S1: It's a different kind of two Michaels program today. Stay
S1: with me. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends.
S1: Welcome to Open Line. My name is Michael Radonich. I'm
S1: the academic dean and professor of Jewish studies and Bible
S1: at Moody Bible Institute. And now it's time for our
S1: Bible study across America. We're sitting around the radio kitchen table.
S1: We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God, and
S1: the spiritual life. If you have a question and you'd
S1: like to call, here's the phone number (877) 548-3675. Let me
S1: give that to you again. Maybe you can write it
S1: down (877) 548-3675. And everyone wants to know I always try
S1: to get through, but I can't, uh, I get a
S1: busy signal. Here's the best way to get through. Call now,
S1: right at the beginning of the program. That's the time
S1: to get through. (877) 548-3675. Tricia McMillan is in the producer's chair.
S1: Omar Mendoza is our tech guy today, and Titus is
S1: answering the phones again. Phone number (877) 548-3675. It's time to
S1: get yourself a cup of coffee and open your Bible.
S1: We're about to study the scriptures together, and I have
S1: someone that's going to study with us today, and I
S1: want to introduce him before anything else. His name is
S1: doctor Mike Fabares. He's the lead pastor at Compass Bible Church.
S1: He's the Bible teacher on Focal Point Radio, a nationally
S1: syndicated radio program heard all across Moody Radio and other
S1: stations as well. This audience knows him well. He's the
S1: regular guest host on Open Line. He's one of my
S1: favorite Bible teachers. Listen to his program all the time,
S1: and I'm grateful to call him friend. I want to
S1: thank you for joining me this morning as I crash
S1: your studio here at Compass Bible Church. Mike. Well, you're.
S2: In California and you're still still kicking. God didn't strike
S2: you down coming to the left coast this week.
S1: Yeah. You know, it's a beautiful facility here. And I
S1: really encourage anyone that comes out to Orange County. Aliso Viejo.
S1: Did I say it right? Close enough.
S2: Close enough. Better than my Hebrew pronunciation. Okay. That's good. Okay.
S1: It's a beautiful church, and it's a really terrific place
S1: to hear the word taught and become a part of
S1: a community of believers. But, you know, it's unfortunate. I
S1: don't think Open Line really airs here in Orange County.
S1: I don't think we have a station. I've got to
S1: find a station only online.
S2: Yeah, I think only online.
S1: Anyway, it's, uh, great to have you. I think that
S1: before we answer calls, there's something I wanted to talk
S1: with you about. I heard you share your faith story
S1: once about how it is that you came to know
S1: the Lord. I think it's so, well, unique for what
S1: I would say, a moody student experience. So why don't
S1: you tell us that?
S2: Well, I became a Christian in Culbertson Hall in the
S2: 16th floor in 1609. That little cracker box of a
S2: of a dorm room. And I was trying to just
S2: be obedient to my father, and I was not doing
S2: it happily. See, my dad had said to me, had
S2: said to me that I needed to go to Bible
S2: school before I went to college. And of course, I
S2: was in a situation of saying, well, I got my
S2: college all planned out, dad. But, you know, my dad, Jake,
S2: he said, you got to go to Bible school because
S2: if you don't get a year of Bible school, you're
S2: going to go to the university and you're going to
S2: be you're going to be wiped out because all the
S2: all the things that are teaching at the university these
S2: days is going to corrupt your faith. Well, dad, of course,
S2: thought I had faith because I was a church kid,
S2: grew up in church and thought just because I went
S2: to church, I was a Christian and I got to
S2: the place of realizing once I got to Moody, putting
S2: in my my one year that, um, I wasn't and
S2: that was that was a hard realization. I didn't know
S2: what was going on exactly, but I knew I couldn't
S2: have one foot in and one foot out. And that's
S2: kind of how I realized, as I got exposed to
S2: the great teaching of the professors at Moody. Here I
S2: was as an 18 year old, just turned 18, and
S2: I said, God, I'm either going to have to get
S2: out of this place because it's too much pressure. It's
S2: making me sweat. Every, every class is is killing me here.
S2: And I realized that Christianity was was not something you
S2: could do part time. And I realized that's what I
S2: was doing on Sundays and Wednesdays as a teenager. But
S2: I remember kneeling down at my bed there in that
S2: little dorm room facing downtown, hearing the sirens and all
S2: that was going on. And I said, God, you've got
S2: my life. This is I'm tired of fighting. I'm tired
S2: of holding back. I'm tired of keeping my own dreams
S2: in my own back pocket. And saying I can put
S2: a little Christ in my life and be okay. And really,
S2: was that truth of Second Corinthians 515 that, you know,
S2: I had to see it as that Christ had died
S2: for me, so that those who live would no longer
S2: live for themselves, but for the one who died for
S2: them and rose again. So I, uh, I just said, God,
S2: I'm yours. And everything changed. From that point on, I
S2: realized there was a real organic change from the inside out.
S2: And that's what the Bible calls the Holy Spirit invading
S2: your life. And things were different from that point on
S2: and put me on a path that ended up right
S2: here in the studio with Michael Riedel. Nick. Yeah, look
S2: at that. Amazing.
S1: Now, was it after hearing a sermon by at Moody Church?
S1: Is that what I.
S2: Well, Moody Church and Erwin Lutzer. It's funny. You're going
S2: to preach for me this weekend here at our church,
S2: and I'm so thankful for that. Last week, Erwin Lutzer
S2: was here preaching. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I'll tell you what,
S2: it's just so great to have him here because he
S2: was the pastor that after I had become a Christian,
S2: I said, God, what am I supposed to do with
S2: my life? And he preached the sermon. We went to
S2: dinner last week and I told him this story, which
S2: I think I've told him before, but I said, you know,
S2: you said something about, uh, you know, we don't need
S2: Christians to dabble in a lot of things. We need
S2: Christians to do one thing and do it well. And
S2: once I said, you said that, he said, oh, I
S2: was quoting someone else. But that was the thing that
S2: got me thinking, God, what's my one thing? What am
S2: I supposed to do with my life? I want to
S2: live for Christ, but I don't know what I'm supposed
S2: to do. So, you know, being 18, that was a
S2: great time to kind of ask that question. That's why
S2: Moody is so important as an institute, right? Moody is
S2: a place that's taking young lives, young lives and helping
S2: them kind of calibrate and aim their lives by God's
S2: grace into the most fruitful and effective life they can live. So,
S2: so important that that Erwin preached that sermon and Doctor
S2: Lutzer had such an instrumental role in my life. But no,
S2: it was a missions night. I got saved on a
S2: night that someone came to Moody, I think it was
S2: in October, and he preached some sermon about, you know,
S2: the need for world missions, which Moody, you know, was
S2: known for. And I don't I don't even know what
S2: he said other than I thought, I'm not that guy.
S2: I don't want to go to the mission field. And
S2: and I realize, you know, what is it that I
S2: want versus what Christ wants? And that led me to
S2: real repentance and faith by God's grace.
S1: Huh? That's I think that's a great story. Every now
S1: and then, I hear stories like that of moody students
S1: who came because of encouragement by their dad. They thought
S1: they knew the Lord. You know what Paul says? Examine
S1: yourself to see if you're in the faith, because, you know,
S1: it could be that it's just sort of a cultural thing. And, uh,
S1: especially if you're young people.
S2: Well, I figured if Martin Luther could be a monk
S2: before he became a Christian, then I certainly could be
S2: a Bible school student before I became a Christian.
S1: I just think that's great. And I'm so glad, you know,
S1: now you serve on the board of trustees of Moody
S1: Bible Institute. Yes. I think that that's just a great
S1: movement from coming to Moody not even knowing the Lord.
S2: Yeah.
S1: And now you're on the trustee board.
S2: Amazing. God's great. God's sense of humor.
S1: Yeah. Okay, so here's the other thing. Since Thanksgiving is
S1: coming up, I thought this is something that's really important.
S1: I was thinking about one of my favorite Thanksgiving verses.
S1: Psalm 105. Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for he
S1: is good. Uh, call upon his name. That's the first
S1: verse of Psalm 105. A lot of times people neglect this.
S1: And I was my wife was actually listening to a
S1: message you gave on Focal Point. Uh, that it's not
S1: that our culture today is more about they treat Thanksgiving,
S1: about being thankful. We just should be thankful. But there's
S1: no object. There's no direct object of to whom we're thankful. Yes.
S1: And and that's what she said you were talking about
S1: in that message while I.
S2: Was preaching on that, because I had watched the news
S2: and I watched some broadcasters or newscasters say something about,
S2: you know, how thankful we should be this week and
S2: of course had no reference to God. And I thought
S2: in my own life I've seen people that feel really
S2: happy with their life. I got a great job. I
S2: got my kids are healthy, everything's good. I'm so thankful.
S2: And it's an emotional feeling of everything's good in my life.
S2: And so I guess the right thing to say is
S2: I'm thankful. But it's into the ether, right? There's no
S2: they're not thankful to anyone for anything. And they're certainly
S2: not calling out to that person as the one who
S2: provides everything. They're just saying, I feel good. Look at
S2: how good my life is. I'm thankful as though that's
S2: a humble way to say, look at what I've accomplished, right?
S2: They're not Nebuchadnezzar walking around on the portico of his palace,
S2: but they have a sense of yeah, okay, I'm thankful.
S2: And I just irritated me. And before that, I preached
S2: that sermon. I just, I thought, we have to be clear.
S2: We cannot let people get away with saying they're thankful.
S2: You need to ask them to to to who are
S2: you thankful to? To what? Yourself. Right? The cosmos, you know,
S2: who are you thankful to? And of course, the Bible
S2: gives us the answer, right? Every good and perfect gift
S2: comes from God, and we need to be thankful to him.
S2: And then we need to call on his name because
S2: he's the one that provides everything for us.
S1: Exactly, exactly. So that's that's why I like Psalm 105.
S1: There's so many verses about thankfulness, but it's always being
S1: thankful to the one who is our great provider, our
S1: great giver, with his kindness. And so again this year
S1: at Thanksgiving, when you sit around the table and everyone
S1: says how thankful they are, remember folks who are supposed
S1: to say we're thankful to and call upon him more
S1: and more. One of the things I love about, uh,
S1: of many things I love about my wife, but one
S1: thing I love is whenever someone says, how are you doing?
S1: She always says, Thank God. Mhm. Mhm. Because in him
S1: we live and move and have our being every breath
S1: we take.
S2: She knows that of late. Yeah, yeah. How God has
S2: taken her through so much. Yeah.
S1: So God's been good. So good. Yeah. Okay. Well, uh,
S1: I think it's time to take a call. Uh. Uh,
S1: who do we have first? Well, well, let's.
S2: Start with, uh, we've got a call from Florida here.
S2: Uh nilsa. You're on the air with Michael and Mike.
S2: How can we help?
S1: Yes, sir. How can we help you? Yeah.
S3: Yes. I just have a question regarding cremation, and, um.
S3: Is it wrong? Is it right, or where in the
S3: Bible would I find something like that?
S1: Oh, Neil said, let me just tell you something I
S1: used to. I'm going to tell you this because it's
S1: a book written by pastor Mike that changed my perspective
S1: on cremation. Uh, not because I ever thought it was good,
S1: but because I didn't think that the Bible spoke to it.
S1: So here, I'll give you my answer. And then I'm
S1: going to have pastor Mike jump in. I'm going to
S1: start this way. Uh, first of all, I, I didn't
S1: personally think that the Bible spoke to it. A lot
S1: of people are looking to save money and so they
S1: are choosing create a cremation as an alternative. But I
S1: always would say, listen, I was raised in an observant
S1: Jewish home. According to Judaism, we must treat the body
S1: as a vessel that held something holy and therefore should
S1: be treated with respect and dignity and not cremated. And
S1: then I further feel this way, because I had most
S1: of my family murdered and cremated at Auschwitz and Treblinka,
S1: even four brothers and a sister, half brothers and half sister.
S1: So the the result was I just found it creepy
S1: and didn't like it, but I didn't think there was
S1: anything in the Bible. But then I read a book
S1: by pastor Mike and this is what he has to
S1: say about it.
S2: Well, I did write a chapter on this because I,
S2: I thought through this issue and I said, well, there's
S2: no verse or chapter I can look at that just
S2: is one verse I could quote and say, hey, it's
S2: clear right here. But I do think there's so much
S2: in the Scripture like First Corinthians six, it talks about
S2: the sacred nature of our bodies as the temple of
S2: the spirit. And you'd say, well, okay, but the Spirit
S2: of God and my spirit are gone when I die.
S2: And that's true. But God's not done with our bodies yet.
S2: Just like if you if this were Peter, James, and
S2: John talking about Jesus on the weekend of his crucifixion
S2: and said, well, let's just burn his body and pulverize
S2: his bones, we'd think, no, his body is going to
S2: come out of the grave now. It's going to be
S2: completely remade. It's going to be glorified. But Jesus didn't
S2: leave an old body in the tomb, right? God took
S2: whatever was left of that body. And even after a weekend, right,
S2: there was a lot of purification, a lot of decay.
S2: And yet God restored what was left and made a
S2: glorified body out of it. So I think Judaism was
S2: right in saying, the vessel of the body is important.
S2: God's not done with it yet. We're setting it aside
S2: respectfully in a grave. We're doing the best we can
S2: to preserve it, just like they have in Joseph's day
S2: back in Genesis and Jesus's day in the first century.
S2: And we're saying, God, you're going to bring this back
S2: to life, what's left of it, and you're going to
S2: make it and transform it to be like Christ's resurrected body.
S2: So I think we should treat the dead body with respect.
S2: I think even the laws on the books of most
S2: states will say, you can't desecrate a dead body. Why?
S2: Because I think we know intuitively it's important we don't
S2: lay it out for the trash. Right? For, you know,
S2: with the garbage. This is not garbage. This is a
S2: body made in the image of God. We should treat
S2: it with dignity. Does it cost a little bit more?
S2: Sure it does. But have some people come around and
S2: take a collection. Do whatever you have to do. It
S2: doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be expensive.
S2: Do it the best you can economically, but lay the
S2: body aside with respect and await the resurrection.
S1: Yep, I agree with that. We're going to take a
S1: break here. Appreciate your call. Nilsa I encourage anyone listening. Nilsa. Whatever. Prepare.
S1: I always say get your your your finances in order.
S1: By that grave, by that, A casket, whatever is prepared.
S1: So it's not a burden for your kids, and then
S1: it'll be fine. We're going to be right back with
S1: more of your questions right here on Open Line with
S1: doctor Mike Bowers and me, Mike Radonich. Stay with us.
S1: More questions coming up. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm
S1: Mike Radonich. Joining me today is pastor Mike Barbaros from
S1: Compass Bible Church. Taking your questions about the Bible, God
S1: and the spiritual life. Before we take more questions, I
S1: do want to mention our current resource because Paul's letters
S1: to Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians are filled with timeless wisdom
S1: for the church. Sometimes I think we need a little
S1: help unpacking these great truths, and that's where the Moody
S1: Bible Commentary excerpt comes in. You know, sometimes you think, oh,
S1: I don't know if I want that whole big, moody
S1: Bible commentary. Well, this commentary has been excerpted on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians,
S1: and Colossians, and we want to send it to you
S1: to say thank you for any gift that you choose
S1: to give it, for a gift of any size. We're
S1: going to say thank you by sending you these commentaries
S1: written by, uh, doctor Jerry Peterman, who is a chairman
S1: of the Bible department at Moody Bible Institute. Great New
S1: Testament scholar. Really, really practical explanation. I think you're really
S1: going to love this book. And when you give a
S1: gift of any size, we'll send you a copy of
S1: this excerpt from the Moody Bible Commentary on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians,
S1: and Colossians. How to give. Just call (888) 644-7122 or visit
S1: openline radio.org. And we so appreciate your generosity. Uh, we'll
S1: send you those books that that commentary on those books. Well,
S1: we're going to go back to the phones right now.
S1: And Mary is listening in Arizona on the internet. Welcome
S1: to Open Line, Mary. How can we help you today?
S4: Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I have
S4: read in the Bible that when two or more together
S4: in worship that, you know, that's considered church and I
S4: could be interpreting wrong, or do I have to be
S4: going to like a corporate church to be worshiping with others,
S4: I guess, and, you know, be be more of a
S4: true Christian? Um, I've had a conversation with my husband
S4: about this.
S1: Great, great. I, I totally get your question. And I'm
S1: going to answer part one. And then Pastor Mike's going
S1: to talk about why you need to be part of
S1: a church. Uh, if you're a follower of Jesus, that's
S1: something that's crucial. But first of all, that verse about
S1: where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name in
S1: Matthew 18, if you look at those words it's talking about,
S1: And this is something context, context context. It's talking about
S1: church discipline. And when there is discipline, the leadership of
S1: the church, 2 or 3 gather and make a congregational
S1: discipline decisions. The Lord Jesus is in the midst of that.
S1: And that's what that verse is talking about. It's not
S1: talking about prayer or worship or or anything like that.
S1: It's actually the context is church discipline. But there are
S1: great verses that teach why it is that you should
S1: be part of a community of faith, of fellow followers
S1: of the Lord Jesus and my.
S2: Yeah, well, first of all, I think you've got to
S2: look at passages like Ephesians chapter four, verses 11, 12
S2: and 13. Here is God saying he has given the
S2: church for all time until he comes back, pastors and teachers,
S2: to equip us to build up the body of Christ.
S2: They are given to us not to stream online, but
S2: to go and gather together, as it says in Hebrews ten,
S2: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the
S2: habit of some, but gathering together, encouraging one another, stirring
S2: one another on to love and good deeds. And all
S2: the more as we see the day drawing near. What
S2: I love about that last line is, I think church
S2: in person gathering and assembling is more important now than
S2: it was 50 years ago. More important now than it
S2: was 500 years ago. We must be gathered together with
S2: our chairs side by side for the teaching of the
S2: word and our chairs face to face, to stir one
S2: another up, to love and good deeds. And that is
S2: all designed by God for each Christian. Can't listen to
S2: the radio and say, that's church. I can't just meet
S2: at a coffee shop with another Christian gal and say,
S2: that's church. It is about being assembled in the church.
S2: God has designed it with pastors and deacons to lead us,
S2: and that we need to take advantage of that. And
S2: if we get to heaven and say, well, God, you know,
S2: I had a relationship with you, I didn't need all
S2: those things that you made. He's going to say you
S2: did need them. And I told you you need them
S2: and you need a pastor. Every Christian should be able
S2: to answer the question. Say, who's your pastor? So here
S2: are my pastors. I go to this church and this
S2: is my pastoral team that shepherds and keeps a count
S2: over my soul.
S1: You know, there was a woman in my congregation when
S1: I was a pastor. She would come quite infrequently off
S1: and on, and I encouraged her and her husband to
S1: be more faithful. And she said, why should I be
S1: more faithful? I can listen to Charles Stanley, and he's
S1: a better preacher than you are. And I thought, that's
S1: really true. He is. And that was fine, I said,
S1: but I said, there are people that need you when
S1: you're at services. It's not just about what you need.
S1: There are people that need you. And she said, oh no,
S1: no one needs me. And I said, just test it
S1: and see. And so she arrived one week right after
S1: we talked about that. And she's sitting in service and
S1: there's a woman weeping during the whole service. It was
S1: very unusual. And so this friend of mine leans over
S1: and says, can I help you? And it turns out
S1: that her marriage had blown up that week. It had
S1: just been destroyed. Things happened and she was heartbroken. And
S1: so this friend of mine said, oh, we need to talk.
S1: And off they went to a corner. And they she
S1: encouraged her and prayed with her. And what I think
S1: is funny, that was probably 30 years ago or more
S1: 35 years ago. They are still close friends to this day.
S1: And she came up to me and she says, I
S1: hate it when you're right. Michael, I just hate it
S1: when you're right. Because she realized that she needed to
S1: be there to minister to that other woman. That's why
S1: we stir each other up to love and good deeds.
S1: We we encourage one another. It's why it's so important.
S1: It's not just for what we can receive in that community,
S1: but also what we can give so that we can
S1: speak to each other with songs and hymns and all
S1: sorts of spiritual truths that we share with one another
S1: as we are in worship services together. Okay, I hope
S1: that helps, Mary.
S4: Yes, very much so. Thank you so much.
S1: Great, thanks. Thanks for calling. We're going to talk with
S1: Debbie in Punta Gorda, Florida, listening on Debbie SLR, welcome
S1: to Open Line. Debbie, how can we help you?
S5: Thank you. Well, I want to kind of maybe follow
S5: up on Nils's question. Um, our glorified bodies. My question was,
S5: after the rapture and the marriage supper of the lamb,
S5: when Christ returned to earth on his second coming, this
S5: is the armies come with him. Is that all of
S5: the saints? And will all of us come back to
S5: earth with him, or will some stay in heaven? And
S5: so that's my question.
S1: Well, I he's coming back to make war, you know,
S1: so I think I want to stay in heaven, but, uh,
S1: I don't I.
S6: Don't, you know, I want to see it.
S1: You know, when you're on the right side, it's okay. Uh,
S1: here's here's how I think, uh, I believe this is
S1: something that's so important. And, uh, what this is the
S1: first part is at the rapture. This is something that
S1: I think is so important. Uh, I kind of missed
S1: this for years and years and years. I was listening
S1: to this guy named Fabares answering Bible questions about the rapture.
S1: And he points out, and I'll maybe I'll let you
S1: point it out, who returns with Jesus at the rapture?
S1: That's that's something that's so interesting. It says, uh, in
S1: first Thessalonians four at the rapture, those who died in
S1: Christ descend with him.
S2: Yeah. Well, that's a lot of people argue about the rapture,
S2: but we are going to meet the Lord in the
S2: air if we happen to be, as First Corinthians 15
S2: and the book of Thessalonians. First Thessalonians says, we're going
S2: to meet the Lord in the air. And those who
S2: have died, right? They're going to have their bodies reassembled
S2: and met up with their spirit. And that is going
S2: to happen at the rapture. Now, at the end of
S2: the tribulation, this is your question. There is a description
S2: of this in revelation chapter 19, and it speaks about
S2: the armies of heaven coming back at the end of
S2: the tribulation. This is that scene where the Christ is
S2: seen as the rider on the white horse, and it
S2: says they're arrayed in fine linen, pure and white. And
S2: they were following him on white horses, that picture. Right.
S2: A lot of people could say, well, maybe that's the
S2: angelic host, but it seems like arrayed in fine linen
S2: is the picture of Christians clothed in Christ's righteousness. And
S2: so we'll come back. It's not going to be much
S2: of a battle. It'll be a battle. It'll be terrible.
S2: But he's going to speak a word just like he
S2: created the world with a word. He's going to judge
S2: those nations with a word. And so we're not going
S2: to get our hands dirty that day. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. You know, in first Thessalonians four where it talks
S1: about the rapture, this is the part I was talking about.
S1: It says since we believe that Jesus died and rose
S1: again in the same way God will bring with him
S1: at the rapture those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
S1: So our our immaterial portion, that spirit, we would say,
S1: goes to be with the Lord when we die. Uh,
S1: absent from the body is present with the Lord, but
S1: our bodies look like they're sleeping. That's a euphemism for death.
S1: And then when he returns, he takes those of us
S1: who have died and reassembles as Mike. Pastor Mike just
S1: said them with our bodies, and we get glorified bodies,
S1: and then we return. Uh, of course there's a bunch.
S1: So we have a resurrection at the rapture for those
S1: who have died in the Messiah. And then there's going
S1: to be a resurrection when we return with him, uh,
S1: at the the last battle, because it says in Daniel 12,
S1: that's when the Old Testament saints will be resurrected. And
S1: so that's what we're looking at in the future. Two
S1: different resurrections, one for New Testament believers, one for Old
S1: Testament saints. We're going to come right back. Thanks for
S1: your really good question. We're going to be right back
S1: with more of the mailbag. Trish is putting that together
S1: for us, and we'll be answering the questions you mailed in.
S1: So don't go away. More coming up straight ahead. And
S1: we're back. Michael Zelnick here. Pastor Mike Faber is joining me. Uh,
S1: a different kind of two Michaels, isn't it, Tricia? Also
S1: joining me right now, it is. Yeah. Usually when we
S1: have the two Michaels, it's Michael Van Landingham and me.
S1: He always says he's the other Michael. Uh, and that's
S1: always fun. But I'm so glad to be here in
S1: the studios of Compass Bible Church. And pastor Mike is
S1: here with me. He's a regular, uh, substitute host on
S1: Open Line. And, uh, it's worked out great. Really grateful
S1: to be here. I'm so grateful I get to speak
S1: here at Compass Bible Church. I'm kind of nervous, but. No,
S1: don't be nervous.
S2: You've done this before. Oh, yeah. Not here, but you've
S2: done it.
S1: I've preached once or twice before.
S2: In your.
S1: Life. So anyway. Hey, uh, one of the things I
S1: noticed when we came here is how much teamwork it needed. Uh,
S1: there were even before pastor Mike and I were on
S1: the air, there was all sorts of tech people, from
S1: Compass Bible and from Moody Radio making sure that we
S1: can come from this studio. And it's so much teamwork.
S1: I think people are always surprised at how much teamwork
S1: is necessary For open line, even on a regular basis.
S1: I mean, it's not just you and me, Tricia. There's
S1: Omar at the at the desk there. They're doing doing
S1: the board, and someone's answering the phones. It's always something.
S1: And of course, there's always Chris Siegert. He's he's there
S1: always worrying. I think that's especially his job listening and yeah,
S1: listening and making sure that everything is going to be
S1: sounding right. And I just so appreciate that. And then
S1: there's people who keep us on the air really by
S1: giving on a monthly basis. Those are our kitchen table partners.
S1: They're part of the team. Everyone that listens, part of
S1: the team. And I appreciate those kitchen table partners because
S1: they are generously giving on a monthly basis so that
S1: we can be on the air on a weekly basis,
S1: and that that just means so much to me. Some
S1: of you are listening regularly and you think, well, maybe
S1: I'd like to be a kitchen table partner too. If
S1: you'd like to become part of the team, we'd really
S1: appreciate it. Uh, all you have to do is call
S1: (888) 644-7122 or call open line or visit open line radio.org.
S1: And remember, every other week you'll get a special Bible
S1: study moment prepared exclusively for our kitchen table partners every
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S1: in your email. Again, call (888) 644-7122 or go to Open
S1: Line radio.org. Hey, Tricia. Yes. Uh, are you calm and
S1: ready for our, uh, long distance, uh, always mailbag? That's it. No, I.
S7: Did want to say, though, if you, um, our next
S7: Bible study moment that goes out will go out on
S7: Thanksgiving Day, and it features both of you. Yeah.
S1: That's right.
S7: Mike. And you talking about thankfulness.
S2: Oh that's right.
S1: Yeah. Because pastor Mike was visiting Moody for the Board
S1: of Trustees meetings, and I grabbed him out of a
S1: meeting and said, hey, let's do a Bible study moment together.
S2: I was late, but I said I got a hall
S2: pass from Doctor Riddell. Nick?
S7: Yeah, so that'll that'll be a great one. It's like,
S7: how do you how do you give thanks in all circumstances?
S7: What does that look like? How do we be thankful.
S7: So it's a really good one.
S1: Oh, good. I'm so glad. Yeah. Okay, well, let's let's
S1: look at these questions. What have you got for us?
S1: All right.
S7: I've got a couple of questions that came in from, um, Shira,
S7: who is from Israel and is currently in the US
S7: traveling around. And she wants to know two questions. Did
S7: the sons of Israel commit genocide when they conquered Canaan
S7: under Joshua's leadership? That's her first question.
S1: Well, that's a that's one of the hard questions that
S1: I don't think there's just a simple answer, but I
S1: think there are some limitations of what we know about this.
S1: First of all, uh, God gave the Canaanites a long
S1: time to repent. It says in Genesis 15 that Abraham
S1: was going to be sent. His descendants were going to
S1: be sent down for 400 years into Egypt, because the
S1: sins of the Amorites are not yet complete, meaning the
S1: Amorites was a were a Canaanite people. And what was
S1: happening is they needed to repent, and God was giving
S1: them more time. But sort of like in Romans one,
S1: God gave them over to whatever it is that they
S1: wanted to do. And so God giving them time to repent,
S1: I think that's really important to see. And then after
S1: the 400 years when Israel comes back to the land,
S1: God is going to use Israel as his instrument of
S1: judgment because the Canaanites did not repent. It's it's sort
S1: of like what God did with the world, with the
S1: Noahic flood. You know, the evil was so great he
S1: had to start over. And the same way the evil
S1: was so great in the land that God was going
S1: to judge it, just like he used the Babylonians to
S1: discipline Israel. God was going to use the Israelites to
S1: be his instrument of judgment, just like he used a
S1: flood earlier as an instrument of judgment. Now he's going
S1: to use the Israelites, and it was just a one
S1: time event. It's just now when Israel is coming into
S1: the land. That was a one time event. It wasn't
S1: supposedly a genocide to destroy all people. It was a
S1: correction from God that he used at that time. It
S1: was never to be repeated. It was an isolated one
S1: time event, and I think it's really important for us
S1: to see that. Not an easy answer, but that's what
S1: I think it is. Do you want to?
S2: Yeah. Here's what I would say. Genocide is usually a
S2: word that's used in modern parlance to describe people hating
S2: a people of a particular ethnicity. And that's not the
S2: point here of Joshua's conquest. Right? It's it's like the
S2: flood in Genesis six through nine, right? Yeah. Did God
S2: commit genocide? Well, of course, indirectly, I guess indirectly through water.
S2: But what does that mean? That means, he said, I've
S2: had enough of the sin and rebellion, and there's going
S2: to be judgment. That's the promise from the garden. Right.
S2: You sin and there will be death. And so it
S2: was in Canaan. And I got to remind you, at
S2: the end of the wilderness wanderings, just before Moses handed
S2: off the baton to Joshua, he says in Deuteronomy chapter 11,
S2: I'm going to lay the fear of you. That is you,
S2: the Israelites, Joshua, the leaders, and the dread of you
S2: on all the land that you shall tread. As he
S2: promised you. So these people like Rahab, there was already
S2: a fear. Israel's coming, Israel's coming. And this righteous people
S2: who serve this righteous God, and we're wicked. We're killing
S2: our babies in fire. And they knew it had all
S2: this time to get out. And kind of unlike what
S2: we see in Gaza today, there were plenty of nations
S2: that would have absorbed these people, right? To just go, leave, leave.
S2: And they didn't leave. So it was the intractable, doubled down, rebellious,
S2: morally corrupt people that stayed and did their children suffer
S2: because of that? Yes. Just like in the flood, everyone
S2: died except for Moses and his family. But God is
S2: the God who gives life, and he's got the right
S2: to take it away. And he used the instrument of
S2: water in the flood and the instrument of Israel in
S2: the conquest of Joshua, to do his judgment.
S1: Of course, there's one exception. And the one was Rahab.
S2: Rahab herself.
S1: That's right. Yeah. Because she believed. And as a result.
S1: So it wasn't like, oh, it doesn't matter what you
S1: believe or what you do. She attached herself to the
S1: people of Israel and the God of Israel, and she
S1: was delivered. And I think, what if what if all
S1: the Canaanites had done that, they would have been delivered
S1: as well? And so it's a hard question, there's no
S1: doubt about it. But and by the way, the word
S1: genocide was actually coined. It came into existence to describe
S1: what the Nazis did to the Jewish people. That's the
S1: very first use of it. So.
S7: Wow. Well, the second question she had is, according to
S7: the Bible, what are the limitations on fighting a war?
S7: And is Israel breaking those limitations today?
S1: Now, I just want to be really clear. I know Shira,
S1: she doesn't believe Israel is breaking those limitations. She's looking
S1: to me to give her some answers because.
S7: People are asking.
S1: Her this, her this. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh.
S2: Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say this
S2: has been a problem from the beginning of the church
S2: to say, okay, as Christians, how do we conduct war
S2: and is there a time for war? And of course,
S2: the Bible gives us a lot of history where there
S2: are times for war, and we need to do it justly.
S2: We need to have just reasons for going to war.
S2: We need to engage in war justly, unlike what we
S2: see in Gaza now hiding behind civilians. And we need
S2: to deal with war after it's over in a just
S2: and proper way. So yes, I think Christian principles is
S2: Augustine tried to lay out, are always going to lead
S2: us to a particular kind of war. That's why there's
S2: war crimes and war courts. Because there's right and wrong
S2: in war. It's not like that old phrase, all's fair
S2: in love and war is not true, right? It's not.
S2: It's not all okay. And so war has to be
S2: done in a particular way. And yes, I think there's
S2: nothing Israel cannot be blamed for civilians being killed when
S2: it's the enemies. It's Hamas hiding behind civilians. Right. They're
S2: to blame. Doubly so not only for starting this war
S2: on October 7th, but also for conducting it in an
S2: unjust way. Israel is just trying to do it the
S2: best it can. And I've never seen Modern Warfare done
S2: with as much warning and much care as Israel seems
S2: to be engaging. It doesn't mean they're perfect, but it
S2: does mean they're very careful to do this in a
S2: way that I think is is the most honoring way
S2: you can engage in something bad and it's bad. War
S2: is bad, but it's just.
S1: One of the most interesting things. I know this really
S1: because my son was an infantry soldier in the Israel
S1: Defense Forces, and he was trained to always respect the
S1: life even of your enemies, and they were trained to
S1: put themselves at risk before hurting civilians. That's something that's
S1: part of the the philosophy of of battle of the
S1: Israel Defense Forces. And most people don't realize this. They
S1: hear things like the ICC, uh, indicting and calling for
S1: the arrest of Benjamin Netanyahu and also Yoav Galant, the
S1: former defense minister. And it's just not true. It is driven,
S1: I believe, that is driven by an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish animus, uh,
S1: by the ICC. Uh, and but in terms of what
S1: Israel is doing, this is what John Spencer from West
S1: Point has said. No nation in the history of urban
S1: warfare has been more careful for civilians and has had
S1: such a low ratio of, a civilian to combatant death,
S1: as Israel has had in this war with Hamas in Gaza.
S1: So it is a different kind of perspective. But yeah,
S1: I do think that Israel is carrying out this battle justly,
S1: and it's a tragedy that Hamas is hiding behind civilians,
S1: putting their weapons in areas that where civilians live. It's
S1: a terrible consequence of war.
S7: So are there are there scriptures that talk to this
S7: on either side? Like, I remember just war theory coming, um,
S7: being really big right after nine over 11 happened that
S7: there was a lot of conversation about what is just
S7: war and just war theory. Conversations were happening from believers
S7: in Jesus. There isn't.
S1: A whole lot of verses that talk about just war.
S2: But I will. I will give you a few. If
S2: you think about just causes, go to Psalm 82 and
S2: that would be a good passage to read and to
S2: study as far as just conduct. Deuteronomy 20. That's a
S2: passage that when you go out to war against your enemies. Dot, dot, dot.
S2: And then just conditions for peace. Second Chronicles 28 I
S2: think dealing with how they solved and ended this with
S2: the captives. I just think all of those are certainly
S2: passages that inform just war theory, which is just causes,
S2: just conduct, just conditions for peace. And it's just something
S2: I have books on my bookshelf. There's just so much
S2: that could be said. It's an assembled argument, but there
S2: is plenty of material. It's just I can't point to
S2: chapter and verse of just having all of them in
S2: one place.
S1: One verse, I think, is so imperative that we look
S1: at and I'm going to just mention, it's Romans 13,
S1: verse four. It says, for government is God's servant for
S1: your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because
S1: it does not carry the sword for no reason. For
S1: government is God's servant, an Avenger who brings wrath on
S1: the one who does wrong. I think that's the the
S1: assault weapon was the the sword of that day. And, uh,
S1: and so that's the M16 of that day, you know,
S1: and that's what they were using. And so it is
S1: to punish evildoers and to protect the innocent. That's the
S1: purpose of war in that in that setting, we're going
S1: to come back with more of your questions in just
S1: a bit. So don't go away. Thanks, Tricia, for bringing
S1: the mailbag in. This is Mike Fabros and Mike Radonich.
S1: Michael Radonich and Tricia McMillan. We'll be right back. Some
S1: claim Paul is the key person who took the message
S1: of the Jewish Messiah. Jesus made it into something Gentile.
S1: But Paul is also the one who wrote, brethren, my
S1: heart's desire for Israel is for their salvation. Romans ten
S1: one Chosen people Ministries, one of our underwriters, wants us
S1: all to learn what drove Paul's passion for his own people.
S1: They're offering the book The Heart of the Apostle by
S1: Rich Freeman, free to all open line listeners. To get
S1: this exposition of Romans nine through 11, just go to
S1: our website, openline. radio.org. Scroll down to the link that
S1: says A free gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on
S1: that and you'll be taken to a page where you
S1: can sign up for your very own free copy of
S1: The Heart of the Apostle. Paul. And we are back
S1: having a great time talking about the scriptures together. And
S1: we're going to go right back to the phones now
S1: and speak with, uh, let's see, it's Robert. Yeah. Listening
S1: on Wmbi, our flagship station in Chicago. Hey, Robert, welcome
S1: to Open Line. How can we help you?
S8: Hi. Thank you, doctor, for taking my call. I was
S8: wondering what happened to the lost tribes of Israel.
S1: Are there in my neighborhood in Brooklyn where I grew up.
S1: That's where they went. Uh, actually, there were also where
S1: I live in Chicago, in West Rogers Park. They're all
S1: over the. Here's the deal. The Lost Tribes were not lost. Uh,
S1: a lot of people think they were. But when the
S1: ten tribes went to Assyria and then Judah went to
S1: Babylon after Babylon had conquered Assyria, they kind of merged together.
S1: They all became known as Jews, Judeans and the tribes.
S1: Then you can even see in the Book of Luke
S1: when Hannah, uh, meets the uh, uh, up with with, uh,
S1: the the Lord Jesus family. Right? Anna or Hannah the prophetess.
S1: She was from the tribe of Asher. Luke 236 says that.
S1: So obviously those ten tribes were not lost. They were
S1: still there. What happened is the records were lost when
S1: the temple was destroyed in A.D. 70. The only thing
S1: that has continued on and on is that we know
S1: who we are by word of mouth, by family to family,
S1: generation to generation. We tell as Jewish people who a
S1: Levite is and who is a priest. You can see
S1: it in names like someone named Levi or someone named Levinson,
S1: or that's that's Levite or, uh, Cohen. Cohen. Yeah. Means priest. Uh,
S1: or Kohanim, uh, priests. Those are some of the names
S1: that you see Jewish people have. Uh, my name doesn't
S1: have anything like that, but I was raised to know
S1: that I was Ben Yitzhak Halevi. My name was. My
S1: Hebrew name is Avraham Moshe. Abraham. Moses of all things.
S1: But then my. That's my real name. Actually. And Ben Yitzchak,
S1: son of Isaac the Levite. That was my name. And
S1: so I know that I'm a Levite because it comes
S1: from my father. And so those. That's the only thing
S1: kept because it was designed for, uh, when the temple
S1: is rebuilt, we would know who would serve in the temple.
S1: So that's that's what happened. They were not lost. They're
S1: not the British tribes or anything like that. Okay.
S8: Okay, doctor. Thank you very much. Yep.
S1: Uh, we just don't know who they are, but God knows.
S1: Just so you know, God does indeed know. Uh, and
S1: we're going to go to the phones again. Uh, and
S1: we're going to talk with Leslie in Pennsylvania, listening on
S1: the Moody Radio app and w VM. Welcome to Open Line, Leslie.
S1: How can we help you?
S9: Good morning. Um, I'd like to ask another follow up
S9: question on Neil's question, if you don't mind.
S1: Yeah, I'm just looking at I'm looking looking at your question. Leslie,
S1: I want you to say this is how I want
S1: you to ask a question. Pastor Mike, I want to
S1: ask you a question. I'm I'm not even going to
S1: answer this one. This is just for pastor Mike. Go ahead. Leslie.
S9: Okay. Pastor Mike. Okay, so how can we apply this
S9: to the concept of organ donation?
S2: Yeah. Well, here's the thing. God is going to remake
S2: every body. And certainly we think about us in eternity
S2: and a glorified body according to the original manufacturer's specs,
S2: according to the DNA, without any problems, without any corruption.
S2: And that's going to call for, let's just say, two kidneys. Now,
S2: I know in life I have my cousin who gave
S2: her kidney to her husband, and I don't say, oh man,
S2: you don't want to live for eternity without a kidney
S2: because I know she's going to have a second kidney
S2: in her glorified body, so I don't have any problem
S2: with giving an organ for for benevolence. Now, if I say, hey,
S2: I want my corneas when I die to go to
S2: someone who needs my corneas, right? That's an act of
S2: benevolence and kindness that's different than burning my body and
S2: pulverizing it in industrial blenders and then having it all
S2: in a in a bag of ash. I'm saying to myself,
S2: this is not that might be an act of love,
S2: that may be an act of of service. And I
S2: think that's that's fine. I would not I would not
S2: donate my body to to medicine my cadaver. Let's just
S2: say I would think let's leave that for other people.
S2: But as far as parts of my body, if I
S2: choose to do that out of love and benevolence, I
S2: don't think it has any impact on what God is
S2: going to remake from what is left in our tombs
S2: or in our caskets at the end of time.
S1: Yeah, I'll just throw in, I think at at the rapture,
S1: people's kidneys who have been donated won't be flying up
S1: in the rapture or anything like that. Uh, you know,
S1: the retinas being pulled out of someone's eyes that have
S1: been donated or anything like that, just not going to happen.
S1: I'm going to trust God that he he can handle
S1: all that. It's not something that that I think we
S1: have to be concerned about, but I appreciate the call.
S1: Thanks for listening, everyone. That's the first hour. Keep listening.
S1: There's a second hour of Open Line on most of
S1: these stations. Remember, if your station doesn't carry Open line
S1: second hour, you can always listen on the Moody Radio
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S1: It also has a link to our current resource or
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S1: Open line with Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick is a production
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