S1: It's hugely significant in the life of a teen to
S1: have just the regular routine of sitting down and talking
S1: together as a family. For a lot of reasons. It's
S1: gotten crowded out of our homes, some of that sports
S1: and activities and school homework, and those are good things,
S1: but they're squeezing out the better things.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
S2: Melissa Krueger gives help and a whole lot of hope
S2: to parents of teenagers. If that's you or if you're
S2: preparing for the teen years, don't miss the conversation straight ahead.
S2: You can find our featured resource at the website Building
S2: Relationships US.
S3: That resource is Melissa's book, parenting with Hope Raising Teens
S3: for Christ in a Secular Age. Doctor Chapman, the focus
S3: for a lot of parents is on how do I
S3: get the child or the teenager to come out the
S3: way I think they ought to come out, and the
S3: longer I live, I got to be honest, the more
S3: I think parents are the ones who change the most
S3: when they have teenagers. What do you think of that?
S4: Well, I think parents change for sure, and I'm not.
S4: I'm not sure that it's always in a good direction.
S4: I've sometimes said I never really had a serious problem
S4: with anger until I had a teenage son. So. But fortunately,
S4: not only did it get worse for me, but we
S4: found an answer. So I'm excited about our conversation today
S4: because I think almost everybody that parents teenagers can use
S4: a little help along the way. And this, this book
S4: and our conversation today is going to offer that kind
S4: of help.
S3: Amen to that. Let's meet Melissa Krueger. She serves as
S3: vice president of discipleship programming at the Gospel Coalition. She
S3: teaches women at conferences around the country. Her husband, Michael Krueger,
S3: is president and professor of New Testament at Reformed Theological
S3: Seminary in Charlotte. Together, they have three young adult children
S3: and are featured resource at Building Relationships. US is the
S3: book parenting with Hope. Just go to Building Relationships US
S3: to find out more.
S4: Well, Melissa, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1: Thanks so much for having me. It's so great to
S1: get to chat with you today.
S4: Well, do you agree that parenting teenagers sometimes changes the
S4: parents as much, if not more, than the teens?
S1: Well, I hope so because I think if we don't change,
S1: if we're not growing, it's actually going to be a
S1: problem for our teens. And so yes, absolutely. I hope
S1: that this season of parenting teens, that we don't just
S1: view it as a season where we're helping them grow,
S1: but we're actively growing ourselves. I think it's hugely important
S1: that we view ourselves as lifelong learners, just like we're
S1: trying to teach them things.
S4: So you've written parenting with Hope Raising Teens for Christ
S4: in a Secular Age. How is raising faith filled teens
S4: this generation different from previous generations?
S1: Yes. Well, I think there's certain things that are always true, right?
S1: This season of development and growth is always a place
S1: where our kids are moving from being children to adults.
S1: And so there's always a transition that happens. I would
S1: say in every generation. I mean that, you know, there's
S1: always this handoff of, huh, you are no longer just
S1: a child and now you're moving to adulthood. But I
S1: would say, um, in this season of where we are
S1: in our society, I think one of the biggest changes
S1: for this generation has been the advent of cell phone
S1: use and social media. Um, so our teens do legitimately
S1: have access to more information than any other generation in history.
S1: I mean, they, in the palm of their hand, have
S1: access to tons of good things and tons of bad things.
S1: And so it's just a reality that we have as
S1: we parent teens in this generation.
S4: Here, and parents themselves sometimes get obsessed with the cell
S4: phone or as well. Right.
S1: That's right. So we have to also realize that we
S1: might not even see what's going in on in our home,
S1: because we might be obsessed with our cell phone, you know?
S1: I mean, and that's a huge problem. I mean, I
S1: think you go to any restaurant and you look around
S1: and it's kind of fascinating when you actually lift your
S1: head up and look around at what's happening at dinner tables,
S1: you know, these people are paying to be out at
S1: a restaurant, and a lot of times everyone's glued to
S1: their phones rather than actually having a conversation with one another.
S1: We're looking at the outside world rather than experiencing our
S1: own very good life. We're just, you know, we're looking
S1: at other people's lives a lot of the time. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. That's a fundamental rule we had at our house.
S4: Of course, you know, our kids came along before cell phones,
S4: but we didn't. No television, no radio, you know, nothing
S4: else going on at mealtime. We're just. We're here to
S4: do two things. Eat together and talk together. You know, pretty,
S4: pretty fundamental. The parent has to take the lead in
S4: that sort of thing, right?
S1: Yeah. It's one of those really small things. Or it
S1: seems like a small thing, like a family dinner. You think, oh,
S1: why is that so significant? But it's it's hugely significant
S1: in the life of a teen to have just the
S1: regular routine of sitting down and talking together as a family. Um,
S1: and I think for a lot of reasons, it's gotten
S1: crowded out of our homes. Some of that sports and
S1: activities and school homework, all these things are squeezing out
S1: and those are good things, but they're squeezing out the
S1: better things in a lot of ways.
S4: Yep. You know, as a mother of three young adults,
S4: what surprised you most when you entered into, you know,
S4: the teenage stage with your with your eldest daughter?
S1: Yeah. I think what surprised me was how quickly we
S1: got there, you know, I mean, it's amazing how quickly
S1: a ten year old changes to a 12 year old
S1: and it just sneaks up on you. I don't know
S1: if you felt that way as well. You know, it's
S1: this transition that seems to be going so slow. You know,
S1: you're just busy getting tennis shoes tied and, you know,
S1: soccer uniforms washed and all of these things happening. And
S1: then all of the sudden they are transitioning from being
S1: a child who's playing in your backyard to slowly they're
S1: wanting to engage more in conversation with you. And that
S1: was one of the big things I noticed. My oldest daughter, um,
S1: we we would be out in the cul de sac
S1: with our friends, and I would be shooing her away
S1: to go play with the kids. And I started to
S1: realize she actually wanted to talk to the moms, and
S1: she wanted to hear what they were talking about. And
S1: so she was becoming more interested in adult conversation rather
S1: than just, you know, riding bikes in the cul de sac.
S1: And I realized even in my own heart, how quick
S1: I was to shoo her away and say, oh, go play.
S1: I want, I want to have my time with my
S1: friends here talking in the cul de sac. And it
S1: really hit me, oh, this is a time to invite
S1: her in to into age appropriate conversations with other adults
S1: like this is a good time to invite them in,
S1: not kind of shoo them away. And I think sometimes
S1: we do that with our teens. We don't realize, oh,
S1: they're actually starting to get interested in different things, and
S1: we can sometimes still parent them like they're our child,
S1: rather than inviting them into things that they might be
S1: growing interested in as they're aging.
S4: Yeah, yeah. Well, as you look back on on that
S4: stage in raising your, your girls, uh, what what resources
S4: or what advice do you wish you would have had
S4: at that time?
S1: Yeah, so many things. Right. I wish I had a
S1: little friend to walk around and tell me every day, oh,
S1: don't do that or don't say that, or I think
S1: she's just a little moody because hormones are shifting right now,
S1: you know. So so I wish in some ways we
S1: had a little person to follow around and tell us
S1: these things. But, you know, I really do, um, in
S1: some ways, you know, wish that I had someone telling me,
S1: be patient in this season, everything doesn't have to be
S1: figured out now. And there are a lot of resources
S1: out there, maybe for specific areas of parenting teens. But
S1: I think there's not something, you know, like if your
S1: kid has ADHD or maybe if your child is struggling
S1: with problem X or problem Y, but almost a little
S1: bit more of a holistic resource for how to be
S1: the parent of a teenager rather than just specific things
S1: you're trying to work on with your kids. So what
S1: I really think we have a lot of with young
S1: kids are things that talk about child development. And here's
S1: what your two year old should be doing at this age.
S1: Here's what your three year old should be doing. And
S1: somewhere along the way, we stop reading those resources. So
S1: I just was really looking for something that would actually
S1: tell me, how are teens developing? How are they different
S1: than adults? What do we need to be aware of
S1: about their sleep habits, about their what their understanding about
S1: their frontal lobe, and maybe the fact that my son
S1: can't remember his homework is actually a really normal thing
S1: at this stage, because I think that helps give us
S1: sympathy when we're parenting our teens, not to give them
S1: excuses for bad behavior, but to understand what they're struggling
S1: with in this season of being a teenager.
S4: You know, I don't know if they had books on
S4: for parents, on teenagers when our kids came along because
S4: it was a good long while ago, but I never
S4: saw one. Uh, so this book is timely and, uh,
S4: it's going to be a help to a lot of folks.
S4: I'm sure. Melissa, as children are transitioning into new stages
S4: of life like the teenage years, why is it vital
S4: for parents to change as well as the teenager changing?
S1: Yeah, well, and what I like to say on this
S1: is that our principles can remain the same, but our
S1: practice has to change as as we parent children, if
S1: we're parenting our two year old, our toddler, like we're
S1: parenting a teenager, we're probably going to have problems. And
S1: one example I like to give of this is that,
S1: you know, when you have a two year old, typically
S1: with discipline and things like that, you want to correct
S1: them quickly. Like if a child runs out into the street,
S1: you want to immediately get them and sit with them
S1: and say, hey, you cannot run out in the street.
S1: It's dangerous. You know, you need to do it right away.
S1: If you waited a day, they would totally forget what
S1: you're talking about. You know, the a young child needs
S1: that immediate, um, interaction when they've done something incorrect. Whereas
S1: with a teenager, I actually think the principle, oh, our
S1: teen is going to need correction. Well, that's going to
S1: remain the same. But our practice of when we give
S1: that might change. So if I have a teenager walking
S1: in the door, slamming the door, kind of being moody,
S1: you know, not answering questions at that moment, I might
S1: not have the conversation of, hey, you're being rude right now.
S1: You shouldn't slam the door. You shouldn't do this. I
S1: might wait and then later in the day say, hey,
S1: you seemed upset when you came in. Can you tell
S1: me a little bit more about what's going on? Um,
S1: did something happen at school today? I think it's always
S1: wise with teenagers to wait for a better moment to
S1: offer correction. Then maybe when they are in a bad mood,
S1: something else happened. And you know you want to. You
S1: want to hear what's going on in their lives. Before
S1: we kind of pile on more things, there might be
S1: a good reason that they were having a hard day.
S1: And then you can have the conversation. You can say, hey,
S1: what would have been the right thing to do when
S1: you came in feeling upset about that? Rather than slam
S1: the door so you can still offer correction. So the
S1: principle that our kids are going to need correction, that's
S1: going to, you know, be there as long as we
S1: have kids, as long as we're human, we're going to
S1: need to be corrected in certain ways. But how we
S1: go about that should be changing as our teens growing.
S1: So I think as a parent, that just takes a
S1: shift for us to have the wisdom to parent as
S1: we should, for different seasons of life. It's not a
S1: one size fits all for even for individual kids, but
S1: definitely not for different seasons of raising our kids.
S5: Yeah.
S4: I was just sitting here thinking what you just shared
S4: also applies to husband and wife relationship. Not that we
S4: not that we have to correct them, but to not
S4: perhaps not respond when they're upset, not responding at the moment,
S4: but that night to say, you know, honey, uh, you.
S4: Da da da da da da.
S6: That's right.
S4: We can we can all process it better not in
S4: the heat of the moment. Right?
S6: That's right.
S1: And, you know, I think that's actually a really good principle. Like,
S1: how would how would I do this with my spouse?
S1: You know, you're there changing. It's it's it's a little
S1: bit different of a situation as our kids are older
S1: or even a friend. You know, if a friend walked
S1: in and slammed the door, you wouldn't immediately scold them.
S1: You might say, hey, is everything okay? Yeah. You know,
S1: and just to remember, you know, having experiences outside the
S1: home that are sometimes really hard and they don't have, um,
S1: the years of emotional resources to know how to deal
S1: with it properly. They're learning to, as they go through this,
S1: this stage.
S4: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, now you have a degree in
S4: secondary education, and you previously taught at a large public school.
S4: What did your experiences teach you in that setting?
S1: Yeah, I, um, I loved being a teacher. I taught
S1: high school math. And, um, the one thing you realize
S1: when you're a math teacher is that your subject is
S1: not of much interest to most of the kids coming
S1: into the class. And so I realized I needed to
S1: win them relationally before I was going to be able
S1: to teach them anything that they had to actually know
S1: I cared about them. Now what? That didn't mean. That
S1: didn't mean my classroom didn't have rules. It didn't have expectations. Actually,
S1: I had a lot of high expectations for my kids
S1: when I taught, but they needed to know it was
S1: coming from a place of care and concern and not control. Um,
S1: and I think kids, teens, teens are smart, you know,
S1: they can pick up, do you want this classroom quiet
S1: because it suits you and you don't really like us anyway,
S1: and you just want everybody to do what you're saying?
S1: Or do you really care about me? And that's why
S1: you're trying to teach me. They can they can sense
S1: the difference. And I realized, um, I realized I think
S1: it was really profound for me to understand when I
S1: was in those classrooms with kids, because I'd have 150
S1: different kids every year. And I realized, you know, so
S1: often we think teens don't want adult involvement. They really
S1: do want. Our involvement, but they want to be treated,
S1: you know, with respect and curiosity rather than just always
S1: told what to do. And so I think asking good
S1: questions and learning about their life was really important. In
S1: addition to teaching them math in both can happen. It's
S1: not an either or question. Um, and so I just
S1: I love the season of, of kids and I love
S1: that age. And um, they're really, really interesting and they're
S1: really eager for adult involvement. I think sometimes we think
S1: they just want to be with their friends. But but
S1: what I found was they really do want to be
S1: with adults who will listen and be interested in their
S1: perspective on life.
S5: Yeah, yeah.
S4: I found that in the church, if I start asking
S4: questions of a teenager, you know, just a teenager in
S4: the church, they'll talk and talk and talk if you
S4: ask questions, you know. Yes. And they they will do
S4: the same with parents, you know. Now, in the book
S4: you emphasize, of course, one's Christian faith, you know. And
S4: why is that so important for parents that they have
S4: their own faith, you know, rooted in Christ, if they're
S4: going to really help their teenagers?
S1: Yeah. Well, um, I think this gets back a little
S1: bit to what we were even just talking about. Teens
S1: can spot a fake faster than anybody else. And so,
S1: you know, if we're asking them to live up to
S1: a standard that we're not living up to, um, they,
S1: they really are going to notice it. Or if we're
S1: living our life on Sunday one way, and then we're
S1: living totally in opposition to that the rest of the week,
S1: they're going to see what we value. And that is
S1: a little bit terrifying. You know, as a parent that wow,
S1: they really see. And so and the and the other
S1: reality is if I'm not reading God's Word and if
S1: I'm not in prayer myself, it's going to be hard
S1: to convince my child that I really think that's important
S1: for them to do. Whereas they if they see the
S1: quiet daily habits of our life being, oh, I value
S1: God's Word enough. So I read it every day, I
S1: pray every day. And they see these habits. They, you know,
S1: they see the experience of the home. It starts to
S1: make an impression on them that even if they reject
S1: it for a season, I really do believe that it
S1: makes this lasting impression on them that one day, maybe
S1: when they find themselves, you know, where they never thought
S1: they'd be, or in a really hard spot, or just
S1: desperate for help. They'll be like, my mom always prayed,
S1: I'm going to try prayer, you know? And so we've
S1: at least set the example for them that they might
S1: find when they're 28, or when they're 36, or when
S1: they're 52, you know, whatever age, but that those things
S1: will leave an impression on them that will come back later,
S1: we hope.
S4: Yeah. So so I hear you saying that our our model,
S4: how we model our faith in daily life is really
S4: more important than the words we say. Trying to teach them. Yes.
S1: I mean, because if they're not in conjunction with one another,
S1: what we live before them is always speaking more loudly
S1: than our words.
S5: Yeah, yeah.
S4: What type of home life typically would tend to have
S4: the best outcome for teens? Like what? What is it?
S4: What does it look like?
S1: Different scientists have given names to different types of parenting.
S1: They did this in my education classes because they also
S1: give it this type of teaching. And there are three
S1: typical ones. They have a fourth category, but that's just
S1: absentee parents. But um, typically parenting falls into a permissive
S1: category authoritative and authoritarian by authoritarian. It's very much my
S1: way or the highway. Permissive is, well, whatever you want
S1: to do, just do it. There are really no rules.
S1: Authoritative is kind of this middle ground where there are
S1: high expectations, there are still rules, but there's a lot
S1: of warmth. Um, there's a lot of understanding that goes
S1: into that. So it's a little bit more of a yes.
S1: We're going to have boundaries, but we're also going to
S1: have conversations. Um, and we're going to understand certain boundaries
S1: are always going to be there, you know, that the
S1: Bible gives us. So those boundaries are firm. But there
S1: are every home has its own set of rules that
S1: are not biblical. Yeah. Like when someone is allowed to
S1: get a cell phone, that's not a biblical rule. Or
S1: when someone's allowed to date these type conversations that we
S1: can have with our teens. And I really believe at
S1: some point it's good for them to become stakeholders in
S1: those conversations. Will that type of home, an authoritative home,
S1: has just for years and years and years and generations,
S1: been shown to have just the best outcomes for kids
S1: in general, whether it's mental health, whether it's relationship with
S1: the parents, whether it's the transmission of faith from the
S1: adult to the child, all of those things are better
S1: in authoritative, not authoritarian or, um, permissive homes.
S5: Yeah.
S4: What's the difference between, uh, being gracious, you know, to
S4: your children and this whole permissive idea?
S6: Yeah.
S1: I always say you can't be gracious in a permissive
S1: home because there are no rules to be gracious about.
S1: You know, a permissive, a permissive home. Anything goes. Whereas
S1: in a gracious home, a gracious home is by definition
S1: a home where there are standards. But when those standards
S1: aren't met, it's met with love and forgiveness and hope
S1: for change rather than condemnation. So I think there's a
S1: big difference between, um, have offering correction to our child
S1: and offering condemnation. Um, what we want to offer corrections
S1: actually hopeful. It says it looks at you and says, hey,
S1: you can do better than this. This isn't how this is.
S1: You know, you're better. You don't. You don't need to lie.
S1: You're not you're not a liar. Whereas condemnation comes to
S1: a teen and says says language like that, you're a liar.
S1: You know, you never do anything good that's condemning. Which
S1: we don't really want to use that with our teens,
S1: where we want to say is, hey, you know, it
S1: really bothers me that you lied to me about where
S1: you were going to be. That's not how I want
S1: this family to be. Truth is really important, and I
S1: need to know that you're going to be truthful with
S1: me if you want me to trust you. So there's
S1: going to be a consequence for your lying. But I
S1: know that, you know we can do better next time.
S1: And I want you to always feel like you can
S1: tell me the truth. That's actually hopeful. That's a gracious
S1: home that says, I know mistakes are going to be made,
S1: but I'm going to love you through them, and I'm
S1: going to meet them with grace and kindness. Yeah.
S4: What about when the parent themselves, you know, kind of
S4: blow it, lose their temper or whatever, and the whole
S4: thing of apologizing to their children? I've had some parents
S4: say to me, well, if I apologize to my teenager,
S4: won't they lose respect for me? And I typically say, oh, no,
S4: they gain respect because they know what you did was wrong.
S4: So you say a word about that?
S6: Yes.
S1: I actually think one of the best things I tell
S1: I tell people walking into the teen years, I say
S1: one of the best things you can do is learn
S1: how to give a good apology. And you're going to
S1: as we learn to give a good apologies. One of
S1: the things I've watched with my kids is they know
S1: how to give good apologies to one another. It's it's
S1: probably one of my biggest joys as a parent when
S1: I not. You don't want to watch your kids squabble
S1: and get into arguments about things, but what I notice
S1: is really quickly they go back to one another and
S1: they say, hey, I'm sorry I lost my patience with
S1: you about that. They actually know how to name what
S1: they did wrong and then ask for forgiveness. And it's
S1: it's easily given we you know, there's the reality is,
S1: you know, the Bible tells us even in the Lord's Prayer,
S1: forgive us our debts. Like that's part of the Lord's
S1: Prayer that we're to pray every day. Well, that kind
S1: of presupposes that we're going to make mistakes, and we're
S1: going to need to ask for forgiveness from God, but
S1: also from each other. And so we're really teaching our
S1: kids how to be in healthy relationships by teaching them, hey,
S1: to be in a healthy relationship, you're going to have
S1: to say you're sorry. Um, I'm going to tell you
S1: I'm sorry, because one of the biggest principles for me
S1: as a parent is that my response is my responsibility.
S1: If I find myself yelling at my teen, that's my
S1: no one made me yell. No one made me become
S1: impatient or unkind or unloving. I have to own that.
S1: And I need to apologize for that. Um, it actually
S1: helps them learn that their response is their responsibility if
S1: we own our responses. So yes, I'm a big believer
S1: in learn to give a good apology and own our
S1: behavior without excusing theirs. But we have to own our own.
S4: Yeah, if they don't learn how to apologize, they're never
S4: going to have a good marriage.
S6: Exactly, exactly.
S4: None of us are going to be perfect as adults.
S6: Exactly.
S3: We hope you're enjoying the Building Relationships podcast. Tell a
S3: friend about the conversation. If you know somebody who's in
S3: the middle of parenting a teen and they need some help.
S3: Send them to building relationships. Dot us. Featured resource is
S3: the book by Melissa Krueger, parenting with Hope raising Teens
S3: for Christ in a Secular Age. You can find that
S3: and more at building relationships.us.
S4: Yeah. You tell the account when you were younger that
S4: you had an accident with a car and a garage door. Uh,
S4: tell us about that and what you learned from it.
S1: Yeah. Um, I it was one of those days I
S1: was working as a teenager. I had my first job, um,
S1: and I was rushing out the door because I was late,
S1: and I got in the car, and I backed up
S1: the car, and I immediately heard the crash. I had
S1: forgotten to open the garage door when I was backing up,
S1: and my mom heard the crash. She came outside. She
S1: looked at me. She immediately said, um, hey, you need
S1: to get to work. You're late. Here are my keys.
S1: Take my car. And you know, in that moment, she
S1: had the wherewithal to see what was needed. Not maybe
S1: what was very what was very frustrating about the circumstance.
S1: That was before her, which was a completely destroyed garage door.
S1: So she sent me on my way. And by the
S1: time I got home that night, my dad had somehow
S1: managed to get my car out of the garage. And
S1: I walk in the door and he looks at me
S1: with a smile on his face, and he was just like, girl,
S1: what happened today? Um. But he never scolded me for it.
S1: He never got upset with me and I it really
S1: I mean, honestly, when I was writing that part in
S1: the book, I was brought to tears thinking about how
S1: they graciously covered my mistake. My mom, by quickly giving
S1: me her car keys and letting me take her car,
S1: my dad by getting it fixed and just, you know,
S1: teasing me about it a little bit, but never scolding
S1: me about it, never getting on my case. They realized
S1: I had made a mistake and that it wasn't a
S1: willful wow. You know, I'm trying to be disobedient here,
S1: and it was just a real act of grace. And
S1: that is something I keep in mind in all of
S1: my parenting. There's such a big difference between a child
S1: who makes a mistake, then a child who goes off
S1: and does something purposefully wrong. And I saw that in them.
S1: And I've always been thankful for it. And that has
S1: lived in my mind. My all of my parenting journey
S1: is I want to be a gracious parent like my
S1: parents were.
S4: That's powerful. Powerful story. Melissa. Within the book, you share
S4: idols that parents struggle with which limit their faith. Uh,
S4: share that a little bit. What are you talking about there?
S1: Yeah. And I know in our age we think of
S1: idols and we think, huh? I don't bow down to
S1: a little, you know, gold statue or anything like that.
S1: And I definitely don't think that's what Scripture is talking about,
S1: you know, when it talks about idol worship. But we
S1: do anything that we're kind of depending upon or relying
S1: upon to give us joy or happiness out, you know,
S1: as our main means for that outside of God. It
S1: means a good thing can sometimes what become what I
S1: like to say is a God thing. And we actually
S1: see this with the Israelites. There's a verse in the
S1: Old Testament that is very sobering to me, and it
S1: says this. It says even while the people were worshiping
S1: the Lord, they were serving their idols. To this day,
S1: their children and grandchildren continue to do the same. And
S1: that verse talks about so the people were worshiping the Lord.
S1: They were looking religious, but they were actually serving their idols.
S1: And so I think there are a lot of various
S1: idols people talk about, you know, control or comfort or
S1: power or approval. But I also think we have a
S1: lot of idols in our culture when it comes to teens.
S1: And the three I talk about in the book are
S1: sports and activities, um, scholastic achievement and social acceptance. Those
S1: are the three I cover, and those lead to a
S1: lot of other things. Like a lot of times parents
S1: want their kids to do well in school because they
S1: want them to get a good job and make a
S1: lot of money. Yeah. I mean, so there's this whole
S1: money idolatry that can pop up, too. There's a lot
S1: of different reasons. We have the idols we have, but
S1: we see them in our culture, and it just means
S1: it's it's not bad to make money. It's not bad
S1: to have a good job. It's not bad to work hard.
S1: But those can be when they're idols in our hearts.
S1: And that's what we're really after. Our kids are going
S1: to absorb those. They're like sponges. They're they're they take
S1: in what we value. So if they know that dad
S1: really cares that, you know, his son plays football and
S1: that's what he's really about. You know, sometimes the teen's
S1: going to say, well, that's all that matters. It doesn't
S1: really matter that I'm godly or I'm living according to
S1: God's Word. What really the real value of my dad
S1: is that I play football. And so I think as parents,
S1: we all have to consider and it'd be interesting, I
S1: think it'd be an interesting thing to ask if we
S1: go home and we ask our kids, what do you
S1: think is most important? To me about how you grow up.
S1: It'd be interesting to what they answer. Do they think
S1: it's really most important that you get into a good school?
S1: Do they think it's most important that you make straight A's?
S1: Do they think it's most important you're on the basketball team?
S1: What do they really think we value? I think it'd
S1: be an interesting question to ask our teens. Maybe a
S1: scary one to ask, but it really is reveals how
S1: what they're picking up on in our home.
S4: I think a lot of parents would be surprised.
S6: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.
S4: At the at the answer to that question.
S6: I actually.
S1: Wrote a kids book on this topic when my oldest
S1: was going to college. I have a kids book. It's
S1: called wherever You Go I want you to know and
S1: it talks about everything a kid could be or everything
S1: a kid could do and but the the end. What
S1: I say is my supreme hope is that you you
S1: know Jesus. And I've had parents write in and they
S1: said their kid looked at them, their little child looked up,
S1: back up at them and said, is that really what
S1: you want for me, mommy? Just to know Jesus? And
S1: it was so great. I was like, oh, if we
S1: could get this message into them young that that's our
S1: biggest hope, our greatest, you know, hope for them is
S1: that they know Jesus when they leave our homes. I
S1: think that would that would be the message I wanted
S1: my kids to leave home with. I hope they did.
S5: Yeah.
S4: What happens when parents exclusively almost seek. Their own joy
S4: from their child's happiness.
S1: Yeah. Um, it's going to be like a marriage. Yeah, yeah.
S1: As we talked about some in this conversation, if, if I,
S1: as a wife, you know, am seeking joy and my
S1: husband's happiness or vice versa, if I'm thinking he's here
S1: to make me happy, it never really goes well. Um,
S1: in relationships, when another person's joy is what makes us happy,
S1: because we're kind of always dependent upon them and we're
S1: always trying to please them. And so our teens are
S1: going through a lot. I mean, their emotions are going
S1: up and down on a daily basis. And, you know,
S1: it's tempting to take that roller coaster ride with them
S1: and be up when they're up and down when they're down.
S1: But they really need from us, I think, the emotional
S1: stability to walk through their ups and downs and be
S1: calm and be a clarifying voice for them in the
S1: midst of it. Um, and so if we've got to
S1: basically be rooting our joy and our contentment in God
S1: and His Word and his promises to us, not how
S1: our teens are doing, and that's actually a gift to them, um,
S1: that's going to help them be able to have highs
S1: and lows and bring those things to us rather than, um,
S1: I don't want my child to be so fretful that
S1: if she's up some upset about something, well, that's going
S1: to make my mom so upset. So I don't even
S1: want to tell her because she's going to, you know,
S1: not be able to handle it, or our kids shouldn't
S1: have to be managing our emotions. Um, we need to
S1: have the maturity to do that on our own so
S1: that they're free to express their emotions and we can
S1: walk through that with them. That is easier said than done. Yeah. Um,
S1: because when our kids are having a hard time, it
S1: is hard for us. But we should go talk about
S1: that with a friend, not talk about it with our teen,
S1: you know, so that.
S6: Yeah, so.
S1: That they can experience that.
S4: Now, you mentioned sports, uh, in, uh, earlier, uh, what
S4: are the dangers of teen sports and other activities today?
S4: In our culture.
S1: It's become a thing. I mean, I played sports all
S1: through high school, and I loved it. And, um, and
S1: I was involved in sports even outside of my school
S1: and all of that and club teams, you know, that
S1: was already starting. But I think now it has started
S1: earlier and it is more intense. Um, and I think
S1: the problem I see with it is, um, many times
S1: it is keeping families away from family dinners. And the
S1: other thing, it really is keeping them out of his church.
S1: I always tell parents who ask my opinion on that.
S1: I say, well, most kids will not go on to
S1: play in college and most kids will not go on
S1: to play professional sports. But we do want them to
S1: be professional, lifelong church goers. These teen years are really
S1: important time. It's a really important season to prioritize church
S1: with our kids, because that's going to set them up
S1: for when they when they go to college. I'm okay
S1: if they don't play sports in college, but I really
S1: want them to go to church in college. And so
S1: the pattern in our home is going to be a
S1: pattern that they're used to when they get to college.
S6: Yeah.
S4: I remember when our son said to me, uh, I
S4: don't want to go to Sunday school. And I said, why?
S4: He said, it's boring. And I said, well, I can
S4: understand that. I said, because I've been in boring classes, too.
S4: I said, but, you know, in our family we go
S4: to Sunday school and maybe if you don't want it
S4: to be boring, maybe you could start asking questions, you know,
S4: and get the teacher discussing things that you would like
S4: to ask.
S6: That's great.
S4: So he wasn't super happy. But you know, being the authority,
S4: the parent is still the authority. But it's it's done with,
S4: you know, we are going to do this, but you
S4: can decide to make it boring, you know. Mhm. That's right.
S4: And he never brought it up again. You know. He
S4: never brought it up again.
S6: And you were.
S1: Understanding. I mean sometimes it is boring. I mean we
S1: as adults have all sat in really boring sermons in
S1: Sunday school classes. Yeah that's right. I think sometimes just
S1: saying yeah I was bored too. Yeah. That was rough.
S1: You know, like just like you said. And and I
S1: think that's, you know, in some ways a really good word.
S1: Sometimes I read the Bible and I am like, what
S1: was that passage about? I was completely lost. I have
S1: no idea why that genealogy was in there. Like, I
S1: don't know what I was doing. And just to help
S1: them realize that's just part of it. You know, sometimes
S1: you don't understand it all or sometimes it is boring.
S1: But what you learn over time is going to matter.
S1: It's not that every individual Sunday school or church service
S1: is going to be this spiritual high, but over time,
S1: you're going to grow spiritually in ways you might not
S1: even be aware of just by being there.
S4: But let's talk about technology. You know, this is probably
S4: the number one question that I get. And you get, uh,
S4: you know, what about phones and what about devices and
S4: social media and so forth? What do you say to
S4: parents in this area?
S1: Yeah, the research that is coming in is not positive. Basically,
S1: for every hour a child spends on their cell phone
S1: or in social media, um, they are a certain percentage
S1: less happy. Their, their happiness goes down the longer they're
S1: on their phones. You know, the high school that I
S1: went to in Raleigh was built in such a way
S1: that it had inner courtyards, and those inner courtyards were
S1: so that teenagers could go out and smoke in them. Now,
S1: by the time I got to that high school, no
S1: one was allowed to smoke in the inner courtyard anymore.
S1: They had realized, huh? Cigarettes are not good for teenagers. They're,
S1: you know, they're not good for anyone. So they changed
S1: the rules, you know, and schools changed. You know, schools
S1: changed the way they used to have smoking allowed in
S1: the high school. They used to have smoking on airplanes.
S1: You know, these are things we can't imagine now. Right?
S1: But once the statistics and once the data came in,
S1: they removed it from those places. And I really believe
S1: that the more data comes in about mental health and
S1: different things that's coming in about cell phone use, I
S1: think there will be removal from high schools, and we
S1: will look at this very differently about when we give
S1: our kids smartphones and when we let them have social media.
S1: And hopefully, um, some of those things are going to
S1: change culturally, which will help parents out. I think the
S1: struggle right now is that parents are living kind of
S1: in the wild, wild west of smartphones and social media.
S1: The data is just now coming in, and it's hard
S1: to be the parent who's making different decisions. But I
S1: would just encourage you, um, just like when our kids get,
S1: you know, their driver's license, they have to go through
S1: some pretty rigorous tests and study to actually be able
S1: to get on the road and drive, and they have
S1: to drive for a full year before they're allowed to
S1: drive on their own. And so I think it's okay
S1: to tell our teens, hey, we're going to have a
S1: conversation about getting a smartphone and all of those things,
S1: but we're going to read some things before you do.
S1: I want you to actually really understand how this device
S1: works and what might be problematic about it. And what
S1: are some of the trouble spots before I just let
S1: you have one. And I think that's being responsible as
S1: a parent. It's not being overly restrictive. Our kids might
S1: feel like it is, but, um, that's that's unfortunately, sometimes
S1: our job as parents is to help protect them from
S1: what they can't see, um, as being a problem. And
S1: I do think technology has a lot of pitfalls for
S1: our teenagers.
S5: Yeah.
S4: Yeah, I've heard, uh, parents say, well, you know, when
S4: I told my son or daughter that I was not
S4: going to get them a cell phone, you know, at
S4: a certain certain age, whatever it was. And the child,
S4: the teenager says, if you love me, you'd get me one.
S4: And they asked me how I should, how I'd respond
S4: to that. I said, well, you tell them I love
S4: you too much to get you one.
S6: That's good.
S4: As a parent, I have to do what I think
S4: is best for you. So I love you too much
S4: to do that. So. But you know, teenagers will try
S4: to manipulate you, of course, to get what they want.
S4: I mean, that's just normal. It's it's human. So we
S4: have to recognize that. Yeah.
S1: That's right.
S4: Okay, let's talk about families praying together. You created some
S4: cards with specific requests for each day. Tell us about this.
S4: And how do we help our teenagers develop a prayer life?
S1: Yeah. I think one of the simplest ways that we
S1: can help our teens in life is to just teach
S1: them spiritual habits. And I always like to say, I mean,
S1: the goal here is not perfection. We are we are
S1: teaching patterns. So in our home we met every morning
S1: at the kitchen table. Um, and this was probably for
S1: ten minutes. My husband would read a devotional and we
S1: would pray. And on these prayer cards, um, we had
S1: a different one for every day of the week. And
S1: one of the kids names was at the top, or my,
S1: my husband or my name was at the top. So
S1: there was a person in the family we prayed for.
S1: The second thing we prayed for was some sort of
S1: leader in their life. Maybe it was our pastor, maybe
S1: it was a principal. Um, we also prayed for governing officials,
S1: you know, like we prayed for the president or we
S1: prayed for our governor or, you know, something like that.
S1: We prayed for a missionary every day who we supported. Um,
S1: and then we prayed for like a world event that
S1: was going on. So something that was current event relevant.
S1: And so I made these cards. It took probably 15
S1: minutes to make the cards, but they guided us each
S1: day so that my kids learned, okay, we pray for
S1: the people we love. We pray for leaders in our life.
S1: We pray for missionaries who are going out into the
S1: world and we pray for current events. What this created
S1: was one time during the day as a family when
S1: we prayed together and everyone, different people prayed different days,
S1: but all of the kids just learned how to pray
S1: out loud for one another, and they learned how to
S1: care for one another in that way. And what I
S1: will say, it made spontaneous prayer really easy. Yeah. So
S1: we're going on a trip. We pray for the trip
S1: before we go, and everyone always just felt comfortable with
S1: prayer because we had these daily habits again. Some mornings
S1: were crazy. We missed, some mornings. We were not perfect,
S1: but it was definitely the pattern of the home that
S1: we tried to incorporate. Prayer, you know, on a daily
S1: basis in our home life.
S5: Yeah.
S4: I like that idea because it's not just, uh, uh,
S4: them praying the same prayer every day, saying the same
S4: thing every day, you know, which could just be a habit.
S4: And you don't even remember what you're saying, you know.
S6: Exactly.
S4: But when you when you've got cards that give you suggestions. Yeah,
S4: I think that's great. So. So how does prayer help
S4: teenagers navigate the world in which they live?
S1: Yeah. Well, I think we have seen, you know, kids
S1: are more anxious than ever. They're stressed. They're dealing with
S1: all sorts of things. And what I will say is
S1: prayer offers them something to do with their fear. I mean,
S1: I think one of one of the benefits of living
S1: in the information age is we have a lot of information.
S1: So if you want to find out, you know how
S1: to fix your sink, you can probably Google it. That's
S1: a wonderful thing. The the problem of an information age
S1: is that we have a lot of information, and that
S1: means we know that war is happening across the world immediately.
S1: You know, we know these things on a daily basis.
S1: We know, um, if people are hungry in a certain
S1: part of the world. Yeah, we basically know a lot
S1: of horrible things that are happening all over the world.
S1: And that is a lot to hold as a human.
S1: You know, we're not really made to know all of that.
S1: And what I do think we can do with those
S1: fears and those concerns that our kids might have just
S1: by watching the evening news, is to be able to say, hey, well,
S1: let's pray about this. It gives us something we can do.
S1: We can call on God to help and and we
S1: can say, hey, I don't know how God's going to
S1: answer this, but through his church, God's got people all
S1: over the world. Um, maybe he can. Maybe he will
S1: send someone to help in that. In that scenario, that
S1: earthquake that just happened again. Yeah. Normally it would take
S1: us weeks to know about the earthquake, but now we
S1: see pictures of it right away. That's hard. I mean,
S1: so I think prayer really gives us a lifeline. We
S1: can call out to God and ask him to do
S1: something when we're really powerless to do anything.
S4: You know, I think when the children were little, many
S4: Christian parents actually pray with the children individually at night
S4: when they put them to bed. You know, just bow
S4: by the bed and have a prayer with them and
S4: let the child pray at their level. And you pray.
S4: And sometimes if you start that when they're young, it
S4: can that you can carry that into the teenage years,
S4: you know. But but not always. But I think if
S4: we make prayer a vital part of our interfacing with
S4: each other, which you've described already, it really helps them
S4: make prayer a central part of their lives.
S1: That's right. You know, I think all these things like
S1: Bible reading and prayer and learning about God, we can
S1: make them heavy and not fun. But these are just, uh,
S1: you know, I just haven't seen that my kids haven't
S1: felt that way. Um, I think they felt very refreshing
S1: and hopeful to them rather than, um, restrictive. You know,
S1: hopefully we don't make prayer time miserable for everybody, but
S1: we more say, hey, this is God listens to us.
S1: Isn't that amazing that we get to pray to God? Um,
S1: so so how we position it really can matter rather than, oh,
S1: this is something we have to do every day. Everybody
S1: yelling at everybody to get to the table so that we.
S6: Can do this.
S1: Miserable thing. We, you know, we want to we want
S1: to really say, hey, this is this is how we
S1: live life. And the life that's shown to us in
S1: God's Word is a good, good life. And and hopefully
S1: they'll they'll take that from our homes.
S5: Yeah.
S4: You know, sometimes kids who are raised in what we
S4: might call rock solid Christian home.
S2: Thanks for listening.
S4: Struggle. You know, with today's cultural pressures and and they
S4: sometimes walk away from the faith. What encouragement do you
S4: have for these parents?
S1: Yeah, I think for all of us. Um, this is
S1: the hard thing about the teen years. You know, a
S1: lot of kids start saying, um, even in just an
S1: effort to distinguish themselves from us. I'm not sure I
S1: believe this stuff. I, I'm not sure I agree with
S1: you on that one. I think we can kind of
S1: take comfort from the fact that that's that's pretty normal. Um,
S1: and that's actually a part of their faith becoming their own.
S1: They have to sometimes say, I'm not sure what I
S1: believe so that they can figure out what they believe. Um,
S1: and so one thing I always like to kind of
S1: say is be curious about their doubts again, rather than
S1: just be so fearful that you have to answer all
S1: their questions. And our teens may come to us with
S1: questions we don't know how to answer. They might have
S1: really good questions about the faith that they're really good
S1: doubts they're having. And I always say it's good to
S1: say when you don't know, to just say, I don't
S1: know the answer to that. That's a really good question.
S1: Maybe we should call the pastor in your church and
S1: ask that question to them or find help together. I
S1: think as parents, we don't have to feel like we
S1: have all the answers for for their questions, but to
S1: assure them we are always available to have the conversation
S1: with them along the way. And I'd rather them doubt
S1: with me and be honest with me about their doubts
S1: than be hiding them and not tell me about what
S1: they're what they're going through. But I would also just say,
S1: I've watched enough kids, and I've watched enough adults who
S1: grew up in Christian homes and walked away from it
S1: all for a season. And then I've seen them come back,
S1: you know, once, once they kind of, you know, like
S1: the prodigal son, um, they ran away far away from
S1: the things of God. But then they came back. And
S1: I really attribute that to a lot of prayers of parents.
S1: I our prayers matter that we cry out to God
S1: and ask for him to save. So I think we
S1: can be hopeful because God is a saving God, and
S1: he is a God who goes after the lost and
S1: the one who runs away. He goes after. Um, and
S1: so we can keep praying and we can keep, um,
S1: you know, loving our child whether they're 15 and dealing
S1: with doubts or they're 50 and dealing with doubts. Hopefully
S1: we can be that voice that keeps saying to them,
S1: I love you and I'm praying for you. And I'm
S1: going to keep hoping one day you'll come back to faith.
S1: And I think, I think we can be hopeful our
S1: whole lives that they will.
S4: And like the prodigal son's father, he kept the farm going.
S4: So when he came home, there was a place to
S4: come home to.
S5: Yeah.
S6: That's right.
S1: And he kept looking. He kept looking for him to
S1: come home.
S4: That's right. Yeah. Keep your own faith growing. You know,
S4: even though it's a great disappointment, of course, when your
S4: kids tend to walk away, uh, sometimes for a season
S4: and sometimes we don't see them come back, but we
S4: have to give them the same freedom God gave his
S4: first two children, and they did wrong.
S5: You know. So.
S4: All right. Well, this has been a great conversation and
S4: it's an excellent book. And I hope that our listeners, uh, will, uh,
S4: will get it and will read it and, uh, together,
S4: if you have a husband and wife together, you'll read
S4: it together. Or if you're a single mom, uh, I
S4: hope you'll read it. Uh, it's going to help you.
S4: And let's face it, the teenage years are hard, and
S4: so we need all the help we can get. So
S4: thanks for being with us today, Melissa.
S1: Oh, well, thanks for having me. I told you earlier, um,
S1: I read your book, The Five Love Languages, years ago,
S1: so it's a joy to get to be with you today.
S1: And I credit that book to really being such a
S1: blessing in my marriage and actually in my parenting. It's
S1: been huge. Um, it's been hugely helpful for how I
S1: love people, especially my husband, definitely my children, but even
S1: friends and family members, it's so it's such a joy
S1: to get to talk with you today.
S4: Well that's great. I'm always glad to hear good reports.
S4: All authors are and I think you're going to hear
S4: some good reports on this book that you've written. So
S4: God bless.
S1: Thanks so much.
S3: Melissa Krueger's book again, is parenting with Hope Raising Teens
S3: for Christ in a Secular Age? We have it linked
S3: at the website. Building relationships us again go to building relationships.us.
S4: And next week some say it's an epidemic loneliness.
S2: Hear how Pastor Steve DeWitt allowed loneliness to be a
S2: guide in his life in one week. Our thanks to
S2: Janice backing and Steve Wick for their work behind the scenes.
S2: Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of
S2: Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of
S2: Moody Bible and.