S1: If you're a caregiver for a child, a relative, or
S1: a friend, don't miss the help and hope on today's
S1: building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S2: It's just amazing to me what God has done with
S2: his story and how there has been so much beauty
S2: from ashes. When when initially I thought, you know, my
S2: situation was completely hopeless.
S1: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S1: the New York Times bestseller, The Five Love Languages. The
S1: demands of caregiving can often leave you feeling exhausted, isolated, stressed,
S1: or unappreciated. Today, Jessica Rainey shares her caregiving story and
S1: how her perspective has been transformed by grace.
S3: Our featured resource at Building Relationships US is Jessica's book
S3: caregiving with grit and Grace. A mom discovers meaning, strength,
S3: and gratitude as a caregiver. You can find out more
S3: at building relationships.us. Gary is a pastor. You have seen
S3: the silent struggles of caregivers and the difficulties they face,
S3: haven't you?
S4: Absolutely, Chris. You know, I deeply, deeply admire those people
S4: who are caregivers because it's 24 hours for many of them.
S4: You know, if they're in the home and family members,
S4: it's a 24 hour situation. So, yeah, no, there's a
S4: lot of lot of struggle there. But hopefully and thankfully
S4: when God gives grace, people never, ever regret caring for
S4: family members, you know? And of course there are people.
S4: That's their lifestyle. I mean, that's what they do. They
S4: work in that, you know, as caregivers. So I'm excited
S4: about our conversation today.
S3: Let me introduce our guest, Jess. Ronnie is an author, caregiver, advocate,
S3: podcast host of coffee with caregivers and associate producer of
S3: the documentary Unseen How We're Failing Parent caregivers and why
S3: it matters. She holds a master's degree in education. She's
S3: the founder of Hope farm, which is a residential home
S3: for disabled adults and the executive director of the Lucas Project,
S3: a nonprofit dedicated to serving parent caregivers. Jess and her husband, Ryan,
S3: live in Holland, Michigan with their eight children and are featured. Resource.
S3: If you go to Building Relationships us, you'll see it
S3: right there. Caregiving with grit and Grace a mom discovers meaning, strength,
S3: and gratitude as a caregiver. Again, go to building relationships.us.
S4: Well, Jess, welcome to Building Relationships.
S2: Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
S4: It seems to me that the ministry you have is
S4: directly related to a lot of the pain and struggle
S4: you've experienced in your own life. Is that true?
S2: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, Lucas, my son, who is
S2: profoundly disabled, has always been the thread to everything I've
S2: really created for the past, um, 12, 15 years. From
S2: the nonprofit to the books to the podcasts to the documentary.
S2: It's all been to not only bring awareness and resources
S2: for other people, but it's been to create awareness and
S2: resources for our family as well.
S4: How old is Lucas now?
S2: He's 20.
S4: 20? Yeah. Well, before we get into your story, tell
S4: us what inspired you to write caregiving with grit and Grace.
S2: Yeah, that's that's kind of a funny story. My husband
S2: actually said to me for years, you should write a
S2: devotional book for caregivers. And I said, I don't know
S2: that I'm the right person to do that. It just
S2: I didn't feel equipped, I guess, um, to minister to
S2: caregivers in such a profound capacity. And he finally convinced me,
S2: along with my agent, to write a proposal. And I did.
S2: And a publisher loved it and offered me a contract.
S2: And that's how caregiving with grit and Grace came about.
S2: And it's so funny. I actually wrote that book as
S2: we were creating a group home for Lucas, and it
S2: almost became like God was downloading a love letter to
S2: a grieving mother as I prepared to release my son
S2: to the care of others. And it in turn has
S2: become a love letter to caregivers around the world.
S4: Yeah, sometimes God does things we don't anticipate, right? Yes.
S2: Sometimes that's a story of my life.
S4: Yeah. And what do you hope caregivers who are listening
S4: today take away from our conversation?
S2: I really hope that they're encouraged to reframe their Perspectives
S2: in regards to caregiving. I know it's often seen as
S2: monotonous and mundane and, um, you know, grunt work that
S2: we have to do. And I would just really encourage
S2: caregivers to reframe their perspective and see it as holy work, really,
S2: the holiest work we can do this side of eternity
S2: is caring for someone who cannot care for themselves. And
S2: in fact, through our caregiving, we are becoming more like
S2: Christ who came to earth with the sole purpose of
S2: caring for us, our physical needs, our mental needs, our
S2: spiritual needs, and so to reframe our perspectives and see
S2: it in light of becoming more Christ like has just
S2: been really a game changer for me and my personal
S2: caregiving journey as well.
S4: Yeah, I greatly admire caregivers. I mean, I just I
S4: stand in awe sometimes as I see, you know, what
S4: you and others you know, deal with on a regular basis.
S4: So you dedicate the book to your son Lucas, who
S4: you thank for teaching you what it truly looks like
S4: to lay down your life for another. What happened with Lucas?
S2: Uh, Lucas was diagnosed with a stroke in utero at
S2: my 20 week ultrasound appointment. We were told that there
S2: was very little hope. And it was suggested that we
S2: terminate and try again. And the doctor's words. You're young
S2: and healthy. You won't have any problems getting pregnant. Uh,
S2: it's just nature's way. These fetuses aren't supposed to make it.
S2: And my husband, Jason, and I instead put Lucas in
S2: the Lord's hands and trusted that his will would be done.
S2: And Lucas came out screaming with life four months later. Uh,
S2: he underwent brain surgery, spent two weeks in the NICU,
S2: and then we were handed our baby with kind of
S2: an umbrella diagnosis of special needs and told good luck.
S2: And Jason and I just looked at each other in awe.
S2: We had gone from, there's no hope your baby's going
S2: to die to here you go. Good luck. And so
S2: we just went home elated that we were going home
S2: with our miracle baby. I did not grieve one single
S2: bit that Lucas might have any additional needs or disabilities.
S2: I was just thrilled to be going home with a
S2: live baby.
S4: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Well, I know a lot of caregivers
S4: who recognize the pain, the struggle which you came to
S4: recognize as time went on. How do you come to
S4: grips with the term of the prospect of being a
S4: lifelong caregiver, which is what it's really turning out to
S4: you for you?
S2: Mhm. That was a process. Um, and I don't really
S2: think I came to grips with it until Lucas started
S2: to go through puberty and became aggressive. And we had
S2: behavioral challenges, and he would lash out at me and
S2: at his siblings, and he was incontinent and non-verbal. And,
S2: you know, when he was an adorable little boy, it
S2: was easy to find people to help, even to step in,
S2: you know, with a five or a six year old
S2: who's in diapers. But when that child is 16, 17, 18,
S2: still in diapers and now capable of hurting people, nobody
S2: wants to help anymore. And that's when it became very
S2: apparent to me that this was a lifelong gig that
S2: the Lord had called me to. And I think that's
S2: when I really even began to grieve the fact that
S2: Lucas had special needs and and even grieve the fact
S2: that he wasn't a typical child and began to process like,
S2: what will our future look like with this child?
S4: Well, what advice would you give other parents who are
S4: facing a similar situation to what you faced?
S2: I think it boils down to really one word surrender.
S2: And that is like a daily surrender To the father's
S2: care and trusting his heart not only for yourself as
S2: a parent, but trusting his heart for your child and
S2: for your family, and truly trusting that he is able
S2: to do exceedingly more than we could ever comprehend or
S2: imagine with our stories. When we are obedient and step
S2: into the the plan and the life that he has
S2: for us.
S4: I think a lot of listeners who have never experienced
S4: anything like this, really, it's hard to even comprehend what
S4: that would be like.
S2: Mhm.
S4: Well, Jess, what are the daily challenges of caring for
S4: your son Lucas now at this juncture?
S2: Well, like I mentioned earlier, we actually created a group
S2: home for him and he moved into that home a
S2: year ago, February 1st. So for the past year I've
S2: been really processing and grieving and accepting over and over
S2: again the fact that I'm not his full time primary
S2: caregiver anymore. And so it looks very different than it
S2: did even a year ago. But even, you know, for up,
S2: up for 19 years, up to 19 years, he required
S2: full time care bathing, diapering, um, feeding, getting him ready.
S2: Every morning. I slept with a baby monitor beside my
S2: head for 19 years because he didn't sleep very well
S2: and would wake up in the middle of the night
S2: screaming or, um, creating self injuries by banging his head
S2: against his arm. Um, so just 24 over seven care.
S2: So living like 19 years really in a form of
S2: survival mode as a caregiver?
S4: Yeah. I want to ask you a really personal question.
S4: Have you ever felt angry or frustration toward God in
S4: this situation.
S2: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And especially I feel like I surrendered
S2: much faster during my pregnancy with Lucas. But later on,
S2: as I walked through my husband's three year journey with cancer,
S2: I was extremely angry and could not understand or comprehend
S2: why the Lord would require such a difficult path for me.
S2: With numerous brain surgeries with Lucas and his father and
S2: four young children that I had to care for, I
S2: don't know that I manage those emotions very well. During
S2: Jason's cancer journey, I acknowledged them. God and I wrestled greatly,
S2: I lamented, I screamed, I wailed, and really, only up
S2: until two weeks before Jason passed away did I finally
S2: drop to my knees and surrender and say, okay, I,
S2: I wanted you to take this cup from me. Just
S2: like Jesus pleaded in the Garden of Gethsemane. I don't
S2: want to carry this heavy burden, but you have called
S2: me to carry this, and not my will, but yours
S2: be done. You are God, and I am not. And
S2: from that moment forward, something shifted, and Jason actually passed
S2: away two weeks later. But in that shift, I did
S2: find peace moving forward.
S4: Well, I think sometimes Christians say, well, you should never
S4: get angry with God or frustrated with God. The reality is,
S4: we all do at times when we don't understand what's
S4: going on. But the reality is we're not going to
S4: understand everything that happens in our lives. And somewhere along
S4: the line, we have to come to where you finally came,
S4: you know, and that is accepting the reality and putting
S4: the whole thing in God's hands, even though we don't understand.
S4: So you became a widow with four children. How did
S4: you deal with that? And did you have a support
S4: system that was helping you or. Wow. I mean, I'm just.
S4: I'm just feeling a lot of pain myself as I'm
S4: listening to you.
S2: It was, um, you know, the funny, not the funny thing.
S2: The interesting thing, really? Um, when Jason passed away, there
S2: was finally almost some peace, uh, because I had put
S2: forth so much energy caring for him for three years. Brain.
S2: Brain cancer is a cruel, cruel taskmaster. By the time
S2: he passed away, I missed him deeply. But I did
S2: not miss Jason, who had brain cancer. Our relationship had
S2: definitely shifted from a spousal relationship to a caregiver and
S2: one who needed care, and I devoted myself to him
S2: in his final months, years, and so much so that
S2: I really missed my kids. And so when he he
S2: passed away, I just really dove into being a mom
S2: again and reconnecting with my four young children. I had
S2: four children under seven years old, including Lucas, um, who
S2: was profoundly disabled. And so to not have cancer to
S2: deal with anymore, there was sort of this peace to
S2: be able to focus on my kids again. And I
S2: had a really strong support system for the the three
S2: years that Jason went through brain cancer. And it's always
S2: interesting as I look back and reflect, I didn't cook
S2: a meal or or do my laundry or clean my
S2: house or anything really. For three years I had so
S2: much help as Jason was battling cancer, But then I
S2: compare that to raising Lucas for 20 years, and there's
S2: been very little help. And I think people are just
S2: much more eager to step into those short term opportunities
S2: and help out. And there's something very daunting about those
S2: longer years upon years upon years of raising a child
S2: that they don't maybe know what to do with, or
S2: there's some fear associated with stepping in and helping those families.
S4: Yeah, I can I can see that. How long were
S4: you and Jason married before he passed away?
S2: Uh, 11 years.
S4: 11 years? Mhm. Wow. How old was he?
S2: He was 33.
S4: 33.
S2: Most of our marriage was just fighting one hurdle battle
S2: after another. Um, it you know, it's interesting to reflect
S2: back on that. Even we we had very little periods
S2: of peace just between Lucas and Jason's constant battles with
S2: brain cancer. Yeah.
S4: Are your other four children all healthy physically?
S2: I have eight children now. Yes. All seven of them
S2: are healthy. Um, yes. And the other three are very healthy.
S4: Okay, well, now you got to tell us how you
S4: got eight children. In due time, it sounds like God
S4: led you to another man.
S2: He did? Um, yes. Very interesting part of the story. Um,
S2: at Jason's funeral, his mom actually pulled me aside and said. Jess,
S2: I just want you to know I'm praying for your
S2: next husband. And that kind of shocked me because I
S2: wasn't in any frame of mind to be thinking about
S2: getting married again. At that point, I was hopeful that
S2: I would get married again. I really enjoyed marriage. I
S2: had a good marriage and I wanted that again in
S2: my life. And little did I know, three months later,
S2: a stranger left a comment on my blog I had
S2: blogged during Jason's cancer journey just to keep the masses updated,
S2: and she was from Pennsylvania and she said, I don't
S2: know why I'm asking you to do this, but I
S2: just would like you to reach out to this widower
S2: in Oklahoma. He lost his wife to brain cancer four
S2: days after Jason died, and he has three young children
S2: and he's not doing very well. And so I found
S2: his blog and left a comment. And I woke up
S2: the next day to an email from this man. And
S2: those emails turned into phone calls, and we eventually met
S2: and we were married in April of 2011. He moved
S2: to Michigan and we adopted each other's children, and we
S2: went on to have an eighth and final child together
S2: in 15.
S4: Wow. Oh, no. Now tell me. I know our listeners
S4: are asking. I'm asking. How long was it from the
S4: time Jason died until you actually got married?
S2: Well, Jason passed away in August, and we were married
S2: in April, so.
S4: Okay.
S2: Whatever that. Whatever.
S4: Whatever that is. All right.
S2: In my defense, and I often say this, I do
S2: move quickly. Jason and I were married 11 months after
S2: meeting as well, so I'm just a very decisive woman, so.
S4: Okay. I hear you, I hear you. Right. Well, you know,
S4: I think sometimes we experience this where now your children
S4: are still young, but where children that are older and
S4: their father dies and their mother marries, you know, within
S4: six months or seven months or whatever and say, wait
S4: a minute, mama, wait a minute, wait a minute. What
S4: are you doing? I've seen that in my counseling, you know,
S4: through the years. Yes, but but there is no pattern,
S4: you know, as to or in time pattern in terms
S4: of when God brings someone into your life and brings
S4: you together. Well, I'm impressed that he moved to Michigan
S4: from Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Is that what you said?
S2: Well, he only lasted two years in Michigan. And then
S2: he said, I can't deal with the snow. So we
S2: moved to Tennessee. So.
S4: Okay.
S5: All right. He didn't he didn't last real long. But
S5: here we are back in Michigan now.
S4: Oh, you're back in Michigan.
S5: Okay. Right.
S4: Well, okay. So being a parent caregiver can give you anxiety,
S4: can bring depression, can bring chronic stress. And you say
S4: in the documentary that your heart races. What do you
S4: do with all these feelings that affect you even physically?
S2: Hum. Yeah. That was that was a battle like I mentioned.
S2: You kind of live in this constant state of survival
S2: mode and I recognized it, I acknowledged it, I prayed
S2: about it. I was honest about my needs, but my
S2: body still was in a chronic state of pain that
S2: nobody could really figure out. And only honestly. Since Lucas
S2: moved into his new home, a couple of daily practices
S2: have been able to release a lot of that pain
S2: from my body. And one daily practice is going for
S2: a walk and and really kind of shaking out some
S2: of that stress and that trauma. Another daily practice is
S2: inviting the father, son and Holy Spirit into my daily
S2: life and praying for courage and clarity and anointing and
S2: and operating in, in the spirit. And then, um, I
S2: try to set aside some time to, to do some stretching,
S2: but it's it's very, very challenging when you're living in
S2: the middle of it, because I know I did a
S2: lot of things right. And I was still really feeling
S2: the chronic effects of the stress on my body. And
S2: so I think it's for a lot of caregivers just
S2: being very honest about your needs and inviting people to
S2: step into your life and help out and accepting that help.
S2: I know a lot of times as caregivers, it's really
S2: challenging for us to admit that we could use the help.
S2: And so we'll we'll say we're fine, everything's fine, and
S2: everything's really not fine. So accepting that help and then
S2: and then trying to take some time to really take
S2: care of yourself.
S4: Yeah. So that self care and the things you were
S4: talking about really is important. Right. Because if we don't
S4: take care of ourselves, we can't take care of children
S4: or anybody else ultimately.
S2: Yeah, exactly.
S4: Chris mentioned the documentary earlier. Tell us a little bit
S4: about about that documentary and how that came about.
S2: Yeah, that came about after I created the Lucas Project,
S2: which is a nonprofit that serves special needs families with
S2: resources and support. And we wanted to bring awareness to
S2: families like mine. I just thought, you know, we need
S2: to create a documentary that kind of peels back the
S2: curtain and exposes what life looks like, because a lot
S2: of times people just are not familiar with families like
S2: ours because we don't go out into the world. It's
S2: not very accommodating or accessible. And so we stay home isolated.
S2: And a couple of years ago, I think it was 2018, actually,
S2: I just posted on Facebook. I said, I have this
S2: great idea, I'd like to create a documentary. Um, just
S2: kind of peeling back the curtain of, of a special
S2: needs life. And if there's a filmmaker or producer out
S2: there that would want to meet with me and discuss
S2: this idea, I'd love to set something up. And the
S2: next day, a filmmaker from Nashville reached out and we
S2: met for lunch, and four years later we created a documentary.
S2: They they followed our family around for about four years.
S2: The documentary is called Unseen How We're Failing Parent Caregivers
S2: and Why It Matters. And if you head to our website,
S2: caregiver.com and sign up for our newsletter, you will be
S2: kept up to date on all of the future showings
S2: that we're going to be offering.
S4: Well, I'm sure that's going to help a lot of
S4: people who, as you said earlier, are not aware and
S4: many have no idea of what this kind of lifestyle
S4: looks like. So I think that's going to that's a
S4: real asset. It's amazing how God works things out, isn't it, to.
S5: Get.
S4: You to the right person to do that?
S3: One of the most powerful things in it, not only
S3: following your family around and seeing your husband Ryan, talk about,
S3: you know, how he's not going to Make five year
S3: plans anymore that it's day by day. One of the
S3: most powerful things is just the people that were interviewed
S3: who talk about how what a struggle this is, and
S3: they're just real and authentic and vulnerable. And I think
S3: that's one of the most powerful things of that documentary.
S2: Yeah, I would agree. And just to realize how many
S2: families are out there dealing with the same emotions, the
S2: same isolation, the same depression, anxiety, and I think it
S2: just really brings an awareness that there are all these
S2: families and they need help in some, in some way.
S5: Yeah.
S3: Well, even the comparison of of Covid, the pandemic and
S3: what happened with the shutdown, you say in there that
S3: in a lot of ways, this is the same thing
S3: that happened to families who are doing that caregiving. It's
S3: just it for them. It didn't end right.
S2: No. We kind of laughed, even during the pandemic. Like
S2: the whole world was freaking out about not being able
S2: to go out. And we were like, this is just
S2: life is normal. Outside of Luke not being able to
S2: go to school. That was very challenging because he loved
S2: school and did not understand or comprehend why he couldn't
S2: go to school, and so that resulted in a lot
S2: of screaming all day long. But yeah, other than that,
S2: it was kind of life as normal. Like this. This
S2: is just how we do life.
S3: One of the really powerful comments came from a woman,
S3: and she was teary eyed as she talked, and she
S3: was speaking a little softer, and she says, 2:00 in
S3: the morning. This is the only time when I that
S3: I have to myself and I saw that. And it's like,
S3: that speaks volumes, doesn't it, Jess?
S5: Yeah it.
S2: Does. Yeah. And I mean, I would never sacrifice sleep,
S2: but she.
S5: She Apparently, I.
S2: Enjoy my sleep too much.
S5: Um, but.
S2: Yeah, you just learn to cope. However, you need to
S2: cope so that you can continue to rise another day
S2: and do it all over again.
S1: This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
S1: Gary's the author of the New York Times best seller
S1: The Five Love Languages. You can take a quiz to
S1: discover your love language and find out about our featured
S1: resource at Building relationships.us. Jess Ronnie is our guest in
S1: her book is our featured resource. It's titled caregiving with
S1: grit and Grace. Just go to building relationships.us.
S4: Jess, you mentioned earlier, of course, you obviously were praying
S4: through all this, but you prayed for healing, you know,
S4: for your son Lucas and your first husband, Jason. What
S4: did you come to understand after you realized realize that
S4: healing was not going to occur?
S2: I came to understand years later that it was really
S2: more about healing me of my preconceived ideas, of how
S2: I thought God should orchestrate my life, um, my ideas
S2: of control and really healing me, of my ideas of
S2: of pride and ego, which are ultimately steeped in this
S2: idea of control that we think we have over our lives,
S2: and even an understanding that Jason is completely healed. He
S2: received the best kind of healing when he went home
S2: to heaven. And Lucas, too, is completely healed according to
S2: the way God wanted Lucas's life to bring glory to him.
S2: You know, I look at him, one of the most
S2: humble individuals on this planet who has no ego or
S2: pride or. and it's just amazing to me what God
S2: has done with his story and how he's brought so
S2: much hope and encouragement through his life. And, you know,
S2: the the documentary and the nonprofit and the books about him.
S2: And it's just really remarkable to me how there has
S2: been so much beauty from ashes when when initially I thought,
S2: you know, my situation was completely hopeless.
S4: I can certainly understand where you would get to the
S4: place where you feel like there's just no hope. It's
S4: not going to happen. They're not going to be healed.
S4: And yet, as you say, we recognize God. God is
S4: sovereign and God is going to work good out of
S4: our situation. We just need to be open to him
S4: and gear into what he's doing. Right.
S5: Mhm.
S2: Exactly.
S4: Now you describe caregiving as holy work. H-o-l-y holy work.
S4: What does that mean?
S2: Uh, for me, like I mentioned earlier, it was really
S2: a process of learning to reframe my perspective. And it
S2: it came after a day Lucas was around 15 years
S2: old and he was sick and he was not happy.
S2: And I had a deadline for a book I was writing.
S2: I was the executive director of this new nonprofit that
S2: I had just started. Lots of big, exciting things on
S2: the horizon, and Lucas kept screaming all day, um, because
S2: he wasn't feeling well. He had numerous diapers that I
S2: was changing, and I was just very irritated and annoyed
S2: and grumbling about it. And the Holy Spirit just whispered
S2: to me, just, this is holy work. This is the
S2: holiest work that you can do in serving your son.
S2: That just that moment changed me, so much so that
S2: I had a sign created that says, this is holy work,
S2: and hung it above Lucas's bed just as a constant,
S2: tangible reminder that caring for my son was the most
S2: important work. All of the other stuff was good stuff.
S2: It was God ordained stuff. But in laying down my
S2: life to care for my son, I was becoming more
S2: Christ like.
S5: Well.
S4: I'm sure there are people, when they find themselves in
S4: a caregiver situation that they don't feel equipped to do this.
S4: I'm assuming you probably felt the same way. What guidance
S4: would you give to someone who just says, I don't?
S4: I'm just not equipped to do this. I just don't
S4: know how I'm going to do this.
S2: I kind of jokingly call myself a reluctant caregiver because
S2: if I were God looking for somebody to put in
S2: a caregiver role, it would not be just Ronnie. I'm not.
S5: Um.
S2: I would make a horrible nurse. I'm not like the
S2: mom who snuggles with sick kids on the couch. I'm
S2: more of a like, here's your bucket. Let me know
S2: if you need something. But the Lord and his great
S2: mercy has used my particular skill set to not only
S2: teach me how to care for others, but also in
S2: using my skill set. I've realized that I am a doer,
S2: I'm a fixer, I'm a problem solver. And so I've
S2: been able to model these attributes for other caregivers and
S2: I think bring hope and encouragement along the journey. And
S2: I would just say to that person, God does know
S2: what he's doing. You may look at it and and
S2: be like, this does not seem right. I am not
S2: the right person to care for this individual, but he
S2: will equip you. And it again comes back to that surrender.
S2: If you surrender and obey, just obey the next step,
S2: the next action that you need to take. And he
S2: will equip you each and every step of the way
S2: if you allow him to.
S4: So it's reaching out to ask God for wisdom. And
S4: are there are there people in a in a community
S4: that you can reach out to that might begin to
S4: help you cope with this? Or do you sometimes recommend
S4: counseling for for somebody that's in this situation?
S2: I would recommend counseling. I think if the counselor had
S2: an understanding of what families like ours go through, you know,
S2: my husband and I pursued counseling a couple of times,
S2: and honestly, the counselor had no background with what families
S2: like mine go through and suggested to my husband that
S2: when times get tough that he breathed in a paper sack,
S2: and a couple of weeks later, he was actually in
S2: the E.R. with panic attacks that resembled heart attacks. Because
S2: our life had gotten so overwhelming. And personally, I've found
S2: more comfort, really, in talking to other families that do
S2: get it and feeling seen. And I'm sure counselors can
S2: offer some coping skills or tools. But again, it's if
S2: you're not familiar, it's it's truly for some of these families,
S2: it's like being in a war zone day after day.
S5: Yeah.
S2: And they compare, you know, the PTSD that families like
S2: mine go through to that of vets because of the
S2: aggression and the behavioral challenges that we we walk through. So, um,
S2: there are support groups. I know the Lucas project offers
S2: a free support group. It's a virtual support group called
S2: Caregivers Cove. We currently have over 2000 participants, but I
S2: would find something like that just so that you don't
S2: feel so alone and you have somebody or a group
S2: of people that you can talk to honestly and vulnerably
S2: about your life.
S4: Yeah, give us that website where they might go and
S4: learn about this on the online care group.
S2: Uh, it's the Lucas Project.org and it's under our resource tab.
S2: It's called Caregivers Cove.
S4: Okay. Because I think there are many out there. If
S4: they are in this situation, they want all the help
S4: they can get. And that sounds like another another source
S4: of help. May I ask this, how has all the suffering,
S4: the loss, the struggle that you have gone through? How
S4: has that affected your other children?
S2: Um, I get asked this question quite often, and we've
S2: been very honest with our kids and having eight children,
S2: there hasn't been as much time to have that individual
S2: one on one time with each child. And when we
S2: recognize that a child really needs that, we would carve
S2: out that time. And we've formulated more of a tribal
S2: model where it was really important to all gather around
S2: the dinner table every night and share a meal together.
S2: And when one of the family members was struggling, it
S2: was important to rally around that individual and help them out.
S2: So really living in a community model within our family,
S2: and we've had a lot of honest conversations about the
S2: fact that seven of them have a very tragic story.
S2: Seven of my kids lost a parent, and all eight
S2: of them have grown up with a profoundly disabled brother.
S2: And it's up to them, really, what what they're going
S2: to do with their story. They can wallow in the
S2: injustice of it, or they can trust that God has
S2: a plan for their life and for their story, and
S2: they can move forward in faith and do something positive
S2: with their story. And it's been really remarkable to see.
S2: Now we have four kids who live outside of our home,
S2: all very well adjusted, kind individuals who really see other
S2: people who don't have this narcissistic tendency that you see
S2: so often in so many individuals nowadays, because they did
S2: have to rally around their brother. They they helped with
S2: their brother, and they were one of eight kids. And I,
S2: as a mother, am just so proud to see how
S2: they do see other people. And they step in and
S2: they offer assistance where that's needed. So again, it's their story.
S2: It's it's my story. It's their story. We've all had
S2: a hard story and it's up to us to decide,
S2: are we going to trust God with that story and
S2: move forward in faith and do something positive?
S4: Now, when you married Ryan, you said he had three children.
S4: And so they're coming. They moved in with you and
S4: your four children. How did that stepparent stepchild thing was that?
S4: Was that something that there was early on acceptance of
S4: those children, or how did you how did you visualize
S4: all of that?
S2: There really was because they were all so young. They
S2: were very excited to have all of these built in playmates.
S2: And you alluded to earlier, you know, it probably would
S2: have been very different if they were older, and we
S2: recognize that. But they were very excited to have a
S2: mom and a dad figure again. Um, they were very
S2: excited for all of these built in playmates. Um, and they,
S2: we didn't really have these step labels because we adopted
S2: them so early on. And in fact, my daughter Maya,
S2: one of her teachers, referred to her as my step
S2: or referred to me as her step mom. And she said,
S2: that's not my step mom, that's my mom.
S5: And so yeah, yeah, yeah.
S2: But again, we recognize they were young and so they,
S2: they just really all grew up together and they're all
S2: extremely close to this day. But I mean, we we
S2: had challenges I would say more so in our marriage
S2: and the blending of what that looked like than with
S2: the kids. I'm also the oldest of 12, so I've
S2: been sort of preparing for all these children my whole life.
S2: I've been in kind of a caregiver role since I
S2: was two years old, when my mom had twins. And
S2: I see these pictures now of two year old Jessica
S2: sitting on the couch with her twin brothers under her arms.
S2: You know, feeding them bottles. So it was just really
S2: second nature. It wasn't all that shocking to me to
S2: have so many children. I think it was more shocking
S2: to Ryan, um, to have so many children.
S4: How old were his children when they came in?
S2: Uh, six. Four and one.
S4: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can see how it would be
S4: easier at that age than if they had been ten, 12, 15, 13,
S4: you know, whatever. Yeah.
S2: Yeah, absolutely.
S4: Well, let's talk about the marriage. Maybe, maybe, first of all,
S4: words about your marriage, your time with Jason. How does
S4: all this pressure and all caring for Lucas and everything?
S4: How did that affect your marriage? And then let's talk
S4: about your your marriage with Ryan and how how this
S4: has affected the marriage and what are the challenges.
S2: I have with Jason? Like I mentioned earlier, we just
S2: our whole marriage was basically living in survival mode. And
S2: that makes me sad sometimes because it just felt like
S2: we were always fighting the next battle. We both had
S2: a very deep faith and we we really enjoyed each
S2: other's company and were best friends, but it was so
S2: hard to carve out those fun times together because of
S2: all of the challenges, all of the brain surgeries, um,
S2: that felt like were occurring almost every couple of months, honestly.
S2: But I remember some of the happiest times of my
S2: life were when we were first married and we lived
S2: in a double wide and we were just making enough
S2: money to survive. And I had Caleb, and we were
S2: just blissfully unaware of what was coming around the bend
S2: for our lives together. But I'm proud of that marriage.
S2: I'm proud of how we stood firm in our faith.
S2: I'm proud of how he brought glory to God through
S2: his struggles, even up until the very end. And then,
S2: you know, marrying Ryan. We did get married very quickly,
S2: and we recognized that in that decision. We did not
S2: necessarily process and grieve the loss of our former spouses
S2: prior to coming together. And in fact, we kind of
S2: grieved and processed together, which was not necessarily the best idea.
S2: And in looking back, we should have found somebody that
S2: we could work through some of those feelings with rather
S2: than dump it all on each other, because that's a
S2: very challenging place to be like grieving the loss of
S2: one spouse and falling in love with a new spouse. It's.
S2: I can't even hardly explain it, but it's, um, just
S2: a murky, messy place at times. But we did realize
S2: early on, too, that if our marriage was going to work,
S2: we had to be really intentional about spending time together
S2: and really getting to know each other and cultivating that intimacy.
S2: And so from the very beginning, we went on a
S2: weekly date. We have been praying together every morning for
S2: 14 years. Um, and we would carve out time to
S2: get away, just the two of us every year. And
S2: those were intentional choices. We have never driven fancy vehicles
S2: or gone out to eat all the time, but we
S2: do set aside money to go on those date nights
S2: and to spend that week away every year to reconnect,
S2: because we wanted to give our eight children the gift
S2: of a healthy marriage. And so that was a choice
S2: very early on that we committed to.
S4: Yeah, I was talking to a gentleman recently whose wife
S4: died and he remarried, and he was saying in our conversation,
S4: he said, you know, we each feel freedom to talk
S4: about our former spouse, you know, to to bring up things.
S4: If something happens. It reminds me of my wife, you know,
S4: she's happy for me to share that. And she does
S4: the same thing. Have you all found that to be
S4: a part of your your communication or or is that
S4: not been a part of it?
S2: Um, it's changed initially. I think there was some insecurities
S2: that came up when we would bring up the former spouses.
S2: And part of that was, you know, when somebody dies,
S2: there's a sainthood aspect. And so every memory would be
S2: this beautiful memory while the two of us are Battling
S2: through this new marriage and trying to find our way.
S2: And and so there was some insecurity in the initial stages,
S2: and we've had to figure out how to walk through
S2: that gracefully with one another. 14 years later, now that
S2: we have our own shared history. We've been raising these children.
S2: We feel very firmly established in our love for one another.
S2: It's very different, and those conversations arise quite often where
S2: something will remind us of that former spouse. So I
S2: think just recognizing that sometimes it takes time to build
S2: that history together and to build that trust and that
S2: love to, because in those initial stages, you're kind of
S2: running on passion and endorphins and not so much the
S2: trust and the, the, the foundation, you know, of what
S2: truly solidifies you to each other.
S4: Takes time, takes time to build that sense of confidence
S4: with each other. And I think, I think it would
S4: be more difficult in a second marriage than it would
S4: be in a first marriage. I mean, we all have
S4: to do that in a first marriage as well, you know,
S4: because there's a whole lot we don't know about each
S4: other when we get married, and we have to work
S4: through all of that. But I think in a second
S4: marriage it would probably be even more difficult. So I'd
S4: just say a word to the caregiver who's listening, who
S4: just feels hopeless, you know? It's just too overwhelming to them.
S4: What would you say to them?
S2: I think hopelessness comes from a feeling that you're alone.
S2: And I would just say to that caregiver, you're not alone.
S2: God is right in the midst of your suffering. He's
S2: right in the midst of the mundane and the monotonous
S2: and the screaming and the diaper changes and the feeding
S2: and all of it. God is is right there, just
S2: as he was with Jesus, his son, in the Garden
S2: of Gethsemane when He begged his father in heaven, please
S2: take this cup from me. But then surrendered and said,
S2: but not my will, but yours be done. I would
S2: just encourage this individual to surrender and to recognize God
S2: is right there, and to invite him into your your
S2: struggles and allow him to strengthen you and sustain you.
S4: Well, Jess, I really appreciate you being with us today,
S4: and I think this book is going to help any
S4: caregiver out there, and we just want to help get
S4: the word out, because I think it's so important. And
S4: I think also encourage them to go to the website,
S4: your website, and Chris can share that with us again
S4: before we go off the air later. But thank you
S4: for being with us, and thank you for allowing God
S4: to use all the hard stuff in your life to
S4: bless the lives of others. So thanks for being with us.
S2: Yeah, thanks for having me.
S3: What an encouraging hour with Jess, Ronnie, Ronnie. E. And
S3: if you want to find out more about the book,
S3: go to. Building relationships. Does caregiving with grit and Grace
S3: is that title? We also mentioned the documentary unseen. You
S3: can find out more about that at caregiver, doc.com or
S3: the Lucas Project.org has some great information for you there too.
S3: The Lucas Project.org.
S4: And next week how to discover the power to create
S4: a marriage. You and your spouse love here.
S1: Doctor Bob Paul's encouragement in one week. Our thanks to
S1: our production team, Steve Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships
S1: with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio
S1: in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
S1: Thanks for listening.