1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,639 S1: Theologian Dorothy Sayers once said, work is not primarily a 2 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,840 S1: thing one does to live, but the thing one lives 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,480 S1: to do. I am Rob West. If God designed work 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,000 S1: before the fall and preserved it after redemption, then work 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,160 S1: is not simply what we do. It's part of who 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,280 S1: we are. Today, we'll look at how Scripture gives us 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,160 S1: a different picture of what work was meant to be 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,760 S1: and what it can still become. Then it's on to 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:40,239 S1: your calls at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,760 S1: This is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:50,080 S1: financial journey. From the first pages of Scripture to the last, 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,880 S1: the Bible treats work not as a necessary evil, but 13 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,080 S1: as a sacred calling woven into what it means to 14 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,500 S1: bear God's image. But if we're honest, many of us 15 00:01:00,500 --> 00:01:03,500 S1: don't think about work that way. For some, work feels 16 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:06,580 S1: like a grind to get through until the weekend arrives. 17 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:09,819 S1: For others, it's a means of identity. The latter we 18 00:01:09,860 --> 00:01:14,459 S1: climb to prove ourselves, and for others, especially in retirement work, 19 00:01:14,459 --> 00:01:18,819 S1: may now look like volunteering, investing in grandkids, serving at church, 20 00:01:18,819 --> 00:01:23,700 S1: or caring for aging parents. Still, in every season, Scripture 21 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:28,340 S1: reframes the conversation. Our work, paid or unpaid, is an 22 00:01:28,340 --> 00:01:32,540 S1: act of worship to God. In Genesis 215, before sin 23 00:01:32,540 --> 00:01:35,620 S1: ever entered the world, Adam was placed in the garden 24 00:01:35,620 --> 00:01:38,940 S1: to work it and keep it. Work wasn't cursed, it 25 00:01:38,940 --> 00:01:42,580 S1: was commissioned. It was a gift before it became a burden. 26 00:01:42,740 --> 00:01:44,700 S1: And it will be a gift again in the new 27 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:49,220 S1: creation where revelation describes the people of God reigning with Christ, 28 00:01:49,260 --> 00:01:53,700 S1: not in idleness, but in fruitful responsibility and stewarding joy. 29 00:01:54,100 --> 00:01:58,260 S1: Our faith isn't merely about spiritual activities. It's about doing 30 00:01:58,260 --> 00:02:02,670 S1: the everyday things with excellence, integrity and love because that 31 00:02:02,670 --> 00:02:06,790 S1: reflects the God who creates orders and sustains all things. 32 00:02:07,230 --> 00:02:11,550 S1: Scripture gives us a remarkable picture of this in Exodus 31. 33 00:02:11,550 --> 00:02:15,030 S1: When God commands the building of the tabernacle, he fills 34 00:02:15,030 --> 00:02:19,110 S1: Bezalel with the Spirit of God with ability and intelligence, 35 00:02:19,110 --> 00:02:23,109 S1: with knowledge and all craftsmanship to design and build the 36 00:02:23,110 --> 00:02:26,590 S1: place where his presence would dwell. Think about that. The 37 00:02:26,630 --> 00:02:30,750 S1: first person in Scripture, explicitly filled with the spirit wasn't 38 00:02:30,790 --> 00:02:33,990 S1: a prophet or a king. It was a craftsman, a builder, 39 00:02:34,030 --> 00:02:37,990 S1: a worker, someone God called to saw wood form metal 40 00:02:37,990 --> 00:02:41,550 S1: and stitch fabric with excellence for his glory. Work done 41 00:02:41,550 --> 00:02:45,350 S1: unto the Lord is worship. This reframes how we think 42 00:02:45,350 --> 00:02:48,669 S1: about our own jobs. Whether you're grading papers late into 43 00:02:48,669 --> 00:02:52,630 S1: the night, running spreadsheets in an office, raising young children 44 00:02:52,630 --> 00:02:55,269 S1: at home, or volunteering at the food pantry in your 45 00:02:55,270 --> 00:02:59,450 S1: retirement years, you are imaging God in your work. In 46 00:02:59,450 --> 00:03:03,810 S1: Colossians 323 and 24, Paul writes, whatever you do, work 47 00:03:03,810 --> 00:03:06,850 S1: heartily as for the Lord, not for men. You are 48 00:03:06,850 --> 00:03:10,770 S1: serving the Lord Christ. That means there are no ordinary 49 00:03:10,770 --> 00:03:15,970 S1: jobs in the kingdom, only ordinary moments given extraordinary significance 50 00:03:15,970 --> 00:03:19,010 S1: when they are offered to Christ. It also helps us 51 00:03:19,010 --> 00:03:23,850 S1: understand why work often feels frustrating. After the fall, work 52 00:03:23,850 --> 00:03:28,050 S1: was not removed, it was resisted. Thorns and thistles entered 53 00:03:28,050 --> 00:03:33,290 S1: the world, symbolizing difficulty, inefficiency and fatigue. We still work, 54 00:03:33,290 --> 00:03:37,170 S1: but now with friction. And yet the gospel doesn't erase work. 55 00:03:37,170 --> 00:03:40,850 S1: It redeems it. Christ rescues not only our souls, but 56 00:03:40,850 --> 00:03:44,970 S1: our vocations, renewing our labor to bless others, advance good, 57 00:03:44,970 --> 00:03:49,210 S1: and glorify God. This is one of the most countercultural 58 00:03:49,210 --> 00:03:53,650 S1: truths in Scripture. Work is not primarily about income, but 59 00:03:53,650 --> 00:03:58,180 S1: about formation. It shapes us into the people who resemble Christ. 60 00:03:58,220 --> 00:04:03,500 S1: It teaches diligence, humility, perseverance, love of neighbor, and dependence 61 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:07,580 S1: on the spirit. It's why work matters before retirement and 62 00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:11,300 S1: why it matters after. The kingdom has no unemployment line. 63 00:04:11,420 --> 00:04:15,500 S1: It has only stewards, servants and image bearers. And here's 64 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:18,900 S1: the wonderful news. When we offer our work to God, 65 00:04:18,900 --> 00:04:22,740 S1: he delights in it. The spreadsheets, the dishes, the carpentry, 66 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:26,219 S1: the caregiving, the counseling, the volunteering. None of it is 67 00:04:26,260 --> 00:04:30,420 S1: wasted when it's done unto the Lord. Your everyday work 68 00:04:30,420 --> 00:04:34,740 S1: is kingdom work. So today, perhaps the invitation is simple 69 00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:38,260 S1: don't just go to work. Worship at work. Ask the 70 00:04:38,260 --> 00:04:41,860 S1: spirit to help you serve, not for applause or promotion, 71 00:04:41,860 --> 00:04:45,060 S1: but for the pleasure of the King. And remember this 72 00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:48,580 S1: what matters most is not the job you have, but 73 00:04:48,580 --> 00:04:51,980 S1: the God you serve through it. This vision of work 74 00:04:51,980 --> 00:04:54,660 S1: is worship is something we explore more deeply in my 75 00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:58,640 S1: new devotional. Our ultimate treasure. It's a 21 day journey 76 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,760 S1: into what faithful stewardship really looks like. Not just with money, 77 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,880 S1: but with everything God entrust to us. You can order 78 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,840 S1: an individual copy today, or place a bulk order for 79 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,800 S1: your church or small group at faith fi.com. That's faith 80 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:20,600 S1: fi.com slash. All right, your calls are next 800 525 7000. 81 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,600 S1: Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started. 82 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,000 S2: The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or 83 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,440 S2: professional opinions of the participants given for informational purposes only. 84 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,120 S2: Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from 85 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,440 S2: a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your 86 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:50,920 S2: specific situation. 87 00:05:57,450 --> 00:05:59,530 S1: Delighted to have you with us today on Faith and 88 00:05:59,529 --> 00:06:02,130 S1: Finance Live. I'm Rob Westwell. We're going to be taking 89 00:06:02,130 --> 00:06:04,490 S1: your phone calls here in just a moment. That number 90 00:06:04,490 --> 00:06:07,730 S1: to call to get in on the conversation today 805, 91 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:11,210 S1: two five, 7000. We've got some lines open and we're 92 00:06:11,210 --> 00:06:15,690 S1: just waiting for you. Call right now 800 525 7000. 93 00:06:15,730 --> 00:06:19,730 S1: You know, we began today by talking about work as worship, 94 00:06:19,850 --> 00:06:22,409 S1: you know, and that might be a brand new idea 95 00:06:22,410 --> 00:06:24,450 S1: for you as you think about the work that you 96 00:06:24,450 --> 00:06:28,690 S1: do every day. And yet if you stop and consider it, 97 00:06:28,730 --> 00:06:32,089 S1: you know, work is a part of God's design. Remember, 98 00:06:32,089 --> 00:06:35,650 S1: it was pre-fall that Adam and Eve were workers to 99 00:06:35,690 --> 00:06:38,730 S1: keep and cultivate the garden. And if we approach it 100 00:06:38,730 --> 00:06:42,729 S1: from that perspective and realize, yes, work has been frustrated 101 00:06:42,730 --> 00:06:46,370 S1: after the fall, but that doesn't change. Its original purpose 102 00:06:46,370 --> 00:06:49,290 S1: is that we are co-laborers with God, that this is 103 00:06:49,290 --> 00:06:52,050 S1: a part of our plan or his plan throughout the 104 00:06:52,050 --> 00:06:54,710 S1: whole of our lives until he calls us home. and 105 00:06:54,710 --> 00:06:56,830 S1: guess what? We're going to be workers in the. The 106 00:06:56,830 --> 00:07:00,230 S1: new earth as well. Uh. After he returns and calls 107 00:07:00,230 --> 00:07:03,670 S1: us home, we'll have responsibility and jobs, but it will 108 00:07:03,670 --> 00:07:07,270 S1: be unburdened by the effects of sin. We'll be able 109 00:07:07,270 --> 00:07:11,350 S1: to work to our full potential with ultimate enjoyment in 110 00:07:11,350 --> 00:07:14,310 S1: God and glory to God. But we have the opportunity 111 00:07:14,310 --> 00:07:17,390 S1: to do that today. And perhaps that involves a shift 112 00:07:17,390 --> 00:07:20,230 S1: in your thinking about how you show up to work 113 00:07:20,230 --> 00:07:23,230 S1: and how you consider the work that you do each day. 114 00:07:23,270 --> 00:07:26,270 S1: Maybe you look at it as mundane, and you need 115 00:07:26,270 --> 00:07:29,430 S1: to change your perspective and really see this as a 116 00:07:29,430 --> 00:07:33,030 S1: part of God's plan and design, and lean into that 117 00:07:33,030 --> 00:07:35,790 S1: and really experience all that God has for you as 118 00:07:35,790 --> 00:07:39,110 S1: you serve others, and you bring God glory through the 119 00:07:39,110 --> 00:07:42,230 S1: work that you do on a daily basis. And you 120 00:07:42,230 --> 00:07:45,350 S1: know what? That's part of our financial journey because, you know, 121 00:07:45,390 --> 00:07:49,030 S1: so often we see work as just a means to 122 00:07:49,070 --> 00:07:52,230 S1: have resources to pay our bills. And it's so much 123 00:07:52,230 --> 00:07:54,610 S1: more than that. You know, I love this story that 124 00:07:54,610 --> 00:07:57,490 S1: we call out in this day in our ultimate treasure. 125 00:07:57,770 --> 00:08:02,850 S1: As we talk about Bezalel and really the the instructions 126 00:08:02,850 --> 00:08:05,650 S1: that were given to him. And you know, as we 127 00:08:05,650 --> 00:08:08,410 S1: look at Scripture there in Exodus 31, and we realize 128 00:08:08,410 --> 00:08:12,610 S1: that God chose Bezalel to help build the tabernacle, and 129 00:08:12,610 --> 00:08:15,330 S1: he filled him with his spirit. And this is the 130 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:18,650 S1: first person in the Bible explicitly described as being filled 131 00:08:18,650 --> 00:08:21,410 S1: with the Spirit of God. And isn't it notable that 132 00:08:21,410 --> 00:08:23,730 S1: it wasn't a prophet or a priest or a king? 133 00:08:23,930 --> 00:08:26,970 S1: It was an artisan, someone called to build and shape 134 00:08:26,970 --> 00:08:32,490 S1: and and sew and beautify holy spaces with excellence. Think 135 00:08:32,490 --> 00:08:37,410 S1: about that. The Holy Spirit and the spirit empowered him 136 00:08:37,410 --> 00:08:41,450 S1: with skill and intelligence and intelligence and artistry to make 137 00:08:41,450 --> 00:08:44,569 S1: something that would host the very presence of God. What 138 00:08:44,570 --> 00:08:47,170 S1: if that reframed the work you and I do on 139 00:08:47,170 --> 00:08:50,170 S1: a daily basis? Would we show up differently to work 140 00:08:50,170 --> 00:08:53,380 S1: as we think about this idea that our everyday work 141 00:08:53,420 --> 00:08:56,300 S1: is in fact kingdom work, and I hope that challenges 142 00:08:56,300 --> 00:08:58,100 S1: you today. I know it does to me as I 143 00:08:58,260 --> 00:09:01,179 S1: consider the work God has called me to. Well, we 144 00:09:01,179 --> 00:09:03,620 S1: want to talk about what's happening in your financial life. 145 00:09:03,620 --> 00:09:07,740 S1: We'll do that as we gather together here on the broadcast. And, uh, 146 00:09:07,780 --> 00:09:09,780 S1: all we need is your call. We've got some lines open. 147 00:09:09,780 --> 00:09:14,220 S1: We're ready for you. That number, 800 525 7000, that's 148 00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:18,460 S1: 800 525 7000. You can call right now. Let's go 149 00:09:18,460 --> 00:09:20,580 S1: to Pennsylvania. James, how can I help? 150 00:09:20,980 --> 00:09:27,980 S3: Uh, I've been contacted by a very established private conservative college, 151 00:09:28,260 --> 00:09:32,940 S3: and they're offering 10% interest on, uh, any donations that 152 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:37,340 S3: you make every $10,000. Uh, we have never we've done 153 00:09:37,340 --> 00:09:41,699 S3: many contributions to worthy causes, but we never expected to 154 00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:46,100 S3: get any return from it besides just the gratitude of 155 00:09:46,140 --> 00:09:50,540 S3: doing it. But so we're kind of guilty taking this offer. 156 00:09:50,820 --> 00:09:53,520 S3: It sure does that. Does that make sense or not? 157 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,520 S1: It certainly does. And it's a very effective strategy in 158 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,200 S1: this season of life. Or at least it can be. 159 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,640 S1: It doesn't mean it's for everyone. It sounds like what's 160 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,360 S1: called a charitable gift annuity. Uh, does that how it's 161 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,240 S1: described to you that. 162 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,240 S3: I haven't contacted them back yet. I okay, yeah, I 163 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,520 S3: just curious as to whether you've heard of this and 164 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:19,079 S3: whether it, uh, yeah, it's a sign that it helps them. 165 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,800 S1: Yeah, it certainly can be a good idea. Here's where 166 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,080 S1: it typically works. Well, you want a guaranteed income for 167 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,959 S1: life because these arrangements, to your point, typically provide fixed 168 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:34,720 S1: payments you can't outlive. So it's attractive for retirement stability. Uh, 169 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,359 S1: you're already charitably inclined, which you are. And you value simplicity. 170 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,440 S1: No market management, no allocation decisions, just steady payments. And 171 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,959 S1: there may be tax benefits because you you get a 172 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,530 S1: partial charitable deduction up front. And then some portion of 173 00:10:51,530 --> 00:10:54,770 S1: the payments may be tax favored because they're considered a 174 00:10:54,770 --> 00:10:57,609 S1: return of principal. So the only thing to be cautious 175 00:10:57,610 --> 00:11:01,290 S1: about is that 10% is unusually high. So you need 176 00:11:01,290 --> 00:11:03,809 S1: to take a look at that closely. The typical charitable 177 00:11:03,809 --> 00:11:07,290 S1: gift annuity rates based on your age would be in 178 00:11:07,330 --> 00:11:10,809 S1: the 5 to 8% range. So, you know, depending on 179 00:11:10,809 --> 00:11:14,290 S1: your age, you know, that could perhaps drive it up 180 00:11:14,290 --> 00:11:18,290 S1: to 10%. Uh, it also could be a structure that 181 00:11:18,290 --> 00:11:22,330 S1: is not a standard charitable gift annuity and therefore carries 182 00:11:22,330 --> 00:11:24,530 S1: more risk. So that would be something I would want 183 00:11:24,570 --> 00:11:28,250 S1: to understand. You also need to know it's an irrevocable decision. 184 00:11:28,290 --> 00:11:31,250 S1: You once you do it, you know, you can't take 185 00:11:31,250 --> 00:11:34,370 S1: it back. And, um, you know, you wouldn't be able 186 00:11:34,370 --> 00:11:37,810 S1: to access that principle again. So you lose flexibility if 187 00:11:37,850 --> 00:11:42,970 S1: you need changes. And then the credit risk is essentially 188 00:11:43,450 --> 00:11:46,689 S1: tied to the financial strength of the institution. This is 189 00:11:46,690 --> 00:11:50,990 S1: not FDIC insured. So if the school struggles financially, payments 190 00:11:50,990 --> 00:11:54,150 S1: could be at risk. So I think I would look 191 00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:57,110 S1: at that and just consider whether this is just one 192 00:11:57,110 --> 00:12:01,030 S1: piece of your overall retirement plan. And so therefore you're 193 00:12:01,030 --> 00:12:04,630 S1: diversified or, you know, are you putting too many eggs 194 00:12:04,630 --> 00:12:07,350 S1: in one basket here, just given that you are at 195 00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:10,150 S1: the risk of the school and, you know, keep in mind, 196 00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:13,630 S1: just given what's going on with the demographic changes, you know, 197 00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:16,309 S1: this this cliff, if you will, of a fall off 198 00:12:16,309 --> 00:12:19,510 S1: in in the number of students just because we're having 199 00:12:19,510 --> 00:12:23,270 S1: less babies. Um, you know, a lot of schools, especially 200 00:12:23,270 --> 00:12:25,829 S1: a lot of smaller Christian schools are struggling. And so 201 00:12:25,830 --> 00:12:27,910 S1: you just need to understand what kind of risk you're 202 00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:31,670 S1: taking on there. And again, why is that payout that's 203 00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:34,750 S1: being quoted to you higher than what we would typically see? 204 00:12:34,750 --> 00:12:36,870 S1: Those would be the two things I would lean into. 205 00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:40,630 S3: Very good. All right. That takes care of my curiosity. 206 00:12:40,670 --> 00:12:41,189 S3: Thank you. 207 00:12:41,390 --> 00:12:43,630 S1: Very good. You're welcome. And if, uh, after you have 208 00:12:43,630 --> 00:12:45,550 S1: the conversation, if you want to talk further, give me 209 00:12:45,550 --> 00:12:47,230 S1: a call back. I'd love to chat a bit more 210 00:12:47,230 --> 00:12:51,210 S1: about it. Uh, 800 525 7000. By the way, uh, 211 00:12:51,210 --> 00:12:54,650 S1: you know, the Moody Bible Institute offers charitable gift annuities. 212 00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:57,490 S1: And so if you're listening to this broadcast and you're thinking, huh, 213 00:12:57,530 --> 00:13:00,290 S1: that's interesting. I could use income for life. I could 214 00:13:00,290 --> 00:13:04,090 S1: use a partial charitable deduction. I'd love to fund Moody 215 00:13:04,090 --> 00:13:07,890 S1: Bible Institute and Moody Radio with whatever's remaining at death. 216 00:13:07,929 --> 00:13:09,810 S1: That sounds like something I would like to be a 217 00:13:09,809 --> 00:13:12,570 S1: part of. Well, the stewardship team at MBI would be 218 00:13:12,570 --> 00:13:14,290 S1: delighted to talk to you about that. And a lot 219 00:13:14,290 --> 00:13:17,130 S1: of people think that a charitable gift annuity, you know, 220 00:13:17,170 --> 00:13:22,130 S1: has to be automatically, you know, 1 or 2 or $300,000. No, uh, 221 00:13:22,130 --> 00:13:25,890 S1: you know, it could be 30,000 or 50,000 again, one 222 00:13:25,890 --> 00:13:30,450 S1: piece of your overall retirement plan and maybe for that portion, 223 00:13:30,450 --> 00:13:33,810 S1: you get some steady income, you get a tax favored 224 00:13:33,809 --> 00:13:37,690 S1: charitable deduction up front. And you know, that, uh, you know, 225 00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:40,209 S1: part of your estate is automatically going to go in 226 00:13:40,210 --> 00:13:43,130 S1: this case to Moody Bible Institute at death. What an 227 00:13:43,130 --> 00:13:46,810 S1: opportunity for you to consider might be worth reaching out 228 00:13:46,809 --> 00:13:50,059 S1: to the team at Moody Bible Institute. The stewardship team 229 00:13:50,059 --> 00:13:52,180 S1: would be delighted to talk to you a bit further. 230 00:13:52,220 --> 00:13:54,100 S1: All right. We're going to take a break. When we 231 00:13:54,140 --> 00:13:56,860 S1: come back, we're going to be taking more questions today. 232 00:13:56,860 --> 00:13:59,819 S1: So if you've got a question call right now that 233 00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:06,660 S1: number is 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. Lines 234 00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:08,740 S1: are filling up, but at the moment at least we've 235 00:14:08,740 --> 00:14:11,420 S1: still got room for you. Here's our goal today to 236 00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:14,220 S1: encourage you to point you back to God's Word, to 237 00:14:14,220 --> 00:14:17,100 S1: help you see God as your ultimate treasure and money, 238 00:14:17,140 --> 00:14:28,260 S1: a tool to accomplish his purposes. We'll be right back. Hey, 239 00:14:28,260 --> 00:14:30,380 S1: thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. 240 00:14:30,380 --> 00:14:32,660 S1: I'm Rob Westwell. The lines are filling up, so we'll 241 00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:36,180 S1: head right back to the phones. We'll go out to Minnesota. Catherine, 242 00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:37,540 S1: go right ahead. How can I help you? 243 00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:42,300 S4: Hi. I heard the other day you guys talking about 244 00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:46,820 S4: Qcds and IRAs. And so I have 15 years to retirement. 245 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,680 S4: I have a 401 K and I'm wondering, should I 246 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,120 S4: open an IRA now? In preparation so that I don't 247 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,920 S4: have to worry about that. How you can't roll it over. 248 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,920 S4: And do the qkd thing? 249 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,920 S1: Yeah. Uh, you wouldn't need to do it right now. 250 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,280 S1: You would just keep contributing to that. 401 K. Uh, 251 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,040 S1: focus on long term growth, not the QC qkd strategy yet. Um, 252 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,160 S1: and then down the road, what you would want to 253 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,920 S1: do is open an IRA when you get closer to retirement. 254 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,880 S1: You then roll over your 401 K into the traditional IRA. 255 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,920 S1: And then once you reach age 70.5, at that point, 256 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,040 S1: you'd be able to begin making qualified charitable distributions directly 257 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,840 S1: from that IRA. It's very common. It's easy to do later, 258 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,000 S1: and it would give you the option to be able 259 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,600 S1: to get that money out without ever paying any tax 260 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,440 S1: on it. Because as you know, when you pull money 261 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,450 S1: out of the the traditional 401 K or the traditional 262 00:15:46,450 --> 00:15:49,450 S1: IRA as a withdrawal or a distribution, it's added to 263 00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:52,490 S1: your taxable income when it goes straight to a charity 264 00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:55,290 S1: and doesn't come to you first, then that's a qualified 265 00:15:55,290 --> 00:15:59,890 S1: charitable distribution and that is excluded from your income. So 266 00:16:00,010 --> 00:16:01,690 S1: you can do that down the road, though there's not 267 00:16:01,690 --> 00:16:03,890 S1: any reason to open that right now. 268 00:16:04,050 --> 00:16:07,130 S4: Okay, great. I was I think I must have misunderstood 269 00:16:07,490 --> 00:16:10,410 S4: and didn't think it was roll over. But it is. 270 00:16:10,890 --> 00:16:13,810 S1: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. If you have a traditional 401 K 271 00:16:13,850 --> 00:16:17,250 S1: pre-tax and I assume that's what you have, you've been 272 00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:19,850 S1: getting a deduction as the money is going gone in. 273 00:16:19,850 --> 00:16:23,570 S1: It's been excluded from your taxable income. That's a traditional 274 00:16:23,570 --> 00:16:27,090 S1: 401 K that can be rolled to an IRA once 275 00:16:27,090 --> 00:16:30,490 S1: you separate from service. Um, and then as soon as 276 00:16:30,490 --> 00:16:33,210 S1: it gets in the IRA, as long as you're 70.5, 277 00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:36,690 S1: you now are eligible to do a qualified charitable distribution. 278 00:16:37,090 --> 00:16:39,610 S4: Okay, great. That's what I needed. Thanks for your help. 279 00:16:39,930 --> 00:16:42,930 S1: All right. Absolutely. Catherine. Lord bless you. Thanks for calling. Uh, 280 00:16:42,930 --> 00:16:45,670 S1: to Kathleen. She's in Indianapolis. Go ahead. 281 00:16:46,830 --> 00:16:50,030 S5: Hi. So my mom is selling her home. She's 87 282 00:16:50,030 --> 00:16:54,470 S5: years old. To my youngest brother. And in the meantime, 283 00:16:54,990 --> 00:17:00,230 S5: he doesn't have a job, so he. She's going to 284 00:17:00,230 --> 00:17:04,670 S5: be the mortgagor until he gets a new job and 285 00:17:04,670 --> 00:17:10,150 S5: then can get a regular mortgage. My question is, should 286 00:17:10,150 --> 00:17:13,869 S5: she put the house in the trust in a trust 287 00:17:13,869 --> 00:17:18,350 S5: and then the trust sell him the house? And if so, 288 00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:21,389 S5: a revocable or irrevocable. And that's the only asset she 289 00:17:21,390 --> 00:17:23,750 S5: has is the house. 290 00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:28,430 S1: MM. Yeah. Well, um, it's a good question. I mean, 291 00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:31,390 S1: the trust may not be ideal here because it doesn't 292 00:17:31,390 --> 00:17:34,670 S1: solve the financing issue. The lenders look at the borrower's 293 00:17:34,670 --> 00:17:41,149 S1: ability to pay. Uh, and then there's legal and administrative complexity. Um, 294 00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:44,679 S1: and it, you know, it could create challenges down the road. So, 295 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,040 S1: I mean, I think the first issue is how to 296 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,480 S1: go about the sale. Um, so she wants even though 297 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,440 S1: he's not in a position to qualify for a mortgage, 298 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,399 S1: does she want to go ahead and affect the sale 299 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,480 S1: to him now, or does she just want to have 300 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,760 S1: the efficient transfer of the property to him at death? 301 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,560 S1: What is she trying to accomplish today? 302 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,680 S5: His name on the deed. And it's his house now 303 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:14,120 S5: and he's already living there. And, uh, I guess the 304 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,040 S5: big goal here is that we talked with an attorney 305 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:22,320 S5: and the attorney, elder attorney, and we were doing 0% 306 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,840 S5: interest in him paying for the insurance and the taxes 307 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,320 S5: as well. And then he was just going to be 308 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,840 S5: making a monthly payment, which would be the same monthly 309 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,360 S5: payment he was paying on his other house and until 310 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,360 S5: he could get refinanced. 311 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,400 S1: But she would be self-financing it. Is that right? She 312 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,699 S1: would essentially be holding the note for him. 313 00:18:45,619 --> 00:18:48,500 S5: Right? She would be the mortgagor. And I've already drawn 314 00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:53,020 S5: up a mortgage contract. But now the big question is 315 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:58,460 S5: benefits for putting it in a trust since she's 87 316 00:18:58,460 --> 00:19:04,220 S5: years old and would not be able to, uh, he 317 00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:07,980 S5: couldn't afford like, you know, her life expectancy type of 318 00:19:08,020 --> 00:19:11,859 S5: a mortgage, uh, payment. He would, he would need to 319 00:19:11,859 --> 00:19:15,500 S5: do more like a traditional 30 year mortgage payment where 320 00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:19,460 S5: this is going to be a life expectancy thing. We're 321 00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:24,619 S5: also thinking if she's very healthy, but, you know, if 322 00:19:24,619 --> 00:19:28,260 S5: she needs to be in assisted living at some point 323 00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:30,340 S5: in time and the five of us aren't able to 324 00:19:30,380 --> 00:19:36,140 S5: take care of her, then she would have to have Medicare. Okay. Yeah, 325 00:19:36,460 --> 00:19:39,540 S5: I always get those confused. To help take care of her. 326 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:44,960 S5: And it would need to make. We wouldn't want the 327 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,600 S5: asset to be if she passes away, for example. Even then. 328 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,240 S5: Then what happens if she's the mortgagee mortgage or like 329 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,760 S5: she's the the company, so to speak? 330 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,280 S1: Yeah. All right. There's several things going on here. Let 331 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,080 S1: me let me break this down and talk about a 332 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,080 S1: few of them and we'll pick it up after the break. 333 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:04,879 S1: So I mean, I think the first is how to 334 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,560 S1: go about the sale to get his name on the deed. 335 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,800 S1: So she's trying to essentially sell it to her son 336 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,000 S1: and let him pay over time at 0% interest and 337 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,320 S1: act as the bank. Now, the IRS says you can't 338 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,239 S1: truly do a 0% interest. They require what's called a 339 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,920 S1: minimum interest rate. If she charges zero, they're going to 340 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,720 S1: impute interest and pretend she charged it anyway. It's a 341 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,200 S1: missing interest treated as a gift that's going to trigger 342 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,880 S1: gift tax reporting, which is okay. But you just need 343 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,760 S1: to know that and it's going to eat into the 344 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,680 S1: lifetime estate gift exemption. Um, so what she may want 345 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,090 S1: to do is charge a low but reasonable amount. Otherwise 346 00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:43,930 S1: it's going to be a gift, which again is fine. 347 00:20:44,090 --> 00:20:46,850 S1: And then she's giving up control because he owns the 348 00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:51,530 S1: home legally and she just becomes the lender at that point. 349 00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:53,570 S1: And then she's going to want to secure the loan 350 00:20:53,570 --> 00:20:56,770 S1: with a promissory note, and then there'll be a mortgage 351 00:20:56,770 --> 00:20:58,690 S1: or a deed of trust. I would get a real 352 00:20:58,690 --> 00:21:02,650 S1: estate attorney to do that. So it's all legal and compliant. 353 00:21:02,650 --> 00:21:06,090 S1: And then if she's selling it below market value, uh, 354 00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:10,090 S1: you know, again, she's going to need to, uh, determine 355 00:21:10,090 --> 00:21:13,130 S1: whether there's any capital gains on the sale. You still 356 00:21:13,130 --> 00:21:16,850 S1: may need to, you know, pay that. And, uh, she 357 00:21:16,850 --> 00:21:19,490 S1: would need to report it as a gift. Uh, so 358 00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:22,369 S1: I think those are the key ideas with the sale. Now, 359 00:21:22,410 --> 00:21:24,370 S1: when we come back, we'll talk about whether it makes 360 00:21:24,369 --> 00:21:27,770 S1: sense for him, the owner, to put it in a trust. 361 00:21:27,770 --> 00:21:31,690 S1: And then what about her proceeds with regard to Medicaid? 362 00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:34,010 S1: We'll tackle that after the break. We'll be right back. 363 00:21:41,150 --> 00:21:43,470 S1: Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. 364 00:21:43,470 --> 00:21:45,830 S1: I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today 365 00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:49,590 S1: 800 525 7000. You can call right now. Uh, before 366 00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:52,590 S1: the break, we were talking to Kathleen in Indianapolis. Her 367 00:21:52,590 --> 00:21:57,070 S1: mother is selling her home to her younger brother, uh, 368 00:21:57,070 --> 00:22:00,270 S1: right now, but he can't qualify for a mortgage. He's 369 00:22:00,270 --> 00:22:02,710 S1: not working, so she's going to hold the note B 370 00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:05,310 S1: seller financing. She'd like to do it at 0%, which 371 00:22:05,310 --> 00:22:07,750 S1: we talked about. Just the implications of that from the 372 00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:12,150 S1: IRS standpoint and it being considered a gift, both the 0% 373 00:22:12,150 --> 00:22:15,389 S1: interest as well as if she sells it below market 374 00:22:15,390 --> 00:22:18,389 S1: in terms of the asking price and the importance of 375 00:22:18,430 --> 00:22:22,710 S1: getting this all documented and deeded correctly so that it's 376 00:22:22,750 --> 00:22:26,270 S1: a true sale. She was asking though, beyond that, is 377 00:22:26,270 --> 00:22:29,670 S1: it important that it goes into a trust? And then secondly, 378 00:22:29,710 --> 00:22:33,430 S1: how does this affect her, uh, estate plan if she 379 00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:36,230 S1: needs skilled care down the road? And, uh, you know, 380 00:22:36,270 --> 00:22:39,440 S1: what would protect the assets that she has if she 381 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,119 S1: needs to spend dramatically on, you know, that type of 382 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,160 S1: skilled care. So in terms of him putting the home 383 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,400 S1: in a trust, if that's what you're talking about, you know, 384 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,200 S1: that can can be fine. Um, you know, that really 385 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,679 S1: doesn't have any effect on the sale. The, the advantage 386 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,080 S1: to him would be now that home, which is a 387 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,800 S1: part of his estate, avoids probate passes directly to his heirs. 388 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,680 S1: No court involvement and continuity if he becomes incapacitated. So 389 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,880 S1: his successor trustee could manage or sell the home without 390 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,720 S1: any court involvement if he became incapacitated. And he could 391 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,440 S1: specify who receives the home and the income. And and 392 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,920 S1: it's also private, but there's no asset protection there with 393 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,840 S1: a revocable trust. It's not shielded from anything and there's 394 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,520 S1: no tax advantage. Um, with regard to your mom protecting herself, 395 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,240 S1: this is the bigger issue. If she needs long term 396 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,320 S1: care and with regard to a Medicaid spend down or 397 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,780 S1: if he passes before She does. Um, and before it's 398 00:23:40,780 --> 00:23:44,620 S1: paid off. So to protect herself as the lender, she 399 00:23:44,619 --> 00:23:47,100 S1: needs to treat this like a real loan. So she 400 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,620 S1: needs to have a recorded mortgage or deed of trust 401 00:23:49,619 --> 00:23:52,580 S1: and a promissory note with clear terms that's going to 402 00:23:52,580 --> 00:23:56,260 S1: ensure she has a legal claim on the house, a lien, 403 00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:59,740 S1: so she gets paid if he dies or refinances or 404 00:23:59,740 --> 00:24:03,300 S1: the house is sold. If he passed away first, the 405 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:07,100 S1: loan doesn't disappear. His estate would continue payments or pay 406 00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:10,220 S1: off the loan because the lien is attached to the house, 407 00:24:10,420 --> 00:24:14,020 S1: regardless of whether the ownership changes. And then if she 408 00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:17,300 S1: needs skilled care, I would encourage you to have her 409 00:24:17,540 --> 00:24:21,660 S1: do some Medicaid planning with an elder law attorney. And 410 00:24:21,660 --> 00:24:26,780 S1: that attorney may suggest what's called an irrevocable trust, which 411 00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:30,500 S1: is a strategy to protect assets in the, you know, 412 00:24:30,540 --> 00:24:33,060 S1: in the case of in the case of needing skilled 413 00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:36,220 S1: care in this season of life can work on spend 414 00:24:36,220 --> 00:24:40,760 S1: down planning and converting assets to exempt resources. But there 415 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,000 S1: is a five year lookback rule, so the timing matters 416 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,200 S1: on that. But you would need to get with an 417 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,640 S1: attorney or she would to do that kind of planning. 418 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,439 S1: So I know there's a lot there. There was a 419 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,560 S1: lot of complexity to that question, but is that helpful 420 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,399 S1: at all? Kathleen. 421 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,560 S5: Actually, I have all of that already and we have 422 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,720 S5: spoken with an elder attorney. My question really was, should 423 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,000 S5: she put the house in the trust prior to the sale? 424 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,600 S5: We already have all the documentation, and I understand all 425 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,960 S5: of the stuff you said about the minimum interest. We 426 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,280 S5: did talk with the elder attorney about that as well, 427 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,600 S5: but the real question is, should she put the house 428 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,960 S5: in the trust and then let the trust sell the 429 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,639 S5: house to my brother? 430 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:27,360 S1: No. Yeah. Usually. No. There's really not any benefit by 431 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,960 S1: putting the house in the trust prior to the sale. 432 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:35,520 S1: It just adds complexity because, you know, in terms of, um, 433 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,090 S1: you know, why a trust before a sale isn't necessary. 434 00:25:39,130 --> 00:25:42,369 S1: I mean, she's selling the property, not holding it long term, 435 00:25:42,410 --> 00:25:45,250 S1: holding it long term. The key transaction is the deed 436 00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:47,690 S1: going to the sun and the mortgage or the lien 437 00:25:47,690 --> 00:25:50,530 S1: coming back to her. The trust doesn't do anything to 438 00:25:50,570 --> 00:25:54,490 S1: improve the sale, the financing or her protection as a lender. 439 00:25:54,609 --> 00:25:56,850 S1: So I'm just not seeing any benefit to that. 440 00:25:57,730 --> 00:26:01,810 S5: Except for that she wants to pass stuff down to 441 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:05,730 S5: the rest of us. The other four kids. And if 442 00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:11,490 S5: she passed away, then what happens to the mortgage agreement 443 00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:14,850 S5: if it doesn't go to her? It doesn't have to 444 00:26:14,850 --> 00:26:18,050 S5: go through probate. And, you know, then. 445 00:26:18,530 --> 00:26:21,290 S1: Yeah. So the key idea here is that the mortgage 446 00:26:21,290 --> 00:26:23,530 S1: or the note is an asset, just like a bank 447 00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:26,409 S1: loan would be. So if she dies, the loan doesn't disappear. 448 00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:30,050 S1: The son either owes the remaining balance or has to 449 00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:33,970 S1: keep making payments. And, you know, if she has a will, 450 00:26:33,970 --> 00:26:37,190 S1: no trust the mortgage becomes part of her estate. Payments 451 00:26:37,230 --> 00:26:40,469 S1: go through her estate. If she has a revocable trust, 452 00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:43,550 S1: the mortgage, it could be owned by the trust and 453 00:26:43,550 --> 00:26:46,350 S1: the payments go directly to the trust and then to 454 00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:50,510 S1: the beneficiaries with no probate. Um, and in terms of 455 00:26:50,510 --> 00:26:53,790 S1: other siblings, you know, she just needs to think about, 456 00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:58,750 S1: you know, how she's treating her son versus the other siblings. Um, 457 00:26:58,750 --> 00:27:01,030 S1: with regard to how she's handling this, but if she 458 00:27:01,030 --> 00:27:04,110 S1: sells it at market value, that's not an issue. Um, 459 00:27:04,109 --> 00:27:07,430 S1: so typically you would just treat this as a normal asset. 460 00:27:07,550 --> 00:27:10,989 S1: The mortgage stays in place, the payments continue. All the 461 00:27:10,990 --> 00:27:15,070 S1: siblings benefit over time. Um, you know, so I don't 462 00:27:15,070 --> 00:27:16,910 S1: really see, I mean, you could, you could check with 463 00:27:16,910 --> 00:27:21,470 S1: an attorney, uh, on, you know, how you should structure this, 464 00:27:21,470 --> 00:27:25,310 S1: but ultimately having a revocable living trust is going to 465 00:27:25,310 --> 00:27:27,750 S1: create more efficiency. But at the end of the day, 466 00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:30,470 S1: that mortgage is a part of the, the full estate 467 00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:33,270 S1: and would need to be either continued to be paid 468 00:27:33,270 --> 00:27:37,119 S1: on or paid out upon a sale to the the 469 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,200 S1: siblings at her death. So I think you've, you've got, uh, 470 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,360 S1: you could place that mortgage in the trust, which would 471 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,359 S1: be kind of the way to go here because he 472 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,720 S1: is now the owner of the home after all this 473 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,400 S1: is said and done. Anyway, I hope that helps. Kathleen, we've, uh, 474 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,040 S1: we've kind of worked our way through all this stuff, 475 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,600 S1: and I know it can get complicated. At the end 476 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,119 S1: of the day, you probably do need to get some 477 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,720 S1: some legal counsel, both on the estate planning side, which 478 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,480 S1: it sounds like you've already got somebody there. Uh, you've 479 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,439 S1: already got the elder care, but you probably need a 480 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,639 S1: real estate attorney to actually make sure that everything is 481 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,640 S1: structured properly with the sale of that home. Thanks for calling. 482 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,879 S1: Let's go to Marvin in Illinois. Go ahead. 483 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,920 S6: Thank you sir. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Um, 484 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:22,360 S6: my question is, I'm retired, my wife. I've been self-employed 485 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,280 S6: all my life, so I've contributed to my wife's 401 K. 486 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:31,360 S6: She's retiring next month, but probably won't take her Social 487 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,340 S6: Security for a year because she'll get more. I'm still 488 00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:39,820 S6: debating her on that. And so that's our situation now. 489 00:28:39,820 --> 00:28:42,100 S6: She has a good friend of hers who wants to 490 00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:46,420 S6: move out this way. She's a renter. And I suggested, well, 491 00:28:46,420 --> 00:28:49,540 S6: she can find a house at a reasonable price that 492 00:28:49,540 --> 00:28:53,020 S6: we can pay for cash. Why don't we buy a 493 00:28:53,020 --> 00:28:57,060 S6: house and rent to her? And now our investment will 494 00:28:57,060 --> 00:29:00,740 S6: give us a monthly income and it will gain in value. 495 00:29:01,420 --> 00:29:05,940 S1: Yeah. Good question. Where this can work well is when 496 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:09,060 S1: you have plenty of savings beyond this purchase. So you're 497 00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:14,420 S1: not straining your liquidity by making the purchase. Number two, 498 00:29:14,460 --> 00:29:17,740 S1: you want rental income and you're okay being a landlord, 499 00:29:17,740 --> 00:29:20,220 S1: even with a friend, it's still a business. And that 500 00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:23,860 S1: makes it slightly more complicated, especially if something goes awry. 501 00:29:24,660 --> 00:29:28,260 S1: Number three, the numbers make sense, meaning that the rent 502 00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:30,700 S1: is going to cover the property taxes and the insurance 503 00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:35,150 S1: and the maintenance and the vacancy and still produces a 504 00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:39,590 S1: reasonable return. And where you're thinking long term. So I 505 00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:41,790 S1: think those are kind of the key ideas that you 506 00:29:41,790 --> 00:29:45,830 S1: need to consider here. Um, you know, the biggest risks 507 00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:50,110 S1: is mis mixing friendship and business. That's probably the number 508 00:29:50,110 --> 00:29:52,750 S1: one concern. What if they pay late? What if they 509 00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:55,070 S1: move out? What if they damage the property? What if 510 00:29:55,070 --> 00:29:58,030 S1: they can't pay? You know, it could strain or ruin 511 00:29:58,070 --> 00:30:01,070 S1: the relationship. And then I think it's also important that 512 00:30:01,070 --> 00:30:04,750 S1: you ask yourself, would we still buy this property if 513 00:30:04,750 --> 00:30:07,989 S1: our friend wasn't the renter? And if not, that's a 514 00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:10,310 S1: red flag. I also think it needs to fit within 515 00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:13,750 S1: your overall retirement plan. Does it fit with your retirement 516 00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:18,310 S1: income plan and will it generate the the return that 517 00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:22,270 S1: you need that you could generate some other way without 518 00:30:22,270 --> 00:30:25,310 S1: the complexity of becoming a landlord? So I think those 519 00:30:25,310 --> 00:30:27,229 S1: are the few of the things to consider. Thanks for 520 00:30:27,230 --> 00:30:35,690 S1: your call. We'll be right back. Great to have you 521 00:30:35,690 --> 00:30:37,729 S1: with us today on Faith and Finance Live. Hey, if 522 00:30:37,730 --> 00:30:41,570 S1: you're looking for an advisor who shares your values, who's 523 00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:45,210 S1: met high standards and character and competence have been given 524 00:30:45,210 --> 00:30:48,010 S1: a reference by their pastor and their clients, they've been 525 00:30:48,010 --> 00:30:51,050 S1: trained to bring biblical advice, advice that aligns with your 526 00:30:51,050 --> 00:30:54,850 S1: values as a Christ follower. Well, that's a certified Kingdom advisor. 527 00:30:54,850 --> 00:30:58,490 S1: They meet each of those requirements, and it's the only 528 00:30:58,770 --> 00:31:04,010 S1: industry accepted designation in financial services for biblically wise financial advice. 529 00:31:04,010 --> 00:31:07,450 S1: There's now more than 2000 K's in the US and Canada, 530 00:31:07,570 --> 00:31:09,570 S1: and you can find one in your area. Just head 531 00:31:09,570 --> 00:31:14,210 S1: to find a k.com. Let's head back to the phones. 532 00:31:14,210 --> 00:31:16,250 S1: We're going to go down to Florida John. Go ahead. 533 00:31:17,730 --> 00:31:20,770 S7: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I just have 534 00:31:20,770 --> 00:31:24,930 S7: a question. Um, I am in the process of thinking 535 00:31:25,210 --> 00:31:27,890 S7: to buy a second home. Uh, that will be like 536 00:31:27,930 --> 00:31:32,510 S7: a retirement home for us. I have about $120,000 in 537 00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:37,470 S7: the 41K. I have about $30,000 in savings, and I 538 00:31:37,510 --> 00:31:42,590 S7: have about $200,000 in equity in my house. The question is, 539 00:31:42,590 --> 00:31:45,590 S7: should I tap into my savings, my 401 K or 540 00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:50,110 S7: the the equity of the house to give the down payment? 541 00:31:50,110 --> 00:31:52,870 S7: And we're going to use that as a rental income. 542 00:31:53,550 --> 00:31:56,630 S1: Okay. Yeah. So, you know, I think the first thing 543 00:31:56,630 --> 00:32:00,070 S1: you need to do is just make sure you decide 544 00:32:00,070 --> 00:32:02,910 S1: this is something you want to do and why. Um, 545 00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:06,590 S1: you know, is this to produce income? Is it really 546 00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:09,390 S1: a lifestyle decision? Is it where you would ultimately like 547 00:32:09,390 --> 00:32:12,710 S1: to move? Just kind of clarify for yourself, you know, 548 00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:15,510 S1: why you're doing it. And then with regard to, uh, 549 00:32:15,510 --> 00:32:17,270 S1: you know, how you would pay for it, I think, 550 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:20,190 S1: you know, you've identified some great options. Some are better 551 00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:23,270 S1: than others. Let's walk through that. So what is the 552 00:32:23,510 --> 00:32:25,870 S1: asking price of this home currently? Do you know. 553 00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:27,710 S7: $250,000? 554 00:32:28,030 --> 00:32:31,320 S1: Okay. And what would you be looking to put down? 555 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,640 S7: Um, we're thinking about ten, 15% down. 556 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,480 S1: Okay. Got it. So I. 557 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:37,720 S7: Don't. 558 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:37,960 S1: Have. 559 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,200 S7: To liquidate all my all my savings. 560 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,160 S1: Okay. Yep. So if, you know, if you put 10%, 561 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,880 S1: that'd be 25,000. If you put 15, we're talking 37 five. 562 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,600 S1: And you could have you looked at the mortgage payment 563 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,840 S1: that you'd have based on today's rates, especially given that 564 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,360 S1: those the rate will be a little higher because this 565 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,680 S1: is a second home. Uh, plus the taxes and the insurance, 566 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,360 S1: you feel like you can cover that pretty well in 567 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,000 S1: your budget. 568 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,000 S7: Uh, yes, I will be shy. Probably a couple hundred dollars. Uh, 569 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,040 S7: but the idea is to, um, rent the home and 570 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,080 S7: later on, about six, seven years, eight years from now, uh, 571 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,840 S7: sell the current home that we are and using that 572 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,960 S7: equity to pay it off. The other home. 573 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,880 S8: Yeah. Okay. So we don't, we won't. 574 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,420 S7: Have a mortgage once we would retire. 575 00:33:29,780 --> 00:33:32,380 S1: Yeah. And how far off his retirement? 576 00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:35,580 S7: About eight years. Seven. Eight years. 577 00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:38,540 S1: Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, the only issue with 578 00:33:38,540 --> 00:33:40,740 S1: that is and again, we'll talk about where to pull 579 00:33:40,740 --> 00:33:43,220 S1: the funds from if you decided to do this. But 580 00:33:43,220 --> 00:33:45,820 S1: that's quite a long time in the sense that a 581 00:33:45,860 --> 00:33:47,660 S1: lot can happen over the next eight years. And if 582 00:33:47,660 --> 00:33:49,979 S1: we were to get into a recession and maybe you 583 00:33:50,020 --> 00:33:52,459 S1: went for a period of time with no renter or, 584 00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:56,100 S1: you know, the rents weren't as high as they are today. 585 00:33:56,380 --> 00:33:58,740 S1: And the fact that you're not able to support this 586 00:33:58,740 --> 00:34:01,660 S1: with your current cash flow without a renter is just 587 00:34:01,660 --> 00:34:03,300 S1: something to keep in mind. I mean, the last thing 588 00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:05,620 S1: you'd want would be to get stuck with this house, 589 00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:08,859 S1: be underwater every month, chew up your savings, you know, 590 00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:12,460 S1: before you get to the place where you're able to retire, 591 00:34:12,500 --> 00:34:14,940 S1: sell your current home, pay it off, and then the 592 00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:17,580 S1: whole picture changes quite a bit at that point. But 593 00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:19,620 S1: we got to get between where we are today and 594 00:34:19,620 --> 00:34:22,739 S1: where that point is, which is eight years down the road, 595 00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:25,420 S1: and just make sure we can weather kind of a 596 00:34:25,420 --> 00:34:29,669 S1: worst case scenario Economically and in your own, you know, 597 00:34:29,710 --> 00:34:32,510 S1: financial life in terms of your job security and so forth. 598 00:34:32,510 --> 00:34:35,509 S1: So just just think through that. Um, in terms of 599 00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:37,630 S1: where to pull it from, let's talk through these options. 600 00:34:37,630 --> 00:34:42,989 S1: So what do you have today in savings about 30,000. Okay. 601 00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:45,630 S1: And would that include what I call your emergency fund 602 00:34:45,630 --> 00:34:46,870 S1: or do you have that separate? 603 00:34:48,150 --> 00:34:51,069 S7: Uh, I would say partially separate. 604 00:34:52,590 --> 00:34:55,030 S1: Okay. What do you all spend on a monthly basis? 605 00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:57,150 S1: Typically on average, all in. 606 00:34:59,270 --> 00:35:01,150 S7: What would I spend every month? 607 00:35:01,469 --> 00:35:03,790 S1: What is your budget right now on a monthly basis? 608 00:35:03,830 --> 00:35:06,029 S1: If you put everything in that you spend money on 609 00:35:06,030 --> 00:35:07,550 S1: in a typical month right now. 610 00:35:08,590 --> 00:35:11,870 S7: I would say about $6,000. Okay. Together. 611 00:35:12,270 --> 00:35:14,230 S1: Yeah. So I would really love for you to have 612 00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:18,030 S1: in your emergency fund, you know, at least 20,000. Better 613 00:35:18,030 --> 00:35:22,150 S1: yet closer to 40,000. So, you know, if even if 100% 614 00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:25,230 S1: of that savings was your emergency fund, I don't think 615 00:35:25,230 --> 00:35:29,250 S1: that would be unrealistic just to cover the unexpected expenses 616 00:35:29,250 --> 00:35:31,610 S1: of life. How much do you have in savings outside 617 00:35:31,610 --> 00:35:32,770 S1: of the 30,000? 618 00:35:33,810 --> 00:35:35,450 S7: About 120,000. 619 00:35:35,969 --> 00:35:37,290 S1: Okay. And that's liquid. 620 00:35:39,130 --> 00:35:40,169 S7: That's a 401 K. 621 00:35:40,570 --> 00:35:44,009 S1: Oh, that's A41K. But how much other savings outside of 622 00:35:44,010 --> 00:35:45,529 S1: the 30. That's liquid. 623 00:35:46,850 --> 00:35:49,050 S7: Um I would say about 7000. 624 00:35:49,489 --> 00:35:52,530 S1: Okay. All right. So if you've got 37 and I 625 00:35:52,570 --> 00:35:56,810 S1: want you to have at a minimum, you know, 18,000. Um, 626 00:35:57,210 --> 00:35:58,930 S1: you know, I would say so that gives us somewhere 627 00:35:58,930 --> 00:36:01,370 S1: around 19 or 20,000 that you could use for this 628 00:36:01,370 --> 00:36:04,609 S1: down payment, which isn't quite to 10%. So you've got 629 00:36:04,610 --> 00:36:08,170 S1: 120,000 in A41K, and then you said the other option 630 00:36:08,170 --> 00:36:09,970 S1: would be to take a home equity line of credit 631 00:36:09,969 --> 00:36:12,130 S1: on your current home. What is that worth? 632 00:36:13,770 --> 00:36:15,290 S7: Uh, about 200,000. 633 00:36:15,610 --> 00:36:17,930 S1: All right. And do you have a mortgage on that equity? 634 00:36:18,489 --> 00:36:20,810 S7: Yeah, I do very, very small. 635 00:36:21,650 --> 00:36:25,170 S1: Okay. Got it. Yeah. So, you know, a better way 636 00:36:25,170 --> 00:36:28,150 S1: to decide would be, you know, number one, will I 637 00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:31,950 S1: still be financially secure if the property under underperforms? No 638 00:36:31,950 --> 00:36:37,190 S1: rental income, unexpected repairs, economic downturn. AM I keeping enough 639 00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:38,989 S1: in reserves? I'd like for you to have at least 640 00:36:38,989 --> 00:36:41,750 S1: 18,000 left over when this is all said and done. 641 00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:45,750 S1: And is this a want or an investment? You know, 642 00:36:45,790 --> 00:36:48,589 S1: if it's a lifestyle decision, I'd be conservative. If it's 643 00:36:48,590 --> 00:36:50,790 S1: an investment, you need to run the numbers. It sounds 644 00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:52,830 S1: like it's a little bit of a combination of both. 645 00:36:52,830 --> 00:36:55,470 S1: You're trying to it's ultimately where you'd want to go, 646 00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:58,230 S1: but in the meantime it needs to support itself. So 647 00:36:58,230 --> 00:37:01,350 S1: you just need to make sure the numbers make sense. Um, 648 00:37:01,350 --> 00:37:04,630 S1: I think the 401 K is really a last resort. Uh, 649 00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:08,950 S1: I would probably start with excess savings after reserves. So 650 00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:11,310 S1: it sounds like, you know, that's potentially as much as, 651 00:37:11,350 --> 00:37:17,070 S1: as 19,000. Um, and then perhaps beyond that, uh, you know, 652 00:37:17,110 --> 00:37:20,670 S1: take the home equity loan as the, as the next option. 653 00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:23,270 S1: I think my preference would be you delay the purchase 654 00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:27,640 S1: until you can save more and do 100% of the 655 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,029 S1: down payment out of your savings, but still have 18 656 00:37:32,030 --> 00:37:35,919 S1: to 20,000 at a minimum left over for emergencies and 657 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,000 S1: not have the added, you know, added debt on your 658 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,239 S1: house and the cost associated with taking out a home 659 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,320 S1: equity loan, which is not insignificant. You could spend a, 660 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,520 S1: you know, 1 to $2000 easy. Um, you know, just 661 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,919 S1: in the cost of putting that in place, which would 662 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,240 S1: mean you'd delay this purchase, you start, you keep saving 663 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,240 S1: like crazy right now to build up that 37,000 to, 664 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,399 S1: you know, closer to 50,000. Ideally, you put the full 665 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,319 S1: down payment down, you've got 3 to 4 months reserves. 666 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,040 S1: You didn't add any debt to your home. You didn't 667 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,280 S1: touch your 401 K. And then the only question is, 668 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:14,000 S1: you know, is this financially sound? Given what's possible that 669 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,279 S1: it might not always go perfectly, there might not always 670 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,800 S1: be a renter. You might have more maintenance than you thought. 671 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,280 S1: You know, those kinds of things. Does that all make sense? 672 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,120 S7: It makes sense. Thank you so much, I appreciate it. 673 00:38:24,340 --> 00:38:26,299 S1: All right, John, thanks for your call today, sir. God 674 00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:28,820 S1: bless you to Chicago. Rita, how can I help? 675 00:38:28,860 --> 00:38:31,900 S9: Yes. Good. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. 676 00:38:31,940 --> 00:38:35,940 S9: Greatly appreciate it. I have a question because it's so confusing. 677 00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:38,900 S9: When I met with my accountant, he told me, because 678 00:38:38,940 --> 00:38:44,259 S9: I'm turning 73 next week. So therefore I have an RMD, 679 00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:47,459 S9: the RMD. I have to bring it down. And what 680 00:38:47,460 --> 00:38:51,980 S9: it said is if I have until April 2027, but 681 00:38:51,980 --> 00:38:53,580 S9: I'm going to do I want to do it in 682 00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:57,339 S9: 2026 because that means I would have a significant tax 683 00:38:57,660 --> 00:38:59,980 S9: because I would have to do 2 in 1 year. 684 00:39:00,260 --> 00:39:03,140 S9: So I want to know, I want to do a 685 00:39:03,140 --> 00:39:06,620 S9: conversion to my ROC, but my investment company said, I 686 00:39:06,620 --> 00:39:09,740 S9: can't do an investment to a Roth because that's not 687 00:39:09,739 --> 00:39:13,060 S9: earning money, but I'm still putting money into my Roth. 688 00:39:14,660 --> 00:39:19,980 S1: Okay. Yeah. So the money currently is in an IRA, 689 00:39:19,980 --> 00:39:20,860 S1: is that right? 690 00:39:21,500 --> 00:39:22,940 S9: You're right. IRA. Right. 691 00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:29,550 S1: Okay. Uh, and so in terms of a qualified charitable distribution, 692 00:39:29,550 --> 00:39:32,989 S1: if you're over 70.5, you can give directly from your 693 00:39:32,989 --> 00:39:36,230 S1: IRA to your church, and that would count toward your 694 00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:40,950 S1: RMD and it's not a taxable event. So there's, it's 695 00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:44,950 S1: the most tax efficient way and it would satisfy, uh, 696 00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:49,390 S1: your required minimum. Um, so that that's the first part. 697 00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:51,790 S1: Now talk to me about the Roth conversion. What is 698 00:39:51,790 --> 00:39:52,990 S1: it you're wanting to do there? 699 00:39:53,790 --> 00:39:55,790 S9: Okay, so see, this is what the accountant said. He said, 700 00:39:55,830 --> 00:39:59,989 S9: first give give to my church. Second, pay my taxes 701 00:39:59,989 --> 00:40:01,790 S9: on the money that I'm going to take out the 702 00:40:01,790 --> 00:40:06,310 S9: ROI and then convert the balance into my Roth. 703 00:40:07,390 --> 00:40:10,870 S1: Okay. Uh, why are you are you needing to take 704 00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:12,950 S1: more out than your required minimum? 705 00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:15,670 S9: No. 706 00:40:16,110 --> 00:40:20,350 S1: Okay. So are you, are you comfortable giving the full 707 00:40:20,350 --> 00:40:22,969 S1: required minimum to your church or does that go? Is 708 00:40:22,969 --> 00:40:24,850 S1: that more than you'd want to give to your church? 709 00:40:24,850 --> 00:40:25,890 S1: The required minimum. 710 00:40:26,690 --> 00:40:29,450 S9: The required minimum is probably more than I want to give. 711 00:40:29,850 --> 00:40:32,730 S1: Okay, so whatever portion you want to give to your church, 712 00:40:32,730 --> 00:40:36,690 S1: do that as a qualified charitable distribution. The rest? Yes, 713 00:40:36,690 --> 00:40:38,170 S1: you're going to have to take it out as a 714 00:40:38,170 --> 00:40:42,009 S1: taxable distribution. It's going to get added to your taxable income. 715 00:40:42,210 --> 00:40:45,450 S1: And you can't then, uh, you know, put that back 716 00:40:45,450 --> 00:40:50,290 S1: into an IRA. Uh, that would not work. Um, you know, 717 00:40:50,330 --> 00:40:53,170 S1: because you would need earned income to do that. 718 00:40:53,210 --> 00:40:54,330 S9: Put it back in my Roth. 719 00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:59,290 S1: Uh, well, in terms of making a new contribution to 720 00:40:59,330 --> 00:41:02,330 S1: a Roth after you pay tax on it, uh, you 721 00:41:02,330 --> 00:41:04,330 S1: would have to have earned income. Do you have earned 722 00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:05,970 S1: income like wages? 723 00:41:06,050 --> 00:41:07,530 S9: I do. Okay. Yes. 724 00:41:08,250 --> 00:41:11,730 S1: Okay. Yeah. So, uh, you know, you would take the 725 00:41:11,730 --> 00:41:14,330 S1: portion out that you want to give to your church, 726 00:41:14,330 --> 00:41:16,850 S1: do that through a qualified charitable. The rest of it 727 00:41:16,850 --> 00:41:19,410 S1: take out as a distribution, it gets added to your 728 00:41:19,410 --> 00:41:22,939 S1: taxable income. Now, at that point, you've already paid tax 729 00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:24,420 S1: on it. You can do whatever you want, you can 730 00:41:24,420 --> 00:41:26,419 S1: spend it, you can put it in savings, you could 731 00:41:26,420 --> 00:41:29,379 S1: make a Roth IRA contribution. It's not a conversion, it's 732 00:41:29,380 --> 00:41:34,100 S1: a new contribution. But that requires that you have earned income. 733 00:41:34,140 --> 00:41:35,060 S1: Does that make sense? 734 00:41:36,140 --> 00:41:38,779 S9: Yes it does. So in other words, just say I 735 00:41:38,820 --> 00:41:42,020 S9: got 5000 after I do everything I can take and 736 00:41:42,020 --> 00:41:45,020 S9: turn around and put that back in my my original Roth. 737 00:41:46,100 --> 00:41:49,819 S1: Yes, you can make a new Roth contribution. There's no 738 00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:52,419 S1: age limit on that so long as you don't put 739 00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:55,219 S1: in more than you have earned income and you don't 740 00:41:55,219 --> 00:41:58,339 S1: go over the annual contribution limit, you know, which for 741 00:41:58,340 --> 00:42:01,300 S1: you would be $8,600 over the age of 50. 742 00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:07,180 S9: Correct. Okay. Now by me working, I put in my 743 00:42:07,180 --> 00:42:10,060 S9: money every month. I put in my let's do this. 744 00:42:10,060 --> 00:42:12,140 S1: You and I can talk a bit more off the air. Unfortunately, 745 00:42:12,140 --> 00:42:14,380 S1: I'm out of time. Stay right there. Faith and Finance 746 00:42:14,380 --> 00:42:16,900 S1: Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith fi. 747 00:42:16,940 --> 00:42:19,779 S1: Big thanks to Lisa, Omar, Taylor and Josh. We'll see 748 00:42:19,780 --> 00:42:20,340 S1: you tomorrow.