S1: This baby must have a name because dough is not
S1: a name and a dumpster is not a grave, and
S1: a diaper is not burial clothing. And it was like
S1: as soon as I said it, I knew it was
S1: God flipping the economy of the world's picture of this.
S1: And he gave me his view and his picture. And
S1: then I knew the assignment was mine.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Well,
S2: Linda's life was forever changed when she saw a news
S2: report about an abandoned infant. That story broke her heart
S2: and helped her make a life changing decision that you'll
S2: hear about today.
S3: Her name is Linda Zanaco, and she tells her story
S3: in the book titled He Knows Your Name. How One
S3: Abandoned Baby Inspired Me to Say Yes to God. You
S3: can find out more about it at Building relationships.us. Gary.
S3: This is Father's Day weekend, and before we talk with Linda,
S3: I wanted to hear your heart for dads who might
S3: be listening today. Can you give a little encouragement to
S3: dear old dad right now?
S4: Well, you know, Chris, first of all, I'd like to
S4: say thank you to dads. We hear so much today
S4: about poor dads or absentee dads and and all of that.
S4: But listen, there are thousands of dads that are giving
S4: their best, you know, to their wife and to their children.
S4: And so I think on this day, we need to
S4: honor fathers. And I just want to thank all the
S4: guys that are being faithful to their wives and loving
S4: their children. Uh, I mean, you know, listen, that's that's
S4: our first responsibility. I think if you're a father and
S4: you report to God for duty, he says, oh, let's see,
S4: looks like you're married and you have children. That's your
S4: first responsibility of ministry. And if you're doing that, well,
S4: probably the rest of your life will turn out well also. Hmm.
S3: Thanks for that encouragement from one dad to another, Gary.
S3: And I want you now to hear from our guests today,
S3: but I want to get you to respond to this observation.
S3: I think people who make a difference in the world,
S3: some of them are dads, some are moms. People who
S3: make a difference in the world are those who see
S3: a problem. And instead of thinking, well, I can't do
S3: anything about that, they look at what they can do
S3: and they just step up and do it. I see
S3: you as one of those people. Have you seen that
S3: same thing through the years?
S4: Well, let me say, first of all, I've encouraged Chris
S4: that you would say that about me. But I do think,
S4: you know, there's a there's some of that in me.
S4: You see, something needs to be done. Do it. You know,
S4: it's like, uh, my grandson, uh, who's grown now, he's 20.
S4: In fact, he just had a birthday. He's 23 now.
S4: But he says of his sister, he said, you know,
S4: the thing about David Grace, she sees what needs to
S4: be done, and she does it. Yeah. And that's a
S4: great trait, you know. And you're right, the interview we're
S4: going to do today is with a lady who has
S4: done just that. Uh, so I'm excited about our program today.
S4: I think our listeners are going to be encouraged, and
S4: I think many of them, hopefully, are going to be
S4: more open to what God may want them to step
S4: into as they encounter life as it folds out for them.
S3: As you listen to Linda's story, I want you to
S3: listen to it through the prism of the thought. I
S3: don't know if I can do anything about that here.
S3: Linda Zanaco story now she's founder of He Knows Your
S3: Name Ministries, which seeks to honor every child with a
S3: name in life and dignity and honor in death. She
S3: lives in Indianapolis, Indiana with her family are featured resources.
S3: The book He Knows Your Name, How One Abandoned Baby
S3: Inspired Me to Say Yes to God. You can find
S3: out more about it at Building relationships.us.
S4: Well, Linda, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1: Thank you. It really is an honor to be here
S1: with you.
S4: Do you agree with what Chris and I were talking about?
S4: That people who make a difference aren't held back because
S4: of the enormity of the problems you know that they face.
S1: Yes. I love that you started the show just talking
S1: about Father's Day. Uh, because, you know, there is such
S1: a need for fatherhood in our culture and men stepping
S1: up to be fathers to anyone who needs it. The
S1: orphan spirit, I think, is really present in our young
S1: people today. And I just saw on Instagram this morning
S1: where a Dallas school invited fathers to come and have
S1: lunch with kids who didn't have fathers that would come,
S1: and 600 men showed up.
S5: Wow.
S1: And I thought, yes, yes, it's the invitation, right? That
S1: we we want to see people connect with. And that
S1: is like seeing a problem hearing, hearing something. I feel
S1: like you just said, see it. Do it, I say
S1: to in addition to that, once I hear it, I
S1: feel responsible to do something like, I don't think Esther
S1: felt that she could escape her generation's need because she
S1: had an opportunity to do something. And I really think
S1: we all have an opportunity to do something, not everything.
S1: And when I saw the breaking news story on the news,
S1: it what overwhelmed me was I needed to do something
S1: that I felt the conviction deep in my soul that
S1: this was. Really an injustice. And I was like, I
S1: can make a phone call, you know? So I think
S1: if we are honest, when we look at the problems
S1: we face, we could say, yeah, there is an enormity
S1: to them and I could never possibly tackle all of them.
S1: And so instead of going numb or retreating and throwing
S1: my hands up and saying, therefore, I'll do nothing. I
S1: think we can say, what's the something I can do?
S1: And so I would want your listeners overall to be
S1: listening with an ear of invitation this morning. How is
S1: God inviting me into an assignment that maybe has my
S1: name on it, that only I can do something about
S1: in my little way? And I thought for me it
S1: was a little phone call. I didn't have the vision
S1: for all that the last 15 years has held. And
S1: so yeah, I think that when we hear the news
S1: and we're overwhelmed, ask God if that's a conviction, you know,
S1: or is it just overwhelm? Because I think generally there's
S1: a way for us to say then the next thing,
S1: what is mine here? Is there something that has my
S1: name on it that I can do something about?
S4: I think you're right. And I think a lot of
S4: people have missed opportunities that God had for them because
S4: they just said, oh man, that's somebody else's problem, you know,
S4: not mine. Wow. So you started a ministry that's called
S4: He Knows Your Name. Tell us the story of that
S4: ministry and that news that you saw that really took
S4: you the first step on this journey.
S1: Right. So, you know, picture me sitting kind of like
S1: I am now at my computer and a breaking news
S1: story comes on in the middle of the day. And,
S1: you know, my life at the time, you know, I
S1: probably had just started the dishwasher, taking my girls to school.
S1: I had two girls living at home. Still, my son
S1: was back at Baylor University. My other daughter had just
S1: gotten married the year before, and my mom had just
S1: died after an 18 year battle with cancer. So I
S1: honestly was not looking for anything to do. And I was.
S1: The last thing I was going to do was start
S1: a ministry that just wasn't even in my wheelhouse of thinking.
S1: And so when I saw this picture come on my screen,
S1: as we all do, we're all in front of screens.
S1: We see the pictures and the caution tape is across
S1: a parking lot and people are milling around and there's
S1: a ladder going inside a dumpster, and I see the
S1: corner climbing in and the sirens are going, you know,
S1: it's very compelling. How could I not watch this? And
S1: I thought, what's happening here? You know, and all of
S1: a sudden the news voice comes over it. Breaking story
S1: baby Doe found in a dumpster wearing only a diaper.
S1: I was so frozen. What? What happens to a baby?
S1: And I felt the Lord lean in and say, get
S1: that answer. And so I called the coroner's office, which,
S1: you know, you have to know. I don't know the coroner.
S1: I've never talked to a corner, and I don't even
S1: have their phone number right in my contacts. The woman
S1: on the phone was gracious, but she said, um, we
S1: don't really have a plan. You know, the baby will
S1: be put in a mass grave if the criminal investigation
S1: doesn't turn up DNA samples, and we find the mom
S1: and the dad, the criminal investigation will just kind of
S1: end and fizzle away. And I was like, what do
S1: you mean? A mass grave? This is the 21st century
S1: in the most resource country in the world. We have
S1: those still. And she started saying, yeah, it's like a
S1: pauper's grave. And I was like, I don't get like.
S1: So the the next injustice was unraveling very quickly, you know?
S1: And I was like, hold on a minute. I just
S1: buried my mom six months ago, and we chose the
S1: most beautiful pink suit for her, her favorite jewelry. My
S1: father and I designed a headstone for her. We chose
S1: the scripture, the songs, the beautiful place where she would
S1: be laid to rest. She is a child of God
S1: and so is this baby. And this baby must have
S1: a name because doe is not a name and a
S1: dumpster is not a grave, and a diaper is not
S1: burial clothing. And it was like as soon as I
S1: said it, I knew it was God flipping the economy
S1: of the world's picture of this. And he gave me
S1: his view and his picture. And then I knew the
S1: assignment was mine. And I said, I don't know how
S1: many people have called. And she said, you're the only
S1: one that's called. And I felt goosebumps go all over
S1: my body. And I thought, this is heaven opening over
S1: me like, this is for me. And I didn't have
S1: language for assignments at the time or like really much
S1: of calling other than like, I'm a follower of Jesus,
S1: which of course I am banner over me. But I
S1: kind of thought this was an episodic situation. I mean,
S1: I'm like, I've never heard of anything like this before.
S1: And I said, I really want to do something for
S1: this baby. Please put my name on the case, I
S1: mean it, and how can I track this story? And
S1: she's like, well, we'll call you or you can just
S1: call and track it. And so I did. I called
S1: the coroner's office every Friday morning for 13 months. Well,
S1: a lot happened in the meantime, but I'll wrap up
S1: this one picture at the end. They said to me,
S1: we have found the mother. And all throughout those 13 months,
S1: the media would revisit that story and they would demonize
S1: the mom. Everyone just suspected that was the mom that
S1: threw the baby away. And abandonment is criminal. And so
S1: it was kind of like, you know, yeah, give her
S1: the worst. They said, no, it wasn't the mom. A
S1: funeral home director illegally disposed of the baby. And now
S1: there will be a criminal investigation against him. But we
S1: no longer need the baby as evidence. So then they
S1: asked me if I wanted to meet the mother.
S4: I can guess your response, but tell us about it.
S1: Yes, I met her. I pulled in to the coroner's office,
S1: which I'd never done before. And, um, you know, it's
S1: a tiny little building. It's right across the street from
S1: Lucas Oil Stadium, which is gigantic and new. And the
S1: old coroner's offices in this old brick building that looks
S1: like it's going to fall apart at any breath coming by,
S1: you know. And in walks this mom who's just crazed,
S1: and she she's like, who are you? Are you the police?
S1: Why do you want to talk to me? And I
S1: was like, no, I, I've just been I've loved your
S1: baby for 13 months, and I've just had this passion
S1: to give you and your baby a funeral. And she's like, well,
S1: I can't afford that. And I just explained to her
S1: that I was wanting to, you know, invite my community
S1: and her family to come and give her baby a
S1: celebration of life. And so that's what we did. And
S1: my community came together. Hers came, her family came, and
S1: we had a beautiful time of celebration around the grave.
S1: That is the really. The legacy on Nicholas's life is
S1: he knows your name in history. But in the process
S1: of that 13 months, the graciousness of God was that
S1: as I was calling the coroner's office, I was meeting
S1: people and talking to people, and I was building relationship.
S1: And as God would have it, we know God how
S1: important relationships are to God. And my conversations every Friday
S1: morning got longer and longer with the people there. And
S1: one time when I called, you know, I spoke with
S1: the receptionist and she had told me that she was
S1: battling breast cancer. And so I prayed for her. And then,
S1: you know, another time someone else answered the phone and
S1: I prayed for them and talked to them. And another
S1: morning I called and they said, we were just going
S1: to call you. And I said, you never call me.
S1: What were you going to call me about? And they said,
S1: we have another baby. And I was like, wait a second,
S1: you know? And I said, I got to call you back.
S1: And they said, well, wait, we just wondered if since
S1: your organization will take care of this baby, would your
S1: organization take care of that baby? And I said, um,
S1: that's what I need to pray about. And I got
S1: off the phone and wept in my car in a
S1: parking lot. And I just was so baffled. And I
S1: was like, Lord, what is this? You know, is this
S1: the baby I'm supposed to take care of? But then
S1: the other baby is going to be taken like, I
S1: don't know. And he just said, no, this isn't you
S1: are this is an organization. And right now it's just you,
S1: but it's you and me and it's he knows your name.
S1: And so from then on, I accepted everything that came
S1: my way as the Lord laid a blueprint for my
S1: ministry out for that whole first year that everything I
S1: did from buying headstones for families of loss. Um, everything
S1: was coming out of my relationship at the coroner's office
S1: because I was learning about more and more needs, and
S1: I just had no idea that I was going to school.
S1: On what grief in families look like from all the
S1: way from infant loss to child loss. And I was
S1: being I was being connected. And the the coroner has
S1: a heart for families and her love of the Lord.
S1: And I mean, we just clicked as sisters and we
S1: just really got a lot done through that first really
S1: big year of waiting for Baby Nicholas.
S4: So it sounds like God signed you up for a
S4: ministry that you, you had nothing about, knew nothing about
S4: when it began.
S1: I really didn't, uh, it was clear that we were
S1: on a journey. I didn't understand that, you know, establishing.
S1: He knows your name is a non-profit. And going just
S1: all these places that I've never would have been able
S1: to go before by myself if he would not have
S1: directed me and introduced me to cemetery offices and the
S1: coroner's office and funeral homes, and then families of lost
S1: that first year or two. You know, I was starting
S1: to get calls because the media was coming to my
S1: stories and telling stories about families and what was happening,
S1: and the media was starting to call me and say, hey,
S1: there was a bus accident. A five year old died.
S1: The mom doesn't know what to do, and I just
S1: thought maybe you we'd want her phone number and you
S1: could call her and help her. And I just started
S1: getting connected deeper and deeper into situations in the city.
S1: And really, that's what my book is so much about,
S1: is just how those first five years of the stories,
S1: I mean, the stories were just one was more different
S1: than the next. But at the core it was, how
S1: do I give honor and dignity and death and celebrate
S1: life for a baby or a child at the grave
S1: and invite strangers to come and be spiritual family and
S1: do church without walls at the grave and realize that
S1: the greatest miracle was performed there. And so there's nothing
S1: to fear at the grave, because it's an opportunity for
S1: legacy to be birthed, healing to be birthed, and closure
S1: for families. And these are all under-resourced families who couldn't
S1: afford anything and to give them the gift of joy
S1: and honor and see their child memorialized, um, and celebrated
S1: by so many people in the city, was more than
S1: they ever could have imagined. It's just God's upside down
S1: economy for healing.
S4: You know, we talked earlier as we started this program
S4: about what I think is a more natural response that
S4: people tend to have when they hear news like this
S4: to say, oh, that's sad, but not really even have
S4: a thought of stepping into that situation. Was there ever
S4: a time in this whole process through those, let's say,
S4: those first five years when you felt like, uh, you know,
S4: I can't I can't keep going? This is getting deeper.
S4: I mean, did you ever have a feeling like that?
S1: I really never did. Yeah. Um, I, I think, honestly,
S1: I was more aware that the grace was coming for
S1: every situation. And the preparation from the Lord in anointing
S1: to do this work was so beautiful that I. I
S1: run to it. And when I have an opportunity to
S1: do something and come and like come alongside someone and.
S1: Just bring them resources, introduce them to people that can
S1: help and realize that God has built a collaborative foundation
S1: under He Knows Your Name ministries that I could never
S1: have done on my best day. I'm not a business person,
S1: and yet the wisdom I have, I mean, honestly, someone
S1: who owns the more land in Indiana than anybody with
S1: a huge cemetery and funeral home business said, you know,
S1: we we are learning so much from you and your
S1: marketing skills. And I was like, what?
S5: I don't have marketing skills, you know, but it's just.
S1: Vision God's giving me. And I know it's so prophetic.
S1: It's just so prophetic because I, I get these pictures
S1: and I get vision and understanding for things, and then
S1: the confidence to walk in at a situation and be
S1: with a family full of generations of very sad people,
S1: under-resourced but sad because they've had compounding grief and, um,
S1: and come to them with options and give them a
S1: voice and say, tell me what you want. I'm not
S1: just going to do this my way or a way
S1: I think is appropriate to do. Let me join you
S1: in the celebration of your child or loved one. And, um,
S1: I leave feeling like I just was in the presence
S1: of the Lord and the Holy Spirit carried me. And
S1: that is never overwhelming, and that is never anything I
S1: want to run away from. I want to run to it.
S1: And even when I talk in my book about avoiding
S1: suffering and pain, I did not think in a million
S1: years that I would have been healed by being among
S1: those who are also suffering. And I think generally the
S1: Christian life, you know, people avoid suffering and they think
S1: that we can escape it and pay for it away and, uh,
S1: you know, plan a vacation and run here and run
S1: there and do this and do that. And I realized that, oh, actually,
S1: long suffering and suffering is the heart of Jesus. And
S1: when you're near it, you're near him. And I like
S1: to say to that like it's a sacred suffering and
S1: there's a holiness at the grave because miracles are performed there,
S1: and life comes from the grave in a resurrected power
S1: of legacy and love and relationship and honor and dignity
S1: that I don't think you can find anywhere else.
S4: Let's go back to the beginning of this, this whole story.
S4: It was 13 months, that process, when you were praying
S4: and waiting to work with the coroner in terms of
S4: coming to that first child. And you said during that
S4: time they ask you, made you aware that there was
S4: a family that had lost a child, as I understand it,
S4: had buried the child, but were asking it, can can
S4: anybody help us get a headstone for that child? Tell
S4: us about that, that experience.
S1: Yeah. So I went to the coroner's office because the
S1: coroner had said there's a mom that just is grieving
S1: the loss of her 13 year old son who drowned
S1: in a public park pool. She's pregnant, and she just
S1: keeps reaching out to us. And she said she's just inconsolable.
S1: And I don't know, you know, really what else to
S1: do is that she keeps saying she would like a headstone.
S1: And I was like, well, I'd never bought a headstone
S1: for anyone before. And I said, well, what cemetery is it?
S1: And so I called the cemetery and I was like,
S1: how do you go about doing this? And they told
S1: me and I was like, that's easy enough. Okay, yeah,
S1: I'll do that. But I want to tell the mom myself,
S1: I want to meet her because a lot of what
S1: I do, I don't end up meeting families as my
S1: ministry has gone on. But I show up at the
S1: coroner's office and I was talking to the coroner while
S1: I was there, and her assistant came in and said,
S1: the family is in the conference room, but they're not
S1: in the small conference room. They're in the big conference room.
S1: And Alfie said, oh, okay, well, tell them we'll be
S1: right up. And I was like, hold on. I thought
S1: I was just meeting a mom and why are we
S1: in a conference room? Why can't we just be here
S1: in your office? And she said, I don't know, it
S1: sounds like it's a family came and I was like, okay. Like,
S1: who's a part of her family? All right. And upstairs
S1: we go and the door opens. It's the largest conference
S1: table I've ever seen. And the room is packed with people,
S1: like at least four generations of people, and they're all
S1: just staring at me, and I don't look like anyone
S1: in the room, you know? And so I have my Bible,
S1: and they were like, they point to the head of
S1: the conference table, and they're like, here, you sit here
S1: and I sit down and I have my Bible, and
S1: I'm looking around and I'm like, I want to tell
S1: them that I'm going to just I'm going to do
S1: this headstone for them. This like to me, easy little thing.
S1: But to them you would have said I was buying
S1: everyone in the room a car. That's how big of
S1: a deal this was. And I said, well, before we
S1: get started, please tell me about Tim. And the open
S1: whaling began and the stories went through four generations, from
S1: the littlest child in the room to the grandma and
S1: the great grandma. And I was sitting there like, I
S1: did not bargain for this. I did not know that
S1: I was going to walk into this emotional room. And
S1: and then I said, yes, I will, I'd love to
S1: do this for him. And they they just couldn't they
S1: almost couldn't receive it. And the humility over this family
S1: was so incredible. And so that was the first headstone
S1: I purchased for, um, a child. But because he was
S1: 13 and he was at the public parks pool, he
S1: the park there, I mean, in like the, you know,
S1: it's nearly 100% African American. And black children die from
S1: drowning at an exponentially high rate compared to white kids.
S1: And there's no, like, no swim lessons really offered at
S1: the park and all this. And so a year after
S1: that child's, well, his anniversary anniversary, I had gotten together
S1: with Indy Parks and the mom, and we established a
S1: scholarship foundation, and we have had free swim lessons for
S1: one week for that whole community of kids every year
S1: for eight years. And, um, that is his legacy. And I,
S1: because I started seeing was people keep talking about Tim
S1: like he's an event, like his death was an event.
S1: And it's the last thing we have to talk about
S1: when we talk about Tim. And I was like, there's
S1: no redemption in that. Talking about the drowning over and
S1: over and over again. Let's talk about his swim lessons.
S1: Let's talk about his legacy. Let's talk about how we
S1: can change a whole community by having those kids get
S1: in the water and their moms come and everyone gets
S1: comfortable around a pool and learns how to swim and
S1: float and do the necessity like of understanding water safety.
S1: And it just what made perfect sense to me was
S1: something that had never been done before. And I, I
S1: learned so much through Tim's legacy, the opportunity for legacy,
S1: the importance of legacy. And now I look for legacy
S1: on every single child's life that I have had the
S1: opportunity to celebrate. I mean, just last week, I buried
S1: two more babies and I have buried now 52 babies
S1: in 15 years, um, that have been either unclaimed at
S1: funeral homes, the coroner's office or hospitals that are 20
S1: plus weeks gestation. I look at every one of them
S1: as an opportunity to see more come from the event.
S1: And change the event and talk about life.
S4: I was just sitting here thinking to myself, as you
S4: were telling that one experience of that whole everything that
S4: grew out of putting a headstone and then, you know,
S4: providing swimming lessons for a whole community. I was just thinking, wow,
S4: how how one thing leads to another thing and you
S4: just see the hand of God in the whole thing.
S4: You know, I just it's just it's wonderful.
S5: Yes.
S1: God was all over it, that's for sure.
S4: Well, you have come along the way to collaborate with
S4: other organizations. The Safe Haven Baby Box program is a
S4: significant partnership with you. Can you explain that, what that
S4: program does and how you work with them?
S1: Yes. I'll tell you first why I work with them. Um.
S1: It was incredible. There was a baby found here in Indianapolis, um,
S1: at Eagle Creek Park December 28th, 2014. And it came
S1: on the news the next morning that a hiker had
S1: found this baby. And of course, think of how freezing
S1: cold it is in Indiana on that kind of a night.
S1: And they showed the blue sweatshirt that the baby was
S1: wrapped in and, and the emblem on it, said Vincennes
S1: University Aviation Department. And this baby girl was left. And
S1: I thought, oh, I'm going to name her Amelia. And
S1: I called the coroner and I said, I want this baby,
S1: and I want to claim her. I already know her name.
S1: And they said, yes, we're probably going to discharge her
S1: within ten days. And they had reasons why they were
S1: doing that so quickly. The criminal investigation just wasn't going
S1: to be a deal. And so I claimed her named
S1: her Amelia. And as I prayed about her name, I
S1: looked it up and it means defender. And I asked God,
S1: you know, what is she going to defend? Because defenders
S1: capitalized in the Bible as a name of God's character. Like,
S1: what is her anointing going to be? Since I'm naming
S1: her after God and I felt my spirit rise quickly
S1: to the safe haven law, and I thought, well, how
S1: could that be? We have that in every state and
S1: and in here in Indiana. It came into law in
S1: the year 2000. I don't really get this, but okay.
S1: And then at her grave, we had a huge celebration
S1: of life for her. I mean, the city just poured
S1: into the chapel, standing room only. The procession was longer
S1: than I could even see with people, and I stood
S1: at the grave. I had just placed her in with
S1: the groundsman and everyone was throwing flowers on top, and
S1: I got a tap on my shoulder and I turned
S1: around and this woman said, I'm Monica Kelsey. And that
S1: is a problem and I have the solution. And she said,
S1: I am working with someone to write legislation for the
S1: Safe Haven Baby Box law. Will you come to the
S1: statehouse and give testimony and prove to them that abandonment
S1: is criminal and it's real, and she is not a statistic?
S1: And I said, sign me up. Get I can't get
S1: there fast enough. Right. And so Monica was in the
S1: very beginning stages of her ministry with Safe Haven Baby Box,
S1: collaborating with her, going to the statehouse, giving testimony, seeing
S1: the entire statehouse unanimously passing that law here was incredible.
S1: And what I did when I went to give testimony
S1: was I had taken copies, um, of her footprint and
S1: took 200 pages of foot footprint on pages, you know,
S1: and I handed them out when I got there. And
S1: then I brought her little mini temporary headstone, which weighed
S1: five plus pounds. And I passed it around and I
S1: said she actually weighed exactly what this piece of marble weighs.
S1: She was real. And when I picked up her casket
S1: to carry it in the chapel, I felt the weight
S1: of her in there. And I said, Lord, I feel her.
S1: And he said, of course you do. Honor weighs a lot.
S1: And I was like, oh my gosh, this honoring life
S1: and carrying her in and then putting her, celebrating her
S1: with the community. But when I shared that at the statehouse,
S1: I did not realize that Monica Kelsey took that picture
S1: of her footprint home and put it on her desk.
S1: And then months later, when it was time for her
S1: to start drafting a picture of the logo for the
S1: Safe Haven baby box, she called me and said, can
S1: I use her footprint as the logo? And I said, absolutely.
S1: And so Amelia's footprint is the logo of that box.
S1: And that box, you know, is sitting in 219 places
S1: in our country, um, 121 of them in Indiana. I mean,
S1: there are over ten states that now have passed this law,
S1: and we have had 43 babies safely surrendered under that law.
S1: And they've been retrieved from this box that can be
S1: opened from the outside of the fire station by a
S1: mom anonymously. The babies put in a climate controlled bassinet inside.
S1: She closes the box, walks away, and then the babies
S1: retrieved from the inside of the building and given immediate
S1: medical care. And these babies have received medical care in
S1: 60 to 90s. And then they're rushed right to the hospital,
S1: where someone who's in the foster care system and wants
S1: to adopt a baby will get a phone call and say,
S1: do you want a safe haven baby box baby? And
S1: these babies are all being adopted and it is the
S1: greatest option. And it's the greatest, I think, initiative we
S1: have in our state and now country to bring down
S1: infant mortality, which is too high, and it is a
S1: rescue option for moms in crisis and for babies. And
S1: it's saving lives and it's working well.
S4: And how many states now has that been adopted?
S5: I think it's the.
S1: Law's been passed in probably 12 states now, and I
S1: think five are working on it. So it's just I mean,
S1: within the next two years it's going to the law
S1: will be everywhere.
S4: So what you're saying is that a mother who has
S4: a child, that she realizes she is not in a
S4: position to raise that child, can take that child while
S4: it's still alive, and place it there in the hands
S4: of somebody who will pick that baby up and move
S4: the baby through the process of finding adoption. Adopted parents?
S4: Is that right?
S1: Yes. So the safe haven law is a hand off
S1: surrender law. Exactly what you said. The box is a
S1: box law, like allows the mom to anonymously, not face
S1: to face, place the baby in a box and walk away.
S1: And a lot of these babies are placed in the box,
S1: placenta and umbilical cord and all. And these brave moms
S1: who've chosen life, chosen to carry, have also chosen to
S1: probably give birth by themselves somewhere and wrap that baby
S1: in whatever they have, and give that baby a future
S1: and a life and a future family who's been praying
S1: for that child, you know, um, has been just had
S1: an answered prayer and gets to come to the E.R.
S1: and see the baby. I mean, it's just incredible. The
S1: stories are will just make you weep.
S5: Yeah, yeah.
S4: Yeah. If someone's listening out there and it's really touched
S4: by that whole concept, is there? What could a person
S4: do to see this manifested in their own state government?
S1: They need to contact SHB. Org and there is all
S1: the information there that they could ever want about how
S1: to move forward with helping getting legislation passed in their state,
S1: or if if the legislation has been passed and they
S1: want a box in their community to start the fundraising process,
S1: but that's their full resource right there.
S4: Okay. So it's s h b b.org.
S5: Mhm.
S4: Linda, through your work in ministry, which began with one
S4: phone call, you've been able to influence the lives of
S4: many and help bring change to your state and to others.
S4: What encouragement would you give to the person who feels
S4: overwhelmed by the needs in this area or some other area,
S4: and doesn't know where to start?
S1: Um, I would say pray. You know, you pray about
S1: what your assignment is and is there something that has
S1: your name on it, you know, is there something that
S1: only you based on who you are spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically,
S1: where you live, um, and what your social capital is
S1: and financial situation like? What God is it that only
S1: I can do and ask him? Because it was never
S1: my goal to franchise. He knows your name all over
S1: the country. Um, and what I love to hear is
S1: that people call me and say, well, I'm a nurse
S1: in Washington State and I take care of bereavement, and
S1: I have a vision to do x, y, z here.
S1: How can I do that? What do you what do
S1: you think my next step should be? And I give
S1: her encouragement. I give her a next step. And next
S1: thing you know, this woman is changing the world in
S1: Washington state, um, for bereavement and care in hospitals. And
S1: then it just keeps going and going and going. And
S1: so I love that she took her vocation as a
S1: nurse and turned it into influence and impact in her community.
S1: And that's that's what I love to see, born out
S1: of people's ambition for the holiness of this calling, because
S1: there are so many different ways to go, like giving
S1: honor and dignity to life. And it's as simple also as,
S1: I mean, this is my call to action in regard to,
S1: like I mentioned, unclaimed babies. There's also unclaimed adults at
S1: funeral homes in the coroner's office by the hundreds. And
S1: this is just something no one can get their head around.
S1: And I get it. But with cremation up 60% in
S1: the last five years, people are choosing cremation, like at
S1: a funeral home, and then they're not coming to pick up.
S1: And I want to say to people, please have the
S1: conversation around your dinner table like so, you know, after
S1: so and so's funeral. And where's grandma? Where's Uncle Joe?
S1: Like who went and picked up? Because after with all
S1: my work with the coroner's office and funeral homes, I
S1: have come to realize that there's also. I can claim
S1: all the babies. And I'm doing that, but they're like,
S1: we have a huge problem with adults here unclaimed. And
S1: our coroner's office here in Marion County is moving. And
S1: they said, we cannot take these 200 plus unclaimed remains
S1: with us. And so we worked for two years to
S1: come up with a solution. And I said, I will
S1: have a memorial service for them, and I will plan this,
S1: but only to model to you how it's done so
S1: that next year you have something in your budget that
S1: allows you to do the same thing. And that's what
S1: the we're doing. The Marion County Coroner's Office is now
S1: in year three of putting this in place. So the
S1: first year I laid to rest 173 unclaimed remains that
S1: were all adults. Yeah. And then the next June, 55
S1: more and then another 75. And it's like, we have
S1: got to realize that we are not honoring human life
S1: in so many ways. And the trickle down effect of
S1: it is people are just finding it inconvenient to go back. Like,
S1: I just buried a man, George, that was unclaimed in
S1: Hamilton County, and I think he had a family member.
S1: So somewhere else in the country, and they got a
S1: hold of him and he said, I didn't ever even
S1: know him. I can't leave my job and come and
S1: do this. And so he stayed unclaimed. And so I
S1: buried him in, in not, not even two years between
S1: funeral homes and the coroner's office, I've laid to rest
S1: and honored over 700 adults. So, like opening this up
S1: and exposing it has been gigantic in the funeral home
S1: industry and the coroner's industry. And the coroner here in
S1: Indianapolis is on the International and National Coroner's Association committee.
S1: And she is telling everyone about this, because we've got
S1: to deal with this as a country and say, we
S1: don't just leave people in hiding in a basement somewhere
S1: like that is just not acceptable. These are God's children.
S1: And if we are going to give, this is how
S1: I felt at the beginning. If I'm going to give
S1: my mother a beautiful funeral that I think she deserves,
S1: then I believe we need to give everyone. And as
S1: we talk about Memorial Day, and I love what a
S1: lot of funeral homes do for veterans, they honor them
S1: and make sure that they are taken care of in death.
S1: But it's like, what about everybody else? There's like hundreds
S1: and hundreds. It's just something I want to expose. And
S1: one of the things I'm so thankful for is the
S1: media exposure from like, Baby Amelia and Safe Haven Baby
S1: Box to this kind of situation. The media is at
S1: all my press conferences, and I'm able to give this
S1: call to action, and I'm using media as my education
S1: arm to raise awareness and educate on all these really big,
S1: these big like epidemic problems, social issues, and try to
S1: get them changed. But it happens one person at a time.
S1: Like please ask your family, do we have anyone who's
S1: been left behind? And when we make that call to action,
S1: we have had reunification happen at funeral homes where people
S1: are like, oh, I didn't know. And so they've come back.
S1: But I'm saying that's one or 2 or 3 out
S1: of a 200, you know.
S6: Yeah.
S4: Well, I'm sure many of our listeners are not aware
S4: of what you've just shared of of these adult bodies
S4: who are left unclaimed. Linda, could you tell us what
S4: happens at the funerals of these, these little ones that
S4: that you direct the funeral? Tell us how that works.
S4: What's it look like?
S1: Well, I love to write a funeral, and I really
S1: base it around the child's name. And if the mom
S1: has named the child, I love to look up the
S1: meaning of the name and cast a legacy and vision
S1: over the child in a blessing kind of way. And
S1: if the baby was not named, then I get to
S1: name the baby. And I do that in prayer. And
S1: I also just take a little bit of the information
S1: I do know about the child, and I'm able to
S1: just give a spiritual blessing over the child based on
S1: their name. I work with several organizations that provide repurposed
S1: wedding gowns made into baby burial gowns, and so I
S1: always select a beautiful gown for the child and sing
S1: a lullaby over the baby. I believe every baby needs
S1: a lullaby and inviting strangers to come. I always put
S1: an event on Facebook and invite the community to come.
S1: And people are people come and it's beautiful to see
S1: a gathering around an open grave. Um, and I, I
S1: love to, um, cast vision for heaven. Um, because I
S1: believe the truth from God's word, um, has promises in
S1: it that I can claim over the child's life. What
S1: I say is that the child will see the loving
S1: face of their father and will be given a mansion
S1: in the holy city, will receive nourishment from the mouth
S1: of God, and will sit in the lap of light,
S1: wrapped in a royal garment, and will eat from a
S1: banquet table, and will drink from a flowing well of
S1: living water, and be warmed by the hovering of the
S1: Holy Spirit, and will stand in the presence of their
S1: Savior forever and ever. And when I do that, I
S1: know in casting vision for heaven, I am sharing the
S1: gospel for everyone there. And it's an opportunity to. Of course,
S1: I don't know most of the people and I don't
S1: know where they stand with Jesus, but I just know
S1: that everyone who came came for a reason and they
S1: all need Jesus. I need Jesus every day. And so
S1: realizing that standing before an empty grave creates an opportunity
S1: to have everyone, like, feel their mortality and it's easy
S1: to confront that there. And we have beautiful moments at
S1: the grave, um, where I can share the gospel.
S4: Well, there have been so many lives touched by the small. Yes,
S4: that you said way back there early on with God. Uh,
S4: can you tell us one other story of someone that
S4: you were able to help?
S1: Well, one story I love is about a mama. Her
S1: name is Evodia, and she's from South Africa, and she
S1: lives in Ireland. And she found me on Instagram. She
S1: was given a diagnosis. She was pregnant with her fifth
S1: child and she didn't know what to do. I had
S1: never heard of the diagnosis before and she was on
S1: Instagram and saw one of my videos, and then she
S1: went to my website and checked me out and she
S1: she said I was just praying and saying, God, I
S1: need to talk to somebody who understands this diagnosis. Because
S1: she was being told to terminate and she was 25
S1: weeks pregnant and just couldn't wrap her mind around that.
S1: Her husband was back in South Africa on work, and
S1: she was very alone. And I caught her little message.
S1: You know, the Lord. Like, out of all my messages,
S1: you know, it was like that one just stood out
S1: and I said, please email me. And she did right away.
S1: And then we did a FaceTime and I was able
S1: to coach her through making a decision. She ended up
S1: going into labor. Um, but her baby was diagnosed with
S1: trisomy 18 and she didn't know what that was. And
S1: I've been able to take care of a lot of
S1: families here in the States with that diagnosis. And I
S1: just held her hand through that all the way across
S1: the pond, so to speak, you know, in Ireland. And
S1: when she went to her hospital and professional, you know,
S1: medical care team, um, they really weren't sure what to
S1: do for her either. And I was able to coach
S1: the bereavement team and different parts of people involved in
S1: her life at the hospital about what they could do
S1: for this family. And, um, she asked me to name
S1: her baby, and I named the her little girl at Gabriel.
S1: It was just the most beautiful connection. And I thought,
S1: you know, Instagram and all the things we can say
S1: all day long, like social media is blah, blah, blah, right? Negative, whatever.
S1: And yet it it has been a connection place for
S1: me across the globe many times for moms who are
S1: in other countries who, um, have a lot of questions
S1: and they're seeing what I'm doing, and it just raises
S1: their heart for, oh, I want that kind of honor
S1: for my baby. And I've been so thankful for that.
S4: Well, I hope our listeners will get the book. It's
S4: called He Knows Your Name. And as Linda just shared,
S4: the website is he knows your name and org, uh,
S4: I think Linda, no question about it. God has led
S4: you over these last 15 years into a what is
S4: a much needed ministry. And I think there are other
S4: great needs in our country that God wants his people
S4: to be stepping into. So I hope that those who
S4: have heard us today and those who read this book
S4: are going to become open to God in what he
S4: might have for them. So thanks for being with us
S4: again today.
S1: Thank you for having me. It's really been a joy.
S1: I appreciate your heart for everything you're doing.
S3: It's Linda Zanaco and as Gary mentioned, he knows your name.
S3: Dot org is the website. The book is he knows
S3: your name. How one abandoned baby inspired me to say
S3: yes to God. You can find out more about that
S3: at Building relationships.us. We have a link right there building
S3: relationships us.
S4: And next week we'll discover the power of meaningful meal
S4: times together.
S2: Ryan Rusch talks about revitalizing your family in one week.
S2: Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their
S2: work today. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a
S2: production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a
S2: ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.