1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:05,960 S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond its cast 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:10,680 S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,440 S1: what seems impossible and live. As you never imagined. Start 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,880 S1: your morning with a laugh. 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:22,119 S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not tricks, 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,600 S2: but tips and tricks. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,400 S3: Tips and tricks to kill. Tips and tricks. 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,400 S1: Delivering the truth daily. 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,280 S4: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,760 S4: with achievement and good works. Well, God wasn't impressed by that. 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,239 S4: Even if other people were. 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,040 S2: The gospel changes everything. 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,519 S5: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement 14 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,440 S5: just falling to the ground. 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,920 S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl 16 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,680 S1: and crew. It is a week of Ask the Experts. 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,520 S1: And if you haven't been here. Oh my goodness. And 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,000 S1: I got some good news for you. It's not lost. 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,600 S1: It's not gone, is it, ally? 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,679 S4: No. This show cast. I expect the numbers to be 21 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,440 S4: record breaking again on this Ask the expert series. Just 22 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:16,640 S4: text show to 800 555 7898. Text show to 800 23 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,320 S4: 555 7898. Carl, when's the last time you asked an 24 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,000 S4: expert for advice on something? Whether it. Can you remember? 25 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,160 S1: Oh, this morning, I mean, honestly, I asked experts all 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,600 S1: the time. And I'm not talking on a radio show. 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,640 S1: I mean, I, I query AI to ask experts who 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:38,520 S1: are dead and gone. 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:39,040 S4: Yeah. 30 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,440 S1: I mean, I'm always asking experts for input, always living 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:45,160 S1: and dead. 32 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:51,160 S4: I ask my dad for questions on good. I like 33 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,280 S4: that it's usually related to like home stuff. 34 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,800 S2: Whether maybe dads and home stuff. 35 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,850 S4: Whether stuff he gives me, he gives us the weather report, 36 00:02:01,850 --> 00:02:05,450 S4: which I appreciate. I like being able to ask questions. 37 00:02:05,450 --> 00:02:07,690 S4: I ask basketball questions of my husband. 38 00:02:07,730 --> 00:02:10,970 S1: Oh, boy. Of course you do, Henry. He's got it 39 00:02:10,970 --> 00:02:15,130 S1: going on. He was a three point wizard in Europe, and, uh, 40 00:02:15,370 --> 00:02:17,730 S1: one of his biggest fans still, obviously. 41 00:02:18,010 --> 00:02:18,610 S4: Well, the funny. 42 00:02:18,650 --> 00:02:19,530 S1: Thing is, this guy. 43 00:02:20,090 --> 00:02:23,290 S4: After games, because both of my kids play. They all. 44 00:02:23,330 --> 00:02:26,090 S4: They want to talk to dad first, so, like, they 45 00:02:26,130 --> 00:02:29,810 S4: kind of bypass me. So I'm like, hey, great game. 46 00:02:29,850 --> 00:02:33,209 S4: And they're like, dad, what did you see? Like, does 47 00:02:33,210 --> 00:02:34,889 S4: anyone want to know what I saw? 48 00:02:35,490 --> 00:02:39,650 S3: Hello. The answer is no. Like, I mean, they do. 49 00:02:39,690 --> 00:02:40,450 S3: There was some really. 50 00:02:40,450 --> 00:02:42,290 S4: Strong running around out there. 51 00:02:43,570 --> 00:02:46,210 S3: Great job draining those shots, Allie. 52 00:02:46,250 --> 00:02:47,450 S1: You're being mean to yourself. 53 00:02:47,490 --> 00:02:47,850 S4: No, but. 54 00:02:47,850 --> 00:02:48,130 S3: I mean. 55 00:02:48,130 --> 00:02:48,370 S1: Because. 56 00:02:48,370 --> 00:02:49,130 S3: You know. 57 00:02:49,130 --> 00:02:51,250 S4: Basketball. But I don't know basketball. 58 00:02:51,290 --> 00:02:51,930 S3: Yeah you do. 59 00:02:52,050 --> 00:02:53,810 S4: Not not the not the. 60 00:02:53,810 --> 00:02:55,010 S3: New Henry does. 61 00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:57,570 S4: Like he will tell them in a heartbeat. Your guide 62 00:02:57,690 --> 00:03:00,889 S4: hand is not straight enough. That's why your shots not 63 00:03:00,889 --> 00:03:03,570 S4: going in. That's why you're missing long. I could never 64 00:03:03,570 --> 00:03:07,010 S4: tell them that. I don't know why you're missing shots. 65 00:03:07,210 --> 00:03:09,730 S4: He can tell them he's an expert on basketball. 66 00:03:09,770 --> 00:03:14,169 S1: Yeah, he is asking its experts all week long here. 67 00:03:14,210 --> 00:03:16,570 S1: Be sure to get the show cast. Look at all 68 00:03:16,570 --> 00:03:20,810 S1: three episodes for each day, because we're taking every expert 69 00:03:20,810 --> 00:03:24,050 S1: and giving them their own podcast. How about them apples? 70 00:03:24,090 --> 00:03:25,810 S2: No joke. It makes. It certainly makes it easier for 71 00:03:25,810 --> 00:03:28,049 S2: you to find exactly what you're looking for. 72 00:03:28,169 --> 00:03:30,690 S1: Wow. Young thunders chiming in. You got that beef burger 73 00:03:30,690 --> 00:03:32,049 S1: out of your mouth. Finally washed. 74 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:33,690 S2: Down. I did, yeah, that's great. 75 00:03:34,169 --> 00:03:34,530 S3: Breakfast. 76 00:03:34,570 --> 00:03:38,490 S2: Breakfast burrito. And I'm hungry in the morning so. 77 00:03:38,690 --> 00:03:42,770 S3: Poor guy can't even eat. Tex showed 800 555. 78 00:03:42,810 --> 00:03:46,570 S4: 78, 98. We've got dueling breakfast in here. Tex. Show 79 00:03:46,570 --> 00:03:49,450 S4: to 800 555, 78, 98. 80 00:03:49,450 --> 00:03:53,250 S1: Coming up, you want some advice on marriage? You want 81 00:03:53,290 --> 00:03:55,810 S1: to hear the tough stuff? We're going to wade right 82 00:03:55,810 --> 00:03:59,370 S1: into it with our special guest and expert coming up. 83 00:04:00,010 --> 00:04:03,130 S6: Get your info from a source you can trust. It's 84 00:04:03,170 --> 00:04:05,650 S6: Ask the Experts week with Carl and crew. 85 00:04:05,690 --> 00:04:06,330 S1: What a week. 86 00:04:06,370 --> 00:04:10,330 S4: Ali, ask the expert has delivered on its promise. 87 00:04:10,890 --> 00:04:14,610 S1: It's been amazing. Well, let's jump right in. And we've 88 00:04:14,610 --> 00:04:17,289 S1: got Jill Savage with us right now. We're going to 89 00:04:17,290 --> 00:04:19,810 S1: get raw. We're going to get honest. We're going to 90 00:04:19,810 --> 00:04:21,930 S1: come out of the shoot hot here. Jill, you can 91 00:04:21,930 --> 00:04:23,090 S1: handle it. Right, sister? 92 00:04:23,730 --> 00:04:24,970 S7: I am okay with it. 93 00:04:25,010 --> 00:04:28,690 S1: Yeah. You know, and all kidding and joking aside, I 94 00:04:28,690 --> 00:04:31,330 S1: want to go back to something that you've gladly you 95 00:04:31,330 --> 00:04:34,210 S1: and your husband both have shared on air here with us. 96 00:04:34,650 --> 00:04:37,810 S1: But there was a time when your husband cheated on you. 97 00:04:37,850 --> 00:04:42,610 S1: He broke that covenant relationship and it ravaged your home. 98 00:04:43,210 --> 00:04:46,529 S1: I want to ask. And I've never asked this of you. 99 00:04:46,890 --> 00:04:51,010 S1: Looking back, did you see any yellow or red flags? 100 00:04:51,529 --> 00:04:53,890 S1: And the reason I asked that is I don't want 101 00:04:53,890 --> 00:04:56,740 S1: people to borrow trouble, but we want them to be 102 00:04:56,740 --> 00:04:59,739 S1: alert to what's going on. What have you learned there, Jill? 103 00:05:00,220 --> 00:05:04,660 S7: Um, he was definitely not in a good place emotionally, 104 00:05:04,820 --> 00:05:08,140 S7: and he was not in a good place spiritually. Did 105 00:05:08,140 --> 00:05:12,419 S7: I think that that would lead to him being unfaithful? No. 106 00:05:12,779 --> 00:05:17,060 S7: Like that never crossed my mind. Yeah. I just didn't 107 00:05:17,060 --> 00:05:20,660 S7: think that that would even be possible. Um, and I've, 108 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:23,700 S7: you know, sometimes when we share the story, it became 109 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:26,300 S7: that he really wasn't my husband. Like, I didn't know 110 00:05:26,460 --> 00:05:29,979 S7: this man that I was married to. He became someone 111 00:05:30,020 --> 00:05:33,219 S7: other than who I knew him to be, deep down. 112 00:05:33,460 --> 00:05:38,140 S7: But I will say, I knew he was emotionally spiraling. 113 00:05:38,339 --> 00:05:42,180 S7: I knew he was spiritually spiraling and he wasn't in 114 00:05:42,180 --> 00:05:47,260 S7: a good place. So definitely red flags there. Yes. Um, 115 00:05:47,260 --> 00:05:52,420 S7: but I didn't realize how, you know, just where that 116 00:05:52,420 --> 00:05:55,940 S7: would eventually take him. And it doesn't mean that anybody 117 00:05:55,940 --> 00:06:00,220 S7: who's emotionally and spiritually spiraling is going to become unfaithful, right? 118 00:06:00,260 --> 00:06:04,660 S7: It doesn't mean that. Right? But, um, certainly, uh, he 119 00:06:04,660 --> 00:06:07,380 S7: was not in a good place. And when we're not 120 00:06:07,380 --> 00:06:09,740 S7: in a good place, we're in the flesh. And when 121 00:06:09,740 --> 00:06:11,540 S7: we're in the flesh, honestly. 122 00:06:11,580 --> 00:06:12,220 S1: All bets are. 123 00:06:12,220 --> 00:06:13,380 S7: Off. That's right. 124 00:06:13,580 --> 00:06:16,180 S4: Jill Savage is our guest this morning. Our guest expert. 125 00:06:16,180 --> 00:06:19,620 S4: She is an author, blogger, international speaker. She hosts the 126 00:06:19,660 --> 00:06:23,100 S4: No More Perfect podcast. She's been featured on focus on 127 00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:27,180 S4: the family, crosswalk, FamilyLife today, Today's Christian Woman. Her and 128 00:06:27,180 --> 00:06:30,940 S4: her husband are servant ministry together, her husband Mark. They 129 00:06:30,980 --> 00:06:34,620 S4: meet the needs of families as authors and speakers and coaches. 130 00:06:34,660 --> 00:06:36,580 S1: You know, I want to follow up on that one, Jill, 131 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:43,820 S1: because my personal conviction is, yes, adultery has devastating impact 132 00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:47,380 S1: on a marriage and children, no doubt about it. But 133 00:06:47,380 --> 00:06:52,580 S1: the reality is, anytime anyone isn't doing well spiritually, all 134 00:06:52,620 --> 00:06:56,309 S1: bets are off in any idle can take. The high 135 00:06:56,350 --> 00:07:00,029 S1: ground of our heart in all of us are at risk. 136 00:07:00,070 --> 00:07:01,750 S1: Pour out your heart about that one, Jill. 137 00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:06,350 S7: You know. Absolutely. I think that when the enemy starts 138 00:07:06,350 --> 00:07:11,510 S7: whispering lies and oftentimes we don't realize them as lies. Right? 139 00:07:11,710 --> 00:07:14,790 S7: And Mark will even talk about that season of his life, 140 00:07:14,790 --> 00:07:18,830 S7: like the preseason to his infidelity. What had happened is 141 00:07:18,830 --> 00:07:23,070 S7: he had lost hope. Like if you lose your way spiritually, 142 00:07:23,070 --> 00:07:27,550 S7: you're going to lose hope. And so he had lost hope. 143 00:07:27,550 --> 00:07:30,750 S7: And so then the enemy starts to whisper, you know, 144 00:07:30,790 --> 00:07:33,310 S7: this is what the answer is. And look, this is 145 00:07:33,310 --> 00:07:36,310 S7: what the answer is. And oh, this person will really 146 00:07:36,310 --> 00:07:42,790 S7: understand you. And so we become really vulnerable to the 147 00:07:42,790 --> 00:07:47,910 S7: lies of the enemy when we begin to spiritually wander. 148 00:07:47,910 --> 00:07:49,710 S7: And I mean, we're vulnerable to the lies of the 149 00:07:49,710 --> 00:07:54,270 S7: enemy all the time, but we are much more likely 150 00:07:54,270 --> 00:07:57,989 S7: to identify them as lies when we're walking in the spirit, 151 00:07:57,990 --> 00:08:00,630 S7: rather than when we're walking in the flesh, when we're 152 00:08:00,630 --> 00:08:02,430 S7: in a deep, dark place. 153 00:08:02,470 --> 00:08:04,550 S4: Jill Savage, our guest. This hour we're going to be 154 00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:09,230 S4: tackling questions on marriage and even some parenting questions. Let's 155 00:08:09,230 --> 00:08:12,350 S4: talk a little bit about your background. This No More 156 00:08:12,350 --> 00:08:15,510 S4: perfect has kind of become your theme. You've got the podcast, 157 00:08:15,550 --> 00:08:18,070 S4: you've got some books. No more perfect moms, no more 158 00:08:18,070 --> 00:08:21,870 S4: perfect kids, no more perfect marriages. Definitely see the theme there. 159 00:08:22,230 --> 00:08:26,870 S4: What is the heart behind just really embracing the idea 160 00:08:26,870 --> 00:08:28,710 S4: that none of us are perfect? 161 00:08:28,870 --> 00:08:31,270 S7: Well, let me tell you, all of my books come 162 00:08:31,270 --> 00:08:34,230 S7: out of all of my struggles. And so I've written 163 00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:36,630 S7: well over 20 books. So, you know, that's only a 164 00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:38,030 S7: portion of my struggles. 165 00:08:38,030 --> 00:08:40,350 S3: But boy. 166 00:08:40,510 --> 00:08:43,190 S1: Somebody said, boy, this expert's got a lot of struggles. 167 00:08:43,230 --> 00:08:44,630 S1: The fact is we do, don't we? 168 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:47,110 S7: We all do. We all do. It's just some of 169 00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:49,350 S7: us are more willing to talk about it than others. 170 00:08:49,350 --> 00:08:53,430 S7: And so one of my struggles was with perfectionism. I'm 171 00:08:53,429 --> 00:08:58,110 S7: a type A personality. I am first born. I mean, 172 00:08:58,150 --> 00:09:00,550 S7: it just kind of comes with the territory with a 173 00:09:00,550 --> 00:09:05,190 S7: lot of that. And so I identified something that I 174 00:09:05,350 --> 00:09:07,630 S7: used to call before I wrote the books. I called 175 00:09:07,630 --> 00:09:12,630 S7: it for myself The Perfection Infection. What's the perfection infection? 176 00:09:12,630 --> 00:09:17,150 S7: It's when we have unrealistic expectations of ourselves or others. 177 00:09:17,390 --> 00:09:22,430 S7: And when we unfairly compare ourselves or we unfairly compare others. 178 00:09:22,990 --> 00:09:27,309 S7: And that is what makes the perfection infection happen. I 179 00:09:27,350 --> 00:09:32,470 S7: struggled with that. I became judgmental and critical with my 180 00:09:32,510 --> 00:09:37,670 S7: unrealistic expectations of others. I was my own worst critic 181 00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:41,510 S7: with my unrealistic expectations of myself. And then that whole 182 00:09:41,510 --> 00:09:45,150 S7: comparison thing. My goodness, we live in a culture that 183 00:09:45,150 --> 00:09:49,950 S7: makes comparisons so easy because we are in the photoshopped culture. 184 00:09:49,950 --> 00:09:53,400 S7: We're in the filtered culture, and so we're always comparing 185 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,480 S7: ourselves to something that isn't real. All of that robs 186 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:03,920 S7: us of contentment, and when we experience discontentment over time, 187 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:09,880 S7: we then experience discouragement and then disillusionment and eventually disconnection. 188 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,920 S1: Our expert guest, Jill Savage, coming up here in a moment. Jill, 189 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,920 S1: I want to cast a picture for you. And it's 190 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,319 S1: the high ridge. Got to go. High ridge here, Ali. 191 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:20,280 S3: Okay. Let's go. 192 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,280 S1: And the high ridge would be not perfection, but the 193 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,760 S1: high ridge would be utter dependence on God and clinging 194 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,559 S1: to him. Now, some people would say, no more perfect 195 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,800 S1: marriage as. And you don't mean it this way, but 196 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,360 S1: it's a green light to be rather sloppy spiritually. And 197 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,000 S1: I know you don't mean that, but it seems like 198 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,520 S1: we fall off that high ridge in two ways. Either 199 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,680 S1: we pursue perfection or we say, ah, to heck with it. 200 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,120 S1: Can't do it anyway. How do we recover from both 201 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,360 S1: of those perilous falls? More with Jill Savage coming up. 202 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,559 S6: You've got questions. They've got answers. It's Ask the Experts 203 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,080 S6: week with Carl and crew. 204 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,400 S1: Jill Savage, our guest. We're going to have a key 205 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,760 S1: word here for you in just a moment, because this 206 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,079 S1: great woman of God has some phenomenal content. All right. 207 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,720 S1: I posed the question to you, Jill. It says simple. 208 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:14,040 S1: If the high ridge is clinging to God, finding our righteousness, 209 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,959 S1: our identity in him, being fueled by him falling to 210 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,160 S1: our peril can be perfection. Or it could be saying, ah, 211 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,319 S1: the heck with it. I'm not going to get this 212 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,679 S1: right anyway. We don't want to slip off either side. 213 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,480 S1: How do you call people up to that high ridge 214 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,880 S1: of dependence on God? 215 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,680 S7: What we need to do is stop pursuing perfection and 216 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:42,679 S7: start pursuing the perfecting process. You see, God wants to 217 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,240 S7: perfect us. And that word means mature us, grow us 218 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,320 S7: to become more like Jesus Christ. No, we will not 219 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,040 S7: hit perfection on this side of heaven, but we can 220 00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:00,480 S7: become more like Christ every day. And so when we're 221 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,080 S7: actually pursuing perfection and we fall short, we end up 222 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:09,760 S7: with anger and shame and criticism. If we're pursuing the 223 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:18,320 S7: perfecting process, then we respond to imperfection with humility, with 224 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,240 S7: courage to take off our mask and be honest with forgiveness, 225 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,520 S7: especially when we bump into somebody else's imperfection, with grace, 226 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:34,000 S7: with love. It depends on what you are pursuing as 227 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:39,120 S7: to how you respond. And so the perfecting process is 228 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,000 S7: when we're saying, Lord, I know that I've gotten it wrong. 229 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:47,680 S7: I know that I struggle with this. Please help me. 230 00:12:47,890 --> 00:12:51,130 S7: Please show me. Please show me how to respond to 231 00:12:51,170 --> 00:12:54,610 S7: this in your way. And when we bump into somebody 232 00:12:54,610 --> 00:13:00,970 S7: else's imperfect, our partner, our kids, a coworker, it's learning 233 00:13:00,970 --> 00:13:06,849 S7: how to stop reacting and start responding in God honoring ways. 234 00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:07,410 S3: Love it. 235 00:13:07,450 --> 00:13:09,730 S4: Jill Savage, our guest this morning. I'm glad you put 236 00:13:09,730 --> 00:13:12,210 S4: it this way, because it does seem like there's been 237 00:13:12,210 --> 00:13:14,610 S4: a pendulum swing. And I don't know if you've noticed. 238 00:13:14,809 --> 00:13:18,730 S4: I almost think there might be an age or generational 239 00:13:18,770 --> 00:13:23,530 S4: thing too. I think for my generation, the perfectionism was high. 240 00:13:23,570 --> 00:13:26,370 S4: But when I look at my daughter's generation and she's 241 00:13:26,370 --> 00:13:29,690 S4: a teenager now, it's sort of the it's okay to 242 00:13:29,730 --> 00:13:34,090 S4: be not okay, which is okay, but it's kind of 243 00:13:34,130 --> 00:13:36,929 S4: like this embrace the messiness in a way that can 244 00:13:36,929 --> 00:13:40,770 S4: start to feel a little unhealthy, where people over share 245 00:13:40,890 --> 00:13:44,290 S4: on social media, people cry on camera. 246 00:13:44,929 --> 00:13:45,770 S1: You're right. 247 00:13:46,050 --> 00:13:46,530 S3: Where. 248 00:13:46,690 --> 00:13:50,530 S4: It's almost like the the perfection is, is the messy, 249 00:13:50,570 --> 00:13:54,490 S4: where you get a certain amount of likes and attention 250 00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:57,530 S4: for being messed up, for lack of a better way 251 00:13:57,530 --> 00:13:59,490 S4: of putting it. Do you get where I'm going with this? 252 00:13:59,650 --> 00:14:04,210 S7: Yeah, I do. I do think there is a willingness 253 00:14:04,210 --> 00:14:09,450 S7: to embrace the more emotional side of our experience on 254 00:14:09,450 --> 00:14:12,370 S7: this earth than in this generation, than there was in 255 00:14:12,370 --> 00:14:15,770 S7: previous generations. Sure, previous generations would say, I don't have 256 00:14:15,770 --> 00:14:19,490 S7: any problems. We're fine. We don't talk about this to 257 00:14:19,530 --> 00:14:24,370 S7: anyone else. This stays in our home. That's unhealthy too. Yeah, right. 258 00:14:24,610 --> 00:14:28,490 S7: But I do think that obviously, too often we swing 259 00:14:28,650 --> 00:14:32,210 S7: too far the other way. And and healthy is in 260 00:14:32,210 --> 00:14:36,610 S7: the middle where we embrace our emotions. We are vulnerable 261 00:14:36,610 --> 00:14:41,130 S7: with our emotions, with the right people. And we recognize 262 00:14:41,130 --> 00:14:43,890 S7: that emotions are God given. But we also recognize they 263 00:14:43,890 --> 00:14:46,010 S7: don't always tell us the truth. Like we have to 264 00:14:46,090 --> 00:14:50,450 S7: be really careful about our emotions leading us in the 265 00:14:50,450 --> 00:14:54,090 S7: wrong direction, but they do. Usually, if we can use 266 00:14:54,090 --> 00:14:56,970 S7: our emotions in the right way. I like to say 267 00:14:56,970 --> 00:14:59,770 S7: that emotions are like the lights on the dashboard of 268 00:14:59,770 --> 00:15:02,250 S7: a car, and when the light comes on and it 269 00:15:02,250 --> 00:15:05,850 S7: says check engine and then get fuel. And so it 270 00:15:05,850 --> 00:15:09,530 S7: gives us a message. Well, when our emotions come online, 271 00:15:09,850 --> 00:15:13,010 S7: they all say the same thing. Talk to Jesus, talk 272 00:15:13,010 --> 00:15:16,170 S7: to Jesus, talk to Jesus. So our emotions are actually 273 00:15:16,210 --> 00:15:19,610 S7: designed to lead us to God to say, you know what, 274 00:15:20,050 --> 00:15:24,330 S7: I'm feeling this. What's going on inside of me? We 275 00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:27,570 S7: see this in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus was 276 00:15:27,570 --> 00:15:30,730 S7: facing the cross. And so we use our emotions to 277 00:15:30,770 --> 00:15:33,850 S7: go to the father to figure out what our needs are. 278 00:15:34,010 --> 00:15:37,570 S7: And then we ask for those needs to be met. 279 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:42,370 S1: Coming up here, Jill Savage, we have got a massive 280 00:15:42,570 --> 00:15:46,580 S1: problem in the Western world today. and I don't know 281 00:15:46,580 --> 00:15:50,100 S1: how it started, but we've got a lot of wayward 282 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:54,940 S1: kids that are gone, raised in church, raised in imperfect. 283 00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:58,500 S1: How do you like that, Joe? Little imperfect. Imperfect, but 284 00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:03,140 S1: great homes. And they've walked away from church and they've 285 00:16:03,140 --> 00:16:06,060 S1: walked away from God. Not that they were ever really 286 00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:09,100 S1: in Christ Jesus, because you can't walk away from that. 287 00:16:09,620 --> 00:16:14,740 S1: And hearts are breaking and phones aren't ringing, and it's 288 00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:19,780 S1: painful and it's an epidemic and it's touched you or 289 00:16:19,820 --> 00:16:22,860 S1: someone close to you. We're going to tackle that coming 290 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:24,660 S1: up with our expert, Jill Savage. 291 00:16:25,380 --> 00:16:28,980 S6: When you don't know who's better to ask than an expert. 292 00:16:29,180 --> 00:16:30,660 S6: You're listening to Carl and. 293 00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:34,660 S1: Jill Savage is our guest right now. Ask the experts 294 00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:37,260 S1: with Carl and crew all week long. Jill, I want 295 00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:40,580 S1: to jump right into it. Oh, this is heartbreaking, sister. 296 00:16:40,580 --> 00:16:45,380 S1: We have got a big, big EG Balagan is what 297 00:16:45,380 --> 00:16:48,380 S1: they call it in Israel, a big mess. We got 298 00:16:48,380 --> 00:16:50,700 S1: a lot of parents listening right now and I would 299 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:54,980 S1: estimate by the thousands. No joking because the audience is 300 00:16:54,980 --> 00:16:57,940 S1: big right now and we've got thousands upon thousands of 301 00:16:57,940 --> 00:17:01,100 S1: parents listening right now who have wayward kids. I want 302 00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:03,740 S1: to be clear. Some have left the church, but they've 303 00:17:03,740 --> 00:17:06,860 S1: never left Christ because they were never in Christ. They 304 00:17:06,859 --> 00:17:10,020 S1: were in church. So there's a there's a spiritual condition 305 00:17:10,020 --> 00:17:12,980 S1: for a lot of them. But not only have they left, 306 00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:16,020 S1: a lot of them have have a no contact policy 307 00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:21,220 S1: with their parents. And there's parents in our little sphere 308 00:17:21,220 --> 00:17:24,300 S1: of influence. We have 43 adult kids that were raised 309 00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:27,940 S1: in imperfect but good homes who have walked away from 310 00:17:27,940 --> 00:17:31,540 S1: the church in it's crushing parents hearts. What do you 311 00:17:31,540 --> 00:17:32,740 S1: have to say about this? 312 00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:35,980 S7: You know, on my No More Perfect podcast, one of 313 00:17:35,980 --> 00:17:40,220 S7: my top five episodes is an episode titled When Your 314 00:17:40,220 --> 00:17:44,350 S7: Adult Child Shuts You Out And right there. I mean, 315 00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:49,150 S7: that's one of my top five episodes. This is a 316 00:17:49,150 --> 00:17:53,230 S7: huge issue. We are seeing it in all in all 317 00:17:53,230 --> 00:17:58,429 S7: walks of life, and it is a heartbreaker. And unfortunately, 318 00:17:58,430 --> 00:18:01,950 S7: it's one of those places where things have swung too 319 00:18:01,950 --> 00:18:05,869 S7: far the other direction. Right. Because a lot of times 320 00:18:05,869 --> 00:18:08,670 S7: what needs to happen is conversations need to happen. But 321 00:18:08,670 --> 00:18:12,070 S7: the problem is sometimes kids have tried to have those 322 00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:16,669 S7: conversations and it's been difficult for them. And maybe the 323 00:18:16,670 --> 00:18:20,310 S7: parents haven't responded well or the parents have responded defensively. 324 00:18:20,790 --> 00:18:24,030 S7: And this is something that oftentimes we don't have the 325 00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:29,470 S7: skills to actually handle well. And one of the things 326 00:18:29,470 --> 00:18:34,149 S7: that breaks my heart is when a parent responds defensively. 327 00:18:34,190 --> 00:18:39,790 S7: Sometimes they will almost leave the child no other option 328 00:18:39,790 --> 00:18:43,230 S7: but to say, we obviously can't talk about this. So 329 00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:45,989 S7: we have to learn to be good listeners. We have 330 00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:49,710 S7: to learn how to empathize and validate, even if we disagree. 331 00:18:50,109 --> 00:18:53,470 S7: Even if we don't see it that way. Because that 332 00:18:53,470 --> 00:18:57,270 S7: is what helps to keep the like a bridge between 333 00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:59,830 S7: you and a child that sees things in a very 334 00:18:59,830 --> 00:19:01,990 S7: different way. So first I want to come at it 335 00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:05,389 S7: from that direction. And if your child talks to you 336 00:19:05,390 --> 00:19:08,990 S7: about something that you feel very, um, you don't see 337 00:19:08,990 --> 00:19:11,629 S7: it in that direction, one of the best things that 338 00:19:11,630 --> 00:19:14,869 S7: you can do is respond with, tell me more about that. 339 00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:19,030 S7: Or what I hear you saying is this. Am I 340 00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:22,390 S7: hearing that right? Can you tell me more? And we 341 00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:25,510 S7: need to get curious rather than furious. 342 00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:26,190 S3: Yeah. 343 00:19:26,510 --> 00:19:29,510 S4: Jill Savage, our guest this morning. You know, I this 344 00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:33,230 S4: question came in from on Facebook as well. Add to 345 00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:36,550 S4: that the element of of sometimes there's grandchildren involved. And 346 00:19:36,550 --> 00:19:39,790 S4: so you have grandparents who not only are estranged from 347 00:19:39,790 --> 00:19:43,790 S4: their adult children now, they're not allowed to see or 348 00:19:43,910 --> 00:19:48,030 S4: influence their grandchildren, which is like double heartbreak for anybody 349 00:19:48,030 --> 00:19:52,869 S4: who's experiencing that. How can a parent slash grandparent continue 350 00:19:52,869 --> 00:19:56,550 S4: to stand in the gap when they have been had 351 00:19:56,550 --> 00:19:57,510 S4: an arm held out? 352 00:19:57,869 --> 00:20:03,310 S7: Prayer is not your last resort. It's your first. Like 353 00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:06,350 S7: we have to be on our knees whether we're in 354 00:20:06,350 --> 00:20:09,670 S7: relationship with our adult kids or whether we're not. Whether 355 00:20:09,670 --> 00:20:14,670 S7: they're keeping us at arm's length. Prayer is the work. 356 00:20:15,030 --> 00:20:18,110 S7: It is much more effective for God to work from 357 00:20:18,109 --> 00:20:21,030 S7: the inside out, rather than for us to push from 358 00:20:21,030 --> 00:20:26,510 S7: the outside in. And prayer is what initiates that inside work. 359 00:20:26,830 --> 00:20:31,630 S7: And so we have to be prayer warriors for our grandchildren, 360 00:20:31,630 --> 00:20:35,710 S7: for our children, and believe that God is at work 361 00:20:35,710 --> 00:20:39,750 S7: even if we don't see things changing. You know, I 362 00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:42,560 S7: was a prayer warrior for my husband for a full 363 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:47,400 S7: year before I ever saw any inkling that something was 364 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,760 S7: changing from the inside out. And oftentimes, you know, we'll 365 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,960 S7: pray for three days and be like, well, God's not working. 366 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:54,879 S1: Yeah. I'm done. 367 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,040 S7: And so we've got to be prayer warriors. Yeah. And 368 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,040 S7: and what I would also add is if you do 369 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,399 S7: have a relationship with your adult kids, one of the 370 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,200 S7: things I talk about in my Empty Nest full life book, 371 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,399 S7: one thing that stands out is I have a section 372 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,000 S7: where I talk about pray, don't say. And we have 373 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,320 S7: to learn because sometimes we're the one that's tearing down 374 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,240 S7: the bridge between us and our kids because we're giving 375 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:30,160 S7: advice that wasn't asked for. We're giving opinions that aren't welcome. 376 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,200 S7: We feel like we're leveraging our experience, but if it's 377 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,040 S7: not asked for, then what we need to do is 378 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,720 S7: pray about it, but not say it. And that preserves 379 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,440 S7: the bridge between us and our adult child. 380 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,920 S1: Jill Savage, our guest coming up here. Jill. Uh, this 381 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,840 S1: could sound self-serving because it's become a theme around here, 382 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,360 S1: but I do want you to respond to it. I 383 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,680 S1: have had more liberating conversations with parents that have been 384 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,640 S1: through the hardest conversation. And the conversation goes like this. 385 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,080 S1: Parent will say to me, man, my kid's not coming 386 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,200 S1: to church. And then the instant response is, and I'm 387 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,040 S1: praying that they get back to church. I am challenging 388 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,160 S1: every parent that I run into, and this is scores 389 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,840 S1: and scores just in my local context. Maybe the prayer 390 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,000 S1: is not come back to church but be found in 391 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:24,680 S1: Christ for the first time. And what I'm learning personally, collectively, 392 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:30,120 S1: very personally, very collectively in the church is that the 393 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,760 S1: issue for a lot of the kids that have left 394 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,520 S1: the church is that they were never in Christ. I 395 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,280 S1: want your take on that coming up. 396 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,200 S6: Get in the know with life's biggest questions. It's Ask 397 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,240 S6: the Experts week with Carl and crew. 398 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,000 S1: Ask the experts week and boy, has this been something else. 399 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:47,359 S3: Ali. 400 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,040 S4: Jill Savage, our guest today. If you want more, she's 401 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,000 S4: got the No More Perfect podcast and book series. Just 402 00:22:53,000 --> 00:23:00,600 S4: text perfect to 800 555 7898. Perfect to 800 555 7898. 403 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,040 S1: Jill, you've spoken a lot this hour about prayer, and 404 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,160 S1: I'm with you 100%. But sometimes our prayers are aimed 405 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,879 S1: the wrong direction. As I was just teeing up for you. 406 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,240 S1: We pray that our wayward kids and it's epidemic, whether 407 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,920 S1: they've frozen you out or not, they aren't showing up 408 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,840 S1: at church in the prayer can often be Oh God, 409 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,520 S1: get him in church. My contention my, I've got empirical 410 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,400 S1: evidence for this and anecdotal that we've got a lot 411 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,280 S1: of these kids. They were cultural Christians. At best. They 412 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,080 S1: aren't in Christ. We need to change our prayers. I 413 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,609 S1: this is our core conviction here. What do you feel 414 00:23:37,609 --> 00:23:40,090 S1: about that at the depth of your soul? 415 00:23:40,290 --> 00:23:46,290 S7: I 100% agree with you 100%. I think that oftentimes 416 00:23:46,290 --> 00:23:50,650 S7: we even have the priorities mixed up of, you know, well, 417 00:23:50,650 --> 00:23:53,530 S7: if they get back to church, then that's, you know, 418 00:23:53,570 --> 00:23:55,770 S7: that will be the answer. Well, they were in church 419 00:23:55,770 --> 00:23:59,570 S7: for 20 years and it wasn't the answer. Right. And 420 00:23:59,609 --> 00:24:02,730 S7: so what we want though is and that's not saying 421 00:24:02,730 --> 00:24:06,170 S7: that church isn't important. Church is important, but it is 422 00:24:06,170 --> 00:24:11,890 S7: an outpouring of a heart that is open to be 423 00:24:12,010 --> 00:24:15,970 S7: led by Christ. And so what we want is we 424 00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:20,010 S7: want surrender. That's what we want. We want them to 425 00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:25,330 S7: be surrendered to Jesus. That Jesus is not only their Savior, 426 00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:29,210 S7: but their Lord. To recognize that they don't have to 427 00:24:29,250 --> 00:24:32,170 S7: carry the weight of this world on their own, that 428 00:24:32,170 --> 00:24:36,490 S7: they're designed to do that in a relationship with Jesus Christ. 429 00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:41,330 S7: And if we're just harping for them to go to church, 430 00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:47,210 S7: we're not helping the situation. That's where having conversations like 431 00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:50,290 S7: one of the most difficult things for a parent to do, 432 00:24:50,290 --> 00:24:53,409 S7: and yet one of the most powerful, is to make 433 00:24:53,410 --> 00:24:57,250 S7: it safe for their adult child to talk about their 434 00:24:57,250 --> 00:25:02,450 S7: struggles with the church or with God. Uh, what your 435 00:25:02,450 --> 00:25:06,810 S7: struggles are. Wow. I can only imagine how hard that is. 436 00:25:06,810 --> 00:25:09,530 S7: That's empathy. And what we want to do is we 437 00:25:09,570 --> 00:25:12,050 S7: hear our kids struggles and we go into lecture mode, 438 00:25:12,770 --> 00:25:18,090 S7: and lecture mode is not going to help lead them 439 00:25:18,090 --> 00:25:22,810 S7: in a direction of safety, of talking about their questions, 440 00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:27,010 S7: their doubts, their hurts. And so when we can learn 441 00:25:27,010 --> 00:25:30,090 S7: to be good listeners, and if we will learn to 442 00:25:30,130 --> 00:25:34,170 S7: ask questions and allow them to even just verbalize some 443 00:25:34,170 --> 00:25:37,129 S7: of their thinking, and then we also know how to 444 00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:38,010 S7: pray for them. 445 00:25:38,410 --> 00:25:42,050 S4: Jill Savidge, our guest expert talking about marriage and parenting 446 00:25:42,050 --> 00:25:44,730 S4: coming up. I actually want to pull from something we 447 00:25:44,730 --> 00:25:48,930 S4: heard earlier this week, a theme that came up repeatedly 448 00:25:48,930 --> 00:25:53,210 S4: as we talked to Robert Lewis about biblical manhood. We 449 00:25:53,250 --> 00:25:57,050 S4: had lots and lots of input from women, from wives 450 00:25:57,050 --> 00:26:01,169 S4: who really, really wanted to help. And I'm going to 451 00:26:01,210 --> 00:26:05,130 S4: use that in air quotes help their husbands. What was. 452 00:26:05,170 --> 00:26:06,290 S3: Robert Lewis's. 453 00:26:06,290 --> 00:26:07,170 S4: Message? And I'm. 454 00:26:07,170 --> 00:26:08,490 S3: Wondering the way. 455 00:26:08,490 --> 00:26:08,730 S1: You're. 456 00:26:08,730 --> 00:26:09,330 S3: Doing it. 457 00:26:09,730 --> 00:26:12,369 S4: I want Jill's take on it coming up. 458 00:26:13,650 --> 00:26:16,810 S6: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl 459 00:26:16,810 --> 00:26:19,129 S6: and crew on Facebook and Instagram. 460 00:26:19,369 --> 00:26:21,890 S4: Ask the expert week here on Carl and crew. Jill 461 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:23,810 S4: Savidge with us this morning. If you want more on 462 00:26:23,810 --> 00:26:30,490 S4: her resources, just text perfect to (800) 555-7898. Earlier this week, 463 00:26:30,490 --> 00:26:33,450 S4: we had Doctor Robert Lewis, who spent an hour talking 464 00:26:33,450 --> 00:26:37,420 S4: about biblical manhood, chivalry. We had lots of questions come 465 00:26:37,420 --> 00:26:39,740 S4: in from women. I would say about half of our 466 00:26:39,740 --> 00:26:42,500 S4: questions that hour were from women. How do I help 467 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:45,379 S4: my husband who is struggling with passivity? How do I 468 00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:48,860 S4: help my husband who is not discipling our sons? And 469 00:26:48,859 --> 00:26:52,020 S4: the theme that kept coming back with Doctor Robert Lewis 470 00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:56,459 S4: is you can't. You can't. Carl, anything you want to add. 471 00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:57,300 S3: Before I ask. 472 00:26:57,300 --> 00:26:57,659 S4: Jill to. 473 00:26:57,660 --> 00:26:58,100 S3: Weigh in? 474 00:26:58,140 --> 00:27:00,180 S1: I mean, it's it's a hard one to hear, and 475 00:27:00,180 --> 00:27:02,100 S1: it was even hard for me to hear live on air, 476 00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:05,780 S1: even though I've worked with Robert for many years because 477 00:27:05,780 --> 00:27:08,500 S1: it flies in the face of our culture today. But 478 00:27:08,540 --> 00:27:14,379 S1: his bottom line, Jill, is, ladies, don't be your husband's coach. 479 00:27:14,580 --> 00:27:17,420 S1: God's got to be that coach. You can't get him 480 00:27:17,420 --> 00:27:19,780 S1: to do what you want him to do. You're better 481 00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:20,980 S1: off praying for him. 482 00:27:20,980 --> 00:27:22,179 S3: So he's getting. 483 00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:24,460 S4: Him to a community of men. He was big on that. 484 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:26,820 S1: You've got to get him. Yeah. Help pray him into 485 00:27:26,820 --> 00:27:29,940 S1: a community of men. But you can't even take that 486 00:27:29,940 --> 00:27:32,340 S1: horse to a group of men that's not on you. 487 00:27:32,380 --> 00:27:33,619 S1: What do you say, Jill? 488 00:27:33,660 --> 00:27:36,540 S7: I agree with that. But what I'd like to look 489 00:27:36,540 --> 00:27:39,619 S7: at is a slightly different angle of that. And that 490 00:27:39,619 --> 00:27:47,260 S7: is oftentimes or sometimes when that dynamic happens, it can 491 00:27:47,260 --> 00:27:52,939 S7: also happen when he does try to lead in his 492 00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:56,939 S7: own way and she says, no, not that way. It 493 00:27:56,940 --> 00:27:58,020 S7: needs to be this way. 494 00:27:58,900 --> 00:27:59,660 S3: Oh, you're. 495 00:28:00,020 --> 00:28:04,300 S1: So you're doubling down on Robert. You're doing. Yeah that's true. 496 00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:07,619 S7: I agree with Robert. I really do that. You have 497 00:28:07,619 --> 00:28:10,740 S7: to pray him into that men's group and those kind 498 00:28:10,780 --> 00:28:14,659 S7: of things. But what often happens, and we see this 499 00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:17,140 S7: in the couples that we work with in our marriage 500 00:28:17,140 --> 00:28:21,140 S7: intensives and our coaching. And honestly, in my own life, 501 00:28:21,340 --> 00:28:23,540 S7: you know, Mark and I talk about the fact that 502 00:28:23,940 --> 00:28:28,140 S7: people think of broken trust as being big things, like infidelity. 503 00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:31,220 S7: But broken trust happens when you don't let your partner 504 00:28:31,260 --> 00:28:33,510 S7: be who they are, and you demand that they be 505 00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:37,630 S7: someone other than who they are. And broken trust happens 506 00:28:37,630 --> 00:28:40,630 S7: when you try to parent your husband. And that happened 507 00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:45,870 S7: in our relationship. I mean, Mark would do some leadership 508 00:28:46,030 --> 00:28:49,430 S7: of our family spiritually, but I had in my mind 509 00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:52,910 S7: it looked like devotion sitting in the living room. Well, 510 00:28:52,910 --> 00:28:55,710 S7: that's not true to who he is. He's a sit 511 00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:58,030 S7: on the edge of the bed guy and talk to 512 00:28:58,030 --> 00:29:02,190 S7: the kids as they have questions. And when I was saying, hey, 513 00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:04,750 S7: it needs to look like this over here, I was 514 00:29:04,750 --> 00:29:09,469 S7: completely missing when it looked like this, sitting on the 515 00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:13,190 S7: edge of the bed and shepherding their hearts. So I 516 00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:16,790 S7: would say, we've got to stop this assumption that it 517 00:29:16,790 --> 00:29:19,510 S7: has to look a certain way, and we have to 518 00:29:19,550 --> 00:29:22,750 S7: allow it to happen, that in a way that's true 519 00:29:22,910 --> 00:29:28,270 S7: to your partner's temperament, to their personality, to the way 520 00:29:28,270 --> 00:29:33,190 S7: in which they interact with people. It may look very different. 521 00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:36,270 S7: And so can you embrace that and can you celebrate 522 00:29:36,270 --> 00:29:38,030 S7: that instead of criticize that? 523 00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:38,430 S3: Yeah. 524 00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:40,470 S1: And the reason that's so important, and I'm going to 525 00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:43,790 S1: speak here as a man, a man's attempt to do 526 00:29:43,790 --> 00:29:48,390 S1: what God's called him to do that is throttled, because 527 00:29:48,390 --> 00:29:51,150 S1: that's what it feels like when it's offered up, that 528 00:29:51,150 --> 00:29:52,710 S1: we could do it a little bit better, a little 529 00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:55,550 S1: bit different. It just sucks the life out of you, 530 00:29:55,870 --> 00:29:58,790 S1: just sucks the life out of you. It just makes 531 00:29:58,790 --> 00:30:01,190 S1: you feel like, well, what in the heck then? 532 00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:04,270 S7: Yep, throw up your hands and say, I can't make 533 00:30:04,270 --> 00:30:07,790 S7: you happy. Anyway, I'm just going to go passive because 534 00:30:07,790 --> 00:30:12,150 S7: I can't win. Yeah, and we see that dynamic playing 535 00:30:12,150 --> 00:30:15,030 S7: out again. We saw it in our own marriage and 536 00:30:15,030 --> 00:30:18,950 S7: that doesn't mean I didn't cause Mark's passivity. I fed 537 00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:19,550 S7: into it. 538 00:30:19,550 --> 00:30:20,710 S1: That's so bold. 539 00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:24,710 S7: So I fed into it. And really, the enemy used 540 00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:29,110 S7: my critical spirit then to build that hopelessness in him. 541 00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:32,390 S7: And so we see this a lot and it is 542 00:30:32,390 --> 00:30:34,910 S7: a place. And sometimes it's not even men. I mean, 543 00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:37,350 S7: not even women doing it to men. Sometimes men do 544 00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:40,350 S7: it to women. Their wife does so many things, but 545 00:30:40,350 --> 00:30:44,110 S7: she doesn't do these five things. And so, I mean, 546 00:30:44,150 --> 00:30:47,390 S7: we can do that to each other on both sides. 547 00:30:47,390 --> 00:30:51,270 S7: We have to start celebrating who our partner is instead 548 00:30:51,270 --> 00:30:55,510 S7: of tearing down who they aren't, because we have this 549 00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:59,590 S7: preconceived notion in our mind of what they should be doing. 550 00:31:00,070 --> 00:31:02,830 S4: Jill Savage, our guest this morning. You got to where 551 00:31:02,830 --> 00:31:06,310 S4: I was going. What are some things that men think 552 00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:09,030 S4: that they are doing, that they want to help their 553 00:31:09,030 --> 00:31:11,830 S4: wives that actually have the opposite effect? 554 00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:14,950 S3: I want to be fair here. 555 00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:21,350 S7: Um, you know, sometimes, um, I would say, uh, with 556 00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:25,430 S7: physical intimacy, they will be, you know, like, make grand 557 00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:29,070 S7: gestures of romance, but they forget that one of the 558 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,800 S7: most beautiful things they could do is help with the 559 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:37,160 S7: dishes and help with the kids. And so oftentimes, you know, 560 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:44,880 S7: they're they're missing the little opportunities of connection that ultimately 561 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,040 S7: help things out with that physical connection in marriage. So 562 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,520 S7: that would probably be the first one that immediately comes 563 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,360 S7: to my mind. 564 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,400 S1: Well, there's a lot more where that came from. You 565 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:03,280 S1: just text the word perfect to 805 five, five, 78, 98, 566 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,000 S1: and you will get linked up with Jill Savage and 567 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,480 S1: her hubs, and they're doing a great work, man. 568 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,360 S4: You're going to get the her website. But also I 569 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,880 S4: linked in there that specific podcast episode she mentioned on 570 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,880 S4: estrangement with adult children. I know we're going to get 571 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,640 S4: a lot of requests for that one, so that one's 572 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:24,360 S4: in the keyword as well. Just text perfect to (800) 555-7898. 573 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,040 S4: Everything you need. Just text perfect to 800 555 7898.