S1: Loneliness is not a sin. It is a gift and
S1: a friend that God has given to us that we
S1: shouldn't hate and we shouldn't waste, but rather we use
S1: and redeem. And it can actually provide what we need
S1: to restore what is missing in our lives.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: The New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages.
S2: In a time when loneliness is at an all time high,
S2: we need some help and hope for people who feel
S2: the pain of isolation and lack of community. Our guest
S2: is Pastor Steve DeWitt, and he is uniquely qualified to
S2: speak about this malady and help you redeem the deep
S2: ache of loneliness.
S3: You'll hear his story and some of the biblical principles
S3: he's gleaned from a lifetime of study on this summer.
S3: Best of broadcast. A featured resource is the book loneliness.
S3: Don't hate it or waste it, redeem it. Find out
S3: more at building relationships.us. Gary. Have you ever experienced a
S3: season of loneliness either before or after you were married?
S4: You know, Chris, as I look back on my life,
S4: there's just one time that I really sensed being lonely.
S4: And that was when I was in California for three weeks.
S4: Or maybe it was for teaching at a university out
S4: there away from my wife and family. And I remember
S4: later on sharing that with someone with a single young man, uh,
S4: in my counseling and just telling him how I felt
S4: lonely out there. And he said, well, yeah, but lonely.
S4: He said, that's different from loneliness. He says, lonely. You
S4: knew you were going home later. He said, loneliness is
S4: when you don't have any home to go to. And
S4: I thought, oh my goodness, that's pretty powerful. Yeah, he
S4: was a single. And he said, I don't have any
S4: home to go home to. He really felt isolated. So
S4: but but yeah, but in terms of having, you know,
S4: long periods of loneliness in my life, the answer would
S4: be no, but but that one time, you know, that
S4: sense of being lonely because I didn't know anybody out there,
S4: you know, I was just on the campus and didn't
S4: know anyone. So. But I'm looking forward to our conversation
S4: because I do think there's an awful lot of people
S4: today who are suffering from loneliness.
S3: There's somebody listening right now that that story touched a
S3: nerve in them. And so I want you to get
S3: a little closer to the radio and listen here today
S3: as we meet Steve DeWitt. He has served as senior
S3: pastor of Bethel Church since 1997. Bethel is a nondenominational
S3: church in northwest Indiana and the Chicagoland and ministers to
S3: its community across multiple campuses. Steve is on the Council
S3: of the Gospel Coalition. He's a board member of Global Action.
S3: His teaching ministry can be heard on his podcast and
S3: media ministry, The Journey. Steve and his wife, Jennifer, are
S3: the proud parents of two daughters, and her featured resource
S3: again is the book loneliness. Don't hate it or Waste It,
S3: Redeem it. You can find out more at Building Relationships us.
S4: Well, pastor DeWitt, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1: I'm delighted to be here and have admired your ministry
S1: for many years, and feel honored to be able to
S1: connect in this way.
S4: Well, you know, behind every book I found that there
S4: is a story. So why would a pastor be qualified
S4: to write a book about loneliness?
S1: Well, I would go back in my story. So I
S1: have been a pastor for 30 years. For 15 of
S1: those years I served as a senior pastor in a
S1: very large church. As a single man didn't get married
S1: till I was in my mid-forties, I calculated I had
S1: some 8000 nights alone. And, you know, that's a lot
S1: of nights to sort of think about, man, what is
S1: this feeling I have inside and why do I hurt
S1: in the way that I do? And why is it
S1: a kind of chronic nagging to your story earlier of
S1: the young man? You know, this loneliness? What is it?
S1: And you know, as a as a pastor, I'm blessed
S1: a pastor, a lot of people. I'm, you know, I'm
S1: I'm lonely in a crowd. I've got all these people.
S1: And yet there is this emptiness in me. And so
S1: as a pastor, theologian type I, I thought about it deeply,
S1: read about it, lived out many, many years of it.
S1: So I come at this in a in a unique way.
S1: I want to make something clear as well. The book
S1: is not a book about lonely singles who need to
S1: get married. Not at all. I think the worst loneliness
S1: is marital loneliness. So I'm not at all advocating marriage
S1: as the solution to that, but rather to think biblically
S1: with a Christian worldview about what is loneliness, what is aloneness,
S1: what is solitude and what is bad about that, and
S1: what can we do to redeem it? So that's how
S1: I come at the, at the, at the topic.
S4: I think you're qualified and I'm excited about the book
S4: and about our conversation today. Let me just ask you
S4: this while we're on your personal story. Uh, when you
S4: were young, uh, did you anticipate and expect that that
S4: someday I'm going to be married?
S1: I absolutely did, in fact, I prayed. I can say
S1: almost every week for 25 years, from age 18 to
S1: age 43. I prayed every week for not only a wife,
S1: but that wife and prayed for her, whoever she might be,
S1: hoping that, you know, I would get married. So I
S1: was not a, uh, you know, celibate till the rapture type, uh,
S1: Christian by any means. I was hopeful and, you know,
S1: dated and prayerful and all of that. So, yes, I,
S1: I very much wanted to hope to, but it just
S1: never it never quite got there for me. Yeah.
S4: Well, I would think being the pastor of a megachurch
S4: and being single, I mean, were you the only one
S4: in the country that fell in that category?
S1: I didn't know it at the time, but a couple
S1: of years ago, a couple of megachurch experts who study
S1: megachurches and, you know, are, I think, the leading national
S1: experts on it. Uh, they told me I was at
S1: that time the the only never married megachurch pastor in
S1: the United States. Yeah, I'm glad I found out later.
S1: I might have been depressed to hear that at the time, but.
S4: Uh, yeah.
S5: It's.
S1: Apparently something unique about me.
S5: Yeah.
S4: Maybe so. Well, there's something unique about all of us.
S4: Let's face it. Okay. Yeah. Now, you say that you
S4: spent 8000 nights of adulthood alone. What was the hardest
S4: part of those lonely days?
S1: Well, that is a that's a very interesting question. And
S1: I would say that those that maybe are listening who,
S1: you know, live largely alone, are curious as to what
S1: I would say, because, you know, it's one thing you
S1: mentioned your three weeks alone and, you know, uh, speaking
S1: for those who live alone, years are, you know, are
S1: the little violin that's playing right now is our heart
S1: bleeds for you for those three weeks because you get
S1: you get three years, you get 30 years of being alone.
S1: And it's a whole new kind of experience. Um, I
S1: would say one of the things that was such a
S1: challenge for me was the sameness, you know, I would
S1: I would leave my house every morning. And when I
S1: came home, it was exactly the way it was when
S1: I left. And I used to say, the only thing
S1: worse than a lot of noise in the house is
S1: no noise in the house. And I think that there's
S1: a kind of grinding sameness that, uh, aloneness brings because
S1: the only variety of life comes from you. You don't
S1: have that conversationalist. You don't have that, you know, other
S1: interests or hobbies or whatever the other person might represent.
S1: That just brings some, uh, variety, some spice, some, uh, interest, rather,
S1: every day is is is just you and I chafed
S1: under the the sameness of my life despite the church,
S1: despite all the people and truly, I, I mean, my
S1: church was wonderful over all those years. There's probably, you know,
S1: few pastors that have been in as many homes and
S1: had as many meals and whether that's in their home
S1: or delivered to my doorstep, I mean, our church was
S1: just fantastic. Uh, yet, uh, you know, life is long
S1: and aloneness, which I view as being neither bad nor good.
S1: It is to me neutral. Uh, aloneness has its own
S1: its own grinding sameness that I found challenging.
S4: I'm sure a lot of our listeners who are single
S4: and perhaps have been single for a while, are really
S4: identifying with what you're saying. And part of what I
S4: hear you saying, however, is that a single person doesn't
S4: have to be a lonely person, and a married person
S4: is not immune from loneliness.
S1: Yes, indeed. And you know, here's where I can speak
S1: on both sides of that. I had 8000 nights of
S1: adulthood alone, and now I've been married almost for 12 years.
S1: I have two daughters. So I've experienced, uh, both sides
S1: of this. And, you know, the apostle Paul, inspired by
S1: the Holy Spirit, first Corinthians seven spoke with a lot
S1: of wisdom. You know, he urged those that are single
S1: to recognize that it's a gift. There are aspects to
S1: singleness that married people would love to have again. And
S1: yet there are aspects to married life that, you know,
S1: marriage is also a gift and has its own unique
S1: responsibilities and its own unique, um, blessings. And so we
S1: just have to, I think, recognize and not have expectations
S1: that either singleness is going to be, uh, lonely because
S1: it doesn't have to be, nor that marriage is going
S1: to satisfy that longing that we have. That is part
S1: of our imago day, part of how God made us.
S1: And that, um, marriage after the fall is also, in
S1: many respects, going to fall short of what our, our instincts,
S1: our image bearing longs for. And so I would say
S1: that loneliness in in singleness, the, you know, the the
S1: one thing about that is that you, you maybe think,
S1: if I have a marriage, if I have family, then this,
S1: you know, this ache would go away. I think this
S1: is the particular pain of marital loneliness, and that is
S1: that you have these things and yet you still feel
S1: something is missing. And in a unhealthy marriage situation, an
S1: unhealthy home, those can be very acute feelings and very,
S1: very painful ones. So the book is really written about
S1: loneliness generally, and specifically about Christian solutions and gospel solutions
S1: to loneliness, no matter your marital status, and not to
S1: look to your marital status as the cause of your loneliness.
S1: It's simply the status of your of your life and
S1: the gospel solutions apply either way.
S4: Yeah. So so being alone and being lonely are two
S4: different things.
S1: Yes, very much so. Let me unpack that a second. Uh,
S1: so let's go back to Genesis one and two. God
S1: creates Adam, and he identifies that it's not good for
S1: Adam to be alone. Now, I would maintain that Adam
S1: was not lonely. Adam was alone. And God recognized that
S1: for the pinnacle of his creation, which is humanity, to
S1: reflect what he is like within his Trinity, which is
S1: unity and diversity. 3 in 1 that Adam being alone
S1: was an incomplete picture of what he is like, and
S1: so he purposed to create Eve to, uh, fix Adam's aloneness,
S1: not to fix his loneliness. I would maintain loneliness doesn't
S1: appear until after the fall. Not that loneliness is a sin.
S1: And maybe we'll get into this a little bit, but
S1: it is the result of sin, both vertically. We're lonely
S1: with God, and horizontally we are insufficiently satisfied in human
S1: relationships after the fall, no matter how robust the marriage
S1: or the friendship may be. So aloneness is neutral, loneliness
S1: is bad and solitude is good. And to understand our
S1: feelings in those three categories, I think is very helpful.
S1: You know, our hearts go out to the lonely. We
S1: want to help them. And I think God wants to
S1: help the lonely. And the gospel provides that aloneness is
S1: not itself a problem. Now, some people are extroverted, some
S1: people are introverted. You know, you got there's a spectrum here,
S1: but but being alone is not theologically or biblically or
S1: morally a problem. It's what happens when loneliness weaponizes our
S1: aloneness against us that it turns in this negative way.
S1: And I would maintain that solitude, which is using our
S1: aloneness in healthy ways, is actually a good thing, and
S1: that we all would do better to cultivate healthy solitude
S1: in our life. So those three categories, I think, are
S1: good ones to put the, you know, the feelings or
S1: the status that we're in and to understand what is
S1: bad about loneliness and what is okay about aloneness, and
S1: what can be good about solitude.
S4: Yeah, I want to come back to that in a minute,
S4: but let me let me talk about the current situation,
S4: because I've heard more about loneliness since the Covid pandemic
S4: than I did, you know, the years before that. So
S4: what did the pandemic do in our society as far
S4: as loneliness goes?
S1: Well, I can just tell you that, you know, this
S1: isn't me saying this. This is the Surgeon general. This
S1: is pretty much every study that's out there is that
S1: loneliness is an epidemic. So we had a pandemic that
S1: fed an epidemic. And that epidemic is the aloneness, that
S1: social distancing and sheltering in place and even the rancor
S1: of that surrounded these things as people tribalized and relationships frayed.
S1: All of this only augmented and amplified what was already
S1: a problem, uh, in the 20 tens. So we live
S1: today in a in a time where the medical community
S1: is ringing the bell. That we are the loneliest, you know,
S1: humans ever. We're the most connected socially, media and simultaneously
S1: the most lonely people of history. And the pandemic was,
S1: I think, a little bit of an inflection point that, uh,
S1: took cracks that were already there in our society and
S1: in churches and in families and in, you know, political
S1: persuasions and just, you know, magnified those. So here we
S1: are now, what, 3 or 4 years after the, uh,
S1: the core of the pandemic. And you'd like to think
S1: that everyone's, you know, harmonized and restored. And yet we
S1: continue to be fractured and our society is, you know, fraying.
S1: And so I think all of us, probably every listener
S1: here would say, yeah, it's kind of worse now. And
S1: if you were, if you were lonely before the pandemic, uh,
S1: you are you are acutely lonely, likely after it. So, yeah,
S1: we all kind of wish we could go go back
S1: a few years to when it was different than it
S1: is right now.
S4: I know very, very true. I don't know if any
S4: theological school has a course on the theology of loneliness,
S4: but could you address that idea? Is there a theology
S4: of alone, of loneliness?
S1: Well, there should be. And maybe my book is a
S1: small contribution in that direction, because I think when it
S1: comes to loneliness, you know, much like, uh, I would
S1: say hunger or thirst, you know, understanding why I feel
S1: that way is one step towards curing it. And the
S1: Bible explains why human beings are lonely. And it goes
S1: back to again our kind of inner architecture as image
S1: bearers of God. We were made for something. We were
S1: made for, for someone. And so we were made for
S1: a harmonised, vertical relationship with God, our creator. We were
S1: made for harmonised relationships with other people, and our hearts
S1: instinctively long for that. There's an ancient memory, if you will,
S1: that we have when everything was right with God and
S1: right with other people. Obviously, sin enters into the world,
S1: and instantly both the vertical and the and the horizontal, uh,
S1: relationships are broken. Adam and Eve instantly feel naked, and
S1: I spent some time talking about nakedness in the in
S1: the book, uh, much to the editors chagrin. But I
S1: think it's important to.
S5: Understand.
S1: Why we why we feel physically naked. And the Bible
S1: says that this is part of our imago day, that
S1: we we feel a sense of shame now. We want
S1: to hide from God. We even want to hide from
S1: from other people. And those clothes that we put on are,
S1: you know, they're not just fashion. They are they are
S1: theological statements that go back to the Garden of Eden
S1: that explain why we do not feel harmonized with God
S1: and the shame that we feel with true vulnerability, with
S1: who we truly are with other people. So I kind
S1: of make the point in the book that, you know,
S1: we shower every day. We don't think about it because
S1: we're alone. Uh, but if we were showering in a
S1: social setting, it would. It would feel very different than that.
S1: And all of that ties into why we feel lonely.
S1: So I would maintain that loneliness is not a sin. Okay. Loneliness.
S1: Feeling lonely is not a sin. It is rather a
S1: an indicator that God built into our image bearing to
S1: indicate that something isn't quite healthy, that something is is missing,
S1: that that loneliness is not the presence of something, it
S1: is the absence of something. And we feel that absence
S1: as a kind of longing for someone that will satisfy
S1: that relational longing that we all instinctively have. Now, Augustine,
S1: of course, says our hearts are restless until they find
S1: their rest in thee. And so there is this vertical
S1: dimension that that is essential to who we are. But
S1: there is then this horizontal that, you know, we're made
S1: for community with other people. and when we don't have
S1: that community with other people, we feel a kind of ache.
S1: So yeah, I talk about loneliness. It's it's kind of
S1: like it's like hunger or thirst or perhaps even grief
S1: where we wouldn't say it's a sin to be hungry
S1: or thirsty or to grieve, but rather we see that
S1: those are the those are indicators that something is missing
S1: or someone is missing. So when we're hungry, we go
S1: get something, get some food, we're thirsty, we get something
S1: to drink when we feel lonely. Uh. We are. That
S1: is a gift from God. Like the engine light in
S1: your car is a gift from Honda or GM to
S1: indicate when something needs to be addressed. And so I
S1: urge then that we take the energy and loneliness provides
S1: a kind of energy, and we take that and we
S1: pursue the very thing that is absent. And we'll get
S1: into this, I think, in a moment about how the
S1: gospel provides avenues for that. And I think the church
S1: is a wonderful context for that to happen. But my
S1: main thing is understanding the theology of loneliness as a
S1: part of being an image bearer of God. It is
S1: not a sin. It is the result of sin, and
S1: it is a gift and a friend that God has
S1: given to us that we shouldn't hate and we shouldn't waste,
S1: but rather we use and redeem. And it can actually
S1: provide what we need to restore what is missing in
S1: our lives.
S3: We hope you're enjoying the Building Relationships podcast. Tell a
S3: friend about this conversation, and if you know somebody who's
S3: going through bouts of loneliness, send them to building relationships.
S3: Dot us featured resource is the book by Steve DeWitt. Loneliness.
S3: Don't hate it or waste it, redeem it. You can
S3: find that and more at building relationships. Dot us.
S4: Steve, you say that the depth of your loneliness signals
S4: the opposite height of your potential joy. What leads you
S4: to say that?
S5: Well, I.
S1: In the book I use the illustration of my daughters
S1: who love to swing at the park. And so I will,
S1: you know, push them. I do the run under. The
S1: higher you go on the one side, you know, the
S1: higher they go, on the other they squeal. They love it.
S1: It's a picture, I think, of the power of loneliness
S1: to indicate the glory of what comes on the other
S1: side of it. You know, when we're missing God. Okay,
S1: that ache for God is a kind of backhanded compliment
S1: to how great it is to know God, to be
S1: reconciled to God. And similarly, that longing, the pain of
S1: loneliness and the ache of loneliness. It's not a small thing.
S1: It's a huge thing. It can take over your life.
S1: It indicates the magnitude of it indicates its importance, which also,
S1: I think should encourage us that getting this right there
S1: is a great joy on the other side of this
S1: that the absence of it is very painful, but the
S1: presence of it can be a great blessing in our
S1: life and to allow, you know, allow that, um, acute
S1: pain to motivate us to deal with these matters that
S1: are that are absent in our life and to pursue
S1: healthy relationships with God and with others. Uh, there is
S1: a there's a great joy on the other side that
S1: the pain indicates. The importance of. That was a very
S1: poor sentence grammatically, but hopefully it communicated to the listeners
S1: what I'm getting at.
S4: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, absolutely. You know, the subtitle
S4: of your book says don't Hate or Waste Your Loneliness.
S4: Tell us a little more about that. How how do
S4: you how do you turn it into that in that direction?
S1: Yeah. Well, so I was born in the Upper Peninsula
S1: of Michigan and have spent time driving around the Upper Midwest. And,
S1: you know, it's beautiful, it's great. But you see these
S1: cabins and these homes and these trailers back up in
S1: the woods. And I often times as I drive through,
S1: I think about these people and I wonder, how do
S1: they make a go of it, you know, how are
S1: they doing life? And why would somebody choose to live
S1: so remotely from other people. And I think if we
S1: went around and interviewed, not all, but there would be
S1: some who are running away from mommy, running away from
S1: a painful relationship with dad, running away from, you know,
S1: the the isolation that they have chosen is a reaction
S1: to the pain of that relational break. And there they
S1: nurse that hurt. What I would call, uh, they hate
S1: their loneliness. And in that way, they they waste their loneliness.
S1: And you don't have to live in the woods of
S1: northern Michigan. You can live in an apartment complex and
S1: in a sense, be living in the woods relationally, running
S1: away from the very thing that would fill that void
S1: in your life. And so I think the reality of
S1: living in a fallen world, we live with other sinners.
S1: All our family members are sinners. All our friends are sinners.
S1: Everyone in church is a sinner. Inevitably, uh, we pick
S1: up painful things along the way, and we can take
S1: that ache and we can. It can weaponize inside of
S1: us in ways that lead to unforgiveness. Yeah. Um, you know, disharmony. Uh,
S1: you know, a a a commitment to never reconciling or
S1: whatever that might be. So we see this all the time,
S1: and it's true all over the world. What I am
S1: advocating for is, rather than simply stewing over your loneliness
S1: and hating it, rather than, uh, ignoring it and wasting
S1: it to realize that loneliness is a gift from God.
S1: God built it into us, and it's prickly and it
S1: prods and it hurts, but it does so for a reason.
S1: If it didn't, we would easily ignore it. We can't
S1: ignore it. The pain is a part of the of
S1: the pleasure. It is part of the of the blessing
S1: that God intended to move us towards the things that
S1: are life giving relationships that are life giving, uh, forgiveness
S1: that provides health. All these things are a gift from God.
S1: You know, I don't like feeling hungry. Like we're doing
S1: this interview right now, and it's almost lunchtime, and I
S1: don't I don't I don't like the feeling of hungry.
S1: I don't like feeling thirsty, but I'm glad that I
S1: don't like feeling thirsty because that makes me want to
S1: drink something. And hunger makes me want to eat something,
S1: and loneliness should make us want what God designed for
S1: us to find satisfaction in. If we don't resent it,
S1: but embrace it and redeem it, that's the key.
S4: It makes a lot of sense. You know, you also
S4: write that the gospel provides the paradigm for overcoming loneliness.
S4: Tell us more about that.
S1: Hmm. Well, this is part of the whole redeeming of
S1: of loneliness that I think is so exciting. You know,
S1: I obviously I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian pastor, Christian author.
S1: And so I'm looking at this through the Christian worldview,
S1: through the biblical worldview. And so we we think of
S1: that theology of loneliness that the pain of loneliness, not
S1: as sin itself, but the result of sin, and an
S1: indication that I am not harmonized with God or and
S1: or not harmonized with other people. So we get to
S1: the New Testament and here comes Jesus. And there's obviously
S1: so much that we could say about Jesus, but with
S1: respect to loneliness, to understand that Jesus also experienced loneliness.
S1: Cries out from the cross, My God, my God, why
S1: have you forsaken me? Uh, we know that he was alone,
S1: certainly during his temptation, until Satan came along. And Jesus
S1: provides a paradigm for humanity as God intended it to be.
S1: And the Cross of Jesus provides a similar paradigm for
S1: how we human beings can live the best life, the
S1: most satisfied life, the life that God intended for us.
S1: We look at the cross, and there in the cross
S1: we have ultimate love. We have ultimate self-giving. I define
S1: love as self-giving for the good and joy of another.
S1: Jesus gives all that he has to us, dies on
S1: the cross for our sins. And, you know, we obviously
S1: have little indications of this. Before the cross, he washes
S1: the disciples feet. He has compassion for the poor, the,
S1: you know, the grieving mother, the hungry, etc.. so his
S1: whole life was oriented towards, uh, towards others. And so
S1: I encourage and and even in my own experience, the
S1: way to mitigate loneliness is like Jesus. Rather than looking
S1: for people who are going to meet this ache that
S1: I have in my life to come along and satisfy
S1: the needs that I have, that we essentially mitigate our
S1: loneliness by giving to others the love that we long for.
S1: In other words, try to meet the loneliness in other
S1: people's life. And that example of Jesus lived out in us,
S1: that love of God through us mitigates the loneliness in us. Yeah,
S1: I would say that rather than just looking in the
S1: mirror and saying, I'm just so lonely, why am I
S1: so lonely and blah blah blah. To meet the needs
S1: of other people practically. And you're going to get back
S1: to your apartment, get back to your dorm, get back
S1: to your house and be like, where did my loneliness go?
S1: I can't find it now because I have given of myself,
S1: you know, to other people.
S5: Yeah.
S1: Now, if I could just add on that this is
S1: where I think marriage does provide a certain kind of
S1: advantage when it comes to loneliness. Because, uh, it's not
S1: hard in marriage to find somebody that you you need to, uh,
S1: to live for their joy and to, uh, to meet
S1: their needs. You know, marriage is the most intense place
S1: where the spouse has to live for the joy of
S1: the other. But as you do that in a strange
S1: way that God has designed, it meets that relational need
S1: in our hearts. I think in some ways this is
S1: why even a pet in a small way, kind of
S1: gets people that direction. Because even if you're living alone,
S1: if you have a pet, there's, you know, there's something
S1: else that you're living for besides yourself.
S5: You you care for that.
S1: Pet, you want to take care of that pet. And
S1: in a small way, and for some people, maybe it's
S1: a large way that also mitigates that loneliness because you
S1: are giving of yourself to someone else. And that, of course,
S1: is all these are little pictures of what Jesus did
S1: on the cross. And so I would maintain that a
S1: Christian who believes in Jesus as Lord and Savior, but
S1: also admires Jesus and wants to live like Jesus in
S1: their life. That example of self-sacrifice is perhaps the greatest
S1: mitigator of loneliness, and that I call it gospel izing
S1: your loneliness. Take that paradigm of Jesus on the cross
S1: and strive in your life to similarly give of yourself
S1: for others. And as we do that, our loneliness ebbs away.
S4: You know, Steve, in the last session you talked about
S4: serving others, and you mentioned that marriage gives you a
S4: wonderful opportunity to serve another person. It kind of ties
S4: in with the love language concept because it if I
S4: know what makes my wife feel loved and I choose
S4: to speak her love language. Yeah, there's a reciprocal thing
S4: that happens because love stimulates love. You know, the Bible
S4: says we love God because he first loved us. We're
S4: responding to his his love for us. And you mentioned
S4: that pet thing. I had a lady tell me the
S4: other day, she said, you know, my husband's been gone now.
S4: He died, had been gone for two years. And she said,
S4: I got a pet because I just wanted something else
S4: alive to be in the house with me. You know,
S4: I thought, I see that, you know, and as you mentioned,
S4: it requires service to take care of a pet. So, yeah,
S4: it's pretty powerful. Well, let's talk about the core theme
S4: of your book on loneliness. What is the core theme
S4: and how how did you discover the core theme?
S1: Well, as I said in the earlier segment, the core
S1: theme is that it is the love of God through
S1: us to others that mitigates loneliness in us. And I
S1: focus on the gospel, gospel izing our loneliness, not only
S1: looking at our loneliness, but treating our loneliness by the
S1: example of of Jesus, who in utter humility, despite being
S1: the King of kings and Lord of lords, empties himself.
S1: Philippians two gives to us all that he has, and
S1: in doing that provides an example for us as well.
S1: Besides the redeeming, he provides an example for us of
S1: what the kind of life that is the least lonely
S1: and the most satisfying. And it has to do with
S1: whether we are oriented toward ourself or oriented towards towards
S1: other people. So pride is our enemy. Uh, it is
S1: the enemy of relational flourishing. It is the enemy of
S1: everything that God intends for us, the blessings of being
S1: image bearers. It complicates relationships. And so, uh, in order
S1: for us to conquer loneliness, we have to get over ourselves.
S1: If I could, uh, vamp on a old sentence, be
S1: killing pride or pride will be killing your relationships. And
S1: I discovered this because of my own selfishness and my own,
S1: you know, self-orientation that, you know, over time, I can
S1: look at and see how it has affected key relationships
S1: in my life. I would imagine most of us probably
S1: can look in the mirror similarly and see how our
S1: selfishness adds to our loneliness. It diminishes the relationships that
S1: we could otherwise have, and it amplifies that achy, lonely
S1: feeling inside.
S5: So I go.
S1: Back to the gospel. I go back to the the
S1: call of what it means to be a Christian, that
S1: we are to take up our cross and to follow Jesus. And,
S1: you know, by how do we gain life? By losing
S1: our life and those who lose their life, Jesus says,
S1: will find it. We'll will gain it. And this includes
S1: the blessing that God intended restored relationship with him and
S1: others to provide in our life. And I would see
S1: that as a byproduct. You know, Loneliness isn't the main
S1: thing in New Testament theology, but it certainly is a byproduct.
S1: Blessing of following Jesus, taking up our cross, living by
S1: his example, denying ourselves, dying to ourselves, and living for
S1: the for the good and joy of others. And that
S1: whole gospel paradigm not only glorifies God, but it produces
S1: good in us. And I would maintain the person who's
S1: dying to themselves living for others. Serving Jesus is going
S1: to have a hard time going home and finding loneliness.
S4: I hope our listeners are listening to what you just
S4: said because it is absolutely, incredibly powerful. And you're right,
S4: it is at the heart of the gospel. Steve, as
S4: we come toward the end of our time together, let's
S4: say that someone is listening today who has chronic loneliness.
S4: I mean, it's just been with them for a long
S4: time and it's very, very deep. What are a few
S4: things that they might do that would help them in
S4: that situation?
S1: Well, this is my story and I want to first
S1: of all say that I understand, no matter how contributing
S1: you've been to your isolation, your loneliness, perhaps your aloneness.
S1: I want you to know that there is a way
S1: for this to be redeemed, and that God's will is
S1: not for his children to be lonely. To flash a
S1: little flicker of hope that it doesn't always have to
S1: be this way, I think would be the first thing,
S1: because one of the things about loneliness that I think
S1: it brings with it this sense that it will never
S1: be better than this, that I'm always going to feel
S1: this way, that that this is the, you know, this
S1: is the curse of the rest of my life. And
S1: I want to say emphatically, it doesn't have to be
S1: that way for you. We begin there. Okay. You're not stuck. Secondly,
S1: I would encourage, you know, we were talking about, uh,
S1: pride earlier. There may be reasons that an honest friend,
S1: trusted mentor, somebody that you could ask that they might
S1: identify as being contributing to your loneliness. We all have
S1: blind spots, you know, we all have kind of relational idiosyncrasies,
S1: some of which get in the way of healthy relationships.
S1: And I would encourage you to think about somebody that
S1: you could be honest with and just ask them, what
S1: do you see in the manner of my life, my
S1: personality traits, the way I relate to people, uh, that
S1: you think cause this, I want to redeem it. I
S1: don't want to be stuck. And would you please be
S1: honest with me? Because, you know, sometimes these things can
S1: be fairly easily tweaked and a little tweaking can go
S1: a long ways towards healthy relationships. Obviously, the gospel urges
S1: us to forgiveness and towards a posture of of peace
S1: towards other people. And maybe that loneliness is a broken
S1: relationship that in some measure could be healed and would
S1: at least, you know, dial down the pain that it represents.
S1: I also would add, I think social media today is
S1: a terribly complicating factor in loneliness. And all the studies
S1: indicate that, you know, the doomscrolling, they call it the
S1: bed rotting where you just lay in bed and, you know,
S1: just constantly going through social media, all of that. It
S1: doesn't help. It hurts. You know, we think that we're
S1: actually seeing what people are doing. We're more connected. No
S1: we're not. God intended us to be embodied, okay? We're
S1: made for face to face relationships with other people. And
S1: the whole social media phenomenon has been hugely detrimental to
S1: healthy human relationships. And so then I would further add
S1: that a healthy local church can be a huge blessing
S1: for somebody who's lonely. And not every church is is healthy.
S1: And not every Christian you're going to say hi to is,
S1: you know, is healthy. But I would encourage Christian people
S1: struggling with loneliness to go to church. But here's the deal.
S1: You don't go to church thinking, who can I meet?
S1: That's going to satisfy the relational longings of my heart.
S1: If you do that, you will remain lonely, and you
S1: probably won't stick in that church very long. We go
S1: to God's people. We go to the community of faith,
S1: and our heart and posture is, who here can I serve?
S1: Who's relational needs can I meet? How can I come
S1: here as a servant? How can I carry that cross
S1: into the church Again, we deal with the ache of loneliness.
S1: We give it away. Okay. You have to give your
S1: loneliness away. And a local church is a great place
S1: to do that. And perhaps even go to the pastor
S1: and say, hey, you know what? I'm coming here. I boy,
S1: I have been alone and I'm just craving community. I
S1: want to serve. What can I do? And I'll bet
S1: every pastor would, you know, he'd smile and be so
S1: happy and and I suspect six months, six months from now,
S1: your internal experience of loneliness will be very different if
S1: you give yourself to serving God in a in a
S1: local church. So those would be a few tips. I
S1: got a few more in the book. But you're not
S1: stuck brother sister, you're not stuck. Redeem it, redeem it.
S1: And and I think God will will bless you in
S1: your endeavor to do so.
S4: Well, Steve, that's a good word. And I know if
S4: there are those listening today who are suffering from chronic loneliness,
S4: these these practical steps you just gave are powerful. And
S4: I want to encourage our listeners to get the book,
S4: read the book. God will use the kind of things
S4: you've heard today on the air as you read through
S4: it again, and think through your way through it. You
S4: can take the kind of positive steps that that pastor
S4: has been talking about. So thanks again for being with
S4: us today, and thanks for sharing a part of your
S4: own journey. And uh, uh, you're actually doing what you're preaching.
S4: You're serving others by writing this book. So thank you
S4: for that ministry.
S3: You bet. Well, we hope this conversation has encouraged you
S3: on this topic of loneliness. To dig deeper, go to
S3: the website. Building relationships.us. You'll see Pastor Steve DeWitt's book loneliness.
S3: Don't hate it or waste it, redeem it again. Go
S3: to building relationships.us. Coming up next week, the unimaginable loss
S3: that Ed and Lisa Young went through. It's one of
S3: the highlights of this past year, and you'll hear the
S3: conversation as we continue our summer Best of broadcast.
S2: Don't miss it before we conclude a big thank you
S2: to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice. Backing building
S2: relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody
S2: Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody
S2: Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.