1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,200 S1: Jesus was born to a simple peasant woman and her 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,720 S1: carpenter husband. The first people who took the time to 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,560 S1: find him were not kings or queens or celebrities. No, 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,280 S1: they were working class shepherds who were out on the 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,160 S1: night shift. Welcome to the land and the book with 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,120 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, author, speaker, and Middle East expert. I'm 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,160 S1: John Gager, promising that if you listen to today's program, 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,320 S1: you're going to come away with a piece not just 9 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,240 S1: for the holidays, but for the entire New year. Well, 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,400 S1: despite that promise of peace, we do live in uncertain days. 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,519 S1: And in times like these, many people ask the big 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,519 S1: question Where is God? There are times when we as 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,360 S1: believers might start to wonder where God is and what 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,320 S1: he's doing. Uh, that's just the case, right, Charlie? 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,360 S2: You're exactly right, John. And that's why our friends at 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,080 S2: Life in Messiah have recently published a book addressing this issue. 17 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,750 S2: It's titled Where Is God in Fearful Times? Encouragement from Exodus. 18 00:01:01,030 --> 00:01:03,550 S2: The book is a study on Israel's ordeal in Egypt 19 00:01:03,550 --> 00:01:05,630 S2: and what we can learn from this to apply to 20 00:01:05,670 --> 00:01:08,950 S2: our circumstances. The lessons learned by the Jewish people in 21 00:01:08,950 --> 00:01:12,990 S2: Egypt are extremely relevant today. God hears your cry. He 22 00:01:13,030 --> 00:01:15,709 S2: cares for you, and he's working for your good and 23 00:01:15,709 --> 00:01:18,590 S2: his glory. A life in Messiah is now making this 24 00:01:18,590 --> 00:01:21,149 S2: book available for a limited time to the land. In 25 00:01:21,150 --> 00:01:24,150 S2: the book, listeners with a special deal to find out 26 00:01:24,150 --> 00:01:26,310 S2: how you can get a copy of this encouraging book 27 00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:28,790 S2: for yourself, or as a gift to share with others 28 00:01:28,790 --> 00:01:32,470 S2: who are struggling. Visit Life in Messiah org and click 29 00:01:32,470 --> 00:01:35,950 S2: on the radio icon. Now that's life in Messiah. 30 00:01:37,590 --> 00:01:39,830 S1: No question about our top story of the week, a 31 00:01:39,830 --> 00:01:43,150 S1: tragedy that has touched the world the Bondi Beach Massacre 32 00:01:43,150 --> 00:01:46,750 S1: in Australia. Charlie review exactly what happened and what are 33 00:01:46,750 --> 00:01:48,710 S1: we to make of this horrific event. 34 00:01:48,910 --> 00:01:51,990 S2: You know, well, the tragedy was horrific and sadly it 35 00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:56,070 S2: shouldn't have taken people by surprise. Two Islamic fundamentalists, a 36 00:01:56,070 --> 00:01:59,220 S2: father and a son took automatic weapons to Bondi Beach. 37 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:04,020 S2: Right as they began celebrating Hanukkah and just opened fire killing. 38 00:02:04,020 --> 00:02:08,460 S2: So far, 15 and more are in critical condition. Now, 39 00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:11,740 S2: for two years, countries like Australia, the United States and 40 00:02:11,740 --> 00:02:14,980 S2: others have allowed people to chant phrases like globalize the 41 00:02:14,980 --> 00:02:17,860 S2: intifada and from the river to the sea. Well, those 42 00:02:17,860 --> 00:02:21,620 S2: phrases are calls for Israel's destruction. And they were accompanied 43 00:02:21,620 --> 00:02:25,060 S2: by verbal attacks on anyone who's Jewish and on attempts 44 00:02:25,060 --> 00:02:27,420 S2: to force Jews out of the public arena. You know, 45 00:02:27,460 --> 00:02:30,660 S2: that's what was done in Germany in the 1930s. And 46 00:02:30,660 --> 00:02:34,220 S2: that was followed by attacks on synagogues, on Jewish businesses, 47 00:02:34,220 --> 00:02:37,100 S2: and on individual Jews who were doing nothing but walking 48 00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:40,459 S2: down the street. So why are people now shocked when 49 00:02:40,460 --> 00:02:43,859 S2: the hatred they've allowed to be expressed so vehemently results 50 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:47,740 S2: in such violence? These actions, John, they just need to stop. 51 00:02:47,740 --> 00:02:50,260 S2: And it needs to begin with all of us saying enough. 52 00:02:50,540 --> 00:02:53,940 S2: We need to openly take a stand against anti-Semitism, and 53 00:02:53,940 --> 00:02:57,210 S2: we need to support Israel's right to exist as a nation, 54 00:02:57,250 --> 00:02:59,490 S2: we need to let our voices be heard in in 55 00:02:59,490 --> 00:03:02,850 S2: letters to the editor and emails to government representatives and 56 00:03:02,850 --> 00:03:05,370 S2: in posts on social media. Now we try to do 57 00:03:05,370 --> 00:03:08,329 S2: that here, John, on this program, but that message needs 58 00:03:08,330 --> 00:03:10,609 S2: to be said loudly. It needs to be said often, 59 00:03:10,610 --> 00:03:12,769 S2: and it needs to be said by as many Christians 60 00:03:12,770 --> 00:03:13,690 S2: as possible. 61 00:03:14,330 --> 00:03:18,970 S1: Story number two. Last weekend, Storm Byron roared through Israel. 62 00:03:19,210 --> 00:03:21,930 S1: What impact did the storm have on the country? Positive 63 00:03:21,930 --> 00:03:22,810 S1: and negative. 64 00:03:23,090 --> 00:03:25,210 S2: Well, you know, the positive impact was all the rain 65 00:03:25,210 --> 00:03:27,850 S2: that fell throughout the country. It was followed by another 66 00:03:27,850 --> 00:03:30,930 S2: storm this past Monday and Tuesday that dumped additional rainfall, 67 00:03:30,970 --> 00:03:34,130 S2: though much less than Byron, a Jerusalem went from a 68 00:03:34,130 --> 00:03:37,930 S2: significant deficit to reach its expected year to date. Normal 69 00:03:37,930 --> 00:03:41,210 S2: rainfall total. Now, that's still less than 25% of what's 70 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:44,050 S2: normal for the year. But the heaviest rainfall months of 71 00:03:44,050 --> 00:03:47,930 S2: January and February are still to come. Israel's southwest coast 72 00:03:47,930 --> 00:03:51,970 S2: and Gaza received some of the heaviest rain. Ashkelon received 73 00:03:51,970 --> 00:03:55,770 S2: nearly 200% of its normal to date rainfall, and there 74 00:03:55,770 --> 00:03:58,760 S2: they're already over 60% of their expected total for the 75 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,640 S2: entire year. The rain and the flooding and the cold 76 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,760 S2: weather caused two deaths in Israel and 14 deaths in Gaza, 77 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,960 S2: and that included several children who died of hypothermia. And 78 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,640 S2: that's one of the sad results of this rain event. Now, 79 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,920 S2: less rain fell in the north, which means the storm 80 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,000 S2: had less of an impact on the Sea of Galilee 81 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,000 S2: than had been hoped. But thankfully, the water level there 82 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,040 S2: has already started rising. It's still about a foot below 83 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,480 S2: the lower red line, which is the lowest level they'd 84 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,000 S2: like it to be at. But the recent storms brought 85 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,200 S2: the level up several inches and it's continuing to rise. 86 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,400 S2: The desalinated seawater that's being pumped into the lake is 87 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,680 S2: also raising the level, but only about 2/10 of an 88 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,360 S2: inch per month. Now, that's not a huge amount, but 89 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,520 S2: every little bit helps. So the storm itself overall was 90 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,000 S2: a positive for the land, though there was some negative 91 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,240 S2: consequences with the flooding and the cold weather. 92 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,760 S1: Interesting. Well, expanding our focus to the northeast of Israel, 93 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,980 S1: there's a small strip of land in Armenia called the 94 00:04:54,980 --> 00:04:59,779 S1: Zangazur corridor that has the potential to reshape regional politics. 95 00:04:59,980 --> 00:05:01,940 S1: What do we need to know about the economic battle 96 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:03,940 S1: being waged in the Caucasus region? 97 00:05:04,220 --> 00:05:07,380 S2: Yeah, and Americans in general are just not good at geography. 98 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:09,100 S2: But this is one area we do need to pay 99 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:11,940 S2: attention to because it could impact future events in the 100 00:05:11,940 --> 00:05:15,380 S2: Middle East. Armenia and Azerbaijan have fought several wars in 101 00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:17,940 S2: this region, and part of the struggle focuses on the 102 00:05:17,940 --> 00:05:21,300 S2: ethnic and religious conflict between the two. But the conflict 103 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:25,620 S2: goes beyond just those differences. The Zangazur corridor, which is 104 00:05:25,620 --> 00:05:29,060 S2: in Armenia, is the shortest land corridor between the Black 105 00:05:29,060 --> 00:05:32,820 S2: and Caspian Seas or between Turkey and Azerbaijan, and it 106 00:05:32,820 --> 00:05:36,340 S2: provides a strategic connection point through the Caucasus Mountains in 107 00:05:36,380 --> 00:05:39,060 S2: that region. Now, Turkey sees the corridor as a way 108 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:43,460 S2: to connect Azerbaijan and the larger Turkic population groups east 109 00:05:43,460 --> 00:05:46,740 S2: of the Caspian Sea. At the same time, Russia has 110 00:05:46,740 --> 00:05:48,980 S2: an interest in the region and would like to dominate 111 00:05:48,980 --> 00:05:52,340 S2: it by supporting Armenia and influencing the smaller states in 112 00:05:52,339 --> 00:05:55,089 S2: the region that were once part of the Soviet Union. 113 00:05:55,250 --> 00:05:58,170 S2: Russia and Iran are also looking to intersect the region 114 00:05:58,170 --> 00:06:00,890 S2: with a key rail link connecting the two countries. They've 115 00:06:00,890 --> 00:06:03,169 S2: signed an agreement to build the link over the next 116 00:06:03,170 --> 00:06:05,849 S2: several years. Others see the corridor as a way to 117 00:06:05,890 --> 00:06:09,250 S2: blunt the influence of China's Belt and Road Initiative by 118 00:06:09,250 --> 00:06:11,970 S2: offering an alternative route for the transportation of oil and 119 00:06:11,970 --> 00:06:15,490 S2: other goods, as well as pipelines and fiber optic cables 120 00:06:15,490 --> 00:06:18,849 S2: that could connect Asia to Europe. Then, earlier this year, 121 00:06:18,850 --> 00:06:22,330 S2: the US brokered the so-called Trump Route for International Peace 122 00:06:22,330 --> 00:06:26,530 S2: and Prosperity, which granted the US exclusive development rights to 123 00:06:26,570 --> 00:06:31,130 S2: operate a corridor through Zangazur on commercial terms. Several companies 124 00:06:31,130 --> 00:06:34,410 S2: are negotiating with the US to develop the corridor. The 125 00:06:34,450 --> 00:06:37,970 S2: US's goal is to reduce Russian, Iranian and Chinese influence 126 00:06:37,970 --> 00:06:41,810 S2: in the region. Russia has condemned the US plan as encroachment. 127 00:06:42,170 --> 00:06:45,330 S2: The land belongs to Armenia, but the surrounding major powers 128 00:06:45,330 --> 00:06:48,090 S2: Russia on the north, China on the east, Iran on 129 00:06:48,089 --> 00:06:50,929 S2: the south and Turkey on the west, with the US 130 00:06:50,930 --> 00:06:53,800 S2: coming in from the outside, all want to develop the 131 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,480 S2: corridor as a way to maximize their influence and minimize 132 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,800 S2: that of their rivals. And with oil, natural gas. Fiber 133 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,120 S2: optic cables and international trade all coming through this narrow corridor. 134 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,120 S2: Whoever controls it will be able to influence much of 135 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:09,920 S2: what happens in the larger region. 136 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,040 S1: Yeah, you begin to see the significance of that whole thing. 137 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,760 S1: Thank you. Charlie. During this Hanukkah season, archaeologists announced the 138 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,040 S1: discovery of a wall in Jerusalem that dates back to 139 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,280 S1: the Hasmonean period. Does the wall connect in any way, though, 140 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:23,720 S1: to the story of Hanukkah? 141 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,640 S2: Well, the wall's connection to Hanukkah is somewhat indirect. Judas 142 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,680 S2: Maccabeus is the hero of Hanukkah. Following his death, his 143 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,560 S2: brother Jonathan took over, and after he was killed, his 144 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,360 S2: brother Simon was made leader and high priest of the 145 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,080 S2: Jewish nation, and he was also killed and two of 146 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,520 S2: his sons were imprisoned. But the third son he had, John, 147 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,840 S2: who was also named Hyrcanus, was then chosen as both 148 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,720 S2: leader and high priest. Now all that to say, the 149 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,150 S2: wall that was discovered was built sometime during the reign 150 00:07:51,190 --> 00:07:54,150 S2: of the Maccabees, but what was actually discovered can probably 151 00:07:54,150 --> 00:07:56,950 S2: be connected to the role of Hyrcanus at least 30 152 00:07:56,950 --> 00:07:59,590 S2: years after the events of Hanukkah. Now here's what was 153 00:07:59,590 --> 00:08:02,910 S2: discovered inside the so-called Tower of David, right next to 154 00:08:02,950 --> 00:08:07,510 S2: Jaffa Gate. Archaeologists found remains of a 16 foot wide wall, 155 00:08:07,630 --> 00:08:10,950 S2: and the part they uncovered extended for 130ft. Now, what 156 00:08:10,950 --> 00:08:13,310 S2: makes the wall unique is that it wasn't destroyed by 157 00:08:13,310 --> 00:08:16,670 S2: an invading army. There's no evidence of fallen stones or 158 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:19,910 S2: or rampant destruction. Rather, the wall appears to have been 159 00:08:19,910 --> 00:08:24,710 S2: systematically disassembled, and the Jewish historian Josephus actually helps pinpoint 160 00:08:24,710 --> 00:08:27,390 S2: when that happened. In The Antiquities of the Jews, he 161 00:08:27,390 --> 00:08:31,750 S2: describes an unsuccessful siege of Jerusalem by Antiochus the Seventh. 162 00:08:31,990 --> 00:08:35,630 S2: A distant relative of Antiochus the Fourth. Epiphanes. The Antiochus 163 00:08:35,630 --> 00:08:39,510 S2: in the story of Hanukkah. Anyway, Josephus reported that Hyrcanus 164 00:08:39,510 --> 00:08:43,070 S2: broke down the fortifications that encompassed the city and also 165 00:08:43,070 --> 00:08:46,190 S2: opened the sepulchre of David, and took out 3000 talents 166 00:08:46,190 --> 00:08:49,660 S2: of gold to pay off Antiochus the Seventh to withdraw 167 00:08:49,660 --> 00:08:52,460 S2: from the city. The section of the wall just uncovered 168 00:08:52,460 --> 00:08:54,780 S2: dates from this time, and is almost certainly part of 169 00:08:54,780 --> 00:08:58,780 S2: the wall torn down by Hyrcanus that's mentioned by Josephus. 170 00:08:59,100 --> 00:09:03,340 S2: The discovery reaffirms the historical accuracy of Josephus, and it 171 00:09:03,340 --> 00:09:06,220 S2: fills in details of what happened just a few decades 172 00:09:06,220 --> 00:09:07,900 S2: after the events of Hanukkah. 173 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:11,380 S1: While travelers to Israel over the past five decades have 174 00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:15,140 S1: seen solar hot water heaters dotting the rooftops of virtually 175 00:09:15,140 --> 00:09:18,100 S1: every building, you can't miss them. But those panels and 176 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:20,780 S1: metal canisters may soon become a thing of the past. 177 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:23,780 S1: What's the latest innovation coming to Israeli homes in the 178 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:24,580 S1: near future? 179 00:09:24,980 --> 00:09:27,180 S2: Yeah, the plan in Israel now is to begin phasing 180 00:09:27,179 --> 00:09:30,580 S2: out those rooftop solar heaters and replacing them with photovoltaic 181 00:09:30,580 --> 00:09:33,980 S2: panels and heat pumps. The original system was very advanced 182 00:09:33,980 --> 00:09:37,780 S2: for its time, but there are now more efficient technologies available. 183 00:09:37,980 --> 00:09:40,660 S2: Regulations were just put in place that will start replacing 184 00:09:40,660 --> 00:09:46,380 S2: those solar heaters beginning in 2026. Those systems serve about 85% 185 00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:49,330 S2: of Israeli households and they save about 5% on a 186 00:09:49,330 --> 00:09:52,569 S2: home's total electricity. The problem is on cloudy days and 187 00:09:52,570 --> 00:09:56,130 S2: at night they don't work. This new system with these 188 00:09:56,130 --> 00:09:59,209 S2: new photovoltaic panels and heat pumps are up to four 189 00:09:59,210 --> 00:10:01,569 S2: times more energy efficient. Now they're going to add a 190 00:10:01,570 --> 00:10:05,250 S2: little over $1,000 per apartment in construction costs, but they'll 191 00:10:05,250 --> 00:10:09,130 S2: save each household somewhere between 150 and $500 a year, 192 00:10:09,130 --> 00:10:11,810 S2: depending on the amount of hot water used. The system 193 00:10:11,809 --> 00:10:14,890 S2: will also help hold down peak hour electricity, and will 194 00:10:14,890 --> 00:10:18,290 S2: save the equivalent of two large conventional power plants. Israel 195 00:10:18,290 --> 00:10:20,810 S2: was one of the first countries to harness the power 196 00:10:20,809 --> 00:10:23,370 S2: of the sun to reduce energy costs, and now they 197 00:10:23,410 --> 00:10:25,530 S2: hope to lead the way once again in harnessing the 198 00:10:25,530 --> 00:10:28,810 S2: power of the sun, along with technology to generate even 199 00:10:28,809 --> 00:10:29,890 S2: more savings. 200 00:10:30,130 --> 00:10:32,770 S1: Fascinating. Thank you for that. Look at current events, Charlie. 201 00:10:33,050 --> 00:10:35,490 S1: Think of it. Jesus was born to a simple peasant 202 00:10:35,490 --> 00:10:38,370 S1: woman and her carpenter husband. Up next, on the land 203 00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:41,170 S1: of the book, it's looking for Christmas. A conversation you 204 00:10:41,170 --> 00:10:58,160 S1: don't want to miss. Right here. He was born to 205 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,440 S1: a simple peasant woman and her carpenter husband. The first 206 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,560 S1: people who took the time to find him were not 207 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,040 S1: kings or queens or celebrities of any kind. They were 208 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,560 S1: working class shepherds who were on the night shift, coming 209 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,000 S1: up on the land, and the book were looking for Christmas. 210 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,360 S1: You'll love the journey. Best of all, you'll come away 211 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,280 S1: with a piece not just for the holidays, but for 212 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,760 S1: the entire new year. Welcome to the land and the book. 213 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,360 S1: I'm John Gager. Before we say hi to today's guest, 214 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,280 S1: let's give some thought to sharing Christ more effectively with 215 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,600 S1: a Jewish friend. We Christians claim that we're part of 216 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,920 S1: a community at church, and that's great. It's true. So 217 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,960 S1: how does that community then focus on ways that we 218 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,920 S1: can be effective in reaching our Jewish friends for Yeshua? 219 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,319 S1: Justin Krohn, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? 220 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,260 S3: Yeah, if your church is located in a community where 221 00:11:47,260 --> 00:11:50,420 S3: there's Jewish people, you really need to be thinking about, 222 00:11:50,420 --> 00:11:54,380 S3: how can our community, how can our congregation be more welcoming, 223 00:11:54,620 --> 00:11:58,059 S3: be more hospitable to the Jewish people in our neighborhood? 224 00:11:58,179 --> 00:12:01,940 S3: How can we be looking to be building bridges with 225 00:12:01,940 --> 00:12:05,660 S3: that community? And that might mean how can the pastor 226 00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:10,420 S3: himself reach out to the rabbi and get coffee together, 227 00:12:10,460 --> 00:12:12,940 S3: get to know one another, and look for ways that 228 00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:17,820 S3: they can partner together so that the natural progression of 229 00:12:17,820 --> 00:12:21,339 S3: believers living out their faith and sharing their faith, and 230 00:12:21,340 --> 00:12:24,780 S3: what's most important to them in who Jesus is, that 231 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:26,260 S3: that will happen naturally. 232 00:12:26,380 --> 00:12:29,699 S1: Yeah. Great advice from Justin Cronin and is a regular 233 00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:34,060 S1: contributor here to the Land and the book. Donna Van 234 00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:37,979 S1: Lier is a New York Times and USA today bestselling author. 235 00:12:38,140 --> 00:12:41,780 S1: She's written 18 books, including The Christmas Shoes and The 236 00:12:41,780 --> 00:12:47,010 S1: Christmas Blessing that were both adapted into top rated CBS movies. 237 00:12:47,370 --> 00:12:49,370 S1: It's an honor to have you back on the land 238 00:12:49,370 --> 00:12:50,370 S1: and the book, Donna. 239 00:12:50,929 --> 00:12:53,730 S4: Well, thanks for having me, John. How are you today? 240 00:12:53,890 --> 00:12:56,130 S1: We're having a great day. And it's better because you're 241 00:12:56,130 --> 00:12:59,930 S1: part of the conversation. I'm thinking, though, that so many 242 00:12:59,929 --> 00:13:02,250 S1: have written on the story of Christmas. I want to 243 00:13:02,250 --> 00:13:04,930 S1: know what made you want to write this book in particular? 244 00:13:04,929 --> 00:13:07,569 S1: What was the moment when you said, hey, this needs 245 00:13:07,570 --> 00:13:08,650 S1: a bit more focus? 246 00:13:09,130 --> 00:13:13,250 S4: Well, I really just wanted people to focus on the Nativity. 247 00:13:13,290 --> 00:13:16,730 S4: We get really caught up in the feast of Christmas, John. 248 00:13:16,970 --> 00:13:19,530 S4: We get caught up in the presence and the parties 249 00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:22,890 S4: and the decorations and all of that is awesome. But 250 00:13:22,890 --> 00:13:26,250 S4: I just really wanted to focus on the nativity, on 251 00:13:26,250 --> 00:13:30,210 S4: the reason for our celebration and really just kind of 252 00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:33,570 S4: take a, you know, dig a little deeper into Mary 253 00:13:33,570 --> 00:13:38,610 S4: and Joseph. Zechariah and Elizabeth, the star, the shepherds. King 254 00:13:38,610 --> 00:13:41,850 S4: Herod wanted to just kind of dig into those, to 255 00:13:41,890 --> 00:13:45,959 S4: let people give them a better footing on them, especially 256 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,160 S4: if they're really just kind of showing up once a 257 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,360 S4: year at church for Christmas and then carrying on. But 258 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,680 S4: I wanted people, once the end of the last page 259 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,359 S4: is read, I want them to know where salvation lies. 260 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,560 S4: Salvation is in Jesus alone. So I just kind of 261 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,880 S4: set it up throughout the entire book. And then at 262 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,200 S4: the end of the book, I lead people right to 263 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,040 S4: salvation if they don't know Jesus. 264 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,280 S1: Well, you mentioned this idea of putting a spotlight on 265 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,880 S1: the nativity story. And it's interesting because I was a 266 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,560 S1: number of years ago at a I'll not say the name, 267 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,920 S1: a nationally recognized chain store and, uh, of all things 268 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,640 S1: I asked about, they had, you know, a nativity scene. 269 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,360 S1: And the lady said, what's that? 270 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:28,280 S4: Mhm. 271 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,800 S1: I mean, she'd never even heard of it. Wow. So 272 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,400 S1: that kind of caught me off guard. In the book, though, 273 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,200 S1: you pose the question of questions, why would Jesus even 274 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,360 S1: want to leave the perfection and splendor of heaven for 275 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,910 S1: this earthly world? Summarize your answer, Donna. 276 00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:46,790 S4: Well, he was about his father's business, if you remember, 277 00:14:46,990 --> 00:14:50,110 S4: when he was 12 years old and his parents lost 278 00:14:50,110 --> 00:14:53,830 S4: him in that caravan, you know, going back home from Jerusalem? Yeah. 279 00:14:53,870 --> 00:14:57,950 S4: And they lost them, couldn't find them, went back into Jerusalem, 280 00:14:57,990 --> 00:15:02,150 S4: you know, diligently looking for him. Found him three days later. 281 00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:05,310 S4: I can't imagine losing a child for three days. What 282 00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:07,910 S4: kind of fear that would stoke in a parent's heart. 283 00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:11,910 S4: And Jesus has replied to them, was basically, why were 284 00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:14,190 S4: you looking for me? You knew I had to be 285 00:15:14,190 --> 00:15:17,750 S4: about my father's business. That's why he came. He was 286 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:22,390 S4: about his father's business, and his father's business was to 287 00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:25,670 S4: create a way into heaven to be with the father 288 00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:29,190 S4: God forever. And Jesus paved the way. When he came 289 00:15:29,190 --> 00:15:32,270 S4: here as man, he was fully man. He was fully God. 290 00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:35,190 S4: But he took on all of our sins on him 291 00:15:35,190 --> 00:15:38,430 S4: when he died on that cross. And then he rose again, 292 00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:41,580 S4: and he lives right now at the right hand of 293 00:15:41,580 --> 00:15:45,580 S4: the father, giving intercession for us all the time. He 294 00:15:45,620 --> 00:15:48,180 S4: is praying for us, but he was about His Father's 295 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:51,580 S4: business from the moment he came down his earthly ministry. 296 00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:54,380 S4: He was about his father's business and still in heaven. 297 00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:57,820 S4: Today he is about his father's business. So that's why 298 00:15:57,820 --> 00:16:00,980 S4: he came. He came to pave the way for us. 299 00:16:01,340 --> 00:16:05,060 S1: Looking for Christmas. That's our journey today with author Donna 300 00:16:05,060 --> 00:16:08,140 S1: Van Leer. Thanks for your conversation, Donna. You know, it's 301 00:16:08,140 --> 00:16:12,260 S1: amazing how we as American believers often read about the 302 00:16:12,260 --> 00:16:16,300 S1: humble circumstances of Jesus birth. That humble, you know, town, 303 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,020 S1: the humble, stable. But we want nothing to do with 304 00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:22,140 S1: that humble a lifestyle for ourselves. Why do you suppose 305 00:16:22,140 --> 00:16:23,380 S1: there's such disconnect? 306 00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:28,820 S4: Yeah, well, that's our Western culture, isn't it? He came 307 00:16:28,820 --> 00:16:33,780 S4: in the most humble of circumstances, and he was an outcast. 308 00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:37,780 S4: Mary and Joseph, they were. They were outcasts. And he 309 00:16:37,780 --> 00:16:41,010 S4: had to come as an outcast, to reach the hearts 310 00:16:41,330 --> 00:16:46,610 S4: of outcasts. And so often we do live these lives 311 00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:50,850 S4: that are complete opposite of how Jesus came. But he 312 00:16:50,850 --> 00:16:54,330 S4: wants us to live a life of humility so that 313 00:16:54,330 --> 00:16:57,970 S4: we can reach the least of these, that we can 314 00:16:57,970 --> 00:17:01,010 S4: reach them. Yeah, we may live in a bigger house 315 00:17:01,010 --> 00:17:03,170 S4: than someone else, but we can reach them on that 316 00:17:03,170 --> 00:17:06,410 S4: heart level with the love of Jesus. So that's what 317 00:17:06,410 --> 00:17:09,290 S4: we all need to aspire to, is to take on 318 00:17:09,330 --> 00:17:13,330 S4: that humility of Jesus, to pray for humility in our 319 00:17:13,330 --> 00:17:17,010 S4: daily lives so that we can have a conversation with 320 00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:20,530 S4: someone so that no one feels shunned when they're around us. 321 00:17:20,570 --> 00:17:24,370 S4: You know, the Magi, they sought after that light that 322 00:17:24,369 --> 00:17:26,690 S4: was in the sky, and they called it his light. 323 00:17:26,690 --> 00:17:29,530 S4: That was his light that was shining. And his light 324 00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:33,609 S4: shines through each one of us. His light is within us, 325 00:17:33,970 --> 00:17:38,160 S4: and that light within us should attract other people from 326 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,520 S4: the least to the great. That light should attract them 327 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,120 S4: to us. And we should say, yeah, that light is Jesus. 328 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,160 S4: It's the light of Jesus in me. That's how I 329 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,119 S4: can connect with you. I may not be able to 330 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,240 S4: connect with you on any other level, but I can 331 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,800 S4: connect with you because the light of Jesus that's inside 332 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:53,280 S4: of me. 333 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,320 S1: I'm not counting on my fingers, but if I were, 334 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,080 S1: I'm sure it's at least 3 or 4 times you 335 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,400 S1: have referenced the urgent need for salvation, the whole point 336 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,280 S1: of Jesus coming. And it strikes me as a sad irony. 337 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,120 S1: And I'll let you comment on this, that we as 338 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,440 S1: as evangelical Bible readers could take in that story every year, 339 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,200 S1: celebrate it around our tables, and let it essentially be 340 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,280 S1: about us and this Bible that we love, and very 341 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,880 S1: little about the neighbors who don't know Jesus, the people 342 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,560 S1: across the street, the people in our in the cubicle 343 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,240 S1: next to us at the office. Christmas never seems to 344 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,840 S1: spill into that context. What's our problem? 345 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,119 S4: Mm. Yeah. Every day for a Christian is Christmas really? 346 00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:38,670 S4: it's not just a once a year. Well, a month, 347 00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:40,790 S4: you know, in the Western culture, we celebrate it for 348 00:18:40,790 --> 00:18:43,310 S4: an entire month, right? But it's not just a once 349 00:18:43,310 --> 00:18:45,630 S4: a day event for us. It's every day is Christmas 350 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:49,470 S4: for us because Christ lives inside of us. And we 351 00:18:49,470 --> 00:18:54,830 S4: should be able to have those conversations with people because again, 352 00:18:54,869 --> 00:18:58,750 S4: we are salt and we are light, and we may 353 00:18:58,790 --> 00:19:00,950 S4: be the only salt and light in our own little 354 00:19:00,950 --> 00:19:02,669 S4: part of the world that we're living in. You may 355 00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:06,750 S4: be the only salt and light that's on your street. 356 00:19:06,990 --> 00:19:10,230 S4: As a matter of fact, for 17 years straight I 357 00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:12,470 S4: would walk with one of our neighbors. If I would 358 00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:14,510 S4: see her out walking, I would walk up and down 359 00:19:14,510 --> 00:19:16,470 S4: the road with her. If she'd see me walking, you know, 360 00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:19,550 S4: she'd come out and walk up and down the road 361 00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:22,149 S4: and you know, when the conversation would get to a 362 00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:24,910 S4: certain point, I would weave in the Bible, you know, 363 00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:27,350 S4: as best I could, I would weave in the Lord. 364 00:19:27,550 --> 00:19:29,189 S4: And of course, at the end of the walk, I 365 00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:31,710 S4: would think, well, that that didn't go anywhere, you know, 366 00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:38,090 S4: that didn't land, you know, but 17 years later, she 367 00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:39,490 S4: gave her heart to the Lord. 368 00:19:39,530 --> 00:19:39,930 S5: Wow. 369 00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:41,970 S4: And it wasn't because of me. It wasn't because I 370 00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:45,250 S4: led her to the Lord. Someone else did. But when 371 00:19:45,250 --> 00:19:47,850 S4: it came time for her to be baptized, one of 372 00:19:47,850 --> 00:19:50,370 S4: the ladies said, oh, Donna, I hear that you played 373 00:19:50,369 --> 00:19:53,210 S4: such a major part in this. I said, really? And 374 00:19:53,210 --> 00:19:56,490 S4: she said yes. And then my neighbor told me, she said, Donna, 375 00:19:56,530 --> 00:20:00,250 S4: you have no idea how I cherished all those conversations 376 00:20:00,250 --> 00:20:02,890 S4: over the years. So we just don't know, John. We 377 00:20:02,930 --> 00:20:07,850 S4: don't know what we say, how it is landing on someone, 378 00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:10,450 S4: and all we can do is pray. It's like, oh Lord, 379 00:20:10,450 --> 00:20:13,570 S4: give me the right words right now to speak to 380 00:20:13,609 --> 00:20:16,330 S4: my office mate. You know, to speak to my neighbor. 381 00:20:16,369 --> 00:20:18,850 S4: Just give me the words. And you know, half the 382 00:20:18,850 --> 00:20:22,450 S4: time we we forget what we said, but they remember, right? 383 00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:25,290 S4: That's that's the Holy Spirit. It's like. No, you you prayed. 384 00:20:25,290 --> 00:20:27,610 S4: You asked the Holy Spirit to help you, and he did. 385 00:20:27,970 --> 00:20:30,650 S4: But you don't remember because it's not about you. It's 386 00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:34,719 S4: totally not about us. It's about how the Lord uses us. 387 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,800 S4: And so that's my encouragement for anybody listening today. Just 388 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,960 S4: ask the Lord, how do you want me to say 389 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,160 S4: this to this person? You know, how can I minister 390 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,920 S4: to this person? Please show me the way. 391 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:46,440 S5: Yes, yes, yes. 392 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,359 S4: And just let the Lord take over. Let the Holy 393 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,920 S4: Spirit take over you just do your part and let 394 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,639 S4: the Holy Spirit do his work. 395 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,960 S1: Donna Van Lier is a New York Times and USA 396 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,679 S1: today best selling author. Her newest release, looking for Christmas. 397 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,640 S1: And in that book, Donna, you share some surprising insights 398 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,000 S1: about the shepherds who visited the infant Jesus. What do 399 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,040 S1: we need to know here to deepen our own faith 400 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:08,920 S1: this Christmas? 401 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,360 S4: Oh, I love the account of the shepherds because, you know, 402 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,080 S4: they were out there. They were watching very specific sheep. 403 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,400 S4: They were watching the sheep that would be used in 404 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,119 S4: the temple. Sacrifice. So these are the unblemished lambs. Those 405 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,159 S4: are the lambs and sheep that they were guarding. And 406 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,200 S4: so who better for the angels to announce that the 407 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,110 S4: Lamb of God was being born, the unblemished Lamb of 408 00:21:36,109 --> 00:21:39,830 S4: God was being born, the pure and spotless Lamb of God. 409 00:21:40,109 --> 00:21:43,750 S4: They announced it to shepherds who were on the low 410 00:21:43,790 --> 00:21:47,629 S4: rung of society. They were so far on the bottom 411 00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:50,909 S4: rung of society that they couldn't even be a witness 412 00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:54,830 S4: in court, because no one would believe them. That's how 413 00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:59,590 S4: far people put them down. They were worthless, basically. Except 414 00:21:59,590 --> 00:22:03,070 S4: they were watching those sheep for the Jews. So it's 415 00:22:03,070 --> 00:22:07,390 S4: just this amazing story that God saw these outcasts out 416 00:22:07,390 --> 00:22:11,030 S4: in the field. They were guarding those pure, unblemished sheep 417 00:22:11,230 --> 00:22:15,950 S4: for the temple sacrifice. And they were the ones that 418 00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:19,070 S4: the angel announced that the coming of the Savior to. 419 00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:22,230 S4: And another beautiful part of that is that I talk 420 00:22:22,270 --> 00:22:26,030 S4: throughout the book that 400 years of silence ended when 421 00:22:26,030 --> 00:22:31,460 S4: that angel visited Zechariah 400 years. They hadn't heard from 422 00:22:31,460 --> 00:22:35,100 S4: the Lord at all. And then suddenly an angel from 423 00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:37,860 S4: heaven appears to Zechariah. But not only had it been 424 00:22:37,859 --> 00:22:40,220 S4: 400 years of silence not hearing from the Lord, it 425 00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:44,540 S4: was 400 years they hadn't even seen his glory. And 426 00:22:44,540 --> 00:22:49,580 S4: these outcasts out on these fields, guarding these sheep, they 427 00:22:49,619 --> 00:22:52,740 S4: got to see the glory of the Lord as well. 428 00:22:53,060 --> 00:22:56,300 S4: And so who was the first to see the face 429 00:22:56,300 --> 00:23:01,060 S4: of the infant Jesus? It was these shepherds, these outcasts. Because, again, 430 00:23:01,420 --> 00:23:04,740 S4: Jesus had to come an outcast, to touch the heart 431 00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:08,180 S4: and to reach the heart of the outcast. And so 432 00:23:08,180 --> 00:23:12,100 S4: many people today, they believe I'm an outcast. I'm unworthy. 433 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:15,860 S4: I don't fit in. I have no place in society. 434 00:23:15,859 --> 00:23:19,260 S4: I have no place, even in my family. And Jesus said, yes, 435 00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:23,020 S4: you are worthy. You can be in my family, I 436 00:23:23,060 --> 00:23:26,420 S4: created you, I love you, I adore you. And he's 437 00:23:26,420 --> 00:23:30,570 S4: inviting us to come in and declare that he is Savior. 438 00:23:30,570 --> 00:23:33,170 S4: He came for each and every one of us, every 439 00:23:33,170 --> 00:23:34,250 S4: single outcast. 440 00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:37,210 S1: You know, Donna, I'm sitting here thinking somebody's listening right 441 00:23:37,210 --> 00:23:41,090 S1: now is saying I'm that outcast. I'm that person with 442 00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:44,770 S1: a past that I'm pretty sure God could never deal with. 443 00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:48,050 S1: God would never accept me. What is a prayer? Would 444 00:23:48,050 --> 00:23:50,250 S1: you model that for us? Lead somebody in a prayer, 445 00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:53,649 S1: maybe even give them space so they can pray with 446 00:23:53,650 --> 00:23:56,889 S1: you to receive the forgiveness of Jesus? Would you do that? 447 00:23:57,130 --> 00:24:00,250 S4: Yeah. You know, even Jesus said one of his first 448 00:24:00,250 --> 00:24:04,330 S4: words in the biblical narratives is he says, repent, for 449 00:24:04,330 --> 00:24:05,810 S4: the kingdom of heaven is near. 450 00:24:05,850 --> 00:24:06,209 S5: Yeah. 451 00:24:06,250 --> 00:24:09,850 S4: And that's what we do. We repent of our sins 452 00:24:09,850 --> 00:24:13,250 S4: because it's our sins that separate us from Jesus. That's 453 00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:15,050 S4: why we feel like, oh, I can never get close 454 00:24:15,050 --> 00:24:17,330 S4: to Jesus. I can't, I can't be part of his 455 00:24:17,330 --> 00:24:22,050 S4: kingdom because it's our sins that completely mar our lives, 456 00:24:22,050 --> 00:24:25,410 S4: and they make us feel dirty and so incomplete. So 457 00:24:25,410 --> 00:24:29,240 S4: it is just repenting of those sins and declaring that 458 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,080 S4: Jesus is Lord. So you can just simply pray, Jesus, 459 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,160 S4: I come to you right now and I repent of 460 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,280 S4: all the sins in my life, and I declare that 461 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,960 S4: you are Savior. I declare that you are my Savior 462 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,240 S4: and Lord. And I know that God raised you from 463 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,040 S4: the dead. I know that he has paved the way 464 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,600 S4: through you so that I could live with you forever. 465 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,720 S4: And I declare today that you are my Savior. In 466 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,359 S4: Jesus name, Amen. 467 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:01,160 S5: Amen. 468 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,000 S1: Hey, if you prayed that prayer, we would love to 469 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,320 S1: talk with you and you can email us at the 470 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,520 S1: land and the book at. The land and the book at. 471 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,720 S1: You got 20s, Donna, which is a cruel thing to 472 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,680 S1: do to any author. What's the one thing you want 473 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,240 S1: us to take away from your book? Looking for Christmas? 474 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,680 S4: Uh, today is the day of salvation. Jesus came to 475 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,669 S4: pave that way for us, so I hope they enjoy 476 00:25:27,670 --> 00:25:29,990 S4: the book. You can also listen. I did a looking 477 00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:34,629 S4: for Christmas podcast and YouVersion on your Bible app. Has 478 00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:37,630 S4: done a seven day devotional for looking for Christmas so 479 00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:40,389 S4: that can help get you in the Christmas spirit as well. 480 00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:43,790 S1: Terrific. Thank you Donna. Looking for Christmas? That's what you're 481 00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:46,230 S1: looking for. And we'll point you to that book at 482 00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:50,629 S1: our website. The land and the book. Dot, looking forward 483 00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:53,190 S1: to some more Bible questions with Gerald Peterman. That's next 484 00:25:53,190 --> 00:26:07,429 S1: here on the land and the book. You've got so 485 00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:11,310 S1: many choices in listening today. You could be anywhere with 486 00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:14,750 S1: a podcast, anywhere perhaps on your radio, but you have 487 00:26:14,750 --> 00:26:16,950 S1: chosen to hang out with us. And for that we 488 00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:19,710 S1: say thank you. I'm John Yeager, seated across from me, 489 00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:23,669 S1: Gerald Peterman. He's answering Bible questions today, as he does 490 00:26:23,670 --> 00:26:26,540 S1: every single week at this time. You look forward to 491 00:26:26,580 --> 00:26:28,340 S1: this segment. For what reason? 492 00:26:28,380 --> 00:26:31,060 S6: Oh, because it's so much fun. Because I think about 493 00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:33,100 S6: how I wish I could have heard this 40 years ago. 494 00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:34,260 S6: If I could heard this sort of thing, it would 495 00:26:34,260 --> 00:26:34,980 S6: have been wonderful. 496 00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:37,620 S1: Well, would it shock you to hear from my own 497 00:26:37,619 --> 00:26:39,300 S1: lips as I listen to you? Boy, I wish I'd 498 00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:40,020 S1: have known that. 499 00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:41,460 S6: Well. Thank you. 500 00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:44,899 S1: We've got some questions today centered around the book of Hebrews. 501 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:47,700 S1: Maybe one of them is yours. Stick around for that. 502 00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:51,219 S1: But first, no question that we all face fearful times 503 00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:53,460 S1: from time to time. The question is, what do we 504 00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:56,300 S1: do with those fears? Wes Tabor of Life in Messiah 505 00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:59,940 S1: has written the book Where Is God in Fearful Times? 506 00:27:00,140 --> 00:27:03,900 S1: A biblical Account of the Exodus journey, piece by piece. Wes, 507 00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:05,660 S1: how do you think our lives would be different if 508 00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:08,740 S1: we today had a stronger grip on this question? Where 509 00:27:08,780 --> 00:27:11,780 S1: is God in fearful times? That's a great question. 510 00:27:12,180 --> 00:27:15,660 S7: God is sovereign. God designs what we go through. We 511 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:19,060 S7: decide how we will go through it. Our circumstances are 512 00:27:19,060 --> 00:27:22,260 S7: ordained of the Lord. They're there to humble us, to 513 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:24,180 S7: test us, to prove what's in our hearts. 514 00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:26,090 S1: You've done such a beautiful job in this book of 515 00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:29,730 S1: bringing these scriptures alive, bits and pieces of passages that 516 00:27:29,730 --> 00:27:32,450 S1: come alive even as you discuss things like the Fear 517 00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:35,689 S1: Factor and Misery Index. It's all in the book. Where 518 00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:38,610 S1: is God in fearful times? How do you get a copy? 519 00:27:38,650 --> 00:27:40,570 S1: We've got one for you with your name on it. 520 00:27:40,609 --> 00:27:43,730 S1: If you'll visit us at Life in Messiah. Org. Click 521 00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:46,729 S1: on the Moody Radio button there. Life in Messiah. Org. 522 00:27:47,369 --> 00:27:50,929 S1: The book is Where is God in fearful times, and 523 00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:53,770 S1: these times that we're in right now are for answering 524 00:27:53,770 --> 00:27:57,890 S1: your Bible questions. Email yours to the land and the 525 00:27:57,890 --> 00:28:03,330 S1: book at Moody's. The land and the book at Moody's. 526 00:28:04,650 --> 00:28:06,889 S1: We go to the book of Hebrews in a cluster 527 00:28:06,890 --> 00:28:10,129 S1: of questions, all themed around this wonderful New Testament book. 528 00:28:10,369 --> 00:28:13,330 S1: Exactly who are the Hebrews that this book is named for, 529 00:28:13,330 --> 00:28:14,129 S1: Doctor Peterman? 530 00:28:14,530 --> 00:28:18,130 S6: Well, the term Hebrews doesn't actually occur in the book, 531 00:28:18,410 --> 00:28:22,530 S6: but it's been given this label because of how the 532 00:28:22,530 --> 00:28:25,550 S6: writer speaks to them. The writer speaks to them about 533 00:28:25,550 --> 00:28:29,630 S6: things that are very Jewish. A Jewish person would just love. 534 00:28:29,670 --> 00:28:32,550 S6: He speaks to them in detail about things they would 535 00:28:32,550 --> 00:28:35,230 S6: know if they had a Jewish upbringing. So he speaks 536 00:28:35,230 --> 00:28:38,950 S6: to them about the Tabernacle and the holy place, and 537 00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:42,790 S6: the priests and the high priests and the offerings, and 538 00:28:42,790 --> 00:28:45,910 S6: he draws on his Old Testament and, oh, my goodness, 539 00:28:45,910 --> 00:28:47,670 S6: the way he draws on his Old Testament. I mean, 540 00:28:47,670 --> 00:28:51,430 S6: more than any other writer, it's just thick and rich. 541 00:28:51,910 --> 00:28:55,270 S6: Who could take all of this in? I doubt that 542 00:28:55,270 --> 00:28:58,310 S6: a Gentile audience could take it in. So here's the 543 00:28:58,310 --> 00:29:02,070 S6: conclusion most commentators have reached. The writer of Hebrews is 544 00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:06,230 S6: talking to a group of Jews who've become believers in 545 00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:09,190 S6: Messiah Jesus. Thus the term to the Hebrews. 546 00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:12,430 S1: All right. My own impression as I read the book 547 00:29:12,430 --> 00:29:16,270 S1: of Hebrews is the wheels of my chariot are bogged 548 00:29:16,270 --> 00:29:20,630 S1: down in the muddy understanding that I have of Melchizedek. 549 00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:23,220 S1: You know, he's this great high priest and in the 550 00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:27,380 S1: order of. And I am quickly dizzied and out of 551 00:29:27,380 --> 00:29:29,700 S1: the game. Help us with Melchizedek. Oh, that's. 552 00:29:29,700 --> 00:29:33,940 S6: That's completely understandable. So if we go to Genesis 14, 553 00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:38,660 S6: we first encounter Melchizedek. Abraham is coming back from a battle, 554 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:41,739 S6: and he gives to Melchizedek a tithe of all the 555 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:46,140 S6: spoils of war. Wait, wait. Who is this Abraham? He's 556 00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:49,700 S6: the father of the nation. He's like the primary character. 557 00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:52,180 S6: He's our big daddy, if you will. So then who 558 00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:55,420 S6: does Melchizedek turned out to be? He's obviously an important figure. 559 00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:59,700 S6: Abraham is submissive. Well, then, what's he about? And then 560 00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:03,220 S6: Genesis doesn't answer the question. And then we come to 561 00:30:03,260 --> 00:30:06,340 S6: Psalm 110. When we come to Psalm 110, we find 562 00:30:06,700 --> 00:30:10,420 S6: that there is someone that the Lord speaks to who 563 00:30:10,420 --> 00:30:16,820 S6: will be a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek. Well, 564 00:30:16,820 --> 00:30:20,300 S6: the Melchizedek priestly order is not the Levi order, is it? It's. 565 00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:23,530 S6: It's a very, very different one. What makes the priestly 566 00:30:23,530 --> 00:30:27,530 S6: order of Melchizedek different? Because he wasn't just a priest. 567 00:30:27,970 --> 00:30:32,890 S6: He was a priest. King. Oh, that's Psalm 110. And 568 00:30:32,890 --> 00:30:35,890 S6: now we wait. And then we wait. And then we wait. 569 00:30:35,890 --> 00:30:38,090 S6: And then we come to Jesus and we find that 570 00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:42,850 S6: he is priest and king. Oh, now it begins to 571 00:30:42,890 --> 00:30:47,570 S6: make sense. So this background, I think, not understood very 572 00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:50,489 S6: many for much time anyway, is now all of a 573 00:30:50,490 --> 00:30:52,650 S6: sudden brought to us very clearly in Christ. 574 00:30:52,690 --> 00:30:53,210 S5: Okay. 575 00:30:53,410 --> 00:30:55,969 S1: That's that's helpful. Thank you. What do we find in 576 00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:59,170 S1: Hebrews that we do not find anywhere else in the 577 00:30:59,170 --> 00:31:01,530 S1: New Testament? What unique content is there? 578 00:31:01,930 --> 00:31:05,090 S6: Yeah, I'm I'm fine with this question. I'm fine with 579 00:31:05,090 --> 00:31:08,570 S6: saying some books bring stuff that other books don't bring. Right. 580 00:31:08,610 --> 00:31:14,170 S6: And the Hebrews brings Jesus as high priest. Nobody else 581 00:31:14,170 --> 00:31:15,810 S6: does that. I mean, you might have thought that Paul 582 00:31:15,810 --> 00:31:17,530 S6: would think it up. You might have thought maybe John 583 00:31:17,530 --> 00:31:20,479 S6: would think it up. No. I'm sorry. It's only the 584 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,760 S6: writer of Hebrews. Why is that so very important? Now 585 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,000 S6: we find that the high priest of the Old Testament 586 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,080 S6: who would, you know, go into the Holy of Holies 587 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,800 S6: only once per year, not bringing his own blood, but 588 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,360 S6: the blood of a bull? We find that the high 589 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,000 S6: priest actually looked forward to another person, looked forward to 590 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,200 S6: someone else. This is not a prophecy that says in 591 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,640 S6: the future, blah blah blah will happen. It's not that 592 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,680 S6: kind of prophecy. Rather, it's a person. It's an office. 593 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,440 S6: But we can see from the writer of Hebrews perspective 594 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,720 S6: that this high priest was, on the one hand, very important. 595 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:01,200 S5: Yeah. 596 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,320 S6: On the other hand, his job is frustrating because he 597 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,720 S6: has to go into the high place year after year, 598 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,880 S6: year after year, year after year, and can't bring about 599 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:17,360 S6: a one and done atonement that cleanses our conscience. And 600 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,150 S6: so our Lord is the high priest who has gone 601 00:32:21,150 --> 00:32:24,470 S6: once for all into the holy place and redeemed us. 602 00:32:25,230 --> 00:32:28,590 S1: Somebody looking at the book of Hebrews says, uh, I'm 603 00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:31,670 S1: a little confused. It almost feels like a person can 604 00:32:31,670 --> 00:32:34,990 S1: lose their salvation. What do we make of all that? 605 00:32:35,390 --> 00:32:38,670 S6: I could see where someone would ask this question. Hebrews 606 00:32:38,670 --> 00:32:42,190 S6: is extremely difficult. I know that Hebrews has given many 607 00:32:42,190 --> 00:32:46,590 S6: people a horrible scare, and maybe rightly so. I do 608 00:32:46,590 --> 00:32:52,070 S6: not think Hebrews says you can lose your salvation. I 609 00:32:52,110 --> 00:32:55,430 S6: really don't. I'm going to take us to probably an 610 00:32:55,430 --> 00:33:01,790 S6: unexpected passage to address this. It's Hebrews 314. What does 611 00:33:01,790 --> 00:33:07,030 S6: it say? We have become partakers of Christ if we 612 00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:11,910 S6: hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end. 613 00:33:12,270 --> 00:33:15,190 S6: Now let's read this very carefully. We have become partakers 614 00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:17,980 S6: of Christ. What tense is that? I'm sorry folks, we're 615 00:33:17,980 --> 00:33:21,660 S6: going to have a lesson in verb tense. Hang with me. Hang. 616 00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:25,660 S6: You're going to be fine. What tense is we have become. 617 00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:29,980 S6: That's past tense. We have become partakers with Christ. Then 618 00:33:29,980 --> 00:33:32,500 S6: he says, if we hold our faith. 619 00:33:32,540 --> 00:33:34,180 S1: Present tense, present tense. 620 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:38,660 S6: Okay, good. This can't be cause and effect. The present 621 00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:43,100 S6: can it cause the past. If we hold, we become partakers. 622 00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:46,140 S6: Know the present can't change the past. The present is 623 00:33:46,140 --> 00:33:49,660 S6: demonstrated from the past, or the present is caused by 624 00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:52,900 S6: the past. We became partakers of Christ, and that is 625 00:33:53,380 --> 00:33:57,140 S6: demonstrated by our perseverance. This is one of those if 626 00:33:57,180 --> 00:34:01,900 S6: then statements. That's not cause and effect, it's evidence inference. 627 00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:04,660 S6: Then we come to a passage that many people know, 628 00:34:05,060 --> 00:34:07,260 S6: and that is Hebrews six. To the one who has 629 00:34:07,260 --> 00:34:10,739 S6: once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, tasted the good 630 00:34:10,739 --> 00:34:12,740 S6: things of the age to come, but has fallen away. 631 00:34:12,739 --> 00:34:17,050 S6: It's impossible to renew them again to repentance. What is 632 00:34:17,050 --> 00:34:21,810 S6: this about? What is that impossibility? I don't think this 633 00:34:21,810 --> 00:34:25,089 S6: is about losing salvation. I think this is about someone 634 00:34:25,330 --> 00:34:30,330 S6: who's learned a lot, and someone who's had several wonderful 635 00:34:30,330 --> 00:34:35,290 S6: experiences being around Christians and hearing from Scripture and then 636 00:34:35,290 --> 00:34:40,210 S6: falls away. What's the impossibility? This is Hebrews six, verses 637 00:34:40,210 --> 00:34:44,810 S6: 4 to 6. What's the impossibility? Is anything impossible for God? 638 00:34:45,050 --> 00:34:48,370 S6: We know that's not true. Then what's the impossibility? I 639 00:34:48,370 --> 00:34:53,969 S6: think the impossibility is a practical impossibility. Someone with so 640 00:34:54,130 --> 00:34:57,850 S6: much experience of Christian things who turns away. There's nothing 641 00:34:57,850 --> 00:35:02,049 S6: else you can say to bring them back. It's practically impossible. 642 00:35:02,610 --> 00:35:05,890 S1: Doctor Gerald Peterman answering questions today all focused in the 643 00:35:05,890 --> 00:35:08,969 S1: book of Hebrews. But typically we we go wherever you 644 00:35:08,969 --> 00:35:11,650 S1: take us. And you can get that question and direct 645 00:35:11,650 --> 00:35:14,410 S1: this conversation with your email to the land and the 646 00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:19,549 S1: book at you. I have a question about Hebrews chapter 12, 647 00:35:19,870 --> 00:35:23,189 S1: a familiar verse. Therefore, since we are surrounded by so 648 00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:26,150 S1: great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside 649 00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:30,790 S1: every weight and sin which clings so closely. Okay. This 650 00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:35,710 S1: cloud of witnesses reference is that a sort of list 651 00:35:35,710 --> 00:35:39,950 S1: somewhere on a heavenly scroll? Or is it a is 652 00:35:39,950 --> 00:35:43,910 S1: it a group of of humans that are, of course, 653 00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:47,270 S1: now with the Lord that are actively sort of witnessing 654 00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:48,470 S1: us and what we do? 655 00:35:49,350 --> 00:35:53,710 S6: Oh, I really appreciate that question. What has just happened 656 00:35:53,870 --> 00:35:58,189 S6: in Hebrews 11? In Hebrews 11, we have an astounding 657 00:35:58,550 --> 00:36:03,989 S6: list of biblical people who trusted God. And they persevered 658 00:36:03,989 --> 00:36:07,989 S6: through trial. And sometimes they encounter joy, and sometimes they 659 00:36:07,989 --> 00:36:11,910 S6: encountered great pain. And they did it by faith, over 660 00:36:11,910 --> 00:36:15,580 S6: and over and over in chapter 11, by faith, by faith, 661 00:36:15,580 --> 00:36:19,220 S6: by faith. So the writer of Hebrews gives us that 662 00:36:19,219 --> 00:36:25,860 S6: cloud of witnesses Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Daniel, David, Sarah. They 663 00:36:25,860 --> 00:36:31,340 S6: testify that it's worth trusting God. So they are this 664 00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:34,779 S6: cloud of witnesses, if you will, around us testifying. You 665 00:36:34,780 --> 00:36:37,660 S6: can do this. God is worthy of your trust. 666 00:36:37,940 --> 00:36:40,460 S1: Okay, helpful. Thank you for that. And if you've got 667 00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:43,379 S1: a question, get an answer when you contact us at 668 00:36:43,420 --> 00:36:48,379 S1: The Land and the Book at Moody. Thanks, doctor Peterman. 669 00:36:48,380 --> 00:37:04,500 S1: Charlie Dyer returns next. From Moody Radio. This is the 670 00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:07,140 S1: land and the book. Our fourth and final segment. And 671 00:37:07,140 --> 00:37:10,219 S1: one not to be missed. Hi, I'm John Yeager, our host. 672 00:37:10,219 --> 00:37:14,610 S1: Doctor Charlie Dyer, with a very special Christmas themed devotional. Charlie, 673 00:37:14,610 --> 00:37:17,730 S1: I'm intrigued and encouraged that the Christmas story is not 674 00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:21,410 S1: just a story. It's a continuing part of a continuing, 675 00:37:21,450 --> 00:37:24,009 S1: larger story that goes, of course, all the way back 676 00:37:24,010 --> 00:37:27,089 S1: to the book of Genesis. Jesus in the Old Testament. 677 00:37:27,090 --> 00:37:29,969 S1: And you're about to take us to one such indication, 678 00:37:29,969 --> 00:37:30,690 S1: I understand. 679 00:37:31,090 --> 00:37:33,290 S2: Absolutely, John. And you know, I love it, too, because 680 00:37:33,290 --> 00:37:34,850 S2: when I go to Israel, I stand at the spot 681 00:37:34,850 --> 00:37:37,529 S2: and say, this is where it happened. Yeah. And it 682 00:37:37,530 --> 00:37:40,009 S2: gives that tangibility to this story that, you know, in 683 00:37:40,010 --> 00:37:42,730 S2: our minds, we love it. And you realize how real 684 00:37:42,730 --> 00:37:44,770 S2: it really is, how tangible it really is. 685 00:37:44,969 --> 00:37:46,810 S1: All right. We're going to let Charlie tell that story 686 00:37:46,810 --> 00:37:49,730 S1: in his fullness after we pause for this testimony from 687 00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:52,370 S1: someone who has also traveled to Israel and has this 688 00:37:52,370 --> 00:37:53,690 S1: memory to share with us. 689 00:37:57,890 --> 00:38:00,890 S8: Hi, my name is Kathy, and I was very surprised 690 00:38:00,890 --> 00:38:04,690 S8: that in Israel some people need to be called to worship. 691 00:38:04,969 --> 00:38:08,210 S8: Others pray at a wall where we can reach God 692 00:38:08,210 --> 00:38:09,570 S8: anytime we need to. 693 00:38:10,010 --> 00:38:13,520 S9: My name is Brent Slater, and I'm just absolutely thrilled 694 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,239 S9: to be here in the Holy Land. I've studied the 695 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,239 S9: Bible and taught it for over 30 years, but for me, 696 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,800 S9: the powerful experience was to be up in Galilee seeing 697 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,799 S9: two things the mountains where Jesus would go to be 698 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,399 S9: alone so solitary, and the compact cities like Capernaum, where 699 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,640 S9: he was totally surrounded by people caring for people and 700 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,120 S9: totally alone with his father. I'll never forget that. 701 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,560 S10: Hi, my name is Lisa Carlton and I'm from Florida, 702 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,440 S10: and I'm amazed at the land and the wonderful sights 703 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,640 S10: that we see in Israel and how it makes the 704 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,800 S10: Bible come alive. And I'd love to come back again. 705 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,160 S1: The birth in Bethlehem. I understand. We're headed to Micah 706 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,640 S1: chapter five. Charlie, have at it. 707 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,120 S2: Thanks, John. Yeah. Bethlehem. Along with Jerusalem and Nazareth. It 708 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,080 S2: remains a key stop for most pilgrims to the Holy Land. 709 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,640 S2: And this time of year, that tends to be even 710 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,589 S2: more true tourists travel to Manger Square. The church of 711 00:39:12,590 --> 00:39:15,630 S2: the Nativity and the scores of stores that line the 712 00:39:15,630 --> 00:39:18,669 S2: streets of this historic town. But there was a time 713 00:39:18,670 --> 00:39:21,870 S2: when Bethlehem was little more than a postage stamp sized 714 00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:24,830 S2: hamlet that didn't even show up on the road maps 715 00:39:24,830 --> 00:39:27,750 S2: of the day. Of course, the time I'm talking about 716 00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:31,430 S2: was nearly 3500 years ago. But when Israel first came 717 00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:34,989 S2: into the land, Bethlehem wasn't even important enough to be 718 00:39:34,989 --> 00:39:38,830 S2: listed as a town among the clans of Judah. It's true. 719 00:39:39,150 --> 00:39:42,430 S2: A Joshua 15 describes the land allotted to the tribe 720 00:39:42,430 --> 00:39:46,390 S2: of Judah clan by clan Joshua identifies the boundaries of 721 00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:49,629 S2: Judah's territory, and then he lists the key towns and 722 00:39:49,630 --> 00:39:53,589 S2: villages within that area. In verses 48 to 60, he 723 00:39:53,590 --> 00:39:57,550 S2: lists 38 towns in the hill country of Judah. But 724 00:39:57,550 --> 00:40:01,430 S2: Bethlehem isn't included in the list. It was too small, 725 00:40:01,469 --> 00:40:05,189 S2: too insignificant to be listed. It's not that the town 726 00:40:05,190 --> 00:40:09,460 S2: was totally unknown after all. Genesis 35 states that Rachel 727 00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:13,540 S2: died and was buried on the way to Efrat, that is, Bethlehem. 728 00:40:14,020 --> 00:40:17,020 S2: The place was known, but it just wasn't significant enough 729 00:40:17,020 --> 00:40:20,100 S2: to be named. Along with the other more strategic towns 730 00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:23,660 S2: and villages in the region settled by the clans of Judah. 731 00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:28,580 S2: So how did such an unimportant hamlet become so significant? Well, 732 00:40:28,580 --> 00:40:31,660 S2: certainly the love story of Ruth and Boaz must have helped. 733 00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:34,980 S2: Even more significant was the fact that Bethlehem was the 734 00:40:34,980 --> 00:40:38,060 S2: hometown of King David. For sure, that gave the town 735 00:40:38,060 --> 00:40:41,419 S2: a great deal of importance and respect. But even that 736 00:40:41,420 --> 00:40:47,020 S2: can't fully explain Bethlehem's later significance. To understand why Bethlehem 737 00:40:47,020 --> 00:40:49,620 S2: is so important, we need to turn once again to 738 00:40:49,660 --> 00:40:52,660 S2: the words of Micah, the prophet. The most well known 739 00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:56,219 S2: message spoken by that prophet is Micah five two but 740 00:40:56,219 --> 00:40:59,020 S2: as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah too little to be among 741 00:40:59,020 --> 00:41:02,020 S2: the clans of Judah. From you one will go forth 742 00:41:02,020 --> 00:41:04,980 S2: for me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth 743 00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:08,330 S2: are from long ago, from the days of eternity. If 744 00:41:08,370 --> 00:41:11,370 S2: you look carefully at those words, you can actually see 745 00:41:11,410 --> 00:41:15,330 S2: two key points Micah was emphasizing. First, he looks at 746 00:41:15,330 --> 00:41:20,009 S2: the city Bethlehem Ephrata Bethlehem means house of bread, and 747 00:41:20,010 --> 00:41:23,850 S2: Ephrata comes from a word meaning fruitful. Bethlehem was a 748 00:41:23,850 --> 00:41:27,490 S2: pleasant enough place, a place known for its bounty and fruitfulness, 749 00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:31,770 S2: but a place otherwise indistinguishable from other locations in the 750 00:41:31,770 --> 00:41:35,730 S2: land that were also productive and fruitful. Micah reminds his 751 00:41:35,730 --> 00:41:38,209 S2: readers that the town was too little to be among 752 00:41:38,210 --> 00:41:41,690 S2: the clans of Judah. It was so insignificant it didn't 753 00:41:41,690 --> 00:41:45,010 S2: even get included in the list of towns divided up 754 00:41:45,050 --> 00:41:49,290 S2: among the clans in Joshua 15, Bethlehem had nothing in 755 00:41:49,290 --> 00:41:52,049 S2: and of itself that made it special, and that's when 756 00:41:52,050 --> 00:41:55,370 S2: Micah added his second point of emphasis as he turned 757 00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:58,290 S2: from the city to the sovereign. And in doing so, 758 00:41:58,290 --> 00:42:01,049 S2: he makes it very clear that the words he's sharing 759 00:42:01,050 --> 00:42:04,410 S2: are the words of God Himself. From you one will 760 00:42:04,410 --> 00:42:08,279 S2: go forth for me to be ruler in Israel. Bethlehem 761 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,799 S2: was significant because God chose it to be the birthplace 762 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,680 S2: of his Messiah. David and his son Solomon were the 763 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,399 S2: only two kings from his line to rule over all Israel. 764 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,680 S2: Following Solomon's death, the kingdom divided in two. Solomon's son 765 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,480 S2: Rehoboam only ruled over Judah, not over all Israel, but 766 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,920 S2: Micah announced that a new king, a new sovereign born 767 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,000 S2: in Bethlehem, just as his ancestor David will arise, and 768 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,680 S2: this new king will rule again over a united Kingdom 769 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,560 S2: of Israel. But who is this sovereign? Micah's explanation must 770 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,839 S2: have had his listeners scratching their heads. This king to 771 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,560 S2: be born in Bethlehem was no ordinary man. His origins 772 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,960 S2: are from long ago, from the days of eternity. Well, 773 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,799 S2: what could that mean? Micah actually helped supply the answer 774 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,279 S2: in the very last verse of his book. There he 775 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,080 S2: announces God's future blessing for Israel and says, God made 776 00:43:04,219 --> 00:43:07,900 S2: a pledge on oath to our forefathers, that is, to Abraham, 777 00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:11,700 S2: Isaac and Jacob in the days of old. The English 778 00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:15,940 S2: words days of old are the Hebrew words Mimi kedem 779 00:43:15,940 --> 00:43:20,100 S2: from ancient days. The word kedem means ancient or old. 780 00:43:20,340 --> 00:43:23,580 S2: And in Micah 720 it's used to describe God's promises 781 00:43:23,580 --> 00:43:27,700 S2: to the patriarchs 1300 years earlier. Now, if you were 782 00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:30,180 S2: looking for a word to describe something that took place 783 00:43:30,180 --> 00:43:33,419 S2: 1300 years ago, ancient would be a pretty good word, 784 00:43:33,420 --> 00:43:37,500 S2: wouldn't it? Why is this important? Because Micah uses the 785 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:40,459 S2: same word in five two. The child to be born 786 00:43:40,460 --> 00:43:45,140 S2: had already existed. Macadam from ancient times. But then Micah 787 00:43:45,140 --> 00:43:48,060 S2: adds a second phrase the child to be born is 788 00:43:48,060 --> 00:43:52,700 S2: from days of old, days of eternity. If kedem refers 789 00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:56,500 S2: to something ancient, Olam was something even older. He was 790 00:43:56,500 --> 00:44:00,860 S2: around long before these promises were made to Abraham. Micah 791 00:44:00,860 --> 00:44:03,810 S2: is saying, A child will be born, but this child 792 00:44:03,810 --> 00:44:07,330 S2: existed long before his birth in Bethlehem from the days 793 00:44:07,330 --> 00:44:11,050 S2: of eternity. Those words must have seemed like an enigma 794 00:44:11,050 --> 00:44:14,290 S2: to the people of his day. But from our vantage point, 795 00:44:14,290 --> 00:44:17,009 S2: we can see that God was pointing to the incarnation, 796 00:44:17,010 --> 00:44:20,330 S2: that point in history where the eternal Son of God 797 00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:23,569 S2: took on himself human flesh, to be born in a 798 00:44:23,570 --> 00:44:27,450 S2: manger in Bethlehem. God chose the city of Bethlehem as 799 00:44:27,450 --> 00:44:30,450 S2: the stage to announce good news of great joy, which 800 00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:34,050 S2: shall be for all the peoples. On that first Christmas night, 801 00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:37,010 S2: the child born in a stable that night had already 802 00:44:37,010 --> 00:44:41,969 S2: existed from days of eternity past. He was and is 803 00:44:41,969 --> 00:44:46,130 S2: a Savior. Who is Christ the Lord. But what present 804 00:44:46,130 --> 00:44:49,090 S2: might God have wrapped up in Micah five two for 805 00:44:49,090 --> 00:44:55,090 S2: us this Christmas season? Perhaps it's this nothing is insignificant 806 00:44:55,090 --> 00:44:58,969 S2: if it's part of God's eternal plan. Bethlehem might have 807 00:44:58,969 --> 00:45:02,400 S2: seemed too insignificant to be listed among the cities assigned 808 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,839 S2: to the clans of Judah. But God chose this village 809 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,720 S2: to be the hometown of King David and the hometown 810 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,480 S2: of the one who was even greater than David, whose 811 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,680 S2: goings forth are from days of eternity. Whatever your background, 812 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:20,880 S2: whatever your limitations or weaknesses or failures or insecurities, you 813 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,640 S2: have significance. If you've entered into a personal relationship with 814 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,320 S2: the God of the universe through faith in His Son. 815 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,919 S2: First John 410 describes it this way. In this is 816 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,280 S2: love not that we loved God, but that he loved 817 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,359 S2: us and sent His Son to be the propitiation, the 818 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,200 S2: atoning sacrifice for our sins. If you've never put your 819 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,960 S2: trust in Christ, I can't think of a better gift 820 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,359 S2: to receive this Christmas than the gift of forgiveness and 821 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,239 S2: eternal life, and the love of an eternal Heavenly Father. 822 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,600 S2: The gift has already been purchased, and now it's just 823 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,560 S2: waiting for you to receive it. 824 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,549 S1: Thank you Charlie. And maybe that's you saying, yeah, I 825 00:46:00,550 --> 00:46:03,189 S1: get it. I want this Christ to be more than 826 00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:05,190 S1: a Christmas story. I want him as the leader of 827 00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:07,830 S1: my life, the forgiver of my sins. You can have 828 00:46:07,830 --> 00:46:10,070 S1: a conversation with a volunteer who would love to answer 829 00:46:10,070 --> 00:46:13,310 S1: your questions. Who's happy to pray with you? There's no pressure. 830 00:46:13,310 --> 00:46:15,550 S1: There's no cost. There's nothing to buy, so there's nothing 831 00:46:15,550 --> 00:46:20,310 S1: to sell. It's you having an open, honest conversation about Jesus, 832 00:46:20,310 --> 00:46:22,750 S1: the Christ who came at Christmas. So pick up your phone, 833 00:46:22,750 --> 00:46:27,030 S1: will you, and call eight, eight, eight. Need him? That's eight. 834 00:46:27,110 --> 00:46:30,549 S1: Need him. Charlie. Sure hope you and Kathy have a 835 00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:31,950 S1: great Christmas at your house. 836 00:46:32,350 --> 00:46:34,070 S2: Thank you John, we're looking forward to it. 837 00:46:34,070 --> 00:46:36,150 S1: And to all of you who make the land of 838 00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:37,950 S1: the book such a pleasure. We thank you as well 839 00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:40,670 S1: for listening week in and week out. Hope you have 840 00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:43,430 S1: a blessed Christmas at your house too! On behalf of 841 00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:46,990 S1: our producer, Dan Anderson, our host, Charlie Dyer, I'm John Gager, 842 00:46:46,989 --> 00:46:49,670 S1: inviting you back for a New Year edition of The 843 00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:52,750 S1: Land and the book, a production of Moody Radio, a 844 00:46:52,750 --> 00:46:54,830 S1: ministry of Moody Bible Institute.