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S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. Come as

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S1: you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems impossible and

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S1: live as you never imagined. Start your morning with a laugh.

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S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not tricks,

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S2: but tips and tricks. Tips and tricks to kill. Tips

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S2: and tricks.

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S1: Delivering the truth daily.

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S3: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up

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S3: with achievement and good works. Well, God wasn't impressed by that,

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S3: even if other people were.

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S2: The gospel changes everything.

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S4: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement

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S4: just falling to the ground.

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S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl

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S1: and crew.

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S3: Good Monday morning to you. This is Carl and crew.

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S3: When you have a big decision. Big or small? I'll

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S3: include small ones. Do you have a process? What's your

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S3: process for figuring out? Do I do A or B?

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S3: Or maybe it's not just two, maybe it's A, B

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S3: or C or all of the above.

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S2: The more the more options there are, the worse it is.

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S3: Right?

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S2: Exactly. In all honesty, one option is good for me.

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S2: If someone just says, this is what you're doing, that's

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S2: how I'd love to operate. But, uh, if, you know,

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S2: if I've got to make a decision between two, don't give.

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S2: The more you give me, the worse it's gonna get.

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S5: It's good to know, you know.

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S3: And you think about the the decisions. You the big ones, right?

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S3: The big buckets. Relational.

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S2: Sure.

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S3: Of course. Do I do I proceed in this relationship

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S3: with this person or do I stay single? Do I

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S3: date or not? Do I date this person? Or maybe

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S3: this person? Maybe you have two potentials. Hey, do I

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S3: take this job or this job? Do I move or stay.

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S3: Do I go to this church or that church? What

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S3: are some other I've covered? Some of the big ones.

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S3: What other big life decisions do we find ourselves facing?

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S2: I mean, there's so much that kind of goes under

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S2: the umbrella of financial. But houses, cars, uh, children's schools.

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S5: Oh, that's a big one.

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S2: Uh, I don't know. I think that the I mean,

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S2: it all kind of feels like those things that where

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S2: our life is kind of gonna be directed from or into. And,

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S2: you know, those are big, big decisions.

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S3: And you can feel like, okay, I'm at this. I'm

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S3: at this stopping point at a Y in the road.

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S4: Yes.

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S3: And I'm going to go this way or I'm going

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S3: to go that way. And then there are things will

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S3: be different on this path than the other one. Yeah.

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S3: So it's it's not neutral here like either I'm going

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S3: to go one way or the other. And and sometimes

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S3: and I I've been there. It can feel paralyzing.

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S2: Like what?

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S3: Like what if I make the wrong choice?

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S2: Yes. The fear of making the wrong choice, I think,

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S2: is a is a big one. And you want to.

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S2: It's hard sometimes because as Christians, we want to be

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S2: operating under the will of God. Yes. And so it's like, oh, no,

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S2: am I gonna make the wrong decision and not operate

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S2: under God's will here? And is everything gonna go wrong

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S2: after that?

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S5: And the thing is, too.

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S4: Sometimes we plant ourselves at the bottom of that y

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S4: and we just don't make the decision. And that's not

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S4: good either.

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S2: Yeah, that's a decision in and of itself.

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S5: Yeah.

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S3: Just getting stuck in indecision.

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S4: Exactly.

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S3: I'm excited about this week because we're going to be

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S3: talking to a lot of different experts, seasoned, well lived

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S3: people who are godly, really around this area of godly

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S3: decision making, seeking the will of God. Because this comes

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S3: up all the time. If you are a follower of

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S3: Jesus Christ, it is very natural to want to make

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S3: decisions that please him. But sometimes it can be like,

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S3: what do this house or this house? They both seem

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S3: like good options. Homeschool or or Christian school? A public

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S3: school or private school for my kid. Should they? I

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S3: don't know. Do you? Sometimes people can get down to

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S3: the minutia, this outfit or that outfit, depending on how

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S3: deep you go into this. And it can feel like

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S3: life is a series of decisions where I'm trying to

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S3: get everyone right. I want to get 100% on the test.

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S3: But what if I miss one? Is our approach even

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S3: right in terms of how we look at decisions coming up?

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S3: I want to kick off this week with a special guest. Um,

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S3: and I'm going to I'm going to tell you why

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S3: I picked him coming up. This was, I believe, a

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S3: very God ordained conversation that I was privy to that

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S3: led me to starting off the week with him. I'll explain.

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S3: Coming up here on Karl and crew.

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S1: You can take him out of Alaska. But you can't

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S1: take Alaska out of him. Carl is in the crew.

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S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

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S3: Well, there are many reasons why I love working at

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S3: Moody Bible Institute, but one of the cool and maybe

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S3: unexpected perks. Jonathan, I wonder if you would agree with

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S3: me on this.

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S2: I'm ready.

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S3: We have the opportunity to have access to some pretty

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S3: cool stuff. So one of the things that we do,

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S3: in addition to gathering weekly for chapel, we have a

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S3: chapel service that's just for Moody Bible Institute students and employees.

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S3: But we also have times that we gather in smaller

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S3: kind of subsections where we have devotions together.

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S2: Yeah, absolutely. A devotional for all of Moody Radio and

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S2: Moody Global Media together come together. And we just get

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S2: in the word and we.

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S3: How many meetings do you open in prayer in your workplace? Like,

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S3: there's so many cool things that happen when you work

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S3: in a place that's christocentric, where the Word of God

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S3: is regularly open and expounded upon, and you're constantly learning

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S3: and being challenged. I say all that to say that

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S3: our guests that we have this morning, he was the

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S3: one who was presenting at one of our recent Moody

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S3: Media devotions, which was employees of Radio and Publishing, Moody

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S3: Global Media. And he said something that caught my ear,

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S3: and I had never heard it put like this, and

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S3: I kind of jotted it down. I said, this is

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S3: something I definitely want to talk about on Carl and crew,

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S3: and this is this is what he said. And I'll

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S3: ask him to give me the direct quote. But this

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S3: is as I remember it. He said, God's will for

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S3: your life is 99% the same as God's will for

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S3: my life. And I had never heard somebody say it

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S3: like that. And it caught my ear. And I thought, huh,

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S3: that's interesting, because that's not at all how I had

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S3: viewed God's will. I think we want to believe that

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S3: there's this, sort of that everything that's for us is

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S3: unique to us, and that we have to kind of

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S3: discern our way to it. And that's often how we

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S3: approach conversations around purpose and will.

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S2: Everything is catered to. Jonathan's calling is catered completely to Jonathan.

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S2: There's almost no similarity.

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S5: So I heard.

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S3: That and I thought, I gotta ask him more about this.

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S3: So Carl Vedas is joining us right now. When you

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S3: said that, it really got me thinking. Give me the

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S3: direct quote in case I missed it. Tell me it again.

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S6: Your memory about what I said is probably more accurate

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S6: than my memory about what I said, but what you

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S6: said sounds exactly like the way I put it. Yeah.

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S3: So explain what you meant by that, because that was

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S3: surprising to me.

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S6: What we've got is an idea about God's will that

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S6: you just said is often very personal and very specific.

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S6: But theologians tend to divide God's will up into three ways,

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S6: and they'll use different terms. The terms I will use

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S6: will be God's sovereign will, God's moral will, and God's

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S6: personal will. So God's sovereign will are things like, you know,

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S6: planetary motion and so on. Just God does this because

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S6: he put it in order. God's moral will is what

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S6: we read in things like the Ten Commandments and the

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S6: sermon on the Mount. And then we get to God's

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S6: personal will, which is, you know, which college should I

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S6: go to? Which person should I marry? What church should

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S6: I attend? That kind of a thing. And we tend

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S6: to concentrate as humans only on that third part of

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S6: God's will. Like what? What's in it for me? What's

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S6: happening for me? And we often wrap it in very

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S6: spiritual terminology, but often it's more about ego than it

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S6: really is about determining God's will, because we just kind

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S6: of skip over the other two parts the sovereign and

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S6: the moral will. But the truth of the matter is,

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S6: God's moral will is the basis for God's personal will

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S6: and my life goals. And if I spend more time

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S6: concentrating on what does God call all of us to

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S6: do morally, ethically, theologically, that's really 99% the same for

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S6: you as it is for me. And that 1% that

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S6: comes out at the end is kind of like, well,

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S6: when God's will runs through my life and God's will

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S6: runs through your life. It's going to look different in

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S6: your life than mine because of your personality traits, your background,

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S6: and so on than it will in mine. But that

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S6: end result is less about doing God's will than it

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S6: is about the results of God's will.

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S3: Karl Vader is our guest right now. He's served in

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S3: small church ministry for over 40 years. He speaks and

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S3: writes from decades of hands on pastoral experience. He's an author,

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S3: hosts a podcast. So let's talk about this 99% of

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S3: God's will. The category you named the sovereign will. The

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S3: moral will explain a little bit more about the things

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S3: those big bucket, God's will, things that we can definitively say, yes,

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S3: this is true for me and it is true for you.

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S6: Yeah, well, let's start with the first words ever written

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S6: as scripture the Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from

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S6: the mountain. We're all supposed to do that, right? And

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S6: in those, it's divided out into two ways how to

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S6: love God and how to love others, so that when

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S6: Jesus was later asked, you know, what's the greatest commandment

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S6: he didn't give? Like one of the ten he he

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S6: outlined the ten. He said the first most important thing

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S6: is to love God, which is what the first four

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S6: of the Ten Commandments are about. The rest of it

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S6: is to love your neighbor as yourself, which is what

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S6: the last six commandments are about. And then he said

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S6: this amazing thing if you've done this, you've fulfilled all

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S6: the law. And the prophets, like the rest of the Bible,

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S6: is commentary on how to love God and love others.

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S6: So if you are doing that, and I am doing that,

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S6: that is really what God is concerned about. We're concerned

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S6: with the where and the when. God is concerned with

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S6: who we are.

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S5: Oh, wow.

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S3: Carl Vader's our guest right now. You know, the sovereign

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S3: and the moral will. But what most people get to

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S3: is okay, but what about I have this decision that

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S3: I need to make. I need to know what is

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S3: God's will. What job am I supposed to take? Am

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S3: I supposed to move or not move. Should I send

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S3: my kid to this school or that school? You're certainly

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S3: not suggesting that there that we shouldn't seek God's will

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S3: in those decision making, that even though it's just the 1%, right?

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S6: Yeah. No. We should be seeking God's will for all

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S6: things I'm not worrying about. You know, what color or

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S6: socks to wear this morning. Although if you're planning to

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S6: wear socks with sandals. God might even be concerned about that. Uh.

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S6: But no, there are times. Yeah, especially in the big

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S6: things in life when we need to be pausing and

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S6: paying attention. And we should be constantly in prayer and

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S6: constantly seeking to be walking by God's will. But in

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S6: addition to that, we need to realize God is a

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S6: loving father who often gives us choices. Uh, imagine if

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S6: you've got a child and it's a hot day and

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S6: they want a popsicle, and you say you want a

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S6: red one or an orange one, and the son sits

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S6: on the ground and goes, oh, no, oh no. Which one.

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S6: Which one does dad want me to have? If I

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S6: pick the wrong one, I'm going to be in trouble. Oh, no.

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S6: Which one? No. I'm giving you a choice. This is your.

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S6: I love you enough to give you options. And many, many,

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S6: many times God loves us enough to give us options.

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S6: So if the decisions you're looking at don't have a

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S6: clear answer, if one of them isn't clearly forbidden in Scripture,

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S6: then they're both open to you. If one of them

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S6: isn't clearly much, much more likely to make you more

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S6: like Christ than the other one, then you've got an option.

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S6: But most of the decisions we make aren't really because

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S6: one is forbidden, or because one is so obviously so

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S6: much better. If you're confused and if you're not sure

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S6: because they both look kind of equivalent morally and theologically,

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S6: God may actually be giving you choices because he loves

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S6: you and wants to give you choices.

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S3: Karl Vader is our guest right now. You know, it's

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S3: funny that you mentioned the popsicle illustration, because I actually

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S3: have one of my kids is particularly Indecisive and so

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S3: sometimes feels a little stressed, even with simple decisions like, hey,

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S3: so what do you want for dinner tonight? And this

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S3: child will often say, can you just decide because I

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S3: don't really know what I want. And so, in other words,

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S3: can you just make the decision for me? Sometimes when

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S3: it comes to life's decisions, we can feel like that.

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S3: I want I want to know God's will because I

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S3: want to be in God's plan. But sometimes it's also

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S3: a I don't want this decision to rest on me

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S3: because I have no clue. Let's talk that through a

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S3: little bit with our special guest, Carl. More coming up

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S3: here on Carl and Cru.

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S1: Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.

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S1: You're listening to Carl and Cru.

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S3: So you've got some decisions that you need to make

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S3: in your life, and you want to know God's will.

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S3: When we asked you last week, what are some topics

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S3: you'd like us to talk more about? This one came

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S3: up a lot. How do I discern God's will for

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S3: my life? Carl Vedas, our guest right now is served

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S3: in small church ministry for over 40 years. He's an author,

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S3: a podcast host. What is a good framework? You mentioned

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S3: sometimes God gives us choices, but what's a good framework

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S3: for beginning to determine that I am staying in God's

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S3: will versus stepping out of it?

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S6: I love that Christians ask this on a regular basis

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S6: because it means we're taking this stuff seriously. So even

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S6: if you're in a little bit of confusion or distress,

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S6: the fact that this is concerning you is a sign

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S6: that you are truly desiring to do God's will. You know,

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S6: people who don't care don't care, right? But the fact

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S6: that you care means something. So the first thing to

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S6: look at is, are any of my choices directly forbidden

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S6: in Scripture? Like, okay, I've got I've got a job

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S6: option and I can take a promotion. But I know

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S6: that with that promotion is going to mean that I'm

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S6: going to have to lie to customers or I'm going

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S6: to have to do something that is deceitful or wrong,

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S6: or maybe it's simply going to take me away from

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S6: my family so much that I'm not going to be

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S6: able to commit my time to my family, which should

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S6: be my first priority. So if you look at that

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S6: and go, you know, that's really not going to be

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S6: good for my spiritual health or it's going to require

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S6: me to do something that's forbidden in Scripture. Well, then

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S6: that option is off the table. So you remove that

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S6: off the table. That's the first thing. The second one is,

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S6: are any of these options going to help me do

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S6: better at honoring the things that God wants me to honor?

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S6: As I mentioned earlier, a job that's going to take

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S6: me away from my family constantly and actually hurt my

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S6: family who I'm trying to provide for. I should put

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S6: that lower on the priority list than something that allows

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S6: me to to be with my family and spend time

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S6: with them and to nourish and help and bless them.

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S6: Anything that's going to pull me away from God, I

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S6: move away from, and anything that will pull me toward

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S6: God and my family and those that God has called

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S6: me to love, I move towards. So that's the first

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S6: decision point that you that we need to be considering

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S6: for every major decision.

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S3: You know, I know that you have done a lot

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S3: of pastoral counseling in your years. Uh, have you ever

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S3: encountered situations where some you mentioned this 1% of the

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S3: personal will, the 99% falls into God's sovereign and moral will.

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S3: Have you ever found that that oftentimes that we are

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S3: maybe disregarding some of the 99% of God's sovereign and

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S3: moral will, but yet wanting God to kind of green

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S3: light the 1% that we want. Have you seen that

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S3: to be the case in some of your pastoral counseling?

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S6: I've seen it in my own life, alone, in my

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S6: own pastoral counseling. We're always looking for loopholes. It's not

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S6: a coincidence that the person who asked Jesus about this

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S6: directly in Scripture was a lawyer.

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S3: Good point.

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S6: Right. The teacher of the law said, yeah, but who's

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S6: my neighbor? Like he was looking for a loophole. God said,

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S6: you know, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind,

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S6: and strength. And he went, okay. There's only one God.

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S6: I'm a Jew. That's easy for me. What's not easy?

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S6: But it's simple. How to do that could be challenging.

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S6: But who? That is that simple. There is a God.

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S6: That's the one I worship. But he's like, I got

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S6: a bunch of neighbors and there's a bunch of them

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S6: I don't like. So let me ask Jesus, who's my neighbor?

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S6: Because maybe he'll give me a loophole that I can

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S6: squeeze through and go, oh, okay. So the people who

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S6: I like are my neighbors. The people who I don't

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S6: like aren't my neighbors. He's looking for an excuse, and

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S6: Jesus comes back and turns the question on him. And

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S6: he doesn't say, here's who your neighbor is. He says,

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S6: here's how to be a neighbor. And that excuse looking

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S6: and loophole searching is a part of our lives. And

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S6: I've seen it in counseling in so many different lives,

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S6: including my own. We're always looking for the loophole.

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S3: What do you make of you know, I have met

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S3: people who will often say with God's with with great assurance.

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S3: I feel like God is leading me in this direction

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S3: or I have peace with this decision. Therefore, I feel

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S3: like that's what God wants me to do. Um, how

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S3: much should we make of kind of our own Holy

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S3: Spirit nudges or what we feel like the Holy Spirit

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S3: is leading us to. Should that be definitive? Should we

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S3: make decisions based on what we feel like God's telling

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S3: us to do? I mean, that's fair game, but maybe

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S3: with some caution.

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S6: The quick answer is no. But let me let me

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S6: explain why our feelings are can be helpful as confirmation,

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S6: but they're never a good starting point. Okay, Scripture is

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S6: the starting point. What has God clearly said in His

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S6: Word that we should and should not do? Uh, and

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S6: then maybe when we get to the choice aspect, as

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S6: we were talking about earlier, where it's like you want to,

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S6: you know, the orange or the red popsicle at that point. Yeah.

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S6: Whichever one you feel like at that point is great,

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S6: but only after you've gone through and filtered everything through

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S6: the basis of God's Word. That has to be our

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S6: starting point.

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S3: I know you are working on a project about biblical

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S3: decision making and the priority wheel without giving us too much,

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S3: because I know that this is probably still a year

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S3: out from being for the public, but we want to

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S3: begin to train ourselves to care about the things that

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S3: God cares about, right? Making his priorities our priorities, which

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S3: will help us walk in his will.

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S6: Yes, exactly. And the Bible does prioritize how our relationships

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S6: should flow in our lives. Uh, Augustine, who was, uh,

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S6: many people call him Saint Augustine from the fourth century.

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S6: He came up with something called he called Ordo Amortise amoris,

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S6: which is Latin for the order of our love. And

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S6: what he did was he searched Scripture and he discovered

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S6: that there this whole love your neighbor thing does have

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S6: an order to it. Uh, for instance, our spouse should

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S6: be our first priority in our human lives because the

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S6: Bible says we are one flesh with our spouse. Secondly,

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S6: then those who are in our household should be a

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S6: priority for us. The Bible says that if we're not

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S6: taking care of our own household first, we're worse than

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S6: an unbeliever. It's actually a really strong passage that Second

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S6: Timothy talks about there. First Timothy five eight. If you're

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S6: not taking care of your own family, you're worse than

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S6: an unbeliever. So our spouse comes first, and then our

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S6: children and those within our own household. And then after that,

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S6: Galatians tells us, as we have opportunity, let us do

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S6: good to all people, especially those who belong to the

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S6: family of believers, which means our Christian brothers and sisters

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S6: come next in our priority. And then everyone, everyone is

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S6: of value to God. But I love the phrase in

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S6: Galatians six nine where it says to do good to

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S6: everyone as you have opportunity. There are, what, 9 billion

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S6: people on the planet? I don't have the opportunity to

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S6: be there the same way for those 9 billion, as

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S6: I have to be there for my children and grandchildren.

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S6: So my children and grandchildren and my household come first.

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S6: Before them even comes my wife, and before that comes God.

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S6: When you have that order in place, then our lives

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S6: start to make more sense and even our own emotional

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S6: and relational health gets stronger.

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S3: If you want more on our guests, Carl Vader's just

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S3: text Carl 800 555 7898. We're going to direct you

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S3: to his website and an article, Why Discipleship and Integrity

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S3: Matter More than ever right now. Just text Carl. Carl

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S3: with the K to 800 555 7898.

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S1: She was trying to earn her way to God. But

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S1: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in

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S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

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S3: Have you ever thought about why you believe what you believe?

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S2: I think it's a question we have to ask ourselves.

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S2: If we haven't, it's okay. But it's a good thing

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S2: to ask yourself. Yes. I've thought about why I believe

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S2: what I believe.

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S3: Why do you believe that Jesus is Lord? Why are

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S3: you a Christian?

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S2: Yeah, it's a good question. I think that for me,

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S2: the answer came. So a little bit of my story.

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S2: I was raised in a Christian home. I believe Jesus existed,

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S2: but I didn't follow him as Lord. But before I

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S2: even believed that he existed, I had some doubts about

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S2: that understanding that I was. I was raised through the culture,

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S2: and so it was kind of ingrained in me in

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S2: a way, but I had doubts about it until I

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S2: heard some of the, like, historical proofs of, you know,

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S2: the prophets who wrote these books talking about who Jesus

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S2: was going to be made these prophecies 700 years before

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S2: he was born. And then and then Jesus was born,

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S2: and he fulfilled them, and he fulfilled them. Exactly. And

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S2: and so looking at some of the historical stuff, that

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S2: was what really helped me understand that he existed. But

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S2: then after I knew he existed, I still hadn't surrendered

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S2: my life to him. And so then it was through

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S2: his conviction of me, through the Holy Spirit, that I

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S2: was a sinner and that I needed him. I needed

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S2: to follow him in order to experience eternal life. And

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S2: so it was the historical things that showed me he existed,

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S2: which is why I believed that. And then it was

447
00:22:24,670 --> 00:22:27,990
S2: my experience with him that brought me to follow him.

448
00:22:28,030 --> 00:22:31,270
S3: And that's awesome. You know, you think about a lot

449
00:22:31,310 --> 00:22:34,790
S3: of times what happens to young people raised in the

450
00:22:34,790 --> 00:22:38,710
S3: church is that they get to college, and that can

451
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:42,630
S3: become a very disorienting time for a young person.

452
00:22:42,670 --> 00:22:43,270
S2: Absolutely.

453
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:47,670
S3: Um, they've maybe been raised where they've only ever been

454
00:22:47,670 --> 00:22:53,110
S3: exposed to Christianity, and they may or may not have

455
00:22:53,109 --> 00:22:57,710
S3: ever actually even accepted Jesus for themself, but they would

456
00:22:57,710 --> 00:23:00,550
S3: consider themselves a Christian because that's just all they know. Sure.

457
00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:04,149
S3: And then they're thrown into an environment where depending on

458
00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:06,670
S3: where they go to school, but pretty much anywhere they're

459
00:23:06,670 --> 00:23:08,830
S3: going to be, their world all of a sudden, is

460
00:23:08,830 --> 00:23:11,470
S3: opened up to a lot of different types of people

461
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:14,800
S3: who believe a lot of different types of things, sometimes

462
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,840
S3: in an academic environment that can be hostile to the

463
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,520
S3: Christian faith. Not not always, but a lot of times.

464
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:27,320
S3: And all of a sudden they're forced to defend what

465
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,760
S3: they believe. Why are you a Christian? And for an

466
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,680
S3: 1819 year old who maybe hasn't given this thought, it

467
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,400
S3: can lead to some real heartache. Like why? Why do

468
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,560
S3: I believe this? And so you see many young people

469
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,200
S3: walking away. And we've talked about this on our show.

470
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,239
S3: Books have been written about it. So it's important to

471
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,680
S3: understand not just what we believe, but the why. And

472
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,960
S3: to help prepare our children to understand what they believe

473
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,679
S3: and why. Yeah, obviously, Carl talks a lot about the

474
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,480
S3: illusion of salvation. We have to know that we are

475
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:13,370
S3: in Christ for ourselves. We are not grandfathered in because

476
00:24:13,369 --> 00:24:15,530
S3: our parents are Christians, or because we were raised in

477
00:24:15,570 --> 00:24:18,290
S3: a Christian home. That does not make me a follower

478
00:24:18,290 --> 00:24:22,490
S3: of Jesus Christ. But then that next step is to understand, okay,

479
00:24:22,770 --> 00:24:26,730
S3: what is truth and how can I defend it when

480
00:24:26,770 --> 00:24:30,410
S3: someone else says, well, I am this religion or no

481
00:24:30,410 --> 00:24:33,810
S3: religion at all? You say you know truth. Well, I

482
00:24:33,850 --> 00:24:37,770
S3: say I have the truth. You ready for that conversation?

483
00:24:37,770 --> 00:24:39,850
S3: Coming up, we've got a special guest. You are going

484
00:24:39,850 --> 00:24:43,770
S3: to love him. He went on a journey many years

485
00:24:43,970 --> 00:24:47,129
S3: after being in a different faith of just trying to

486
00:24:47,170 --> 00:24:51,290
S3: really discover what is true. You're going to hear from

487
00:24:51,290 --> 00:24:52,010
S3: him coming up.

488
00:24:53,050 --> 00:24:57,490
S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew.

489
00:24:57,730 --> 00:25:01,810
S3: As a former journalist and someone who loves asking questions,

490
00:25:01,810 --> 00:25:03,810
S3: I saw a quote that I had not seen before.

491
00:25:03,810 --> 00:25:08,290
S3: But I love it. Questions don't need answers, but people do.

492
00:25:08,290 --> 00:25:11,820
S3: And they use questions to get them interesting, right? Yeah.

493
00:25:11,859 --> 00:25:15,060
S3: Questions don't need answers, but people do. I saw this

494
00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:17,700
S3: on the website of our guest, Abdu Murray, joining us

495
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:21,500
S3: right now, speaker, author, attorney who specializes in addressing issues

496
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:25,660
S3: where religious faith and emerging cultural trends intersect and collide.

497
00:25:25,820 --> 00:25:29,220
S3: You have a passion for helping people embrace the truth

498
00:25:29,220 --> 00:25:32,820
S3: by answering questions. Tell us a little bit about Embrace

499
00:25:32,820 --> 00:25:33,460
S3: the Truth.

500
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:38,020
S7: Embrace the truth is a apologetics based organization, and apologetics

501
00:25:38,020 --> 00:25:40,340
S7: is just a 50 cent word that basically means a

502
00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:42,740
S7: defense of the Christian faith. You find this in first

503
00:25:42,740 --> 00:25:47,260
S7: Peter 315, where we are commanded to always offer a defense,

504
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,300
S7: an apologia for the reasons, for the hope we have

505
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:52,939
S7: to anyone who asks, and do it with gentleness and

506
00:25:52,940 --> 00:25:56,139
S7: with respect. So we're all about offering the credibility of

507
00:25:56,140 --> 00:25:59,740
S7: the gospel to every questioner we encounter. And as you

508
00:25:59,740 --> 00:26:03,179
S7: mentioned from our website, we don't answer questions. We answer

509
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:06,100
S7: people because people do need answers and they use their

510
00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:08,640
S7: questions to get them. So we go on a university

511
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,280
S7: secular campuses. We do open forums there. We go to

512
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,360
S7: various places around the world business, government halls, that kind

513
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,080
S7: of thing, to the toughest places. In other words, where

514
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,560
S7: the Christian faith is often challenged. We like to go there. Yeah, so.

515
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,000
S7: And offer the credibility of the gospel.

516
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,520
S3: So before we get to some of these questions that

517
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,800
S3: I know come up in the course of conversation, but

518
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,879
S3: certainly at these Q&A forums, let's learn a little bit

519
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,040
S3: more about you. You are a former Muslim who converted

520
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,639
S3: to the Christian faith later in life. Tell us a

521
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:38,840
S3: little bit about your own story.

522
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,720
S7: Yeah. And that actually factors into why it's called Embrace

523
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,960
S7: the Truth because it's one thing to find the truth.

524
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,560
S7: It's another thing to embrace the truth, because there's always

525
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,560
S7: a cost to pay when you embrace it, because you

526
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,040
S7: can find it and then ignore it. Well, that kind

527
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,960
S7: of summarizes my story. I was a muslim who was

528
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,280
S7: pretty serious about Islam, and I wanted other people to

529
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,360
S7: believe it. I didn't believe in this whole idea of,

530
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,120
S7: you know, your religion is valid for you, and my

531
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,160
S7: religion is valid for me. And you know, your truth

532
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,199
S7: is your truth, and my truth is my truth. I

533
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,490
S7: wouldn't have any of that. truth is true, no matter

534
00:27:07,490 --> 00:27:09,650
S7: who believes it or who doesn't. It's just true. I

535
00:27:09,650 --> 00:27:11,810
S7: thought Islam was true, so I tried to knock the

536
00:27:11,810 --> 00:27:13,890
S7: faith out of Christians and they were low hanging fruit.

537
00:27:13,930 --> 00:27:15,609
S7: You know, for the most part, I grew up in

538
00:27:15,609 --> 00:27:18,810
S7: an area of southeast lower Michigan where most people were

539
00:27:18,810 --> 00:27:22,050
S7: Christian in name only. Uh, but it was fashionable in

540
00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:24,090
S7: the 80s and the 90s when I was growing up,

541
00:27:24,090 --> 00:27:25,730
S7: to say you were a Christian, even if you didn't

542
00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:27,609
S7: really mean it. So I would ask people, why are

543
00:27:27,609 --> 00:27:29,730
S7: you Christian? And they would say, I don't know, I'm

544
00:27:29,770 --> 00:27:32,250
S7: a Christian because I go to the Presbyterian Church on

545
00:27:32,250 --> 00:27:34,409
S7: Christmas and Easter. So I guess I'm a Christian and

546
00:27:34,410 --> 00:27:35,889
S7: I'm like, is that an answer or a question? I'm

547
00:27:35,890 --> 00:27:39,890
S7: not even sure, you know? Um, so, uh, I would say,

548
00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:41,610
S7: I'd say, have you thought this through at all? Are

549
00:27:41,609 --> 00:27:44,609
S7: you saying that tradition is your reason? And they would say, well, yeah.

550
00:27:44,609 --> 00:27:46,810
S7: What other reasons are there to believe things? I'm like, well,

551
00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:49,570
S7: there's plenty of reasons to disbelieve what you believe. And

552
00:27:49,570 --> 00:27:52,130
S7: I would go about disproving the Christian faith to these

553
00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:54,770
S7: people along the way. There were some Christians who knew

554
00:27:54,810 --> 00:27:57,169
S7: what they were talking about, and not only could they

555
00:27:57,170 --> 00:27:59,610
S7: respond to my objections, but they have some objections of

556
00:27:59,609 --> 00:28:02,530
S7: their own to my worldview that I had to contend with.

557
00:28:02,530 --> 00:28:05,619
S7: And as I was exploring this. I was trying to.

558
00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:07,379
S7: I was reading a Bible to try to knock the

559
00:28:07,380 --> 00:28:09,139
S7: faith out of these two guys who came to the

560
00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:11,060
S7: door of my apartment when I was at the University

561
00:28:11,060 --> 00:28:14,180
S7: of Michigan, and I came across a passage of the Bible,

562
00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:16,340
S7: which I was getting, I was trying to disprove. That

563
00:28:16,380 --> 00:28:18,580
S7: kind of rocked me. And it was Luke chapter three,

564
00:28:18,619 --> 00:28:21,500
S7: verses seven and following where John the Baptist says, do

565
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:24,500
S7: not even begin to think to yourself, you have Abraham

566
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:27,260
S7: as your father, as if that would save them from

567
00:28:27,260 --> 00:28:29,500
S7: God's wrath. For I tell you, God can raise up

568
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:32,820
S7: children of Abraham from the stones. Well, what that showed

569
00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:35,260
S7: me was that tradition doesn't, in fact save you. It

570
00:28:35,260 --> 00:28:37,460
S7: does not. God can make one just like you out

571
00:28:37,460 --> 00:28:39,940
S7: of a rock. Your heritage is an important. Well, I

572
00:28:39,940 --> 00:28:42,020
S7: was saying that to Christians, but I wasn't saying it

573
00:28:42,020 --> 00:28:45,140
S7: to myself. I didn't realize that the reason I was

574
00:28:45,140 --> 00:28:48,140
S7: a muslim was because of tradition. So that that started

575
00:28:48,140 --> 00:28:50,100
S7: a nine year journey where I began to look at

576
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:54,700
S7: the theological, philosophical and scientific underpinnings of various worldviews. And

577
00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:57,380
S7: I found that the Christian faith cohered in so many

578
00:28:57,380 --> 00:29:00,620
S7: ways to all those disciplines. And the Bible was speaking

579
00:29:00,620 --> 00:29:03,430
S7: to those things. Thousands of years before our best philosophers

580
00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:06,550
S7: and scientists were even thinking about them themselves. Wow. So

581
00:29:06,590 --> 00:29:08,950
S7: I saw the answers there, but I didn't want to

582
00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:12,270
S7: embrace them because of the cost involved. Mostly my identity

583
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:14,830
S7: as a muslim. But over the course of that nine years,

584
00:29:15,150 --> 00:29:17,870
S7: I found the truth within two years. But I had

585
00:29:17,870 --> 00:29:20,830
S7: to embrace the truth seven years later because it's one

586
00:29:20,830 --> 00:29:22,870
S7: thing to find it. It's another thing to embrace it

587
00:29:22,910 --> 00:29:25,430
S7: because the truth has consequences. But I did that, and

588
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:25,990
S7: here I am.

589
00:29:26,910 --> 00:29:30,390
S3: Abdu Murray, our guest right now, speaker. Author, attorney. He's

590
00:29:30,390 --> 00:29:34,190
S3: the president of Embrace the Truth, spent decades analyzing how

591
00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:38,550
S3: the major religious and non-religious thought traditions have emerged in

592
00:29:38,550 --> 00:29:42,469
S3: cultural issues. I'm really curious about that nine year journey,

593
00:29:42,510 --> 00:29:46,190
S3: because two years in, when you had to grapple with

594
00:29:46,510 --> 00:29:48,430
S3: this is the truth.

595
00:29:48,790 --> 00:29:49,230
S7: Yeah.

596
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:51,990
S3: What was the emotion there? I mean, on one hand,

597
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:55,070
S3: you've kind of gotten some answers, but was it fear?

598
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:58,070
S3: Was it kind of a despair of what do I

599
00:29:58,070 --> 00:30:00,920
S3: do now? What was your emotional state like two years

600
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,480
S3: in as you realize this.

601
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,440
S7: Yeah. It was well, discomfort was at first because a

602
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,280
S7: lot of these things became sort of an inconvenient truth,

603
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,400
S7: you know? Um, I didn't want to believe this Bible,

604
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,080
S7: but the Bible was showing itself to be true. And

605
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,280
S7: you think that when you find something true. Oh, my goodness,

606
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,840
S7: this is great. It's like finding a diamond in the

607
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,440
S7: middle of a field, you know? But the reality was

608
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,320
S7: there was a mix of a bunch of emotions. The

609
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,040
S7: first one was discomfort. Like, anytime your worldview is challenged,

610
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,840
S7: I don't care who you are, whether you're a muslim

611
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,440
S7: or a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Jew or

612
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,600
S7: an atheist, whatever it is, whatever your worldview is challenged.

613
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,760
S7: There's this initial discomfort because you don't want to be wrong,

614
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,520
S7: you want to be right, and you don't want to

615
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,880
S7: think that you've believed a lie for your whole life.

616
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,760
S7: So there's discomfort, but then it's followed up with fear

617
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,760
S7: and dread, because there is an identity shift that has

618
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,520
S7: to take place. And that's always tough. But there's also

619
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,719
S7: communal consequences. You know, someone once said that if you

620
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,160
S7: were to draw a diagram to understand religious identity, if

621
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,850
S7: you drew a diagram where you had a box with

622
00:30:58,850 --> 00:31:01,490
S7: a dot in the middle. In the west the box

623
00:31:01,490 --> 00:31:04,170
S7: is the individual and the dot in the middle is

624
00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:06,330
S7: religious identity. It's a very small part of who we

625
00:31:06,330 --> 00:31:09,770
S7: are in the West. In the East, it's exactly the opposite.

626
00:31:09,770 --> 00:31:11,930
S7: In the east and the Middle East, the box is

627
00:31:11,930 --> 00:31:15,010
S7: religious identity and the dot is you. In other words,

628
00:31:15,010 --> 00:31:19,410
S7: who you are religiously permeates everything in your life, from

629
00:31:19,410 --> 00:31:23,610
S7: family to politics to your finances. Everything. So when you

630
00:31:23,610 --> 00:31:27,170
S7: change your worldview, you're changing everything about you. So yeah,

631
00:31:27,170 --> 00:31:30,250
S7: the mindset was definitely. Boy, I hope this isn't true

632
00:31:30,250 --> 00:31:32,610
S7: because if it is, I have to have the intellectual

633
00:31:32,610 --> 00:31:36,610
S7: integrity to want to embrace it. And embracing it means

634
00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:39,770
S7: I can lose a lot. And the chief thing being

635
00:31:39,770 --> 00:31:42,130
S7: my identity. I liked being a muslim. I was proud

636
00:31:42,130 --> 00:31:44,170
S7: of being a muslim and this was calling me to

637
00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:45,130
S7: die to myself.

638
00:31:45,250 --> 00:31:49,130
S3: Wow. So seven years, a seven year process. Are there

639
00:31:49,130 --> 00:31:51,970
S3: moments that stand out from that journey?

640
00:31:52,530 --> 00:31:55,450
S7: Oh my goodness, how many? Um, I'll tell you, one

641
00:31:55,450 --> 00:31:58,270
S7: of the first ones was actually so the Quran, the

642
00:31:58,270 --> 00:32:02,110
S7: holy book of the Muslims. Muslims teach that the Bible

643
00:32:02,110 --> 00:32:05,430
S7: was once revealed by God, but was changed and corrupted

644
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:07,950
S7: over time, which is one of the reasons the Quran came.

645
00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:10,110
S7: But then when I was reading the Quran with this

646
00:32:10,150 --> 00:32:13,150
S7: sort of new mindset of finding out what's true, the

647
00:32:13,150 --> 00:32:16,710
S7: Quran actually references the Bible in glowing terms. So it's

648
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:19,110
S7: Muslims who teach it. But it isn't the Quran that

649
00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:21,510
S7: teaches the Bible's been changed. When I saw that that

650
00:32:21,510 --> 00:32:23,590
S7: was this weird aha moment where I was like, oh

651
00:32:23,630 --> 00:32:25,950
S7: my goodness, I should be reading this Bible. But then

652
00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:28,070
S7: I'm like, oh my goodness, I should be reading this Bible,

653
00:32:28,110 --> 00:32:31,070
S7: you know? So there's that. Um, but I'll tell you,

654
00:32:31,070 --> 00:32:33,590
S7: this is the standout moment for me. There is a

655
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:37,590
S7: phrase in Islam. It's very, very popular. It's Allahu akbar.

656
00:32:37,670 --> 00:32:39,670
S7: Everyone has heard this in the media. You know, usually

657
00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:42,270
S7: when you hear the phrase Allahu akbar, you know, something

658
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:44,870
S7: terrible has happened or is about to happen. But the

659
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:48,030
S7: reality is, Muslims say this phrase Allahu Akbar as a

660
00:32:48,030 --> 00:32:50,430
S7: prayer and a praise all the time. It literally means

661
00:32:50,430 --> 00:32:54,110
S7: God is greater. So the central idea from Islam is

662
00:32:54,110 --> 00:32:57,080
S7: that God is the greatest possible being. There can be

663
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,920
S7: no being who is greater in any way than God.

664
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:01,880
S7: But it occurred to me as I was studying this

665
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,840
S7: and at the tail end of that seven years, really

666
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,640
S7: the entirety of the nine years, I realized something that

667
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,480
S7: if I wanted to believe in a God who was

668
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,400
S7: truly great, as Islam commands that I do, then I

669
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,680
S7: have to realize that if God is the greatest possible being,

670
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,400
S7: then he would express the greatest possible virtue in the

671
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,960
S7: greatest possible way. That just stands to reason. But what

672
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,160
S7: is the greatest possible virtue? It's obviously love. And what

673
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,080
S7: is the greatest way to express the greatest possible virtue?

674
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,560
S7: It's obviously self-sacrifice. Islam knows nothing of self-sacrifice by God.

675
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,280
S7: But Christianity is all about that. That's the heart of

676
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,800
S7: the gospel message. So if God is the greatest being,

677
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,080
S7: he would express love in the greatest way. And that

678
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,960
S7: is self-sacrifice. That's exactly the cross. And I remember where

679
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,760
S7: I was when I read the words of Romans chapter five,

680
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,210
S7: verse eight, For God demonstrates his love for us, his

681
00:33:54,210 --> 00:33:57,410
S7: greatest possible love for us, in that while we were sinners,

682
00:33:57,410 --> 00:33:59,650
S7: not those who love God, but those who hate God.

683
00:33:59,970 --> 00:34:02,850
S7: Christ died for us. And I realized right then and

684
00:34:02,850 --> 00:34:06,209
S7: there sitting at this desk, oh my goodness. Everything I

685
00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:10,169
S7: was hoping was true in Islam is actually true in

686
00:34:10,170 --> 00:34:12,610
S7: the gospel message. And I'll never forget that day.

687
00:34:12,650 --> 00:34:15,450
S3: Wow. Abdu Murray, our guest right now, coming up, I

688
00:34:15,450 --> 00:34:18,850
S3: want to tackle a big question that comes up often.

689
00:34:18,850 --> 00:34:20,650
S3: And you've already touched on it a little bit, but

690
00:34:20,650 --> 00:34:24,770
S3: it's very common for people to say often upon finding

691
00:34:24,770 --> 00:34:27,210
S3: out that you're a Christian, it's great that you believe

692
00:34:27,210 --> 00:34:30,170
S3: in something. It's great that you've found something that works

693
00:34:30,170 --> 00:34:32,810
S3: for you. And then some version of I mean, I

694
00:34:32,850 --> 00:34:35,570
S3: think all paths sort of lead to the same place.

695
00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:38,810
S3: Don't most religions pretty much teach the same thing? As

696
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:41,930
S3: long as you believe in something, Abdu Murray is going

697
00:34:41,930 --> 00:34:43,210
S3: to answer that one coming up.

698
00:34:44,410 --> 00:34:47,570
S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl

699
00:34:47,570 --> 00:34:49,810
S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.

700
00:34:49,850 --> 00:34:52,940
S3: I'm sure you've heard someone say some version of this.

701
00:34:53,580 --> 00:34:57,060
S3: As long as you believe in something or don't. Most

702
00:34:57,100 --> 00:35:00,740
S3: religions pretty much teach the same thing. Our guest, Abdu

703
00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:04,500
S3: Murray is going to tackle this one. I'm excited about this. Speaker. Author. Attorney.

704
00:35:04,540 --> 00:35:08,100
S3: He's the president of Embrace the Truth. This is one

705
00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:10,779
S3: of the most common things. Just speaking about my own

706
00:35:10,780 --> 00:35:14,700
S3: life that I encounter is not direct opposition to my

707
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:18,700
S3: Christian faith, but it's people going, that's great. You believe

708
00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:22,620
S3: in something, you've found something that works for you. How

709
00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:26,819
S3: do you tell someone who gets that as a response?

710
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:29,940
S3: What do we say? What's the best way to lovingly

711
00:35:29,940 --> 00:35:33,220
S3: refute that? No, it's not as long as you find something.

712
00:35:33,219 --> 00:35:34,540
S3: Your truth. My truth?

713
00:35:34,820 --> 00:35:37,060
S7: Right. Yeah. There's a couple of things. There's the logical

714
00:35:37,060 --> 00:35:39,140
S7: way to talk about this and say, well, what if

715
00:35:39,140 --> 00:35:41,219
S7: my truth is that there is no other truth other

716
00:35:41,219 --> 00:35:44,660
S7: than the gospel truth? Now what? That is my truth. Now,

717
00:35:44,660 --> 00:35:46,700
S7: what are you going to do with that? Um, because

718
00:35:46,739 --> 00:35:49,550
S7: it's self-refuting. You know, when you say all truth is relative,

719
00:35:49,590 --> 00:35:52,950
S7: but that statement has to be absolute, not relative for

720
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:54,989
S7: it to be true. And now you've already stepped into

721
00:35:54,989 --> 00:35:58,589
S7: the fact that truth, by definition is exclusive. It excludes

722
00:35:58,590 --> 00:36:00,750
S7: the opposite of what it's saying. So there's no way

723
00:36:00,750 --> 00:36:02,750
S7: around that. So that's more of a gotcha way to

724
00:36:02,750 --> 00:36:04,110
S7: do it. There's another way to do it is to

725
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:06,870
S7: simply quote Jesus and say, Jesus says that no one

726
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:08,830
S7: comes to the father but by him, that he is

727
00:36:08,830 --> 00:36:10,950
S7: the way, the truth, and the life. Now, you can

728
00:36:10,950 --> 00:36:13,510
S7: disagree with it, but you can't say that he didn't

729
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:15,750
S7: say it. So there's another way to do it. I

730
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:19,670
S7: think the most impactful way to start off the conversation

731
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:25,230
S7: is to actually explode the disrespect, actually, in the statement

732
00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:27,629
S7: that all paths lead to God. You know, we hear

733
00:36:27,630 --> 00:36:30,310
S7: this phrase, all paths lead to God. And that's sort

734
00:36:30,310 --> 00:36:33,590
S7: of considered to be, you know, tolerant and very respectful.

735
00:36:33,790 --> 00:36:37,750
S7: But the reality is it's incredibly disrespectful. Here's why not

736
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:40,910
S7: all paths even claim to lead to God. If you

737
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:43,230
S7: were to look at Buddhism, for example, as the Buddha

738
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:46,150
S7: actually taught it, he didn't teach that there was a God.

739
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:48,319
S7: He taught that there wasn't even a self, that there

740
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,000
S7: was no such thing as a personal self. All you

741
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,880
S7: and I are is the accretion of karma from previous lives,

742
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,279
S7: and the goal of life is to work off your

743
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,040
S7: karma through the various incarnations and reincarnations of our lives,

744
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,520
S7: until we become extinct, until we become extinguished. Like the

745
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,359
S7: flame of a candle, we're just snuffed out. That's the

746
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,400
S7: goal of life. That is in complete distinction to Hinduism,

747
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,279
S7: which Buddha was. He was a Hindu which teaches that

748
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,520
S7: the self is real and the self is God. You

749
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,960
S7: see how those two things both can't be true, right?

750
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,320
S7: Because they fundamentally disagree. And to say to a Buddhist

751
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,920
S7: that you believe basically the same thing as a Hindu

752
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,799
S7: is to insult thousands of years of Buddhist tradition and

753
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,080
S7: to insult thousands of years of Hindu tradition. As a Christian,

754
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,879
S7: I believe that God is one in his essence and

755
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,720
S7: three in his persons. That's a Trinitarian view in Islam

756
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,300
S7: that's considered blasphemy. So I would be disrespectful to a muslim.

757
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:48,340
S7: If I said you and I basically believe the same thing,

758
00:37:48,340 --> 00:37:51,860
S7: because I'm taking 1400 years of Islamic theology and saying

759
00:37:51,860 --> 00:37:56,259
S7: that doesn't matter. That's incredibly disrespectful. So in an effort

760
00:37:56,260 --> 00:37:59,380
S7: to engage in this conversation, I think if we point

761
00:37:59,380 --> 00:38:01,700
S7: out these kind of differences, we can give people what

762
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:04,740
S7: I call the dignity of difference. In other words, I

763
00:38:04,739 --> 00:38:08,180
S7: take your worldview so seriously that I'm not willing to

764
00:38:08,219 --> 00:38:11,180
S7: gloss over the differences. I want to engage with you

765
00:38:11,180 --> 00:38:13,859
S7: on the differences. I want to talk about not only

766
00:38:13,860 --> 00:38:16,700
S7: the similarities, and there are some, but the differences, because

767
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:19,140
S7: the differences do make a difference. If there were no differences,

768
00:38:19,140 --> 00:38:21,979
S7: there'd be no need for an Islam or Judaism or

769
00:38:21,980 --> 00:38:26,299
S7: Christianity or Buddhism, or Zen Buddhism or Taoism or all

770
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:29,100
S7: these other isms and schisms. So to say that all

771
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:32,780
S7: paths lead to God sounds respectful, but it's actually disrespectful.

772
00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:37,460
S3: Yeah. And, you know, every world religion has to account

773
00:38:37,460 --> 00:38:42,900
S3: for Jesus because of the historical evidence of his existence,

774
00:38:42,900 --> 00:38:46,590
S3: the fact that yes, he actually walked the earth, but

775
00:38:46,590 --> 00:38:50,990
S3: vastly different ways of kind of weaving him into the story.

776
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:53,990
S3: Can you talk about that a little bit? Because really,

777
00:38:53,989 --> 00:38:57,390
S3: that's where it hinges is. What does the religion that

778
00:38:57,390 --> 00:39:00,110
S3: you follow say about Jesus?

779
00:39:00,270 --> 00:39:02,830
S7: Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you said this too. So

780
00:39:02,830 --> 00:39:05,069
S7: I have a book called Grand Central Question, where I

781
00:39:05,070 --> 00:39:07,149
S7: take a look at the various worldviews that are out there.

782
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:10,629
S7: The main umbrella worldviews like a secular humanism, the pantheistic

783
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:14,510
S7: worldviews of the East and their Western sort of iterations,

784
00:39:14,670 --> 00:39:18,390
S7: and the monotheisms of the Middle East, including and especially Islam.

785
00:39:18,670 --> 00:39:21,790
S7: And what I've come to understand and discover is that

786
00:39:21,790 --> 00:39:23,870
S7: you study these different religions, is that everyone has a

787
00:39:23,870 --> 00:39:27,550
S7: view on Jesus. Even atheists have a fairly positive view

788
00:39:27,550 --> 00:39:29,549
S7: on Jesus. You know, they think he's a sort of

789
00:39:29,590 --> 00:39:33,430
S7: a radical, you know, social reformer. Hindus would say that

790
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:37,670
S7: Jesus is a possibly an incarnation of Vishnu and an

791
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:41,640
S7: incredibly wise sage. The Buddhists would say he's like Bodhisattva.

792
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,440
S7: He's enlightened almost to the point of being as enlightened

793
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,200
S7: as the Buddha himself. And of course, Islam teaches that

794
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,399
S7: Jesus is a virgin born prophet. But not more than that.

795
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,480
S7: He's only a man. He's not more than a man,

796
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,640
S7: but he is in fact a divinely inspired and guided prophet.

797
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,480
S7: What I want you to notice, and I think people

798
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,000
S7: should notice, is that for whatever reason, the person of

799
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,839
S7: Jesus has a central view in almost every other worldview

800
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,120
S7: and almost every other person's psyche. He comes up. There's

801
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,480
S7: something about this man. Now, what ends up happening, though,

802
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,960
S7: is that though Jesus is the sun around which all

803
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,000
S7: other worldviews seem to orbit because everyone wants a piece

804
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,920
S7: of Jesus, they denude him of his cross. They take

805
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,239
S7: away the central reason he came not just to teach

806
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,160
S7: some really incredible things that were world changing. He did,

807
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,959
S7: in fact do that. But for this reason I have come,

808
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,239
S7: he says, to give my life as a ransom for many.

809
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,359
S7: That wasn't just to say some beautiful words, but to

810
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,410
S7: do a beautiful act. And so in Islam, he doesn't

811
00:40:41,410 --> 00:40:44,050
S7: die at a cross, he doesn't rise from the dead.

812
00:40:44,090 --> 00:40:47,770
S7: That's a historical inaccuracy in Hinduism that if he did

813
00:40:47,770 --> 00:40:49,730
S7: die on a cross and rise from the dead, it's

814
00:40:49,730 --> 00:40:52,530
S7: not an evidence of his being the one and only

815
00:40:52,770 --> 00:40:55,130
S7: you know, Son of God. And in atheism, there are

816
00:40:55,130 --> 00:40:57,530
S7: no miracles. So he couldn't possibly have risen from the dead.

817
00:40:57,850 --> 00:41:00,569
S7: Every one of these views that respects Jesus in some

818
00:41:00,570 --> 00:41:03,770
S7: ways rob him of the central purpose for which he came.

819
00:41:03,770 --> 00:41:07,610
S7: And to quote Samuel Zwemer, who said this so beautifully,

820
00:41:07,610 --> 00:41:11,370
S7: he says, other worldviews are a lot like Judas Iscariot.

821
00:41:11,410 --> 00:41:13,850
S7: They betray the Son of Man with a kiss. Wow.

822
00:41:13,890 --> 00:41:15,690
S7: They say we love him, but they take away the

823
00:41:15,690 --> 00:41:16,850
S7: central reason he came.

824
00:41:17,050 --> 00:41:20,690
S3: Wow. Abdu Murray, our guest. Right now. You're going to

825
00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:24,050
S3: want more. I know he mentioned this book. Grand central question.

826
00:41:24,090 --> 00:41:26,690
S3: You can also get to his website where a lot

827
00:41:26,690 --> 00:41:29,410
S3: of these questions are covered. He's got a cool video

828
00:41:29,410 --> 00:41:32,770
S3: series where these top 20 questions that are often asked,

829
00:41:32,969 --> 00:41:35,930
S3: a short video on each one just text embrace to

830
00:41:36,260 --> 00:41:45,140
S3: Hundred 555 7898. Text embrace two 800 555 7898 800

831
00:41:45,140 --> 00:41:47,620
S3: 555 7898.

832
00:41:47,980 --> 00:41:51,060
S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stand for anything you

833
00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:55,300
S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's

834
00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:57,500
S1: curl and crew on Moody Radio.

835
00:41:57,940 --> 00:41:59,540
S8: The idea of giftedness.

836
00:41:59,540 --> 00:42:01,779
S3: We're going to talk about that this morning with a

837
00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:04,620
S3: special guest. I'm really excited about this. He is the

838
00:42:04,620 --> 00:42:09,419
S3: president of the Giftedness Center. And it's not what you

839
00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:11,379
S3: think it is, but he's going to be with us

840
00:42:11,380 --> 00:42:13,500
S3: this morning, and we're going to talk about how to

841
00:42:13,540 --> 00:42:17,140
S3: discover your giftedness. This whole week is going to be

842
00:42:17,140 --> 00:42:21,660
S3: all about discerning God's will for your life decision making.

843
00:42:21,820 --> 00:42:24,180
S3: That actually popped up quite a few times when we

844
00:42:24,180 --> 00:42:26,419
S3: asked you about a week ago. Hey, what are some

845
00:42:26,460 --> 00:42:29,740
S3: topics that you'd love for us to talk about? This

846
00:42:29,739 --> 00:42:32,060
S3: one came up a lot, and this actually was what

847
00:42:32,060 --> 00:42:35,390
S3: I had planned to do even before taking that survey,

848
00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:38,029
S3: so it was cool to see how God already knew.

849
00:42:38,030 --> 00:42:40,390
S3: So if you have been, maybe you have a decision

850
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:42,989
S3: that you are facing even right now and you're going,

851
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:44,989
S3: how do I figure out what God wants me to

852
00:42:44,989 --> 00:42:47,149
S3: do here? I think this week is going to be

853
00:42:47,150 --> 00:42:48,710
S3: especially encouraging to you.

854
00:42:49,310 --> 00:42:53,310
S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl

855
00:42:53,310 --> 00:42:53,870
S1: and crew.

856
00:42:54,110 --> 00:42:56,670
S3: Hey, I'm Allie, this is Carl and crew. Have you

857
00:42:56,670 --> 00:43:00,469
S3: ever been told that you were gifted when you were

858
00:43:00,469 --> 00:43:03,350
S3: a kid? Maybe you got put in a a program

859
00:43:03,350 --> 00:43:05,430
S3: for gifted kids, and I'm using that kind of an

860
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:08,750
S3: air quotes because I'm not really sure. Always the parameters

861
00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:12,110
S3: that are used. Um, sometimes test taking, sometimes a teacher

862
00:43:12,110 --> 00:43:14,830
S3: just identifies a kid as a, you know, has some

863
00:43:14,830 --> 00:43:18,110
S3: unique gifts or talents. But I think what can happen

864
00:43:18,110 --> 00:43:21,870
S3: is unintentionally, we start to have a belief system that

865
00:43:21,870 --> 00:43:26,350
S3: says I'm either gifted, i.e. sort of special.

866
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:26,950
S4: Right.

867
00:43:27,070 --> 00:43:30,509
S3: Or I'm not. I'm just kind of ordinary. But what

868
00:43:30,510 --> 00:43:33,890
S3: if it was possible for you to discover your giftedness.

869
00:43:33,890 --> 00:43:37,090
S3: Regardless of if anyone's ever told you you were gifted

870
00:43:37,090 --> 00:43:40,009
S3: or not. Bill Hendricks, joining us right now, president of

871
00:43:40,010 --> 00:43:44,050
S3: the Giftedness Center. This grew out of your consulting practice

872
00:43:44,050 --> 00:43:46,649
S3: that you founded in 1985. For the last 20 years,

873
00:43:46,650 --> 00:43:49,890
S3: you've been helping people make life and career decisions based

874
00:43:49,890 --> 00:43:52,170
S3: on their giftedness. Bill, glad to have you with us

875
00:43:52,170 --> 00:43:56,009
S3: this morning. First question is everyone gifted or is there

876
00:43:56,010 --> 00:43:59,330
S3: a special category of people like there was in elementary school?

877
00:43:59,370 --> 00:44:02,930
S9: No, everybody's gifted in the sense that God has designed

878
00:44:02,930 --> 00:44:06,450
S9: every person to do a particular thing, and that's what

879
00:44:06,450 --> 00:44:08,650
S9: we call their giftedness, what you're born to do.

880
00:44:09,370 --> 00:44:11,970
S3: So tell me a little bit about the giftedness center.

881
00:44:11,969 --> 00:44:15,050
S3: I am just became aware of it in the last

882
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:18,250
S3: two weeks as I was prepping for this show. Tell

883
00:44:18,250 --> 00:44:19,650
S3: me about what you do.

884
00:44:20,330 --> 00:44:22,169
S9: Well, I have the coolest job in the world. I

885
00:44:22,170 --> 00:44:25,130
S9: get to listen to people tell me stories from their

886
00:44:25,130 --> 00:44:29,009
S9: life about activities they've done, that they've enjoyed doing, and

887
00:44:29,010 --> 00:44:32,980
S9: feel like they accomplished something. Get about six, eight, ten

888
00:44:32,980 --> 00:44:35,700
S9: of those stories and all the detail of what they

889
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:38,380
S9: did and how they did it. And then out of

890
00:44:38,380 --> 00:44:42,020
S9: those stories, we can show them a very consistent way

891
00:44:42,020 --> 00:44:47,500
S9: of relating to the world and dealing with, uh, life

892
00:44:47,940 --> 00:44:51,259
S9: that's unique to them. Maybe it's solving problems, maybe it's

893
00:44:51,260 --> 00:44:56,340
S9: meeting challenges, maybe it's reaching goals. Maybe it's understanding something

894
00:44:56,380 --> 00:44:59,540
S9: at a very deep level. Everybody has a unique pattern,

895
00:44:59,540 --> 00:45:02,180
S9: and I get to show them what that is. And

896
00:45:02,180 --> 00:45:06,660
S9: that has very significant implications for their life and career directions.

897
00:45:06,739 --> 00:45:11,500
S3: Mm. Now, when you say a pattern, is that just unintentionally,

898
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:14,339
S3: things that we've found ourselves involved in or things that

899
00:45:14,340 --> 00:45:17,580
S3: we've accomplished. You're seeing a pattern there. Or explain that

900
00:45:17,580 --> 00:45:18,500
S3: a little bit more for me.

901
00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:22,980
S9: If this is a combination of ability as well as motivation.

902
00:45:23,219 --> 00:45:26,500
S9: Somebody has an ability to do something, but they're also

903
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:30,830
S9: motivated to behave that way. Giftedness is a pattern of behavior.

904
00:45:30,830 --> 00:45:34,190
S9: This is not a psychological thing. It's a behavioral and

905
00:45:34,190 --> 00:45:38,630
S9: motivational thing. Um, and it it yes, it comes without

906
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:42,790
S9: people even thinking about it because it's so natural and instinctive.

907
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:45,790
S9: The person who just loves to be part of a team,

908
00:45:45,790 --> 00:45:48,910
S9: they don't think about that. They just keep finding themselves

909
00:45:48,910 --> 00:45:51,510
S9: in the middle of a team because that's that makes

910
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:52,710
S9: the most sense to them.

911
00:45:53,070 --> 00:45:56,710
S3: Bill Hendricks, our guest right now, president of the Giftedness Center,

912
00:45:56,910 --> 00:46:00,870
S3: he is holds degrees from Harvard University, Boston University, and

913
00:46:00,870 --> 00:46:04,550
S3: Dallas Theological Seminary. You know, when people think about what

914
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:08,510
S3: is God's will for my life, how much should giftedness

915
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:12,190
S3: factor into really knowing how God's wired you and what

916
00:46:12,190 --> 00:46:13,590
S3: he's gifted you to do?

917
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:16,430
S9: Well, it really stands right in the center of that.

918
00:46:16,469 --> 00:46:19,029
S9: I'm not saying it's the only thing involved, but think

919
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:21,710
S9: of it this way, Ali. Um, you know what is

920
00:46:21,710 --> 00:46:24,390
S9: a hammer designed to do? A hammer is designed to

921
00:46:24,430 --> 00:46:28,479
S9: bring blunt force down on things, and that's what it's

922
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,920
S9: going to do because that's what it was designed to do.

923
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,520
S9: It cannot not do that. And you can see it's

924
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,040
S9: pretty important then that the hammer know that it's a

925
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,600
S9: hammer or help us help them discover that, because otherwise

926
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,040
S9: they're going to bring blunt force down on furniture or

927
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,200
S9: windshields or people's heads, and they can do a lot

928
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,000
S9: of damage. But if they know what they're designed to do,

929
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,880
S9: they can look for nails and they'll be great at

930
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:54,760
S9: it every time.

931
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,160
S3: Where do we see this in Scripture? I mean, we

932
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,080
S3: we could talk about spiritual gifts. We could talk about,

933
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,359
S3: you know, that they're good works prepared in advance for

934
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,600
S3: us to do. Where do you what give me the

935
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,600
S3: kind of the mission statement where you ground this biblically.

936
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,239
S9: Well, one of them you just mentioned, Ephesians 210. We

937
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,240
S9: are God's workmanship, which means he's made thing, his crafted thing.

938
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,120
S9: And the workmanship is for specific good works. Another place

939
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,560
S9: is right out of Genesis 128, which is the, uh,

940
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,729
S9: what we call the creation mandate. Be fruitful. Multiply. Fill

941
00:47:28,730 --> 00:47:31,530
S9: the Earth. Rule over it. And it turns out that

942
00:47:31,890 --> 00:47:36,570
S9: giftedness is a phenomenon that we can discover. And every

943
00:47:36,570 --> 00:47:40,330
S9: human being, uh, is given some means by which to

944
00:47:40,370 --> 00:47:44,370
S9: make the world fruitful. Um, and so God not only

945
00:47:44,570 --> 00:47:48,210
S9: blessed Adam and Eve, but that blessing actually imparted to

946
00:47:48,250 --> 00:47:52,969
S9: them and to their their descendants abilities, gifts, as we

947
00:47:52,969 --> 00:47:55,930
S9: would call them, to actually make the world flourish. And

948
00:47:55,930 --> 00:47:58,130
S9: so each one of us has been given something by

949
00:47:58,130 --> 00:48:00,690
S9: God with which to cause the world and its people

950
00:48:00,690 --> 00:48:01,690
S9: to flourish.

951
00:48:02,010 --> 00:48:04,489
S3: Bill Hendricks, our guest right now, coming up, let's talk

952
00:48:04,489 --> 00:48:06,650
S3: through a little bit more what this looks like for you.

953
00:48:06,690 --> 00:48:09,010
S3: How do you know if it's time to make a

954
00:48:09,050 --> 00:48:12,610
S3: job pivot? Or maybe you feel like you're just getting started.

955
00:48:12,610 --> 00:48:16,410
S3: You're lacking direction. What should I really be doing with

956
00:48:16,410 --> 00:48:19,210
S3: my life? How can we begin to unpack those questions

957
00:48:19,210 --> 00:48:22,530
S3: by looking at our giftedness? More with Bill Hendricks coming up.

958
00:48:22,969 --> 00:48:27,660
S1: She's a choreographer extraordinaire and everything is Greek to her.

959
00:48:27,980 --> 00:48:31,740
S1: Super di is in the crew. It's Carl and crew

960
00:48:31,780 --> 00:48:33,140
S1: on Moody Radio.

961
00:48:33,180 --> 00:48:35,460
S3: You know, you may have wrestled with sort of this

962
00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:38,940
S3: underlying question of what am I supposed to be doing

963
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:41,780
S3: with my life? Like, what is God's will for my life?

964
00:48:41,820 --> 00:48:44,380
S3: What am I supposed to be pursuing? Knowing that there's

965
00:48:44,380 --> 00:48:47,580
S3: a limited amount of hours in a day, years in

966
00:48:47,580 --> 00:48:51,140
S3: your life, how should I invest and spend them? Bill Hendrix,

967
00:48:51,140 --> 00:48:54,300
S3: president of the Gifted Center. You have been helping people

968
00:48:54,300 --> 00:48:57,580
S3: answer this question for a lot of years. What are

969
00:48:57,580 --> 00:49:00,219
S3: some of the big things that you've learned that don't

970
00:49:00,219 --> 00:49:02,700
S3: work when it comes to trying to figure out, what

971
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:04,299
S3: am I supposed to be doing?

972
00:49:04,620 --> 00:49:07,700
S9: Well, one thing that many, many, many younger people do

973
00:49:07,739 --> 00:49:10,219
S9: when they're they hate their job and they're trying to

974
00:49:10,219 --> 00:49:12,299
S9: figure out what to do, is they pay a lot

975
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:15,580
S9: of tuition and go back to school, assuming that that

976
00:49:15,580 --> 00:49:17,980
S9: somehow is going to help them figure it out. And

977
00:49:17,980 --> 00:49:23,600
S9: that's a very expensive way. That doesn't doesn't always work. Uh,

978
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,960
S9: you need to figure. Figure that out before you go

979
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,040
S9: spend that tuition.

980
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,000
S3: What about following your passion or kind of your. What

981
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,399
S3: drives you? Is that a good framework for finding your giftedness?

982
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,960
S9: Well, the answer is yes and no. The no part

983
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,840
S9: is that passion is kind of a red herring. Passion

984
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,239
S9: is an emotion. Some people are passionate about everything. You know,

985
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,960
S9: they they love. They're passionate about their marriage. They're passionate

986
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,680
S9: about their their, uh, hobbies. They're passionate about chocolate. I mean,

987
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,840
S9: they're passionate about everything. And other people, they don't exhibit

988
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,480
S9: much passion at all. They I've had people call me

989
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,080
S9: and say, I don't know what my passion is, but

990
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,120
S9: I work with the area we call motivation. Everybody has

991
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,840
S9: some form of motivation, which goes back to the idea

992
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,040
S9: of giftedness. There's something that you keep coming back to

993
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,319
S9: that your energy inclines toward. And in that sense, the

994
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,850
S9: answer is yes. You should pay attention to what kinds

995
00:50:21,850 --> 00:50:25,330
S9: of activities. Keep drawing me back. And I'm not talking

996
00:50:25,330 --> 00:50:29,530
S9: about unhealthy or addictive activities. I'm talking about life giving

997
00:50:29,530 --> 00:50:34,529
S9: activities like you. You find yourself exploring ideas, or you

998
00:50:34,530 --> 00:50:39,370
S9: find yourself writing stories, or you find yourself loving to

999
00:50:39,410 --> 00:50:42,250
S9: listen to people and help them. Those are the kind

1000
00:50:42,250 --> 00:50:45,649
S9: of activities your energy keeps pulling you back toward. That

1001
00:50:45,650 --> 00:50:48,250
S9: would be a clue that there's something there that's grabbing

1002
00:50:48,250 --> 00:50:49,489
S9: hold of your giftedness.

1003
00:50:49,850 --> 00:50:51,689
S3: And then what do you do with that? If you

1004
00:50:51,690 --> 00:50:54,130
S3: begin to see a pattern as you look through some

1005
00:50:54,130 --> 00:50:56,969
S3: of the stories of the things you've done in your life,

1006
00:50:57,090 --> 00:50:58,530
S3: what do you do with that?

1007
00:50:59,210 --> 00:51:01,810
S9: Well, it's a bit of a brainstorm exercise. At that point,

1008
00:51:01,810 --> 00:51:06,290
S9: you begin to think meaningfully, and I would suggest enlisting

1009
00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:09,290
S9: a partner or two to do this. What are the

1010
00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:12,609
S9: kinds of work in the world that would make good

1011
00:51:12,610 --> 00:51:16,209
S9: use of that energy? In other words, uh, you know,

1012
00:51:16,250 --> 00:51:20,299
S9: if you're a person who loves to solve problems, well,

1013
00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:23,300
S9: what kinds of problems and what kinds of work are

1014
00:51:23,660 --> 00:51:27,340
S9: are related to the kinds of problems that you particularly

1015
00:51:27,340 --> 00:51:30,299
S9: like to work on? It could be research, but it

1016
00:51:30,300 --> 00:51:36,660
S9: also could be investigative activities. It could be, uh, biological research. It.

1017
00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:40,420
S9: I mean, there's all kinds of things that are problem solving, but, uh,

1018
00:51:40,580 --> 00:51:42,700
S9: you need to sort of do a little more exploration

1019
00:51:42,700 --> 00:51:46,460
S9: of your own, what I call your giftedness. This pattern

1020
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:49,700
S9: of behavior to to get a little more specific and then,

1021
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:52,419
S9: if possible, to think about, well, where might I use

1022
00:51:52,420 --> 00:51:55,780
S9: that in the workplace? That's not always possible. Not everybody

1023
00:51:55,780 --> 00:51:56,620
S9: has options.

1024
00:51:57,340 --> 00:52:00,660
S3: Give me a story, Bill, of how you've seen this

1025
00:52:00,700 --> 00:52:03,819
S3: in in in your work where somebody come to you,

1026
00:52:03,860 --> 00:52:08,980
S3: maybe they're in the wrong job or the wrong ministry

1027
00:52:08,980 --> 00:52:11,260
S3: or volunteer activity. Give me a story.

1028
00:52:11,620 --> 00:52:14,820
S9: Well, I had a gentleman, uh, come to me once.

1029
00:52:14,820 --> 00:52:18,030
S9: He was an accountant. And, you know, the world needs accountants.

1030
00:52:18,030 --> 00:52:21,750
S9: But that was not his gift. And when I showed

1031
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:24,750
S9: him this pattern, the first thing I said is, you know, Tom,

1032
00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:27,590
S9: the stage lost a great talent the day you decided

1033
00:52:27,590 --> 00:52:31,590
S9: to go into accounting. And he he literally teared up.

1034
00:52:31,630 --> 00:52:34,230
S9: And I I'm sorry. I didn't mean to upset you.

1035
00:52:34,510 --> 00:52:36,310
S9: I said, no, no, you don't understand. When I was

1036
00:52:36,310 --> 00:52:38,590
S9: in college, I was going to be a theater major.

1037
00:52:38,910 --> 00:52:41,910
S9: But his dad, who I think was a banker or something, said, son,

1038
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:44,430
S9: you'll never make a living doing that. You took a

1039
00:52:44,430 --> 00:52:47,390
S9: test that said you're good with numbers. Go into accounting,

1040
00:52:47,390 --> 00:52:49,469
S9: you'll never be out of a job. That's what he

1041
00:52:49,469 --> 00:52:53,510
S9: did for 25 years. That's what he did. And, you know,

1042
00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:56,190
S9: he he was okay at a good work ethic, but

1043
00:52:56,190 --> 00:53:00,390
S9: his soul was shriveling up. And I said, look, you know,

1044
00:53:00,430 --> 00:53:02,950
S9: I understand you can't just quit your job tomorrow, but

1045
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:07,030
S9: you've got to express this gift somewhere. So he hunted

1046
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:10,549
S9: around and eventually ended up with community theater. And to

1047
00:53:10,590 --> 00:53:15,200
S9: this day now it's probably been about 15 years. He's

1048
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,400
S9: he keeps doing accounting because he's got to pay the bills,

1049
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,560
S9: but he gains so much joy and energy out of

1050
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,760
S9: being with the other players in the troupe that that

1051
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,400
S9: is this community theater. And here's here's the catch, Ali,

1052
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,040
S9: he wrote me an email one day and said, I've

1053
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,759
S9: discovered why God gave me this gift. Not that I

1054
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,319
S9: would end up in Hollywood, but I've discovered I'm the

1055
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,720
S9: only person that most of these other actors and actresses.

1056
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,200
S9: I'm the only person who knows Jesus and and they

1057
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,279
S9: ask me to pray for them and they talk to

1058
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,120
S9: me about their spiritual needs.

1059
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,040
S3: You know, I love that because that was where I

1060
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,520
S3: was going next. I mean, it's great to find out

1061
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,719
S3: how you're wired. Most people love to take kind of

1062
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,920
S3: those personality tests and to find out what makes me unique.

1063
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,879
S3: But ultimately, we are called to build the kingdom. So

1064
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:11,000
S3: how does discovering our giftedness help build the kingdom?

1065
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,250
S9: Well, it helps in two ways. First of all, when

1066
00:54:14,250 --> 00:54:16,609
S9: we talk about building the kingdom, we have to go

1067
00:54:16,610 --> 00:54:20,609
S9: back to that creation mandate. Genesis 128 caused the world

1068
00:54:20,610 --> 00:54:23,530
S9: and its people to flourish. You know, that's still in effect,

1069
00:54:23,530 --> 00:54:26,170
S9: and God wants us to use our work, given the

1070
00:54:26,170 --> 00:54:28,729
S9: fact that it's a fallen world, I get that. But

1071
00:54:28,730 --> 00:54:32,570
S9: whatever we can do to make the world better, uh,

1072
00:54:32,570 --> 00:54:35,770
S9: in some way, shape or form through our work, uh,

1073
00:54:35,770 --> 00:54:40,250
S9: and giftedness is a great place and way to do that. But,

1074
00:54:40,290 --> 00:54:42,530
S9: you know, many people, as I said, in the world,

1075
00:54:42,530 --> 00:54:45,529
S9: don't have that option. They're in jobs that, frankly, they

1076
00:54:45,530 --> 00:54:48,609
S9: didn't ask for and they don't have much choice. The

1077
00:54:48,610 --> 00:54:51,090
S9: rice farmer in North Korea doesn't have a choice about

1078
00:54:51,090 --> 00:54:55,050
S9: what he's doing every day. Even so, they have giftedness

1079
00:54:55,250 --> 00:54:58,529
S9: and somewhere outside of work, or even as they go

1080
00:54:58,530 --> 00:55:02,410
S9: to work, they can still express that gift in some way.

1081
00:55:02,770 --> 00:55:07,170
S9: So even the person who's in a job, a bad job, fit. Um,

1082
00:55:07,210 --> 00:55:10,149
S9: it's not using their gifts. They have that gift and

1083
00:55:10,150 --> 00:55:13,270
S9: they can still find creative ways, even at work or

1084
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:16,310
S9: outside of work, to express that. As I say, the

1085
00:55:16,310 --> 00:55:19,390
S9: problem solver may not be able to solve problems. They're

1086
00:55:19,630 --> 00:55:23,350
S9: mopping floors, not much problem solving to deal with their.

1087
00:55:23,790 --> 00:55:28,029
S9: And yet even in work, they run into problems at

1088
00:55:28,030 --> 00:55:31,110
S9: work and they go to work on trying to fix

1089
00:55:31,110 --> 00:55:33,510
S9: those because that's who they are, that's what they do.

1090
00:55:33,550 --> 00:55:38,350
S9: And by doing that, they bring an aroma of the kingdom.

1091
00:55:38,950 --> 00:55:42,109
S9: And and, you know, Christ's love for the other people,

1092
00:55:42,510 --> 00:55:45,629
S9: even just by working through some of the problems that

1093
00:55:45,630 --> 00:55:46,910
S9: people are dealing with.

1094
00:55:47,390 --> 00:55:50,709
S3: Bill Hendricks is the president of the Giftedness Center, giving

1095
00:55:50,710 --> 00:55:52,629
S3: you a key word here in a minute. But, Bill,

1096
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:56,710
S3: I'm curious, how did you discover that your giftedness was

1097
00:55:56,710 --> 00:55:59,669
S3: helping other people find their giftedness? How did you come

1098
00:55:59,670 --> 00:56:00,430
S3: to that?

1099
00:56:00,910 --> 00:56:05,150
S9: Well, because when I was 30 years old, uh, I

1100
00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:08,440
S9: graduated with my second master's degree and didn't know what

1101
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,560
S9: I wanted to do with my life. And my wife said, look,

1102
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:13,400
S9: I'm tired of putting you through school. I want to

1103
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,560
S9: start a family. Get out there and make some money. So,

1104
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,280
S9: you know, you got to go figure it out. And fortunately,

1105
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,279
S9: that was the point at which somebody took me through

1106
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:28,440
S9: this storytelling process that I've described. And once they showed me,

1107
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,320
S9: you know, that I'm what we call an impactor. Uh,

1108
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,319
S9: there's more to it than that. But basically, I want

1109
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,640
S9: to make a difference in people's lives, and and it

1110
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:42,640
S9: made such an impact on me. I began a consulting practice,

1111
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,000
S9: and I. But I never forgot that experience. And I

1112
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,239
S9: began to talk to people about this giftedness thing. And

1113
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,520
S9: when I did, they respond, oh my gosh, I want

1114
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,600
S9: to know more. Tell me, how can I, how can

1115
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,040
S9: I discover my giftedness? And I finally just decided, you know,

1116
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,400
S9: I need to reinvent my consulting practice around this because

1117
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,880
S9: I could help a lot of people. You know, this

1118
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,009
S9: process just gives me a huge opportunity to make an

1119
00:57:07,010 --> 00:57:08,330
S9: impact in people's lives.

1120
00:57:08,370 --> 00:57:12,610
S3: Yeah. You mentioned you're an impactor. Are there other categories

1121
00:57:12,610 --> 00:57:15,930
S3: like big buckets that this giftedness. Give me give me

1122
00:57:15,930 --> 00:57:16,770
S3: a couple of those.

1123
00:57:17,210 --> 00:57:19,850
S9: Well, like I mentioned, there's problem solvers. There's people who

1124
00:57:19,850 --> 00:57:22,210
S9: want to be on teams. There's people who want to

1125
00:57:22,530 --> 00:57:25,490
S9: understand things at a very deep level. There's people who

1126
00:57:25,490 --> 00:57:28,970
S9: want to influence people's behavior. There's people who want to

1127
00:57:29,010 --> 00:57:32,730
S9: extract potential. Uh, there's people who want to take whatever

1128
00:57:32,730 --> 00:57:34,690
S9: we have and make a whole lot more of it.

1129
00:57:34,930 --> 00:57:39,330
S9: I mean, and honestly, there's as many forms of giftedness

1130
00:57:39,330 --> 00:57:42,090
S9: as there are human beings because it turns out that

1131
00:57:42,090 --> 00:57:45,610
S9: everybody's giftedness is unique to them. Yeah. Because God made

1132
00:57:45,610 --> 00:57:46,890
S9: them a unique person.

1133
00:57:46,930 --> 00:57:50,130
S3: I love this Bill Hendricks from the Giftedness Center. I

1134
00:57:50,130 --> 00:57:55,410
S3: want you to text Will to (800) 555-7898 if you are wrestling.

1135
00:57:55,450 --> 00:58:00,090
S3: Wrestling with big questions. Maybe you're unhappy with your job,

1136
00:58:00,090 --> 00:58:03,290
S3: or you're trying to figure out what direction should I

1137
00:58:03,330 --> 00:58:06,260
S3: be going here? There's some great resources on this website,

1138
00:58:06,260 --> 00:58:10,060
S3: including personal diagnostic, that you can go through to try

1139
00:58:10,060 --> 00:58:14,180
S3: to discover your giftedness. A step by step guide. Other

1140
00:58:14,180 --> 00:58:16,660
S3: resources on the website as well. So just text will

1141
00:58:16,700 --> 00:58:21,340
S3: to 800 555 7898. We'll get you going. Just text

1142
00:58:21,380 --> 00:58:26,820
S3: will to 800 555 7898. Our thanks to Bill Hendricks

1143
00:58:26,860 --> 00:58:29,580
S3: for being with us this morning to talk about your

1144
00:58:29,580 --> 00:58:31,060
S3: and my giftedness.

1145
00:58:31,900 --> 00:58:36,100
S1: Standing on the rock each and every day. You're listening

1146
00:58:36,140 --> 00:58:37,340
S1: to Carl and crew.

1147
00:58:37,540 --> 00:58:42,500
S3: Carl actually is in Kenya for a ministry trip this week.

1148
00:58:42,500 --> 00:58:45,700
S3: And coming up, I think we have him connected.

1149
00:58:45,740 --> 00:58:46,980
S10: I know it's exciting.

1150
00:58:47,020 --> 00:58:50,300
S3: He's in a baptism service in Kenya right now. He's

1151
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:52,940
S3: going to check in live here on Carl and Chris.

1152
00:58:52,940 --> 00:58:54,700
S3: You're going to get to hear from him coming up.

1153
00:58:55,660 --> 00:58:59,620
S1: Take your next step with Jesus today. You're listening to

1154
00:58:59,660 --> 00:59:00,700
S1: Carl and crew.

1155
00:59:00,860 --> 00:59:04,669
S3: Carl, who is traveling to Kenya traveling in Kenya this

1156
00:59:04,670 --> 00:59:08,150
S3: week with the Timothy Initiative. Tell us what you're doing.

1157
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:11,310
S11: Yeah, we are at a baptismal right now. Can you

1158
00:59:11,350 --> 00:59:11,750
S11: hear me?

1159
00:59:12,030 --> 00:59:13,710
S3: Oh, yes, I can hear you. Go ahead.

1160
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:17,390
S11: Beautiful. Um, the voices you hear in the background, about

1161
00:59:17,390 --> 00:59:21,230
S11: 50 folks are going to be baptized. We're marafa Kenya.

1162
00:59:21,630 --> 00:59:25,630
S11: It's kind of a more coastal region here in Kenya.

1163
00:59:26,030 --> 00:59:29,270
S11: The unreached people groups that are being reached by TT

1164
00:59:29,310 --> 00:59:33,190
S11: is staggering. I have with me David Nelms. David, what's

1165
00:59:33,230 --> 00:59:35,870
S11: God doing here? My man, this has been amazing, hasn't it?

1166
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:39,750
S12: Uh, it's it's, uh, it's like the book of acts, Carl.

1167
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:44,430
S12: It's people getting saved right and left, multiplication, churches planting,

1168
00:59:44,910 --> 00:59:50,270
S12: Muslims coming to Christ, prayers being answered. It's it's fun.

1169
00:59:50,310 --> 00:59:54,030
S11: It's overwhelming. This old guy's crying left and right around here. Ali.

1170
00:59:54,910 --> 00:59:58,270
S3: Unbelievable. Timothy. Initiative. If you are not familiar with, you're

1171
00:59:58,270 --> 01:00:00,070
S3: going to learn a lot more as we partner with

1172
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,400
S3: them coming up, but they together for a church in

1173
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:08,120
S3: every village, everywhere. They are about multiplication, disciple making churches. Karl,

1174
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,320
S3: what have you learned so far just in your brief

1175
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,000
S3: time there in Kenya?

1176
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:17,320
S11: The speed at which the velocity spiritual velocity of this

1177
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:21,360
S11: momentum is utterly staggering. Ali. They are we. I met

1178
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:25,000
S11: a man this morning. He has. He went from born

1179
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,560
S11: again two years ago to being a Titus, what they

1180
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,440
S11: call a Titus, a new believer to becoming a Timothy,

1181
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:34,960
S11: to becoming then a Paul, and is now launched two

1182
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,560
S11: churches in two years. This is no joke. And this

1183
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:42,440
S11: comes right out of second Timothy two verse one and two.

1184
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,720
S11: And it's the model of T. And there is so

1185
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,919
S11: there's so many challenging aspects to what they're doing here

1186
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:55,680
S11: through TT for the church in America. It's it's almost breathtaking.

1187
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,900
S3: Yeah. You know I can hear the singing in the background.

1188
01:00:58,900 --> 01:01:01,340
S3: What are you? Are you outside? Are you in a

1189
01:01:01,340 --> 01:01:04,780
S3: building or what? What is this church baptism service like

1190
01:01:04,780 --> 01:01:05,300
S3: right now?

1191
01:01:05,780 --> 01:01:09,140
S11: We're we're outside. We were going to go baptize in

1192
01:01:09,140 --> 01:01:11,540
S11: a in a river. But there's there was a threat

1193
01:01:11,540 --> 01:01:14,020
S11: of some hippos. So we found a pool and there's

1194
01:01:14,020 --> 01:01:18,340
S11: about 50. There's about 50 that are going in. I'm

1195
01:01:18,340 --> 01:01:20,380
S11: I'm watching a woman right now about to go into

1196
01:01:20,380 --> 01:01:23,940
S11: the water. So there's about 50 being baptized here in

1197
01:01:23,940 --> 01:01:27,820
S11: just a few moments. It's it's overwhelming. And and I

1198
01:01:27,820 --> 01:01:29,740
S11: was just talking to Shauna. We're going to have her

1199
01:01:29,740 --> 01:01:33,500
S11: on here in a bit. Our midday host, but, um, and,

1200
01:01:33,540 --> 01:01:35,420
S11: and I was just kicking this around with my bride.

1201
01:01:35,420 --> 01:01:38,380
S11: My bride's able to be on this trip. The earnestness

1202
01:01:38,380 --> 01:01:42,300
S11: of these people, Ali. I mean, listen, when they pray,

1203
01:01:42,340 --> 01:01:45,419
S11: their heads are bowed and their hearts are bowed, and

1204
01:01:45,420 --> 01:01:48,900
S11: it's all inspiring. And it's not just a few. We're

1205
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:53,140
S11: talking masses of people are being impacted with this multiplication model.

1206
01:01:53,380 --> 01:01:57,950
S3: Wow. You know, you're the threat of hippos in what

1207
01:01:57,950 --> 01:02:00,270
S3: is what caused the baptism to be.

1208
01:02:00,310 --> 01:02:00,950
S11: Yeah, yeah.

1209
01:02:01,390 --> 01:02:01,790
S3: You know.

1210
01:02:01,830 --> 01:02:03,270
S11: Yeah. I'm. Yeah.

1211
01:02:03,310 --> 01:02:04,470
S3: Go. Go ahead, go ahead.

1212
01:02:04,750 --> 01:02:09,310
S11: No, it's just it's it's it's different here. It's not like, um,

1213
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:13,550
S11: it's different, but it's alive. You know, churches here are

1214
01:02:13,550 --> 01:02:17,030
S11: very different than home. Um, we're in a, we're under

1215
01:02:17,030 --> 01:02:20,870
S11: a tree. And that constitutes a church, right? David Nelms

1216
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:22,510
S11: that's correct. Weigh in on that one, man.

1217
01:02:22,510 --> 01:02:25,270
S12: Yeah. We would say it doesn't matter what the church

1218
01:02:25,270 --> 01:02:27,510
S12: looks like. It's what do you do when you're there

1219
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:34,270
S12: and praising God scriptures, fellowship ordinances and training people to

1220
01:02:34,310 --> 01:02:37,830
S12: go out and make disciples who make disciples. That's the

1221
01:02:37,830 --> 01:02:38,390
S12: big thing.

1222
01:02:38,430 --> 01:02:42,229
S11: Yeah. It's, you know, Ali David Nelms in this team.

1223
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:44,350
S11: He founded it, but now he's got a team ready

1224
01:02:44,350 --> 01:02:49,350
S11: for this one. There's 2000 staff, okay. And those are

1225
01:02:49,630 --> 01:02:52,910
S11: those are in-country staff countries all around, mainly in the

1226
01:02:52,910 --> 01:02:57,360
S11: 1040 window. Persecuted church. But here's the kicker. They got

1227
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:02,040
S11: 45 stateside staff, but they don't go and stay and

1228
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,160
S11: live in these in these areas, they go in and

1229
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:10,080
S11: train these poles. The poles then get this cycle going.

1230
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:14,520
S11: My goodness, in the last year in this region alone,

1231
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:19,160
S11: let me even go back further than that. Since 2017,

1232
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:23,480
S11: there's been over 1000 churches planted in this region that

1233
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:24,240
S11: we're in right now.

1234
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,120
S3: In that over 1000 just there.

1235
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:27,800
S11: In that region.

1236
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:28,520
S3: Church in Kenya.

1237
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,320
S11: Right here. And this is not this is not pie

1238
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:35,200
S11: in the sky. This is like they're verified twice a year.

1239
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,360
S11: They even have third parties that come in to double

1240
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,960
S11: check their work and their math. But I'm sitting here

1241
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:44,440
S11: right now. I'm looking at them. I'm watching three, three girls.

1242
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,720
S11: Two just came out of the water. Three are going

1243
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,160
S11: into the water right now, going into the water. And

1244
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:50,640
S11: you can you hear the singing?

1245
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,810
S3: Yes, yes, I hear the singing.

1246
01:03:52,850 --> 01:03:56,290
S11: They're singing. They're singing over them. They're singing over them.

1247
01:03:56,930 --> 01:03:57,330
S10: Wow.

1248
01:03:57,770 --> 01:04:00,130
S3: Carl, what is this doing in your heart? I mean,

1249
01:04:00,170 --> 01:04:00,450
S3: as a.

1250
01:04:00,490 --> 01:04:04,250
S11: Well, it's it's if if I, if I didn't have

1251
01:04:04,330 --> 01:04:06,370
S11: you gotta have wet would to not get fired up

1252
01:04:06,370 --> 01:04:09,170
S11: about what God's doing right here. But but if I

1253
01:04:09,170 --> 01:04:12,290
S11: wasn't fired up before about discipleship, now is the time.

1254
01:04:12,290 --> 01:04:17,010
S11: This is the biblical model of discipleship, David White. That's

1255
01:04:17,010 --> 01:04:19,130
S11: what God did in you a number of years ago, right?

1256
01:04:19,170 --> 01:04:23,090
S12: Yeah, I all my life I pastored, I did the

1257
01:04:23,090 --> 01:04:26,570
S12: best I could. I tried to teach the Bible, but

1258
01:04:26,570 --> 01:04:29,730
S12: somehow I think I communicated. Just bring your friends to

1259
01:04:29,730 --> 01:04:32,090
S12: church and let me give them the gospel. And I

1260
01:04:32,090 --> 01:04:35,770
S12: don't think that's the primary way we're supposed to do it, Carl. No,

1261
01:04:35,810 --> 01:04:38,090
S12: I think we're supposed. I think pastors are supposed to

1262
01:04:38,130 --> 01:04:40,530
S12: equip their people to do the work of the ministry.

1263
01:04:40,810 --> 01:04:43,530
S12: And if the work of the ministry is anything, it's

1264
01:04:43,530 --> 01:04:47,610
S12: making disciples who make disciples. And I tell you, once

1265
01:04:47,610 --> 01:04:49,730
S12: you start seeing that, once you drink the Kool-Aid.

1266
01:04:49,770 --> 01:04:50,170
S11: Yeah.

1267
01:04:50,500 --> 01:04:51,540
S12: Uh, it's got you.

1268
01:04:51,780 --> 01:04:52,980
S11: I got I got to tell you one more. You

1269
01:04:52,980 --> 01:04:53,860
S11: got time for a quick one?

1270
01:04:53,900 --> 01:04:54,780
S3: Yeah. Go ahead.

1271
01:04:54,820 --> 01:04:58,140
S11: Okay. Pastor Mahfuza. I met this guy. Okay. Get this.

1272
01:04:58,620 --> 01:05:01,460
S11: This guy came to Jesus. He's. I think he's in

1273
01:05:01,460 --> 01:05:04,060
S11: his 60s, if I'm not mistaken. I think he's close

1274
01:05:04,060 --> 01:05:07,100
S11: to it. And he came to Christ like, four years ago.

1275
01:05:07,460 --> 01:05:11,660
S11: This guy is a flame for the Lord. I mean,

1276
01:05:11,700 --> 01:05:17,500
S11: we're he's got, I believe, 10 to 12 churches kind

1277
01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:19,900
S11: of under his umbrella. I might be off on those

1278
01:05:19,900 --> 01:05:21,980
S11: numbers a little bit, but it's close. I met a

1279
01:05:21,980 --> 01:05:25,460
S11: young man that got delivered out of witchcraft. He had

1280
01:05:25,460 --> 01:05:29,580
S11: been handed that mantle from his dad, and, uh, he

1281
01:05:29,620 --> 01:05:33,860
S11: went through an illness. And the the witchcraft wasn't working.

1282
01:05:34,020 --> 01:05:37,820
S11: And God's providential hand ran him into a disciple of

1283
01:05:37,820 --> 01:05:42,220
S11: Christ here who's in this tea process. And he was

1284
01:05:42,220 --> 01:05:46,140
S11: born again called the Titus. He's become a Timothy, and

1285
01:05:46,140 --> 01:05:48,260
S11: now he is. And when they study the word of God,

1286
01:05:48,260 --> 01:05:50,110
S11: this is one thing I heard is kind of a oh,

1287
01:05:50,150 --> 01:05:53,270
S11: by the way, today, yeah, they're hunkering down for five

1288
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:57,189
S11: hour sessions, getting boot camp on the word of God. Wow.

1289
01:05:57,230 --> 01:06:00,670
S11: They're hunkering down. I mean, Ali, come on.

1290
01:06:00,710 --> 01:06:03,510
S3: That is incredible. Now I can hear the joy in

1291
01:06:03,510 --> 01:06:06,750
S3: your voice. I can hear the the celebration behind you.

1292
01:06:06,750 --> 01:06:09,230
S3: I want to get you more information. You listening right now?

1293
01:06:09,230 --> 01:06:10,790
S3: Just so you can learn a little bit more about

1294
01:06:10,790 --> 01:06:16,710
S3: the Timothy Initiative. Just text Tim to 800 555 7898.

1295
01:06:16,750 --> 01:06:21,870
S3: Text Tim to 800 555 7898. You can find a

1296
01:06:21,870 --> 01:06:23,830
S3: little bit more about this ministry, but again, you're going

1297
01:06:23,830 --> 01:06:26,030
S3: to be hearing much more about it in days to come.

1298
01:06:26,070 --> 01:06:29,350
S3: Final word, Carl, before I release you back to the celebration.

1299
01:06:29,750 --> 01:06:32,630
S11: Um. Final word. Sean is here. Midday host. I'm going

1300
01:06:32,670 --> 01:06:34,870
S11: to get her to pipe in really quick. Shauna, duck

1301
01:06:34,870 --> 01:06:37,830
S11: in here. Sister. Yeah, um, we set up a table

1302
01:06:37,870 --> 01:06:41,270
S11: out in the. This very uneven surface under this monster

1303
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:45,229
S11: tree that's protecting us from 91 degrees. But, Shauna, what

1304
01:06:45,230 --> 01:06:46,930
S11: has God been showing you, sister.

1305
01:06:46,970 --> 01:06:48,890
S13: Oh, man. I just have to paint a picture. We're

1306
01:06:48,890 --> 01:06:51,730
S13: sitting in this. It's a hot day in Africa. We're

1307
01:06:51,730 --> 01:06:54,370
S13: sitting under a tree. There is a baptismal, which is

1308
01:06:54,370 --> 01:06:57,290
S13: a pool. It's concrete. It's about the size of two jacuzzis.

1309
01:06:57,490 --> 01:07:00,530
S13: People are in and out of that pool going in dead,

1310
01:07:00,530 --> 01:07:03,690
S13: coming out alive. And, you know, we're told that the

1311
01:07:03,690 --> 01:07:06,250
S13: moment we give our life to Jesus, we become reconcilers

1312
01:07:06,250 --> 01:07:11,530
S13: and reconcilers. They are the moment they're being created new.

1313
01:07:11,930 --> 01:07:15,370
S13: They become people who reconcile people to Jesus. We can

1314
01:07:15,370 --> 01:07:19,170
S13: learn from the Africans. Y'all, I am so excited. I

1315
01:07:19,170 --> 01:07:22,610
S13: am jazzed like April can't come fast enough because. And

1316
01:07:22,610 --> 01:07:24,370
S13: to be totally honest with you, the Lord is doing

1317
01:07:24,370 --> 01:07:26,690
S13: something in my own heart. I feel like I can't

1318
01:07:27,330 --> 01:07:31,530
S13: keep doing what I have been doing as an American Christian,

1319
01:07:31,530 --> 01:07:35,130
S13: and they have something for us, and it's just it

1320
01:07:35,130 --> 01:07:37,050
S13: is so beautiful to be here among them.

1321
01:07:37,050 --> 01:07:41,490
S11: That is so true. And, uh, Ali, you know, there's

1322
01:07:41,490 --> 01:07:43,610
S11: no way this isn't going to sneak its way into

1323
01:07:43,650 --> 01:07:44,780
S11: all of our programming.

1324
01:07:44,820 --> 01:07:45,460
S14: For the next.

1325
01:07:45,460 --> 01:07:49,260
S11: However many days God gives us on earth here. But, um,

1326
01:07:49,300 --> 01:07:52,700
S11: it's it's a blessing. It's an unbelievable thing to watch. Oh,

1327
01:07:52,740 --> 01:07:56,580
S11: hold on, get this. I'm watching four young men right now.

1328
01:07:56,940 --> 01:08:00,060
S11: Four young men. Uh, I put them in their 20s.

1329
01:08:00,580 --> 01:08:02,900
S11: I'd put them in their 20s, and they're walking down

1330
01:08:02,900 --> 01:08:06,340
S11: into the pool of baptism right now. Right now? Right now,

1331
01:08:06,340 --> 01:08:08,700
S11: as we speak, we are live in Kenya.

1332
01:08:08,740 --> 01:08:12,220
S3: Oh, boy. With the Timothy Initiative. Karl, thank you so

1333
01:08:12,220 --> 01:08:14,340
S3: much for checking in this morning. We hope to get

1334
01:08:14,340 --> 01:08:17,660
S3: him on as he progresses through the week on this

1335
01:08:17,700 --> 01:08:21,379
S3: incredible ministry trip. He's there with his bride. Uh, Shawna,

1336
01:08:21,380 --> 01:08:24,380
S3: our midday host is there as well, David Nelms, who

1337
01:08:24,380 --> 01:08:27,019
S3: you heard with the Timothy Initiative. If you want more

1338
01:08:27,020 --> 01:08:33,019
S3: on this phenomenal ministry, just text him to 800 555 7898,

1339
01:08:33,060 --> 01:08:39,299
S3: text Tim to 800 555 7898. Boy, are you excited

1340
01:08:39,300 --> 01:08:40,780
S3: just hearing that this morning.

1341
01:08:40,780 --> 01:08:41,900
S4: That fire you up.

1342
01:08:42,340 --> 01:08:43,099
S3: Good stuff.