1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,320 S1: Hi, friends. This is Janet Partial. Thanks so much for 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,600 S1: downloading the broadcast and I hope what you hear will encourage, edify, equip, enlighten, 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,120 S1: and get you out there into the marketplace of ideas. 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,160 S1: But before you go, let me tell you about this 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,640 S1: month's truce tool. It's written by Robert Morgan, who is 6 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,800 S1: one of my very favorite authors. Through the story of 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,400 S1: Zachariah and Elizabeth, we are reminded that God remembers us 8 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,160 S1: and keeps his promises. And what Robert does is he 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,920 S1: does a deep dive into Scripture around the birth of 10 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,840 S1: the Messiah and helps us discover the glorious, victorious life 11 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,400 S1: that awaits us in Christ. And in this book, he 12 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,880 S1: reminds us that God has appointed you for this very 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,200 S1: special time, that God works grace into your grief, that 14 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,760 S1: God wants to use you, whatever your age. That God 15 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,920 S1: can eradicate fear from your heart, and that God desires 16 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,959 S1: your help in raising up a new generation to serve him. 17 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,519 S1: It is, in a word, a fabulous book, and I 18 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,240 S1: hope you'll want to get a copy. We're listener supported radio, 19 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,880 S1: and it's my way of saying thank you. When you 20 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,480 S1: give a financial gift of any amount to in the market. 21 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,840 S1: So to get your copy of God Hasn't Forgotten you, 22 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:04,230 S1: just call 877. Janet 58, that's 877. Janet 58. Give 23 00:01:04,230 --> 00:01:06,030 S1: a gift of any amount and we'll send you a copy. 24 00:01:06,030 --> 00:01:08,149 S1: Or you can do it online in the market with 25 00:01:08,150 --> 00:01:11,389 S1: Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's 26 00:01:11,390 --> 00:01:13,710 S1: the cover of the book. Make your donation and I'll 27 00:01:13,709 --> 00:01:16,510 S1: send you a copy of God Hasn't Forgotten You. You 28 00:01:16,510 --> 00:01:19,110 S1: also might want to prayerfully consider becoming a partial partner. 29 00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:21,350 S1: Those are our dear friends who give every single month 30 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:24,030 S1: at a level of their own choosing. You will always 31 00:01:24,030 --> 00:01:25,949 S1: get the truth tool for the month, but in addition 32 00:01:25,950 --> 00:01:28,550 S1: to that, you will get a weekly newsletter comprised of 33 00:01:28,550 --> 00:01:31,830 S1: my writing and an audio piece just for my partial partners. 34 00:01:31,830 --> 00:01:34,709 S1: So again, thank you in advance for financially supporting in 35 00:01:34,750 --> 00:01:37,990 S1: the market with Janet partial because it keeps us moving forward. 36 00:01:38,030 --> 00:01:41,149 S1: Eight seven, seven Janet 58. Or online at In the 37 00:01:41,190 --> 00:01:45,310 S1: market with Janet Parshall. Now please enjoy the broadcast. 38 00:01:46,709 --> 00:01:48,230 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 39 00:01:48,550 --> 00:01:50,870 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 40 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:52,990 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 41 00:01:53,310 --> 00:01:56,710 S1: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years. 42 00:01:56,710 --> 00:01:58,810 S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 43 00:01:59,530 --> 00:02:15,330 S1: The Bush tax is not. Hi friends, welcome to In 44 00:02:15,370 --> 00:02:17,930 S1: the market with Janet partial. So glad we're going to 45 00:02:17,930 --> 00:02:21,010 S1: spend the hour together. Well, here's what I know. Just 46 00:02:21,010 --> 00:02:23,970 S1: because it's part of the human experience. Our mailing address 47 00:02:24,010 --> 00:02:26,570 S1: is East of Eden. This is not as good as 48 00:02:26,570 --> 00:02:28,570 S1: it gets. And so I'm going to guess that the 49 00:02:28,570 --> 00:02:31,970 S1: people listening right now to this broadcast all across the country, 50 00:02:31,970 --> 00:02:34,810 S1: whether you're listening live or you're downloading this eventually as 51 00:02:34,810 --> 00:02:37,690 S1: a podcast, you are finding yourself as a follower of 52 00:02:37,690 --> 00:02:40,410 S1: Christ in one of three positions. You are either about 53 00:02:40,410 --> 00:02:43,489 S1: to walk into the refiner's fire, or you join me 54 00:02:43,490 --> 00:02:46,490 S1: today in the middle of the refiner's fire, or you've 55 00:02:46,490 --> 00:02:50,050 S1: just come out of the refiner's fire, a changed person 56 00:02:50,050 --> 00:02:51,850 S1: never wanting to go back again to who you were 57 00:02:51,850 --> 00:02:55,810 S1: before the Lord really conformed to transformed you through his 58 00:02:55,810 --> 00:02:59,000 S1: refining fire. And that's the rhythm of life, isn't it? 59 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,239 S1: Until finally we pass from this life to the next, 60 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,839 S1: where real life begins. This is not as good as 61 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,400 S1: it gets. Remember that as the headline for today, no 62 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,359 S1: matter what you're dealing with. But we're going to talk 63 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,240 S1: about something. And don't leave the room when I say it, okay? 64 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,000 S1: We're going to talk about suffering. Wait. Come back. Listen, 65 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,920 S1: it's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when. 66 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,160 S1: Those fiery trials come. We're all going to suffer. This 67 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,520 S1: is this is East of Eden. This is a sin sick, 68 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,680 S1: fallen world. And our constant battle is against the world, 69 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,040 S1: the flesh and the devil. And that means there's going 70 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,920 S1: to be trials and tears and tribulation. And so the 71 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,680 S1: question then is, and I know it's an oxymoronic kind 72 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,120 S1: of an idea, because the world certainly doesn't talk like this, 73 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,880 S1: but believers do if they're immersed in the word particularly, 74 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,880 S1: how do we suffer? Well, well, and suffering? How do 75 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,840 S1: you put those two words together in the same sentence 76 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,880 S1: or the same thought? We live in a postmodern world, 77 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,280 S1: a sensate culture, that all you do is avoid pain 78 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,320 S1: at any cost. You drink it, you swallow it, you 79 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,500 S1: look at it, You exercise it away. You practice immorality, 80 00:03:58,540 --> 00:04:01,900 S1: thinking that will take it away. The reality is, you 81 00:04:01,900 --> 00:04:05,220 S1: and I understand that suffering is a part of this experience. Now. 82 00:04:05,220 --> 00:04:07,860 S1: It raises a panoply of questions, doesn't it? If God 83 00:04:07,860 --> 00:04:10,020 S1: is good, then why fill in the blank? If God 84 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:12,620 S1: is good, why isn't he answering my question? Why isn't 85 00:04:12,620 --> 00:04:16,300 S1: he answering my pain? Why, why, why? That is the 86 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:18,820 S1: question for far too many of us. Every time we 87 00:04:18,820 --> 00:04:22,179 S1: enter into that season of suffering where we're asking why? 88 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:25,219 S1: I am thrilled that Chad Roberts is with us, because 89 00:04:25,220 --> 00:04:28,580 S1: he could have asked that question over and over and 90 00:04:28,580 --> 00:04:31,620 S1: over and over again. But he didn't. And because of 91 00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:35,220 S1: what God is doing in his life through his refiner's fire, 92 00:04:35,460 --> 00:04:39,100 S1: he now can teach us how we can see God 93 00:04:39,100 --> 00:04:42,100 S1: through the darkness. And there's a double entendre to that 94 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:44,340 S1: subtitle of his new book, blind Faith, and we'll get 95 00:04:44,339 --> 00:04:46,219 S1: to that in a moment. In the meantime, let me 96 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:47,980 S1: tell you who Chad is. He's the founder and lead 97 00:04:47,980 --> 00:04:52,020 S1: pastor of Preaching Christ Church. Don't you love the name 98 00:04:52,020 --> 00:04:54,409 S1: of that church? That's one thing I can be sure of. 99 00:04:54,450 --> 00:04:56,970 S1: If I walk into a church that says Preaching Christ, 100 00:04:56,970 --> 00:04:59,130 S1: they're holding out the word of life and they're holding 101 00:04:59,170 --> 00:05:01,370 S1: fast to that which is good, and amen to that. 102 00:05:01,410 --> 00:05:04,530 S1: He's the author and Bible teacher for awakened to Grace. 103 00:05:04,529 --> 00:05:08,170 S1: He's traveled through 40 countries sharing the gospel and training leaders. 104 00:05:08,370 --> 00:05:13,810 S1: And in 2018, his life changed dramatically. But he continues 105 00:05:13,810 --> 00:05:16,810 S1: his work as a pastor, fully sustained by the grace, 106 00:05:16,810 --> 00:05:19,090 S1: the power, and the love of Christ. Chad, what an 107 00:05:19,130 --> 00:05:20,849 S1: honor to have you with us. Thanks for being here. 108 00:05:21,410 --> 00:05:23,450 S5: I'm so happy to be with you. Thank you. 109 00:05:23,650 --> 00:05:25,529 S1: Oh, what a joy. All right. Tell me first about 110 00:05:25,529 --> 00:05:26,890 S1: your coming to faith in Christ. 111 00:05:27,850 --> 00:05:32,330 S5: Well, you know, interestingly enough, my parents, before I came along, 112 00:05:32,370 --> 00:05:35,810 S5: neither of my parents were believers. And then my mom 113 00:05:35,850 --> 00:05:40,410 S5: gets gloriously saved, but not my dad. And so by 114 00:05:40,410 --> 00:05:43,170 S5: the time I come along, you know, my mom is 115 00:05:43,170 --> 00:05:46,610 S5: growing in her faith, but my dad is just as 116 00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:50,570 S5: worldly as they come. They ended up staying together as 117 00:05:50,570 --> 00:05:54,080 S5: rocky as it was, but my dad finally came to 118 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,520 S5: faith the last 15 years of his life. So growing 119 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,920 S5: up in what I did, you know, God just gave 120 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,039 S5: me such a passion, such a heart for prodigals, for 121 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,640 S5: people who run from God. And, uh, it's just marked 122 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,280 S5: me forever. And. And I'm so glad that my dad 123 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,560 S5: right now, this very moment, is in heaven. 124 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,880 S1: Oh, amen to that, Chad. So we come to faith 125 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,719 S1: in Christ, and you see God working miraculously in the 126 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,560 S1: lives of your parents as well. When did you get 127 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,400 S1: a sense of what God was asking you to do 128 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:27,479 S1: with your life for him? 129 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,600 S5: I was extremely young. I had a family friend who 130 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,720 S5: just saw God's call on my life, and he approached 131 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,359 S5: my parents and said, um, I want Chad to spend 132 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:45,360 S5: the summer with me, uh, in former Communist Europe, in Romania, Ukraine, 133 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,119 S5: all those areas hungry. And I was only 12 years old. Wow. 134 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,460 S5: And my parents said, no way. But God dealt with 135 00:06:52,460 --> 00:06:55,340 S5: them and dealt with them. And finally, I went to 136 00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:59,820 S5: summers that I was both, uh, 12 and 13, and 137 00:06:59,820 --> 00:07:06,020 S5: it just marked my life forever with ministry. The gospel missions. 138 00:07:06,220 --> 00:07:08,740 S5: And it's all I've known since then. 139 00:07:08,779 --> 00:07:11,780 S1: Wow. So you grew up living what I was taught 140 00:07:11,780 --> 00:07:13,780 S1: as a child, which is wanting to be on fire 141 00:07:13,780 --> 00:07:15,500 S1: for Christ. And you certainly were. 142 00:07:16,180 --> 00:07:17,620 S5: Um, yes. 143 00:07:17,660 --> 00:07:21,460 S1: Wow. So God moves you. You're getting involved in ministry. 144 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:23,500 S1: Where was your first place of serving him? 145 00:07:25,380 --> 00:07:28,580 S5: Well, really, you know, just rooted in my home church. Uh, 146 00:07:28,580 --> 00:07:31,740 S5: they used me. You know, even though I was a kid, 147 00:07:31,940 --> 00:07:35,700 S5: they gave me ample opportunity and taught me as as 148 00:07:35,740 --> 00:07:38,860 S5: a young kid. God, you know, let no man despise 149 00:07:38,860 --> 00:07:41,260 S5: your youth. God wants to use you. And by the 150 00:07:41,260 --> 00:07:45,140 S5: time that I had reached my 20s. I knew God 151 00:07:45,140 --> 00:07:47,900 S5: was calling me to plant a church. And we planted 152 00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:52,050 S5: Preaching Christ Church and just continued on in global missions 153 00:07:52,050 --> 00:07:54,370 S5: everywhere that we had opportunity. 154 00:07:54,410 --> 00:07:57,010 S1: Wow. So how old is preaching Christ Church? 155 00:07:57,370 --> 00:07:59,650 S5: 25 years old this year. 156 00:08:00,050 --> 00:08:04,450 S1: Oh, unbelievable. It is. That's a quarter of a century 157 00:08:04,450 --> 00:08:07,410 S1: at the same church, which is absolutely fabulous. But that's 158 00:08:07,410 --> 00:08:09,410 S1: been the route, has it? Not because out of there, 159 00:08:09,410 --> 00:08:11,530 S1: you've still been involved in a lot of missions trips. 160 00:08:11,530 --> 00:08:13,650 S1: You still have very much of a heart for the 161 00:08:13,650 --> 00:08:14,850 S1: mission field, do you not? 162 00:08:15,090 --> 00:08:17,570 S5: Oh, you know, the Lord's been so good to us. 163 00:08:17,570 --> 00:08:20,450 S5: And when we started, we said, you know, we are 164 00:08:20,450 --> 00:08:24,610 S5: going to measure the pulse of this church by missions, 165 00:08:24,650 --> 00:08:28,810 S5: not by offerings, not by attendance, not by programming. We're 166 00:08:28,810 --> 00:08:32,290 S5: going to measure our success by missions. And to this day, 167 00:08:32,330 --> 00:08:37,410 S5: 25 years later, we completely measure our health, our pulse 168 00:08:37,570 --> 00:08:38,530 S5: by missions. 169 00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:42,690 S1: Wow. So philosophical slash theological question as we come up 170 00:08:42,690 --> 00:08:45,809 S1: to a break, is it me or do you sense 171 00:08:45,809 --> 00:08:48,250 S1: that in the church capital C universal, there has been 172 00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:50,829 S1: a kind of pulling back from missions. I grew up 173 00:08:50,830 --> 00:08:53,190 S1: in a very missions oriented church. We'd walk out of 174 00:08:53,190 --> 00:08:54,990 S1: the church under a sign that said, you're now entering 175 00:08:54,990 --> 00:08:57,870 S1: your mission field. Do you think that we're as passionate 176 00:08:57,870 --> 00:08:59,990 S1: about missions as we should be or have been in 177 00:08:59,990 --> 00:09:00,590 S1: the past? 178 00:09:01,470 --> 00:09:04,309 S5: Well, you know, the people that I hang around, they 179 00:09:04,309 --> 00:09:08,470 S5: certainly are. Maybe it's the company that we keep, I 180 00:09:08,470 --> 00:09:11,990 S5: don't know. But yeah, the people I'm around. Kingdom minded. 181 00:09:11,990 --> 00:09:14,950 S1: Amen. Hey. And may your tribe increase. Chad, let me 182 00:09:14,950 --> 00:09:16,270 S1: take a break, and we'll come back. And I'm going 183 00:09:16,309 --> 00:09:18,910 S1: to talk about what happened in 2018, because that was 184 00:09:18,910 --> 00:09:22,030 S1: a seminal point in your life. Chad Roberts is with us. 185 00:09:22,030 --> 00:09:26,709 S1: He's written a wonderful, tender, compassionate, insightful biblical book called 186 00:09:26,710 --> 00:09:31,469 S1: blind Faith Seeing God Through Darkness. What a descriptor of 187 00:09:31,470 --> 00:09:33,550 S1: what it's like to be in a season of suffering. 188 00:09:33,550 --> 00:09:36,150 S1: But for Chad, it has a whole lot deeper meaning 189 00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:38,189 S1: than that as well. He's a great Bible teacher, by 190 00:09:38,190 --> 00:09:40,189 S1: the way. You're going to love this book back after this. 191 00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:52,500 S1: The story of Zechariah and Elizabeth reminds us that God 192 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:55,580 S1: remembers us and keeps his promises. That's why I've chosen 193 00:09:55,580 --> 00:09:58,300 S1: God Hasn't Forgotten you as this month's truth tool, just 194 00:09:58,300 --> 00:10:00,939 S1: like he did through this ancient couple. God is working 195 00:10:00,940 --> 00:10:03,420 S1: in you and through you. As for your copy of 196 00:10:03,420 --> 00:10:05,620 S1: God Hasn't Forgotten You. When you give a gift of 197 00:10:05,620 --> 00:10:10,300 S1: any amount in the market, call 877. Janet 58. That's 877. 198 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:13,540 S1: Janet 58. Or go to in the market with Janet Dot. 199 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:18,220 S1: We're visiting with Chad Roberts. We get to spend the 200 00:10:18,220 --> 00:10:20,620 S1: entire hour with him. He's the founder and lead pastor 201 00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:24,020 S1: of Preaching Christ Church. He is the author and Bible 202 00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:26,699 S1: teacher for awakened to Grace. And he joins us with 203 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:30,780 S1: his book called blind Faith Seeing God Through Darkness. So, Chad, 204 00:10:30,780 --> 00:10:32,100 S1: I'm going to ask you to take us back. The 205 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:34,540 S1: reason I asked about always being mission minded, because this 206 00:10:34,540 --> 00:10:37,060 S1: story really starts with a mission trip to Central America. 207 00:10:37,059 --> 00:10:40,220 S1: And the year is 2018. And I laughed out loud 208 00:10:40,380 --> 00:10:42,700 S1: because you were invited to go look at a Christian 209 00:10:42,700 --> 00:10:45,140 S1: radio tower. I have an affinity. In case you hadn't 210 00:10:45,140 --> 00:10:47,810 S1: guessed what that was. So I want to hear what happened. 211 00:10:47,809 --> 00:10:49,610 S1: It sounds like a wonderful thing. First of all, thank 212 00:10:49,610 --> 00:10:51,650 S1: you for wanting to check a Christian radio tower. It's 213 00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:54,809 S1: about proclaiming the gospel. You decided to take this trip 214 00:10:54,809 --> 00:10:55,650 S1: and what happened? 215 00:10:56,290 --> 00:11:00,050 S5: Well, we've always loved Christian radio and always just valued 216 00:11:00,050 --> 00:11:03,170 S5: it so much. Well, so yeah, we're in Central America. 217 00:11:03,250 --> 00:11:06,530 S5: I'm there to train pastors and we decide to hike 218 00:11:06,570 --> 00:11:09,370 S5: this large mountain we go to. We finally get to 219 00:11:09,410 --> 00:11:12,570 S5: the top of a Christian radio tower. We're actually looking 220 00:11:12,570 --> 00:11:15,890 S5: over the border into Honduras, and all of a sudden, 221 00:11:15,890 --> 00:11:20,450 S5: blood vessels burst behind my eyes. It's like looking through 222 00:11:20,450 --> 00:11:23,890 S5: a spider web of blood. And of course, you know, 223 00:11:23,929 --> 00:11:26,850 S5: I panicked internally in the moment, but I didn't say anything. 224 00:11:26,850 --> 00:11:30,090 S5: I just excused myself. I came down off the mountain 225 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:32,610 S5: as quick as I could, and that by that evening 226 00:11:32,610 --> 00:11:37,810 S5: the blood had dissipated. But I knew something significant had happened. So, 227 00:11:37,850 --> 00:11:39,890 S5: you know, I get home, I go to the doctor 228 00:11:39,890 --> 00:11:43,130 S5: and they say, Chad, you have no choice but surgery 229 00:11:43,130 --> 00:11:47,510 S5: and two Failed surgeries. Later, I was blind. 230 00:11:48,030 --> 00:11:50,310 S1: Oh, Chad, you write about this in the book. I 231 00:11:50,309 --> 00:11:53,790 S1: want to linger here because I walked through this experience 232 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:55,830 S1: with you as much as I could as a third party, 233 00:11:55,870 --> 00:11:59,069 S1: stepping into your shoes. So this doctor says we can 234 00:11:59,070 --> 00:12:01,030 S1: take care of this. And he and he puts a 235 00:12:01,070 --> 00:12:03,510 S1: drop of water behind him to hold it. Sounds like 236 00:12:03,510 --> 00:12:05,990 S1: the retina in place that doesn't work. And then they 237 00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:07,950 S1: go back and they put in like a silicone mixture, 238 00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:10,190 S1: put it in there. That doesn't work. But in the 239 00:12:10,190 --> 00:12:14,310 S1: process it just totally eradicates the vision. Correct. So did 240 00:12:14,309 --> 00:12:17,470 S1: you have before the surgery? Could you see anything at all? 241 00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:22,429 S5: I could, and in in the in the final failed surgery, 242 00:12:22,429 --> 00:12:26,470 S5: the surgeon accidentally tore my retina. So that's why I 243 00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:30,750 S5: was immediately blind in my left. And then 15 months later, 244 00:12:30,990 --> 00:12:35,309 S5: I rapidly went blind in my right. My eyesight just 245 00:12:35,309 --> 00:12:38,990 S5: diminished week after week. So you can imagine, you know, 246 00:12:39,150 --> 00:12:42,390 S5: the pressure it put on my family, the the questions 247 00:12:42,390 --> 00:12:45,660 S5: around my church. I mean, how could I even preach 248 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:49,820 S5: if I can't see a Bible? And there were just 249 00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:52,620 S5: questions swirling about our lives. 250 00:12:52,980 --> 00:12:57,099 S1: Wow. When the other I went in that 15 month period, 251 00:12:57,100 --> 00:13:00,339 S1: was it attributable to the burst burst blood vessels that 252 00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:02,579 S1: were on the mountain when you were in Central America? 253 00:13:02,780 --> 00:13:05,219 S5: Yeah. You know, they tell me that so often. What 254 00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:07,940 S5: happens when I jump over to the next I. Yeah. 255 00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:10,260 S5: And so it's common that that. Yeah. 256 00:13:10,620 --> 00:13:14,020 S1: Wow. So. Oh, Chad, let me walk inside your shoes 257 00:13:14,020 --> 00:13:17,100 S1: a little bit here. How could you not be raging mad? 258 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:19,579 S1: First of all, when the blood vessels burst, you could 259 00:13:19,620 --> 00:13:22,260 S1: have said, why God. But then when you have a 260 00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:25,100 S1: mortal in a white coat telling you, oh, we've got this, 261 00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:26,820 S1: don't worry about it. Whatever you do, don't look it 262 00:13:26,820 --> 00:13:29,020 S1: up on the internet, he says to you. So you 263 00:13:29,020 --> 00:13:34,380 S1: avoid that wise counsel, I'm sure. So it doesn't work? 264 00:13:34,380 --> 00:13:36,819 S1: Not once, but it doesn't work twice. And then you 265 00:13:36,820 --> 00:13:41,620 S1: have this slow, steadfast erosion, eventual loss of vision over 266 00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:46,450 S1: 15 months. How do you not become enraged at God? 267 00:13:47,370 --> 00:13:49,929 S5: Well, you know, I can remember so clearly. There was 268 00:13:49,929 --> 00:13:52,570 S5: one night I was lying in bed and just my 269 00:13:52,570 --> 00:13:56,090 S5: vision was just nearly gone. And back in those days, 270 00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:58,130 S5: I don't know if they're still popular or not, but 271 00:13:58,130 --> 00:14:03,170 S5: staples would run these commercials with this big red easy button. 272 00:14:03,690 --> 00:14:06,890 S5: And I can remember just telling God that night it 273 00:14:06,890 --> 00:14:10,650 S5: was nearly midnight, and I said, God, I just need 274 00:14:10,650 --> 00:14:12,809 S5: an easy button to hit. If you would just let 275 00:14:12,809 --> 00:14:16,569 S5: me hit that button and just pause all of this 276 00:14:16,570 --> 00:14:19,570 S5: because it was all happening so fast. And I remember 277 00:14:19,570 --> 00:14:22,010 S5: the Lord just reminded me what Paul said in the 278 00:14:22,010 --> 00:14:26,610 S5: book of acts is through many tribulations that we enter 279 00:14:26,610 --> 00:14:30,250 S5: the kingdom and God just, you know, through the whole process, 280 00:14:30,250 --> 00:14:35,130 S5: God taught me he doesn't waste anything. He's not haphazard. 281 00:14:35,330 --> 00:14:39,610 S5: God is not coincidental. He he doesn't. He doesn't do 282 00:14:39,610 --> 00:14:44,030 S5: things accidentally. It all comes with purpose. 283 00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:48,950 S1: Could you sense this is a question so many ask 284 00:14:48,950 --> 00:14:51,510 S1: in the midst of suffering, which is God. I can't 285 00:14:51,510 --> 00:14:54,470 S1: see the purpose in all of this. And so how 286 00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:56,670 S1: do we get to the point? Because ultimately, I think 287 00:14:56,670 --> 00:14:58,990 S1: it's a question of surrender, isn't it, Chad? In fact, 288 00:14:58,990 --> 00:15:01,030 S1: in the margin of my Bible, in the very leaflet 289 00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:02,590 S1: in the front, I've said, God help me to trust 290 00:15:02,590 --> 00:15:05,190 S1: your heart when I can't see your hand for that 291 00:15:05,190 --> 00:15:07,990 S1: exact reason, if I can't. And then I think to myself, 292 00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:09,830 S1: what is man that thou art mindful of him? Who 293 00:15:09,830 --> 00:15:12,390 S1: is God to have to give me an explanation of 294 00:15:12,390 --> 00:15:14,390 S1: what he's doing in my life? If I love him 295 00:15:14,390 --> 00:15:15,990 S1: and I can trust him. And I know that nothing 296 00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:18,750 S1: happens to me that wasn't first vetted in the throne 297 00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:20,830 S1: room of heaven. Sit down and be quiet and just 298 00:15:20,830 --> 00:15:22,950 S1: see where he takes you on this. But boy, that 299 00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:24,910 S1: takes a lot of exercise and a whole lot of 300 00:15:24,910 --> 00:15:26,590 S1: learning how to surrender, does it not? 301 00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:29,270 S5: Well, I think Joe prayed one of the greatest prayers 302 00:15:29,270 --> 00:15:32,270 S5: in the entire Bible. He simply put his hand over 303 00:15:32,270 --> 00:15:35,550 S5: his mouth. And I think sometimes that's the response that 304 00:15:35,550 --> 00:15:38,830 S5: we need to give to God that we are. He's 305 00:15:38,940 --> 00:15:43,700 S5: the creator. We are the creation and job. It comforts me, 306 00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:46,020 S5: you know. We write about it in this in in 307 00:15:46,060 --> 00:15:49,020 S5: a chapter in the book called Where is God in 308 00:15:49,020 --> 00:15:51,340 S5: Times of Uncertainty, and it's on the life of job 309 00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:54,900 S5: and the suffering of job. And you remember in chapter 23, 310 00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:58,860 S5: in verse nine, job says, I looked for God. Uh, 311 00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:01,420 S5: he wasn't ahead of me. He wasn't behind me. I 312 00:16:01,420 --> 00:16:04,300 S5: looked to my right. I looked to my left. Job 313 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:08,700 S5: could not sense God. And so many believers are in 314 00:16:08,740 --> 00:16:12,340 S5: that place today where no matter how hard they pray, 315 00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:16,940 S5: no matter how hard they trust, they don't sense God. 316 00:16:16,940 --> 00:16:19,540 S5: But what did he say in verse ten? Job said, 317 00:16:19,540 --> 00:16:24,100 S5: but he knows the path that I take. And I 318 00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:26,620 S5: think that's what you're saying when you say, I may 319 00:16:26,620 --> 00:16:29,780 S5: not be able to, to, to see God's heart in 320 00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:33,140 S5: this matter or his hand, but but I trust his heart. 321 00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:35,420 S5: And God sees the path we're on. And what did 322 00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:38,280 S5: he say? When I've come through this, I'm going to 323 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,760 S5: be purer than gold. 324 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,440 S1: The refiner's fire? Absolutely. Wow. Let me take a break 325 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:46,960 S1: and come back to so many questions I want to 326 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,880 S1: ask you. I can tell you love the word Chad, 327 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,760 S1: because what you do in your book, blind Faith, is 328 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,320 S1: you do character studies of people who are suffering. So 329 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,760 S1: you write about Joseph and Jehoshaphat and you write about, um, oh, 330 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,000 S1: several other Bible characters job. And we walked through their 331 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,040 S1: experiences and every one of those stories which are really 332 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,920 S1: at their core stories of suffering, by the way, it's 333 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,959 S1: an attribute of God that we can take away. One 334 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,280 S1: of the reasons why we can trust him and this is, look, 335 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,120 S1: it's not easy to do this. This requires muscle memory. 336 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,800 S1: It requires time in the word. It requires an overwhelming 337 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,359 S1: amount of trust to be able to say, God, you're 338 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,840 S1: in charge. I'm not. You mark out my days and 339 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,320 S1: you make way. You make my way clear. Let me 340 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:54,790 S1: continue with Chad right after this. We're visiting with Chad Roberts, 341 00:17:54,790 --> 00:17:57,630 S1: who's the author of the book blind Faith Seeing God 342 00:17:57,630 --> 00:18:00,750 S1: Through the Darkness. And it really does tell us how 343 00:18:00,750 --> 00:18:05,390 S1: we suffer. Well, not a popular happy topic, but it's 344 00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:08,470 S1: the reality of not yet being home and living east 345 00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:10,510 S1: of Eden. And the Bible is filled with stories of 346 00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:13,430 S1: people who persevered in the midst of suffering and their 347 00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:15,469 S1: wonderful lessons for us, if they can do it. I mean, 348 00:18:15,470 --> 00:18:17,550 S1: just think about the scripture that invites us to join 349 00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:20,550 S1: in the fellowship of his suffering, not the number one 350 00:18:20,550 --> 00:18:23,070 S1: verse for Scripture memory for most people. And speaking of 351 00:18:23,070 --> 00:18:25,990 S1: Scripture memory, oh boy. Chad, two stories out of the 352 00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:28,150 S1: book that made me laugh out loud. One was, you 353 00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:30,230 S1: walked up to the pulpit at church and you turned 354 00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:32,710 S1: your back to the audience when they knew you couldn't see, 355 00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:36,180 S1: and they all gasped. And then you turned around and said, 356 00:18:36,180 --> 00:18:39,340 S1: just kidding, which I think it was great. It broke 357 00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:42,020 S1: the ice and nobody was concerned about it afterwards, correct? 358 00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:43,100 S5: Yes, yes. 359 00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:45,820 S1: What a wonderful story. The other thing, and this was 360 00:18:45,820 --> 00:18:49,699 S1: extremely impressive. You knew that the lights were slowly dimming. 361 00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:53,060 S1: You had that 15 months before you lost your sight. Totally. 362 00:18:53,220 --> 00:18:57,379 S1: To this day, you don't have notes. You have this 363 00:18:57,380 --> 00:19:01,699 S1: unbelievable ability to memorize scripture. And you talk about the 364 00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:03,460 S1: verse that says, out of the overflow of the heart, 365 00:19:03,460 --> 00:19:06,139 S1: the mouth speaks. It's all written in there because it 366 00:19:06,140 --> 00:19:07,900 S1: just comes out of you. Talk to me about that. 367 00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:12,940 S1: Were you just voraciously memorizing scripture before the blindness, or 368 00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:15,340 S1: was this always a hunger and a passion that you had? 369 00:19:15,380 --> 00:19:17,220 S1: I mean, if your church is called preaching Christ, there's 370 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:18,140 S1: a big hint there. 371 00:19:18,460 --> 00:19:21,420 S5: Yeah, no, I've always loved the word. And, you know, 372 00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:24,219 S5: it's amazing what you can do when you have to 373 00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:28,060 S5: do something. And I didn't have the ability to memorize 374 00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:30,340 S5: when I had eyesight the way that I do now. 375 00:19:30,380 --> 00:19:34,160 S5: I mean, it really is remarkable. But, you know, people 376 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,600 S5: will come up to me and they'll say, gosh, Chad, 377 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,240 S5: I wish I could remember Scripture the way that you do. 378 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,159 S5: And I actually had a lady tell me just the 379 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,880 S5: other day, she said, I feel so guilty because I 380 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,000 S5: did this Bible study a few days ago and I 381 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,200 S5: can't remember the scripture. And I remember asking her, just 382 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,360 S5: hit me in the moment. And I said, well, will 383 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,240 S5: you tell me what you ate for dinner? Uh, ten 384 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,200 S5: nights ago. And she said, I have no idea. And 385 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,080 S5: I said, well, that's not the point. The point is 386 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,280 S5: you ate. The point is that you sustained yourself. You 387 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,160 S5: receive those nutrients. And that's the point of the Bible. 388 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,000 S5: Just feed yourself every day, feed your soul daily, and 389 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,480 S5: you'll gain the, the, the strength and the benefit of that. 390 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,200 S1: Oh, I love that. I've never heard it put that 391 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,679 S1: way before. Chad. So any time in the word is 392 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,360 S1: what you're saying is beneficial, whether you can remember everything 393 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,400 S1: you learned the last time you were in a particular 394 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,200 S1: section or not. So how do you memorize scripture today? 395 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,950 S1: Do you listen to an auditory or an audio Bible. 396 00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:34,790 S1: And then that's how you memorize it. 397 00:20:34,830 --> 00:20:38,150 S5: Yeah. You know, I use all of the AI devices 398 00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:40,909 S5: and I love you version. And so, you know, if 399 00:20:40,910 --> 00:20:44,990 S5: I'm speaking on one particular verse, I'll memorize it phrase 400 00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:48,030 S5: for free sometimes. Now, you know, sometimes I, you know, 401 00:20:48,830 --> 00:20:51,469 S5: just the Lord directs me, I'll preach on an entire 402 00:20:51,470 --> 00:20:54,550 S5: chapter and I may not memorize it word for word, 403 00:20:54,550 --> 00:20:57,229 S5: but I, I mean, I know it frontward and backward 404 00:20:57,230 --> 00:20:59,710 S5: and I just go, I just go through it and 405 00:20:59,710 --> 00:21:00,429 S5: through it. 406 00:21:00,470 --> 00:21:04,430 S1: Wow. Okay. That raises an interesting question because if we're 407 00:21:05,070 --> 00:21:07,670 S1: if the challenge is to suffer well, and if we 408 00:21:07,670 --> 00:21:10,950 S1: accept the invitation to join in the fellowship of his suffering, 409 00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:13,750 S1: and we have the reality check that all of us 410 00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:16,270 S1: are going to suffer. It's a little bit and I'm 411 00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:18,350 S1: talking to you in the shadow of the nation's capital, 412 00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:21,510 S1: but we're in the Mid-Atlantic region and hurricanes are constant 413 00:21:21,550 --> 00:21:24,670 S1: happening here. We're taught how to be prepared for when 414 00:21:24,670 --> 00:21:27,790 S1: the storm comes. Isn't this a wonderful reason to start 415 00:21:27,790 --> 00:21:31,250 S1: hiding His word in our hearts? So when the storm comes. 416 00:21:31,450 --> 00:21:33,610 S1: I don't know about you, but that's that's where I 417 00:21:33,609 --> 00:21:35,610 S1: go to get the sustenance to be able to push 418 00:21:35,609 --> 00:21:36,450 S1: through the storm. 419 00:21:36,850 --> 00:21:40,970 S5: Absolutely. When we started laying this project out with LifeWay, 420 00:21:41,410 --> 00:21:45,729 S5: it was very important to me that everyone understands this 421 00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:50,290 S5: is not my story. This book, blind Faith, it. I 422 00:21:50,330 --> 00:21:53,010 S5: sprinkle some of my story through it. But see, my 423 00:21:53,010 --> 00:21:57,090 S5: story doesn't teach anyone how to suffer well. It's the 424 00:21:57,090 --> 00:22:02,010 S5: scriptures that teaches us how to suffer well. And it 425 00:22:02,010 --> 00:22:06,010 S5: was extremely important to me that this is a teaching 426 00:22:06,010 --> 00:22:09,890 S5: book that, as you so wonderfully said a few moments ago, 427 00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:14,730 S5: it's the characters of the scripture, and in it it 428 00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:17,930 S5: shows us the character of God. That's the only thing 429 00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:21,570 S5: that helps us suffer well, not our own determination or 430 00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:23,930 S5: our own strength or self-will. 431 00:22:24,850 --> 00:22:27,130 S1: What a brilliant point, Chad. And not only that, but 432 00:22:27,130 --> 00:22:30,040 S1: when we read the scriptures about these individuals. We see 433 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,240 S1: how God intervened, how he provided, how he comforted. And 434 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,400 S1: so reading that holistically isn't just the person's experience, it's 435 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,200 S1: what God did in, through and for that person in 436 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,720 S1: the midst of their suffering. And if he can do 437 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,479 S1: it for Joseph, he can do it for job. If 438 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,199 S1: he can do it for Jehoshaphat, he can do it 439 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,479 S1: for you as well. You wrote early on in the book, 440 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,600 S1: and I really underlined this, that one of the things 441 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,920 S1: when we're suffering is to learn to have self control. 442 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,479 S1: In fact, you call it the right response. Talk to 443 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,240 S1: me about that. 444 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,359 S5: Oh, yes. You know, that's one thing that I learned 445 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,920 S5: very quickly is I cannot control anything. I can't even 446 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,320 S5: control what my body does. I can't control the breakdown 447 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,680 S5: of my vision. I can't control the way other people act. 448 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,960 S5: I can't control what other people say. But there is 449 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:21,479 S5: one thing I can control, and that's my response. That's 450 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,560 S5: my reaction. So when Paul says in Philippians four, let 451 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,109 S5: your reasonableness be known to To everyone. What that word 452 00:23:29,109 --> 00:23:35,110 S5: means is that it's the right spiritually mature reaction, and 453 00:23:35,109 --> 00:23:38,909 S5: that's what the world needs to see when Christians suffer. 454 00:23:40,350 --> 00:23:42,030 S1: You know, we don't think about that in that verse 455 00:23:42,030 --> 00:23:45,310 S1: that often the reasonableness. I mean, I love that. And 456 00:23:45,310 --> 00:23:49,350 S1: when you contextualize that in terms of suffering, I thought 457 00:23:49,710 --> 00:23:52,270 S1: in other words, we it it's a message to the 458 00:23:52,270 --> 00:23:54,470 S1: world when we suffer. Well, does it not, that we're 459 00:23:54,830 --> 00:23:57,750 S1: we're not in control, but he is. And we have 460 00:23:57,750 --> 00:24:00,070 S1: calm in the midst of a storm. I mean, that 461 00:24:00,070 --> 00:24:04,630 S1: has to translate, if done well powerfully to an unsaved world, 462 00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:05,310 S1: does it not? 463 00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:06,630 S5: Absolutely. 464 00:24:07,310 --> 00:24:09,709 S1: Well, when we come back, I want to look at Joseph. 465 00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:11,790 S1: You write about so many wonderful people in the scriptures. 466 00:24:11,790 --> 00:24:13,590 S1: But take a look at Joseph. You know, we we 467 00:24:13,630 --> 00:24:15,830 S1: think of him as a Broadway musical and his coat 468 00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:18,790 S1: of many colors and all of those attributes. But at core, 469 00:24:19,109 --> 00:24:20,909 S1: the more I go back and study his story, there's 470 00:24:20,910 --> 00:24:23,670 S1: a whole boatload of suffering that goes on in his life. 471 00:24:23,670 --> 00:24:25,870 S1: And you picked up on that in your book, blind Faith. 472 00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:27,970 S1: Chad Roberts is with us, by the way. I've got 473 00:24:27,970 --> 00:24:32,490 S1: a link to awakened to Grace com. Uh, that's his ministry, 474 00:24:32,490 --> 00:24:34,610 S1: by the way. Also, he's the founder and lead pastor 475 00:24:34,609 --> 00:24:37,410 S1: of Preaching Christ Church and the author of blind Faith 476 00:24:37,609 --> 00:24:40,689 S1: Seeing God Through Darkness. More with Chad Roberts right after this. 477 00:25:01,010 --> 00:25:03,290 S1: As a Christian, how do you digest the cultural issues 478 00:25:03,290 --> 00:25:05,330 S1: of our day and in the market? We believe that 479 00:25:05,330 --> 00:25:08,449 S1: understanding happens when we bring biblical truth to expose the 480 00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:10,570 S1: darkness in our world. That's what we do every day 481 00:25:10,570 --> 00:25:12,810 S1: and in the market. May I ask you to join us? 482 00:25:12,810 --> 00:25:15,410 S1: When you become a partial partner, your monthly gift ensures 483 00:25:15,410 --> 00:25:18,650 S1: this daily program continues. Become a partial partner today by 484 00:25:18,650 --> 00:25:21,050 S1: calling eight seven, seven Janet 58 or go to in 485 00:25:21,090 --> 00:25:26,880 S1: the market with Janet Parshall. We're spending the hour with 486 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,720 S1: Chad Roberts, who's the founder and lead pastor of Preaching 487 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,120 S1: Christ Church. He's the author and Bible teacher for awakened 488 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,919 S1: to Grace, and he's traveled through 40 countries sharing the 489 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,240 S1: gospel and training leaders all around the globe. So he 490 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,560 S1: suffered blindness in 2018. That has not stopped him at all. 491 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,960 S1: He continues to serve the Lord with passion. He is 492 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,440 S1: fully sustained, as he says, by the grace of God. 493 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,000 S1: And he writes with eloquence about his journey of suffering. 494 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,640 S1: But as he said, and I hope you picked up 495 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,240 S1: on his humility on this, and very impressive, but very 496 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,760 S1: spot on. He sprinkles his story throughout the book, his word, 497 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,080 S1: and he's absolutely right, because he wants us to hear 498 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,960 S1: the stories of the saints of old who endured suffering. 499 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,840 S1: And in the Word of God. First of all, it'll 500 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,280 S1: drive you to the Word of God. Second of all, 501 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,000 S1: you'll be able to see how God sustained and comforted 502 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,359 S1: and provided for people who were suffering, suffering just as 503 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,040 S1: he will for us. So Chad's story is a launching pad, 504 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,220 S1: and he. Not only that, he speaks as one who 505 00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:28,980 S1: has learned how to suffer well. And I don't know 506 00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:30,659 S1: about you, but we need to listen to people who 507 00:26:30,660 --> 00:26:33,179 S1: have had that experience so we too can honor the 508 00:26:33,180 --> 00:26:36,859 S1: Lord by suffering well. Blind faith, seeing God through darkness. 509 00:26:37,020 --> 00:26:39,540 S1: So one of the many characters that you use as 510 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:42,619 S1: a teaching model for suffering is the story of Joseph. 511 00:26:42,619 --> 00:26:45,500 S1: And I wasn't being facetious before Chad because I fall 512 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:47,500 S1: into this group. You know, they turn a Broadway musical 513 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,139 S1: into Joseph and his coat of many colors, and we 514 00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:53,900 S1: see cartoons made out of him. Uh, that Disney puts out. 515 00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:55,659 S1: And it's real easy to see all of that. And 516 00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:57,980 S1: then you start looking at time and you go, whoa, whoa, wait, 517 00:26:58,220 --> 00:27:00,260 S1: how long was he in that cistern? How old was 518 00:27:00,260 --> 00:27:02,540 S1: he when he was taken into slavery? How many years 519 00:27:02,540 --> 00:27:05,180 S1: did he spend in a dungeon? The Bible says not 520 00:27:05,180 --> 00:27:09,820 S1: prison dungeon before being falsely accused. You talk about fertile 521 00:27:09,820 --> 00:27:13,420 S1: grounds for bad attitude. That was not Joseph's response. Talk 522 00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:14,220 S1: to me about him. 523 00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:18,980 S5: I love the story of Joseph beginning to end. And 524 00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:21,139 S5: you know, when I think about Joseph, I think how 525 00:27:21,140 --> 00:27:25,010 S5: we have the benefit of knowing the end of his story. 526 00:27:25,410 --> 00:27:29,250 S5: But he didn't. And my favorite phrase in the life 527 00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:34,170 S5: of Joseph, remember after he interpreted the dreams and he 528 00:27:34,170 --> 00:27:37,530 S5: felt so confident that, you know, he was going to 529 00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:40,169 S5: be released from prison. I mean, you know, Pharaoh was 530 00:27:40,170 --> 00:27:44,609 S5: going to hear his story. The scripture simply says, two 531 00:27:45,010 --> 00:27:49,170 S5: whole years. I just I you know, I think that 532 00:27:49,170 --> 00:27:52,490 S5: was the longest stretch. I think that was longer than 533 00:27:52,530 --> 00:27:56,130 S5: everything that had happened to him previously. But what that 534 00:27:56,130 --> 00:27:59,050 S5: was that two whole years, that was the making of 535 00:27:59,050 --> 00:28:01,970 S5: a godly man. And it wasn't wasted time. 536 00:28:02,210 --> 00:28:05,770 S1: Yeah. Well, and you think about it, 14 years in prison, Chad, 537 00:28:06,010 --> 00:28:09,250 S1: he and he yes, he becomes someone who interprets dreams 538 00:28:09,369 --> 00:28:11,250 S1: for a cupbearer and a baker, and that's going to 539 00:28:11,250 --> 00:28:14,050 S1: have a profound impact on his future once he's lifted 540 00:28:14,050 --> 00:28:17,890 S1: out of prison. But when you think about being falsely accused, 541 00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:21,280 S1: I mean, we can relate to that in 21st century America. 542 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,639 S1: I think we see crime shows on the air all 543 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,560 S1: the time. Somebody who's suffered an injustice and being imprisoned 544 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,920 S1: for something they didn't do wrong, and you really come 545 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,679 S1: out of there with a freedom of choice of your attitude. 546 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,359 S1: I'll never forget Bonhoeffer writing when he talked about the 547 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,800 S1: cost of discipleship, that even though he was being held 548 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,080 S1: by the Germans, they could take everything away from him, 549 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,280 S1: his food, his family, all of the creature comforts, but 550 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,040 S1: they could never take away, he said his freedom to 551 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,920 S1: choose the right attitude. How important is that for us 552 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:47,520 S1: as saints? 553 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,800 S5: Oh, it's everything. Our perspective is everything. And that's what 554 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,760 S5: Satan wants to skew. That's what he wants to twist. 555 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,240 S5: That's what he wants to to sour in our life. 556 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,760 S5: But know when we have the right attitude and our 557 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,280 S5: view is right. And that's what gives us that as Scripture. 558 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,480 S5: People like Joseph know we can face anything. I called 559 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,400 S5: that chapter, The King's Prison. Yes, because he wasn't in 560 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,040 S5: an ordinary place. And, you know, I loved that chapter 561 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,260 S5: so much because I talk about my own experience visiting 562 00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:26,060 S5: an Egyptian prison, which was so fascinating on its own, 563 00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:30,340 S5: but it nothing like, as you described it, the dungeon 564 00:29:30,340 --> 00:29:33,820 S5: that Joseph would have been in in that day. Yeah. 565 00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:36,020 S1: And yet didn't have a bad attitude. I can't tell 566 00:29:36,020 --> 00:29:38,860 S1: you how convicted I am about this. Speaking about dreams, 567 00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:40,500 S1: I'm going to go back to Joseph in a minute. 568 00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:43,180 S1: But and dreams are obviously very much a part of 569 00:29:43,180 --> 00:29:47,860 S1: Joseph's story, but you wrote with such tenderness and transparency 570 00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:50,740 S1: about how you dream at night in Technicolor, and then 571 00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:53,620 S1: you wake in the morning to the darkness, and boy, 572 00:29:53,660 --> 00:29:59,460 S1: that just hit me right between my ribs because I thought, wow, again, Satan, 573 00:29:59,460 --> 00:30:01,580 S1: before you even put your feet on the bedroom floor, 574 00:30:01,580 --> 00:30:04,940 S1: you could say, oh, I'm so mad. And right before 575 00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:08,140 S1: you even get started and kick your slippers off, Chad, 576 00:30:08,180 --> 00:30:10,460 S1: you have to start choosing the right attitude. 577 00:30:10,460 --> 00:30:13,979 S5: That's right. That's exactly right. You know, no one told 578 00:30:13,980 --> 00:30:17,900 S5: me going from a sighted man to a blind man 579 00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:21,370 S5: that I would still dream in vivid color and I 580 00:30:21,410 --> 00:30:23,930 S5: could see. I mean, I love to go to bed 581 00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:26,730 S5: because I can see everything I tell my kids. I'm 582 00:30:26,730 --> 00:30:29,530 S5: only blind half the time. The other time I'm dreaming. 583 00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:33,370 S5: But when I would wake up, especially in those early days, 584 00:30:33,770 --> 00:30:38,770 S5: to pitch blackness, and no matter what I did, nothing changed. 585 00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:42,210 S5: Days like that, my emotions would have kept me in bed, 586 00:30:42,490 --> 00:30:44,250 S5: but I would. I would set up on the edge 587 00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:46,010 S5: of my bed. I've done this more times than I 588 00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:48,890 S5: can count, and I would say this is the day 589 00:30:49,410 --> 00:30:52,970 S5: that the Lord has made. I will rejoice and I 590 00:30:52,970 --> 00:30:55,450 S5: will be glad in it. And I'd go on with 591 00:30:55,450 --> 00:30:57,770 S5: my day. And by the time the Lord and I 592 00:30:57,770 --> 00:31:00,530 S5: had had my coffee, well, we were having a great day. 593 00:31:02,770 --> 00:31:03,850 S1: I love that. 594 00:31:04,010 --> 00:31:08,090 S5: But I had to learn. Joy is not a feeling. 595 00:31:08,410 --> 00:31:12,050 S5: It's a choice. Oh, James one two says, count it 596 00:31:12,050 --> 00:31:16,570 S5: all joy when you encounter trials of various kinds. 597 00:31:16,990 --> 00:31:19,150 S1: Boy, can I tell you how that gets driven home 598 00:31:19,150 --> 00:31:22,110 S1: to me. Paul writing from prison to the church at 599 00:31:22,110 --> 00:31:25,310 S1: Philippi and says, this is Big Brother Paul. I have 600 00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:28,510 S1: learned in whatsoever state I'm in to be content. It 601 00:31:28,510 --> 00:31:30,790 S1: didn't come naturally. He had to make that choice. And 602 00:31:30,790 --> 00:31:33,110 S1: if Paul had to work at it, so do we. 603 00:31:33,470 --> 00:31:35,990 S1: And it's an exercise of the will. You know, sometimes 604 00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:37,950 S1: free will drives me bonkers because it gets me into 605 00:31:37,950 --> 00:31:40,230 S1: trouble with sin. But there are other times when I'm 606 00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:42,950 S1: so grateful for free will, because I can choose to 607 00:31:42,990 --> 00:31:45,590 S1: have that attitude of gratitude. And I have to tell you, Chad, 608 00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:47,670 S1: I laughed out loud. That is the verse I say 609 00:31:47,670 --> 00:31:49,550 S1: every day when I get up in the morning, every 610 00:31:49,550 --> 00:31:52,470 S1: single day, the fact that I'm breathing. He's he's got 611 00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:54,790 S1: me here for a purpose. One more day. So this 612 00:31:54,790 --> 00:31:56,670 S1: is the day the Lord has made. Let me rejoice 613 00:31:56,670 --> 00:31:57,670 S1: and be glad in it. 614 00:31:57,950 --> 00:31:59,550 S5: Well, I had to learn. I'm not going to. I'm 615 00:31:59,590 --> 00:32:03,550 S5: not going to let emotions lead the way. I'm going 616 00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:06,510 S5: to I'm going to let my will lead the way. Why? 617 00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:11,270 S5: Because my will is saturated in the Word of God 618 00:32:11,390 --> 00:32:13,990 S5: and that's what's leading the way for me. 619 00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:16,500 S1: Wow. Let me go back to our friend Joseph. You 620 00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:19,140 S1: said there are three principles. One, what the Lord was 621 00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:23,340 S1: with Joseph. Number two. Second principle look for God's providence. 622 00:32:23,340 --> 00:32:26,860 S1: And then the third principle is serve others. Those are 623 00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:29,900 S1: fascinating takeaways from the life of Joseph. Talk to me 624 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:30,580 S1: about that. 625 00:32:31,540 --> 00:32:36,460 S5: Well, again, I just don't know if Joseph being in 626 00:32:36,460 --> 00:32:39,140 S5: the situation he was in, not knowing the end of 627 00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:43,580 S5: his story, having no promises out of God's Word the 628 00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:47,340 S5: way that we do. Did he feel God with him? 629 00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:50,780 S5: But yet over and over the scripture says, the Lord 630 00:32:50,780 --> 00:32:55,180 S5: was with him. And I think sometimes we base everything 631 00:32:55,180 --> 00:32:58,780 S5: on how we feel. No, we have to base our 632 00:32:58,780 --> 00:33:01,900 S5: faith on what we know from the word. And I 633 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:05,140 S5: may not feel God with me in a particular moment. 634 00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:08,380 S5: I may not feel God with me in a certain 635 00:33:08,420 --> 00:33:12,060 S5: situation or even a season. But that doesn't take away 636 00:33:12,060 --> 00:33:16,370 S5: the fact he will never leave us nor forsake us. MM. 637 00:33:16,650 --> 00:33:20,250 S1: So good, so good. How did Joseph look for God's providence? 638 00:33:22,290 --> 00:33:27,530 S5: Well, you know, I remember writing that portion of the book. 639 00:33:27,570 --> 00:33:30,850 S5: And I remember telling such a wonderful story about President 640 00:33:30,850 --> 00:33:35,250 S5: Abraham Lincoln. And I love that story so much of Providence. 641 00:33:35,370 --> 00:33:38,890 S5: And it's there. We just have to look for it. 642 00:33:38,890 --> 00:33:41,770 S5: And I think I think with Joseph and and all 643 00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:45,370 S5: that he suffered and all that he went through, I 644 00:33:45,370 --> 00:33:48,370 S5: think he did. In the end. I think he knew 645 00:33:48,370 --> 00:33:50,810 S5: God was with him. I think there were times he 646 00:33:50,810 --> 00:33:53,570 S5: didn't feel it, but I think he did know it. 647 00:33:53,890 --> 00:33:54,850 S6: MM. Wow. 648 00:33:55,410 --> 00:33:57,930 S1: And isn't it interesting, the last thing most of us 649 00:33:57,930 --> 00:34:00,690 S1: would think about when we're under the crushing pain of 650 00:34:00,690 --> 00:34:04,250 S1: suffering is to serve others. I love this talk to 651 00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:07,130 S1: me about this because if, again, you talk about an 652 00:34:07,170 --> 00:34:09,850 S1: attitude of gratitude and C.S. Lewis said it beautifully, he 653 00:34:09,850 --> 00:34:12,290 S1: said the will has to precede the emotions. And this 654 00:34:12,290 --> 00:34:14,350 S1: is a perfect example of this. So how do you 655 00:34:14,390 --> 00:34:15,509 S1: serve when you're suffering? 656 00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:17,790 S5: Well, I had to learn this. You know, I don't 657 00:34:17,790 --> 00:34:22,350 S5: know why, but Saturday nights were my worst days. And, um, 658 00:34:22,390 --> 00:34:24,870 S5: and I just struggled the most, you know, through the week. 659 00:34:24,870 --> 00:34:27,750 S5: I'm here at the church. I'm leading the staff. I've, 660 00:34:27,790 --> 00:34:32,550 S5: you know, we're, I'm always busy, but Saturdays, it wasn't 661 00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:36,029 S5: like that. And Saturdays I struggled. Well, you know what 662 00:34:36,030 --> 00:34:39,270 S5: we started doing? My church started serving the homeless. And 663 00:34:39,310 --> 00:34:43,230 S5: we would take a home cooked meal every Saturday to 664 00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:46,070 S5: the homeless shelter one of them here in our town. 665 00:34:46,390 --> 00:34:51,310 S5: And the more I began serving, the happier I was. 666 00:34:51,630 --> 00:34:55,150 S5: And I just noticed how my entire attitude changed. And, 667 00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:57,910 S5: you know, that's what Joseph did. Joseph could have heard 668 00:34:57,910 --> 00:35:01,710 S5: these men's dreams and Joseph could have had the attitude, well, 669 00:35:01,710 --> 00:35:04,470 S5: you know what, God? You want me to interpret dreams? 670 00:35:04,469 --> 00:35:07,350 S5: Get me out of here. You know, change my circumstance, 671 00:35:07,390 --> 00:35:10,710 S5: get me out of this prison. But no, he served 672 00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:14,500 S5: right where he was. And that's the choice we have 673 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:16,900 S5: to make in our sufferings. 674 00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:20,060 S1: You know, that's such an important point, Chad, because I 675 00:35:20,060 --> 00:35:21,340 S1: think for a lot of us, when we're in the 676 00:35:21,340 --> 00:35:25,299 S1: midst of suffering, we're sort of marginalized that are suffering. 677 00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:27,859 S1: And there's some truth to this, that suffering does tend 678 00:35:27,860 --> 00:35:31,580 S1: to isolate because you can have a wonderfully supportive spouse. 679 00:35:31,580 --> 00:35:33,739 S1: But if you're struggling with something, you can have the 680 00:35:33,739 --> 00:35:37,580 S1: prayer support, the physical presence of that person. But ultimately 681 00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:40,940 S1: you're in the refiner's fire all by yourself. And that's 682 00:35:40,940 --> 00:35:44,180 S1: a toughie because you think I'm isolated. My suffering puts 683 00:35:44,180 --> 00:35:46,540 S1: me in a place of isolation, or I've allowed myself 684 00:35:46,540 --> 00:35:49,060 S1: to go into a place of isolation. But you turn 685 00:35:49,060 --> 00:35:51,219 S1: that around and you start feeding the homeless and you 686 00:35:51,219 --> 00:35:53,420 S1: just break through that barrier, do you not? 687 00:35:53,780 --> 00:35:55,979 S5: Well, you know, in the book we also talk about 688 00:35:55,980 --> 00:35:59,460 S5: the difference between isolation and solitude. 689 00:35:59,500 --> 00:35:59,940 S1: Yes. 690 00:35:59,980 --> 00:36:03,460 S5: Jesus went into solitude. And we said in the book, 691 00:36:03,460 --> 00:36:08,020 S5: solitude is when you are alone with God. Isolation is 692 00:36:08,020 --> 00:36:10,569 S5: when you are alone with you. And that's not a 693 00:36:10,570 --> 00:36:11,770 S5: healthy space. 694 00:36:12,010 --> 00:36:15,649 S1: Yeah. Such wisdom in this book. I just love it. 695 00:36:15,650 --> 00:36:17,770 S1: And I, you know, the reality is, as I said 696 00:36:17,810 --> 00:36:19,810 S1: at the top of the hour, it's not a favorite 697 00:36:19,850 --> 00:36:23,290 S1: topic of anybody's, but it's a reality. Not when, not if, 698 00:36:23,290 --> 00:36:26,730 S1: but when these fiery trials come in this life, you 699 00:36:26,730 --> 00:36:29,730 S1: will have tribulation. It's a guaranteed, the Lord tells us. 700 00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:31,690 S1: So we have to get over the shock and awe, 701 00:36:31,730 --> 00:36:34,969 S1: realize it's going to happen and get prepared now. And 702 00:36:34,969 --> 00:36:36,330 S1: one of the ways you can do that, and this 703 00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:39,730 S1: is why Chad is such an excellent teacher. Start studying 704 00:36:39,730 --> 00:36:42,210 S1: the characters of the Bible who suffered, which, by the way, 705 00:36:42,210 --> 00:36:45,129 S1: is an overwhelming number of people in the scriptures. And 706 00:36:45,130 --> 00:36:47,650 S1: you can learn how God was there, how he provided 707 00:36:47,650 --> 00:36:49,610 S1: how he met their needs, and he'll do the same 708 00:36:49,610 --> 00:36:52,930 S1: for you. Blind faith. Seeing God through darkness. Chad's new book, 709 00:36:52,930 --> 00:37:05,250 S1: Back After this. Blind Faith Seeing God Through Darkness, that's 710 00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:07,770 S1: a new book by Chad Roberts. He's the founder and 711 00:37:07,770 --> 00:37:11,750 S1: lead pastor of Preaching Christ Church. He's also the author 712 00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:15,230 S1: and Bible teacher for awakened to Grace. He's traveled around 713 00:37:15,230 --> 00:37:17,069 S1: the globe sharing the good news of the Gospel of 714 00:37:17,070 --> 00:37:20,229 S1: Jesus Christ and training up leaders. And this is a 715 00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:24,830 S1: wonderful study in suffering. And yes, he quotes sprinkles his 716 00:37:24,830 --> 00:37:27,390 S1: story throughout, but basically he wants us to get into 717 00:37:27,390 --> 00:37:30,390 S1: the word and read the stories again of those who suffered. 718 00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:32,910 S1: And there's no shortage of those stories in Scripture by 719 00:37:32,910 --> 00:37:35,990 S1: any stretch of the imagination. So, Chad, if I can, 720 00:37:36,190 --> 00:37:39,830 S1: I was there's such wisdom. Um, and this isn't just 721 00:37:39,830 --> 00:37:42,270 S1: empty flattery, I have to tell you, you really tackled 722 00:37:42,270 --> 00:37:46,509 S1: this subject compassionately through the first person narrative of what 723 00:37:46,510 --> 00:37:48,270 S1: you've had to done. And there's just something about a 724 00:37:48,270 --> 00:37:51,310 S1: wounded comforter that impacts us so well. And you certainly 725 00:37:51,310 --> 00:37:54,350 S1: fall into that category. But your understanding and your application 726 00:37:54,350 --> 00:37:57,150 S1: of the word is wonderful. Um, I want to talk 727 00:37:57,150 --> 00:37:59,910 S1: about time because you talk about the fact that when 728 00:37:59,910 --> 00:38:03,190 S1: you had to learn patience, that, uh, you had to 729 00:38:03,190 --> 00:38:04,950 S1: wait for people to pick you up because you couldn't 730 00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:07,700 S1: drive anymore and that you knew that all of this 731 00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:10,620 S1: was about bringing you to maturity and completing you. The 732 00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:12,060 S1: good thing which he has begun, if I can put 733 00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:15,899 S1: it in Scripture. But you also, I love the phrase 734 00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:19,500 S1: you talk about us being Amazon Prime Christians. Talk to 735 00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:21,740 S1: me about this because I think in a world where 736 00:38:22,140 --> 00:38:24,779 S1: data tells us now you're lucky if you spend 15 737 00:38:24,780 --> 00:38:27,980 S1: seconds on a website. You can't flip through your smartphone 738 00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:30,140 S1: fast enough, and you're lucky if you get a minute 739 00:38:30,140 --> 00:38:32,700 S1: when you're watching television before you hit the remote control. 740 00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:36,580 S1: Sitting and waiting is antithetical to the American pace of 741 00:38:36,580 --> 00:38:39,379 S1: life right now, and yet it is crucial in our 742 00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:41,260 S1: maturing in him. Talk to me about this. 743 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:46,580 S5: Absolutely. You know, it doesn't matter what changes in our society. 744 00:38:46,580 --> 00:38:52,020 S5: It doesn't matter what technology changes. Patience is still a 745 00:38:52,020 --> 00:38:55,100 S5: spiritual fruit. And I had to learn that. I had 746 00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:57,980 S5: to learn it in ways I never thought that I would. 747 00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:00,620 S5: You know, as you mentioned, I say in the book, 748 00:39:00,620 --> 00:39:03,660 S5: when when my life came to a grinding halt, you know, 749 00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:07,040 S5: I couldn't just jump in my car and zipped through town. 750 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,440 S5: I couldn't just jump on an airplane and go to 751 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,920 S5: another country like I was so accustomed to. Now I'm 752 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,200 S5: standing in my driveway with a backpack, feeling like a 753 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,279 S5: kid waiting on someone to pick me up to take 754 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,920 S5: me to the church office. It was awful. And I 755 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,680 S5: can just remember the Lord. You know, maybe it doesn't 756 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,520 S5: resonate with everyone, but I can just remember the Lord 757 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:36,279 S5: telling me, just picture a lush fruit and now take 758 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,600 S5: a bite out of it. And the Lord said, that's patience. 759 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,800 S5: And it became sweet to me. And the Lord just 760 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,399 S5: taught it to me in such wonderful and kind and 761 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,840 S5: gracious ways. And, you know, I tell people today there's 762 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:56,160 S5: been far more gain than there's been loss in blindness. 763 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,480 S5: I'm just truly, I can say it with a pure heart, 764 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,040 S5: a pure conscience. I'm so thankful for it. There are 765 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,430 S5: lush green Pastures. I would have never known had God 766 00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:12,350 S5: not Psalm 23 two made me to lie down in them. 767 00:40:12,469 --> 00:40:13,590 S6: Mhm. Wow. 768 00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:18,509 S1: It really is about so many things that we learn 769 00:40:18,510 --> 00:40:20,989 S1: only when we suffer. Doesn't that tell you something about 770 00:40:20,989 --> 00:40:23,630 S1: the human condition that you know? It's the idea of C.S. 771 00:40:23,630 --> 00:40:27,870 S1: Lewis again, about, um, whispering us in our joy and 772 00:40:27,870 --> 00:40:30,190 S1: how he shouts to us in our pain because that's 773 00:40:30,190 --> 00:40:32,790 S1: a way of getting our attention. And then we're willing 774 00:40:32,830 --> 00:40:34,950 S1: to do the tough stuff we won't do when we're 775 00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:37,790 S1: just whistling past the graveyard on a regular basis. So 776 00:40:38,110 --> 00:40:40,350 S1: I love the way you talk about that. This attribute 777 00:40:40,350 --> 00:40:43,430 S1: of patience is important. I always used to say, Lord, 778 00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:45,630 S1: I think your clock is broken because it seems to 779 00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:48,790 S1: not be working. It's far too slow. And and you 780 00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:51,270 S1: talk about the three answers we get for prayer. Yes, no. 781 00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:52,190 S1: And wait. 782 00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:52,910 S6: Yeah. 783 00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:54,910 S1: From your perspective, and I love the way you harken 784 00:40:54,910 --> 00:40:57,350 S1: back to Isaiah on this one. Why is it so 785 00:40:57,350 --> 00:40:59,229 S1: crucial that we learn to wait upon the Lord? That's 786 00:40:59,230 --> 00:41:01,509 S1: a that's an easy Bible verse most of us memorize 787 00:41:01,510 --> 00:41:04,460 S1: early when we're getting into Bible memorization, but it's one 788 00:41:04,460 --> 00:41:07,140 S1: thing to memorize it. It's a whole other thing to 789 00:41:07,180 --> 00:41:08,980 S1: do it. Why is it so important? 790 00:41:09,340 --> 00:41:12,140 S5: Well, I think it's special to the Lord. You know, Christians, 791 00:41:12,140 --> 00:41:15,739 S5: Christians would do well to watch the calendar, not the clock. 792 00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:19,140 S5: And I think it's such a special thing to the 793 00:41:19,140 --> 00:41:22,259 S5: Lord when we wait. Uh, you know, I remember the 794 00:41:22,260 --> 00:41:24,779 S5: Lord asking me out of that scripture in Isaiah, will 795 00:41:24,780 --> 00:41:27,660 S5: you be one of those part of they I said, 796 00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:30,419 S5: I said, Lord, what do you mean? He said, they 797 00:41:31,020 --> 00:41:34,540 S5: that wait upon the Lord. That's a special group of people. 798 00:41:34,739 --> 00:41:39,060 S5: Those are people who who find pleasure in saying, God, 799 00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:42,180 S5: I may not get the outcome I'm hoping for. The 800 00:41:42,180 --> 00:41:44,540 S5: prayer may not be answered the way that I think 801 00:41:44,540 --> 00:41:49,380 S5: it should be. But ultimately, I trust you and you're 802 00:41:49,380 --> 00:41:50,460 S5: worth waiting on. 803 00:41:51,460 --> 00:41:51,820 S6: Wow. 804 00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:54,700 S1: You tell the story. I know this story. I wonder 805 00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:56,980 S1: if some people listening across the country don't but talk 806 00:41:56,980 --> 00:41:59,899 S1: to me about Mary and George Mueller, because this ties 807 00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:01,900 S1: into the idea that God is never late. 808 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,080 S5: The Muellers. What examples of faith. And that's what I love. 809 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,480 S5: You know, not only do we share the scriptural characters, 810 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,160 S5: but we go back into church history and we tell 811 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,560 S5: wonderful stories of church history. Uh, you'll have to refresh me. 812 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,000 S5: Is that the story of the bread and the milk? 813 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,120 S1: Yes, yes. In Bristol, England. And the orphanage? Yes. Love 814 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:23,520 S1: the story. 815 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,239 S5: Yes. They get up that morning and all of the orphans. 816 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,200 S5: There's no food in the house. And George Mueller, he 817 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,879 S5: lines up all the children, just like normal empty bowls, 818 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,879 S5: empty cabinets, nothing. And he tells the children, we're going 819 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,279 S5: to thank God for our daily bread today. And they pray. 820 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,680 S5: And while he is praying, a knock is on the door. 821 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,040 S5: And it was the local bread baker. He said, God 822 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,640 S5: woke me up in the middle of the night and 823 00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:00,400 S5: told me to start baking bread. And then the milk, uh, 824 00:43:00,550 --> 00:43:03,469 S5: the milk delivery man is car broke down right in 825 00:43:03,469 --> 00:43:06,150 S5: front of the orphanage. And he told George Mueller, if 826 00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:07,830 S5: I don't get rid of it, it's going to spoil. 827 00:43:07,870 --> 00:43:10,750 S5: Could the children use it? And what did Mueller say? 828 00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:13,310 S5: Not only did God give us bread, not only did 829 00:43:13,310 --> 00:43:16,750 S5: God give us milk, he gave us fresh bread and 830 00:43:16,750 --> 00:43:17,910 S5: fresh milk. 831 00:43:19,590 --> 00:43:22,910 S1: Only God can. Wow, Chad, there's so much more in 832 00:43:22,910 --> 00:43:24,710 S1: the book. And so let me just ask for a 833 00:43:24,750 --> 00:43:28,190 S1: capstone again. I'll repeat myself because it's true. Let's not 834 00:43:28,190 --> 00:43:31,870 S1: kid ourselves. Suffering is not fun. It was not designed 835 00:43:31,870 --> 00:43:36,390 S1: to be. But it is unbelievably important in changing who 836 00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:39,310 S1: we are, in conforming and transforming us to the image 837 00:43:39,310 --> 00:43:42,230 S1: of Christ. Back to Isaiah. How dare the pot say 838 00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:43,989 S1: to the potter, what are you doing? Well, this is 839 00:43:43,989 --> 00:43:47,030 S1: God molding and shaping us. So just one last word 840 00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:49,469 S1: shed for someone who's in the midst of suffering right now. 841 00:43:49,469 --> 00:43:51,550 S1: What would you say to them as a word of encouragement? 842 00:43:51,989 --> 00:43:55,510 S5: I would say it's not fun. It's not fair, but 843 00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:59,109 S5: it is worth it because God doesn't waste anything. 844 00:44:00,210 --> 00:44:03,410 S1: Chad, what a wonderful and memorable conversation. Thank you brother. 845 00:44:03,450 --> 00:44:06,250 S1: May the Lord open wide more doors of opportunity for 846 00:44:06,250 --> 00:44:08,450 S1: you to share your story and to encourage the saints, 847 00:44:08,450 --> 00:44:12,450 S1: because suffering is a reality. It'll end when real life begins. 848 00:44:12,450 --> 00:44:15,810 S1: We're not yet there. So in the meantime, it's important 849 00:44:15,810 --> 00:44:17,689 S1: that we learn to suffer well for what it's doing 850 00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:20,130 S1: for us and what our suffering can do for others 851 00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:23,370 S1: as well. Chad's book is marvelous. It's called blind Faith 852 00:44:23,410 --> 00:44:26,009 S1: Seeing God Through Darkness. And again, I have a link 853 00:44:26,010 --> 00:44:29,770 S1: to his website awakened to grace.com. It's all there on 854 00:44:29,770 --> 00:44:32,049 S1: my information page, by the way, someone you know might 855 00:44:32,050 --> 00:44:34,730 S1: be struggling right now and they may have missed this broadcast. 856 00:44:35,050 --> 00:44:37,609 S1: Send them the link or take them to wherever you 857 00:44:37,610 --> 00:44:40,890 S1: find your favorite podcast and put in today's date and 858 00:44:40,890 --> 00:44:43,930 S1: ask to see and listen. For Chad Roberts, this is 859 00:44:43,930 --> 00:44:48,010 S1: his conversation, his story, his encouragement to somebody who's hurting 860 00:44:48,010 --> 00:44:50,250 S1: right now. My thanks again to Chad Roberts and to 861 00:44:50,250 --> 00:44:51,770 S1: you friends. We'll see you next time on In the 862 00:44:51,810 --> 00:44:53,330 S1: Market with Janet Parshall.