S1: Hello friends. Welcome to a very special edition of Open
S1: Line with Doctor Michael Dolnick. This is Moody Radio's Bible
S1: Study Across America. But we're not going to be taking
S1: your questions. It's pre-recorded. It's special. You'll hear about why
S1: in just a moment. My name is Michael Dolnick. I'm
S1: the academic dean and also a professor of Jewish Studies
S1: and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. I am so glad
S1: to be with you today. I have a very special
S1: guest this first hour and then some other guests second hour. Uh,
S1: but it's a special weekend because today, while you're listening
S1: to this, this is the time that we're having the
S1: summit opposing anti-Semitism right here on the campus of Moody
S1: Bible Institute. You probably have heard about all the explosions
S1: of anti-Semitism since October 7th, 2023. anti-Semitism was on the
S1: rise even before then, but now it has just erupted.
S1: And as a result, Moody Bible Institute and Chosen People
S1: Ministries are having the summit opposing anti-Semitism right here on
S1: the campus of Moody Bible Institute. So don't give us
S1: a call today. Save your question for next week. You
S1: can go online if you like, Open Line radio.org, and
S1: you can post a question. And Trish will put it
S1: in the mailbag for next week. But for today, I'd
S1: like you to listen about what we're doing. And I
S1: have one of our very special speakers who is going
S1: to be speaking at the summit, too. I'm saying tomorrow,
S1: but it's actually today while you're listening to this. Uh,
S1: his name is doctor Don Sweeting, and you may recognize
S1: that name, Sweeting, maybe because he went to Colorado Christian University,
S1: where he was the president. Now he's the chancellor. And also,
S1: you may recognize the name Sweeting because Doctor George Sweeting,
S1: his dad, was the president of Moody Bible Institute, and
S1: Don and I went to Moody back in the 70s. Right.
S1: That's right. That's right. I think you graduated one year
S1: ahead of me.
S2: Not so long ago.
S1: Yeah, not so long ago. I'm so. Yeah, it just
S1: seems like yesterday. I'm so glad that you're here with me. Donna.
S1: And I really appreciate your willingness to come to Chicago
S1: to speak at this summit. It means so much to me.
S2: Well, it's great to be back at Moody, and I'm
S2: so grateful to Moody for stepping out, unlike so many
S2: schools and not just being neutral, but being positively, um,
S2: standing with Israel and with the Jewish people at this time.
S1: Yeah, it's so it's something that makes me feel really grateful.
S1: I've been at Moody now. Uh, I started as a
S1: student 50 years ago. Uh, wow. Then I was an alum,
S1: and I came to teach here 31 years ago. And
S1: I'm really grateful to be here. And, you know, there
S1: I was, this Jewish kid from Brooklyn. I really did
S1: not feel culturally that I fit in here very well.
S1: I had only come to know the Lord two years earlier.
S1: I was in a I came from an observant Jewish home.
S1: My first language wasn't even English. I spoke Yiddish in
S1: my home, the Eastern European Jewish language that Jewish people
S1: spoke in the in the small villages of Eastern Europe,
S1: where my dad was from. He was from Poland. And
S1: so I came here and I felt out of touch.
S1: But what I recognized even then, 50 years ago, was
S1: this was a place where Jewish people were cared for,
S1: where they were loved. It's the only school 102 years now.
S1: We've had a Jewish Studies major at Moody Bible Institute.
S2: It's extraordinary.
S1: Yeah. And it's it's always been a small major. So
S1: that means there's been an investment to have this program
S1: at Moody Bible Institute. So I'm extremely grateful to be here.
S1: But I'm also really grateful that you're here. Your dad
S1: is one of the people that made me feel welcomed
S1: and loved when I came to Moody right away. Uh,
S1: as a as a Jewish person, he wanted to know
S1: all about my background. He asked me all sorts of stuff,
S1: and he was really gracious. He grew.
S2: He grew up outside of New York City, real close.
S2: And he had lots of Jewish friends growing up. So,
S2: you know, this was home turf.
S1: But I think, you know, as I knew your dad,
S1: he always was pointing to the Bible and and you
S1: and I have talked about that. We were on, on
S1: Chris Fabry, uh, yesterday on Friday. And you talked about that,
S1: how important the Bible is to have an understanding and
S1: appreciation for Jewish people, particularly the Old Testament.
S2: Well, it's it's huge. And I had this fascinating conversation
S2: in the spring with an Orthodox Jewish friend in Israel,
S2: a guy named Yoram Hazony. Oh, do you know him?
S1: Sure. I don't know him personally.
S2: The institute head of the Edmund Burke Society. And he said,
S2: we're talking about what happened to our universities, and one
S2: of the things that happened is they have no students.
S2: Gen Z have no understanding of what Israel is, let
S2: alone which river, which sea. So he said, there.
S1: Are a lot of videos of which river? Which sea? Well,
S1: I think the Mississippi or something.
S2: It's worse than that. They don't know the story of Israel.
S2: They don't know the Hebrew Bible. So Yoram said, what
S2: if we were to do a little bit of a
S2: Bible study together? You bring some evangelical scholars and I'll
S2: bring some Orthodox Jewish scholars study, study Genesis through Kings
S2: to talk about the political wisdom that's in the Bible. Wow.
S2: We spent two weeks in August in Jerusalem doing this.
S2: How fantastic. But but, you know, it's just God's doing
S2: some really extraordinary things right now. Yeah. Where there are
S2: bridges being built and conversations being had because we're we're
S2: sort of in the same boat right now as culture
S2: has turned against Jewish people. Yeah. Jewish people. Israel.
S1: The canary in the coal mine.
S2: The United States, the Constitution. Western civilization, Christianity. These are
S2: all enemies of of of the the whole neo-Marxist narrative.
S2: So we find ourselves in the same boat together. And
S2: as I had one, there was a Jewish legislator, legislator
S2: in Denver. And he said to me, you know, Don,
S2: after they come after us, they're coming after you.
S1: That's it. The canary in the coal mine. Uh, you
S1: know that old illustration they would bring the canary in
S1: and when the gas would come, they knew when the
S1: canary died that to get out of there. Right. And
S1: the Jewish people, when when secular society turns on the
S1: Jewish people, which is what we're seeing right now. Right.
S1: The next step is to turn on on followers of Jesus,
S1: turn on evangelical Christianity. That's right. And that's what, you
S1: know in Nazi Germany. Yes, of course, they turned against
S1: Jewish people first, but they were going to go after
S1: the evangelical pastors next.
S2: That's right. Yeah. The famous Niemoller quote comes to mind. Right?
S2: But my my secular Jewish friends, they were just in
S2: shock at at how things have changed. And I would
S2: have conversations with them and they'd say, we don't understand
S2: what happened to our kids. They'd go to these universities
S2: and we thought they'd get a good education. But they
S2: come out hating Israel and the Jewish kids. Everything we
S2: stand for. Yeah. And they're saying, are all schools like this?
S2: And I raised my hand at the table. I go, no,
S2: not all of them. You know, Colorado Christian isn't and,
S2: you know, Moody.
S1: Bible Institute obviously isn't.
S2: It just jogs their mind. They don't they have a
S2: hard time processing that. Yeah.
S1: But now now here's the thing. I know you've always
S1: been reading the Bible, you know, raised in the home
S1: that you were in and you studied, obviously not just
S1: in your home. You went to Moody Bible Institute. You
S1: I know you went to Trinity. I don't know all
S1: the schools that you went to, but I know those
S1: are some of them, too many at Lawrence University, I
S1: knew that. Uh, but you studied the scriptures. Is is
S1: that what gave you the perspective that you do about
S1: the Jewish people?
S2: Yes and no. So when I was a student at Moody,
S2: I kind of got burned out on eschatology because there
S2: were sometimes things said in chapel, like, you know, that
S2: that just didn't make sense to me when I just
S2: remember when somebody said, if you count up the number
S2: of numerical value of Henry Kissinger's name, you'll find out
S2: he's the Antichrist. Oh, no, no, no. And I just,
S2: I just, you know, and I just said, I don't
S2: need that. I want to focus on the basics. And
S2: so I came away from Moody just just thinking. They
S2: can't figure it out. I can't figure it out. Let
S2: me focus on the the central things in the Christian faith.
S1: I just want to say that wasn't a faculty member here. No,
S1: it wasn't.
S2: And that wasn't typical of the chapels either. But but
S2: I burned out on it, honestly. And then my I
S2: was a young pastor. My dad said, do you want
S2: to lead a tour with me in Israel? We led
S2: four tours to co led four tours together. And so
S2: I and I met, we had Orthodox Jewish tour guides,
S2: and I was stunned when I learned that they believe
S2: more of the Old Testament than I did. That was
S2: sort of it was a rebuking moment. At the same time,
S2: I had been reading Paul Johnson's History of the Jews.
S2: He was a secular historian, a brilliant historian from Britain.
S2: And and as you read this thick volume, you realize
S2: there had been more persecuted than any other people in history.
S2: They have lasted and kept their identity more than any
S2: other people in history. They're more gifted than any other.
S2: And I finished that going. Something's going on. I mean,
S2: what is going on? God's. God's evidently been at work. Regathering.
S2: They're coming back into the land. Um, and so I
S2: went back to the Bible at that point and started
S2: reading the Old Testament and the New Testament together and
S2: trying to fit the pieces together. And it was out
S2: of that Bible reading that I came to a conviction
S2: that God is not done with the Jewish people or Israel.
S2: He has he he's made promises that he has to keep.
S2: The gift and the call are irrevocable. Yeah.
S1: Romans 1129. Exactly. That's so great. You know Paul Johnson's history.
S1: I've read many surveys of Jewish history like that one.
S1: And he's a brilliant writer. I think he passed away.
S1: He did. You know, he was a a kind of
S1: neo orthodox Christian. And it's one of the few Jewish
S1: history books. And he's not Jewish. And he wrote this book.
S1: It's one of the few books that sees he kind
S1: of hints at it. He says, is is this just
S1: an unusual, quirky history, or is it the hand of God? Yes.
S1: And he would raise that as a question. And obviously,
S1: he seemed to think that there was something to do
S1: with the Lord in his providence.
S2: And it was very plain. It was the hand of God. Yeah. Yeah.
S2: So so then I started doing tours over there, and
S2: then this about two years ago, a year and a
S2: half ago, I got invited by a Jewish businessman in
S2: Denver to the 75th anniversary of the State of Israel.
S2: And in the course of the the activities, they took
S2: us up to the Lebanese border, and we got briefings
S2: by IDF, and we went through some of the tunnels
S2: that Hezbollah had dug. And we and we saw things
S2: that the normal tourist doesn't see. And it was just
S2: a huge eye opener being in the land and seeing it,
S2: you know, from the sky. And that how they're surrounded
S2: by a lot of non friendly people. Um, and it
S2: deepened my love.
S1: Wow, wow. I'm so glad we're going to talk more
S1: about that in just a moment. Uh coming up against
S1: a break here. But when we come back my guest
S1: is Don Sweeting. This hour, doctor Don Sweeting is the
S1: wonderful chancellor of Colorado Christian University, an old friend of mine,
S1: but not old in his heart or in his body yet,
S1: but a long time friend, I should say. My name
S1: is Michael Melnick. You're listening to Open Line. We're going
S1: to come right back with more of our discussion about
S1: the Jewish people, Israel, and opposing anti-Semitism. Stay with us.
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S1: and the supremacy of the Lord Jesus. Request your copy
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S1: Welcome back to this special edition of Open Line. My
S1: name is Michael Riedel, and you probably think I'm going
S1: to be answering your Bible questions today. But no, today
S1: is the summit opposing anti-Semitism. So we've pre-recorded this, uh,
S1: special edition of Open Line. I'm joined by my guest
S1: this hour, doctor Don Sweeting, chancellor of Colorado Christian University.
S1: His dad was the president of Moody Bible Institute when
S1: we were both students here. How hard was that for you?
S2: It was hard. Yeah.
S1: I can imagine. My son was a student at Moody
S1: when I was a professor, and he just made a
S1: lot of jokes about it, but it was tough on him,
S1: I think.
S2: Yeah, it was easy to get a little rebellious at
S2: the time.
S1: So yeah, I met Matt Stoll, the son of Joe Stoll.
S1: He said similar. Well, because.
S2: Everybody had high, super high expectations and would put you
S2: into a box.
S1: Like being a preacher's kid, right?
S2: Honestly, looking back, they were great years. I learned the
S2: English Bible at Moody and more than any other school
S2: I've gone to. It was, it was. And my character changed.
S1: Yeah, I felt the same way that, uh, you know,
S1: I went to other schools afterwards, as you did. But
S1: for me and anyone listening, I think Moody's a great
S1: foundation for life. We have a mutual friend, Steve, who
S1: became an attorney. And people say, well, why would he
S1: go to Moody? Uh, well, it's that foundation for life.
S2: Get a Bible base.
S1: Yeah, it changes your worldview. And so it doesn't matter
S1: if you're going to full time ministry. We're all going
S1: into ministry. I think that's why Moody is such a
S1: great foundation. Whether you're going to get your paycheck in
S1: a vocational ministry or if you're going to be working
S1: in society penetrating.
S2: That's right. Look, if the Bible is the most important
S2: book in the world, and if it's God's Word, then
S2: you got to take it seriously and you better get
S2: to know it. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So anyway, let's let's do this. I think it's
S1: important to understand what's going on on our university campuses.
S1: It's quieted down a little bit now, although. Yeah. Just.
S1: But just yesterday or two days ago in Chicago at
S1: DePaul University, two Jewish students were assaulted. Right. Uh, what
S1: in the world was going on? Why are these universities.
S1: So now people say it's just anti-Israel. But they seemed.
S1: I saw swastikas, pictures of swastikas and all sorts of
S1: anti-Semitic imagery. Not just anti-Israel, but anti-Semitic imagery on these
S1: university encampments and campus, uh, protests. What's going on on
S1: our campuses. You're the expert.
S2: Mega mega shifts. So, you know, when I. When we
S2: went to college, we lived in what I call the
S2: liberal era. They had not they weren't Bible. The secular
S2: schools were all secular, but they still believed in the
S2: liberal arts and history and all that. But there's been
S2: a shift. And this shift is an ideological shift where
S2: we're in a post liberal world and the there's a
S2: whole neo-Marxist framework. Cultural Marxism is sometimes called has set
S2: in and there's been an ideological captivity of so many
S2: universities so that students come away with an ideological framework
S2: that is very anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, anti-Christian, anti-American, anti-Western, anti binary,
S2: you know, men and women. I mean, it goes in
S2: so many different directions, and it's based on a critical
S2: theory where they want to deconstruct things and turn everything
S2: upside down. Yeah.
S1: So it's bizarre that.
S2: Shaped a generation. And it's not just in the universities.
S2: It's been in the K through 12 schools. And so
S2: we're seeing a radicalized Gen Z and people are wondering,
S2: you know, what's happened to their kids. A lot of
S2: people are giving up on the university because they don't.
S2: They've lost confidence. And they say, why am I going
S2: to spend $40,000 if it's going to do that to
S2: my kid? And that's a really good question.
S1: Yeah, I agree. And, you know, I've been noticing that
S1: many of the New York high schools, you know, my
S1: sister went to a particular high school. It's it's turned
S1: radically anti-Jewish. When, when I was living there in, in
S1: the Holy Land, Brooklyn, you know, that that high school was, uh,
S1: was mostly Jewish. I'd say 75% of those students in
S1: that high school were Jewish. Uh, just a few months ago,
S1: there was a teacher in that high school, who was
S1: chased into a room and had to lock the door
S1: behind her as as crowds of students were shouting all
S1: sorts of anti-Jewish slogans and pursuing her and threatening a teacher. Yeah.
S2: Well, you think about the presidents of the three schools
S2: that testified before Congress last December, and they couldn't condemn genocide,
S2: and yet they condemn all kinds of little picayune microaggressions.
S2: You use the wrong pronoun. You know, you're grounded and
S2: and and and so it was very evident that there
S2: was an antisemite, a deep anti-Semitism at work, at places
S2: like Harvard. And then when they tried to fix it,
S2: they appointed somebody over who who was even, you know,
S2: more anti-progressive. Yeah. So it's not going to go away. Yeah.
S2: I think we're going to get a reprieve in terms
S2: of the public pressure because of the new administration.
S1: But I think for young people today who are going
S1: to college, I think schools like Colorado Christian and schools
S1: like Moody Bible Institute, depending on what people want to do.
S1: Now we both have both. Our schools have grad programs,
S1: but I think it's so important to get that foundation
S1: of understanding, you know. That's right. That that's so important. Now, now,
S1: Colorado Christian's a Christian liberal arts school. Yeah. Moody is
S1: more of a ministry training school. Right. But, you know,
S1: the foundation is there.
S2: You get a Bible foundation. I know you do at
S2: Moody because I was at Moody. But we require students
S2: to get a strong foundation in the New Testament and
S2: in the Old Testament. And we of course, we promote
S2: debate and we push the liberal arts, and we require
S2: that you learn history and you learn about the Holocaust,
S2: and you learn history.
S1: As as reality. Fact.
S2: That's right.
S1: Not not your narrative. My my lived experience versus your
S1: lived experience. Right.
S2: Yeah. And so much of this has been lost. So
S2: you have those basic realities. But then I think both
S2: of our schools have gone an extra step. So right
S2: after October 7th, we started speaking out very, very vocally.
S2: And then the day the three presidents got up to
S2: testify before Congress, we had a fundraiser for Israel. We
S2: invited all Jewish leaders in our state, and we raised
S2: over $1 million, and we gave it all to United Hatzalah,
S2: which was the big relief agency.
S1: It's a really important agency because they're the ones that
S1: when there's a murder, like like what we saw on ten, seven,
S1: 23 or like a bombing. Right?
S2: They're the first responders, first responders to anybody.
S1: Yes. And they gather it doesn't matter. And they gather
S1: they actually gather up all the body parts and they
S1: they treat them with great dignity and respect because of
S1: how they believe that that man is made in the
S1: image of God. Humanity is made in the image of God.
S2: That's right. So so we were doing things like that.
S2: And you're doing a conference like this, and I'm just
S2: saying to our audience. You're not going to find this
S2: at many, many schools. No, there are so many schools
S2: have either let this stuff go wild or they're silent
S2: because they treat it like, oh, it's a morally neutral thing.
S2: You know, Israel's as bad as Hamas and it's just terrible.
S1: So, you know, the big transition that, uh, that I've
S1: seen is that after 1967, with the Six-Day War in 1968,
S1: all of a sudden the Jewish people went from being oppressed.
S1: And that's why Israel existed. So they could defend themselves
S1: to oppress her. Right. It was that was the big change.
S1: And I think that that has to do with the
S1: the new left that erupted. Yeah, that came out of
S1: the woodwork there. You know, we had the 1968 convention
S1: here in Chicago. It's the.
S2: Post-liberal left. So it's not even liberal, you know. In fact,
S2: the liberals are very are looking at this going, what's
S2: happened to America? This used to be a safe haven,
S2: but it's a post liberal progressive again culturally Marxist. It
S2: uses Marxist categorized categories to to look at things.
S1: And so it seems to me like the old Marxist
S1: category was economic, you know. That's right. It was the
S1: haves versus the have nots. Yeah.
S2: And this is cultural.
S1: It's cultural and it's almost it's, you know, it's it's
S1: the white people's oppressing the dark peoples. And there's no
S1: question that there was a history of racism in the
S1: past and all that. However, when you look at the situation,
S1: for example, in Israel, it was somehow chosen that the
S1: Jewish people of Israel were the white people, the white oppressors,
S1: and the Palestinians were the oppressed. And you've been to Israel.
S1: Can you tell the difference? Yeah, right. We look the same.
S1: So it's quite arbitrary when you think about it. So
S1: that's shocking. But it now I care deeply for Palestinians.
S1: I know you do too. I'd love to see Palestinians
S1: come to know the Lord, just as I want Jewish
S1: people to come to know the Lord. Uh, but. And
S1: there's there's no but about wanting them to come to
S1: the Lord. But there are situations, like with groups like
S1: Hamas that are murderous, genocidal groups, that it's that's why
S1: the Bible says there's a time for war and a
S1: time for peace. Right? There are times that that it's
S1: it's justifiable to go to war, right?
S2: Israel has to defend its people, as any nation should.
S2: And what Hamas has done to the Palestinian people is, is,
S2: is terrible.
S1: I think what they've done. Yeah. Is oppressing their own people.
S2: And it's and it's not just in Gaza. It's it's
S2: in Lebanon now where they found all these missile factories underneath,
S2: you know, homes and hospitals and everything else. This is
S2: this goes against what, you know, UN regulations of what
S2: you're supposed to do. And it really makes you a
S2: war zone. You're not a school or a hospital is
S2: not to be a war zone.
S1: So I have this very dear Palestinian neighbor who's very
S1: kind to me, always good neighbor here in Chicago. And
S1: he said a very interesting thing to me because he
S1: was he was talking about how oppressed his family felt,
S1: not by even Hamas, but by the Palestinian Authority. Yes.
S1: And and so I was kind of tell me more,
S1: tell me more. And I said, well, let me ask
S1: you this. Every year I see reports at Christmas time
S1: about how Israel is oppressing the Palestinians and the Palestinian
S1: Christians and and your Palestinian Christian family, who why don't
S1: you speak out? He said, and he puts his hand
S1: on my hand and he says, oh, my brother, don't
S1: you know, if I spoke out, they would go find
S1: my family and kill them. And so he.
S2: Was talking about the Palestinian Authority. Yeah. That would do that. Yeah. Yeah.
S2: That's right. Yeah. I hear the same stories.
S1: Yeah, that's. That's shocking and terrible. And so one of
S1: the speakers at this seminar, a seminar summit tomorrow, is
S1: a pastor from a congregation in Nazareth. He's a Palestinian
S1: Christian who says he feels so much safer living as
S1: a citizen of Israel. Right, because.
S2: He's heard the same stories? Yeah. So when I was
S2: there in August, we had a Palestinian Christian meet with
S2: us and and he said, you know, all the schools
S2: in the Palestinian territories in Jerusalem and in, in, uh, uh,
S2: certainly in Gaza, they're they're using the Islamic narrative to
S2: teach the history. So he said, we naturally grow up
S2: just hating, hating Israel. And he said, so that's the
S2: way I was raised. And then my cousin, um, received
S2: a request to, to marry this Islamic man. And she
S2: said no. And they, they they forced her. They abducted her. Wow.
S2: And when we tried to intervene, they threatened our lives.
S2: And he said it was at that point that I
S2: had to question everything. He moved to Tel Aviv, and
S2: he realized that he had been sold a false bill
S2: of goods. Yeah. Wow.
S1: Well, that's that's an amazing story. We'll talk more about
S1: things like that when we come back. That's don sweet.
S1: I'm Michael Ray Dolnick. Stay with us. There's more to
S1: come right here on Open Line. We're so glad that
S1: Febc partners with Open Line with Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick
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S1: Org on their weekly podcast. Until all have heard with
S1: Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives changed by Messiah
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S1: when you visit febc. Korg. That's FBC Korg. Welcome back friends.
S1: My name is Michael Ray Zelnick and normally you would
S1: be calling with your questions about the Bible, God or
S1: the spiritual life. We sit around the radio kitchen table,
S1: talk about the scriptures. It's the Bible study all across America. However,
S1: today is a special pre-recorded program, so there's no need
S1: to call. You can call next week or you can
S1: send your question. All you have to do is go
S1: to Openline radio.org. Click on the link that says Ask
S1: Michael a question and it'll get posted. And then Tricia
S1: will put it in the mailbag, the Febc mailbag for
S1: next week. But joining me today is he he has
S1: no idea. He's he's well beloved by me. We've been
S1: friends or at least acquaintances for many years because we
S1: went to college together. This is doctor Don Sweeting. But,
S1: you know, his dad is really my all time hero
S1: in life. I've always said when I grow up, I
S1: want to be like George Sweeting. And so, truthfully, I
S1: would pray for you all the time. When you were
S1: pastoring the church up in the northwest suburbs, uh, I
S1: would think about you when you went to. You were
S1: president of a seminary and then you were president of
S1: Colorado Christian Talk. I would talk with your dad about
S1: you all the time. Pray for you. Thank you. So
S1: you had no idea that you I knew you, but.
S1: And in fact, he said, yeah. Yeah. Uh, Don's doing great.
S1: He would always give me really great reports. That was
S1: always wonderful. So anyway, I'm grateful to God that he
S1: had a small impact on my life because I didn't
S1: get to grow up with him. But, uh, great impact
S1: in your life. You could see it, uh, in, in your,
S1: your very face, your character, your being and your mom too,
S1: by the way, who and so let's just say it
S1: right here on the radio. You've lost both your parents
S1: in the last few weeks. Yeah. How tough?
S2: It's tough when you lose them both together. They were
S2: in their high 90s, but they were still living at home.
S2: In fact, dad was driving until May when he fell
S2: and broke his hip.
S1: Wow.
S2: So they were in pretty good shape for their age.
S2: But then things started getting complicated real fast, and. And
S2: they're gone.
S1: Yeah. I'm so sorry. What a tough time. But, you know,
S1: God has blessed you for so long to have them. Yeah.
S2: We're we're grateful. I'm going to.
S1: Tell you my my favorite story about your mom. When
S1: I went up to visit them just before the pandemic.
S1: And she. She was embarrassed because she didn't make the
S1: strudel that she. That she served me. Yeah. Because she
S1: was a great baker. And she always would make the
S1: strudel or whatever.
S2: His daughter. Yeah. Right.
S1: So I had. This is a good German bakery, though.
S1: She said you'll like it. It was good.
S2: You know, Proverbs says, blessed is the memory of the righteous,
S2: but I think it's revelation. It says, blessed are those
S2: who die in the Lord. So there's a double blessing.
S2: The memories are incredible. But to know that they died
S2: in the Lord there with him. And that's. That's good news.
S1: Yeah, yeah, well, I know it's tough for the whole family,
S1: but I'm grateful to God for their lives. And I
S1: know we don't grieve as those without hope. Right. That's right. So.
S1: That's right. Yeah. Well, okay. You were telling me something about, uh.
S1: What was that? When you went to Israel? You were
S1: taken to the place where Hamas assaulted the southern.
S2: So. So this about that this past trip, we were
S2: there in August, and it was really at the height
S2: of the Iranian threat. So you check into your hotel
S2: and they go here, here's your key, and here's where
S2: the shelter is. Oh, wow. And every night, you know,
S2: we were expecting attacks. So it's hard, hard to sleep.
S2: But our group took us down to the Gaza border.
S2: We had an IDF briefing, two IDF briefings of what
S2: was going on there. And they took us to the
S2: Nova site, the festival site, and we talked with survivors
S2: and some of the sites where the attacks took place
S2: and saw all the cars, you know, thousands of cars
S2: that were burned and bulleted. And it was so sobering.
S2: Michael and all around, too are signs like, if you
S2: if you're not near a shelter and you hear the
S2: sirens go off, you have, you know, like 10s to
S2: find a place to hide or lay on the ground
S2: and cover your head. So these people live with the
S2: everyday reality of missiles coming over, and they have for
S2: a long time. And Americans just can't seem to grasp this.
S1: Yeah, yeah. And yeah, that's why they think. And I'm
S1: amazed we'll be talking to an IDF soldier next hour. Uh,
S1: he's a moody student, and he left Moody and served
S1: in Gaza. Wow. During the war. At the beginning of it.
S1: And what what people are not aware of is Israel
S1: does so much to try and protect The civilians, Palestinian
S1: civilians and Hamas does everything they can to to use
S1: them as human shields and put them in harm's way. Yeah,
S1: it's it's heartbreaking.
S2: And that doesn't get in the mainstream media ever, because
S2: there's a bias against Israel in the mainstream media.
S1: Yeah. Yeah. My, my son served as an infantry soldier
S1: in the Israel Defense Forces after he graduated from Moody.
S1: You know, he went moved to Israel, became a citizen,
S1: got drafted. They said, well, you're older. He was 24.
S1: We'll put you in a desk job or something, maybe
S1: kitchen do something for six months so you can say
S1: you served. And he said, no, I didn't move to
S1: Israel to do that. And and he served as a
S1: machine gunner. Wow. And it was in a special anti-terrorist unit.
S1: And it was it was sobering for me. I didn't
S1: sleep for two years while he was doing that. But
S1: what what he told me most because they were specializing
S1: in close quarter urban combat, was all that they did
S1: to put themselves in harm's way to they had to
S1: learn to protect innocent Palestinian civilians. That was part of
S1: their training. Every day was to make sure that they
S1: protected the innocent as best they could, even if it
S1: put themselves in in harm's way. And so, uh, it
S1: is it is.
S2: I've heard stories that no army has ever gone to
S2: that length to protect the other civilians on the other
S2: side as the IDF.
S1: And then, of course, you're going to find, as in
S1: any army, there's going to be some soldier that does
S1: things wrong, you know, and.
S2: And mistakes made. Yeah.
S1: And that's what's going to hit the media, right. You know,
S1: that's the only thing not all the soldiers that may
S1: even die themselves to, to protect the innocent. Uh, anyway,
S1: so now you were mentioning what's going on in the
S1: south and the north. You've got Hezbollah, and I have
S1: relatives that live on the Lebanese border, and a lot
S1: of the people from that area have been evacuated. Jewish people,
S1: almost between 60 and 100,000 Jewish people from the border
S1: of Israel, uh, have been evacuated to keep them safe.
S1: So I keep checking with my cousins and saying, are
S1: you leaving? And they said, no, because we don't want
S1: Hezbollah to determine the borders of Israel. If we leave,
S1: then they're determining our borders. Yeah. And so, uh, when
S1: the when Hezbollah just recently started firing, well, they started
S1: firing rockets on October 8th, but recently they've been firing
S1: at Nahariya. Um, and one landed on a house about
S1: three houses down from my cousin and her husband. And
S1: it it destroyed that house. Yeah. Uh, and the other cousin,
S1: my this couple's daughter, his adult daughter, uh, when the
S1: Iranian missiles came over. Ballistic missiles. Some shrapnel of the
S1: missiles that were shot out of the sky landed on
S1: her home. Set it on fire. Yeah. And so?
S2: Well, I have them when I'm over there. I got
S2: an app on my phone called Red alert, and it
S2: tells you when missiles are coming in. And it was
S2: just because I wanted to know, you know, what was
S2: going on. And I kept it on my phone. And
S2: it's constant. They're constant little things. Missile fired, drone fired.
S2: And I can't remember the exact number, but it's way
S2: over 20,000 since October 7th, 20,000. You know, if that
S2: happened on our border, you know what we would do?
S1: Yeah, well, they wouldn't we wouldn't listen to Israel telling
S1: us to restrain ourselves.
S2: No. Yeah. Yeah, right. We would not accept Canada telling
S2: us to restrain herself like the current administration has been
S2: telling Israel. Nor would we reveal the plans of of
S2: the Israeli IDF to the world.
S1: It is it is heartbreaking. And I know that there
S1: have been civilians who have have suffered greatly in Gaza.
S1: My heart is broken for them. But I don't know
S1: what the options are. You know, in Romans 13 it
S1: says the government has been given a sword, right? Yeah,
S1: it's it's responsibility. It's a servant of God to protect
S1: the innocent and punish the wicked. Right. And the sword
S1: was the Roman assault weapon, right? You know, that was
S1: their M-16. Yeah. Uh, and so what that is saying
S1: is that even a civil government. Not necessarily, you know, theocracy,
S1: but a civil government has a responsibility to protect their people,
S1: even with with force like that. I don't know what
S1: other option there is. Well, no, they.
S2: Have to and we would want our government to do
S2: the same. But I think it's important to say, you know,
S2: we want a just peace in the Middle East, a
S2: peace where every party recognizes the right to exist of
S2: the other party. And this is the problem, because once
S2: Islam conquers a territory, they believe that it's theirs forever
S2: and that if somebody else is occupying it, they need
S2: to do jihad and and take, take them out. So
S2: they're until they recognize Israel's right to exist.
S1: Really recognize.
S2: It. The government of Israel has to defend itself. Yeah.
S1: Has to be that way. And I know the Israelis
S1: really want a peace, too. They don't know how it's
S1: going to happen, but they really long for it. Right.
S1: We're going to come back and talk a little bit more.
S1: That's Don Sweeting and Michael Ray Dolnick, and we'll be
S1: right back. You're listening to Open Line on Moody Radio.
S1: Some claim Paul is the key person who took the
S1: message of the Jewish Messiah. Jesus made it into something Gentile.
S1: But Paul is also the one who wrote. Brethren, my
S1: heart's desire for Israel is for their salvation. Romans ten
S1: one chosen people ministries. One of our underwriters wants us
S1: all to learn what drove Paul's passion for his own people.
S1: They're offering the book The Heart of the Apostle by
S1: Rich Freeman, free to all open line listeners. To get
S1: this exposition of Romans nine through 11, just go to
S1: our website, openline. radio.org. Scroll down to the link that
S1: says A free gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on
S1: that and you'll be taken to a page where you
S1: can sign up for your very own free copy of
S1: The Heart of the Apostle. Paul, welcome back to Open Line.
S1: I'm Michael Radonich. Joining me today for this special pre-recorded
S1: edition of Open Line is doctor Don Sweeting, chancellor of
S1: Colorado Christian University. Before anything else, I just want to
S1: say thank you so much for coming to the summit
S1: opposing anti-Semitism. Thank you so much for being here in
S1: the studio with me means so much to me. It
S1: really does.
S2: I'm delighted to be here and I admire you for
S2: putting this together and being a standout school in our
S2: country at this moment in history.
S1: Well, you know, I'm grateful that Mark job, we mentioned,
S1: he and I were talking yesterday about some of the
S1: anti-Semitic incidents, uh, in the Chicago area in just the
S1: last few days. And when he called me to talk
S1: about that, I thought, oh, no, he's going to be
S1: nervous about the summit coming up. And he said, uh,
S1: isn't this the perfect time for us to hold this
S1: summit to make a stand? And I thought, I love
S1: having Mark Jobe as our president. You know, he had
S1: had big shoes to fill. You know, George Sweeting held those,
S1: but he's doing a great job. And I appreciate that
S1: courage that he has. Well, and you.
S2: May catch flack for it. You may you may get
S2: who knows, you may get picketed. That's just part of
S2: the territory. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And it's okay. You know, uh, you know, we've
S1: been picketed before for other reasons, so that's not a problem. Uh,
S1: but here's the thing. Uh, I appreciate so much that
S1: you are building bridges with Jewish scholars and Jewish people.
S1: Like you mentioned, studying the Bible with Jewish scholars. You
S1: mentioned that earlier. Mhm. Uh, one of the things that
S1: people think is that somehow because we're talking about God
S1: has a plan for Israel, right? Uh, that's one misconception,
S1: they think, is that somehow we're saying that Jewish people
S1: don't need to, to believe in Jesus. Yeah. God has
S1: a special choice to the Jewish people. He's got a
S1: plan for the Jewish people nationally. There's a special, uh,
S1: I think, hand of God on the Jewish people. But
S1: Jewish people like everyone. We need to trust in Jesus,
S1: don't you think? Right. Yeah.
S2: Of course. Yeah. I had a fascinating conversation with a
S2: rabbi friend in Israel about a year and a half ago,
S2: and he was involved in discussions with evangelical leaders, and,
S2: and he and and I said, well, you know, evangelicals,
S2: we talk about Jesus. We believe he's the same. He said, well,
S2: you can't do that in these conversations. I said, well,
S2: I mean, that's who we are now. He had a
S2: he hears his point. He did have a good point.
S2: He said, so many Christians, they they, they don't realize
S2: what the past Christian anti-Semitism and the pain and the,
S2: the horrible things that have been done in the name
S2: of Christ. And he said they want to rush into
S2: things and they don't build relationships of trust and, and
S2: accept people for, for who they are. And I think
S2: it's a very valid point. It's it's you build bridges
S2: into people's lives. You love them because that's the right
S2: thing to do.
S1: And that's that bridge is the bridge for the gospel.
S1: You know, it is Jo Jo Aldrich. You say you
S1: love people until they ask you why. Yeah. That's right.
S1: And that's it. You know, the.
S2: Treasure is Jesus. Yeah. And and there's a lot of
S2: my Jewish friends say we don't think he's the Messiah.
S2: I said, where are you going to be really surprised
S2: when he comes and and you recognize that he is. But,
S2: you know, until that time we will love you. We
S2: will stand with you. And you know, we want you
S2: to know that Christ is our life. And and you
S2: need you need him.
S1: Yeah. Well, you know, I so appreciate you saying that
S1: about Jewish history because you're a church historian. Most people.
S1: That was your academic area, right? Right. Yeah. And, you know,
S1: most church historians aren't even hardly aware of that history.
S1: And yet Jewish people, we're so aware of it because
S1: it's so much of our history. You know, what the
S1: what the church and Christianity is, unfortunately. And today, though,
S1: there's a shift in the new anti-Semitism, which is it's
S1: less it's not so much Christian today, it's more Islamic
S1: or secular. Right, which is a big change. Uh, really
S1: kind of remarkable.
S2: If you think about this, the 20th century. So with
S2: the the Nazis, I mean, Hitler went after the Jews,
S2: but he started going after the Christians, too, as Niemöller
S2: points out. And then in the Soviet Union, the same
S2: thing happened. They went after the Jews, but then they
S2: also went after the Christians. Now here we are in
S2: 2024 and we're seeing this, this leftist ideology which which
S2: hates the Jews, but it also hates the Christians. You know,
S2: so we we're finding ourselves in the same boat and
S2: being in the same boat. We're looking at each other
S2: and we're getting to know each other and talking and
S2: having conversations that we have not had.
S1: And, you know, that's in my I live in a
S1: very Orthodox neighborhood, and they know Moody Bible Institute. I
S1: have a rabbi friend. In fact, uh, I knew his grandfather,
S1: who was also a rabbi, back in the day when
S1: I was a kid. And here here I am in
S1: Chicago and we met. We've become friends. And he recognizes
S1: that the true friends, the people that will care the
S1: most for the Jewish community at this time of just
S1: enlarged and growing and, uh, just exploding anti-Semitism. The people
S1: that will stand with the Jewish people are there are
S1: the followers of Jesus. They're speaking up. They're they're taking
S1: a stand. Uh, pastor in New York recently said at
S1: a at a rally for the Jewish people and opposing
S1: anti-Semitism when they come after the Jewish people. He wants
S1: the Jewish community to know that they'll have to come
S1: through our church. Amen. Yeah. We're going to be we're
S1: going to be there with you. And I think that
S1: that is a tremendous testimony.
S2: I'm glad to hear him say it, but I hope
S2: other churches will say it and they will believe it,
S2: as opposed to just sitting on the sidelines and pretending
S2: like this doesn't really concern me. It's not important. It
S2: is biblically important. Read the book of Esther. You know,
S2: start with the book of Esther, then read Psalm 83. Yeah.
S1: Right. Right.
S2: Then go to Romans 11. Yeah. And then put some
S2: Jeremiah in there, too, and tell me what you come
S2: up with. Yeah.
S1: Jeremiah 3135 through 37. If you can measure the heavens,
S1: search out the foundations of the deep. If you can
S1: make the sun, moon and stars stop shining, only then
S1: can the people, the Jewish people, be destroyed. God will
S1: protect the Jewish people and I, I believe that, but what?
S1: Who does he want to use to protect them? You
S1: and me. Schools like Moody and Colorado Christian University. I
S1: think that that is is truly what it's about. And
S1: by the way, I want to commend you. I you
S1: wrote to me and you said that Colorado Christian University
S1: has established a course in history of anti-Semitism. That's what
S1: a great school. I'm so great. And I think that
S1: was a kind of promoted. And of course, we've been
S1: teaching Jewish studies at Moody for 102 years. But I
S1: am so grateful that Colorado Christian, a student there, can
S1: take a course in history and its history as fact. Yeah. Uh,
S1: not not narratives, you know.
S2: Right. And there are actually a lot of courses, you know,
S2: they have to study the Old Testament, the Hebrew Scriptures, um,
S2: they will have opportunities to study. I mean, they have
S2: to study the Holocaust. They just have to. Oh, yeah.
S1: You know, the most important theological issue of the 20th century,
S1: I believe, is the Holocaust. And, you know, one of
S1: the things I've been doing now for 30 years at
S1: Moody is teaching a course called Holocaust. The Holocaust History
S1: and the Crisis of Evil.
S2: And I want to take that course.
S1: Well, you know, I'll give you the zoom link. I'm
S1: teaching it this semester. And, you know, it's such an
S1: important course. And what I'm amazed about and so grateful
S1: to moody students. It's always full. Yeah. You know, students
S1: not in Jewish studies are taking it as their theology
S1: elective or just squeezing it in as best they could.
S2: So I think there's going to be a an awakening
S2: in the future of the church to the importance of
S2: Israel and the Jewish people. It hasn't happened yet, but
S2: I think it's coming.
S1: Yeah, I agree with you. And I see it even
S1: now with the summit now, because people registered for this
S1: in really larger numbers than anyone thought. We expected this
S1: many people, some people who were talking to us said, no,
S1: I don't think you're going to get that many. But
S1: we did.
S2: Good news.
S1: Yeah. Thank you. Hey, thank you for being with me today, Don.
S1: I really appreciate it. And that was Don Sweeting, the
S1: chancellor of Colorado Christian University. I'm Michael Radonich. I'm so
S1: glad that you were here. And I want to say
S1: thanks to Chris Siegert for doing a great job as
S1: our engineer this hour. Stick around, because there's really an
S1: interesting program. We're going to talk about some people about
S1: the summit and why they're here. And I think you're
S1: going to enjoy it. That's the first hour of Open
S1: Line is done, but there's a second hour coming up,
S1: so don't miss it. Keep reading, keep reading, keep listening.
S1: We're going to talk about Israel and the Jewish people.
S1: Open line with Doctor Michael Radonich is a production of
S1: Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.