really curious. Do you what do you do to manage stress? 807 00:43:28,739 --> 00:43:32,380 S2: Are you someone that has any spiritual rituals that help 808 00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:35,780 S2: you with stress management? And what that would do is 809 00:43:35,780 --> 00:43:38,299 S2: it's sort of like you're a fisherman, you're fishing, you're 810 00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:41,180 S2: using spiritual language to see if they'll take the bait. 811 00:43:41,340 --> 00:43:43,660 S2: And what I love about questions that do that is 812 00:43:43,660 --> 00:43:46,140 S2: you can quickly get into the spiritual realm and have 813 00:43:46,140 --> 00:43:48,140 S2: students say, I don't even know what you're talking about. 814 00:43:48,140 --> 00:43:51,739 S2: Do you have a spiritual way? You handle stress? And 815 00:43:51,739 --> 00:43:54,259 S2: then I can share about my prayer journal. And, you know, 816 00:43:54,300 --> 00:43:57,660 S2: I've even shared with students Psalm five three where David says, 817 00:43:57,660 --> 00:44:00,060 S2: in the morning, O Lord, you hear my voice. In 818 00:44:00,060 --> 00:44:03,180 S2: the morning I lay my requests before you, and I 819 00:44:03,300 --> 00:44:07,700 S2: wait in expectation. That is my anti-stress verse. I just 820 00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:11,060 S2: tell the Lord. Here is what I need and I 821 00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:13,100 S2: cannot wait to see what you're going to do today. 822 00:44:13,180 --> 00:44:17,260 S2: So asking good questions is probably the number one professional 823 00:44:17,260 --> 00:44:20,660 S2: development skill of young people. Staying curious about other people. 824 00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:24,620 S1: And the other development skill is then listening to the answer. 825 00:44:24,620 --> 00:44:26,420 S1: Because it's one thing to ask a good question, you 826 00:44:26,460 --> 00:44:27,819 S1: got to listen, right? 827 00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:32,060 S2: That's right. Ash and I run a six conversations workshop, 828 00:44:32,060 --> 00:44:35,260 S2: and we teach about what it means to listen and 829 00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:38,299 S2: what you're actually listening for. And maybe your listeners have 830 00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:41,340 S2: never heard this. When someone's talking, you're listening for what's 831 00:44:41,340 --> 00:44:46,819 S2: called core values. What does this person really care most about? 832 00:44:46,820 --> 00:44:50,020 S2: And you can hear that as they're just sharing simple answers. 833 00:44:50,060 --> 00:44:53,060 S2: Like just from this conversation, I know you care deeply about, 834 00:44:53,420 --> 00:44:56,860 S2: you know, not feeling alone, feeling like people are caring 835 00:44:56,860 --> 00:44:59,580 S2: for you, feeling like things are going to be okay, 836 00:44:59,620 --> 00:45:02,290 S2: that that kind of matters to you. And just from 837 00:45:02,290 --> 00:45:05,050 S2: that conversation, if I said that back to you, you 838 00:45:05,050 --> 00:45:08,170 S2: would feel, um, that I listened to you, that I 839 00:45:08,170 --> 00:45:10,850 S2: heard what you said, and we would have a warm connection. 840 00:45:11,010 --> 00:45:13,250 S1: That's what we all want. We all want to be heard. 841 00:45:13,250 --> 00:45:18,050 S1: We want to be seen, uh, known. And that's why, Heather, 842 00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:19,810 S1: it's always great to talk with you. But then to 843 00:45:19,810 --> 00:45:22,489 S1: be able to have, you know, these four books for 844 00:45:22,489 --> 00:45:25,569 S1: 10 to 14 year olds and don't let them sit 845 00:45:25,570 --> 00:45:27,850 S1: there for your 10 to 14 year olds. You read 846 00:45:27,850 --> 00:45:30,609 S1: them as well. And talk about this seat's saved. The 847 00:45:30,610 --> 00:45:34,370 S1: disappearing seat, the elite seat. This seat's yours. We've got 848 00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:37,930 S1: the link at Chris Fabry live.org. And you can also 849 00:45:37,930 --> 00:45:40,890 S1: go to that website that we have linked there as well. 850 00:45:40,890 --> 00:45:44,930 S1: The seated and sent. That's an official ministry that Heather 851 00:45:44,930 --> 00:45:49,089 S1: and her husband Ashley have, and I have to. We 852 00:45:49,130 --> 00:45:52,370 S1: got a caller from Mississippi who was bullied in middle school, 853 00:45:52,850 --> 00:45:57,130 S1: and she said those feelings of rejection have stayed with 854 00:45:57,130 --> 00:45:59,890 S1: her and have been hard to shake. She is beginning 855 00:45:59,930 --> 00:46:03,569 S1: to realize that her identity is in Christ, but it 856 00:46:03,570 --> 00:46:08,090 S1: has been an uphill battle, she said. So keep fighting 857 00:46:08,090 --> 00:46:12,210 S1: the battle. Keep going uphill. You've you've seen that in 858 00:46:12,210 --> 00:46:16,489 S1: your own life and you're moving forward. And, Doctor Holloman, 859 00:46:16,489 --> 00:46:20,770 S1: thank you for gracing us today. And you know what I. 860 00:46:20,810 --> 00:46:24,969 S1: I wish your Nittany Lions a good season. Okay. 861 00:46:25,930 --> 00:46:28,610 S2: Love your enemies, Chris. Love your enemies. 862 00:46:29,170 --> 00:46:30,689 S1: Bless them. Pray for those who. 863 00:46:30,690 --> 00:46:30,970 S2: Beat. 864 00:46:30,969 --> 00:46:34,330 S1: You. 45 to nothing and only let you get one 865 00:46:34,330 --> 00:46:37,770 S1: first down. Okay. Uh, go to the website. I encourage 866 00:46:37,770 --> 00:46:42,770 S1: you to, uh, Chris Fabry live.org. And if you have 867 00:46:42,770 --> 00:46:47,009 S1: a problem with judgmentalism people being judgmental with you or 868 00:46:47,010 --> 00:46:49,609 S1: you being that, join us tomorrow for Chris Fabry live 869 00:46:49,610 --> 00:46:53,609 S1: production of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.