1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,400 S1: In the life of this program, there is one question 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,719 S1: we have come back to over and over. For nearly 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:16,960 S1: 18 years, this question has surfaced in the conversations we've 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,560 S1: had and in the struggles of daily life, and we're 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,160 S1: coming back to it again today. And my guess is 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,200 S1: you need an answer to this question right where you live, 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,960 S1: because there is someone in your life who is forcing 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,920 S1: you to ask this question. Welcome to a Monday edition 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,120 S1: of Chris Fay. Relive the program from the heart to 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,479 S1: the heart for the heart. Today, one of my favorite 11 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,080 S1: people on the planet, Chip Ingram, is back and he's 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,800 S1: going to answer that burning question today. What is the question? 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,360 S1: Six words you're going to find out straight ahead on 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,600 S1: Chris Fabry live online. Chris favorite. Let me thank our team. 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,080 S1: Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. Tricia is on spring 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,270 S1: break with her family. So Lisa is producing and Josh 17 00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:05,030 S1: will be answering your calls and we have about a 18 00:01:05,030 --> 00:01:07,230 S1: week left in our offer this month of a resource 19 00:01:07,230 --> 00:01:09,950 S1: I really think will make a difference. But we are 20 00:01:09,950 --> 00:01:12,910 S1: short on our people goal this month. So let me 21 00:01:12,910 --> 00:01:17,149 S1: urge you go to Chris Fabry live.org or call 86695. 22 00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:20,150 S1: Fabry give a gift of any size so that we 23 00:01:20,150 --> 00:01:23,990 S1: can send you Colleen Chao's book on our way home. Colleen, 24 00:01:23,990 --> 00:01:27,190 S1: as you probably have heard, was diagnosed about four years 25 00:01:27,190 --> 00:01:30,670 S1: ago with terminal cancer. And God has given her more 26 00:01:30,709 --> 00:01:33,270 S1: days with her family, more time to put her thoughts 27 00:01:33,270 --> 00:01:36,030 S1: about heaven onto the page, that that's what this book 28 00:01:36,030 --> 00:01:38,870 S1: is about. Let me send you a copy of it, 29 00:01:38,910 --> 00:01:41,390 S1: which I know will encourage Colleen to know that her 30 00:01:41,390 --> 00:01:44,990 S1: writing has been a help to you, to listeners around 31 00:01:44,990 --> 00:01:48,510 S1: the country, and that you have supported this ministry. It 32 00:01:48,510 --> 00:01:50,430 S1: all works together. So do that today. If you can 33 00:01:50,470 --> 00:01:58,270 S1: go to Chris fabry.org or call (866) 953-2279. And thank you 34 00:01:58,380 --> 00:02:02,220 S1: for your support of the radio backyard fence. Chip Ingram 35 00:02:02,220 --> 00:02:04,780 S1: is the teaching pastor and CEO of living on the edge, 36 00:02:04,820 --> 00:02:09,220 S1: an international teaching and discipleship ministry. Pastor. For more than 37 00:02:09,220 --> 00:02:13,900 S1: 35 years, he's written so many really good books, including 38 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:18,500 S1: Holy Ambition, I choose Joy and the one we're going 39 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:21,900 S1: to talk about today, I choose love. Chip and his wife, Teresa, 40 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:25,820 S1: have four grown children, 12 grandchildren. They live in California. Chip. 41 00:02:25,860 --> 00:02:27,780 S1: Welcome back. How are you doing today, friend? 42 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:31,380 S2: You know what? I'm doing great today, Chris. How about yourself? 43 00:02:31,820 --> 00:02:34,580 S1: I am, I'm doing really. I had a good restful 44 00:02:34,580 --> 00:02:37,139 S1: weekend and I'm ready to hit the ground running with 45 00:02:37,139 --> 00:02:39,660 S1: this question. We've been asking for 18 years. Do you 46 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:40,900 S1: want me to tell you what it is? 47 00:02:41,580 --> 00:02:43,459 S2: Yes, I would, that'd be great. 48 00:02:44,419 --> 00:02:51,700 S1: The question in six words is what does love look 49 00:02:51,740 --> 00:02:56,619 S1: like here in this situation? With all my feelings, with 50 00:02:56,620 --> 00:02:59,960 S1: my marriage, with my parenting, with my church family, with 51 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:02,920 S1: the neighbors, with the wrongs I've done, with the wrongs 52 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,360 S1: done to me. With the sins I've committed. The sins 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:10,680 S1: against me. What does it look like to love right here, 54 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,160 S1: right now? And I think your book answers that question 55 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,600 S1: that we've been grappling with for a long time. 56 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,799 S2: Well, I think the apostle Paul really nails it in 57 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,360 S2: Philippians chapter two, where he gives us a model, a 58 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,919 S2: picture of what that looks like through the person of Jesus. 59 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,400 S2: And I've kind of summarized it in this way. And 60 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,600 S2: this is this isn't the touchy feely love. This is 61 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,720 S2: the kind of love that brings about transformation. And the 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,400 S2: moment I give you my definition, um, it'll be like, 63 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:46,800 S2: that's impossible. And that's correct. It is impossible in our strength. 64 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,280 S2: But love, whether it's conflict in a marriage, a wayward child, 65 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,270 S2: conflict at work, um, a big, big, big challenge in 66 00:03:56,270 --> 00:04:02,470 S2: the church. Love is giving another person what they deserve 67 00:04:02,470 --> 00:04:06,350 S2: the least when they need it the most, at great 68 00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:10,830 S2: personal cost or sacrifice. And so picture, if you will. 69 00:04:10,870 --> 00:04:14,150 S2: The applications are many, but what we need the most 70 00:04:14,150 --> 00:04:17,510 S2: forgiveness and redemption when we deserved it the least. We're 71 00:04:17,510 --> 00:04:21,230 S2: enemies of Christ. Um, and he did that at great 72 00:04:21,230 --> 00:04:25,270 S2: personal cost. He hung between heaven and earth, covered and 73 00:04:25,270 --> 00:04:28,390 S2: paid for our sins, rose from the dead, invited us 74 00:04:28,390 --> 00:04:32,710 S2: into relationship, and then infused us as the Holy Spirit 75 00:04:32,710 --> 00:04:37,270 S2: came to live within us, to manifest the presence, the personality, 76 00:04:37,270 --> 00:04:40,270 S2: and the power of Christ. And so, you know, there's 77 00:04:40,270 --> 00:04:43,990 S2: a lot to unpack there, but, uh, love never fails. 78 00:04:43,990 --> 00:04:48,589 S2: And that kind of other centered sacrificial love when God 79 00:04:48,589 --> 00:04:53,950 S2: allows us to partner with him and express that, especially 80 00:04:53,950 --> 00:04:56,580 S2: when in our hearts and minds. And maybe in reality, 81 00:04:56,580 --> 00:04:59,659 S2: they don't deserve it at all. It doesn't mean they 82 00:04:59,660 --> 00:05:03,140 S2: jump up and down and everything is solved tomorrow. But 83 00:05:03,140 --> 00:05:07,180 S2: that is the pathway for real transformation in relationships. 84 00:05:07,660 --> 00:05:09,900 S1: And that's what you're going for. This is not a 85 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:13,300 S1: life hack. This is not just a tweak where you 86 00:05:13,540 --> 00:05:15,620 S1: have a to do list, and you check off three 87 00:05:15,620 --> 00:05:18,260 S1: of the four things and you'll get to number four tomorrow. 88 00:05:18,620 --> 00:05:21,620 S1: This is you have to be changed from the inside 89 00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:23,779 S1: out in order to live this kind of way. 90 00:05:25,380 --> 00:05:29,020 S2: Absolutely. In fact, you know, this, the context of this 91 00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:32,620 S2: passage in Philippians chapter two is a lot of external pressure. 92 00:05:32,940 --> 00:05:35,380 S2: Someone in prison wondering if they're going to live or 93 00:05:35,380 --> 00:05:39,140 S2: die chained to some guards, addressing a church that he 94 00:05:39,140 --> 00:05:43,020 S2: loves that has some internal conflict as well. And he 95 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:46,460 S2: gives them this picture of have this attitude in yourselves, 96 00:05:46,460 --> 00:05:49,820 S2: which was also in Christ Jesus. And then he describes 97 00:05:49,820 --> 00:05:55,330 S2: this attitude of considering others as more important than yourself. Of. Yes, 98 00:05:55,330 --> 00:05:57,450 S2: we care about our own needs. But he goes on 99 00:05:57,490 --> 00:05:59,690 S2: to say that I want you to. Don't look out 100 00:05:59,690 --> 00:06:03,330 S2: for your own personal interests, but also the interests of others. 101 00:06:03,330 --> 00:06:08,090 S2: And it really is. It's so unnatural. Our flesh is 102 00:06:08,130 --> 00:06:11,130 S2: me first, and we can clothe it, Chris, with all 103 00:06:11,130 --> 00:06:15,810 S2: kind of sophisticated Christian jargon. But at the core of 104 00:06:15,810 --> 00:06:19,610 S2: our being, apart from Jesus power, it's. What about me? 105 00:06:19,650 --> 00:06:22,410 S2: Why didn't they do this? If they would only do that, 106 00:06:22,410 --> 00:06:27,890 S2: they hurt me when they apologize versus a yes. There's 107 00:06:27,930 --> 00:06:32,450 S2: times for boundaries. Certainly there's people that you can't associate 108 00:06:32,450 --> 00:06:35,970 S2: with because of past wounds that might be dangerous, but 109 00:06:35,970 --> 00:06:41,330 S2: the great majority, it requires a I am second mentality, 110 00:06:41,690 --> 00:06:44,850 S2: and I'm going to serve you and give and love 111 00:06:44,850 --> 00:06:49,250 S2: and affirm whether I get anything back or not. Not 112 00:06:49,250 --> 00:06:53,000 S2: because you deserve it, but because I've received that from Christ. 113 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,520 S2: And as I give that to you, that's what shatters 114 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,880 S2: the barriers between human beings. And that's what shattered the 115 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,680 S2: barrier between us and our Heavenly Father. 116 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,640 S1: That definition that you just gave. And if I wrote 117 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,080 S1: this down incorrectly, you tell me giving another person when 118 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,120 S1: they deserve it the least, what they need the most 119 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,440 S1: at great personal cost. That's what you're talking about. Um, yes, 120 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,320 S1: that sounds a lot like the definition. When we had 121 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,120 S1: Michael Card on, he wrote a book on hesed and 122 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,760 S1: that that sounds like that kind of loving kindness that 123 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,840 S1: was all throughout the Old Testament that was discussed. Is 124 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,240 S1: that close to what this kind of love is? Hesed. 125 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,520 S2: Yeah. It's really it's a covenant love. It's a, you know, 126 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,920 S2: we love is so wrapped up in emotions and feelings 127 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,510 S2: in our day. And by the way, don't get me wrong. 128 00:07:50,510 --> 00:07:53,430 S2: I'm married, I have kids, I have grandchildren, I want 129 00:07:53,430 --> 00:07:56,270 S2: a lot of love with a lot of wonderful emotions 130 00:07:56,270 --> 00:07:59,950 S2: and feelings. Um, but our emotions go up and down 131 00:07:59,950 --> 00:08:04,350 S2: with lots of different factors. But hesed. Loving kindness as 132 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:09,150 S2: it's translated often. Or steadfast, loyal love in some translations, 133 00:08:09,470 --> 00:08:12,230 S2: it really is agape love in the New Testament. It 134 00:08:12,230 --> 00:08:16,230 S2: is giving this other person what they really need right now. 135 00:08:16,990 --> 00:08:19,190 S2: They need attention. They need a word of encouragement. They 136 00:08:19,190 --> 00:08:22,230 S2: need forgiven. They need a hand not out, but a 137 00:08:22,230 --> 00:08:25,390 S2: hand up when they deserve it the least after what 138 00:08:25,390 --> 00:08:27,990 S2: they did to you. I mean, after they walked out 139 00:08:27,990 --> 00:08:30,510 S2: on you, after they treated you, after they betrayed you, 140 00:08:30,550 --> 00:08:35,190 S2: after they've been so unappreciative after all these years of parenting, etc., etc. 141 00:08:35,550 --> 00:08:38,390 S2: it's giving them what they need the most when they 142 00:08:38,390 --> 00:08:41,710 S2: deserve it the least, at great personal cost. And when 143 00:08:41,710 --> 00:08:45,550 S2: we do that, we're modeling what Jesus has done for us. 144 00:08:45,550 --> 00:08:49,290 S2: And I know you're going to emphasize this. This is 145 00:08:49,290 --> 00:08:52,130 S2: not about working up with effort to try and pull 146 00:08:52,130 --> 00:08:56,810 S2: that off. Because, you know, we've we've all sought to 147 00:08:56,850 --> 00:08:59,250 S2: do that. And when it's not reciprocated, we just get 148 00:08:59,250 --> 00:09:02,530 S2: more angry and more hurt. This has got to be like, 149 00:09:02,570 --> 00:09:04,730 S2: you know, I can't do this. They don't deserve it. 150 00:09:05,090 --> 00:09:08,410 S2: My premise on this, especially, you know, as you and 151 00:09:08,410 --> 00:09:10,850 S2: I have talked pretty, pretty honestly in the early years 152 00:09:10,850 --> 00:09:14,370 S2: of our marriage when it was not good at all. 153 00:09:14,490 --> 00:09:18,410 S2: I was so hurt and so wounded. I got to where, okay, 154 00:09:19,650 --> 00:09:22,329 S2: I can't even do this for my wife right now 155 00:09:22,370 --> 00:09:26,730 S2: because I don't want to. But since you have done 156 00:09:26,730 --> 00:09:29,770 S2: this for me as my gift back to you, Lord, 157 00:09:30,130 --> 00:09:32,490 S2: I'm going to treat her in ways that I don't 158 00:09:32,490 --> 00:09:37,250 S2: feel like treating her. I'm going to I'm going to 159 00:09:37,290 --> 00:09:39,690 S2: do some of these things that I'm learning in counseling 160 00:09:39,690 --> 00:09:41,650 S2: about what says I love you to her that make 161 00:09:41,650 --> 00:09:44,730 S2: not only not any sense to me, but I don't 162 00:09:44,730 --> 00:09:48,679 S2: want to do it. See, love is a choice And 163 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,199 S2: when you take that step, the infusion of the power 164 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,960 S2: of the Spirit of God actually will compel. It's, you know, 165 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,959 S2: it's the Old Testament picture, Chris. You know, you can 166 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,600 S2: stand on the edge of the water and hope things 167 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,360 S2: will change. It changes when you take that first step 168 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,280 S2: into the water and then the waters part. 169 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,719 S1: Bingo. Okay, there's somebody listening right now. And I'm not 170 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,480 S1: a prophet. Uh, I know this, but I'm just imagining 171 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:19,440 S1: someone listening. And there is someone in your life, and 172 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,120 S1: they are very, very hard to love. And it's exactly 173 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,439 S1: what Chip has been talking about. They've betrayed you. They've 174 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,280 S1: done something. They've said something to you, and you don't. 175 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,520 S1: You don't even want to have a relationship with them. 176 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,079 S1: You just want to avoid the whole thing. And listening 177 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,160 S1: to Chip talk right here, right now, you're wondering, well, 178 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,120 S1: if God did this for me, what do I how 179 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,760 S1: do I do? What is my response? Is there somebody 180 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,430 S1: in your life and you're asking that question, what does 181 00:10:49,429 --> 00:10:53,189 S1: love look like? Right here, right now. I want you 182 00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:54,710 S1: to call us. I want to talk. I want you 183 00:10:54,710 --> 00:11:05,470 S1: to talk with Chip. (877) 548-3675. Our number (877) 548-3675. If you 184 00:11:05,470 --> 00:11:09,790 S1: go to Chris Fabry live.org I choose love is our 185 00:11:09,790 --> 00:11:13,270 S1: featured resource. How to love your neighbor as yourself. Go 186 00:11:13,270 --> 00:11:17,110 S1: to Chris Avery live for more with Chip Ingram straight 187 00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:31,150 S1: ahead on Moody Radio. Author and speaker Chip Ingram is 188 00:11:31,150 --> 00:11:35,069 S1: our guest today. I choose love as our featured resource. 189 00:11:35,070 --> 00:11:37,589 S1: Where to go to your calls. If there's somebody in 190 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:40,910 S1: your life and you're asking the question, I do not 191 00:11:40,910 --> 00:11:44,510 S1: know what love looks like right here with this other person, 192 00:11:44,510 --> 00:11:47,660 S1: with this situation. Please help me. I want you to 193 00:11:47,660 --> 00:11:50,700 S1: talk with Chip, and there's some great information in the book. 194 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:53,300 S1: I want to go to Jesus though, because Jesus is 195 00:11:53,780 --> 00:11:57,940 S1: perfection as far as this goes. And the thing that 196 00:11:57,940 --> 00:12:00,380 S1: I've been seeing as I've been looking at, you know, 197 00:12:00,420 --> 00:12:03,980 S1: Holy Week is next week and, uh, I've gotten to 198 00:12:04,020 --> 00:12:07,300 S1: the place where, you know, Jesus prays for you and 199 00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:10,580 S1: me and he prays for his disciples, and then he 200 00:12:10,580 --> 00:12:16,660 S1: goes out to Gethsemane. And in John's Gospel, uh, Peter 201 00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:20,860 S1: unsheathes his sword. I think it was in another gospel 202 00:12:20,860 --> 00:12:25,340 S1: that they named Malchus, and he lops off his ear. 203 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:27,059 S1: And it was the first time I'd ever thought, wait 204 00:12:27,059 --> 00:12:29,660 S1: a minute. Jesus told Peter he was going to deny 205 00:12:29,660 --> 00:12:32,179 S1: him three times. He could have told him, you're going 206 00:12:32,220 --> 00:12:35,300 S1: to feel like lopping off an ear here. But he didn't. 207 00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:38,140 S1: He he let him make the mistake. And then in 208 00:12:38,140 --> 00:12:41,860 S1: John 14, you know, after I'm going to prepare a 209 00:12:41,860 --> 00:12:45,850 S1: place for you. You know where I'm. I'm going. Lord 210 00:12:45,890 --> 00:12:49,010 S1: Thomas said, we don't know where you're going. How can 211 00:12:49,010 --> 00:12:54,490 S1: we know the way? And I think, Thomas, why, you knucklehead. And. 212 00:12:54,490 --> 00:12:58,730 S1: And Jesus let's him not only lets him ask the question, 213 00:12:59,010 --> 00:13:05,929 S1: but uses that that question of Thomas to reveal something 214 00:13:05,929 --> 00:13:10,570 S1: that we today of, you know, it sinks deeply. Jesus 215 00:13:10,570 --> 00:13:13,330 S1: told him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. 216 00:13:13,330 --> 00:13:16,490 S1: No one comes to the father except through me. He 217 00:13:16,530 --> 00:13:21,370 S1: said that because Thomas made this, you know, mistake or 218 00:13:21,570 --> 00:13:24,410 S1: had this question about where we don't know where you're going. 219 00:13:24,809 --> 00:13:28,530 S1: Jesus allowed them to make mistakes. Talk about that. 220 00:13:30,370 --> 00:13:33,610 S2: Well, I think, you know, we are so often to 221 00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:37,290 S2: think of Jesus as fully God, which is completely accurate, 222 00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:41,370 S2: but we tend to forget that he's fully human. And 223 00:13:41,370 --> 00:13:44,440 S2: the fully human side means that, you know, having been 224 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,559 S2: tempted in every way, like all of us, yet without sin, 225 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,960 S2: there's a level of understanding, there's a level of patience, 226 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,520 S2: there's a level of this is going to be a process. 227 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,000 S2: And it's not that he never got frustrated, you know? Oh, 228 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,439 S2: you of little faith. I mean, what part of this 229 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,880 S2: guys are you still not getting? You're talking about bread. 230 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,000 S2: I just fed 5000 people. But I think this is 231 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,520 S2: an example of where he really is patient and he 232 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,800 S2: understands that, um, I love the, the great line in Proverbs, 233 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,520 S2: you know, it says a godly person falls seven times, 234 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,760 S2: but the Lord picks him up. There is an expectation, 235 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,760 S2: not an allowance, not an excuse that we will struggle, 236 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,600 S2: that the flesh really does wage war against the spirit, 237 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,160 S2: that things are spiritually discerned. And when we're on that journey, 238 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,280 S2: we all have blind spots. And I think what we 239 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,840 S2: see is the goal for, I think our Lord, as 240 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,460 S2: he's helping us become more like His Son. Jesus is 241 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:48,820 S2: far more about the process. The incremental, growing and getting 242 00:14:48,860 --> 00:14:52,340 S2: to know him as as it is. I want this fixed. 243 00:14:52,340 --> 00:14:54,580 S2: I want you to get it right. And okay, now 244 00:14:54,580 --> 00:14:56,740 S2: you got it right. Here's where we're going to go. 245 00:14:57,220 --> 00:15:01,140 S2: And I think that's part at least I'm going to confess, uh, 246 00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:04,380 S2: in my most challenging relationships right now, and I've got 247 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:08,180 S2: a couple of them. I just want it fixed. I 248 00:15:08,220 --> 00:15:12,300 S2: just want it fixed and I want it fixed yesterday. 249 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:15,100 S2: And I don't want to look into what part of 250 00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:20,740 S2: this is expectations that are unreasonable or thoughts and, and 251 00:15:20,740 --> 00:15:25,460 S2: blind spots that I have. And, uh, so I think 252 00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:28,500 S2: this is a good model for us, uh, loving people. 253 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:31,900 S2: You gotta, the humility of loving people is not assuming 254 00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:37,980 S2: that your perspective of the relationship is 100% right, that 255 00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:42,530 S2: there's a problem here. And our tendency is it's all 256 00:15:42,570 --> 00:15:45,210 S2: their problem and that's never the case. 257 00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:47,890 S1: And I think part of the struggle that we have 258 00:15:47,930 --> 00:15:50,890 S1: is because we think that once you become a Christian, 259 00:15:50,890 --> 00:15:55,050 S1: this ought to be easy. If you're fully following Jesus 260 00:15:55,050 --> 00:15:57,890 S1: with all your heart and you're allowing the spirit to 261 00:15:57,930 --> 00:16:02,090 S1: control you, you shouldn't come up against this kind of thing. 262 00:16:02,090 --> 00:16:06,890 S1: And that's not true. He uses, you know, the hard 263 00:16:06,890 --> 00:16:10,890 S1: things that other people do. He he also uses the 264 00:16:10,890 --> 00:16:14,810 S1: hard the way that you betray someone else for your 265 00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:17,130 S1: own good. Not to say that you go out and 266 00:16:17,130 --> 00:16:19,610 S1: betray somebody and see what he does with it. But 267 00:16:20,010 --> 00:16:21,810 S1: you're going to you're going to have to if you're 268 00:16:21,810 --> 00:16:24,130 S1: going to deal with this. What does love look like? 269 00:16:24,170 --> 00:16:25,690 S1: You're going to have to take a hard look at 270 00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:27,290 S1: your own self, right? 271 00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:31,810 S2: Yes. And I think one of the hardest things, it 272 00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:36,850 S2: keeps coming back to this humility and, uh, of owning God, 273 00:16:36,850 --> 00:16:41,360 S2: I really I mean unvarnished reveal in me what or 274 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,600 S2: any part of this. Show me my blind spots and. 275 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,320 S2: And if you get really honest and sit quietly, God 276 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,680 S2: will speak through His Spirit. He may even use a 277 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,160 S2: person that you don't want to hear something from to 278 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,840 S2: give you something really accurate. And that first moment of sting, 279 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:04,520 S2: of defensiveness tells you there's really a lack of humility here. 280 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,280 S2: And so I think that's a hard place. And I 281 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,600 S2: think what we want is I want it fixed and 282 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,959 S2: I want to stay in control. And I want to 283 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,400 S2: own the comfortable part where, yeah, of course I messed 284 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:22,040 S2: up some. That's different than, oh God, I am bankrupt. 285 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,960 S2: The very thing that absolutely makes me crazy about this 286 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,240 S2: person and has caused such anger and anguish. When I'm honest, 287 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,840 S2: I see it in my own life. Father, forgive me. 288 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,710 S2: Please give me the kind of compassion for them that 289 00:17:37,710 --> 00:17:40,710 S2: I'm asking, that I really want. I want your mercy 290 00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:44,190 S2: for me. But then I've, I've got to turn around 291 00:17:44,190 --> 00:17:47,869 S2: and say, Lord, I, I need to extend that to them. 292 00:17:47,869 --> 00:17:50,750 S2: And then the journey is I don't want to I 293 00:17:50,750 --> 00:17:52,550 S2: don't want to take them off the hook. I want 294 00:17:52,550 --> 00:17:57,510 S2: them to pay for this. This isn't fair. And I think, 295 00:17:57,550 --> 00:17:59,910 S2: could we just be honest about that? I think that 296 00:17:59,910 --> 00:18:04,230 S2: gets us way down the road. Um, I'm reminded, Chris, that, 297 00:18:05,109 --> 00:18:08,510 S2: you know, that Jesus being fully human, he's walking. He 298 00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:11,710 S2: learned obedience through the things which he suffered according to Hebrews. 299 00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:14,270 S2: And when he gets to the garden, and this is 300 00:18:14,270 --> 00:18:17,109 S2: the moment, I mean, this is I will give my life. 301 00:18:17,670 --> 00:18:22,109 S2: He in his humanness, father, if there's any other way, emotionally, oh, 302 00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:25,470 S2: the separation that's going to come, the physical pain that's 303 00:18:25,470 --> 00:18:30,350 S2: going to come all the price emotionally. It's like, I 304 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:34,909 S2: don't want to go there. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours. 305 00:18:34,910 --> 00:18:39,700 S2: So Love really boils down in many cases to. Now 306 00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:42,619 S2: that I know what the right step is and I 307 00:18:42,619 --> 00:18:45,379 S2: may not even feel like it or want to do it. 308 00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:49,980 S2: I say yes to God and Jesus did that and 309 00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:53,460 S2: it bought our salvation. When we do that, as far 310 00:18:53,460 --> 00:18:56,859 S2: as it depends on us, we have done. We have 311 00:18:56,859 --> 00:19:00,220 S2: loved the way God wants us to love. There's no 312 00:19:00,220 --> 00:19:04,859 S2: guarantee that they will respond as quickly or as fully 313 00:19:04,859 --> 00:19:08,100 S2: or completely as we want, but we can know as 314 00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:11,700 S2: far as it depends on us. Lord, I have loved 315 00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:15,860 S2: them the way you've loved me, and that's powerful. And God. 316 00:19:16,180 --> 00:19:21,660 S2: That's how strongholds and barriers come down and relationships get restored. 317 00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:26,900 S1: And that's not white knuckling it. That's not just I mean, 318 00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:30,419 S1: it is making a decision and it is you participating 319 00:19:30,420 --> 00:19:33,859 S1: with the work that God is doing in you toward 320 00:19:33,859 --> 00:19:36,610 S1: that other person. So I've got my I got a 321 00:19:36,609 --> 00:19:38,850 S1: ton of questions here. I've got a long list of 322 00:19:38,890 --> 00:19:41,250 S1: questions I could give Chip, but I want to give 323 00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:45,130 S1: you opportunity and opportunity to talk with him. And Erica 324 00:19:45,130 --> 00:19:47,369 S1: is the first one who called. Erica, why did you 325 00:19:47,410 --> 00:19:48,290 S1: call in today? 326 00:19:52,450 --> 00:19:53,090 S3: I'm here. 327 00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:55,450 S1: Yep. Why did you call Erica? 328 00:19:58,250 --> 00:20:01,250 S3: Well, I was I had just turned the radio off. 329 00:20:01,250 --> 00:20:03,810 S3: I turned the radio off because I was just tired 330 00:20:03,810 --> 00:20:07,929 S3: of noise. And when I tuned in, I heard you 331 00:20:07,930 --> 00:20:11,650 S3: say you were talking about loving. And love is a choice. 332 00:20:11,650 --> 00:20:14,250 S3: And you have to love those even when you hurt. 333 00:20:14,730 --> 00:20:17,850 S3: And I was praying to God asking him like, how 334 00:20:17,850 --> 00:20:24,050 S3: much longer? You know, like, what should I do? And 335 00:20:24,050 --> 00:20:26,810 S3: then when I heard you all, I just figured that 336 00:20:26,810 --> 00:20:31,010 S3: was my answer. So that's why I called in. 337 00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:32,530 S1: And here you are. 338 00:20:33,710 --> 00:20:34,870 S3: And here I am. 339 00:20:34,910 --> 00:20:38,550 S1: And the relationship, it's it's your marriage, right? You're you're 340 00:20:38,550 --> 00:20:39,390 S1: struggling in your marriage. 341 00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:40,070 S3: My marriage? 342 00:20:40,109 --> 00:20:40,429 S1: Yeah. 343 00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:42,230 S3: Yes. 26 years. 344 00:20:42,910 --> 00:20:47,230 S1: MM mm. Chip, what do you think? 345 00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:52,510 S2: Well, I I've been there, and, uh, and it wasn't 346 00:20:52,510 --> 00:20:55,150 S2: just like early on, you know, then we made great 347 00:20:55,150 --> 00:20:59,950 S2: progress and, you know, hit another bump probably ten years later. And, 348 00:20:59,950 --> 00:21:04,109 S2: and I think the, uh, you know, probably most of 349 00:21:04,109 --> 00:21:07,350 S2: the right answers, Erica. And, you know, you can't change 350 00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:10,350 S2: your husband. You probably got that down and you can 351 00:21:10,350 --> 00:21:13,630 S2: be really frustrated. And I think the only person you 352 00:21:13,630 --> 00:21:17,909 S2: can change is, um, whether he responds or not. Lord, 353 00:21:17,910 --> 00:21:23,510 S2: I want you to give me what I need to 354 00:21:23,550 --> 00:21:29,190 S2: treat him in a way that he understands love versus 355 00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:31,629 S2: how I want to give it to him and how 356 00:21:31,780 --> 00:21:34,740 S2: I want him to respond. Chris and I were just 357 00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:38,780 S2: talking a couple of days ago with, um, Gary Chapman 358 00:21:38,780 --> 00:21:41,179 S2: and the five love languages. And I know one of 359 00:21:41,180 --> 00:21:43,820 S2: the big breakthroughs for us was not only were there 360 00:21:43,820 --> 00:21:46,859 S2: issues and problems and not on the same page, but 361 00:21:46,859 --> 00:21:51,100 S2: we could not communicate in ways that connected. And, you know, 362 00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:55,100 S2: I don't know your situation, but I do know forgiving 363 00:21:55,619 --> 00:21:59,460 S2: and then taking steps toward, um, what it looks like 364 00:21:59,460 --> 00:22:01,180 S2: to love in a way that makes sense to your 365 00:22:01,180 --> 00:22:04,899 S2: husband doesn't mean there still aren't boundaries and there's different 366 00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:07,980 S2: things that he needs to own, but I think it's 367 00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:12,020 S2: easy after 26 years and it really hurts. It's easy 368 00:22:12,020 --> 00:22:14,740 S2: to give up inside, you know, and this kind of 369 00:22:14,780 --> 00:22:17,140 S2: go through the motions and live in these in these 370 00:22:17,140 --> 00:22:22,139 S2: parallel lanes. And this may be too elementary, but I'm 371 00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:24,659 S2: a big believer that, you know, if you work at 372 00:22:24,660 --> 00:22:28,220 S2: a relationship and you keep getting stuck, um, you know, 373 00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:30,889 S2: it's time to get some outside help and that outside 374 00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:34,570 S2: help can be a great, godly, discerning pastor or a 375 00:22:34,570 --> 00:22:39,250 S2: really godly, biblical, you know, Christian therapist who can kind 376 00:22:39,290 --> 00:22:42,930 S2: of help you see things together or even separate if 377 00:22:42,930 --> 00:22:46,810 S2: the other person's not willing. So thanks for calling. The 378 00:22:46,810 --> 00:22:50,850 S2: fact that you want that I want to love, I 379 00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:53,409 S2: want to figure out how to love my husband. I 380 00:22:53,410 --> 00:22:56,850 S2: don't want this to stay the same. Erica, you are 381 00:22:56,850 --> 00:23:00,810 S2: on the right track. That's a very, very important and 382 00:23:00,810 --> 00:23:01,570 S2: good thing. 383 00:23:01,810 --> 00:23:03,970 S1: The other thing I sense from you, Erica, is that 384 00:23:03,970 --> 00:23:06,690 S1: your heart is even in, you know, with the noise. 385 00:23:06,690 --> 00:23:08,250 S1: You said you turned it off and you turn it 386 00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:13,530 S1: back on. Your heart is open and soft toward your husband. 387 00:23:13,570 --> 00:23:17,570 S1: Even though you're going through conflict, you really do want 388 00:23:17,609 --> 00:23:20,690 S1: to show love to him. You just don't know how 389 00:23:20,690 --> 00:23:24,010 S1: to get from where you are to that place. Is 390 00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:27,090 S1: that fair to say that? 391 00:23:27,090 --> 00:23:34,920 S3: That is fair to say because. I. I'm concerned about 392 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,359 S3: feeling rejected. Yeah. 393 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,120 S1: So that's your fear that you will love well and 394 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,639 S1: that you will express love. And then he's going to 395 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,040 S1: shut down, shut you down, reject you. Um, not not 396 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,080 S1: not even listen to what you have to say. 397 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:54,440 S3: Yes. 398 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,040 S1: And that's a real possibility, isn't it, chip? 399 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:04,119 S2: Yeah. I think, uh, any time we risk loving, you know, the, 400 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,400 S2: the wonderful thing is there's huge opportunity on the other 401 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,400 S2: side of it. The, the scary part is if it's 402 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,560 S2: not received or if it's rejected. And this not to 403 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,160 S2: get super tactical, but we got to the point where 404 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,480 S2: we couldn't say anything that didn't start an argument when 405 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,000 S2: you brought up certain topics and, and one of the 406 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,390 S2: little tools that we learned was what we call an 407 00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:31,510 S2: I feel message. You know, I feel hurt or I 408 00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:35,669 S2: feel discouraged or I feel misunderstood is a really different 409 00:24:35,670 --> 00:24:38,670 S2: message than you won't listen to me and you won't 410 00:24:38,670 --> 00:24:41,750 S2: go to counseling. And every time we talk about money, 411 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:45,149 S2: you blow up and I would talk the. You ought. 412 00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:49,429 S2: You should. Our messages that parents send to their kids, 413 00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:52,390 S2: and especially as a man, they tend to get very defensive. 414 00:24:52,550 --> 00:24:55,150 S2: At least I did. And most men I know. And 415 00:24:55,150 --> 00:24:57,949 S2: there's something about a tenderness, you know. A gentle answer 416 00:24:57,950 --> 00:25:00,510 S2: turns away wrath where, you know, could we sit and 417 00:25:00,510 --> 00:25:02,469 S2: talk and find a really good time? And, you know, 418 00:25:02,510 --> 00:25:05,350 S2: I love you very, very much. And it's obvious we're 419 00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:07,710 S2: not on the same page. And I just want you 420 00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:11,150 S2: to know, I feel I want to be close to you, 421 00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:15,150 S2: but when this happens or what, I don't know what 422 00:25:15,150 --> 00:25:18,550 S2: your issues are. Uh, when you respond in this way, 423 00:25:18,910 --> 00:25:21,869 S2: it makes me want to withdraw, but I don't want to. 424 00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:26,740 S2: I feel I feel hurt or I feel like you 425 00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:30,740 S2: don't care about me. And people can't deny your feelings, Erica. 426 00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:33,420 S2: And that's a tender way to get some things on 427 00:25:33,420 --> 00:25:34,100 S2: the table. 428 00:25:34,780 --> 00:25:37,260 S1: I want you to hang on, Erica. Lisa will get 429 00:25:37,260 --> 00:25:41,180 S1: your information, and we'll send you a copy of Chip's book. 430 00:25:41,260 --> 00:25:43,060 S1: So stay right where you are. If you go to 431 00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:46,380 S1: Chris Fabry live.org, you'll see that new book, I Choose 432 00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:50,380 S1: Love How to Love Your Neighbor as Yourself. More of 433 00:25:50,380 --> 00:25:54,179 S1: your calls and questions for Chip straight ahead on Moody Radio. 434 00:26:05,780 --> 00:26:07,820 S1: It is a great question. What does love look like 435 00:26:07,820 --> 00:26:10,540 S1: right here, right now, in my marriage and my parenting 436 00:26:10,540 --> 00:26:13,980 S1: and my friendships and my church and my work? Oh, 437 00:26:14,020 --> 00:26:16,460 S1: do you have something going on at work with somebody 438 00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:18,980 S1: and they just rub you the wrong way and you say, 439 00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:21,139 S1: I'm just going to stay out of their way. I 440 00:26:21,140 --> 00:26:26,399 S1: don't want is there a way to. do what God 441 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,640 S1: has done for you to that other person. And so 442 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,400 S1: Chip Ingram has written this book, I Choose Love How 443 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,880 S1: to Love Your Neighbor as Yourself. How in the world 444 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,000 S1: do you do that, especially when you don't feel it? 445 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,320 S1: Because I think most people think I need I can't 446 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,800 S1: love unless I feel love. I can't express love to 447 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,040 S1: somebody else unless I feel love. Can you address that 448 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,520 S1: real quickly before we go back to the phones, chip? 449 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,600 S2: Yeah, I think sometimes we feel like we're a hypocrite. 450 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,280 S2: You know, I don't I don't want to do a 451 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,280 S2: kind thing when I don't feel it in my heart. Premise. 452 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,199 S2: My heart is determining. And my feelings are the authoritative 453 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,200 S2: reality of life. And the fact of the matter is 454 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,560 S2: their chemical responses in our brain toward different events and responses. 455 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,200 S2: Our mind has the power to say, if I choose 456 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,240 S2: to speak, to be kind, to be loving, as Jesus 457 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,669 S2: did when he didn't feel like it. It really is. 458 00:27:24,670 --> 00:27:28,830 S2: Maybe you're never more loving than when you do something 459 00:27:28,830 --> 00:27:31,470 S2: for someone when you don't feel like it, because it's 460 00:27:31,470 --> 00:27:35,709 S2: it's choosing something that's very countercultural to your emotions and 461 00:27:35,710 --> 00:27:38,350 S2: your desires. And I think that's at the heart of 462 00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:41,750 S2: what real love is. Love is a choice, and you 463 00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:45,430 S2: need God's power to make that choice. But it's overcoming 464 00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:49,230 S2: the feelings and the emotions that all that baggage of 465 00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:53,590 S2: hurt makes us. Candidly, we don't even want to try. Yeah. 466 00:27:54,670 --> 00:27:58,430 S1: Uh, caller, my sister is hard to love. We had 467 00:27:58,430 --> 00:28:01,670 S1: a lifetime. We have had a lifetime of ups and downs. 468 00:28:01,869 --> 00:28:05,109 S1: How can I love her better? There's not a lot 469 00:28:05,150 --> 00:28:07,949 S1: of specifics in there, Chip, but you can kind of 470 00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:09,950 S1: read between the lines. What would you say? 471 00:28:11,310 --> 00:28:13,990 S2: You know, if I was in a counseling session with 472 00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:16,270 S2: this person or it could be a brother or others? 473 00:28:16,670 --> 00:28:20,310 S2: I would literally listen very, very carefully. And then I 474 00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:22,740 S2: would say, and maybe you're already doing this. Number one, 475 00:28:22,740 --> 00:28:25,100 S2: I would encourage you to really begin to pray for 476 00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:28,100 S2: them daily. I mean, each and every day, Lord, I 477 00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:31,500 S2: pray you reveal yourself. Lord, would you bless their marriage 478 00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:34,420 S2: if they're married or their singleness? And but you actually 479 00:28:34,420 --> 00:28:37,379 S2: pray for them. The second, and this is really hard 480 00:28:37,380 --> 00:28:40,780 S2: is that we tend when there's a problem, we, we 481 00:28:40,780 --> 00:28:43,580 S2: have a negative narrative. You know, when they come to 482 00:28:43,620 --> 00:28:46,500 S2: our mind, we think of where we haven't connected and 483 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:49,700 S2: what happened in the past. If you to think about 484 00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:53,180 S2: what are some positive things about my sister, you know, 485 00:28:53,220 --> 00:28:56,300 S2: what are some positive things? And begin your get your 486 00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:59,580 S2: mind to change that narrative and the way you reinforce 487 00:28:59,580 --> 00:29:01,820 S2: that is, Lord, I want to thank you that, you know, 488 00:29:01,860 --> 00:29:04,060 S2: when I was 13, she really helped me in school. 489 00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:06,900 S2: I want to thank you that regardless of all the 490 00:29:06,940 --> 00:29:11,220 S2: ups and downs, I thank you that she's this beginning 491 00:29:11,260 --> 00:29:15,220 S2: to thank God for characteristics of a person. It begins 492 00:29:15,220 --> 00:29:19,220 S2: to change your brain, literally, and how you view them. 493 00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:22,090 S2: And then I think there's something where you say, Lord, 494 00:29:22,290 --> 00:29:26,650 S2: I'm sure there's my part. But what? What has she 495 00:29:26,650 --> 00:29:32,410 S2: been through? What difficulty, what pain, what hurts, what might 496 00:29:32,410 --> 00:29:36,810 S2: be behind, how insensitive she seems to be. Or she 497 00:29:36,810 --> 00:29:40,090 S2: doesn't respond to my calls, or she seems to be 498 00:29:40,090 --> 00:29:43,330 S2: negative toward anything that I. You know, we all have those. 499 00:29:43,570 --> 00:29:46,570 S2: What what could be behind that? And then the last 500 00:29:46,570 --> 00:29:49,650 S2: thing I would just say is if you can sit 501 00:29:49,650 --> 00:29:51,650 S2: in that, if you will, and say, Lord, would you 502 00:29:51,650 --> 00:29:55,810 S2: give me empathy? There's something about what would I be 503 00:29:55,810 --> 00:29:58,890 S2: like if I had been through that? Not excusing it, 504 00:29:58,890 --> 00:30:01,690 S2: not saying that it's all your fault in any way, 505 00:30:02,130 --> 00:30:04,650 S2: but you start to pray and you give thanks for 506 00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:08,370 S2: someone and you begin to reshape. What are the positive things? 507 00:30:08,370 --> 00:30:13,730 S2: We all have some positive things. And then what? What 508 00:30:13,730 --> 00:30:19,410 S2: what could be causing this harshness or insensitivity or just 509 00:30:19,410 --> 00:30:22,280 S2: the way she treats me. What might be behind that? 510 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,880 S2: And I think you'll find that that will at least 511 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,960 S2: it may not change her. But those are the ways 512 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,120 S2: that you can break down the walls. And God can 513 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,640 S2: work in your own heart. And once you are changed, 514 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,480 S2: it's really amazing. Every relationship is a system, and you'll 515 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,920 S2: find your tone of voice and your kindness and how 516 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,960 S2: you respond will be quite different if you do those 517 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,719 S2: things for a few weeks. 518 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:52,000 S1: What you just described happened to me for 40 years. 519 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,960 S1: I had this family member and I had a question 520 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,880 S1: about why didn't why haven't, why didn't this ever, you know, 521 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,360 S1: fill in the blank for 40 years? It was like, 522 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,920 S1: you know, there must be some reason, but boy, I 523 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,880 S1: sure don't understand it. And then the, you know, bitterness 524 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,640 S1: and everything, but I never broached the issue. I never 525 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,600 S1: brought the topic up until a few years ago. And 526 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,070 S1: I found out why The question that I had, why 527 00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:23,150 S1: it happened and it made every bit of sense in 528 00:31:23,150 --> 00:31:26,030 S1: the world. And it had an awful lot of pain 529 00:31:26,030 --> 00:31:28,950 S1: on the other side of it. Pain on that family 530 00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:33,390 S1: member's side that I had no idea. I had no idea. 531 00:31:33,870 --> 00:31:36,150 S1: And now I look back on it and I think, 532 00:31:36,430 --> 00:31:39,630 S1: I'm so glad I was patient enough not to fly 533 00:31:39,630 --> 00:31:42,190 S1: off the handle. And you know, you jerk, why don't 534 00:31:42,190 --> 00:31:45,350 S1: you know that kind of thing? And to. And because 535 00:31:46,110 --> 00:31:50,070 S1: usually there is pain that's going on. Yes. Let me 536 00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:53,870 S1: let you hear from a voicemail we just got. 537 00:31:54,190 --> 00:31:58,709 S4: Hi, this is Theresa calling from Minnesota. And I'm having 538 00:31:58,710 --> 00:32:03,110 S4: a very hard time. We are raising our four grandchildren 539 00:32:03,550 --> 00:32:09,350 S4: and the second oldest is so boisterous. She could be 540 00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:12,950 S4: so mean with her words. And we are struggling, trying 541 00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:16,950 S4: to figure out how to show her that we love her. 542 00:32:18,130 --> 00:32:21,370 S4: They've been in such horrific paths. 543 00:32:22,090 --> 00:32:27,370 S1: MM. Bingo. Right there. She. She answered her own question. 544 00:32:27,410 --> 00:32:31,530 S1: They've been through horrific past. And that's why, you know, 545 00:32:31,570 --> 00:32:34,570 S1: some of this boisterous behavior. In a sense, you could 546 00:32:34,570 --> 00:32:37,610 S1: just thank God for the boisterous ism or whatever that 547 00:32:37,610 --> 00:32:41,810 S1: word is. You know, there's life there, but it's really hard. 548 00:32:41,930 --> 00:32:43,969 S1: So what do you say to grandma or grandpa? 549 00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:49,730 S2: Well, you have inherited a very, very challenging situation. And 550 00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:53,570 S2: there's deep fears, there's deep insecurities. That's why kids act 551 00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:55,690 S2: out at least some of the reasons, along with the 552 00:32:55,690 --> 00:32:58,730 S2: rebellious heart that we all have. And in those kind 553 00:32:58,770 --> 00:33:02,770 S2: of situations, especially if they the way you keep people 554 00:33:02,770 --> 00:33:07,090 S2: at a safe space is there's only two options. You withdraw, 555 00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:10,530 S2: don't say anything, don't connect with people, and you become 556 00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:14,570 S2: this ultra super shy person will. You're safe. The other 557 00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:18,200 S2: is to act out, be boisterous, keep doing things that 558 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,560 S2: keep people either mad at you or disciplining you. But 559 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,760 S2: what it does is it creates the same thing, this 560 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,440 S2: safe space, and it's setting clear boundaries. No matter what 561 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,240 S2: you do, I'm not going to stop loving you, but 562 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,960 S2: you can't have your own way and treat other people 563 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:39,080 S2: in our house. And it is that long road persevering 564 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,440 S2: down that path. I had one of my four children, uh, 565 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,600 S2: that I was on this journey for about three and 566 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,600 S2: a half or four years, and it was painful. And 567 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,120 S2: I just wondered if we would ever turn the corner. 568 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,280 S2: And by God's grace, we did. And you know, the 569 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,560 S2: thing is, you learn a lot about yourself as well. 570 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,480 S2: So it wasn't it wasn't all one of my children. 571 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,400 S2: It was certainly me as well. But I do think 572 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,800 S2: what Chris shared, I think it's empathy, not an excuse. 573 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,920 S2: But when people have been through a lot and you 574 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,839 S2: may need, you just really may need to get some 575 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,230 S2: outside help and I'm guessing, um, Um, boy, some support 576 00:34:15,230 --> 00:34:18,950 S2: from your church, your small group and just accept this 577 00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:24,470 S2: is a very challenging, focused time. And I would just say, 578 00:34:24,469 --> 00:34:27,270 S2: don't take your eye off the other three. One of 579 00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:30,270 S2: the greatest dangers when you have a real problem is 580 00:34:30,270 --> 00:34:34,430 S2: that pretty soon the whole world is about solving that. 581 00:34:34,630 --> 00:34:37,190 S2: And there's three people that are, you know, need love 582 00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:40,430 S2: as well. And one of the things I remember sharing was, 583 00:34:40,469 --> 00:34:44,230 S2: we're not going to allow your behavior and your issues 584 00:34:44,469 --> 00:34:48,390 S2: to damage our whole family. So that behavior, rather than 585 00:34:48,430 --> 00:34:51,830 S2: back and forth, that behavior, here's the consequence, this behavior, 586 00:34:51,830 --> 00:34:54,710 S2: that's a consequence. If they're old enough, I had them 587 00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:58,990 S2: actually write it out. You helped me. Um, I know 588 00:35:00,070 --> 00:35:03,469 S2: you know what you, you decide if this behavior, you know, 589 00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:06,189 S2: you talk bad or hurt one of your brothers and 590 00:35:06,190 --> 00:35:09,790 S2: sisters or your. Well, then what would be the consequence? 591 00:35:09,790 --> 00:35:11,910 S2: And we wrote up a little contract. I said, I'm 592 00:35:11,910 --> 00:35:14,260 S2: not going to fight with you all the time. When 593 00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:18,020 S2: that behavior A happens, this consequence a we're going to 594 00:35:18,020 --> 00:35:20,580 S2: put into place, we're going to do it calmly. And 595 00:35:20,580 --> 00:35:24,859 S2: it was a long, hard journey. And, uh, in our case, 596 00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:29,100 S2: God really got through and, and worked in a fabulous way. But, 597 00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:31,580 S2: but part of it is it's going to be really hard. 598 00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:35,980 S2: You've inherited a tough, tough situation. 599 00:35:36,140 --> 00:35:38,859 S1: And the other thing is that you can start saying, 600 00:35:39,420 --> 00:35:42,060 S1: I shouldn't be going through this. I, we, we, we 601 00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:44,540 S1: paid our dues. We were parents, you know, we, we're 602 00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:47,380 S1: parents again, we, we shouldn't have to be going through this. 603 00:35:47,420 --> 00:35:50,700 S1: And it's like, well, you're right, this is not the 604 00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:53,540 S1: way it was intended to be, but you got to 605 00:35:53,540 --> 00:35:57,020 S1: be where you are, right. And, and what an opportunity 606 00:35:57,060 --> 00:36:01,860 S1: you have to speak into the lives of those grandkids. Yeah. 607 00:36:02,219 --> 00:36:04,100 S1: Let me leave that right there and go to George 608 00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:06,700 S1: before we take a break. George, why did you call today? 609 00:36:07,820 --> 00:36:15,650 S5: Um, my father, He's a Greek Orthodox icebox, you know. 610 00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:21,410 S5: He's also a Holocaust survivor. His mother was Jewish. And 611 00:36:22,250 --> 00:36:25,250 S5: no matter what I do, no matter what I say, 612 00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:31,529 S5: he always stirs up derision. You know, I got to 613 00:36:31,570 --> 00:36:36,569 S5: the point of where I recited the 109th Psalm on him, 614 00:36:36,570 --> 00:36:40,610 S5: because I just came at my end of my rope, 615 00:36:40,810 --> 00:36:43,569 S5: and now he's ill and I have to take care 616 00:36:43,570 --> 00:36:44,250 S5: of him. 617 00:36:44,810 --> 00:36:45,210 S2: HMM. 618 00:36:46,130 --> 00:36:48,049 S1: Is he in your house? Do you take care of 619 00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:49,850 S1: him there or someplace else? 620 00:36:50,570 --> 00:36:55,290 S5: No. We live together. I'm disabled. But you know, he 621 00:36:55,290 --> 00:37:00,370 S5: brought my brother to suicide. He. He made my mother 622 00:37:00,410 --> 00:37:04,330 S5: die of heart failure because she was having a relationship 623 00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:08,290 S5: in the end, and he wasn't. And now he's working 624 00:37:08,290 --> 00:37:08,890 S5: at me. 625 00:37:09,850 --> 00:37:10,210 S2: MM. 626 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:11,960 S5: And I don't know what to do. 627 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:18,040 S1: It almost sounds like you are struggling to get breath. 628 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,520 S1: You know, you're in the situation that you're in. You're 629 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,720 S1: being held under the water and you are just trying 630 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,160 S1: to breathe. So, George, I'm really glad that you've called today. 631 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,440 S1: We'll take a quick break. We'll come back. Chip Ingram 632 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,879 S1: is with us. Our featured resource is I Choose Love 633 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,840 S1: by Chip. Just go to Chris farrell.org. Click through today's information. 634 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,360 S1: You'll see it right there. Chris Fabry live dot more 635 00:37:46,360 --> 00:38:02,160 S1: straight ahead on Moody Radio. Our remaining moments with Chip 636 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,280 S1: Ingram today at the radio backyard fence. I choose love 637 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,670 S1: is our featured resource at Chris resource@kris.org. And I'm so 638 00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:14,910 S1: grateful for those friends and partners who have given us 639 00:38:14,910 --> 00:38:18,830 S1: the ability to come to you with a topic like this. 640 00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:21,750 S1: And we're here in George, just kind of pour out 641 00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:26,190 S1: his heart about his dad and the ice box as 642 00:38:26,190 --> 00:38:29,750 S1: he called. You know, it's just this closed system, and 643 00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:33,750 S1: the only thing that he hears from him is negativity. And, 644 00:38:34,469 --> 00:38:36,350 S1: you know, George is doing the best he can to 645 00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:38,950 S1: care for his dad and to love his dad. And 646 00:38:39,310 --> 00:38:42,510 S1: all of this that has happened. So, Chip, you cannot 647 00:38:42,510 --> 00:38:44,590 S1: solve this in five minutes or less. 648 00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:46,750 S2: But I don't think I can solve it in five 649 00:38:46,750 --> 00:38:50,510 S2: years or less, to be very honest. Yeah. But I 650 00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:53,350 S2: do think there there's a couple things we heard. And 651 00:38:53,350 --> 00:38:56,430 S2: I would, I would say to George, and this is 652 00:38:56,430 --> 00:38:59,310 S2: this is very, very hard, but when you bring up, 653 00:38:59,590 --> 00:39:02,989 S2: you know, the he calls my brother to commit suicide. 654 00:39:02,989 --> 00:39:05,950 S2: He calls my mother to die. I mean, those are 655 00:39:07,530 --> 00:39:13,290 S2: Those are such painful, strong, um, and I don't know 656 00:39:13,290 --> 00:39:16,010 S2: the background and he may have been the primary cause 657 00:39:16,010 --> 00:39:20,489 S2: to those things, which leaves you to either you're a 658 00:39:20,489 --> 00:39:22,650 S2: victim of living with him and he's going to destroy 659 00:39:22,650 --> 00:39:27,210 S2: your life too, or to stop it by saying, um, 660 00:39:28,130 --> 00:39:31,810 S2: I'm actually going to forgive him. I'm actually going to 661 00:39:31,810 --> 00:39:34,090 S2: do what Jesus did for me. I'm going to willfully 662 00:39:34,090 --> 00:39:37,690 S2: choose to forgive him for those things. I'm going to 663 00:39:37,690 --> 00:39:41,330 S2: start praying God will bless him. And then there's a 664 00:39:41,370 --> 00:39:44,770 S2: you know, that sounds like the real soft side. Otherwise, 665 00:39:44,770 --> 00:39:48,689 S2: the continue blaming. It'll eat you up. George. We've all 666 00:39:48,690 --> 00:39:52,290 S2: done this, but. But grabbing a hold and saying, when 667 00:39:52,290 --> 00:39:54,969 S2: I choose love means you have agency. You're not a 668 00:39:54,969 --> 00:39:58,930 S2: victim here. You. And sometimes you need to pause and 669 00:39:58,930 --> 00:40:01,290 S2: set some some boundaries. It sounds like it would be 670 00:40:01,530 --> 00:40:04,450 S2: very difficult. I don't know your disability. And he's very, 671 00:40:04,450 --> 00:40:08,640 S2: very old. Um. I got into a situation with a 672 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:16,000 S2: family member. Teresa's dad had some really challenging issues, and he, uh, 673 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,279 S2: was in a very abusive father in many, many ways. 674 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,360 S2: And he would come to our house and treat my 675 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,440 S2: wife so terribly. She'd be depressed for 2 or 3 676 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,200 S2: weeks and said things. And, you know, I, uh, George, 677 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,319 S2: all I can tell you was, you know, I felt like, 678 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,640 S2: what do we do? And I remember we went to 679 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,719 S2: the grocery store and, you know, God just gave me 680 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,960 S2: this moment. And we pulled in front of the car. 681 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,880 S2: He started to get out. I said, Fred, don't get 682 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,000 S2: out of the car. And he said, why? I said, 683 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,719 S2: I have something to say. I said, Fred, we're going 684 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,440 S2: to go inside our house. And your daughter's a wonderful person. 685 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,920 S2: She's a wonderful mother and she's a great life wife. 686 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,800 S2: And what I want you to know, if you say 687 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,839 S2: one critical thing to my wife, if you put her 688 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,350 S2: down and continue what you're doing, make sure your suitcase 689 00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:09,469 S2: is packed. Because the moment I hear it, I'm going 690 00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:12,390 S2: to go into your room. I'm going to get your suitcase, 691 00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:14,630 S2: and I'll be taking you back to the airport. And 692 00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:17,630 S2: you can fly back to West Virginia. I will not 693 00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:22,310 S2: allow you to treat my wife in that way. And 694 00:41:22,310 --> 00:41:23,950 S2: I mean, he was a guy that was could be 695 00:41:23,950 --> 00:41:27,549 S2: kind of violent and really kind of crazy. And he 696 00:41:27,550 --> 00:41:31,390 S2: was very, very quiet. To my shock, for the next 697 00:41:31,390 --> 00:41:35,629 S2: 3 or 4 days, he did not criticize my wife once. Uh, 698 00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:40,230 S2: he disliked me very, very much. He decided not to 699 00:41:40,270 --> 00:41:42,509 S2: talk to us, and I thought, we'll never hear from 700 00:41:42,510 --> 00:41:45,910 S2: him again. And it was about 4 or 5 months later. 701 00:41:45,950 --> 00:41:48,549 S2: I mean, it's not like it was easy. And they 702 00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:50,669 S2: they call and they acted like, you know, it was 703 00:41:51,110 --> 00:41:54,910 S2: it was that generation. Uh, they acted like nothing ever happened. 704 00:41:55,150 --> 00:41:58,750 S2: And that relationship changed. And I don't know what setting 705 00:41:58,750 --> 00:42:02,549 S2: that kind of boundary is, but dad, uh, if, if 706 00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:04,819 S2: you want to talk that way? You're going to be 707 00:42:04,820 --> 00:42:08,500 S2: in this room by yourself. I refuse to communicate. If 708 00:42:08,540 --> 00:42:11,299 S2: you have those words and talk to me that way, 709 00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:14,260 S2: I just won't tolerate that. So be in the other room. 710 00:42:14,260 --> 00:42:17,180 S2: And I don't know your situation. Here's your food. You 711 00:42:17,180 --> 00:42:23,460 S2: can eat alone, but I'm refusing to participate in you deciding, uh, 712 00:42:23,580 --> 00:42:26,380 S2: and making other people feel the way you've made them feel. 713 00:42:26,580 --> 00:42:30,379 S2: I'm breaking that chain right now. Crisis tends to be 714 00:42:30,380 --> 00:42:32,980 S2: the only way some people that are stuck in an 715 00:42:32,980 --> 00:42:38,819 S2: ice box ever thaw. And I think it's a $25,000 issue. 716 00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:41,540 S2: And I've given you a 25 cent answer because I 717 00:42:41,540 --> 00:42:46,220 S2: don't know the context, but I would just say, um, 718 00:42:47,100 --> 00:42:50,379 S2: you have the power of Christ. Don't be a victim. 719 00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:53,739 S2: Have agency. Choose to do things you don't feel like 720 00:42:53,739 --> 00:42:57,060 S2: doing and choose to set up some barriers to say, 721 00:42:57,420 --> 00:43:00,700 S2: I refuse. You are a child of God. You're made 722 00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:03,610 S2: in the image of God and you don't allow people 723 00:43:03,610 --> 00:43:06,649 S2: to speak to you or treat you in ways that 724 00:43:06,650 --> 00:43:07,610 S2: violate that. 725 00:43:08,570 --> 00:43:11,129 S1: And he's already doing the loving thing to take care 726 00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:14,890 S1: of his father. He's, he's expressing love. He's choosing love. 727 00:43:14,930 --> 00:43:15,970 S2: He sure is. 728 00:43:16,170 --> 00:43:19,489 S1: But but that forgiveness quotient. I mean, we should do 729 00:43:19,489 --> 00:43:21,689 S1: a whole program just on that what that looks like. 730 00:43:21,690 --> 00:43:23,730 S1: But I want you to let's just stop right here, 731 00:43:23,730 --> 00:43:27,490 S1: because my guess is there's somebody else that's in George's situation. 732 00:43:27,489 --> 00:43:31,010 S1: Not exactly the same, but they're having a hard time 733 00:43:31,010 --> 00:43:33,810 S1: because of that other person. And that story that you 734 00:43:33,810 --> 00:43:37,650 S1: just told is striking deep. Would you pray for George 735 00:43:37,650 --> 00:43:39,810 S1: and anybody else who's going through that now? 736 00:43:40,370 --> 00:43:46,569 S2: Oh, Lord. It feels so hopeless and so stuck, and 737 00:43:46,570 --> 00:43:49,770 S2: you feel so far away in these kind of situations. 738 00:43:51,250 --> 00:43:57,569 S2: We ask you. Our father in in the name and 739 00:43:57,570 --> 00:44:02,149 S2: the power of Jesus. Would you give George Perspective and 740 00:44:02,150 --> 00:44:06,830 S2: grace and overwhelm him and others who feel completely stuck, 741 00:44:07,230 --> 00:44:09,630 S2: who feel like a victim, who feel like no matter 742 00:44:09,630 --> 00:44:13,149 S2: what they've done, it never works. It's just more of 743 00:44:13,150 --> 00:44:16,870 S2: the same, more of the same. Would you grant them 744 00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:20,790 S2: to grace, to extend mercy and forgiveness, to begin to 745 00:44:20,830 --> 00:44:25,230 S2: pray for this person, and then with your wisdom to 746 00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:30,670 S2: set up some boundaries, some consequences, to be strong, to 747 00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:34,630 S2: be kind, to be calm, but to refuse to banter, 748 00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:38,950 S2: refuse to get upset and go through all the cycles 749 00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:44,030 S2: that happen over and over and over again. Holy father, 750 00:44:44,030 --> 00:44:48,190 S2: would you cause there to be a breakthrough in the 751 00:44:48,190 --> 00:44:51,870 S2: hearts and in the minds of the Georges that are 752 00:44:51,870 --> 00:44:55,070 S2: going through things right now? And Lord, I pray specifically 753 00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:58,790 S2: that you by your spirit, would speak right through the 754 00:44:58,790 --> 00:45:03,020 S2: ice box of George's dad's heart, and you would melt it, 755 00:45:03,260 --> 00:45:06,980 S2: and he'd be aware of your love for him, and 756 00:45:06,980 --> 00:45:10,700 S2: also aware of how his Son is loving him right now. 757 00:45:10,940 --> 00:45:12,020 S2: In Jesus name. 758 00:45:13,820 --> 00:45:18,700 S1: Amen. Chip and George, hang on, we're going to get 759 00:45:18,780 --> 00:45:22,819 S1: Lisa's going to get some information from you. Um, we 760 00:45:22,860 --> 00:45:25,980 S1: never know when we start the program, start an hour, 761 00:45:26,020 --> 00:45:29,420 S1: what's going to happen? But it just seems like there's 762 00:45:29,420 --> 00:45:33,300 S1: some real deep water here. And the. And the crazy 763 00:45:33,300 --> 00:45:38,660 S1: little thing is that God can use situations like this. 764 00:45:38,660 --> 00:45:43,060 S1: He can use well, he used the cross, you know, he, 765 00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:47,700 S1: he uses this painful stuff to draw us closer to 766 00:45:47,739 --> 00:45:50,820 S1: him to help us grow in him. And then see, 767 00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:54,660 S1: this is what love really does look like. And that 768 00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:56,500 S1: was one of the questions I had for you. Do 769 00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:59,210 S1: I have to let people walk all over me. Then 770 00:45:59,210 --> 00:46:02,170 S1: from now on, I've got to. No, no, that's not 771 00:46:02,170 --> 00:46:05,170 S1: what it means. And it's all laid out in the 772 00:46:05,170 --> 00:46:08,529 S1: book I choose love. I feel like I haven't done 773 00:46:08,530 --> 00:46:11,330 S1: a very good job with the content of the book, Chip, 774 00:46:11,330 --> 00:46:14,290 S1: but you've done a really good job of living it out, 775 00:46:14,290 --> 00:46:17,690 S1: fleshing it out for us today with our callers. And 776 00:46:17,730 --> 00:46:20,250 S1: I thank you. And I ask you to come back again. Okay. 777 00:46:21,010 --> 00:46:23,129 S2: I would be glad to. And I would just say, 778 00:46:23,130 --> 00:46:25,930 S2: I think the book addresses these in a practical way 779 00:46:25,930 --> 00:46:28,370 S2: that would give people a map or a guide to 780 00:46:28,410 --> 00:46:30,810 S2: work through these things. And thanks for having me on. 781 00:46:30,810 --> 00:46:31,490 S2: It's a joy. 782 00:46:32,090 --> 00:46:34,410 S1: His name is Chip Ingram. You can find out more 783 00:46:34,410 --> 00:46:38,209 S1: about him at the website Chris dot. The book is 784 00:46:38,210 --> 00:46:42,370 S1: I Choose Love, a featured resource right there. And remember, 785 00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:45,930 S1: Chris Fabry live is production of Moody Radio, a Ministry 786 00:46:45,930 --> 00:46:48,090 S1: of Moody Bible Institute.