1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,559 S1: What do we learn about God and ourselves from the 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,920 S1: topic of sleep? Have you ever wondered why God designed 3 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,880 S1: us to need sleep? We spend about a third of 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,400 S1: our lives asleep. Why did he design us that way? 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,080 S1: Today with Radio Backyard Fence. I'm going to release the 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,640 S1: McCracken on you. Brent McCracken is back because he's been 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,040 S1: thinking deeply about the wisdom of sleep. And I put 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,800 S1: a question up on Facebook today. We could do the 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,560 S1: whole program just on this. Think about it. Describe the 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,000 S1: best nap you've ever had. When and where did you 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,720 S1: take it? You can call us and answer that question 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:47,479 S1: today or go to Facebook. Our information is at Chris fabry.org. 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,360 S1: You have to hear some of the responses as we 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:57,800 S1: discover how rest reveals God's truth and revives weary souls. 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,920 S1: Do you need some of that today. Let's get started 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,000 S1: with the program. From the heart to the Heart for 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,479 S1: the heart online. Chris Fabry live.org. Our team consists of 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,800 S1: Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. Tricia's our producer. Lisa's 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,839 S1: helping out. Josh will be answering your calls. And this 20 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,920 S1: is the last week in our offer of what is 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,080 S1: probably the most personal thank you we've ever given on 22 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,280 S1: our program. And that is the new book just came 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,620 S1: out a few weeks ago. This is Moody Radio, a 24 00:01:24,620 --> 00:01:28,640 S1: hundred years of proclaiming the gospel through pictures and words. 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,120 S1: It tells the story of a faithful God who used 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,760 S1: flawed people and still does, to teach the word and 27 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,360 S1: reach the world with good news. I would love to 28 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,640 S1: send you a copy of this book. Rosie was here 29 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,720 S1: on Friday. Ryan gave her a copy and she wrote 30 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,840 S1: me this morning and gushed about this book, partly because 31 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,440 S1: she knew and worked with many of the people in 32 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,400 S1: radio through the years, beginning in the late 60s, she said. 33 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,680 S1: I found my name, Chris. I found my name and 34 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,610 S1: it surprised her. Call or click through with a gift. 35 00:01:59,770 --> 00:02:02,970 S1: You'll see what I'm talking about. Go to Chris fabry.org. 36 00:02:03,010 --> 00:02:05,610 S1: Scroll down. You'll see how to give a gift, a 37 00:02:05,610 --> 00:02:10,010 S1: one time gift, or a monthly gift. Chris Fabry. FABRY 38 00:02:10,050 --> 00:02:16,130 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Or call us at 86695 Fabry. Be 39 00:02:16,169 --> 00:02:19,450 S1: as generous as you can for this picture filled book, 40 00:02:19,730 --> 00:02:28,209 S1: but reach out today. The offer ends this Friday, (866) 953-2279. 41 00:02:28,210 --> 00:02:32,609 S1: And tomorrow's the big day. July 28th, 1926, Moody radio. 42 00:02:32,610 --> 00:02:35,250 S1: First one on the air. Don't miss the party at 43 00:02:35,250 --> 00:02:39,210 S1: the back fence tomorrow. Brett McCracken is an author and 44 00:02:39,210 --> 00:02:42,410 S1: journalist who serves as senior editor, a senior editor at 45 00:02:42,410 --> 00:02:45,010 S1: the Gospel Coalition, where he writes on the intersection of 46 00:02:45,010 --> 00:02:47,930 S1: faith and culture. He's the author of such books as 47 00:02:47,930 --> 00:02:53,450 S1: The Wisdom Pyramid, uncomfortable co-editor of Scrolling Ourselves to Death 48 00:02:53,610 --> 00:02:57,210 S1: Reclaiming Life in a Digital age, lives in Santa Ana, 49 00:02:57,210 --> 00:03:00,970 S1: California with his wife and four children. A resource today, 50 00:03:00,970 --> 00:03:04,930 S1: the new book that releases next week, The Wisdom of 51 00:03:04,970 --> 00:03:11,290 S1: Sleep How Rest, reveals God's truth and revives weary souls. Brandt. 52 00:03:11,290 --> 00:03:12,889 S1: Welcome back. How are you doing today? 53 00:03:13,850 --> 00:03:16,329 S2: Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me back. I'm doing great. 54 00:03:17,169 --> 00:03:22,050 S1: You say that naps are a signpost of something far 55 00:03:22,050 --> 00:03:25,570 S1: greater than we've not yet fully experienced. Or at least 56 00:03:25,570 --> 00:03:29,010 S1: you asked the question, could they be a signpost? What 57 00:03:29,010 --> 00:03:30,010 S1: do you mean by that? 58 00:03:30,410 --> 00:03:34,770 S2: Mhm. Yeah. I think the first line of the book 59 00:03:34,770 --> 00:03:39,090 S2: is something like, sometimes I wonder if heaven will feel 60 00:03:39,090 --> 00:03:41,930 S2: a bit like an afternoon nap. And it's a bit 61 00:03:41,930 --> 00:03:44,650 S2: cheeky to start the book that way, but there's, there's 62 00:03:44,690 --> 00:03:49,410 S2: a sincere, um, you know, wondering on my part in 63 00:03:49,450 --> 00:03:53,210 S2: that statement, because I think part of what interested me 64 00:03:53,210 --> 00:03:56,130 S2: in this topic of writing about sleep from a Christian 65 00:03:56,170 --> 00:04:00,369 S2: kind of deep theological level was just personally like when 66 00:04:00,370 --> 00:04:05,850 S2: I experience a good sleep, whether it's a nap or 67 00:04:05,970 --> 00:04:10,410 S2: just a good restorative night's sleep, there's something that, um, 68 00:04:10,530 --> 00:04:16,330 S2: inflames my heart with desire and appreciation and worship for God, 69 00:04:16,370 --> 00:04:20,690 S2: you know, thank you, God, for creating this, this experience, 70 00:04:20,690 --> 00:04:26,690 S2: this built in rhythm of nightly repose and the occasional 71 00:04:26,690 --> 00:04:30,650 S2: afternoon nap. And I think there's just some things, some 72 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:33,530 S2: aspects of sleep and we can get into them. But like, 73 00:04:33,970 --> 00:04:38,850 S2: you know, I feel like it's this portal into eternity, right? 74 00:04:38,890 --> 00:04:41,969 S2: Time does weird things when you're sleeping. You, you can 75 00:04:41,970 --> 00:04:45,650 S2: go to sleep and wake up eight hours later, but 76 00:04:45,650 --> 00:04:49,370 S2: it felt like 30s or it felt like ten years 77 00:04:49,370 --> 00:04:52,890 S2: that you were sleeping. And so I feel like in 78 00:04:52,930 --> 00:04:58,570 S2: the experience of sleeping, there's this, um, this temporary escape 79 00:04:58,570 --> 00:05:05,409 S2: from a time bound, kind of hustle oriented experience of life, uh, 80 00:05:05,410 --> 00:05:07,850 S2: in this, in the now. And we get a little 81 00:05:07,890 --> 00:05:10,930 S2: bit of a foretaste of the not yet the eternal 82 00:05:10,930 --> 00:05:13,330 S2: rest that we will have in God's presence. 83 00:05:13,370 --> 00:05:15,090 S3: Yes. I want to read you. 84 00:05:15,450 --> 00:05:18,770 S1: Uh, one of these. Ron said this on Facebook. What's 85 00:05:18,770 --> 00:05:21,250 S1: the best nap you ever had? Where were you? A 86 00:05:21,250 --> 00:05:24,730 S1: family Christmas gathering. My wife's family used to gather this Sunday. 87 00:05:24,730 --> 00:05:28,130 S1: Before we'd go. We'd have a meal, maybe a Secret 88 00:05:28,130 --> 00:05:31,650 S1: Santa gift exchange. Then we'd all just settle in and visit. 89 00:05:31,930 --> 00:05:35,850 S1: I managed to snag one of the one of the recliners. 90 00:05:36,010 --> 00:05:39,930 S1: I didn't recline, but the next thing I knew, my 91 00:05:39,930 --> 00:05:42,089 S1: wife was waking me up, telling me it was time 92 00:05:42,089 --> 00:05:46,330 S1: to go home. I had slept for four hours. Nobody 93 00:05:46,330 --> 00:05:50,460 S1: bothered me. Now there's something in there about that. that 94 00:05:50,460 --> 00:05:52,220 S1: rest that you're talking about isn't there? 95 00:05:52,420 --> 00:05:56,020 S2: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And as a parent of, you know, 96 00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:59,700 S2: four little kids now, I really, I relate to the, the, 97 00:05:59,700 --> 00:06:04,180 S2: the gift of a when like the whole house is 98 00:06:04,180 --> 00:06:08,820 S2: quiet sometimes, like the stars align in our household and 99 00:06:08,860 --> 00:06:12,300 S2: like all four of our kids are napping at the 100 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:16,460 S2: same time. It rarely happens. But when it does, I 101 00:06:16,620 --> 00:06:19,340 S2: seize that moment myself to like, lay down on the 102 00:06:19,339 --> 00:06:22,260 S2: couch and try to get my own nap in. And 103 00:06:22,260 --> 00:06:24,620 S2: it feels like such a gift. You know, no one. 104 00:06:24,620 --> 00:06:27,340 S2: None of my kids are bothering me. They don't need anything. 105 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:30,580 S2: Everyone in the house is resting, and it's just this 106 00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:35,740 S2: beautiful peace that sets in in an otherwise hectic life. 107 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:36,419 S3: Yes. 108 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:39,500 S1: Julianna said, years ago, after I was married, I was 109 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:42,500 S1: at my parents home and wasn't feeling very well. My 110 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:44,659 S1: mom told me to go lay down for a bit. 111 00:06:44,700 --> 00:06:47,700 S1: I did. It was late morning or early afternoon. The 112 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:50,099 S1: sun was coming through the window. See, I love that 113 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:52,980 S1: how people are remembering. You know what it was like outside. 114 00:06:53,220 --> 00:06:55,540 S1: She said it felt so good, the beds so comfortable 115 00:06:55,540 --> 00:07:00,700 S1: and mom's gentle hand on my forehead and soothing voice. 116 00:07:00,860 --> 00:07:03,220 S1: I don't know how long I slept, but it was 117 00:07:03,220 --> 00:07:06,500 S1: so nice. And it's the one I remember from time 118 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:10,540 S1: to time. So there's something about there's it's like, like 119 00:07:10,580 --> 00:07:13,780 S1: a nap like that. There is a personal connection that 120 00:07:13,780 --> 00:07:17,420 S1: she had with her mother's comfort. Right? 121 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:21,780 S2: Yes, I love that. I think it's so interesting that 122 00:07:21,780 --> 00:07:26,700 S2: we have such specific, detailed memories of those, those moments. 123 00:07:26,700 --> 00:07:33,620 S2: It just speaks to the unexpected significance, almost spiritual significance that, um, 124 00:07:33,660 --> 00:07:37,220 S2: an experience of sleep can have for us. I talk 125 00:07:37,260 --> 00:07:39,660 S2: about a few of my own nap memories in the 126 00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:44,540 S2: first pages of my book. And like one, one detail 127 00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:48,580 S2: that I remember from one of them is this cabin 128 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:51,900 S2: in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, at a family camp that we 129 00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:56,100 S2: would go to every July growing up. And that week 130 00:07:56,100 --> 00:08:00,220 S2: of my childhood was always kind of a spiritually rich week. 131 00:08:00,220 --> 00:08:04,140 S2: It was like there was, you know, worship multiple times 132 00:08:04,140 --> 00:08:07,700 S2: a day. And we were with fellow believers. And it 133 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:11,180 S2: was a beautiful place. But I remember like sometimes, sometimes 134 00:08:11,220 --> 00:08:16,900 S2: on hot, humid, kind of Midwestern Wisconsin afternoons in July, 135 00:08:17,500 --> 00:08:20,740 S2: I would go into my parents cabin and no one 136 00:08:20,740 --> 00:08:22,460 S2: would be there but me. I would turn on one 137 00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:25,980 S2: of those fans that's like a floor fan. And even 138 00:08:25,980 --> 00:08:29,780 S2: the sound that it made, you know, was soothing. And 139 00:08:30,020 --> 00:08:32,420 S2: when it would hit your face, you wouldn't feel quite 140 00:08:32,420 --> 00:08:35,860 S2: as sticky and hot. And I remember having naps in 141 00:08:35,900 --> 00:08:39,980 S2: that environment and just feeling how beautiful that was. 142 00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:44,420 S1: I remember just you saying that. I remember this big 143 00:08:44,460 --> 00:08:46,860 S1: fan that we used to big metal fan that was 144 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:49,740 S1: on the floor. But I mean, the thing is, this 145 00:08:49,740 --> 00:08:51,579 S1: is not one you'd want to put your fingers in 146 00:08:51,620 --> 00:08:54,660 S1: as a child or an adult either. And then, you know, 147 00:08:54,700 --> 00:08:57,340 S1: you could yell into it and you'd hear your voice 148 00:08:57,380 --> 00:09:01,140 S1: reverberating in the blades, but lying in front of that 149 00:09:01,140 --> 00:09:03,860 S1: fan on the floor and going to sleep with that wind. 150 00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:06,100 S1: And because we didn't have air conditioning at the time, 151 00:09:06,340 --> 00:09:10,380 S1: and just that feeling of sleep. Well, Cheryl talks about 152 00:09:10,380 --> 00:09:12,620 S1: this too. She says, I never napped, but after spending 153 00:09:12,660 --> 00:09:15,980 S1: two weeks in Alaska, I fell asleep on the Alaska 154 00:09:15,980 --> 00:09:20,100 S1: Railroad going from Seward, Alaska, to Anchorage. My daughter could 155 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:23,460 S1: not believe I slept for two hours. My daughter has 156 00:09:23,460 --> 00:09:26,260 S1: never seen me fall asleep or take a nap in 157 00:09:26,260 --> 00:09:30,460 S1: 40 years. And she did it there in Alaska. So 158 00:09:30,460 --> 00:09:33,580 S1: there's something about this. But we're not just talking about 159 00:09:33,620 --> 00:09:38,020 S1: naps today at the backyard fence. There's something more that 160 00:09:38,020 --> 00:09:41,580 S1: we're discussing with Brett McCracken. Next week, his book, The 161 00:09:41,580 --> 00:09:47,550 S1: Wisdom of Sleep releases how rest reveals God's truth and 162 00:09:47,550 --> 00:09:51,069 S1: revives weary souls. You can find it at the website. 163 00:09:51,070 --> 00:09:57,630 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Chris fabry.org. Why does our culture, though, 164 00:09:57,670 --> 00:10:02,150 S1: have an aversion to rest and to sleep? We'll talk 165 00:10:02,150 --> 00:10:15,150 S1: about that straight ahead on Moody Radio. Brett McCracken of 166 00:10:15,150 --> 00:10:17,910 S1: the Gospel Coalition is with us today. The Wisdom of 167 00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:21,510 S1: Sleep is his latest. It releases next week. You find 168 00:10:21,510 --> 00:10:28,150 S1: out more@chris.org. Chris Fabry live.org. And if you have a 169 00:10:28,150 --> 00:10:32,870 S1: memory about your favorite nap of all time, I'd love 170 00:10:32,870 --> 00:10:35,750 S1: to hear it. You go on Facebook and respond, or 171 00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:37,910 S1: you can give us a call today at any point 172 00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:41,550 S1: and tell us about your favorite nap, where it was, 173 00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:44,429 S1: when it was, why it stuck with you that you think. 174 00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:47,190 S1: Or if you have another question along these lines, as 175 00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:51,230 S1: we think about ourselves and God and what we learn 176 00:10:51,230 --> 00:11:01,390 S1: from this topic of sleep. (877) 548-3675. Our number (877) 548-3675. I 177 00:11:01,390 --> 00:11:04,950 S1: have to read Robin's response. She says, about 25 years ago, 178 00:11:04,950 --> 00:11:08,710 S1: I fell asleep, stretched out alone with a good book 179 00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:11,750 S1: on the bow of a 125 foot Hatteras off the 180 00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:16,390 S1: coast of Florida. We were but four passengers, all people 181 00:11:16,390 --> 00:11:19,429 S1: I knew well. With a capable captain at the helm, 182 00:11:19,830 --> 00:11:24,750 S1: the boat felt wonderfully quiet and perfectly safe. The sun 183 00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:27,910 S1: was warm but not too hot, and a soft breeze 184 00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:32,990 S1: came across the water. I woke to dolphins playing alongside us. 185 00:11:33,470 --> 00:11:39,390 S1: No nap has ever come close, Brett. That's that memory. 186 00:11:39,470 --> 00:11:42,550 S1: I can understand why this would stick with Robin, can't you? 187 00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:45,829 S2: Right, right. Well, just the way that Robin writes about 188 00:11:45,830 --> 00:11:47,950 S2: it is beautiful. So it must have been a beautiful 189 00:11:47,950 --> 00:11:51,189 S2: memory to inspire that description. Wow. 190 00:11:51,710 --> 00:11:55,309 S1: You say in this book that we in our culture, though, 191 00:11:55,710 --> 00:11:59,470 S1: we have a low view of sleep. Why? 192 00:11:59,830 --> 00:12:04,189 S2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is kind of why 193 00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:08,910 S2: I wanted to write a book about Sleep Now. I mean, sleep, obviously, 194 00:12:08,910 --> 00:12:12,390 S2: is a timeless topic. Something humans have always done, always 195 00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:15,070 S2: will do. And so I hope that a lot of 196 00:12:15,070 --> 00:12:19,590 S2: this book is, you know, evergreen and helpful decades from now. 197 00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:23,190 S2: But I do think right now in our culture, especially 198 00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:27,670 S2: our technological moment that we are in, we, we are 199 00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:33,830 S2: very kind of optimization minded, very productivity obsessed because we 200 00:12:33,830 --> 00:12:37,350 S2: have this ability through the internet, which is always on 201 00:12:37,710 --> 00:12:40,510 S2: with our smartphones, which are always, you know, just an 202 00:12:40,510 --> 00:12:44,590 S2: arm's reach away. We can be productive all the time 203 00:12:44,590 --> 00:12:48,309 S2: if we want to be. We can consume content on 204 00:12:48,309 --> 00:12:52,510 S2: Netflix or, you know, Amazon all night if we want to. 205 00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:56,790 S2: Like there's no end to the sorts of things we 206 00:12:56,790 --> 00:13:00,590 S2: can do, the sorts of things we can produce, consume, 207 00:13:00,990 --> 00:13:04,870 S2: and sleep can feel like an intrusion to that. A 208 00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:08,910 S2: forced pause. Where we are, we are choosing to to 209 00:13:08,950 --> 00:13:12,030 S2: not be productive when we could do that. So I 210 00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:14,670 S2: think some people today just feel like, you know, sleep 211 00:13:14,670 --> 00:13:17,709 S2: is a necessary evil. It's something that they know they 212 00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:20,750 S2: have to do to survive, but they try to get 213 00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:24,630 S2: the bare minimum in order to, you know, uh, not 214 00:13:24,630 --> 00:13:27,790 S2: fall asleep at the wheel or whatever. Um, and I 215 00:13:27,790 --> 00:13:30,990 S2: think that's a real shame because sleep is such a gift. 216 00:13:30,990 --> 00:13:34,270 S2: And for all the reasons I get into in the book, it's, 217 00:13:34,309 --> 00:13:36,760 S2: it's something that can also be a teacher of great 218 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,200 S2: wisdom to us. If we see it that way and 219 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,600 S2: don't have a low, a low view that relegates it 220 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,200 S2: to kind of a necessary evil sort of thing. 221 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,440 S1: You talked about our technological age. We are bent on 222 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:56,920 S1: anesthetizing our ache for Eden with elixirs of amusement and stimulants. 223 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:03,559 S1: Stimulants of optimized time. Life under the sun feels especially hot. Oh, 224 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,080 S1: how we need shade. And that's what sleep does for us, right? 225 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,200 S2: Yeah. I think, you know, especially because of how overstimulated 226 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,120 S2: we are in the digital age and even on a 227 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,440 S2: on a cognitive health level, there's lots of science about 228 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,240 S2: how our poor brains in the digital age are just 229 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:31,720 S2: so overwhelmed and exhausted by the constant stream of media 230 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,800 S2: and information, you know, coming at it all day. We 231 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,320 S2: need that rest more than ever. We need the. The 232 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:43,360 S2: pause of sleep for not only our our brains to 233 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:49,480 S2: rest and recover and gather themselves, but also for our souls. 234 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,520 S2: You know, I don't think it's good for our souls 235 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:57,400 S2: to be overstimulated with a lot of times really anxiety 236 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,760 S2: inducing headlines and news and media and content. Like we 237 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,280 S2: need to, we need that spacious place, that kind of 238 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,960 S2: you see a lot in the Psalms where like our 239 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,400 S2: soul finds rest in you alone. Um, and coming into 240 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,760 S2: God's presence and just being still and knowing He is God. 241 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,840 S2: We just need more of that in our, in our lives, 242 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,160 S2: in the digital age. And I think you can do 243 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,240 S2: that on Sabbath. You can do that in moments during 244 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,120 S2: your day where you choose to just be still and 245 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,040 S2: not be scrolling. Or you can also choose to do 246 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,200 S2: it by prioritizing sleep at night and having at least 247 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,760 S2: 7 or 8 hours of, um, of resting in the 248 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,600 S2: goodness and the grace and the sovereignty of God. 249 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:44,440 S3: Yes. 250 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,360 S1: And so much of what the algorithm does, what we 251 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,800 S1: see on the internet is to pull us in with 252 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,360 S1: things that stir us up, that show conflict, that show 253 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,480 S1: the negative, that show the thing that happens, that makes 254 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,520 S1: you feel, oh, that's terrible, and how could they do that? 255 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,440 S1: And you know, the one politician on one side will 256 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,880 S1: say something and the other will say something else. And 257 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,360 S1: so it gets you into this vortex of angst that 258 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,479 S1: we are so much in. So it takes a conscious 259 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,560 S1: choice to remove yourself from the stirring up that is 260 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,160 S1: being done in the world, especially on the internet. 261 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,280 S2: Yes. Yeah. It's a conscious choice. And the algorithm is 262 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,840 S2: is powerful because it figures you out. And it's a 263 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:40,040 S2: very seductive kind of, uh, siren song of temptation. And 264 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,200 S2: I think we have to just put things in place 265 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,880 S2: that will make it possible for us to resist that temptation. So, 266 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,200 S2: I mean, one very practical thing I have tried to 267 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,200 S2: do that I recommend is, you know, don't have your 268 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,600 S2: phone at your bedside. Like when you are getting ready 269 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,920 S2: to go to bed, put your phone like charge it 270 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,000 S2: in another room and then go into your bedroom without 271 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,480 S2: a device and let yourself kind of drift into sleep 272 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,560 S2: without that temptation to be scrolling on your phone as 273 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,320 S2: the last thing you do in waking life that day. 274 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,680 S2: Because whenever you're scrolling right before bed, it's bad for you. 275 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,680 S2: There's science that is showing that your sleep is has 276 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,359 S2: a worse quality. If you are looking at devices right 277 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,369 S2: before you go to sleep. It's not just the the 278 00:17:30,369 --> 00:17:34,210 S2: LED light that's a problem. It's just the content of 279 00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:37,490 S2: the like you're saying the the things that inflame your 280 00:17:37,490 --> 00:17:40,770 S2: anger or make you anxious that you're seeing come across 281 00:17:40,770 --> 00:17:41,490 S2: your feed. 282 00:17:41,890 --> 00:17:42,410 S3: Yes. 283 00:17:42,609 --> 00:17:47,490 S1: I remember asking, uh, J.I. Packer what he reads before 284 00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:51,010 S1: he goes to bed because I said, um, as I recall, 285 00:17:51,010 --> 00:17:56,129 S1: I said, I picture you with Calvin's institutes floating above your, 286 00:17:56,290 --> 00:17:58,609 S1: you know, suspended above your bed so that all you 287 00:17:58,609 --> 00:18:01,010 S1: have to do is turn the page and read. And 288 00:18:01,010 --> 00:18:03,250 S1: he kind of chuckled and he said, no, no, I like, 289 00:18:03,290 --> 00:18:06,010 S1: you know, in his British accent, I like mysteries. I'll 290 00:18:06,010 --> 00:18:09,290 S1: read an Agatha Christie. I'll read something. He said, I've 291 00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:13,730 S1: got to do something lighter that gets me out of that, 292 00:18:13,770 --> 00:18:16,330 S1: you know, the thinking, the big thoughts about the big 293 00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:19,170 S1: things so that I can then slip off to sleep. 294 00:18:20,050 --> 00:18:23,890 S2: Yeah, I think that's great advice. And I think reading 295 00:18:23,890 --> 00:18:27,570 S2: pleasure reading books in bed right before you go to sleep. 296 00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:32,129 S2: Physical books is a really great habit to kind of 297 00:18:32,170 --> 00:18:36,210 S2: ease yourself, relax your mind a little bit, ease yourself 298 00:18:36,210 --> 00:18:40,810 S2: into sleep. I also think just, just kind of thinking 299 00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:45,250 S2: thoughts about gratitude to God. That's a that's a practice 300 00:18:45,250 --> 00:18:49,010 S2: that I've tried to do as I've written this book and, 301 00:18:49,250 --> 00:18:54,050 S2: and learned more about good sleep habits. What you think 302 00:18:54,050 --> 00:18:57,450 S2: about in the final moments of your day before you 303 00:18:57,450 --> 00:19:00,250 S2: go to sleep actually has a lot of power to 304 00:19:00,609 --> 00:19:04,090 S2: kind of set the course for your dream, your dreaming content, 305 00:19:04,090 --> 00:19:08,050 S2: your sleep quality. And so, you know, one small thing 306 00:19:08,050 --> 00:19:10,250 S2: that I've tried to do is just in those, in 307 00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:13,169 S2: those few minutes of like laying my head down on 308 00:19:13,170 --> 00:19:16,689 S2: my pillow and drifting away into sleep, I try to 309 00:19:16,690 --> 00:19:19,850 S2: just like, rehearse like the things in my day that 310 00:19:19,850 --> 00:19:22,730 S2: I'm grateful for, or just the things in my life 311 00:19:22,730 --> 00:19:25,850 S2: that I'm grateful for and, and give God kind of 312 00:19:25,890 --> 00:19:28,970 S2: credit and glory for that. It's just a pleasant thought 313 00:19:28,970 --> 00:19:30,490 S2: to kind of end my day on. 314 00:19:31,450 --> 00:19:32,130 S3: This is a really. 315 00:19:32,130 --> 00:19:37,370 S1: Good book, and we have a link to it@kris.org. It's 316 00:19:37,369 --> 00:19:41,050 S1: titled The Wisdom of Sleep doesn't come out until next Tuesday. 317 00:19:41,570 --> 00:19:45,690 S1: Subtitled How Rest Reveals God's Truth and Revives Weary Souls. 318 00:19:45,690 --> 00:19:49,170 S1: So there's the practical here. But then the philosophical, as 319 00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:51,409 S1: you start to think about some of the things that 320 00:19:51,410 --> 00:19:55,530 S1: Brett McCracken has written about, I think it will really 321 00:19:55,570 --> 00:20:00,169 S1: encourage you and help you as you think deeply about 322 00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:03,730 S1: the goodness of God and how he has designed us. 323 00:20:03,930 --> 00:20:05,929 S1: And one of those things is naps. I want to 324 00:20:05,930 --> 00:20:08,970 S1: talk with Tom in Pennsylvania. Tom, why did you call today? 325 00:20:10,410 --> 00:20:13,889 S4: Uh, I have a story about naps, and I have 326 00:20:13,930 --> 00:20:18,570 S4: a question for the guest. Um, two summers in, in 327 00:20:18,609 --> 00:20:21,409 S4: my high school years, I worked at a Christian summer 328 00:20:21,410 --> 00:20:26,410 S4: church camp, and I get home early on Saturday afternoons 329 00:20:26,410 --> 00:20:30,530 S4: and just crash, and all I remember is hitting the 330 00:20:30,530 --> 00:20:34,690 S4: bed and. And it's the best snaps I ever had, 331 00:20:34,690 --> 00:20:38,369 S4: probably about 6 or 7 each summer. And, you know, 332 00:20:38,410 --> 00:20:44,050 S4: just a few years before that, I hated naps, you know? So, uh, 333 00:20:44,210 --> 00:20:47,730 S4: that's the story. And the question is, I'm thinking of 334 00:20:47,730 --> 00:20:51,610 S4: Jesus resurrection body. And I don't think there's any passages 335 00:20:51,609 --> 00:20:55,330 S4: about sleep that I can think of. After his resurrection, 336 00:20:55,330 --> 00:20:58,930 S4: I wondered if the guests want thinks there will be 337 00:20:58,930 --> 00:20:59,850 S4: sleep in heaven. 338 00:21:00,330 --> 00:21:01,690 S3: Great question. 339 00:21:01,930 --> 00:21:03,850 S1: Oh, have you thought about that, Brett? 340 00:21:04,290 --> 00:21:07,930 S2: Yeah, yeah, I have thought about that. And, you know, 341 00:21:07,970 --> 00:21:11,810 S2: I always hesitate to speculate about details of heaven because 342 00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:15,250 S2: so much is just unknowable about that. But I mean, 343 00:21:15,250 --> 00:21:19,290 S2: one thing that we do know from Scripture about heaven 344 00:21:19,290 --> 00:21:21,940 S2: is that there will be no more night. You know 345 00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:25,219 S2: those verses that talk about like, there will be no 346 00:21:25,220 --> 00:21:27,260 S2: more morning. There'll be no more sadness. There'll be no 347 00:21:27,260 --> 00:21:29,540 S2: more night. Christ will be our light, you know, and 348 00:21:29,540 --> 00:21:33,060 S2: it'll be a perpetual light in heaven. So that makes 349 00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:35,940 S2: it that makes me wonder. Like, how will if we 350 00:21:35,940 --> 00:21:38,859 S2: do sleep, how would that happen if it's constantly light 351 00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:41,980 S2: outside and there's no, like, you know, night and day 352 00:21:42,020 --> 00:21:46,659 S2: cycle because so much of our circadian rhythm and the 353 00:21:46,660 --> 00:21:50,700 S2: way that God designed us in this life on earth 354 00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:54,540 S2: depends on that cycle of darkness. And our bodies are 355 00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:58,260 S2: triggered to sleep because the darkness sets in and we're 356 00:21:58,260 --> 00:22:02,340 S2: triggered to wake up because of the sunrise. But my 357 00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:05,980 S2: sense is heaven will kind of be an eternal sunrise, 358 00:22:05,980 --> 00:22:09,300 S2: if you will, you know, a that beautiful kind of 359 00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:13,300 S2: light that never sets. So yeah, I think, I think 360 00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:17,260 S2: we'll have the feeling of rest and restoration. So the 361 00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,660 S2: benefits that sleep gives us, I think that will be 362 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:23,580 S2: our our permanent state of feeling. But I don't know 363 00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:27,419 S2: that we'll need to sleep in terms of needing a 364 00:22:27,420 --> 00:22:29,100 S2: boost of renewed energy. 365 00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:34,220 S1: HMM. Interesting. It is. And to think about food because 366 00:22:34,220 --> 00:22:36,060 S1: there's going to be the marriage supper of the Lamb. 367 00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:39,500 S1: Why would you have a great dinner if you couldn't eat? 368 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,100 S1: And you see Jesus, you know, making the fish on 369 00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:45,580 S1: the shore and eating with the disciples. And so there's 370 00:22:45,580 --> 00:22:48,940 S1: going to be eating in heaven. And but, but I'd 371 00:22:48,940 --> 00:22:52,100 S1: never really thought about, okay, so we're going to do 372 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:54,379 S1: we need eight hours of sleep in heaven? No, we're 373 00:22:54,380 --> 00:22:56,859 S1: not going to need it. Will we want will we 374 00:22:56,859 --> 00:23:00,660 S1: have rest, though? Yes. What will that be like? And 375 00:23:00,660 --> 00:23:02,820 S1: there it gets into the mystery of, you know, what 376 00:23:02,820 --> 00:23:05,220 S1: is what is heaven really like, right? 377 00:23:05,619 --> 00:23:09,100 S2: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, it's related to 378 00:23:09,140 --> 00:23:11,780 S2: the question of will we work in heaven? There's there's 379 00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:15,700 S2: always discussion about that. Um, it's clear that we won't 380 00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:20,220 S2: have kind of the type of work that is toilsome, 381 00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:24,660 S2: you know, the labor that feels like vanity. Um, but, um, 382 00:23:24,859 --> 00:23:26,900 S2: will we be able, will we do a form of 383 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:31,260 S2: work that feels like, um, fulfilling to us and like 384 00:23:31,260 --> 00:23:33,740 S2: that type of work that almost feels restful in a, 385 00:23:33,740 --> 00:23:37,100 S2: in a weird paradoxical sense. Yes. I think, I think 386 00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:39,980 S2: we will serve, you know, the living God in our 387 00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:42,580 S2: midst in, in kind of a form of work that 388 00:23:42,580 --> 00:23:46,300 S2: is worship and has none of the thorns and thistles 389 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:49,260 S2: that work has in this experience. Now. 390 00:23:49,820 --> 00:23:52,139 S1: Before we go to our break, I want you to 391 00:23:52,180 --> 00:23:54,780 S1: respond to the people who are saying, you don't know 392 00:23:54,780 --> 00:23:58,899 S1: how much I need sleep and I want to sleep, 393 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:02,300 S1: and I am having problems getting sleep and hearing you 394 00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:05,979 S1: talk about, you know, the beauty of sleep is making 395 00:24:05,980 --> 00:24:08,460 S1: me feel like this is a punch in the gut 396 00:24:08,460 --> 00:24:10,780 S1: for me. So what do you say to those people? 397 00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:15,780 S2: Totally. Yeah. I mean, I just hear you like I 398 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:19,660 S2: think that sleep struggles are really, really hard and they're 399 00:24:19,660 --> 00:24:23,060 S2: so common. You know, it's, it's one of the greatest 400 00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:28,020 S2: gifts that God gives. I think sleep, but, um, every 401 00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:31,219 S2: good gift is marred, you know, in our fallen world 402 00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:36,380 S2: and even things that were perfect in their original design, uh, 403 00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:40,260 S2: like sleep now they are kind of in bondage to decay. 404 00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:45,460 S2: They're groaning for restoration, as Romans eight tells us. So. 405 00:24:45,980 --> 00:24:48,300 S2: So yeah, I think what I would say is the, 406 00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:51,859 S2: the groaning of sleep that you experience if you struggle 407 00:24:51,859 --> 00:24:56,940 S2: with sleep is hard. And just acknowledging that is important. 408 00:24:56,940 --> 00:25:00,419 S2: But I think it can also remind you of the 409 00:25:00,460 --> 00:25:04,139 S2: perfect rest to come, right? The hope that we have 410 00:25:04,540 --> 00:25:09,139 S2: by Christ's death and resurrection, that the, the, the perfect 411 00:25:09,140 --> 00:25:13,980 S2: rest that feels so elusive. Now we will have that 412 00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:17,869 S2: one time. We will experience that. And so the present 413 00:25:17,869 --> 00:25:21,790 S2: imperfection of sleep that so many of us experience, I think, 414 00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:26,830 S2: can really inflame our hearts to long for that perfect 415 00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:29,070 S2: rest that will be ours one day. 416 00:25:29,109 --> 00:25:35,670 S1: Yes, that's your thesis. Our rest points to God's glory. 417 00:25:35,670 --> 00:25:39,149 S1: So what about the gospel and rest? We're going to 418 00:25:39,150 --> 00:25:45,030 S1: talk about that and take your calls. (877) 548-3675. Brett McCracken 419 00:25:45,030 --> 00:25:48,150 S1: has written The Wisdom of Sleep. So our featured resource 420 00:25:48,150 --> 00:26:05,070 S1: at Chris Fabry live.org. Chris Fabry live.org. Brett McCracken has 421 00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:09,310 S1: written written The Wisdom of Sleep as our featured resource 422 00:26:09,310 --> 00:26:12,030 S1: at Chris Fabry live.org. And we were talking in the 423 00:26:12,030 --> 00:26:16,750 S1: break about these great nap stories. Here's another one from Facebook. 424 00:26:16,790 --> 00:26:21,470 S1: I took a mission trip to Russia in 1992, Beverly says. 425 00:26:21,710 --> 00:26:24,950 S1: We went to one of the iconic Russian homes. The 426 00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:27,990 S1: people of Russia were always so concerned for our comfort, 427 00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:31,470 S1: be it temperature or rest. We didn't share a language, 428 00:26:31,470 --> 00:26:35,310 S1: but we shared the same needs. I was ushered into 429 00:26:35,310 --> 00:26:39,710 S1: a bright lace curtained room with a twin bed. I 430 00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:44,150 S1: had the most refreshing sleep there. My husband, alas, had 431 00:26:44,150 --> 00:26:47,510 S1: to stretch out on the floor. What a memory. But 432 00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:51,190 S1: there it is again, remembering that you know this. This 433 00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:56,550 S1: almost this soul desire for rest. And that's where I 434 00:26:56,550 --> 00:26:59,510 S1: want to go in the as we begin this segment, Brett. 435 00:26:59,510 --> 00:27:04,270 S1: And that is the scene on the. The storm tossed 436 00:27:04,270 --> 00:27:09,190 S1: waves on the Sea of Galilee and Jesus asleep in 437 00:27:09,230 --> 00:27:12,950 S1: the boat. and I part of me has always looked 438 00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:16,710 S1: at this and wondered, you know, was Jesus really tired 439 00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:19,510 S1: or was some people would say he's kind of pretending 440 00:27:19,550 --> 00:27:21,869 S1: to sleep and letting the disciples freak out so he 441 00:27:21,869 --> 00:27:24,189 S1: can get up and teach him a lesson. It's like, no, 442 00:27:24,190 --> 00:27:26,310 S1: I don't think so. I think I think he was 443 00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:28,710 S1: really tired there. What do you think? 444 00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:34,390 S2: Mhm, mhm. Yeah. I mean, whatever the situation, you know, 445 00:27:34,430 --> 00:27:36,590 S2: whether he was just really tired or just needed a 446 00:27:36,590 --> 00:27:39,790 S2: nap for different reasons, like he slept. And it's the 447 00:27:39,790 --> 00:27:44,230 S2: one time in Scripture that we're told specifically that Jesus slept. 448 00:27:44,270 --> 00:27:47,030 S2: You know, we can assume that he slept every night 449 00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:50,390 S2: because he was fully human. And that's what humans, you know, 450 00:27:50,430 --> 00:27:53,190 S2: need to do. But this is the one scene in 451 00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:57,190 S2: Scripture that makes a point of saying, Jesus was asleep. 452 00:27:57,190 --> 00:28:00,430 S2: His head was on a cushion, you know, in the 453 00:28:00,470 --> 00:28:03,510 S2: on the stern of the boat as it was being 454 00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:08,830 S2: rollicked around, almost tipping over. Um, and the disciples are 455 00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:11,510 S2: freaking out and saying like, Jesus, why don't do you 456 00:28:11,550 --> 00:28:13,310 S2: not care about this? Like, do you not care if 457 00:28:13,310 --> 00:28:16,270 S2: we drown? And he just all he does is rebuke 458 00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:20,350 S2: the waves. And then they're still and, you know, everything 459 00:28:20,390 --> 00:28:25,350 S2: calms down. Um, even the wind and the waves obey him. Uh, 460 00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:28,230 S2: which is such a powerful truth. So yeah, I think 461 00:28:28,270 --> 00:28:31,550 S2: it's a good it's a good reminder of, I think 462 00:28:31,550 --> 00:28:35,109 S2: what we're all called to do is to be a 463 00:28:35,150 --> 00:28:38,870 S2: non-anxious presence in the storms of life. Jesus can do 464 00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:42,030 S2: it perfectly because he's the perfect human and he has 465 00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:46,510 S2: perfect trust in his father. You know, he can sleep 466 00:28:46,830 --> 00:28:51,910 S2: during the storm because he knows God the Father is awake. 467 00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:56,190 S2: And that's the same truth. I think that should lead 468 00:28:56,190 --> 00:29:00,030 S2: each of us to hopefully be able to sleep easier 469 00:29:00,150 --> 00:29:03,550 S2: and to rest more in life, because we have just 470 00:29:03,550 --> 00:29:08,160 S2: a deep trust in the sovereignty of God. God is awake. 471 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,120 S2: He who keeps you will neither slumber nor sleep. Psalm 121. 472 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,360 S2: You know that's just a truth that should should allow 473 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,959 S2: us to rest easier and to realize like the the 474 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,680 S2: world is in his hands. My life is in his hands. 475 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,760 S2: Like whatever is happening around me, whatever storms are around us, 476 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,800 S2: I can sleep, I can rest. And it's actually an 477 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,440 S2: act of worship, I think to signal to God and 478 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,520 S2: to the watching world, it's like, no, I trust God 479 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,400 S2: that much. That like, even in my stormy life, even 480 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,040 S2: with all of my to do's that I haven't gotten done, 481 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,640 S2: I'm going to choose to rest as an act of, 482 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,320 S2: you know, signaling my, my full trust in him. 483 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,560 S1: But we love control so much. And I think that's 484 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,600 S1: one of the things that you talk about. I love 485 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,560 S1: the quote from John Piper who says, God sends us 486 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,040 S1: to bed each night like patients who are ill with 487 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,560 S1: a sickness. The sickness is a chronic tendency to think 488 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,720 S1: we are in control and that our work is indispensable 489 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,920 S1: to cure us of this disease. God turns us into 490 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,240 S1: helpless sacks of sand once a day. How humiliating did 491 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,640 S1: the self-made corporate executive that he has to give up 492 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,640 S1: all control and become as limp as a suckling infant 493 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,000 S1: every day? So this does what you point out in 494 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,760 S1: the book that Calvin does. It points out who, who 495 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,760 S1: God is and who we are. Again and again. Every day. Right? 496 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,320 S2: Yes. Every day. And that's honestly one of my theories 497 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,600 S2: in answer to the question, which is really kind of 498 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,959 S2: the driving question of this book, why would God create 499 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,600 S2: us to have to sleep a third of our lives 500 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,040 S2: every night of our lives? Like what? What in his 501 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,680 S2: wisdom is behind that decision to to create us that way? 502 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,960 S2: And one of my theories is I think that he 503 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,840 S2: knew that we as prideful creatures who are always prone 504 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:17,440 S2: to overestimate our own importance and the importance of our 505 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,000 S2: contributions and our productivity. It's just in our fallen nature 506 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,280 S2: to want to to want to believe that we are important. Right. 507 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,440 S2: It's Adam and Eve. The original sin. They they weren't 508 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,960 S2: satisfied to just have limits around knowledge. They wanted to 509 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,680 S2: have infinite knowledge like God. And I think sleep is 510 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,560 S2: just this built in reminder that no, like you may 511 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,040 S2: think you're great. You may think that the world needs 512 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,440 S2: you to always be on and always be productive and 513 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,840 S2: always be in control. But you don't. Because I'm in control. 514 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,160 S2: I'm the creator. You are just a lowly creature and 515 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,000 S2: it is for you to work when you're awake and 516 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,400 S2: sleep when you're asleep and be okay with with that balance, 517 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,400 S2: that complementary relationship that I created of work and rest. 518 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,400 S1: So sleep gives us, it reminds us every day of 519 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,760 S1: our dependence on him. And we can either surrender or not, 520 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,640 S1: we can try to control or not, which takes us to, 521 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,200 S1: you know, medication and things like that. And you're not 522 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,600 S1: talking here about about that specifically, but it's if you are, 523 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,120 S1: if you know, if you're like me and you're just this, 524 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,280 S1: you know, I got to control everything and everything depends 525 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,480 S1: on me. You look at sleep and you realize, no 526 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,280 S1: time out. You're not, you're not in control. Stop doing it. 527 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,320 S1: Stop doing that. And some of the anxiety that I 528 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,880 S1: bring on myself and maybe others feel this way too, 529 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,880 S1: the anxiety I bring on myself is what I brought 530 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,520 S1: on myself. It's not something that God has loaded me 531 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,290 S1: down with. Which takes us back to the Matthew passage about, 532 00:33:01,330 --> 00:33:05,290 S1: you know, I've given my burden is light. I give you, 533 00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:08,370 S1: come to me, all you who are weary. Right? 534 00:33:09,210 --> 00:33:13,570 S2: Yes. Yeah. I think the that's the one of the 535 00:33:13,570 --> 00:33:16,450 S2: most beautiful verses in the Bible for capturing like the 536 00:33:16,450 --> 00:33:21,450 S2: heart of the gospel invitation is we as humans, we. 537 00:33:21,490 --> 00:33:25,450 S2: We like to put burdens on ourselves. We like to, um, 538 00:33:25,490 --> 00:33:28,490 S2: we're tempted to believe that, you know, we kind of 539 00:33:28,530 --> 00:33:31,330 S2: have to earn our salvation and we have to strive 540 00:33:31,330 --> 00:33:36,010 S2: harder to achieve, you know, things like rest, sleep, or 541 00:33:36,010 --> 00:33:39,770 S2: anything in life. But that invitation just, just come to me, 542 00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:44,450 S2: come into my presence, all you who are heavy laden 543 00:33:44,930 --> 00:33:48,970 S2: and weary. Um, that's, that's the same invitation that I 544 00:33:48,970 --> 00:33:52,770 S2: think sleep every night gives us. It's like it's this 545 00:33:52,770 --> 00:33:56,250 S2: beautiful gift that all we have to do is receive. 546 00:33:56,290 --> 00:34:00,090 S2: We don't achieve it just like the gospel itself. It's this. 547 00:34:00,130 --> 00:34:04,210 S2: It's the greatest gift there ever was. The the gift of, 548 00:34:04,490 --> 00:34:08,370 S2: you know, eternity with with God because of the blood 549 00:34:08,370 --> 00:34:11,570 S2: of Jesus. But it's nothing that we earn. It's nothing 550 00:34:11,570 --> 00:34:14,210 S2: we have to strive after. It's only a gift to 551 00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:18,009 S2: be received. And that's, that's where I think sleep is a, 552 00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:21,690 S2: is a parallel of sorts because, you know, you can't 553 00:34:21,690 --> 00:34:25,890 S2: engineer the perfect night's sleep. You can't control that. You can't, 554 00:34:25,930 --> 00:34:27,930 S2: you know, you can do some things to set yourself 555 00:34:27,930 --> 00:34:31,649 S2: up for success. But ultimately, it's a beautiful gift to 556 00:34:31,690 --> 00:34:35,130 S2: receive and it gives us amazing benefits. You know, it, 557 00:34:35,370 --> 00:34:39,049 S2: it restores our body. It restores our mind, but it's 558 00:34:39,050 --> 00:34:42,130 S2: through no effort of our own. It's only through the 559 00:34:42,130 --> 00:34:43,050 S2: grace of God. 560 00:34:43,690 --> 00:34:47,730 S1: Isn't that isn't that beautiful thought that all of the 561 00:34:47,730 --> 00:34:52,090 S1: anxiety and the anxiousness that we have about our sin 562 00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:54,410 S1: and the nets that we have in our lives and 563 00:34:54,410 --> 00:34:58,089 S1: that which, you know, we get calls when we do 564 00:34:58,090 --> 00:35:01,690 S1: Bible questions. And one of the common ones is, you know, 565 00:35:01,690 --> 00:35:04,610 S1: what's the unpardonable sin? And have I committed it? And I'm, 566 00:35:04,650 --> 00:35:06,850 S1: you know, how do I know that I'm a Christian? And, 567 00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:12,969 S1: and all of these anxiety producing questions when the gospel 568 00:35:12,969 --> 00:35:16,850 S1: is of. So you say it's it's the gospel is 569 00:35:18,250 --> 00:35:22,170 S1: the gospel is full surrender to what God has done 570 00:35:22,170 --> 00:35:24,930 S1: for me, not what I can do for God. Right? 571 00:35:25,330 --> 00:35:28,489 S2: That's right, that's right. I think that that's why I 572 00:35:28,489 --> 00:35:32,850 S2: think the, the theme of rest generally and sleep as 573 00:35:32,850 --> 00:35:35,610 S2: an expression of that. That's why it's such a, there's 574 00:35:35,610 --> 00:35:40,450 S2: so much potential there theologically to kind of see a picture, 575 00:35:41,090 --> 00:35:44,890 S2: a little metaphor of the gospel, because it's so much 576 00:35:45,370 --> 00:35:48,250 S2: the heart of what the gospel is. It's a gift. 577 00:35:48,250 --> 00:35:52,609 S2: It's a gift you receive. You don't achieve it. Yes. And, 578 00:35:52,850 --> 00:35:55,450 S2: and even the, the arc Ark of the Bible. It 579 00:35:55,489 --> 00:35:58,730 S2: kind of goes from rest in Genesis and in the 580 00:35:58,730 --> 00:36:01,970 S2: Garden of Eden before the fall. Adam and Eve enjoyed 581 00:36:01,969 --> 00:36:04,650 S2: that perfect rest. They were in the presence of God 582 00:36:04,650 --> 00:36:09,729 S2: in Paradise. They were experiencing rest in his presence. And 583 00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:12,130 S2: then one day we will have that in heaven. But 584 00:36:12,130 --> 00:36:15,370 S2: in the meantime, because of the fall, we all. We 585 00:36:15,370 --> 00:36:18,970 S2: all are restless, right? We are hungry for that rest. 586 00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:22,930 S2: We don't experience perfect rest now, but because of the gospel, 587 00:36:22,969 --> 00:36:27,410 S2: because of what Christ accomplished on our behalf, we have 588 00:36:27,770 --> 00:36:33,009 S2: an invitation to reenter the rest. Right, Hebrews, there remains 589 00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:36,250 S2: a rest for the people of God. Uh, thanks be 590 00:36:36,250 --> 00:36:38,770 S2: to God through His Son, Jesus Christ. 591 00:36:39,130 --> 00:36:42,850 S1: Oh, and and swim in that, you know, swim in 592 00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:46,009 S1: that grace and that mercy and that acceptance and that 593 00:36:46,010 --> 00:36:51,570 S1: forgiveness and the striving for holiness that we'll never reach 594 00:36:51,730 --> 00:36:56,500 S1: is given to us through the blood of Jesus, what 595 00:36:56,500 --> 00:37:00,259 S1: he did for us. There's a song that you mention 596 00:37:00,260 --> 00:37:01,939 S1: in the book, and I want to play that when 597 00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:04,620 S1: we come back from a break. The Wisdom of Sleep 598 00:37:04,860 --> 00:37:10,100 S1: is Brett McCracken's new book. It releases next week. It's 599 00:37:10,100 --> 00:37:15,420 S1: subtitled How Rest Reveals God's Truth and Revives Weary Souls. Boy, 600 00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:19,219 S1: don't we need that? Go to Chris Fabry live.org. You'll 601 00:37:19,219 --> 00:37:23,580 S1: find out more about that. Chris Fabry live.org. Listen to 602 00:37:23,620 --> 00:37:28,299 S1: the song coming up straight ahead. Before we get back 603 00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:31,180 S1: to the program, a quick note for you. This segment 604 00:37:31,180 --> 00:37:36,980 S1: includes a song that we can't play for copyright restrictions. 605 00:37:37,380 --> 00:37:46,100 S1: Sorry about that and thank you for understanding. Elias Dummer 606 00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:49,980 S1: and Brett McCracken mentions that song in his book, The 607 00:37:49,980 --> 00:37:52,140 S1: Wisdom of sleep. And I wanted you to hear a 608 00:37:52,140 --> 00:37:54,180 S1: little bit of that. Comes right on the heels of 609 00:37:54,180 --> 00:37:57,180 S1: us talking about what the gospel really is, and to 610 00:37:57,219 --> 00:38:00,459 S1: be able to rest in not what I can do 611 00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:04,540 S1: for God, but what he has done for me. And 612 00:38:04,540 --> 00:38:08,060 S1: then over and over and over again, believe what he 613 00:38:08,060 --> 00:38:12,540 S1: said about me is true. So that I began begin 614 00:38:12,739 --> 00:38:17,299 S1: to live it out, not just passively laying back and 615 00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:19,940 S1: let God do what you want to do in my life, 616 00:38:20,180 --> 00:38:24,540 S1: but to participate with him in the good works that 617 00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:27,260 S1: he has planned ahead of time for me to walk in. 618 00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:30,819 S1: You know, rather than walking in them to validate me 619 00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:33,460 S1: or to get my good feeling that, you know, I've 620 00:38:33,460 --> 00:38:36,420 S1: done a great thing for God. But to say, God, 621 00:38:36,420 --> 00:38:40,460 S1: you're the one who's initiating this. And then to bring 622 00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:44,020 S1: rest into that is just it's really a holy thought, 623 00:38:44,020 --> 00:38:44,580 S1: isn't it? 624 00:38:45,820 --> 00:38:50,660 S2: Yes. Yeah. And, you know, one thing that is important, Chris, 625 00:38:50,700 --> 00:38:54,259 S2: when we emphasize like the gospel is rest and that 626 00:38:54,260 --> 00:38:58,260 S2: that theme of like, you don't achieve it, you receive it. It's, 627 00:38:58,260 --> 00:39:01,140 S2: it's a gift you can't earn. It's not to say 628 00:39:01,140 --> 00:39:04,620 S2: that work, you know, our work is meaningless and that 629 00:39:04,620 --> 00:39:07,460 S2: we are just to kind of be passive in life. 630 00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:10,299 S2: Like we, we do work and God has work for 631 00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:13,460 S2: us to do. But it's the order that's important. We 632 00:39:13,820 --> 00:39:17,780 S2: we rest first and then work, right. We are saved 633 00:39:17,780 --> 00:39:23,020 S2: by grace for good works. We were dead and then alive, right? 634 00:39:23,060 --> 00:39:26,979 S2: We give because we first received. We love because he 635 00:39:26,980 --> 00:39:31,380 S2: first loved us. You know, there's this repeated cadence in 636 00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:35,500 S2: the Genesis creation account. And there was evening and there 637 00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:39,459 S2: was morning. And I think there's theological significance to the 638 00:39:39,460 --> 00:39:43,700 S2: evening first and then morning. And even in the Jewish 639 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:47,299 S2: you might know, the Jewish day starts in evening. It 640 00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:50,500 S2: It starts sundown and that's the beginning of the day. 641 00:39:50,820 --> 00:39:56,020 S2: So we begin in rest and from rest we work, 642 00:39:56,460 --> 00:39:59,459 S2: we labor. And so I think that ordering is just 643 00:39:59,460 --> 00:40:02,420 S2: important for us to remember. Um, we don't want to 644 00:40:02,420 --> 00:40:05,819 S2: reverse it. We don't want to work for the reward 645 00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:09,340 S2: of rest, thinking that it's something we've strived, striven for 646 00:40:09,380 --> 00:40:13,580 S2: and earned. No, like we get the gift of rest, 647 00:40:13,620 --> 00:40:18,420 S2: the gospel of rest first. And from that it fuels our, 648 00:40:18,660 --> 00:40:22,420 S2: our work and our our good fruit that hopefully will 649 00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:23,660 S2: characterize our life. 650 00:40:24,540 --> 00:40:29,100 S1: On the seventh day he rested. Not because necessarily he. Boy, 651 00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:31,460 S1: it was really tough. You know, I'm tired of making 652 00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:34,860 S1: all these people and animals and flinging the stars into 653 00:40:34,860 --> 00:40:37,980 S1: space and all that. But he baked this into the 654 00:40:37,980 --> 00:40:43,860 S1: universe and baked it into us at a DNA level 655 00:40:44,020 --> 00:40:47,830 S1: as well. So if it's important for God, you know, 656 00:40:47,870 --> 00:40:50,270 S1: to say. And on the seventh day he rested, how 657 00:40:50,270 --> 00:40:52,910 S1: much more important. And we can get into that and 658 00:40:52,910 --> 00:40:55,989 S1: the Sabbath rest. I wanted to ask you more here 659 00:40:55,989 --> 00:40:58,750 S1: at the end of the program. You've given us a 660 00:40:58,750 --> 00:41:01,790 S1: couple of them already, but are there practical habits you 661 00:41:01,790 --> 00:41:05,550 S1: recommend to people who want to improve both their physical 662 00:41:05,550 --> 00:41:08,390 S1: sleep as well as their spiritual lives? 663 00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:12,830 S2: Yeah. You know, that's it's kind of one of the 664 00:41:12,830 --> 00:41:15,270 S2: fun parts of this book for me is that it's, 665 00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:19,270 S2: it's both a theological reflection on sleep, but I also 666 00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:22,069 S2: get to bring in kind of the latest science and 667 00:41:22,070 --> 00:41:26,390 S2: the research about sleep and, and all the amazing, you know, 668 00:41:26,430 --> 00:41:31,190 S2: kind of mind blowing, uh, benefits that science is discovering about, 669 00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:35,870 S2: about sleep. And the emerging consensus in the science and 670 00:41:35,870 --> 00:41:39,750 S2: health community is that sleep is probably the single best 671 00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:43,430 S2: thing we can do for our overall kind of holistic health. 672 00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:47,069 S2: So it is super important to to do whatever is 673 00:41:47,070 --> 00:41:51,069 S2: in our power to do. And granted, you know, it 674 00:41:51,070 --> 00:41:53,270 S2: still isn't going to solve our sleep struggles for a 675 00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:55,710 S2: lot of us, but a few things that you can 676 00:41:55,750 --> 00:42:00,150 S2: do if you're not already doing this, but, uh, a 677 00:42:00,230 --> 00:42:03,590 S2: lot of it has to do with rhythmic regularity. So 678 00:42:03,590 --> 00:42:07,310 S2: going to sleep and waking up roughly the same time 679 00:42:07,310 --> 00:42:11,069 S2: every day is, is very helpful. Your body tends to 680 00:42:11,110 --> 00:42:15,989 S2: function better on predictable rhythms like that. Um, going, sleeping 681 00:42:15,989 --> 00:42:20,710 S2: in darkness. That's not surprising because God created our bodies 682 00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:24,109 S2: to mirror the kind of day and night kind of 683 00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:28,709 S2: light and darkness rhythms of the spinning of the planet. Um, 684 00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:31,350 S2: but if you, you know, if you need to get 685 00:42:31,350 --> 00:42:33,509 S2: blackout shades, like do what you have to do to 686 00:42:33,550 --> 00:42:37,830 S2: sleep in darkness. Also, uh, sleeping in a colder temperature 687 00:42:37,830 --> 00:42:43,710 S2: can help our bodies, uh, are Are created to sleep 688 00:42:43,710 --> 00:42:47,430 S2: at night time when the temperature tends to drop just naturally. 689 00:42:47,989 --> 00:42:50,670 S2: And so if you have an air conditioner set at 690 00:42:50,670 --> 00:42:53,990 S2: a few degrees cooler at night when you go to sleep, 691 00:42:54,310 --> 00:42:57,069 S2: and then there's just things to avoid, like don't, don't 692 00:42:57,070 --> 00:43:01,229 S2: have caffeine late in the day. Um, don't do like 693 00:43:01,270 --> 00:43:05,390 S2: intense physical exercise, like right before bed. Um, that can 694 00:43:05,390 --> 00:43:08,109 S2: disrupt your sleep. It's good to exercise at some point 695 00:43:08,110 --> 00:43:11,150 S2: in the day that, that has been shown to give 696 00:43:11,350 --> 00:43:15,310 S2: you better sleep quality. Um, because your body tends to 697 00:43:15,350 --> 00:43:19,630 S2: like need it more and need the restoration after physical exercise, 698 00:43:19,630 --> 00:43:22,069 S2: but just don't do it at like 10:00 at night 699 00:43:22,070 --> 00:43:24,390 S2: right before you go to bed. So those are a 700 00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:27,110 S2: few just very practical tips I can throw out there. 701 00:43:27,390 --> 00:43:30,709 S1: And there are more in the book, The Wisdom of 702 00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:33,270 S1: Sleep by Brett McCracken. I want to give you one 703 00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:36,990 S1: more nap story from Stephanie. She said my best nap 704 00:43:36,989 --> 00:43:41,750 S1: happens after our grandchildren leave Full stomachs. Lots of laughter 705 00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:45,430 S1: and love. Pool time and board games. I sleep for 706 00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:48,469 S1: an hour with a smile on my face and joy 707 00:43:48,469 --> 00:43:52,870 S1: and love in my heart. So being full, you know. 708 00:43:52,910 --> 00:43:55,710 S1: But you get tired as a grandparent, probably as a 709 00:43:55,710 --> 00:43:59,070 S1: parent and probably as a child too. You get tired 710 00:43:59,070 --> 00:44:02,989 S1: with all that, all that fun and that relational activity. 711 00:44:03,390 --> 00:44:07,230 S1: And isn't it good to just rest after that and 712 00:44:07,230 --> 00:44:10,470 S1: go to sleep with a smile? I that I wanted 713 00:44:10,469 --> 00:44:13,030 S1: to read that to you. I think this is really 714 00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:16,989 S1: going to be one of those books that hits the nerve. 715 00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:19,270 S1: Bret of all of us, because this is what we 716 00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:22,750 S1: do a third of every day of our lives. Uh, 717 00:44:22,750 --> 00:44:27,350 S1: and more often sometimes, uh, is sleep. So to think 718 00:44:27,350 --> 00:44:29,670 S1: about that and to allow this topic of sleep to 719 00:44:29,710 --> 00:44:33,470 S1: show us ourselves, and then to show us the hand 720 00:44:33,469 --> 00:44:38,149 S1: of Almighty God, a loving and caring God. Uh, it's 721 00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:40,800 S1: a really good work. Thank you for putting your time 722 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,840 S1: and effort in it, and, uh, go and take a 723 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:43,840 S1: nap now. Okay. 724 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,320 S2: Uh, I would like to thank you, Chris. Thanks so much. 725 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,759 S1: Brett McCracken. We've released him here today on you and 726 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,839 S1: the Wisdom of Sleep is a book that comes out 727 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,440 S1: next week, how rest Reveals God's Truth and Revives Weary Souls. 728 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,319 S1: Highly recommended. He is with the Gospel Coalition, and you 729 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,920 S1: can find out more about him and us right there 730 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:10,000 S1: at the website, chris.org. Thanks for your support of the program. Tomorrow, 731 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,480 S1: the big day. 1926 Moody Radio went on the air, 732 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,040 S1: and we're going to have a celebration here at the 733 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,680 S1: back fence. If you want to get a copy of 734 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,280 S1: that book that we're giving to anyone who supports us, 735 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,920 S1: this is Moody Radio. Just go to Chris Fabry live.org. 736 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,720 S1: Our program is a production of Moody Radio, a Ministry 737 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,720 S1: of Moody Bible Institute.