1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,000 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, equip, 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: and enlighten you to get out there and influence and 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,040 S1: occupy until he comes. And on that note, may I 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,080 S1: take just a few moments here to describe this month's 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,920 S1: truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written the 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,040 S1: book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I absolutely 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,520 S1: love this book because it reminds us that in Christ 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: all things pass away. All things become new, that we 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,240 S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,120 S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's 16 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,600 S1: telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost and they're hurting. 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,760 S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,200 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,110 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to 24 00:01:02,150 --> 00:01:04,190 S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor 25 00:01:04,190 --> 00:01:06,670 S1: Jack's book. Click it on. Give a gift and you'll 26 00:01:06,670 --> 00:01:08,190 S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy 27 00:01:08,190 --> 00:01:10,030 S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you 28 00:01:10,030 --> 00:01:12,550 S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who 29 00:01:12,550 --> 00:01:15,190 S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing. 30 00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:17,190 S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners 31 00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:18,790 S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each 32 00:01:18,830 --> 00:01:21,630 S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which 33 00:01:21,670 --> 00:01:24,270 S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only 34 00:01:24,270 --> 00:01:26,789 S1: for my partial partners. So whether it's a one time 35 00:01:26,790 --> 00:01:28,590 S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and 36 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:30,910 S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want 37 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:34,070 S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. 38 00:01:34,069 --> 00:01:37,310 S1: Or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Now 39 00:01:37,310 --> 00:01:39,150 S1: please enjoy the broadcast. 40 00:01:40,709 --> 00:01:42,230 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 41 00:01:42,550 --> 00:01:44,789 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 42 00:01:44,990 --> 00:01:46,990 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 43 00:01:47,310 --> 00:01:50,750 S3: Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years. 44 00:01:50,750 --> 00:01:52,790 S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 45 00:02:08,100 --> 00:02:08,700 S3: Hi friends. 46 00:02:08,700 --> 00:02:11,020 S1: Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Thank you 47 00:02:11,020 --> 00:02:13,780 S1: so much for joining us. Got those dialing fingers ready. 48 00:02:13,820 --> 00:02:19,060 S1: Well you're going to need this (877) 548-3675. That's our number 49 00:02:19,060 --> 00:02:21,380 S1: here on in the market with Janet partial. We're going 50 00:02:21,419 --> 00:02:24,220 S1: to take any questions you have on the topic of 51 00:02:24,220 --> 00:02:32,299 S1: narcissism (877) 548-3675. It is a dangerous deadly and very often 52 00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:36,580 S1: misunderstood personality disorder, particularly misunderstood in the church. And as 53 00:02:36,580 --> 00:02:39,900 S1: a result of that, people suffer. Very often they suffer 54 00:02:39,900 --> 00:02:42,940 S1: in silence because they haven't gotten the right counsel on 55 00:02:42,940 --> 00:02:45,820 S1: this circumstance. They start beating themselves up even though they're 56 00:02:45,820 --> 00:02:49,260 S1: downstream of the abuse from the abuser. And narcissism is 57 00:02:49,260 --> 00:02:53,540 S1: nothing but a form of abuse, typically not the broken nose, 58 00:02:53,540 --> 00:02:56,140 S1: the broken arm, something you can't see on the outside. Oh, 59 00:02:56,180 --> 00:02:59,290 S1: but damage on the inside irreparable if it were not 60 00:02:59,290 --> 00:03:01,609 S1: for the cause of the cross. And so we keep 61 00:03:01,610 --> 00:03:04,410 S1: having this conversation with Laurel Slade Wagner, because we know 62 00:03:04,410 --> 00:03:08,490 S1: that there are people out there who are hurting for ten, 15, 20, 63 00:03:08,570 --> 00:03:11,530 S1: 40 years. Have they never told anybody they think there's 64 00:03:11,530 --> 00:03:14,530 S1: something wrong with them. They think they're going crazy because 65 00:03:14,530 --> 00:03:17,530 S1: the person they're living with has never been either identified 66 00:03:17,530 --> 00:03:20,770 S1: or sought counseling, or you haven't gotten a professional opinion 67 00:03:20,770 --> 00:03:23,370 S1: that this is a form of abuse that's causing pain. 68 00:03:23,370 --> 00:03:25,770 S1: So that's why we keep having these conversations. Because you 69 00:03:25,770 --> 00:03:28,850 S1: know what? The lines light up. So fair warning, get 70 00:03:28,850 --> 00:03:30,490 S1: in your call as quickly as you can. At the 71 00:03:30,490 --> 00:03:32,489 S1: end of every conversation I have with Laurel, I always 72 00:03:32,490 --> 00:03:34,050 S1: have to say I'm sorry for all the calls we 73 00:03:34,050 --> 00:03:36,490 S1: couldn't get in. And I particularly say to those of 74 00:03:36,490 --> 00:03:38,690 S1: you whose questions didn't get in to be at the 75 00:03:38,690 --> 00:03:40,130 S1: front of the line this time, so we can try 76 00:03:40,130 --> 00:03:45,850 S1: to get your question this go around (877) 548-3675. While you're 77 00:03:45,850 --> 00:03:47,730 S1: thinking of your question and calling in, let me give 78 00:03:47,730 --> 00:03:50,890 S1: the formal introduction to Laurel Slade Wagner. She is a 79 00:03:50,890 --> 00:03:54,810 S1: board certified professional Christian counselor, a licensed mental health counselor, 80 00:03:54,810 --> 00:03:57,490 S1: and a licensed marriage and family counselor, all within the 81 00:03:57,490 --> 00:03:59,810 S1: state of Florida, where she's had a private practice for 82 00:03:59,810 --> 00:04:02,890 S1: over 20 years. She's written two books that were self-published. 83 00:04:02,890 --> 00:04:05,370 S1: One is called Don't Let Their Crazy Make You Crazy 84 00:04:05,610 --> 00:04:08,050 S1: How to Stay Sane and Strong. When the narcissists in 85 00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:10,530 S1: Your life is trying to control you. The second, because 86 00:04:10,570 --> 00:04:14,090 S1: children are so very often pieces on a chessboard, they 87 00:04:14,130 --> 00:04:16,810 S1: are the pawns played in this game. It's called don't 88 00:04:16,810 --> 00:04:19,810 S1: let your. They're crazy. Make your kids crazy. How to 89 00:04:19,850 --> 00:04:23,810 S1: shield your children from their narcissistic parents control and manipulation. 90 00:04:23,810 --> 00:04:26,770 S1: And soon. Her third book, which is going to be 91 00:04:26,770 --> 00:04:29,610 S1: published by Moody Publishers, will come out and we'll get 92 00:04:29,610 --> 00:04:31,810 S1: more into that. I have been told by Little Birdy 93 00:04:31,810 --> 00:04:33,770 S1: that I actually get the first interview when it comes out, 94 00:04:33,770 --> 00:04:35,850 S1: so I'm very much looking forward to that because I 95 00:04:35,850 --> 00:04:38,210 S1: can't wait to platform that book. I should tell you 96 00:04:38,210 --> 00:04:40,250 S1: also that Laurel's got a website. Why do we put 97 00:04:40,250 --> 00:04:44,210 S1: the website on the information page of our website? Because 98 00:04:44,210 --> 00:04:46,130 S1: you're going to ask a question and that's fabulous. But 99 00:04:46,130 --> 00:04:49,250 S1: if you really wanted to do a deep dive and 100 00:04:49,250 --> 00:04:50,890 S1: you are a national radio, if you wanted to get 101 00:04:50,890 --> 00:04:54,210 S1: into personal details, you'd want to have a private professional 102 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,520 S1: conversation with her, and you can go to the website 103 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,600 S1: and set that up on your own. Laurel literally takes 104 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,840 S1: phone calls from all across the country. So feel free 105 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,680 S1: to do that because all kinds of people are doing it. 106 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,200 S1: You don't have to live in the state of Florida 107 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,480 S1: to talk to her. So the website is there. She 108 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,279 S1: also has a podcast. It's a fabulous free resource called help. 109 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,679 S1: I have a narcissist in my life. Just go wherever 110 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,120 S1: you find your favorite podcasts and you'll be able to 111 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:21,919 S1: download it as well. So check all of that out (877) 548-3675. Laurel, 112 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,440 S1: I'm thrilled you're here. And as our friends are getting 113 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,520 S1: on board, I want to talk about an article that 114 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,440 S1: I found that uses an an acronym special me s 115 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,240 S1: p e c I a l m e. And why 116 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,520 S1: I like this is because very often we'll get our 117 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,880 S1: friends who'll call in and say, well, what's the difference 118 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,839 S1: between selfishness and narcissism? And how do you know if 119 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,760 S1: they're narcissists? How do I know if I'm a narcissist? 120 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,800 S1: And this acronym does an absolutely fabulous job of sort 121 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:52,080 S1: of ticking off these key self identifiers or observable identifiers, 122 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,790 S1: I probably should say better that all work around the 123 00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:57,110 S1: phrase special me. So talk me through this if you'd 124 00:05:57,150 --> 00:05:57,910 S1: be so kind. 125 00:05:59,190 --> 00:06:02,430 S5: Thank you, Janet, for having me back on. Yes, I 126 00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:05,670 S5: saw the article and I thought they did such a 127 00:06:05,670 --> 00:06:09,430 S5: great job of very succinctly putting it in a way 128 00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:11,830 S5: that we can easily remember, because I think it's important 129 00:06:11,830 --> 00:06:16,390 S5: that we easily remember what a narcissistic person is, so 130 00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:19,349 S5: that we know how to interact with that person. So 131 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:25,390 S5: the S stands for they have a sense of self-importance there. 132 00:06:25,589 --> 00:06:28,790 S5: They think they're superior. They think that their agenda matters 133 00:06:28,790 --> 00:06:31,989 S5: more than other people. They will always bring the focus 134 00:06:31,990 --> 00:06:35,670 S5: back to themselves. The P stands for they have this 135 00:06:35,670 --> 00:06:42,789 S5: preoccupation with unlimited power or beauty or success or even love. They. 136 00:06:42,950 --> 00:06:48,229 S5: They just think that they are deserving of the best 137 00:06:48,230 --> 00:06:53,940 S5: of power, the most of beauty, the most success and 138 00:06:53,980 --> 00:06:57,940 S5: the ideal love. So they're preoccupied with it. They're they're 139 00:06:57,980 --> 00:07:00,419 S5: questing after it because they think they deserve the best. 140 00:07:00,820 --> 00:07:05,620 S5: The E is entitled they have this overinflated sense of entitlement. 141 00:07:05,620 --> 00:07:09,339 S5: So they believe that they are entitled to anything that 142 00:07:09,339 --> 00:07:12,060 S5: they want. And if they don't get it, that's where 143 00:07:12,340 --> 00:07:16,420 S5: you get a lot of that manipulation and reactivity. Um, 144 00:07:16,980 --> 00:07:23,300 S5: temper tantrums, rage, all that manipulation so that they control 145 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:26,700 S5: people into giving them what they want. The C is 146 00:07:27,340 --> 00:07:30,420 S5: can only be around people who are important or special, 147 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:34,900 S5: so they think they're superior and everyone else is beneath them. 148 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:39,020 S5: So they will quest for the best, um, except nothing less, 149 00:07:39,020 --> 00:07:42,060 S5: and think that they can only be around other people 150 00:07:42,100 --> 00:07:47,140 S5: who are the best of the best. Um, the I 151 00:07:47,180 --> 00:07:51,370 S5: is for interpersonally exploitative for their own gain. This is 152 00:07:51,370 --> 00:07:53,650 S5: what I spent a lot of my time talking about. 153 00:07:54,210 --> 00:07:57,570 S5: How they exploit people, how they manipulate people, what that 154 00:07:57,570 --> 00:08:01,850 S5: looks like, uh, how they gaslight people, how they fog them, 155 00:08:01,890 --> 00:08:03,690 S5: try to get them to make decisions out of fear 156 00:08:03,690 --> 00:08:07,010 S5: of obligation or guilt so that they get what they want. 157 00:08:07,370 --> 00:08:12,730 S5: The A is for arrogant. They are very haughty. Um, 158 00:08:13,130 --> 00:08:17,930 S5: looking down on everyone. There's they're always right. They use 159 00:08:17,970 --> 00:08:22,130 S5: a lot. They think dichotomously. So they're always right. They're 160 00:08:22,130 --> 00:08:25,850 S5: always the one that's better. There's very arrogant. Um, the 161 00:08:25,850 --> 00:08:30,970 S5: owl is for lack empathy. Narcissists do not have any 162 00:08:31,010 --> 00:08:34,370 S5: feelings for other people, not from an emotional standpoint. They 163 00:08:34,370 --> 00:08:39,689 S5: may understand what empathy is from a definition standpoint or 164 00:08:39,890 --> 00:08:45,290 S5: a cognitive standpoint, but they don't feel compassion and empathy 165 00:08:45,290 --> 00:08:49,840 S5: for another person's pain or circumstance. The Em is they 166 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,360 S5: must be admired. They have an excessive need for attention 167 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,200 S5: and affirmation. So they're constantly questing after that, and they 168 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,959 S5: build these narcissistic feeding systems so that they make sure 169 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,080 S5: they're getting that from somewhere. And the E is they're 170 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,199 S5: envious of other people or they believe that people are 171 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,319 S5: envious of them. 172 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:08,000 S3: Wow. 173 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,320 S1: What a breakdown. Yeah. Wow. Special me. That was a 174 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,280 S1: wonderful way to say these are the signs of narcissistic 175 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,959 S1: personality disorder. I have a thousand questions, but my friends, 176 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,600 S1: you get to take the lead on this because I 177 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:27,360 S1: want your question answered by Laurel. (877) 548-3675. When we come back, 178 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:32,240 S1: we'll go right to the phones because you're already lined up. (877) 548-3675. 179 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:46,680 S1: Your questions right after this. The Bible calls us to 180 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,760 S1: be bold and courageous for the cause of the cross. 181 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,679 S1: But too often we retreat because of fear of cultural blowback. 182 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,000 S1: That's why I've chosen call to take a bold stand 183 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,600 S1: as this month's truth tool discover how to overcome the 184 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,679 S1: fear of intimidation or persecution. As for your copy of 185 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,360 S1: call to take a bold stand when you give a 186 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,199 S1: gift of any amount to in the market, call 877. 187 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,960 S1: Janet 58. That's 877. Janet 58. Or go to in 188 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,640 S1: the market with Janet partial dot o r g. We 189 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,760 S1: are visiting with board certified professional Christian counselor Laurel Wagner 190 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,839 S1: on the topic of narcissism. This is very much her 191 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,600 S1: specialty because she has shared with us before. So I'm 192 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,560 S1: not telling tales out of school here. Daughter of a 193 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,920 S1: narcissist of two narcissists, married formerly to a narcissist as well. 194 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,760 S1: So that one of the precious aspects of Laurel is 195 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,760 S1: that it isn't just book learning. And she's got all 196 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,479 S1: of that. She's been there. She is quintessentially the biblical 197 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,120 S1: example of a wounded comforter. So I'm thrilled that you 198 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,800 S1: get to ask your questions. Debbie, I'm going to start 199 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,880 S1: with you in Tennessee. Thanks so much for being here. 200 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,440 S1: And your question, please, for Laurel. 201 00:10:47,590 --> 00:10:51,869 S6: Yes. Um, my question is this how do you handle 202 00:10:51,870 --> 00:10:55,870 S6: when your child, your adult child is married? A narcissist 203 00:10:55,870 --> 00:10:57,870 S6: keeps you away from your child, your adult child, and 204 00:10:57,870 --> 00:11:01,310 S6: keeps you away from the grandchildren by manipulation? 205 00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:07,390 S5: Yeah, that's a very, very common happening right now. So it's, 206 00:11:07,710 --> 00:11:11,790 S5: it's so excruciating to, you know, a lot of people 207 00:11:11,790 --> 00:11:14,790 S5: I work with, they have these wonderful relationships with their 208 00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:18,510 S5: adult child and their adult child marries someone who's narcissistic 209 00:11:18,510 --> 00:11:23,950 S5: and that that narcissistic person isolates them. And then before 210 00:11:23,950 --> 00:11:26,189 S5: you know it, they're not even able to talk to 211 00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:31,150 S5: their adult child. So you're not alone in this. It's 212 00:11:31,150 --> 00:11:35,150 S5: happening so much. So the goal is to try to 213 00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:41,069 S5: get your adult child alone somehow, someway, have some kind 214 00:11:41,510 --> 00:11:45,260 S5: of conversation with that person. And then when you do 215 00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:49,620 S5: get to contact your adult child, you don't want to say, 216 00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:52,420 S5: I think your wife is a narcissist, or I think 217 00:11:52,460 --> 00:11:55,860 S5: your husband is a narcissist because they're in this bind. 218 00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:57,980 S5: They have to live with that person. So you just 219 00:11:57,980 --> 00:12:03,179 S5: want to work really hard on reconnecting so that there's 220 00:12:03,220 --> 00:12:07,380 S5: this line of communication that they know that you're there, 221 00:12:07,420 --> 00:12:10,660 S5: and then you slowly start to be able to talk 222 00:12:10,660 --> 00:12:14,380 S5: about what, um, what you're learning. You know, say that 223 00:12:14,380 --> 00:12:17,540 S5: you're doing a lot of research on what healthy relationships are. 224 00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:20,180 S5: And it's really exciting to learn this stuff and give 225 00:12:20,179 --> 00:12:24,780 S5: them some sort of information about what healthy relating looks like, 226 00:12:24,820 --> 00:12:31,180 S5: like mutual openness, mutual respect for time and feelings and priorities, 227 00:12:31,179 --> 00:12:33,540 S5: different things like that. Because what you're trying to do 228 00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:36,980 S5: is just plant the seeds. So if they don't know 229 00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:40,700 S5: that they're in a toxic, unhealthy relationship, they start to 230 00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:44,450 S5: realize that they are. So if you say things like 231 00:12:44,450 --> 00:12:46,690 S5: you need to leave that person or you need to 232 00:12:46,690 --> 00:12:50,410 S5: do this, that's just one more, one more person that's 233 00:12:50,450 --> 00:12:52,810 S5: controlling them in their life and they're going to take 234 00:12:52,809 --> 00:12:55,410 S5: the course of least resistance because they live with that 235 00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:59,130 S5: narcissistic person. So they might, you know, stop talking to 236 00:12:59,130 --> 00:13:04,329 S5: you completely. So it's just really trying to get your 237 00:13:04,490 --> 00:13:09,569 S5: adult child alone away from that narcissistic person and just 238 00:13:09,730 --> 00:13:14,170 S5: build that rapport and pray, pray that their eyes are 239 00:13:14,170 --> 00:13:19,809 S5: opened and that they're willing to be courageous and set boundaries. 240 00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:22,490 S5: You know, you can buy them some books. There's lots 241 00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:26,290 S5: of books on healthy relationships. I love, um, Henry Cloud 242 00:13:26,290 --> 00:13:31,330 S5: and John Townsend's work. They have a book called Safe People. Um, 243 00:13:31,330 --> 00:13:34,210 S5: so anything you can do to try to educate your 244 00:13:34,210 --> 00:13:38,250 S5: adult child on what healthy relationships, relationships look like and 245 00:13:38,450 --> 00:13:41,410 S5: then what they don't look like, what, what is the 246 00:13:41,410 --> 00:13:46,079 S5: sign of a toxic relationship. In a toxic relationship, there's 247 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:52,640 S5: an imbalance of power and responsibility and effort. And so 248 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,840 S5: in a healthy relationship, there's all that mutuality. There's mutual 249 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:04,000 S5: repentance and mutual openness and honesty and effort and respect 250 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,080 S5: and all those things. And so they could kind of 251 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,520 S5: see the, the contrast because that's what you want them 252 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:10,160 S5: to see. 253 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:10,960 S3: Mhm. 254 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,080 S1: Debbie. I had a wonderful conversation recently. Excuse me, with 255 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,360 S1: Anne Graham Lotz and her daughter, Rachel Ruth on their 256 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,920 S1: newest book called God Won't Leave You There. And it's 257 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,760 S1: about the study of Joseph. And as I was reading 258 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,920 S1: the book, I was struck that Joseph, when he was 259 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,480 S1: falsely accused by Potiphar's wife, was thrown. The Bible uses 260 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,560 S1: the word dungeon, so it isn't even a prison. It 261 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,040 S1: was a dungeon which is even more abysmal. But he 262 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,880 S1: was there. I read my Bible. You can move from 263 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,720 S1: verse to verse in three minutes. He was there 14 years. 264 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,920 S1: And one of the takeaways that Anne and Rachel Ruth 265 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,150 S1: talked about is whenever we find ourselves in horrific circumstances, 266 00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:45,430 S1: rather than focusing in on the circumstances which Joseph could 267 00:14:45,470 --> 00:14:48,270 S1: have done. Sitting there for 14 years, being falsely accused, 268 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:50,830 S1: he turned the situation around and he allowed himself to 269 00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:53,590 S1: be taught by God. Lord, what would you have me 270 00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:56,070 S1: learn in the midst of this situation? Laurel just gave 271 00:14:56,070 --> 00:15:00,150 S1: you a boatload of wonderful, wonderful guidance on how to 272 00:15:00,190 --> 00:15:02,830 S1: heal the dynamic and how to get that reconnection again. 273 00:15:02,830 --> 00:15:05,230 S1: But in the midst of this, none of this slipped 274 00:15:05,230 --> 00:15:07,150 S1: past the king who's sitting on the throne. So if 275 00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:09,590 S1: this is in your life right now, what does he 276 00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:12,070 S1: want you to learn and persevere, to learn in the 277 00:15:12,070 --> 00:15:15,710 S1: midst of this? You know, all that rectification would come overnight. 278 00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:18,430 S1: Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe it'll take years before those 279 00:15:18,430 --> 00:15:21,870 S1: bridges are rebuilt and those relationships reestablished. But one of 280 00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:24,230 S1: the coping skills for all of us, I think, when 281 00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:26,630 S1: we're in a pit of circumstances, is to look up 282 00:15:26,630 --> 00:15:28,390 S1: and say, Lord, what do you want to teach me 283 00:15:28,390 --> 00:15:29,790 S1: in the midst of all of this? And for you, 284 00:15:29,790 --> 00:15:32,110 S1: my friend Debbie, I hope it's sooner rather than later, 285 00:15:32,110 --> 00:15:34,630 S1: but I thank you for sharing and being so transparent 286 00:15:34,630 --> 00:15:37,630 S1: about your situation. Thank you for that. Marsha, you're in Georgia, 287 00:15:37,630 --> 00:15:39,900 S1: I welcome you. I'm glad you're here. Your thoughts please. 288 00:15:40,340 --> 00:15:44,740 S7: Oh, hi. Well, I have a son that's 42 that 289 00:15:44,740 --> 00:15:52,500 S7: she described 100%, which my problem is I have his 290 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:57,980 S7: daughter that I got through foster care because she was 291 00:15:57,980 --> 00:16:02,860 S7: removed from her mother. And I've had her two years, 292 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:08,340 S7: and I have permanent guardianship. He wants a relationship with her. 293 00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:12,420 S7: But the caseworker told me I don't have to let 294 00:16:12,420 --> 00:16:17,860 S7: her see her mom or dad either one. And he 295 00:16:17,860 --> 00:16:20,300 S7: keeps throwing it in my face that I'm keeping her 296 00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:24,100 S7: away from him, and I'm not keeping her away from him. 297 00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:26,860 S7: But I don't feel that it's safe for her to 298 00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:30,580 S7: be with him. Yeah, even for a visitation. 299 00:16:32,380 --> 00:16:37,460 S5: Wow. Well, and that prompting might be from the Holy Spirit. 300 00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:42,820 S5: So you are doing the most loving thing by by 301 00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:48,460 S5: requiring that there's some safety there before there can be reunification. 302 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:54,020 S5: And so what are you looking for? Before he would 303 00:16:54,020 --> 00:16:58,540 S5: be able to have access to his daughter. That's what 304 00:16:58,540 --> 00:17:02,300 S5: you want to make clear, so that he knows you're 305 00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:07,780 S5: not keeping the daughter away, that you are actually working 306 00:17:07,820 --> 00:17:10,419 S5: toward them having a reconciliation. But it's going to be 307 00:17:10,420 --> 00:17:13,020 S5: up to him based on the behavior. This is exactly 308 00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:19,380 S5: what the caseworkers do. If the if the DCF Department 309 00:17:19,380 --> 00:17:24,100 S5: of Children and Families is involved, um, so they, they 310 00:17:24,140 --> 00:17:27,780 S5: will actually have a formal reunification plan. And that's what 311 00:17:27,780 --> 00:17:31,700 S5: you're doing in an informal way. You're not you're not 312 00:17:31,740 --> 00:17:34,060 S5: the one keeping her from me. 313 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:51,130 S1: We'll be right back. (877) 548-3675. That's our number here on 314 00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:56,010 S1: in the market with Janet partial. (877) 548-3675. Our guest Laurel 315 00:17:56,330 --> 00:18:00,250 S1: Wagner a professional Christian counselor who's taking your questions today 316 00:18:00,250 --> 00:18:04,330 S1: on narcissism, all of its various aspects and manifestations. And 317 00:18:04,330 --> 00:18:06,449 S1: we love your questions. And we love even more the 318 00:18:06,450 --> 00:18:09,210 S1: counsel that Laurel gives. Cathy, you're in Indiana. I thank 319 00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:11,250 S1: you so for your patience and your question, please. 320 00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:16,850 S8: I was wondering, so I, I have a person they 321 00:18:16,850 --> 00:18:22,330 S8: don't check off all the boxes on the checklist. And, um, 322 00:18:22,330 --> 00:18:26,130 S8: my main question is, um, is it possible for a 323 00:18:26,130 --> 00:18:32,130 S8: narcissist to, um, be, um, to, you know, come back 324 00:18:32,130 --> 00:18:34,690 S8: around to not being that way? 325 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:42,080 S5: And that's a great question. And so understand, when Jan 326 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,240 S5: and I were talking earlier about the signs of a narcissist, 327 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,680 S5: what that is. We were talking about someone who has 328 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:54,560 S5: narcissistic personality disorder. And so people who have a personality 329 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,639 S5: disorder have this, this very rigid way of thinking. There's 330 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:04,040 S5: no changing their mind. Um, as Proverbs 18 two says, 331 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,080 S5: a fool finds no pleasure in understanding, but delights in 332 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,200 S5: airing their own opinions and people who have narcissistic traits. 333 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,879 S5: That's what the Bible calls being a biblical fool. And 334 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,520 S5: so people who have a personality disorder, they're not open 335 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,680 S5: to growing and learning new things and self reflecting and 336 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,679 S5: self correcting. So there's other people who don't have a 337 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,760 S5: personality disorder. They don't meet criteria. They don't. In order 338 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,630 S5: to get diagnosed, you have to have five of the 339 00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:41,350 S5: nine criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. If someone has narcissistic traits, 340 00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:45,950 S5: they might be at first super self-absorbed. But then when 341 00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:51,470 S5: things are brought to their attention, they'll modify their behavior reluctantly, 342 00:19:51,470 --> 00:19:55,790 S5: but they'll modify their behavior and and they'll grow and 343 00:19:55,830 --> 00:20:00,750 S5: they'll change to meet the demands of relationships and circumstances. 344 00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:04,470 S5: So it's everything's on the continuum. And this is such 345 00:20:04,510 --> 00:20:07,830 S5: a gray area because it's not if someone, a narcissist 346 00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:10,590 S5: or aren't they a narcissist, it's on a continuum. And 347 00:20:10,590 --> 00:20:13,710 S5: every trait is on a continuum to see how much 348 00:20:13,710 --> 00:20:17,910 S5: they interfere with life and relationships. So if someone just 349 00:20:17,910 --> 00:20:21,550 S5: has narcissistic traits, yes, you can talk with them. They 350 00:20:21,550 --> 00:20:24,270 S5: might be manipulative at first, but they will. They will 351 00:20:24,270 --> 00:20:27,590 S5: modify their behavior to work for the good of the relationship. 352 00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:31,630 S5: Someone who has a full blown personality disorder, they will not. 353 00:20:31,670 --> 00:20:35,940 S5: They absolutely will not. Like Proverbs 1512 says, a mocker 354 00:20:35,940 --> 00:20:39,740 S5: resents correction. He will not consult the wise. He just 355 00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:43,340 S5: will not open up their minds to grow and change. 356 00:20:43,780 --> 00:20:46,699 S1: Wow, Kathy, thank you very much. What a great verse. Laurel. 357 00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:49,060 S1: Thank you for that. Susan, you're in Illinois. Thanks for 358 00:20:49,060 --> 00:20:51,460 S1: joining us and we'd love to hear your question now, please. 359 00:20:52,260 --> 00:20:54,420 S9: Hi there. I'll try to make this short and sweet. 360 00:20:54,580 --> 00:20:56,940 S9: I know someone who's been in a six year marriage 361 00:20:56,940 --> 00:21:03,020 S9: and predominantly it's been emotionally abusive. Definitely a narcissistic partner. Um, 362 00:21:03,020 --> 00:21:06,580 S9: she's reached the point of just being so angry that 363 00:21:06,580 --> 00:21:09,540 S9: she's almost checked out. Her partner did agree to go 364 00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:13,100 S9: to marriage counseling, and it appears he's trying to make 365 00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:15,820 S9: efforts to move in the right direction. But she is 366 00:21:15,820 --> 00:21:20,700 S9: so battered and bruised and angry and gripping the unforgiveness 367 00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:23,340 S9: because she does not trust that this is genuine and 368 00:21:23,340 --> 00:21:26,620 S9: that this is going to be long term. How can 369 00:21:26,619 --> 00:21:30,139 S9: I counsel her, point her back to the Lord? But 370 00:21:30,140 --> 00:21:33,530 S9: while living in reality of what that situation is. 371 00:21:35,410 --> 00:21:40,690 S5: And that's a great circumstance to bring up, Susan, because 372 00:21:41,290 --> 00:21:43,929 S5: this is what I spent a lot of time working 373 00:21:43,930 --> 00:21:47,890 S5: with people on in my audio phone advice sessions is 374 00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:52,410 S5: how to know the difference between regret versus repentance and 375 00:21:52,410 --> 00:21:56,130 S5: then inviting the narcissist into a plan of change. And 376 00:21:56,170 --> 00:22:00,770 S5: then if if they're not changing or if they're, uh, 377 00:22:01,170 --> 00:22:04,450 S5: breadcrumbing where they're just putting in the minimal effort, but 378 00:22:04,450 --> 00:22:06,810 S5: you can tell that there's not that hunger and thirst 379 00:22:06,810 --> 00:22:12,170 S5: for righteousness. They're not really repentant. Then you utilize that 380 00:22:12,410 --> 00:22:15,850 S5: tool of separation, that redemptive tool of separation, and you 381 00:22:15,850 --> 00:22:20,330 S5: don't move back toward that person until they are repentance. 382 00:22:20,369 --> 00:22:24,570 S5: So I work out these very structured plans of, uh, 383 00:22:24,570 --> 00:22:28,970 S5: I call them a working out of house separation. And 384 00:22:28,970 --> 00:22:32,280 S5: that means both people are working on themselves so she 385 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,040 S5: could be working on learning assertiveness skill. She can be 386 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,160 S5: working on learning how to respond and not react, and 387 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:44,359 S5: to say things where she's empowered and to make sure 388 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,719 S5: that her needs are followed through on and things like that. 389 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,440 S5: So it's a very structured plan. So it's not she 390 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,400 S5: can make the Christian choice to forgive. Absolutely. But reconciliation 391 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,080 S5: comes where there's authentic repentance. So first, you know, she 392 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,360 S5: needs to know the difference between regret versus repentance. And 393 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,960 S5: then she needs to work a very structured plan. And 394 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,159 S5: then it's like I was saying to the other caller, 395 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,119 S5: it's in, it's in his hands. It's the reconciliation will 396 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:20,560 S5: happen or not happen based on his repentance, repentance, and 397 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,440 S5: fruit in keeping with repentance, like the Bible talks about. 398 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,120 S1: MM. Thank you. Susan. I appreciate that. Laurel. On that note, 399 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,119 S1: let me linger, if I may, just a little bit. 400 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,760 S1: That's one of the things, you know, you started out 401 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,119 S1: with an acronym for Special Me, which was brilliant the 402 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,800 S1: way you broke that down. But one of the things 403 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,119 S1: about the The narcissist was, which I found interesting, is 404 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,280 S1: a lack of empathy. That's why from my vantage point, 405 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,440 S1: it's the unprofessional here. There's a little sociopathy in this, 406 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,000 S1: is there not? Which means repentance would mean that you'd 407 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,840 S1: have some feelings. I've heard that person's feelings. Sometimes repentance 408 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,000 S1: can't take place because they don't even have feelings in 409 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,119 S1: the first place, am I right? 410 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,480 S5: You're exactly right, Janet. So sad. But you're exactly right. So. 411 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,760 S5: And that's why they are able to exploit people the 412 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,400 S5: way that they are, because they don't have that empathy. 413 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:09,439 S3: Yeah. Wow. 414 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,000 S1: (877) 548-3675. I love the way I say goodbye and another 415 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,800 S1: caller gets right on. So as many of you as 416 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,919 S1: possible can get your questions answered about this horrific, damaging, 417 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,080 S1: dangerous personality disorder known as narcissism. And I love the 418 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,600 S1: fact that we're pushing this topic out into the sunlight 419 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,670 S1: so you can get some fresh air and a new 420 00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:31,390 S1: perspective because you might be living with a narcissist and 421 00:24:31,390 --> 00:24:37,070 S1: you're looking for help. Help's on the way with Laurel Wagner. (877) 548-3675. 422 00:24:37,109 --> 00:24:57,070 S1: Back after this. We live in a culture that's infatuated 423 00:24:57,070 --> 00:24:59,870 S1: with the latest fads, but Ephesians 415 calls for us 424 00:24:59,869 --> 00:25:02,830 S1: to be stable. No longer infants, Paul said, tossed about 425 00:25:02,830 --> 00:25:05,350 S1: by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching. 426 00:25:05,550 --> 00:25:08,270 S1: And in the market, we're exposing current trends and finding 427 00:25:08,270 --> 00:25:11,190 S1: our balance by standing on the solid foundation of God's Word. 428 00:25:11,230 --> 00:25:14,030 S1: To get exclusive behind the scenes information and benefits, become 429 00:25:14,030 --> 00:25:17,390 S1: a partial partner. Call 877 Janet five eight or go 430 00:25:17,390 --> 00:25:21,869 S1: online to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Oh, we 431 00:25:21,910 --> 00:25:26,030 S1: are visiting with Laurel Wagner, board certified professional Christian counselor, 432 00:25:26,030 --> 00:25:29,179 S1: a licensed mental health counselor, and a licensed marriage and 433 00:25:29,180 --> 00:25:32,179 S1: family therapist. She's got a private practice in the Tampa 434 00:25:32,180 --> 00:25:34,860 S1: Bay area in Florida. Been doing it for over 20 years. 435 00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:37,219 S1: You can connect with her personally because we've put a 436 00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:39,500 S1: link to her website right on ours. Just go to 437 00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:43,020 S1: In the market with Janet Parshall. Under the two hour 438 00:25:43,020 --> 00:25:45,740 S1: summation of what we do each day is a red box. 439 00:25:45,740 --> 00:25:48,780 S1: It says program details and audio. Click that on. It'll 440 00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:50,740 S1: take you over to the information page. There's a longer 441 00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:53,340 S1: bio there from Laurel, a beautiful picture of her, a 442 00:25:53,380 --> 00:25:55,500 S1: link to her website, and on the right hand side, 443 00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:58,380 S1: the two books that she self-published. One is Don't Let 444 00:25:58,380 --> 00:26:00,940 S1: Their Crazy Make You Crazy, and the other is Don't 445 00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:04,260 S1: let their Crazy make Your kids Crazy. And again, sneak peek. 446 00:26:04,380 --> 00:26:06,460 S1: Moody's publishing her third book, which will be out soon, 447 00:26:06,460 --> 00:26:08,620 S1: and we'll talk when that comes out. Don't forget, she's 448 00:26:08,619 --> 00:26:10,939 S1: also got a free resource called help. I have a 449 00:26:10,940 --> 00:26:13,700 S1: narcissist in my life. You can find that wherever you 450 00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:17,139 S1: go to find your favorite podcast. A lot of people online. Valerie, 451 00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:19,100 S1: I'm going to go to you in Mississippi, if I may, please. 452 00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:20,300 S1: Your question for Laurel. 453 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:24,340 S10: Hello. Thank you for having me. I have a family 454 00:26:24,340 --> 00:26:30,889 S10: member who is 100% narcissistic. Um, how how can the 455 00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:35,690 S10: person be, um, functional in life? How can they contribute 456 00:26:35,690 --> 00:26:39,530 S10: to society and not be a burden to everyone and 457 00:26:39,530 --> 00:26:42,209 S10: just an uncomfortable person to be around? 458 00:26:44,369 --> 00:26:49,970 S5: Well, that's, you're describing a lot of either covert narcissists 459 00:26:49,970 --> 00:26:54,290 S5: where they're one person out in public and then behind 460 00:26:54,290 --> 00:26:58,609 S5: closed doors, they're very, very different. So they contribute. Oftentimes 461 00:26:58,609 --> 00:27:02,850 S5: they contribute a lot to society. Um, the ones that do, 462 00:27:02,890 --> 00:27:07,050 S5: there's actually a name for it. It's called communal narcissism. 463 00:27:07,050 --> 00:27:11,490 S5: And so they're out there in the community, oftentimes doing 464 00:27:11,890 --> 00:27:18,170 S5: grandiose things, but the motivation of their heart is self-aggrandizement. 465 00:27:18,170 --> 00:27:23,010 S5: They're self-serving. They're getting a lot of that affirmation and 466 00:27:23,010 --> 00:27:27,040 S5: things like that. So oftentimes they, they can be very, 467 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,080 S5: very high functioning out in society. The people who suffer 468 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,560 S5: the most, the most are the ones that know them 469 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,159 S5: the deepest. And so that's who gets to see the 470 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,200 S5: real them. So they might be very charming and very giving. Um, 471 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,400 S5: they might be a pastor, they might be an elder 472 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,920 S5: in the church, they might run a big ministry, but 473 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,880 S5: behind closed doors, they're very manipulative and controlling. Sometimes they're 474 00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:01,080 S5: chronically indifferent and emotionally neglect their family, um, and pay 475 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,640 S5: a lot more attention to the people who give them 476 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:09,240 S5: attention out in public. So it's, there's just so many 477 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,120 S5: different manifestations. And that's why I just always go back 478 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,880 S5: to the Bible because God is so amazing and he 479 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,080 S5: has outlined what we're dealing with here when we call 480 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,430 S5: it narcissism, he calls it biblical foolishness. So you can 481 00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:28,469 S5: just look at a lot of the scriptures like, um, 482 00:28:28,990 --> 00:28:33,110 S5: Proverbs 1018 says, he who conceals his hatred has lying 483 00:28:33,150 --> 00:28:38,070 S5: lips and, and whoever spreads slander is a fool. And 484 00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:41,950 S5: so really just piecing together, do a Google search on 485 00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:46,630 S5: biblical foolishness and you'll see all of these different, uh, 486 00:28:46,990 --> 00:28:52,150 S5: descriptions of what biblical foolishness is. And then if you 487 00:28:52,190 --> 00:28:57,430 S5: contrast it with the, the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder, 488 00:28:57,430 --> 00:29:00,350 S5: you'll see that they are very, very similar. And the 489 00:29:00,350 --> 00:29:02,990 S5: first book, I actually put a comparison of the Hebrew 490 00:29:03,030 --> 00:29:07,590 S5: words for fool and contrasted it with the criteria for 491 00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:12,230 S5: narcissistic personality disorder. It's just amazing. God tells us exactly 492 00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:14,910 S5: what we're dealing with. And then he has these process 493 00:29:14,910 --> 00:29:17,550 S5: scriptures that tell us what to do when we're faced 494 00:29:17,550 --> 00:29:21,590 S5: with it. So the Bible really does have all the answers. 495 00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:24,030 S5: He does not put us on this earth and leave 496 00:29:24,030 --> 00:29:25,630 S5: us without help. 497 00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:29,070 S1: Thank you Lord. Thank you so much for the question. 498 00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:32,030 S1: Really appreciate it. Michael, in Florida, you've been most patient. 499 00:29:32,030 --> 00:29:34,550 S1: I appreciate that as well. Your question for Laurel, please. 500 00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:39,270 S11: Hi, Janet. Hi, Laurel. Thank you for having me on 501 00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:43,670 S11: and taking my question here. I have been living on 502 00:29:43,670 --> 00:29:46,070 S11: and off with a narcissist, I'm going to say for 503 00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:50,030 S11: about over 15 years. Every trait that you mentioned, this 504 00:29:50,030 --> 00:29:53,110 S11: person has on top of that, this is an incredible 505 00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:58,110 S11: control person and a perfectionist. So I'm kind of looking 506 00:29:58,110 --> 00:30:01,750 S11: for help in ways I can kind of diffuse this person. 507 00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:03,110 S11: So when I'm being attacked. 508 00:30:05,390 --> 00:30:08,870 S5: Well, Michael, that what I was talking about with the 509 00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:13,270 S5: other caller, a few callers back about you said you've 510 00:30:13,270 --> 00:30:15,710 S5: been living on and off. So it sounds like you're 511 00:30:15,710 --> 00:30:18,910 S5: trying to use the redemptive tool of separation, but then 512 00:30:18,910 --> 00:30:22,540 S5: you're reconciling. That's where I say really spend a lot 513 00:30:22,540 --> 00:30:27,140 S5: of time looking at the difference between mere regret and 514 00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:32,420 S5: authentic repentance. Because without authentic repentance, you're just going to 515 00:30:32,460 --> 00:30:35,260 S5: keep repeating the cycle and you're going to stay stuck 516 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:40,100 S5: in this cycle of abuse. And it's just so tormenting. 517 00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:42,900 S5: And so you want to get on a path to 518 00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:47,780 S5: change and right, that that narcissistic person into a plan 519 00:30:47,780 --> 00:30:50,620 S5: of change. And if they don't, then that's where you 520 00:30:50,660 --> 00:30:54,260 S5: use that redemptive tool separation and you don't reconcile until 521 00:30:54,260 --> 00:30:57,140 S5: there is repentance. Now, as far as if you have 522 00:30:57,140 --> 00:31:00,700 S5: to dialogue with that person, that's where there's a lot 523 00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:04,459 S5: of skills you can use based on who that person 524 00:31:04,460 --> 00:31:08,500 S5: is to kind of do your part in keeping things deescalated. 525 00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:12,980 S5: But the focus has to be you and you learning 526 00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:17,940 S5: and you changing your behavior. You cannot change someone who's narcissistic. 527 00:31:17,980 --> 00:31:21,050 S5: They don't want to change. So you're using your free 528 00:31:21,050 --> 00:31:23,410 S5: will to try to get them to change, and they're 529 00:31:23,410 --> 00:31:27,530 S5: using their free will to not change. And that's where 530 00:31:27,530 --> 00:31:31,290 S5: a lot of that manipulation happens and that abuse. So 531 00:31:31,330 --> 00:31:34,450 S5: I recommend working with a with a Christian counselor who 532 00:31:34,450 --> 00:31:39,450 S5: understands power dynamics. Um, you said she's very controlling, very perfectionistic. 533 00:31:39,730 --> 00:31:43,610 S5: You need someone trained. I say a Christian counselor. Absolutely. 534 00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:49,730 S5: And then someone trained in personality disorders and power dynamics. So, um, 535 00:31:50,250 --> 00:31:52,370 S5: that you can get the help and they can teach 536 00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:54,410 S5: you how to be assertive and give you some of 537 00:31:54,410 --> 00:31:56,570 S5: those dialoguing tips for dealing with her. 538 00:31:57,850 --> 00:31:59,810 S1: Thank you. Michael, I hope that's an encouragement to you 539 00:31:59,810 --> 00:32:02,530 S1: and I appreciate your being a part of the conversation. Again, 540 00:32:02,530 --> 00:32:08,170 S1: our number is (877) 548-3675. Our topic narcissism, our guest Laurel 541 00:32:08,170 --> 00:32:10,290 S1: Slade Wagner. And Chris, I'm going to turn to you 542 00:32:10,290 --> 00:32:12,290 S1: next in Kentucky. Thank you for joining us. And we'd 543 00:32:12,290 --> 00:32:13,370 S1: like your question now. 544 00:32:14,650 --> 00:32:17,720 S12: Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. My 545 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,320 S12: daughter is married to a narcissist husband. He's very controlling 546 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,080 S12: of time with our family and being able to speak 547 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,880 S12: with my daughter alone. How do I navigate the boundaries 548 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,120 S12: that he puts up to keep her from our family? 549 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,320 S1: Mhm. Mhm. 550 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,680 S5: And that, that is a great question that I think 551 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,200 S5: one of the callers prior was asking that same question. 552 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,280 S5: I apologize that my tech isn't working. Exactly right. So 553 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,840 S5: I'm having a little bit of trouble hearing people, but 554 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,160 S5: it is going back and trying to open up the 555 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,240 S5: lines of communication with your with your daughter. So it's 556 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,960 S5: trying to get her any way possible. You know, if 557 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,080 S5: she goes to work and she call you on her 558 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,440 S5: commute or can you, if you're local, can you invite her, 559 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,000 S5: you know, to go to lunch? Anything to get get 560 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,360 S5: that rapport going and that accessibility going. You just want 561 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,630 S5: to get her away from her controlling husband so that 562 00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:21,070 S5: you can start to just really be there for her. 563 00:33:21,070 --> 00:33:25,350 S5: And she has a sounding board and she can open up. 564 00:33:25,950 --> 00:33:27,870 S5: You don't want to tell her that, you know, to 565 00:33:27,950 --> 00:33:32,110 S5: leave that narcissist, but you just want to validate her pain, 566 00:33:32,150 --> 00:33:35,030 S5: her frustration. You more than anything, you want to tell 567 00:33:35,030 --> 00:33:40,070 S5: her that she's precious and that she doesn't deserve to be, uh, 568 00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:46,190 S5: to be diminished in her relationship and to have no voice. Um, 569 00:33:46,670 --> 00:33:49,310 S5: and if she's not ready to hear those things, if she, 570 00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:53,350 S5: she doesn't really see that her relationship is unhealthy, that's 571 00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:56,030 S5: where you still you tell her that she's precious and 572 00:33:56,030 --> 00:33:58,630 S5: you start to just really talk about what you're learning, 573 00:33:58,630 --> 00:34:04,150 S5: about how healthy relating and, um, that you're going to 574 00:34:04,150 --> 00:34:06,550 S5: be there for her and you just try to give 575 00:34:06,550 --> 00:34:10,310 S5: her as much education on healthy relating that you can 576 00:34:10,630 --> 00:34:15,340 S5: and letting her know, okay, I'm learning about unhealthy relating to. 577 00:34:15,380 --> 00:34:18,940 S5: And so sometimes people do this when they're in an 578 00:34:18,940 --> 00:34:21,620 S5: unhealthy relationship and all these other kind of things and 579 00:34:21,620 --> 00:34:24,379 S5: letting her know that you're there, um, to help her 580 00:34:24,420 --> 00:34:26,620 S5: if she ever needs to do anything like that. A 581 00:34:26,660 --> 00:34:28,620 S5: lot of, a lot of parents that I work with 582 00:34:28,620 --> 00:34:32,860 S5: will offer, um, offer to pay for an attorney or, 583 00:34:33,260 --> 00:34:37,020 S5: you know, to get a consultation so that they know 584 00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:40,980 S5: what they're looking at legally as far as separating. They 585 00:34:40,980 --> 00:34:43,020 S5: will say, you know, you and the kids can come 586 00:34:43,020 --> 00:34:45,420 S5: and stay with us for a while. You know, just 587 00:34:45,620 --> 00:34:49,220 S5: letting her know that she has choices if she ever 588 00:34:49,219 --> 00:34:53,060 S5: had to make a big boundary like that. 589 00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:56,779 S1: Thank you Chris. Again, I hope you found some encouragement 590 00:34:56,780 --> 00:34:58,660 S1: in what you just heard. Thank you for, again, for 591 00:34:58,660 --> 00:35:00,859 S1: sharing your thoughts and what you're going through. This is 592 00:35:00,860 --> 00:35:03,219 S1: why we have this conversation, by the way, the generational 593 00:35:03,219 --> 00:35:06,580 S1: impacts here. The dynamic is it's excruciating. And you think 594 00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:08,620 S1: very often you're the only person in the world who's 595 00:35:08,620 --> 00:35:11,379 S1: experiencing this. And maybe one of the benefits of these 596 00:35:11,380 --> 00:35:14,049 S1: conversations is that they're very public. I don't think there's 597 00:35:14,050 --> 00:35:17,210 S1: anything more public than a national radio platform. And you're 598 00:35:17,210 --> 00:35:19,529 S1: encouraged that you're hearing, wow, I'm going through that. I'm 599 00:35:19,570 --> 00:35:22,129 S1: not alone. Well, that it isn't just the fact that 600 00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:24,050 S1: you're not alone and you're hearing it from other people. 601 00:35:24,050 --> 00:35:27,049 S1: You're reminded on a regular basis that God knows exactly 602 00:35:27,050 --> 00:35:29,730 S1: where you're at and exactly what you're going through. He 603 00:35:29,770 --> 00:35:33,210 S1: weeps with you because he doesn't want to see you hurt, 604 00:35:33,210 --> 00:35:36,010 S1: and he will protect you, and he will provide for you, 605 00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:38,009 S1: and you will learn things, and it will be hard. 606 00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:40,049 S1: But I gotta tell you, life is made up of 607 00:35:40,090 --> 00:35:43,050 S1: more trials than it is celebrations. And in these trials, 608 00:35:43,050 --> 00:35:46,009 S1: just say, okay, Lord, you're in charge. Nothing's happened to me. 609 00:35:46,010 --> 00:35:48,609 S1: Now that wasn't first vetted in the throne room of heaven. 610 00:35:48,610 --> 00:35:50,169 S1: What do you want me to learn through all of this? 611 00:35:50,170 --> 00:35:53,130 S1: So be encouraged. That's what these conversations are about. Donna, 612 00:35:53,170 --> 00:35:56,129 S1: you've been unbelievably patient in Illinois. Now you're hearing the music. 613 00:35:56,130 --> 00:35:57,810 S1: I'll tell you what. Stay right where you are. I'm 614 00:35:57,810 --> 00:35:59,569 S1: going to take this break because I have to the 615 00:35:59,570 --> 00:36:02,009 S1: clocks my dictator here. And when we come back, I'm 616 00:36:02,010 --> 00:36:03,370 S1: going to go right to you so that you can 617 00:36:03,370 --> 00:36:06,049 S1: ask your question of Laurel Slade Wagner again. Our number 618 00:36:06,050 --> 00:36:10,970 S1: is (877) 548-3675. What a reminder to myself and to Laurel 619 00:36:10,969 --> 00:36:12,850 S1: that as long as we keep getting this kind of 620 00:36:12,850 --> 00:36:15,530 S1: volume of calls on this topic, it means that they're 621 00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:18,410 S1: hurting people out there. And our heart, both Laurel and 622 00:36:18,410 --> 00:36:21,370 S1: minds heart, is we want you to know that God 623 00:36:21,370 --> 00:36:24,530 S1: loves you, that you are precious, to use Laurel's wonderful world, 624 00:36:24,610 --> 00:36:27,810 S1: and that God is very much acquainted with the people 625 00:36:27,810 --> 00:36:31,009 S1: who are absolute fools. And he's given us ways to 626 00:36:31,050 --> 00:37:07,370 S1: endure back after this. Eight seven. 75483675. Donna, you are 627 00:37:07,370 --> 00:37:09,450 S1: in Illinois. And I said I'd come right back to 628 00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:12,239 S1: you after the break. And here I am. Your question please. 629 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,880 S13: Thank you so much. Um, I'm in an interesting situation. 630 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,320 S13: I have had a couple of really, really, really bad years. 631 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,440 S13: I have a family member who is diagnosed with a 632 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,640 S13: debilitating disease. Um, one of my pets just suddenly got 633 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,840 S13: cancer and died. I've had a horrible family fracture. Um, 634 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,080 S13: I am the main helper of the family member. And 635 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,799 S13: in my own spirit, I'm just beginning to feel like 636 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,359 S13: I don't care anymore about anybody. I feel so much. 637 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,799 S13: I've been questioning if I'm a narcissist because I hear 638 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,560 S13: other people have problems, and I'm just trying to determine 639 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,200 S13: if I am a narcissist or if this is just 640 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,040 S13: life's issues right now being so difficult. Um, because I worry, 641 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,440 S13: I worry I have a very strong gift of empathy, 642 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,800 S13: but it feels like it's just gone. It feels like 643 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,240 S13: nothing matters anymore. Does that make sense? 644 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,960 S5: MM mm. Donna. Yes, absolutely. It makes sense. And you 645 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,950 S5: are not a narcissist. You are pressed on every side 646 00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:14,470 S5: like the Bible talks about. Paul talks about being pressed 647 00:38:14,469 --> 00:38:18,510 S5: on every side. You are pressed on every side. And 648 00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:21,350 S5: what happens when we are pressed on every side is 649 00:38:21,350 --> 00:38:26,270 S5: sometimes we become so overwhelmed that we just shut down 650 00:38:26,270 --> 00:38:30,469 S5: and we become numb. Um, I don't know if you've 651 00:38:30,469 --> 00:38:33,430 S5: ever hit your knee really hard on the side of 652 00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:37,109 S5: a table, but you can see stars and you just 653 00:38:37,150 --> 00:38:40,830 S5: kind of it just goes numb. You see black. Sometimes 654 00:38:40,870 --> 00:38:45,910 S5: you just go numb because the pain just hurts so bad. 655 00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:49,510 S5: And so the mere fact that you're on a national 656 00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:52,710 S5: radio program and I hear the tears in your voice, 657 00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:56,510 S5: I hear the genuine concern that you might be narcissistic. 658 00:38:56,830 --> 00:39:00,149 S5: That shows that you're not narcissistic. There's a difference between 659 00:39:00,190 --> 00:39:04,270 S5: being emotionally dumb because you're emotionally numb, because you're pressed 660 00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:08,100 S5: on every side and having a lack of empathy and 661 00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:13,340 S5: no feelings. You're just you're overwhelmed. And so it's kind 662 00:39:13,380 --> 00:39:17,980 S5: of sitting down and prayerfully figuring out what you need 663 00:39:17,980 --> 00:39:21,980 S5: to attend to. What can you delete about the four 664 00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:25,540 S5: D's of managing your time and your stress? So what 665 00:39:25,540 --> 00:39:29,420 S5: do you have to do? What can you delay? What 666 00:39:29,420 --> 00:39:33,260 S5: can you delete and is there anything you can delegate? 667 00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:36,180 S5: And so you you want to figure all that out. 668 00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:39,940 S5: You want to make sure you're building in time just 669 00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:43,620 S5: to sit alone with the Lord and just go outside, 670 00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:46,580 S5: look up, look at the sunshine. Just get away from 671 00:39:46,580 --> 00:39:50,500 S5: the problems. Let your soul just be nourished. You, you 672 00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:54,620 S5: have to do things for yourself so that you can 673 00:39:54,660 --> 00:39:58,780 S5: be there for other people. And so no, I don't 674 00:39:58,780 --> 00:40:01,420 S5: think that your narcissistic, but if you want some questions 675 00:40:01,420 --> 00:40:05,420 S5: to ask yourself, are you willing to take ownership, uh, 676 00:40:05,969 --> 00:40:09,170 S5: Apologize and ask for forgiveness and work at making amends. 677 00:40:09,170 --> 00:40:12,290 S5: If you. If someone says that you hurt them. Um. 678 00:40:12,690 --> 00:40:15,970 S5: Do you feel empathy and compassion when you see somebody hurting? 679 00:40:15,969 --> 00:40:19,170 S5: Not in the current circumstance that you're in now, but 680 00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:24,290 S5: before now, before you're pressed on every side? Um, are 681 00:40:24,290 --> 00:40:26,890 S5: you open to the possibility of being wrong? Are you 682 00:40:26,930 --> 00:40:30,690 S5: willing to look at things from a different perspective? Um, 683 00:40:31,250 --> 00:40:33,569 S5: do you want to grow? Do you want to learn 684 00:40:33,570 --> 00:40:38,009 S5: new things? You obviously do because you're asking on a 685 00:40:38,010 --> 00:40:44,689 S5: national radio program. So you are. I can say I 686 00:40:44,690 --> 00:40:48,930 S5: don't think you're narcissistic and I think you're just overwhelmed 687 00:40:48,930 --> 00:40:52,970 S5: and you need to really work on the self-care and 688 00:40:52,969 --> 00:40:55,810 S5: letting other people love you and spending time with your 689 00:40:55,810 --> 00:40:58,009 S5: heavenly Father who loves you so much, so that you 690 00:40:58,010 --> 00:41:02,609 S5: can just drink in his love and just just resource 691 00:41:02,610 --> 00:41:06,040 S5: yourself again. So and that's not being selfish. By the way, 692 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,919 S5: self-care is different than selfishness. Self-Care is is absolutely crucial 693 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,839 S5: for us to be able to be there for other people. 694 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,000 S1: Yeah, Elijah was getting some self-care when he was exhausted 695 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,959 S1: after running from Jezebel and Ahab, and the Lord brought 696 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,720 S1: him dinner by birds. That was the ultimate first Uber 697 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,440 S1: was there not. That was Uber Eats right there by 698 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,480 S1: the brook. So the point is, sometimes we just collapse 699 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,840 S1: next to Sharath Brook, and the Lord provides us shade 700 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,080 S1: from the juniper tree and then meets all of our needs. 701 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,040 S1: And just being absolutely emotionally tanked out doesn't make you 702 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,759 S1: a bad person. It means life can overwhelm us. And 703 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,560 S1: aren't you glad that he's there to pick us up 704 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,080 S1: when we need him so desperately? Thank you Donna, I 705 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,000 S1: really appreciate your being a part of this boy. Judy, 706 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,080 S1: you have Susan rather in Illinois. You've been so, so patient. 707 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,960 S1: I appreciate it very much for sticking through this conversation, 708 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,680 S1: because I want to take your question now. 709 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,600 S14: Thank you. And it is God's timing that I get 710 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,879 S14: to ask this of Laurel today I am a caregiver 711 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,880 S14: for my ex-husband. Actually, I've been his caregiver for about 712 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:15,840 S14: four years now. And, um, I've been, uh, subjected to 713 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:21,440 S14: all the, the hurts that a narcissistic person gives. And, uh, 714 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,919 S14: so there's no doubt in my mind he's got those characteristics, but, uh. 715 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,000 S14: Time's up. I'm leaving. That's it. I can't take it anymore. 716 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,240 S14: But he's got cancer. So here I am, leaving him 717 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,280 S14: at the time when he's just down and vulnerable and 718 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,840 S14: and but that hasn't stopped the, uh, the narcissistic behavior either. 719 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,520 S14: So I want to break away. I am breaking away, 720 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,680 S14: but I'm kicking myself for kicking him when he's down. Oh. 721 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,840 S5: What a beautiful heart that you have to be able 722 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,280 S5: to do that. I don't know too many people that, um, 723 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,669 S5: are willing to be the caregiver for an And ex-husband 724 00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:10,670 S5: whose narcissistic. So you do not owe him anything. You 725 00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:14,149 S5: can set some serious boundaries with him and let him 726 00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:17,310 S5: know that in order for you to do certain things 727 00:43:17,310 --> 00:43:20,750 S5: for him and care for him, it's going to be 728 00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:27,230 S5: under the conditions of blank. You know what? Respectful behavior. Um, 729 00:43:28,430 --> 00:43:34,029 S5: caring behavior so that he's not annihilating you emotionally. So 730 00:43:34,070 --> 00:43:36,190 S5: he if he's not willing to do that, then you're 731 00:43:36,190 --> 00:43:39,390 S5: going to have to pull back your presence more and more. 732 00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:42,630 S5: You can work to find other resources who can care 733 00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:47,830 S5: for him, um, and give him those resources. But you, 734 00:43:48,350 --> 00:43:51,990 S5: God does not want you to continue to put yourself 735 00:43:51,989 --> 00:43:56,750 S5: in a position of being abused because he has cancer. 736 00:43:56,989 --> 00:43:59,509 S5: And this is a really hard lesson I had to 737 00:43:59,510 --> 00:44:05,140 S5: learn when my narcissistic father got cancer and my pastor 738 00:44:05,140 --> 00:44:08,859 S5: told me, you know, cancer doesn't cancel out the fact 739 00:44:08,860 --> 00:44:13,620 S5: that someone's abusive and irresponsible. So you still have to 740 00:44:13,660 --> 00:44:18,219 S5: set those boundaries, and you definitely have to emotionally detach 741 00:44:18,340 --> 00:44:20,540 S5: from him. And you're not doing anything wrong by pulling 742 00:44:20,540 --> 00:44:21,260 S5: back your care. 743 00:44:22,739 --> 00:44:24,740 S1: May that be an encouragement to you, because I'm sure 744 00:44:24,739 --> 00:44:27,380 S1: this has been an excruciating decision for you. Susan, thank 745 00:44:27,380 --> 00:44:30,500 S1: you so much for being with us. These hours fly by, 746 00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:32,859 S1: and as always, there are people whose questions we didn't 747 00:44:32,860 --> 00:44:35,460 S1: get to. Thank you, Laurel, for being a regular guest 748 00:44:35,460 --> 00:44:37,860 S1: and for pouring out your heart and your godly advice 749 00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:41,340 S1: on a regular basis to people with palpable hurts. Everybody 750 00:44:41,340 --> 00:44:43,660 S1: who's got ears on their head, but ears, especially on 751 00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:45,980 S1: their heart, can hear the pain from so many of 752 00:44:45,980 --> 00:44:48,660 S1: our callers. So just keep watching our website to know 753 00:44:48,660 --> 00:44:51,460 S1: when Laurel is back again, and we'll continue taking your questions. 754 00:44:51,460 --> 00:44:53,299 S1: Thank you so much for being with us, friends. We'll 755 00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:55,820 S1: see you next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.