S1: God provides us healthy boundaries in life. Not just gods know,
S1: but also God's. Yes. And so we have to be
S1: able to help our kids to see the goodness of
S1: biblical sexuality, and that how this is provided by God
S1: for our good to thrive.
S2: Welcome to Building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Well,
S2: how do you effectively teach teenagers about biblical sexuality? Parents
S2: and grandparents will want to hear more about the Holy
S2: Sexuality Project on today's program.
S3: I think this is going to be one of those
S3: resources that will help a mom and dad, grandma, grandpa
S3: who are facing all of the changes in the culture
S3: about sexuality and identity and really give solid biblical direction.
S3: So excited we have Dr. Christopher Ewen with us today. Gary,
S3: this is a huge issue in the church and in
S3: the culture, isn't it?
S4: No question about it. Chris, just recently in our own
S4: church here, our pastor or essentially our pastors got together
S4: and said, you know, we've got to address some of
S4: these issues. So they just kind of taught us six weeks,
S4: you know, course dealing, just dealing with some of these things. So, yeah,
S4: this is very important in our culture. And I am
S4: great for that. We have Christopher with us today to
S4: discuss this, and I hope our listeners will stay tuned
S4: because this is going to be extremely helpful.
S3: Well, let me introduce him. Dr. Christopher Ewen is a
S3: 2005 graduate of Moody Bible Institute. He received a master's
S3: in Biblical Exegesis in 2007, a doctorate in ministry in 2014.
S3: His speaking ministry on faith and sexuality has reached five continents.
S3: He and his mother, Angela, co-wrote the memoir out of
S3: a Far Country A Gay Son's Journey to God A
S3: Broken Mother's Search for Hope. It sold more than 130,000
S3: copies in eight languages. We've talked about his book Holy
S3: Sexuality in the gospel here in the program, which was
S3: named the 2020 book of the year for Social Issues
S3: by Outreach Magazine. Now that book has been adapted as
S3: a video series, it's called The Holy Sexuality Project. It
S3: released in June of 2023, and it's a 12 lesson,
S3: 36 video series on biblical sexuality specifically for parents and
S3: grandparents and their teens or pre-teens. That's what we're going
S3: to talk about today. You can go to Holy sexuality.com
S3: to find out more, or you can find a link
S3: at our website. Building relationships.us.
S4: Well, Dr. Yuan, welcome back to Building Relationships.
S1: Oh, thanks so much for having me back.
S4: Dr. Chapman know you were with us four years ago
S4: talking about the book Holy Sexuality and the gospel. Tell
S4: us about this new video series and what's the purpose
S4: behind this new effort?
S1: Well, you know, very much like the book. I, I
S1: wanted to help Christians to have a really solid biblical
S1: theological foundation. Oftentimes we want to kind of jump into
S1: doing right, but we need to think right before doing right.
S1: And I think once we have that foundation, there's going
S1: to be so many different things. I mean, we're we're
S1: seeing all this kind of surprise as we see as
S1: we're dealing with sexuality and gender, but new things are
S1: going to come in 5 or 10 years. And when
S1: we have a solid foundation, we're going to be able
S1: to kind of build on that. So really, the the
S1: purpose behind this video series is to empower parents and
S1: their teens and preteens to understand, embrace and celebrate biblical sexuality.
S1: We don't want just people to understand because that's just
S1: head knowledge, but we want them to embrace it for themselves.
S1: This is so good that I that I'm going to
S1: live it out for myself. But, you know, it's not
S1: just so good for myself. We want them to celebrate.
S1: And that means we're going to tell others about how
S1: good is God's truth when it comes to sexuality, relationships.
S4: Well, certainly a needed area in our culture today, for sure.
S4: For those who don't know your story, can you give
S4: a brief overview of how you became a Christian and
S4: your own background?
S1: Sure. I wasn't raised in a Christian home and I
S1: wrestled with my sexuality from a young age. I came
S1: out of the closet as I would have said it
S1: back then. I told my parents I broke the news
S1: that I was gay, devastated my mom and dad. But
S1: through that crisis, this is what's so cool, Dr. Chapman.
S1: My mother came to faith and then my father did
S1: as well. And after, you know, I saw the change
S1: in them. But I thought, good for you, not for me.
S1: I went in the total opposite direction. I'm originally from Chicago.
S1: I was in Louisville, Kentucky at that time pursuing my
S1: doctorate in dentistry, and I just went did what all
S1: my friends were doing at that time, which was have
S1: fun party. I was spending a lot of time in
S1: the bars and the gay clubs, and this whole time
S1: my parents had no idea I was not only, you know,
S1: spending time in the clubs. I started experimenting with drugs.
S1: And this whole time while I was a graduate student student,
S1: I was. Eventually, unfortunately expelled from dental school. I was
S1: not only doing drugs, but selling drugs. I moved from Louisville,
S1: Kentucky to Atlanta, and there I kept doing what I
S1: knew how to do best, which was live in the
S1: world and have fun, quote unquote fun. And I was
S1: not only doing drugs, selling drugs, but also supplying drugs.
S1: Like I said, my parents didn't know all the depths
S1: of just rejection of God and His ways, but they
S1: knew that I needed to know Jesus Christ as my
S1: Lord and Savior. So they tried to reach out to
S1: the love of Christ. I wanted nothing to do with it.
S1: They came to visit me one time in Atlanta. I
S1: kicked them out. And you know, here's the funny thing, Dr. Chapman,
S1: that we hear that the narrative is Christian parents cannot
S1: love their gay children. They have to actually throw the
S1: Bible away. They have to become a so-called progressive Christian
S1: to love their gay child. I had the exact opposite experience.
S1: My parents were not Christian. They rejected me. It wasn't
S1: until they became followers of Christ they could do nothing
S1: other than to love me as God loved them while
S1: they were still sinners, while they were enemies. So I began.
S1: I just rejected them. Kick them out. My dad, before
S1: he left, gave me his Bible. I threw it in
S1: the trash can and it was so obvious that I
S1: was hopeless. But my parents committed not to focus on hopelessness,
S1: but upon the promises of God. And over, along with
S1: over 100 prayer warriors, they began to cry out to
S1: God for me. My mom began to pray a bold prayer.
S1: Do whatever it takes God to bring this prodigal son
S1: to you. Well, that answer to prayer. And she fasted
S1: every Monday for seven years, 39 days. One time that
S1: answer to prayer came with a bang on my door.
S1: And it was 12 federal drug enforcement agents, Atlanta police,
S1: two big German Shepherd dogs. So I found myself in jail.
S1: And a few days after that, I was walking around
S1: the cellblock. And you know what I found, Dr. Chapman?
S1: A Gideon's New Testament on top of the trash. Took
S1: it back to my cell block, to my prison cell,
S1: and I began reading it, not thinking that, you know,
S1: this is a good book. I just thought, I've got
S1: tons of time on my hands. Well, as we know,
S1: God's word is sharper than any double edged sword. And
S1: it began to convict me and I thought, things are
S1: going to get worse. Well it did. I got news
S1: that I was HIV positive. I was called to the
S1: nurse's office and I got that news and I was
S1: just devastated. Well, a few days after that, I was
S1: laying in my cell and I look up at the
S1: metal bunk above me and someone had scribbled, if you're bored,
S1: read Jeremiah 2911. There could have been any verse, for
S1: I know the plans that I have for you, declares
S1: the Lord, plans to prosper you, not to harm you,
S1: plans to give you a future and a hope. I mean,
S1: this verse was written to Judah in rebellion, in exile,
S1: and I knew that if God could still have a
S1: plan for Judah, he may even still have a plan
S1: for me. Well, I didn't know what that meant, and
S1: I just began diving myself into the Bible. And I
S1: just thought, well, maybe I could have my cake and
S1: eat it too. Maybe I can have God and still
S1: live in this way that doesn't align with his truth.
S1: So I went to a chaplain and I asked him
S1: his opinion. And this chaplain, this is so shocking. He
S1: gave me a book explaining that the Bible does not
S1: condemn homosexuality. And I thought, great, I had that book
S1: in one hand, the Bible and the other. Everything inside
S1: of me wanted to affirm it, but it was God's
S1: indwelling Holy Spirit that convicted me that this was a
S1: distortion of God in His Word, gave it back to
S1: the chaplain. I turned to the Bible alone, and I
S1: realized that God that I had put my identity in
S1: the wrong thing. And God was not calling me just
S1: to change my desires. That was so limited. He was
S1: calling me to holiness. And so a God called me to.
S1: And also don't put my identity in my sexuality or
S1: in anything alone. My identity need to be in Jesus
S1: Christ alone. So it was during this time God called
S1: me to ministry while I was in prison. I applied
S1: to Moody while I was in prison. My and you'll
S1: love this. My references were prison chaplain, a prison guard,
S1: and another inmate. So amazingly I was accepted. Released from
S1: prison in July of 2001. Start the very next month.
S1: And so I was so excited to be at Moody
S1: and I finished it. Moody 2005 went on to my
S1: master's and exegesis, as Chris was saying, and I actually
S1: taught at Moody for 12 years, which is an enormous blessing.
S1: And I had the great honor to co-author book with
S1: mom called out of a Far Country a Gay son
S1: on this journey to God, a Broken Mother. Search for Hope,
S1: and then write this book.
S4: Well, that that original book was a powerful story. And
S4: what you've just shared with us is a powerful story
S4: of God's work. You know, he knows. How to find
S4: us where we are and to bring us to himself. So, well,
S4: thanks for sharing that. I think it's important for our
S4: listeners to to understand who you are and the journey
S4: you've been on. You know, as we've come to discuss
S4: this new book, so is it fair to say that
S4: you want young people to know what the Bible really
S4: says about sexuality instead of a caricature that they may
S4: have heard? If I'm coming from common culture.
S1: Absolutely. You know, when we see right now what's going
S1: on in the culture, especially among our kids, not just
S1: teenagers and pre-teens, but our kids in grade school, as
S1: a matter of fact, our ministry team what we really
S1: want to do first, they wanted my parents. They wanted
S1: to do a video series for kids because that's really
S1: where they're being started to be attacked by this information.
S1: And I kind of vetoed it because I thought, we
S1: need something for preteens and teens first, and then. So
S1: our actually our next project is the Holy Sexuality Project
S1: for children and for kids. But there I feel like
S1: there's a tsunami of misinformation from from our from the
S1: culture and from public school and from their peers and
S1: from media and from Disney, from Google. And so we
S1: need to help our kids to see that, that there
S1: are healthy boundaries. Just as parents provide healthy boundaries for
S1: their children. God provides us healthy boundaries in life, and
S1: we need to know what those are. Not just gods know,
S1: but also gods. Yes. And so we have to be
S1: able to help our kids to see the goodness of
S1: biblical sexuality, and that how this is provided by God
S1: for our good to thrive.
S2: This is building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Well,
S2: there are so many parents and grandparents who will benefit
S2: from our guests. Resource. Dr. Christopher Ewen is talking about
S2: the Holy Sexuality Project, a 12 lesson, 36 video series
S2: on biblical sexuality. You can find out more at our website.
S2: Building relationships.us or go to Holy Sexuality. Com.
S4: So, Christopher, what makes the Holy Sexuality Project different from
S4: other presentations on sexuality?
S1: Yeah. You know, I think there's been a few resources
S1: in the past that helped help our kids to understand
S1: while there are kids, while they're teenagers, how there needs
S1: to be some limitation and some boundaries, but sometimes comes off.
S1: It's just this, don't do this, don't do that, don't
S1: do this. And to be honest, Dr. Chapman, those actually
S1: are very important things we need to be teaching our
S1: kids in general, not just on sexuality. This is what
S1: you should not do. But we can't stop there because
S1: we can't build a Christian life just on God's know
S1: what is God's. Yes, we need to know. God's know
S1: and God's yes, not only on sexuality but in general.
S1: And so that's why I kind of wrote my book.
S1: And also, I knew I needed to communicate this with
S1: this video series for parents and their teens and and
S1: not just for parents, but also for grandparents in their teens.
S1: And so we we see that relationships are so, so important.
S1: One of the most important relationships that we have is
S1: between a parent and a child. And yet, unfortunately, as
S1: we're seeing in the world now more than ever, that
S1: relationship is trying to be hijacked, if you will. It's
S1: taken away. Public schools, government. They give this impression that
S1: they can do a better job, especially if you are
S1: a Christian parent. You might be giving information to your
S1: children that's harming them. That's essentially the message that we're
S1: hearing today. And there's now pushback, which is good pushback
S1: because that's incorrect. But here's something else that's happening. We
S1: can see how that's being almost enforced on us through
S1: the public schools and the government today. But I think
S1: there is almost a sense where Christian parents are kind
S1: of forfeiting their responsibility of parenting to someone else. Where
S1: does that happen? I think unfortunately, it's sometimes happening in
S1: the youth group. Now, this is not intentional, but I
S1: think sometimes parents think, well, I'm going to drop my
S1: kids off at youth group and the youth pastor is
S1: going to do my job. What is that? They're going
S1: to do the job of discipling my children. Now, should
S1: youth pastors disciple their children? Absolutely. But they shouldn't be
S1: the primary disciple. So what sets this apart, different from
S1: other presentations is we're actually very intentionally not designing this
S1: to show to youth groups. Now, is that a bad thing?
S1: Have solutely not. I think that's good. But here's the issue.
S1: I haven't really found any resources that are primarily not
S1: for youth group, and they're primarily for the home because
S1: these discussions about biblical sexuality need to be primarily done,
S1: not so much in the classroom, not so much in
S1: the youth group room, but in the living room and
S1: the dining room and the family room. So this is
S1: what I think sets us apart, where we are actually
S1: in strongly encouraging home discipleship. And that takes a lot
S1: of paradigm shifting and breaking of paradigms, because I think
S1: even in churches, we are kind of inadvertently giving this
S1: impression that, you know, parents, give us your kids and
S1: we'll do your work now. I mean, the schools, they
S1: will teach our kids about math and science. ET cetera.
S1: But when it comes to sexuality, that has to happen
S1: primarily at home. So so that's really, I think, what
S1: sets this video series apart to really empower parents and
S1: grandparents to do the job that God has ordained them
S1: to do.
S5: Yeah.
S4: Greatly, greatly needed in our culture today. You mentioned grandparents.
S4: I was speaking recently, and a host told me that
S4: in their state, 60% of the children in that state
S4: are being raised by grandparents, primarily because, you know, the
S4: parents are either on drugs, they're in prison, or they've died.
S4: And I know that you have a heart for those
S4: grandparents and what they're up against in today's culture as well.
S1: Yes, I really do. And this comes a lot from
S1: my mom and dad. My my dad went home to
S1: be with the Lord. He was 82. My mom now
S1: is 81. So, you know, she knows as being a grandmother.
S1: Their spiritual grandmother and the need for grandparents, because right now,
S1: it's all hands on deck. Dr. Chapman. There. We need everyone.
S1: There's such an onslaught. There's so much misinformation. And like
S1: you say, I mean parents, sometimes they're not there, but
S1: also parents. It's they're busy. They're they they have to work.
S1: They they got to provide. They've got other children. So
S1: we need grandparents to come alongside. And why is that important?
S1: Because God has ordained them to be a part in
S1: discipling their children. We know Deuteronomy six very well. That's
S1: where we got the greatest commandment, hero Israel. And it says,
S1: you know, to love the Lord your God, love the
S1: Lord your God with all their heart, with all your soul,
S1: and with all your might. Well, what's the context of that?
S1: Right before that it says that we need to teach
S1: these things. Teach them diligently to your children. Well, I'm.
S1: I want to challenge parents and grandparents. Are you teaching
S1: your children diligently the ways of the Lord? Not only that,
S1: but also biblical sexuality. Because I'll tell you right now
S1: who's trying to do that diligently the world, their peers,
S1: the media. And we need to be even more diligent
S1: in doing this. But here's something else that gets to
S1: your question, Dr. Chapman, when it comes to grandparents. Well,
S1: at the beginning of chapter six, in verse two, it
S1: says that that we need to teach them to fear
S1: the Lord your God, who you, your son and your
S1: son's son. So actually, right here in the greatest commandment,
S1: the context of that is discipleship by parents and their children,
S1: but also right here. Let's not miss this. Grandparents and
S1: their grandchildren. There are so many reasons why this is
S1: so important. I mean, first of all, grandparents usually have
S1: more time. Well, when I say this, I often get
S1: grandparents and they shake their head, no, I'm busier than ever. Yes,
S1: you have more flexibility, but let's redeem that time. Are
S1: we simply just relaxing, or do we realize actually God
S1: has ordained grandparents right here in Deuteronomy six grandparents to
S1: be some of the people that are diligently teaching their
S1: grandchildren now have fun with your grandchildren. But having fun
S1: does not save our kids. Are we passing on a legacy,
S1: a legacy of the Lord that will be eternal? Having fun,
S1: taking them to soccer games, all that stuff that's temporary.
S1: Even providing resources, even providing monetary legacy. Legacy. That's temporary.
S1: Let's pass on a legacy that is eternal, that's grounded
S1: in God's truth. Yeah.
S4: So important. So important. You alluded to this earlier, but
S4: paint a picture of what's happening with sexuality in our culture.
S4: That is how far away from biblical framework are we today.
S4: And along with that, talk about sharing the gospel with
S4: a gay friend or a family member. What do Christians
S4: not understand about that?
S1: Yeah, very much. You know, in our culture, you know,
S1: having lived as an unbeliever, as an agnostic for so
S1: many years, for the majority of my young adult years,
S1: and I identified as gay, this is who I was.
S1: If there is one thing that I believe that we
S1: don't fully understand when it comes to sharing Christ with
S1: those in the gay community, with understanding our loved ones
S1: who identify as gay or lesbian or transgender. It's how
S1: the world has conflated sexuality with personhood, how the world
S1: has conflated even transgender even once, perception of themselves, the
S1: very subjective reality of their gender with who they are.
S1: Because this is not just an issue of quibbling over terminology.
S1: You know that for myself, Dr. Chapman, I do not
S1: identify as gay. I am not a gay Christian. I
S1: am a Christian. My good friend Rosemary Butterfield, she was
S1: an English professor, so she loves words and she always
S1: says words matter. Words have meaning, an adjective. The purpose
S1: of that is to modify the noun. In other words,
S1: limit the scope of the noun. I don't want there
S1: to be any limitation to who I am in Christ. See, sexuality.
S1: When it comes to sexuality, it's about our our attractions
S1: or our actions, what we feel, the desires we have.
S1: And these could be strong desires and often un chosen
S1: desires that we've had as long as you remember. And
S1: yet no desire, whether sexual, romantic, should ever be who
S1: you are. And we need to understand that, because how
S1: can we discuss with others who don't know Christ, or
S1: they have a distorted view of the gospel? How can
S1: we talk to them that this is sinful behavior when
S1: they don't even view it as behavior? If we were
S1: going to go back, you know, 20 years or more
S1: ago before I knew Christ, and you were to tell
S1: me that this was sin, I would not hear you
S1: say that what I'm doing is sin, or my attractions
S1: are or my desires are sinful or my relationships are sinful.
S1: I would hear you say that my whole person, from
S1: head to toe, is reprehensible to you and to God.
S1: Before I knew Christ, I could not hate my sin
S1: without hating myself. Now that I know Christ, I can
S1: hate my sin without hating myself. So I think to
S1: share the gospel and to better understand what's going on
S1: in the culture, we need to start there. I think
S1: this is the most important starting point, even as we're
S1: looking at. I think this is kind of a litmus
S1: test to see different approaches today. Are we getting identity right?
S1: This is not just a label. Are we getting this
S1: terminology right? Why would we ever use a terminology, a
S1: word that's rooted in our brokenness and in the fall
S1: and in sin to try to win people to Christ?
S1: Because that's more of a bait and switch. We just
S1: need to use the power of the gospel and how
S1: we all are new creations in Christ to win them
S1: to Jesus.
S4: That's a message I think, that Christians need to hear
S4: and think seriously about. You know, we haven't talked yet
S4: about the term holy sexuality. Can you unpack that for us?
S1: Sure. I know that for many people, that's a brand
S1: new term. What what does that mean? Well, it came
S1: out of sort of my frustration as I was that I,
S1: that I was actually pigeonholing myself. And I feel that
S1: many Christians, we pigeonhole ourselves into the wrong framework. And
S1: that framework is heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality, which essentially divides up humanity,
S1: categorizes humanity according to our sexual desires. That's not what
S1: God intended, that we need to kind of put ourselves
S1: in different groups according to what we feel and the
S1: desires that we might have. And whenever I see a secular,
S1: it's a Freudian framework. I always want to choose a
S1: biblical framework. Over, over. Or a secular one. And what
S1: is that biblical framework? It's a framework that doesn't divide
S1: ourselves according to our sexual or romantic desires, but one
S1: that is grounded in holiness. So it's not heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality.
S1: I think we should set that whole framework aside. And
S1: to be honest, even those terms heterosexuality or heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, gay,
S1: straight by those actually do not describe people. They describe
S1: our feelings, our actions, our experience. A desire is not
S1: a person. So it's not heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, but holy sexuality.
S1: And what is holy sexuality? Well, reading through the full
S1: counsel of God, there's actually only two paths that God
S1: lays out for us. The first path is if when
S1: you are single, be sexually abstinent, and then the other
S1: path is if you marry. And I'm just using the
S1: biblical definition of marriage, not the one that the state
S1: and the world has changed the definition. But this is
S1: actually affirmed by Jesus himself in Matthew 19 and Mark
S1: chapter ten, that marriage is between a man and a woman,
S1: a male and a female. So if you marry, how
S1: are you going to live? You're going to be faithful
S1: to your spouse of the opposite sex. So, quite simply,
S1: holy sexuality is chastity in singleness or faithfulness in marriage.
S1: And that is good news for all.
S2: Thanks for joining us today for building relationships with Dr.
S2: Gary Chapman, New York Times bestselling author of The Five
S2: Love Languages. For more ways to strengthen relationships, just go
S2: to Building Relationships with us. You'll find upcoming seminars with Dr.
S2: Chapman and a link to our featured resource, Dr. Christopher
S2: Yuan's video series, The Holy Sexuality Project. Go to Building
S2: relationships.us or go directly to Holy sexuality.com.
S4: In the program that we're discussing, the Holy Sexuality Project,
S4: which you've done to help parents and grandparents. In the
S4: first lesson you say, and I'm quoting here, the ultimate
S4: goal when it comes to sexuality is to glorify God
S4: by denying yourself, taking up your cross, and following Jesus.
S4: Can you elaborate on that?
S1: Yeah, I'd love to. So in this video series, I
S1: was kind of pulling on some traditions of the church
S1: for the past several millennia. And that's catechism. So when
S1: it comes to our children, we categorize them in God's truth.
S1: And I think that's kind of taken from Deuteronomy six.
S1: But here's something that's kind of sad. I think sometimes
S1: we're we're we're not doing it a diligent job in that.
S1: But the world is categorizing our children. And in this
S1: tradition of catechisms, catechisms for so long, for many centuries
S1: and millennia has been essentially a question and an answer
S1: question and answer question. So we'd be teaching these. We
S1: would teach these to our kids. What's the question? What's
S1: the answer? So I kind of pulled on that with
S1: this video series, even though you know, the video, the
S1: medium is very new. But this this is old traditions,
S1: question and answer. So all these 12 lessons all have
S1: a question and answer. Some of them have a couple
S1: questions and a couple answers. And so with lesson one,
S1: which just started with my testimony, I the question for
S1: that lesson was what is the ultimate goal when it
S1: comes to sexuality? And that answer, I really wanted to
S1: frame this entire video series, all 12 lessons with that lesson.
S1: One question and that lesson one answer. To make this
S1: Krista centric, I wanted to lift up the supremacy of Christ.
S1: As I was reviewing many of the resources out there,
S1: I thought a lot of them were helpful, but it
S1: had this tendency to focus a bit on human effort.
S1: This is what you needed to do. This is what
S1: you needed to not do. And it kind of made
S1: made secondary a relationship with Christ and submitting joyfully to Christ.
S1: Whether it was the don't do's in the past and
S1: some of the newer ones that that, you know, give
S1: this impression of, well, we just need to be nicer.
S1: We need to just love and and if I could
S1: even say here, should we love. Absolutely. My my issue
S1: is not with loving. My issue is with the just
S1: I get this a lot, Dr. Chapman, where people say
S1: my job is to just love. Now should we love. Absolutely.
S1: But should we just love that then makes love an
S1: end in itself? We need to make love a means
S1: to an end, and that end must always be Christ.
S1: Should we be more loving, should be more gracious? Absolutely.
S1: But we need to be careful that we shouldn't think
S1: that we were. We are where we are today. Ten
S1: years ago, ten years ago, 20 years ago, I think Christians,
S1: we were kind of at the risk of being more
S1: truth at the expense of grace. So we need to
S1: be more gracious and compassionate. That's not where we are today. Today,
S1: what I'm seeing among our youth, our young adults and
S1: even some of the approaches is that we are grace
S1: at the expense of truth. We need to be like Jesus.
S1: John 114. Full of grace and full of truth. That's
S1: what Christ was, full of grace and full of truth.
S1: So the goal of this whole video series is to
S1: lift up the supremacy of Christ, and that we ultimately
S1: our goal is to follow Jesus. And what does that
S1: mean to deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Jesus.
S1: That foundation applies to whether you are a single guy,
S1: a single girl, whether you are married. We all need
S1: to deny yourself, take up a cross and follow Jesus.
S4: With that as a foundation. What are some of the
S4: topics that you cover in this series?
S1: Yeah, we have 12 lessons, and in this video series
S1: we start lesson one with talking about my testimony. Lesson
S1: two because identity is so important, I actually talk on
S1: what how sexuality is a false identity. And then lesson
S1: three I talk about what is our true identity, that
S1: it is the image of God. You know, we identity
S1: is so, so important. And I think this is the
S1: one thing that I think sometimes we miss that I
S1: actually spent two whole lessons talking about identity. Then lesson
S1: four I break down the concept of attraction, desire and temptation.
S1: A lot of there's a lot of discussions about same
S1: sex attractions. Is it sinful or not? And I think
S1: the problem is we when we're talking about biblical things,
S1: we need to use biblical words. And attraction is not
S1: a word found in the Bible. And so when we're
S1: trying to figure out, well, is this right or wrong?
S1: Is it sinful or not? I think it's always best
S1: to be as clear as possible to use biblical terminology,
S1: desire and temptation. And I help kids to realize temptation
S1: is not sin. It could quickly lead to sin. But
S1: desiring something that is sinful is sinful in itself. That's
S1: from Matthew five, where Jesus says, if a man looks
S1: lustfully at a woman, and that word lustfully in Greek
S1: is the same word that we translate as desire, that
S1: that temptation, that if we look lustfully at a woman
S1: that's already considered lust, that's in five. I introduce this
S1: concept of holy sexuality, which we just talked about. And
S1: then lesson six, singleness what it is, what it is not,
S1: and then marriage. Lesson seven and then I talked about
S1: this great question that I didn't have in my book.
S1: What's the big deal? You probably heard this before, Dr. Chapman.
S1: Kids are just thinking, why is God so concerned about
S1: what people do in the privacy of our own home?
S1: So I have an entire lesson talking about that. Lesson
S1: nine these myths that that kids are hearing on, you know,
S1: the the authorities, the experts on TikTok. And so we're
S1: dispelling some of these myths on the Bible and homosexuality.
S1: Less than ten talk about sex, gender and the image
S1: of God. And then lesson 11 and 12 it gets
S1: to really practical things. How do we minister to someone
S1: struggling with sexual temptations? How do you respond to someone
S1: in unrepentant sexual sin? And then less than 12 is
S1: following Jesus. How do we follow Jesus in the midst
S1: of trials and temptations?
S4: Well, you know, I think parents and grandparents who are
S4: listening to us today and hearing those topics and hearing
S4: that you deal with these things, they recognize the value
S4: of it, but they're also a little uncomfortable when they
S4: think about my teenager, you know, and talking with them
S4: about sexuality. So how do we get over that, that
S4: hurdle of I don't know if this is what I
S4: should be doing.
S6: Yes.
S4: What do you say to those parents who are hesitant?
S1: Yes. And that, I think, is part of kind of
S1: our own experience. You know, I don't know about you, Dr. Chapman,
S1: but I grew up, you know, in the 1970s, and
S1: this was a time that biblical sexuality was generally accepted
S1: and unbiblical sexuality was there was stigma around that, whether
S1: it's divorce, sex before marriage, adultery, today, it's a different world.
S1: Our children are being raised in a time where biblical
S1: sexuality is not only viewed as well. That's old fashioned,
S1: it's even viewed by some to be harmful, to hold
S1: to that view. So when we were raised, I don't
S1: remember a time when my parents talk about sexuality, about sex.
S1: So there's a lot of uncomfortableness and fear, and I
S1: see that as a wall between parents and their teens
S1: and preteens and grandparents and their grandchildren. But guess what?
S1: That wall is not there with their peers. That wall
S1: is not there in school. They feel totally comfortable talking
S1: to their teacher or their school counselor. And and school
S1: counselors today are, as we see, they are actually encouraging
S1: them to get sex changes. ET cetera. Which, of course,
S1: you can't change your sex, but going it's really pushing
S1: them in the wrong direction. They're okay to get online
S1: and and chat or text with these people and talk
S1: about sex. So what we need to do is to
S1: break down that wall. Well, how do we do that?
S1: That's actually one of the main purposes of this video
S1: series that we don't want kids, just we don't want
S1: parents in teens or grandparents in their teens and pre-teen
S1: to just simply watch videos. There's actually a parent guide
S1: that goes along with this video series that will help
S1: these families to have. Have these conversations at home. So
S1: it starts out where the parent or grandparent in like
S1: any one of the lessons, each lesson is the same format.
S1: They're going to read a few sentences or a short paragraph.
S1: They're going to ask a question that kind of primes
S1: the pump and gets a little bit of baseline of
S1: where everyone is at. Then you watch this video. Each
S1: lesson has three videos. So the first video is a
S1: teaching video about ten minutes. Watch that video. After that,
S1: they go through 4 to 6 questions of discussion and
S1: then they watch the second video. Have about that is
S1: about another ten minutes of video teaching. And then they
S1: go through another 4 to 6 questions of discussion after
S1: they finish that second video. And the last video is
S1: a wrap up to kind of go over that question
S1: and answer and really solidify what is being taught. And
S1: then you end up with, after watching that third video,
S1: just with some closing questions, that in all, is about
S1: 45 to 60 minutes of watching the video and discussions.
S1: And let me tell you this great story that we
S1: heard a pastor, he was a New Testament scholar, had
S1: a PhD in New Testament in like four different masters,
S1: and he had a 16 year old daughter that's a
S1: junior in high school and a 14 year old freshman
S1: son about to start high school. Well, he had heard
S1: that this video series was coming out, and so he
S1: got it right away end of June. And he thought
S1: and he wrote to us and he said he wanted
S1: to go through this entire video series before school started.
S1: So he did one lesson every single day for two weeks,
S1: and he emailed us and he told this story. He said,
S1: after lesson one, his 14 year old son told him,
S1: he said, dad, this is so weird. This is so awkward.
S1: I'm talking to my parents about sex. I get it,
S1: I would say the same if I was a parent
S1: or grandparent, I would say the same thing. I feel
S1: so weird, I don't this is awkward. I'm nervous. I'm scared.
S1: But this is what's so cool. Dr. chairman, lesson 12.
S1: At the end, the dad asked the son. He said,
S1: so do you still feel awkward or weird? The son said,
S1: no dad, not at all. He see, when we are
S1: able to have these conversations and this video series is
S1: to facilitate that, to kind of just break the ice,
S1: our hope is to tear down that wall, that separating
S1: parents and their teens from having these really redemptive, gospel centered,
S1: Christ exalting conversations that will really help our kids that
S1: are drowning in a tsunami of misinformation.
S5: Yeah, yeah.
S4: Well, I see this video project as a means for
S4: parents to do what they really in their heart and
S4: know they ought to do. They need to do, but
S4: they don't know how. And this is a tool, I think,
S4: that parents and grandparents are going to find really, really helpful.
S2: This is building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Our
S2: featured resource today is the Holy Sexuality Project by Dr.
S2: Christopher Ewen. It's a 12 lesson, 36 video series for parents, grandparents,
S2: and their teens and pre-teens. Find a link at Building
S2: relationships US or go to Holy Sexuality.
S4: In lesson nine, you tackle myths related to homosexuality in
S4: the Bible. Can you share some of those myths?
S1: You know, I needed to add some stuff to this
S1: video series that I didn't include in the book, and
S1: some of those was not only what's the big deal,
S1: but I wanted to include some of these myths that
S1: we're hearing more and more. Our kids are so, you know,
S1: bound and influenced by their peers, by social media, by TikTok.
S1: And we're getting all these myths about about homosexuality and
S1: what the Bible says and doesn't say. And so I
S1: cover four of these myths David and Jonathan, Jesus silence.
S1: I also cover where people say that it's just about pedophilia,
S1: that when it says, A man shall not lie with
S1: a male, it's about just a boy. But also this
S1: myth about the word homosexual wasn't in the Bible, and
S1: it was somehow falsely introduced in 1946. So, for example,
S1: I mean, over all of these, I wanted to help
S1: our kids to understand how to interpret the Bible, not
S1: just on these issues of homosexuality, but help them to
S1: see that that context is extremely important. And yet there's
S1: different types of context. There's literary context, historical context, and
S1: canonical context. I think oftentimes we're familiar with the literary
S1: and the historical context. But I think a lot of
S1: our our listeners right now, a lot of parents and
S1: teenagers aren't familiar that canonical context is key. For example,
S1: David and Jonathan, we have this myth that they were lovers.
S1: I don't know if your listeners have ever heard of
S1: this crazy story, but they say, oh, they they really
S1: they weren't just friends, they were lovers. And and yet
S1: when we look at the context will realize that, well,
S1: you know, that's that it shows a lot of instances,
S1: for example, that the Bible was very, very honest about
S1: David's sins, whether, you know, obviously with Bathsheba, adultery and
S1: about all the other wives and concubines that he had,
S1: and very frank about his private life, but never shared that,
S1: never talked about David and Jonathan lying together or knowing
S1: each other. Also, the historical context that helps us to see.
S1: There's a passage that says that that Jonathan took off
S1: his robe and gave it to David. Now, as you
S1: can probably guess, in our hypersexualized world, those people that
S1: are trying to twist scripture try to make that sexual, well,
S1: there's nothing sexual about Jonathan giving his robe to David.
S1: What was actually going on here in that context is
S1: Jonathan recognizing that even though he's next to the throne,
S1: he's heir to Saul, the king of Israel? Jonathan was
S1: recognizing that David is the anointed One and David is
S1: the rightful king of Israel. So by him taking off
S1: his robe, Jonathan's robe was not any just normal robe.
S1: It represented his royalty and his power that he was
S1: next to the throne. And by Jonathan giving off his robe,
S1: it was representing that he was submitting himself under David,
S1: who is to be king. Furthermore, when it says that
S1: that their love was more wonderful than that of women,
S1: that they express love for one another. When we equate
S1: love with sex or sex with love, we are really
S1: revealing how much the sexual revolution has impacted our understanding.
S1: Love does not equal sex, that there is so much
S1: more outside of our understanding of simply that that love
S1: is only to be found in romance. Marriage does not
S1: have a monopoly on love. As a matter of fact,
S1: it was very common that people in power will express
S1: their love for one another. As a matter of fact,
S1: in First Kings chapter five, the King of Hyrum said
S1: it was talked about him that he always loved David.
S1: So people in power, they often would express their love
S1: for one another. That doesn't mean it was sexual, doesn't
S1: mean that was romantic. So things like that. I think
S1: we're very important for me to include in the video
S1: series to help our kids to see that they're myths
S1: when it comes to homosexuality, and that if we just
S1: use proper interpretation using literary context, historical context, and canonical context,
S1: that will guide us in God's truth.
S4: Yeah, yeah, we know that gender confusion is rampant today,
S4: and I'm assuming you talk about that also in. This series?
S1: Absolutely. As we are struggling to address this issue of homosexuality,
S1: I feel like homosexuality is just the Trojan horse that
S1: now brought into our culture transgenderism. So the biggest issue,
S1: I believe right now, one of the biggest issues that
S1: our youth are dealing with is this concept of gender.
S1: And now sex and gender. We used to use those synonymously. Unfortunately,
S1: the world has redefined things just as the world has
S1: redefined the marriage. The world has redefined the concept of
S1: gender and has split apart that sex and gender now
S1: mean two different things. Now, of course, we don't agree
S1: with that, but we need to recognize that even when
S1: we're talking, we need to be careful about the words
S1: that we use because they we might be using the
S1: word same terminology, but we're using a different dictionary. They
S1: have redefined things where now gender is not the same
S1: thing as sex, where sex is an objective binary classification
S1: of male and female. We are sexed beings. I actually
S1: prefer to say instead of saying that we're sexual beings,
S1: we're sexed. Why sexual has now been co-opted to just
S1: refer to like, oh, I need to have sex. Sexual
S1: gives the impression that is just referring to the act
S1: of sex. Sex can refer to the act of sex
S1: sexual intercourse, but it could also refer to being male
S1: or female. Different definitions. So we are sexed beings. We
S1: are male and female. And that helps us understand that
S1: this is something that God created us, male and female.
S1: Genesis one verse 27. It says, God created them male
S1: and female. This is part of God's creation that is
S1: inherent to who we are. Just as we are creating
S1: God's image were created male and female, but gender now
S1: has become this new modern definition that's referring to how
S1: we feel that it's now this subjective reality of our
S1: self perception. And our self perception should not be who
S1: you are. Adult. Yes, it's a reality. The fall where
S1: people do struggle, maybe with their self perception, not align
S1: with their sex. And we have to be really, really
S1: clear that that's just the reality of the fall. We
S1: should have compassion for them. We should minister to them
S1: but encourage them. Do not make this who you are.
S1: The world is giving something quite different. The world is
S1: telling you if you feel something, it's who you are.
S1: If you think something, that's your truth. But God is
S1: saying something quite different. The heart is deceitful above all else.
S1: Who can know it? So I need to submit my thoughts,
S1: my feelings, my my desires to Christ Himself and so
S1: very much. I definitely address this issue of gender confusion
S1: in this video series, to help parents and teens to
S1: have a Christ focus on who we are in Christ.
S4: Christopher, as we come to the end of our time together,
S4: let me ask you one other question. Talk to the
S4: parent whose son or daughter just came out, went home
S4: and told the parents, you know, how do you engage
S4: with that teenager or that young adult when a parent
S4: hears that information?
S1: Well, I've walked with countless parents. I have this huge
S1: blessing of being able to minister with my mom and
S1: dad and now just with my mom. But our ministry
S1: is so unique in that we get many, many parents
S1: who come to us. They seek answers, and essentially what
S1: we do is not point them to us. I don't
S1: have the answer. I really can encourage them, but Jesus does.
S1: You know, if you're listening right now and maybe you're
S1: that parent. You have that daughter, that son who has
S1: now told you that they are. They're identifying as transgendered,
S1: or they are identifying as gay or lesbian or bisexual
S1: or whatever, the whole gamut of spectrum, non-binary, pansexual. It
S1: is so difficult and there's such a grieving and pain
S1: going on right now. But I want you to remember
S1: because many times parents who get this news, they begin
S1: blaming themselves, you know, what did I do wrong? You know,
S1: if only I would have done this, or if only
S1: I would have done that. And some of that is
S1: kind of built on how we have diagnosed this incorrectly,
S1: that we think that that somehow it's rooted in things
S1: that happened in our childhood, whether it's an absentee father
S1: and a mother or trauma. Now, those things definitely influence us.
S1: But influence is not the cause. So we need to
S1: see that actually, that really the ultimate root cause is
S1: sin nature. And if that's you as a parent, please
S1: hear me. It's not your fault. Our kids biggest issue
S1: isn't that they are in a same sex relationship, or
S1: they're identifying with the wrong sex, male or female. That's
S1: a secondary issue. The biggest problem comes back to what
S1: I mentioned in lesson one of this video series. The
S1: biggest issue for our children is that they would know
S1: and follow Jesus, deny yourself, take up your cross, and
S1: follow Jesus. And so that gets to what is our
S1: goal to engage with them? Do we always accommodate in
S1: every situation? Well, that's grace at the expense of truth.
S1: We need to be full of grace, full of truth.
S1: We need to be like Jesus. We love our kids,
S1: but we love them to Christ. And that sometimes might
S1: involve having those discussions with our kids that is grounded
S1: in truth. Because love rejoices in truth. We sometimes have
S1: falsely dichotomies love with truth we can't. There is no
S1: love apart from truth. Now, we're not going to continually
S1: kind of hit them over the head or continually focus
S1: on that. But we need to be not just grace
S1: at the expense of truth. Of course not truth at
S1: the expense of grace, but to be full of grace
S1: and full of truth. Because here's what's so important, even
S1: with my own testimony, that, you know, many of you
S1: might not have heard a testimony like mine before, a
S1: man who used to identify as gay and now no
S1: longer do. And that really is an important aspect. But
S1: that's not how I best summarize my testimony. This is
S1: my testimony. I once was blind and now I see
S1: I once was lost and now I'm found. I once
S1: did not believe, and now I believe in the Son
S1: of God, and his name is Jesus. That's my testimony.
S5: Yeah.
S4: Well, that's a good place to bring our conversation to
S4: an end today. Christopher, your book and now this video project,
S4: I think God wants to use this in our culture today.
S4: And I want to thank you for investing time and
S4: energy in putting all of this together. And I hope
S4: our listeners will reach out and utilize this, because I
S4: think we all recognize as parents the need for help
S4: in this area with our children. And this has helped
S4: that I think many will find really, really useful. So
S4: thanks again for being with us today and thanks for
S4: putting this material together.
S1: Thanks so much, Dr. Chapman, for having me on.
S3: What a great hour with Dr. Christopher Yuan. And if
S3: you want to find out more about the Holy Sexuality Project,
S3: the video series, go to Holy sexuality.com. Or you can
S3: find a link at our website.
S4: Building relationships.us and next week, what are the five traits
S4: of a healthy family?
S2: Dr. Chapman will help you grow closer, communicate better, and
S2: change the world. Don't miss it. Before we go, a
S2: big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice.
S2: Backing building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is the production
S2: of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry
S2: of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.