WEBVTT - In His Presence – Part 1 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:03.360 Today on Bold Steps, with Mark Jobe returning to the 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.560 Book of Isaiah for a lesson on who God really is. 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:10.600 Before, Isaiah was going to step into his public ministry. 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.280 God said, you need to see me for who I am, 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.959 because if you start to minister with this small vision, 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.400 then you will never be consumed by the fire that 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:22.160 I want to exist within your belly. You see, before 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.320 you do anything, you need to be exposed to the 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:25.439 real I am. 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.239 And welcome to Bold Steps with Mark Jobe, president of 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.040 Moody Bible Institute and senior pastor of New Life Community 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.760 Church in Chicago. My name is Wayne Shepherd. And Mark, 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.040 we're going to talk about the presence of God today. 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.440 It's not an easy subject, one that I think is 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:53.560 going to convict and challenge each one of us about 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.360 how we see God. But in a world that wants 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.000 to shrink and contain him, this is going to give 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:00.800 us a fresh picture of who he really is. 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.960 Yeah. And, Wayne, this is a message I preached in 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.039 chapel for our students at Moody Bible Institute that are preparing, 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.679 in one way or another, to serve God. And I'm convinced, 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:18.080 like Isaiah, that our view of the grander holiness power 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.360 of God needs to be bigger. And, um, you'll hear 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:26.759 it in this message. But the background of that culture. Uh, 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.680 it's interesting that they say in the year that King 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:34.440 Uzziah died because Uzziah was someone that had diminished the 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.440 presence of God, had viewed God as small and paid 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.199 the price because of it. And Isaiah was seeking to 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:48.200 bring back an elevated, powerful, holy new vision of who 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:49.280 God really was. 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.400 Well, God placed it in his book for a reason, 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.520 so let's listen carefully to it now. The lesson is 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.520 titled In His Presence. 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:02.290 When we encounter the presence of God, He typically does 0:02:02.290 --> 0:02:05.770 a couple of things in our life. He first of all, 0:02:05.770 --> 0:02:12.609 starts dealing with our hearts, driving us to a greater 0:02:12.610 --> 0:02:21.209 sense of purity, holiness, getting things right. And the second 0:02:21.210 --> 0:02:28.810 thing that happens almost simultaneously is that he also begins 0:02:28.810 --> 0:02:33.170 to generate within us a heart to be used of God. 0:02:34.970 --> 0:02:38.250 I was 16 years old. I was working at a 0:02:38.250 --> 0:02:44.610 hotel in southern France. It sounds glamorous, but it wasn't 0:02:45.730 --> 0:02:49.730 beautiful beach town. But I had to get up at 0:02:50.930 --> 0:02:57.489 430 in the morning and my job was washing dishes. Yeah. 0:03:00.490 --> 0:03:02.410 I tell my wife once in a while when she 0:03:02.410 --> 0:03:05.329 complains about how the dishes are washed, I say, hold on. 0:03:05.330 --> 0:03:09.250 I'm the only professional dishwasher in this house. I was 0:03:09.250 --> 0:03:14.769 paid to wash dishes. She thinks I was overpaid. Um. 0:03:18.490 --> 0:03:20.929 But I was encouraged. I remember as a 16 year 0:03:20.970 --> 0:03:25.250 old washing dishes in that French kitchen, barely knowing French. 0:03:25.250 --> 0:03:28.490 I just knew that the French cook that was in 0:03:28.490 --> 0:03:31.730 charge of things knew a lot of French swear words 0:03:31.730 --> 0:03:37.450 that he used often in my direction. And, um, I 0:03:37.450 --> 0:03:43.690 was inspired by a little book, um, by Brother Lawrence 0:03:45.090 --> 0:03:49.010 practicing the presence of God. And he also was a 0:03:49.010 --> 0:03:52.290 dishwasher and worked in the kitchen. But from that little 0:03:52.330 --> 0:03:55.530 booklet he talked about that no matter where you're at, 0:03:55.530 --> 0:03:59.130 no matter what you're doing, the presence of God is there. 0:03:59.130 --> 0:04:01.420 And you do whatever you do to the glory of God, 0:04:01.420 --> 0:04:04.140 and you can experience the presence of God even in 0:04:04.140 --> 0:04:08.500 the mundane. And so, as a 16 year old, God 0:04:08.500 --> 0:04:10.340 started getting a hold of my heart. I started saying, 0:04:10.340 --> 0:04:12.180 I need to press into you, God. I was far 0:04:12.180 --> 0:04:16.580 from home in a French culture. And, um, the first 0:04:16.580 --> 0:04:18.580 thing I felt like God started to do as I 0:04:18.580 --> 0:04:21.380 was pressing and trying to spend time in prayer, is 0:04:21.380 --> 0:04:24.020 God started to deal with junk in my own heart. 0:04:24.060 --> 0:04:26.500 I feel like I found myself on my knees in 0:04:26.500 --> 0:04:31.260 repentance a lot over stuff, darkness in my heart over 0:04:31.260 --> 0:04:35.219 areas that I needed to to surrender to God. And 0:04:35.220 --> 0:04:37.860 then he started to give me a passion for I 0:04:37.860 --> 0:04:41.460 need to share with someone. I need to be bolder 0:04:41.460 --> 0:04:46.060 in my faith. So I'll never forget during a break, 0:04:46.060 --> 0:04:51.820 I was at a little park. In this French town 0:04:51.820 --> 0:04:55.620 that I worked in, and I felt like God was saying, 0:04:55.620 --> 0:04:58.020 you need to be bolder. You need to share. You 0:04:58.020 --> 0:05:01.660 need to tell someone. My French was broken. I'm in 0:05:01.660 --> 0:05:03.820 a different place. I feel like I'm not sure I 0:05:03.820 --> 0:05:06.140 know how to do this very well. So I remember 0:05:06.140 --> 0:05:08.539 feeling so convicted. I said to God as I was 0:05:08.540 --> 0:05:11.420 in that park praying. I said, God, the first person 0:05:11.420 --> 0:05:13.780 that comes to this park and sits down, I'm going 0:05:13.820 --> 0:05:20.260 to share with them Jesus. And sure enough, two minutes later, 0:05:20.260 --> 0:05:24.580 I hear a motorcycle. I turn around and this guy 0:05:25.140 --> 0:05:29.700 in all leather jacket, black helmet, tatted up on his 0:05:29.700 --> 0:05:32.700 neck here. He gets off and he sits right in 0:05:32.740 --> 0:05:36.300 that bench. I was like, Jesus, couldn't you send, like, 0:05:36.300 --> 0:05:40.260 a little nice little grandmother? Like, this guy doesn't look 0:05:40.260 --> 0:05:42.980 like he wants to hear about Jesus at all. Kind 0:05:42.980 --> 0:05:47.220 of a mean scowl on his face. Pulled out a book. 0:05:47.220 --> 0:05:49.380 He started reading a book. And I'm kind of shaking 0:05:49.380 --> 0:05:51.540 a little bit. As a 16 year old thinking, I 0:05:51.540 --> 0:05:54.020 told God I would share. I'm going to do it anyways. 0:05:54.020 --> 0:05:56.339 So I went over to this guy and in my 0:05:56.339 --> 0:05:59.740 broken French I said, you know, what are you reading? 0:06:00.550 --> 0:06:03.550 He looked up at me like. Like he didn't want 0:06:03.589 --> 0:06:07.110 to talk to me, scowl on his face, and he 0:06:07.110 --> 0:06:10.109 showed me the covers of his book. And it was 0:06:10.110 --> 0:06:14.510 The Cross and the switchblade, which was a classic story 0:06:14.510 --> 0:06:17.390 of a gang in New York that got saved. And 0:06:17.390 --> 0:06:24.190 immediately I realized, God, you've gone before me. And I 0:06:24.230 --> 0:06:28.070 sat down and had this great conversation with this guy 0:06:28.190 --> 0:06:33.030 about Jesus, because the presence of God draws us to purity, 0:06:33.990 --> 0:06:37.710 and it draws us to a fresh desire to want 0:06:37.750 --> 0:06:46.510 to serve him. Isaiah chapter six. We encounter a man 0:06:46.510 --> 0:06:53.110 that he's got a desire to serve God. And I'm 0:06:53.110 --> 0:06:56.550 going to begin reading in verse one of Isaiah chapter six. 0:06:58.910 --> 0:07:05.309 He starts by saying this in the year that King 0:07:05.310 --> 0:07:10.350 Uzziah died. Now, that doesn't seem to make be an 0:07:10.350 --> 0:07:15.470 important statement, because he's just situating this story in a 0:07:15.470 --> 0:07:20.350 time frame. But there's more to it than just giving 0:07:20.350 --> 0:07:25.390 the year. There's something significant about in the year that 0:07:25.390 --> 0:07:31.470 King Uzziah died. You see, King Uzziah, he had started 0:07:31.470 --> 0:07:36.430 raining at the ripe age of 16. He sat on 0:07:36.430 --> 0:07:44.270 the throne for 52 years, approximately from 790 to 739 BC. 0:07:45.230 --> 0:07:50.830 And he sought God. He feared the Lord. He was 0:07:51.430 --> 0:07:55.790 sort of exhorted and led by the prophet Zechariah, who 0:07:55.790 --> 0:08:00.110 ministered to him during his reign, along with Hosea, Amos, Jonah, 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:05.760 and Isaiah. He started out great. Fearing God. Wanting to 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:10.920 serve him. Turning things around. God granted him prosperity. He 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:16.240 defeated his enemies. He became an iconic national hero. The 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:21.880 country idolized him. He had taken Israel, so to speak, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.160 out of the Dark Ages because of what he did. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.680 But it tells us in Second Chronicles, chapter 26, verse 16. 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:37.320 But after Uzziah became powerful, his pride led him to 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:47.120 a downfall. You see, Uzziah struggled with a growing. Listen 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:56.880 to me. A growing ego. And a shrinking respect. Honor 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:03.800 of God. You know, sometimes those two things go hand 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:13.360 in hand. A growing ego typically starts to dwindle, minimize, shrink, 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:20.559 distort our view of the grandeur and sovereignty of God. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:28.920 It doesn't happen all of a sudden. It seeps into 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:35.600 our soul. It slowly creeps into our view of God 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:41.200 and our view of other people. We barely know when 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:46.320 it's happening, but it starts to happen. And suddenly we 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:51.000 start to view ourselves higher, bigger, stronger, more confident. We 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:58.239 become less dependent on God. Less feeling, less the compulsion 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.370 to seek after God. Because now we feel I can 0:10:01.370 --> 0:10:06.130 handle this. I'm confident. Look at my string of successes. 0:10:06.809 --> 0:10:09.770 It tells us in Second Chronicles, chapter 26, verse 16 0:10:09.809 --> 0:10:13.730 through 20, he was unfaithful to the Lord his God, 0:10:13.929 --> 0:10:16.329 and he entered the temple of the Lord to burn 0:10:16.330 --> 0:10:20.210 incense on the altar of incense. You know, his pride 0:10:20.210 --> 0:10:23.450 caused him to think that he could do that which 0:10:23.450 --> 0:10:26.929 he was not called to do. His pride caused him 0:10:26.929 --> 0:10:30.410 to despise the commandments of God. This young man who 0:10:30.410 --> 0:10:34.650 had started humble seeking after God. This young man who 0:10:34.650 --> 0:10:39.450 had started with a dependence on God. Suddenly something's changed. 0:10:41.170 --> 0:10:46.330 He still reveres God, but he's got a shrunken view 0:10:46.330 --> 0:10:52.330 of God. His view of God is diminished. In fact, 0:10:52.330 --> 0:10:58.449 he's perpetuated that through the entire kingdom. People talk more 0:10:58.450 --> 0:11:05.130 about Uzziah. Fire. Then they talk about God, and then 0:11:05.130 --> 0:11:11.770 suddenly Uzziah finds himself. Marching down the street with people 0:11:11.770 --> 0:11:18.370 around him, stomping into the temple. Burning incense. Getting ready 0:11:18.370 --> 0:11:22.410 to burn incense before God. It wasn't his responsibility to 0:11:22.410 --> 0:11:25.770 the king. Did not have that right. That was the 0:11:25.770 --> 0:11:30.930 right of the priest. And Azariah the priest, with 80 0:11:30.970 --> 0:11:33.569 other courageous priests of the Lord, followed him in. And 0:11:33.570 --> 0:11:36.570 they confronted him and said, it's not right for you, Uzziah, 0:11:36.570 --> 0:11:39.209 to burn incense to the Lord. That's for the priests, 0:11:39.210 --> 0:11:43.650 the descendants of Aaron, who have been consecrated to burn incense. 0:11:43.690 --> 0:11:47.010 Leave the sanctuary, for you have been unfaithful, and you 0:11:47.010 --> 0:11:50.170 will not be honored by the Lord your God. I mean, 0:11:50.170 --> 0:11:53.530 he had the power to kill them, to say, slay 0:11:53.530 --> 0:11:57.650 these priests, but they had boldness to proclaim before Uzziah. 0:11:57.890 --> 0:11:59.890 You've been lifted up in pride. 0:12:05.660 --> 0:12:07.740 Well, we have to break there for a moment, but 0:12:07.740 --> 0:12:10.740 this tense story will continue in a moment. You're listening 0:12:10.780 --> 0:12:12.860 to Bold Steps with Mark Jobe, and I want to 0:12:12.860 --> 0:12:14.580 make sure you know about all the ways you can 0:12:14.580 --> 0:12:18.540 connect with this ministry and access these life changing Bible teachings. 0:12:18.700 --> 0:12:21.420 Our website at Bold Steps. Org is your hub for 0:12:21.420 --> 0:12:24.740 all things bold steps. There you'll find our complete message 0:12:24.740 --> 0:12:27.740 archive plus faith building resources to help you grow in 0:12:27.740 --> 0:12:30.620 your walk with Christ. And have you downloaded the Bold 0:12:30.620 --> 0:12:34.579 Steps app yet? It's packed with exclusive content from Mark, 0:12:34.620 --> 0:12:38.620 including original sermons, teaching videos, and special features you won't 0:12:38.620 --> 0:12:42.220 find anywhere else. Just visit your favorite app store today 0:12:42.220 --> 0:12:45.780 and download the Bold Steps app for free. And then, 0:12:45.780 --> 0:12:48.420 for daily inspiration and biblical wisdom on the go, be 0:12:48.420 --> 0:12:51.460 sure to follow Mark on social media, too. You'll find 0:12:51.460 --> 0:12:54.340 engaging content and a vibrant community of believers when you 0:12:54.380 --> 0:12:58.780 connect with bold steps on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. 0:12:59.179 --> 0:13:01.700 Mark's YouTube channel is a great place to get exclusive 0:13:01.700 --> 0:13:05.900 video content, special messages and updates from Mark. Just search 0:13:05.900 --> 0:13:08.340 for Bold Steps Radio and hit that follow button when 0:13:08.340 --> 0:13:11.660 you find us. Now back to today's message. Here again 0:13:11.700 --> 0:13:14.260 is Mark Jobe with more bold steps. 0:13:19.940 --> 0:13:25.339 And here's a powerful moment. Uzziah had the censer in 0:13:25.340 --> 0:13:28.900 his hand, ready to burn the incense. Looking at this 0:13:28.900 --> 0:13:32.939 priest with disdain, thinking, who are you to confront me? 0:13:33.220 --> 0:13:38.980 The king. And he became angry. And while he was raging, 0:13:39.580 --> 0:13:42.900 you can see his veins pop out in his forehead. 0:13:42.940 --> 0:13:46.260 You can see his voice arise. You can see that 0:13:46.260 --> 0:13:50.700 disdain as he looks at the priest. As you puny little, 0:13:50.900 --> 0:13:55.179 insignificant people. Who are you to challenge me? Do you 0:13:55.179 --> 0:13:58.699 know who you're talking to? I'm Uzziah, the man that's 0:13:58.700 --> 0:14:02.070 brought Israel up. The man that's done all these great things. 0:14:02.070 --> 0:14:06.150 Who are you? And as he raised his voice lifted high, 0:14:06.470 --> 0:14:13.550 veins popping out in his neck. Unbeknownst to him, as 0:14:13.550 --> 0:14:17.349 he rages and screams, something starts to change in his forehead. 0:14:19.070 --> 0:14:22.270 It looks like a pimple at first. You've seen him, 0:14:22.270 --> 0:14:28.830 haven't you? And it starts to spread and it starts 0:14:28.830 --> 0:14:33.030 to get bigger. He's raging and screaming. He's raising his voice. 0:14:33.030 --> 0:14:36.270 He's telling people what he's doing. The people are looking 0:14:36.270 --> 0:14:38.230 at him and he's thinking, I'm getting through to him. 0:14:38.230 --> 0:14:40.670 Look how scared they look. And they're looking at him 0:14:40.670 --> 0:14:44.870 like this. Everybody sees it but him. Leprosy starts to 0:14:44.870 --> 0:14:52.470 break out on his forehead. And Isaiah. Leaves the temple 0:14:53.270 --> 0:14:56.430 a leper. For the next 15 years he lives in 0:14:56.430 --> 0:15:01.760 a house separated with other people, with leprosy. Because leprosy 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:11.200 had taken over his body. The diminishing of God. The 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:18.640 shrinking of his sovereignty. The diminishing of respect for his holiness. 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:25.800 A sense of our own grandeur had affected the culture. 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.400 The entire nation of Israel had been affected by God 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:38.000 as a rabbit's foot. Can I tell you something? It 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:46.880 is so easy. So easy. For us to use God. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.200 It's so easy for us to feel like we can 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:57.960 manipulate God, use God when we need him. We want 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:02.040 a God that's small enough for us to manipulate, to 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.960 use when we're in trouble. But we don't want a 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:11.320 God that makes us humble ourselves. We want a manageable God. 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:16.720 A sanitized God. We want a God that we can control. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.480 We want a God that's our friend, but not the 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:29.840 holy consuming fire. We're comfortable with the sanitized, utilitarian, pragmatic God. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.200 We're comfortable with the God that, yeah, he loves us 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:37.720 and he's for us. And we like that message, but 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.640 it makes us very uncomfortable to hear about the wrath 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.000 of God, the holiness of God, the consuming fire of God. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.920 It makes us uncomfortable to hear that he can wipe 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.920 out a nation in a moment. It makes us tremble 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:51.920 a little bit. We don't know how to handle that 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.200 kind of God. It's not the God that we want. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:59.000 We want a God that is shrunken down, manageable, easy 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.000 for us to control. We want a rabbit foot God. 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:10.120 We want a miniature version of God. But I'm here 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:11.679 to tell you that the God that we serve, the 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.439 God that we love, he's not manageable. I want to 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.520 tell you that he scares us at times, that he's 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:21.480 all consuming fire, that he is not. He is unpredictable 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.119 to you and I. You cannot contort, you cannot manipulate. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.160 You cannot negotiate with this God. This God is holy. 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.960 This God is high and lifted up. This God will 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.600 not be negotiated with. This God will not be used. 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.040 This God will not be manipulated. This God cannot be 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.560 deceived in any way. This is the high and lifted up. 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.320 This is the Alpha and Omega. This is the beginning 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.280 and the end. This is the God that angels fly 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:52.080 before covering their face and their feet and say, Holy, holy, 0:17:52.080 --> 0:18:02.210 holy is the Lord God Almighty. I just feel compelled 0:18:02.250 --> 0:18:06.570 to that we understand that we grasp that we capture 0:18:06.570 --> 0:18:10.850 the fact that the God that we're coming before is 0:18:10.850 --> 0:18:16.050 this God in the year that King Uzziah died. Now 0:18:16.050 --> 0:18:23.090 you know why Isaiah mentioned Uzziah? Because there's something powerful, compelling. 0:18:25.690 --> 0:18:30.650 About the culture that he lived in. He says, I 0:18:30.690 --> 0:18:41.730 saw the Lord. High and lifted up. Seated on a throne. 0:18:43.250 --> 0:18:47.129 And the train of his robe filled the temple. Above 0:18:47.130 --> 0:18:50.409 him were seraphim with six wings. With two they covered 0:18:50.410 --> 0:18:52.610 their faces. With two they covered their feet, and with 0:18:52.609 --> 0:18:56.250 two they were flying. And they called out to one another. Holy, 0:18:56.250 --> 0:18:59.820 Holy is the Lord God Almighty. The whole earth is 0:18:59.820 --> 0:19:02.940 full of his glory. At the sound of their voices, 0:19:02.940 --> 0:19:06.260 the doorposts and the thresholds shook, and the temple was 0:19:06.260 --> 0:19:11.740 full of smoke. And I cried, woe is me! I'm ruined! 0:19:12.260 --> 0:19:14.020 For I am a man of unclean lips. And I 0:19:14.060 --> 0:19:16.580 live among a people of unclean lips. And my eyes 0:19:16.580 --> 0:19:21.740 have seen the King, the Lord Almighty. Can I just 0:19:21.740 --> 0:19:24.420 tell you, in the short time that I have here, 0:19:24.740 --> 0:19:30.980 that his presence awakens us to a grander view of 0:19:31.020 --> 0:19:40.300 who he is, his presence? I want you to note 0:19:40.300 --> 0:19:43.340 that as Isaiah sees the Lord, he's got a vision 0:19:44.420 --> 0:19:48.900 in a culture that is diminished. God in a culture 0:19:48.900 --> 0:19:52.420 that we live in, a culture that uses the name 0:19:52.420 --> 0:19:57.340 of God as a swear word. Blankety blank, blank. An 0:19:57.340 --> 0:20:02.220 exclamation point. We live in a culture where the morality 0:20:02.220 --> 0:20:05.780 of God and the laws of God have been desecrated. 0:20:06.820 --> 0:20:09.300 We live in a culture where the churches are empty. 0:20:10.420 --> 0:20:14.260 We live in a culture where there's stained glass windows, 0:20:14.260 --> 0:20:19.020 speaking about the holiness of God, but ten elderly people 0:20:19.020 --> 0:20:22.820 that gather there. We live in a culture where the 0:20:22.820 --> 0:20:26.980 money says, In God we trust, but we can't pray 0:20:26.980 --> 0:20:31.740 publicly in our schools. We live in a culture that 0:20:32.660 --> 0:20:38.139 is okay with your God, as long as he's contained, minimized, 0:20:39.140 --> 0:20:44.460 as long as you're God is a shrunken version of God. 0:20:46.020 --> 0:20:48.820 But God needed to do something in Isaiah because he 0:20:48.820 --> 0:20:51.419 knew that Isaiah was going to be ministering in a 0:20:51.420 --> 0:20:56.220 culture with a minimized God. And before Isaiah was going 0:20:56.260 --> 0:20:59.300 to step into his public ministry, God said, you need 0:20:59.300 --> 0:21:02.100 to see me for who I am. You need a 0:21:02.100 --> 0:21:05.460 fresh vision of who I am. Because if you start 0:21:05.460 --> 0:21:08.460 to minister with this small vision, then you will never 0:21:08.500 --> 0:21:11.060 be consumed by the fire that I want to exist 0:21:11.060 --> 0:21:15.179 within your belly. Your calling will never be fervent. Your 0:21:15.300 --> 0:21:18.179 radical nature of pursuing me will never be where it 0:21:18.180 --> 0:21:20.580 needs to be. You see, before you do anything, you 0:21:20.580 --> 0:21:23.060 need to be exposed to the real I am. 0:21:29.460 --> 0:21:32.540 You're listening to Bold Steps with Mark Jobe. The beginning 0:21:32.540 --> 0:21:36.340 of a powerful message titled In His Presence. We'll continue 0:21:36.340 --> 0:21:38.900 the lesson next time, but until then, remember you can 0:21:38.900 --> 0:21:43.980 always find these daily messages online at Bold Steps. Well, Mark, 0:21:43.980 --> 0:21:46.300 let's talk with the author of our bold step gift, 0:21:46.300 --> 0:21:47.619 doctor Heather Holloman. 0:21:47.660 --> 0:21:51.500 Absolutely excited to do so. You know, recent studies have 0:21:51.500 --> 0:21:54.979 shown that nearly half of all adults report not having 0:21:54.980 --> 0:22:00.629 a meaningful conversation in their daily lives. Now that's pretty startling, 0:22:00.630 --> 0:22:04.149 I guess, but it's one of those things that motivated 0:22:04.150 --> 0:22:08.230 our guest today to write her book, doctor Heather Holloman. 0:22:08.390 --> 0:22:12.550 In the six conversations, you talk about four mindsets that 0:22:12.550 --> 0:22:16.270 are essential for meaningful conversations. Can you walk us through 0:22:16.270 --> 0:22:17.869 those four mindsets? 0:22:18.070 --> 0:22:20.710 Yes, and thank you for having me on this program. 0:22:20.710 --> 0:22:23.110 In order to have a warm connection with someone, you 0:22:23.109 --> 0:22:28.070 need to be curious, believe the best about them, express concern, 0:22:28.270 --> 0:22:31.189 and share your life. They seem really simple, but most 0:22:31.190 --> 0:22:33.870 people are deficient in one of those categories. 0:22:34.350 --> 0:22:37.750 That is good. Yeah, so this is some of the 0:22:37.750 --> 0:22:42.310 elements needed to have a meaningful conversation, which in your book, 0:22:42.350 --> 0:22:46.830 obviously you talk about how conversation is the bridge way 0:22:46.830 --> 0:22:48.790 to really communicate our faith. 0:22:48.950 --> 0:22:51.389 That's right. And I got really excited about the power 0:22:51.390 --> 0:22:54.109 of having a warm connection. Once you know how to 0:22:54.150 --> 0:22:57.310 deeply connect with someone, evangelism is never going to feel 0:22:57.310 --> 0:23:00.790 like a sales pitch or an awkward pivot in the conversation. 0:23:00.830 --> 0:23:02.870 Good point. So I was really delighted to read the 0:23:02.869 --> 0:23:06.270 social science research and also how Scripture has always it 0:23:06.270 --> 0:23:08.990 really supports all of that. We've learned this is ancient 0:23:08.990 --> 0:23:10.190 wisdom literature. 0:23:11.190 --> 0:23:14.350 I love it. Uh, Heather, because so many people, when 0:23:14.350 --> 0:23:17.830 they think about evangelism, they think of a sales pitch 0:23:17.830 --> 0:23:21.430 or I have to do a mini lecture, and most 0:23:21.430 --> 0:23:26.590 people it intimidates. But to have a healthy conversation that 0:23:26.590 --> 0:23:32.070 naturally goes to those important places of spirituality, I think, 0:23:32.310 --> 0:23:35.750 lowers the barrier of fear and allows us to more 0:23:35.750 --> 0:23:38.990 naturally engage. Thank you, Heather, for writing this book. This, 0:23:38.990 --> 0:23:41.390 I think, is going to be a great resource for 0:23:41.390 --> 0:23:45.230 people that are seeking to bridge the gap of meaningful 0:23:45.230 --> 0:23:47.230 conversations with their loved ones. 0:23:47.350 --> 0:23:48.109 Thank you. 0:23:48.350 --> 0:23:50.670 We'll be happy to send you a copy of Heather's book, 0:23:50.670 --> 0:23:53.510 The Six Conversations. When you make a donation of any 0:23:53.510 --> 0:23:58.390 amount to support bold steps, just call us at 800 Moody. 0:23:58.670 --> 0:24:06.000 That's (800) 356-6639 or give online at boldsystems.org. Or send your 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:08.720 gift through the mail. Write to us at bold steps. 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:14.720 820 North LaSalle Boulevard, Chicago, Illinois 606 ten. And you know, 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:17.639 these Bible teachings are made possible through the generous support 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:21.680 of listeners just like you. We call them our bold partners. 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:25.080 Through their faithful monthly gifts, these ministry partners help us 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.600 reach more people with the truth and life changing power 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:30.359 of God's Word. When you commit to giving a monthly 0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:33.520 gift of $30 or more, we'll send you some special 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:37.600 bonuses like a signed copy of Mark's book unstuck, access 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:41.200 to our Bold Partner post, and a 50% discount on 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:45.200 all items at the Moody Publishers online store. To join 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:48.919 the team, simply visit Bold Steps org. And hey, if 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:51.200 you'd like to take these Bible teachings with you wherever 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:54.240 you go, be sure to subscribe to the Bold Steps podcast. 0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:57.080 You'll find us on most podcast apps by searching for 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:00.480 bold steps with doctor Mark Jobe. When you do, please 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:02.720 leave a comment and a five star review to help 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:06.480 others find these messages too. I'm Wayne Shepherd, wishing you 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:09.359 a wonderful weekend. And that reminds me, don't forget our 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:12.920 sister program, Bold Steps Weekend. When pastor Mark will share 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:16.000 a powerful message to help you prepare your heart for Easter, 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:20.120 titled The Seven Phrases of Jesus. The final words Jesus 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:22.600 said when he was on the cross. This sermon will 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.880 help you engage deeper in Jesus suffering, his love and 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:29.480 his ultimate triumph over sin and death. Don't miss Bold 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:34.159 Steps Weekend on many stations or at Bold Steps, and 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:36.320 we'll see you here next time when Mark continues with 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:40.040 part two of this eye opening lesson titled In His Presence. 0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:44.359 That's coming up Monday here on Bold Steps with Mark John. 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:48.520 Bold steps is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:50.240 of Moody Bible Institute.