S1: The struggles and triumphs of military marriages today. On building
S1: relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S2: You do have to take a back seat. A lot
S2: of times as a military spouse, you're told where to
S2: go and when to go, and your heart has to
S2: be primed to follow, hopefully with loving service.
S3: That calling is a spouse. You're entering a mission field
S3: and as a service member, and I think that's an
S3: area that is ripe for believers and just a calling
S3: out of what that could bring to marriages. Certainly in
S3: the military and many marriages that are second or third
S3: marriages as well.
S1: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S1: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today,
S1: through multiple combat deployments, frequent sole parenting, post-traumatic stress, and
S1: 12 moves, Ashley realized she needed a plan to survive
S1: her military marriage to her husband, Tim.
S4: And that plan is our featured resource today at Building Relationships.
S4: It's titled Mission Ready Marriage A Christian Guide to Discovering
S4: Hope and purpose as a military wife. Again, go to
S4: building relationships. And with Memorial Day coming up this Monday,
S4: I think this is the perfect time to talk about
S4: military marriages and some of the struggles they face. Gary,
S4: through the years, you've spoken into the lives of those
S4: who serve our country, and it's not just the person
S4: in uniform that serves. It's really the whole family, isn't it?
S5: Well, it is, Chris, no question about it, because every
S5: family member is impacted by military lifestyle, which is very
S5: different from the lifestyle that non-military people live. So. And
S5: as you know, I've been very, very interested and concerned
S5: with military couples. Wrote a special edition you remember of
S5: the five love languages for military couples trying to face
S5: some of those things. So I am really excited about
S5: our conversation today and excited about this book. I think
S5: it's going to be very helpful to our listeners.
S4: I do too. Let's meet our guests first. Ashley Ashcraft
S4: is a nationally recognized educator, military wife, down syndrome advocate,
S4: and homeschool mom. She's also a contributing writer for Military
S4: Spouse magazine. Her husband, Tim Ashcraft, is a career Army
S4: aviation officer and recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross for
S4: his actions in Afghanistan as an ah 64 Apache helicopter pilot.
S4: He holds two masters, one in aerospace engineering, one in
S4: military studies, served as an assistant professor in the Civil
S4: and Mechanical Engineering department at West Point. Tim and Ashley
S4: have been married for more than 15 years. They have
S4: four children and are featured. Resource is the book Mission
S4: Ready Marriage. You'll find out more at Building Relationships.
S5: Well, Ashley and Tim, Welcome to Building Relationships.
S2: Thank you, Doctor Chapman. It is a huge honor and
S2: blessing to be with you today. You have been a
S2: pivotal part of our marriage, because the five love languages
S2: is something that we hold very dear to our marriage
S2: and constantly remind ourselves of how to love the other.
S2: So thank you for your work and as you mentioned,
S2: your specific book for those who are married in the military.
S5: Well, I'm excited about your book that you're having you
S5: and Tim on the program today. You know, we like
S5: to hear love stories on this program. So, Ashley, start
S5: us off. How did you meet Tim and how did
S5: you know that he was the one for you?
S2: We met in our freshman English class in high school,
S2: and we became dear friends, and we tried to date
S2: a few times, but more than that, we were friends
S2: for about eight years and this was before the time
S2: of text messaging, so we constantly pass each other notes
S2: in between classes and we would always address them from
S2: famous characters. So two Prince Charming from Cinderella. And that's
S2: how our love story started out. And then it was
S2: our senior year in college, when I visited him up
S2: at West Point on a trip over Easter where I
S2: truly felt like I wanted to, that I knew I
S2: wanted to dedicate the rest of my life to loving
S2: this man and calling him my husband.
S5: Okay, Taylor, it's your turn. What was it like for you?
S3: I'll never forget when Ashley walked into Mrs. Hughes freshman
S3: English class. And I was assuming we were dating all
S3: those eight years, but. No, but we became very good friends.
S3: And even through long distance. Um, and that's what really
S3: cemented it. Of course, I fell more and more in
S3: love with her through the years. But what what was
S3: incredible to me was when she decided to move to
S3: a small town in Alabama while I was finishing up
S3: flight school, get a place of her own. And I
S3: hadn't even proposed yet. And I thought, wow, I better
S3: get serious because she's she's all in and I will
S3: never forget that commitment early on.
S5: All right. Well, you know, all of us have a
S5: story and it's amazing how God leads us together. Some
S5: early in life, as with the two of you. Well, actually,
S5: did you know what you were signing up for when
S5: you married a military man?
S2: I had absolutely no clue. Which seems to be the
S2: consensus in our community. I had two family members who
S2: had served in the military before I was born, but
S2: it wasn't something that was discussed or talked about as
S2: I grew up. So other than knowing we would move
S2: frequently and there would be deployments, I had no understanding
S2: of what this life would actually entail as a military spouse?
S5: Yeah, most of us have no idea our little idea
S5: of what marriage is going to be like, even if
S5: we're not in the military.
S2: Amen.
S5: Well, Tim, uh, did you have any idea of the
S5: adjustments in all that Ashley and later your family would
S5: have to make?
S3: No idea. I really think there's a beautiful illustration in
S3: Ashley's book about a spouse's oath of office. You know,
S3: in the military, you take an oath of office and
S3: any public service. And she has this beautiful illustration of
S3: how there should be almost at the altar or when
S3: you join up a spouse's oath of office, because they
S3: really take on not just your oath, but the whole
S3: family and providing for the family. So I, I had
S3: no idea hardly what I was getting into and let
S3: alone Ashley.
S5: Yeah. Ashley. What are some of the challenges, just in
S5: a general sense, that military families face, that the general
S5: public doesn't understand?
S2: I think one of the most important things for the
S2: community to understand is that the military has the highest
S2: divorce rate of any profession on the planet, so we
S2: are in desperate need of support in our marriages. Also, 25%
S2: of military families struggle with food insecurity, and this is
S2: because of the low wages that they earn early on,
S2: but also because of financial guidance that is really lacking
S2: in the military community. And lastly, the military spouse unemployment
S2: rate is five times the national average. So because we
S2: move so frequently, it's challenging to transfer our licenses and
S2: repeat tests and find jobs that fit our niche everywhere
S2: that we go. So if there's not an unemployment rate,
S2: then oftentimes we are underemployed as well.
S5: I think you're right on those things, and I think
S5: very few civilians understand some of those things and perhaps
S5: would not even have thought about those things.
S4: Tim, as as a person in the military, it must
S4: break your heart to see marriages around you doing what
S4: they're doing and those who are in the service.
S3: It really does. And it is a mission field for believers.
S3: You cry out for those that are believers and struggling,
S3: but those that don't even have a faith. I so
S3: admire the the Chaplain Corps and the work they do,
S3: but not just their work as a mission field. Ashley
S3: talks in her book how that calling is a spouse.
S3: You're entering a mission field and as a service member. Um,
S3: and I think that's an area that is ripe for
S3: believers and for just a calling out of what that
S3: could bring to marriages, certainly in the military and many
S3: marriages that are second or third marriages as well.
S5: Well, Tim, if you were talking to a young man
S5: or a group of young men or women for that matter,
S5: about joining the military, what would you say to them
S5: in their consideration of the process of going into the military?
S3: I would say that there is a jersey for you,
S3: and I'm I'm stealing that from my boss, who gave
S3: a beautiful speech on if you want to be a veterinarian,
S3: an artist, an astronaut, a pilot, a tanker, there is
S3: a jersey for you. And a lot of people just
S3: don't know the careers that they can take on. There's
S3: incredible stories of people who have enlisted, who come from
S3: the most humble beginnings, and go on to be general
S3: officers or to serve distinguished careers twice over in the military,
S3: and I would encourage them to really look into what
S3: they want to be as a as a professional, as
S3: a person, and how the military can complement that. And
S3: when you couple those together, you have some of the
S3: most incredible experiences you couldn't even ever imagine, while also
S3: having a sense of service and and a calling to
S3: something beyond yourself.
S5: Yeah, I think the plus side of military life is
S5: often not emphasized among civilians, but there are a lot
S5: of positive things there. I'm just thinking about children, for example,
S5: and what exposure they have to various places, living various
S5: places and all of that sort of thing. Yeah, so
S5: I would certainly encourage young, young men who have any
S5: interest at all, or young women for that matter, if
S5: that's their interest to seriously consider military service. So actually, Ashley,
S5: you mentioned some of the difficulties military families go through.
S5: What was the most difficult for you and how did
S5: you cope with it?
S2: By far the most difficult thing that we've been through
S2: was Tim's first deployment. And true to military life, we
S2: missed our first wedding anniversary together. He deployed the month
S2: prior and two months into his deployment. I got a
S2: phone call from him. And I knew something was wrong
S2: right away and learned that earlier that morning he had
S2: been shot down. And it was the night of power.
S2: And extremists believed that on the night of power, if
S2: they kill the enemy, then they will be rewarded by
S2: Allah a thousand fold. And so, just as him and
S2: his co-pilot were landing, they noticed that there were about
S2: 50 insurgents dressed in stolen US military uniforms breaching the wire.
S2: And so they lifted back up but weren't able to
S2: get to a high enough level for safety. And their
S2: helicopter took 15 rounds. And by the grace of God,
S2: they survived. But you don't come home from a deployment
S2: like that without trauma. Well, trauma changes the brain, and
S2: neither of us were equipped for what reintegration would look
S2: like after he came home from that deployment. I think
S2: there is a romanticized idea of what that's going to
S2: look like. But he lost close friends over there and
S2: he experienced traumatic events. And shortly after he returned home,
S2: within just weeks, we moved to a new town. That
S2: was a huge challenge in our marriage, figuring out how
S2: to love and serve each other well in the midst
S2: of trying to process everything that had just happened in
S2: the last year and being ill equipped to do so.
S5: Yeah. Tim. Tim. What was that like for you? Just
S5: just a few words from when you went through that
S5: traumatic experience.
S3: The scenario that Ashley described, it was one an incredible
S3: affirmation of my faith. I had never felt that peace
S3: that surpasses all understanding more than I did in that
S3: moment when we were fairly convinced that was it would
S3: be going down in hostile territory. And I just felt
S3: God's presence and by his grace. And but coming home,
S3: despite the reintegration training that is given for the service
S3: member and the spouse and the family, there was an
S3: aspect of pride for me, and maybe arrogance too, of
S3: oh no, I could go through that and I wouldn't
S3: bring any of that home. But it really took Ashley
S3: sitting me down and saying, no, you. You're different and
S3: I love you and I just need you to acknowledge that.
S3: So it was almost the that denial initially that had
S3: to be gracefully presented by my, my wife, um, to
S3: overcome that pride and start working through it.
S5: I don't think those of us who have never been
S5: through that type of experience can imagine that. But the
S5: positive thing for Christians, which you've shared, is the presence
S5: of God in the midst of that of that trauma. Wow. Well, Tim,
S5: it must have also been difficult for you to have
S5: to deploy again and again and leave your family, or
S5: be the reason why they had to move again. Uh,
S5: what was that like for you?
S3: You know, I think it was a challenge I didn't
S3: think about when signing up for the military. And I
S3: don't know that at 17 years old, I had the
S3: capacity to comprehend One. Starting a family in the military,
S3: two having my wife move while deployed, and three raising
S3: kids in that environment as well. So I not necessarily
S3: expect a young teenager to think through that, but I
S3: would encourage anyone at any stage to get involved in
S3: their church, to get involved in a in a small group,
S3: in their community, because we lean so heavily on those
S3: around us and really lifted us up. And despite Ashley's strength,
S3: really held up our our marriage and figurative and literal
S3: way as well.
S5: You know, I remember once being at Fort Bragg, uh,
S5: and I was speaking to the spouses and in Afghanistan,
S5: they had a hookup where the spouses could actually hear
S5: me at the same time. And then afterwards, later, another
S5: time I was there. Carolyn and I were there when
S5: the the troops were coming back and we watched, you know,
S5: these spouses greeting them for the first time after they
S5: came back and all and and it brought tears to
S5: our eyes just just realizing, you know, what? What they
S5: had gone through. Actually talk to young women who are
S5: in love and they think things will work out fine,
S5: and they're going to marry a military spouse, and they
S5: don't see that as a big deal. What would you
S5: say to them to perhaps help them prepare for this?
S2: I would say first that I understand you're so in love,
S2: and it's hard to see beyond that. But I think
S2: it's essential to prepare your heart for the mission work
S2: that you're about to do. So the Lord determines our boundaries.
S2: It says in acts 1726. And another one of the
S2: positives about the military is that you get to travel
S2: all around the country or the world, and God is
S2: sending you out to do this mission work. But we
S2: can't take that lightly, and we really have to prepare
S2: our hearts in prayer to not fall into a trap
S2: of bitterness and resentment, but to see this as the
S2: Lord's work and to ask for his guidance. And I
S2: think it would be imperative for a young woman to
S2: ask for a mentor. Maybe that's somebody in her church
S2: or at her fiance's local installation, but find someone who
S2: has walked this path before you and that loves Jesus
S2: more than anything, and have her hold your hand through
S2: this and help prepare you. Because I think, as Tim
S2: has alluded to, community has been essential for us, and
S2: having those other Christ like brothers and sisters come alongside
S2: us is really important to this process.
S5: Yeah, I really like the emphasis you have in the
S5: book of this being a mission. You know, as Christians,
S5: we're on mission. And I'm thinking in terms of missionaries
S5: that we send out to other countries and churches, you know,
S5: will adopt missionaries. They will have people praying for them
S5: all the time. And really, it would be great if
S5: we could have that kind of program for any military
S5: couple that's in a Christian church, that they would have
S5: couples at home praying for them. You know, like we
S5: pray for our missionaries. So I really I really like
S5: that emphasis. And but of course, you're emphasizing also not
S5: only people at home praying for you, but also involve
S5: yourself in chapels and churches wherever you go so that
S5: you're you're walking this journey with other individuals.
S2: Absolutely. And I, I appreciate you mentioning that. And I
S2: think if there are any church leaders that are listening
S2: to this, that I would highly encourage them to pray
S2: about seeing their those in their congregation that are in
S2: the military as their missionaries and looking at how they
S2: could support them through prayer or even financially as as
S2: you mentioned.
S5: Yeah. Tim, would it be fair to say you felt
S5: called to the military? Now, you went in very young,
S5: but did you have a sense that God was calling
S5: you into the military?
S3: So I had a romantic idea about the military. My
S3: my grandfather was in World War two and commissioned into
S3: the horse cavalry of all things. And then they mechanized
S3: things and served in the war and came back. And
S3: it was a great example to me, but I hadn't
S3: really seriously considered it until I was looking at where
S3: to go to school. So West Point to me, after
S3: looking at all the academies, you get an Ivy League education.
S3: You you can play army, you can go into the
S3: you commission into the army. After that had first engineering
S3: school in America. It was just all of the things
S3: that that I was attracted to, but I didn't understand
S3: the long, longer term commitment beyond your initial obligation. And
S3: we were juniors in high school when nine over 11 happened.
S3: So there was very much a sense of wanting to
S3: serve and re-energizing the entire base in America of patriotism
S3: and and really felt called to that. But even while
S3: I was in school there, we thought the war would
S3: be quickly over, much like the first Gulf War. So
S3: I think it was a little bit of both. I
S3: think that while I was in school, I really was.
S3: It affirmed my reason for going and wanting to go
S3: into the Army and out of the gate. I think
S3: I was just a little too young to to understand
S3: the long term commitment.
S5: Yeah. Ashley, you think it's important that wives of military
S5: I'm talking about Christians now, uh, have that same sense of,
S5: you know, being called with with that military person to
S5: this particular mission.
S2: I think definitely taking this commitment to God and asking
S2: him to prepare their hearts and to lead them and
S2: to guide them. You know, I don't think it's an
S2: accident when a military, when a woman falls in love
S2: with a military man and that as you're speaking specifically
S2: to Christians, I would just ask that or suggest that
S2: she really pray about this and and search the scriptures
S2: and see if she feels like she can support her
S2: husband's service, because you do have to take a back seat.
S2: A lot of times as a military spouse and you
S2: don't often get a lot of choice, you're told where
S2: to go and when to go, and your heart has
S2: to be primed to to follow. Um, hopefully with loving service.
S5: Now, we hear a lot today, not only in the military,
S5: even outside the military of loneliness. But I think being
S5: in the military and for a spouse and often when
S5: the when the husband or the other wife, only either
S5: one is deployed and the other is left at home,
S5: there has to be a sense of loneliness associated with
S5: all of this. Speak to that in terms of your
S5: own experience.
S2: I think that's one of the biggest hindrances that our
S2: military spouse community faces is loneliness. And coupled with that
S2: anxiety and depression and we're we move so often and
S2: depending on your personality style, it can be really hard
S2: to get out there and meet new people. It's not
S2: likely that people are just going to show up at
S2: your door and invite them into our lives, but that's
S2: one thing that I have learned is to be that person.
S2: Even when we've moved after 12 times, it gets a
S2: little bit exhausting to start relationships again, but you never
S2: know how long you're going to be there and the
S2: friends and neighbors around you essentially need to become your
S2: community for you to thrive. And so we've really learned
S2: to just show up at all the doors around us
S2: and jump into the churches and jump into serving and
S2: find out ways that we can connect on our installations
S2: has really been an imperative process. And the one thing
S2: where I believe that God can use loneliness that we
S2: experience happened for us. An example, when we were at
S2: Fort Rucker, Alabama, and we went for a short course
S2: so we weren't there long enough for me to teach,
S2: which was my profession at the time. And so I
S2: had to stay home and just felt very lonely. Not
S2: having friends, not having community, not having family. Our church
S2: at that time had challenged us to read the Bible
S2: in 90 days, and without my having any work, I
S2: was able to accept that challenge. And so I spent
S2: those 90 days for the first time reading through the
S2: entire Bible. I didn't always understand what I was reading,
S2: but with the Holy Spirit's guidance, I was able to
S2: get through that. And I think God really used that
S2: time to draw me intimately close to him. And that's
S2: really where my relationship with him caught fire. And so
S2: I think there is a benefit to the quiet spaces
S2: that are sometimes created for us as we move. But
S2: along with that, I was also involved with our church,
S2: so it's important to have that community as well.
S5: Yeah, I think utilizing that time when you are alone
S5: more than at other times can be very, very profitable.
S1: This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
S1: For more simple ways to strengthen your relationships, go to
S1: five Love Languages. Com our featured resource today is the
S1: book by Ashley Ashcraft titled Mission Ready Marriage A Christian
S1: Guide to Discovering Hope and purpose as a military wife.
S1: Find out more at Five Love languages.com.
S4: I just want to say a word about Lieutenant Colonel
S4: Ashcraft because I. I texted my brother, who is a
S4: West Point grad, and said, hey, I got another West
S4: Point grad coming on, and he sent me. You guys
S4: at West Point know each other everything. He knows your
S4: shoe size. He knows everything that you've done. And also,
S4: I was interested when you were when you graduated high
S4: school in Arizona, you were had honors, southern Arizona honors.
S4: In football, you were a recipient of several awards. You
S4: excelled in fine arts. So not only can you get
S4: in a helicopter and go fly it over there, you
S4: can sing a song and dance across the stage. And
S4: now I understand why I actually was drawn to you, Tim.
S6: He was definitely the All-American.
S3: I'm sure my unit will have fun with that, sir, But.
S6: I.
S3: Will say there, there is. I'm so grateful for the
S3: upbringing that I had. And serving on a worship arts
S3: team in a chapel in Afghanistan was one of the
S3: most special experiences I'll have. And doing an Easter sunrise
S3: service in a in a country that is so beautiful,
S3: yet has been war torn for so many years. It
S3: was something else. And the bond that we have with those,
S3: those folks will never be broken.
S4: Yeah. Keyboard and drums. Gary. So we can ask Tim
S4: to do just about anything. But you know what he is?
S4: He is a cheerleader for Ashley's book because he really
S4: believes in this. And, uh, one other question, and then
S4: I'll get it back. Give it back to you, Gary.
S4: And that is the Distinguished Flying Cross. Not everybody gets that,
S4: nor the Bronze Star. So when I see this picture
S4: of you with all of these medals there, what goes
S4: through your mind, Tim? When when you get to where
S4: these things that have been given to you.
S3: Well thank you. It's very humbling. It is humbling to
S3: think about those who served before and will continue to.
S3: And I will say there's an immense sense of pride
S3: in each of those awards and ribbons. Every, every one
S3: of them has a story, but something that in the
S3: military edition that Doctor Chapman talks about, there's an illustration
S3: of a couple where the husband says, I would give
S3: it all away because his marriage was falling apart. And
S3: I would say that none of that would ever have
S3: been possible without Ashley's support. And in that scenario that
S3: that earned us the crew, the Distinguished Flying Cross. Ashley
S3: wanted to know every detail and wanted to support me through,
S3: you know, healing process and and everything else experienced through deployment. Redeployment.
S3: And I would say I would. I would give it
S3: all away if I had to. Thankfully, as as Doctor
S3: Chapman alludes to in his book, you can have a
S3: successful marriage and career as well, and through faith, I
S3: believe is key. As an illustration, those metals are held
S3: on in the back by a little pin. You know,
S3: if there's anything that's held me through a military career,
S3: it's it's Ashley. Um, and her, her rock solid faith
S3: and foundation for our family. And, um, so that's a,
S3: I guess, a bit of a metaphor, but that's what
S3: I think of.
S5: I think we ought to have a little song and
S5: celebration for you, Ashley. Right now. Okay.
S6: Hit it. Tim. One.
S3: Two. Three.
S5: All right, well, let's change the subject a bit here. Ashley. Uh,
S5: you polled a lot of military wives, and you saw
S5: a need in an area that you really hadn't planned
S5: to address in this book. Talk about that.
S2: Yes, I was very surprised. I had outlined all the
S2: chapters in my book and thought I had every subject
S2: in there that needed to be addressed. But over and over,
S2: as I talked to military spouses, one of the primary
S2: concerns was their family of origin and their extended families
S2: not understanding the depths of the sacrifice and really placing
S2: a lot of blame and shame on our families. For example,
S2: it's not easy for us to travel home for Christmas.
S2: One of the reasons, of course, is financial. You know,
S2: for my family to get across the country for Christmas
S2: last year, if we would have gone, it would have
S2: cost us $5,000. And that's very challenging. And but they
S2: also don't understand often that some of our husbands are
S2: on a deployment call where they have to be ready
S2: to go in two hours, and so we can't plan
S2: trips to go home. Often when our husbands are unable
S2: to travel. Just understanding too that sometimes, most of the
S2: time our vacations are home to our family of origin
S2: and our extended families. But sometimes we need that time
S2: to our immediate family ourselves, to create new memories and
S2: to recoup. Because even if our spouse isn't deployed or
S2: out training in the field, which feels like most of
S2: the time their hours are really insane. And so we
S2: hardly have any time together as a family. And so
S2: it's also important for us to just have that time
S2: with our immediate family and for our extended families to
S2: understand that that's not anything against them. We just need
S2: to cultivate our family bond as well. And so there's
S2: a whole list of ways that we can help communicate
S2: with our families back home, to help them understand ways
S2: that they can support us. And as Tim has mentioned,
S2: our families have. We've been very blessed to our families
S2: have showed up every time that we have moved. They
S2: have helped watch our kids, helped load the truck, have
S2: helped pack the dishes. They welcome us home and create
S2: beautiful environments for us to be home and create fun memories.
S2: And and they really do understand that when we can't
S2: come home, it's not personal.
S5: Yeah. Yeah. You're alluded to this, but talk about the
S5: financial struggles of military couples. Why do so many have
S5: difficulty in this area and what can be done to help?
S6: I think we could say.
S2: That generally across the board, people are struggling, not in education.
S2: That unfortunately is being passed down in families or in school.
S2: And but in the military specifically, it's a huge challenge.
S2: And if you look at the statistics, it's near 8,090%
S2: of us are in debt and at a very high number.
S2: And so thankfully, one of the things that our family
S2: has been blessed by is Financial Peace University by Dave Ramsey.
S2: And they actually offer their Financial Peace University course for
S2: free for active duty members. And so that's Tim and
S2: I did that when we were engaged, and we followed
S2: their program our entire marriage. And it has been a
S2: huge blessing to our family.
S5: Yeah. Yeah. I hope that many military couples who don't
S5: know about that will search that out, because that's certainly
S5: good training. Well, let's talk about military kids. What have
S5: you learned about helping kids? Going through a lot of
S5: transitions in life?
S2: Our kids, when we moved to this house, had lived
S2: in as many houses as they were old. So our
S2: eight year old had just moved into her eighth house.
S2: Our six year old moved into his sixth house, and
S2: our four year old at that time had moved into
S2: her fourth house. And so transition is all they know.
S2: Saying goodbye to their friends, meeting new friends, leaving their homes,
S2: finding new homes. And it's just been a challenge. So
S2: one of our kids I talk about in the book
S2: has been diagnosed with a transition disorder, and that is
S2: common in our community. Um, a lot of it comes
S2: with anxiety and depression, but we also try and create
S2: a lot of fun with it too. When we move,
S2: we try and find fun places along the route. When
S2: dad is deployed or in training, the little ones that
S2: still think it's fun to sleep in bed with mom.
S2: They can hop in bed and sleep with me, or
S2: we make silly dinners like waffles and pancakes that I
S2: wouldn't make for dinner when Tim is home. And so
S2: we've tried to create fun experiences amidst the challenges. But also,
S2: I think the most imperative part for our military kids
S2: is to know that they too, are on mission, that
S2: they are never too young to love others, to serve others,
S2: to share the gospel message. And that can be very
S2: practical things we try and get our kids involved in.
S2: For example, if we have a neighbour who is deployed,
S2: then our kids can help bring the trash up, or
S2: they can help us babysit their kids so that the
S2: mom can get a break. Or when we have new
S2: neighbors move in, we can invite them over for s'mores
S2: in the backyard, or bring some flowers. And just real
S2: practical ways to teach our kids that the Lord has
S2: placed them at each military installation on purpose, um, for
S2: them to serve and love.
S5: I think that whole theme of service, which is at
S5: the heart of what the Christian lifestyle is all about,
S5: if if non-military couples can teach their children to thank
S5: military couples, you know, and for what they're doing. I
S5: was just walking through an airport some time ago and
S5: there were about five, I think 5 or 6 military
S5: people there dressed in military garb. And this family was
S5: walking by. And this young boy, I'm guessing he was
S5: six years old. He looked up to these military people
S5: and he said, thank you for protecting us. And I thought, man,
S5: those parents are doing a great job at that age
S5: that he has that concept. You know, that they're there
S5: serving us. So yeah. So whether you're in the military
S5: or out of military, if you're a Christian, service is
S5: a theme of our lifestyle. Now, Tim and Ashley, with
S5: your fourth child, you got some surprising news. Tell us
S5: what happened.
S2: When we had our fourth baby, Tim wanted to have
S2: a gender reveal party because those weren't popular when we
S2: had our first three kids. So he wanted to shoot
S2: off some confetti and find out what the gender of
S2: our baby was. And at our OB that we were at,
S2: they said the way they did that was through blood work.
S2: And so when I received a phone call from my
S2: OB office, I simply anticipated them saying that I would
S2: be picking up a card at the front office, that
S2: it was available with the gender. But the lady informed
S2: me that, in fact, my blood work showed that there
S2: was a nine out of ten chance that our baby
S2: would have down syndrome, and unfortunately, there was no support
S2: offered on that phone call. And I was completely ignorant
S2: about down syndrome. So I was an absolute wreck with
S2: that news. Uh, called Tim right away at work. He
S2: rushed home to comfort me and explained to me the
S2: truth that I knew in my heart, but that my
S2: head just couldn't wrap itself around, was that the Lord
S2: would be blessing us with this child, and he would
S2: use this baby for for his kingdom purposes. And while
S2: I was in the middle of writing this book, she
S2: was born nine weeks early with two holes in her heart,
S2: weighing just £2 and 12oz. And we lived in the
S2: Ronald McDonald House for three months while she was in
S2: the hospital. It was a complete surprise to us. Um,
S2: nothing we would have planned for, but it has been
S2: the biggest blessing in our life and brought the most
S2: joy to our family. Amidst the challenges, um, God knows
S2: what he's doing for our families. You know, when he
S2: sends these surprises.
S5: How old is she now?
S2: She is 21 months now.
S5: Oh, Tim, what was your, uh, thoughts and feelings and
S5: emotions during that time?
S3: You know, I think as we talked about earlier, God's
S3: presence is always there and shows up when you need
S3: it most. And I was in the busiest job I've
S3: ever had when Ashley texted me and said, I need
S3: you to call me right away. And that was always
S3: you can tell right when you need to stop what
S3: you're doing, regardless of how important you think it is.
S3: And I called her and she was, um, I guess
S3: hysterical in the sense of the word I was concerned
S3: that she had lost the baby, and when she told
S3: me it was a diagnosis for down syndrome. It was
S3: almost a sense of relief because what came out was,
S3: it'll be okay. And I don't know that I, without
S3: God's presence, would have been able to say that otherwise. Um,
S3: the weight of carrying a child and going through delivery,
S3: I believe, is so much more on the mother. But when,
S3: as the husband and the father, the other kids, you
S3: realize that your wife is in such a vulnerable state
S3: with a child with special needs, it really awakens you.
S3: And I will say that it was God's way of
S3: really shaking me and reprioritizing what's important. So God had
S3: a at a different way of using that towards me,
S3: But I will emphasize what Ashley said, that it has
S3: been a blessing that we could never have imagined, despite
S3: its challenges.
S5: Yeah, I think any parent who's listening who has a
S5: special needs child, can certainly identify with everything that both
S5: of you are saying. Ashley, in every chapter in your book,
S5: you end with a section called Modeling Jesus. Why do
S5: you think that's an essential ingredient for a successful marriage?
S5: And how have you seen that play out in your
S5: own marriage?
S2: I think it is the most essential thing for us
S2: to do is to model Jesus in our marriages. And
S2: far beyond that, you know, in our communities and our
S2: parenting everything. But where that I really learned that lesson
S2: came when we were stationed in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. And
S2: it had been a decade of me just feeling bitterness
S2: and resentful for all the sacrifices that I had had
S2: to make at a as a military spouse. And I
S2: just reached a point where I was tired of myself
S2: and I didn't want to feel that way anymore. And
S2: so I decided lent was approaching, and I decided to
S2: fast from being a bitter wife for 40 days. And
S2: in that place I decided to create 40 challenges. So
S2: for 40 days I loved him extravagantly and selflessly, even
S2: if I didn't feel like it. Um, just to really
S2: try and model Jesus. And we both agree that those
S2: 40 days were the best 40 days that we've had
S2: in 15 years of marriage, and Tim didn't want it
S2: to end when it was over. So he in turn
S2: created a 40 day challenge for me. And that's where
S2: I think we both really learned practically kind of boots
S2: on the ground. What does it look like to model
S2: Jesus in your marriage? And then we saw the benefits
S2: of that.
S5: Yeah. If a husband and a wife can both have
S5: the attitude of Christ, who said I didn't come to
S5: be served? I came to serve. Are they going to
S5: be on a road to a healthy marriage, whether you're
S5: in the military or out of the military? Absolutely. Well,
S5: talk to the couple going through some very real and
S5: difficult times in their military marriage. Uh, what advice would
S5: either of you, uh, give to them?
S2: I would first say, I see you. You know, we've
S2: been through multiple deployments. We have lost all of our
S2: belongings in a housing situation. We have lost babies and
S2: trying to create a marriage and sustain a marriage. Cultivate
S2: a marriage amidst that is very challenging, and I would
S2: say that you can't do it alone. So if both parties, um,
S2: will just invest into Christ, into the church, I think
S2: that that's really imperative to help you through that. For us,
S2: counseling has been a significant part of our healing journey
S2: and finding a biblically and clinically informed therapist to help
S2: you process everything and continue to grow together. And I
S2: also think being around other brothers and sisters in Christ
S2: as a couple together is really important. Um, having people
S2: over for your from church together or being a part
S2: of a Bible study together so you can see what
S2: it looks like when other men and women who love
S2: Jesus are trying to love their spouses.
S5: Yeah. Jim, would you add anything to that?
S3: I would, I, I would say that in the hardest
S3: of times, one of your chapters really was striking for
S3: me in Five Love Languages, and I think it Ashley's
S3: book is almost a book on that chapter, and it's
S3: love is a choice and modeling Jesus. Jesus chose to
S3: love people that did not love him back. And Ashley's
S3: book takes that concept into practical application for couples that
S3: are in a really hard place where the easy choice
S3: is to give up, and the cadet prayer says choose
S3: the harder right over, the easier wrong, I think. Which
S3: segues into another theme of loving the unlovely. Ashley has
S3: had to love the unlovely more times than I can remember,
S3: and fortunately for me, I. Ashley's lovely, so I've never
S3: had to reciprocate. And I mean that sincerely. But through
S3: this military life and just through marriage, any couple going
S3: through a battlefield, right. Choosing to love the unlovely and
S3: making that choice to love with grace and mercy like
S3: Jesus did.
S5: Yeah, well, actually, writing was always a dream of yours.
S5: And I assume that with your children and all the
S5: kind of things we've been talking about that you've gone through,
S5: you must have had to put that idea on the
S5: shelf for a while. Uh, talk to those people who
S5: maybe have a dream. It may not be writing, but
S5: they have a dream, but they can't see a way
S5: to achieve it. What would you say to them?
S2: I love how God puts dreams in our hearts. Even
S2: from childhood, I'd always wanted to write ever since I
S2: was a little girl, and I think just being in
S2: constant prayer with God about that dream and asking him
S2: to open and close the doors to make that dream happen,
S2: if that's his will. Also, there's been seasons where I definitely,
S2: you know, with three kids under five, earlier on in
S2: our marriage, there was no way I could write a book.
S2: But there were simple ways I could cultivate the craft
S2: by writing a blog while the kids were napping, or
S2: taking a course online while they were sleeping at night.
S2: Just little things that that you can, um, continue to
S2: learn in whatever that dream is that you're trying to achieve.
S2: And then I would also say to connect with others
S2: in the area that are pursuing that same dream that
S2: you want to achieve, whether that's, you know, if you
S2: really want to excel as a homeschool mom, connecting with
S2: other moms who love Jesus that are homeschooling and, um,
S2: just whatever that craft is, I would say just, yeah,
S2: be in prayer, cultivate it in the moments when you can,
S2: and then just leave it up to God for him
S2: to create the opportunities, um, if that's his will for you.
S5: Well, lastly, as we come toward the end of our
S5: time together today, we haven't talked a lot about PTSD. Uh,
S5: can you address the stress on a family and the
S5: returning soldier. Who's going through that?
S2: Yeah, absolutely. And I'd love to hear Tim's perspective on this, too.
S2: But PTSD is something that we are so intimately familiar
S2: with in our community. One of my best friends lost
S2: her husband to suicide because of PTSD, and it's something
S2: that we need to keep at the forefront of our conversations. Um,
S2: we need to know the signs and symptoms of PTSD,
S2: and it doesn't just happen on deployments. It can happen
S2: in trainings. It can happen in daily operations in our
S2: military community as well. So the book has a full
S2: list of things that you need to be aware of
S2: as a military spouse. Um, and also just to we
S2: need to be keeping the dialogue open with our husbands, um,
S2: checking in on them. Uh, sometimes they won't share with us. So, um,
S2: being in prayer also that God would lead them to
S2: open up and to share with whether that's their chaplain
S2: or somebody in their chain of command or ourselves. But, um,
S2: this is something that is definitely a challenge in our community.
S5: Yeah. Tim, what would you say to that?
S3: I would point back to something we discussed earlier of
S3: of really leaning into as a spouse, leaning into your spouse,
S3: of asking questions. And, and I understand, you know, sometimes
S3: we can't talk about the scenario or we don't want to.
S3: But for me, it has been especially healing to be
S3: able to be completely transparent with Ashley on whatever it
S3: is I've been through. You know, we can't have those
S3: same level of conversations with our kids, but our kids
S3: also know why I don't particularly care for a house
S3: full of balloons during a party. And, uh, they get it.
S3: They understand that. And that's been a nice way. Ashley's, uh.
S3: gently been able to to love me and and support
S3: me as an anecdote. But there is an abundance of
S3: resources out there. I think we're at a transition to
S3: where it's was stigmatized, and it has it is not
S3: as stigmatized. And and I would take advantage of every resource, um,
S3: both the service member, the spouse. And again, it doesn't
S3: have to be a military service member or family going
S3: through PTSD. And to what Ashley said earlier, you know,
S3: biblically based counseling is is key and essential. It may
S3: not be perfect and it may not solve everything you're
S3: going through, but it it gets things out there in
S3: a in a neutral playing field and really helps you
S3: start to unpack it and understand it a bit better.
S3: And again, just that choice to love that's that's part
S3: of it is doing the hard work.
S5: Yeah. Well, Tim and Ashley, I want to thank you
S5: for being with us today on the program and Ashley
S5: for writing this book. And I just want to say
S5: to our listeners, this is not just a book to
S5: be read by military wives or military couples. I wish
S5: civilian couples could read this book, because it will give
S5: you a picture of a lifestyle that you're not familiar with,
S5: and it will also help you be more effective in
S5: praying for and encouraging military couples that you may know.
S5: So thanks again for being with us and looking forward
S5: to how God is going to use this book to
S5: help others.
S2: Thank you so much for this opportunity. It's been an
S2: absolute pleasure.
S3: Thank you, Doctor Chapman. If I could just say it
S3: is surreal for us to be talking with someone who
S3: has changed the lexicon in our society. When we talk about, hey,
S3: you're not talking my love language, whether it's at home
S3: or work, it is just an absolute honor.
S5: Well thank you.
S4: The title of that book is Mission Ready Marriage A
S4: Christian Guide to Discovering Hope and purpose as a military wife.
S4: But I agree with Gary. Everybody get a copy. Read it.
S4: It's by Ashley Ashcraft. She and her husband, Tim have
S4: been our guests today. You can find out more at
S4: Building Relationships, Building Relationships.
S5: And next week we open the lines for your questions
S5: and comments.
S1: Well that's right. And you can leave a message for
S1: Doctor Chapman now at 1866424. Gary again call with any
S1: relationship question. You have 1-866-424-4279. Our thanks to Janice backing
S1: and Steve Wick for their work behind the scenes. Building
S1: relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody
S1: Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody
S1: Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.