WEBVTT - Caregiving With Grit and Grace | Jess Ronne 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.199 If you're a caregiver for a child, a relative, or 0:00:03.230 --> 0:00:05.990 a friend, don't miss the help and hope on today's 0:00:05.990 --> 0:00:08.869 building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman. 0:00:09.710 --> 0:00:12.020 It's just amazing to me what God has done with 0:00:12.020 --> 0:00:15.920 his story and how there has been so much beauty 0:00:15.950 --> 0:00:20.780 from ashes. When when initially I thought, you know, my 0:00:20.780 --> 0:00:23.060 situation was completely hopeless. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:31.640 Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.480 the New York Times bestseller, The Five Love Languages. The 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:40.100 demands of caregiving can often leave you feeling exhausted, isolated, stressed, 0:00:40.100 --> 0:00:45.110 or unappreciated. Today, Jessica Rainey shares her caregiving story and 0:00:45.110 --> 0:00:48.320 how her perspective has been transformed by grace. 0:00:48.350 --> 0:00:52.489 Our featured resource at Building Relationships US is Jessica's book 0:00:52.490 --> 0:00:57.350 caregiving with grit and Grace. A mom discovers meaning, strength, 0:00:57.350 --> 0:01:00.950 and gratitude as a caregiver. You can find out more 0:01:00.980 --> 0:01:05.990 at building relationships.us. Gary is a pastor. You have seen 0:01:05.990 --> 0:01:10.490 the silent struggles of caregivers and the difficulties they face, 0:01:10.490 --> 0:01:11.330 haven't you? 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.590 Absolutely, Chris. You know, I deeply, deeply admire those people 0:01:15.590 --> 0:01:19.910 who are caregivers because it's 24 hours for many of them. 0:01:19.940 --> 0:01:22.400 You know, if they're in the home and family members, 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.910 it's a 24 hour situation. So, yeah, no, there's a 0:01:25.940 --> 0:01:29.570 lot of lot of struggle there. But hopefully and thankfully 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:34.160 when God gives grace, people never, ever regret caring for 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.160 family members, you know? And of course there are people. 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.770 That's their lifestyle. I mean, that's what they do. They 0:01:39.770 --> 0:01:42.590 work in that, you know, as caregivers. So I'm excited 0:01:42.590 --> 0:01:44.300 about our conversation today. 0:01:44.540 --> 0:01:49.640 Let me introduce our guest, Jess. Ronnie is an author, caregiver, advocate, 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.330 podcast host of coffee with caregivers and associate producer of 0:01:53.330 --> 0:01:58.270 the documentary Unseen How We're Failing Parent caregivers and why 0:01:58.270 --> 0:02:01.870 it matters. She holds a master's degree in education. She's 0:02:01.870 --> 0:02:05.290 the founder of Hope farm, which is a residential home 0:02:05.290 --> 0:02:09.880 for disabled adults and the executive director of the Lucas Project, 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:14.919 a nonprofit dedicated to serving parent caregivers. Jess and her husband, Ryan, 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:19.540 live in Holland, Michigan with their eight children and are featured. Resource. 0:02:19.540 --> 0:02:22.090 If you go to Building Relationships us, you'll see it 0:02:22.090 --> 0:02:27.309 right there. Caregiving with grit and Grace a mom discovers meaning, strength, 0:02:27.310 --> 0:02:32.769 and gratitude as a caregiver. Again, go to building relationships.us. 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.220 Well, Jess, welcome to Building Relationships. 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.280 Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. 0:02:39.340 --> 0:02:42.490 It seems to me that the ministry you have is 0:02:42.490 --> 0:02:45.970 directly related to a lot of the pain and struggle 0:02:45.970 --> 0:02:49.240 you've experienced in your own life. Is that true? 0:02:49.330 --> 0:02:53.920 Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, Lucas, my son, who is 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:58.990 profoundly disabled, has always been the thread to everything I've 0:02:58.990 --> 0:03:02.830 really created for the past, um, 12, 15 years. From 0:03:02.830 --> 0:03:06.160 the nonprofit to the books to the podcasts to the documentary. 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.030 It's all been to not only bring awareness and resources 0:03:10.030 --> 0:03:13.510 for other people, but it's been to create awareness and 0:03:13.510 --> 0:03:16.210 resources for our family as well. 0:03:16.510 --> 0:03:18.160 How old is Lucas now? 0:03:18.190 --> 0:03:19.540 He's 20. 0:03:19.570 --> 0:03:23.500 20? Yeah. Well, before we get into your story, tell 0:03:23.500 --> 0:03:29.020 us what inspired you to write caregiving with grit and Grace. 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.989 Yeah, that's that's kind of a funny story. My husband 0:03:32.020 --> 0:03:35.110 actually said to me for years, you should write a 0:03:35.110 --> 0:03:39.160 devotional book for caregivers. And I said, I don't know 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.610 that I'm the right person to do that. It just 0:03:42.910 --> 0:03:48.820 I didn't feel equipped, I guess, um, to minister to 0:03:48.850 --> 0:03:54.600 caregivers in such a profound capacity. And he finally convinced me, 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:58.050 along with my agent, to write a proposal. And I did. 0:03:58.050 --> 0:04:02.160 And a publisher loved it and offered me a contract. 0:04:02.190 --> 0:04:06.089 And that's how caregiving with grit and Grace came about. 0:04:06.090 --> 0:04:10.500 And it's so funny. I actually wrote that book as 0:04:10.500 --> 0:04:15.180 we were creating a group home for Lucas, and it 0:04:15.180 --> 0:04:19.320 almost became like God was downloading a love letter to 0:04:19.350 --> 0:04:22.920 a grieving mother as I prepared to release my son 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.920 to the care of others. And it in turn has 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.850 become a love letter to caregivers around the world. 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:35.070 Yeah, sometimes God does things we don't anticipate, right? Yes. 0:04:35.070 --> 0:04:38.460 Sometimes that's a story of my life. 0:04:38.700 --> 0:04:42.419 Yeah. And what do you hope caregivers who are listening 0:04:42.450 --> 0:04:45.870 today take away from our conversation? 0:04:46.050 --> 0:04:51.990 I really hope that they're encouraged to reframe their Perspectives 0:04:52.050 --> 0:04:55.770 in regards to caregiving. I know it's often seen as 0:04:55.770 --> 0:05:00.989 monotonous and mundane and, um, you know, grunt work that 0:05:00.990 --> 0:05:03.690 we have to do. And I would just really encourage 0:05:03.690 --> 0:05:08.279 caregivers to reframe their perspective and see it as holy work, really, 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.980 the holiest work we can do this side of eternity 0:05:10.980 --> 0:05:14.490 is caring for someone who cannot care for themselves. And 0:05:14.490 --> 0:05:18.390 in fact, through our caregiving, we are becoming more like 0:05:18.390 --> 0:05:21.870 Christ who came to earth with the sole purpose of 0:05:21.870 --> 0:05:24.810 caring for us, our physical needs, our mental needs, our 0:05:24.810 --> 0:05:28.830 spiritual needs, and so to reframe our perspectives and see 0:05:28.830 --> 0:05:31.680 it in light of becoming more Christ like has just 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.469 been really a game changer for me and my personal 0:05:34.470 --> 0:05:36.030 caregiving journey as well. 0:05:36.060 --> 0:05:41.159 Yeah, I greatly admire caregivers. I mean, I just I 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.650 stand in awe sometimes as I see, you know, what 0:05:43.650 --> 0:05:47.460 you and others you know, deal with on a regular basis. 0:05:47.460 --> 0:05:51.020 So you dedicate the book to your son Lucas, who 0:05:51.050 --> 0:05:54.890 you thank for teaching you what it truly looks like 0:05:54.890 --> 0:05:59.150 to lay down your life for another. What happened with Lucas? 0:05:59.810 --> 0:06:03.020 Uh, Lucas was diagnosed with a stroke in utero at 0:06:03.020 --> 0:06:06.440 my 20 week ultrasound appointment. We were told that there 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.349 was very little hope. And it was suggested that we 0:06:09.350 --> 0:06:12.860 terminate and try again. And the doctor's words. You're young 0:06:12.860 --> 0:06:16.250 and healthy. You won't have any problems getting pregnant. Uh, 0:06:16.250 --> 0:06:19.730 it's just nature's way. These fetuses aren't supposed to make it. 0:06:19.730 --> 0:06:22.550 And my husband, Jason, and I instead put Lucas in 0:06:22.550 --> 0:06:25.400 the Lord's hands and trusted that his will would be done. 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.940 And Lucas came out screaming with life four months later. Uh, 0:06:28.940 --> 0:06:32.180 he underwent brain surgery, spent two weeks in the NICU, 0:06:32.180 --> 0:06:35.060 and then we were handed our baby with kind of 0:06:35.089 --> 0:06:38.719 an umbrella diagnosis of special needs and told good luck. 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.790 And Jason and I just looked at each other in awe. 0:06:40.820 --> 0:06:43.430 We had gone from, there's no hope your baby's going 0:06:43.430 --> 0:06:47.510 to die to here you go. Good luck. And so 0:06:47.660 --> 0:06:51.620 we just went home elated that we were going home 0:06:51.620 --> 0:06:54.440 with our miracle baby. I did not grieve one single 0:06:54.470 --> 0:06:59.089 bit that Lucas might have any additional needs or disabilities. 0:06:59.089 --> 0:07:01.820 I was just thrilled to be going home with a 0:07:01.820 --> 0:07:02.659 live baby. 0:07:02.690 --> 0:07:07.130 Yeah. Wow. Wow. Well, I know a lot of caregivers 0:07:07.130 --> 0:07:11.300 who recognize the pain, the struggle which you came to 0:07:11.330 --> 0:07:14.540 recognize as time went on. How do you come to 0:07:14.570 --> 0:07:17.660 grips with the term of the prospect of being a 0:07:17.660 --> 0:07:21.410 lifelong caregiver, which is what it's really turning out to 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:22.430 you for you? 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:27.470 Mhm. That was a process. Um, and I don't really 0:07:27.470 --> 0:07:29.780 think I came to grips with it until Lucas started 0:07:29.780 --> 0:07:33.260 to go through puberty and became aggressive. And we had 0:07:33.290 --> 0:07:37.100 behavioral challenges, and he would lash out at me and 0:07:37.100 --> 0:07:42.470 at his siblings, and he was incontinent and non-verbal. And, 0:07:42.500 --> 0:07:44.810 you know, when he was an adorable little boy, it 0:07:44.810 --> 0:07:48.739 was easy to find people to help, even to step in, 0:07:48.770 --> 0:07:50.180 you know, with a five or a six year old 0:07:50.180 --> 0:07:53.720 who's in diapers. But when that child is 16, 17, 18, 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:58.100 still in diapers and now capable of hurting people, nobody 0:07:58.100 --> 0:08:01.220 wants to help anymore. And that's when it became very 0:08:01.220 --> 0:08:05.810 apparent to me that this was a lifelong gig that 0:08:05.810 --> 0:08:09.830 the Lord had called me to. And I think that's 0:08:09.830 --> 0:08:14.690 when I really even began to grieve the fact that 0:08:14.690 --> 0:08:19.880 Lucas had special needs and and even grieve the fact 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.510 that he wasn't a typical child and began to process like, 0:08:23.510 --> 0:08:26.690 what will our future look like with this child? 0:08:26.870 --> 0:08:31.940 Well, what advice would you give other parents who are 0:08:31.940 --> 0:08:35.480 facing a similar situation to what you faced? 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.800 I think it boils down to really one word surrender. 0:08:39.830 --> 0:08:44.650 And that is like a daily surrender To the father's 0:08:44.650 --> 0:08:49.240 care and trusting his heart not only for yourself as 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.090 a parent, but trusting his heart for your child and 0:08:52.090 --> 0:08:57.429 for your family, and truly trusting that he is able 0:08:57.429 --> 0:09:00.939 to do exceedingly more than we could ever comprehend or 0:09:00.940 --> 0:09:06.790 imagine with our stories. When we are obedient and step 0:09:06.790 --> 0:09:09.070 into the the plan and the life that he has 0:09:09.070 --> 0:09:10.059 for us. 0:09:10.150 --> 0:09:13.809 I think a lot of listeners who have never experienced 0:09:13.809 --> 0:09:18.100 anything like this, really, it's hard to even comprehend what 0:09:18.100 --> 0:09:19.719 that would be like. 0:09:19.990 --> 0:09:20.560 Mhm. 0:09:20.980 --> 0:09:24.910 Well, Jess, what are the daily challenges of caring for 0:09:24.910 --> 0:09:27.880 your son Lucas now at this juncture? 0:09:28.420 --> 0:09:32.260 Well, like I mentioned earlier, we actually created a group 0:09:32.260 --> 0:09:36.400 home for him and he moved into that home a 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.689 year ago, February 1st. So for the past year I've 0:09:40.690 --> 0:09:44.620 been really processing and grieving and accepting over and over 0:09:44.620 --> 0:09:47.800 again the fact that I'm not his full time primary 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:52.510 caregiver anymore. And so it looks very different than it 0:09:52.510 --> 0:09:55.809 did even a year ago. But even, you know, for up, 0:09:55.809 --> 0:09:59.380 up for 19 years, up to 19 years, he required 0:09:59.380 --> 0:10:06.069 full time care bathing, diapering, um, feeding, getting him ready. 0:10:06.070 --> 0:10:09.400 Every morning. I slept with a baby monitor beside my 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.400 head for 19 years because he didn't sleep very well 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.830 and would wake up in the middle of the night 0:10:14.860 --> 0:10:19.120 screaming or, um, creating self injuries by banging his head 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:24.339 against his arm. Um, so just 24 over seven care. 0:10:24.370 --> 0:10:28.719 So living like 19 years really in a form of 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.450 survival mode as a caregiver? 0:10:31.780 --> 0:10:35.110 Yeah. I want to ask you a really personal question. 0:10:35.290 --> 0:10:42.240 Have you ever felt angry or frustration toward God in 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:43.469 this situation. 0:10:43.890 --> 0:10:49.830 Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And especially I feel like I surrendered 0:10:49.830 --> 0:10:54.480 much faster during my pregnancy with Lucas. But later on, 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:59.370 as I walked through my husband's three year journey with cancer, 0:10:59.370 --> 0:11:03.780 I was extremely angry and could not understand or comprehend 0:11:03.809 --> 0:11:08.910 why the Lord would require such a difficult path for me. 0:11:09.390 --> 0:11:13.650 With numerous brain surgeries with Lucas and his father and 0:11:13.650 --> 0:11:16.920 four young children that I had to care for, I 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.569 don't know that I manage those emotions very well. During 0:11:21.570 --> 0:11:26.820 Jason's cancer journey, I acknowledged them. God and I wrestled greatly, 0:11:26.820 --> 0:11:31.800 I lamented, I screamed, I wailed, and really, only up 0:11:31.830 --> 0:11:35.760 until two weeks before Jason passed away did I finally 0:11:35.790 --> 0:11:39.809 drop to my knees and surrender and say, okay, I, 0:11:39.809 --> 0:11:42.660 I wanted you to take this cup from me. Just 0:11:42.660 --> 0:11:46.110 like Jesus pleaded in the Garden of Gethsemane. I don't 0:11:46.110 --> 0:11:50.910 want to carry this heavy burden, but you have called 0:11:50.910 --> 0:11:54.240 me to carry this, and not my will, but yours 0:11:54.270 --> 0:11:56.429 be done. You are God, and I am not. And 0:11:56.429 --> 0:12:01.079 from that moment forward, something shifted, and Jason actually passed 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.860 away two weeks later. But in that shift, I did 0:12:04.860 --> 0:12:06.900 find peace moving forward. 0:12:07.410 --> 0:12:12.120 Well, I think sometimes Christians say, well, you should never 0:12:12.150 --> 0:12:17.400 get angry with God or frustrated with God. The reality is, 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.790 we all do at times when we don't understand what's 0:12:20.790 --> 0:12:23.940 going on. But the reality is we're not going to 0:12:23.970 --> 0:12:27.240 understand everything that happens in our lives. And somewhere along 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.640 the line, we have to come to where you finally came, 0:12:29.670 --> 0:12:32.640 you know, and that is accepting the reality and putting 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.120 the whole thing in God's hands, even though we don't understand. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:42.540 So you became a widow with four children. How did 0:12:42.540 --> 0:12:45.420 you deal with that? And did you have a support 0:12:45.420 --> 0:12:48.870 system that was helping you or. Wow. I mean, I'm just. 0:12:48.870 --> 0:12:53.489 I'm just feeling a lot of pain myself as I'm 0:12:53.490 --> 0:12:54.600 listening to you. 0:12:54.660 --> 0:12:58.679 It was, um, you know, the funny, not the funny thing. 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:03.210 The interesting thing, really? Um, when Jason passed away, there 0:13:03.210 --> 0:13:09.150 was finally almost some peace, uh, because I had put 0:13:09.150 --> 0:13:12.810 forth so much energy caring for him for three years. Brain. 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:17.699 Brain cancer is a cruel, cruel taskmaster. By the time 0:13:17.700 --> 0:13:20.250 he passed away, I missed him deeply. But I did 0:13:20.250 --> 0:13:26.729 not miss Jason, who had brain cancer. Our relationship had 0:13:26.730 --> 0:13:33.330 definitely shifted from a spousal relationship to a caregiver and 0:13:33.330 --> 0:13:38.089 one who needed care, and I devoted myself to him 0:13:38.090 --> 0:13:42.650 in his final months, years, and so much so that 0:13:42.650 --> 0:13:47.450 I really missed my kids. And so when he he 0:13:47.450 --> 0:13:51.920 passed away, I just really dove into being a mom 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.040 again and reconnecting with my four young children. I had 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:59.300 four children under seven years old, including Lucas, um, who 0:13:59.300 --> 0:14:04.609 was profoundly disabled. And so to not have cancer to 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:08.450 deal with anymore, there was sort of this peace to 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.780 be able to focus on my kids again. And I 0:14:11.780 --> 0:14:15.170 had a really strong support system for the the three 0:14:15.170 --> 0:14:18.620 years that Jason went through brain cancer. And it's always 0:14:18.620 --> 0:14:22.250 interesting as I look back and reflect, I didn't cook 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.800 a meal or or do my laundry or clean my 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.460 house or anything really. For three years I had so 0:14:28.460 --> 0:14:33.130 much help as Jason was battling cancer, But then I 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.930 compare that to raising Lucas for 20 years, and there's 0:14:37.930 --> 0:14:41.710 been very little help. And I think people are just 0:14:41.710 --> 0:14:45.580 much more eager to step into those short term opportunities 0:14:45.580 --> 0:14:49.030 and help out. And there's something very daunting about those 0:14:49.030 --> 0:14:53.260 longer years upon years upon years of raising a child 0:14:53.260 --> 0:14:55.720 that they don't maybe know what to do with, or 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.680 there's some fear associated with stepping in and helping those families. 0:14:59.860 --> 0:15:03.100 Yeah, I can I can see that. How long were 0:15:03.100 --> 0:15:06.130 you and Jason married before he passed away? 0:15:06.790 --> 0:15:08.170 Uh, 11 years. 0:15:08.230 --> 0:15:12.100 11 years? Mhm. Wow. How old was he? 0:15:12.130 --> 0:15:13.900 He was 33. 0:15:13.930 --> 0:15:14.920 33. 0:15:15.100 --> 0:15:20.110 Most of our marriage was just fighting one hurdle battle 0:15:20.110 --> 0:15:24.310 after another. Um, it you know, it's interesting to reflect 0:15:24.310 --> 0:15:28.960 back on that. Even we we had very little periods 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:33.730 of peace just between Lucas and Jason's constant battles with 0:15:33.730 --> 0:15:35.860 brain cancer. Yeah. 0:15:36.310 --> 0:15:39.700 Are your other four children all healthy physically? 0:15:39.730 --> 0:15:43.570 I have eight children now. Yes. All seven of them 0:15:43.570 --> 0:15:47.110 are healthy. Um, yes. And the other three are very healthy. 0:15:47.620 --> 0:15:49.480 Okay, well, now you got to tell us how you 0:15:49.510 --> 0:15:55.780 got eight children. In due time, it sounds like God 0:15:55.780 --> 0:15:57.430 led you to another man. 0:15:57.850 --> 0:16:03.160 He did? Um, yes. Very interesting part of the story. Um, 0:16:03.190 --> 0:16:09.310 at Jason's funeral, his mom actually pulled me aside and said. Jess, 0:16:09.310 --> 0:16:11.800 I just want you to know I'm praying for your 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:16.990 next husband. And that kind of shocked me because I 0:16:16.990 --> 0:16:20.080 wasn't in any frame of mind to be thinking about 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.970 getting married again. At that point, I was hopeful that 0:16:24.970 --> 0:16:27.760 I would get married again. I really enjoyed marriage. I 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.100 had a good marriage and I wanted that again in 0:16:30.100 --> 0:16:35.109 my life. And little did I know, three months later, 0:16:35.470 --> 0:16:38.980 a stranger left a comment on my blog I had 0:16:38.980 --> 0:16:43.030 blogged during Jason's cancer journey just to keep the masses updated, 0:16:43.030 --> 0:16:46.330 and she was from Pennsylvania and she said, I don't 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.690 know why I'm asking you to do this, but I 0:16:49.690 --> 0:16:53.560 just would like you to reach out to this widower 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.860 in Oklahoma. He lost his wife to brain cancer four 0:16:56.860 --> 0:17:00.160 days after Jason died, and he has three young children 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.400 and he's not doing very well. And so I found 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.160 his blog and left a comment. And I woke up 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.609 the next day to an email from this man. And 0:17:09.609 --> 0:17:13.180 those emails turned into phone calls, and we eventually met 0:17:13.180 --> 0:17:18.280 and we were married in April of 2011. He moved 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.729 to Michigan and we adopted each other's children, and we 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.880 went on to have an eighth and final child together 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:26.429 in 15. 0:17:27.060 --> 0:17:34.530 Wow. Oh, no. Now tell me. I know our listeners 0:17:34.530 --> 0:17:38.010 are asking. I'm asking. How long was it from the 0:17:38.010 --> 0:17:40.860 time Jason died until you actually got married? 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.760 Well, Jason passed away in August, and we were married 0:17:44.790 --> 0:17:46.200 in April, so. 0:17:46.740 --> 0:17:47.430 Okay. 0:17:47.609 --> 0:17:48.930 Whatever that. Whatever. 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:50.850 Whatever that is. All right. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.150 In my defense, and I often say this, I do 0:17:54.180 --> 0:17:58.140 move quickly. Jason and I were married 11 months after 0:17:58.140 --> 0:18:01.740 meeting as well, so I'm just a very decisive woman, so. 0:18:01.770 --> 0:18:04.949 Okay. I hear you, I hear you. Right. Well, you know, 0:18:05.190 --> 0:18:09.419 I think sometimes we experience this where now your children 0:18:09.420 --> 0:18:13.290 are still young, but where children that are older and 0:18:13.290 --> 0:18:16.260 their father dies and their mother marries, you know, within 0:18:16.260 --> 0:18:18.930 six months or seven months or whatever and say, wait 0:18:18.930 --> 0:18:20.760 a minute, mama, wait a minute, wait a minute. What 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.180 are you doing? I've seen that in my counseling, you know, 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.840 through the years. Yes, but but there is no pattern, 0:18:27.869 --> 0:18:30.210 you know, as to or in time pattern in terms 0:18:30.210 --> 0:18:33.480 of when God brings someone into your life and brings 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.020 you together. Well, I'm impressed that he moved to Michigan 0:18:37.020 --> 0:18:39.360 from Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Is that what you said? 0:18:39.660 --> 0:18:42.510 Well, he only lasted two years in Michigan. And then 0:18:42.510 --> 0:18:44.520 he said, I can't deal with the snow. So we 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.530 moved to Tennessee. So. 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:47.190 Okay. 0:18:47.220 --> 0:18:49.410 All right. He didn't he didn't last real long. But 0:18:49.410 --> 0:18:51.330 here we are back in Michigan now. 0:18:51.510 --> 0:18:53.070 Oh, you're back in Michigan. 0:18:53.100 --> 0:18:53.700 Okay. Right. 0:18:53.730 --> 0:19:01.080 Well, okay. So being a parent caregiver can give you anxiety, 0:19:01.109 --> 0:19:05.100 can bring depression, can bring chronic stress. And you say 0:19:05.100 --> 0:19:09.240 in the documentary that your heart races. What do you 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:13.139 do with all these feelings that affect you even physically? 0:19:13.380 --> 0:19:17.880 Hum. Yeah. That was that was a battle like I mentioned. 0:19:17.910 --> 0:19:20.820 You kind of live in this constant state of survival 0:19:20.820 --> 0:19:25.250 mode and I recognized it, I acknowledged it, I prayed 0:19:25.250 --> 0:19:28.460 about it. I was honest about my needs, but my 0:19:28.460 --> 0:19:32.240 body still was in a chronic state of pain that 0:19:32.270 --> 0:19:37.670 nobody could really figure out. And only honestly. Since Lucas 0:19:37.670 --> 0:19:41.270 moved into his new home, a couple of daily practices 0:19:41.270 --> 0:19:43.430 have been able to release a lot of that pain 0:19:43.430 --> 0:19:47.480 from my body. And one daily practice is going for 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.230 a walk and and really kind of shaking out some 0:19:51.230 --> 0:19:54.950 of that stress and that trauma. Another daily practice is 0:19:54.980 --> 0:19:58.970 inviting the father, son and Holy Spirit into my daily 0:19:58.970 --> 0:20:03.710 life and praying for courage and clarity and anointing and 0:20:03.710 --> 0:20:08.240 and operating in, in the spirit. And then, um, I 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.330 try to set aside some time to, to do some stretching, 0:20:11.390 --> 0:20:15.110 but it's it's very, very challenging when you're living in 0:20:15.109 --> 0:20:17.270 the middle of it, because I know I did a 0:20:17.270 --> 0:20:20.900 lot of things right. And I was still really feeling 0:20:20.990 --> 0:20:24.889 the chronic effects of the stress on my body. And 0:20:24.890 --> 0:20:27.830 so I think it's for a lot of caregivers just 0:20:27.830 --> 0:20:32.090 being very honest about your needs and inviting people to 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:36.770 step into your life and help out and accepting that help. 0:20:36.770 --> 0:20:38.869 I know a lot of times as caregivers, it's really 0:20:38.869 --> 0:20:43.399 challenging for us to admit that we could use the help. 0:20:43.790 --> 0:20:46.399 And so we'll we'll say we're fine, everything's fine, and 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:50.030 everything's really not fine. So accepting that help and then 0:20:50.030 --> 0:20:52.160 and then trying to take some time to really take 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:53.390 care of yourself. 0:20:53.900 --> 0:20:56.119 Yeah. So that self care and the things you were 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.600 talking about really is important. Right. Because if we don't 0:20:59.630 --> 0:21:03.140 take care of ourselves, we can't take care of children 0:21:03.140 --> 0:21:04.730 or anybody else ultimately. 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:06.379 Yeah, exactly. 0:21:06.500 --> 0:21:10.550 Chris mentioned the documentary earlier. Tell us a little bit 0:21:10.550 --> 0:21:14.060 about about that documentary and how that came about. 0:21:14.090 --> 0:21:19.570 Yeah, that came about after I created the Lucas Project, 0:21:19.570 --> 0:21:23.560 which is a nonprofit that serves special needs families with 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.880 resources and support. And we wanted to bring awareness to 0:21:27.910 --> 0:21:31.480 families like mine. I just thought, you know, we need 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.359 to create a documentary that kind of peels back the 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.439 curtain and exposes what life looks like, because a lot 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.650 of times people just are not familiar with families like 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.920 ours because we don't go out into the world. It's 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:48.850 not very accommodating or accessible. And so we stay home isolated. 0:21:48.850 --> 0:21:54.010 And a couple of years ago, I think it was 2018, actually, 0:21:54.010 --> 0:21:57.280 I just posted on Facebook. I said, I have this 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:01.540 great idea, I'd like to create a documentary. Um, just 0:22:01.570 --> 0:22:03.879 kind of peeling back the curtain of, of a special 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.360 needs life. And if there's a filmmaker or producer out 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.840 there that would want to meet with me and discuss 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.440 this idea, I'd love to set something up. And the 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:19.129 next day, a filmmaker from Nashville reached out and we 0:22:19.130 --> 0:22:24.170 met for lunch, and four years later we created a documentary. 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.560 They they followed our family around for about four years. 0:22:27.590 --> 0:22:31.730 The documentary is called Unseen How We're Failing Parent Caregivers 0:22:31.730 --> 0:22:35.030 and Why It Matters. And if you head to our website, 0:22:35.030 --> 0:22:40.429 caregiver.com and sign up for our newsletter, you will be 0:22:40.430 --> 0:22:43.250 kept up to date on all of the future showings 0:22:43.250 --> 0:22:44.869 that we're going to be offering. 0:22:44.900 --> 0:22:46.820 Well, I'm sure that's going to help a lot of 0:22:46.820 --> 0:22:51.230 people who, as you said earlier, are not aware and 0:22:51.230 --> 0:22:54.379 many have no idea of what this kind of lifestyle 0:22:54.380 --> 0:22:56.959 looks like. So I think that's going to that's a 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:01.370 real asset. It's amazing how God works things out, isn't it, to. 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:02.120 Get. 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:04.580 You to the right person to do that? 0:23:05.090 --> 0:23:07.760 One of the most powerful things in it, not only 0:23:07.790 --> 0:23:12.530 following your family around and seeing your husband Ryan, talk about, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:15.400 you know, how he's not going to Make five year 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.399 plans anymore that it's day by day. One of the 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:21.850 most powerful things is just the people that were interviewed 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.720 who talk about how what a struggle this is, and 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.870 they're just real and authentic and vulnerable. And I think 0:23:28.869 --> 0:23:31.960 that's one of the most powerful things of that documentary. 0:23:31.990 --> 0:23:35.950 Yeah, I would agree. And just to realize how many 0:23:35.950 --> 0:23:40.239 families are out there dealing with the same emotions, the 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:44.440 same isolation, the same depression, anxiety, and I think it 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:48.040 just really brings an awareness that there are all these 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:52.660 families and they need help in some, in some way. 0:23:52.690 --> 0:23:53.470 Yeah. 0:23:53.590 --> 0:23:57.820 Well, even the comparison of of Covid, the pandemic and 0:23:57.820 --> 0:24:01.990 what happened with the shutdown, you say in there that 0:24:01.990 --> 0:24:04.690 in a lot of ways, this is the same thing 0:24:04.690 --> 0:24:08.590 that happened to families who are doing that caregiving. It's 0:24:08.590 --> 0:24:11.980 just it for them. It didn't end right. 0:24:12.210 --> 0:24:15.300 No. We kind of laughed, even during the pandemic. Like 0:24:15.330 --> 0:24:17.970 the whole world was freaking out about not being able 0:24:17.970 --> 0:24:20.370 to go out. And we were like, this is just 0:24:20.369 --> 0:24:22.889 life is normal. Outside of Luke not being able to 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:27.689 go to school. That was very challenging because he loved 0:24:27.690 --> 0:24:30.629 school and did not understand or comprehend why he couldn't 0:24:30.630 --> 0:24:32.820 go to school, and so that resulted in a lot 0:24:32.820 --> 0:24:36.390 of screaming all day long. But yeah, other than that, 0:24:36.390 --> 0:24:39.300 it was kind of life as normal. Like this. This 0:24:39.300 --> 0:24:41.100 is just how we do life. 0:24:41.670 --> 0:24:45.870 One of the really powerful comments came from a woman, 0:24:45.869 --> 0:24:50.430 and she was teary eyed as she talked, and she 0:24:50.430 --> 0:24:53.100 was speaking a little softer, and she says, 2:00 in 0:24:53.100 --> 0:24:56.130 the morning. This is the only time when I that 0:24:56.130 --> 0:24:59.700 I have to myself and I saw that. And it's like, 0:24:59.700 --> 0:25:03.120 that speaks volumes, doesn't it, Jess? 0:25:03.150 --> 0:25:03.840 Yeah it. 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:08.609 Does. Yeah. And I mean, I would never sacrifice sleep, 0:25:08.609 --> 0:25:09.810 but she. 0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:11.760 She Apparently, I. 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:13.379 Enjoy my sleep too much. 0:25:13.380 --> 0:25:14.310 Um, but. 0:25:14.310 --> 0:25:17.520 Yeah, you just learn to cope. However, you need to 0:25:17.550 --> 0:25:21.270 cope so that you can continue to rise another day 0:25:21.270 --> 0:25:22.859 and do it all over again. 0:25:26.460 --> 0:25:30.600 This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast. 0:25:30.630 --> 0:25:33.270 Gary's the author of the New York Times best seller 0:25:33.300 --> 0:25:36.330 The Five Love Languages. You can take a quiz to 0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:39.240 discover your love language and find out about our featured 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:44.280 resource at Building relationships.us. Jess Ronnie is our guest in 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.490 her book is our featured resource. It's titled caregiving with 0:25:47.490 --> 0:25:51.690 grit and Grace. Just go to building relationships.us. 0:25:53.580 --> 0:25:57.810 Jess, you mentioned earlier, of course, you obviously were praying 0:25:57.810 --> 0:26:01.169 through all this, but you prayed for healing, you know, 0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:06.000 for your son Lucas and your first husband, Jason. What 0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:09.110 did you come to understand after you realized realize that 0:26:09.140 --> 0:26:11.929 healing was not going to occur? 0:26:12.500 --> 0:26:16.669 I came to understand years later that it was really 0:26:16.670 --> 0:26:23.000 more about healing me of my preconceived ideas, of how 0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:27.830 I thought God should orchestrate my life, um, my ideas 0:26:27.830 --> 0:26:32.930 of control and really healing me, of my ideas of 0:26:32.930 --> 0:26:38.000 of pride and ego, which are ultimately steeped in this 0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:41.090 idea of control that we think we have over our lives, 0:26:41.090 --> 0:26:45.440 and even an understanding that Jason is completely healed. He 0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:49.490 received the best kind of healing when he went home 0:26:49.490 --> 0:26:54.919 to heaven. And Lucas, too, is completely healed according to 0:26:54.950 --> 0:26:59.210 the way God wanted Lucas's life to bring glory to him. 0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:01.490 You know, I look at him, one of the most 0:27:01.520 --> 0:27:05.810 humble individuals on this planet who has no ego or 0:27:05.810 --> 0:27:09.080 pride or. and it's just amazing to me what God 0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:12.260 has done with his story and how he's brought so 0:27:12.260 --> 0:27:17.480 much hope and encouragement through his life. And, you know, 0:27:17.510 --> 0:27:21.170 the the documentary and the nonprofit and the books about him. 0:27:21.170 --> 0:27:26.150 And it's just really remarkable to me how there has 0:27:26.150 --> 0:27:30.950 been so much beauty from ashes when when initially I thought, 0:27:30.980 --> 0:27:34.399 you know, my situation was completely hopeless. 0:27:34.940 --> 0:27:37.730 I can certainly understand where you would get to the 0:27:37.730 --> 0:27:40.429 place where you feel like there's just no hope. It's 0:27:40.430 --> 0:27:42.980 not going to happen. They're not going to be healed. 0:27:43.850 --> 0:27:47.330 And yet, as you say, we recognize God. God is 0:27:47.330 --> 0:27:51.020 sovereign and God is going to work good out of 0:27:51.020 --> 0:27:54.649 our situation. We just need to be open to him 0:27:54.650 --> 0:27:57.680 and gear into what he's doing. Right. 0:27:57.770 --> 0:27:58.369 Mhm. 0:27:58.400 --> 0:27:59.660 Exactly. 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:07.149 Now you describe caregiving as holy work. H-o-l-y holy work. 0:28:07.540 --> 0:28:08.710 What does that mean? 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:12.820 Uh, for me, like I mentioned earlier, it was really 0:28:12.820 --> 0:28:16.420 a process of learning to reframe my perspective. And it 0:28:16.450 --> 0:28:19.629 it came after a day Lucas was around 15 years 0:28:19.630 --> 0:28:24.369 old and he was sick and he was not happy. 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:28.120 And I had a deadline for a book I was writing. 0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:31.600 I was the executive director of this new nonprofit that 0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:35.500 I had just started. Lots of big, exciting things on 0:28:35.500 --> 0:28:41.410 the horizon, and Lucas kept screaming all day, um, because 0:28:41.410 --> 0:28:44.830 he wasn't feeling well. He had numerous diapers that I 0:28:44.830 --> 0:28:48.520 was changing, and I was just very irritated and annoyed 0:28:48.610 --> 0:28:53.440 and grumbling about it. And the Holy Spirit just whispered 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:55.930 to me, just, this is holy work. This is the 0:28:55.930 --> 0:29:01.390 holiest work that you can do in serving your son. 0:29:02.020 --> 0:29:05.200 That just that moment changed me, so much so that 0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:08.980 I had a sign created that says, this is holy work, 0:29:08.980 --> 0:29:12.700 and hung it above Lucas's bed just as a constant, 0:29:12.730 --> 0:29:17.500 tangible reminder that caring for my son was the most 0:29:17.500 --> 0:29:20.290 important work. All of the other stuff was good stuff. 0:29:20.290 --> 0:29:23.560 It was God ordained stuff. But in laying down my 0:29:23.560 --> 0:29:26.440 life to care for my son, I was becoming more 0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:27.640 Christ like. 0:29:28.090 --> 0:29:29.050 Well. 0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:34.360 I'm sure there are people, when they find themselves in 0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:39.490 a caregiver situation that they don't feel equipped to do this. 0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:42.940 I'm assuming you probably felt the same way. What guidance 0:29:42.940 --> 0:29:46.300 would you give to someone who just says, I don't? 0:29:46.300 --> 0:29:48.250 I'm just not equipped to do this. I just don't 0:29:48.280 --> 0:29:49.810 know how I'm going to do this. 0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:54.640 I kind of jokingly call myself a reluctant caregiver because 0:29:54.640 --> 0:29:57.520 if I were God looking for somebody to put in 0:29:57.520 --> 0:30:01.680 a caregiver role, it would not be just Ronnie. I'm not. 0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:02.070 Um. 0:30:02.100 --> 0:30:04.830 I would make a horrible nurse. I'm not like the 0:30:04.830 --> 0:30:08.190 mom who snuggles with sick kids on the couch. I'm 0:30:08.190 --> 0:30:10.440 more of a like, here's your bucket. Let me know 0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:14.910 if you need something. But the Lord and his great 0:30:14.910 --> 0:30:20.790 mercy has used my particular skill set to not only 0:30:20.790 --> 0:30:25.650 teach me how to care for others, but also in 0:30:25.650 --> 0:30:30.630 using my skill set. I've realized that I am a doer, 0:30:30.630 --> 0:30:34.410 I'm a fixer, I'm a problem solver. And so I've 0:30:34.410 --> 0:30:40.110 been able to model these attributes for other caregivers and 0:30:40.110 --> 0:30:45.750 I think bring hope and encouragement along the journey. And 0:30:45.750 --> 0:30:47.970 I would just say to that person, God does know 0:30:47.970 --> 0:30:51.210 what he's doing. You may look at it and and 0:30:51.210 --> 0:30:54.450 be like, this does not seem right. I am not 0:30:54.450 --> 0:30:57.510 the right person to care for this individual, but he 0:30:57.510 --> 0:31:01.470 will equip you. And it again comes back to that surrender. 0:31:01.470 --> 0:31:05.610 If you surrender and obey, just obey the next step, 0:31:06.150 --> 0:31:09.690 the next action that you need to take. And he 0:31:09.690 --> 0:31:12.900 will equip you each and every step of the way 0:31:12.900 --> 0:31:14.580 if you allow him to. 0:31:15.420 --> 0:31:19.740 So it's reaching out to ask God for wisdom. And 0:31:19.740 --> 0:31:23.220 are there are there people in a in a community 0:31:23.220 --> 0:31:26.580 that you can reach out to that might begin to 0:31:26.580 --> 0:31:29.940 help you cope with this? Or do you sometimes recommend 0:31:29.940 --> 0:31:33.360 counseling for for somebody that's in this situation? 0:31:34.140 --> 0:31:38.310 I would recommend counseling. I think if the counselor had 0:31:38.310 --> 0:31:41.280 an understanding of what families like ours go through, you know, 0:31:41.310 --> 0:31:44.070 my husband and I pursued counseling a couple of times, 0:31:44.070 --> 0:31:51.780 and honestly, the counselor had no background with what families 0:31:51.780 --> 0:31:54.690 like mine go through and suggested to my husband that 0:31:54.690 --> 0:31:58.440 when times get tough that he breathed in a paper sack, 0:31:58.470 --> 0:32:01.710 and a couple of weeks later, he was actually in 0:32:01.710 --> 0:32:04.830 the E.R. with panic attacks that resembled heart attacks. Because 0:32:04.830 --> 0:32:09.810 our life had gotten so overwhelming. And personally, I've found 0:32:09.810 --> 0:32:14.640 more comfort, really, in talking to other families that do 0:32:14.670 --> 0:32:19.080 get it and feeling seen. And I'm sure counselors can 0:32:19.080 --> 0:32:26.130 offer some coping skills or tools. But again, it's if 0:32:26.130 --> 0:32:29.430 you're not familiar, it's it's truly for some of these families, 0:32:29.430 --> 0:32:32.130 it's like being in a war zone day after day. 0:32:32.310 --> 0:32:32.940 Yeah. 0:32:32.970 --> 0:32:36.480 And they compare, you know, the PTSD that families like 0:32:36.480 --> 0:32:41.250 mine go through to that of vets because of the 0:32:41.250 --> 0:32:46.590 aggression and the behavioral challenges that we we walk through. So, um, 0:32:46.590 --> 0:32:49.710 there are support groups. I know the Lucas project offers 0:32:49.710 --> 0:32:53.280 a free support group. It's a virtual support group called 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:59.090 Caregivers Cove. We currently have over 2000 participants, but I 0:32:59.090 --> 0:33:01.700 would find something like that just so that you don't 0:33:01.700 --> 0:33:05.360 feel so alone and you have somebody or a group 0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:08.690 of people that you can talk to honestly and vulnerably 0:33:08.690 --> 0:33:09.980 about your life. 0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:14.840 Yeah, give us that website where they might go and 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:18.140 learn about this on the online care group. 0:33:18.620 --> 0:33:24.830 Uh, it's the Lucas Project.org and it's under our resource tab. 0:33:24.830 --> 0:33:26.810 It's called Caregivers Cove. 0:33:27.230 --> 0:33:31.280 Okay. Because I think there are many out there. If 0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:33.800 they are in this situation, they want all the help 0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:37.250 they can get. And that sounds like another another source 0:33:37.250 --> 0:33:42.500 of help. May I ask this, how has all the suffering, 0:33:42.500 --> 0:33:47.090 the loss, the struggle that you have gone through? How 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:49.580 has that affected your other children? 0:33:51.530 --> 0:33:56.810 Um, I get asked this question quite often, and we've 0:33:56.810 --> 0:34:01.400 been very honest with our kids and having eight children, 0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:04.460 there hasn't been as much time to have that individual 0:34:04.460 --> 0:34:07.520 one on one time with each child. And when we 0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.340 recognize that a child really needs that, we would carve 0:34:10.340 --> 0:34:16.370 out that time. And we've formulated more of a tribal 0:34:16.370 --> 0:34:18.920 model where it was really important to all gather around 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:22.070 the dinner table every night and share a meal together. 0:34:22.070 --> 0:34:26.750 And when one of the family members was struggling, it 0:34:26.750 --> 0:34:30.650 was important to rally around that individual and help them out. 0:34:31.070 --> 0:34:35.180 So really living in a community model within our family, 0:34:35.210 --> 0:34:39.230 and we've had a lot of honest conversations about the 0:34:39.230 --> 0:34:43.520 fact that seven of them have a very tragic story. 0:34:43.550 --> 0:34:46.190 Seven of my kids lost a parent, and all eight 0:34:46.219 --> 0:34:48.950 of them have grown up with a profoundly disabled brother. 0:34:48.950 --> 0:34:52.450 And it's up to them, really, what what they're going 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:55.630 to do with their story. They can wallow in the 0:34:55.630 --> 0:34:58.270 injustice of it, or they can trust that God has 0:34:58.270 --> 0:35:01.120 a plan for their life and for their story, and 0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:04.240 they can move forward in faith and do something positive 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:07.360 with their story. And it's been really remarkable to see. 0:35:07.390 --> 0:35:10.660 Now we have four kids who live outside of our home, 0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:16.810 all very well adjusted, kind individuals who really see other 0:35:16.810 --> 0:35:22.630 people who don't have this narcissistic tendency that you see 0:35:22.630 --> 0:35:27.910 so often in so many individuals nowadays, because they did 0:35:27.910 --> 0:35:30.340 have to rally around their brother. They they helped with 0:35:30.340 --> 0:35:34.120 their brother, and they were one of eight kids. And I, 0:35:34.150 --> 0:35:36.880 as a mother, am just so proud to see how 0:35:36.910 --> 0:35:40.030 they do see other people. And they step in and 0:35:40.030 --> 0:35:45.460 they offer assistance where that's needed. So again, it's their story. 0:35:45.460 --> 0:35:48.520 It's it's my story. It's their story. We've all had 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.820 a hard story and it's up to us to decide, 0:35:51.820 --> 0:35:54.670 are we going to trust God with that story and 0:35:54.670 --> 0:35:57.700 move forward in faith and do something positive? 0:35:58.690 --> 0:36:04.089 Now, when you married Ryan, you said he had three children. 0:36:04.150 --> 0:36:08.560 And so they're coming. They moved in with you and 0:36:08.560 --> 0:36:15.370 your four children. How did that stepparent stepchild thing was that? 0:36:15.489 --> 0:36:19.480 Was that something that there was early on acceptance of 0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:22.360 those children, or how did you how did you visualize 0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:23.290 all of that? 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:27.759 There really was because they were all so young. They 0:36:27.760 --> 0:36:31.750 were very excited to have all of these built in playmates. 0:36:31.750 --> 0:36:34.330 And you alluded to earlier, you know, it probably would 0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:36.370 have been very different if they were older, and we 0:36:36.370 --> 0:36:40.330 recognize that. But they were very excited to have a 0:36:40.330 --> 0:36:43.450 mom and a dad figure again. Um, they were very 0:36:43.450 --> 0:36:47.620 excited for all of these built in playmates. Um, and they, 0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:52.980 we didn't really have these step labels because we adopted 0:36:53.010 --> 0:36:55.830 them so early on. And in fact, my daughter Maya, 0:36:55.830 --> 0:37:00.299 one of her teachers, referred to her as my step 0:37:00.330 --> 0:37:03.090 or referred to me as her step mom. And she said, 0:37:03.090 --> 0:37:05.610 that's not my step mom, that's my mom. 0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:08.100 And so yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:37:08.280 --> 0:37:11.760 But again, we recognize they were young and so they, 0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:14.340 they just really all grew up together and they're all 0:37:14.340 --> 0:37:18.930 extremely close to this day. But I mean, we we 0:37:18.930 --> 0:37:23.880 had challenges I would say more so in our marriage 0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:27.390 and the blending of what that looked like than with 0:37:27.390 --> 0:37:32.460 the kids. I'm also the oldest of 12, so I've 0:37:32.460 --> 0:37:36.900 been sort of preparing for all these children my whole life. 0:37:36.900 --> 0:37:39.000 I've been in kind of a caregiver role since I 0:37:39.000 --> 0:37:43.350 was two years old, when my mom had twins. And 0:37:43.350 --> 0:37:45.779 I see these pictures now of two year old Jessica 0:37:45.850 --> 0:37:49.180 sitting on the couch with her twin brothers under her arms. 0:37:49.210 --> 0:37:54.250 You know, feeding them bottles. So it was just really 0:37:54.250 --> 0:37:57.040 second nature. It wasn't all that shocking to me to 0:37:57.070 --> 0:37:59.680 have so many children. I think it was more shocking 0:37:59.710 --> 0:38:02.920 to Ryan, um, to have so many children. 0:38:02.980 --> 0:38:05.980 How old were his children when they came in? 0:38:06.370 --> 0:38:11.439 Uh, six. Four and one. 0:38:11.469 --> 0:38:14.410 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can see how it would be 0:38:14.410 --> 0:38:19.660 easier at that age than if they had been ten, 12, 15, 13, 0:38:19.690 --> 0:38:20.860 you know, whatever. Yeah. 0:38:20.890 --> 0:38:23.050 Yeah, absolutely. 0:38:23.530 --> 0:38:27.850 Well, let's talk about the marriage. Maybe, maybe, first of all, 0:38:27.850 --> 0:38:32.680 words about your marriage, your time with Jason. How does 0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:36.160 all this pressure and all caring for Lucas and everything? 0:38:36.310 --> 0:38:39.550 How did that affect your marriage? And then let's talk 0:38:39.550 --> 0:38:42.520 about your your marriage with Ryan and how how this 0:38:42.520 --> 0:38:45.750 has affected the marriage and what are the challenges. 0:38:46.770 --> 0:38:50.009 I have with Jason? Like I mentioned earlier, we just 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:54.330 our whole marriage was basically living in survival mode. And 0:38:54.330 --> 0:38:59.730 that makes me sad sometimes because it just felt like 0:38:59.730 --> 0:39:02.250 we were always fighting the next battle. We both had 0:39:02.250 --> 0:39:05.549 a very deep faith and we we really enjoyed each 0:39:05.580 --> 0:39:08.580 other's company and were best friends, but it was so 0:39:08.580 --> 0:39:15.240 hard to carve out those fun times together because of 0:39:15.239 --> 0:39:18.600 all of the challenges, all of the brain surgeries, um, 0:39:18.600 --> 0:39:23.549 that felt like were occurring almost every couple of months, honestly. 0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:25.799 But I remember some of the happiest times of my 0:39:25.800 --> 0:39:29.009 life were when we were first married and we lived 0:39:29.010 --> 0:39:31.890 in a double wide and we were just making enough 0:39:31.890 --> 0:39:36.000 money to survive. And I had Caleb, and we were 0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:41.160 just blissfully unaware of what was coming around the bend 0:39:41.190 --> 0:39:44.930 for our lives together. But I'm proud of that marriage. 0:39:44.930 --> 0:39:48.469 I'm proud of how we stood firm in our faith. 0:39:48.469 --> 0:39:52.640 I'm proud of how he brought glory to God through 0:39:52.670 --> 0:39:56.690 his struggles, even up until the very end. And then, 0:39:56.719 --> 0:40:00.710 you know, marrying Ryan. We did get married very quickly, 0:40:00.710 --> 0:40:07.010 and we recognized that in that decision. We did not 0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:13.220 necessarily process and grieve the loss of our former spouses 0:40:13.219 --> 0:40:16.910 prior to coming together. And in fact, we kind of 0:40:16.940 --> 0:40:21.830 grieved and processed together, which was not necessarily the best idea. 0:40:21.830 --> 0:40:25.910 And in looking back, we should have found somebody that 0:40:25.910 --> 0:40:30.680 we could work through some of those feelings with rather 0:40:30.680 --> 0:40:32.870 than dump it all on each other, because that's a 0:40:32.870 --> 0:40:37.070 very challenging place to be like grieving the loss of 0:40:37.070 --> 0:40:41.540 one spouse and falling in love with a new spouse. It's. 0:40:41.750 --> 0:40:45.529 I can't even hardly explain it, but it's, um, just 0:40:45.530 --> 0:40:51.350 a murky, messy place at times. But we did realize 0:40:51.350 --> 0:40:54.530 early on, too, that if our marriage was going to work, 0:40:54.530 --> 0:40:57.680 we had to be really intentional about spending time together 0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:00.950 and really getting to know each other and cultivating that intimacy. 0:41:00.980 --> 0:41:04.130 And so from the very beginning, we went on a 0:41:04.130 --> 0:41:07.370 weekly date. We have been praying together every morning for 0:41:07.370 --> 0:41:10.940 14 years. Um, and we would carve out time to 0:41:10.969 --> 0:41:13.910 get away, just the two of us every year. And 0:41:13.910 --> 0:41:18.950 those were intentional choices. We have never driven fancy vehicles 0:41:18.950 --> 0:41:21.170 or gone out to eat all the time, but we 0:41:21.170 --> 0:41:24.890 do set aside money to go on those date nights 0:41:24.890 --> 0:41:27.890 and to spend that week away every year to reconnect, 0:41:27.890 --> 0:41:32.029 because we wanted to give our eight children the gift 0:41:32.030 --> 0:41:35.870 of a healthy marriage. And so that was a choice 0:41:35.870 --> 0:41:38.859 very early on that we committed to. 0:41:38.980 --> 0:41:44.020 Yeah, I was talking to a gentleman recently whose wife 0:41:44.020 --> 0:41:49.030 died and he remarried, and he was saying in our conversation, 0:41:49.030 --> 0:41:52.360 he said, you know, we each feel freedom to talk 0:41:52.360 --> 0:41:55.540 about our former spouse, you know, to to bring up things. 0:41:55.660 --> 0:41:58.990 If something happens. It reminds me of my wife, you know, 0:41:59.020 --> 0:42:01.660 she's happy for me to share that. And she does 0:42:01.660 --> 0:42:04.930 the same thing. Have you all found that to be 0:42:04.930 --> 0:42:09.460 a part of your your communication or or is that 0:42:09.460 --> 0:42:10.630 not been a part of it? 0:42:11.140 --> 0:42:15.550 Um, it's changed initially. I think there was some insecurities 0:42:15.550 --> 0:42:21.280 that came up when we would bring up the former spouses. 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:25.480 And part of that was, you know, when somebody dies, 0:42:25.480 --> 0:42:31.029 there's a sainthood aspect. And so every memory would be 0:42:31.030 --> 0:42:36.549 this beautiful memory while the two of us are Battling 0:42:36.550 --> 0:42:39.460 through this new marriage and trying to find our way. 0:42:39.460 --> 0:42:43.750 And and so there was some insecurity in the initial stages, 0:42:43.750 --> 0:42:47.080 and we've had to figure out how to walk through 0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:51.129 that gracefully with one another. 14 years later, now that 0:42:51.130 --> 0:42:55.390 we have our own shared history. We've been raising these children. 0:42:55.390 --> 0:42:59.319 We feel very firmly established in our love for one another. 0:42:59.350 --> 0:43:04.870 It's very different, and those conversations arise quite often where 0:43:04.900 --> 0:43:08.680 something will remind us of that former spouse. So I 0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:12.430 think just recognizing that sometimes it takes time to build 0:43:12.430 --> 0:43:16.060 that history together and to build that trust and that 0:43:16.060 --> 0:43:19.600 love to, because in those initial stages, you're kind of 0:43:19.630 --> 0:43:23.350 running on passion and endorphins and not so much the 0:43:23.350 --> 0:43:27.759 trust and the, the, the foundation, you know, of what 0:43:27.790 --> 0:43:31.300 truly solidifies you to each other. 0:43:31.989 --> 0:43:36.060 Takes time, takes time to build that sense of confidence 0:43:36.060 --> 0:43:38.399 with each other. And I think, I think it would 0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:40.980 be more difficult in a second marriage than it would 0:43:40.980 --> 0:43:42.899 be in a first marriage. I mean, we all have 0:43:42.900 --> 0:43:45.060 to do that in a first marriage as well, you know, 0:43:45.090 --> 0:43:47.790 because there's a whole lot we don't know about each 0:43:47.820 --> 0:43:51.209 other when we get married, and we have to work 0:43:51.210 --> 0:43:53.610 through all of that. But I think in a second 0:43:53.610 --> 0:43:56.940 marriage it would probably be even more difficult. So I'd 0:43:56.940 --> 0:43:59.730 just say a word to the caregiver who's listening, who 0:43:59.730 --> 0:44:03.780 just feels hopeless, you know? It's just too overwhelming to them. 0:44:03.780 --> 0:44:05.130 What would you say to them? 0:44:05.940 --> 0:44:10.440 I think hopelessness comes from a feeling that you're alone. 0:44:10.440 --> 0:44:14.580 And I would just say to that caregiver, you're not alone. 0:44:14.610 --> 0:44:17.850 God is right in the midst of your suffering. He's 0:44:17.850 --> 0:44:20.670 right in the midst of the mundane and the monotonous 0:44:20.670 --> 0:44:23.370 and the screaming and the diaper changes and the feeding 0:44:23.370 --> 0:44:26.760 and all of it. God is is right there, just 0:44:26.760 --> 0:44:30.330 as he was with Jesus, his son, in the Garden 0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:34.380 of Gethsemane when He begged his father in heaven, please 0:44:34.380 --> 0:44:37.620 take this cup from me. But then surrendered and said, 0:44:37.650 --> 0:44:40.739 but not my will, but yours be done. I would 0:44:40.739 --> 0:44:45.120 just encourage this individual to surrender and to recognize God 0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:48.240 is right there, and to invite him into your your 0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:51.540 struggles and allow him to strengthen you and sustain you. 0:44:52.080 --> 0:44:54.990 Well, Jess, I really appreciate you being with us today, 0:44:54.989 --> 0:44:57.600 and I think this book is going to help any 0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:00.480 caregiver out there, and we just want to help get 0:45:00.480 --> 0:45:03.960 the word out, because I think it's so important. And 0:45:03.960 --> 0:45:07.170 I think also encourage them to go to the website, 0:45:07.170 --> 0:45:10.950 your website, and Chris can share that with us again 0:45:10.950 --> 0:45:13.529 before we go off the air later. But thank you 0:45:13.530 --> 0:45:16.410 for being with us, and thank you for allowing God 0:45:16.410 --> 0:45:21.210 to use all the hard stuff in your life to 0:45:21.239 --> 0:45:24.120 bless the lives of others. So thanks for being with us. 0:45:24.150 --> 0:45:25.650 Yeah, thanks for having me. 0:45:26.340 --> 0:45:30.590 What an encouraging hour with Jess, Ronnie, Ronnie. E. And 0:45:30.590 --> 0:45:32.600 if you want to find out more about the book, 0:45:32.630 --> 0:45:36.739 go to. Building relationships. Does caregiving with grit and Grace 0:45:36.739 --> 0:45:41.480 is that title? We also mentioned the documentary unseen. You 0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:47.060 can find out more about that at caregiver, doc.com or 0:45:47.060 --> 0:45:52.129 the Lucas Project.org has some great information for you there too. 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:55.280 The Lucas Project.org. 0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:59.689 And next week how to discover the power to create 0:45:59.690 --> 0:46:02.689 a marriage. You and your spouse love here. 0:46:02.719 --> 0:46:06.290 Doctor Bob Paul's encouragement in one week. Our thanks to 0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:10.520 our production team, Steve Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:13.400 with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio 0:46:13.400 --> 0:46:17.930 in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. 0:46:17.930 --> 0:46:19.279 Thanks for listening.