S1: There's so many people who tell me, I wish my
S1: kids came with an instruction manual and I'm like, they do.
S1: It's called the Bible, you know? And it's not going
S1: to tell you, you know, which college your kid is
S1: going to go to or what career they should have.
S1: But there's a whole lot of wisdom in the Scripture,
S1: Old and New Testament that can help us raise up
S1: our kids. And I wanted to point parents to that reality.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Language. Today.
S2: Author and speaker. Doctor Cathy. A cook wants to help
S2: you parent differently. She believes the outcome could be a
S2: drastic change in the culture.
S1: Let's find out if she's right. The topic today is
S1: how to raise kids who embrace biblical character, not only
S1: teaching that to them. But letting them catch it from
S1: mom and dad. If you go to a website, you'll
S1: see our featured resource there, doctor Cook's latest book, Parent Differently.
S1: Go to Building relationships.us. And it strikes me, Gary, that
S1: you and Carolyn tried to parent this way and you
S1: caught a lot of positive modeling from your own parents.
S1: Is that.
S3: True? I did Chris, my mom and dad were both Christians.
S3: Dad was not a Christian, actually, when he married my mom.
S3: But two years later, he became a real follower of Jesus.
S3: So I grew up in a Christian home and it
S3: made a tremendous difference in my life. You know, I
S3: am so grateful as I look back upon the years
S3: that I spent at home. And I remember when my
S3: mom got older, of course, she was fighting with dementia
S3: for a good long while, and I had two sisters
S3: with her around the clock, and one day she said
S3: to me, she said, you know, I'm afraid you're going
S3: to run out of money paying all these sitters. And
S3: I said, well, mom, maybe I will. But look at
S3: it this way for 18, 17 years, because I was
S3: 17 when I went off to college. I said for
S3: 17 years you did everything for me. I said, I've
S3: only done this for about eight years. I got about
S3: how many more years to go. So yeah, this is
S3: an exciting topic today and I'm glad we're going to
S3: be discussing it.
S1: Well, if you go to building relationships with us, you'll
S1: see our featured resource by Doctor Cook parent differently. Raise
S1: kids with biblical character that changes culture. Doctor Kathy Cook
S1: is founder and president of Celebrate Kids Incorporated, based in
S1: Fort Worth, Texas. She's written a number of bestsellers seven,
S1: I believe, of parent and child enrichment books such as
S1: Screens and Teens eight Great Smarts and Resilient Kids. We've
S1: talked about them here. She earned a PhD in reading
S1: and educational psychology from Purdue University. Go Boilermakers. You can
S1: find out more about parent differently at building relationships with us.
S3: Well Doctor Cook, welcome back to Building Relationships.
S4: Thank you so much. I'm really, really happy to be here.
S3: Before we jump into today's topic, can you tell our
S3: listeners more about yourself and why you've dedicated your life
S3: to the work you're doing with children and their parents?
S4: Yeah, I'd love to. So I'm the founder of Celebrate Kids.
S4: I live in Fort Worth, Texas, moved here to start
S4: the ministry from green Bay, Wisconsin. Grew up in the Milwaukee,
S4: Wisconsin area. Great parents, an older brother raised in church,
S4: not by Christians. My parents came to faith and in
S4: Christ very late in life, but I was a celebrated kid. Gary.
S4: Both Dave and I were celebrated. We were paid attention to.
S4: We were wanted. We knew that we were liked and loved.
S4: And so my ministry comes out of the success that
S4: I had as a child, and I want other children
S4: to have that. You know, some people have ministries that
S4: are founded on brokenness, and that's fine where they want
S4: to repair damage and they want to give people what
S4: they never had. My story is that I was celebrated,
S4: and I want other parents to do what my parents did.
S3: Yeah. It's great. Well, this latest title, parent Differently, uh,
S3: it's about teaching biblical character. What prompted you to tackle
S3: this topic?
S4: Thanks for asking that question. You know, you and I
S4: both have this in common, Gary. I want children to
S4: fulfill the purpose that they've been given. When God chose
S4: to create them, he gave them gifts. We know that
S4: from Ephesians 210. He had a purpose and a vision
S4: for their lives. And without biblical character, children can't fulfill
S4: what they were created to do because negative character doesn't
S4: give us influence or impact. So that was one reason.
S4: I also know that so many parents are frustrated today
S4: with disobedient kids. They're yelling. They're telling, they're throwing their
S4: hands up, they're fatigued, they're tired of the tech. So
S4: it's messy. And I believe that if we pay more
S4: attention to character than obedience will make more of a
S4: life change for our children. And then the third reason
S4: is the whole idea of biblical character. We, you know,
S4: there's so many people who tell me, I wish my
S4: kids came with an instruction manual. And I'm like, they do.
S4: It's called the Bible, you know, and the Bible. The
S4: Bible is super practical, you know, it doesn't it's not
S4: going to tell you, you know, which college your kid
S4: is going to go to or what career they should have, or,
S4: you know, whether you should breastfeed or not. No, but
S4: there's a whole lot of wisdom in the Scripture, Old
S4: and New Testament that can help us raise up our kids.
S4: And I wanted to point parents to that reality.
S3: Yeah, but when you talk about biblical character, what are
S3: you talking about specifically?
S5: Yeah, I.
S4: Appreciate that because you notice it's not Christlike character. You know,
S4: a lot of people talk about Christlike character. And of course,
S4: becoming like Christ is the call to the believer. Certainly
S4: that's why we follow him. But you know what children
S4: have said to me? But Doctor Cathy, Jesus is perfect.
S4: You know I can't be like Jesus. So it's a
S4: little bit off putting, potentially, without the kind of explanation
S4: that it would take a while to, you know, elaborate. And,
S4: and so the reason I went with biblical is part
S4: of that. That's one of the reasons. The other major reason, though,
S4: is I want our children. I'm on us and our
S4: kids to not just live as Jesus Christ lived his life,
S4: but I want us to also live according to God's
S4: ways and God's will. And there's a whole lot in
S4: the Old Testament and a whole lot in the New Testament,
S4: not specifically related to Jesus Christ, that it is about character,
S4: including other Bible heroes, including, you know, the fruit of
S4: the spirit. The one another's of the New Testament and
S4: the Beatitudes. And you know so much wisdom in the
S4: Psalms about how it would be wise for us to
S4: live out our lives. And that's what I would love
S4: for parents to impress upon their kids.
S6: Yeah.
S3: Now, Chris mentioned the whole concept of parents modeling this
S3: kind of lifestyle for children. How important is that for
S3: the child, you know, to catch this from their parents lives?
S4: Yeah, it's so important. Right? Like, what are the adjectives
S4: that we could use? Like super important. Um, integrity matters.
S4: And children at a very young age are going to
S4: be able to figure children at a very young age.
S4: Will figure out if their parents talk is matching their walk.
S4: And when it doesn't, of course, they become confused and
S4: even angry. And when children are angry, they don't behave
S4: as well as you would like. So that's a real issue.
S4: What I would love to recommend parents do is talk
S4: more out loud about what they are modeling. Don't assume
S4: that just because you model kindness, patience, goodness, or generosity
S4: that your children will automatically wake up one day and
S4: become those things? It's not necessarily true. I believe that
S4: much is taught and much as caught. And when we
S4: combine the two, it's really profitable. So as an example,
S4: talk out loud about why you made the decision you made.
S4: Why were you generous in that situation? Your kids were there.
S4: They watched you do what you did. Why did you
S4: do it? Talk out loud. Because it's the reason. It's
S4: the why behind the what. It's the why behind the
S4: behavior that's going to motivate your children to be able
S4: to pick up on that because they honor you and
S4: they want to believe that you're making a wise choice,
S4: and now they're going to be more capable of doing that.
S4: I hope that makes sense.
S3: Yeah, I think it does. And the other factor is
S3: this you mentioned earlier, of course children aren't perfect. Jesus
S3: was perfect. Parents aren't perfect. So what would you say
S3: to the parent who realizes they're not perfect and they
S3: fail from time to time? How do they deal with that?
S4: Yeah, well, welcome to the world. Right? Um, the, you know,
S4: the sin nature is real. And, uh, you know, parents
S4: today are overwhelmed and frustrated and tired and distracted and
S4: there's just so much right that's going on. So, first
S4: of all, don't panic when mistakes occur, when you even
S4: intentionally do something that's less than God glorifying. Like, we
S4: all understand that. That's why we're here. You know, we're
S4: here to help you and what I know to be true.
S4: And I think you agree. Gotcha, Chapman, that, um, when
S4: we're not perfect and we admit that we actually gain authority, um,
S4: our vulnerability and our transparency shows children that we can.
S4: We are still learning, and now they're not as panicked
S4: when they admit that they're struggling. They think, oh, daddy
S4: might understand if I admit that I cheated because he's
S4: admitted to me that he kind of sometimes struggles with stuff.
S4: I think it's very essential that we admit age appropriately, right? Developmentally, appropriately,
S4: what it is that's going on in our world. Yeah.
S3: And then so we're modeling the whole concept of confessing
S3: our sins, right? Right.
S7: True, true.
S3: Yeah, yeah. Uh, is it ever too early or too
S3: late to teach biblical character?
S4: It's not. Um, certainly the earlier the better, because then
S4: you have fewer bad habits to break. I used to
S4: coach girls, fifth and sixth graders in basketball, and I
S4: loved that because they came in with very few skills,
S4: so I didn't have to break bad habits that I
S4: didn't like that another coach had instilled in them. I
S4: was able to start them off from a really naive
S4: position and teach them the way that I wanted my
S4: athletes and my my team to perform, if you will.
S4: So the same thing is true here with characters. Start young,
S4: talk about it. Young, demonstrate it young. Have them, you know,
S4: act it out when they're young. Now, if you're listening
S4: and your kids are older, you're thinking, oh, I've got
S4: to do a U-turn. Yes. And you can do that.
S4: And it's it's never too late. This is where you,
S4: you know, you say to the oldest kid, you know,
S4: you're a guinea pig, you've known your whole life, you're
S4: our guinea pig. And you know, we've learned some new things.
S4: We listen to a great radio show, we've read a
S4: great book, we've learned some new things, and we apologize
S4: for the mistakes we've made. And we're asking you to,
S4: you know, give us a fresh start and let's let's
S4: try again in this way, I think earlier, the better.
S4: The apology may be necessary. If your kids are older
S4: and you know why, I know it's never too late
S4: because my character has been influenced by even writing this book.
S4: You know, you know, Doctor Chapman, that writing is like
S4: writing a book. Because no joke. Because, you know, I'm
S4: confronted with, okay, if I put that in this book,
S4: you know, and hello, integrity, I'm going to have to
S4: act it out so I know that it's never too
S4: late to be affected. Praise God.
S3: Absolutely.
S2: This is building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Doctor
S2: Kathy Cook is joining us today, author of Parent Differently
S2: Race Kids with Biblical Character That Changes Culture. Find out
S2: more about it at Building Relationships us that's building relationships
S2: us that cook.
S3: You say there are ways to determine if a child's
S3: character is mature. Uh, what are you looking for in
S3: determining that?
S4: I'm glad you asked that, because this is important to
S4: me that parents keep teaching, you know, don't tell and yell,
S4: but teach for maturity, teach for growth, and look for that.
S4: And there's three things that I believe are most important.
S4: One would be is a child's character complete. So as
S4: you know, in the book, I list 48 character qualities.
S4: One of my books has 120 character qualities, but I
S4: listed 48 in this book and I didn't want to
S4: overwhelm people. And there's a reason that I cut back
S4: on the list. So of the 48 as an example,
S4: how many are my children able to use? So that's complete.
S4: The second factor that's super important is consistent. How consistently
S4: do my kids use the quality? Like if you notice
S4: that your child is capable of being kind, is she
S4: always kind or is she only kind to people she likes? Okay,
S4: that's inconsistent, and she's got a belief system that's getting
S4: in the way there. And then the third thing that
S4: I think is so valuable to look for is automatic.
S4: How automatically do they use the character qualities. Because isn't it,
S4: wouldn't it be great if at one point we don't
S4: have to tell them to be kind? You know, wouldn't
S4: it be great if there's a day coming when we
S4: don't have to say, oh, please be patient? No. So
S4: are they able to use the quality? How complete are there,
S4: are there how complete is their character? And then how
S4: consistently do they use the qualities. And then how automatically
S4: do we, our children are able to use them. And
S4: if you find out that a child is automatically using
S4: a quality like Praise God, and then every once in
S4: a while affirm them, don't ignore it every once in
S4: a while, affirm them. But you're not going to have
S4: to nag at them. And that's going to be such
S4: a refreshing feeling.
S6: Yeah, yeah.
S3: Would you say that some of these character qualities are
S3: more important than others?
S4: I would, so yeah, thanks for asking that. I don't
S4: want people thinking 48. I could never do that. And yes,
S4: you can. You actually can do it. Many of the
S4: qualities you and your children are already exhibiting, I think
S4: you'll be encouraged by that. But I did come up
S4: with a baker's dozen 13, the top 13 that I
S4: think are significant, and from that there's a top 3
S4: or 4 that I can quickly mention. Uh, the first
S4: one is gratitude. A gratitude is a parent virtue. There's evidence,
S4: both in Scripture and in research, that people who are
S4: grateful develop many other qualities compassion and patience and generosity
S4: and optimism and joy and and inner peace and more so,
S4: gratitude is significant. Also, gratitude is evidence of spiritual maturity,
S4: and it also creates a spiritual maturity. So when we
S4: talk to our kids about how much we have to
S4: be grateful for, like gratitude can't just be one week
S4: a year or one day a year. We can't just
S4: be grateful the month of December to try to get
S4: more stuff. You know, if I say thank you to grandma,
S4: maybe she'll give me more stuff. No. Gratitude should be
S4: who we are and not something that we do. So
S4: that's number one. And then joy is number two and
S4: not circumstantial happiness, but a real internal joy. Of course,
S4: for the believer that is found in our relationship with
S4: Jesus Christ, so is is a child able to exhibit
S4: a dynamic, growing, life giving a relationship with Jesus Christ?
S4: Are we joyful and joyful and gratitude are like, what
S4: are they, cousins or siblings? Or maybe even a married couple?
S4: Like they're so close. Um, the research and again, the
S4: Scripture would say that grateful people are joyful. Joyful people
S4: are grateful. I prioritize those two because of what it
S4: does to the environment, in the home and to the
S4: heart of the child. The third one is self-efficacy. And
S4: to people who have never heard that word, don't panic.
S4: It's an unusual character quality, but it's so important. Self-efficacy
S4: simply means that I believe I can be effective, not effective,
S4: meaning that I'm independent from my parents, but effective, meaning
S4: that I can do what my parents ask me to do.
S4: So when you say to your child, please empty the
S4: dishwasher or, you know, go help your sister get ready
S4: for bed, your child doesn't freak out and go, oh,
S4: I can't do that. I'm only seven. No, you've trained
S4: your seven year old how to help the three year old.
S4: And when you say, hey, would you go help Elizabeth?
S4: She's like, sure. Like, wouldn't that be great if they're
S4: just like, okay, mom, no problem. You know, they still
S4: might complain sometimes, but kids who have self-efficacy believe in
S4: themselves and believe that they're capable of doing what they've
S4: been asked to do. So you have less complaining. You have,
S4: you know, less arguing in those kinds of things. And
S4: there's interesting research that suggests that these three are foundational
S4: to first time obedience. So that's why they're the top
S4: three in the book, not just because the Bible would
S4: proclaim the relevance of these three. But if you want
S4: your children to be obedient, like, I could have sold
S4: more copies of the book if I would have called it,
S4: you know, raise obedient kids. But I you know, it's
S4: not about sales, obviously, and I'm not going to do
S4: that because what what we know is that when a
S4: character has changed, the heart has changed, and now they'll
S4: be well and do well even when no one's looking.
S4: And that's what, of course, we want. So I'll leave
S4: it at that. There's more, but those are the top
S4: three that I write about.
S6: Yeah, yeah.
S3: How are children's beliefs connected to their character choices?
S4: I love that, um, so we teach at the ministry
S4: that beliefs cause behavior. And this isn't my rocket science. Like,
S4: this is just this is just true. That what we
S4: believe causes us to do what we do. So beliefs
S4: are not hidden. Let me say, Doctor Chapman, that the
S4: fourth character quality, the fourth in my list of 13,
S4: is self-respect. And I'll throw that out there, because if
S4: children do not respect themselves, nothing matters. If children do
S4: not believe that they are children of worth, they don't
S4: have to be good at anything. If children don't believe
S4: that God created them with good gifts and that they
S4: have a purpose yet to be discovered, just like Esther did,
S4: if they don't believe that about themselves, then they don't
S4: have to have healthy character, biblical character, Christlike character, obedience,
S4: or anything else. So that belief that I matter transforms everything.
S4: And then there's so many other examples, like if I
S4: believe my mom is mean, then I'm not going to
S4: listen to her with the heart to obey. If I
S4: believe my sister is preferred over me, I will be
S4: quickly jealous, quickly angry, quickly bitter, I will resent, I
S4: will not submit. It's going to be a mess. So
S4: beliefs are under the surface, but have to be dealt
S4: with in order for children and adults to make significant
S4: change that lasts.
S3: So how do you deal with those beliefs that that
S3: we as parents recognize are not positive beliefs, are not
S3: true beliefs, just is just the examples that you just mentioned.
S3: How does a parent deal with it?
S4: Well, if you if you're able to discover it, you know,
S4: praise God. Certainly you do. You look for patterns. You
S4: kids are old enough. Talk to them. You know, if
S4: you say to a kid, why did you just do that?
S4: Many of them will look at you like, I don't know,
S4: I just did it just like an adult. So I'll
S4: ask an adult, why did you just cut in line?
S4: And they look at me like, oh, did did I
S4: do that wrong? Was that wrong? Like, we're so patterned, right?
S4: And we're so selfish and arrogant at times. I think
S4: those are huge issues. Um, so I would observe for
S4: patterns because that will often indicate, oh, it's always when
S4: the sisters in the room, or it's always during math or.
S4: It's always on Sunday morning, so they're stressed about church.
S4: I wonder why they're always angry on Sunday mornings. So
S4: look for patterns and then you talk to the kids,
S4: but you talk to them in a respectful way, one
S4: on one. Not not with the siblings present. And you know, Jonathan,
S4: we're sad. We're concerned for some choices that you've been making.
S4: And we've been noticing that often you are critically, you're
S4: like critical and irritable when your older brother's in the room.
S4: So we're guessing there's something going on between you and
S4: your brother. We want to hear your heart. So could
S4: you share with us what's going on? So I think
S4: we ask a really heartfelt question, and then we're silent
S4: and we wait. And you know what? You know, you
S4: you know this Doctor Chapman. They often won't in the
S4: moment answer your question, but they'll come back 20 minutes
S4: or 2 hours later. Hey, dad. Hey, mom. I've been thinking,
S4: and it just it honors them that you care about
S4: what's going on. And I love that kids discover that
S4: they're not bad kids. They're not bad kids. They're not 24, seven, three,
S4: 65 behaving badly in that way. There's something triggering the response.
S4: And it's sin, you know, and they need to know
S4: that there is some control that they can bring to
S4: that issue. Yeah.
S3: How is character connected to family values?
S4: Right. I hope that parents have thought about what they value,
S4: and I hope that they recognize that there's a family value.
S4: You know, God ordains the family before he ordains the church.
S4: And why are we parenting these children? Why are we
S4: married and why are we parenting these children, whether that
S4: be through birth, adoption, or fostering? What about the grandparents?
S4: Why am I invested in these kids? So there is
S4: a reason you are a family and character is what
S4: allows us to make an impact. Character is what allows
S4: us to discover our gifts and use them for for
S4: God's glory. So that's how we pass on and maintain
S4: the family values, I think. I think it's essential just
S4: without character. We're nothing characters, our reputation character. Mark says.
S4: Character is the firm foundation of our decision making. I'm
S4: character is how we're known and so if you have
S4: a family value of generosity, moms and dads, let's say
S4: that you give to pregnancy resource centers. You give to
S4: prevent abortion. You give to the homeless or the hungry
S4: or to end trafficking you. You do more than tithing
S4: to your local church. You give to the building, plan
S4: to your kids. Know that. And why do you make
S4: those decisions? You talk about it and you talk about
S4: how you've chosen to be generous. Maybe your parents were
S4: generous and you learned it from them, and now you're
S4: hoping your kids are going to learn to be generous
S4: in times of plenty. And in times of want. You
S4: talk about it, you demonstrate it. You use the Scripture
S4: to to show them that this is God's choice, that
S4: we would behave in these ways. It's not simple, but
S4: it's it's very doable.
S6: Yeah.
S3: I'm glad you mentioned generosity, because, yeah, I think there
S3: are a lot of parents who are generous. You know,
S3: they support various mission causes and other things, but they
S3: don't they don't really inform their children about what they're doing.
S3: I don't know whether they think they're too young or.
S3: But but really, we ought to let them in on
S3: what we're doing. Right?
S4: Absolutely. I love asking children of all ages, what are
S4: some problems you would like to help solve? And then
S4: we help them give to those causes. There's a family
S4: in my own church that they ask the questions of
S4: their children every once in a while, and unbeknownst to them,
S4: one of their sons was in a public school with
S4: a foster child. There was a foster kid in his class,
S4: and he noticed that that boy always wore the same sweater.
S4: So when it was time for him to clean out
S4: his closet, he said to his mom, hey, could I
S4: see if Kevin could? Could I see if Kevin could
S4: wear these clothes? And so that mom contacted the teacher
S4: to ask permission to contact the parent to see if
S4: that was okay. And now that family, because of that
S4: little boy and one friend, that family now does respite
S4: care one Friday night a month for parents of foster
S4: kids so that they take care of the kids in
S4: the church so the parents can go have a date night.
S4: So that is a way that that family is generously
S4: serving with their time and their talent. Because of a
S4: little boy who was invited to think about what he
S4: cares about. And then the other the other issue, I
S4: would say, Gary, now that there's so much online giving
S4: kids don't even see their parents put money in an
S4: offering plate, and if they don't have access to a
S4: bank account, they don't know that we give to, you know, this,
S4: this college roommate who's now a missionary in India. Like,
S4: they need to know those kinds of things because it
S4: enlarges their understanding of who we are.
S1: Yeah. I think what you're saying is really important for
S1: our kids, but it's also important for us, Doctor Cook,
S1: because we've become so used to the direct debit from
S1: the account that we forget. You know, we forget unless
S1: we get an email from, you know, compassion or whomever
S1: we're supporting, unless you get that reminder. Oh yeah, that's right.
S1: You know, my my child's name and whatever country we
S1: need to remember what it is we're doing and then
S1: evaluate if we can, you know, can even do more
S1: in different areas, don't you think?
S4: I love that? In fact, I resisted the automatic debit
S4: from my, um, checking account for contributions for the longest time.
S4: For fear that I would stop praying because when I
S4: when I, you know, made out the check and put
S4: it in the envelope and mailed it, it leaves that
S4: one day a month I prayed for that cause. And
S4: yet I discovered that if I care enough about a cause,
S4: the Holy Spirit doesn't have to do a lot of
S4: work to remind me to pray. Uh, but, yeah, no,
S4: we we do need to be thinking, you know, issues
S4: are different and our people using the money. Well, let's
S4: look at, you know, the research about giving and how
S4: much of it goes to, you know, administration versus, you know,
S4: real ministry. There are there are questions we can be asking.
S4: And why not sit at the dining room table and
S4: show our kids how we how we think that through,
S4: how we pray that through and why we do what
S4: we do. I agree.
S3: I think it's so important that we have let the
S3: children be a part of that part of our lives.
S3: And I don't know why the parents, many parents have
S3: not done that, and they don't have that concept for
S3: some reason. But if they're going to if the children
S3: are going to grow up to have generosity in a
S3: in a heart of generosity, they're far more likely to
S3: do so if they've if they've seen their what their
S3: parents have done, you know, in this area.
S5: So yeah.
S4: And if they've seen the benefit of what their parents
S4: have done. So again, to talk a lot about the
S4: cause effect nature of what we're doing, the people listening
S4: don't know that generosity is actually the 13th of the
S4: baker's dozen qualities. I wanted an even dozen because it's
S4: just nice, right? And I couldn't fight the fact, though,
S4: that generosity had to be on the list. I was
S4: stunned when I did the research of how generosity causes
S4: so many other beautiful qualities service, compassion, gratefulness, and so
S4: many other things. So generosity is not just, again, money.
S4: It's time, talent, resources. And then, of course, the money
S4: is part of the resource.
S1: I think the answer to your question, Gary, of why
S1: don't parents do this? There is a certain sense of, well,
S1: if I tell my kids, you know, all of this, uh,
S1: it will feel like tooting our own horn or my
S1: own horn as parents. And we want to be humble.
S1: And so we don't want to boast about all the things,
S1: you know, all the money that we're giving. But I
S1: agree with you that if they if they're kept in
S1: the dark about this or even kept in the dark about,
S1: you know, the monthly budget, about how much it costs
S1: for this, not to overburden them with it. But, you know,
S1: they're part of a team that is is working in
S1: a family system together. I think there's a there's a
S1: humility angle to that, not letting them in that we
S1: need to get over.
S6: Yeah.
S3: Yeah, that may be true grace. It may be true.
S3: But I do think we need to get over it. Okay.
S7: All right.
S8: I love it.
S2: Our program is building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman. You
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S3: How can parents better understand what determines their children's choices?
S4: First, I would say we need to think more about
S4: what determines our choices. When we become more aware of
S4: why we behave the way we behave, we can better
S4: predict why our children might be doing what they're doing,
S4: and we'll begin to see the relationship between beliefs, the choices,
S4: and the outcome. And then the other thing that we
S4: do is we observe better. We we hang out, we
S4: put our phones down, we look with, um, an intensity.
S4: We listen with an intensity to understand, not to judge,
S4: but to understand. And then we we try to get
S4: under the surface. Right. And was it jealousy? I've decided,
S4: by the way, in my work that jealousy is just
S4: huge in the home. Sibling rivalry, um, disagreements with parents,
S4: so much of it is jealousy. So there might be
S4: in your kids just 3 or 4 things they can't
S4: get over the thorn in the side, if you will,
S4: the sin temptation that is really, really hard for them.
S4: So look for the pattern, look for some consistency and
S4: then and then talk about it.
S3: Talk about it is uh, something again that I think
S3: sometimes parents draw back from. But the reality is, if
S3: we don't discuss these things with the kids, we don't
S3: have any influence if we're not talking about it.
S7: Right.
S3: They can't read our minds.
S4: Amen. I was just about to say that they they
S4: can observe, but they can't interpret it. Yeah. So they
S4: can observe what we're doing. Maybe if they care enough
S4: about us. And that's a big if in some families, sadly,
S4: but they can't interpret what was going on in us
S4: that caused us to do what we did the way
S4: that we did it. So we do have to talk.
S4: And I think you earn that right when you listen
S4: to them and you earn that right when you don't lecture.
S4: I'm not. We're not talking about a long lecture. We're
S4: talking about sound bites. Hey, Billy, did you notice what
S4: I did? Let me tell you why. You know, our
S4: neighbor just had knee surgery. I'm not sure you knew that.
S4: So that's why I went and rake leaves. He didn't
S4: ask me to. He didn't have to ask me to.
S4: I knew that it was a loving thing to do.
S4: And I had time. And it was fun. I love
S4: the fresh air. No problem.
S6: Yeah, yeah.
S3: Well, there's no question that decision making is a huge
S3: part of a child's. Hearing. And all of us as parents,
S3: are concerned about whether our children make wise decisions. How
S3: can parents help their children feel safe enough to talk
S3: about or ask help in terms of making decisions? Uh,
S3: because I have I run in a lot of parents
S3: who say, you know, I don't want to tell them
S3: everything they should do, you know? And I don't want
S3: to force them to make decisions that are not their decisions.
S3: I want to and that's that's a worthy goal. I mean,
S3: we don't want to, you know, we want them to
S3: be to learn how to make wise decisions for themselves.
S3: But what what light can you shed on that topic?
S4: Right. So important. You know, one of the hard things
S4: for parents is to let kids make foolish decisions and
S4: suffer the consequences of their foolishness. No, I'm not saying
S4: let them run out into the road. Obviously they'll stop. Yeah,
S4: but when you see that your child has forgotten a
S4: lunch like it's. He walked right by it and it's
S4: a red lunchbox, it should not be hard to see.
S4: And it's right on the breakfast bar. But he walked
S4: right past it. Don't always rescue him and say, hey,
S4: get your lunch. Sometimes let him suffer the consequences of
S4: his inattentive choice. Right. And then another thing that we
S4: do again, I think we admit our struggles. We admit
S4: that we made decisions that were not wise, and that
S4: gives our kids a chance to find out. How do
S4: we know it was unwise and what were the consequences?
S4: And what are we going to do differently the next time?
S4: And basically, you know, to be present and available, no
S4: child is. Kids tell me all the time, I'm not
S4: going to go talk to my mom if her phone's
S4: in the hand, if she has her phone, as soon
S4: as it buzzes or bings or things are ringing, she's gone.
S4: And so, Doctor Cathy, I'm not going to have a
S4: hard conversation and have to start it over. So if
S4: you want your kids to come to you and say,
S4: you know, I found out this kid was gossiping about
S4: me and mommy, I don't know what to do. Your
S4: daughter is not going to come to you and ask
S4: for help in that, you know. She feels that you
S4: won't understand, that you won't have compassion, and that you
S4: won't be available to long enough to problem solve. And yeah,
S4: we could talk all day about it. It's so important.
S3: Yeah. I mean, you the whole thing about the phone
S3: and then interrupting your conversation with a child because your
S3: phone rang. Uh, I mean, it's just commonplace in so
S3: many families, you know, and they fail to recognize that
S3: what they're communicating is somebody out there that you don't
S3: know is more important than you are, you know?
S4: Oh, exactly.
S3: Use voicemail. Okay.
S7: Let it go. Let it go. Yeah. No, it's it's
S7: very hurtful.
S4: And children tell us that they're not able to say
S4: that to mom. They're not able to say mom like
S4: they're afraid to say I was hurt when you answered
S4: the phone. Um, yeah, I know, voicemail. And if they
S4: don't want to leave a message, then tough. And there's texting,
S4: you know, and I have I've actually started recommending that
S4: parents put their phone in airplane mode. You know, if
S4: you've never flown, you don't know what that is. But
S4: airplane mode you won't get you won't get any vibration
S4: at all. You won't have any clue that anything is
S4: going on. If your phone is on silent, you can
S4: still realize that something just happened and you glance over
S4: at it. And as soon as you do that, your
S4: sons and daughters are thinking, yeah, she doesn't really care.
S4: And that's not what you mean to communicate. You know,
S4: no parent means to communicate that, but it's the child's
S4: perception that is what's so rich and important here.
S3: Now you write that character traits are connected. That is,
S3: various character traits are connected, and that understanding this is
S3: a key to teaching character traits. Can you explain that
S3: a bit?
S4: I would love to. It's one of the reasons that
S4: I have quote unquote, only 48 qualities rather than 120,
S4: because I realized that if you teach one and you
S4: teach it in a broader context, you can actually be
S4: teaching 3 or 4 at the same time as an example.
S4: And I discovered this when I was writing the book
S4: I love to read, because it helps me think I
S4: was in line to get on a plane in an airport.
S4: Long story. I won't go into it all, but I
S4: was patient. The people around me weren't. And this isn't
S4: about me being amazing. There's plenty of days I'm impatient,
S4: but on this particular day I was able to exhibit
S4: the quality of patience, and I and I finally got
S4: onto the airplane after quite a messy situation. And I'm like,
S4: why was I able to do that? Like I said,
S4: thank you. I didn't, you know, gripe at the people. Well,
S4: I realized that my patience was founded upon my other centeredness.
S4: I care more about others than I do myself. Compassion.
S4: So I was compassionate for the woman who was checking
S4: us in for our flight. Optimism, where I have a
S4: tendency to think well for people before I would think badly,
S4: and humility and flexibility or flexibility. Is top 48 like
S4: being able to, you know, not have to be in
S4: control to not argue and debate every time there's a
S4: change of plans. So if you rather than, you know,
S4: be patient, be patient. Why aren't you more patient? I
S4: wonder if it would be beneficial to talk about, you know,
S4: if you would have compassion for your grandmother. Her neighbor
S4: just fell and broke her hip. So grandma is scared
S4: now to walk. And when you run around, she gets
S4: nervous and you'll notice that she kind of freezes. I
S4: wonder if you held her hand and walked with her
S4: instead of in front of her, and walk slowly with her.
S4: That would. Oh, that would be so loving. And that
S4: would demonstrate compassion for the fear that your grandmother has.
S4: Could you do that for us? Those kinds of conversations
S4: connect beliefs to behavior and show them how the character
S4: qualities are connected. And they honor God and they glorify God.
S4: And that's, you know, that's the bottom line. So I
S4: hope that makes sense.
S3: Yeah. I don't know that I have thought in terms
S3: of that myself, to be honest with you, because I
S3: typically tend to see these traits is just isolated things.
S3: But in reality, what you're saying is true. They're not isolated,
S3: they're tied together and one impacts the other. So that's
S3: going to help me the next time I'm in the airport.
S3: Asked myself, I love it was I why was I patient.
S7: I love it, why was it not patient?
S4: Why was I not patient?
S7: Yeah.
S3: Well, when identifying positive character traits, uh, to develop in the,
S3: in our children, why is it important to also identify
S3: and talk about their negative traits?
S4: I think sometimes the negative is easier to see. So
S4: our parents are frustrated by their kids being rude and
S4: inattentive and disagreeable and dishonest. So the negative is easy
S4: to see. We talk about it. Don't be dishonest. But
S4: the change process from Ephesians 422 through 24 would teach
S4: us that we have to take off the old self
S4: and put on the new self. So if you want
S4: a child to become honest, they have to take off dishonesty.
S4: If you want a child to become agreeable, they have
S4: to take off the disagreeable spirit. So I think it's
S4: beneficial for a parent to see the connection and to
S4: decide what to talk about. And I would like us
S4: to talk more about what we want than what we
S4: currently have. So you talk about being agreeable rather than
S4: don't be so disagreeable, so use the word that you
S4: want your children to exhibit because they become who we
S4: say they are. But when we know as parents, educators
S4: and grandparents that there's a negative we're trying to overcome.
S4: I think it trains us to talk differently and it
S4: gives kids hope. I've watched families, you know, take a
S4: whiteboard and make a make a list. I'm going to
S4: take off this and put on this. I'm going to
S4: take off this and put on this. So in the
S4: back of the book, the appendix that I have for
S4: each of the 48 qualities, I actually list 4 or
S4: 5 negatives for each of the positives. And our readers
S4: have found that really helpful to go there and go, okay,
S4: I'm really bugged by this behavior. What's the opposite? Because
S4: you know what, Doctor Chapman? Sometimes parents are so tired, right?
S4: And they're so sick of their kids behavior. Like, I
S4: get that, that all they see is the red flag.
S4: All they see is what? They're driving me nuts. So
S4: we need to. We need to think. No, no, no,
S4: what would be the opposite? And then how can I
S4: make that happen? Through the Gloria. Right.
S3: Yeah. I want to go back to the you mentioned
S3: the lying because this is a common factor in, in
S3: raising children that children do lie and sometimes just bald
S3: faced lie. Uh, how does the parent respond to that?
S4: Well, with grace and mercy, because we've all done it
S4: with a belief that our kids aren't bad. There's something
S4: triggering the decision fear they're going to get caught. They
S4: have an expectation for themselves that isn't realistic, but they
S4: can't believe that they're wrong about themselves. You know, dad's
S4: going to get mad. Whatever. And the consequent, the consequences
S4: are so important. So if children lie, a consequence is
S4: we check up on them. So if your son comes
S4: home from the neighbor after playing a while, you call
S4: the neighbor, well, mommy, what are you doing? Well, I'm
S4: calling Miss Jane to find out how if you behaved. Okay, well, mommy,
S4: I just told you that I was good. Yes, but
S4: yesterday you didn't tell me the truth. So the consequence
S4: for your choice to lie is that I make a
S4: choice to call and check up on you. So this is.
S4: This is what happens when we catch you, you know,
S4: with a pattern of behavior that concerns us. We're going
S4: to check up. And once we find out that you
S4: are telling us the truth again, you know, we'll stop
S4: checking up on you. But I think one of the
S4: things that's very, very important is to let them know
S4: there are consequences for their decisions, good consequences with good
S4: character choices and negative consequences when when they mess up,
S4: if I can put it that way.
S2: This is building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Our
S2: guest is Doctor Cathy Cook, author of Parent Differently. It's
S2: our featured resource at Building Relationships. Us just go to
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S3: Doctor cook, we were talking about this somewhat in the
S3: last segment, but let's let's talk further on this whole
S3: issue of in what ways do positive and negative consequences
S3: build biblical character in children?
S4: Right, right. I believe that all character starts with choice.
S4: All choices are rooted in a worldview, which is why
S4: a Christian worldview is so important. So when we have
S4: positive and negative consequences in place, like we don't get
S4: in the way of the wave that don't always rescue
S4: your kids, let them suffer the consequences of their choices.
S4: Then they begin to understand, oh, this is why mommy said,
S4: be kind. This is why mommy said, don't gossip. This
S4: is why mommy said generosity is beautiful. Oh, this is
S4: why dad said he likes that I'm resilient. He said
S4: that he likes that I'm not giving up and I'm
S4: trying more. And look, I did better today. So daddy
S4: was right. That resiliency is a good thing. So we
S4: talk about the cause effect nature. Again they don't necessarily
S4: think that way. We can help them think that way.
S4: A true example was a dad who heard me speak
S4: about this. Who? Forgot to turn in a report at work,
S4: and the supervisor knocked on the door an hour after
S4: it was due and said, hey, you know Ben, where's
S4: the report? And so the dad came home and said
S4: to his kids, man, I got to tell you guys
S4: I had a bad day at work. I chose to
S4: do what I wanted to do at work rather than
S4: what my boss told me to do. I know you
S4: guys have sometimes done that too, and I didn't get
S4: the report done that he needed. So I'm not going
S4: to get to go to your soccer game tonight. And
S4: I'm so sorry. I've got to stay home and get
S4: this thing done. And I'm going to have to build trust.
S4: My boss doesn't trust me. I'm going to have to
S4: rebuild trust. He's probably going to doubt whether or not
S4: I'll do something right. So one of the things I
S4: did kids was I went into my calendar and I've
S4: already outlined that every Tuesday at 2:00 the report is due.
S4: So that's now highlighted in my calendar, hoping that that's
S4: going to help me not make the same mistake. So
S4: we talk about the consequences that we've experienced in hopes
S4: that our kids will begin to put two and two
S4: together and get four.
S3: Yeah, yeah, I think it's important also, and I know
S3: you do in terms of when you have a rule
S3: for children, tell them what the consequences will be if
S3: they break the rule so they know and you know,
S3: what's going to happen. You know, I remember my son,
S3: he had a relatively new bicycle. And I said, now
S3: let's let's have one rule here every night before, you know,
S3: you come in and we get ready for bed and
S3: all of that, you put your bicycle in the shed
S3: and and if you don't, if you leave it out
S3: one night, then the consequences are you do not get
S3: to ride the bicycle the next day. Uh, is that
S3: is that okay with you? Well, you know, yeah. He
S3: thought that was fair, and I thought that was fair.
S3: So I remember the first time it happened. And so
S3: I said to him, I said, oh, Derek, I said,
S3: I noticed you left your bicycle out last night. And
S3: I said, you remember the consequences, right? You don't get
S3: to ride the bicycle today. He's all dead. But all
S3: the guys are going to be riding this afternoon. Dad
S3: let me ride the day, dad, and not tomorrow. Mom
S3: and I said, you know, son, I can see how
S3: you'd feel that way. Because if you're if your kids,
S3: if your friends want to ride, you'd want to ride
S3: with them. And if I were in your shoes, I'd
S3: feel the same way. But remember, we we agreed on
S3: the consequences. So. I'm sorry, but I can't let you
S3: ride the bicycle today because, you know, you broke the rule. Well,
S3: he wasn't happy, but he never did it again. He
S3: never did it again. Amen. So I think if parents
S3: can get that concept that, you know, let them suffer
S3: the consequence, we tend to kind of cave in if
S3: they cry, you know, or yes, we should be empathetic, you.
S7: Know, but.
S3: But let them suffer the consequences. Yeah. It's the way
S3: we learn. Oh, goodness.
S4: No parent wants their kids to be miserable, but it's
S4: a short misery for greater gain. So there's two things
S4: in your example that I just want to highlight that
S4: I think are so important. When you have a child say,
S4: I agree. You know, when you say that, you know,
S4: every night the bike goes in the shed and here's why.
S4: You know, it could get stolen, the weather could, you know,
S4: make it rusty, whatever. Here's the reason. And and so
S4: you've agreed and you have your son say, I agree.
S4: And you teach your kids that their word matters. Jesus
S4: is the word. His word matters. Our words matter. We
S4: become who we say we are. So I agree, dad.
S4: And now then the next day. Because I know you agreed.
S4: So don't tell me that you didn't understand. And then
S4: the other thing is, when you say, you know, you say, no, no,
S4: I understand that you're hurt, that you can't ride the bike.
S4: But the answer is no. This is where parents and
S4: I don't envy them. This doctor Chapman, do you have
S4: to let your know be known and you let you.
S4: And then you. Maybe you distract the kid and you say, hey,
S4: why don't you. Why don't you sit and, you know,
S4: shoot or why don't you shoot hoops or, you know,
S4: do you want to come in and work on the
S4: jigsaw puzzle, or do you want to go walking like
S4: show them that there's alternatives, but let them let them
S4: suffer the consequences of their decision. You are not a
S4: mean dad and your kid is not a bad kid.
S4: Something happened there. Love that example. Yeah.
S3: Well, you know, we talked briefly about, uh, the whole
S3: biblical concept of children. What did Jesus believe about children
S3: and why is that important? Uh, for parents of children
S3: to understand.
S4: Yeah, I love this. It is part of biblical character
S4: is to really get in touch with, uh, Jesus's beliefs.
S4: You know, back when Jesus was on earth, he really
S4: was here for a while. Uh, children were the forgotten generation.
S4: They were, you know, swept behind mama's skirts, if you will.
S4: They weren't seen or talked to until they matured. And yet,
S4: when the learned men, you know, said, who among us
S4: is the greatest? Jesus called up a child, and I
S4: and Doctor Chapman, I can just picture the man mumbling.
S4: Did he hear the question? Right? You know. Oh, who
S4: among us is the greatest who calls up a kid,
S4: you know? And when the learned men were trying to
S4: keep the the children away from Jesus because they felt Jesus,
S4: you know, didn't have time, he was so important. Jesus said,
S4: let the little children come to me. And so Jesus,
S4: who was busier than will ever be with the more
S4: important agenda than will ever have, took time for children
S4: and in front of adults celebrated them. That's where the
S4: name Celebrity Kids comes from. So he believed they were
S4: special and precious and important and wanted and significant and
S4: good examples and capable of of knowing him and worshiping
S4: him and so much else. So when we are discouraged
S4: by our children's choices, and that's going to happen because
S4: children are children and we are imperfect parents, let's get
S4: in touch with, hey, this is what Jesus wants me
S4: to believe. These children are precious in his sight, if
S4: not in my sight today. You know they're precious in
S4: his sight. And I think it's a fun study of
S4: Scripture to look at the different interactions that Jesus had
S4: with kids. And what conclusions can you draw about his
S4: beliefs because his beliefs cause those behaviors so important?
S3: Well, let's as we come to a close today, uh,
S3: let me ask this. What if there's a parent listening
S3: today whose teenager has rebelled? They're out of control, and
S3: the parents really tried their best to do everything that
S3: the things that we're talking about today. What would you
S3: say to that parent?
S9: Oh, way to end on an.
S4: Easy note, Doctor Chapman. I would say don't give up.
S4: You can't give up. These are your kids or this
S4: is your son or daughter. So I would ask that
S4: you make sure you surround yourself with God's presence and
S4: the presence of his people, who will build you up
S4: and encourage you and, um, be in the Word of God,
S4: which is strength and life to you, the daily bread
S4: that you need in order to have the compassion and
S4: the love and the strength that you need in order
S4: to continually talk with and and deal with a rebellious kid.
S4: I pray and pray expecting pray regularly and pray expecting
S4: that God is on your side and is going to
S4: make a way. And I think I would. I would
S4: respectfully ask you to consider whether or not you have
S4: done everything we've talked about. Kids tell me, you know,
S4: my parents do a lot of telling. They don't really
S4: do a lot of teaching. Let me say that we
S4: drill and skill the ABCs and the one, two, three
S4: and we state a rule and expect compliance. But because
S4: of sin, character and obedience are harder to teach than
S4: anything else. And and that's why our example matters so much.
S4: And that's why direct instruction. Good old fashioned, this is
S4: the way we do it, not to this way. It's
S4: really important. And I would say that we can say
S4: to some kids, some rebellious kids, some kids who are
S4: not walking well with us, we can we can explain that.
S4: We know we've let you down with, you know, the
S4: lack of of hope here. We really want to start
S4: with a fresh slate. Could we do that on January 1st?
S4: Can we do that on February 1st? Could we do
S4: that tomorrow? Could we wake up tomorrow and could it
S4: be a new day? And could you give us a
S4: fresh start? As we're learning, we're still learning to parent.
S4: And would you give yourself a fresh start and stop
S4: looking back at the harm and at the the frustration?
S4: So that's what's on my heart. Give yourself grace and
S4: mercy and and and all those things.
S3: I think that's so important. And the reality is, you know,
S3: we're not responsible for our own, especially our older children's
S3: things that they do or don't do. Uh, but but
S3: we should, but we shouldn't take that on as a
S3: burden that I have failed. Uh, yes. I think we
S3: should ask God. Lord, show me where I have failed.
S3: And yes, confess that to God. And then, as you
S3: just described, confess it to the child and ask for
S3: a fresh start. Having done that, then I think what
S3: we want to do is try to let our behavior
S3: be different after that, because that's what if the child
S3: is still in the it's still at home. They're looking
S3: for a change in your behavior, if indeed you know
S3: you've been part of the problem. Well, let me, uh,
S3: not only thank you for being with us today, Doctor Cook,
S3: but also, uh, for this book, because I think, like
S3: all of your books, they're very, very practical. And I
S3: think the parents who are listening, we all want our
S3: children to have godly, biblical. Your character, and this book
S3: spells it out in a way that I think is
S3: going to be very, very helpful to parents. So thanks
S3: again for writing it and thanks for being with us.
S4: Thank you for your affirmation. It's always a joy to
S4: spend time with you. I appreciate you a lot.
S1: There's a lot of hope here. The title of Doctor
S1: Kathy Cook's latest is Parent differently raised Kids with Biblical
S1: Character that changes culture. We have at length at our
S1: website building relationships us again go to building relationships.us.
S3: And next week I'm going to take your calls and
S3: questions about the love, languages and relationship struggles.
S2: Don't miss our January edition of Dear Gary. In one week.
S2: Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their
S2: work behind the scenes. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
S2: is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
S2: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.