WEBVTT - Hour 2: Live from Eden Prairie, MN 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.920 Hello, friends. Welcome to Open Line with Doctor Michael Clinic. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.160 My name is Michael Redlick. I'm the academic dean and 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.120 professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:23.040 Thanks for joining me at the kitchen table for our 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.840 Bible study across America. You know, normally you talk with 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.120 me and ask your questions about the Bible, God and 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:34.200 the spiritual life. But today's program is prerecorded, so please, 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.840 please don't call today. You can learn more about Open Line. 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.440 You can hear past programs and connect to our social 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.040 media pages and find all sorts of stuff you're looking for, 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.560 as well as post your question about the Bible at 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:52.320 our website. Online radio.org. That's open line radio. Org. It's 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.000 time to get yourself a cup of coffee and grab 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:59.120 your Bible for a very special open line. In 2023, 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.260 open line went on the road to Eden Prairie, Minnesota, 0:01:02.300 --> 0:01:04.860 a suburb of Minneapolis, as part of a Chosen People 0:01:04.860 --> 0:01:09.740 Ministries conference called Finding Shalom Peace in a Troubled World. 0:01:10.060 --> 0:01:13.420 We broadcast live from that conference. We took questions from 0:01:13.420 --> 0:01:16.900 the audience and talked with a few friends about Jewish ministry. 0:01:17.260 --> 0:01:20.140 Before we get back to those questions. I want to 0:01:20.140 --> 0:01:22.980 let you know about our current resource. Do you ever 0:01:22.980 --> 0:01:25.980 feel overwhelmed trying to understand how all the books of 0:01:25.980 --> 0:01:28.900 the New Testament fit together? Well, that's why we want 0:01:28.900 --> 0:01:30.780 to send you a copy of survey of the New 0:01:30.780 --> 0:01:34.300 Testament by Paul Benware. It's a comprehensive guide that will 0:01:34.300 --> 0:01:37.100 take us on a journey from Matthew to Revelation. It 0:01:37.100 --> 0:01:40.260 will help us grasp the grand narrative of God's Word. 0:01:40.580 --> 0:01:44.300 We'll discover how each book connects to tell one magnificent 0:01:44.300 --> 0:01:47.100 story of God's redemptive plan. And you can get a 0:01:47.100 --> 0:01:49.220 copy of survey of the New Testament when you give 0:01:49.220 --> 0:01:52.860 a gift of any size to open line. Just visit 0:01:52.860 --> 0:02:00.880 our website openlibrary.org or call 447122 before we head back 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.680 to Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. I want to 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.520 remind you that we air this program in May of 2023, 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:12.000 five months before Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th. My 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.600 friend Robin will be talking about the ministry she does 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.359 in Israel, and she still ministers among Israelis, and it's 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.800 been going on since then. What she tells me now 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.400 is that people are more spiritually open than ever before. 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.800 I met Robin when she was a college student, and 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.400 I was leading a congregation in New York, and I 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:36.360 began by asking Robin where she lives and what she does. So, Robin, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.799 where do you live and and what do you do? 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.800 I live in Tel Aviv, Israel, and I am the 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.120 branch leader for an amazing staff team of Chosen People 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:47.520 ministries in Israel. 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:49.520 Yeah. Yeah. And how did we meet? 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:55.359 Um, we met because my mother, who was not a believer, 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.929 called you and said, my daughter is in so much trouble. 0:02:58.930 --> 0:03:01.169 I'd like you to come and talk to her about Jesus. 0:03:02.290 --> 0:03:06.169 So Robin was a college student in Boston, came home 0:03:06.169 --> 0:03:08.810 for Thanksgiving, and I went to see her on the 0:03:08.810 --> 0:03:13.329 Wednesday before Thanksgiving. I just her mom had been attending 0:03:13.330 --> 0:03:15.850 our congregation but had not yet made, and I think 0:03:16.370 --> 0:03:17.970 we're still waiting for her to make a decision. 0:03:17.970 --> 0:03:18.850 A couple of years she did. 0:03:18.889 --> 0:03:21.170 Oh, she did. I didn't realize. Oh that's great. So, anyway, 0:03:21.210 --> 0:03:24.850 her mom, uh, asked me to come talk with Robin, 0:03:24.850 --> 0:03:27.490 and afterwards I went home after. I guess it was 0:03:27.490 --> 0:03:28.130 about two hours. 0:03:28.169 --> 0:03:30.450 We talked for probably a while. 0:03:30.490 --> 0:03:33.850 Yeah, it was a good while. I said, I have 0:03:33.850 --> 0:03:36.930 never I said to my wife, I have never met 0:03:36.970 --> 0:03:43.290 a more hostile young person ever in my whole life. 0:03:43.570 --> 0:03:48.210 She was the most hostile person I've ever engaged about 0:03:48.210 --> 0:03:52.330 faith and about the good news of Yeshua. And of course, 0:03:53.050 --> 0:03:53.970 what happened. 0:03:55.390 --> 0:03:59.630 A member of your congregation, Tony. She was a good 0:03:59.630 --> 0:04:02.150 friend of my mother's in high school, and they had reconnected. 0:04:02.150 --> 0:04:05.510 That's how my mother came in contact with you. She 0:04:05.510 --> 0:04:09.630 would come over just about every day, and she would 0:04:09.670 --> 0:04:14.190 either say to me, the Bible says, or Michael says, 0:04:14.830 --> 0:04:17.670 but whatever Michael said was in the Bible, too. Yeah. 0:04:18.390 --> 0:04:21.270 And so she talked with you. You were you were 0:04:21.270 --> 0:04:22.349 home for a while. 0:04:22.390 --> 0:04:24.309 I was home because I was sick. I had become 0:04:24.310 --> 0:04:26.830 very sick when I was in school, and I had 0:04:26.830 --> 0:04:29.589 to move home. And every day she would tell me, 0:04:29.630 --> 0:04:31.350 come to church, we'll pray for you and God will 0:04:31.350 --> 0:04:32.990 heal you. But also I want to talk to you 0:04:32.990 --> 0:04:34.030 about the Messiah. 0:04:35.910 --> 0:04:37.990 How long did it take for for her to get 0:04:37.990 --> 0:04:38.669 through to you? 0:04:39.430 --> 0:04:42.070 I think it was about 9 or 10 months of 0:04:42.070 --> 0:04:44.830 her almost every day coming over. She'd share a prophecy. 0:04:44.830 --> 0:04:46.870 I wouldn't let her share New Testament. She'd share a 0:04:46.870 --> 0:04:50.109 prophecy of the Messiah. I would get hostile with her, 0:04:50.390 --> 0:04:52.830 and she would just laugh and say, okay, you've had 0:04:52.830 --> 0:04:55.210 enough for today. Bye bye. I'll see you tomorrow. 0:04:56.290 --> 0:05:01.050 Yeah, that does sound exactly like Tony. Yeah. So. Okay, 0:05:01.089 --> 0:05:04.490 so I know what happened to me is, I think 0:05:04.490 --> 0:05:08.609 the first time I was leading a Passover seder and 0:05:08.610 --> 0:05:11.890 Tony brought you. Yeah. And and I looked and I thought, 0:05:11.930 --> 0:05:14.849 is that the same girl? And she had never told 0:05:14.850 --> 0:05:16.650 me that she was going to see you or anything 0:05:16.650 --> 0:05:19.210 like that. And you had become a follower of Yeshua? 0:05:19.610 --> 0:05:22.370 Yeah. That was a funny Seder, because you kept interrupting 0:05:22.370 --> 0:05:25.330 yourself every 10 or 15 minutes and saying, no, everyone, 0:05:25.330 --> 0:05:29.530 you don't understand. She can become a believer. Anyone can 0:05:29.529 --> 0:05:30.730 become a believer. 0:05:32.690 --> 0:05:35.250 Yeah, that was pretty cool. So okay, so tell me 0:05:35.250 --> 0:05:38.530 about what you're doing in Israel. What kind of outreach 0:05:38.529 --> 0:05:40.370 are you doing to reach Jewish people? 0:05:40.410 --> 0:05:42.890 Well, we are in Israel. The way we reach Jewish 0:05:42.890 --> 0:05:46.529 people is so diverse. Um, but we're working a lot 0:05:46.570 --> 0:05:50.570 through ministry centers that are like community centers with a 0:05:50.570 --> 0:05:52.990 faith base. So we're able to create a create a 0:05:52.990 --> 0:05:56.150 space that believers can come and be discipled, but they 0:05:56.150 --> 0:05:59.830 can also at music events or cultural events, invite their 0:05:59.830 --> 0:06:03.750 non-believing friends, and it creates a really safe bridge to 0:06:03.750 --> 0:06:07.270 openly dialogue about faith and who the Messiah is. 0:06:08.310 --> 0:06:11.790 I think that that's one of the best ways. Safe 0:06:11.790 --> 0:06:14.550 place a cup of coffee. It's a great place to talk, 0:06:14.710 --> 0:06:17.110 but how do you meet Jewish people when you're not 0:06:17.110 --> 0:06:18.589 in Israel? Do you go other places? 0:06:18.790 --> 0:06:22.789 Oh, yes. So all Israelis serve in the army, and 0:06:22.790 --> 0:06:25.470 then it's tradition to go travel the world. And they 0:06:25.470 --> 0:06:30.030 don't just go anywhere, but they generally go on specific waves. 0:06:30.070 --> 0:06:32.070 They follow a path. So I can tell you where 0:06:32.070 --> 0:06:35.950 to find 10,000 Israelis, a place in India eating hummus 0:06:35.950 --> 0:06:40.549 instead of tikka masala. And we go, we bring teams 0:06:40.550 --> 0:06:44.549 and we backpack alongside them, building relationships, breaking bread together, 0:06:44.550 --> 0:06:48.430 sharing the gospel. But we also chosen people ministries, has 0:06:48.430 --> 0:06:51.920 hostels in some strategic places that the that the Israelis 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.800 love to go and it's free for three days to 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:56.719 show God's love in a practical way. 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.240 And then you have young people come with you and 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.400 join these, uh, treks that you take with them and meet, 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:05.400 meet Israelis, write. 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:06.560 Many of your students. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:06.800 And. 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:08.360 Even your own son. 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.600 Yeah, yeah. Who was a student of mine? He had 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.720 just graduated from Moody at the time. But also we 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:17.520 have students that leave Moody Bible Institute for their, uh, 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.840 Jewish ministry internship, and they go off. I trust Robin 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.920 with them. I don't know why, but I do. Uh, 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:28.160 and they they go off to places like New Zealand and, uh, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.960 to South America and to India and all sorts of 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:36.720 places where Jewish, uh, Israelis, young Israelis, after the army, 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:41.240 they're off trekking to find meaning, to find significance. And 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.640 we hope to find Yeshua. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.080 And three of your students this summer are coming to 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.960 our team in Israel to serve alongside all our staff 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:50.420 stuff there. 0:07:50.460 --> 0:07:54.540 Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh. Students will say to me, is 0:07:54.540 --> 0:07:57.740 this a good internship? Well, Robin's a problem, but. 0:07:57.780 --> 0:07:58.460 You should go. 0:07:59.340 --> 0:08:03.179 No, I tell them all. Robin is an honorary moody grad, 0:08:03.220 --> 0:08:06.780 is what it is. She really is not a moody grad, 0:08:06.820 --> 0:08:10.620 but she has come so often for our fall missions conference, 0:08:10.620 --> 0:08:13.500 which is becoming a winter missions conference next year. Uh, 0:08:13.500 --> 0:08:17.660 but she has come so many times to our missions conference, uh, 0:08:17.660 --> 0:08:20.260 and comes when she's in Chicago and meets with our 0:08:20.260 --> 0:08:24.500 students and encourages them that last year, at the 100th 0:08:24.500 --> 0:08:27.860 anniversary celebration for Jewish Studies, we made you an honorary 0:08:27.860 --> 0:08:30.900 graduate of Moody. So there we go. Now, now we have. 0:08:30.940 --> 0:08:31.580 I love that. 0:08:31.580 --> 0:08:33.700 Now we have to get you that honorary doctorate. 0:08:33.740 --> 0:08:34.140 So. 0:08:34.580 --> 0:08:37.420 We can call you Doctor Robin. So there we go. Uh, 0:08:37.540 --> 0:08:41.380 I don't know if that'll happen, but we'll try. So anyway, 0:08:41.420 --> 0:08:44.300 I am I'm really grateful for the ministry that Robin 0:08:44.300 --> 0:08:46.260 has with Chosen People Ministries. We're going to take a 0:08:46.260 --> 0:08:48.420 couple of questions here, but thank you, Robin. 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.360 Hi, my name is Mike. I'm from Austin, Minnesota. And 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.880 I'd appreciate getting your perspective on the relationship between Israel 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:57.760 and the church. 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:04.200 Ah, well, uh. God, uh, founded the beginning. The beginnings 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:11.040 of Israel is the call of Abraham. Isaac. Jacob. Right. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:16.480 then Israel, of course, continues to exist. However, it's fairly 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.080 clear that by the first century, the church did not 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:25.600 yet exist because the Lord Jesus, when after Peter gives 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.920 his great confession, the Lord Jesus responds in Matthew 16, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.120 I will build my church. Which means that the church 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.800 is not there yet hadn't been built. Uh, another aspect is, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.880 of course, when does the church begin? It seems to 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.760 begin at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit falls and everyone's 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:47.900 speaking those other languages. Do you Do you remember that 0:09:47.900 --> 0:09:51.380 story in acts two? And what I think is really 0:09:51.420 --> 0:09:54.580 kind of interesting about that is later on, Peter has 0:09:54.580 --> 0:10:01.459 to go preach to Cornelius, and when he speaks to Cornelius, Cornelius, uh, 0:10:01.460 --> 0:10:06.380 while he's speaking, the Holy Spirit falls on Cornelius. And 0:10:06.540 --> 0:10:10.820 those listening, they all believe. And then Peter, you know, decides, well, 0:10:10.940 --> 0:10:13.579 I guess we don't have to convert them to Judaism 0:10:13.580 --> 0:10:17.059 before they believe in Jesus. Everything's good, but he has 0:10:17.059 --> 0:10:21.819 to go and report this, uh, to the leadership. And 0:10:22.940 --> 0:10:25.780 he tells the story of what happened in acts 11. 0:10:25.780 --> 0:10:29.700 And he says, as I began to speak, this is 1115. Uh, 0:10:29.700 --> 0:10:32.260 acts 1115. As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit 0:10:32.260 --> 0:10:37.860 came down on them, just as on us at the beginning. Yeah, 0:10:38.100 --> 0:10:42.300 the beginning of what? The beginning of the church. So, uh, 0:10:42.300 --> 0:10:45.990 there's Israel. There's the church. Israel are the Are the 0:10:45.990 --> 0:10:50.790 descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The church is anyone, 0:10:50.790 --> 0:10:54.510 Jew or Gentile, who have put their faith in Jesus 0:10:54.510 --> 0:10:59.750 and the place where, uh, they overlap. Uh, if you 0:10:59.790 --> 0:11:05.790 can see two circles overlapping each other. Uh, one circle 0:11:05.790 --> 0:11:10.390 would be Israel. The other circle would be the church. 0:11:10.390 --> 0:11:12.350 But where they the I guess you would call that 0:11:12.350 --> 0:11:16.910 a concentric, uh, where they reach over the Jewish, where 0:11:16.950 --> 0:11:20.790 Israel reaches over into the church as the Jewish believer, 0:11:21.230 --> 0:11:23.150 and at the same time, the Jewish believer is the 0:11:23.150 --> 0:11:28.190 faithful remnant of Israel. So that's, that's the, the, the 0:11:28.190 --> 0:11:31.110 overlap of it. But there is a distinct plan that 0:11:31.110 --> 0:11:34.510 God has for the church. I believe will be complete 0:11:34.510 --> 0:11:37.590 when the Lord Jesus raptures the church. Then there's a 0:11:37.590 --> 0:11:41.309 seven year, uh, plan that God has to bring Israel 0:11:41.350 --> 0:11:44.309 to repentance, and then Israel will come to faith. And 0:11:44.309 --> 0:11:46.490 God has a is a special plan for Israel when 0:11:46.490 --> 0:11:50.090 he returns and establishes the kingdom over them and the world. 0:11:50.130 --> 0:11:50.570 That's great. 0:11:50.570 --> 0:11:52.689 Thank you. Mhm. We're going to take a break here 0:11:52.690 --> 0:11:55.090 when we come back. Uh, we're going to have time 0:11:55.090 --> 0:11:59.170 for more questions. This is open line with Michael. My guest. 0:11:59.170 --> 0:12:02.290 This segment was Robin from Israel. So glad that you're 0:12:02.290 --> 0:12:04.730 here Robin. And we're going to come right back with 0:12:04.730 --> 0:12:07.370 more of your questions in just a moment. You're listening 0:12:07.410 --> 0:12:11.210 to the Finding Shalom conference on Open Line right here 0:12:11.210 --> 0:12:14.290 in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. Stay right there. We're coming back. 0:12:27.410 --> 0:12:30.490 Welcome back to Open Line with me, Michael Ray Melnick. 0:12:30.530 --> 0:12:34.450 Today's program is prerecorded. So remember don't call. We're listening 0:12:34.490 --> 0:12:37.250 to a rebroadcast of a special on the road edition 0:12:37.250 --> 0:12:40.090 of Open Line from 2023. We were part of a 0:12:40.130 --> 0:12:44.550 Chosen People Ministries conference called Finding Shalom Peace in the 0:12:44.550 --> 0:12:46.750 Troubled World and it was held at Wooddale Church in 0:12:46.750 --> 0:12:49.870 Eden Prairie, Minnesota, in front of a live audience. And 0:12:49.870 --> 0:12:51.750 they asked the questions. 0:12:53.150 --> 0:12:57.310 Hello, I'm Gwen. I'm originally from Richfield Springs, New York. Oh, really? 0:12:57.429 --> 0:13:00.190 A recent transplant to Aberdeen, South Dakota. Wow. With my 0:13:00.190 --> 0:13:01.390 husband and three teens. 0:13:01.429 --> 0:13:04.390 New York to South Dakota. That's a that's a cultural change. 0:13:04.510 --> 0:13:07.910 Yeah, yeah. A bit. So this is my question. Um, 0:13:07.910 --> 0:13:11.709 in first Corinthians five seven through eight, it says, for 0:13:11.750 --> 0:13:16.350 indeed Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let 0:13:16.350 --> 0:13:19.110 us keep the feast not with old leaven, nor with 0:13:19.110 --> 0:13:21.910 the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened 0:13:21.910 --> 0:13:25.630 bread of sincerity and truth. So my question is, as 0:13:25.670 --> 0:13:28.990 a Gentile believer, and having only been celebrating the feast 0:13:28.990 --> 0:13:31.070 of the Lord with my husband and children for the 0:13:31.070 --> 0:13:34.910 past eight years, I wonder how this verse is overlooked 0:13:35.110 --> 0:13:38.190 and why the church in general treats those who do 0:13:38.190 --> 0:13:41.470 observe the feasts as oddities in the church. 0:13:43.850 --> 0:13:52.929 Well. I think that there's a very long tradition of 0:13:53.050 --> 0:13:59.930 anything Jewish having a negative perspective in the church. Uh, 0:14:00.490 --> 0:14:05.050 we're not we're not talking something recent. We're talking thousands, 0:14:05.050 --> 0:14:08.250 2000 years now, very early on. By the time you 0:14:08.250 --> 0:14:12.730 get to the second century, you can see there's a hostility, 0:14:12.770 --> 0:14:17.850 a growing hostility to anything, any Jewish practice, anything that 0:14:17.850 --> 0:14:23.010 has Jewish roots in the church. Uh, by the time 0:14:23.010 --> 0:14:27.690 you you get to the fourth century, the resurrection day 0:14:27.690 --> 0:14:31.890 was changed in terms of what day? Resurrection. Previously, the 0:14:31.890 --> 0:14:36.050 church always celebrated the resurrection as part of Passover. In fact, 0:14:36.050 --> 0:14:39.890 the old word for Easter is Pascha. In Italy, in 0:14:39.890 --> 0:14:45.910 places like that pass over Constantine the Great when he 0:14:45.910 --> 0:14:50.190 called the Nicene Council the Council of Nicaea. He was there, 0:14:50.350 --> 0:14:54.230 and he called for the change of celebration of Passover 0:14:55.230 --> 0:15:00.510 to of of the of resurrection from Passover to a 0:15:00.510 --> 0:15:04.990 more of a pagan date. And he did that to, uh, 0:15:05.630 --> 0:15:09.390 remove the church from the odious company of the Jews 0:15:09.430 --> 0:15:13.390 is what the the documents say. So there was a 0:15:13.430 --> 0:15:18.870 growing antisemitism in the church and a disregard for the 0:15:19.190 --> 0:15:26.150 older brother, uh, disdain for the Jewish roots of the faith. Uh, 0:15:26.510 --> 0:15:32.070 people misunderstood that, uh, there was, you know what? What 0:15:32.590 --> 0:15:38.230 in the New Testament, there's this issue. Should Gentiles be 0:15:38.590 --> 0:15:42.600 converted to Converted to Judaism and circumcised before they could 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:46.200 believe in Jesus. Obviously, that wasn't right. Uh, but really, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.240 the great proponents of that were more of the Gentiles 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:54.160 who ultimately it was Gentiles who went ahead and did that, 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.040 and they then pushed that. So you would think that 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.760 it would have been a recognized thing, that it was 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.440 not Jewish believers pushing that idea because Paul, James, they 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.080 were the ones that said, no, you don't have to. Uh, 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.800 but it was Gentiles who had gone through with that 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.800 circumcision that were the great advocates. That's why in the 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.880 book of revelation, it calls these gentiles, uh, who say 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:21.320 they are Jews, but they are not. So, uh, and 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.360 they're not because they're, they're Gentiles who have adopted this. Uh, 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.440 so the point is, I think there's a long history 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.640 of that. Uh, one of the things I will tell 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:36.120 you is that there is a growing appreciation for the 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:42.300 Jewish People. And for festivals like Passover. I can't tell 0:16:42.300 --> 0:16:46.540 you how many churches I've gone to. To explain the Passover, 0:16:46.540 --> 0:16:48.900 I think that the feast that Paul is talking about 0:16:48.940 --> 0:16:51.740 may not necessarily be Passover. He may be talking about 0:16:51.740 --> 0:16:56.340 the Lord's Supper here in. And more broadly speaking, about 0:16:56.340 --> 0:16:59.100 our walk with the Lord. The celebrate the feast. And 0:16:59.100 --> 0:17:01.660 we get rid of the the leaven of malice and wickedness. 0:17:01.660 --> 0:17:04.860 But it could be just the the Lord's Supper celebration 0:17:04.859 --> 0:17:07.340 that he was talking about there in Corinth, because they 0:17:07.340 --> 0:17:10.659 were abusing it. We know that from first Corinthians 11. Uh, 0:17:10.660 --> 0:17:14.980 and he tells them that they have to, uh, really 0:17:14.980 --> 0:17:17.780 present themselves to the Lord first and take the Lord's 0:17:17.780 --> 0:17:21.060 Supper worthily. So that may be what he's talking about. 0:17:21.060 --> 0:17:23.180 But it does seem to me that it's really important 0:17:23.180 --> 0:17:27.020 that we recognize that the Lord's Supper communion draws right 0:17:27.020 --> 0:17:30.540 out of Passover. Um, so I agree with you that 0:17:30.540 --> 0:17:35.939 there's some pushback because there are other people trying to say, hey, 0:17:36.260 --> 0:17:40.440 you need to do this. And of course, that gets everyone. 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.280 No one's saying you need to do it. But if 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:49.880 you find keeping Passover, uh, and enjoyable and meaningful and, uh, 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.639 significant aspect of your walk, as long as you're not 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:57.080 imposing it on others. Have at it. Enjoy. Okay. 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:58.119 Yeah, yeah. Thank you. 0:17:59.359 --> 0:17:59.760 Okay. 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.640 Good morning. My name is Sheila. I'm from Bismarck, North Dakota, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.840 and I have a question in regards to our conversations 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:13.400 with those who are Holocaust survivors. Um, what can you 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.720 say to a Holocaust survivor to show them that those 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.520 who persecuted them weren't after the heart of Yeshua? 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:25.840 They weren't following what the Lord would want them to do. Yeah. Well, 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:30.560 let me just say there's a lot in that question. Uh, 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:35.780 my dad and mom are both Holocaust survivors. Wow. My 0:18:35.780 --> 0:18:40.820 dad thought that every SS guard that he knew in 0:18:40.820 --> 0:18:49.300 concentration camp, every German that he met was, you know, 0:18:49.340 --> 0:18:55.899 after the war, uh, was a Christian. And so he 0:18:55.900 --> 0:19:00.380 equated Nazism and murder. They actually the Nazis actually murdered 0:19:00.380 --> 0:19:05.459 his first wife, five children, his parents, his siblings, uh, 0:19:05.980 --> 0:19:07.100 his grandparents. 0:19:07.220 --> 0:19:07.860 Horrific. 0:19:07.900 --> 0:19:12.580 Uh, and that was done in his mind by followers 0:19:12.580 --> 0:19:13.340 of Jesus. 0:19:14.020 --> 0:19:14.460 Mhm. 0:19:14.740 --> 0:19:20.460 Uh, so it's very hard to break that view. And 0:19:20.700 --> 0:19:27.540 rightly so, because, uh, the Nazis, who were certainly not Christian. 0:19:27.700 --> 0:19:28.180 Right. 0:19:28.460 --> 0:19:33.100 Uh, they were not reflecting the heart of Yeshua at all. Uh, 0:19:33.100 --> 0:19:38.470 but they used the history of German anti-Semitism in the church, 0:19:38.510 --> 0:19:41.670 going back to Martin Luther and even earlier, the whole 0:19:41.670 --> 0:19:46.950 history of, of of Christian anti-Semitism. And they preyed upon 0:19:46.950 --> 0:19:50.950 that and basically said, look, we're just agreeing with what 0:19:50.950 --> 0:19:54.270 the church has always said. And so in this way, though, 0:19:54.310 --> 0:19:56.149 they I think they would have gone after the church 0:19:56.190 --> 0:20:01.190 ultimately had they not failed. If you look at Alfred Rosenberg, 0:20:01.190 --> 0:20:07.230 who was the chief theoretician, theoretician of Nazism, it was anti-Christian. 0:20:07.230 --> 0:20:10.750 It was Anti-church. They wanted to remake the church, take 0:20:10.750 --> 0:20:13.990 the Bible out, put the put Mein Kampf in, take 0:20:13.990 --> 0:20:18.910 out the hymns, put in Nazi songs. Uh, they wanted 0:20:18.910 --> 0:20:23.150 to celebrate their new savior, Adolf Hitler. And that's what 0:20:23.150 --> 0:20:25.669 they wanted the church to do. It was going to 0:20:25.670 --> 0:20:28.550 be terrible. They were going to destroy the church, which 0:20:28.550 --> 0:20:34.810 is why Bonhoeffer, Niemöller and others stood against Nazism. However, uh, 0:20:35.490 --> 0:20:39.929 they they preyed upon the history of Christian anti-Semitism, used 0:20:39.930 --> 0:20:43.609 it as a means of gathering in Christians to participate 0:20:43.609 --> 0:20:48.169 in and support what the Nazis were doing. Uh, so 0:20:48.170 --> 0:20:50.369 how do you deal with that? I think what you 0:20:50.369 --> 0:20:55.690 have to do is expose people to the true Yeshua, 0:20:56.010 --> 0:20:58.850 not the image of Yeshua from. And it's hard to 0:20:58.890 --> 0:21:03.530 do but expose them to the true Yeshua as in 0:21:03.530 --> 0:21:06.490 the Gospels. I remember many years ago I was talking 0:21:06.490 --> 0:21:08.930 with a Jewish woman in a nursing home and she 0:21:08.930 --> 0:21:11.129 was no, no, no, she wasn't a survivor, but she 0:21:11.130 --> 0:21:14.570 was really hostile because of the history. And I, I 0:21:14.570 --> 0:21:16.330 read to her the very first verse of the New 0:21:16.330 --> 0:21:21.090 Testament in Yiddish, in the language, her first language. And 0:21:21.090 --> 0:21:23.170 I got out my Yiddish New Testament and I read 0:21:23.170 --> 0:21:25.609 her this, uh, verse where it says, this is the 0:21:25.609 --> 0:21:29.250 generations of Jesus, the Messiah, Yeshua the Messiah, the Son 0:21:29.250 --> 0:21:33.310 of David, the Son of Abraham. And, uh, she looked 0:21:33.310 --> 0:21:36.990 at me and she said, you mean he's Jewish? And 0:21:38.270 --> 0:21:41.070 that's when I got to talk with her. He's not 0:21:41.070 --> 0:21:44.790 the image that you have heard about. This is the 0:21:44.830 --> 0:21:48.550 true Yeshua, uh, the king of Israel, uh, who loves 0:21:48.550 --> 0:21:51.909 his people. And that's the thing I would do, is 0:21:51.910 --> 0:21:54.630 I would get them if I could try and point 0:21:54.630 --> 0:21:58.470 them back to the true Yeshua in the New Testament. Okay. 0:21:58.510 --> 0:21:59.430 Thank you very much. 0:21:59.510 --> 0:21:59.950 Mhm. 0:22:00.670 --> 0:22:06.869 My name is Nancy from Bonita Springs, Florida. In John 20, 0:22:06.910 --> 0:22:10.710 verse seven. What is the significance of the napkin that 0:22:10.710 --> 0:22:13.470 was wrapped together in a place by itself? 0:22:13.830 --> 0:22:19.629 Okay. You've heard about this, huh? On the internet or someplace? Sermons. 0:22:21.030 --> 0:22:21.350 Have you. 0:22:21.350 --> 0:22:21.990 Heard? Once. 0:22:22.030 --> 0:22:22.510 Once. 0:22:22.590 --> 0:22:24.109 And I want to hear it from you. 0:22:24.150 --> 0:22:24.630 Okay. 0:22:26.550 --> 0:22:28.830 Well, what's been flying around the internet for a number 0:22:28.830 --> 0:22:34.850 of years Is this idea that it says that in 0:22:35.250 --> 0:22:42.530 in Jewish culture, if you fold your napkin and you're eating, 0:22:42.690 --> 0:22:47.170 you fold a napkin, and then it means you're done eating. 0:22:47.570 --> 0:22:50.850 But if you don't fold it, if it's all messed up, 0:22:52.010 --> 0:22:53.770 I'm sorry. When you fold it, you're done and you're 0:22:53.770 --> 0:22:57.649 coming back. Uh, and so that was the significance of 0:22:57.650 --> 0:23:00.810 the folded napkin. That is one of the most ludicrous 0:23:00.810 --> 0:23:05.450 things I have ever heard. Because we're not talking about 0:23:05.450 --> 0:23:11.370 a meal here. It's a face cloth for a dead body. 0:23:11.650 --> 0:23:15.970 It's not the King James uses the word napkin. My version, 0:23:15.970 --> 0:23:19.210 which is a modern version, says the wrapping that had 0:23:19.210 --> 0:23:22.530 been on his head was not lying with the linen cloths, 0:23:22.530 --> 0:23:25.449 but folded up in a separate place. It has nothing 0:23:25.490 --> 0:23:29.350 to do with food. There is no Jewish cultural background 0:23:29.390 --> 0:23:31.990 as such, that says that the folded napkin means that 0:23:31.990 --> 0:23:34.669 you want more or don't want more, or that you're 0:23:34.670 --> 0:23:39.790 coming back or whatever it is that they said it is. No, no, no, no. 0:23:39.790 --> 0:23:45.830 It is unrelated. And unfortunately, the internet can promote good things, 0:23:45.830 --> 0:23:49.430 but it also promotes lots of stupid ideas. And the 0:23:49.430 --> 0:23:54.429 thing is, don't trust it. Check it out. Uh, the 0:23:54.430 --> 0:23:56.909 significance of that linen napkin is that there were no 0:23:56.910 --> 0:24:02.910 grave robbers. Grave robbers? Robbers. If you go in and 0:24:02.910 --> 0:24:06.590 someone has stolen the body, you're not going to find 0:24:06.630 --> 0:24:10.510 the face cloth folded up neatly. Right? 0:24:10.790 --> 0:24:11.190 Right. 0:24:11.310 --> 0:24:14.230 You'll find everything jumbled aside. I had my house broken 0:24:14.230 --> 0:24:17.310 in two, uh, a few years ago when I was 0:24:17.310 --> 0:24:20.310 in Israel. I came in, the drawers were open, clothing 0:24:20.310 --> 0:24:22.429 was all out on the floors. It was. It's all 0:24:22.430 --> 0:24:25.669 jumbled up because they're looking right. If you have a 0:24:25.670 --> 0:24:30.960 grave robber. Come in. What are they doing? They're pulling everything. 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:34.840 They're taking the body out. Uh, it wouldn't be folded up, 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.960 so it's saying something different happened. This wasn't grave robbers. 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:42.679 And then, of course, they see the Lord Jesus. They 0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:43.920 know he's resurrected. 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:45.200 So great. Thank you so. 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:45.360 Much. 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:48.320 That's the significance. So, everyone, just let me just assure 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:51.879 you there's a lot of junk on the internet. And 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:54.280 I have to say, I'm not going to give you 0:24:54.280 --> 0:25:00.480 other examples of it, but unfortunately, sometimes people will let 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:04.000 that get into their Bible studies or sermons, and then 0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:06.600 it gets into a, you know, to the people. So 0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:10.760 just let's be cautious when we use alleged Jewish backgrounds. 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:14.600 I always say, where did you get that background? Sometimes 0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:17.679 they'll even I heard one preacher use a background about 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:21.720 Jewish people, uh, giving their kids candy or sweets as 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.320 they learned the alphabet, the Hebrew alphabet, as they learned 0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:28.139 how to read. Because you're supposed to learn that learning 0:25:28.140 --> 0:25:31.740 the Torah is sweet. Yeah, that's a great Jewish background 0:25:31.740 --> 0:25:36.940 from the 17th century. Has nothing to do with the 0:25:36.940 --> 0:25:39.820 New Testament or how Yeshua was raised. We're going to 0:25:39.820 --> 0:25:43.340 come back with more of your excellent questions. Stay right there. 0:25:43.580 --> 0:25:57.620 You're listening to Open Line with Michael Ellman. We're so 0:25:57.619 --> 0:26:00.939 glad that Febc partners with Open Line with Doctor Michael 0:26:00.940 --> 0:26:05.180 Ray Melnick, bringing the Febc mailbag every week. Learn how 0:26:05.220 --> 0:26:08.540 Far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to the world 0:26:08.619 --> 0:26:12.580 at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until all I've 0:26:12.580 --> 0:26:15.780 heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives changed 0:26:15.780 --> 0:26:19.300 by Messiah all across the globe. Again, you can hear 0:26:19.300 --> 0:26:39.240 the podcast when you visit febc. That's febc. Welcome back 0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:42.760 to Open Line. My name is Michael Melnick. Today's program 0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:45.960 is prerecorded, so don't call us today, but you can 0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:50.040 learn more about us by going to our website. Openlibrary.org 0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:52.840 has all the links you're looking for right there. But 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:55.320 sit back now and enjoy a program that we did 0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:58.880 in front of a live audience in May of 2023. 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:02.440 We traveled to Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. That's 0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:04.919 a suburb of Minneapolis, and we were part of a 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:09.680 Chosen People Ministries conference. Now, Wooddale church has a long 0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:12.920 and rich history of partnering with lots of Jewish ministry, 0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:16.399 of having a really deep concern for reaching Jewish people 0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:19.080 with the good news. And they happen to partner with 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:22.720 Chosen People Ministries to put on this conference. And I'm 0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:26.420 really grateful for partnerships like this. I recognize that they 0:27:26.420 --> 0:27:30.420 are vital to open line and we to have partners. 0:27:30.420 --> 0:27:33.460 We have kitchen table partners, people who commit to give 0:27:33.500 --> 0:27:36.859 monthly so I can be on the air weekly, answering, 0:27:36.980 --> 0:27:40.220 answering people's questions about the Bible, about God, and about 0:27:40.220 --> 0:27:44.020 the spiritual life. I'm so grateful for everyone that listens 0:27:44.020 --> 0:27:46.860 and everyone that gives a gift occasionally. But I'm especially 0:27:46.859 --> 0:27:50.340 grateful for Kitchen table partners because they're the ones that 0:27:50.340 --> 0:27:52.740 really help us the most. And one way I say 0:27:52.740 --> 0:27:55.020 thank you is every other week, I send an audio 0:27:55.020 --> 0:27:58.859 Bible study to people who become kitchen table partners. It's 0:27:58.859 --> 0:28:00.780 just a few minutes and you get it in your email. 0:28:00.780 --> 0:28:03.460 You click on it and get to listen. If you'd 0:28:03.460 --> 0:28:09.659 like to become a kitchen table partner, just call 888647122. 0:28:09.700 --> 0:28:14.980 That's (888) 644-7122. Or you can just go online to Open 0:28:14.980 --> 0:28:19.340 Line Radio and whatever you do. We're really grateful for 0:28:19.340 --> 0:28:23.310 all that you do. Whenever we broadcast from a church, 0:28:23.310 --> 0:28:26.350 I like to talk with the pastor who partners with us. 0:28:26.670 --> 0:28:29.830 The senior pastor of Wooddale Church at that time was 0:28:29.830 --> 0:28:33.790 pastor Dale Hummel, who has since retired. And I talked 0:28:33.790 --> 0:28:36.830 with him about his church ministry. And then I asked 0:28:36.830 --> 0:28:40.190 him about the reason for this partnership. I just have 0:28:40.190 --> 0:28:42.790 to ask you, why would you host a conference with 0:28:42.790 --> 0:28:46.230 Chosen People Ministries? I mean, what is it that I mean, 0:28:46.670 --> 0:28:48.470 that's not typical for most churches. 0:28:48.510 --> 0:28:48.790 Yeah. 0:28:48.830 --> 0:28:50.390 Part, you know, part of it's kind of a personal 0:28:50.390 --> 0:28:54.230 for me, Michael. My my dad, who I just actually buried. 0:28:54.510 --> 0:28:56.030 April 10th. He passed away. 0:28:56.070 --> 0:28:56.750 Oh. I'm sorry. 0:28:56.830 --> 0:29:02.110 Um, and he grew up in the Netherlands. And he. 0:29:02.110 --> 0:29:05.670 During the war, he was a boy, and, uh, his 0:29:05.670 --> 0:29:09.510 family hid Jews. Mhm. Um, and my dad has clear 0:29:09.510 --> 0:29:13.550 memory of being taken outside by the Nazis. He, his 0:29:13.550 --> 0:29:16.750 mom and dad, and then his four siblings and being 0:29:16.750 --> 0:29:20.030 lined up while they searched the home. Fortunately, in the 0:29:20.030 --> 0:29:22.450 two times that that happened, there were no Jews being 0:29:22.450 --> 0:29:24.890 hidden in the home. And so dad would tell me 0:29:24.890 --> 0:29:28.810 that story over and over again, especially as he got older, uh, 0:29:28.810 --> 0:29:31.970 kind of remembering those things. And that always resonated with 0:29:31.970 --> 0:29:36.050 my heart and, you know, wondering why that happened. Um, 0:29:36.090 --> 0:29:40.770 he had, uh, two uncles. There were brothers. And, uh, 0:29:40.770 --> 0:29:43.850 one of them, uh, was killed by the SS. He 0:29:43.850 --> 0:29:46.610 was an underground spy, and he was very close to 0:29:46.650 --> 0:29:49.450 my dad. My dad was close to him. And, uh, 0:29:49.450 --> 0:29:51.890 that was a painful memory for my dad. What's interesting 0:29:51.890 --> 0:29:55.730 is that the same man, his brother, uh, went the 0:29:55.730 --> 0:29:59.250 opposite direction and, uh, went in with the Nazis. 0:29:59.290 --> 0:29:59.730 Wow. 0:29:59.770 --> 0:30:01.770 And, uh, so I always thought that would be a 0:30:01.770 --> 0:30:04.890 great historical novel. How? You have two brothers, you know, 0:30:04.930 --> 0:30:08.130 one who works on the resistance and the other, uh, 0:30:08.290 --> 0:30:11.930 you know, was pro-Nazi. And, um, so that resonated a 0:30:11.930 --> 0:30:15.050 lot with me. And then when I went to seminary, actually, 0:30:15.050 --> 0:30:17.450 I had a professor who wrote a book called Legacy 0:30:17.450 --> 0:30:20.270 of Hatred by Christian David Rouse. Yes. David Rouse. 0:30:20.310 --> 0:30:22.270 Why Christians need published by Moody. Yep. 0:30:22.310 --> 0:30:25.670 Why Christians need to remember the Holocaust. And that book, uh, 0:30:25.790 --> 0:30:28.270 deeply affected me. And I thought to myself, you know, 0:30:28.590 --> 0:30:31.790 given my history for my family and what I learned 0:30:31.790 --> 0:30:34.510 in that course, uh, it's something we have to keep 0:30:34.870 --> 0:30:38.190 in front of us. And, um, you know, I look 0:30:38.230 --> 0:30:40.910 at the Jewish people and I think, you know, they 0:30:40.910 --> 0:30:43.270 brought us the Messiah. God used them to bring the Messiah. 0:30:43.270 --> 0:30:47.910 They preserved the word of God. And, um, they're like family, right? 0:30:47.950 --> 0:30:52.310 And so what can I do, uh, to minister back 0:30:52.350 --> 0:30:54.910 and to encourage and to bring the hope of the 0:30:54.950 --> 0:30:58.550 gospel to them. So, um, and some people have just 0:30:58.550 --> 0:31:00.670 been a great avenue for us to begin to partner 0:31:00.670 --> 0:31:03.190 with and, and make sure that that is a balance 0:31:03.190 --> 0:31:03.910 for our ministry. 0:31:03.950 --> 0:31:06.430 You know, that's the history of this church, at least 0:31:06.430 --> 0:31:09.830 in my experience. I when I became a professor at 0:31:09.830 --> 0:31:12.670 Moody back in the Dark ages, uh, actually, it wasn't 0:31:12.670 --> 0:31:15.070 that long ago. It was Lincoln was president then. But anyway, 0:31:15.070 --> 0:31:18.170 when I became a actually when I became a A professor. 0:31:20.090 --> 0:31:22.970 Leith Anderson was the pastor here, and he contacted me 0:31:22.970 --> 0:31:25.730 about maybe if I could recommend someone that had some 0:31:25.730 --> 0:31:29.530 experience in Jewish ministry and knowledge because the church was 0:31:29.530 --> 0:31:33.650 hoping to actually maybe put someone on staff. And so, yeah, 0:31:33.770 --> 0:31:38.010 I just I thought that was a remarkable thing for 0:31:38.010 --> 0:31:40.970 a church. That was a rare experience that I have had, 0:31:40.970 --> 0:31:43.530 that a church would even consider using a staff position. 0:31:43.570 --> 0:31:47.489 Yeah. To reach you has always been very kingdom oriented. And, um, 0:31:47.530 --> 0:31:50.410 you know, sometimes those, those dreams get laid out and 0:31:50.410 --> 0:31:52.290 then later on they come to fruition. And so I 0:31:52.290 --> 0:31:54.370 feel like that's beginning to happen now for us. 0:31:54.370 --> 0:31:57.010 That's wonderful. I'm really, really, really grateful for it. Now, 0:31:57.010 --> 0:31:59.010 what kind of community is it? Are there many Jewish 0:31:59.010 --> 0:32:00.370 people here in Eden Prairie? 0:32:00.450 --> 0:32:03.850 Uh, not a lot more in Saint Louis Park, but 0:32:03.890 --> 0:32:07.170 within our congregation we have we have several folks, um, 0:32:07.170 --> 0:32:09.810 who have come to faith, you know, in times past 0:32:09.810 --> 0:32:14.010 and have kind of, I think, surfaced the whole conviction of, okay, 0:32:14.050 --> 0:32:15.930 what are we going to do for the Jewish community 0:32:15.930 --> 0:32:19.780 around us and I, I met I remember a couple 0:32:19.820 --> 0:32:21.860 of years ago, I went to Mayo for a physical, 0:32:22.180 --> 0:32:27.020 and my physician happened to be a Jewish doctor, and 0:32:27.020 --> 0:32:30.180 we got into quite an interesting conversation as he wanted 0:32:30.180 --> 0:32:32.420 to know why I was a pastor and what I 0:32:32.460 --> 0:32:36.020 actually believed, and I wasn't sure it was going really well, 0:32:36.020 --> 0:32:38.500 except at the very end he walked into the waiting 0:32:38.500 --> 0:32:40.219 room and he said, could you come back here for 0:32:40.220 --> 0:32:42.300 a moment? So I went back there. He took me 0:32:42.300 --> 0:32:44.580 into his office and and he just began to share 0:32:44.580 --> 0:32:47.660 his heart about his family and his ministry. And what 0:32:47.660 --> 0:32:50.420 opened the door was really me telling him the story 0:32:50.420 --> 0:32:53.740 of my dad. What happened in Holland. But then. But 0:32:53.740 --> 0:32:56.300 then hearing from me that, you know, I wanted to 0:32:56.340 --> 0:32:59.459 learn as much from him as to share with him. 0:32:59.460 --> 0:33:02.220 And so that that began kind of a unique conversation. 0:33:02.220 --> 0:33:04.780 That's so great, by the way, all evangelism. The very 0:33:04.780 --> 0:33:07.060 first step is not learning what to say, right, but 0:33:07.060 --> 0:33:10.900 how to listen. Yeah, yeah, I think that's so, so valuable. Uh, 0:33:10.900 --> 0:33:14.500 that's that's just fantastic. I truly, truly appreciate your heart 0:33:14.500 --> 0:33:17.960 for Jewish people. Thanks. I have some interesting, uh, what's 0:33:17.960 --> 0:33:22.720 interesting to me about Holland. Yeah. Uh, or the Netherlands. 0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:27.720 The most, uh, in western and Central Europe. The most 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:30.840 Jewish people who perished in the Holocaust were from Holland. 0:33:30.880 --> 0:33:31.400 Oh, wow. 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:35.480 Uh, the highest percentage of the Jewish community of any 0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:41.160 country were from Holland. And I think, unfortunately, that happened sadly, horribly. 0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:44.920 But most believers think that all the Dutch were looking 0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:48.440 to protect Jewish people. Right. Uh, because of the story 0:33:48.440 --> 0:33:49.400 of Corrie ten boom. 0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:50.480 Right. But not. 0:33:50.480 --> 0:33:54.680 The case. Your. Your dad's family? Yeah. Uh, they they 0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:55.440 were unique. 0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:55.880 Yeah. 0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:59.600 Uh, they they were not normative. Right. And most of 0:33:59.600 --> 0:34:02.640 the Dutch did not, uh, act like Corrie Ten boom 0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:06.440 or your family. And and so I'm especially grateful, you know, 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:11.520 to stand against the tide. Right. It's such a special trait. 0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:15.060 I think it's a great reminder about when when it 0:34:15.060 --> 0:34:19.060 comes to doing what is right, no matter how the 0:34:19.060 --> 0:34:23.259 culture is going, no matter how much pressure there is standing. 0:34:23.340 --> 0:34:26.460 Protecting the innocent, caring for those who are being oppressed, 0:34:27.020 --> 0:34:29.900 that that's just a tremendous heritage you have. 0:34:29.940 --> 0:34:30.739 Yeah. Thanks. 0:34:30.780 --> 0:34:33.899 Yeah, I think it's it's it's even more remarkable when 0:34:33.900 --> 0:34:36.899 we realize everyone in Holland was not doing that. Right. 0:34:37.060 --> 0:34:39.779 That's. Yeah. And that's a really good point you brought out. Yeah. 0:34:39.980 --> 0:34:43.340 It's a really exceptional family. That's great. And I'm sorry 0:34:43.340 --> 0:34:46.700 about the. Was it your uncle? Great uncle that, uh, 0:34:47.060 --> 0:34:49.379 that joined with the Nazis. Is that was. 0:34:49.420 --> 0:34:53.140 Yeah. You know, he ended up, um, afterwards. It's interesting story. 0:34:53.140 --> 0:34:56.620 He ended up, um, because because it was just the 0:34:56.620 --> 0:35:00.060 two boys and one had been killed by the SS. Um, 0:35:00.380 --> 0:35:03.420 instead of hanging him, they gave him a prison term. 0:35:03.420 --> 0:35:07.739 And what's really interesting, Michael, is, is that years later, 0:35:07.739 --> 0:35:11.819 he was released from prison and he had repented for 0:35:11.820 --> 0:35:13.880 what he had he had done, and he spent the 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:16.720 rest of his life taking care of a paraplegic. Wow. 0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:20.239 And he saw that as kind of his, uh, way 0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:23.120 of giving something back for what he had done. So 0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:25.520 there was some restitution at the end. Yeah. 0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:28.479 That's great that he repented. I think that's amazing. Yeah. Uh, 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:32.640 my mom, uh, who survived the Holocaust, people would say 0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:36.000 to her, uh, how is it that you don't she 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:39.920 was not bitter. Right. And, uh, she became a follower 0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:43.799 of Yeshua, and she forgave. People would say to, how 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:45.640 did you forgive? And she'd say, they're never going to 0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:46.880 have to stand before me. 0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:47.440 Yeah. 0:35:47.480 --> 0:35:48.600 And it's. 0:35:48.800 --> 0:35:49.040 True. 0:35:49.080 --> 0:35:52.160 She she recognized they needed their repentance. Had to come 0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:55.400 before God. Yeah. And so, anyway, thank you so much. 0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:55.879 Thank you. 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:57.759 Thank you for sponsoring this conference. 0:35:57.800 --> 0:35:59.799 Yeah. We love chosen people. And, uh. 0:35:59.840 --> 0:36:01.200 And you love Moody Radio. 0:36:01.480 --> 0:36:03.520 Absolutely. I hope more churches will get involved. 0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:05.440 Great. Thank you. We're going to take a break here. 0:36:05.480 --> 0:36:06.640 Thank you so much, pastor Dale. 0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:10.200 That's Dale Hummel from Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, right 0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:12.940 outside of Side of Minneapolis. That's it. We're going to 0:36:12.940 --> 0:36:15.219 come right back with more of your questions in just 0:36:15.219 --> 0:36:18.620 a moment. You're listening to Open Line. Don't go away. 0:36:36.180 --> 0:36:38.779 If you've always wanted to see Israel but haven't been 0:36:38.780 --> 0:36:42.259 able to travel there, or maybe you were there and 0:36:42.260 --> 0:36:45.780 you'd like to remember better. Chosen People Ministries is offering 0:36:45.780 --> 0:36:50.339 a book, Israel, the land and the people. It's filled 0:36:50.340 --> 0:36:53.580 with some of the best photos of Israel anywhere. It's 0:36:53.580 --> 0:36:56.820 a coffee table sized book and it presents the beauty, history, 0:36:56.820 --> 0:37:00.740 culture and variety of the land, from snow capped Mount 0:37:00.780 --> 0:37:05.180 Hermon to Masada, from ancient Jerusalem to modern Tel Aviv, 0:37:05.500 --> 0:37:08.460 and much more. If you'd like a copy, just go 0:37:08.460 --> 0:37:12.029 to our website Openline radio.org. Scroll down and click on 0:37:12.030 --> 0:37:16.230 the link that says A Free gift from Chosen People Ministries, 0:37:16.590 --> 0:37:20.390 and you'll receive your copy of Israel, the land and 0:37:20.390 --> 0:37:31.029 the people. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm Michael Ray. 0:37:31.510 --> 0:37:34.350 Our phone lines are not open today. This is a 0:37:34.350 --> 0:37:39.270 rebroadcast today, so don't call. Appreciate you listening, but don't 0:37:39.270 --> 0:37:43.469 call today. You can relisten to this program and others. 0:37:43.590 --> 0:37:49.470 Just go to our website openlibrary.org. That's openlibrary.org. And there's 0:37:49.469 --> 0:37:51.710 all sorts of resources there. And you can ask your 0:37:51.710 --> 0:37:55.430 Bible questions at that website by clicking on Ask Michael 0:37:55.469 --> 0:37:58.790 a question. I hope you're enjoying this program. It first 0:37:58.830 --> 0:38:02.750 aired in 2023 with a live audience. The people there 0:38:02.790 --> 0:38:06.750 were at a Chosen People Ministries conference called Finding Shalom 0:38:06.830 --> 0:38:10.450 Peace in a Troubled World in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. Let's 0:38:10.450 --> 0:38:11.850 go back to that conference. 0:38:12.890 --> 0:38:15.810 Hi, I'm Mary Jane from Austin, Minnesota. 0:38:16.250 --> 0:38:19.330 Would you? Oh, I love that. Austin, Minnesota. 0:38:19.370 --> 0:38:25.450 Yeah. Um, well, will you talk about replacement theology and 0:38:25.450 --> 0:38:28.489 just how far back in history does that ideology or 0:38:28.489 --> 0:38:29.410 doctrine go? 0:38:29.450 --> 0:38:35.050 Okay. The very first person to articulate, uh, replacement theology, 0:38:35.050 --> 0:38:37.290 that God has rejected the Jewish people because of their 0:38:37.290 --> 0:38:41.049 rejection of Jesus and replaced Israel with the church, was 0:38:41.050 --> 0:38:46.290 Justin Martyr, early second century. However, there seemed to be 0:38:46.450 --> 0:38:51.810 an incipient replacement theology that in Rome that Paul is 0:38:51.810 --> 0:38:53.689 dealing with people who say, well, where can you find 0:38:53.690 --> 0:38:57.050 replacement theology in the New Testament? You can find it 0:38:57.090 --> 0:39:00.610 in Romans nine through 11, because Paul is rebuking it. Right. 0:39:00.650 --> 0:39:05.810 And the key verse to understand that is Romans 1128 0:39:05.810 --> 0:39:12.670 and 29. Nine. And that, uh, passage, uh, Paul says this. 0:39:12.910 --> 0:39:18.750 You hear the pages turning, uh, it says I'm looking 0:39:18.750 --> 0:39:21.390 at acts. No wonder why I can't find it. I 0:39:21.390 --> 0:39:26.069 got to learn these books of the Bible. Uh. Okay. 0:39:26.110 --> 0:39:31.110 Romans 1128 and 29. What Paul says about the Jewish 0:39:31.110 --> 0:39:35.150 people is that they are enemies of the gospel, not 0:39:35.150 --> 0:39:38.549 enemies of God, but enemies of the good news. They're 0:39:38.550 --> 0:39:43.750 opposed to the good news. And so he's obviously talking 0:39:43.790 --> 0:39:47.390 about Jewish people who don't believe regarding the gospel. They 0:39:47.430 --> 0:39:49.790 are enemies, but it's for your advantage. It's for the 0:39:49.790 --> 0:39:52.390 advantage of Gentiles. That's why the gospel has gone out 0:39:52.390 --> 0:39:55.710 to the Gentiles. But then he says regarding election, that 0:39:55.710 --> 0:40:02.630 means chosenness regarding election, they are loved because of the patriarchs. 0:40:02.670 --> 0:40:06.410 God made promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. His love 0:40:06.410 --> 0:40:09.250 is unconditional. He will always love the Jewish people. He 0:40:09.250 --> 0:40:13.010 doesn't say he'll love them again. No, they are loved 0:40:13.050 --> 0:40:16.210 even in their status as being people who don't believe. 0:40:16.250 --> 0:40:21.569 Since God's gracious gifts are and calling are irrevocable, all 0:40:21.570 --> 0:40:25.610 the gifts that are described in Romans nine four are still. 0:40:25.650 --> 0:40:29.050 Still belong to the Jewish people. Never been replaced. So 0:40:29.530 --> 0:40:30.090 there you go. 0:40:30.250 --> 0:40:30.810 Thank you. 0:40:31.250 --> 0:40:35.129 Hi, I'm Laurie and I live in Minnetonka, Minnesota, and 0:40:35.130 --> 0:40:38.290 I just want to welcome you here. Thank you for coming. Um, 0:40:38.290 --> 0:40:42.130 my original question had to do with a Jewish neighbor 0:40:42.130 --> 0:40:44.650 that was reaching out to me, and we've started to dialogue, 0:40:44.650 --> 0:40:47.250 but I think you've already addressed my question there. So, 0:40:47.250 --> 0:40:50.170 if I may, I'm going to pose a question about 0:40:50.170 --> 0:40:53.690 the remnant. Um, will that be a part of the 0:40:54.090 --> 0:40:56.890 will Jews and Gentiles be a part of the remnant? 0:40:56.890 --> 0:40:58.930 And does that does that have any tie in to 0:40:58.930 --> 0:41:00.330 the predestination? 0:41:00.370 --> 0:41:05.660 Okay. Well, the remnant today is As Jewish people who 0:41:05.660 --> 0:41:08.620 believe in Jesus. If you look at Romans 11 one 0:41:08.660 --> 0:41:12.340 through five, uh, he says, as God rejected his people 0:41:12.340 --> 0:41:16.020 whom he foreknew. Absolutely not. May it never be. No 0:41:16.020 --> 0:41:18.660 no no no no. And then he says, look, God 0:41:18.660 --> 0:41:21.259 is always the proof that God has not rejected the 0:41:21.260 --> 0:41:25.339 Jewish people is he has preserved a remnant. He says, look, 0:41:25.380 --> 0:41:27.140 God has always worked through a remnant. There was a 0:41:27.140 --> 0:41:30.900 remnant in the days of Elijah who were faithful, 7000 0:41:30.940 --> 0:41:34.819 who did not bow the knee to Baal. Uh, and 0:41:34.820 --> 0:41:37.580 he says in verse five, in the same way, then 0:41:37.780 --> 0:41:42.700 there is also, at the present time right now, a 0:41:42.700 --> 0:41:46.580 remnant chosen by grace. And so there is a remnant 0:41:46.580 --> 0:41:52.460 of Jewish people today who believe in Jesus. And that's 0:41:52.460 --> 0:41:55.060 the proof that we're sort of like the down payment. 0:41:55.540 --> 0:41:58.540 And one day later on in the chapter, he talks 0:41:58.540 --> 0:42:00.219 about the day when the rest of the nation will 0:42:00.219 --> 0:42:02.900 believe all Israel will be saved, and not all Israel 0:42:02.900 --> 0:42:05.280 of all of all time, but all those alive who 0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:08.040 trust in the Lord at his return. So the remnant, 0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:10.440 I believe when we talk about the remnant, it's the 0:42:10.440 --> 0:42:14.680 remnant of Jewish people who are the faithful remnant of Israel. 0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:16.520 That's in the end, believe. 0:42:16.760 --> 0:42:19.600 Thank you. And does that have any tie in to predestination? 0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:21.280 Well, obviously they're chosen by grace. 0:42:21.320 --> 0:42:21.840 Chosen. 0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:23.200 The election. 0:42:23.320 --> 0:42:23.840 Mhm. 0:42:24.160 --> 0:42:26.680 So twice chosen. Chosen as the Jewish people and then 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:31.480 chosen by grace to believe. I think that's that's really clear. Uh, 0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:35.319 people say, well, how can God choose who's going to 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:38.560 believe and still call on people to be responsible to believe? 0:42:39.000 --> 0:42:42.040 That's that's above my pay grade. God alone knows the 0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:44.680 answer to that question. I believe that mystery is true, 0:42:44.680 --> 0:42:47.359 but it's a mystery I don't. And you know what? 0:42:47.400 --> 0:42:49.880 Any theologian that can explain it, they're a lot smarter 0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:52.080 than I am, so I trust them. 0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:53.239 So thank you. 0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:53.760 Mhm. 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:57.560 Hi I'm Carl Johnson from Saint Louis Park, Minnesota. And 0:42:57.560 --> 0:42:59.399 this is a little bit different kind of question. But 0:42:59.400 --> 0:43:02.739 with this being the 75th anniversary of the discovery of 0:43:02.739 --> 0:43:06.219 the Dead Sea Scrolls. What impact would you say as 0:43:06.219 --> 0:43:09.140 a Bible scholar, the scrolls have had on our understanding 0:43:09.140 --> 0:43:12.900 of the scriptures and also Second Temple Judaism? 0:43:13.500 --> 0:43:14.980 I think one of the things that the Dead Sea 0:43:14.980 --> 0:43:18.460 Scrolls has done is confirmed for Second Temple Judaism, that 0:43:19.420 --> 0:43:23.700 it was, uh, it was not uniform, it was, uh, 0:43:25.140 --> 0:43:31.380 it was Judaism's, uh, that it was that there were 0:43:31.380 --> 0:43:36.180 different kinds of Judaism we know. Sadducean Pharisaic, uh, there 0:43:36.180 --> 0:43:39.420 was monastic Judaism out in the wilderness, the Qumran community 0:43:39.460 --> 0:43:42.300 as seen Judaism, uh, and they all had their favorite 0:43:42.300 --> 0:43:46.940 version of the Bible, of which, uh, the Dead Sea 0:43:46.980 --> 0:43:50.660 Scrolls reflect all the different versions. We have different copies, 0:43:50.780 --> 0:43:55.420 different versions reflected or families of texts, but the main 0:43:55.420 --> 0:43:59.299 text is what we call the proto-masoretic, or what later 0:43:59.300 --> 0:44:03.000 becomes the The Masoretic Text. So what? The first thing 0:44:03.000 --> 0:44:05.520 that it has done for us, it has helped us 0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:09.400 with textual criticism. We can look at the variant readings 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:15.040 and see how how the texts developed and the different families, 0:44:15.080 --> 0:44:19.960 and decide which was the best earliest texts of the 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:24.040 Hebrew Bible, so that we it helps with like for example, 0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:26.640 in Isaiah 53 where it says, he shall see and 0:44:26.640 --> 0:44:29.960 be glad in, I think verse 12, uh, in the 0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:32.359 Dead Sea Scroll, it says, he shall see the light 0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:35.319 of life and be glad. And so it has an 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:38.520 implication for the resurrection. And I think most versions will 0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:43.800 take that as the original text on the second, uh, score. Uh, 0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:46.200 it has shown we have the full scroll of Isaiah 0:44:46.200 --> 0:44:52.400 from the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's 99.9% the same as 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:56.400 the next earliest text that we have 1200 years later. 0:44:56.400 --> 0:44:59.040 So it's confirmed the accuracy of the transmission of the 0:44:59.040 --> 0:44:59.690 of the text. 0:44:59.730 --> 0:45:00.570 Great. Thank you. 0:45:01.290 --> 0:45:02.730 Okay. One minute. Go ahead. 0:45:02.770 --> 0:45:03.130 Hi. 0:45:03.530 --> 0:45:09.090 My name is Sam Samuel from Ramsey, Minnesota. My question 0:45:09.090 --> 0:45:13.370 is a short one. Uh, the, uh, revelation 14. 0:45:13.410 --> 0:45:13.890 Mhm. 0:45:14.330 --> 0:45:19.890 The 144,000 that were redeemed from the earth. Who are they? 0:45:20.410 --> 0:45:26.050 Uh, your neighbors, I don't know. Uh, uh, that's referring 0:45:26.090 --> 0:45:29.130 in revelation seven. It says that there are 12,000 from 0:45:29.130 --> 0:45:34.410 each tribe, uh, making 144,000 servants who are sealed and 0:45:34.410 --> 0:45:39.610 protected by God. Uh, and so there are 144,000 Jewish 0:45:39.610 --> 0:45:43.170 people in the tribulation. God knows their tribes, I don't. Uh, 0:45:43.570 --> 0:45:47.689 and he he preserves them. It doesn't say how they 0:45:47.690 --> 0:45:53.250 serve God in Revelation seven. It just doesn't say it. However, 0:45:53.290 --> 0:45:56.010 in the next paragraph, it talks about men from every tribe, 0:45:56.050 --> 0:45:59.750 people from every tribe and tongue and nation worshipping. So 0:45:59.750 --> 0:46:02.549 the implication by context is what they are doing is 0:46:02.550 --> 0:46:05.990 they are proclaiming the gospel in the tribulation so that many, 0:46:05.989 --> 0:46:09.830 many people will believe and God's going to use 144,000 0:46:09.830 --> 0:46:13.469 Jewish Billy Graham's to proclaim the gospel in the tribulation period. 0:46:13.510 --> 0:46:16.350 That's something that's good, don't you think? Thanks for your question. 0:46:16.510 --> 0:46:18.790 And that's the program for the week. We're done. Thank 0:46:18.790 --> 0:46:22.950 you so much for all your questions right here. Appreciate that. 0:46:22.950 --> 0:46:26.430 Thanks to Wooddale church. Chosen People Ministries for hosting this 0:46:26.430 --> 0:46:31.430 live audience. Grateful for today's Openline team. Tricia McMillan, Joel Swan, 0:46:31.430 --> 0:46:35.150 Courtney Young, all their expertise made this happen. Remember, keep 0:46:35.150 --> 0:46:37.150 in touch with Open Line during the week by going 0:46:37.150 --> 0:46:40.990 to our website Openline radio. Org. That page is everything 0:46:40.989 --> 0:46:43.589 you're looking for. Keep reading the Bible. We'll talk about 0:46:43.590 --> 0:46:46.790 it next week. Open line with Doctor Michael Riedel is 0:46:46.790 --> 0:46:51.509 a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.