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S1: In 1947, Bedouin shepherds stumbled upon a remarkable discovery in

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S1: the Judean Desert seven scrolls tucked into clay jars in

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S1: the back of a cave. But not just any scrolls.

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S1: These were the first of what came to be known

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S1: as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Hey, stick around to learn

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S1: how you can see some of these scrolls in person

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S1: without traveling to Israel. Plus the latest headlines from the

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S1: Middle East. Hey, welcome to this week's edition of The

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S1: Land and the book. If we haven't met, I'm John Gager,

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S1: and our Middle East authority is Doctor Charlie Dyer. How

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S1: are you doing, Charlie?

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S2: John, I'm doing great as we end this year and

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S2: get ready to start the new one.

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S1: Well, speaking of the end of this year, many world

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S1: events have left us wondering what God's plan is for

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S1: the future. And that's especially true when it comes to Israel.

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S1: Despite its tiny size, people around the world are just

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S1: intensely focused on what takes place. There are today's headlines,

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S1: we wonder, connected in any way with prophecies in the Bible?

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S1: And how should followers of Jesus interpret current events as

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S1: we await Christ's second coming?

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S2: To help answer those important questions, our friends at Life

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S2: and Messiah encourage you to check out their book, God, Israel,

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S2: and Bible Prophecy with Scripture as its foundation. This book

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S2: will take you on a journey into what God has

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S2: in store, both for the Jewish people and the nations.

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S2: The book is for anyone who wants to explore where

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S2: modern day events fit on God's grand timeline. Now, if

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S2: that's you or someone you know, this would be a

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S2: great resource or gift. Visit Life in Messiah. Org and

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S2: click on the Moody Radio button to find out how

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S2: you can receive your copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy.

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S2: That's life in messiah.org.

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S1: Well, as you've pointed out, Charlie, we're at the end

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S1: of the year and boy, that has slipped by, hasn't it?

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S1: But before we flip the page on the calendar to

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S1: a new calendar, let's look back at the top stories

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S1: of the past year. The major event had to be

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S1: the Multi-front War fought by Israel. What were the highs

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S1: and lows of this military struggle?

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S2: You know, this is the longest and most brutal war

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S2: Israel has faced since its war of independence back in 1948.

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S2: They had to fight both Hamas and Hezbollah. They also

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S2: traded blows with Iran, with the Houthis and the Shiite

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S2: militants in Iraq. And in addition, they experienced terror attacks

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S2: from within their own borders. The highs over the past

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S2: year definitely include the dramatic attacks against Hezbollah, thought to

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S2: be the most powerful of Iran's allies, from the exploding

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S2: pagers to the effective elimination of Hezbollah's leadership, including their

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S2: long term head, Hassan Nasrallah. Israel decimated the group, forcing

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S2: them to agree to a ceasefire and relocate their forces

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S2: to a line north of the Litani River. Israel also

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S2: devastated Hamas, destroying most of their brigades and killing their

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S2: key political and military leadership, including Yahya Sinwar, Ismail Haniyeh,

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S2: and Mohammed Deif. They also destroyed much of the military infrastructure,

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S2: including underground tunnels, rockets, and manufacturing facilities. Israel attacked Iran

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S2: in response to rockets Iran fired at them. They eliminated

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S2: most of Iran's anti-aircraft sites, making Iran vulnerable to future attacks,

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S2: and they eliminated Iran's ability to manufacture additional solid fuel rockets.

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S2: Now the lows for Israel over the past year. That

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S2: includes especially the toll in human life. Around 900 soldiers

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S2: and police have been killed in the ongoing conflict. Another

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S2: low is the impact of the war on Israel's economy.

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S2: Service time for reservists in the IDF averaged 136 days

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S2: per year. Some businesses failed, others were forced to cut back,

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S2: and families struggled to get by financially with the loss

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S2: of income. We saw that John firsthand back in March,

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S2: when we visited a company that normally employs about 150 people.

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S2: Most of the desks were empty, with just a handful

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S2: of people still in place. The rest were either called

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S2: up for reserve duty or furlough due to the lack

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S2: of work and sadly, the conflict still isn't over. Though

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S2: hopefully things are finally winding down.

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S1: Well, the second major story of the year was the

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S1: surprising rise in anti-Semitism worldwide, in response to Israel's fight

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S1: against Hamas and Hezbollah. What was behind this dramatic rise?

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S2: You know, analysts point to a variety of causes, including

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S2: the apparent disparity between the number of casualties in Israel

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S2: and the number in Gaza. The problem here is that

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S2: the numbers provided by Hamas can't be verified and don't

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S2: distinguish between civilians and fighters. Hamas was quick to report

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S2: mass casualty events, even though many turned out to be

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S2: inaccurate or downright false. But by the time the truth

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S2: finally came out, the damage was already done. Those reasons alone, however,

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S2: don't account for the dramatic rise in anti-Semitism. For example,

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S2: protests began on college campuses on October 8th, the day

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S2: after Hamas killed over 1200 Israelis and before Israel was

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S2: able to respond, anti-Semitism was always there, just below the surface.

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S2: October 7th gave those who hate the Jews an opportunity

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S2: to publicly demonstrate that hatred under the guise of supporting Hezbollah,

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S2: Hamas and the Palestinians. But let me dig even deeper, John. Bigotry,

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S2: prejudice and the wickedness of the human heart are also

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S2: key reasons for anti-Semitism. But I believe the ultimate cause

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S2: for anti-Semitism can be traced back to Satan and his

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S2: opposition to God. anti-Semitism has Satan's fingerprints all over it.

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S2: He rebelled against God. Originally, he tried to kill God's

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S2: Messiah at his first coming, and he's actively trying to

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S2: turn the world against God's chosen people before the Messiah returns.

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S2: The rise in anti-Semitism over the past year is a

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S2: reminder that Satan hates God. He hates God's people, and

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S2: he hates God's program. And it's also a reminder that

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S2: we need to stand up for the Jewish people and

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S2: for Israel's right to exist as a nation in their

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S2: own land, a land which, by the way, was promised

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S2: to them by God.

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S1: You're listening to The Land and the book from Moody Radio.

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S1: Our host is Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted Middle East expert.

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S1: I'm John Gager, and our third major story of the

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S1: year looks at the International Criminal Court, which charged Israel

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S1: and her leaders with genocide and war crimes. What's the

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S1: impact of these charges? And is Israel guilty?

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S2: Well, in terms of the impact of the charges, they

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S2: do make it difficult on Israel as a country and

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S2: on individual Israelis. Israel's leaders are threatened with arrest if

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S2: they visit a country that's a member of the ICC.

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S2: This also opens the door for countries to boycott Israeli products.

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S2: Israeli soldiers who fought in Gaza or Lebanon are in

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S2: danger of being arrested and charged with war crimes for

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S2: serving in the military. So the bottom line, though, is

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S2: Israel guilty? Well, they're not. In fact, over the past year,

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S2: Israel demonstrated that it's done more than any army in

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S2: history to protect civilians while fighting in an urban environment

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S2: against an enemy who deliberately embedded itself among civilians, using

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S2: them as human shields. Israel filed two appeals against the

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S2: arrest warrants, the first focused on serious procedural deficiencies in

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S2: the ICC decision, and the second dealt with the claim

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S2: that the ICC lacks any jurisdiction over Israelis. Could there

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S2: be individual instances where soldiers committed war crimes? Yeah, that's

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S2: true of every war ever fought. And Israel, just like

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S2: the US, has a mechanism for prosecuting individual soldiers for

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S2: war crimes. But Israel didn't invade Gaza to try and

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S2: wipe out the Palestinian people. They invaded to defeat an

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S2: enemy that had attacked them. And they called on civilians

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S2: within Gaza to move out of areas they're about to attack.

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S2: You know what nation telegraphs its plan of attack, putting

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S2: its own soldiers in harm's way to spare civilians? Well,

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S2: that's what Israel did. Thankfully, the United States has made

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S2: it clear that we believe the charges have no merit.

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S2: There has been genocide, but it's been committed by Hamas

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S2: and Hezbollah, not Israel.

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S1: The final story of the year has to be the

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S1: ongoing hostage drama and the related opposition to Prime Minister

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S1: Netanyahu on the part of many Israelis. How do these

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S1: two pieces interconnect?

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S2: Yeah, well, one reason Hamas chose to attack when they

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S2: did was the very public division within Israel, between the

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S2: government and those who were opposed to it. The specific

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S2: issue was a plan on the part of the coalition

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S2: to reform Israel's legal system. Now, what got lost in

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S2: all of the protests is the fact that some of

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S2: the reforms would have made their system more like that

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S2: in the U.S., adding additional checks and balances to keep

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S2: the judiciary from exerting too much power to Hamas as

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S2: they looked at all the conflict. It appeared that Israel

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S2: was imploding, and this encouraged them to attack. One tactic

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S2: they've used in the past was to capture hostages, to

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S2: try to keep Israel from responding. And in this case,

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S2: Israel initially came together as a nation to oppose Hamas

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S2: and to push for the return of the hostages. That

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S2: was a highlight for Israel in terms of their unity.

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S2: But Hamas scattered the hostages throughout Gaza, making their rescue

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S2: extremely difficult. Hamas then demanded Israel stop its attack, withdraw

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S2: from Gaza and allow Hamas to remain in power as

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S2: conditions for the return of the hostages. Israel set two

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S2: goals in this war with Hamas defeat and remove Hamas

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S2: from power and bring back all the hostages. But as

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S2: the war dragged on, those goals seemed to become mutually exclusive.

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S2: The fractures within Israel resurfaced, and those opposed to Netanyahu

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S2: claimed he was prolonging the war for his own personal benefit, which, sadly,

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S2: just isn't true. Hamas saw political benefit in keeping the

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S2: hostages until Israel agreed to all its demands. Now, as

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S2: this year ends, we might, and I use the word

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S2: might be seeing a way forward. Hamas is feeling more isolated.

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S2: Israel didn't allow U.S. pressure to force them to back

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S2: off in the fight against Hamas. They kept advancing inside Gaza,

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S2: further degrading Hamas's military capabilities. And as the year ends,

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S2: the hope in everyone's mind is that the release of

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S2: the remaining hostages might finally be close at hand. It's

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S2: certainly time to bring them home, and the threats by

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S2: president elect Trump seem to be helping in that regard.

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S2: But the same can't be said for the opposition to

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S2: Netanyahu on the part of a significant number of Israelis

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S2: that opposition is likely to continue.

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S1: Charlie, isn't it true in one sense that although it's

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S1: bad for the hostages and their families, the longer this

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S1: thing continues to play out, it seems to weaken the

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S1: position of Hamas. It makes their lives more difficult.

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S2: Well, what I would say is it makes the lives

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S2: of the people in Gaza definitely more difficult. Sadly, Hamas

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S2: have been hijacking the aid trucks that have come in.

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S2: The individual Hamas fighters are doing much better than the

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S2: average person within Gaza, but Hamas doesn't care about them.

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S2: And that's what's sad.

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S1: Let me ask you to put on your thinking cap here.

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S1: What's a likely six month forecast for both Syria and Lebanon.

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S1: The situations there, Syria and Lebanon.

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S2: Unfortunately, we're likely to see a Sunni Islamic state come

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S2: into play for Lebanon. There's perhaps a little bit more hope.

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S2: The lifeline to Hezbollah has been cut off with Iran

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S2: not being able to resupply them. And there's a possibility

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S2: at least of a government forming in Lebanon that could

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S2: hold Hezbollah in check and not let them become, again,

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S2: a state within a state.

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S1: All right. And that's a look at current events and

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S1: a little bit of a forecast of what's likely ahead

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S1: in Syria and Lebanon. I'm looking forward to our conversation

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S1: coming up next, where we're talking about the Dead Sea

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S1: Scrolls and how you can see some of them right

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S1: here in the United States of America. That's a great conversation.

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S1: Up next on the Land and the book. In 1947,

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S1: Bedouin shepherds stumbled upon a remarkable discovery in the Judean Desert.

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S1: Seven scrolls tucked away into clay jars in the back

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S1: of a cave. But not just any scrolls. These were

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S1: the first of what came to be known as the

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S1: Dead Sea Scrolls. Over the next decade, thousands of manuscript

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S1: fragments from 11 different caves were discovered near the ancient

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S1: site of Qumran, dating back two millennia. These fragile parchments,

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S1: preserved by the dry climate and darkness of the caves,

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S1: represent the oldest known copies of the Hebrew Bible, which

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S1: we refer to as the Old Testament. But here's the shocker.

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S1: Eight of those scrolls and more than 200 artifacts are

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S1: part of a special exhibition that you can see now

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S1: for yourself at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California.

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S1: Are you intrigued? Well, I am. Hey, welcome to segment

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S1: two of The Land and the book. I'm John Gager.

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S1: Joining our conversation today is Melissa Giller, chief marketing officer

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S1: for the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute. Melissa oversees

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S1: the marketing, the public relations, social media center for public affairs,

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S1: programming and facility rental business for the Foundation. While working

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S1: for that foundation, Melissa has helped secure the special exhibitions

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S1: that are housed at the library, helping make the Reagan

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S1: Library the most visited museum in the presidential library system.

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S1: That said, welcome to the land and the book. Melissa, thank.

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S3: You so much for having me.

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S1: Well, how in the world did you get approval from

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S1: the Israeli antiquities authorities to host this exhibit?

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S3: So we've been working with them since 2019. This exhibition

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S3: had traveled before, but it went on rest in 2018,

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S3: and they knew they were bringing it back out in

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S3: a couple of years. And it takes a really long

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S3: time to get approval from the Israeli Antiquities Authority. We're

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S3: very fortunate. We're actually a government building, so we have

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S3: all the security and safety measures that they require. We've

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S3: also been able to host some of the most, you know,

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S3: exquisite exhibitions like Auschwitz not long ago, not far away

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S3: in Vatican splendor. So they know that we have a

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S3: venue that can bring in these large exhibitions and host them. And,

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S3: you know, we were even able to point to the

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S3: fact that President Reagan believed so strongly in his faith,

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S3: believed so strongly in Israel, and all of those things

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S3: mixed together. They opened up their doors. And we are

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S3: so excited about this new exhibit.

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S1: So how long will that exhibit be available to the public?

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S1: I'm curious.

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S3: Yeah. The exhibition will run through the very end of

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S3: August in 2025. And what's extraordinary about it, you mentioned

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S3: that there are eight scrolls. Well, the scrolls can only

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S3: be in light three months every five years. So we

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S3: have this exhibition for a total of nine months in

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S3: its entirety. And every three months they bring us an

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S3: entire new eight set of scrolls.

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S4: Wow.

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S1: To honor that, need to keep those fragments in good,

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S1: good health, as it were.

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S3: Exactly preserved as long as they can be.

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S1: Well, in addition to the scrolls, one of the artifacts

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S1: on display, I'm told, is the Magdala Stone, which dates

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S1: to the Second Temple period. Describe this piece. How big

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S1: is it and what does it look like?

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S3: Sure. So as you said, it dates back to the

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S3: Second Temple period. It's a very intricate stone that shows

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S3: the carvings of the temple, and they believe that those

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S3: drawings are actually showing the role of the synagogue as

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S3: a sacred space. They believe it was used as furniture, perhaps,

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S3: to hold the Torah or some other important object from

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S3: the temple of the time. It's completely made of stone.

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S3: It's perhaps maybe two feet wide by maybe four feet

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S3: across and maybe about three feet tall. And it's just

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S3: it's extraordinary. It has a whole bunch of different markings.

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S3: They believe it's the first ever use of a seven

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S3: candle menorah on an object like that, dating back 2000 years.

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S1: Yeah. And if you've been to the Magdala site, you've

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S1: seen a replica of that. And boy, fascinating to see

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S1: that you guys have the actual one. This is the

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S1: land in the book I'm John Geiger, visiting today with

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S1: Melissa Giller, who is taking us on a bit of

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S1: an audio tour of a fabulous exhibit open to the

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S1: public now at the Ronald Reagan Library. Also on display

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S1: is the Sea of Galilee boat, often referred to as

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S1: the Jesus Boat. That's a first century fishing boat discovered

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S1: in 1986 along the northwest shore of the Sea of Galilee.

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S1: Many of our listeners will be familiar with that, and

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S1: they know this is not a small thing. So describe

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S1: this remarkable treasure for anybody who's new to it.

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00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:10,980
S3: Yes. So what's extra? Well, there's many things extraordinary about

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S3: this boat, but one of the things that's extraordinary is

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S3: it's never toured before. So since finding it in 1986,

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S3: it has never left the Israel Antiquities Authority archives. So

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S3: we are the first location to ever have it on display.

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S3: It was found in 1986, as you said, during a

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S3: really strong drought in the Sea of Galilee. And through

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S3: carbon dating, they have been able to prove that it

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S3: was a boat, most likely a fisherman's boat used on

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S3: the Sea of Galilee at the exact same time that

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S3: Jesus was a fisherman on that exact sea. So the

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00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:44,700
S3: boat itself is very fragile. It doesn't really travel. So

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00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:48,570
S3: what they've traveled are wood fragments from the boat. They

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S3: can prove that the wood is both cedar from Lebanon

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00:16:51,630 --> 00:16:54,720
S3: as well as other wood species from Israel. And then

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S3: they've sort of recreated the full scope of the boat,

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S3: so you can see the size of it with the

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00:16:59,430 --> 00:17:02,730
S3: original wood carvings, the sort of wood fragments in a

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S3: case in the middle of the boat.

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S1: I understand you also feature a number of ossuaries, small

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00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:11,939
S1: stone receptacles used for secondary burial. For those who aren't familiar,

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00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:14,310
S1: tell us a bit about the practical side of an

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00:17:14,310 --> 00:17:17,970
S1: ossuary and why these are important to include in your display.

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S3: Yes, so they really wanted this exhibition to, you know,

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S3: it's called the Dead Sea Scrolls. But as you said earlier,

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00:17:24,330 --> 00:17:27,270
S3: there are 200 objects and only eight scrolls. So the

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00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:29,429
S3: scrolls are really just almost a small part of it.

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S3: And they wanted to be able to show the culture

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S3: and the foundations of faith across Christianity, Judaism, and even

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S3: the beginning of Islam faith in this exhibition, and they

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00:17:38,430 --> 00:17:41,609
S3: do so through the use of these other 200 artifacts

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S3: we have. I believe it's five ossuaries on display. And

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S3: for those who aren't aware, as you said, they hold

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S3: bone fragments inside of them. And I've been learning some

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S3: really interesting information because, again, if you are of the

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S3: Jewish faith, they have to keep things in a sense

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S3: kosher and what they can and can't do with certain

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S3: bones and sort of changing things up so the bones

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S3: would be cleaned before they would be put inside these

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S3: stone cases to be preserved forever.

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S1: Melissa Geller is our guest today on the Land and

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S1: the book. She serves as chief marketing officer for the

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S1: Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California. I am just

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S1: blown away that you also have on display some objects

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S1: from Masada. That's Herod the Great's desert fortress overlooking the

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S1: Dead Sea. Remind listeners why this particular fortress was such

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S1: a strategic site, and what specific artifacts can we expect

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S1: to see?

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S3: So what I can tell you is that Masada is

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S3: really important, because what they're explaining in this exhibit as

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S3: a whole is why these scrolls, why these artifacts were

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S3: hidden to begin with, and they were hidden to begin

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S3: with because of the Roman Empire rule and them going

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S3: in and all the the fighting, if you could call

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S3: it that. But really, the execution and persecution of the

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S3: Jews at the time. And most of those fights were happening.

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S3: Some of the strongest fights were happening at Masada. So

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S3: they've actually built replica sort of scenic view of what

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S3: Masada looked like at the time, as well as really

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S3: beautiful photographs that people can get a sense of where

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S3: you were sort of near the Dead Sea during those fights.

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S3: There are sort of panel copies around the exhibition explaining

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S3: what happened during that time, why that time is so

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S3: important to the history of the Dead Sea Scrolls and

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S3: the hiding of all these objects. And then this is

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00:19:28,350 --> 00:19:31,320
S3: a sort of silly answer, but, um, so they're still

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S3: inserting artifacts and they haven't yet put the artifacts in

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S3: that gallery at the time of this recording, so I

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00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,260
S3: haven't seen exactly what's going in there yet. So you

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00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:41,840
S3: might need to cut that part out. But the history part,

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00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:42,650
S3: I can tell you.

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S1: No, I think we're good, because I heard from a

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S1: little bird somewhere that you guys have some small pot

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S1: sherds bearing writing, some botanical remains, including some pomegranate peels,

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00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:58,669
S1: walnut shells and olive pits, as well as imported textiles.

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S1: All that to say, it's more than just a couple

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S1: of photos. It really is a remarkable presentation of Masada

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S1: at several different levels, so that's just too cool, I think.

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S3: Yeah, very cool. They also even have they talk about

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S3: Pilgrimage Road, which is the road that people would take

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S3: as they approached the temple. And so along the pilgrimage

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S3: road were shops. And they have found through their excavations jewelry, weapons, pottery, money,

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S3: all the different things that were used along pilgrimage roads

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S3: in these markets. And these things will all be on

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S3: display as well.

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S1: In the New Testament, we read that the shekel coin

381
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S1: was the official annual temple tax you had to pay.

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S1: Every male above 20 years old had to pay up

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00:20:42,710 --> 00:20:46,040
S1: because your collection is so amazing. Melissa. You also have

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S1: some shekels for people to see.

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S3: We sure do.

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S1: I'm kind of curious if you've seen one. What American

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S1: coin does the shekel mostly resemble, or am I putting

388
00:20:56,210 --> 00:20:57,830
S1: you in a in a tough spot there?

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S3: You know, I don't know if I can answer that.

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S3: We have the silver coin, which was the coin used

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00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:07,189
S3: to pay the half shekel head tax. It has a

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00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:09,980
S3: man's face engraved in it, almost like maybe we might

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00:21:09,980 --> 00:21:13,850
S3: have the face of Washington engraved in a coin. But

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00:21:13,850 --> 00:21:18,470
S3: of course, much more textured, because our coins are manufactured

395
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:21,260
S3: in such a beautiful way. There's even some that have

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00:21:21,260 --> 00:21:24,650
S3: an eagle on one side. And again, these were used

397
00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:27,920
S3: for the actual tax that was used to pay to

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S3: enter the temple. So just like the same kind of

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00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,270
S3: tithes that many people still pay today to their churches

400
00:21:32,270 --> 00:21:35,060
S3: or their temples. They were doing it 2000 years ago.

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S1: We're talking with chief marketing officer Melissa Giller. I'm assuming

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S1: there's a fair amount of security concerns that must be

403
00:21:42,050 --> 00:21:45,110
S1: managed with something like this. Help us understand that facet

404
00:21:45,140 --> 00:21:47,630
S1: of the exhibit as much as you can without giving

405
00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:48,980
S1: away too many secrets.

406
00:21:49,130 --> 00:21:52,370
S3: Sure. So again, we are a government facility, so we

407
00:21:52,369 --> 00:21:56,000
S3: actually have security on our premises 24 over seven already.

408
00:21:56,030 --> 00:21:59,030
S3: Our last really big exhibition was on Auschwitz, and we

409
00:21:59,060 --> 00:22:01,610
S3: sort of ramped up our security a little bit for

410
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,950
S3: that as well. When we had the Auschwitz exhibition, that's

411
00:22:03,950 --> 00:22:07,070
S3: when the October 7th Hamas attack happened on Israel. So

412
00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:10,340
S3: we're sort of prepared for this. I don't think visitors

413
00:22:10,340 --> 00:22:14,090
S3: will really see a difference. It's security cameras, security guards,

414
00:22:14,090 --> 00:22:16,490
S3: the things that we already do, we do check bags.

415
00:22:16,490 --> 00:22:19,040
S3: So nothing like that is really changed. But we are

416
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,070
S3: just more aware. We do live in a very political climate.

417
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:24,680
S3: I can tell you, without naming names, that there were

418
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,919
S3: other locations being considered for this exhibition, and some of

419
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,320
S3: those museums backed out because they were too nervous that

420
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,840
S3: it might not be a safe time to house the exhibition,

421
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,930
S3: but that made us want to house the exhibition even more.

422
00:22:36,170 --> 00:22:39,980
S3: It is so important for people to see these artifacts,

423
00:22:39,980 --> 00:22:42,620
S3: to learn these stories, you know. As you said, this

424
00:22:42,619 --> 00:22:46,730
S3: is the oldest known full portion of the Hebrew Bible

425
00:22:46,730 --> 00:22:49,640
S3: known to ever exist. It's the same books in the

426
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,270
S3: Old Testament and the Christian Bible. And what's also spectacular

427
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:55,970
S3: about them is that if you can read Hebrew, you

428
00:22:55,970 --> 00:22:58,400
S3: can actually read the Dead Sea Scrolls, because the characters

429
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,430
S3: haven't changed in over 2000 years. So again, if you

430
00:23:01,430 --> 00:23:03,770
S3: can read it when you see these scrolls, you will

431
00:23:03,770 --> 00:23:05,090
S3: still be able to read it just as if you

432
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:06,530
S3: were reading a Torah today.

433
00:23:06,650 --> 00:23:08,570
S1: So let me ask you a personal question. As you

434
00:23:08,570 --> 00:23:13,640
S1: have examined this collection being put together and taking shape.

435
00:23:13,670 --> 00:23:16,790
S1: What for you is the most intriguing item or the

436
00:23:16,790 --> 00:23:19,310
S1: most maybe significant personal takeaway?

437
00:23:19,940 --> 00:23:23,540
S3: For me personally, it's the two ton piece of the

438
00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:26,929
S3: Western Wall. Israel is a place I've always wanted to visit.

439
00:23:26,930 --> 00:23:29,750
S3: I have not yet been able to do that and

440
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:32,060
S3: to go to Israel to be at the Wailing Wall,

441
00:23:32,060 --> 00:23:34,250
S3: the Western Wall, and to leave a note of prayer

442
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,370
S3: or something that is really important to me. And when

443
00:23:37,369 --> 00:23:40,010
S3: this exhibition has traveled in the past, it has only

444
00:23:40,010 --> 00:23:43,730
S3: traveled with a replica of the Western Wall. And this

445
00:23:43,730 --> 00:23:47,390
S3: exhibition travels, as I said, with a real two ton piece.

446
00:23:47,420 --> 00:23:50,629
S3: It fell off the wall surrounding the Second Temple, but

447
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:53,660
S3: it's never left Jerusalem before. And to have that here

448
00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:56,540
S3: and visitors are allowed to actually leave a note next

449
00:23:56,540 --> 00:23:59,510
S3: to it. Um, again, I still want to get to Israel.

450
00:23:59,540 --> 00:24:01,610
S3: It's not a replacement for going to Israel.

451
00:24:01,670 --> 00:24:02,780
S4: That's right. But it is.

452
00:24:02,780 --> 00:24:06,440
S3: For me a very significant piece that something I've always

453
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,760
S3: wanted to do, and that I can now do it

454
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,310
S3: at the Reagan Library is fun, but extraordinary at the same.

455
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:11,000
S4: Time. Oh, for.

456
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,580
S1: Sure. And that's neat that you're allowing people to place, uh,

457
00:24:13,580 --> 00:24:16,490
S1: notes and prayers there, as they do at the wall.

458
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:19,670
S1: We we see those crammed into the cracks. I've placed

459
00:24:19,670 --> 00:24:22,730
S1: one there myself a time or two. Hey, what is

460
00:24:22,730 --> 00:24:25,310
S1: your goal in hosting this exhibit when all is said

461
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:26,270
S1: and done? Melissa.

462
00:24:27,170 --> 00:24:33,500
S3: We want to bring awareness to history, first and foremost, religion.

463
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:38,000
S3: But the importance of not forgetting, right? I mean, I

464
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,430
S3: know if people study the Bible or people study the Torah,

465
00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:43,490
S3: they know the stories that are in there. But to

466
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,510
S3: see the items themselves, these 2000 year old items from

467
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:50,360
S3: the time of Jesus, I think it sort of opens

468
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,520
S3: up what you believe and what you see in a

469
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,940
S3: whole new way. So we really hope that people come

470
00:24:55,940 --> 00:24:58,730
S3: to the Reagan Library, see the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibition,

471
00:24:58,730 --> 00:25:02,330
S3: not let the political environment scare them away, or think

472
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,139
S3: maybe another day, another time. It's more important now than

473
00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:08,810
S3: ever to remember these stories and to see these items

474
00:25:08,810 --> 00:25:11,870
S3: up close and personal. So, um, we are the only

475
00:25:11,869 --> 00:25:14,960
S3: location in all of the West Coast to house this exhibition.

476
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,360
S3: When it starts to travel. It'll be on the East Coast.

477
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,390
S3: So we do encourage anyone west of the Mississippi who

478
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:21,260
S3: can hear me.

479
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:22,130
S4: Come on out.

480
00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:22,580
S3: Before it.

481
00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:23,330
S4: Closes.

482
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,900
S1: That's great. And we'll link to your museum right there

483
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,890
S1: at our website. The land and the book. Org take

484
00:25:30,890 --> 00:25:33,890
S1: you right to this display and all the information you

485
00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:37,520
S1: need to know about the Ronald Reagan Library's extraordinary collection,

486
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,400
S1: the Dead Sea Scrolls. Melissa, a pleasure to chat with

487
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,500
S1: you today. Thanks for letting us know what we can

488
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:45,320
S1: expect when we get out there and see this tremendous

489
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,460
S1: exhibit for ourselves.

490
00:25:46,460 --> 00:25:48,500
S3: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate.

491
00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:49,129
S4: It, and.

492
00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:50,840
S1: We're looking forward to connecting with a fresh set of

493
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,199
S1: Bible questions and their answers. Up next here on the

494
00:25:54,200 --> 00:26:07,760
S1: land and the book. You know, you have so many

495
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,830
S1: options in what you listen to these days. Here you

496
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:12,139
S1: are with us at the land and the book, and

497
00:26:12,140 --> 00:26:14,150
S1: we're glad you decided to hang out. I think you'll

498
00:26:14,150 --> 00:26:16,460
S1: be glad you did. Fascinating to hear what people are

499
00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:19,459
S1: wondering as they open their Bibles. Do some study. We're

500
00:26:19,460 --> 00:26:21,980
S1: going to get to a great list of questions. First, though,

501
00:26:21,980 --> 00:26:24,109
S1: you think about the end of the year approaching and

502
00:26:24,109 --> 00:26:26,660
S1: all the world events that have left us wondering what

503
00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:29,960
S1: God's plan is for the future. And that's particularly true

504
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,780
S1: when it comes to Israel, despite its small size. Think

505
00:26:32,780 --> 00:26:36,590
S1: about this people around the world are intensely focused on

506
00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:40,430
S1: what takes place there. Many wonder, are today's headlines connected

507
00:26:40,430 --> 00:26:43,219
S1: in some way with the prophecies in the Bible? And

508
00:26:43,220 --> 00:26:47,570
S1: more specifically, how should followers of Jesus interpret current events?

509
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,400
S1: As we await his second coming?

510
00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:52,640
S2: And those are great questions. And to help answer those questions,

511
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,670
S2: our friends at Life and Messiah encourage you to check

512
00:26:55,700 --> 00:26:59,540
S2: out their book, God, Israel, and Bible Prophecy. Now, with

513
00:26:59,540 --> 00:27:02,270
S2: Scripture as its foundation, this book will take you on

514
00:27:02,270 --> 00:27:04,969
S2: a journey into what God has in store for the

515
00:27:04,970 --> 00:27:08,510
S2: Jewish people and the nations. This book is for anyone

516
00:27:08,510 --> 00:27:11,600
S2: who wants to explore where modern day events fit on

517
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,800
S2: God's grand timeline. Now, if that's you or someone you know,

518
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,090
S2: this would be a great resource or gift. Visit Lifeline Messiah.

519
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:22,580
S2: Org and click on the Moody Radio button there to

520
00:27:22,609 --> 00:27:26,000
S2: find out how you can receive your copy of God,

521
00:27:26,030 --> 00:27:31,130
S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org.

522
00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:35,359
S1: Jared is questioner number one in this Q&A segment for

523
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,210
S1: the day. He says, I've been noticing that even some

524
00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:43,340
S1: conservative evangelical folks are leaning now toward centering prayer and

525
00:27:43,340 --> 00:27:46,790
S1: contemplative prayer, these being the most important thing to learn

526
00:27:46,790 --> 00:27:48,740
S1: and the way to be closest to God. Do you

527
00:27:48,740 --> 00:27:51,710
S1: have any counsel about what is biblical and what is

528
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:55,400
S1: extra biblical versus traditional in this emerging practice?

529
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:57,290
S2: Yeah, I just need to say right up front, I

530
00:27:57,290 --> 00:28:00,379
S2: have problems with the practice of people that refer to

531
00:28:00,410 --> 00:28:04,550
S2: these centering prayer or contemplative prayer. Now, in these practices,

532
00:28:04,550 --> 00:28:07,310
S2: prayer becomes a form of meditation where the person is

533
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:10,550
S2: told to focus his or her attention on a simple

534
00:28:10,550 --> 00:28:14,330
S2: word or phrase and attach it to a rhythmic breathing pattern.

535
00:28:14,330 --> 00:28:16,310
S2: But when I look at prayer in the Bible, it's

536
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:19,400
S2: an active, not a passive activity. You know, Jesus gave

537
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,460
S2: very specific instructions on how to pray in Matthew six,

538
00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:24,700
S2: the passage. We often call it the Lord's Prayer, but

539
00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:27,490
S2: it actually should be called the Disciples prayer. Since he

540
00:28:27,490 --> 00:28:30,550
S2: was explaining to his disciples how his followers ought to pray.

541
00:28:30,550 --> 00:28:32,590
S2: And he says there that prayer ought to be private

542
00:28:32,619 --> 00:28:35,889
S2: rather than public, and is not to involve the incessant

543
00:28:35,890 --> 00:28:39,190
S2: repetition of words. In fact, in verse seven he uses

544
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:43,120
S2: the word bartolaccio, which refers to stammering or repeating words

545
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,390
S2: over and over, which he then connects to the compound

546
00:28:46,420 --> 00:28:51,250
S2: word eulogia, which literally means many words. Then Jesus provides

547
00:28:51,250 --> 00:28:54,430
S2: a basic outline for prayer that involves a focus in

548
00:28:54,430 --> 00:29:00,790
S2: prayer on adoration, submission to God's will, requests for specific needs, confession,

549
00:29:00,790 --> 00:29:04,360
S2: and requests for guidance and protection. The kind of prayer

550
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,260
S2: Jesus is describing is active and focused. Rather than seeking

551
00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:11,470
S2: some altered state of serenity. It's a realization that we've

552
00:29:11,470 --> 00:29:14,650
S2: come into the presence of God Himself in active communion.

553
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,140
S2: You know, when Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane,

554
00:29:17,170 --> 00:29:20,290
S2: Luke says, and being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly,

555
00:29:20,290 --> 00:29:22,640
S2: and his sweat was like drops of blood falling on

556
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,270
S2: the ground. In his extended prayer in John 17, Jesus

557
00:29:26,270 --> 00:29:30,110
S2: prayed actively for himself, his disciples, and for all believers

558
00:29:30,110 --> 00:29:32,870
S2: who would then come to faith. Now in all those instances,

559
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:36,710
S2: Jesus's prayer is active and direct. Another example in Colossians

560
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:40,010
S2: chapter four, Paul described one of the church's own members,

561
00:29:40,010 --> 00:29:42,890
S2: who was with Paul as a servant of Christ, who

562
00:29:42,890 --> 00:29:46,010
S2: was always wrestling in prayer for you. And the word

563
00:29:46,010 --> 00:29:49,520
S2: Paul uses. There is the Greek word agonism, from which

564
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,920
S2: we get the word agony. Now the word has the

565
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,910
S2: idea of fighting, struggling, striving, or laboring. His prayer for

566
00:29:55,910 --> 00:29:58,700
S2: these saints was an act of labor on his part.

567
00:29:58,730 --> 00:30:01,190
S2: Now we're all told to meditate on God's Word. So

568
00:30:01,190 --> 00:30:04,400
S2: I'm not against meditation. Psalm one verse two tells us

569
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,790
S2: that Psalm 119, verse 11 does as well. The word

570
00:30:07,790 --> 00:30:11,120
S2: of Christ is to dwell in us richly. Colossians 316.

571
00:30:11,150 --> 00:30:13,760
S2: We're told to read God's Word and memorize God's Word

572
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,580
S2: and meditate on God's Word. But that's not the same

573
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:19,430
S2: activity as prayer, at least not as I see prayer

574
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:21,040
S2: being described in the Bible.

575
00:30:21,130 --> 00:30:24,160
S1: Well, a question from Robin, who says A Jewish friend

576
00:30:24,190 --> 00:30:28,420
S1: greeted me on Yom Kippur with the phrase Djemaa satima tova.

577
00:30:28,450 --> 00:30:31,960
S1: I know it's a greeting and means a good final ceiling,

578
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,030
S1: but can you explain just a bit more of its meaning?

579
00:30:34,030 --> 00:30:35,050
S1: Is it in the Bible?

580
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,170
S2: Yeah, well, the phrase comes from the Jewish tradition that

581
00:30:38,170 --> 00:30:40,540
S2: God writes a person's fate for the coming year on

582
00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:43,570
S2: Rosh Hashanah into one of three books. The righteous are

583
00:30:43,570 --> 00:30:45,790
S2: inscribed in the Book of Life, the evil into the

584
00:30:45,790 --> 00:30:48,580
S2: Book of Death, and those in between have their judgment

585
00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:52,000
S2: suspended until Yom Kippur, the ten days between the start

586
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,130
S2: of the New Year and Yom Kippur give this third

587
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,790
S2: group of individuals an opportunity to tip the scales in

588
00:30:57,790 --> 00:31:00,640
S2: their behalf so they can do extra good deeds or

589
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,190
S2: something during that period. So the greeting by your friend

590
00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:05,530
S2: is hoping that your fate for the coming year will

591
00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:08,080
S2: be tipped in your favor, and that you'll experience God's

592
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,750
S2: blessing in life for the coming year. Now, the idea

593
00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:12,940
S2: of a book of life does come from the Bible,

594
00:31:12,940 --> 00:31:16,870
S2: though modern Jewish understanding isn't exactly what's meant there. In

595
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:20,530
S2: Psalm 69 verse 28, David called on God to judge

596
00:31:20,530 --> 00:31:22,660
S2: his enemies and said, May they be blotted out of

597
00:31:22,660 --> 00:31:25,420
S2: the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

598
00:31:25,450 --> 00:31:28,360
S2: Now these enemies had been seeking David's death, so David

599
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,570
S2: prays that God will bring about their death. David's prayer

600
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,580
S2: isn't based on the idea that there's a ten day

601
00:31:33,580 --> 00:31:36,790
S2: period when this person's fate is sealed. He's using the

602
00:31:36,790 --> 00:31:39,520
S2: imagery of a book in a poetic fashion, to ask

603
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,070
S2: God to remove his enemies from God's record of those

604
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:44,770
S2: who remain alive. In the Book of Revelation. The Book

605
00:31:44,770 --> 00:31:47,470
S2: of Life is also used to picture God's record of

606
00:31:47,470 --> 00:31:50,110
S2: those who have been declared righteous, and anyone whose name

607
00:31:50,140 --> 00:31:52,540
S2: isn't written in the Book of life will be cast

608
00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:55,090
S2: into eternal punishment in the lake of fire. And that's

609
00:31:55,090 --> 00:31:58,270
S2: in revelation 20. But the modern Jewish use of these

610
00:31:58,270 --> 00:32:00,910
S2: words isn't exactly the way they appear in the Bible.

611
00:32:00,940 --> 00:32:05,050
S1: Sadie asks, was the Babylonian captivity a revenge for what

612
00:32:05,050 --> 00:32:06,460
S1: King Solomon did?

613
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,430
S2: Yeah. I don't believe the Babylonian captivity was revenge on

614
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:12,820
S2: God's part, though. The breakup of the empire into two kingdoms,

615
00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:15,970
S2: Israel and Judah, was part of God's judgment for his

616
00:32:15,970 --> 00:32:19,570
S2: turning away from God. I traced the Babylonian captivity back

617
00:32:19,570 --> 00:32:22,840
S2: to the covenant God made with Israel. In Leviticus 26

618
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,110
S2: and Deuteronomy 28, God gave a series of blessings he

619
00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:28,960
S2: would give for obedience and cursings that he would send

620
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,110
S2: for disobedience. The ultimate curse was his threat to cast

621
00:32:32,110 --> 00:32:35,860
S2: Israel out of the land. And in Second Chronicles 36,

622
00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:38,230
S2: at the end, as they describe him going into captivity

623
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:42,910
S2: in Babylon, the writer connects that captivity to the nations disobedience.

624
00:32:42,910 --> 00:32:46,000
S2: The kingdom was divided because of Solomon's sin, but the

625
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,750
S2: people were carried into captivity because they violated God's Word

626
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:53,560
S2: and brought on themselves that ultimate covenant curse, expulsion from

627
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:54,040
S2: the land.

628
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:56,800
S1: You're listening to the land in the book. Doctor Charlie Dyer,

629
00:32:56,830 --> 00:33:00,130
S1: our host, always welcomes your Bible questions at the land

630
00:33:00,130 --> 00:33:05,440
S1: and the book@moody.edu. In Romans 11 verse 28, Paul says,

631
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,979
S1: Israel is beloved for the sake of their ancestors. A

632
00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:11,320
S1: listener wants to know, does this mean that God loves

633
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,740
S1: those whose ancestors were pagan in a different way for

634
00:33:14,740 --> 00:33:17,680
S1: different reasons? What exactly does it mean that God loves

635
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,050
S1: someone for his ancestor's sake.

636
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,690
S2: Well, in Greek the phrase is literally beloved for the

637
00:33:22,690 --> 00:33:25,660
S2: sake of the fathers. And in the context since Paul's

638
00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:29,440
S2: speaking about Israel, the fathers he's referring to are Abraham, Isaac,

639
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,010
S2: and Jacob, the three patriarchs to whom God made specific

640
00:33:33,010 --> 00:33:37,000
S2: promises regarding the nation of Israel. Hundreds of years later,

641
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,340
S2: Micah the prophet ended his book with an assurance that

642
00:33:39,340 --> 00:33:42,190
S2: God could bless Israel because of the oath God made

643
00:33:42,190 --> 00:33:45,250
S2: to these patriarchs. He said, you will again have compassion

644
00:33:45,250 --> 00:33:48,190
S2: on us. You'll tread our sins underfoot, hurl our iniquities

645
00:33:48,190 --> 00:33:50,530
S2: into the depths of the sea. You will be true

646
00:33:50,530 --> 00:33:53,500
S2: to Jacob and show mercy to Abraham, as you pledged

647
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:56,260
S2: on oath to our fathers in days long ago. Now,

648
00:33:56,260 --> 00:33:58,300
S2: what Paul meant by this phrase is that God had

649
00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:01,660
S2: made a solemn promise to Abraham, which he reaffirmed to

650
00:34:01,690 --> 00:34:04,660
S2: Isaac and Jacob. And in context Paul is saying, the

651
00:34:04,660 --> 00:34:07,390
S2: Jewish people are beloved in the sense that they could

652
00:34:07,390 --> 00:34:10,299
S2: rely on God to keep the promise he made to

653
00:34:10,330 --> 00:34:13,299
S2: Abraham and the other patriarchs. And we can't apply this

654
00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:16,540
S2: principle to the ancestors of pagans simply because there's no

655
00:34:16,540 --> 00:34:19,060
S2: record of a promise God made to them. Here's a

656
00:34:19,060 --> 00:34:21,400
S2: simple illustration to show what I mean. Suppose I made

657
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,650
S2: a promise to you and your family, and then later

658
00:34:23,650 --> 00:34:26,290
S2: I had it notarized to make it legally binding. Now,

659
00:34:26,290 --> 00:34:27,850
S2: the fact that I made a promise to you and

660
00:34:27,850 --> 00:34:31,120
S2: your descendants doesn't necessarily mean I also made a similar

661
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,640
S2: promise to someone else. Nor does it keep me from

662
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,819
S2: choosing to do so for someone else later on. The

663
00:34:36,820 --> 00:34:40,060
S2: one really doesn't impact the other. Paul's just saying Israel

664
00:34:40,060 --> 00:34:43,000
S2: has a future because God made a solemn covenant with

665
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,640
S2: the patriarchs and God's gifts and his calling, he says,

666
00:34:45,670 --> 00:34:48,280
S2: are irrevocable. The good news for us is that God

667
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,069
S2: has also given us promises in the New Testament, and

668
00:34:51,070 --> 00:34:53,049
S2: we can depend on those as well.

669
00:34:53,140 --> 00:34:56,230
S1: Nancy takes us to Luke chapter 17, where it says,

670
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:59,290
S1: they answered and said to him, where, Lord? And he

671
00:34:59,290 --> 00:35:01,480
S1: said to them, wherever the body is, there the eagles

672
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,960
S1: will be gathered together. I've seen many different interpretations that

673
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,410
S1: seem quite confusing. Nancy wants to know what is the body.

674
00:35:08,410 --> 00:35:11,560
S1: Refer to the church. Someone who died in battle. What

675
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,140
S1: are the eagles or vultures symbolize? Is this an allusion

676
00:35:14,140 --> 00:35:17,230
S1: to the rapture, end times or or some past tragedy

677
00:35:17,230 --> 00:35:18,910
S1: that has already taken place?

678
00:35:18,940 --> 00:35:21,279
S2: Well, the phrase appears to be in the form of

679
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,589
S2: a proverb there, though the only other occurrence is in

680
00:35:23,590 --> 00:35:26,680
S2: Matthew 24. But in both cases, it seems the point

681
00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:28,299
S2: of the proverb is that if you want to know

682
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:31,540
S2: where the dead bodies are, look for vultures circling. Or

683
00:35:31,540 --> 00:35:33,820
S2: perhaps it could be understood this way. If you see

684
00:35:33,820 --> 00:35:37,149
S2: a flock of vultures circling overhead, we can assume something

685
00:35:37,150 --> 00:35:40,270
S2: dead must be somewhere nearby. On the ground below the

686
00:35:40,270 --> 00:35:43,540
S2: object we can see that is, the vultures flying overhead

687
00:35:43,540 --> 00:35:46,450
S2: point towards something that we might not otherwise be able

688
00:35:46,450 --> 00:35:49,690
S2: to see in the context in Luke 17. It's a

689
00:35:49,690 --> 00:35:53,680
S2: context of judgment. In verses 26 and 27, Jesus mentions

690
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,290
S2: the days of Noah, when a flood came and destroyed

691
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,200
S2: them in 28 and 29. He mentions the days of

692
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,529
S2: lot when fire and brimstone came and destroyed them. He

693
00:36:02,530 --> 00:36:05,500
S2: then compares all that to his return and the judgment

694
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:07,689
S2: it will bring the two people who are in a bed,

695
00:36:07,690 --> 00:36:10,410
S2: or two people who are grinding in verses 34 to

696
00:36:10,410 --> 00:36:13,210
S2: 36 represent those who will be alive at his return.

697
00:36:13,230 --> 00:36:16,290
S2: One taken is the one taken in judgment, like in

698
00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:18,450
S2: the flood or in Sodom. And the one who is

699
00:36:18,450 --> 00:36:20,939
S2: left like Noah or Lot is the one who's left

700
00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:23,370
S2: to remain alive. So I think what Jesus is doing

701
00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:26,040
S2: here isn't emphasizing where the judgment will take place or

702
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,080
S2: what the body is, but he's just giving an illustration

703
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,060
S2: to say, when you see the vultures, when you see

704
00:36:30,060 --> 00:36:33,120
S2: the events happening, you know that the judgment is coming.

705
00:36:33,150 --> 00:36:35,549
S1: Well, we've certainly covered a lot of ground today. Thank

706
00:36:35,580 --> 00:36:38,040
S1: you for your hard work on these questions. Yours is

707
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,900
S1: welcome any time at the land and the book@moody.edu. Well,

708
00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:45,330
S1: there's more to come in today's program, and that includes

709
00:36:45,330 --> 00:36:48,720
S1: Charlie Dyer's devotional. It's next right here on the land

710
00:36:48,719 --> 00:37:04,140
S1: and the book. Well, you don't need me to tell

711
00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:06,750
S1: you the end of the year is coming. Hi, I'm

712
00:37:06,750 --> 00:37:09,480
S1: John Gager here at the Land and the book. Do

713
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:10,770
S1: you ever think about the fact that you and I

714
00:37:10,770 --> 00:37:14,819
S1: might need wisdom to finish this year out, and of course,

715
00:37:14,820 --> 00:37:17,310
S1: wisdom as we begin another year. Charlie, is that the

716
00:37:17,310 --> 00:37:19,560
S1: essence of your devotional? I'm looking forward to it, by

717
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:20,520
S1: the way it is.

718
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:21,930
S2: We're going to talk about the end of the year

719
00:37:21,930 --> 00:37:26,040
S2: and New year and Wisdom and Solomon. They all fit together.

720
00:37:26,070 --> 00:37:28,170
S1: Okay, I'm looking forward to that after we take in

721
00:37:28,170 --> 00:37:30,120
S1: this Holy Land experience.

722
00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:36,810
S5: I was raised Jewish, so I had a totally different

723
00:37:36,810 --> 00:37:40,320
S5: experience than probably any of your listeners. I thought it

724
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,770
S5: was amazing. When I came back, I was more religious

725
00:37:43,770 --> 00:37:49,440
S5: as a Jew. And then in 1985, I had a

726
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,760
S5: conversion experience and became a Christian. The Lord totally called

727
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,700
S5: me to follow him and become his child of God.

728
00:37:57,090 --> 00:37:59,940
S5: And I have yet to go back as a Christian,

729
00:37:59,940 --> 00:38:03,600
S5: but I see Israel as a totally different place than

730
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,629
S5: I did as a Jew. One of my favorite experiences

731
00:38:06,660 --> 00:38:11,009
S5: was hiking up the top of Masada at three in

732
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,100
S5: the morning and watching the sun rise and learning all

733
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:18,780
S5: about how the battle. You know, the battle that was

734
00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:23,399
S5: fought there, they were under attack by Romans, and instead

735
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,399
S5: of losing, they all committed suicide. I thought it was

736
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,180
S5: noble at the time. That was pretty cool. Absolutely loved

737
00:38:30,180 --> 00:38:37,020
S5: Israel and said, Jesus's birthplace. I saw King David's tomb.

738
00:38:37,050 --> 00:38:40,230
S5: I saw lots of ruins. It was very, very, very

739
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:43,200
S5: beautiful place to visit. As I said, I'd like to

740
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,300
S5: go back there as a Christian because I would have

741
00:38:45,300 --> 00:38:48,960
S5: a totally different experience now. Thanks for letting me share.

742
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:53,489
S1: Charlie, I have to confess, I've never given thought to

743
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,819
S1: wisdom to finish the old year out. I'm looking forward

744
00:38:56,820 --> 00:38:58,350
S1: to that and what you have to say about the

745
00:38:58,350 --> 00:38:59,070
S1: new Year.

746
00:38:59,100 --> 00:39:02,310
S2: Yeah. Thanks, John. Well, the orchestra is on stage tuning

747
00:39:02,310 --> 00:39:05,160
S2: up and getting ready to play. The noisemakers and party

748
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:08,609
S2: hats are arranged on the tables by each place setting,

749
00:39:08,610 --> 00:39:11,669
S2: and the guests are already milling about out in the foyer,

750
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:14,880
S2: waiting for the banquet doors to open. It's almost time

751
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,820
S2: to gather and celebrate the ringing out of an old year,

752
00:39:17,820 --> 00:39:20,400
S2: and the ringing in of a new one. Most of

753
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,980
S2: those gathering are more than ready to say goodbye to

754
00:39:23,010 --> 00:39:27,000
S2: the old year. It started last January 1st with such promise,

755
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,130
S2: but in so many ways it failed to live up

756
00:39:29,130 --> 00:39:32,640
S2: to its potential, and each person arriving tonight has his

757
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,270
S2: or her own reasons to feel less than nostalgic over

758
00:39:36,270 --> 00:39:39,120
S2: this past year coming to an end. For some, it

759
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,250
S2: was the loss of a loved one, or the loss

760
00:39:41,250 --> 00:39:44,580
S2: of a job, or the tragic breakup of a relationship,

761
00:39:44,580 --> 00:39:49,620
S2: or an unexpected illness, or serious financial setback or or well,

762
00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:52,830
S2: the circumstances are unique to each person coming through the doors,

763
00:39:52,830 --> 00:39:56,310
S2: but the year certainly had its share of hurt and heartache,

764
00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:59,009
S2: and on this New Year's Eve, most hope the next

765
00:39:59,010 --> 00:40:02,130
S2: year will somehow be different. As we take our seats,

766
00:40:02,130 --> 00:40:05,730
S2: we notice an old, distinguished looking gentleman seated next to us.

767
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,089
S2: We introduce ourselves and discover this is none other than

768
00:40:09,090 --> 00:40:12,840
S2: the wise King Solomon. Taking advantage of the opportunity, we

769
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,910
S2: turn to him and say, so, do you have any

770
00:40:14,910 --> 00:40:16,770
S2: words of wisdom for us as we get ready to

771
00:40:16,770 --> 00:40:20,160
S2: start a new year? We're somewhat taken aback when he says,

772
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,030
S2: rather cryptically, there's a time for everything and a season

773
00:40:24,030 --> 00:40:28,020
S2: for every activity under heaven. Well, that's true, we respond.

774
00:40:28,020 --> 00:40:30,930
S2: But exactly what kind of times or seasons might the

775
00:40:30,930 --> 00:40:34,200
S2: new year bring? We try to pin Solomon down to

776
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:36,930
S2: get his read on the economy or world affairs, or

777
00:40:36,930 --> 00:40:40,770
S2: maybe even our own personal circumstances. But Solomon proves to

778
00:40:40,770 --> 00:40:43,230
S2: be as elusive as trying to pick up a drop

779
00:40:43,230 --> 00:40:46,680
S2: of oil between two fingers. Turning to look directly into

780
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,520
S2: our eyes, he compresses the entire new year into 14

781
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,510
S2: pairs of opposites, encompassing all of life. The new Year

782
00:40:54,510 --> 00:40:56,910
S2: will be a time to be born and a time

783
00:40:56,910 --> 00:40:59,850
S2: to die. A time to plant, and a time to uproot,

784
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,160
S2: a time to kill and a time to heal. A

785
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,770
S2: time to tear down and a time to build. A

786
00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:07,319
S2: time to weep and a time to laugh. A time

787
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,690
S2: to mourn and a time to dance. A time to

788
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,750
S2: scatter stones and a time to gather them. A time

789
00:41:12,750 --> 00:41:15,600
S2: to embrace and a time to refrain. A time to

790
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:18,000
S2: search and a time to give up. A time to

791
00:41:18,030 --> 00:41:20,130
S2: keep and a time to throw away. A time to

792
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,379
S2: tear and a time to mend. A time to be

793
00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:25,020
S2: silent and a time to speak. A time to love

794
00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:27,630
S2: and a time to hate. A time for war and

795
00:41:27,630 --> 00:41:32,340
S2: a time for peace. Initially we're at a loss for words.

796
00:41:32,370 --> 00:41:35,280
S2: We were hoping for some golden nuggets of wisdom that

797
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,920
S2: could help us become more healthy, wealthy, and wise in

798
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,279
S2: the coming New Year. But instead, Solomon has reminded us

799
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:42,870
S2: that there will be times in the New Year that

800
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:46,170
S2: will bring both joy and sorrow that will result in

801
00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:49,920
S2: healing and death. Our emotions will span the gamut from

802
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,820
S2: love to hate. Countries will experience both war and peace.

803
00:41:53,850 --> 00:41:56,580
S2: In other words, next year will be very much like

804
00:41:56,580 --> 00:41:59,640
S2: the one just ending. But just as we start to

805
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,570
S2: wrap our minds around these conflicting actions and emotions, Solomon

806
00:42:03,570 --> 00:42:08,190
S2: adds two other truths to this already complex equation. First,

807
00:42:08,219 --> 00:42:10,649
S2: all our effort and toil to get ahead, to reach

808
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,650
S2: our own personal goals of life, liberty and the pursuit

809
00:42:13,650 --> 00:42:18,239
S2: of happiness will end up falling short and leaving us unsatisfied.

810
00:42:18,270 --> 00:42:22,080
S2: Solomon immediately goes to the bottom line what does the

811
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,990
S2: worker gain from his toil? No matter how hard a

812
00:42:24,989 --> 00:42:30,390
S2: person works, results can be elusive. Sometimes something unexpected can

813
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:33,779
S2: come along to undermine the business or the property or

814
00:42:33,780 --> 00:42:36,630
S2: the family. And no matter how tightly someone tries to

815
00:42:36,660 --> 00:42:39,270
S2: hang on to all the stuff of life, in the

816
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:42,000
S2: end he or she must leave it all behind. Death

817
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,270
S2: is certain, and no one can carry their material possessions

818
00:42:45,270 --> 00:42:49,770
S2: into eternity. Solomon's Second Truth focuses on the reality that

819
00:42:49,770 --> 00:42:52,560
S2: God has arranged life in a way that causes everything

820
00:42:52,590 --> 00:42:56,759
S2: to be beautiful, or perhaps appropriate in its time. And

821
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,480
S2: because of our God designed nature, we innately understand this

822
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,420
S2: to be true. He has also set eternity in the

823
00:43:03,420 --> 00:43:06,200
S2: hearts of men, but this truth only leads to more

824
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,830
S2: frustration on our part, because he says, we cannot fathom

825
00:43:09,830 --> 00:43:12,470
S2: what God has done from beginning to end. We can

826
00:43:12,469 --> 00:43:14,840
S2: see all the different pieces of life, and we get

827
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:18,140
S2: glimpses of how all those pieces must somehow fit together.

828
00:43:18,140 --> 00:43:20,840
S2: But try as we might, we can't get all the

829
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,560
S2: pieces to match up. The sheer complexity of life overwhelms

830
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,400
S2: our ability to see the entire picture. The orchestra is

831
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,950
S2: working its way through all the songs as the clock

832
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:33,980
S2: heads toward midnight. Before very long, it will be time

833
00:43:33,980 --> 00:43:36,950
S2: for them to begin playing Auld Lang Syne, and people

834
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:40,820
S2: will start singing and blowing their noisemakers. But frankly, we're

835
00:43:40,820 --> 00:43:43,969
S2: too depressed right now to care. We're trying to wrap

836
00:43:43,969 --> 00:43:48,110
S2: our arms around the disturbing truths presented by Solomon. We

837
00:43:48,140 --> 00:43:51,440
S2: finally blurt out, okay, is this what you're saying? This

838
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,899
S2: next year will be pretty much like the past year,

839
00:43:53,900 --> 00:43:56,720
S2: and like the one before that, because all of life

840
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,540
S2: is a mixture of joy and sadness. It'll be a

841
00:43:59,540 --> 00:44:02,180
S2: year of births and deaths, of hatred and hope, of

842
00:44:02,180 --> 00:44:05,000
S2: weeping and laughing. There are struggles where we'll need to

843
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,089
S2: keep searching for answers, and others where we finally need

844
00:44:08,090 --> 00:44:10,610
S2: to acknowledge the hopelessness of it all and give up.

845
00:44:10,610 --> 00:44:13,190
S2: And no matter how hard we try, we'll never be

846
00:44:13,219 --> 00:44:15,169
S2: able to reach a point where we can say we

847
00:44:15,170 --> 00:44:17,840
S2: have it all together, or that we've arrived, or that

848
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,300
S2: we finally understand how it all works. Is that what

849
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:25,549
S2: you're saying? Touching our arm, Solomon quietly says, yes, that's

850
00:44:25,550 --> 00:44:28,520
S2: what I'm saying. Then how in the world can I

851
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,130
S2: find the wisdom to make it through such a confusing,

852
00:44:31,130 --> 00:44:34,670
S2: frustrating New Year? And with the kind smile of a

853
00:44:34,670 --> 00:44:37,250
S2: man who lived through all the ups and downs of life,

854
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:41,120
S2: Solomon leans in and says, by remembering this, there is

855
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,370
S2: nothing better for men than to be happy and do

856
00:44:43,370 --> 00:44:46,100
S2: good while they live. That everyone may eat and drink

857
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:49,130
S2: and find satisfaction in all his toil. This is the

858
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,069
S2: gift of God. I know that everything God does will

859
00:44:52,070 --> 00:44:54,980
S2: endure forever. Nothing can be added to it and nothing

860
00:44:55,010 --> 00:44:58,760
S2: taken from it. God does it so men will Revere him.

861
00:44:58,969 --> 00:45:02,150
S2: Don't miss my three secrets for living a wise life

862
00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:05,960
S2: in a confusing world first. Don't spend your time trying

863
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,650
S2: to pursue happiness. Learn to be satisfied with what you have.

864
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,700
S2: Enjoy the blessings God has already provided rather than pushing

865
00:45:13,730 --> 00:45:17,780
S2: to acquire more stuff. Trust me, stuff doesn't provide long

866
00:45:17,810 --> 00:45:22,400
S2: term satisfaction. Second view where you are, what you have,

867
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,220
S2: and what you do as gifts from God, and learn

868
00:45:25,219 --> 00:45:28,700
S2: to be thankful for his gracious provision. Learn to enjoy

869
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:32,750
S2: what he has provided. And third, be willing to admit

870
00:45:32,750 --> 00:45:35,720
S2: you are not God. He understands how life works, but

871
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,600
S2: you don't. Trying to put all the pieces together will

872
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,630
S2: only frustrate you. What he has done is what will

873
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:45,230
S2: endure forever. Just be sure to Revere him by putting

874
00:45:45,230 --> 00:45:48,230
S2: him first in your life. As we rise from the

875
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:50,570
S2: table and head toward the door, we leave with a

876
00:45:50,570 --> 00:45:53,960
S2: wisdom we didn't possess before. We understand the New Year

877
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,419
S2: will be filled with the same highs and lows as

878
00:45:56,420 --> 00:46:00,350
S2: the year just ending. Blind optimism has been replaced with

879
00:46:00,350 --> 00:46:03,259
S2: clear eyed realism. We know that the goal is not

880
00:46:03,260 --> 00:46:07,009
S2: to pursue happiness and strive to acquire more stuff, hoping

881
00:46:07,010 --> 00:46:09,739
S2: to get ahead. We've replaced that with a plan to

882
00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:12,860
S2: enjoy what God does provide. To take pleasure in the

883
00:46:12,860 --> 00:46:16,340
S2: tasks he places before us, and to focus on learning

884
00:46:16,340 --> 00:46:19,940
S2: how to trust him more fully as the year goes on.

885
00:46:19,940 --> 00:46:22,549
S2: And that is indeed a wise way to end this

886
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:25,310
S2: year and to move on into the new one.

887
00:46:25,370 --> 00:46:28,670
S1: Wow, great perspective there. Thank you. Charlie, I found myself

888
00:46:28,670 --> 00:46:31,130
S1: as I'm listening to you, just wishing I was there

889
00:46:31,130 --> 00:46:33,290
S1: in the room with Solomon. But in a sense, every

890
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,080
S1: time we open the book and read that passage, we

891
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,009
S1: really are right.

892
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:38,750
S2: That's exactly right. Yeah.

893
00:46:38,780 --> 00:46:41,240
S1: Well, it's been a great broadcast. I hope you enjoyed it.

894
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,390
S1: Our host, doctor Charlie Dyer. I'm John Gager. Dan Anderson,

895
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:46,549
S1: our producer. All three of us say thank you to

896
00:46:46,580 --> 00:46:49,190
S1: you for carving out time to be with us here

897
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:52,339
S1: at The Land and the book, a production of Moody Radio,

898
00:46:52,370 --> 00:46:54,890
S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.