1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,920 S1: Every single day you brush shoulders with people experiencing trauma. 2 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,600 S1: A few of us know how to respond. Coming up 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,600 S1: on today's broadcast, we'll learn some lessons from the biblical 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,880 S1: character job. As we sit down with job, we'll find 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,120 S1: comfort in the ashes. The best part? You'll come away 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,480 S1: with tools to help support trauma survivors in your life. 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,680 S1: And maybe you are that survivor. As always, we'll update 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,360 S1: you on all the headlines from the Middle East and more. 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,440 S1: So welcome to the land and the book. Our host, 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,920 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, Middle East expert and author. I'm John 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,440 S1: Gager and you know, Charlie, a lot of people are, 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,600 S1: you know, maybe not thinking about the fact that Jewish 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,400 S1: people in general have never heard the gospel. Some, yes, 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,920 S1: but many haven't. And every week we talk about Israel 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,360 S1: and the Jewish people, and it's important to remember that they, 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,120 S1: like everyone else, need to hear the good news, right? 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,070 S2: That's right. And that's why life in Messiah, this ministry 18 00:01:00,070 --> 00:01:04,630 S2: that's been in existence for over 135 years, is devoted 19 00:01:04,630 --> 00:01:07,390 S2: to sharing the gospel with Jewish people around the world. 20 00:01:07,750 --> 00:01:10,630 S2: And now they're offering a gift to moody listeners. This 21 00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:15,110 S2: free e-book, Reaching Jewish People for Messiah, highlights the need 22 00:01:15,110 --> 00:01:18,389 S2: for the gospel among the Jewish people. It will equip 23 00:01:18,390 --> 00:01:21,709 S2: you with practical ways to share the good News with them. Now, 24 00:01:21,709 --> 00:01:25,390 S2: to receive this free e-book, visit Life in Messiah org 25 00:01:25,510 --> 00:01:28,309 S2: and click on the Moody Radio logo. Sign up today 26 00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:31,350 S2: to get your copy. That's life in Messiah. 27 00:01:32,830 --> 00:01:36,070 S1: Well, let's swing our focus now toward current events. US 28 00:01:36,110 --> 00:01:41,309 S1: and Iranian negotiators continue discussing Iran's nuclear program. But really, 29 00:01:41,310 --> 00:01:44,470 S1: are they making any progress and what will happen should 30 00:01:44,470 --> 00:01:47,030 S1: those discussions finally reach an impasse? 31 00:01:47,590 --> 00:01:50,950 S2: The most recent round of talks were inconclusive, though all 32 00:01:50,950 --> 00:01:55,309 S2: sides issued positive statements afterward. The US characterized the talks 33 00:01:55,310 --> 00:01:59,460 S2: as constructive and President Trump said there was real progress. Now, 34 00:01:59,500 --> 00:02:02,580 S2: talk of an interim deal with creative options for producing 35 00:02:02,580 --> 00:02:07,100 S2: nuclear fuel and including joint ventures are apparently being floated. 36 00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:11,020 S2: Senior European officials have warned the U.S. that Iran is 37 00:02:11,020 --> 00:02:15,740 S2: stalling the negotiations to avoid having U.N. sanctions snap back 38 00:02:15,740 --> 00:02:20,140 S2: into place before they're scheduled to expire. Under the original agreement, 39 00:02:20,139 --> 00:02:23,580 S2: the West has the authority to reimpose broad U.N. Security 40 00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:27,859 S2: Council sanctions on Iran in response to major violations of 41 00:02:27,860 --> 00:02:33,500 S2: Iran's nuclear commitments. However, that option expires in October. Iran 42 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:37,220 S2: has already threatened to respond forcefully should the Europeans activate 43 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:41,579 S2: the snapback mechanism. The core area of disagreement still remains 44 00:02:41,580 --> 00:02:44,940 S2: the issue of uranium enrichment. The U.S. has said it 45 00:02:44,940 --> 00:02:48,660 S2: will not allow Iran to enrich uranium under a new agreement, 46 00:02:48,660 --> 00:02:51,260 S2: while Iran insists it has a right to do so. 47 00:02:51,780 --> 00:02:55,980 S2: As the negotiations continue, reports are circulating that suggest Israel 48 00:02:55,980 --> 00:03:00,290 S2: is preparing for a strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. What's 49 00:03:00,290 --> 00:03:03,049 S2: not clear is whether Israel will hold off to see 50 00:03:03,050 --> 00:03:06,770 S2: how the negotiations progress, or if they're planning an attack, 51 00:03:06,770 --> 00:03:10,489 S2: regardless of what happens in the negotiations. This is causing 52 00:03:10,530 --> 00:03:14,370 S2: tension between President Trump and Israel. And Israel has denied 53 00:03:14,370 --> 00:03:16,690 S2: it will strike Iran in a bid to derail the 54 00:03:16,690 --> 00:03:20,290 S2: current nuclear talks. Iran said it would strike a devastating 55 00:03:20,290 --> 00:03:24,490 S2: blow should Israel attack. Now, Israel views Iran's nuclear program 56 00:03:24,490 --> 00:03:27,730 S2: as an existential threat. This is what people need to understand. 57 00:03:27,889 --> 00:03:32,170 S2: In 1981, Israel attacked Iraq to stop Saddam Hussein from 58 00:03:32,169 --> 00:03:36,210 S2: acquiring nuclear weapons, and in 2007, they attacked a nuclear 59 00:03:36,210 --> 00:03:40,370 S2: facility being built in Syria to stop Bashar Assad from 60 00:03:40,370 --> 00:03:43,690 S2: obtaining nuclear weapons. They'll do the same to Iran if 61 00:03:43,690 --> 00:03:49,210 S2: it's necessary. Ambassador Huckabee reaffirmed President Trump's position that Iran 62 00:03:49,210 --> 00:03:52,570 S2: will not be allowed to have nuclear weapons. With the 63 00:03:52,570 --> 00:03:55,480 S2: end of UN sanctions looming on the horizon and In 64 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,040 S2: Israel preparing to defend itself. A time will come, very 65 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,040 S2: possibly this summer, when Iran will either agree to end 66 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,480 S2: its nuclear program voluntarily, or Israel could very well intervene 67 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,400 S2: to try to bring it to an end themselves. 68 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,600 S1: Story number two, the US has lifted sanctions on Syria, 69 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,120 S1: but questions remain over the long term stability of the country. Charlie, 70 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,640 S1: that leads me to ask in the first place, what 71 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,120 S1: in the world are we doing? It does appear unstable. 72 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,680 S1: What has changed the suddenly are here's a here's a 73 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,480 S1: great place to lift some sanctions. 74 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,159 S2: It is definitely unstable and it's a rather dangerous move 75 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,720 S2: on the US's part. In fact, I think there are 76 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,680 S2: three obstacles to stability that we are not facing up to. 77 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,880 S2: The first is Syria's lack of cohesion. Most people don't 78 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,360 S2: know it, but Syria is actually an artificial country. It 79 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,360 S2: was created following World War one. England and France carved 80 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,440 S2: up the Middle East into spheres of influence without really 81 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,920 S2: taking into account geographical, ethnic or religious boundaries. Syria was 82 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,940 S2: created from a patchwork of ethnic and religious groups. For decades, 83 00:04:57,940 --> 00:05:00,580 S2: it was ruled by the Assads, who were part of 84 00:05:00,580 --> 00:05:03,620 S2: the minority Alawites. Even though the majority of the people 85 00:05:03,620 --> 00:05:10,900 S2: are Sunni Muslims, the country also has significant populations of Druze, Kurds, Christians, Shiites, 86 00:05:10,940 --> 00:05:15,500 S2: Yazidis and Ismailis. The second obstacle, though, is the background 87 00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:19,620 S2: of Syria's new president. Before donning a suit, Al-shara was 88 00:05:19,620 --> 00:05:22,660 S2: part of Al Qaeda and then founded his own terror 89 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:26,140 S2: group that mirrored ISIS. He claims to have changed, but 90 00:05:26,140 --> 00:05:29,620 S2: as one Druze leader in Syria said, he still keeps 91 00:05:29,620 --> 00:05:32,620 S2: his beard, which shows he's afraid of all the fundamentalist 92 00:05:32,620 --> 00:05:35,779 S2: religious groups. And there have already been multiple attacks by 93 00:05:35,779 --> 00:05:40,420 S2: Islamist groups against the Christians, the Alawites and the Druze communities. 94 00:05:40,779 --> 00:05:45,260 S2: The third obstacle is the constitution. Al-shara proposed for the country. 95 00:05:45,460 --> 00:05:49,180 S2: It's based on the Quran rather than a civil constitution 96 00:05:49,220 --> 00:05:52,860 S2: granting equal rights to the different sects and communities. And 97 00:05:52,860 --> 00:05:55,650 S2: this gets back to the original problem. How do you 98 00:05:55,650 --> 00:05:59,170 S2: govern a country that's really defined by strong ethnic and 99 00:05:59,170 --> 00:06:03,010 S2: religious divisions, without having one group impose its beliefs on 100 00:06:03,010 --> 00:06:06,450 S2: the others? At a Senate hearing, U.S. Secretary of State 101 00:06:06,450 --> 00:06:09,890 S2: Rubio warned that Syria could be weeks or perhaps months 102 00:06:09,890 --> 00:06:13,330 S2: away from civil war. The U.S. is hoping, I think, 103 00:06:13,370 --> 00:06:16,730 S2: trying to engage Syria's new leaders and influence them in 104 00:06:16,730 --> 00:06:19,010 S2: a way that will help promote peace in the region. 105 00:06:19,450 --> 00:06:22,570 S2: But that's really a gamble. Israel and Turkey are also 106 00:06:22,610 --> 00:06:25,810 S2: working with the new government to help stabilize the situation 107 00:06:25,810 --> 00:06:28,969 S2: along their borders. But right now, I think the jury 108 00:06:28,970 --> 00:06:32,130 S2: is out on whether or not this new government will succeed. 109 00:06:32,130 --> 00:06:34,730 S1: From Moody Radio. This is the land and the book, 110 00:06:34,730 --> 00:06:38,289 S1: our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, noted Old Testament scholar, Middle 111 00:06:38,290 --> 00:06:41,089 S1: East authority. I'm John Geiger, and these are the current 112 00:06:41,089 --> 00:06:43,890 S1: events we're looking at. Turkey might be trying to help 113 00:06:43,890 --> 00:06:47,770 S1: stabilize Syria, but Turkish President Erdogan is facing his own 114 00:06:47,770 --> 00:06:51,690 S1: set of challenges. How stable is Turkey, both economically and 115 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:52,839 S1: politically right now. 116 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,679 S2: Well, the leadership there is saying all the right things, 117 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,560 S2: but just below the surface, the country is facing a 118 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,760 S2: number of problems. Turkey's finance minister said the country's disinflation 119 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,960 S2: program is on track, and that year end inflation will 120 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,720 S2: be within the forecast range. Now that sounds good until 121 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,080 S2: you realize that the forecast for the year is 24% inflation, 122 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,960 S2: while the rate in March and April was hovering around 38% 123 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,520 S2: in a survey, nearly three quarters of Turkey's households don't 124 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,239 S2: expect the inflation rate to fall significantly in the next 125 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,320 S2: 12 months. In addition to all the ongoing economic crises, 126 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,080 S2: President Erdogan's political standing has also fallen because of the 127 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,360 S2: jailing of Istanbul's mayor, who is seen as his main 128 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,480 S2: political rival. Last week, still more political opponents were rounded 129 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,600 S2: up in Istanbul. The arrests are perceived to be politically motivated. Now, 130 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,000 S2: in addition to all that, many people distrust Erdogan because 131 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,470 S2: of his recent push for a new constitution. The current 132 00:07:52,470 --> 00:07:56,190 S2: constitution limits the president to two terms in office. And 133 00:07:56,190 --> 00:07:59,310 S2: people fear that he wants to change the Constitution to 134 00:07:59,350 --> 00:08:02,110 S2: allow him to remain in power. He said he has 135 00:08:02,110 --> 00:08:06,470 S2: no personal ambitions to seek re-election, but many, perhaps most, 136 00:08:06,470 --> 00:08:09,590 S2: are skeptical. Now, if there's one piece of positive news 137 00:08:09,590 --> 00:08:12,590 S2: for Turkey, it was the decision of the Kurdish militant 138 00:08:12,590 --> 00:08:16,310 S2: group PKK to end the insurgent war against Turkey after 139 00:08:16,310 --> 00:08:19,750 S2: 40 years. The Turkish government hailed the decision as a 140 00:08:19,750 --> 00:08:24,790 S2: historic milestone for regional peace and stability. But it's uncertain 141 00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:27,270 S2: if that one piece of good news is sufficient to 142 00:08:27,310 --> 00:08:31,470 S2: balance out all the other economic and political concerns and 143 00:08:31,470 --> 00:08:33,830 S2: crises that seem to be piling up there. 144 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:36,590 S1: What about tourism right now in Turkey? Up, down. Neutral. 145 00:08:36,590 --> 00:08:37,750 S1: What would you say, Charlie? 146 00:08:37,910 --> 00:08:41,790 S2: Actually, it's up and up rather substantially, mainly because of 147 00:08:41,790 --> 00:08:45,709 S2: the inflation rate. Turkey's currency is so devalued right now 148 00:08:45,710 --> 00:08:47,190 S2: that it's actually a pretty good buy. 149 00:08:47,309 --> 00:08:51,540 S1: Okay. Well, artificial intelligence and quantum computing are at the 150 00:08:51,540 --> 00:08:55,699 S1: forefront of technology, and several startup companies in Israel are 151 00:08:55,700 --> 00:08:58,660 S1: working to provide leadership in both areas. What's the latest 152 00:08:58,660 --> 00:09:01,460 S1: from Amazing Israel on these hot topics, Charlie? 153 00:09:01,660 --> 00:09:04,020 S2: Well, in this case, I think Israel's reputation as a 154 00:09:04,020 --> 00:09:10,100 S2: startup nation is continuing. Israeli quantum software startup Classic Technologies, 155 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:15,420 S2: and that's spelled Klassik, is focused on creating software to 156 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:19,699 S2: make quantum computing more workable and accessible. They've developed an 157 00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:23,780 S2: operating platform that works across all major types of quantum hardware. 158 00:09:24,179 --> 00:09:26,140 S2: Their goal is to become, as they would say, at 159 00:09:26,140 --> 00:09:31,020 S2: the Microsoft of quantum computing by developing operating software to 160 00:09:31,059 --> 00:09:35,620 S2: power quantum applications, just like Microsoft did with windows OS. 161 00:09:36,020 --> 00:09:40,140 S2: Their software platform would help data scientists, computational scientists, and 162 00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:45,260 S2: engineers then develop software without worrying about the quantum hardware underneath. 163 00:09:45,660 --> 00:09:50,370 S2: In terms of artificial intelligence, two other Israeli startups, Bilott's 164 00:09:50,410 --> 00:09:54,570 S2: and Fletcher, are developing AI driven solutions for industries like 165 00:09:54,570 --> 00:10:00,329 S2: construction and business operations, making them more efficient, scalable and sustainable. 166 00:10:00,410 --> 00:10:05,770 S2: And another AI startup blockade, founded by former cyber intelligence operatives, 167 00:10:05,770 --> 00:10:08,890 S2: is working to provide end to end crypto security to 168 00:10:08,929 --> 00:10:11,130 S2: keep users safe. Now, these are just some of the 169 00:10:11,130 --> 00:10:15,850 S2: recent startups utilizing their technological expertise to help power the 170 00:10:15,850 --> 00:10:19,810 S2: AI and quantum computing revolution, while also keeping the rest 171 00:10:19,809 --> 00:10:23,449 S2: of us safe from those seeking to misuse those technologies. 172 00:10:23,570 --> 00:10:25,890 S2: And that's the kind of innovation, John, that's coming out 173 00:10:25,890 --> 00:10:28,689 S2: of amazing Israel that we've all come to expect. 174 00:10:28,929 --> 00:10:31,850 S1: And that's a look at current events from the region. Well, 175 00:10:31,850 --> 00:10:34,010 S1: every single day you and I brush shoulders with people 176 00:10:34,010 --> 00:10:37,410 S1: experiencing trauma. Maybe you're one of those yourself. But so 177 00:10:37,450 --> 00:10:39,730 S1: few of us know how to respond. Well, coming up 178 00:10:39,730 --> 00:10:41,250 S1: on the land and the book, we're going to learn 179 00:10:41,250 --> 00:10:44,570 S1: some lessons from the biblical character job. As we sit 180 00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:47,400 S1: down with job, we'll find comfort in the ashes. This 181 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,640 S1: is a very practical conversation. You'll appreciate the insights and 182 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,600 S1: lessons from job. Next on the land and the book. 183 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,280 S1: One day, just one day. That's all it took to 184 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,800 S1: lose his children, his possessions, his health, his wealth. We're 185 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,559 S1: talking about the biblical character job, of course, despite his losses, 186 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,840 S1: despite the discouragement of his friends, despite the bitterness of 187 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,920 S1: his own wife, he determined to hang on to his faith. 188 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,680 S1: What made him tick? What was inside of job that 189 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,880 S1: steeled him from everything that was going on outside? Said 190 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,559 S1: another way. How did he find comfort in the ashes? 191 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,439 S1: This is the land and the book. I'm John Geiger. 192 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,199 S1: Today's conversation is for anyone in search of comfort in 193 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,780 S1: a troubling time. Maybe you've got a friend going through 194 00:11:46,780 --> 00:11:49,420 S1: something rough before we meet job, though. Let's think about 195 00:11:49,420 --> 00:11:52,060 S1: meeting our Jewish friends and neighbors, and maybe how you 196 00:11:52,059 --> 00:11:54,579 S1: and I can more effectively share the love of Christ 197 00:11:54,580 --> 00:11:58,580 S1: with them. So you and I know the gospel. Believe 198 00:11:58,580 --> 00:12:01,420 S1: the gospel. We understand the gospel. How do we explain 199 00:12:01,420 --> 00:12:04,660 S1: the gospel in a Jewish context when we're talking with 200 00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:07,260 S1: our Jewish friends? Greg Savage, what's the answer? 201 00:12:07,580 --> 00:12:10,860 S3: Well, John, I like to call this christianese. We all 202 00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:15,940 S3: have our little language justification, sanctification, blood of the lamb, 203 00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:19,220 S3: Son of God. We all use these verses, and people 204 00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:23,660 S3: that aren't believers have no idea what we're talking about. Right. 205 00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:26,260 S3: And I know for a fact, because I went to 206 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:28,980 S3: a church once with a friend and it was like, 207 00:12:29,260 --> 00:12:32,580 S3: stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, shake hands. 208 00:12:32,580 --> 00:12:36,060 S3: And there were these words that I had never heard before. 209 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:37,579 S1: This is you as a as a non-believer. 210 00:12:37,620 --> 00:12:39,980 S3: As a non-believer. And I think the best way that 211 00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:42,939 S3: you should talk to Jewish people are in terms that 212 00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:50,850 S3: they understand Stand. Atonement. God. Messiah. Repentance. Redeemer. They'll understand that. 213 00:12:50,850 --> 00:12:54,890 S3: But if you start saying, you know, justified by faith, 214 00:12:55,130 --> 00:12:56,770 S3: they'll have no idea what that is. 215 00:12:56,890 --> 00:13:00,530 S1: Yeah. So very basic and very simple and very straightforward. 216 00:13:00,530 --> 00:13:04,170 S1: That's the conversation to have as you're explaining the gospel. 217 00:13:04,210 --> 00:13:06,810 S1: That's Greg Savitt, who serves with Rock of Israel here 218 00:13:06,809 --> 00:13:11,209 S1: on the land and the book doctor. Michele Kushner is 219 00:13:11,210 --> 00:13:14,690 S1: an associate research fellow with the Kirby Centre for Public 220 00:13:14,690 --> 00:13:17,890 S1: Theology and the director of discipleship for a Growing church 221 00:13:17,890 --> 00:13:21,850 S1: in Las Vegas. She's an award winning novelist and devotional author. 222 00:13:22,090 --> 00:13:25,410 S1: Michele lives in Southern Nevada with her retired marine husband, 223 00:13:25,450 --> 00:13:29,770 S1: their two children, and one spoiled dog. Our conversation today 224 00:13:29,770 --> 00:13:33,050 S1: is inspired by her book comfort in the ashes. And 225 00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:34,730 S1: we're glad you're with us today, Michele. 226 00:13:35,050 --> 00:13:36,730 S4: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy 227 00:13:36,730 --> 00:13:37,290 S4: to be here. 228 00:13:37,530 --> 00:13:39,490 S1: Well, I've often wondered if one of the reasons God 229 00:13:39,490 --> 00:13:44,240 S1: allowed job to endure such extraordinary pain and loss so 230 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,520 S1: that none of us, none of us could ever complain 231 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,640 S1: that we've got it worse. Job kind of sets the 232 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,480 S1: bar almost impossibly high. What do you think, Michelle? 233 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,280 S4: Oh, job endures pretty much anything we could think of, right? 234 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:01,240 S4: Losing his family, losing his health, losing his community. Yeah. 235 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,240 S4: Job kind of takes it all and says, yeah, I'm 236 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,680 S4: going to walk through all of that. So it does 237 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,839 S4: kind of put our usual sufferings in a little bit 238 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:09,719 S4: of perspective. 239 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,600 S1: Yeah. Well, to that question I posed earlier, what was 240 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,840 S1: inside of job that steeled him from everything that was 241 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,000 S1: going on outside? What did he possess that many of 242 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,040 S1: us lack as we go through our own grief and pain? 243 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,480 S4: Oh, wow, that's a great question. So I think when 244 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,560 S4: we look at job, one of the first things we 245 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,560 S4: see is the love and the devotion that he had 246 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,720 S4: for God. It starts in the very beginning, and we 247 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,640 S4: see it go through the whole book that even when 248 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,280 S4: job doesn't understand what he's going through, even though he 249 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,950 S4: doesn't understand where God is. He knows who God is 250 00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:48,430 S4: and he clings to that and that's why he keeps 251 00:14:48,430 --> 00:14:51,870 S4: coming back. God, why is this happening? God, where are you? 252 00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:55,390 S4: Because he knows that God that he loves and serves. 253 00:14:55,950 --> 00:14:58,030 S1: Today on the land. And the book we're visiting with 254 00:14:58,030 --> 00:15:00,830 S1: Doctor Michelle Keener, looking at ways you and I can 255 00:15:00,830 --> 00:15:04,470 S1: bring comfort in the ashes. Her book by that same title. 256 00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:07,070 S1: You know, when you worked on this book, spending so 257 00:15:07,070 --> 00:15:09,510 S1: much time with job. What surprised you? 258 00:15:10,830 --> 00:15:14,910 S4: I think what surprised me most was seeing how understanding 259 00:15:14,950 --> 00:15:18,390 S4: trauma really helps us understand the book of job. I'd 260 00:15:18,390 --> 00:15:21,790 S4: never really put the two together before. And then once 261 00:15:21,790 --> 00:15:25,150 S4: I did kind of this background research on what trauma is, 262 00:15:25,150 --> 00:15:27,990 S4: how we tend to react to trauma, what it's like 263 00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:31,670 S4: to walk through those seasons. Then I started reading job again, 264 00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:34,030 S4: and it all kind of started to click. I was like, oh, 265 00:15:34,510 --> 00:15:37,670 S4: I get that's why it switches from prose to poetry. Oh, 266 00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:41,500 S4: I understand why job is having real big feelings about 267 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:45,540 S4: this moment and seeing those pieces. It really helped me 268 00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:49,340 S4: understand the book more. And honestly, if I'm being really transparent, 269 00:15:49,340 --> 00:15:51,820 S4: it helped me appreciate the book in a way that 270 00:15:51,820 --> 00:15:53,300 S4: I think I hadn't before. 271 00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:56,540 S1: Michelle, I'm going to confess I've got a problem, and 272 00:15:56,540 --> 00:15:59,260 S1: I think a bunch of our listeners have the same problem. 273 00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:01,500 S1: You know, we read the book of Job. We love 274 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:05,660 S1: his testimony. We love his faithfulness, and yet we know 275 00:16:05,820 --> 00:16:09,300 S1: we're just not in that league, you know. And so 276 00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:12,940 S1: it's almost like, that's nice, but it's out there. It's 277 00:16:12,940 --> 00:16:16,580 S1: unattainable for us. Speak to those of us who feel 278 00:16:16,580 --> 00:16:17,060 S1: that way. 279 00:16:17,980 --> 00:16:21,900 S4: Yeah. It's kind of holding ourselves to this standard of 280 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:26,540 S4: one of these biblical heroes, one of these biblical characters 281 00:16:26,540 --> 00:16:30,180 S4: that goes through so much. And how can I do that? Lord, 282 00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:33,220 S4: how would I ever look like that? And I think 283 00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:38,970 S4: the Book of Job shows us that suffering can come unexpectedly. Expectedly. 284 00:16:39,450 --> 00:16:43,930 S4: And so it's what we do before the suffering strikes, right? 285 00:16:43,970 --> 00:16:48,410 S4: Building that relationship with God ahead of time, really learning 286 00:16:48,410 --> 00:16:51,810 S4: who he is, and having it so settled in our 287 00:16:51,810 --> 00:16:55,570 S4: heart that I. I know God's character. I know who 288 00:16:55,570 --> 00:16:59,770 S4: Jesus is. I know what God cares about. I know 289 00:16:59,770 --> 00:17:03,210 S4: what God does in the world, that when those unexpected 290 00:17:03,210 --> 00:17:06,810 S4: moments hit, and when we find ourselves in suffering, we 291 00:17:06,810 --> 00:17:11,890 S4: have that within us already. And that's our job task 292 00:17:12,130 --> 00:17:15,370 S4: because suffering is not a competition. This is the suffering 293 00:17:15,369 --> 00:17:17,850 S4: I'm walking through, and this is how I'm going to 294 00:17:17,850 --> 00:17:18,610 S4: do it. Well. 295 00:17:18,970 --> 00:17:20,570 S1: Yeah, I think that's such a key point you've touched 296 00:17:20,570 --> 00:17:23,570 S1: on here, because we're not going to be open to 297 00:17:23,609 --> 00:17:25,930 S1: all that. We should be in the middle of suffering 298 00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:28,930 S1: if we have not at least laid some groundwork by 299 00:17:28,930 --> 00:17:30,610 S1: way of our relationship with God. Right? 300 00:17:31,210 --> 00:17:33,570 S4: Right. And I mean, Jesus talks about it in the 301 00:17:33,570 --> 00:17:36,290 S4: New Testament, right? That you go you build your house 302 00:17:36,290 --> 00:17:39,840 S4: on the firm Foundation before the storm hits. Right. We 303 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,600 S4: don't start building once we're in the storm. We need 304 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,800 S4: to build, and we need to have that firm foundation 305 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,960 S4: that's been chosen well before the storm comes at us. 306 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,640 S4: And then we can withstand it. 307 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,399 S1: From Moody Radio. This is the land and the book. 308 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,760 S1: I'm John Geiger, our guest, doctor Michelle Keener. She's helping 309 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,840 S1: us learn to be better helpers as we engage friends 310 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,320 S1: going through trauma. And that's where we're headed next. Obviously, Michelle, 311 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,080 S1: the book of job has insights for those of us 312 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,639 S1: going through trauma today. You've written it's time for church 313 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:14,200 S1: leaders and believers to stop offering prettily packaged responses from 314 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,680 S1: a safe distance. It's time for us to sit in 315 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,879 S1: the ashes with the hurting. Our Sunday school clothes covered 316 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,040 S1: in dirt and grime, our faces lined with tears. Trauma 317 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,120 S1: brings people to the ash heap. So that is where 318 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,880 S1: the church needs to go. It sounds to me like 319 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,920 S1: you might be giving the church today a less than 320 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,359 S1: glowing endorsement along the lines of our suffering engagement component. 321 00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:42,190 S4: Elaborate a less than glowing endorsement, maybe. I think really 322 00:18:42,190 --> 00:18:46,990 S4: the the purpose is to remind us all as the church, 323 00:18:47,310 --> 00:18:49,950 S4: because the church isn't a building. The church is people. 324 00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:54,590 S4: It's to remind us all that Jesus met people in 325 00:18:54,590 --> 00:18:58,430 S4: their suffering, and there wasn't an expectation of, I need 326 00:18:58,430 --> 00:19:01,310 S4: you to get all your stuff together. I need you 327 00:19:01,310 --> 00:19:04,910 S4: to be better. And then you can come and worship 328 00:19:04,910 --> 00:19:07,030 S4: with me, and then you can come and be a 329 00:19:07,030 --> 00:19:12,430 S4: part of me. But instead, Jesus is meeting people right 330 00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:15,110 S4: in the ash heap. He's meeting them in their suffering. 331 00:19:15,109 --> 00:19:19,310 S4: He's meeting them in their pain. And my experience and 332 00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:21,630 S4: some of the things I've seen, and the church does 333 00:19:21,630 --> 00:19:25,590 S4: so many things so well. But there are times when 334 00:19:25,630 --> 00:19:29,710 S4: suffering is scary. Yes. And so there are church leaders. 335 00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:33,190 S4: There are church believers, church members, and we tend to 336 00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:36,450 S4: pull back and say, oh, I'm going to give them 337 00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:40,490 S4: some space so they can work through this, but I'll 338 00:19:40,490 --> 00:19:44,649 S4: be here when they come back. How opposite is that 339 00:19:44,650 --> 00:19:48,610 S4: to what Jesus demonstrated and to what God demonstrated in 340 00:19:48,609 --> 00:19:51,810 S4: the book of Job? Right? Right. God shows up in 341 00:19:51,810 --> 00:19:55,450 S4: the ashes. And so it's not meant to be a 342 00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:58,810 S4: really a harsh criticism of the church. It's really meant 343 00:19:58,810 --> 00:20:01,650 S4: to be more of a reminder of who we're called 344 00:20:01,650 --> 00:20:05,690 S4: to be, and the purpose that God has already given us. 345 00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:07,690 S1: Yeah. Well, I really resonate with what you're saying there, 346 00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:09,530 S1: because it seems to me that one of the biggest 347 00:20:09,530 --> 00:20:12,489 S1: hurdles we face is knowing how, or even if we 348 00:20:12,490 --> 00:20:15,330 S1: should mention the pain, the tragedy, the loss that a 349 00:20:15,330 --> 00:20:17,330 S1: fellow believer is going through. It's not so much that 350 00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:19,490 S1: we don't care to help, but that we don't want 351 00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:23,050 S1: to hurt by bringing up something that might be too sensitive. 352 00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:25,649 S1: So in many cases, as you've observed, we end up 353 00:20:25,650 --> 00:20:28,330 S1: saying nothing. So what's a better road to take? What 354 00:20:28,330 --> 00:20:31,609 S1: is the the first step toward moving toward the ashes? 355 00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:34,680 S4: Oh, that's such a great question. I think the first 356 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,280 S4: step is actually what we see job's friends do. They 357 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,720 S4: show up for job and they sit with him, right? 358 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,000 S4: They sit with him in silence for seven days. Right? 359 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,119 S4: It's only when people begin talking that things go sideways 360 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,040 S4: in the book of job. But this idea that we 361 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,800 S4: can be present to someone in their pain, even if 362 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,120 S4: we don't have all the answers, even if we don't 363 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,040 S4: know why this awful thing happened to them. I don't 364 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,760 S4: know why you got this diagnosis. I don't know why 365 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,000 S4: you lost your child. I don't know why you lost 366 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,800 S4: your job. But I know that I love you, and 367 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,240 S4: I can sit with you here and make sure you're 368 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,560 S4: not going through it by yourself. So I would suggest 369 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,080 S4: that first step is just being present. 370 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,160 S1: Yeah, well, it seems to me we're not very good listeners. 371 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,800 S1: I think that's part of the fallen human state. I'm 372 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,080 S1: reading a book right now How to Listen with intention, 373 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,880 S1: and the author observes, listening well requires that you suspend 374 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,520 S1: your own self-interest and ego and gracefully allow someone else 375 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,429 S1: to shine. Maybe in this context, even if they're in 376 00:21:34,430 --> 00:21:36,990 S1: the ashes. So, Michelle, how much of a factor is 377 00:21:36,990 --> 00:21:40,950 S1: this unwillingness of ours to suspend our own self-interest? 378 00:21:41,550 --> 00:21:43,550 S4: Oh, I think it's a huge factor. And I'm just 379 00:21:43,550 --> 00:21:45,350 S4: going to write down that book title because I'm going 380 00:21:45,390 --> 00:21:48,190 S4: to go get that book. I'm so glad you shared that. 381 00:21:48,190 --> 00:21:50,389 S4: And I do think that's a big part of it 382 00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:54,350 S4: is a lot of times we listen to respond instead 383 00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:58,510 S4: of listening to receive. So I'm going to listen. But 384 00:21:58,510 --> 00:22:01,150 S4: as you're talking, I've got this voice in my head 385 00:22:01,190 --> 00:22:04,350 S4: that's preparing my response and everything I want to say, 386 00:22:04,830 --> 00:22:07,070 S4: which is I want to make sure I can impose 387 00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:11,430 S4: my agenda and give you an answer, rather than taking 388 00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:13,830 S4: the time to say, I don't really understand what you're 389 00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:16,590 S4: going through. So I'm just going to listen, to learn 390 00:22:16,830 --> 00:22:20,190 S4: and get a better idea of where you're at. And 391 00:22:20,190 --> 00:22:22,590 S4: I think one of the things we see the church 392 00:22:22,670 --> 00:22:27,350 S4: do a lot is battle this instinct, this sense of 393 00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:29,949 S4: obligation to have all the answers. 394 00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:30,350 S1: Yes. 395 00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:33,060 S4: Like if someone comes to us in suffering, I need 396 00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:35,460 S4: to be able to explain it, and I have to 397 00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:37,820 S4: be able to tell them exactly what to do. Or 398 00:22:37,980 --> 00:22:40,060 S4: as a pastor, as a church leader, I'm not doing 399 00:22:40,060 --> 00:22:43,980 S4: my job. And what I would challenge that is to say, 400 00:22:44,540 --> 00:22:49,380 S4: maybe the first step is to listen and to have 401 00:22:49,380 --> 00:22:51,820 S4: the humility to say, maybe I don't know what you're 402 00:22:51,820 --> 00:22:55,380 S4: going through, but I can learn and I can support 403 00:22:55,380 --> 00:22:56,100 S4: you in it. 404 00:22:56,619 --> 00:23:00,220 S1: You say that theological platitudes and positive thinking aren't simply 405 00:23:00,220 --> 00:23:04,820 S1: dismissive to those who suffer, but they inevitably retraumatize the wounded. Now, 406 00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:07,380 S1: surely you're not suggesting there's no role at all for 407 00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:09,300 S1: sharing an appropriate word of Scripture, are you? 408 00:23:09,859 --> 00:23:12,700 S4: Absolutely not. And especially because I work in a church. Boy, 409 00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:16,100 S4: that would be bad, right? No, I think there is 410 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:18,820 S4: always a time for us to share the truth and 411 00:23:18,820 --> 00:23:24,139 S4: the love of God. Absolutely. My concern is when we 412 00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:28,220 S4: want to offer kind of a bumper sticker response or 413 00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:31,649 S4: the coffee mug verse. So we're just going to throw 414 00:23:31,690 --> 00:23:34,850 S4: that quick. Oh you just need to pray more or 415 00:23:34,890 --> 00:23:38,889 S4: oh just let go and let God. Right. Or just 416 00:23:38,890 --> 00:23:41,970 S4: trust that God's working all things for good. All of 417 00:23:41,970 --> 00:23:45,930 S4: those things are probably true, right? All of those scriptures, 418 00:23:45,930 --> 00:23:50,449 S4: they all count. And at the same time, the right 419 00:23:50,490 --> 00:23:55,609 S4: word at the wrong time risks being the wrong response. Yeah. 420 00:23:55,650 --> 00:23:58,930 S4: And so we need to be sensitive to where is 421 00:23:58,930 --> 00:24:03,530 S4: this person right now. What do they need from me 422 00:24:03,570 --> 00:24:08,690 S4: right now instead of trying to throw that quick response 423 00:24:08,690 --> 00:24:11,730 S4: that makes us sound super spiritual and makes us sound 424 00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:15,490 S4: like we got all the answers. Maybe we just need 425 00:24:15,490 --> 00:24:18,250 S4: to be able to say, I don't know. Yeah. 426 00:24:18,930 --> 00:24:20,970 S1: Well, in the moment we've got left, would you just 427 00:24:20,970 --> 00:24:24,169 S1: walk us through a step or two further in bringing 428 00:24:24,170 --> 00:24:27,210 S1: comfort to somebody in the ashes? What could we do? 429 00:24:27,530 --> 00:24:32,120 S4: Absolutely. So I offer in the book three steps that 430 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,919 S4: we as the church and then even we as individual 431 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,160 S4: believers can help bring to someone who is going through 432 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,679 S4: a season of suffering. The first is to provide a 433 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,000 S4: place of safety. And that means physical safety, emotional spiritual safety, 434 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,399 S4: making sure that this person is in a good, safe place. 435 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,679 S4: The second is to provide them with a place to 436 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,400 S4: share their story. Everybody wants to be listened to, right? 437 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,000 S4: Everybody wants to know that there is a place where 438 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000 S4: they can talk about what they're going through without judgment, 439 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,000 S4: without feeling bad for the way they're already feeling. And 440 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,320 S4: then the third is a place of community, right. That 441 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,600 S4: we can be very intentional about creating spaces where people belong, 442 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,080 S4: where people know they're welcome, where people know that they 443 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,119 S4: can be a part and join with us even if 444 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,119 S4: they're still in the ashes. Even if life hasn't worked 445 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,240 S4: everything out yet, that they're still welcome and we would 446 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,750 S4: still love to be with them. 447 00:25:27,790 --> 00:25:29,990 S1: Boy, that is great content. And there's a whole lot 448 00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:34,070 S1: more in Michelle's book, comfort in the ashes. You've enjoyed 449 00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:36,630 S1: this interview as you've listened. I'm sure you'll love the book. 450 00:25:36,670 --> 00:25:38,870 S1: A link to that at our website. The land and 451 00:25:38,869 --> 00:25:42,510 S1: the book. Michelle, you've got to come back and visit 452 00:25:42,510 --> 00:25:43,830 S1: with us again. Would you do that? 453 00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:46,510 S4: Anytime you let me know and I will be here. 454 00:25:46,550 --> 00:25:48,470 S1: All right. We'll look forward to that. But right now, 455 00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:51,070 S1: it's a visit with Gerald Peterman, who answers your Bible 456 00:25:51,070 --> 00:26:07,550 S1: questions next on the land and the book. Let's be honest, 457 00:26:07,550 --> 00:26:10,230 S1: when it comes to reading and studying our Bibles, questions 458 00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:14,350 S1: come easily. Answers are not so easily. This is the 459 00:26:14,350 --> 00:26:17,030 S1: land and the book. I'm John Gager, and that's why 460 00:26:17,030 --> 00:26:19,669 S1: we dedicate this third segment to taking a look at 461 00:26:19,670 --> 00:26:22,910 S1: not just any questions, but your questions. Questions that you've 462 00:26:22,910 --> 00:26:25,710 S1: puzzled over as you're reading through Scripture. So glad you've 463 00:26:25,710 --> 00:26:28,379 S1: decided to hang out with us today. And I have 464 00:26:28,380 --> 00:26:30,780 S1: a question as we start things off, though, with our 465 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:34,260 S1: Bible expert guy, Doctor Gerald Peterman. Do you know that 466 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:37,460 S1: most Jewish people have never heard the gospel? And you know, Jerry, 467 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:41,060 S1: every week we talk about Israel and the Jewish people, 468 00:26:41,380 --> 00:26:44,300 S1: and it's so important to remember that they, like everybody else, 469 00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:45,700 S1: need to hear the good news, right? 470 00:26:45,740 --> 00:26:49,540 S5: That's so right. Yes, indeed. Life in Messiah, a ministry 471 00:26:49,540 --> 00:26:52,780 S5: in existence for over 135 years, is devoted to sharing 472 00:26:52,780 --> 00:26:56,260 S5: the gospel with Jewish people around the world. Now they're 473 00:26:56,300 --> 00:27:00,100 S5: offering a gift to many listeners. This free e-book, Reaching 474 00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:03,260 S5: Jewish People for Messiah, highlights the need for the gospel 475 00:27:03,260 --> 00:27:06,460 S5: among the Jewish people and will equip you with practical 476 00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:08,740 S5: ways to share the Good News with them. To receive 477 00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:13,580 S5: this free e-book, visit Messiah. Click on the Moody Radio 478 00:27:13,619 --> 00:27:16,620 S5: logo and sign up today to get your copy. 479 00:27:16,780 --> 00:27:19,420 S1: All right. Thanks, Jerry. Let's get to Shaun's question. He 480 00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:22,899 S1: kicks things off, asking how many resurrections are there in 481 00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:26,410 S1: the future? As in the past, there were resurrections in 482 00:27:26,410 --> 00:27:29,010 S1: the Old Testament and New Testament, he says, and our 483 00:27:29,010 --> 00:27:32,490 S1: Lord Jesus resurrection is past. So how many resurrections are 484 00:27:32,490 --> 00:27:33,850 S1: there in the future? 485 00:27:34,130 --> 00:27:37,650 S5: Well, according to Paul, in first Thessalonians four verses 16 486 00:27:37,650 --> 00:27:40,930 S5: and 17, there will be a rapture when the Lord returns. 487 00:27:41,369 --> 00:27:44,369 S5: Paul says, the Lord will descend from heaven, and the 488 00:27:44,369 --> 00:27:47,290 S5: dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are 489 00:27:47,290 --> 00:27:49,729 S5: alive and are left will be caught up together to 490 00:27:49,770 --> 00:27:53,010 S5: meet them in the clouds, in the air. That makes 491 00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:57,330 S5: one resurrection. Then we go to the book of Revelation. 492 00:27:57,650 --> 00:28:01,890 S5: When the tribulation starts, there'll be a seven year tribulation 493 00:28:01,930 --> 00:28:05,490 S5: after the tribulation. We find the story of the Millennial Kingdom. 494 00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:09,129 S5: Revelation 20 mentions a resurrection at the beginning of the 495 00:28:09,130 --> 00:28:13,450 S5: Millennial Kingdom that makes two. And then revelation 20 says, 496 00:28:13,450 --> 00:28:15,370 S5: the rest of the dead will not come to life 497 00:28:15,369 --> 00:28:19,290 S5: until after the thousand years are completed. That makes three. 498 00:28:19,330 --> 00:28:21,970 S1: All right. The answer is three. I hope that's helpful. 499 00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:24,510 S1: And here's a question from a listener who is studying 500 00:28:24,510 --> 00:28:28,070 S1: Psalm 71. In verse nine it says, do not cast 501 00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:31,310 S1: me off in the time of old age. Forsake me 502 00:28:31,310 --> 00:28:34,830 S1: not when my strength is spent. The listener says, this 503 00:28:34,830 --> 00:28:37,590 S1: has got me to thinking. Besides David, in a middle 504 00:28:37,630 --> 00:28:41,950 S1: age crisis with Bathsheba, King Solomon falling away to idolatry 505 00:28:41,950 --> 00:28:46,550 S1: and King Asa's losing trust in God referenced in second Chronicles, 506 00:28:46,590 --> 00:28:49,150 S1: are there any other great men of the Bible that 507 00:28:49,150 --> 00:28:51,590 S1: fell away from God in their older age? 508 00:28:51,630 --> 00:28:55,350 S5: Oh, this has got me pondering and wondering if other 509 00:28:55,350 --> 00:29:02,030 S5: candidates will be on the list. Uh, I'm thinking of Hezekiah. Now, earlier, uh, 510 00:29:02,030 --> 00:29:04,310 S5: he was doing a really good job. But then later 511 00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:08,310 S5: in life, we read in Two Kings chapter 20 that Merodach-baladan, 512 00:29:08,510 --> 00:29:13,230 S5: son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent envoys and letters 513 00:29:13,230 --> 00:29:15,670 S5: and a present to King Hezekiah. And then you know 514 00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:19,790 S5: what happened, that when these men came from Babylon, King 515 00:29:19,790 --> 00:29:23,940 S5: Hezekiah showed them everything in his armoury showed them everything 516 00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:26,380 S5: in his palace. And that was a very foolish move. 517 00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:30,300 S5: And the prophet then came and rebuked him for this, saying, 518 00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:37,300 S5: you have done something foolish. Um, so then, uh, Hezekiah 519 00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:41,220 S5: spoke to Isaiah the prophet I just mentioned. Um, the 520 00:29:41,220 --> 00:29:43,660 S5: word of the Lord you have spoken is good for 521 00:29:43,660 --> 00:29:47,060 S5: Hezekiah thought, why not? If there'll be peace and security 522 00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:49,620 S5: in my days? Oh, it should be okay, he says, 523 00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:51,900 S5: if there's peace and security in my days. This is 524 00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:54,900 S5: not the attitude he had earlier in life, you know. 525 00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:58,060 S5: Now he seems to be thinking, as long as I'm okay, 526 00:29:58,260 --> 00:29:59,300 S5: we're all okay. 527 00:29:59,340 --> 00:30:01,100 S1: Yeah. Not a forward looking response. 528 00:30:01,140 --> 00:30:03,460 S5: Not a oh, that's a great way of putting it. 529 00:30:03,460 --> 00:30:05,940 S5: This is not a forward looking response. 530 00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:08,460 S1: Now, if I'm not mistaken, all of this happens after 531 00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:10,860 S1: he has been told, hey, you've got a fatal illness 532 00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:12,739 S1: or you're going to get ready to die, right? And 533 00:30:12,740 --> 00:30:15,100 S1: then Hezekiah pleads for his life and God says, I'm 534 00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:16,380 S1: going to extend that. 535 00:30:16,420 --> 00:30:19,140 S5: And Hezekiah turns his face against the wall. He pleads 536 00:30:19,140 --> 00:30:22,450 S5: with God. He weeps. And then Isaiah, who's actually in 537 00:30:22,450 --> 00:30:24,810 S5: the middle of doing something else, is then sent back 538 00:30:24,810 --> 00:30:26,530 S5: to him. Go back and tell him, I'm going to 539 00:30:26,570 --> 00:30:30,650 S5: extend your life for 15 years. So after getting such 540 00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:34,130 S5: a tremendous grace from God, he then has this kind 541 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:36,890 S5: of quirky, I would say, pretty much bad attitude later 542 00:30:36,890 --> 00:30:37,570 S5: in life. 543 00:30:37,850 --> 00:30:39,450 S1: You know, I have often wondered if you were to 544 00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:42,209 S1: interview him now or in heaven. It might be an 545 00:30:42,210 --> 00:30:46,490 S1: uncomfortable question, but what would his response be to the question, 546 00:30:46,850 --> 00:30:48,610 S1: had you to do it all over again? Would you 547 00:30:48,610 --> 00:30:51,050 S1: have not asked to have your life extended, knowing that 548 00:30:51,050 --> 00:30:52,730 S1: that other failure was going to come with it? 549 00:30:52,770 --> 00:30:54,770 S5: Oh, I don't know. I hate to second guess, but 550 00:30:54,770 --> 00:30:57,650 S5: I think the answer would be yes. I'd rather. Let 551 00:30:57,650 --> 00:31:00,690 S5: me paraphrase it like I'm speaking for Hezekiah. I'd rather 552 00:31:00,690 --> 00:31:02,810 S5: obey God than have a longer life. 553 00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:05,290 S1: Yeah, I do too. This is the land and the 554 00:31:05,290 --> 00:31:08,130 S1: book from Moody Radio. Doctor Gerald Peterman, who serves on 555 00:31:08,130 --> 00:31:11,130 S1: the Moody Bible Institute faculty, is with us in the studio, 556 00:31:11,130 --> 00:31:14,650 S1: and he welcomes your questions online at The Land and 557 00:31:14,650 --> 00:31:18,530 S1: the Book at Moody's. Again, you got to email those 558 00:31:18,530 --> 00:31:24,840 S1: questions to the land and the book at Moody's. Marcia 559 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,880 S1: was reading in second Samuel eight, and she points out 560 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,000 S1: that verse 18 says at the end, David's sons were priests. 561 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,400 S1: She says, I was surprised because priests do not come 562 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,600 S1: from the tribe of Judah. David's tribe. And I don't 563 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,960 S1: believe I've ever heard of them being priests. Can you 564 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,520 S1: explain this to me, Marcia? 565 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,000 S5: Brings a tough question. Different Bible scholars give different answers 566 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,080 S5: to the question, as you might imagine. Some say David's 567 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,000 S5: sons functioned as priests even though it was wrong for 568 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,360 S5: them to do so. And they say the author of 569 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,040 S5: two Samuel just mentions it and doesn't tell us what 570 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,000 S5: was wrong. Well, I don't think so. Some other scholars 571 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,640 S5: say David and his sons were priests according to the 572 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,280 S5: order of Melchizedek. Well, actually, we don't find this order 573 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,560 S5: mentioned in first and second Samuel. Oh, by the way, 574 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,640 S5: it's mentioned in Psalm 110. So my solution is the 575 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:19,830 S5: term priests was sometimes used for civil servants as opposed 576 00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:23,190 S5: to religious servants. Okay. There's a close parallel to this 577 00:32:23,510 --> 00:32:27,870 S5: in First Chronicles 1817, where you find something very similar 578 00:32:27,870 --> 00:32:31,670 S5: to the passage that Marcia was reading. Although the chronicler 579 00:32:31,710 --> 00:32:35,950 S5: then says David's three sons were listed as chief officials. 580 00:32:36,510 --> 00:32:37,590 S5: I hope that helps. 581 00:32:37,630 --> 00:32:41,510 S1: Okay. I do too. Charles takes us to Nehemiah chapter two, 582 00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:44,270 S1: which tells of the time that Nehemiah was sad in 583 00:32:44,270 --> 00:32:47,670 S1: the king's presence and made known his desire to return 584 00:32:47,670 --> 00:32:51,790 S1: to Judah to help rebuild the walls. Verse six parenthetically 585 00:32:51,790 --> 00:32:55,390 S1: includes the fact that, quote, the queen was sitting beside 586 00:32:55,390 --> 00:32:58,469 S1: the king. What would be the significance of that fact? 587 00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:59,350 S1: Charles wonders. 588 00:32:59,350 --> 00:33:03,350 S5: I'm thinking, Charles, for reading carefully and wondering why was 589 00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:08,150 S5: the Queen sitting there? Yeah, that's very important because typically 590 00:33:08,150 --> 00:33:10,110 S5: when the Kings go about doing their job, they are 591 00:33:10,110 --> 00:33:13,590 S5: running so low. When the king and queen are together, 592 00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:18,500 S5: it's an official business. This is a public presentation. Maybe 593 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:21,900 S5: there's some sort of entourage of people there. And so 594 00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:26,660 S5: this means that when Nehemiah is seen as sad in 595 00:33:26,660 --> 00:33:29,340 S5: the king's presence with the queen there, it's a very 596 00:33:29,340 --> 00:33:33,420 S5: public event. And then it's even more astounding to me 597 00:33:33,420 --> 00:33:36,820 S5: that then he prays secretly to his God and then 598 00:33:36,820 --> 00:33:40,660 S5: brings up this question. Oh, I think that's just courageous 599 00:33:40,660 --> 00:33:41,780 S5: on Nehemiah's part. 600 00:33:42,380 --> 00:33:45,540 S1: Here's a question why does it seem that men in 601 00:33:45,540 --> 00:33:49,340 S1: churches today, in their latter years, seem to fall away? 602 00:33:49,460 --> 00:33:52,860 S1: Is it pride, or are they thinking they know it all? 603 00:33:53,060 --> 00:33:55,500 S1: Or is it the feeling that God has forsaken them 604 00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:58,100 S1: because they're moving on in life, just aging out? 605 00:33:58,460 --> 00:34:01,180 S5: That's a great question. I'm sad to hear from this 606 00:34:01,180 --> 00:34:04,140 S5: listener that this is this listener's experience, that many older 607 00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:06,820 S5: men are falling away from the faith or not attending 608 00:34:06,820 --> 00:34:10,420 S5: church anymore. That's not been my experience, my experience in 609 00:34:10,420 --> 00:34:13,339 S5: the congregation where I've been. Thanks be to God is 610 00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:16,410 S5: the older men are hanging in there. They're attending church 611 00:34:16,410 --> 00:34:19,690 S5: in their 90s and they are faithful. But to answer 612 00:34:19,690 --> 00:34:23,850 S5: the question, yes, I think sometimes when we get older, 613 00:34:23,850 --> 00:34:26,210 S5: we begin to get prideful. When we get older, we 614 00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:28,970 S5: think we're wiser. We begin to kind of take it easy, 615 00:34:28,969 --> 00:34:32,049 S5: and when we get older we get, uh, maybe we 616 00:34:32,050 --> 00:34:34,649 S5: have aches or pains. And we're thinking attending church is 617 00:34:34,650 --> 00:34:35,970 S5: not that important. 618 00:34:36,010 --> 00:34:37,770 S1: It could be any number of factors, is what you're saying. 619 00:34:37,770 --> 00:34:40,050 S5: It could be any number of factors. Yeah. 620 00:34:40,570 --> 00:34:43,009 S1: All right. Here's one from Melissa. She's wondering about the 621 00:34:43,010 --> 00:34:46,690 S1: claim that there are no tears in heaven. If we 622 00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:49,570 S1: have loved ones, she says, who will not accept Jesus 623 00:34:49,570 --> 00:34:52,810 S1: as their Savior here? How can there be no tears 624 00:34:52,810 --> 00:34:54,969 S1: in heaven, but we just forget them when we get 625 00:34:54,969 --> 00:34:58,050 S1: to heaven? She says, I've prayed and continued to pray 626 00:34:58,050 --> 00:35:00,730 S1: that their hearts will soften and will one day come 627 00:35:00,730 --> 00:35:03,850 S1: to know Jesus, but it seems like an unbearable thing 628 00:35:03,890 --> 00:35:06,890 S1: to be in heaven without them. I've wondered about this too. 629 00:35:07,330 --> 00:35:10,009 S5: Yes, this is a very important question, and I was 630 00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:13,450 S5: deeply touched by the compassion you hear in this question. 631 00:35:13,890 --> 00:35:16,830 S5: If we have a family member, if we have a 632 00:35:16,830 --> 00:35:19,509 S5: close friend who doesn't know Christ, it hurts us. It 633 00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:23,870 S5: hurt Paul. Read Romans nine. I don't have a particular passage. 634 00:35:23,870 --> 00:35:26,509 S5: I don't have a particular verse that addresses this. But 635 00:35:26,510 --> 00:35:29,069 S5: what I do know is that when we're in the 636 00:35:29,070 --> 00:35:31,230 S5: new heaven and the new earth, when we have our 637 00:35:31,230 --> 00:35:35,350 S5: new body, we will have been transformed. We will no 638 00:35:35,350 --> 00:35:37,710 S5: longer have a sinful nature, and we're going to be 639 00:35:37,710 --> 00:35:39,509 S5: in the presence of God. And we're going to, thanks 640 00:35:39,550 --> 00:35:42,830 S5: be to God, see our Lord Jesus face to face. 641 00:35:42,989 --> 00:35:46,149 S5: And our whole perspective on the world and our whole 642 00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:49,710 S5: perspective on our existence is just going to be radically transformed. 643 00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:52,509 S5: So I think at this point, we're going to be 644 00:35:52,510 --> 00:35:56,189 S5: able to trust God with our lost family members in 645 00:35:56,190 --> 00:35:59,110 S5: ways we could never trust him while we were on earth. 646 00:35:59,150 --> 00:36:00,710 S1: And I would add two things. And I wonder if 647 00:36:00,710 --> 00:36:03,750 S1: you could confirm or maybe correct one in heaven. We 648 00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:06,989 S1: will finally have a fully correct sense of the justice 649 00:36:06,989 --> 00:36:10,229 S1: of God. We will not be as likely to quote 650 00:36:10,270 --> 00:36:12,629 S1: blame him as we feel free to do now. And 651 00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:15,460 S1: number two, We will be so in love with Jesus, 652 00:36:15,780 --> 00:36:17,180 S1: it will overshadow everything. 653 00:36:17,219 --> 00:36:20,660 S5: Absolutely. Having a better insight into the justice of God. 654 00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:23,620 S5: Because these days, many times we complain because we think 655 00:36:23,620 --> 00:36:27,980 S5: God isn't just yes. And being so in love with 656 00:36:27,980 --> 00:36:30,980 S5: Jesus and receiving his love in heaven. Everything else is 657 00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:32,500 S5: just going to be washed away. 658 00:36:32,540 --> 00:36:34,420 S1: Hey. Our email address for you to get your question 659 00:36:34,420 --> 00:36:38,420 S1: to Doctor Peterman is the land and the book at Moody. 660 00:36:39,580 --> 00:36:41,819 S1: Hope to hear from you. And Charlie Dyer is back 661 00:36:41,820 --> 00:36:57,660 S1: with his devotional next. That's right here. Appreciate your company 662 00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:59,620 S1: here at the land and the book. Always fun to 663 00:36:59,620 --> 00:37:02,259 S1: have you. Part of the broadcast. I'm John Geiger with 664 00:37:02,260 --> 00:37:05,540 S1: our host, Charlie Dyer. You know, Charlie riots, you think 665 00:37:05,540 --> 00:37:09,260 S1: about riots, an out of control crowd. Absolutely. Never fun 666 00:37:09,260 --> 00:37:13,410 S1: and always scary. But riots are nothing new. In fact, 667 00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:15,529 S1: you'll find accounts of several of them in Scripture. And 668 00:37:15,530 --> 00:37:18,209 S1: I think that's where we're headed with today's devotional. 669 00:37:18,410 --> 00:37:20,730 S2: It is absolutely. We're going to head to the temple 670 00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:22,570 S2: at Pentecost and see a riot. 671 00:37:22,610 --> 00:37:25,330 S1: Okay. I think I'll look forward to that. But before 672 00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:28,290 S1: we get there, let's pause for a Holy Land experience. 673 00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:30,650 S1: Listen to this testimony from an Israel traveler. 674 00:37:34,730 --> 00:37:38,410 S6: I went to Israel in 1997 with a group of 675 00:37:38,410 --> 00:37:44,290 S6: Messianic Jews, and when we were on the Mount of Olives, 676 00:37:44,810 --> 00:37:48,290 S6: the rabbi who was with us, the messianic rabbi, would 677 00:37:48,290 --> 00:37:51,570 S6: always give a lesson from the Bible at each spot 678 00:37:51,570 --> 00:37:55,410 S6: that we stopped at. And after he gave the lesson, 679 00:37:55,410 --> 00:37:57,890 S6: we were to separate from each other and go find 680 00:37:57,890 --> 00:38:00,969 S6: a quiet place and pray. And I felt like the 681 00:38:00,969 --> 00:38:03,489 S6: Lord was saying to me as I was looking at 682 00:38:03,489 --> 00:38:08,690 S6: these olive trees, these olives are not very valuable. Just 683 00:38:08,690 --> 00:38:14,000 S6: being olives. But when they're squeezed and the oil comes out, 684 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:20,440 S6: that is valuable. It brings healing. Are you willing to 685 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:25,440 S6: be squeezed so that that oil can bring healing to others? 686 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,560 S6: And of course, in the years to come, I was 687 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,480 S6: squeezed very much. And I'm glad that the Lord gave 688 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,799 S6: me that, because I always reflect on that and know 689 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,280 S6: that he was preparing me and he was testing me. 690 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,200 S6: And so sometimes those kind of things happen in a 691 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,800 S6: place like Israel. So I just wanted to share that. 692 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,600 S6: And thank you very much for your program. 693 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:51,960 S1: Always great to hear from folks who've been to the 694 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,040 S1: Holy Land and walk away forever changed with stories like 695 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,160 S1: you just heard. All right, Charlie, let's turn it over 696 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,759 S1: to you for today's devotional. 697 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,800 S2: Thanks, John. Yeah. This Sunday is the Jewish feast of Shavuot, 698 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,160 S2: the celebration we know as the day of Pentecost. Though 699 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,990 S2: in a strange quirk of scheduling, the church actually celebrates 700 00:39:09,989 --> 00:39:13,110 S2: Pentecost a week later on June 8th. But our journey 701 00:39:13,110 --> 00:39:17,149 S2: today takes us to Jerusalem to celebrate Shavuot. But not 702 00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:21,790 S2: in 2025. We're heading to Jerusalem in the spring of A.D. 57, 703 00:39:21,989 --> 00:39:25,189 S2: 14 years after the resurrection of Jesus and the birth 704 00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:27,910 S2: of the church. As one of the three annual feasts 705 00:39:27,910 --> 00:39:30,870 S2: when Jews were expected to appear before the Lord, the 706 00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:34,830 S2: temple indeed the entire city is wall to wall people. 707 00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:37,510 S2: Now keep a close look out, because somewhere in this 708 00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:40,989 S2: mass of humanity is the Apostle Paul. But I'm getting 709 00:39:40,989 --> 00:39:43,950 S2: ahead of myself. So let's gather over here in the 710 00:39:43,950 --> 00:39:46,390 S2: far corner of the court of the Gentiles, next to 711 00:39:46,430 --> 00:39:49,629 S2: this stairway that leads up to the Roman fortress of Antonia. 712 00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:52,190 S2: And I'll try to bring you up to date. Several 713 00:39:52,190 --> 00:39:55,390 S2: weeks ago, Paul was traveling from Corinth back to Jerusalem 714 00:39:55,390 --> 00:39:58,270 S2: at the end of his third missionary journey. Paul stopped 715 00:39:58,270 --> 00:40:01,109 S2: off in Philippi to celebrate Passover and the Feast of 716 00:40:01,110 --> 00:40:04,870 S2: Unleavened Bread before continuing. He then visited with the believers 717 00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:07,630 S2: in Troas for seven days. And that's where he raised 718 00:40:07,739 --> 00:40:10,460 S2: Eutychus from the dead on a Sunday night service to 719 00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:13,339 S2: be remembered. It's the service where Paul spoke to the 720 00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:16,220 S2: church all night because he planned to leave the next day. 721 00:40:16,540 --> 00:40:19,140 S2: A few days later, Paul docked in Miletus and sent 722 00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:22,299 S2: for the elders of Ephesus. They probably expected him to 723 00:40:22,340 --> 00:40:24,580 S2: spend some time in the city because of all the 724 00:40:24,580 --> 00:40:27,379 S2: time he'd spent there before. But Paul was a man 725 00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:29,339 S2: on a mission. He said he was in a hurry 726 00:40:29,340 --> 00:40:33,339 S2: to reach Jerusalem, if possible. By Shavuot, which was now 727 00:40:33,380 --> 00:40:36,580 S2: less than a month away. Amazingly, Paul made it to 728 00:40:36,620 --> 00:40:40,140 S2: Jerusalem with just over a week to spare. The leaders 729 00:40:40,140 --> 00:40:42,500 S2: of the church in Jerusalem asked Paul to demonstrate his 730 00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:45,820 S2: commitment to God and His Word by paying the expenses 731 00:40:45,820 --> 00:40:49,820 S2: for four individuals about to complete a Nazarite vow. And 732 00:40:49,820 --> 00:40:52,220 S2: that brings us to where we are today. The crowds 733 00:40:52,219 --> 00:40:54,739 S2: are pressing in on every side, but somewhere in this 734 00:40:54,739 --> 00:40:58,100 S2: mass of people is the Apostle Paul. He's been coming 735 00:40:58,100 --> 00:41:00,779 S2: to the temple every single day, between the celebration of 736 00:41:00,780 --> 00:41:03,819 S2: Shavuot and the preparation for helping these men fulfill their 737 00:41:03,820 --> 00:41:06,700 S2: Nazarite vow. Paul has been a man on the move, 738 00:41:06,810 --> 00:41:09,530 S2: and that's probably good, because there are a large number 739 00:41:09,530 --> 00:41:11,930 S2: of people in this crowd who would like nothing better 740 00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:15,850 S2: than to cause him harm. Their hatred of Paul is visceral, 741 00:41:15,850 --> 00:41:18,810 S2: and that's why. Wait a minute. Do you hear all 742 00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:21,489 S2: that noise coming from beyond the wall there inside the 743 00:41:21,489 --> 00:41:24,050 S2: temple court? There seems to be some sort of an uproar, 744 00:41:24,050 --> 00:41:27,290 S2: but I can't tell if it's revelry or a riot. Look, 745 00:41:27,290 --> 00:41:29,890 S2: here comes a large crowd streaming out of the gate 746 00:41:29,890 --> 00:41:32,410 S2: there on the north side, and the gates being slammed 747 00:41:32,410 --> 00:41:35,410 S2: shut behind them. What are they saying? And who is 748 00:41:35,410 --> 00:41:38,770 S2: it that they seem to be dragging along? It looks like. 749 00:41:38,810 --> 00:41:41,850 S2: Yes it is. It's the Apostle Paul. The crowd's starting 750 00:41:41,850 --> 00:41:44,250 S2: to get ugly. So let's work our way closer to 751 00:41:44,290 --> 00:41:47,009 S2: the exit, just in case we don't want to get 752 00:41:47,010 --> 00:41:50,089 S2: trapped in here. If Roman soldiers come swooping down that 753 00:41:50,090 --> 00:41:53,450 S2: stairway from the fortress of Antonia. And look out! Here 754 00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:56,770 S2: they come! Thankfully, the rioters have also spotted them and 755 00:41:56,770 --> 00:41:59,969 S2: stopped beating Paul. It looks like he's going to be rescued. 756 00:42:00,530 --> 00:42:02,850 S2: I'll bet when you came here for Pentecost, you never 757 00:42:02,850 --> 00:42:05,759 S2: expected to see a riot, did you? This might be 758 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,279 S2: a good time to slip away, except the crowd seems 759 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,000 S2: to be quieting down. Look, Paul, standing there on the 760 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,640 S2: steps leading up to the fortress, and he's surrounded by soldiers. 761 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,839 S2: He's starting to speak to the crowd. So let's listen 762 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,480 S2: to what he has to say. He's speaking in Aramaic, 763 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,640 S2: so I'll try to translate. He's telling about himself and 764 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,359 S2: his religious upbringing. He just said he was trained under Gamaliel. 765 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,000 S2: I see some in the crowd starting to nod their approval. 766 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,080 S2: And now he's talking about how Jesus appeared to him 767 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,440 S2: on the road to Damascus. He just said Jesus appeared 768 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,959 S2: to him again when he returned to Jerusalem and was 769 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,040 S2: praying here in the temple. And oh, the riot starting again! 770 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,160 S2: Paul just said Jesus had sent him to the Gentiles, 771 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,799 S2: and that's all this crowd needed to hear. They're now 772 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,000 S2: saying he's not fit to live and that they should 773 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,279 S2: rid the earth of him. It's a good thing the 774 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,719 S2: Roman soldiers have him in custody, or I think that 775 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,240 S2: mob would have killed him right on the spot. Let's 776 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,760 S2: slip out of here while we can. Well, the events 777 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,380 S2: on this Pentecost are certainly different from those 14 years ago. 778 00:43:04,860 --> 00:43:07,820 S2: Or are they? Back then, Peter was the one preaching 779 00:43:07,860 --> 00:43:10,940 S2: to those gathered in the temple. This time it's Paul. 780 00:43:11,219 --> 00:43:13,660 S2: But the message is basically the same in the sense 781 00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:17,180 S2: that the focus is on Jesus and on obedience to him. 782 00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:20,219 S2: There wasn't a mob response back when Peter preached, but 783 00:43:20,219 --> 00:43:23,500 S2: it soon followed. In fact, Paul, who was called Saul 784 00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:26,380 S2: at the time, was with the crowd who stoned Stephen 785 00:43:26,380 --> 00:43:29,180 S2: to death. I know none of this should surprise us 786 00:43:29,180 --> 00:43:32,580 S2: too much. There always seems to be a visceral reaction 787 00:43:32,580 --> 00:43:35,819 S2: when the claims of Jesus are presented. Some respond in 788 00:43:35,820 --> 00:43:39,420 S2: faith and placed their trust in him, but others react violently, 789 00:43:39,420 --> 00:43:42,620 S2: rejecting the message and even trying to harm the messenger. 790 00:43:42,980 --> 00:43:46,420 S2: And yet, the message keeps being proclaimed. On the original 791 00:43:46,420 --> 00:43:49,060 S2: day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out on 792 00:43:49,060 --> 00:43:52,660 S2: all the followers of Jesus. By the time today's riot 793 00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:56,180 S2: rolled around, tens of thousands had responded in faith to 794 00:43:56,219 --> 00:43:58,900 S2: that same message, and they were also empowered by the 795 00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:02,540 S2: Holy Spirit and became witnesses to Jesus. Well, it's time 796 00:44:02,540 --> 00:44:04,970 S2: for us to head back home from the temple. I 797 00:44:04,969 --> 00:44:07,810 S2: doubt if you will ever forget the scene you just witnessed. 798 00:44:08,010 --> 00:44:10,810 S2: But more than just memories of a riot, I'd really 799 00:44:10,810 --> 00:44:13,649 S2: like you to carry away one key lesson from the 800 00:44:13,650 --> 00:44:17,410 S2: scene that unfolded. The lesson is the importance of courage. 801 00:44:17,610 --> 00:44:20,010 S2: It took courage for Paul to go to the temple 802 00:44:20,010 --> 00:44:23,450 S2: in the first place. All along his journey to Jerusalem, 803 00:44:23,450 --> 00:44:26,730 S2: Paul was warned that chains and prison awaited him. But 804 00:44:26,730 --> 00:44:29,730 S2: Paul kept going. And then when he was attacked by 805 00:44:29,730 --> 00:44:32,570 S2: the mob and rescued by the soldiers, instead of letting 806 00:44:32,570 --> 00:44:35,810 S2: them carry him away to safety, Paul asked to address 807 00:44:35,810 --> 00:44:38,410 S2: the very mob that had tried to kill him. He 808 00:44:38,450 --> 00:44:41,530 S2: definitely had courage. Now we live in a day when 809 00:44:41,570 --> 00:44:44,650 S2: keeping a low profile and getting along with the crowd 810 00:44:44,650 --> 00:44:49,569 S2: is considered wise advice. But maybe, maybe it's time for 811 00:44:49,570 --> 00:44:52,609 S2: us to stand boldly for the Lord and share the 812 00:44:52,610 --> 00:44:55,529 S2: message the world needs to hear, even if it's not 813 00:44:55,530 --> 00:44:59,170 S2: the one they want to hear. On his way to Jerusalem, 814 00:44:59,170 --> 00:45:02,880 S2: Paul said this to the elders at Ephesus in Acts 2020. 815 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,560 S2: You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything 816 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,839 S2: that would be helpful to you, but have taught you 817 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,040 S2: publicly and from house to house. And we talk about 818 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,800 S2: 2020 vision. But maybe as believers, what we need today 819 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,880 S2: is the acts 20, verse 20, courage displayed by Paul. 820 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,560 S2: Or as he put it, I have not hesitated. Paul 821 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,759 S2: made an impact, not just an impression, on everyone around him, 822 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,480 S2: because he was courageous in standing for the Lord. This 823 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,399 S2: day of Pentecost. Why not vow to stand courageously for 824 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,120 S2: the Lord where you live and work? I don't know 825 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,759 S2: if you'll cause a riot, but I do know you 826 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,000 S2: will make an impact for Jesus. 827 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,080 S1: Thank you, Charlie boy. That's really well said and impact 828 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,839 S1: for Jesus. I hope you want that too. You can 829 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,080 S1: always go back and hear this program in its entirety 830 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,239 S1: at our website. The land and the book. Org. Yeah, 831 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,320 S1: the podcast is always there for you and your friends. 832 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,150 S1: We appreciate when you're passing the word along to them 833 00:46:01,150 --> 00:46:04,950 S1: about this ministry. Also, your Bible questions are welcome. Doctor 834 00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:07,270 S1: Gerald Peterman is glad to take those. And we heard 835 00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:09,790 S1: him earlier. You can email us with your question at 836 00:46:09,830 --> 00:46:14,469 S1: the land and the book. That's the land and the 837 00:46:14,510 --> 00:46:18,310 S1: book at Moody's. Charlie, I think it's important for listeners 838 00:46:18,310 --> 00:46:21,149 S1: to know that this is a listener supported ministry. And 839 00:46:21,150 --> 00:46:23,470 S1: the fact of the matter is that so many stations 840 00:46:23,469 --> 00:46:25,709 S1: are just giving us airtime. We need to let them 841 00:46:25,710 --> 00:46:28,270 S1: know that this program is appreciated. Right? 842 00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:31,310 S2: Well, absolutely, John. In fact, you know, sending an email 843 00:46:31,310 --> 00:46:34,549 S2: or calling or even writing a letter as an encouragement 844 00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:37,109 S2: to the station and also a reminder to them that 845 00:46:37,110 --> 00:46:39,790 S2: this program is making an impact on people's lives. 846 00:46:39,790 --> 00:46:42,310 S1: So thanks for doing that. And thanks for hanging out 847 00:46:42,310 --> 00:46:44,950 S1: with us here at The Land and the book on 848 00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:48,230 S1: behalf of our producer, Dan Anderson, our host, Charlie Dyer, 849 00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:50,830 S1: I'm John Yeager, and the land and the book is 850 00:46:50,830 --> 00:46:54,910 S1: a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.