S1: Every single day you brush shoulders with people experiencing trauma.
S1: A few of us know how to respond. Coming up
S1: on today's broadcast, we'll learn some lessons from the biblical
S1: character job. As we sit down with job, we'll find
S1: comfort in the ashes. The best part? You'll come away
S1: with tools to help support trauma survivors in your life.
S1: And maybe you are that survivor. As always, we'll update
S1: you on all the headlines from the Middle East and more.
S1: So welcome to the land and the book. Our host,
S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, Middle East expert and author. I'm John
S1: Gager and you know, Charlie, a lot of people are,
S1: you know, maybe not thinking about the fact that Jewish
S1: people in general have never heard the gospel. Some, yes,
S1: but many haven't. And every week we talk about Israel
S1: and the Jewish people, and it's important to remember that they,
S1: like everyone else, need to hear the good news, right?
S2: That's right. And that's why life in Messiah, this ministry
S2: that's been in existence for over 135 years, is devoted
S2: to sharing the gospel with Jewish people around the world.
S2: And now they're offering a gift to moody listeners. This
S2: free e-book, Reaching Jewish People for Messiah, highlights the need
S2: for the gospel among the Jewish people. It will equip
S2: you with practical ways to share the good News with them. Now,
S2: to receive this free e-book, visit Life in Messiah org
S2: and click on the Moody Radio logo. Sign up today
S2: to get your copy. That's life in Messiah.
S1: Well, let's swing our focus now toward current events. US
S1: and Iranian negotiators continue discussing Iran's nuclear program. But really,
S1: are they making any progress and what will happen should
S1: those discussions finally reach an impasse?
S2: The most recent round of talks were inconclusive, though all
S2: sides issued positive statements afterward. The US characterized the talks
S2: as constructive and President Trump said there was real progress. Now,
S2: talk of an interim deal with creative options for producing
S2: nuclear fuel and including joint ventures are apparently being floated.
S2: Senior European officials have warned the U.S. that Iran is
S2: stalling the negotiations to avoid having U.N. sanctions snap back
S2: into place before they're scheduled to expire. Under the original agreement,
S2: the West has the authority to reimpose broad U.N. Security
S2: Council sanctions on Iran in response to major violations of
S2: Iran's nuclear commitments. However, that option expires in October. Iran
S2: has already threatened to respond forcefully should the Europeans activate
S2: the snapback mechanism. The core area of disagreement still remains
S2: the issue of uranium enrichment. The U.S. has said it
S2: will not allow Iran to enrich uranium under a new agreement,
S2: while Iran insists it has a right to do so.
S2: As the negotiations continue, reports are circulating that suggest Israel
S2: is preparing for a strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. What's
S2: not clear is whether Israel will hold off to see
S2: how the negotiations progress, or if they're planning an attack,
S2: regardless of what happens in the negotiations. This is causing
S2: tension between President Trump and Israel. And Israel has denied
S2: it will strike Iran in a bid to derail the
S2: current nuclear talks. Iran said it would strike a devastating
S2: blow should Israel attack. Now, Israel views Iran's nuclear program
S2: as an existential threat. This is what people need to understand.
S2: In 1981, Israel attacked Iraq to stop Saddam Hussein from
S2: acquiring nuclear weapons, and in 2007, they attacked a nuclear
S2: facility being built in Syria to stop Bashar Assad from
S2: obtaining nuclear weapons. They'll do the same to Iran if
S2: it's necessary. Ambassador Huckabee reaffirmed President Trump's position that Iran
S2: will not be allowed to have nuclear weapons. With the
S2: end of UN sanctions looming on the horizon and In
S2: Israel preparing to defend itself. A time will come, very
S2: possibly this summer, when Iran will either agree to end
S2: its nuclear program voluntarily, or Israel could very well intervene
S2: to try to bring it to an end themselves.
S1: Story number two, the US has lifted sanctions on Syria,
S1: but questions remain over the long term stability of the country. Charlie,
S1: that leads me to ask in the first place, what
S1: in the world are we doing? It does appear unstable.
S1: What has changed the suddenly are here's a here's a
S1: great place to lift some sanctions.
S2: It is definitely unstable and it's a rather dangerous move
S2: on the US's part. In fact, I think there are
S2: three obstacles to stability that we are not facing up to.
S2: The first is Syria's lack of cohesion. Most people don't
S2: know it, but Syria is actually an artificial country. It
S2: was created following World War one. England and France carved
S2: up the Middle East into spheres of influence without really
S2: taking into account geographical, ethnic or religious boundaries. Syria was
S2: created from a patchwork of ethnic and religious groups. For decades,
S2: it was ruled by the Assads, who were part of
S2: the minority Alawites. Even though the majority of the people
S2: are Sunni Muslims, the country also has significant populations of Druze, Kurds, Christians, Shiites,
S2: Yazidis and Ismailis. The second obstacle, though, is the background
S2: of Syria's new president. Before donning a suit, Al-shara was
S2: part of Al Qaeda and then founded his own terror
S2: group that mirrored ISIS. He claims to have changed, but
S2: as one Druze leader in Syria said, he still keeps
S2: his beard, which shows he's afraid of all the fundamentalist
S2: religious groups. And there have already been multiple attacks by
S2: Islamist groups against the Christians, the Alawites and the Druze communities.
S2: The third obstacle is the constitution. Al-shara proposed for the country.
S2: It's based on the Quran rather than a civil constitution
S2: granting equal rights to the different sects and communities. And
S2: this gets back to the original problem. How do you
S2: govern a country that's really defined by strong ethnic and
S2: religious divisions, without having one group impose its beliefs on
S2: the others? At a Senate hearing, U.S. Secretary of State
S2: Rubio warned that Syria could be weeks or perhaps months
S2: away from civil war. The U.S. is hoping, I think,
S2: trying to engage Syria's new leaders and influence them in
S2: a way that will help promote peace in the region.
S2: But that's really a gamble. Israel and Turkey are also
S2: working with the new government to help stabilize the situation
S2: along their borders. But right now, I think the jury
S2: is out on whether or not this new government will succeed.
S1: From Moody Radio. This is the land and the book,
S1: our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted Old Testament scholar, Middle
S1: East authority. I'm John Geiger, and these are the current
S1: events we're looking at. Turkey might be trying to help
S1: stabilize Syria, but Turkish President Erdogan is facing his own
S1: set of challenges. How stable is Turkey, both economically and
S1: politically right now.
S2: Well, the leadership there is saying all the right things,
S2: but just below the surface, the country is facing a
S2: number of problems. Turkey's finance minister said the country's disinflation
S2: program is on track, and that year end inflation will
S2: be within the forecast range. Now that sounds good until
S2: you realize that the forecast for the year is 24% inflation,
S2: while the rate in March and April was hovering around 38%
S2: in a survey, nearly three quarters of Turkey's households don't
S2: expect the inflation rate to fall significantly in the next
S2: 12 months. In addition to all the ongoing economic crises,
S2: President Erdogan's political standing has also fallen because of the
S2: jailing of Istanbul's mayor, who is seen as his main
S2: political rival. Last week, still more political opponents were rounded
S2: up in Istanbul. The arrests are perceived to be politically motivated. Now,
S2: in addition to all that, many people distrust Erdogan because
S2: of his recent push for a new constitution. The current
S2: constitution limits the president to two terms in office. And
S2: people fear that he wants to change the Constitution to
S2: allow him to remain in power. He said he has
S2: no personal ambitions to seek re-election, but many, perhaps most,
S2: are skeptical. Now, if there's one piece of positive news
S2: for Turkey, it was the decision of the Kurdish militant
S2: group PKK to end the insurgent war against Turkey after
S2: 40 years. The Turkish government hailed the decision as a
S2: historic milestone for regional peace and stability. But it's uncertain
S2: if that one piece of good news is sufficient to
S2: balance out all the other economic and political concerns and
S2: crises that seem to be piling up there.
S1: What about tourism right now in Turkey? Up, down. Neutral.
S1: What would you say, Charlie?
S2: Actually, it's up and up rather substantially, mainly because of
S2: the inflation rate. Turkey's currency is so devalued right now
S2: that it's actually a pretty good buy.
S1: Okay. Well, artificial intelligence and quantum computing are at the
S1: forefront of technology, and several startup companies in Israel are
S1: working to provide leadership in both areas. What's the latest
S1: from Amazing Israel on these hot topics, Charlie?
S2: Well, in this case, I think Israel's reputation as a
S2: startup nation is continuing. Israeli quantum software startup Classic Technologies,
S2: and that's spelled Klassik, is focused on creating software to
S2: make quantum computing more workable and accessible. They've developed an
S2: operating platform that works across all major types of quantum hardware.
S2: Their goal is to become, as they would say, at
S2: the Microsoft of quantum computing by developing operating software to
S2: power quantum applications, just like Microsoft did with windows OS.
S2: Their software platform would help data scientists, computational scientists, and
S2: engineers then develop software without worrying about the quantum hardware underneath.
S2: In terms of artificial intelligence, two other Israeli startups, Bilott's
S2: and Fletcher, are developing AI driven solutions for industries like
S2: construction and business operations, making them more efficient, scalable and sustainable.
S2: And another AI startup blockade, founded by former cyber intelligence operatives,
S2: is working to provide end to end crypto security to
S2: keep users safe. Now, these are just some of the
S2: recent startups utilizing their technological expertise to help power the
S2: AI and quantum computing revolution, while also keeping the rest
S2: of us safe from those seeking to misuse those technologies.
S2: And that's the kind of innovation, John, that's coming out
S2: of amazing Israel that we've all come to expect.
S1: And that's a look at current events from the region. Well,
S1: every single day you and I brush shoulders with people
S1: experiencing trauma. Maybe you're one of those yourself. But so
S1: few of us know how to respond. Well, coming up
S1: on the land and the book, we're going to learn
S1: some lessons from the biblical character job. As we sit
S1: down with job, we'll find comfort in the ashes. This
S1: is a very practical conversation. You'll appreciate the insights and
S1: lessons from job. Next on the land and the book.
S1: One day, just one day. That's all it took to
S1: lose his children, his possessions, his health, his wealth. We're
S1: talking about the biblical character job, of course, despite his losses,
S1: despite the discouragement of his friends, despite the bitterness of
S1: his own wife, he determined to hang on to his faith.
S1: What made him tick? What was inside of job that
S1: steeled him from everything that was going on outside? Said
S1: another way. How did he find comfort in the ashes?
S1: This is the land and the book. I'm John Geiger.
S1: Today's conversation is for anyone in search of comfort in
S1: a troubling time. Maybe you've got a friend going through
S1: something rough before we meet job, though. Let's think about
S1: meeting our Jewish friends and neighbors, and maybe how you
S1: and I can more effectively share the love of Christ
S1: with them. So you and I know the gospel. Believe
S1: the gospel. We understand the gospel. How do we explain
S1: the gospel in a Jewish context when we're talking with
S1: our Jewish friends? Greg Savage, what's the answer?
S3: Well, John, I like to call this christianese. We all
S3: have our little language justification, sanctification, blood of the lamb,
S3: Son of God. We all use these verses, and people
S3: that aren't believers have no idea what we're talking about. Right.
S3: And I know for a fact, because I went to
S3: a church once with a friend and it was like,
S3: stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, shake hands.
S3: And there were these words that I had never heard before.
S1: This is you as a as a non-believer.
S3: As a non-believer. And I think the best way that
S3: you should talk to Jewish people are in terms that
S3: they understand Stand. Atonement. God. Messiah. Repentance. Redeemer. They'll understand that.
S3: But if you start saying, you know, justified by faith,
S3: they'll have no idea what that is.
S1: Yeah. So very basic and very simple and very straightforward.
S1: That's the conversation to have as you're explaining the gospel.
S1: That's Greg Savitt, who serves with Rock of Israel here
S1: on the land and the book doctor. Michele Kushner is
S1: an associate research fellow with the Kirby Centre for Public
S1: Theology and the director of discipleship for a Growing church
S1: in Las Vegas. She's an award winning novelist and devotional author.
S1: Michele lives in Southern Nevada with her retired marine husband,
S1: their two children, and one spoiled dog. Our conversation today
S1: is inspired by her book comfort in the ashes. And
S1: we're glad you're with us today, Michele.
S4: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy
S4: to be here.
S1: Well, I've often wondered if one of the reasons God
S1: allowed job to endure such extraordinary pain and loss so
S1: that none of us, none of us could ever complain
S1: that we've got it worse. Job kind of sets the
S1: bar almost impossibly high. What do you think, Michelle?
S4: Oh, job endures pretty much anything we could think of, right?
S4: Losing his family, losing his health, losing his community. Yeah.
S4: Job kind of takes it all and says, yeah, I'm
S4: going to walk through all of that. So it does
S4: kind of put our usual sufferings in a little bit
S4: of perspective.
S1: Yeah. Well, to that question I posed earlier, what was
S1: inside of job that steeled him from everything that was
S1: going on outside? What did he possess that many of
S1: us lack as we go through our own grief and pain?
S4: Oh, wow, that's a great question. So I think when
S4: we look at job, one of the first things we
S4: see is the love and the devotion that he had
S4: for God. It starts in the very beginning, and we
S4: see it go through the whole book that even when
S4: job doesn't understand what he's going through, even though he
S4: doesn't understand where God is. He knows who God is
S4: and he clings to that and that's why he keeps
S4: coming back. God, why is this happening? God, where are you?
S4: Because he knows that God that he loves and serves.
S1: Today on the land. And the book we're visiting with
S1: Doctor Michelle Keener, looking at ways you and I can
S1: bring comfort in the ashes. Her book by that same title.
S1: You know, when you worked on this book, spending so
S1: much time with job. What surprised you?
S4: I think what surprised me most was seeing how understanding
S4: trauma really helps us understand the book of job. I'd
S4: never really put the two together before. And then once
S4: I did kind of this background research on what trauma is,
S4: how we tend to react to trauma, what it's like
S4: to walk through those seasons. Then I started reading job again,
S4: and it all kind of started to click. I was like, oh,
S4: I get that's why it switches from prose to poetry. Oh,
S4: I understand why job is having real big feelings about
S4: this moment and seeing those pieces. It really helped me
S4: understand the book more. And honestly, if I'm being really transparent,
S4: it helped me appreciate the book in a way that
S4: I think I hadn't before.
S1: Michelle, I'm going to confess I've got a problem, and
S1: I think a bunch of our listeners have the same problem.
S1: You know, we read the book of Job. We love
S1: his testimony. We love his faithfulness, and yet we know
S1: we're just not in that league, you know. And so
S1: it's almost like, that's nice, but it's out there. It's
S1: unattainable for us. Speak to those of us who feel
S1: that way.
S4: Yeah. It's kind of holding ourselves to this standard of
S4: one of these biblical heroes, one of these biblical characters
S4: that goes through so much. And how can I do that? Lord,
S4: how would I ever look like that? And I think
S4: the Book of Job shows us that suffering can come unexpectedly. Expectedly.
S4: And so it's what we do before the suffering strikes, right?
S4: Building that relationship with God ahead of time, really learning
S4: who he is, and having it so settled in our
S4: heart that I. I know God's character. I know who
S4: Jesus is. I know what God cares about. I know
S4: what God does in the world, that when those unexpected
S4: moments hit, and when we find ourselves in suffering, we
S4: have that within us already. And that's our job task
S4: because suffering is not a competition. This is the suffering
S4: I'm walking through, and this is how I'm going to
S4: do it. Well.
S1: Yeah, I think that's such a key point you've touched
S1: on here, because we're not going to be open to
S1: all that. We should be in the middle of suffering
S1: if we have not at least laid some groundwork by
S1: way of our relationship with God. Right?
S4: Right. And I mean, Jesus talks about it in the
S4: New Testament, right? That you go you build your house
S4: on the firm Foundation before the storm hits. Right. We
S4: don't start building once we're in the storm. We need
S4: to build, and we need to have that firm foundation
S4: that's been chosen well before the storm comes at us.
S4: And then we can withstand it.
S1: From Moody Radio. This is the land and the book.
S1: I'm John Geiger, our guest, doctor Michelle Keener. She's helping
S1: us learn to be better helpers as we engage friends
S1: going through trauma. And that's where we're headed next. Obviously, Michelle,
S1: the book of job has insights for those of us
S1: going through trauma today. You've written it's time for church
S1: leaders and believers to stop offering prettily packaged responses from
S1: a safe distance. It's time for us to sit in
S1: the ashes with the hurting. Our Sunday school clothes covered
S1: in dirt and grime, our faces lined with tears. Trauma
S1: brings people to the ash heap. So that is where
S1: the church needs to go. It sounds to me like
S1: you might be giving the church today a less than
S1: glowing endorsement along the lines of our suffering engagement component.
S4: Elaborate a less than glowing endorsement, maybe. I think really
S4: the the purpose is to remind us all as the church,
S4: because the church isn't a building. The church is people.
S4: It's to remind us all that Jesus met people in
S4: their suffering, and there wasn't an expectation of, I need
S4: you to get all your stuff together. I need you
S4: to be better. And then you can come and worship
S4: with me, and then you can come and be a
S4: part of me. But instead, Jesus is meeting people right
S4: in the ash heap. He's meeting them in their suffering.
S4: He's meeting them in their pain. And my experience and
S4: some of the things I've seen, and the church does
S4: so many things so well. But there are times when
S4: suffering is scary. Yes. And so there are church leaders.
S4: There are church believers, church members, and we tend to
S4: pull back and say, oh, I'm going to give them
S4: some space so they can work through this, but I'll
S4: be here when they come back. How opposite is that
S4: to what Jesus demonstrated and to what God demonstrated in
S4: the book of Job? Right? Right. God shows up in
S4: the ashes. And so it's not meant to be a
S4: really a harsh criticism of the church. It's really meant
S4: to be more of a reminder of who we're called
S4: to be, and the purpose that God has already given us.
S1: Yeah. Well, I really resonate with what you're saying there,
S1: because it seems to me that one of the biggest
S1: hurdles we face is knowing how, or even if we
S1: should mention the pain, the tragedy, the loss that a
S1: fellow believer is going through. It's not so much that
S1: we don't care to help, but that we don't want
S1: to hurt by bringing up something that might be too sensitive.
S1: So in many cases, as you've observed, we end up
S1: saying nothing. So what's a better road to take? What
S1: is the the first step toward moving toward the ashes?
S4: Oh, that's such a great question. I think the first
S4: step is actually what we see job's friends do. They
S4: show up for job and they sit with him, right?
S4: They sit with him in silence for seven days. Right?
S4: It's only when people begin talking that things go sideways
S4: in the book of job. But this idea that we
S4: can be present to someone in their pain, even if
S4: we don't have all the answers, even if we don't
S4: know why this awful thing happened to them. I don't
S4: know why you got this diagnosis. I don't know why
S4: you lost your child. I don't know why you lost
S4: your job. But I know that I love you, and
S4: I can sit with you here and make sure you're
S4: not going through it by yourself. So I would suggest
S4: that first step is just being present.
S1: Yeah, well, it seems to me we're not very good listeners.
S1: I think that's part of the fallen human state. I'm
S1: reading a book right now How to Listen with intention,
S1: and the author observes, listening well requires that you suspend
S1: your own self-interest and ego and gracefully allow someone else
S1: to shine. Maybe in this context, even if they're in
S1: the ashes. So, Michelle, how much of a factor is
S1: this unwillingness of ours to suspend our own self-interest?
S4: Oh, I think it's a huge factor. And I'm just
S4: going to write down that book title because I'm going
S4: to go get that book. I'm so glad you shared that.
S4: And I do think that's a big part of it
S4: is a lot of times we listen to respond instead
S4: of listening to receive. So I'm going to listen. But
S4: as you're talking, I've got this voice in my head
S4: that's preparing my response and everything I want to say,
S4: which is I want to make sure I can impose
S4: my agenda and give you an answer, rather than taking
S4: the time to say, I don't really understand what you're
S4: going through. So I'm just going to listen, to learn
S4: and get a better idea of where you're at. And
S4: I think one of the things we see the church
S4: do a lot is battle this instinct, this sense of
S4: obligation to have all the answers.
S1: Yes.
S4: Like if someone comes to us in suffering, I need
S4: to be able to explain it, and I have to
S4: be able to tell them exactly what to do. Or
S4: as a pastor, as a church leader, I'm not doing
S4: my job. And what I would challenge that is to say,
S4: maybe the first step is to listen and to have
S4: the humility to say, maybe I don't know what you're
S4: going through, but I can learn and I can support
S4: you in it.
S1: You say that theological platitudes and positive thinking aren't simply
S1: dismissive to those who suffer, but they inevitably retraumatize the wounded. Now,
S1: surely you're not suggesting there's no role at all for
S1: sharing an appropriate word of Scripture, are you?
S4: Absolutely not. And especially because I work in a church. Boy,
S4: that would be bad, right? No, I think there is
S4: always a time for us to share the truth and
S4: the love of God. Absolutely. My concern is when we
S4: want to offer kind of a bumper sticker response or
S4: the coffee mug verse. So we're just going to throw
S4: that quick. Oh you just need to pray more or
S4: oh just let go and let God. Right. Or just
S4: trust that God's working all things for good. All of
S4: those things are probably true, right? All of those scriptures,
S4: they all count. And at the same time, the right
S4: word at the wrong time risks being the wrong response. Yeah.
S4: And so we need to be sensitive to where is
S4: this person right now. What do they need from me
S4: right now instead of trying to throw that quick response
S4: that makes us sound super spiritual and makes us sound
S4: like we got all the answers. Maybe we just need
S4: to be able to say, I don't know. Yeah.
S1: Well, in the moment we've got left, would you just
S1: walk us through a step or two further in bringing
S1: comfort to somebody in the ashes? What could we do?
S4: Absolutely. So I offer in the book three steps that
S4: we as the church and then even we as individual
S4: believers can help bring to someone who is going through
S4: a season of suffering. The first is to provide a
S4: place of safety. And that means physical safety, emotional spiritual safety,
S4: making sure that this person is in a good, safe place.
S4: The second is to provide them with a place to
S4: share their story. Everybody wants to be listened to, right?
S4: Everybody wants to know that there is a place where
S4: they can talk about what they're going through without judgment,
S4: without feeling bad for the way they're already feeling. And
S4: then the third is a place of community, right. That
S4: we can be very intentional about creating spaces where people belong,
S4: where people know they're welcome, where people know that they
S4: can be a part and join with us even if
S4: they're still in the ashes. Even if life hasn't worked
S4: everything out yet, that they're still welcome and we would
S4: still love to be with them.
S1: Boy, that is great content. And there's a whole lot
S1: more in Michelle's book, comfort in the ashes. You've enjoyed
S1: this interview as you've listened. I'm sure you'll love the book.
S1: A link to that at our website. The land and
S1: the book. Michelle, you've got to come back and visit
S1: with us again. Would you do that?
S4: Anytime you let me know and I will be here.
S1: All right. We'll look forward to that. But right now,
S1: it's a visit with Gerald Peterman, who answers your Bible
S1: questions next on the land and the book. Let's be honest,
S1: when it comes to reading and studying our Bibles, questions
S1: come easily. Answers are not so easily. This is the
S1: land and the book. I'm John Gager, and that's why
S1: we dedicate this third segment to taking a look at
S1: not just any questions, but your questions. Questions that you've
S1: puzzled over as you're reading through Scripture. So glad you've
S1: decided to hang out with us today. And I have
S1: a question as we start things off, though, with our
S1: Bible expert guy, Doctor Gerald Peterman. Do you know that
S1: most Jewish people have never heard the gospel? And you know, Jerry,
S1: every week we talk about Israel and the Jewish people,
S1: and it's so important to remember that they, like everybody else,
S1: need to hear the good news, right?
S5: That's so right. Yes, indeed. Life in Messiah, a ministry
S5: in existence for over 135 years, is devoted to sharing
S5: the gospel with Jewish people around the world. Now they're
S5: offering a gift to many listeners. This free e-book, Reaching
S5: Jewish People for Messiah, highlights the need for the gospel
S5: among the Jewish people and will equip you with practical
S5: ways to share the Good News with them. To receive
S5: this free e-book, visit Messiah. Click on the Moody Radio
S5: logo and sign up today to get your copy.
S1: All right. Thanks, Jerry. Let's get to Shaun's question. He
S1: kicks things off, asking how many resurrections are there in
S1: the future? As in the past, there were resurrections in
S1: the Old Testament and New Testament, he says, and our
S1: Lord Jesus resurrection is past. So how many resurrections are
S1: there in the future?
S5: Well, according to Paul, in first Thessalonians four verses 16
S5: and 17, there will be a rapture when the Lord returns.
S5: Paul says, the Lord will descend from heaven, and the
S5: dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are
S5: alive and are left will be caught up together to
S5: meet them in the clouds, in the air. That makes
S5: one resurrection. Then we go to the book of Revelation.
S5: When the tribulation starts, there'll be a seven year tribulation
S5: after the tribulation. We find the story of the Millennial Kingdom.
S5: Revelation 20 mentions a resurrection at the beginning of the
S5: Millennial Kingdom that makes two. And then revelation 20 says,
S5: the rest of the dead will not come to life
S5: until after the thousand years are completed. That makes three.
S1: All right. The answer is three. I hope that's helpful.
S1: And here's a question from a listener who is studying
S1: Psalm 71. In verse nine it says, do not cast
S1: me off in the time of old age. Forsake me
S1: not when my strength is spent. The listener says, this
S1: has got me to thinking. Besides David, in a middle
S1: age crisis with Bathsheba, King Solomon falling away to idolatry
S1: and King Asa's losing trust in God referenced in second Chronicles,
S1: are there any other great men of the Bible that
S1: fell away from God in their older age?
S5: Oh, this has got me pondering and wondering if other
S5: candidates will be on the list. Uh, I'm thinking of Hezekiah. Now, earlier, uh,
S5: he was doing a really good job. But then later
S5: in life, we read in Two Kings chapter 20 that Merodach-baladan,
S5: son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent envoys and letters
S5: and a present to King Hezekiah. And then you know
S5: what happened, that when these men came from Babylon, King
S5: Hezekiah showed them everything in his armoury showed them everything
S5: in his palace. And that was a very foolish move.
S5: And the prophet then came and rebuked him for this, saying,
S5: you have done something foolish. Um, so then, uh, Hezekiah
S5: spoke to Isaiah the prophet I just mentioned. Um, the
S5: word of the Lord you have spoken is good for
S5: Hezekiah thought, why not? If there'll be peace and security
S5: in my days? Oh, it should be okay, he says,
S5: if there's peace and security in my days. This is
S5: not the attitude he had earlier in life, you know.
S5: Now he seems to be thinking, as long as I'm okay,
S5: we're all okay.
S1: Yeah. Not a forward looking response.
S5: Not a oh, that's a great way of putting it.
S5: This is not a forward looking response.
S1: Now, if I'm not mistaken, all of this happens after
S1: he has been told, hey, you've got a fatal illness
S1: or you're going to get ready to die, right? And
S1: then Hezekiah pleads for his life and God says, I'm
S1: going to extend that.
S5: And Hezekiah turns his face against the wall. He pleads
S5: with God. He weeps. And then Isaiah, who's actually in
S5: the middle of doing something else, is then sent back
S5: to him. Go back and tell him, I'm going to
S5: extend your life for 15 years. So after getting such
S5: a tremendous grace from God, he then has this kind
S5: of quirky, I would say, pretty much bad attitude later
S5: in life.
S1: You know, I have often wondered if you were to
S1: interview him now or in heaven. It might be an
S1: uncomfortable question, but what would his response be to the question,
S1: had you to do it all over again? Would you
S1: have not asked to have your life extended, knowing that
S1: that other failure was going to come with it?
S5: Oh, I don't know. I hate to second guess, but
S5: I think the answer would be yes. I'd rather. Let
S5: me paraphrase it like I'm speaking for Hezekiah. I'd rather
S5: obey God than have a longer life.
S1: Yeah, I do too. This is the land and the
S1: book from Moody Radio. Doctor Gerald Peterman, who serves on
S1: the Moody Bible Institute faculty, is with us in the studio,
S1: and he welcomes your questions online at The Land and
S1: the Book at Moody's. Again, you got to email those
S1: questions to the land and the book at Moody's. Marcia
S1: was reading in second Samuel eight, and she points out
S1: that verse 18 says at the end, David's sons were priests.
S1: She says, I was surprised because priests do not come
S1: from the tribe of Judah. David's tribe. And I don't
S1: believe I've ever heard of them being priests. Can you
S1: explain this to me, Marcia?
S5: Brings a tough question. Different Bible scholars give different answers
S5: to the question, as you might imagine. Some say David's
S5: sons functioned as priests even though it was wrong for
S5: them to do so. And they say the author of
S5: two Samuel just mentions it and doesn't tell us what
S5: was wrong. Well, I don't think so. Some other scholars
S5: say David and his sons were priests according to the
S5: order of Melchizedek. Well, actually, we don't find this order
S5: mentioned in first and second Samuel. Oh, by the way,
S5: it's mentioned in Psalm 110. So my solution is the
S5: term priests was sometimes used for civil servants as opposed
S5: to religious servants. Okay. There's a close parallel to this
S5: in First Chronicles 1817, where you find something very similar
S5: to the passage that Marcia was reading. Although the chronicler
S5: then says David's three sons were listed as chief officials.
S5: I hope that helps.
S1: Okay. I do too. Charles takes us to Nehemiah chapter two,
S1: which tells of the time that Nehemiah was sad in
S1: the king's presence and made known his desire to return
S1: to Judah to help rebuild the walls. Verse six parenthetically
S1: includes the fact that, quote, the queen was sitting beside
S1: the king. What would be the significance of that fact?
S1: Charles wonders.
S5: I'm thinking, Charles, for reading carefully and wondering why was
S5: the Queen sitting there? Yeah, that's very important because typically
S5: when the Kings go about doing their job, they are
S5: running so low. When the king and queen are together,
S5: it's an official business. This is a public presentation. Maybe
S5: there's some sort of entourage of people there. And so
S5: this means that when Nehemiah is seen as sad in
S5: the king's presence with the queen there, it's a very
S5: public event. And then it's even more astounding to me
S5: that then he prays secretly to his God and then
S5: brings up this question. Oh, I think that's just courageous
S5: on Nehemiah's part.
S1: Here's a question why does it seem that men in
S1: churches today, in their latter years, seem to fall away?
S1: Is it pride, or are they thinking they know it all?
S1: Or is it the feeling that God has forsaken them
S1: because they're moving on in life, just aging out?
S5: That's a great question. I'm sad to hear from this
S5: listener that this is this listener's experience, that many older
S5: men are falling away from the faith or not attending
S5: church anymore. That's not been my experience, my experience in
S5: the congregation where I've been. Thanks be to God is
S5: the older men are hanging in there. They're attending church
S5: in their 90s and they are faithful. But to answer
S5: the question, yes, I think sometimes when we get older,
S5: we begin to get prideful. When we get older, we
S5: think we're wiser. We begin to kind of take it easy,
S5: and when we get older we get, uh, maybe we
S5: have aches or pains. And we're thinking attending church is
S5: not that important.
S1: It could be any number of factors, is what you're saying.
S5: It could be any number of factors. Yeah.
S1: All right. Here's one from Melissa. She's wondering about the
S1: claim that there are no tears in heaven. If we
S1: have loved ones, she says, who will not accept Jesus
S1: as their Savior here? How can there be no tears
S1: in heaven, but we just forget them when we get
S1: to heaven? She says, I've prayed and continued to pray
S1: that their hearts will soften and will one day come
S1: to know Jesus, but it seems like an unbearable thing
S1: to be in heaven without them. I've wondered about this too.
S5: Yes, this is a very important question, and I was
S5: deeply touched by the compassion you hear in this question.
S5: If we have a family member, if we have a
S5: close friend who doesn't know Christ, it hurts us. It
S5: hurt Paul. Read Romans nine. I don't have a particular passage.
S5: I don't have a particular verse that addresses this. But
S5: what I do know is that when we're in the
S5: new heaven and the new earth, when we have our
S5: new body, we will have been transformed. We will no
S5: longer have a sinful nature, and we're going to be
S5: in the presence of God. And we're going to, thanks
S5: be to God, see our Lord Jesus face to face.
S5: And our whole perspective on the world and our whole
S5: perspective on our existence is just going to be radically transformed.
S5: So I think at this point, we're going to be
S5: able to trust God with our lost family members in
S5: ways we could never trust him while we were on earth.
S1: And I would add two things. And I wonder if
S1: you could confirm or maybe correct one in heaven. We
S1: will finally have a fully correct sense of the justice
S1: of God. We will not be as likely to quote
S1: blame him as we feel free to do now. And
S1: number two, We will be so in love with Jesus,
S1: it will overshadow everything.
S5: Absolutely. Having a better insight into the justice of God.
S5: Because these days, many times we complain because we think
S5: God isn't just yes. And being so in love with
S5: Jesus and receiving his love in heaven. Everything else is
S5: just going to be washed away.
S1: Hey. Our email address for you to get your question
S1: to Doctor Peterman is the land and the book at Moody.
S1: Hope to hear from you. And Charlie Dyer is back
S1: with his devotional next. That's right here. Appreciate your company
S1: here at the land and the book. Always fun to
S1: have you. Part of the broadcast. I'm John Geiger with
S1: our host, Charlie Dyer. You know, Charlie riots, you think
S1: about riots, an out of control crowd. Absolutely. Never fun
S1: and always scary. But riots are nothing new. In fact,
S1: you'll find accounts of several of them in Scripture. And
S1: I think that's where we're headed with today's devotional.
S2: It is absolutely. We're going to head to the temple
S2: at Pentecost and see a riot.
S1: Okay. I think I'll look forward to that. But before
S1: we get there, let's pause for a Holy Land experience.
S1: Listen to this testimony from an Israel traveler.
S6: I went to Israel in 1997 with a group of
S6: Messianic Jews, and when we were on the Mount of Olives,
S6: the rabbi who was with us, the messianic rabbi, would
S6: always give a lesson from the Bible at each spot
S6: that we stopped at. And after he gave the lesson,
S6: we were to separate from each other and go find
S6: a quiet place and pray. And I felt like the
S6: Lord was saying to me as I was looking at
S6: these olive trees, these olives are not very valuable. Just
S6: being olives. But when they're squeezed and the oil comes out,
S6: that is valuable. It brings healing. Are you willing to
S6: be squeezed so that that oil can bring healing to others?
S6: And of course, in the years to come, I was
S6: squeezed very much. And I'm glad that the Lord gave
S6: me that, because I always reflect on that and know
S6: that he was preparing me and he was testing me.
S6: And so sometimes those kind of things happen in a
S6: place like Israel. So I just wanted to share that.
S6: And thank you very much for your program.
S1: Always great to hear from folks who've been to the
S1: Holy Land and walk away forever changed with stories like
S1: you just heard. All right, Charlie, let's turn it over
S1: to you for today's devotional.
S2: Thanks, John. Yeah. This Sunday is the Jewish feast of Shavuot,
S2: the celebration we know as the day of Pentecost. Though
S2: in a strange quirk of scheduling, the church actually celebrates
S2: Pentecost a week later on June 8th. But our journey
S2: today takes us to Jerusalem to celebrate Shavuot. But not
S2: in 2025. We're heading to Jerusalem in the spring of A.D. 57,
S2: 14 years after the resurrection of Jesus and the birth
S2: of the church. As one of the three annual feasts
S2: when Jews were expected to appear before the Lord, the
S2: temple indeed the entire city is wall to wall people.
S2: Now keep a close look out, because somewhere in this
S2: mass of humanity is the Apostle Paul. But I'm getting
S2: ahead of myself. So let's gather over here in the
S2: far corner of the court of the Gentiles, next to
S2: this stairway that leads up to the Roman fortress of Antonia.
S2: And I'll try to bring you up to date. Several
S2: weeks ago, Paul was traveling from Corinth back to Jerusalem
S2: at the end of his third missionary journey. Paul stopped
S2: off in Philippi to celebrate Passover and the Feast of
S2: Unleavened Bread before continuing. He then visited with the believers
S2: in Troas for seven days. And that's where he raised
S2: Eutychus from the dead on a Sunday night service to
S2: be remembered. It's the service where Paul spoke to the
S2: church all night because he planned to leave the next day.
S2: A few days later, Paul docked in Miletus and sent
S2: for the elders of Ephesus. They probably expected him to
S2: spend some time in the city because of all the
S2: time he'd spent there before. But Paul was a man
S2: on a mission. He said he was in a hurry
S2: to reach Jerusalem, if possible. By Shavuot, which was now
S2: less than a month away. Amazingly, Paul made it to
S2: Jerusalem with just over a week to spare. The leaders
S2: of the church in Jerusalem asked Paul to demonstrate his
S2: commitment to God and His Word by paying the expenses
S2: for four individuals about to complete a Nazarite vow. And
S2: that brings us to where we are today. The crowds
S2: are pressing in on every side, but somewhere in this
S2: mass of people is the Apostle Paul. He's been coming
S2: to the temple every single day, between the celebration of
S2: Shavuot and the preparation for helping these men fulfill their
S2: Nazarite vow. Paul has been a man on the move,
S2: and that's probably good, because there are a large number
S2: of people in this crowd who would like nothing better
S2: than to cause him harm. Their hatred of Paul is visceral,
S2: and that's why. Wait a minute. Do you hear all
S2: that noise coming from beyond the wall there inside the
S2: temple court? There seems to be some sort of an uproar,
S2: but I can't tell if it's revelry or a riot. Look,
S2: here comes a large crowd streaming out of the gate
S2: there on the north side, and the gates being slammed
S2: shut behind them. What are they saying? And who is
S2: it that they seem to be dragging along? It looks like.
S2: Yes it is. It's the Apostle Paul. The crowd's starting
S2: to get ugly. So let's work our way closer to
S2: the exit, just in case we don't want to get
S2: trapped in here. If Roman soldiers come swooping down that
S2: stairway from the fortress of Antonia. And look out! Here
S2: they come! Thankfully, the rioters have also spotted them and
S2: stopped beating Paul. It looks like he's going to be rescued.
S2: I'll bet when you came here for Pentecost, you never
S2: expected to see a riot, did you? This might be
S2: a good time to slip away, except the crowd seems
S2: to be quieting down. Look, Paul, standing there on the
S2: steps leading up to the fortress, and he's surrounded by soldiers.
S2: He's starting to speak to the crowd. So let's listen
S2: to what he has to say. He's speaking in Aramaic,
S2: so I'll try to translate. He's telling about himself and
S2: his religious upbringing. He just said he was trained under Gamaliel.
S2: I see some in the crowd starting to nod their approval.
S2: And now he's talking about how Jesus appeared to him
S2: on the road to Damascus. He just said Jesus appeared
S2: to him again when he returned to Jerusalem and was
S2: praying here in the temple. And oh, the riot starting again!
S2: Paul just said Jesus had sent him to the Gentiles,
S2: and that's all this crowd needed to hear. They're now
S2: saying he's not fit to live and that they should
S2: rid the earth of him. It's a good thing the
S2: Roman soldiers have him in custody, or I think that
S2: mob would have killed him right on the spot. Let's
S2: slip out of here while we can. Well, the events
S2: on this Pentecost are certainly different from those 14 years ago.
S2: Or are they? Back then, Peter was the one preaching
S2: to those gathered in the temple. This time it's Paul.
S2: But the message is basically the same in the sense
S2: that the focus is on Jesus and on obedience to him.
S2: There wasn't a mob response back when Peter preached, but
S2: it soon followed. In fact, Paul, who was called Saul
S2: at the time, was with the crowd who stoned Stephen
S2: to death. I know none of this should surprise us
S2: too much. There always seems to be a visceral reaction
S2: when the claims of Jesus are presented. Some respond in
S2: faith and placed their trust in him, but others react violently,
S2: rejecting the message and even trying to harm the messenger.
S2: And yet, the message keeps being proclaimed. On the original
S2: day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out on
S2: all the followers of Jesus. By the time today's riot
S2: rolled around, tens of thousands had responded in faith to
S2: that same message, and they were also empowered by the
S2: Holy Spirit and became witnesses to Jesus. Well, it's time
S2: for us to head back home from the temple. I
S2: doubt if you will ever forget the scene you just witnessed.
S2: But more than just memories of a riot, I'd really
S2: like you to carry away one key lesson from the
S2: scene that unfolded. The lesson is the importance of courage.
S2: It took courage for Paul to go to the temple
S2: in the first place. All along his journey to Jerusalem,
S2: Paul was warned that chains and prison awaited him. But
S2: Paul kept going. And then when he was attacked by
S2: the mob and rescued by the soldiers, instead of letting
S2: them carry him away to safety, Paul asked to address
S2: the very mob that had tried to kill him. He
S2: definitely had courage. Now we live in a day when
S2: keeping a low profile and getting along with the crowd
S2: is considered wise advice. But maybe, maybe it's time for
S2: us to stand boldly for the Lord and share the
S2: message the world needs to hear, even if it's not
S2: the one they want to hear. On his way to Jerusalem,
S2: Paul said this to the elders at Ephesus in Acts 2020.
S2: You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything
S2: that would be helpful to you, but have taught you
S2: publicly and from house to house. And we talk about
S2: 2020 vision. But maybe as believers, what we need today
S2: is the acts 20, verse 20, courage displayed by Paul.
S2: Or as he put it, I have not hesitated. Paul
S2: made an impact, not just an impression, on everyone around him,
S2: because he was courageous in standing for the Lord. This
S2: day of Pentecost. Why not vow to stand courageously for
S2: the Lord where you live and work? I don't know
S2: if you'll cause a riot, but I do know you
S2: will make an impact for Jesus.
S1: Thank you, Charlie boy. That's really well said and impact
S1: for Jesus. I hope you want that too. You can
S1: always go back and hear this program in its entirety
S1: at our website. The land and the book. Org. Yeah,
S1: the podcast is always there for you and your friends.
S1: We appreciate when you're passing the word along to them
S1: about this ministry. Also, your Bible questions are welcome. Doctor
S1: Gerald Peterman is glad to take those. And we heard
S1: him earlier. You can email us with your question at
S1: the land and the book. That's the land and the
S1: book at Moody's. Charlie, I think it's important for listeners
S1: to know that this is a listener supported ministry. And
S1: the fact of the matter is that so many stations
S1: are just giving us airtime. We need to let them
S1: know that this program is appreciated. Right?
S2: Well, absolutely, John. In fact, you know, sending an email
S2: or calling or even writing a letter as an encouragement
S2: to the station and also a reminder to them that
S2: this program is making an impact on people's lives.
S1: So thanks for doing that. And thanks for hanging out
S1: with us here at The Land and the book on
S1: behalf of our producer, Dan Anderson, our host, Charlie Dyer,
S1: I'm John Yeager, and the land and the book is
S1: a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.