1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,880 S1: Hey, thanks a lot for listening to this program, Chris 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,840 S1: Fabry live. I want to let you know that in 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,280 S1: the program, you're going to hear music that we've had 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:13,280 S1: to edit out for copyright reasons and restrictions. We cannot 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,440 S1: play those songs for you. So thank you for understanding. 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,440 S1: They're back. Those boys of the Bible, they put the 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,320 S1: chat in eschatology. They put the leg and legacy. That's right. 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,920 S1: Doctor Michael Rudnick and Doctor Michael Vanlandingham are going to 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,920 S1: pull up a chair to the radio backyard fence for 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,000 S1: a chat about the Bible and the Christian life. And 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,040 S1: you can ask a question or make a comment. Call early, 12 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:45,560 S1: call often (877) 548-3675. All of our information's at the website. 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,800 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. I'm looking forward to an invigorating conversation, 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,000 S1: and it's not going to be the same without you again, 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:59,200 S1: the number (877) 548-3675. Helping out behind the scenes today is 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:05,100 S1: Ryan who's power is back. Yes. Thank you. Northern Indiana power. Tricia, 17 00:01:05,100 --> 00:01:07,700 S1: or whatever they call it. Nipsco. I think Tricia is 18 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:10,259 S1: in the chair. Lisa is helping out. Josh will be 19 00:01:10,260 --> 00:01:12,980 S1: answering your calls now. Here they are, those Bible believing 20 00:01:13,020 --> 00:01:16,940 S1: twin sons of different testaments. That's the Friday. Saturday they 21 00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:19,460 S1: put the Sai and disciple the new and hermeneutics and 22 00:01:19,459 --> 00:01:24,140 S1: the Phil and Nephilim. I'm talking about open lines. Doctor 23 00:01:24,140 --> 00:01:27,819 S1: Michael Redlick, who is also professor emeritus of Jewish Studies 24 00:01:27,819 --> 00:01:30,140 S1: and Bible at Moody Bible Institute, and he's coeditor of 25 00:01:30,140 --> 00:01:32,580 S1: the Moody Bible Commentary, former pastor of biblical research at 26 00:01:32,580 --> 00:01:35,660 S1: Harvest Bible Chapel in Elgin, Illinois. Doctor Michael van Landingham, 27 00:01:35,660 --> 00:01:42,540 S1: the two Michaels. Yay! Hello. I got through that. How 28 00:01:42,540 --> 00:01:45,140 S1: did you like the Nephilim? I've been working on Phil 29 00:01:45,140 --> 00:01:48,740 S1: and Nephilim for a long time, but Ryan Ryan started 30 00:01:48,740 --> 00:01:51,780 S1: to play. It sounded like it was a Tinker Bell music. 31 00:01:51,820 --> 00:01:53,340 S1: It was a Friday. Yeah. 32 00:01:53,380 --> 00:01:56,940 S2: Friday side. That's right. Which sometime we've got to do 33 00:01:56,980 --> 00:02:00,400 S2: when we. Sometimes Mike and I, guest host for you. Chris. 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:01,360 S1: Do it on a Friday. 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,000 S2: We have to do it on a Friday. I've done 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,240 S2: the Friday. Sigh when I've stepped in for you, but 37 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,839 S2: Michael hasn't. So Mike, the next time we do that 38 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,400 S2: you have to do the Friday. Sigh. 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,200 S1: Well, and I'm going to write a parody of it 40 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,560 S1: just so that it's really goofy, you know, just just 41 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,080 S1: because that's what should be done. I think this is 42 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,720 S1: the first time we've ever snuck in. Just a taste 43 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,680 S1: of the Friday sigh on a Thursday. So thank you, 44 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,720 S1: Ryan for doing that. Now I've got something special. Ryan. 45 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,519 S1: Play the music. Here we go. Are you ready for this? 46 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,880 S1: We take you back now to August 1955. In that month, 47 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:42,040 S1: the Kelly-hopkinsville encounter occurred, which claimed that in Christian County, Kentucky, 48 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,320 S1: there was a verified alien and UFO encounter. Also, the 49 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,359 S1: first edition of the Guinness Book of Records was published 50 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,080 S1: in London. And is it any coincidence that on this 51 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:58,540 S1: date in 1955, Saturday, August 20th, a young bundle of 52 00:02:58,540 --> 00:03:02,859 S1: joy was birthed. Baby Van Landingham, who would grow up 53 00:03:02,860 --> 00:03:07,500 S1: and become one of the two Michaels. Happy birthday, baby 54 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:12,580 S1: Van Landingham. Thank you very much. My parents named me Michael. 55 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:15,060 S1: I just want you to know that. But thank you 56 00:03:15,060 --> 00:03:16,220 S1: very much. How much? 57 00:03:16,260 --> 00:03:18,900 S2: Everyone was named Michael in 1955. 58 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:20,940 S1: Michael, how much did you weigh when you were born? 59 00:03:21,100 --> 00:03:23,339 S3: I was, I think £8, four ounces. 60 00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:24,540 S1: How much do you weigh now? 61 00:03:25,820 --> 00:03:29,660 S3: I weigh £9. Four ounces. That's. I've grown. 62 00:03:29,860 --> 00:03:31,700 S1: Put on a little weight there. Do you think it's 63 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:33,739 S1: any coincidence that on the day after you were born, 64 00:03:33,740 --> 00:03:35,700 S1: there was a UFO and alien sighting? 65 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:40,420 S3: I'm sure there's a connection. I thought all my life 66 00:03:40,420 --> 00:03:43,020 S3: that I don't really belong here on the planet. So. 67 00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:46,740 S1: Yeah. Yeah, well, the carpenter's saying, you know, on the 68 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:48,980 S1: day you were born, the angels got together. So maybe 69 00:03:48,980 --> 00:03:51,900 S1: after the day you were born, the aliens did got together. 70 00:03:51,940 --> 00:03:52,260 S2: Yeah. 71 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:52,780 S1: There we go. 72 00:03:52,820 --> 00:03:54,660 S3: I that wouldn't surprise me a bit. 73 00:03:54,780 --> 00:03:58,200 S1: Okay. Serious question. We put the Syrian serious? Did they 74 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,880 S1: celebrate birthdays? I know they did in 1955. But did 75 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,680 S1: they celebrate birthdays in the first century or in the 76 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,560 S1: time of Abraham? Did Isaac get a birthday party? What 77 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,240 S1: do you think about that, either of you? 78 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,280 S2: I think it's an American invention. 79 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,120 S3: Yes. Yeah. In in the Greco-Roman world of more or 80 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,000 S3: less first century, when a young man turned 18, he 81 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,919 S3: had a big party, lots of his own friends and 82 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:31,919 S3: his especially his dad's friends. And oftentimes dad would hire 83 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,440 S3: a woman of ill repute to be with his son. 84 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,479 S3: That was actually quite common. But other birthdays other than, 85 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,320 S3: you know, the 18th one I don't I'm not sure of. 86 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,560 S1: Well, the bar mitzvah, you would have to know whether 87 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,320 S1: bat mitzvah. You'd have to know when the child was 88 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,360 S1: born in order to have that ceremony. Right, Michael? 89 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,510 S2: Yeah, but the bar mitzvah is medieval. It's not really 90 00:04:56,910 --> 00:04:57,910 S2: from first century. 91 00:04:57,950 --> 00:05:00,630 S1: It wasn't that okay? But because I looked it up 92 00:05:00,630 --> 00:05:04,390 S1: and the internet told me that the birthdays were celebrated 93 00:05:04,390 --> 00:05:09,790 S1: 3000 years in ancient Egypt, but it was mainly for 94 00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:12,710 S1: like the upper crust, you know, the pharaohs and such 95 00:05:12,750 --> 00:05:16,789 S1: that they would celebrate the birth of them. Um, so 96 00:05:17,550 --> 00:05:22,270 S1: that's an interesting question. Um, do you. But but Michael, 97 00:05:22,270 --> 00:05:24,109 S1: what are you going to do special for your birthday? 98 00:05:26,470 --> 00:05:30,150 S3: Uh, well, we're, we're just going to hang out tonight. Um, and, uh, 99 00:05:30,150 --> 00:05:33,710 S3: my wife's birthday is August 30th, ten days from now. 100 00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:36,349 S3: And so somewhere between 20th and 30th, we're going to 101 00:05:36,350 --> 00:05:38,950 S3: go out for dinner somewhere. I'm going to let her pick. 102 00:05:38,990 --> 00:05:41,510 S3: I don't know where it'll be, but it'll be good. 103 00:05:41,510 --> 00:05:42,310 S3: Whatever we do. 104 00:05:43,270 --> 00:05:45,990 S1: I like it. All right, so there's the two Michaels. 105 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:49,510 S1: I have a question from last month, uh, that said, 106 00:05:49,510 --> 00:05:52,350 S1: would you ask the Michaels this in August? So I'm 107 00:05:52,350 --> 00:05:55,130 S1: going to start with this. Um, recently some ladies and 108 00:05:55,130 --> 00:05:58,289 S1: I have been looking into praying the blood of Jesus. 109 00:05:58,690 --> 00:06:02,410 S1: One had heard from a member of our church. Pray 110 00:06:02,410 --> 00:06:04,450 S1: the blood of Jesus over a family at a recent 111 00:06:04,450 --> 00:06:07,730 S1: food drop. She said it made her feel uncomfortable. So 112 00:06:07,730 --> 00:06:10,450 S1: we found an article and it was on Gospel Gospel 113 00:06:10,450 --> 00:06:13,810 S1: Coalition about how the blood of Jesus saved us from 114 00:06:13,810 --> 00:06:16,690 S1: the wrath of God and praying his blood is focusing 115 00:06:16,690 --> 00:06:20,410 S1: on the blood and not Jesus. I want to know 116 00:06:20,410 --> 00:06:22,410 S1: what the Michaels think about this, and I would like 117 00:06:22,410 --> 00:06:24,529 S1: to share the article with our group when we come 118 00:06:24,529 --> 00:06:27,210 S1: together in August. So I don't know if Laura and 119 00:06:27,210 --> 00:06:29,490 S1: her group has already gotten together if we're catching this 120 00:06:29,529 --> 00:06:33,210 S1: in time, but praying the blood of Jesus. Michaels, what 121 00:06:33,210 --> 00:06:33,850 S1: do you say? 122 00:06:35,570 --> 00:06:37,690 S3: You know, I just I just did a search on 123 00:06:37,730 --> 00:06:40,969 S3: that phrase in Scripture just before we came on. And 124 00:06:40,970 --> 00:06:46,530 S3: there is nothing in Scripture resembling the phrase praying blood 125 00:06:46,529 --> 00:06:50,850 S3: of Jesus or something like that. Um, and, and so 126 00:06:50,850 --> 00:06:53,490 S3: it seems to me that we're, if we want to 127 00:06:53,490 --> 00:06:55,150 S3: do that, we can do that. That seems to me 128 00:06:55,190 --> 00:06:58,830 S3: we're free to do that. I'm not sure that it's 129 00:06:58,830 --> 00:07:02,470 S3: more efficacious to do that than just praying in the 130 00:07:02,470 --> 00:07:05,950 S3: name of Jesus. It's hard for me to see how 131 00:07:05,950 --> 00:07:08,990 S3: that would be any different. But yes, we're saved by 132 00:07:08,990 --> 00:07:13,710 S3: the blood of Jesus, and his power especially is is 133 00:07:14,030 --> 00:07:16,630 S3: seen in the shedding of his own blood. And then 134 00:07:16,630 --> 00:07:18,830 S3: we are blessed by that. But I'm not sure that 135 00:07:18,830 --> 00:07:21,470 S3: we have to pray in the blood of Jesus. I 136 00:07:21,470 --> 00:07:22,470 S3: don't know what that means. 137 00:07:22,510 --> 00:07:24,790 S2: I think it sort of makes the blood of Jesus 138 00:07:24,830 --> 00:07:30,830 S2: a magical thing, which, yes, that's that's what I'm uncomfortable with. Uh, 139 00:07:30,870 --> 00:07:33,870 S2: two things. One, when I first became a believer, there 140 00:07:33,870 --> 00:07:36,470 S2: were some people that thought I needed a particular spiritual gift. 141 00:07:36,750 --> 00:07:39,270 S2: And they prayed over me and prayed over me. And, 142 00:07:39,550 --> 00:07:43,550 S2: and it wasn't coming the gift. And so what they 143 00:07:43,550 --> 00:07:47,270 S2: did is they decided I was demonized and they were 144 00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:49,630 S2: going to cast out a demon and they'd be as 145 00:07:49,630 --> 00:07:53,850 S2: they were casting out the demon, allegedly for me. They 146 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:57,370 S2: were praying the blood of Jesus. And I think that's 147 00:07:57,370 --> 00:08:00,770 S2: where the idea comes from. Uh, you know, pleading the 148 00:08:00,770 --> 00:08:04,330 S2: blood of Jesus. And when they started thumping me on 149 00:08:04,330 --> 00:08:07,650 S2: the back and said I would, uh, they did say this. 150 00:08:07,650 --> 00:08:10,890 S2: They said we had just had late dinner and, and 151 00:08:10,930 --> 00:08:12,490 S2: then they were doing this and they were thumping me 152 00:08:12,490 --> 00:08:14,010 S2: on the back. And I said, why did you put 153 00:08:14,010 --> 00:08:15,650 S2: a brown paper bag in front of me? And they said, 154 00:08:15,650 --> 00:08:19,450 S2: you're going to vomit. When, when the demon comes out, 155 00:08:19,450 --> 00:08:21,130 S2: I said, I'm going to vomit because you're punching me 156 00:08:21,130 --> 00:08:23,850 S2: on the back. And I just ate. And that was 157 00:08:23,850 --> 00:08:25,770 S2: the end of that experience for me. I said, no, 158 00:08:25,770 --> 00:08:28,210 S2: I'm not going to pursue this. What I did think 159 00:08:28,250 --> 00:08:30,210 S2: to do is I'm going to see what the scriptures 160 00:08:30,210 --> 00:08:32,850 S2: have to say about all these issues. That's really one 161 00:08:32,850 --> 00:08:36,490 S2: of the motivating factors for me. And one of the 162 00:08:36,490 --> 00:08:42,130 S2: things I really discerned fairly early after that is that 163 00:08:42,130 --> 00:08:44,850 S2: when we pray, we pray to the father in the 164 00:08:44,850 --> 00:08:48,010 S2: name of the son, by the power of the Holy Spirit. 165 00:08:48,210 --> 00:08:51,810 S2: And that's all the Bible ever says about prayer for 166 00:08:51,950 --> 00:08:54,470 S2: believer today, and I think that's what I would encourage 167 00:08:54,470 --> 00:08:55,189 S2: people to do. 168 00:08:56,150 --> 00:08:59,110 S1: Those are the two Michaels, and they are yours. Today 169 00:08:59,110 --> 00:09:05,070 S1: at the Radio Backyard Fence. If you call us at eight, seven, 75483675. 170 00:09:05,230 --> 00:09:07,270 S1: Got some callers lined up. We're going to go right 171 00:09:07,270 --> 00:09:09,030 S1: to them and we'll try to get to as many 172 00:09:09,030 --> 00:09:12,590 S1: as we can in this hour. Say happy birthday to 173 00:09:12,630 --> 00:09:14,790 S1: Michael when you call in. Now of course do that 174 00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:32,430 S1: (877) 548-3675 more straight ahead on Moody Radio. The two Michaels 175 00:09:32,429 --> 00:09:34,589 S1: are in the house today at the radio Backyard fence. 176 00:09:34,590 --> 00:09:37,030 S1: We are taking your questions about the Bible, the Christian life, 177 00:09:37,030 --> 00:09:44,230 S1: whatever you would like to ask. (877) 548-3675. Our first caller 178 00:09:44,230 --> 00:09:48,510 S1: is Amanda. She lives in Tampa, Florida. Amanda, you are 179 00:09:48,510 --> 00:09:50,350 S1: on with the two Michaels. Go right ahead. 180 00:09:51,130 --> 00:09:53,530 S4: Oh, wonderful. I wanted to start off with a happy birthday. 181 00:09:53,970 --> 00:09:54,450 S1: Yay! 182 00:09:54,730 --> 00:09:56,569 S3: Thank you very much, I appreciate it. 183 00:09:56,850 --> 00:09:59,650 S4: So I have a seven year old daughter and she's 184 00:09:59,650 --> 00:10:02,730 S4: my little theologian. And she asked me just before bed 185 00:10:02,730 --> 00:10:04,490 S4: last night, and she caught me off guard. And we 186 00:10:04,490 --> 00:10:08,850 S4: were talking about John chapter 19, um, that Jesus gave 187 00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:12,290 S4: up his spirit. And, um, she said, so does that 188 00:10:12,290 --> 00:10:14,010 S4: mean Jesus killed himself? 189 00:10:16,809 --> 00:10:20,330 S3: Well, it was, it was not. No, he didn't he 190 00:10:20,330 --> 00:10:25,330 S3: didn't kill himself. However, um, to put it more, to 191 00:10:25,370 --> 00:10:29,130 S3: put it more theologically, he did give up his life. 192 00:10:29,330 --> 00:10:32,290 S3: He offered for us. Yeah. It was a sacrifice. He 193 00:10:32,290 --> 00:10:36,130 S3: took a step of sacrifice for us. It was not suicide. 194 00:10:36,130 --> 00:10:41,370 S3: It was a step of sacrifice whereby he surrendered his life, um, 195 00:10:41,370 --> 00:10:43,209 S3: on the cross for our sake. 196 00:10:43,809 --> 00:10:45,970 S2: And I think it's important. I mean, think of this 197 00:10:45,970 --> 00:10:51,230 S2: as a parent, Amanda, would you give your life to 198 00:10:51,309 --> 00:10:52,630 S2: save your your child? 199 00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:56,670 S4: Oh, absolutely. I just had my youngest just turned one 200 00:10:56,670 --> 00:10:57,589 S4: month old yesterday. 201 00:10:57,630 --> 00:11:02,390 S2: Yeah. So you know. Right. And, and I've seen I 202 00:11:02,390 --> 00:11:07,510 S2: was just thinking about the, um, someone asked me a 203 00:11:07,510 --> 00:11:12,630 S2: question and I was thinking about, uh, life is beautiful by, uh, 204 00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:15,270 S2: it was a movie about, I don't know, 25 years ago. 205 00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:18,190 S2: And it was a father who hid his child. It 206 00:11:18,190 --> 00:11:23,390 S2: was obviously fictional, but hid his child throughout the concentration camp. 207 00:11:23,390 --> 00:11:27,110 S2: And then ultimately, when the time came, he had to 208 00:11:27,150 --> 00:11:31,110 S2: sacrifice his life to save his child. Now he did 209 00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:34,150 S2: it willingly. No man took his life. He knew that 210 00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:37,030 S2: that that was going to happen. But it was the 211 00:11:37,070 --> 00:11:40,069 S2: Nazis who were responsible for putting him to death. But 212 00:11:40,070 --> 00:11:44,750 S2: he sacrificed himself to save his child. And. And he says, 213 00:11:44,750 --> 00:11:46,790 S2: this was my father's gift to me at the end 214 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:50,210 S2: of the movie. And I was thinking that that's what 215 00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:55,010 S2: we think is our Redeemer's gift to us. He took 216 00:11:55,010 --> 00:11:57,890 S2: the punishment we deserved. He took the sacrifice. He made 217 00:11:57,890 --> 00:12:00,810 S2: himself the sacrifice for us, just as you would. And 218 00:12:00,809 --> 00:12:05,090 S2: I would sacrifice our lives for our children. And that's 219 00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:06,610 S2: what what the Lord did. 220 00:12:06,929 --> 00:12:10,569 S5: So there's a difference between laying down your life for 221 00:12:10,570 --> 00:12:13,730 S5: your friends. Greater love has no one than this and 222 00:12:14,130 --> 00:12:17,290 S5: taking your own life. That's. Those are different. 223 00:12:17,370 --> 00:12:19,090 S1: Amanda, what do you think? Does that help? 224 00:12:20,010 --> 00:12:23,730 S4: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I, you know, told her that, you know, 225 00:12:23,770 --> 00:12:26,089 S4: Jesus was in control of all of it. Her, him 226 00:12:26,090 --> 00:12:28,610 S4: and God. Yeah, but I thought this was a perfect 227 00:12:28,610 --> 00:12:30,450 S4: time to be able to call in and ask. So 228 00:12:30,450 --> 00:12:31,370 S4: thank you very much. 229 00:12:31,450 --> 00:12:33,850 S2: You know, Amanda, I think we were just talking about 230 00:12:33,890 --> 00:12:38,730 S2: Eva teaching a class of children. I don't know, 35 231 00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:41,130 S2: years ago and a kind of a smarty kid there 232 00:12:41,130 --> 00:12:43,370 S2: in the class, ten year old boy said, so why 233 00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:48,880 S2: didn't Jesus just commit suicide? And And what what Eva 234 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,920 S2: said was because that would be wrong. 235 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,480 S1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 236 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,160 S2: Gotcha. That was interesting. 237 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,400 S1: I say to the seven year old girl, good on 238 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:06,800 S1: you for thinking this through and for having those honest questions. 239 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,199 S1: And good on you, Amanda, for hearing the question and 240 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,320 S1: not saying, well, no, no, don't say that. You can't 241 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,560 S1: think that way or whatever. You know, some people would 242 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,000 S1: squash that down. It's like, no, it made you think 243 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,720 S1: those questions make you think. Yeah. And so that's really good. Amanda, 244 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,440 S1: did you notice. 245 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,959 S2: Did you notice that it was Mike and I were 246 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:32,760 S2: answering theologically and, and Chris is like kind and thinks 247 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,239 S2: about how your daughter and isn't that I'm so embarrassed 248 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:37,880 S2: right now. 249 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,600 S1: So no, it all works together. Yeah. All three of us. 250 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,320 S1: God bless you. Amanda. Thank you for calling today. Uh, 251 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:52,059 S1: again (877) 548-3675. Carol in Illinois is on with the Michaels. Hi, Carol. 252 00:13:53,059 --> 00:13:54,020 S6: Happy birthday. 253 00:13:55,020 --> 00:13:56,339 S3: Thank you very much. 254 00:13:58,220 --> 00:13:58,620 S6: Hello. 255 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:02,220 S1: Hello. Yes, we are grateful for your birthday wishes. 256 00:14:02,460 --> 00:14:03,100 S3: Thank you. 257 00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:07,179 S6: Um, my Sunday school class is getting ready to do Deuteronomy, 258 00:14:07,179 --> 00:14:09,660 S6: and I was wondering. I'm pretty sure the guy has 259 00:14:09,660 --> 00:14:13,100 S6: taught it before. And he said that Deuteronomy is the 260 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:16,340 S6: second telling of the law. And I was wondering what 261 00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:17,300 S6: you think of it. 262 00:14:17,940 --> 00:14:21,860 S2: That's exactly what it is. It's it's the it's a 263 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,500 S2: retelling of the law, which is what Deuteronomy is second, 264 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:29,420 S2: and Nomos is law, second law. And it's sort of 265 00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:35,020 S2: a recounting. The way it's structured is that, uh, it's 266 00:14:35,020 --> 00:14:39,500 S2: kind of hard for me to read Deuteronomy separately from 267 00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:42,380 S2: the rest of the Pentateuch, from the Torah, because it's 268 00:14:42,380 --> 00:14:45,060 S2: one book when if you went to a synagogue and 269 00:14:45,060 --> 00:14:47,000 S2: they pick up the Torah scroll. They don't pick up 270 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,760 S2: five little books. They pick up one Torah scroll. And 271 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,600 S2: it's it's sort of like the Lord of the rings. Remember, 272 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,200 S2: if you've ever read that, it's, it's three volumes, but 273 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,880 S2: it's one story the same way. It's one story with 274 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:04,240 S2: laws dropped in. That is the Pentateuch or the Torah. 275 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,360 S2: And Deuteronomy is volume five. And it, it has a 276 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,480 S2: it's basically the second telling of the Torah of the law, 277 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,920 S2: but it's an exposition of it, sort of a clarifying 278 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,400 S2: of it. And so it's three sermons by Moses, and 279 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,720 S2: then you have the conclusion to the whole Torah. That's 280 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,560 S2: that's the structure of it. And it's to teach Israel 281 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,160 S2: to trust and obey God. It's a marvelous book, Deuteronomy, 282 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,760 S2: and it really has some important theological truths in it. 283 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,680 S2: So I'm glad you're going to study it. That's great. 284 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:36,600 S1: Does that help? Carol. 285 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,560 S6: Could you tell me what the Hebrew meaning of Devarim is, 286 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,900 S6: of what isn't the Hebrew name for Deuteronomy. 287 00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:51,380 S2: Devarim Devarim Devarim. Uh uh uh uh. It's the first word. 288 00:15:51,420 --> 00:15:52,860 S2: These words. It means words. 289 00:15:53,340 --> 00:15:54,060 S6: I thought so, okay. 290 00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:54,500 S2: Yeah. 291 00:15:55,380 --> 00:15:56,820 S6: That's extremely helpful. 292 00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:57,500 S2: Okay. 293 00:15:57,540 --> 00:15:59,540 S1: Thank you. Mike V, did you know that already? 294 00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:02,580 S3: Uh, yeah, I did. Yeah. Okay. 295 00:16:02,620 --> 00:16:04,460 S1: Yeah. And how much? How much did you weigh when 296 00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:05,060 S1: you were born? 297 00:16:06,140 --> 00:16:06,860 S2: £9. 298 00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:08,820 S3: More than you, Chris. 299 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:11,980 S1: More than hammer. Yeah. Okay. Carol. God bless you, friend. 300 00:16:11,980 --> 00:16:15,420 S1: Thank you for calling today. Ellie is also in Illinois. Ellie, 301 00:16:15,460 --> 00:16:16,619 S1: you're on with the Michaels. 302 00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:22,780 S7: Hello. I'm. Happy birthday. Michael. And to Michael Riedel. Nick, 303 00:16:22,820 --> 00:16:26,780 S7: I want to say hello. Michael. Ellie Whalen here. So. 304 00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:30,500 S2: Oh. Hi there. Wow, what a surprise. Oh. 305 00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:33,460 S7: Michael, I don't know. Can we do this off the air? 306 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:35,940 S7: Can we exchange numbers? And I want to have you 307 00:16:35,940 --> 00:16:36,380 S7: over for. 308 00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:38,740 S1: I want you to do it on the air. Just 309 00:16:38,740 --> 00:16:40,739 S1: give your number afterwards. 310 00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:44,920 S2: Leave your number for. For Tricia. After. After the call. Okay. 311 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,240 S2: And I'll get I'll get in touch. 312 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,040 S7: To connect with you that way. So. 313 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,840 S1: Uh, does he not know your money? Does he? Ellie? 314 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,200 S2: Yeah. That's why she's looking for me. 315 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:53,920 S1: They've been looking. 316 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,120 S2: He moved to Michigan. We're gonna find him. 317 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,640 S1: Or maybe you're looking for the auto. What's that thing 318 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,480 S1: they call? We're looking for extended warranty. She wants to 319 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:03,920 S1: sell you. 320 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,920 S7: Well, we go back a very long time, Michael, don't we? So. 321 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,640 S2: Yep, we sure do. It's great. Great to hear from you. 322 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,800 S7: And thank you. It's so good to talk to you. 323 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,159 S7: So my question and I'm a I'm a little confused. 324 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,239 S7: I have such a sanctification, wonderful process that's happened in 325 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,040 S7: my life. But I get a little sticky on this question, 326 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,120 S7: which is, do we go immediately to heaven when we 327 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,679 S7: pass or do we stay in a, in a place? 328 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,760 S7: And I'm not talking, you know, like purgatory or something 329 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,960 S7: like that? No. But is are we in the full 330 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:46,540 S7: of heaven? And, uh, for eternity. Um, when we, when 331 00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:51,900 S7: we die immediately upon our death. Great question. 332 00:17:52,420 --> 00:17:55,500 S3: Yes, we go straight into the presence of God. Um, 333 00:17:55,619 --> 00:17:58,740 S3: and I think probably the strongest verse on this that 334 00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:03,340 S3: I can think of is, um, in, in Philippians chapter one, 335 00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:08,740 S3: verse 21 says for me to live, uh, for me 336 00:18:08,740 --> 00:18:12,219 S3: to live is Christ and to die is gain. Now 337 00:18:12,220 --> 00:18:14,060 S3: if we do soul sleep or something like that, there's 338 00:18:14,060 --> 00:18:18,020 S3: nothing gained. Um, and so, and then he says in 339 00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:21,820 S3: verse 23, I am hard pressed from both directions, having 340 00:18:21,820 --> 00:18:25,100 S3: the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that 341 00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:27,739 S3: is very much better. Uh, yet to remain on the 342 00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:30,820 S3: flesh is more necessary for your sake. It's very interesting. 343 00:18:30,859 --> 00:18:35,020 S3: There's a really great little grammatical construction with two depart 344 00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:38,300 S3: and be it sort of looks at two sides of 345 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:43,000 S3: a singular coin. And when we are departed from this life. 346 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:48,400 S3: We are with Christ. It's all. It's all together. To 347 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,399 S3: depart is to be with him. And so it's an 348 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,880 S3: immediate thing. We go into his presence and enjoy him 349 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:54,800 S3: forever and ever. 350 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:00,000 S2: Now, the reason people get confused is in first Thessalonians 413. 351 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,080 S2: It uses the word asleep, talking about people who have died. 352 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,359 S2: And it uses that phrase, I think four times in 353 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,919 S2: that word falling asleep. Uh, and, and it's referring to 354 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,560 S2: the dead in Christ. And this is to give them 355 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,240 S2: hope of the resurrection. And what it's saying is when 356 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:23,320 S2: the rapture, when the great swoosh happens, when, uh, we're 357 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:24,480 S2: snatched by the Lord. 358 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:25,760 S1: I've never heard it called that. 359 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,160 S2: Yeah, it's a swoosh. 360 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:27,720 S1: Yeah. 361 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:33,280 S2: So when that happens, uh, the dead in Christ rise first. 362 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,159 S2: And that's what the euphemism is referring to of being asleep. 363 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,520 S2: But were they asleep? If you look at the passage itself, 364 00:19:40,859 --> 00:19:43,859 S2: This is what it says. Since we believe this is 365 00:19:43,859 --> 00:19:47,860 S2: verse 14, first Thessalonians 414. Since we believe that Jesus 366 00:19:47,859 --> 00:19:51,060 S2: died and rose again. In the same way, God will 367 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:56,300 S2: bring with him those who have fallen asleep. So they're 368 00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:59,780 S2: already with him. And when the Lord Jesus descends, those 369 00:19:59,780 --> 00:20:03,820 S2: who are with him will descend with him. And referring 370 00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:06,180 S2: to those who have fallen asleep through Jesus, and then 371 00:20:06,220 --> 00:20:09,859 S2: their physical bodies will be resurrected, and the dead in 372 00:20:09,859 --> 00:20:13,740 S2: Christ will rise first. And their immaterial part, that spiritual 373 00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:16,620 S2: part of the person that descends with him will reunite 374 00:20:16,619 --> 00:20:20,180 S2: with the physical part that's now been resurrected, and they 375 00:20:20,180 --> 00:20:22,700 S2: will be together. And that's what our ultimate hope is 376 00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:26,660 S2: for eternity, to be in a glorified body forever with 377 00:20:26,660 --> 00:20:27,220 S2: the Lord. 378 00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:29,340 S1: Ellie, what do you think? 379 00:20:30,340 --> 00:20:34,980 S7: Okay, I'm. I'm processing it. It is something that's, you know, the, uh, 380 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:39,260 S7: as you say, the to sleep part, uh, and the 381 00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:43,490 S7: different heavens. You know, I read about the different. 382 00:20:44,050 --> 00:20:46,410 S2: l-I just don't don't be confused by the word asleep. 383 00:20:46,410 --> 00:20:50,530 S2: It's just a euphemism for dead. That's okay. That's all 384 00:20:50,530 --> 00:20:53,210 S2: it is. It's just a euphemism for physical death. My 385 00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:56,050 S2: my granddaughter the other day was asking us about our dogs, 386 00:20:56,050 --> 00:21:02,690 S2: and she said, when these dogs. Then she said, you know, uh, 387 00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:06,409 S2: will you get another dog? And and she was using, 388 00:21:06,410 --> 00:21:10,370 S2: you know, as a euphemism for death. Well, that's what 389 00:21:10,369 --> 00:21:13,490 S2: Paul does. He just uses the word asleep there for death. 390 00:21:14,290 --> 00:21:18,010 S3: Okay. Michael. I think the idea is, is that the 391 00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:21,609 S3: body has the appearance of sleep. And sleep is also 392 00:21:21,609 --> 00:21:24,210 S3: really good because when we sleep, we wake up. And 393 00:21:24,210 --> 00:21:26,450 S3: so if you take a nap, it's a temporary thing. 394 00:21:26,450 --> 00:21:31,850 S3: And so the body is inanimate, um, following death, but 395 00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:36,010 S3: that's temporary for the Christian, for the body to wake up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 396 00:21:36,010 --> 00:21:38,530 S3: The body will wake up. The soul goes right into 397 00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:41,669 S3: the presence of the Lord immediately, and is conscious of 398 00:21:41,670 --> 00:21:43,510 S3: him and enjoys him immediately. 399 00:21:43,790 --> 00:21:46,590 S2: That's why Ellie, in second Corinthians five it says, absent 400 00:21:46,590 --> 00:21:50,470 S2: from the body is present with the Lord. That's what 401 00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:54,030 S2: happens when when the real Ellie, the real Michael, the 402 00:21:54,030 --> 00:21:59,310 S2: real Chris. Uh, when we leave this body, the real 403 00:21:59,310 --> 00:22:01,790 S2: person goes to be with the Lord. 404 00:22:02,869 --> 00:22:05,669 S1: Okay, Ellie, one more time. Are you processing that, too? 405 00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:10,869 S7: Yes. In the spiritual aspect of this. So we I mean, 406 00:22:10,910 --> 00:22:14,710 S7: are we kind of being I, I don't I, for 407 00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:17,190 S7: lack of a better word, kind of ghost like in 408 00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:21,310 S7: heaven until we have a another body. It's is there 409 00:22:21,310 --> 00:22:27,110 S7: anything in Scripture that tells us what that is there? 410 00:22:27,230 --> 00:22:31,070 S3: It is interesting. In the book of revelation, it talks 411 00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:34,270 S3: about the souls of those who have been martyred for 412 00:22:34,270 --> 00:22:39,210 S3: their faith in Christ. Um, being under the altar. And 413 00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:43,090 S3: so there's, there's, there's, and the Bible doesn't say very 414 00:22:43,090 --> 00:22:44,890 S3: much about this. And so it's very hard to be 415 00:22:44,890 --> 00:22:49,010 S3: very detailed. It seems that we have some sort of 416 00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:54,410 S3: a soul like body in heaven that's identifiable. That's, that 417 00:22:54,410 --> 00:22:58,250 S3: can be places that will be some place. Uh, and 418 00:22:58,250 --> 00:23:01,890 S3: yet that's not, that's the intermediate state. That's what theologians 419 00:23:01,890 --> 00:23:04,970 S3: call that. That's the intermediate state. We don't know much 420 00:23:04,970 --> 00:23:08,889 S3: about that state because the ultimate goal for us is 421 00:23:08,890 --> 00:23:12,170 S3: not the immortality of the soul. That's a Greek concept. 422 00:23:12,170 --> 00:23:15,810 S3: It's the immortality of the entire person, body and soul. 423 00:23:16,170 --> 00:23:19,450 S3: And so, uh, so there's not much about the intermediate state, 424 00:23:19,450 --> 00:23:21,330 S3: but I think that there's some sense in which we 425 00:23:21,369 --> 00:23:25,649 S3: are identifiable. We, we have, uh, probably take up, I 426 00:23:25,770 --> 00:23:28,890 S3: don't know what it places there in heaven. 427 00:23:29,410 --> 00:23:31,890 S2: In second Corinthians. So I had a theology teacher once 428 00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:35,170 S2: that argued from second Corinthians five that we get intermediate 429 00:23:35,210 --> 00:23:39,350 S2: temporary bodies till the resurrection. I don't know if that's true, 430 00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:41,990 S2: but I've heard that argument made. 431 00:23:43,310 --> 00:23:46,949 S1: Ellie. Thank you. And, uh, hang on. Tricia will get 432 00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:50,750 S1: your phone number and bank account information. Yeah. That's right. 433 00:23:50,790 --> 00:23:51,750 S2: The bank account information. 434 00:23:51,950 --> 00:23:55,230 S1: Is most important. Okay, so the logical question. We don't 435 00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:58,310 S1: have time for another question. The logical question then is 436 00:23:58,310 --> 00:24:00,790 S1: if absent from the body is present with the Lord. 437 00:24:00,790 --> 00:24:05,070 S1: What about those who don't know Jesus when they are 438 00:24:05,070 --> 00:24:09,230 S1: absent from the body? Yes. 439 00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:15,390 S2: Yeah. The the example we have is in Luke 16 440 00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:17,869 S2: with the parable. I know it's a parable, but a 441 00:24:17,869 --> 00:24:21,830 S2: parable is a true to life story. And so it's 442 00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:26,470 S2: based on reality. And in that the the rich man 443 00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:31,629 S2: is he dies, and yet he's still aware of what's 444 00:24:31,630 --> 00:24:36,449 S2: going on. And he can see Lazarus being comforted and 445 00:24:36,450 --> 00:24:40,810 S2: so I. By Father Abraham. And so it does appear that. 446 00:24:41,410 --> 00:24:44,130 S2: And he's in a place of suffering while he awaits 447 00:24:44,170 --> 00:24:47,649 S2: ultimate judgment. And so it does appear that people who 448 00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:51,290 S2: don't know the Lord Jesus are separated from God immediately 449 00:24:51,290 --> 00:24:53,609 S2: and and are not in a good place. 450 00:24:54,210 --> 00:24:57,770 S1: But the judgment hasn't happened. And the wrath of God 451 00:24:57,770 --> 00:25:00,450 S1: has not been assuaged at that point. 452 00:25:00,490 --> 00:25:01,770 S2: They're like in a holding cell. 453 00:25:01,930 --> 00:25:02,290 S1: Yeah. 454 00:25:02,690 --> 00:25:06,810 S3: I, I, I would liken it to, uh, following death, 455 00:25:06,810 --> 00:25:09,889 S3: the intermediate state for an unbeliever is not going to 456 00:25:09,890 --> 00:25:12,970 S3: be pleasant. It'll be horrible, but it's like being in 457 00:25:12,970 --> 00:25:17,410 S3: the county jail as over against when in the final judgment. 458 00:25:17,410 --> 00:25:20,609 S3: And those who rejected Christ and don't know Christ are 459 00:25:20,609 --> 00:25:24,330 S3: cast into the lake of fire along with Satan. Um, 460 00:25:24,369 --> 00:25:27,810 S3: that's like being in federal prison. So there is, there 461 00:25:27,850 --> 00:25:30,449 S3: is some sort of a distinction there, but none of 462 00:25:30,450 --> 00:25:31,130 S3: it's good. 463 00:25:31,810 --> 00:25:35,310 S1: Not good. And, and there are some who will say, 464 00:25:35,790 --> 00:25:39,669 S1: I do not believe in a God that would eternally 465 00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:43,390 S1: separate people from himself. You know, I don't believe in 466 00:25:43,390 --> 00:25:46,590 S1: this hell thing that you guys. I believe in heaven. 467 00:25:46,790 --> 00:25:50,030 S1: So that's one of those questions that we've got to say. 468 00:25:50,150 --> 00:25:52,950 S1: It's not how I feel. It's what does the Bible teach? 469 00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:54,710 S1: And that's why I have the two Michaels on here. 470 00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:57,910 S1: Doctor Michael, doctor Michael Van Landingham. Find out more about 471 00:25:57,910 --> 00:26:01,710 S1: them at the website kris.org. We're going to have three 472 00:26:01,750 --> 00:26:04,870 S1: Michaels in the next segment. Oh boy. Howdy. It's going 473 00:26:04,869 --> 00:26:08,550 S1: to be a party. Continue straight ahead on Moody Radio. 474 00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:21,629 S8: This is Chris Fabry. 475 00:26:21,630 --> 00:26:23,790 S1: Live on Moody Radio. Thanks a lot for joining us today. 476 00:26:23,790 --> 00:26:26,390 S1: Thank you. For those of you who supported the program, 477 00:26:26,550 --> 00:26:29,470 S1: we get to have conversations with the two Michaels because 478 00:26:29,470 --> 00:26:33,070 S1: of your participation with us. And if you give a 479 00:26:33,109 --> 00:26:36,650 S1: gift this month, maybe if you become a back fence partner. 480 00:26:36,650 --> 00:26:40,369 S1: I sent out a video today. Uh, our good friend 481 00:26:40,369 --> 00:26:43,609 S1: Colin Lambert passed away, and I sent out a tribute 482 00:26:43,609 --> 00:26:45,690 S1: to him and kind of pulled back the curtain until 483 00:26:45,930 --> 00:26:49,090 S1: a couple of stories of behind the scenes with Colin. 484 00:26:49,090 --> 00:26:51,290 S1: So if you're a back fence partner, open that video up. 485 00:26:51,290 --> 00:26:53,850 S1: If you'd like to see it, give a gift each 486 00:26:53,890 --> 00:26:56,050 S1: month and you get my video that I send out 487 00:26:56,050 --> 00:27:00,969 S1: every Thursday right now, Doctor Cathy Cook's book, Resolve, Conflict 488 00:27:00,970 --> 00:27:04,330 S1: and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children is our 489 00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:06,810 S1: thank you. If you give a gift of any size 490 00:27:06,810 --> 00:27:09,130 S1: or you become partner with us, just go to Chris 491 00:27:09,170 --> 00:27:12,450 S1: Fabry live.org. I chose this this month. I was talking 492 00:27:12,450 --> 00:27:16,450 S1: with Doctor Chapman yesterday, Gary Chapman yesterday about this and 493 00:27:16,450 --> 00:27:20,170 S1: how this is ubiquitous in the culture. There are so 494 00:27:20,170 --> 00:27:23,450 S1: many adult children who are saying to their parents, don't 495 00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:25,290 S1: want anything to do with you, or there's some kind 496 00:27:25,290 --> 00:27:29,490 S1: of fracture or fissure in that relationship. And this is 497 00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:35,870 S1: a very practical, hopeful book for the parent to say. 498 00:27:36,150 --> 00:27:39,389 S1: Here are some ideas of steps that you can take 499 00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:43,109 S1: even if you have been pushed aside. So let me 500 00:27:43,109 --> 00:27:44,550 S1: send you a copy of that. Give a Gift of 501 00:27:44,550 --> 00:27:49,709 S1: Any Size at Chris Fabry live.org. Chris Fabry live.org. Or 502 00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:52,830 S1: you can call 86695. Fabry. We'd love to send you 503 00:27:52,830 --> 00:27:58,910 S1: a copy of that (866) 953-2279. With the two Michaels, Doctor 504 00:27:58,910 --> 00:28:03,390 S1: Michael Rudnick and Doctor Michael Vanlandingham. Here is Mike Michael 505 00:28:03,630 --> 00:28:05,590 S1: in Illinois. Hi Mike. Go right ahead. 506 00:28:06,750 --> 00:28:10,790 S9: Good afternoon gentlemen. It's good to speak to you again. Um, 507 00:28:11,070 --> 00:28:14,630 S9: my question has to do with kings. Uh, we're all 508 00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:17,790 S9: familiar with people going up to Samuel, I think in 509 00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:22,990 S9: first Samuel eight saying we want a king and being completely. 510 00:28:23,030 --> 00:28:25,070 S9: I don't want to say I don't want to say rebuke, 511 00:28:25,070 --> 00:28:27,350 S9: but clearly Samuel said, this is not the will of 512 00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:33,540 S9: the Lord. However, in Deuteronomy, notice is given about kings 513 00:28:33,540 --> 00:28:36,500 S9: and how they are to operate. And so I don't 514 00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:38,540 S9: want to call this a contradiction in the word, but 515 00:28:38,540 --> 00:28:41,380 S9: if all you had was Deuteronomy, you wouldn't get the 516 00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:44,780 S9: impression that God looked upon Israel having a king being 517 00:28:44,860 --> 00:28:49,460 S9: a negative thing. And yet in first Samuel eight it 518 00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:53,500 S9: is looked upon as negative, perhaps because they wanted a 519 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:57,180 S9: king like Canaanites had. I could see that being scolded 520 00:28:57,180 --> 00:29:01,020 S9: by God. So I appreciate your comments about this issue. 521 00:29:01,540 --> 00:29:05,980 S2: Yes, the Deuteronomy 17 says you are to appoint the King. 522 00:29:06,020 --> 00:29:13,500 S2: The Lord your God chooses. And that's the expectation. So yes, 523 00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:17,700 S2: you're 100% right that Deuteronomy promised that there would be 524 00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:20,459 S2: a king. However, what happens when you come to First Samuel? 525 00:29:20,860 --> 00:29:24,060 S2: It's not that they were wrong in wanting a king. 526 00:29:24,180 --> 00:29:26,780 S2: It's just they wanted the king at the wrong time. 527 00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:30,640 S2: Apparently some people, some scholars even believe that the king 528 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,960 S2: that's being spoken of in Deuteronomy 17 is not just 529 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,240 S2: any king, it's talking about David. And so that's why 530 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,520 S2: David is called the man after God's own heart. Not 531 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,560 S2: only that, David had a heart for God, but the 532 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,320 S2: man after God's choosing, that he was the one that 533 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,680 S2: God always intended for them to have. And yet they 534 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,920 S2: were asking out of sequence, out of time, inappropriately rejecting 535 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,880 S2: God as their king up until the time that he 536 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,800 S2: chose his subregion. And. And so he gave them Saul. 537 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,840 S2: But that really sets up in the story of Samuel 538 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,520 S2: the Foil, because you have Saul as the failing king 539 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,920 S2: and David as the true chosen king, the one that 540 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,800 S2: was always intended to be king. And that's what I 541 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,640 S2: think happens there. And then the Davidic line becomes the 542 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,560 S2: line from whom the Messiah is going to come, the 543 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,720 S2: Davidic covenant. Doctor V. 544 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,400 S3: I mean, not much to add there. It is interesting 545 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,680 S3: that that, um, a good part of first second Samuel um, 546 00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:32,060 S3: Really does deal with why David ought to be king 547 00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:37,140 S3: and not Saul. David was willing to fight Goliath, you know, 548 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:41,940 S3: and Saul was not. And yet, according to Psalm for 549 00:30:41,940 --> 00:30:44,220 S3: Samuel chapter eight, they wanted a king to lead them 550 00:30:44,220 --> 00:30:46,860 S3: in battle. And yet Saul refused to do so. So 551 00:30:48,260 --> 00:30:51,420 S3: David was the right one, um, to, to actually fill 552 00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:55,219 S3: that role. And I think, as I said already for Samuel, 553 00:30:55,260 --> 00:30:58,140 S3: a good part of that is to give justification for it. 554 00:30:58,180 --> 00:31:01,380 S2: Yeah. You know, one of my favorite things, if you read, uh, 555 00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:05,820 S2: first Samuel 151617, a lot of people, I think, misunderstand 556 00:31:05,820 --> 00:31:09,460 S2: the David and Goliath story, particularly when it's applied or preached. 557 00:31:09,620 --> 00:31:12,060 S2: It's about how to overcome the giants in your life. 558 00:31:12,740 --> 00:31:15,700 S2: And then in chapter 15, actually what you have is 559 00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:21,380 S2: Saul failing as king. Remember doing what God didn't want. 560 00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:27,060 S2: Offering sacrifice. Chapter 16. David's anointed. And remember. No, he's 561 00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:31,280 S2: like Samuel's looking at the brothers and then it says, 562 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,400 S2: that man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks 563 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,720 S2: at the heart. And then you say, well, what is it? 564 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,200 S2: What did God see in David's heart? Well, then, read 565 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,360 S2: the next chapter. Chapter 17 who is this Philistine that 566 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,680 S2: he should taunt the armies of the living God? He's 567 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,280 S2: concerned for David's the chosen king. He's got the right 568 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,440 S2: heart because he's concerned for God's honor. And I think 569 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,120 S2: the question when we apply it is, who's the person 570 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,240 S2: that God's going to use? The person that puts puts 571 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,360 S2: God's honor above their own safety and security and, and 572 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,440 S2: honoring him more than anything else. And that's why David's 573 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:08,719 S2: a man after God's own heart. 574 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,040 S1: Micah, is a great question. You broke protocol, though. You 575 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,760 S1: didn't say happy birthday to Doctor Vanlandingham. Do you say that? 576 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,280 S9: No. I'm Michael, happy birthday. I myself was born in 1955. 577 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:22,080 S10: Yay! 578 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,640 S1: Wow. And how much did you weigh, Mike? 579 00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:30,660 S2: You guys are really old. That's all I can say. 580 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:33,980 S11: Yeah, I can give you my present weight better than 581 00:32:34,340 --> 00:32:35,260 S11: my baby weight. 582 00:32:35,580 --> 00:32:39,660 S1: Okay. No, that's all right. There's. There's grace here. God 583 00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:41,460 S1: bless you, Mike. Thanks for your call. That's a really 584 00:32:41,460 --> 00:32:44,660 S1: good question. You know, that's that's thinking. And it makes 585 00:32:44,660 --> 00:32:47,700 S1: you think if you dig into the Bible and go 586 00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:50,940 S1: long enough. It's like, okay, I believe that, believe that, 587 00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:53,260 S1: believe that. Yeah. But what about this? And that's why 588 00:32:53,260 --> 00:32:55,900 S1: I have the two Michaels on, uh, to have to 589 00:32:55,940 --> 00:32:58,700 S1: talk with somebody named Bill. Hi, Bill. Go right ahead. 590 00:32:58,740 --> 00:33:02,380 S12: Oh. How are you guys? I want you guys to know, um, that, 591 00:33:02,380 --> 00:33:04,340 S12: I think is the answer to prayer that I'm able 592 00:33:04,340 --> 00:33:06,140 S12: to call in today, because this has been heavy on 593 00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:08,380 S12: my mind the last couple of weeks. And let me 594 00:33:08,380 --> 00:33:12,100 S12: preface by saying born again believer for more than 40 years. Um, 595 00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:15,860 S12: but as my children get older and I recognize that 596 00:33:15,860 --> 00:33:19,540 S12: they're not living for the Lord, I suppose it's I'm 597 00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:21,140 S12: going to tell you how I think and maybe you 598 00:33:21,140 --> 00:33:23,900 S12: can tell me biblically why I shouldn't think this way. 599 00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:26,680 S12: And I've been asking friends, like, how do you spend 600 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,320 S12: eternity in heaven? Where the Bible says there's no more tears. 601 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,000 S12: And I might even get choked up just talking about it. Yeah. And, 602 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,200 S12: and the Bible tells us that we are going to 603 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,760 S12: recognize people in heaven that we've known down here on earth. 604 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,200 S12: And I say this, that God is going to have 605 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:49,520 S12: to brainwash me to if my children or my family 606 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,360 S12: members aren't there. This is it's a wrong term, I'm sure, 607 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,120 S12: but I'm like, God's going to have to brainwash me 608 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,040 S12: because how do I live an eternity where there's no 609 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,640 S12: more tears and my kids aren't there with me? 610 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:09,000 S3: First of all, Bill, I you have my deepest, deepest sympathy. Um, 611 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,360 S3: I'm I'm praised. Jesus. I have two born again, very 612 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:19,120 S3: actively serving Jesus kids and their spouses. And so I 613 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,520 S3: can only imagine the anguish that you feel. I think 614 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,660 S3: I'm not I can't recall that for sure. It says 615 00:34:25,660 --> 00:34:28,580 S3: there are no more tears in heaven, but I do know. 616 00:34:28,620 --> 00:34:28,819 S11: That. 617 00:34:29,140 --> 00:34:29,379 S1: Every. 618 00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:32,419 S3: Tear. Yeah. Revelation 21, verse four. It says he will 619 00:34:32,420 --> 00:34:35,580 S3: wipe away every tear from their eyes. Um, and so 620 00:34:35,620 --> 00:34:37,540 S3: I think that we might get to heaven and we 621 00:34:37,540 --> 00:34:41,980 S3: might be crying because of maybe we see our own shortcomings. 622 00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:45,980 S3: Maybe we, we, we don't see people in heaven that 623 00:34:45,980 --> 00:34:49,660 S3: we really wish were there. I think God will comfort us. 624 00:34:49,860 --> 00:34:51,660 S3: I don't know that we're going to be sobbing and 625 00:34:51,660 --> 00:34:56,860 S3: weeping for an eternity, but, um. But it will require 626 00:34:56,900 --> 00:35:02,060 S3: God saving our hearts and our emotions and helping us 627 00:35:02,060 --> 00:35:05,219 S3: at those times. And so he will, he will do that. Um, 628 00:35:05,219 --> 00:35:09,700 S3: and I, my guess is you will not feel that anguish, uh, 629 00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:12,820 S3: at that sort of depth and to that degree forever 630 00:35:12,860 --> 00:35:16,740 S3: because God is pretty good at comforting. But anyway, Bill, um, 631 00:35:16,780 --> 00:35:20,740 S3: you have my, you have my sympathies. You really do. Well, Michael. 632 00:35:21,060 --> 00:35:23,060 S2: I, as I look at that, it says he will 633 00:35:23,060 --> 00:35:25,480 S2: wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will no 634 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:31,880 S2: longer exist. Grief, crying, pain will exist no longer because 635 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,000 S2: the previous things have passed away. And so I see 636 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,279 S2: the new creation. When we are resurrected and we're in 637 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,200 S2: the new creation, the new heavens and new earth, that 638 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,239 S2: it's not going to be some divine neuralizer like in 639 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,880 S2: Men in Black that would be in front of our 640 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,480 S2: heads where the, uh, where we won't remember. I don't 641 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,239 S2: think that's the case, but it will be some sort 642 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:02,400 S2: of divine painkiller, a comfort that will keep that sorrow somehow. 643 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,120 S2: I think it's going to be supernatural. God will bring 644 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,640 S2: us comfort. Uh, and and the only thing I can 645 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,240 S2: compare it to is I had surgery about three years 646 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,000 S2: ago and then had to go back to the, the 647 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,600 S2: hospital for something. And Eva was driving me and I said, 648 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,870 S2: are you trying to hit every pothole? You know, I 649 00:36:23,870 --> 00:36:25,550 S2: think you missed one there. You know. 650 00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:27,670 S1: I can see you saying that. 651 00:36:27,710 --> 00:36:31,029 S2: Yeah, we were laughing about that. But then they give 652 00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:34,069 S2: you this painkiller and, you know, you had the surgery 653 00:36:34,070 --> 00:36:37,509 S2: and it hurts, but it doesn't hurt then. And you think, 654 00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:40,790 S2: how come it doesn't hurt? I'm alert. I'm alive. I'm awake, 655 00:36:41,150 --> 00:36:43,910 S2: and it doesn't hurt. Well, I think there's going to 656 00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:48,989 S2: be a spiritual painkiller that God will apply supernaturally in 657 00:36:48,989 --> 00:36:53,790 S2: our new creation. It's it's, it's what he promises us. 658 00:36:53,790 --> 00:36:55,149 S2: And I'm trusting him for it. 659 00:36:55,469 --> 00:36:55,950 S3: Yeah. 660 00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:59,029 S1: I don't know if I'm buying the painkiller thing because 661 00:36:59,030 --> 00:37:03,390 S1: it's almost, it almost feels like then I'm not really 662 00:37:03,390 --> 00:37:07,910 S1: experiencing truth, you know, that this has had what Bill 663 00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:09,109 S1: is describing has happened. 664 00:37:09,150 --> 00:37:10,870 S2: Well, no, I think we'll know the truth. I think 665 00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:12,910 S2: what we'll have to do is here's I think what 666 00:37:12,910 --> 00:37:16,069 S2: will happen, this is the way it works is C.S. 667 00:37:16,070 --> 00:37:19,509 S2: Lewis used to say, in this life, we can say, 668 00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:22,149 S2: thy will be done. And in the next life God 669 00:37:22,210 --> 00:37:25,810 S2: will say to us, thy will be done. And I 670 00:37:25,850 --> 00:37:28,610 S2: think that when we are in the presence of the Lord, 671 00:37:28,610 --> 00:37:31,570 S2: we'll have a true understanding that he is only giving 672 00:37:31,570 --> 00:37:34,890 S2: people exactly what they wanted and that will somehow be 673 00:37:34,930 --> 00:37:37,290 S2: able to comfort us. In my opinion. 674 00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:46,850 S1: I leaned more toward the we're going to understand more. But, Bill, 675 00:37:46,850 --> 00:37:50,810 S1: I feel what you're feeling there and and what you're 676 00:37:50,810 --> 00:37:52,690 S1: expressing here. And there are a lot of people who 677 00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:54,930 S1: are feeling the same thing. Anything else you wanted to 678 00:37:54,930 --> 00:37:56,930 S1: say before we leave you, Bill? 679 00:37:57,330 --> 00:37:59,850 S12: No. That's all. Happy birthday. And my birthday's tomorrow, so 680 00:37:59,850 --> 00:38:00,730 S12: God bless you guys. 681 00:38:00,770 --> 00:38:02,690 S13: Yay! Well, happy birthday to you. 682 00:38:02,850 --> 00:38:05,050 S2: Hey, Bill, can I just add one more thing? 683 00:38:05,410 --> 00:38:06,089 S11: Sure. 684 00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:10,649 S2: Your loved ones, their time's not up. Yeah, they they 685 00:38:10,690 --> 00:38:15,770 S2: have opportunities still. You keep praying. You keep loving them. Uh, 686 00:38:16,410 --> 00:38:18,210 S2: ask the hound of Heaven to pursue them. 687 00:38:18,250 --> 00:38:18,690 S11: Yes. 688 00:38:18,850 --> 00:38:22,469 S2: And and and draw comfort now that you can still 689 00:38:22,469 --> 00:38:26,149 S2: pray for them and and ask God for opportunities for 690 00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:28,310 S2: you to encourage them as well. Mhm. Okay. 691 00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:31,430 S1: Would you pray for Bill's kids right now? 692 00:38:31,469 --> 00:38:36,430 S3: Sure. So, Laura, like we've already said, you know, we 693 00:38:36,469 --> 00:38:41,030 S3: we can't possibly understand the depth of his anguish about this. 694 00:38:42,030 --> 00:38:44,910 S3: I want to pray, father, that, um, you would give 695 00:38:44,910 --> 00:38:48,430 S3: him the hope that until his kids draw their last breath, 696 00:38:48,590 --> 00:38:51,950 S3: that there is still hope, they could still trust Jesus 697 00:38:51,950 --> 00:38:54,910 S3: as their Savior. I pray you help Bill to have 698 00:38:54,910 --> 00:38:58,509 S3: wisdom in keeping the doors of communication and affection open 699 00:38:58,870 --> 00:39:02,590 S3: to them. That you would use Bill and other, um, 700 00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:05,710 S3: winsome Christian people to come into their lives and to 701 00:39:05,710 --> 00:39:08,029 S3: share the gospel with Jesus, and that your spirit might 702 00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:10,589 S3: draw them to that point where they will trust him 703 00:39:10,590 --> 00:39:13,710 S3: as Savior. In the meantime, father, I just pray you'd 704 00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:16,830 S3: help build to to rely on you, to trust you, 705 00:39:16,830 --> 00:39:23,049 S3: to draw strength and encouragement and comfort from you. Um, you, 706 00:39:23,090 --> 00:39:25,810 S3: you know, you know everything, God, you do everything. And 707 00:39:25,810 --> 00:39:28,930 S3: you do it according to your will in a beautiful way. 708 00:39:28,969 --> 00:39:31,170 S3: And so help Bill with the truth of those things 709 00:39:31,170 --> 00:39:35,129 S3: and let those steady him, please. In Jesus name I pray. Amen. 710 00:39:35,770 --> 00:39:38,650 S1: I think of that, the peace that passes all understanding, 711 00:39:38,650 --> 00:39:43,370 S1: that as you walk through your life now with this 712 00:39:43,410 --> 00:39:47,649 S1: kind of anxiety, uh, hanging over you, that God would 713 00:39:47,650 --> 00:39:50,370 S1: give you that kind of peace. Bill, I'm so glad 714 00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:52,970 S1: you called today. There's somebody who's struggling with that question. 715 00:39:52,969 --> 00:39:56,009 S1: You asked it, asked it. Well, and we have one 716 00:39:56,010 --> 00:39:58,569 S1: final segment with the two Michaels coming up. This is 717 00:39:58,570 --> 00:40:03,090 S1: Chris Fay Wray live on Moody Radio Online. Chris Fabry live.org. 718 00:40:13,210 --> 00:40:14,089 S8: Now make sure you listen to. 719 00:40:14,130 --> 00:40:18,170 S1: Open Line on Saturday morning here on Moody Radio with 720 00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:22,030 S1: Doctor Randall. get a copy of a one volume commentary 721 00:40:22,030 --> 00:40:25,710 S1: on the whole Bible. The Moody Bible commentary general editors 722 00:40:25,710 --> 00:40:30,790 S1: Michael Michael Van Landingham gave a link at Chris favorite.org, 723 00:40:31,070 --> 00:40:34,910 S1: and I saw a video of our very own Michael 724 00:40:34,910 --> 00:40:39,469 S1: Rudnick sitting in a white chair talking about his life. 725 00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:41,710 S1: And we're going to. Tricia's going to put that on 726 00:40:41,710 --> 00:40:44,270 S1: the website. If you have not seen this, you got 727 00:40:44,270 --> 00:40:47,270 S1: to go to Chris Fabry live.org and click on this. 728 00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:48,670 S1: Tell me more about that, Michael. 729 00:40:48,670 --> 00:40:51,390 S2: Well, it's a chosen People Ministries has a campaign called 730 00:40:51,390 --> 00:40:54,029 S2: I Found Shalom, and they have testimonies of Jewish people 731 00:40:54,030 --> 00:40:57,069 S2: who have found the peace of God through Messiah. And 732 00:40:57,950 --> 00:41:00,190 S2: and so I did it last summer. It got posted 733 00:41:00,190 --> 00:41:04,190 S2: recently and a lot of a lot of replies and comments. 734 00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:06,910 S2: But here's an interesting. I think it was this is 735 00:41:06,910 --> 00:41:10,509 S2: the most encouraging thing. First night it got posted, I 736 00:41:10,510 --> 00:41:14,590 S2: started shouting about this. Here's what happened. Uh, when I was, 737 00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:16,950 S2: I went to Hebrew school with this guy. I went 738 00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:20,089 S2: to high school with him. Uh, he used to play 739 00:41:20,090 --> 00:41:22,730 S2: ball with him in the schoolyard where we all played 740 00:41:22,730 --> 00:41:26,170 S2: Knight Center. And when I would come to the schoolyard 741 00:41:26,170 --> 00:41:29,610 S2: after I'd become a follower of Jesus, uh, he would 742 00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:33,450 S2: get on the steps on the side and start shouting 743 00:41:33,450 --> 00:41:37,010 S2: mockery in front of everyone, just busting on me and 744 00:41:37,010 --> 00:41:39,850 S2: making fun of me and making fun of me. Even 745 00:41:39,850 --> 00:41:42,330 S2: that I didn't smoke pot like other guys did there, 746 00:41:42,330 --> 00:41:49,770 S2: and just hassling me like crazy, publicly, loudly. And then 747 00:41:49,890 --> 00:41:53,009 S2: about ten years ago, we reconnected on Facebook and he said, 748 00:41:53,010 --> 00:41:55,850 S2: I'm really sorry for the way I'm an atheist, but 749 00:41:55,850 --> 00:41:58,810 S2: I'm really sorry for the way I treated you back then. 750 00:41:58,810 --> 00:42:00,690 S2: And it was fine. And we've kind of had an 751 00:42:00,690 --> 00:42:06,410 S2: occasional interaction. Never really. One time I saw him since then, but, uh, 752 00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:10,969 S2: mostly on Facebook. Anyway, my story has my mom being 753 00:42:10,969 --> 00:42:14,850 S2: a secret believer, a closeted believer, and this is what 754 00:42:14,850 --> 00:42:18,109 S2: he wrote after this video comes out. I like this 755 00:42:18,110 --> 00:42:23,190 S2: part at the beginning. Firstly, you look great. Then he says, 756 00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:27,390 S2: in those initial times when you found Yeshua, I might 757 00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:29,629 S2: have given you some flack back in the Holy Land 758 00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:35,870 S2: of Brooklyn. Forgive me, but today I am also a 759 00:42:35,870 --> 00:42:40,790 S2: closeted secret follower as I too have a connection to Jesus. 760 00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:44,670 S2: I do not belong to a messianic congregation, but I 761 00:42:44,670 --> 00:42:48,029 S2: believe in him and I tell certain people of my 762 00:42:48,030 --> 00:42:51,590 S2: faith in him. Life's a journey and we all reach 763 00:42:51,590 --> 00:42:54,549 S2: places at different stages. But I can say your story 764 00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:58,090 S2: was the best. 12 minutes. 1230, 12 minutes and 32 765 00:42:58,090 --> 00:43:00,910 S2: seconds I've spent learning in decades. 766 00:43:00,950 --> 00:43:01,350 S13: Wow. 767 00:43:01,590 --> 00:43:01,910 S3: Wow. 768 00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:09,830 S2: And that I. So I saw this comment and Eva 769 00:43:09,830 --> 00:43:12,109 S2: was brushing her teeth. And I'm sitting at the foot 770 00:43:12,110 --> 00:43:15,509 S2: of our bed and I start going, wow! Wow. I 771 00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:18,250 S2: was Shouting wow! She thought something bad happened. She comes 772 00:43:18,250 --> 00:43:21,210 S2: running out with her toothbrush in her mouth. What? You know. 773 00:43:21,610 --> 00:43:23,170 S1: And nobody was hitting you on the back of the 774 00:43:23,210 --> 00:43:25,090 S1: on your back. No, this was just. 775 00:43:26,050 --> 00:43:28,770 S2: And he talked about. He goes on talking about going 776 00:43:28,810 --> 00:43:33,330 S2: to Israel and seeing the places where Yeshua walked and 777 00:43:33,330 --> 00:43:36,130 S2: how it just convinced him. Wow. 778 00:43:36,410 --> 00:43:36,810 S3: Wow. 779 00:43:36,930 --> 00:43:37,250 S2: Isn't that. 780 00:43:37,250 --> 00:43:40,730 S1: Great? Same thing. That is fantastic. And you never know. 781 00:43:40,770 --> 00:43:45,210 S1: And again, thinking of Bill's kids, he doesn't know what 782 00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:46,450 S1: video they're going to see. 783 00:43:46,770 --> 00:43:47,890 S2: That's why I thought of this. Yeah. 784 00:43:47,930 --> 00:43:51,130 S1: Yeah. And who they're going to, you know, work next 785 00:43:51,130 --> 00:43:54,970 S1: to or what somebody's going to say. And I guess 786 00:43:54,969 --> 00:43:57,730 S1: the real question for all of us is, who are 787 00:43:57,730 --> 00:43:59,810 S1: you going to trust with these people that you care 788 00:43:59,810 --> 00:44:03,049 S1: about the most? You have to entrust them into the 789 00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:07,090 S1: one who loved them enough to die for them. Right, Michael. 790 00:44:07,250 --> 00:44:09,330 S2: That's it. And that's why I was I was saying, 791 00:44:09,370 --> 00:44:11,810 S2: you know, this is 50 years ago when he would 792 00:44:11,810 --> 00:44:16,680 S2: mock me in, in the schoolyard, You know, that's more 793 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:23,200 S2: than 50 years. And and yet here he is. He 794 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,080 S2: says he's a secret believer, but he did it on 795 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,719 S2: my Facebook page that he said this, apparently. And his 796 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,440 S2: name is there. Everyone knows now that's, you know, the 797 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,000 S2: people who have looked at it. I think there's been 798 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,359 S2: about 5000 views of that video. Wow. Well, there's gotta be. 799 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,640 S1: More now because we're going to link it@chris.org. 800 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,359 S2: There's going to be million views right. Chris Avery live. 801 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,240 S1: So I don't know about that. 802 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,160 S2: But the the point is you just can't give up 803 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,160 S2: on people. You've got to keep praying for them, keep, uh, 804 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,920 S2: taking every opportunity when the Lord gives it to us 805 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,560 S2: to lovingly Winsomely talk about, uh, the good news of Messiah. 806 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,359 S2: And I'm just so excited that when I saw that 807 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:02,880 S2: I was, I was shouting for joy. 808 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:04,800 S8: We all have those stories. 809 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,640 S1: Mike V, you probably have stories too, of the people 810 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,160 S1: that you thought they will never. Or maybe you yourself. 811 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,080 S1: I'll never, you know, and God grabbed a hold of you. 812 00:45:14,140 --> 00:45:16,100 S1: The hound of Heaven chased you down, didn't he? 813 00:45:17,180 --> 00:45:19,100 S3: Yeah. I mean, the hound of Heaven does that with 814 00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:21,700 S3: everybody who comes to Christ. You know, we're all trophies 815 00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:23,020 S3: of grace. We really are. 816 00:45:23,219 --> 00:45:24,580 S14: Mhm. It's true. 817 00:45:24,780 --> 00:45:26,980 S1: I'm glad to hear it. Michael, thank you for, uh, 818 00:45:26,980 --> 00:45:28,859 S1: for sharing that today. We're not going to get to 819 00:45:28,860 --> 00:45:31,940 S1: you the rest of the questions here, because there's some 820 00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:34,340 S1: important things that happened here on the program today. I 821 00:45:34,340 --> 00:45:37,020 S1: don't know if you picked up on them, uh, not 822 00:45:37,020 --> 00:45:41,580 S1: just how much Michael weighed when he was born, but 823 00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:45,620 S1: some real spiritual stuff that God is moving in hearts. 824 00:45:45,620 --> 00:45:48,620 S1: And you were part of that today as you've listened here, 825 00:45:48,980 --> 00:45:52,700 S1: as you pray for those people who call in. And, uh, 826 00:45:52,700 --> 00:45:55,660 S1: I can't thank you enough, Michael and Michael, for doing this. 827 00:45:55,660 --> 00:45:57,580 S1: You're going to come back in September now. 828 00:45:58,060 --> 00:45:58,980 S11: Looking forward to it. 829 00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:01,660 S1: On the first day of autumn, I think it is. 830 00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:04,220 S1: So make sure you mark it down in your calendar. 831 00:46:04,219 --> 00:46:06,980 S1: Come on back the 23rd of September as we head 832 00:46:07,020 --> 00:46:13,640 S1: toward fall and winter and the Bible right here at 833 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,000 S1: the back fence. Happy birthday, Michael. 834 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:16,719 S11: Thank you. 835 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:17,880 S2: Happy birthday Michael. 836 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:18,840 S3: Thanks, guys. 837 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,040 S1: And we're going to record a back fence post. By 838 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,440 S1: the way, if you are a back fence partner with 839 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,879 S1: us and you get the video every Thursday, we're going 840 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,160 S1: to record next Thursday's video. Make sure you you look 841 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:30,800 S1: at that. And if you want to become a partner, 842 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:38,000 S1: go to Chris fabry.org. Tomorrow something happened at the pitcher's mound. 843 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,200 S1: A coach went out to his little league team. The 844 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,640 S1: pitcher was in a pickle and the coach said something 845 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,759 S1: that has divided the internet. Some people said that was 846 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,040 S1: the best thing I've ever heard. Others said that was 847 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,400 S1: just awful. And we're going to hear what he said 848 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,759 S1: and talk with the coach tomorrow. Here at the back fence. 849 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,680 S1: Chris Fabry Live is a production of Moody Radio, a 850 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,880 S1: Ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.