S1: Hello friends. It's time for the second hour of Open
S1: Line with Doctor Michael Ray Moody Radio's Bible Study Across America.
S1: We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God and
S1: the spiritual life. My name is Michael Ray. I'm academic
S1: dean and a professor of Jewish studies and Bible at
S1: Moody Bible Institute. We're live today sitting around the radio
S1: kitchen table taking your questions. Now is the time to
S1: give me a call. Always best at the beginning of
S1: an hour. Lots of open line open phone lines here.
S1: Free waiting for your call. The phone number. Write this down. (877) 548-3675.
S1: That's (877) 548-3675. Remember, if you can't call, you can always
S1: go to our website, Open Line radio.org and click on
S1: Ask Michael a question. You can leave your question there
S1: and Trish will put it in the mailbag. I want
S1: to thank Trish our producer. She our senior producer. She
S1: was loath to tell me that the other day I said,
S1: you're not just a producer, you're senior producer. And anyway,
S1: she posted a link to, uh, information about Avner Boesky,
S1: who I interviewed in the first segment of the first
S1: our first and second segments. I encourage you go back
S1: and check that out. Listen to that interview. Avner has
S1: been serving in Israel for about 40 years, and a
S1: great friend of mine, and brilliant insights into what's going
S1: on and how to read Scripture in a way to
S1: understand what's going on. So do check out that interview
S1: and thanks, Trish for posting the links to Avner's information. And.
S1: Now also, uh. I wanted to, uh, invite. He's not
S1: a caller. Callers are coming in. We got plenty of callers.
S1: Keep calling, though. (877) 548-3675. But Omar Mendoza, our engineer, asked
S1: me a question on the break. I said, that's a
S1: good question. People are wondering that, too. So, Omar, you
S1: have a question. Why don't you go ahead and ask it?
S2: Yeah, I do have a question. Um, so, uh, what
S2: was the straw that broke the camel's back, which led
S2: Israel to launch the strike?
S1: Okay. Why did Israel strike Iran? Now, this has been
S1: an issue for 20 years, since they began the plans
S1: in Iran to have a nuclear weapon. And Israel is
S1: Benjamin Netanyahu's whole career, his second time in office and
S1: his now his third time. He's had three different times
S1: he's been in office. He has been railing about the
S1: danger of Iran getting a nuclear weapon. Why now? Well,
S1: a couple of things. One, President Trump told the Iranian
S1: government that they had 60 days to make an agreement
S1: with the United States. They were negotiating. And amazingly, they
S1: just the Iranian government just dawdled and dawdled. They were
S1: trying to protract as much as long as they could
S1: the negotiations so they could get to the nuclear bomb
S1: without having been stopped. And so President Trump gave them
S1: an ultimatum. He said, you have 60 days to negotiate something.
S1: Day 61 is when this happened. So once again, Iran
S1: was trying to protract the negotiations. Secondly, Israeli intelligence, which
S1: is outstanding. I don't know if you realize how much
S1: in this assault was carried out at the initial level
S1: by the Mossad. I'm sure you saw the information that they.
S1: The Mossad set up, uh, drone factory. A drone factory
S1: right in Iran, so that the opening assault, which was
S1: by drones, were from drones that they built right there
S1: in Iran. Amazing. And they knew precisely where the heads
S1: of all the military agencies were. Uh, the information, the
S1: intelligence they receive is excellent. And the intelligence that Israel
S1: had was that they were not months or years away,
S1: but days or weeks away from producing nuclear warheads. Uh,
S1: the number varied from 9 to 15. Uh, they thought,
S1: but they were right on the cusp. They were on
S1: the verge of creating nuclear warheads. And the government of
S1: Israel could not risk a nuclear Iran. And that's what
S1: began this assault. And so it was being so close
S1: and giving. I think they were very respectful of Donald Trump,
S1: the president of the United States, and they said he
S1: wants 60 days. We're going to wait 60 days. And
S1: that's why that's why it happened precisely on the 61st day.
S2: Got it. Okay. Yeah. Thank you.
S1: Great. Hey, thanks for that. That's a great question. I
S1: thought other people were asking it to Omar. So thank
S1: you for asking that. Uh, Colin in Georgia listening to
S1: w w m e. Welcome to Open Line. How can
S1: I help you today?
S3: Hello. Um, I'm a question about, uh, Joshua 1301. Um,
S3: Joshua 12 talks about all the kings that Joshua and
S3: Israel defeated in the land. Joshua, 31, says Joshua became
S3: very old, and there was still a lot of land
S3: that wasn't defeated or conquered. So is that saying something
S3: like Ecclesiastes, that there's a lot of work to be
S3: done and just have a lot of work to be done?
S3: Or is that something like Prophet Elisha did a lot
S3: of good things, but he still didn't cause revival. So
S3: what sort of thing is it trying to say that
S3: he got old, but he still didn't conquer a lot
S3: of land. Joshua 13 one he says.
S1: You have become become old, getting on in years, but
S1: a great deal of the land remains to be possessed.
S1: I think that's important. So then that takes us right
S1: to the valedictory address, the final address of Joshua in
S1: Joshua 24, where he recounts the history of Israel. And
S1: then he says, as for me and my house, we
S1: will follow the Lord. That's what he says. Uh, he said,
S1: choose this day for yourselves, the one you will worship.
S1: The gods your fathers worshiped beyond the Euphrates, the false gods.
S1: But as for me and my family. We will worship
S1: the Lord. We will serve the Lord and the. So
S1: he challenges the people to go on with the Lord,
S1: and then he dies. And then he goes on, uh,
S1: the the story goes on. You can pick it up
S1: in the book of judges, where the people have these
S1: cycles of sin and then repentance, restoration, uh, and so forth. Um,
S1: here's what it tells me is until the Lord returns
S1: were not the end of the story, God has lots
S1: of work to do. We serve him as best we
S1: can in our days and then someone else goes on.
S1: I just made the decision. I mentioned this recently. Uh,
S1: I became the dean a few years ago, and we
S1: brought in a new Jewish studies professor. I've been Jewish
S1: studies professor at Moody now for 32 years, almost. And
S1: but it was time for a new one. And we
S1: have a great new Jewish studies professor, uh, Michael Gabizon.
S1: And then not only that, but I thought my time.
S1: Really I need to focus on some other areas of ministry,
S1: and I've retired from education. I'm not going to be
S1: the dean after June 30th and after June 30th July 1st.
S1: I will focus more on radio and conference ministry with Moody,
S1: and that's what I'm going to be doing. The point is,
S1: I am grateful that I get to serve the Lord
S1: in another way. But sometimes we have to pass on
S1: the ministry, uh, to the next person. And then we
S1: after it's been passed on to us, we pass it
S1: on to the next person and the next person, right
S1: until the Lord returns. And that's the message there with
S1: Joshua in Joshua 13, one that help Colin.
S3: Well, one reason why it's interesting because people always say
S3: things like, well, if Moses didn't hit the rock, he
S3: could have done so much like go to prom or something.
S3: If David didn't do it, did the right, he could
S3: have done so much. But if Joshua could only do
S3: so much, then how much did all these things? Well,
S3: if David didn't do well, he could have done that.
S3: And all this.
S1: It seems to me that Moses probably could have led
S1: the people into the land and then turned it over
S1: to Joshua. But God disciplined him. It could have been
S1: that maybe David could have been more successful in the
S1: second half of his life, the second half of his reign,
S1: had he not had that, uh, mess up, uh, with
S1: Bathsheba and with Uriah? So, uh, that's not saying that
S1: that just because we have to pass on the ministry
S1: from time to time, uh, at the near the end
S1: of our lives, uh, you know, I'm looking right now
S1: at the last phase of my life. I want to
S1: end well. But, uh, that doesn't mean that if I
S1: messed up, I couldn't shorten the ministry that I might have,
S1: or maybe diminish the ministry that I might have had.
S1: That's what we see with. With David and with Moses. Okay, Colin.
S3: Thank you very much. Thank you.
S1: Yeah. Thanks for your call. Appreciate it. Uh, Jim in Albany, Georgia.
S4: Hi, doctor.
S1: Robert listening on Zeke. I don't think I've ever seen
S1: that station name. So glad you're listening. How can I
S1: help you?
S4: Um, I have a question from Isaiah 65 and verse 20.
S4: And if I can read that out of the NIV,
S4: it says, never again will there be in it an
S4: infant who lives but a few days, or an old
S4: man who lives, who does not live out his years?
S4: He who dies at a hundred will be thought a
S4: mere youth. He who fails to reach a hundred will
S4: be considered accursed. Now this is during the millennial period,
S4: and at the end of the millennium, there is one
S4: final resurrection of of of dead people who face the.
S1: Just go ahead with your question. What? What is it
S1: that you're wondering?
S5: I'm wondering.
S4: I'm wondering if those who died during the millennium are
S4: considered to be unsaved and will be consigned to the
S4: lake of fire?
S1: You know what? I'm going to leave the decision about?
S1: Who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, who
S1: goes to the lake of fire and the Lord. Here's
S1: what I understand about this. All that it's telling us
S1: is that, uh, generally speaking, people will live long. If
S1: they sin, they will die earlier, uh, so that a
S1: hundred will be considered. If a person dies at 100,
S1: this verse that you're looking at, uh, if a person
S1: dies at 100, they will be considered like a young person, right?
S1: Isn't that what it's saying? Yeah. And they will be.
S1: And the, uh, when it says that, they would be accursed, um,
S1: it says indeed, the youth will die at 100 years,
S1: and the one who misses 100 years will be cursed.
S1: And the idea there in 6520 is that it appears
S1: to be. I don't know if it's an eternal, but
S1: someone has done something wrong, and there's a curse upon
S1: their lives. And it could happen that the Lord will
S1: take even a believer earlier if there's some sort of
S1: serious sin. I would suspect that that's mostly there are
S1: people who are going to be saved in the millennium
S1: because they're going to be born in the millennium. They'll
S1: have to put their trust in Jesus. There will be
S1: people who don't put their trust in Jesus. And then
S1: they when the resurrection happens at the Great White Throne,
S1: they will be among those who are cast into the
S1: lake of fire. But, you know, I I'm just presuming that. Okay.
S4: But if they are, if they are believers and they die.
S4: Then what's the what's the standing at the White Throne judgment.
S1: There won't be if they're believers when they die. Everyone's
S1: going to die because they're going to be people born
S1: in the millennium. Uh, there will be people. There will
S1: be glorified bodies in the millennium, and there will be
S1: people who are born, uh, that enter the millennium as
S1: mortals without being resurrected. They will marry. They will have children.
S1: And so everyone's going to have to die or be translated.
S1: That's that's what we know. Translated into an immortal body.
S1: So are we.
S4: To are we to understand that those people who enter
S4: and those people who are born in the millennium, will
S4: live out the entire millennial reign?
S1: Bible doesn't tell us. It just says that if they
S1: die at 100, they'll be considered young.
S4: So I still don't understand. Well, if been raised at
S4: the end of. at the end of.
S1: Let me just. I'm going to start again. Maybe this
S1: will explain it. Okay. Israel waiting for the Lord to
S1: return at the end of the tribulation period. The the.
S1: They will enter those who are saved. They will enter
S1: the kingdom without being resurrected or translated. Uh, they will
S1: enter the Millennial Kingdom. The nations that that, uh, the
S1: sheep will enter the kingdom without having been resurrected or translated.
S1: So they will be mortal. They will be. Then, uh,
S1: they will live there. They will marry. They have, uh, children. Everyone,
S1: all their children will have to trust the Lord, uh,
S1: sometime in their lifespan. Some will, some won't. But everyone,
S1: they'll have longer life spans. Some may die. They'll be
S1: resurrected at the same time as the lost being resurrected. Uh, there.
S1: Some will be translated, I presume, but the Bible doesn't
S1: speak to it. Uh, but there will be believers who
S1: will die in the kingdom, but they will live very,
S1: very long lives. Okay, I that's the best I can
S1: tell from what Scripture says. Okay, Jim.
S4: Okay, thanks.
S1: Okay. Uh, let me just caution us to say, you know,
S1: there are some details that the Bible just doesn't specify. Uh,
S1: and that's the best we can tell from going into
S1: the kingdom. Uh, you know, but the main thing is
S1: to be ready to go to the kingdom by trusting
S1: in Jesus. That's what I would say. Uh, well, we're
S1: going to be right back with, uh, more of your
S1: questions in just a moment. This is open line with
S1: Michael Ray Dolan. Welcome back to Open Line. I, I
S1: so appreciate people who want to study the Bible and
S1: understand it more and more. And what I encourage everyone
S1: to do is to build a Bible study library. Uh,
S1: and I think one of the essential books we need
S1: is a good Bible dictionary. And that's because sometimes we
S1: read a text, we might wonder, who are these people?
S1: Or where's that place mentioned, or what? What's this event?
S1: What's this holy day that seems to be mentioned? And
S1: so our current resource is a really handy Bible dictionary.
S1: It's called the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. It's published by BNA publishers,
S1: the very same publisher that produced the Holman CSB, which,
S1: as you know, is my favorite Bible translation. And when
S1: you give a gift of any size, we'd like to
S1: say thanks by sending you the Ultimate Bible Dictionary as
S1: a just way of saying thank you, thank you, thank you.
S1: We appreciate you so much. And I do want you
S1: to know that this is a pretty crucial time for
S1: Moody Radio. Uh, it'd be a great time to send
S1: a gift. It's the end of our fiscal year this month.
S1: And if you can send a gift now, boy, it
S1: would help us stay solvent and strong, uh, for the
S1: next year. And so we so appreciate your gifts, but
S1: I am really excited that I get to send this
S1: as a thank you. The ultimate Bible dictionary. It's easy
S1: to carry, easy to use. It's just a great resource.
S1: And if you've never given to open line boy, we
S1: appreciate it if you would, but especially because this is
S1: a resource that you don't want to miss. If you'd
S1: like a copy, it's yours with a gift of any
S1: size by going to our website, Open Line Radio. Org
S1: that's where you can give or you can call (888) 644-7122.
S1: And we thank you so much. Uh, we're going to
S1: talk to Savannah in South Carolina. Uh, thank you for calling. Uh,
S1: how can I help you today?
S6: Um. So my husband and I would like to know
S6: how we know that God has answered our prayers and
S6: how we've heard from him. Our faith has been rocked
S6: because we think there is an answer and we think
S6: we're following him. But we're left questioning and doubting because
S6: everything falls through. We don't know what to do.
S1: Uh, you know, are you dealing with health or. Well,
S1: I'm not sure what what you're what you're talking about. Just.
S6: Um. We followed. We thought, God, um, 16 months ago
S6: to leave our house in Florida and moved to South Carolina.
S6: And that house hasn't sold in Florida. And so we're struggling, um, financially, obviously,
S6: but also, like, why are we here? Are we supposed
S6: to go back? We pray. We read, we ask for wisdom.
S6: We just don't know what to do. So I was
S6: hoping you could help me.
S1: Well, uh. Okay. Uh, I understand how you feel. Uh,
S1: you know, I think everyone knows that there are times
S1: in our lives that are like this that we think
S1: we're following the Lord in one direction, and something may happen. I.
S1: I don't know whether you should go back to Florida. You,
S1: you know, or. That's not what I would say. Here's, uh,
S1: here's what I feel. Last week, I mentioned this in
S1: the opening word that I do at the first hour
S1: that in the book of Exodus, it says that God
S1: didn't want to send the people of Israel on the
S1: fast route, uh, through, uh, Gaza up into the promised land, uh,
S1: because they weren't ready and they'd be intimidated and they
S1: would be scared. And so what he did is he
S1: sent the people instead via the long way through the
S1: Sinai desert. Um, now what? What's the point in math?
S1: We say the closest distance between two points is a
S1: straight line. But I really believe with the Lord that
S1: the closest distance with two points is usually a zig zag.
S1: What what God is doing is he's building our faith,
S1: building our our endurance, our spiritual, uh, dependence on him.
S1: And so when when we go these through these tough
S1: times where things aren't, uh, uh, things aren't going exactly the,
S1: the way that we feel that they should we have
S1: to remember that, first of all, the Lord Jesus promised,
S1: in this world you will have tribulation. Why would he
S1: promise that? Uh, in John 16? Well, the reason is
S1: because it is through tribulation difficulties, challenges, that we learn
S1: dependence on God and it stretches our faith. And without
S1: faith it's impossible to please him. So, Savannah, all I'm
S1: trying to say to you is God has a purpose
S1: for what's going on. There's also a promise in Scripture
S1: that God will work all things together for good, for
S1: those who love him and are called according to his purpose.
S1: That's Romans 828. It may seem like that's not true,
S1: but it is. And what he's doing is he's teaching
S1: you greater and greater dependence on him. Uh, and I
S1: would say take your solace, your comfort. Receive it by, uh,
S1: studying the Psalms, seeing how God has encouraged people, uh, historically, uh,
S1: in the word of God through their laments that they
S1: many of the Psalms are psalms of lament and you
S1: can pray those prayers of lament as well and seek
S1: God's direction. Also pray that God would give you confidence
S1: in him despite the challenges. And as I said in
S1: last week's opening word, the way you get to the
S1: goal is by fixing our eyes on Jesus. Hebrews 12
S1: one and two. Keep your eyes focused on Jesus, trusting
S1: him through a really, really tough time. And I know
S1: it's a tough time. I hear it in your voice,
S1: but know that God still has a good plan. Even
S1: with the challenge you're facing. He's building your your trust
S1: and faith in him. I hope that helps a little bit. Savannah. Okay.
S6: Yes. Thank you.
S1: Okay. Uh. Call back. Let me know how God delivers you. Okay.
S6: I will.
S1: Okay, thanks. Okay. Uh, we'll, uh, we'll talk to Susie now,
S1: listening on the Good News Network. Welcome to Open Line, Suzy.
S1: How can I help you?
S7: Oh, thank you, doctor, for taking my call. I try
S7: to listen to you almost every Saturday and we are
S7: kitchen table partners. Thank you. We we do listen to, uh,
S7: a Bible teacher we have for years, and he seems
S7: to be pretty accurate, but he tells been telling us
S7: over and over that there are two gospels he teaches.
S7: There's the gospel of the kingdom for the Jewish people,
S7: and there's the gospel of grace for the Gentiles, which
S7: the gospel of grace he gives us. First Corinthians 15
S7: one through four. And so we're not sure he's accurate
S7: in that. I was wondering what you think.
S1: Well, first of all, the word gospel just means good news.
S1: And so, uh, the when the Gospels, the the four
S1: memoirs that the evangelists had about their walk with Jesus, right? Matthew, Mark,
S1: Luke and John. They talk about the gospel of the kingdom.
S1: The gospel of the kingdom was that when the King appeared,
S1: if they would follow him, the kingdom of God would arrive.
S1: And that's what the gospel of the kingdom was.
S7: If they would recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
S1: Yeah, that was the gospel of the kingdom. The good
S1: news of the kingdom. The Kingdom of God is at hand.
S1: If they had accepted the king, the kingdom would have begun. Correct.
S1: And but for those who did, everyone didn't reject it.
S1: The kingdom that is not of this world did begin.
S1: We are followers of the King living in a spiritual
S1: kingdom right now. But there will be a spiritual and
S1: physical kingdom when? When the Lord returns. But, uh, the
S1: the the message of grace has always been true in
S1: the Bible. Uh, there's grace in the Old Testament. We've
S1: always been saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus. Well,
S1: by grace through faith in the revealed will of God.
S1: Now the Messiah has come. We have to believe that
S1: Jesus died for us and rose again. Now, uh, this
S1: idea that the gospel of grace is for the Gentiles.
S1: How would that fit with Romans 116 where Paul says,
S1: I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is
S1: the power of God for salvation, first for the Jew
S1: and also for the Greek. That's the gospel, that Jesus
S1: died for us and rose again. Paul doesn't distinguish that.
S1: He doesn't say, that's the one for the Gentiles. He
S1: says it's pre-eminently a Jewish message. That's what first means
S1: preeminently a Jewish message, but one also for the for
S1: the Greeks, it's for everyone. Uh, so I would say
S1: be careful about this teacher. I think he's, uh, dividing.
S1: I think it sounds to me like he is what
S1: is called an ultra or a hyper dispensationalist. And so
S1: be cautious about that, okay? Uh, we're going to take
S1: a break here. Thanks for your call, Susie. When we
S1: come back, we've got the mailbag coming up, the Febc mailbag.
S1: So stay with us. This is open line with Michael Zelnick.
S1: We'll be right back. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm
S1: Michael Radonich. So glad to be with you. It's time
S1: for the Febc mailbag. Right now, the Far Eastern Broadcasting
S1: Company partners with Open Line to bring you the mailbag
S1: every week. We so appreciate them. It's a wonderful ministry
S1: that brings the gospel to people through radio and and
S1: other digital means, as well as through personal engagement. If
S1: you want to check out what they're doing, it's a
S1: wonderful ministry to know about, go to Phoebe. That's Phoebe. Org.
S1: Check out their podcast Until All I've Heard featuring Ed Cannon.
S1: And joining me right now with the Febc mailbag, dragging
S1: it in is producer of Openline, Tricia McMillan. That bag
S1: is getting bigger all the time.
S8: It is, it is. I think we're due for a
S8: mailbag program this summer. Yeah, that'd be good to do.
S1: Got to do that. That'd be great. So, uh, well, let's, uh,
S1: I do want to say this before we do anything
S1: else that I love working with you. And I thought
S1: it was so great when I heard Mike Weber's a
S1: few weeks ago, he was talking about how great it
S1: is to work with you. That's really a great team program.
S1: Omar's terrific to work with. We have a great time
S1: with him and I get him to laugh sometimes, which
S1: is always fun. Uh, when he's. I see him on
S1: the screen laughing at something I'm saying, which I'm glad
S1: to know that someone gets it when I. It's it's
S1: it's part of the team effort. And I really appreciate
S1: our whole team. The people who listen, people who give occasionally.
S1: And also there are kitchen table partners. They're part of
S1: the team they give. I think it's very sacrificial and
S1: I'm really grateful for it because they give monthly so
S1: we can be on the air weekly. And what we
S1: do is we send a Bible study moment. It's a
S1: it's an audio Bible study prepared exclusively for our kitchen
S1: table partners. They get it in the email, click on it.
S1: And if you become a kitchen table partner, you'll be
S1: able to listen to these ten minutes or so Bible
S1: study moments on every other week basis. And I hope
S1: you'll consider that if you'd like to become a kitchen
S1: table partner, call (888) 644-7122. Or go to Open Line Radio. Org. Okay. Tricia,
S1: what have you got for me now?
S8: All right. Our first question is from Daniel on Facebook.
S8: Who listens to the Moody Radio app, which you can
S8: find in your app store. It is free. You can
S8: listen to it. It's great. It is? Yeah. Um, he
S8: wants to know if you can clarify what the term
S8: ordination means. Um, as part of this, he's trying to
S8: understand the qualifications to hold the title of pastor. And
S8: is that different than the qualifications for an elder, or
S8: is it the same?
S1: Okay. Well, first of all, the word ordination does not
S1: appear in the Bible any more than the word Trinity.
S1: But it's true. There is ordination, but it's described just
S1: as the Trinity is described. And that's how the word
S1: Trinity came to be known. Uh, ordination, for example, in
S1: acts 13 it says set apart Barnabas and Paul Saul
S1: for the work that I have for them. Uh, you've got, uh,
S1: for example, in, uh, in the Timothy's there's several examples
S1: about this in first Timothy 414, for example, uh, it says, uh, Paul, uh,
S1: I'm looking in the wrong book. There we go. This
S1: is the problem. First Timothy 414 says, do not neglect
S1: the gift that is in you. It was given to
S1: you through prophecy, with the laying on of hands by
S1: the Council of elders. So the gift may be referring
S1: to a spiritual gift that became evident when Timothy was
S1: set apart for ministry, ordained for ministry, and then first
S1: Timothy five uh 22. Don't be too quick to appoint
S1: or to lay hands on. That's what the phrase is
S1: to lay hands on literally, or to ordain anyone as
S1: an elder and don't share in the sins of others.
S1: Keep yourself pure, so don't be too quick to name
S1: anyone an elder that to lay hands on someone is
S1: to ordain them. And there are various places like that, um, that, uh,
S1: that we can be aware of. Uh, first, second Timothy
S1: one six is also, uh, a place where you could
S1: see that it says, uh, Paul reminds Timothy to keep
S1: ablaze the gift of God that is in you through
S1: the laying on of my hands. So I think the
S1: phrase that that we're talking about is actually to lay
S1: on hands. And, uh, now the question was asked, what
S1: about the qualifications for elder? Are they different than a pastor? No.
S1: The qualifications for a pastor found or an elder are
S1: found in first Timothy three, um, uh, and then also
S1: in Titus one. And there are these different characters. It's
S1: they really deal with character, competence and conviction, the character
S1: or things like someone who's not pugnacious, not a fighter. Uh,
S1: so their character issues like that. Then there's also, uh, competence.
S1: He has to be apt to teach, uh, and he
S1: has to hold true to the faith. And so there's,
S1: there are these qualifications that's true for elder or pastor.
S1: I think the word pastor is only found in first
S1: Peter five, where it says, Shepherd the flock of God
S1: among you. That's addressed to elders. So all elders are,
S1: in a sense, shepherding or pastoring people. So that's, that's
S1: it's the same qualifications. Now, you know, when we look
S1: at those qualifications in first Timothy three, for example, a
S1: lot of people think that that is, well, a person
S1: has to be perfect. No one can live up to these.
S1: An overseer must be above reproach. The husband of one wife, self-controlled, sensible, respectable, hospitable,
S1: apt to teach or able to teach. Not addicted to wine.
S1: Not a bully, but gentle. Not quarrelsome. Not greedy. You know,
S1: it just goes on managing his household well. Well, I
S1: think that I. I would consider those to be relative
S1: qualities relative to other believers, not absolute qualities. Meaning a
S1: person has to be perfectly above reproach and never have sinned.
S1: That's not possible for anyone to be like that. So, uh,
S1: it's it's more along those lines of a more mature believer.
S1: Those are qualities of maturity.
S8: Okay. And so one of the things that Daniel included,
S8: which I did not in my question to you, is
S8: must um, he has seen this in his church of
S8: this title of pastor being taken by women. Is that is.
S1: That that's a horse of another color. You know, that's
S1: as they say in The Wizard of Oz. Yeah.
S8: So, so as the I mean, I think that the
S8: qualifications are things that all of us as believers, men
S8: and women should be trying to live as to to
S8: live Christ like ways with that character, competence and conviction
S8: that you talked about. Yeah. Is there a differentiation and
S8: how much is just a title of.
S1: Yeah. Well, here's the thing that I would say about
S1: a pastor. If a I don't think the office of elder, uh,
S1: is really and there's disagreement about this many good believers,
S1: godly believers think that women should be elders. I don't
S1: believe the Bible teaches that. You know, based on first
S1: Timothy 211 through 15 and and so forth. But I
S1: do think that women can have the gift of pastor, pastor,
S1: teacher found in Ephesians four and not necessarily be an elder.
S1: When when I led a congregation, I was a young man.
S1: When I planted a congregation, I was 26 years old.
S1: When I planted my first, not my. I was 25
S1: when I was pastoring the first for, to begin with,
S1: planted a congregation when I was 26. And we had
S1: a really I felt that it was not I was
S1: not really good at shepherding women. And my wife, we
S1: had little kids. It wasn't like I could say, here, Eva,
S1: you do it. But there was a woman. She was
S1: to me. She seemed old. She was around 60. Isn't
S1: that funny? at the time. When I was 25 and
S1: 26 and 27, she was around 60 and she definitely
S1: had the gift of pastor teacher. She's the one that
S1: would do the discipleship groups with women. She's the one
S1: that if someone had an issue that they needed some
S1: biblical guidance with, I would always refer them to her.
S1: And you know what? She didn't have enough office as
S1: an elder, but she was like one of those verses
S1: in Titus three. I believe it is where it says,
S1: let the older women teach the younger women.
S8: Titus two.
S1: Yeah, let the older women teach the younger women. And
S1: that's what I was living by when when I asked
S1: her her name was Lita, and Lita would do that.
S1: And she was just a great help and a godly
S1: role model for our women. And so she, in a sense,
S1: pastored women.
S8: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for that.
S8: I know that there are lots of different opinions on that,
S8: and you'll find churches with women in that position and
S8: role and office and others where the women are just
S8: exercising that gift. And so I'm glad that with the gifts,
S8: God does not differentiate that he gives.
S1: Men and women serve regardless.
S8: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
S1: So I think let's, let's let's do that quick. I
S1: can do that pretty quickly.
S8: We'll do a quick one Brian. Oh the gifts okay.
S8: Our our quick gift is Lori in Indiana. Quick question
S8: about gifts. Lori in Indiana listens to WGN. Are are
S8: the gifts of the spirit that are listed in first
S8: Corinthians 1214, Ephesians four, which you referenced briefly, and Romans 12.
S8: There's three different lists. Are they different from each other?
S1: They are different. Uh, some people think that that means that, uh,
S1: that there could be even more gifts that are mentioned
S1: in the Bible than what are mentioned in the Bible.
S1: So a person might have the gift of youth ministry
S1: or something like that? I don't think so. I think
S1: the best way to look at these passages is to
S1: take them all three together, show that there's some overlap,
S1: some that are different, and that there are about 20.
S1: Some people say 19, some people say 21. Gifts of
S1: the Holy Spirit. Those are our options for gifts, uh,
S1: as we go through them. And that's the amount of
S1: the number of spiritual gifts that there are. If you
S1: take all three of those passages, the most important thing
S1: I would say is first Peter 410, where it says,
S1: based on the gift each one has received, use it
S1: to serve others as good managers of the varied grace
S1: of God. If anyone speaks, it should be as one
S1: who speaks God's words. If anyone serves, it should be
S1: from the strength God provides. Here's a couple of quick
S1: observations one. We all have at least one spiritual gift.
S1: That's from first, uh, first Peter 410. Uh, and we
S1: have to steward them well and use them to serve God.
S1: And then it categorizes the two areas or two categories
S1: of spiritual gifts speaking and serving. Speaking are the public gifts. Uh,
S1: and whether you have the gift of teaching or exhortation
S1: or something like that, use that. Knowing that God is
S1: giving you His Word through the Word of God when
S1: you speak and serving as we serve using God's strength,
S1: that may be the more behind the scenes kinds of work,
S1: but it's just as important. And it it builds up
S1: the body, and we have to use it in the
S1: strength that God provides. And so that's what I would
S1: encourage everyone understand. We have at least one gift and
S1: then use them to the glory of God.
S8: All right. Thank you. Thanks for that question, Lori.
S1: Well, we're going to break here. And when we come back,
S1: we'll have time for more of your phoned in questions,
S1: but I appreciate you guys sending these questions in. You
S1: can always go to Open Line radio.org. Click on the
S1: link that says Ask Michael a question and post your
S1: question there. And that will go into Trisha's mailbox. She'll
S1: put them in the mailbag, for which I'm very grateful,
S1: and we'll go over them again. That was Tricia McMillan.
S1: I'm Michael Ray Zelnick. We'll be right back with more
S1: of your questions. Straight ahead on Open Line. Welcome back
S1: to Open Line. I'm Michael Ray Zelnick. As you know,
S1: Israel is in a war, a war that the nation
S1: really didn't choose. Iran launched it on October 7th with
S1: the Hamas attack. Hezbollah got involved, the Houthis got involved.
S1: Even Syria was involved. Most of those. Fronts have been Transformed. Now.
S1: Even Gaza really can't attack Israel at this point, although
S1: Hamas is still holding out. Nevertheless, there's a war with Iran.
S1: It's it's so terrifying when we think when we see
S1: war like this. But what's the future hold? Is there
S1: a good future for Israel? Well Chosen People Ministries, one
S1: of our underwriters, is offering a free book based on scripture.
S1: It's called Israel's Glorious Future, and it details God's faithfulness
S1: to his people and how he will bring about a
S1: great and glorious future for Israel. If you'd like a
S1: copy of this book, just go to our website openlibrary.org.
S1: Scroll down till you see the link that says A
S1: Free gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that. You'll
S1: be taken to a page where you can sign up
S1: for your own copy of Israel's Glorious Future. Well, let's
S1: talk to Richard. Listening in Iowa on 89.3. Welcome to
S1: Open Line. Richard. How can I help you?
S9: I'm trying to figure out my son's kind of lost
S9: his way. Trying to figure out a verse or something
S9: to send him. Um, he's out homeless at this point,
S9: and they kind of tell him to leave, and, uh,
S9: he's just having a rough time, but he's trying. He
S9: keeps falling in and out of God, and I'm just
S9: trying to figure out what to tell him. Like on
S9: Father's Day or.
S1: You know, they're they're verses that you might want to
S1: use about seeking God's blessing. Uh, you know, I think
S1: that's what you want. You want God to, uh, bring
S1: blessing to him. So maybe this time you could, uh,
S1: give him something like number six, verse 24. I'll read
S1: it to you. It's the it's the famous benediction that
S1: Aaron used to bless the children of Israel. Uh, that
S1: might be a good verse that you're praying for this,
S1: for him, that this would become his reality. It says, uh,
S1: verses 24 through 26 of numbers six, number six, 24
S1: through 26. May the Lord bless you and keep you.
S1: May the Lord make his face shine on you and
S1: be gracious to you. And may the Lord look with
S1: favor on you and give you peace. That's what your
S1: hope is, your longing for your son. That's a good
S1: verse to use. Okay.
S9: All right. Thanks.
S1: Yeah. Thanks for your call. Appreciate it. Uh, we're going
S1: to talk to Mary listening on. That's in Grand Rapids,
S1: is it not?
S10: Mary is in Indiana.
S1: Indiana. Okay. I'm sorry. Indiana. I get them confused. Uh,
S1: there are a lot of different stations. Hey, thank you
S1: for your call, Mary. How can I help you?
S11: Uh, Jesus. Cast out evil spirits. Where did they go?
S11: And where are they now?
S1: Where did they go? Apparently, now they're in the UN. But, uh.
S1: The UN. I'm joking. Mary. Uh, the the the Bible
S1: doesn't really say we know that. For example, the demons
S1: that were cast out asked for permission to go into
S1: the swine. Do you remember that? Because they want to
S1: be in a body.
S11: Apparently so. Yeah. Keep going.
S1: Then they. Then they killed those swine. So. Well, where'd
S1: they go then? Not sure. Yeah. The only thing I
S1: can think of is, um, Matthew 1243, it says when
S1: an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it roams
S1: through waterless places looking for rest, but doesn't find any.
S1: Then it says, I'll go back to my house that
S1: I came from. And returning it finds the house vacant. Swept.
S1: That means the body of the person that was cast
S1: out of and put in order, and it goes off
S1: and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself.
S1: And they enter and settle down there. Uh, now that's
S1: in a parable, but it's based on, I think, what
S1: demons actually do. I think they're when they're cast out,
S1: they look for a physical body to inhabit.
S11: Oh, so they keep looking for new, vulnerable people?
S1: Yep. Or or swine? Apparently so. Okay.
S11: Yeah. All right. Right. Yes. Okay. That gives a little
S11: bit more.
S1: Uh, by the way, I think the lesson, the lesson
S1: of that parable is we just don't we don't become vacuous, uh,
S1: to protect our what is the most important protection against demonic, uh,
S1: affliction is to fill the house, fill the body with
S1: that which is good. Well, first of all, I would
S1: say a person needs to trust the Lord Jesus. The
S1: Holy Spirit will come and indwell us. That's a great
S1: protection against a demonic entrance. And then the second, uh,
S1: those of us who, uh, would we need to fill
S1: it with the word of God, uh, meditate on it,
S1: understand it, read it. Uh, that will be a protection against, uh,
S1: demonic affliction from the outside. So.
S11: Great.
S1: Uh, yeah. Okay. Thank you. Mary.
S11: Appreciate it.
S1: Uh. Uh. Janice in Bloomington, Indiana. Can you ask your
S1: question really fast? Because we're up against a break.
S11: Um, okay. I found out that my church believes in
S11: replacement theology. Um, I'm not sure what where to go
S11: with that. Um, and I don't live in a large
S11: city where I can go elsewhere, and.
S1: Well, let me just say, Janice, that that's not the
S1: biggest issue. If your church believes in Jesus and your
S1: church believes that Jesus died and rose again and he's returning.
S1: Focus on that. If you don't have an alternative church
S1: to go to, uh, try and focus on the things
S1: that you agree on that are most essential. That's what
S1: I would say. Thanks for your call, Janice. I really
S1: appreciate it. And that's the program for the week. Thanks
S1: for listening, everyone, especially those of you who called or
S1: wrote in, really appreciate that. Thanks to the Open Line team.
S1: Omar Mendoza for handling all things technical and to Hira
S1: Haines and Lisa and Trish. Uh, thanks for always taking
S1: care of stuff. Keep in touch with us by checking
S1: out our website, Open Line radio.org. Keep reading the Bible.
S1: We'll talk about it next week. Open line with Doctor
S1: Michael Wright is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry
S1: of Moody Bible Institute. See you next week.