1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,440 S1: Welcome, friend, to the continuing conversation at the radio backyard fence. 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,400 S1: I'm Chris Fabry, this is Chris Fabry live. The program 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,360 S1: from the heart to the heart for the heart. Today, 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,639 S1: a visit with our biblical compadre who makes up half 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,360 S1: of the team of the two Michaels Doctor Michael Redlich. 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,200 S1: Now don't be concerned. Doctor Van Landingham is going to 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:25,920 S1: join us a little later in the month for our 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,040 S1: two Michaels visit. We talk about the Bible, but today 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,520 S1: it is one Michael and a huge topic that is 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,320 S1: controversial and continues to be how should Christians think about Israel? 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,400 S1: And this is going to be frank and open. So 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,839 S1: prepare yourself today. It's also going to be recorded. Michael 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,360 S1: couldn't be with us live today. So we're recording this. 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,320 S1: So I'm going to begin with a thank you. I 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,760 S1: was reading Colossians three today and I saw this two 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,120 S1: words be thankful. So I am thankful for Ryan McConaughey 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,280 S1: doing all things technical. Tricia, our producer, and others who 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,440 S1: contribute behind the scenes. Lisa and Josh and Ananda. ET cetera, 19 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,920 S1: et cetera. And for you who listen, I am thankful 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,080 S1: for you because you help us keep going every day 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,200 S1: with this conversation. And this month, our gift to you 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,080 S1: is a book by Doctor Rudnick. I was so excited 23 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,440 S1: when I heard it was coming out. How should Christians 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:26,120 S1: think about Israel? Go to the website Chris. You will 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,280 S1: see how you can get a copy just for supporting 26 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:35,360 S1: us today. Or call the number 86695. He is Professor 27 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,240 S1: Emeritus of Jewish Studies at and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. 28 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,080 S1: Host and Bible teacher on Moody Radio's Open Line with 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:48,560 S1: Doctor Michael Rudnick answering listener questions on 325 stations nationwide. 30 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,480 S1: Is that an inflated number? Is that real, Michael? 31 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,520 S2: Uh, that's what I got just about at the beginning 32 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,560 S2: of the summer, uh, when we added a whole bunch 33 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:57,960 S2: of stations in Texas. 34 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,080 S1: Yeah, it's probably more by now. The son of Holocaust survivors, 35 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,560 S1: Michael became a follower of Jesus as a teenager. He's 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,919 S1: written a number of books. He's co-editor with Doctor Van 37 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,680 S1: Landingham of the Moody Bible Commentary. But, Michael, welcome to 38 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,120 S1: the Thursday Edition and thanks for doing this. Even though 39 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,840 S1: we're recording it, I think it's going to be an 40 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,680 S1: exciting conversation. What do you think? 41 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,960 S2: Well thank you. You know, uh, we can fix the 42 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,240 S2: wrong things then if if I record this. Right, if 43 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,600 S2: I get something wrong. Yeah. There we go. 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,160 S1: Uh, okay. So jump into this. This is is this 45 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,240 S1: more controversial than you thought it would be when you 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,440 S1: released this? I think it was back in November when 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,480 S1: the little book came out. Right? 48 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,480 S2: Yeah. By the time November came around, I thought, okay, 49 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,680 S2: this is going to get some controversy, but I'll tell you, 50 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,280 S2: when Moody Publishers asked me to quick produce a book 51 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,920 S2: back in June and they said, can you write it 52 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,720 S2: in the month of July really quick because we think 53 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,360 S2: this is going to be an issue. I thought by 54 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,959 S2: the time it was released, people would forget that this 55 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,520 S2: was an issue. And so, uh, I guess I when 56 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,840 S2: I wrote it, I didn't expect the controversy by the 57 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,959 S2: time it came out, as I saw the growing controversy 58 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,760 S2: about it. Uh, yes, I, I thought, okay, by by 59 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,079 S2: the time of publication. Yes. But when I wrote it, 60 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:18,200 S2: I didn't expect it. 61 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:25,240 S1: What is the controversy? Why are people, uh, saying things 62 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,400 S1: or saying the things that they're saying about how should 63 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,880 S1: Christians think about Israel? 64 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,239 S2: Well, I think the controversy is there seems to be 65 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:38,480 S2: a growing anti-Semitism. I hate using that word. Uh, I'll 66 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,000 S2: tell you why in a minute. But a growing hatred 67 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:48,880 S2: of Jewish people, particularly among, uh, people who profess to 68 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:55,440 S2: be followers of Jesus. And as a result, uh, there's 69 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,800 S2: amazing pushback. Now, one of the things that Moody Publishers 70 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:05,440 S2: did is they advertised it quite extensively on social media, 71 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,480 S2: and I think it's going to continue because your program, 72 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:14,120 S2: they'll use, uh, this because you're offering it this month. Uh, 73 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,600 S2: they'll advertise on social media. And I look at the 74 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:23,880 S2: comments and there's a horrific anger against Jewish people by 75 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:29,000 S2: people who are reading this, the the advertisement, and they 76 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:34,520 S2: are quoting Bible verses and they out of context, obviously, uh, 77 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,120 S2: they're ignoring what the Bible, the whole counsel of God, 78 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,920 S2: what it says about God's love for the Jewish people, 79 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,840 S2: they and they're they're just it's almost like, I would 80 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,479 S2: say a fury against Jewish people. And, you know, I 81 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:54,159 S2: have my theories as to why this is, but, uh, nevertheless, uh, 82 00:04:54,210 --> 00:04:57,610 S2: it's that's the controversy. And I do want to say 83 00:04:57,610 --> 00:05:00,610 S2: that's not the only comment. There are hundreds of people 84 00:05:00,610 --> 00:05:05,650 S2: who are saying very positive things and, uh, appreciative of 85 00:05:05,650 --> 00:05:10,330 S2: the book and things like that. The the online reviews 86 00:05:10,330 --> 00:05:13,130 S2: have been very strong, and I'm really grateful for it. 87 00:05:14,050 --> 00:05:17,370 S2: But I didn't expect this to be controversial where there 88 00:05:17,370 --> 00:05:20,450 S2: would be all these kind of angry comments. 89 00:05:20,970 --> 00:05:24,090 S1: Yeah. And I think that I think you've put your 90 00:05:24,089 --> 00:05:26,970 S1: finger on something that it's and maybe that's what we 91 00:05:26,970 --> 00:05:30,570 S1: can talk mostly about, because it's one thing to talk about, uh, 92 00:05:31,089 --> 00:05:34,530 S1: anti-Semitism in, in the culture. It's another thing to talk 93 00:05:34,529 --> 00:05:37,130 S1: about it in the church or the way that it's 94 00:05:37,130 --> 00:05:40,409 S1: coming out. So you just said a minute ago, I 95 00:05:40,410 --> 00:05:43,970 S1: don't like that word. I don't like to use anti-Semitism. 96 00:05:43,970 --> 00:05:45,450 S1: Why don't you like to use that? 97 00:05:46,450 --> 00:05:49,370 S2: Well, it's a 19th century word developed by someone by 98 00:05:49,370 --> 00:05:53,810 S2: the name of Wilhelm Marr. He was a hater of 99 00:05:53,810 --> 00:05:58,450 S2: Jewish people in Germany, and he thought that the German 100 00:05:58,450 --> 00:06:02,090 S2: term judenhass was so vulgar. So he wanted to come 101 00:06:02,089 --> 00:06:05,730 S2: up with a more scientific term, and he came up 102 00:06:05,730 --> 00:06:08,810 S2: with anti-Semitism. And that's the word he used. And he 103 00:06:08,810 --> 00:06:13,450 S2: founded a political party called the anti-Semitic League. And, uh, 104 00:06:13,450 --> 00:06:16,930 S2: because what they did is they equated there was a 105 00:06:16,970 --> 00:06:20,810 S2: lot of theories of race that are totally discredited now, 106 00:06:21,010 --> 00:06:24,890 S2: and they chose to call all Jewish people, not everyone 107 00:06:24,890 --> 00:06:28,650 S2: that spoke Semitic languages, but Jewish people who spoke Hebrew 108 00:06:29,089 --> 00:06:33,289 S2: or knew Hebrew. Uh, they were called Semites because it 109 00:06:33,290 --> 00:06:36,490 S2: was a Semitic language. And they made it a race, 110 00:06:36,650 --> 00:06:39,690 S2: and it referred exclusively to Jewish people. And they thought, well, 111 00:06:39,730 --> 00:06:46,130 S2: this sounds much more, uh, uh, that we're opposed to 112 00:06:46,170 --> 00:06:51,730 S2: the unchangeable biological evil of Jewish people. And so, uh, 113 00:06:52,450 --> 00:06:55,450 S2: I like using the more vulgar term Jew hate or 114 00:06:55,490 --> 00:06:58,690 S2: hatred of the Jewish people, because that's what it is. 115 00:06:58,930 --> 00:07:01,810 S2: And and I don't I don't like it that the 116 00:07:01,810 --> 00:07:04,210 S2: term that Wilhelm Ma used to try and clean it 117 00:07:04,210 --> 00:07:06,930 S2: up has become the standard term for the hatred of 118 00:07:06,930 --> 00:07:07,849 S2: the Jewish people. 119 00:07:08,210 --> 00:07:11,250 S1: That's Doctor Michael Rudnick. And today on the program, we're 120 00:07:11,250 --> 00:07:14,170 S1: going to do a deep dive into this quick guide 121 00:07:14,170 --> 00:07:17,970 S1: to God's covenants, biblical prophecy, and the Jewish people. It's 122 00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:22,290 S1: titled How Should Christians Think about Israel? By Doctor Michael Rudnick. 123 00:07:22,330 --> 00:07:25,610 S1: It's short. It's just about 100 pages. But there's a 124 00:07:25,610 --> 00:07:28,610 S1: lot in here, and we're going to talk about it today. 125 00:07:28,610 --> 00:07:31,090 S1: If you'd like a copy, give a gift of any 126 00:07:31,090 --> 00:07:35,130 S1: size to Chris Fabry live at the website. Chris Fabry lives. 127 00:07:35,610 --> 00:07:38,210 S1: Scroll down. You'll see a picture of it right there 128 00:07:38,210 --> 00:07:41,410 S1: and how you can support us and receive this book. 129 00:07:41,450 --> 00:07:49,170 S1: Or use that number (866) 953-2279. We'll continue more straight ahead 130 00:07:49,170 --> 00:08:00,450 S1: here on Moody Radio. This is Chris Fabry live on 131 00:08:00,490 --> 00:08:03,490 S1: Moody Radio. Doctor Michael Rudnick is in the house here 132 00:08:03,490 --> 00:08:06,570 S1: on this Thursday, but we're not live with you today, 133 00:08:06,570 --> 00:08:09,890 S1: even though the program says Chris Fabry live, we are recorded, 134 00:08:09,890 --> 00:08:12,290 S1: so don't call us today, but do go to the website. 135 00:08:12,290 --> 00:08:15,490 S1: Chris Fabry lives. We have a great thank you. As 136 00:08:15,490 --> 00:08:18,970 S1: I just mentioned before the break, how should Christians think 137 00:08:18,970 --> 00:08:22,610 S1: about Israel is our thank you all this month and 138 00:08:22,610 --> 00:08:25,450 S1: Doctor Adeleke is here to talk about some of the 139 00:08:25,450 --> 00:08:29,170 S1: the pushback of this and why. Uh, so go to Chris. 140 00:08:31,330 --> 00:08:33,930 S1: And you'll see more about it right there. Okay. You've 141 00:08:33,970 --> 00:08:38,050 S1: told us about why you don't like anti-Semitism. Uh, you 142 00:08:38,090 --> 00:08:43,130 S1: prefer the term Jew hate. How could that be in 143 00:08:43,170 --> 00:08:46,530 S1: the church? I don't understand how that could be coming 144 00:08:46,530 --> 00:08:50,530 S1: from people who are people who read, supposedly read the Bible. 145 00:08:51,090 --> 00:08:56,530 S2: Yeah, that's kind of shocking to me, but, uh. What? 146 00:08:57,410 --> 00:09:00,850 S2: There's a long history from about the second century with 147 00:09:00,850 --> 00:09:06,730 S2: Justin Martyr, uh, which began this idea of replacement theology. 148 00:09:07,330 --> 00:09:10,250 S2: It's not from the scriptures, I don't believe. But really, 149 00:09:10,290 --> 00:09:15,010 S2: it was a an erroneous teaching begun by Justin Martyr, uh, 150 00:09:15,010 --> 00:09:18,290 S2: in the second century that the church had replaced Israel 151 00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:20,610 S2: and that all the promises that God had made to 152 00:09:20,650 --> 00:09:23,130 S2: the Jewish people had now been transferred to the church. 153 00:09:23,290 --> 00:09:27,810 S2: And then that became by the fourth, fifth century, uh, 154 00:09:27,929 --> 00:09:33,490 S2: with very key leaders like Saint Augustine and other church 155 00:09:33,530 --> 00:09:37,010 S2: fathers like Saint John Chrysostom, who were the most influential 156 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:40,689 S2: Church Fathers in the West and the East, they adopted 157 00:09:40,690 --> 00:09:46,570 S2: such hateful attitudes about Jewish people because of replacement theology 158 00:09:46,610 --> 00:09:52,490 S2: previously before them, replacement theology was much more about rejecting Judaism, 159 00:09:53,450 --> 00:09:57,010 S2: but still concerned for the Jewish people with the these 160 00:09:57,010 --> 00:10:00,330 S2: other Church fathers. It grew into a hatred of the 161 00:10:00,330 --> 00:10:05,809 S2: Jewish people, and that became pretty much foundational up until 162 00:10:06,490 --> 00:10:09,530 S2: we came to the Holocaust. And after the Holocaust, the 163 00:10:09,530 --> 00:10:13,650 S2: church began to rethink replacement theology because they saw the 164 00:10:13,690 --> 00:10:21,210 S2: tragic outcomes of it. Uh, however, uh, I do believe 165 00:10:21,290 --> 00:10:25,010 S2: a couple of things. One, there's been a growing resurgence 166 00:10:25,010 --> 00:10:30,449 S2: of replacement theology. For one thing, also, I believe that 167 00:10:31,090 --> 00:10:35,609 S2: Doctor Arthur W Kark is right. He was an author, 168 00:10:35,809 --> 00:10:38,770 S2: a medical doctor who wrote about Israel quite extensively, a 169 00:10:38,770 --> 00:10:42,330 S2: Jewish believer of a previous generation. He talked about how 170 00:10:42,450 --> 00:10:46,330 S2: hatred of the Jewish people is endemic. Uh, as a physician, 171 00:10:46,330 --> 00:10:49,530 S2: he talked about that there are certainties, diseases that lie 172 00:10:49,570 --> 00:10:55,809 S2: under the surface, and periodically they come out as epidemic 173 00:10:55,809 --> 00:11:00,090 S2: or in pandemic proportion. And I think what has happened 174 00:11:00,370 --> 00:11:03,490 S2: since this summer, remember I said I didn't think it 175 00:11:03,490 --> 00:11:11,610 S2: was going to be controversial, but with people, podcasters like, uh, 176 00:11:13,250 --> 00:11:18,490 S2: I'll be blunt. Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens, uh, stating 177 00:11:18,890 --> 00:11:23,689 S2: their hatred. And I think presenting things that are false 178 00:11:23,850 --> 00:11:27,090 S2: about Jewish people and being open and saying, I'm a 179 00:11:27,090 --> 00:11:29,410 S2: Christian and this is how I feel. I'm a Christian 180 00:11:29,410 --> 00:11:31,890 S2: and we're the true Israel. I'm a Christian, and the 181 00:11:31,890 --> 00:11:36,530 S2: Jewish people are. And then they repeat, uh, terrible allegations, uh, 182 00:11:37,330 --> 00:11:40,250 S2: or about Israel. The result is, I think it has 183 00:11:40,250 --> 00:11:46,930 S2: given this underlying antisemitism people who held it a freedom 184 00:11:46,929 --> 00:11:50,210 S2: to express their opinion. I think that's part of it. 185 00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:54,689 S2: I think also there's been a linkage with American patriotism 186 00:11:55,809 --> 00:12:00,290 S2: and faith in Jesus that that some people have called 187 00:12:00,290 --> 00:12:05,330 S2: this Christian nationalism. And what they are doing, uh, is 188 00:12:05,370 --> 00:12:08,770 S2: they're saying that people this is a Christian nation and 189 00:12:08,770 --> 00:12:15,090 S2: people who are not Christian are at best, uh, second 190 00:12:15,090 --> 00:12:19,450 S2: class citizens, but at worst, enemies of the state. And, uh, 191 00:12:19,450 --> 00:12:22,050 S2: there's been a lot of talk like that about Jewish 192 00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:29,130 S2: people actually being underminers, uh, those who are working underground 193 00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:33,530 S2: to destroy the United States of America, which is horrific. 194 00:12:33,970 --> 00:12:37,210 S1: Let me jump on that, because we had, uh, AJ 195 00:12:37,250 --> 00:12:41,370 S1: Swoboda on with us on Monday and he, uh, in 196 00:12:41,370 --> 00:12:45,819 S1: his classes said that he does this experiment where he 197 00:12:45,860 --> 00:12:49,140 S1: throws out Hitler's Mein Kampf and he said, what should 198 00:12:49,140 --> 00:12:52,220 S1: we do with Mein Kampf? Should we? Should we burn it? 199 00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:57,100 S1: Should we, uh, expose it? You know, should we, should 200 00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:59,060 S1: we read it? What should we do? And they go 201 00:12:59,059 --> 00:13:01,699 S1: back and forth in the class. And what you just 202 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:05,860 S1: mentioned about the podcasters and what's going on in in society. 203 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:08,340 S1: There's part of me that thinks, oh, we need to, 204 00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:11,340 S1: you know, get this out of here. But if it's 205 00:13:11,340 --> 00:13:14,220 S1: already there, if the fellow that you mentioned just a 206 00:13:14,220 --> 00:13:18,260 S1: minute ago, the disease is there, it's better to expose it. 207 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:21,380 S1: It's better to see it. So, as repugnant as it 208 00:13:21,380 --> 00:13:24,780 S1: is for what you were talking about, the response of 209 00:13:24,780 --> 00:13:28,140 S1: people even in the church, as repugnant as that is, 210 00:13:28,340 --> 00:13:30,820 S1: isn't it better to bring that into light so that 211 00:13:30,820 --> 00:13:32,580 S1: we can see what's really going on? 212 00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:37,140 S2: I don't think there's anything bad about bringing it into 213 00:13:37,140 --> 00:13:42,380 S2: the light. What I think is problematic is platforming it 214 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:48,460 S2: as an alternative view. Uh, it's one thing, uh, for example, if, if, 215 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:54,380 S2: if I could have, uh, an opportunity to interview on 216 00:13:54,380 --> 00:13:56,699 S2: my radio program, it's not my style of program, but 217 00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:59,740 S2: if I were interviewing some of these podcasters, I wouldn't 218 00:13:59,740 --> 00:14:03,740 S2: hesitate to bring them on, but I certainly would challenge them. Uh. 219 00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:09,140 S2: What's happened? Tucker Carlson had Nick Fuentes, a white supremacist 220 00:14:09,260 --> 00:14:14,100 S2: hater of Jewish people, on his program and gave him 221 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:18,300 S2: a benign interview. Uh, you know, friendly instead of challenging it. 222 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:19,980 S2: So I don't think it's a problem. I mean, I 223 00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:22,540 S2: would have I would have played all sorts of clips 224 00:14:22,540 --> 00:14:26,980 S2: of what Nick Fuentes has said and challenge him about, uh, 225 00:14:26,980 --> 00:14:29,780 S2: what he was saying. That's not what they're doing. And 226 00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:31,740 S2: so I think it's not a matter of free speech. 227 00:14:31,740 --> 00:14:34,180 S2: People have podcasts. They can do what they want on them. 228 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:42,140 S2: What I'm concerned about are legitimate, uh, organizations, Media companies 229 00:14:42,460 --> 00:14:46,460 S2: that are presenting this as just an alternative view. Uh, 230 00:14:46,660 --> 00:14:49,180 S2: you know, this is what some Christians think. Other Christians 231 00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:53,940 S2: think other things. Uh, I think that that is totally unacceptable. 232 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:56,340 S1: Okay. So what are some of the things that you're 233 00:14:56,340 --> 00:15:00,900 S1: reading then online that Christians or those who are purporting 234 00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:05,300 S1: to be Christians are saying that have caught your eye, 235 00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:06,380 S1: your antenna? 236 00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:12,700 S2: Well, uh, of course there's that angry replacement theology. There 237 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:15,220 S2: are many people who have held to replacement theology which 238 00:15:15,220 --> 00:15:19,300 S2: have not engaged in hatred of the Jewish people. They 239 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:21,340 S2: might say the Jewish people are just like every other 240 00:15:21,340 --> 00:15:24,780 S2: nation that needs to know Jesus, but don't have a 241 00:15:24,820 --> 00:15:27,420 S2: particular hate for them. But what I'm seeing now is 242 00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:31,220 S2: this angry replacement theology where verses are taken about God 243 00:15:31,220 --> 00:15:34,540 S2: having rejected the Jewish people for all time. Not really 244 00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:37,060 S2: what they are saying. Uh, they might take a verse 245 00:15:37,060 --> 00:15:40,980 S2: where it's talking about a particular person or something like that, And, uh, 246 00:15:41,020 --> 00:15:45,620 S2: and then making it a wholesale rejection of Jewish people. Uh, 247 00:15:45,620 --> 00:15:48,460 S2: so that's one of the things I'm seeing without any 248 00:15:48,460 --> 00:15:51,980 S2: recognition of verses like the Lord Jesus saying, you won't 249 00:15:51,980 --> 00:15:57,100 S2: see me. This is in Matthew 2337 that I won't return. Basically, 250 00:15:57,140 --> 00:16:00,100 S2: he says to the Jewish people, I won't return until 251 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:02,820 S2: you welcome me back. And fully anticipating the day when 252 00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:06,820 S2: the Jewish people will receive him. Uh, some of these 253 00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:11,020 S2: comments ignore the future that God has for Israel. Uh, 254 00:16:11,020 --> 00:16:14,180 S2: they ignore verses like Romans 1128 and 29, where the 255 00:16:14,180 --> 00:16:18,300 S2: Jewish people, even in unbelief, remain chosen or elect and 256 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:21,220 S2: beloved for the sake of the fathers, because the gifts 257 00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:24,820 S2: and calling of God are irrevocable. So when I see that, 258 00:16:25,260 --> 00:16:28,260 S2: that's problematic. But I think there's something in the news 259 00:16:28,260 --> 00:16:30,460 S2: from this weekend that really just. 260 00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:32,980 S1: Want to mention that in Mississippi, right? Is that what 261 00:16:32,980 --> 00:16:33,460 S1: you're talking about? 262 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:37,780 S2: Yeah. Uh, I've been seeing a lot of comments on 263 00:16:37,780 --> 00:16:42,220 S2: And social media about advertising for this book, about the 264 00:16:42,220 --> 00:16:47,140 S2: Jewish people being uniquely satanic and the calling all Jews. 265 00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:50,700 S2: The synagogue of Satan. And what happened this weekend is 266 00:16:50,740 --> 00:16:55,820 S2: the historic synagogue in Jackson, Mississippi, was set afire, set 267 00:16:55,820 --> 00:17:02,340 S2: ablaze by an arsonist. When caught, the arsonist said two 268 00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:04,260 S2: things in the article that really. 269 00:17:04,260 --> 00:17:06,699 S1: Interested in there? Just make sure that we say alleged. 270 00:17:06,740 --> 00:17:08,419 S2: Well, he confessed. 271 00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:10,180 S1: He confessed to it. Okay. All right. 272 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:14,020 S2: Okay. He confessed to doing it. Uh, that's in the indictment. 273 00:17:14,020 --> 00:17:17,260 S2: And when he confessed, he said, uh, this is his victory. 274 00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:22,180 S2: He set afire the synagogue of Satan. And, uh, then 275 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:26,100 S2: at his, uh, the judge asked him if he understood 276 00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:29,619 S2: his right to an attorney. He said, yes, Jesus Christ 277 00:17:29,619 --> 00:17:33,540 S2: is Lord. So here's a man who has been quoting 278 00:17:33,540 --> 00:17:39,580 S2: the Bible, uh, on his social media extensively. And yet 279 00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:42,900 S2: taking this verse in revelation two nine and three nine, 280 00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:46,300 S2: these two verses which talk about the synagogue of Satan 281 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:51,060 S2: and applying them holistically and exclusively to the Jewish people. 282 00:17:51,420 --> 00:17:52,100 S1: And that's. 283 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:52,980 S2: A problematic. 284 00:17:53,780 --> 00:17:58,220 S1: Problematic is a is a very, uh, light word to use. 285 00:17:58,260 --> 00:18:02,260 S1: The sun quote laughed as he told his father what 286 00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:06,620 S1: he did and said he finally got them. That's also 287 00:18:06,619 --> 00:18:11,939 S1: from the affidavit. Um, and, uh, purchased gasoline at the 288 00:18:12,340 --> 00:18:14,820 S1: such and such a gas station, remove the license plate 289 00:18:14,820 --> 00:18:17,340 S1: from his truck. So it's like this wasn't done in 290 00:18:17,340 --> 00:18:22,620 S1: a hasty way. You know, it was planned out premeditated. 291 00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:29,100 S1: And so using that, uh, synagogue of Satan, which is 292 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,300 S1: from revelation two and three. Right. 293 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:37,139 S2: Yeah. There's, uh, two churches which are warned about the 294 00:18:37,140 --> 00:18:41,379 S2: synagogue of Satan. And, uh, now there's a couple of 295 00:18:41,380 --> 00:18:44,300 S2: ways that people have looked at it. Some have said, uh, 296 00:18:44,780 --> 00:18:50,380 S2: some interpreters of revelation chapter two and three say that 297 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:52,660 S2: this is talking about a particular Jewish group that was 298 00:18:52,660 --> 00:18:58,180 S2: persecuting the church. It wasn't talking globally about all Jewish people, 299 00:18:58,180 --> 00:19:03,139 S2: just two synagogues that were attacking Christians, and they were 300 00:19:03,140 --> 00:19:05,660 S2: called the Synagogue of Satan. I don't even think that's 301 00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:08,020 S2: what it is, but that's how some have interpreted that. 302 00:19:08,140 --> 00:19:11,100 S2: And these interpreters, if I've looked at a lot of 303 00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:14,219 S2: commentaries on revelation, will say this should never be applied 304 00:19:14,260 --> 00:19:16,820 S2: generally to the Jewish people. When you think about where 305 00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:18,739 S2: did the Lord Jesus preach? He went to all the 306 00:19:18,740 --> 00:19:23,740 S2: synagogues of Galilee. Uh, would he really go to institutions 307 00:19:23,740 --> 00:19:26,700 S2: that were all satanic? Where did Paul go and preach 308 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:29,580 S2: when he spread the gospel? Always start in the synagogue. 309 00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:33,859 S2: You have in acts 17 the Bereans synagogue, uh, and 310 00:19:33,859 --> 00:19:36,660 S2: the brilliant synagogue were noble minded and searched the scriptures 311 00:19:36,660 --> 00:19:39,300 S2: to see if the things that Paul was teaching was true. 312 00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:43,740 S2: So we've got it's hard to equate all synagogues with 313 00:19:43,780 --> 00:19:48,139 S2: Satan also. You know, we have to be really careful. Uh, 314 00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:52,740 S2: in First John chapter five, it says that the whole 315 00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:57,820 S2: world is under the influence of the evil one of Satan. 316 00:19:58,660 --> 00:20:01,820 S2: In Second Corinthians four four it says that Satan has 317 00:20:01,820 --> 00:20:05,500 S2: blinded the eyes of all unbelievers. Now, none of us 318 00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:08,740 S2: would say, oh, look, they're all under the sway of Satan. 319 00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:13,859 S2: Let's hate the world because the Bible says, For God 320 00:20:13,859 --> 00:20:16,300 S2: so loved the world. We can't hate every person out 321 00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:19,300 S2: there that doesn't believe. We have to have compassion for 322 00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:21,980 S2: the lost. Uh, the Lord Jesus looked at those who 323 00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:28,940 S2: were like sheep without a shepherd and had compassion for them. So, uh, 324 00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:32,420 S2: I think it's really important to see that the the words, 325 00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:35,109 S2: these kinds of words are used not just of Jewish people, 326 00:20:35,109 --> 00:20:39,030 S2: they're used of all non-believers. And, uh, but I happen 327 00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:41,630 S2: to think that revelation two nine and three nine has 328 00:20:41,630 --> 00:20:45,150 S2: a different meaning. Uh, Charles Feinberg, great dean, founding dean 329 00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:49,590 S2: of Talbot School of Theology, uh, very famous Bible scholar. 330 00:20:49,710 --> 00:20:54,229 S2: He he said that likely that these were those who 331 00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:58,510 S2: had adopted the Galatian heresy, Gentiles who had been circumcised 332 00:20:58,510 --> 00:21:01,950 S2: or converted to Judaism in order to become believers in Jesus. 333 00:21:01,950 --> 00:21:04,230 S2: And now they were coming to these churches and trying 334 00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:10,030 S2: to get them to adopt the same legalistic heresy. And 335 00:21:10,030 --> 00:21:13,190 S2: why this is significant is they had converted to Judaism 336 00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:19,230 S2: to become alleged Christians, and they, uh, say they are Jews. 337 00:21:19,230 --> 00:21:22,710 S2: Both these texts say, but are not. In other words, 338 00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:25,110 S2: they were pretending to be Jews because of going through 339 00:21:25,109 --> 00:21:28,870 S2: this process, but they were not legitimately descendants of Abraham, 340 00:21:28,869 --> 00:21:31,710 S2: Isaac and Jacob. And so it's not even really talking 341 00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:35,869 S2: about Jewish people. Those passages, I think it's talking about 342 00:21:35,869 --> 00:21:40,150 S2: Gentile converts to Judaism who are trying to spread their 343 00:21:40,150 --> 00:21:42,870 S2: false teaching to other followers of Jesus. 344 00:21:43,390 --> 00:21:45,910 S1: Doctor Michael Redlich is with us today at the radio 345 00:21:45,910 --> 00:21:49,790 S1: backyard fence. How should Christians think about Israel? Is our. 346 00:21:49,790 --> 00:21:51,870 S1: Thank you. This month I wanted to have him on 347 00:21:51,869 --> 00:21:53,629 S1: here and talk more about this and some of the 348 00:21:53,630 --> 00:21:55,869 S1: things that, as you've just heard, are going on in 349 00:21:55,869 --> 00:21:58,750 S1: the news. It is a quick guide to God's covenants, 350 00:21:58,750 --> 00:22:01,710 S1: biblical prophecy and the Jewish people. It's our thank you 351 00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:05,830 S1: at Chris Fabry, support us with a gift of any amount. 352 00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:08,990 S1: We'd love to send it to you. Chris Fabry live. 353 00:22:09,670 --> 00:22:19,990 S1: Or you can call 866958669532279. I had, uh, Vera. Shalom, 354 00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:23,390 S1: doctor Vera, as I recall, on a dear. 355 00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:24,189 S2: Friend of mine. 356 00:22:24,430 --> 00:22:27,350 S1: Yes, the open line program. And one of the things 357 00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:30,510 S1: I think it was a call that we took that night, um, 358 00:22:31,230 --> 00:22:33,430 S1: or it may have just been something that came up 359 00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:37,030 S1: in the conversation, but she said, you have to understand, Chris, 360 00:22:37,470 --> 00:22:41,190 S1: that the that the Jewish people look at Christianity, many 361 00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:45,350 S1: Jewish people who aren't Messianic Jews like you look at 362 00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:50,949 S1: Christianity is this these are the people who started the 363 00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:54,590 S1: concentration camps. These are the people who want us wiped 364 00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:58,550 S1: off the face of the earth. And so it strikes 365 00:22:58,550 --> 00:23:02,390 S1: me that what you're saying about those Christian nationalists or 366 00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:07,510 S1: just people who are saying, yeah, uh, replacement theology, that 367 00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:12,389 S1: that Vera would say, this is coming around again. We're 368 00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:15,709 S1: seeing this foment again. What do you say to that? 369 00:23:16,190 --> 00:23:18,630 S2: Well, I agree. You know, I didn't believe it would 370 00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:21,390 S2: ever happen in my day. I remember when we first 371 00:23:21,390 --> 00:23:23,270 S2: moved to Chicago, there was a survey done in the 372 00:23:23,310 --> 00:23:26,189 S2: in the local Jewish paper, and I don't think it 373 00:23:26,190 --> 00:23:29,430 S2: was a scientific survey, but just a phone survey that 374 00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:34,510 S2: the paper did asking Jewish people, uh, could Nazi Germany, 375 00:23:34,550 --> 00:23:37,629 S2: the events like that that happened there happen in the 376 00:23:37,630 --> 00:23:44,070 S2: United States. And about 77% said, yes, it could. And 377 00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:48,109 S2: I thought even I said yes, but I didn't really, 378 00:23:48,109 --> 00:23:50,470 S2: in my heart of hearts, believe it would happen. In 379 00:23:50,510 --> 00:23:54,429 S2: my time. I thought it was possible, but not so 380 00:23:54,430 --> 00:24:02,510 S2: soon after Hitler's holocaust. Uh, and uh, but people seem 381 00:24:02,510 --> 00:24:05,310 S2: to have forgotten. Although I will say this one person 382 00:24:05,310 --> 00:24:12,030 S2: commented on, uh, a social media post about how Jewish 383 00:24:12,030 --> 00:24:18,070 S2: people are whining about the Holocaust all the time, and, uh, 384 00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:21,110 S2: I responded, I hardly ever respond to any of these, 385 00:24:21,630 --> 00:24:23,869 S2: but I did respond to her. And I said, when 386 00:24:23,869 --> 00:24:27,430 S2: you say that you're talking about the Holocaust, you're talking 387 00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:31,669 S2: about my grandparents on both sides. My aunts and uncles. 388 00:24:32,590 --> 00:24:39,790 S2: Their families, all my cousins. Uh, just about. And, uh, my, uh, 389 00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:44,110 S2: four half brothers and my half sister, uh, who all 390 00:24:44,109 --> 00:24:49,149 S2: perished in, in the camps. And she said, well, that 391 00:24:49,150 --> 00:24:51,350 S2: explains your bias. She responded. 392 00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:51,830 S1: To me. 393 00:24:53,710 --> 00:25:00,270 S2: Uh, as utterly diminishing the horror of this. And so 394 00:25:00,270 --> 00:25:06,070 S2: I feel like there's a a callousness. Uh, it's not ignorance. 395 00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:11,190 S2: It's a uncaring attitude about where hatred of the Jewish 396 00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:13,670 S2: people can lead. And again, I don't think most Christians 397 00:25:13,670 --> 00:25:18,070 S2: are like this, but this very loud, uh, new movement 398 00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:18,950 S2: is like this. 399 00:25:19,670 --> 00:25:23,270 S1: Doctor Michael Rudnick is with us again. How should Christians 400 00:25:23,270 --> 00:25:25,710 S1: think about Israel? I want to get into the modern 401 00:25:25,710 --> 00:25:28,750 S1: state of Israel. Can you have a disagreement with what's 402 00:25:28,750 --> 00:25:31,270 S1: going on with Israel about one thing or another? We'll 403 00:25:31,270 --> 00:25:33,429 S1: talk about that in our next segment. But if you 404 00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:37,670 S1: go to the website, you'll see that book right there. 405 00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:40,310 S1: It's our thank you right now, a quick guide to 406 00:25:40,350 --> 00:25:44,750 S1: God's covenants, biblical prophecy and the Jewish people. If you 407 00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:47,989 S1: go to Chris. Org scroll down. You'll see how you 408 00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:52,830 S1: can give a gift right there. Chris. More coming up 409 00:25:52,830 --> 00:26:06,110 S1: straight ahead on Moody Radio. Thanks for joining us today 410 00:26:06,109 --> 00:26:09,909 S1: on Chris Fabry Live Online. Chris Fabry lives where you 411 00:26:09,910 --> 00:26:13,110 S1: can scroll down and see our featured resource today, which 412 00:26:13,109 --> 00:26:17,270 S1: is our thank you if you support the program right now. 413 00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:21,389 S1: How should Christians think about Israel? Doctor Michael Rudnick don't worry. 414 00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:24,750 S1: Now we're going to be back live with Doctor Van Landingham. 415 00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:27,630 S1: The two Michaels are coming back and we'll do that 416 00:26:27,630 --> 00:26:29,389 S1: a little later in the month. But I wanted to 417 00:26:29,390 --> 00:26:31,310 S1: have Michael on here and talk about some of the 418 00:26:31,310 --> 00:26:34,310 S1: current things that are going on. And I mentioned, uh, 419 00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:38,350 S1: Doctor Shalom a minute ago, I, after I'd had this 420 00:26:38,350 --> 00:26:43,590 S1: conversation with Vera on the program about the Holocaust and 421 00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:46,470 S1: some of the things this was in the 1980s, somewhere 422 00:26:46,510 --> 00:26:47,630 S1: probably late 80s. 423 00:26:47,670 --> 00:26:49,150 S2: She's with the Lord now, you know. 424 00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:52,710 S1: Yes. So, uh, and I got to drive her back to, uh, 425 00:26:52,750 --> 00:26:55,310 S1: where she was staying that night and have more conversation. 426 00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:57,190 S1: That was one of the great things about doing Open 427 00:26:57,190 --> 00:27:00,669 S1: Line is like having all these conversations, driving J.I. Packer 428 00:27:00,670 --> 00:27:05,310 S1: to the airport, you know, afterwards. But, um, there was 429 00:27:05,350 --> 00:27:09,710 S1: a fellow that I knew who's a believer who said 430 00:27:09,710 --> 00:27:12,190 S1: to me, why are you stirring all this up? Why 431 00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:14,669 S1: are you having why are you having these Jewish people 432 00:27:14,670 --> 00:27:17,910 S1: coming on talking about the Holocaust that's in the past, that's, 433 00:27:17,950 --> 00:27:22,550 S1: you know, that's that's old news. And the inference that 434 00:27:22,550 --> 00:27:28,679 S1: I got was, Don't talk about this. It's too, you know, 435 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,720 S1: you could talk too much about it. And like the 436 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,320 S1: woman that you said responded, stop whining, stop whining. Move 437 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,840 S1: on with your life. And I just there's something inside 438 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,760 S1: of me clicked with that. What do you say? 439 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,880 S2: Well, I don't want to whine about anything, and, uh, 440 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,400 S2: I have a mug with the word whining and the 441 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,359 S2: red circle and the line across it. I got it 442 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,639 S2: when I became a professor at Moody, and I've used 443 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,760 S2: it for the last 32 years. Uh, I've got a 444 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,439 S2: sign with the same symbol that I had in my 445 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,840 S2: office for students to see. And I live by that. 446 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,760 S2: I don't I don't whine. Uh, but I do think 447 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:14,399 S2: that we can't forget the history of what happened when 448 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:20,600 S2: hatred of the Jewish people, uh, explodes and and, uh, 449 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,880 S2: it was interesting. I I've been friends with the jobs 450 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,520 S2: for a long time. Mark and t job and they 451 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,240 S2: they I, I was speaking two years ago at the 452 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,320 S2: summit that we had opposing anti-Semitism, and I started by 453 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,400 S2: talking about my family's history with the Holocaust. That was 454 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,360 S2: my introduction to explaining where does hatred of the Jewish 455 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,560 S2: people come from? Uh, and afterwards, this was so interesting. 456 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,800 S2: Mark and D, who are love, beloved friends, you know, 457 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,480 S2: they came up to me. We had no idea. We 458 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,520 S2: had no idea. And so I try, you know, the 459 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,360 S2: last thing I want to do is drop Hitler all 460 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,240 S2: the time, you know, like, oh, and call people Hitler. 461 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,800 S2: And but I do think we have to teach the 462 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,800 S2: history and know the history and be cautious that this 463 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,680 S2: history does not repeat itself. At least here's what's concerning 464 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:26,120 S2: to me. The the church in Germany embraced this German 465 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:32,600 S2: nationalism rather than kingdom righteousness. They they were concerned for 466 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:41,200 S2: being good citizens, not embracing biblical values. And but they 467 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,800 S2: didn't have they they didn't have the lesson of the 468 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:52,040 S2: Holocaust that we do. Nevertheless, the church today seems to be, uh, 469 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,000 S2: there's a segment of it I don't want to say 470 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,040 S2: the whole church, but there's a segment of it that 471 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,360 S2: is going that direction. And they do have the lesson 472 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,000 S2: of the Holocaust and don't care. Uh, that's what's worse. Now, 473 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,560 S2: what I am concerned about, and this is something that 474 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:13,360 S2: that is significant, is that there are many churches who 475 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,960 S2: would never embrace this kind of rhetoric or hatefulness, but 476 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,800 S2: they don't address it either. They don't. They seem somewhat 477 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:28,120 S2: indifferent to it. Uh, it was Ian Kershaw who wrote 478 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,560 S2: the famous biographies of Adolf Hitler. The historian Ian Kershaw 479 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,840 S2: said that the the road to Auschwitz was built by 480 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:44,560 S2: hate but paved with indifference. And I think that we 481 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,000 S2: understand this kind of hate and where it can lead. 482 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,520 S2: But the pavement of indifference, the the attitude of so 483 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,120 S2: many saying, oh, don't, don't talk about it, don't address it, 484 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,680 S2: don't raise this as an issue. I think that kind 485 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,400 S2: of indifference is, is really contrary to the scriptures. Uh, 486 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,080 S2: there's a verse in Proverbs chapter 24. It says, if 487 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,200 S2: you do nothing in a difficult time, your strength is limited. 488 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,040 S2: Rescue those being taken off to death and save those 489 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,800 S2: stumbling towards slaughter. If you say we didn't know about this, 490 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,640 S2: won't he who weighs hearts? Consider it, won't he who 491 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,160 S2: protects your life? No. Won't he repay a person according 492 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,280 S2: to his work? I think we dare not become indifferent 493 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:28,920 S2: to this. 494 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,320 S1: Yeah. And I think that's why you have such an 495 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,520 S1: affinity for people like Doctor Jobe and Michael Van Landingham 496 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,920 S1: and Doctor Don Sweeting out in Colorado. I mean, when 497 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:45,600 S1: you find Gentiles who are not just agree with you, 498 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,960 S1: there's something there's something deeper than just agreeing that that 499 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,640 S1: Jewish people are made in the image of God, whether 500 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,360 S1: they are messianic or not. Um, that you gravitate toward. Right. 501 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,360 S2: Exactly. I mean, what I think is so interesting is 502 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,920 S2: when I told my really good friend, as you know, 503 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,400 S2: Michael Van Landingham, uh, that I was writing this book, 504 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,920 S2: he said, I want to contribute. I said, well, I'm 505 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,720 S2: just writing it myself. He said, I'm going to send 506 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,840 S2: you something. And he wrote me three paragraphs. That's all 507 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,080 S2: about why he believes God has blessed him for his 508 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,240 S2: love for the Jewish people. And it was so good 509 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,120 S2: that that's what I used for the conclusion for the 510 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:34,160 S2: whole book. Wow. Uh, because. And also when, when he, 511 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:40,520 S2: after the Bondi attack and Michael's aware that there are 512 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:48,000 S2: are threats against me for being an outspoken person about this, uh, 513 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,440 S2: he which, you know, I, I don't take them so seriously, 514 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,640 S2: but he said, now, if you need someplace, you and 515 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,640 S2: Eva to be safe, you can come to my house. Uh, 516 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,600 S2: if you want me to teach you how to use 517 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,040 S2: my my weapons, I said, you know, it's not me. Uh, 518 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,760 S2: but I just thought it was so interesting. He's like, 519 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,840 S2: if you need protection, I'm here. And, uh, it's a 520 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,400 S2: it's it's not because we're friends only it's I think 521 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,480 S2: he would say that to any Jewish person. And it's 522 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,920 S2: it's what makes him, I think, unique, uh, among people. 523 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,720 S2: But you're right, Don Sweeting, passionate about this, uh, former 524 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,400 S2: president of Colorado Christian, son of our former president at Moody. 525 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,600 S2: Doctor Sweeting was like this as well. 526 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,800 S1: Yes, yes. 527 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:40,400 S2: Yeah. 528 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,240 S1: So full page ad in the in the Tribune and 529 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:43,880 S1: all of that. 530 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,880 S2: Listen, I spoke with, uh, Mark Jobe recently about doing 531 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:56,040 S2: something about, uh, this kind of renewed anti Jewish hatred and, uh, 532 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,880 S2: he said, uh, well, yeah, that's what we have to do. Uh, 533 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,080 S2: this is something we have to address. So he's not 534 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,480 S2: fearful and he's ready to take a stand, as was 535 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,160 S2: Moody Publishers, uh, to take a stand and and address this. 536 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,200 S1: Well, and that's, the book how should Christians Think about Israel? 537 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,200 S1: You'll see it at the website Chris Fabry live. Org. 538 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:26,400 S1: What do you say to those who theologically say in 1948, 539 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,560 S1: I don't see that in, in Scripture? Uh, I don't, 540 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,680 S1: I don't see the reconstitution of the modern state of 541 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:40,000 S1: Israel as something that is important in the biblical framework. 542 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,919 S1: Can you still have a friendship with them, and how 543 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,400 S1: do you deal with that? 544 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,320 S2: Sure. I have friends who are supersessionist or replacement and 545 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,560 S2: don't see any significance to the rebirth of Israel. Uh, 546 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,000 S2: I think it's funny. I mean, uh, I was once 547 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:04,000 S2: in a forum with, uh, someone who was decidedly opposed 548 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,960 S2: to Israel, but a Christian professor at a at a school. 549 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,280 S2: And we were in a forum. It was like a debate. 550 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,489 S2: And he said, the state of Israel is merely a 551 00:35:14,489 --> 00:35:17,810 S2: quirk of history. And when you think about what the 552 00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:20,210 S2: scriptures have to say, that God's going to regather the 553 00:35:20,210 --> 00:35:23,009 S2: Jewish people back to their land, it even says in 554 00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:27,050 S2: places like Ezekiel 36 that he'd do it before they 555 00:35:27,530 --> 00:35:29,730 S2: give their lives to the Lord, before they come to 556 00:35:29,770 --> 00:35:33,250 S2: know the Lord, that he'll bring them back before and 557 00:35:33,250 --> 00:35:37,009 S2: while they're still in unbelief. Ezekiel 37 and 38 say 558 00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:39,169 S2: the same thing the dry bones message that they're going 559 00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:43,010 S2: to be reconstituted in Israel, and then they're going to 560 00:35:43,170 --> 00:35:49,450 S2: experience regeneration. But to say that after 2000 years without 561 00:35:49,489 --> 00:35:55,210 S2: or more than 2000 years without a state, uh, being 562 00:35:55,210 --> 00:36:00,529 S2: dispersed across the globe and God and then in his providence, 563 00:36:00,530 --> 00:36:03,489 S2: at least, bringing the Jewish people back. This is the 564 00:36:03,489 --> 00:36:09,570 S2: most unlikely story. That could be a mere quirk of history. Uh, 565 00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:13,450 S2: it's linked to Scripture. And and so I would say, 566 00:36:13,489 --> 00:36:15,890 S2: you know, you need to have a better understanding of Scripture. 567 00:36:15,930 --> 00:36:19,090 S2: I think it's interesting that a number of people have 568 00:36:19,210 --> 00:36:23,370 S2: in the past, that's how they changed their view about 569 00:36:23,650 --> 00:36:26,730 S2: Supersessionism was by seeing the rebirth of Israel. 570 00:36:27,330 --> 00:36:30,730 S1: Yes. Doctor Michael is with us. We have one final 571 00:36:30,730 --> 00:36:34,689 S1: segment to go. If you go to the website, scroll down, 572 00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:37,969 S1: you'll see this little book, how should Christians Think about Israel? 573 00:36:38,170 --> 00:36:41,930 S1: A quick guide to God's Covenants, biblical prophecy, and the 574 00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:46,090 S1: Jewish people and what he just talked about there. Those 575 00:36:46,090 --> 00:36:49,690 S1: who disagree with him. This would be if you have 576 00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:53,089 S1: somebody in your family and your church, a neighbor, and 577 00:36:53,090 --> 00:36:55,969 S1: you disagree about this issue, this would be a great 578 00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:59,250 S1: book to hand to them. Uh, just go to Chris 579 00:37:01,010 --> 00:37:02,890 S1: and scroll down. You'll see how you can get a 580 00:37:02,890 --> 00:37:06,009 S1: copy as our thank you this month. Give a gift 581 00:37:06,010 --> 00:37:11,650 S1: of any size. Chris favorite more straight ahead on Moody Radio. 582 00:37:20,170 --> 00:37:22,610 S1: Thanks for joining us today at the Radio Backyard Fence. 583 00:37:22,770 --> 00:37:26,210 S1: This is a recorded broadcast with Doctor Michael Rudnick, and 584 00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:30,410 S1: we're talking about how Christians should think about Israel. That's 585 00:37:30,410 --> 00:37:32,850 S1: the title or close to it, of the little book 586 00:37:32,850 --> 00:37:35,170 S1: that he has written. That is our thank you right now. 587 00:37:35,210 --> 00:37:39,049 S1: 866 95. Fabry give a gift of any size or 588 00:37:39,050 --> 00:37:42,529 S1: go to Chris Fabry live. You'll see. How should Christians 589 00:37:42,530 --> 00:37:47,089 S1: think about Israel? I promoted Michael in that last segment, 590 00:37:47,130 --> 00:37:50,050 S1: the question of okay, what if you disagree with something 591 00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:53,169 S1: that the State of Israel does? How do you deal 592 00:37:53,170 --> 00:37:55,250 S1: with that? So answer that question here. 593 00:37:56,010 --> 00:37:58,530 S2: I don't think there's any question that we can disagree 594 00:37:58,530 --> 00:38:01,569 S2: with the state of Israel. Uh, think about it. How 595 00:38:01,570 --> 00:38:04,290 S2: many protests there are in Israel, how many Israeli citizens 596 00:38:04,290 --> 00:38:06,810 S2: who love their country? They are out there protesting with 597 00:38:06,810 --> 00:38:11,170 S2: their flags and disagreeing with the government. Uh, that that's 598 00:38:11,170 --> 00:38:13,770 S2: a common feature in the land of Israel and the 599 00:38:13,770 --> 00:38:17,810 S2: State of Israel. Uh, I, I've noticed that I love America, 600 00:38:17,810 --> 00:38:21,049 S2: and there are times I've disagreed with the government of America. 601 00:38:21,330 --> 00:38:23,890 S2: So that's not what it's talking about. When it talks 602 00:38:23,890 --> 00:38:28,050 S2: about disagreement, it's it's perfectly legit. But what's not legit 603 00:38:28,050 --> 00:38:33,210 S2: is to delegitimize Israel, to deny Israel's right to exist. 604 00:38:33,650 --> 00:38:37,330 S2: If you disagree with the government, it's not legitimate to 605 00:38:37,370 --> 00:38:40,930 S2: apply double standards to Israel, to make Israel live in 606 00:38:40,930 --> 00:38:44,970 S2: such a way that is different than than any other state. Uh, 607 00:38:44,969 --> 00:38:50,290 S2: it's not, uh, correct to demonize Israel. It's not acceptable 608 00:38:50,290 --> 00:38:54,250 S2: to do that, to make Israel this, uh, wicked nation 609 00:38:54,250 --> 00:38:57,689 S2: that's going to try and conquer the world and all 610 00:38:57,730 --> 00:39:01,770 S2: this stuff that we're hearing, uh, you know, calling Israel 611 00:39:01,770 --> 00:39:07,330 S2: a genocidal apartheid state. That's that that's, uh, demonizing Israel. 612 00:39:07,330 --> 00:39:10,529 S2: That's it's not true, but nevertheless, it's what it is. 613 00:39:10,570 --> 00:39:13,330 S2: And also, I happen to believe a fourth thing is 614 00:39:13,330 --> 00:39:18,850 S2: never to use deceit lies to, uh, to attack Israel. 615 00:39:18,850 --> 00:39:21,250 S2: That's one of the things that one podcaster has done. 616 00:39:21,290 --> 00:39:24,490 S2: He said, oh, Israel wants to kill every Palestinian when 617 00:39:24,489 --> 00:39:28,489 S2: there's nothing further from the truth. Uh, they they've done 618 00:39:28,489 --> 00:39:32,450 S2: their best to get Palestinians in Gaza during that war 619 00:39:32,489 --> 00:39:34,890 S2: out of harm's way. And there are many lies that 620 00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:38,089 S2: are promoted false photography, things like that. We should never 621 00:39:38,090 --> 00:39:42,410 S2: use deceit. So, uh, otherwise disagreement with the government of Israel, 622 00:39:42,410 --> 00:39:45,689 S2: with the state of Israel is, is okay. Uh, but 623 00:39:45,690 --> 00:39:48,049 S2: those four caveats, I would give caveats. 624 00:39:48,770 --> 00:39:52,170 S1: I you sent me a document, and one of the 625 00:39:52,170 --> 00:39:56,450 S1: things in there deals with the phrase Christ is king. 626 00:39:56,850 --> 00:40:01,129 S1: You say a common social media response to Jewish unbelief 627 00:40:01,130 --> 00:40:05,370 S1: is to simply declare Christ is king. What's the problem? 628 00:40:05,610 --> 00:40:08,930 S1: Because I believe Jesus is Lord of Lords, right? 629 00:40:08,969 --> 00:40:12,370 S2: Well, when we started having some conferences about the Jewish 630 00:40:12,370 --> 00:40:14,770 S2: people in the End of Days last November and they 631 00:40:14,770 --> 00:40:17,969 S2: were advertised on social media, this book, there are some 632 00:40:17,969 --> 00:40:20,569 S2: people who just write Christ as King. And I'm thinking, what? 633 00:40:20,610 --> 00:40:22,649 S2: I didn't even know what that was about. So I 634 00:40:22,690 --> 00:40:25,930 S2: began to do some research, and what I found out 635 00:40:25,930 --> 00:40:29,009 S2: was that it began when a podcaster was let go 636 00:40:29,010 --> 00:40:34,009 S2: from her media company because of her anti-Semitism. And her 637 00:40:34,010 --> 00:40:36,770 S2: response as she left was to say, Christ is King. 638 00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:42,930 S2: And after that, uh, many of these, uh, what I 639 00:40:42,930 --> 00:40:47,410 S2: would call Christian nationalists, uh, that are equating faith in 640 00:40:47,410 --> 00:40:52,770 S2: Jesus with being an American. Uh, they began to chant 641 00:40:52,770 --> 00:40:57,450 S2: Christ as King. Even Nick Fuentes, the notorious white supremacist, 642 00:40:57,489 --> 00:41:01,210 S2: gave a rally where he called for holy war against 643 00:41:01,210 --> 00:41:04,450 S2: the Jewish people because Christ is on their side, is 644 00:41:04,450 --> 00:41:07,250 S2: on the side of Christians, uh, said that they'll kill 645 00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:11,090 S2: them all. Basically, that was his message. And the crowd 646 00:41:11,090 --> 00:41:15,090 S2: responded at his rally. Christ is king. Christ is king. 647 00:41:15,450 --> 00:41:20,210 S2: And and so here's the problem. By taking that very 648 00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:26,330 S2: true statement and turning it into a taunt against Jewish people, 649 00:41:26,330 --> 00:41:29,049 S2: it's turning it into something that it ought not to be. 650 00:41:29,090 --> 00:41:31,290 S2: It's sort of like what the Crusaders did. They took 651 00:41:31,290 --> 00:41:34,009 S2: the cross. They were cross bearers, and they used it 652 00:41:34,010 --> 00:41:38,570 S2: to murder people. Uh, that symbol, they they murdered under 653 00:41:38,570 --> 00:41:41,089 S2: the sign of the cross. It made the sign of 654 00:41:41,090 --> 00:41:44,410 S2: the cross odious to many people who are not followers 655 00:41:44,410 --> 00:41:48,770 S2: of Jesus. And the same the same principle holds true 656 00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:53,170 S2: by saying Christ is king. Uh, it's causing a defamation 657 00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:58,049 S2: of the Lord Jesus. Uh, among Jewish people. It's become 658 00:41:58,090 --> 00:42:04,569 S2: an anti-Semitic taunt. Uh, and, uh, one, uh, media expert said. 659 00:42:04,570 --> 00:42:09,970 S2: When does this phrase become anti-Semitic? When it's used for anti-Semitism? 660 00:42:09,969 --> 00:42:12,890 S2: When it's used for Jew hatred. He says a shovel 661 00:42:12,890 --> 00:42:14,650 S2: is not a murder weapon unless you use it to 662 00:42:14,690 --> 00:42:19,730 S2: kill someone. And, uh, that's the same idea with this phrase. Uh, 663 00:42:19,930 --> 00:42:23,490 S2: Christ is king. Now, listen, I signed my letters all 664 00:42:23,489 --> 00:42:27,450 S2: for the king. I've done that for almost 20 years. I've, uh. 665 00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:30,290 S2: I believe with all my heart in King Jesus. And 666 00:42:30,290 --> 00:42:32,810 S2: I want to glorify him. And I do want to 667 00:42:32,810 --> 00:42:35,009 S2: do all for the King. But I do see what 668 00:42:35,010 --> 00:42:39,570 S2: has happened with this phrase, how it's become something really 669 00:42:39,570 --> 00:42:42,290 S2: quite ugly. It's it's an attempt of domination instead of 670 00:42:42,290 --> 00:42:45,890 S2: what the gospel is, which is to penetrate society with 671 00:42:45,890 --> 00:42:48,650 S2: the message instead of to dominate others by it. 672 00:42:48,650 --> 00:42:53,129 S1: Yes. Okay. Talk to a Jewish person who doesn't agree 673 00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:57,290 S1: with you about Jesus. Uh, who is listening or or 674 00:42:57,450 --> 00:43:01,290 S1: not listening today to this program, to this conversation. What 675 00:43:01,290 --> 00:43:06,130 S1: would you say to them about the church and what 676 00:43:06,130 --> 00:43:08,969 S1: you're seeing, at least a segment of the church. What 677 00:43:08,969 --> 00:43:10,810 S1: would you say to that Jewish friend? 678 00:43:11,410 --> 00:43:13,569 S2: I would say the same thing I have always said 679 00:43:13,570 --> 00:43:15,969 S2: when we think about the Crusades and the murder of 680 00:43:15,969 --> 00:43:20,530 S2: Jewish people by the Crusaders and the pogroms of Eastern Europe, 681 00:43:20,530 --> 00:43:23,410 S2: where the priests would give their blessing to the murderers 682 00:43:23,410 --> 00:43:29,730 S2: of Jews, that this is a terrible thing, and it's 683 00:43:29,730 --> 00:43:33,729 S2: contrary to God's will. It's not, uh, what the Lord 684 00:43:33,730 --> 00:43:37,450 S2: Jesus believes about his people. And what we need to 685 00:43:37,450 --> 00:43:44,610 S2: do is look at who is Jesus. And, uh, did 686 00:43:44,610 --> 00:43:48,049 S2: he really fulfill the predictions of the Messiah and the 687 00:43:48,090 --> 00:43:51,570 S2: Hebrew Bible? And if he did that, even if people 688 00:43:51,570 --> 00:43:55,450 S2: misuse his name, uh, we have to know who he 689 00:43:55,450 --> 00:43:58,250 S2: is and how he longed for us to be gathered 690 00:43:58,250 --> 00:44:01,330 S2: to him as a mother hen gathers his sheep, and 691 00:44:01,420 --> 00:44:05,540 S2: therefore we need to put our trust in him regardless 692 00:44:05,540 --> 00:44:08,980 S2: of what foolish people do in his name. 693 00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:14,020 S1: Which goes back to the covenant that God made with Abraham, 694 00:44:14,020 --> 00:44:18,020 S1: and then David and his line all the way down 695 00:44:18,020 --> 00:44:24,500 S1: through the centuries to who Jesus was born in Bethlehem, 696 00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:26,580 S1: and all of those. And you go through that in 697 00:44:26,620 --> 00:44:28,419 S1: even though it's a little book, you go through all 698 00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:29,420 S1: of that. Right? 699 00:44:29,540 --> 00:44:33,140 S2: Mhm I do. It's kind of interesting to me. I 700 00:44:33,140 --> 00:44:35,700 S2: feel that the book is pretty dense, even though it's readable. 701 00:44:36,060 --> 00:44:39,100 S2: It's got a lot of content. So, uh, a friend 702 00:44:39,100 --> 00:44:42,379 S2: of mine at my congregation said to me I had 703 00:44:42,380 --> 00:44:44,660 S2: to sit down and read slow, not because it was 704 00:44:44,660 --> 00:44:46,219 S2: hard to read, but I had to look up all 705 00:44:46,219 --> 00:44:50,180 S2: these verses. And so, so I do hope that's there. But, 706 00:44:50,219 --> 00:44:53,460 S2: you know, the, the, the last thing I would say 707 00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:57,060 S2: to these people who are embracing Jew hatred as part 708 00:44:57,060 --> 00:45:00,460 S2: of their faith, which is heartbreaking. There's something that Paul 709 00:45:00,460 --> 00:45:05,460 S2: wrote in Romans chapter two. And and this is, you know, 710 00:45:05,460 --> 00:45:08,339 S2: Paul's attitude to Jewish people was, I wish I could 711 00:45:08,340 --> 00:45:11,140 S2: wish myself accursed if it only meant that my people 712 00:45:11,140 --> 00:45:13,340 S2: could go to heaven. That's Romans nine one through three, 713 00:45:13,380 --> 00:45:15,540 S2: one through three. He says in Romans ten one, my 714 00:45:15,540 --> 00:45:18,020 S2: heart's desire and prayer to God for my people is 715 00:45:18,060 --> 00:45:20,779 S2: that they might be saved. He loved his people. But 716 00:45:20,780 --> 00:45:23,860 S2: one of the things he said in criticizing Jewish people 717 00:45:24,260 --> 00:45:27,380 S2: is in Romans 224 he says, the name of God 718 00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:30,700 S2: is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you. 719 00:45:31,020 --> 00:45:31,420 S1: Mm. 720 00:45:31,700 --> 00:45:37,219 S2: Now, what I would say today that's no longer true, uh, really, 721 00:45:38,380 --> 00:45:43,819 S2: of Jewish people. But today the name of Jesus is 722 00:45:43,820 --> 00:45:47,500 S2: being blasphemed among the Jews. We dare not do that. 723 00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:50,620 S2: We have to reflect what the Lord Jesus felt for 724 00:45:50,620 --> 00:45:54,339 S2: his people, his love for them, and his promise to return. Uh, 725 00:45:54,340 --> 00:45:55,700 S2: when they trusted in him. 726 00:45:58,060 --> 00:46:00,900 S1: We've prayed to live in interesting times than we do 727 00:46:00,940 --> 00:46:03,979 S1: dangerous times, because a lot of what we've talked about 728 00:46:03,980 --> 00:46:06,540 S1: is ominous. But at the same time, there's a lot 729 00:46:06,540 --> 00:46:09,660 S1: of hope here because of who is on the throne, 730 00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:13,299 S1: who really is king. Thanks a lot. Exactly. Bing! Bingo. 731 00:46:13,540 --> 00:46:16,060 S1: Thank you for spending this time with us today at 732 00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:18,899 S1: the back fence. Come back with the other Michael and 733 00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:21,140 S1: we'll do a Bible question and answer, okay. 734 00:46:21,860 --> 00:46:23,660 S2: Next time. Looking forward to it. 735 00:46:24,300 --> 00:46:27,780 S1: How should Christians think about Israel? Is there a thank you? 736 00:46:27,780 --> 00:46:31,380 S1: If you go to Chris? Scroll down. You'll see how 737 00:46:31,380 --> 00:46:33,420 S1: you can get a copy. Just give a gift of 738 00:46:33,420 --> 00:46:35,820 S1: any size to the program. And even if you can't 739 00:46:35,820 --> 00:46:38,940 S1: give a gift and you want this, respond today. Go 740 00:46:38,940 --> 00:46:45,660 S1: to Chris dot or 86695. Our program is a production 741 00:46:45,660 --> 00:46:49,500 S1: of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks 742 00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:50,180 S1: for listening.