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S1: Hey, it's Diana super Di and so glad you've tuned

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S1: in to the Carl and Crew show cast. You know,

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S1: we air live weekday mornings, 5 to 9 central. For

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S1: all the great ways to listen, just head to Carl

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S1: and crew for.

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S2: Coming to you live from the call of Hope studio.

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S2: This is Carl and crew.

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S3: I've been terrified a few times in my life. Okay, yeah,

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S3: I've been terrified a few times. First off, heights are

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S3: not my thing.

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S4: No, I know you don't like heights. Have you always.

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S5: Have that in common?

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S4: You always not liked heights?

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S3: I yeah, I think from my earliest memory.

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S4: Yeah, sure.

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S3: Yeah. I mean, I didn't know Henry was with me.

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S5: Yeah, he's not a big heights guy, and he's he's tall,

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S5: so he's already pretty high up, but he does not

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S5: like heights.

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S3: You know, my son being six, seven, six, eight, whatever

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S3: he is, six, eight and a quarter. Actually, he's he's

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S3: death on railings way up in my nice residential towers

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S3: because he's like, dad, these rails are so low. Yeah,

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S3: he says, that would be gravity for us tall guys

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S3: like Henry. He's like, it's brutal because you get up

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S3: there and you're like, man, this railing is actually like

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S3: below midway on my body and all my weights above it.

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S5: Definitely not going to prevent me from falling if I'm

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S5: too close.

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S3: No. It's crazy. So I've been yeah, I've had a

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S3: I've had a few times when I've been scared to death. Uh,

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S3: a couple of them have been on the ocean commercial

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S3: fish for eight seasons in Alaska. One of them was

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S3: a herring fishery where we were doing what's called kelping.

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S3: Now they've since outlawed kelping. So kelping is when you

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S3: go into the shallows of different bays, and there's all

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S3: this kelp along the bottom of the ocean bed, and

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S3: that's where the hearing will come and lay their eggs

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S3: and their super sticky. And they stick to that kelp.

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S3: And it's a delicacy in Japan. So having herring row

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S3: on kelp is a delicacy. But salt to it. And

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S3: I've tried it and I've maybe I didn't have enough salt,

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S3: but boy, it wasn't good to my palate. Um, that's

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S3: one exotic food I couldn't stomach real well.

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S4: Delicacies are are hard. I feel like every time I

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S4: hear the word delicacy, it's just code for. You're not

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S4: gonna like that.

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S5: Okay, Jonathan.

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S3: I think he might be onto something.

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S5: I mean, Jonathan prefers, I think, more like.

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S3: Oh, simple.

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S5: Food. Simple, simple.

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S4: Food. Um, definitely burger and fries. I'd. I'll branch out, but,

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S4: you know, I like I'll branch out to, like, Hispanic food.

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S4: Asian food, but, like, simple. Yeah, a taco, a burrito,

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S4: you know, nice chicken and rice, that kind of thing.

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S3: Yeah, I'm with you.

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S4: I'm not getting herring on kelp.

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S3: So I've got this little open skiff, and that's what

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S3: you have to kind of harvest the kelp with open skiff,

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S3: which is was about 22 foot long. Skiff. And I

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S3: had a big old 70 horsepower Evinrude. Pretty strong motor

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S3: on it for that size skiff. Pretty good. And the

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S3: storm in Dillingham that summer was blowing so incredibly hard.

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S3: Like steady winds, 60 miles an hour, gusting to 70.

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S3: And when you're young. You throw caution to the wind.

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S3: And I looked at my captain, and he was tied

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S3: up in a bigger boat. And there were a ton

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S3: of boats in this little safe harbor. And so there

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S3: were no waves in the safe harbor. And I thought

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S3: I might venture out. I'm not sure that this I'm

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S3: not sure that this storm, even though it's coming pretty strong,

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S3: it's coming off the coast. I don't know how. I

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S3: don't know how really big the waves might be out there.

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S3: I might give it a go. So I told Marvin,

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S3: I said, I'm going to give it a go. So

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S3: I threw in my deckhand with me and I said,

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S3: let's go. Let's go get some kelp. And we can't

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S3: sit here. We're not going to make any money. He said,

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S3: are you sure? I'm like, yeah, we're going to go

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S3: venture out. The minute we got outside of the neck

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S3: of the bay, the waves were absolutely humongous. So. Or

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S3: climb in this, in this skiff, these waves were climbing them.

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S3: And then we'd come down the back end of that

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S3: swell that had a little bit of a breaker at

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S3: the top of it. Were taking really cold, icy winter

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S3: water over the bow of the skiff. We got all

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S3: our rain slickers on, but man, it is freezing cold.

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S3: And as I got a little bit further now I'm committed.

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S3: I've got to. I've got to keep my bow into

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S3: the waves. And I was out there about five minutes,

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S3: and I'm realizing this is the stupidest thing on the planet.

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S3: What in the world am I doing? And so I'm

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S3: yelling at dad can get your life preserver on. And

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S3: he's scrambling now because he's like, this guy driving this

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S3: ship doesn't know what he's doing.

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S5: Oh, no.

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S3: And I said keep. We had two fuel tanks. And

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S3: fuel tanks provide some buoyancy. So I said, get a

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S3: hand on a fuel tank in case we go under.

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S3: I said, I'm going to get us back. Getting back

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S3: was worse than going out, because now you got to

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S3: ride these waves like you're surfing back into the safe harbor.

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S5: Oh, wow. That sounds like sea sickness.

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S3: Well, it was more. It was even. It was seasickness.

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S3: If you kind of got a propensity that way. But

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S3: it was even worse than that, because all you have

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S3: to do is ride one of these waves. If you've

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S3: seen any of these boat images on YouTube or something

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S3: where they're riding down these waves, if if you aren't

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S3: going fast enough, the wave will get the stern of

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S3: your boat. Flip that thing upside down like bam! Like that.

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S3: So praise God I'm. I'm not a follower of Jesus

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S3: at this point, but I'm praying, God, get me out

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S3: of this mess. You know, the old foxhole prayers, man

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S3: for the lost guys. And I'm saying, God, get me

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S3: out of this mess. We ultimately rode that last wave

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S3: into Safe Harbor, and I came back and Marvin, my

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S3: seat captain, looked at me. He goes, how was it

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S3: out there? And I said, we nearly died. And I'm

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S3: not exaggerating.

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S4: That doesn't sound like it.

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S5: That does sound terrifying.

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S3: It was not good. So Jesus made his disciples get

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S3: into the boat. I love that line. He made his

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S3: disciples get into the boat. It's 45th verse of the

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S3: sixth chapter of Mark, and they go out onto the

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S3: Sea of Galilee in the waves were kicking in short order. now.

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S3: Did Jesus force his guys to get into a boat,

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S3: knowing that there was going to be a storm?

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S5: Of course.

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S3: He did. Isn't that great news?

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S5: Didn't catch him by surprise.

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S3: Isn't that the god of the.

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S5: Storm after.

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S3: All? Isn't that just super a blast? Yeah, just a

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S3: real blast. So there's an interesting, though order of things

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S3: that go down. And if you know the story out

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S3: of Mark six, the waves were ultimately stilled, but not

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S3: before Jesus stood on those waves, looked at his disciples,

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S3: and he said, don't be afraid. I'm with you. Isn't

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S3: that interesting? Then he got into the boat and the

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S3: waves were stilled. And I think a lot of us

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S3: hope that in our relationship with God, there won't be waves. Yeah,

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S3: nobody wants them.

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S4: Yeah. sometimes it's kind of even the expectation. We expect

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S4: to not have any waves.

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S3: Yes. And I think we falsely build the gospel sometimes

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S3: that way. Yeah, man, the waves of this world, they're

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S3: going to diminish greatly. What if I told you the

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S3: waves of this world might increase greatly? What if I

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S3: told you Jesus might tell you, get in a boat

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S3: knowing good and well. There's going to be some heart

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S3: stopping waves coming your way. I know that's tough to hear,

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S3: but it's just the reality. But here's the hope in

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S3: the entire reality of this narrative of Mark six, the

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S3: gospel is not escape from storms, but Christ's presence in them.

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S3: Isn't that hopeful?

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S5: It is. It is because knowing that there's nothing that

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S5: you could possibly go through, that he won't be there

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S5: with you.

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S3: Yeah. It's just it's just an awe inspiring thing.

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S2: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl

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S2: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.

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S3: Have you ever prayed for the storm to stop? It didn't.

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S3: But you saw Christ's presence in the storm. Some of

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S3: you might even be having some questions about what do

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S3: I do when I feel like, yeah, the storms of life,

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S3: they're raging and I don't know how to cry out

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S3: to God in this situation. That can be breathtaking, can't it, Ali?

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S5: It can. Because, you know, I think seasons in the

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S5: storm is where you can most question, okay, God does this.

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S5: Does this really work? That's when your faith is tested.

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S5: And we know that from when we read in Matthew

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S5: seven about the house that's built on either the firm

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S5: foundation or it's built on the sand, the storm is

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S5: always what tests our faith.

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S3: For sure. The storm always tests our faith.

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S4: You know, I think of a couple years ago, uh,

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S4: my wife and I were living in an apartment in

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S4: a suburb close to Chicago, And we had some mold

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S4: stuff in our apartment. It was behind the walls and

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S4: my wife was getting sick by it. And so we

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S4: were trying to get it handled with our with our complex.

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S4: And they refused us. They they told us, you know,

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S4: we're not going to take these walls down because you

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S4: can't prove that there's mold. But we couldn't prove that

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S4: there was mold without the walls coming down. And my

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S4: wife continued to get sick, and we prayed and we

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S4: asked God for help. And it didn't turn out the

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S4: way we wanted. We had to move out of the

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S4: apartment in 24 hours time without a new place, bought

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S4: a place that a place that we were looking to buy,

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S4: that we had come under an agreement, had slipped out

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S4: from under our fingers in just a couple of days

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S4: after setting the agreement, and we were both so distraught

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S4: and upset. But God met us in the midst of

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S4: that because we prayed and we said, God, we thought

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S4: you were calling us to this place, and it's just

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S4: not working out. God, what are you doing? But he

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S4: took care of us. He gave us friends and family.

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S4: A community of brothers and sisters in Christ that were

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S4: there with us, that helped us, that saw us through

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S4: the time. And it was only by being with those

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S4: people that we found the place that we're in now,

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S4: that we've been in for three years, that God has

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S4: seen us in, and we couldn't have made it through

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S4: without him. I think in that time, in the midst

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S4: of all the feelings and the sickness that my wife had,

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S4: we were like distraught. Without him, we couldn't have made

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S4: it without him. Even though the storm didn't end when

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S4: we would have liked it to.

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S3: Yeah, that's really that's reality, man. I remember that season

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S3: you guys were going through.

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S4: Oh, it was so hard.

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S3: Forever ago, you know, pretty recent. Steven in Akron, Ohio.

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S3: What do you say, Steven?

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S6: Man, um, God is so gracious. I lost sight in

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S6: my right eye in 2016 due to retinopathy, treat diabetes,

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S6: and at the time, I couldn't even look over my

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S6: right shoulder and asked the Lord, you know who's going

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S6: to love me? How am I going to find a wife?

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S6: And many years later he sent me a loving wife. Um,

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S6: and we got married last month, and, gosh, just so

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S6: gracious man. So I just wanted to share that with

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S6: somebody that even in the midst of a storm, God.

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S6: Still there with you.

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S3: That's a beautiful practical story, Stephen. Boom, brother. That's why

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S3: we call you the boom crew right here. It can

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S3: feel unnerving, right?

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S5: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Because, I mean, think about just the

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S5: times that you've been in a physical storm, whether you,

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S5: you know, live through a, like you talked about an

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S5: earthquake or, or even just like, have you ever driven

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S5: through a terrible storm? I remember driving through a snowstorm

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S5: where all of a sudden visibility went to zero, or

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S5: driving through fog or anything, where all of a sudden

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S5: you do not know what is right in front of you.

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S5: And it is the most disorienting, terrifying feeling of, I

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S5: don't know where is a safe place to step. I

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S5: don't know what I'm doing here, and that's when we

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S5: see God meet us with his presence.

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S3: It's a powerful thing.

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S2: Your shot of hope to help you through the day.

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S2: This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

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S3: You prayed for the storm to stop. It didn't, but

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S3: you found Christ's presence in it. It can be a

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S3: powerful thing. Ed in Florida. What do you say, Ed?

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S7: Well, we went through a hurricane not too many years ago,

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S7: and we went through the eye of the actual eye

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S7: of the hurricane, and the whole house shook. I held

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S7: my bride. Oh.

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S3: Wow.

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S7: In my arms. Because I really thought we were going

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S7: to die. And.

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S3: Yeah. All right.

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S7: I said, hey, worst case is is, well, we'll see

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S7: each other in heaven. I prayed, I said, Lord, whatever

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S7: your will is. All of a sudden it's. I'm telling you,

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S7: it stopped. We went through. And then later on, uh,

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S7: the news said that the back half of the eye

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S7: wall collapsed. I know it was Yahweh. I know it.

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S3: That's a cool story, editor.

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S7: And he took me through the storm.

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S3: Yeah, he did man. And here's what's true about what

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S3: you just said. Boom, brother. This is why we call

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S3: you the boom crew. You know, Ed had this conversation

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S3: with his wife while the thing was raging.

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S5: Oh, yeah.

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S4: Absolutely. They're sitting there bracing for the worst man. And

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S4: it's not like afterwards it was all just. Okay, the

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S4: storm is over. We'll go back to living our normal lives.

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S4: There was. There's cleanup in that. There's there's a lot

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S4: of damage done. But God was with him in that, too.

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S3: Powerful. Chris in Nashville, Tennessee. What do you say, Chris?

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S8: Hey. Um, so a few years ago, my my wife

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S8: and I were trying to get back to the mission

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S8: field during Covid. It was a disaster. We just couldn't

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S8: get back, and we were going through a lot of depression,

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S8: and we found out we were going to have a

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S8: baby in the middle of it, and it was so exciting,

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S8: and we thought maybe God was starting something new. Um,

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S8: and literally, um, two months later, we lost the baby. Um,

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S8: and it was that crushing weight of hope. Um, hope

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S8: was deferred, and now Hope felt like it was destroyed. Um, and, uh,

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S8: I went into a season of dark depression for a while,

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S8: and I kept crying out to the Lord, crying out

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S8: to the Lord and never hearing anything, um, and just

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S8: feeling that silence. Um. And one day I, uh, I

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S8: opened the word. It was just nothing every day. But

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S8: this one day, I opened the word, and it was

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S8: just staring at the words and, um, out of nowhere,

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S8: like the unmistakable sense of of God's voice, which I

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S8: hadn't had for months, I heard I'm quiet because I'm listening.

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S3: Whoa!

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S8: And it just broke. It just broke me. Um, it

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S8: just shattered me, and and and it became the catalyst

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S8: that led me back to to where I needed to be.

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S3: I'm quiet because I'm listening.

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S5: Wow.

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S3: Boom! Brother.

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S4: That's so good.

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S3: I don't know that I've ever heard that before in

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S3: all my years of pastoring.

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S4: I really like that because I feel like sometimes we all,

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S4: we think that hearing the word from God is going

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S4: to be the thing that's the most comforting. But sometimes

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S4: we just need to know that God's listening to us,

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S4: and he wants to hear us cry out in our pain,

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S4: because he wants us to be able to express that

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S4: to him.

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S3: What a profound observation Chris has. What a profound observation.

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S3: I'm quiet because I'm listening, and all you have to

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S3: do is look at a good mom or dad who

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S3: sits down and you're pouring out your heart, pouring it out,

316
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S3: pouring it out. And they're just sitting there not responding,

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S3: but they're there.

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S5: Yeah.

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S3: Who? On this Freedom Friday, we're watching God work in storms.

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S3: And we're also watching God peel back layers in our

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S3: life that he wants to heal. And coming up in

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S3: a little bit, we're going to peel back some layers

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S3: and watch God do some healing so that we can

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S3: get a rock to stand on here.

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S2: Standing on the rock each and every day. You're listening

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S2: to Carl and crew.

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S3: You know. Sometimes we settle for too little here at

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S3: Carl and crew. I think one of our most important

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S3: things that we do, especially on Freedom Fridays, help people. See, now,

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S3: let's not stop short of the mark. And I got

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S3: a I got a dear friend. I'm not going to

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S3: say his name who competed in the Iditarod Trail Race

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S3: the same year that I did. We were both 18,

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S3: and frankly, he was way tougher than me. He was

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S3: a tough dude, man. Yeah, I mean, he was a

336
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S3: tough guy, physically very strong man. Had a good dog team.

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S3: It was about 200 miles into the race, and he

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S3: got into a little bit of challenging weather, and he'd

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S3: gotten off pace from the bulk of the the competitors

340
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S3: in the Iditarod. It's 1100 mile dog sled race from

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S3: Anchorage to Nome. So he's about 200 miles into this thing.

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S3: He came up to a checkpoint called Rainy Pass. And

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S3: in Rainy Pass, you're up at elevation and there's you

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S3: can only obviously fly into most of these locations. So

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S3: it was a fly in location, but there was just

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S3: one guy that It, stepped out of a Super Cub,

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S3: walked over to him, looked at his team, and he

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S3: just began talking to him, saying, man, this team looks tired.

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S3: I don't know if you're going to make it. He said, really?

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S3: He goes, yeah, if I were you, I'd drop out

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S3: of this race.

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S9: Oh, boy. Wow.

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S1: Okay, then.

354
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S3: And he talked my buddy to drop out of the race.

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S4: Wow. Just from that conversation.

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S5: Yes.

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S3: Yeah, but here's here's the point, guys. That has lived

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S3: with him for over 40 years. Over 40 years. He

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S3: told me one time when I was with him, he says, man,

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S3: I wish I hadn't let that guy talk me out

361
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S3: of that race. He said my team was tired, but

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S3: they just needed a good meal. They just they just

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S3: needed a little bit of massage on their hindquarters. They

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S3: were ready to go. He said, I quit with a

365
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S3: team that had all the juice I needed to get

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S3: me to. No, I said, I know you did, Mark,

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S3: and I'm sorry. You know what? Some of you have

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S3: been getting talked out of the race. Yep. You've been

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S3: getting talked out of the race. You've heard a voice

370
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S3: that dropped in on you, and it's Satan and his demons.

371
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S3: You know what he's saying to you? Yeah. You're never

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S3: going to win. You're tired. You don't have the resources

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S3: to get you further down the trail. Or he says

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S3: to you, this area of your life, you'll never get

375
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S3: victory in that. And you're not off the race course,

376
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S3: but you've settled for way too little. And for some

377
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S3: of you, you live with a certain amount of regret.

378
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S3: Why have I lived this many years with these things

379
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S3: in my life? Hiding in the shadows. Holding me down.

380
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S3: And I'm telling you today you're listening to the wrong voice.

381
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S3: If you can fog a mirror and you reach down.

382
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S3: You got a pulse. And you do. God's not done

383
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S3: with you. God is not done with you.

384
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S2: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl

385
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S2: and crew.

386
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S3: It's Carl and crew. Coming up, if you look at history,

387
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S3: you get a glimpse of what made the church healthy,

388
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S3: what made individuals healthy. And there's some of you that

389
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S3: feel like, what are the couple of those key things

390
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S3: that I can do to see this life of mine

391
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S3: turned around to get some wins under the belt, to

392
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S3: not just be Christian in name only. It's Freedom Friday,

393
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S3: and let's talk it coming up.

394
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S2: This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

395
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S3: It's Freedom Friday, and one of the things that God's

396
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S3: been doing here with Carl and crew is really spiking

397
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S3: in featuring what is faith? We tackle a lot here

398
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S3: that a lot of you pray for your kids that

399
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S3: were raised in church. It's an epidemic, especially post-pandemic, kids

400
00:21:48,980 --> 00:21:50,940
S3: that have been raised in church but have left the church,

401
00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:53,300
S3: and we're oftentimes praying that they'd get back in church.

402
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:56,340
S3: Maybe the prayer really needs to be God. Get them

403
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S3: found in Jesus Christ. And we want to go after

404
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S3: that a little bit today. Paul Goodacre is with me

405
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S3: right now. Paul, what do you think about that? When

406
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S3: Jesus says, many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, many.

407
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S3: That word. Many. And he's going to say, I never

408
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S3: knew you. That can stop you in your tracks, can it, Paul?

409
00:22:14,020 --> 00:22:16,859
S10: Yeah, it sure can. You know, it's a it's a

410
00:22:16,859 --> 00:22:21,300
S10: real warning not to be complacent or to presume, but

411
00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:24,659
S10: to really force us to ask ourselves, do I really

412
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S10: know and trust the Lord, or is this just a

413
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:30,690
S10: thing I talk about a sort of hat I where

414
00:22:30,730 --> 00:22:33,530
S10: because it helps me fit in. And you know, the

415
00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:35,490
S10: one of the things that I think we're seeing in

416
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S10: the younger generation is they're not they're not content to

417
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S10: just have that surface level Christianity. They're more comfortable leaving

418
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S10: it behind, which is in some ways a bad thing.

419
00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:48,889
S10: But in other ways it's an opportunity because the faith's

420
00:22:48,890 --> 00:22:50,570
S10: going to be a real thing if you embrace it.

421
00:22:50,609 --> 00:22:53,050
S10: It's not just going to be a social convention, right?

422
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S3: Yeah. No, it's so true. Doctor Paul Goodacre is our

423
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S3: guest right now. Paul, I got to tell you, you've

424
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S3: done a lot of history study, so I want to

425
00:23:00,250 --> 00:23:02,850
S3: lean into this. I mean, he's an author, and we're

426
00:23:02,850 --> 00:23:04,770
S3: going to feature a book here in just a moment.

427
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S3: And a historian, I think the thing that encourages me

428
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S3: right now, Paul, is that we've got a lot of

429
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S3: people really spike in gospel of repentance. And as we

430
00:23:15,330 --> 00:23:19,010
S3: look back at the Great Awakenings, we didn't see an

431
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S3: easy believism. We didn't see a raise your hand in

432
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S3: the air. And I'm not saying people that raise their

433
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S3: hand and they aren't aren't truly born again in that moment,

434
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S3: but many aren't. But what we saw was a call

435
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S3: to repentance. Could you put flesh to that? Is that true?

436
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S3: And what does that mean for us today?

437
00:23:34,510 --> 00:23:37,310
S10: That's exactly right. The sort of just make a quick decision,

438
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:40,430
S10: say a few words. Boom. That's it. That's what faith is.

439
00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:43,869
S10: I think historically when there's been renewal movements in the church,

440
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S10: including the Great Awakenings, there's been a real serious, long,

441
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S10: hard look at our need for a savior that we

442
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:55,350
S10: can't do it on our own, that we need God

443
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:57,950
S10: to do for us what we can't do for ourselves.

444
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S10: And repentance is simply, you know, it's a word that

445
00:24:01,030 --> 00:24:04,230
S10: kind of becomes familiar, but it just means turning, turning

446
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:07,910
S10: from a life centered around ourself and around our own

447
00:24:07,950 --> 00:24:12,670
S10: selfish desires and our focus on how I look and

448
00:24:12,670 --> 00:24:14,990
S10: what people think of me. I turn from our sinful

449
00:24:14,990 --> 00:24:19,550
S10: ways to Christ, not just an intellectual belief in Christ,

450
00:24:19,550 --> 00:24:22,710
S10: but a trust in Christ and His person and his

451
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:26,070
S10: work for our salvation. And I think you're exactly right

452
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:31,020
S10: that Repentance has marked these revivals. Jonathan Edwards is the

453
00:24:31,020 --> 00:24:34,740
S10: great theologian of the first Great Awakening in America, in

454
00:24:34,780 --> 00:24:37,020
S10: the British colonies. And he said, you can tell if

455
00:24:37,020 --> 00:24:39,820
S10: it's a real work of the spirit, if there's humility.

456
00:24:39,820 --> 00:24:43,460
S10: So people think less of themselves and high esteem of Christ.

457
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:45,179
S10: They think more of who Jesus is.

458
00:24:45,619 --> 00:24:49,540
S3: Love it. Doctor Paul Goodacre is our guest right now. Paul,

459
00:24:49,540 --> 00:24:52,820
S3: I want to go after this a little bit more. The, um,

460
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:57,859
S3: the history of awakenings revival. What are some of the

461
00:24:57,859 --> 00:25:02,380
S3: key elements that you saw in history that we saw

462
00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:06,700
S3: in history that we can bring forward to today? What

463
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:09,899
S3: are the healthy pieces? I know that there was some

464
00:25:10,060 --> 00:25:13,020
S3: legalisms that were reckless. I get all that. I was

465
00:25:13,020 --> 00:25:15,540
S3: raised in some of that. But what's the healthy stuff

466
00:25:15,540 --> 00:25:16,899
S3: that we can bring forward?

467
00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:19,900
S10: You know, Edwards talks about this because at the time

468
00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:22,820
S10: we're talking 1700s, there were plenty of people who worried

469
00:25:22,859 --> 00:25:25,780
S10: about just what you were saying, right? Is this just

470
00:25:25,780 --> 00:25:29,129
S10: a bunch of noise or excitement? Or aren't there excesses,

471
00:25:29,130 --> 00:25:32,250
S10: people going too far? And of course that's true. You

472
00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:34,530
S10: see that? And that doesn't mean that God's not doing

473
00:25:34,530 --> 00:25:37,290
S10: a work. It doesn't disqualify, you know, the revival from

474
00:25:37,290 --> 00:25:39,930
S10: being a work of God. I think you can tell

475
00:25:40,090 --> 00:25:42,330
S10: that it's something real and that God's doing something. If

476
00:25:42,330 --> 00:25:44,730
S10: you see a few things, one is it's about Christ,

477
00:25:44,770 --> 00:25:48,410
S10: not about a person or a personality, not about some

478
00:25:48,410 --> 00:25:52,050
S10: new teaching. But it all comes back to Jesus. And

479
00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:55,010
S10: I think another thing, and this has always been underneath

480
00:25:55,050 --> 00:25:58,650
S10: revival is prayer. If you want to see renewal in

481
00:25:58,650 --> 00:26:02,130
S10: your community, then you got to pray. This is not

482
00:26:02,130 --> 00:26:06,170
S10: something we manufacture or we make happen. It's something that

483
00:26:06,170 --> 00:26:09,330
S10: God does. And so we are called to be part

484
00:26:09,330 --> 00:26:12,410
S10: of that. But the first and primary way we're going

485
00:26:12,410 --> 00:26:14,210
S10: to be part of that is through our prayer.

486
00:26:14,250 --> 00:26:18,250
S3: Yeah. I you've written also practicing life together a common

487
00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:22,090
S3: rule for Christian growth. A lot of people say, And

488
00:26:22,090 --> 00:26:24,369
S3: I've done this myself as a pastor. I remember the

489
00:26:24,369 --> 00:26:27,990
S3: early years My wife was really. I've been married 38 years.

490
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:30,270
S3: My wife was big on prayer and I would often

491
00:26:30,270 --> 00:26:32,870
S3: say to her, well, I'm praying and the elders are praying.

492
00:26:33,550 --> 00:26:36,550
S3: We began to make a move toward getting the elders

493
00:26:36,550 --> 00:26:39,909
S3: together in our home, at a church that just exploded

494
00:26:39,910 --> 00:26:44,389
S3: in growth. And here's what I draw a direct link to. Yes,

495
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:48,790
S3: preaching flew out of that. Yes, worship. Transcendent worship was

496
00:26:48,790 --> 00:26:51,870
S3: part of what birthed this. But if I draw a string,

497
00:26:51,910 --> 00:26:54,830
S3: a connector between this little mini awakening I was a

498
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:58,630
S3: part of twice in my life, you can't separate it

499
00:26:58,630 --> 00:27:01,190
S3: from the power of corporate prayer and a prayer that

500
00:27:01,190 --> 00:27:05,510
S3: permeated the body of Christ. How do we get that going, Paul?

501
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:06,950
S3: Don't you want that, my friend?

502
00:27:07,270 --> 00:27:10,510
S10: I do, and that's one of the gifts of common prayer.

503
00:27:10,550 --> 00:27:12,870
S10: Prayer that we do together, right? Of course we can

504
00:27:12,869 --> 00:27:15,110
S10: pray on our own. And there's a there's a time

505
00:27:15,109 --> 00:27:18,830
S10: and a place for solitude and personal time with the Lord.

506
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:23,540
S10: But why does Christ say in Matthew 18, where 2

507
00:27:23,609 --> 00:27:26,020
S10: or 3 are gathered in my name, there I am

508
00:27:26,020 --> 00:27:30,659
S10: with them. There's something about being united to each other

509
00:27:31,140 --> 00:27:35,340
S10: that brings God's presence to life and where we you

510
00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:38,179
S10: can think of. I think corporate prayer as a way

511
00:27:38,180 --> 00:27:41,780
S10: of bearing one another's burdens and thus fulfilling the law

512
00:27:41,780 --> 00:27:45,740
S10: of Christ. Something special happens when our prayer is not

513
00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:49,700
S10: just a personal thing, but also something that draws us

514
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:51,700
S10: together as the body of Christ.

515
00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:57,139
S3: How do we move that from perfunctory words to something

516
00:27:57,140 --> 00:27:59,900
S3: that's knocking on the windows of heaven? Paul.

517
00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:04,100
S10: I think we start by praying scripture, right? And I

518
00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:07,100
S10: think if you look at the Psalms, which is these

519
00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:11,140
S10: are the prayers that Jesus prayed, if you pray Scripture regularly,

520
00:28:11,140 --> 00:28:15,500
S10: you'll find that not just are you expressing what's going

521
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:17,820
S10: on in your heart to God, but you're actually being

522
00:28:17,859 --> 00:28:21,700
S10: formed to want what God wants and to pray for

523
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,680
S10: what his will is. And so I'm a big fan

524
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,560
S10: of when we get together. You know, there's absolutely a

525
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,879
S10: time for extemporaneous prayer, for just praying from the heart,

526
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,719
S10: but praying Scripture together, literally praying it right, like pulling

527
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,400
S10: out the Bible and praying a psalm together and then

528
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,560
S10: having space for what else is on people's hearts. I

529
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,720
S10: think that over time this really forms and shapes not

530
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,680
S10: just how we pray, but what we long for and

531
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,040
S10: what God will then do through our desires.

532
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,000
S3: Yeah, one of my favorite prayers is the Apostle Paul

533
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,680
S3: in Ephesians one. He's talking about how that you may

534
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,640
S3: have your. The eyes of your soul may understand these

535
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,880
S3: incredible riches that are likened unto the raising of Christ

536
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,480
S3: from the dead. And I gotta tell you, I'm going

537
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,080
S3: to let you know some secret sauce here, boom crew,

538
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,160
S3: about what we do when we introduce the gospel. I

539
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,480
S3: don't talk about the gospel. I read scriptures, and then

540
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,550
S3: we briefly expose anything that might be nuanced there. But

541
00:29:22,550 --> 00:29:25,950
S3: when I prayed, I remember when Pastor Lutzer asked me

542
00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:28,230
S3: to pray at a big prayer gathering at his church

543
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:31,030
S3: when he was pastoring Moody Church. I felt prompted to

544
00:29:31,030 --> 00:29:34,270
S3: just pray that Ephesians one prayer. It's probably 2 or

545
00:29:34,270 --> 00:29:38,030
S3: 3 minutes over the folks. And you know what I found?

546
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:41,990
S3: I found myself having an experience with God, not over

547
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:43,870
S3: the words I was saying, but the words that Paul

548
00:29:43,870 --> 00:29:47,270
S3: was saying 2000 years ago spoken to those people. Is

549
00:29:47,270 --> 00:29:49,670
S3: that kind of what you're driving at here, Paul? And

550
00:29:49,670 --> 00:29:51,950
S3: how can we do that every day? More and more.

551
00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:55,310
S10: That's exactly it. You know, I think doing it every

552
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:58,350
S10: day requires intention, right? Part of the point of the

553
00:29:58,350 --> 00:30:01,550
S10: book is just to say, if I leave my prayer

554
00:30:01,590 --> 00:30:03,510
S10: life up to chance and how I'm feeling on a

555
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:06,470
S10: given day, well, life is busy and it's chaotic and

556
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:09,270
S10: there's lots of distractions. And we've got young kids and

557
00:30:09,270 --> 00:30:12,430
S10: you know how it goes. Yeah. So a rule of life.

558
00:30:12,430 --> 00:30:15,630
S10: It's not about legalism. It's not about perfection. It's just

559
00:30:15,630 --> 00:30:18,790
S10: simply saying, I really intend this to be part of

560
00:30:18,790 --> 00:30:22,020
S10: my life, I want part of my day to day life,

561
00:30:22,380 --> 00:30:25,220
S10: part of my week to week life. To include these

562
00:30:25,220 --> 00:30:28,900
S10: kinds of practices, some for myself and some with other Christians.

563
00:30:29,060 --> 00:30:32,500
S10: And it's just a way of realizing, recognizing that if

564
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:35,020
S10: I'm not intentional, if I just leave it up to chance,

565
00:30:35,060 --> 00:30:37,180
S10: guess what? It's going to get squeezed out by other things.

566
00:30:37,220 --> 00:30:40,820
S3: Yeah. Okay. One final shot, because I know a lot

567
00:30:40,820 --> 00:30:43,220
S3: of people are they're making their way back to church,

568
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:46,740
S3: but there's many thousands and thousands listening to you right

569
00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:49,140
S3: now that have been burned by the church or disillusioned

570
00:30:49,140 --> 00:30:51,580
S3: with the church, or never found a friend in the church.

571
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:56,060
S3: But my greater concern, Paul, is the person that's trying

572
00:30:56,060 --> 00:30:59,460
S3: to walk this faith walk alone. I do not believe

573
00:30:59,460 --> 00:31:02,100
S3: you can take hold of the abundant life that Jesus

574
00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:06,020
S3: promises as individuals. Is that too big a statement?

575
00:31:06,460 --> 00:31:09,540
S10: I believe that's definitely true, that the gospel is always personal.

576
00:31:09,860 --> 00:31:13,740
S10: It's always personal, but it's never alone. Look at acts two, right?

577
00:31:13,780 --> 00:31:16,700
S10: You have Pentecost. The Holy Spirit descends on the church.

578
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:20,480
S10: Peter gives this incredible sermon, 3000 are added to their

579
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,880
S10: number and then listen to what happens next. They devote

580
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,880
S10: themselves to the apostles teaching and fellowship, to the breaking

581
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,040
S10: of bread and to prayer. And then just a few

582
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,520
S10: verses later, every day, they continued to meet together in

583
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,360
S10: the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and

584
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,240
S10: ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God. This

585
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,800
S10: is a sign of what it means to come to

586
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,120
S10: faith when the gospel transforms us. What do we see?

587
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,479
S10: We see people sharing fellowship around the table, giving thanks

588
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,320
S10: to God, generously sharing with each other. It's just what

589
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,920
S10: the gospel does to us. And so if you're out

590
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,280
S10: there and you've had a bad experience in church or

591
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,560
S10: in Christian community, I think most of us have had

592
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,000
S10: something like that at some point. Just remember, this is

593
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,400
S10: still who we're we're meant to be. We're meant to

594
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,600
S10: be a people, a holy temple. And the Lord wants

595
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,200
S10: to give you the gift of that kind of fellowship.

596
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,080
S10: And so don't run from it. Find it. Give yourself

597
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,790
S10: to it, and God will use it to grow you power.

598
00:32:18,190 --> 00:32:20,590
S3: Doctor Paul Goodacre has been my guest. He's got a

599
00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:24,190
S3: new book out called Practicing Life Together A Common Rule

600
00:32:24,190 --> 00:32:26,670
S3: for Christian Growth. And I want you to get a copy.

601
00:32:27,030 --> 00:32:29,750
S3: At least peek at this link, guys. And I love

602
00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:32,230
S3: this word we have. It's called abundant. That's the word

603
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:37,150
S3: one word abundant abundant a b u n d a

604
00:32:37,150 --> 00:32:44,430
S3: n t abundant to 800 555 7898 abundant to 800

605
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:47,550
S3: 555 7898.

606
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:51,229
S2: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then

607
00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:55,590
S2: he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Carl

608
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:57,350
S2: and crew on Moody radio.

609
00:32:57,910 --> 00:33:02,110
S3: Housefires rest on us. Yeah, you know God calls us

610
00:33:02,110 --> 00:33:07,230
S3: to come rest on him. The question is, does God

611
00:33:07,230 --> 00:33:10,790
S3: show up in the storms of life? Oftentimes we find

612
00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:14,750
S3: ourselves calling out foxhole prayers. Oh God, I'm in it now.

613
00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:17,740
S3: I was a young man, commercial fishing, and I was

614
00:33:17,740 --> 00:33:19,460
S3: trying to do the math here in the last couple

615
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:22,300
S3: of minutes, I think I was, I think I was 19,

616
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:26,140
S3: I was 19 years old and I got invited by

617
00:33:26,180 --> 00:33:31,780
S3: a sea captain. His name's Marvin. Marvin invited me out.

618
00:33:31,780 --> 00:33:36,060
S3: This is post Iditarod. And so after I completed the Iditarod,

619
00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:40,380
S3: I had plenty of offers to come on different crazy jobs.

620
00:33:40,420 --> 00:33:41,060
S5: Oh, I'm sure.

621
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:42,300
S3: Because guys are thinking.

622
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:44,340
S5: Like, if this guy does that. Yeah.

623
00:33:45,060 --> 00:33:48,020
S3: So they're like, if he can do that. And you know,

624
00:33:48,420 --> 00:33:51,420
S3: I was not a fearless guy at all. As a

625
00:33:51,420 --> 00:33:53,500
S3: matter of fact, I was telling me earlier that I

626
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:56,460
S3: had a still have pretty good fear of heights, which,

627
00:33:56,460 --> 00:33:58,340
S3: by the way, one of the funniest things is when

628
00:33:58,340 --> 00:34:01,620
S3: I went to seminary in Denver. I'm looking ways to

629
00:34:01,660 --> 00:34:05,060
S3: put bread on the table for my family through a

630
00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:07,820
S3: long circumstance of events. My uncle, who owned a bunch

631
00:34:07,820 --> 00:34:11,899
S3: of commercial property in Denver, and he had me do

632
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:16,040
S3: a couple of low rise recall of windows, which is

633
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:21,280
S3: a pretty high tech structural job. And so I did that,

634
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,360
S3: and he had showed me the bid for the job.

635
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,680
S3: And I'm like, I can I'll cut that in half.

636
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,839
S3: It was one of these big international firms that threw

637
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,040
S3: a number at the job. And I'm like, I'll figure

638
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,640
S3: this out. So I figured it out and then I realized, man,

639
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,240
S3: there is money in structural recalling of these high rise buildings.

640
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,760
S3: Low rise, mid-rise, high rise. So, wouldn't you know, Carl,

641
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,000
S3: with the fear of heights, goes out and bids. I

642
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,320
S3: started a company called High and Dry Commercial Waterproofing and I.

643
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,359
S3: So I'm going to seminary. We got two little babies. Uh,

644
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,560
S3: we got a little house whopping 800ft² that I bought

645
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,680
S3: with commercial fishing money. And I started. I tried commercial

646
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,400
S3: waterproofing with a fear of heights.

647
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,120
S5: Sounds like a great plan.

648
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,390
S3: Thank you for the chorus of response there. Uh, first

649
00:35:13,390 --> 00:35:16,710
S3: job I bid is the Silverado Savings Loan building. Anyone

650
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:18,710
S3: that's old enough to remember when that thing was in

651
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:21,110
S3: the news. That was the building that I bid to.

652
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:25,629
S3: It was an RFP request for bids on this thing.

653
00:35:25,630 --> 00:35:28,350
S3: And so I went in and bid the job and

654
00:35:28,350 --> 00:35:31,950
S3: won it. Won the job. Well, the worst thing about

655
00:35:31,950 --> 00:35:34,870
S3: this is, is I've got to go up 30 plus

656
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:39,470
S3: stories on a little cart suspended from two little dinky

657
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:45,870
S3: cables and re structurally recaulked this building, cutting out all

658
00:35:45,870 --> 00:35:52,430
S3: the old silicone methylethylketone hardcore solvent, clean all that up

659
00:35:52,430 --> 00:35:57,509
S3: and then squirt in new silicone. What a dumb thing

660
00:35:57,550 --> 00:35:59,190
S3: to do when you got a fear of heights.

661
00:35:59,469 --> 00:36:00,190
S5: I mean.

662
00:36:01,350 --> 00:36:02,430
S4: How long was that job?

663
00:36:03,390 --> 00:36:05,509
S3: Oh, it was it was a two month job. And

664
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:08,310
S3: we we did really well on that job.

665
00:36:08,350 --> 00:36:09,230
S4: I'm sure you did.

666
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:12,580
S3: We did really well, but I almost, you know, had

667
00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:15,580
S3: to have a heart transplant one day. I'm up on

668
00:36:15,580 --> 00:36:20,020
S3: the side of the building and I my great idea is, well,

669
00:36:20,020 --> 00:36:22,739
S3: let's get a banner on the side of this cart

670
00:36:22,739 --> 00:36:26,540
S3: that advertises. So I went and got this custom built banner,

671
00:36:26,540 --> 00:36:29,220
S3: high and dry, commercial waterproof, and our number on that thing,

672
00:36:29,739 --> 00:36:33,900
S3: and I zip tied it to the to the cart.

673
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:36,299
S3: So you imagine a window washing cart, right. You've seen

674
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:36,820
S3: those things.

675
00:36:36,860 --> 00:36:37,460
S5: Yes.

676
00:36:38,060 --> 00:36:43,299
S3: Here's the problem, Carl. When you get a banner that

677
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:50,620
S3: has no wind holes cut into it, it becomes a sail. Okay?

678
00:36:51,380 --> 00:36:57,700
S3: It catches wind really well. So we're up probably 15

679
00:36:57,700 --> 00:37:02,220
S3: stories and we're working away. And I'm not looking down. My,

680
00:37:02,260 --> 00:37:05,620
S3: my rule was look straight at the window. Just pretend

681
00:37:05,620 --> 00:37:07,859
S3: you're on the ground. Look straight at the window in

682
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:10,260
S3: front of you. And that's how I did that job

683
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,560
S3: that summer. Crazy.

684
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,360
S4: That's insane.

685
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,640
S3: I'm sitting here reliving this right now.

686
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,000
S5: Terrified my. With you.

687
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:17,520
S3: My hands.

688
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:18,840
S5: I'll stay on the ground.

689
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,200
S3: And then here it comes. Here comes the great Denver, Colorado.

690
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,759
S3: Gust of wind. And the first one hit. And they

691
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,040
S3: kind of pulled us a little bit away from the building.

692
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,040
S3: And then we got bumpers on the cart. We came

693
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,480
S3: back in and hit the mullions. The second gust of

694
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:39,320
S3: wind comes. No joking. Pulled us at least ten feet

695
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,879
S3: away from the building. We're. So we're pulled out like

696
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,840
S3: ten feet away from the building. And here we come.

697
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,799
S3: Terminal velocity back into the building, and it slowed just

698
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,640
S3: a little bit. Thank God we had a little. Another

699
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,440
S3: gust of wind caught that sail and we had a

700
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,759
S3: we hit the building pretty hard, but not enough to

701
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,080
S3: do any damage. And I'm yelling at my partner up

702
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,839
S3: on this rig. I said, cut the sail. We got

703
00:38:08,910 --> 00:38:12,230
S3: our knives out and I'm calling it a sail. Now,

704
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:16,390
S3: forget the advertising. Let's get this stupid thing off of here.

705
00:38:16,430 --> 00:38:20,390
S3: Carl had another dumb idea. One is to go up

706
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:22,109
S3: the side of a building when you got a fear

707
00:38:22,110 --> 00:38:24,790
S3: of heights. Two is to put a sail on your rig.

708
00:38:25,390 --> 00:38:26,029
S4: Yes.

709
00:38:26,070 --> 00:38:27,310
S5: Not a good plan, I think.

710
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:29,870
S4: Yeah, that's just a pretty good, accurate explanation.

711
00:38:31,630 --> 00:38:37,390
S3: Now, that's crazy stuff that we do. But sometimes in

712
00:38:37,390 --> 00:38:41,989
S3: life we find ourselves in situations where we're like, God,

713
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:48,029
S3: are you. Are you here? And so I want to

714
00:38:48,030 --> 00:38:50,750
S3: take you quickly to Togiak, Alaska, because another one of

715
00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:53,830
S3: my crazy ideas that I had. Boy, I'm sitting here

716
00:38:53,830 --> 00:38:55,230
S3: going through my life, going, I got a lot of

717
00:38:55,230 --> 00:38:58,549
S3: crazy ideas. I went out one time out of a

718
00:38:58,550 --> 00:39:02,109
S3: safe harbor in the middle of a horrible storm, and

719
00:39:02,110 --> 00:39:06,509
S3: I took a little skiff 22ft long, 70 horse Evinrude

720
00:39:06,510 --> 00:39:08,529
S3: on the back and went out with a guy and

721
00:39:08,530 --> 00:39:10,690
S3: we were going to go harvest some kelp and herring

722
00:39:10,690 --> 00:39:14,770
S3: roe and it's icy cold waters. The ice has just

723
00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:18,610
S3: come off that inlet, and I got into some waves

724
00:39:18,610 --> 00:39:22,930
S3: that were just absolutely horrible, and they were so big,

725
00:39:22,930 --> 00:39:25,969
S3: so significant that when I, I told, I yelled at

726
00:39:25,969 --> 00:39:28,570
S3: my deckhand, get on your life jacket, hold on to

727
00:39:28,610 --> 00:39:32,450
S3: a fuel tank. And because we might be going under.

728
00:39:33,130 --> 00:39:35,850
S3: And I turned around and I'm riding these waves back

729
00:39:35,850 --> 00:39:38,850
S3: to safe harbor, and it's like you're surfing with a

730
00:39:38,850 --> 00:39:43,649
S3: 22 foot open skiff, aluminum skiff. And if if I

731
00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:46,370
S3: hadn't kept the power to it and rode that wave

732
00:39:46,370 --> 00:39:49,529
S3: with strong engine work down that side of that wave

733
00:39:49,570 --> 00:39:53,770
S3: back into safe harbor, I'd have been in trouble. And

734
00:39:53,810 --> 00:39:56,690
S3: I wasn't a follower of Jesus then, guys, but I

735
00:39:56,690 --> 00:40:01,210
S3: was crying out to God, God, God help me now.

736
00:40:01,210 --> 00:40:06,050
S3: I had no peace in that moment because I didn't

737
00:40:06,050 --> 00:40:10,080
S3: know Christ personally. It was a foxhole prayer yet again.

738
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,560
S3: But here's what I've learned now. Following Jesus for four

739
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,880
S3: plus decades, right? Yeah. Sometimes the storms of life are

740
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,960
S3: going to come and there's no stopping them. Much like

741
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,640
S3: we find in Mark six, Jesus pushed the disciples out,

742
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,680
S3: told them, get in a boat, went out there and

743
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,000
S3: they got in a storm. Jesus knew it was coming,

744
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,839
S3: and it's a phenomenal statement. He just said, I'm here.

745
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,279
S3: Don't be afraid. But the storms hadn't been calmed. They

746
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,399
S3: weren't calmed until he got in the boat. There's some

747
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,960
S3: of you that look at life and you're like, why

748
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:50,239
S3: the wilderness? Why the storms? Why? Why these things come up?

749
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,960
S3: Some are from our own doing. Some are just because

750
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,920
S3: that's the way life rolls, guys. But Christ wants to

751
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,160
S3: be in the presence of those things and do things

752
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,920
S3: that otherwise wouldn't grow in us. And that's the hope

753
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,870
S3: coming up here in a couple of minutes. We got

754
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:06,549
S3: a special guest.

755
00:41:06,590 --> 00:41:08,870
S5: Yeah. Dustin Crowe. He's got a book out called Your

756
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:13,310
S5: Wilderness is Not a Waste God's Purpose in Suffering and Struggles.

757
00:41:13,310 --> 00:41:14,870
S5: He joins us in three minutes.

758
00:41:15,550 --> 00:41:19,550
S2: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl

759
00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:20,110
S2: and crew.

760
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:23,750
S5: Is it true that nothing is wasted in God? You

761
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:26,310
S5: might have heard songs about that, or heard someone say that?

762
00:41:26,310 --> 00:41:29,430
S5: That God doesn't waste anything. But when you're in the

763
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:32,989
S5: middle of the wilderness, a wilderness season of life, you

764
00:41:32,989 --> 00:41:35,750
S5: can feel like, what in the world is the point?

765
00:41:35,790 --> 00:41:37,790
S5: What is this supposed to teach me? What am I

766
00:41:37,830 --> 00:41:40,589
S5: supposed to see here? Dustin Crowe, our guest right now,

767
00:41:40,590 --> 00:41:43,830
S5: he serves as the discipleship pastor at Stone's Crossing Church

768
00:41:43,870 --> 00:41:46,790
S5: outside of Indianapolis. He's got a book out. Your wilderness

769
00:41:46,830 --> 00:41:49,950
S5: is Not a Waste God's Purpose in Suffering and Struggles.

770
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:54,150
S5: What is the journey, Dustin, that brought you to this book?

771
00:41:54,350 --> 00:41:57,910
S5: Or did you just see a need for real education

772
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:59,029
S5: around this topic?

773
00:41:59,070 --> 00:42:01,870
S11: Yeah. Good morning. Yeah. It's both. I've walked through plenty

774
00:42:01,870 --> 00:42:05,010
S11: of wildernesses and um, yeah, I think what I learned

775
00:42:05,010 --> 00:42:08,610
S11: was those suffering times. I never enjoyed it. Never wanted

776
00:42:08,610 --> 00:42:10,730
S11: to be there. And so it's easy to ask, like, God,

777
00:42:10,730 --> 00:42:12,250
S11: I thought this was going to be a better life.

778
00:42:12,250 --> 00:42:15,370
S11: Easier life. And yet those are where I grew. And

779
00:42:15,370 --> 00:42:18,010
S11: then as I started teaching on some of these wilderness stories,

780
00:42:18,010 --> 00:42:20,330
S11: it definitely resonated with people about what do we do?

781
00:42:20,370 --> 00:42:23,729
S11: And disappointment and discouragement and waiting and just a chance

782
00:42:23,730 --> 00:42:25,969
S11: to see how God is at work. So my story,

783
00:42:25,969 --> 00:42:28,650
S11: but also the pastor ministering to other people.

784
00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:31,569
S3: You know, I don't know that I've ever asked a

785
00:42:31,570 --> 00:42:33,810
S3: guest this question because we hit this topic a lot.

786
00:42:33,890 --> 00:42:36,969
S3: It's a good one. I mean, the book of James

787
00:42:36,969 --> 00:42:40,049
S3: starts with it, man. Consider it pure joy, my brothers.

788
00:42:40,050 --> 00:42:42,490
S3: Whenever you face trials of many kinds, you know, testing

789
00:42:42,530 --> 00:42:44,890
S3: of your faith develops perseverance. And he goes on to say,

790
00:42:44,890 --> 00:42:49,210
S3: in this, perseverance is important because you'll become mature and complete,

791
00:42:49,210 --> 00:42:53,930
S3: lacking in nothing. Uh, there's a lot of trials or

792
00:42:53,930 --> 00:42:58,210
S3: wilderness experiences, struggles that people go through, some of which

793
00:42:58,250 --> 00:43:01,890
S3: God leverages, I believe, all of which he can leverage

794
00:43:01,890 --> 00:43:05,600
S3: for our good and our growth spiritually. But are there

795
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,879
S3: certain things that God wants us to learn so that

796
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,399
S3: we don't go back into those again? And how do

797
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,880
S3: we discern those that God wants us to learn from,

798
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,279
S3: to not come back to again, versus those that are

799
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,480
S3: just a byproduct of life that he's going to let

800
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,360
S3: us grow up in.

801
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,160
S11: Yeah, that's a good question. Definitely always wants to teach

802
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,520
S11: us in the wilderness. Um, I think one of those

803
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,319
S11: things is trust. Like I'm teaching through Second Samuel, the

804
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,600
S11: story of David even this week. And and David has

805
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,560
S11: to go through the wilderness two major seasons in his life.

806
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,239
S11: So some of that is just circumstances. But it seems

807
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,520
S11: like the second time when his son Absalom revolts like

808
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,879
S11: David has kind of moved away from a posture of

809
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,359
S11: seeking the Lord depending on the Lord and trusting the Lord, um,

810
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,319
S11: partly because of his his own sin. And so God

811
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,560
S11: uses the wilderness, brings him back into it to remind David,

812
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,080
S11: like you do need me, and you need to seek me,

813
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,640
S11: and you need to trust me. So I think the

814
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,910
S11: when we get out of the wilderness, we often stop

815
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:05,629
S11: trusting in God. We start trusting in self again. We

816
00:44:05,630 --> 00:44:09,390
S11: just kind of coast spiritually. And when that happens, we

817
00:44:09,390 --> 00:44:11,270
S11: almost have to go back into the wilderness. A season

818
00:44:11,310 --> 00:44:13,630
S11: of learning to trust the Lord again.

819
00:44:14,510 --> 00:44:16,710
S5: Dustin Crowe, our guest right now, author of this book,

820
00:44:16,750 --> 00:44:20,230
S5: Your Wilderness is Not a Waste. You mentioned David. Where

821
00:44:20,430 --> 00:44:24,350
S5: do we see other biblical examples of wilderness seasons and

822
00:44:24,350 --> 00:44:25,870
S5: what can we draw from those?

823
00:44:26,469 --> 00:44:28,790
S11: Yeah, there's a lot. One I love is Moses. I

824
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:31,430
S11: think we all like the story of Moses, but his

825
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:34,069
S11: sticks out to me because, again, the first 40 years

826
00:44:34,070 --> 00:44:37,350
S11: of his life, he's raised in the Egyptian Palace. Given

827
00:44:37,350 --> 00:44:40,670
S11: all this education, has this bright future ahead of him

828
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:43,630
S11: and then his middle segment of his life, he spends

829
00:44:43,630 --> 00:44:46,310
S11: 40 years in the wilderness, and it really does feel

830
00:44:46,310 --> 00:44:48,390
S11: like a waste to him. I'm sure he's not using

831
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:51,669
S11: any of that education or the skills. It feels like

832
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:55,350
S11: he's just stuck in life. Um, and I'm 41 now,

833
00:44:55,350 --> 00:44:56,990
S11: so I'm kind of in that middle season of life.

834
00:44:56,989 --> 00:44:59,350
S11: And I think often we feel that way. We look

835
00:44:59,350 --> 00:45:02,130
S11: at our life. It's very different from what we imagined,

836
00:45:02,130 --> 00:45:05,250
S11: what we expected, and we can become disillusioned. Is this

837
00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:07,690
S11: really what God wants for me? And yet we see

838
00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:11,210
S11: in Moses's story, obviously, God was using that season to

839
00:45:11,250 --> 00:45:13,770
S11: prepare him for the next part of his life, where

840
00:45:13,770 --> 00:45:16,650
S11: he'll send him to Pharaoh. So that story in particular, like,

841
00:45:16,650 --> 00:45:18,609
S11: really resonates with me and some of the things I've

842
00:45:18,610 --> 00:45:19,250
S11: walked through.

843
00:45:19,770 --> 00:45:24,250
S3: It seems like destiny sometimes there's an over spiritualization of

844
00:45:24,250 --> 00:45:28,930
S3: trials and wilderness, and sometimes there's an unawareness of the

845
00:45:28,930 --> 00:45:33,530
S3: beauty of wilderness and suffering and struggles. And I'm thinking

846
00:45:33,530 --> 00:45:36,490
S3: of the Apostle Paul right now who did pray, God,

847
00:45:36,530 --> 00:45:39,410
S3: take this born of the flesh from me. Take this

848
00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:42,089
S3: thing from me. Probably eyesight. There's still a lot of

849
00:45:42,090 --> 00:45:45,370
S3: discussion about that. But he he cried out to God.

850
00:45:45,370 --> 00:45:48,330
S3: And God ultimately said, my grace is sufficient for you.

851
00:45:48,930 --> 00:45:52,410
S3: How valid is it? Because I think I don't want

852
00:45:52,450 --> 00:45:55,410
S3: to overspiritualize this and go, man, your wilderness is not

853
00:45:55,410 --> 00:45:59,200
S3: a waste. Is it fair to ask God to take

854
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,400
S3: us out of the wilderness and at the same time

855
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:02,399
S3: learn lessons.

856
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,879
S11: Oh, yeah, I think it's good to pray. God, this

857
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,880
S11: trial is really hard. I don't want to be in it.

858
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,560
S11: Please get me out of it again to go to

859
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,839
S11: the Psalms and all the times David is asking like, Lord,

860
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,560
S11: deliver me and save me and help me and rescue me.

861
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,200
S11: So I think it's perfectly valid to to lament to

862
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,600
S11: God like, this is really hard or this is painful,

863
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,040
S11: I don't understand. But also ask like, help me change

864
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,600
S11: the circumstances. I think what's important is, as we do that,

865
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,359
S11: to have this open heart posture of, okay, that's what

866
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,640
S11: I want. But as you're doing this, still teach me,

867
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,719
S11: reveal who you are in the midst of this. Give

868
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,560
S11: me your presence. And so it's normal to want to

869
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,799
S11: get out of suffering. That's normal. But we still have

870
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,400
S11: to learn and see God and lean into him in

871
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,719
S11: the midst of that suffering.

872
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,520
S5: You you just mentioned the learning and the seeing God

873
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,160
S5: is is that the responsibility on our part to ensure

874
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,400
S5: that the season isn't wasted?

875
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,880
S11: Yeah, I think, you know, we've all gone through trials

876
00:46:56,989 --> 00:47:00,190
S11: And I think we know we don't always grow through that. Um,

877
00:47:00,390 --> 00:47:02,190
S11: or we can think about people we've seen go through

878
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:04,629
S11: really hard things and they turned away from the Lord

879
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:07,150
S11: or they drifted. So again, I think of Israel in

880
00:47:07,150 --> 00:47:10,670
S11: the wilderness. When they're taken through, they often don't respond. Well.

881
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:13,430
S11: They usually grumble, how could God lead us here? He's

882
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:15,989
S11: abandoned us. Let's go back to Egypt. And so a

883
00:47:15,989 --> 00:47:18,390
S11: lot of times, they kind of do waste their wilderness

884
00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:21,030
S11: because they don't trust the Lord. They don't turn to him,

885
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:23,630
S11: they turn away from him. But in those other stories

886
00:47:23,630 --> 00:47:26,750
S11: of like Hagar and Moses and David and Elijah, they

887
00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:30,270
S11: turn to the Lord. It deepens prayer, deepens trust. And

888
00:47:30,270 --> 00:47:33,190
S11: so I think our response is key will we turn

889
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:36,230
S11: to the Lord, trust him and see how he is working,

890
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:39,110
S11: or just assume he's not working? And this is a waste?

891
00:47:39,989 --> 00:47:45,150
S3: Dustin, when we get into a wilderness, oftentimes that's a

892
00:47:45,150 --> 00:47:50,310
S3: product of the world system, uh, demonic attack, uh, the flesh.

893
00:47:51,150 --> 00:47:55,430
S3: But sometimes we get into situations that are brought on

894
00:47:55,570 --> 00:47:59,850
S3: to us. Uh, bada bing, bada boom by God's kids.

895
00:48:00,489 --> 00:48:02,609
S3: And those seem like they're tougher. You know what I mean?

896
00:48:03,010 --> 00:48:03,570
S3: It's like.

897
00:48:03,610 --> 00:48:04,250
S5: Yes.

898
00:48:04,290 --> 00:48:07,850
S3: Stink. You gotta be kidding me. I'm in the wilderness

899
00:48:07,850 --> 00:48:10,689
S3: here at the hands of somebody who claims to be

900
00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:14,050
S3: God's kid. Or maybe good and well is God's kid,

901
00:48:14,210 --> 00:48:18,890
S3: but at a reckless moment. Betrayal of some kind. What

902
00:48:18,890 --> 00:48:22,210
S3: do you say to someone who's gone through that? Because

903
00:48:22,410 --> 00:48:27,010
S3: that there's a there's a level of, uh, that just

904
00:48:27,010 --> 00:48:31,290
S3: grinds on you that's almost different than a spiritual attack.

905
00:48:31,610 --> 00:48:33,490
S11: Yeah. And I think one of the things you're getting

906
00:48:33,489 --> 00:48:37,009
S11: at is we do sometimes over assume, like, I'm in

907
00:48:37,010 --> 00:48:40,129
S11: this wilderness because of something I've done. And obviously there

908
00:48:40,130 --> 00:48:42,730
S11: can be times where, like, there's an element of discipline

909
00:48:42,730 --> 00:48:45,250
S11: or we have done wrong. Sometimes it's just foolishness. And

910
00:48:45,250 --> 00:48:47,370
S11: so we're in a wilderness, but a lot of times

911
00:48:47,370 --> 00:48:49,890
S11: it can just be circumstances or it can be like

912
00:48:49,890 --> 00:48:52,649
S11: you said, people have wronged us and people are creating

913
00:48:52,850 --> 00:48:56,040
S11: hard things in our life. And so again, because I'm

914
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,600
S11: teaching on David this week, I think of we said, Absalom,

915
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,000
S11: his son betrayed him and his most trusted advisor betrayed him.

916
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,279
S11: And so he's kicked out of the kingdom and he's

917
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,000
S11: in the wilderness. So that wasn't his fault. That was

918
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,839
S11: people attacking him and betraying him. And yet his response

919
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,840
S11: is not primarily to think primarily to think about, okay,

920
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,880
S11: what can I do to get them back? Or how

921
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,000
S11: do I justify myself? How do I defend myself? It

922
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,600
S11: kind of just submits. God has allowed me to be here,

923
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,799
S11: even if it's at the hands of others. So what

924
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,680
S11: does he want to do in me? So his his

925
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,839
S11: focus is always Godward, even when he's there because of

926
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,640
S11: other people. And I think of myself. That's the focus

927
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,680
S11: I need. Yeah. We're wrong. We're attacked, we're lied about,

928
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,760
S11: we're slandered, and that's wrong. But God is still wanting

929
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,720
S11: to shape my heart in the midst of that. Yeah.

930
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,600
S5: Dustin Crowe, our guest right now. So first step today

931
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,840
S5: for the person who's in the middle of something really hard,

932
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,960
S5: what's the thing to do today that can move you

933
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,620
S5: toward God and not away from him in this season.

934
00:49:54,020 --> 00:49:57,420
S11: I think the very beginning is just believing God can

935
00:49:57,420 --> 00:50:01,259
S11: and wants to use this for good. Again, our mindset

936
00:50:01,300 --> 00:50:03,819
S11: is so essential, and if we're in a trial and

937
00:50:03,820 --> 00:50:06,140
S11: we just assume the worst, that either this is the

938
00:50:06,140 --> 00:50:08,940
S11: proof that God is absent or he's abandoned me, or

939
00:50:08,940 --> 00:50:11,939
S11: this simply cannot ever be used for good, then we

940
00:50:11,940 --> 00:50:14,700
S11: won't lean into him and we won't be asking the question, okay,

941
00:50:14,739 --> 00:50:17,140
S11: what are you doing? What are you teaching me? So

942
00:50:17,140 --> 00:50:19,860
S11: I think the very first thing is just believing God

943
00:50:19,860 --> 00:50:22,500
S11: does use trials for the good of his people. And

944
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:25,460
S11: so he's doing good in my life through this, and

945
00:50:25,460 --> 00:50:27,100
S11: I want to be on the lookout for what that

946
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:29,460
S11: might be. So that gives hope and it gives you

947
00:50:29,460 --> 00:50:30,580
S11: a different perspective.

948
00:50:31,140 --> 00:50:33,459
S3: You've been a pastor long enough, Dustin, where you know

949
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:37,380
S3: that this is not this is not a one off.

950
00:50:37,380 --> 00:50:39,259
S3: When I, when I, I'm reading the title of your

951
00:50:39,260 --> 00:50:43,580
S3: book right now, your wilderness is not a waste. So

952
00:50:43,820 --> 00:50:46,580
S3: this is one thing we can be absolutely certain of.

953
00:50:46,860 --> 00:50:51,770
S3: This is relevant to everyone who is a Jesus follower, right, Ali?

954
00:50:51,810 --> 00:50:53,330
S5: Yes. 100%.

955
00:50:53,650 --> 00:50:57,250
S3: So in and it's. The wild thing about wilderness is

956
00:50:57,250 --> 00:51:00,330
S3: either we've been through one or in one or one's coming.

957
00:51:00,330 --> 00:51:03,089
S3: There is no way around this. We can't escape it.

958
00:51:03,090 --> 00:51:06,850
S3: Maybe that's the mindset shift that needs to change, is

959
00:51:06,850 --> 00:51:10,730
S3: to be alert with the fact that the wilderness is

960
00:51:10,730 --> 00:51:13,610
S3: around the corner again, right. Just. Dustin.

961
00:51:14,410 --> 00:51:16,450
S11: Yeah. Like I said, it's not a one time thing,

962
00:51:16,770 --> 00:51:19,370
S11: you know, Peter says, don't be surprised when this fiery

963
00:51:19,410 --> 00:51:21,609
S11: trial is coming upon you. And yet I know I'm

964
00:51:21,610 --> 00:51:23,010
S11: always surprised whenever.

965
00:51:23,010 --> 00:51:23,650
S3: Right.

966
00:51:24,290 --> 00:51:26,529
S11: I was like, oh, what? What's going on? And yet,

967
00:51:26,570 --> 00:51:28,649
S11: like you said, we're either walking through it or it's

968
00:51:28,650 --> 00:51:31,450
S11: around the corner. It is just so normal in our

969
00:51:31,450 --> 00:51:35,209
S11: broken world, and so we should expect it. And that's where, again,

970
00:51:35,250 --> 00:51:38,649
S11: I think if we believe suffering is coming, then that

971
00:51:38,650 --> 00:51:41,730
S11: is normal. We don't see it as bad. But we ask, okay, God,

972
00:51:41,730 --> 00:51:43,089
S11: do you want to do good in me? You want

973
00:51:43,090 --> 00:51:45,450
S11: to shape me? Um, and that's part of why I

974
00:51:45,450 --> 00:51:48,250
S11: like seeing all the different wilderness stories in the Bible.

975
00:51:48,450 --> 00:51:51,560
S11: There are some commonalities, but there's also a lot of differences.

976
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,400
S11: And so today's wilderness will be different from the wilderness.

977
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:55,760
S11: I mean, two years from now.

978
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,919
S3: Yeah. You know, my bride, one of her heroes is

979
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,440
S3: Elizabeth Elliot, and she got to spend a couple of

980
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,640
S3: afternoons with her at a retreat that we were at

981
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,480
S3: years ago down in Saint Pete Beach. This woman that

982
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,640
S3: went through it in so many different ways, obviously. Um,

983
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,560
S3: I'm not going to give the backstory of Elizabeth Elliot,

984
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,000
S3: but it's an amazing woman of God. There is something

985
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,799
S3: that can really happen. And the hope here, Dustin, is

986
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,920
S3: that although the wilderness will never stop coming at us,

987
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:28,080
S3: there is an eerie maturity that comes out of this.

988
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,600
S3: If we let God have his way, isn't there, bro?

989
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,040
S11: There is. Yeah. And I think, again, I'm a pastor.

990
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,800
S11: I often do classes and I'll ask for testimonies. And

991
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,600
S11: probably nine out of ten, that's a made up number,

992
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,480
S11: but probably nine out of ten times when you ask

993
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,480
S11: people to share, like when did you really grow in life?

994
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,600
S11: When did you really experience God's nearness? It's a trial.

995
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,540
S11: It's hardship, it's pain. So it's not the thing that

996
00:52:49,540 --> 00:52:52,020
S11: we want, but it's always the thing that grows us

997
00:52:52,020 --> 00:52:55,339
S11: the most. And we see that looking back. Um, and

998
00:52:55,340 --> 00:52:57,859
S11: so yeah, that's what's going to grow our faith. But

999
00:52:57,860 --> 00:53:00,060
S11: even though we know that we still don't want it,

1000
00:53:00,180 --> 00:53:01,260
S11: we can grow through it.

1001
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:04,339
S5: Dustin Crowe, the author of the book Your Wilderness Is

1002
00:53:04,340 --> 00:53:07,219
S5: Not a Waste. God's Purpose in Suffering and Struggles. If

1003
00:53:07,219 --> 00:53:13,180
S5: you want more from our guests text purpose to (800) 555-7898.

1004
00:53:13,180 --> 00:53:18,299
S5: Just that one word purpose to (800) 555-7898.

1005
00:53:18,500 --> 00:53:23,260
S2: She's a choreographer extraordinaire and everything is Greek to her.

1006
00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:27,340
S2: Super di is in the crew. It's Carl and crew

1007
00:53:27,340 --> 00:53:28,700
S2: on Moody Radio.

1008
00:53:28,780 --> 00:53:33,460
S3: Okay, so here's the deal. Here's the dealio right here. Ali.

1009
00:53:33,660 --> 00:53:36,980
S5: Oh, boy. Bringing back retro terms I see.

1010
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:38,859
S3: Is dealio retro?

1011
00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:39,540
S4: Yeah, I think so.

1012
00:53:39,580 --> 00:53:40,700
S5: Definitely not current.

1013
00:53:42,460 --> 00:53:46,780
S3: Ali. Ali slamming her friend Carl here.

1014
00:53:47,219 --> 00:53:47,620
S12: No.

1015
00:53:49,210 --> 00:53:54,170
S3: That's so encouraging. When you have teenagers, you're very aware.

1016
00:53:54,170 --> 00:53:56,650
S3: Calling Allie's calling me. Not current.

1017
00:53:56,690 --> 00:53:57,210
S5: You're very.

1018
00:53:57,210 --> 00:53:58,050
S3: Aware of what's.

1019
00:53:58,050 --> 00:54:00,650
S5: Current and what's not. When you have teenagers in the house.

1020
00:54:00,690 --> 00:54:03,170
S3: I guess Leo is about 20 something.

1021
00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:04,890
S5: That's not. They let you know?

1022
00:54:04,930 --> 00:54:07,129
S3: My son was big on Leo back in the day.

1023
00:54:07,130 --> 00:54:09,690
S3: Let's see. When did he say. Yeah, it's 20 years old.

1024
00:54:11,130 --> 00:54:13,090
S3: You're right. Allie, I'm an old guy.

1025
00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:13,850
S5: It's okay.

1026
00:54:14,010 --> 00:54:15,370
S3: I'm an old gasser.

1027
00:54:15,610 --> 00:54:17,290
S5: Uh, we're not getting any younger.

1028
00:54:17,530 --> 00:54:21,290
S3: Oh my goodness. Leo was kind of a fun term.

1029
00:54:21,330 --> 00:54:23,370
S3: My son used that all the time. That's where I

1030
00:54:23,370 --> 00:54:28,730
S3: got that from. Here's the dealio, dad. Here's the dealio. Oh,

1031
00:54:29,489 --> 00:54:36,370
S3: so here's the dealio, guys. God wants to put our

1032
00:54:36,370 --> 00:54:41,130
S3: feet on the rock. That's how we're built to last.

1033
00:54:41,130 --> 00:54:47,799
S3: That's how we survive storms. But what happens when we

1034
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,040
S3: find ourselves supposedly standing on the Rock of truth? And

1035
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,719
S3: yet the rock feels a little squishy or unstable?

1036
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,680
S5: Yeah, we're not really sure why.

1037
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:03,840
S3: Yeah, and here's the reality. The gospel that changes everything

1038
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,319
S3: doesn't intend to just layer over the gospel, over a

1039
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:15,040
S3: life that's had a lot of miscues, a lot of hurt,

1040
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,800
S3: a lot of pain, a lot of family of origin stuff,

1041
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:22,480
S3: a lot of that. No. God wants to dig out

1042
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,920
S3: all that undergrowth, all that dunnage, all that kind of

1043
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,720
S3: building up stuff that we had from years of either

1044
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,440
S3: not following Christ or reckless people that weren't following Christ,

1045
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:39,360
S3: or even well-meaning Christians who said things that really hurt.

1046
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,839
S3: And until we pick it up, take a look at

1047
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,580
S3: that and get that dealt with. We're going to be

1048
00:55:45,580 --> 00:55:51,580
S3: forever kind of shaken, a little unstable. Weeds will grow, right, Ali?

1049
00:55:51,620 --> 00:55:55,500
S5: Yes they do. And you're wondering. Okay. Yeah, I got

1050
00:55:55,500 --> 00:55:58,660
S5: some stuff in my past, but I. I don't even

1051
00:55:58,700 --> 00:55:59,820
S5: want to go back.

1052
00:56:00,420 --> 00:56:04,140
S3: Yeah, but if we do, if we have the courage

1053
00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:10,219
S3: to look at our life, everything can change. And we

1054
00:56:10,219 --> 00:56:12,900
S3: want to do the hard work on this Freedom Friday.

1055
00:56:12,940 --> 00:56:16,100
S3: The hard work of looking back so that what we're

1056
00:56:16,100 --> 00:56:23,259
S3: building on going forward is stable, rock solid, not without storms,

1057
00:56:23,540 --> 00:56:27,580
S3: but stable and rock solid. One of the show favorites

1058
00:56:27,580 --> 00:56:28,220
S3: coming up.

1059
00:56:29,180 --> 00:56:33,620
S2: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew.

1060
00:56:33,780 --> 00:56:36,739
S3: So I had to move a bird feeder because I

1061
00:56:36,739 --> 00:56:40,340
S3: was given bird some headaches. Wasn't pretty. Ali.

1062
00:56:40,500 --> 00:56:40,939
S5: Uh oh.

1063
00:56:41,219 --> 00:56:41,620
S3: Yeah.

1064
00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:43,299
S5: What happened?

1065
00:56:43,410 --> 00:56:45,489
S3: I'm sitting in my living room one day and I

1066
00:56:45,489 --> 00:56:47,410
S3: had heard a couple of these. But one day I'm

1067
00:56:47,410 --> 00:56:50,489
S3: sitting there and bam! A few seconds later, bam. A

1068
00:56:50,489 --> 00:56:53,890
S3: few seconds later, bam. And with the third hit on

1069
00:56:53,890 --> 00:56:56,850
S3: the window, I'm like, I've got to move the bird feeder.

1070
00:56:56,850 --> 00:56:59,730
S3: I told my bride. I said, this thing's too close

1071
00:56:59,730 --> 00:57:02,730
S3: to our living room windows, and these birds are seeing

1072
00:57:02,730 --> 00:57:05,210
S3: reflections and they think they got blue sky. And all

1073
00:57:05,210 --> 00:57:08,210
S3: they got is glass. And I'm like, all right, we

1074
00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:11,050
S3: got to move it. So I, I took this high

1075
00:57:11,090 --> 00:57:14,170
S3: tech really cool. I've got a really cool bird feeder

1076
00:57:14,210 --> 00:57:17,170
S3: that's just beautiful and awesome. And I decided I got

1077
00:57:17,170 --> 00:57:19,890
S3: to go back behind our home into a common area.

1078
00:57:19,890 --> 00:57:22,210
S3: I talked to some neighbors. They said, good to go, man.

1079
00:57:22,770 --> 00:57:26,650
S3: So here's what's going on in the backyard. And I

1080
00:57:26,690 --> 00:57:29,450
S3: wanted to put down flagstone and create a cool little

1081
00:57:29,490 --> 00:57:34,410
S3: bird area with a little bird wash and all that stuff.

1082
00:57:34,410 --> 00:57:36,610
S3: And I got a choice. I can go get some

1083
00:57:36,610 --> 00:57:39,130
S3: flagstone and just plop it on top. But I realized

1084
00:57:39,130 --> 00:57:41,689
S3: that isn't going to work. So I did a little

1085
00:57:41,730 --> 00:57:44,360
S3: bit of ChatGPT and found out. All right, this is

1086
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:45,880
S3: what I got to do. So I went in and

1087
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,000
S3: did it and I cut away all this undergrowth. Undergrowth

1088
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,200
S3: just has all kinds of vines, and I'm clipping it

1089
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,560
S3: and getting it all carved back right down to the soil.

1090
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,360
S3: And then I scrape that off. I even uprooted some weeds.

1091
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,680
S3: Then I rolled out some, some of this weed blocker

1092
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,720
S3: cloth that I've never used before. But I rolled that

1093
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:09,120
S3: out and then I got some aggregate, many bags of aggregate,

1094
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,720
S3: poured that out onto the top, tamped it down, and

1095
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,600
S3: now I'm ready for I mean, it's ready to go now.

1096
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,040
S3: I'm ready for about an inch of sand, and then

1097
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,880
S3: I'm going to get those flagstones in there and then

1098
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,640
S3: pour some pea gravel in between them, put some polymer

1099
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,480
S3: in there. The rain comes down, it seeps through. But

1100
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,040
S3: here's the point the flagstone won't move. And here's the

1101
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,800
S3: principle from life that we find to be so true.

1102
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,360
S3: Some of you. You feel this. You feel like Carl. I'm.

1103
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,000
S3: I'm wanting to take my next step with Jesus. But

1104
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,740
S3: every step I take, it feels like the flagstones moving

1105
00:58:42,740 --> 00:58:44,940
S3: under my feet. And then when I look down, it

1106
00:58:44,940 --> 00:58:47,500
S3: looks like the weeds keep growing up. And it could

1107
00:58:47,500 --> 00:58:49,900
S3: be that we've got to do some root work. We've

1108
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:52,939
S3: got to get down to the terra firma, and it's

1109
00:58:52,940 --> 00:58:56,260
S3: getting down to that. That can be difficult because you

1110
00:58:56,300 --> 00:58:59,420
S3: got to look at stuff from the way back, or

1111
00:58:59,420 --> 00:59:02,860
S3: maybe even the recent past, but it's looking at that

1112
00:59:02,860 --> 00:59:06,820
S3: stuff in light of God's grace and power that changes everything.

1113
00:59:07,260 --> 00:59:08,780
S3: We're not wrong, are we, Greg?

1114
00:59:09,300 --> 00:59:11,300
S13: That's exactly right. You got me worn out just hearing

1115
00:59:11,300 --> 00:59:13,060
S13: about all the work you put in your backyard.

1116
00:59:14,460 --> 00:59:17,460
S3: Yeah, I even had to have a hand tamper beating

1117
00:59:17,460 --> 00:59:19,740
S3: on it with an eight inch by eight inch steel plate,

1118
00:59:19,740 --> 00:59:22,780
S3: getting that aggregate down. It's a little bit of work,

1119
00:59:22,820 --> 00:59:24,380
S3: but it's worth it, isn't it, Greg?

1120
00:59:24,420 --> 00:59:28,820
S13: Totally. When we're thinking about walking with Christ and knowing him,

1121
00:59:29,020 --> 00:59:32,380
S13: we often feel exactly the same way that you were

1122
00:59:32,380 --> 00:59:35,540
S13: describing in in that story, we we look down and

1123
00:59:35,540 --> 00:59:37,860
S13: we see weeds popping up. No matter how hard we try.

1124
00:59:37,900 --> 00:59:40,330
S13: We're showing up to church on Sunday. We're going to

1125
00:59:40,330 --> 00:59:43,810
S13: our small groups. We're reading the Bible consistently, but they're

1126
00:59:43,810 --> 00:59:48,290
S13: still shifting under our feet. There's still weeds that are

1127
00:59:48,290 --> 00:59:50,850
S13: growing up, and we kind of reach a point of thinking,

1128
00:59:50,850 --> 00:59:53,290
S13: there's something wrong with me, that no matter how hard

1129
00:59:53,290 --> 00:59:56,170
S13: I try, I'm not going to change. But we're really

1130
00:59:56,170 --> 01:00:00,610
S13: no different than David in Psalm 51 six where he said,

1131
01:00:01,050 --> 01:00:06,130
S13: Surely God, you desire truth in my innermost parts, that

1132
01:00:06,130 --> 01:00:08,930
S13: there's a work that God wants to do in you,

1133
01:00:08,930 --> 01:00:14,410
S13: in us that goes deeper than just how we're seeing

1134
01:00:14,410 --> 01:00:17,450
S13: and how we perform and and the right things that

1135
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:20,250
S13: we say, or even the scriptures that we memorize, that

1136
01:00:20,250 --> 01:00:23,450
S13: he he wants to do a deeper work. And once

1137
01:00:23,450 --> 01:00:26,690
S13: that deeper work is begun, things change dynamically.

1138
01:00:26,930 --> 01:00:29,610
S5: Greg Dempster, our guest right now, founder and director of

1139
01:00:29,610 --> 01:00:33,210
S5: Christ Life Ministries, he's been a senior leader and elder

1140
01:00:33,210 --> 01:00:36,450
S5: ministry director. You know, you captured in one statement what

1141
01:00:36,450 --> 01:00:38,669
S5: I think sums up what a lot of people feel.

1142
01:00:38,670 --> 01:00:42,310
S5: There must be something wrong with me. This abundant life

1143
01:00:42,310 --> 01:00:44,830
S5: in Christ that everybody seems to talk about. I can't

1144
01:00:44,830 --> 01:00:47,390
S5: seem to get there. I read about it in scripture,

1145
01:00:47,390 --> 01:00:51,710
S5: but there's this gap that exists. I'm stuck in unhealthy patterns.

1146
01:00:51,750 --> 01:00:54,750
S5: I mean, if there was a dollar given out for

1147
01:00:54,750 --> 01:00:58,190
S5: every person who's going, yep, that's how I feel. I

1148
01:00:58,230 --> 01:01:01,750
S5: would be a rich woman. This is a common experience, right?

1149
01:01:02,110 --> 01:01:06,350
S13: It's all of us. Unfortunately, when we see things not

1150
01:01:06,350 --> 01:01:09,630
S13: looking good, when we see the weeds popping up and

1151
01:01:09,630 --> 01:01:13,670
S13: or we lose our cool in traffic or with our kids,

1152
01:01:14,430 --> 01:01:17,350
S13: what do we do? We're kind of at wit's end. We've.

1153
01:01:17,510 --> 01:01:21,350
S13: We've read the Bible incessantly. We've gone to small group.

1154
01:01:21,350 --> 01:01:24,070
S13: We've tried everything that we can to get over it.

1155
01:01:24,070 --> 01:01:29,510
S13: And yet this reoccurring pattern of dysfunction is making its

1156
01:01:29,550 --> 01:01:33,430
S13: way out in our lives. And again, that's all of us.

1157
01:01:33,870 --> 01:01:38,900
S13: And what God does in allowing us to. realize to

1158
01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:42,540
S13: see those things as he's calling us deeper. He's calling

1159
01:01:42,540 --> 01:01:47,260
S13: us to, to to radical honesty related to to who

1160
01:01:47,260 --> 01:01:49,580
S13: we are. In fact, it was it was, uh, John

1161
01:01:49,620 --> 01:01:53,100
S13: Tyson who said that God can't heal the person we

1162
01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:53,940
S13: pretend to be.

1163
01:01:54,020 --> 01:01:55,660
S3: That is so powerful.

1164
01:01:55,660 --> 01:01:59,420
S13: And yet we all find ourselves there when the mistakes

1165
01:01:59,420 --> 01:02:03,220
S13: are happening and the change is not occurring like we

1166
01:02:03,260 --> 01:02:06,460
S13: dreamed it could happen. What do we do? We go

1167
01:02:06,460 --> 01:02:10,100
S13: into tryhard mode or we begin to medicate. We begin

1168
01:02:10,100 --> 01:02:12,660
S13: to disconnect and medicate and say it's never going to change,

1169
01:02:13,340 --> 01:02:17,620
S13: or we just read that much more. We attend. Maybe

1170
01:02:17,620 --> 01:02:20,020
S13: there's another group on Thursday night that I could attend

1171
01:02:20,060 --> 01:02:23,180
S13: that might help, but the reality is, is that God

1172
01:02:23,180 --> 01:02:28,860
S13: again wants us to actually pass beneath the surface of

1173
01:02:28,860 --> 01:02:34,060
S13: our lives, not beyond who people see us, how people

1174
01:02:34,060 --> 01:02:37,770
S13: see us, and into who we really are. That's really

1175
01:02:37,770 --> 01:02:40,530
S13: what Paul's getting at in passages like Romans 12 two

1176
01:02:40,850 --> 01:02:43,850
S13: where he says the real metamorphosis, the real life change,

1177
01:02:43,970 --> 01:02:48,850
S13: the real transformation is going to happen as I work,

1178
01:02:48,850 --> 01:02:52,169
S13: as God works in the mind. Actually, the Greek word

1179
01:02:52,170 --> 01:02:55,370
S13: there is noose, and it represents how we perceive, how

1180
01:02:55,370 --> 01:02:59,530
S13: we interpret, how we understand, how we judge. And God

1181
01:02:59,530 --> 01:03:04,209
S13: wants us to understand that that's formed somehow. It's formed

1182
01:03:04,210 --> 01:03:09,250
S13: through life experiences. Our interpretation of those life experiences, and

1183
01:03:09,250 --> 01:03:12,570
S13: that's some of that deeper work, that deeper soil that

1184
01:03:12,570 --> 01:03:15,450
S13: God wants to move into to bring freedom.

1185
01:03:15,570 --> 01:03:17,530
S5: Greg Dempster, our guest right now, let's talk a little

1186
01:03:17,530 --> 01:03:20,610
S5: bit about Christ Life Ministries because people are listening. Go, okay,

1187
01:03:20,650 --> 01:03:24,209
S5: I get all of this. But when people find their

1188
01:03:24,210 --> 01:03:29,490
S5: way to you, it's usually because they've ignored this shaky

1189
01:03:29,490 --> 01:03:32,290
S5: ground underneath their feet. The what you talked about some

1190
01:03:32,290 --> 01:03:34,790
S5: of the roots, some of the dysfunction. Talk a little

1191
01:03:34,830 --> 01:03:36,750
S5: bit about the work that you do that gives you

1192
01:03:36,750 --> 01:03:38,190
S5: this kind of perspective here.

1193
01:03:38,830 --> 01:03:41,350
S13: Well, first the work was in me. I mean, God

1194
01:03:41,350 --> 01:03:45,430
S13: radically exposing. I mean, a little weeds under the flagstone

1195
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:49,070
S13: is one thing, but a massive overgrowth was my life

1196
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:52,830
S13: and I needed the savior. I needed a I needed

1197
01:03:52,830 --> 01:03:57,710
S13: somebody when I was in my master's program to come

1198
01:03:57,710 --> 01:04:00,230
S13: alongside me and help me understand how to get at

1199
01:04:00,270 --> 01:04:03,990
S13: that stuff and bring it, actually understand it and bring

1200
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:07,590
S13: it to the Savior. You know, Ali, your question is good.

1201
01:04:07,630 --> 01:04:10,990
S13: We we work with pastoral leaders. We work with Christian

1202
01:04:10,990 --> 01:04:15,110
S13: ministry leaders. Uh, more often than not in this season,

1203
01:04:15,110 --> 01:04:17,990
S13: leaders that we would call high influence probability leaders, leaders

1204
01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:23,150
S13: that step in, take responsibility, want to change, and then

1205
01:04:23,150 --> 01:04:29,150
S13: naturally give it away. They're influential. And these leaders often

1206
01:04:29,150 --> 01:04:31,390
S13: are coming in not because there's a train wreck in

1207
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:35,180
S13: their lives, although that happens sometimes, but often it's because

1208
01:04:35,180 --> 01:04:38,020
S13: there's a disconnect between what they believe to be true

1209
01:04:38,020 --> 01:04:42,100
S13: about God and what they're experiencing daily. They could be

1210
01:04:42,260 --> 01:04:45,460
S13: in front of the most successful thing that's happening in

1211
01:04:45,460 --> 01:04:51,140
S13: Ohio or Michigan or Illinois. And yet in private they're saying, man,

1212
01:04:51,140 --> 01:04:55,660
S13: I've got discord, I've got disconnect. I'm not finding life

1213
01:04:55,660 --> 01:04:58,380
S13: in this like I thought I would. What's my problem?

1214
01:04:58,380 --> 01:05:02,180
S13: That's usually the beginning of the conversation that we have

1215
01:05:02,180 --> 01:05:04,939
S13: with these leaders. So we work with leaders all over

1216
01:05:04,940 --> 01:05:09,260
S13: the US and we have a a daughter organization up

1217
01:05:09,260 --> 01:05:12,300
S13: in Alaska of all places. Wasilla, Alaska.

1218
01:05:12,580 --> 01:05:15,660
S3: Yeah. It's beautiful. Greg. Okay, let's give us a story.

1219
01:05:15,700 --> 01:05:18,260
S3: Give us a story because there's more to this. But

1220
01:05:18,620 --> 01:05:20,780
S3: give us a story so that someone can go, all right,

1221
01:05:20,780 --> 01:05:22,860
S3: I'm going to I'm going to grab a hold of that.

1222
01:05:22,860 --> 01:05:24,100
S3: Give me some hope here.

1223
01:05:24,580 --> 01:05:28,900
S13: Even just using Romans 12 two as the backdrop. Metamorphosis

1224
01:05:28,900 --> 01:05:32,530
S13: through the renewal of the mind. How's the mind formed? It's.

1225
01:05:32,570 --> 01:05:33,850
S13: We don't come out of the womb with a fully

1226
01:05:33,850 --> 01:05:39,170
S13: developed mind. It's developed through emotionally intense experiences that we

1227
01:05:39,170 --> 01:05:43,130
S13: have to interpret. And if we interpret them incorrectly, often

1228
01:05:43,130 --> 01:05:45,850
S13: that leads to distortion and the creation of all sorts

1229
01:05:45,850 --> 01:05:49,169
S13: of disruptive emotion. Ken was a guy I worked with

1230
01:05:49,170 --> 01:05:52,370
S13: several years ago. He's a pastor of a massively a

1231
01:05:52,370 --> 01:05:56,370
S13: wildly successful church. And as we began to get into

1232
01:05:56,410 --> 01:05:58,970
S13: his story, he's just like, yeah, the only thing I

1233
01:05:58,970 --> 01:06:00,330
S13: can think of is I had a dad that had

1234
01:06:00,330 --> 01:06:02,050
S13: anger issues and I said, well, tell me about it.

1235
01:06:02,690 --> 01:06:04,650
S13: So I can remember one time we were on vacation.

1236
01:06:04,650 --> 01:06:09,210
S13: We're driving out in this old Chrysler station wagon down

1237
01:06:09,210 --> 01:06:12,010
S13: to Florida. Me and my brother began to get into

1238
01:06:12,010 --> 01:06:13,970
S13: it in the back seat, and my dad, at 60

1239
01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:16,250
S13: miles an hour, slams on the brakes, locks the whole

1240
01:06:16,250 --> 01:06:18,610
S13: station wagon up, pulls off to the side of the road,

1241
01:06:18,690 --> 01:06:22,090
S13: kicks open the back door, and forces my brother and

1242
01:06:22,090 --> 01:06:24,650
S13: me out along the freeway, shuts the door and drives

1243
01:06:24,650 --> 01:06:28,450
S13: off and we're left thinking, what the heck? Of course,

1244
01:06:28,450 --> 01:06:30,830
S13: he turned that thing back around to the the first

1245
01:06:30,870 --> 01:06:33,230
S13: off ramp and picked them back up again, but he

1246
01:06:33,230 --> 01:06:38,870
S13: was exerting control and telling them that they must live

1247
01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:41,630
S13: according to the way he demanded them to live, or

1248
01:06:41,630 --> 01:06:44,950
S13: else consequences were going to happen. A second thing that

1249
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:47,350
S13: was a seminal event in his life. He was playing

1250
01:06:47,350 --> 01:06:49,630
S13: around in the back seat with that same brother driving

1251
01:06:49,630 --> 01:06:51,430
S13: down the road. His dad didn't give him any warning.

1252
01:06:51,590 --> 01:06:54,669
S13: Jack slaps his brother across the face. The problem was,

1253
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:58,030
S13: is that his dad was wearing this huge ring, ripped

1254
01:06:58,030 --> 01:07:01,350
S13: open his brother's cheek, blood everywhere. And Ken, in that

1255
01:07:01,350 --> 01:07:05,630
S13: moment said to me there was something that shifted. I

1256
01:07:05,630 --> 01:07:07,270
S13: began to realize that if I was going to make

1257
01:07:07,270 --> 01:07:08,790
S13: it in this world, I was going to have to

1258
01:07:08,790 --> 01:07:11,830
S13: do it myself. I didn't have somebody to support me.

1259
01:07:11,870 --> 01:07:15,110
S13: My dad was tearing me down. Now, fast forward to

1260
01:07:15,150 --> 01:07:19,710
S13: his present ministry. We had spent significant time together uncovering

1261
01:07:19,710 --> 01:07:24,190
S13: what was distorted and bringing those things into the presence

1262
01:07:24,190 --> 01:07:27,710
S13: of the true Jesus. He's a counselor. Don't you know

1263
01:07:28,070 --> 01:07:30,540
S13: he's a he's a God who promises to lead us

1264
01:07:30,540 --> 01:07:35,460
S13: into all truth. Yeah, and we sought God together. And

1265
01:07:35,460 --> 01:07:38,140
S13: I get this call from him on a Sunday afternoon.

1266
01:07:38,180 --> 01:07:40,780
S13: He's just like, dude, you gotta hear what happened today.

1267
01:07:40,780 --> 01:07:45,460
S13: He said, people tell me I'm a phenomenal communicator. And

1268
01:07:45,460 --> 01:07:48,140
S13: I was driving in with my Starbucks in hand into

1269
01:07:48,140 --> 01:07:50,780
S13: church early on Sunday morning, going through my message points

1270
01:07:50,780 --> 01:07:54,540
S13: and my transitions, he said, I think I heard God speak,

1271
01:07:55,700 --> 01:07:57,100
S13: and he said, Ken, I just want you to pull

1272
01:07:57,100 --> 01:08:00,340
S13: over now and I want you to offer this whole

1273
01:08:00,340 --> 01:08:03,860
S13: service to me. You don't need to be in control anymore,

1274
01:08:04,660 --> 01:08:07,020
S13: that you're going to be fine. I've got you. I

1275
01:08:07,020 --> 01:08:10,540
S13: want this to be mine today. And so he said

1276
01:08:10,660 --> 01:08:12,100
S13: he was laughing as he was telling me. He said

1277
01:08:12,100 --> 01:08:14,540
S13: I pulled over, hands raised in the car, he said

1278
01:08:14,540 --> 01:08:16,820
S13: I think people were driving by thinking I was crazy,

1279
01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:21,900
S13: offering this whole service to God. He said, you're never

1280
01:08:21,900 --> 01:08:24,219
S13: going to believe what happened. I got through that message

1281
01:08:24,220 --> 01:08:27,970
S13: and God was moving powerfully, and at the end, I

1282
01:08:27,970 --> 01:08:30,090
S13: just had this sense that I was supposed to open

1283
01:08:30,689 --> 01:08:33,330
S13: the stage up kind of the front of the stage,

1284
01:08:33,330 --> 01:08:36,130
S13: becoming an altar. He said, we're a conservative church. We

1285
01:08:36,130 --> 01:08:39,650
S13: don't do that ever. But when he got to his

1286
01:08:39,650 --> 01:08:42,889
S13: last point, closed his message, he said, I just feel

1287
01:08:42,890 --> 01:08:45,929
S13: like God wants us to come forward. If you need Christ,

1288
01:08:45,930 --> 01:08:48,129
S13: if you want to surrender your life to Christ today

1289
01:08:48,130 --> 01:08:52,090
S13: for the first time, or you're coming back home, come forward.

1290
01:08:52,090 --> 01:08:53,889
S13: We want to pray for you. He said, Greg, I've

1291
01:08:53,890 --> 01:08:56,809
S13: never seen anything like this. It was the whole stage

1292
01:08:56,810 --> 01:08:59,009
S13: in front of the stage was lined up, three people

1293
01:08:59,010 --> 01:09:02,610
S13: deep with his congregants returning to the Lord, and he,

1294
01:09:02,650 --> 01:09:05,330
S13: with a tear like tear in his voice as he

1295
01:09:05,330 --> 01:09:08,210
S13: was telling me, he said, I would have never gotten

1296
01:09:08,210 --> 01:09:11,530
S13: there or experienced this, carrying this on my own. God

1297
01:09:11,530 --> 01:09:14,450
S13: setting me free. Yeah, that's the kind of work we do.

1298
01:09:15,210 --> 01:09:17,130
S3: Greg Dempster, our guest right now. And we're going to

1299
01:09:17,130 --> 01:09:19,490
S3: have a resource in just a moment for you boom crew.

1300
01:09:20,010 --> 01:09:22,170
S3: You know, there's a lot of people and I'm just

1301
01:09:22,170 --> 01:09:24,889
S3: going to restate what Ali said. It's like, why doesn't

1302
01:09:24,890 --> 01:09:28,870
S3: this work for me and some. Then with that eerie

1303
01:09:28,910 --> 01:09:32,910
S3: thought of I guess some things can never be won.

1304
01:09:32,910 --> 01:09:36,269
S3: Some battles just can't be won. Some wave a white flag.

1305
01:09:36,310 --> 01:09:38,950
S3: Others go out and try to find other things to

1306
01:09:39,430 --> 01:09:43,150
S3: kind of medicate that pain. But you you really believe,

1307
01:09:43,189 --> 01:09:45,389
S3: don't you, Greg, that if we dig down deep and

1308
01:09:45,390 --> 01:09:48,070
S3: let the Lord meet us there in some of those

1309
01:09:48,950 --> 01:09:52,309
S3: memories from the past and or the absence of any

1310
01:09:52,310 --> 01:09:55,549
S3: kind of memories of love and care, uh, we can

1311
01:09:55,550 --> 01:09:59,990
S3: reconnect or connect with God, maybe as we never have before.

1312
01:10:00,229 --> 01:10:02,870
S3: Give a little vision of hope to every person listening

1313
01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:03,709
S3: right now. Greg.

1314
01:10:04,750 --> 01:10:07,790
S13: You know, in the church we talk about sanctification, this

1315
01:10:07,790 --> 01:10:12,150
S13: process of being set apart unto God. And and I

1316
01:10:12,150 --> 01:10:15,189
S13: just want to encourage you, if you're at wit's end,

1317
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:21,670
S13: if you've been just pushing and toiling and trying to

1318
01:10:21,710 --> 01:10:24,269
S13: move to inch your life closer to God, and yet

1319
01:10:24,270 --> 01:10:29,900
S13: you're constantly being undermined by dysfunction and brokenness and sin

1320
01:10:29,900 --> 01:10:33,900
S13: in your life. There's more to be had. You've got

1321
01:10:33,900 --> 01:10:39,780
S13: a God who is kind and patient. He's a God

1322
01:10:39,780 --> 01:10:43,059
S13: who's working in your heart right now. He's a God

1323
01:10:43,060 --> 01:10:47,780
S13: that's speaking to you right now. And there are steps

1324
01:10:47,780 --> 01:10:52,259
S13: that you can take, very biblical steps that will help

1325
01:10:52,260 --> 01:10:54,900
S13: you get beneath the surface of your life to the

1326
01:10:54,900 --> 01:10:58,860
S13: things not just to the disruptive emotion, but what's causing

1327
01:10:59,060 --> 01:11:03,180
S13: the disruptive emotion. And once you identify those things, you

1328
01:11:03,180 --> 01:11:07,460
S13: can bring those before the living God and experience a

1329
01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:13,220
S13: God lead you to freedom. And again, my life is

1330
01:11:13,220 --> 01:11:18,780
S13: a testimony of someone who was stuck and yet someone

1331
01:11:18,780 --> 01:11:22,460
S13: who's beginning to get free. That's the same God, the

1332
01:11:22,460 --> 01:11:25,360
S13: same God working in me and the leaders that we

1333
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:28,200
S13: get to serve is a God who's reaching out to

1334
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,439
S13: you right now. Come on. Step towards him.

1335
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:34,200
S3: Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. The time is now, right?

1336
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:36,680
S5: It is. And, you know, I. I want you to

1337
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:39,519
S5: speak to just one quick thing, Greg. There are many

1338
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:43,200
S5: people who listen to something like this, and it sounds very.

1339
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,479
S5: I'm going to use a word that people say, kind

1340
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,200
S5: of like psychobabble. Like you're you're this is these are terms.

1341
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,920
S5: It's under the blood. My past is covered. I don't

1342
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:54,880
S5: want to go back and start digging up stuff. I

1343
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:58,480
S5: don't want to talk about feelings. That's a strong feeling

1344
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:00,200
S5: that many people have. I don't.

1345
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:00,519
S3: Want.

1346
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:02,879
S5: I don't want to do this. This doesn't sound like

1347
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:06,439
S5: something that a believer needs. Speak to the skeptic right

1348
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,120
S5: now who hears what we're talking about and has already

1349
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:12,080
S5: dismissed this as definitely not for them.

1350
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:14,120
S13: You know what's crazy is I don't even need to

1351
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:16,799
S13: speak to it. Paul speaks to it in Philippians three

1352
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:21,200
S13: where he says, I'm committed to forgetting what's behind and

1353
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,750
S13: pressing on towards what's ahead. He's talking about a process

1354
01:12:24,750 --> 01:12:28,950
S13: of identifying what's dragged him down. Or if you look

1355
01:12:28,950 --> 01:12:31,309
S13: at that passage in context, the very thing that he

1356
01:12:31,310 --> 01:12:34,870
S13: built his life on, and God led him to the

1357
01:12:34,870 --> 01:12:40,150
S13: place of being able to dismantle everything that he built

1358
01:12:40,350 --> 01:12:43,990
S13: to find a sense of security and strength and confidence

1359
01:12:44,229 --> 01:12:46,950
S13: and all that was remaining as the living God. And

1360
01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:51,870
S13: he was able to experience an ongoing sense of of freedom.

1361
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:55,710
S13: You know, I don't really run into people all that

1362
01:12:55,710 --> 01:12:58,910
S13: often that have a hard time talking about emotions. Most

1363
01:12:58,910 --> 01:13:02,550
S13: of these guys are Alaska guys or or really successful

1364
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:04,990
S13: leaders in ministry, and they're just willing to do whatever

1365
01:13:04,990 --> 01:13:08,150
S13: it takes to get free. Like if you've got brake

1366
01:13:08,189 --> 01:13:11,389
S13: issues on your vehicle, you want somebody to come over

1367
01:13:11,390 --> 01:13:14,950
S13: and fix the brakes. And that's what we need to

1368
01:13:14,990 --> 01:13:19,030
S13: look at as we're talking about the deeper work of change.

1369
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:24,019
S13: This isn't about your emotions. Or really, if it's become

1370
01:13:24,020 --> 01:13:28,139
S13: about emotions, it's probably an indicator that there's maybe a

1371
01:13:28,140 --> 01:13:32,019
S13: mask on and that you might be too concerned with

1372
01:13:32,020 --> 01:13:35,420
S13: being seen for who you really are. It's not about

1373
01:13:35,740 --> 01:13:41,620
S13: our emotions, it's about this unabashed honesty. Am I willing

1374
01:13:41,660 --> 01:13:47,019
S13: to be unabashedly all about who I really am, not

1375
01:13:47,060 --> 01:13:50,139
S13: who I'm, how I'm seen or perceived, but who I

1376
01:13:50,140 --> 01:13:52,419
S13: really am? Am I willing to do that work? Because

1377
01:13:52,460 --> 01:13:55,460
S13: I'm telling you right now, that is that is the

1378
01:13:55,460 --> 01:13:58,620
S13: growth work that Jesus is committed to doing. He doesn't

1379
01:13:58,620 --> 01:14:00,939
S13: want us to be these cups that are clean on

1380
01:14:00,939 --> 01:14:04,540
S13: the outside and and filthy on the inside. Yeah, he's

1381
01:14:04,580 --> 01:14:06,900
S13: wanting to do the work so that we're clean on

1382
01:14:06,900 --> 01:14:08,900
S13: the inside. Now, we might be a little bit dirty

1383
01:14:08,900 --> 01:14:11,220
S13: and bunged up on the outside, but the reality is

1384
01:14:11,260 --> 01:14:15,740
S13: the inside is clean and it's being worked on by

1385
01:14:15,740 --> 01:14:18,700
S13: the Savior. That's the real question. Are we allowing. Are

1386
01:14:18,700 --> 01:14:22,680
S13: we willing to allow the living God access to the

1387
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:26,160
S13: deepest parts of who we are? If that produces tears,

1388
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:29,439
S13: let it be. If it's dealing with errant emotion, let

1389
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:31,200
S13: it be. That's the pathway to freedom.

1390
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,400
S3: Yeah. So if you're there, boom crew and you're saying, yeah,

1391
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:36,920
S3: I'm done scrubbing the cup on the outside. I've been

1392
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,360
S3: doing that for years. I'm willing to take a peek

1393
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:42,080
S3: on the inside. Hang on, because we got a link

1394
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,639
S3: for you right now. This is a tool that's going

1395
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:49,759
S3: to take you into a phenomenal season of life right now.

1396
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:53,000
S5: It's going to be a journey of really seeing some

1397
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,960
S5: of these patterns, some of these cycles, ripping out the root.

1398
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,040
S5: It's going to take some time. This is not a

1399
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:01,639
S5: take it and read it in five minutes. You're done.

1400
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:04,720
S5: This is a pretty exhaustive resource that you're going to

1401
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:06,800
S5: need to spend some time with, but it will be

1402
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,919
S5: worth it. Text life if you want it. Text life

1403
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:14,519
S5: to 805 55, 7898. If you want to start on

1404
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:19,240
S5: this journey, text life to 805 55, 7898.