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S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and

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S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, equip,

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S1: and enlighten you to get out there and influence and

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S1: occupy until he comes. And on that note, may I

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S1: take just a few moments here to describe this month's

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S1: truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written the

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S1: book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I absolutely

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S1: love this book because it reminds us that in Christ

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S1: all things pass away. All things become new, that we

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S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature.

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S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far

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S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback.

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S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just

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S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we

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S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's

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S1: telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost and they're hurting.

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S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new

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S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give

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S1: a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven.

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S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is

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S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again

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S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in

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S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to

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S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor

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S1: Jack's book. Click it on, give a gift and you'll

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S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy

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S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you

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S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who

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S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing.

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S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners

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S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each

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S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which

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S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only

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S1: from my partial partners. So whether it's a one time

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S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and

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S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want

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S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58.

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S1: Or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Now

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S1: please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends, this is Janet Partial

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S1: and I want to welcome you to the best of

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S1: in the market. Today's program is prerecorded so our phone

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S1: lines are not open, but I do hope you'll enjoy

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S1: today's edition of The Best of In the Market with

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S1: Janet Parshall.

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S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

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S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge.

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S4: Americans worshiping government over God.

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S5: Extremely rare safety move by a major.

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S6: 17 years of Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.

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S1: Hi, friends. Welcome to in the market with Janet partial.

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S1: Thank you so much for choosing to spend the hour

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S1: with me. All right. If you listen with any regularity.

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S1: What do you hear? You hear me say you walk

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S1: through life with the Bible in one hand and the

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S1: newspaper in the other, and there's a bunch of reasons

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S1: to do that. The newspaper is important for you because

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S1: you are part of a trans cultural missionary experience. What

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S1: do I mean by that? Well, you're not of the world.

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S1: You're in the world, but you're supposed to go out

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S1: into the world. I know I don't get it, but

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S1: that's what God told us to do. We are in

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S1: a wicked and perverse generation, supposed to live our life

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S1: like lights that shine, the Scripture tells us. So that's

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S1: where we're supposed to go. Is it going to be easy?

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S1: Absolutely not. But Jesus gave us wonderful comfort in so

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S1: many ways, not the least of which was, listen, when

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S1: they hate you, remember they hated me first and they're

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S1: going to reject the message. And it's going to feel

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S1: an awful lot like they're rejecting you and they're going

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S1: to reject his truth, and it's going to be twisted,

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S1: and it's going to be turned into a bad news story.

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S1: And they're going to argue about it on Capitol Hill.

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S1: And the next thing you know, you've got the headlines

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S1: of the day. That's why you have to read the

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S1: newspaper to know what is being talked about in the

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S1: marketplace of ideas. But oh boy, oh boy, do you

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S1: need the Word of God? You need a plumb line.

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S1: The book of Amos talks about this Dwight L Moody

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S1: called the Word of God the straight stick of truth.

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S1: How do you measure those wicked and perverse ideas? If

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S1: you don't have a plumb line? You need some way,

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S1: a metric, if you will, to measure what is truth

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S1: and what is false is what are vain and hollow philosophies,

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S1: as it says in the book of Colossians, and what

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S1: are good, true, and right biblical principles and precepts, you'll

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S1: only be able to have that measuring stick, that rod,

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S1: that metric, if you will, if you're grounded in the

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S1: Word of God. And why am I giving you this

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S1: 50 cent little conversation before we start? Because nowhere is

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S1: this idea of walking through life with the Bible in

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S1: one hand and the newspaper in the other, more applicable

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S1: in this present age than on the topic of Israel. Oh,

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S1: if I can use a Yiddish saying, oh, there's so

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S1: much confusion in what's going on out there right now.

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S1: And anti-Semitism has been around since the beginning of time.

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S1: I mean, can you imagine a group of people, the Jews,

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S1: being hated simply because of who they are, not because

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S1: of what they've done, but simply because of who they are?

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S1: So Pharaoh and Haman and Herod and Hitler hate the

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S1: Jews not for what they've done, but simply who they are.

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S1: And it makes sense because underneath all of this is

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S1: not a cabal somewhere in the Middle East. It isn't

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S1: even a group of far right alt people who are

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S1: groypers and want to pretend that there is no such

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S1: thing as the nation of Israel. This is the enemy himself.

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S1: Can you not smell the sulfur? He's still prowling, seeking

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S1: whom he may devour. And he goes after the Jewish people. Why?

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S1: Because you know this from Sunday School 101. Where does

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S1: salvation come from? By the Jews. When Paul goes on

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S1: his missionary journeys, where does he go to the synagogues

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S1: first and then to the Gentiles? And we Gentiles have

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S1: been grafted on to the root of Jesse. And if

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S1: you have an argument with that, when you get to eternity,

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S1: you can have a conversation with the Lord, but it's

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S1: good enough for me that if he said, my plan

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S1: of salvation is going to come to mankind through the

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S1: Jewish people, I just stand in awe that he offered

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S1: his salvation at all, let alone through the Jewish people.

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S1: But it's time to roll up our sleeves, and it's

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S1: time to get off that diet of milk and get

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S1: on a diet of meat and really get some spiritual

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S1: heft on our bones, particularly when it comes to a

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S1: covenant keeping God a covenant without conditions. And that's what

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S1: this is all about. Well, I'm getting ahead of myself.

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S1: You have a far greater teacher than I could ever

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S1: be with us this hour, Doctor Charles Dyer. This is

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S1: a man who has served for 35 years on the

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S1: faculty and in the administration of not one, but three

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S1: different institutions, including 20 years at Dallas Theological Seminary and

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S1: ten years as provost at Moody Bible Institute. In 2010,

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S1: he became a professor of professor at large at Moody

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S1: from Moody Bible Institute and host of a fabulous radio

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S1: program I hope you all listen to Called The Land

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S1: and the book. It's heard on hundreds of stations all

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S1: across the United States. And for much of his time

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S1: as ministry, he has taken groups to Israel and other

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S1: parts of the Bible and to other lands of the Bible.

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S1: In addition to his speaking and teaching and guiding, he

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S1: has authored or co-authored numerous books, including The Rise of Babylon,

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S1: What's Next, The Christian Traveler's Guide to the Holy Land.

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S1: I actually took that book with me on one of

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S1: my many trips to Israel as well. It was like

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S1: a travel guide. Forget Fodor's, you need Dyer. It's much

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S1: better when you travel, but it's one of the books

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S1: that's so germane to the days in which we live

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S1: right now is called Who Owns the Land? An in-depth

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S1: look at the truth behind the Middle East conflict. Oh, Charlie,

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S1: I got a gazillion questions. I hope you got comfortable

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S1: shoes on, because we're going to walk a long way

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S1: this hour.

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S7: I'm ready. Janet, it's always fun to be with you. Thanks.

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S1: Thank you so much for being here. All right. Let

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S1: me start, if I can, with an article that came up. Um,

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S1: this is The Hague, and I'm going to do their geopolitics.

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S1: This is going to be the newspaper part of our

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S1: conversation as well as the Bible part, but the newspaper part.

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S1: So the US is going to intervene in the, quote,

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S1: genocide case against Israel that's been brought at the United

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S1: Nation's largest court by South Africa. I'm very sad to

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S1: report that other nations have joined in. Just this week,

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S1: the Netherlands and Iceland of all places have joined, saying

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S1: that Israel should stand trial for, quote, genocide evidence yet

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S1: to be produced. But that's their claim anyway, arguing that

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S1: the accusations are false. This is the US now, and

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S1: warning that a ruling against Israel could undermine international law.

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S1: It's why. Thank you Lord. The US is not a

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S1: part of the International Criminal Court. We have our own jurisprudence.

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S1: We don't bow in acquiescence to an international court. So

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S1: since late 2023, the International Court of Justice has been

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S1: considering whether Israel's military operations in Gaza, launched in response

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S1: to the October 7th attack amount to genocide under a

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S1: treaty drawn up after World War Two. So rather than

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S1: the world saying this was their nine over 11, this

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S1: was catastrophic. If you do it as a comp, between

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S1: how many lives we lost in the US on nine

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S1: over 11 versus how many lives were lost October 7th

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S1: and 2023. Their proportionality would be greater than ours. One

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S1: would have thought that would have created a sympathy and

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S1: a better understanding for the Jewish people. And instead, Charlie,

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S1: I feel like it opened the gates of hell and

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S1: anti-Semitism spiked. What's your take on that?

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S7: You're absolutely right, Janet. In fact, what I would end

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S7: up saying is one of them who call evil good

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S7: and good evil. Uh, when they threw out the charge

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S7: of genocide, there was genocide. It was committed by Hamas,

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S7: who came into Israel on October 7th and targeted Jews

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S7: just for being Jews. They targeted women and children just

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S7: for being Jewish. That's genocide. That's the attempt to wipe

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S7: out a group just because of who they are. Israel

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S7: responded by going after Hamas, which surrounded itself with its

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S7: own people, using them as human hostages, hiding out underneath

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S7: all of the hospitals and mosques. Israel was going after

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S7: the Hamas, but sadly some innocents were were killed. Israel

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S7: didn't target them, though. They targeted Hamas.

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S1: Exactly right. Well, we're just getting started, and you really

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S1: do need to get the book. Who owns the land?

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S1: It is written by Doctor Charlie Dyer. And I have

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S1: to tell you, he wrote this some time ago. It's

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S1: now been updated and revised. Why? Because. Because Israel's always

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S1: in the news. And quite frankly, it's always going to

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S1: be in the news. So get your thinking caps on

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S1: and get ready to think biblically and critically this hour

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S1: as we take a deeper look at the nation of

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S1: Israel and the character of God, does he keep his promises?

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S1: And is there such a thing as an unconditional covenant?

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S1: And if it is, does that apply to Israel? Back

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S1: after this? The Bible calls us to be bold and

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S1: courageous for the cause of the cross. But too often

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S1: we retreat because of fear of cultural blowback. That's why

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S1: I've chosen call to take a bold stand as this

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S1: month's truth tool discover how to overcome the fear of

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S1: intimidation or persecution. As for your copy of Called to

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S1: Take a Bold Stand, when you give a gift of

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S1: any amount to in the market, call 877. Janet 58.

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S1: That's 877. Janet 58. Or go to in the market

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S1: with Janet dot o r g. So in continuing our

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S1: conversation with Doctor Charles Dyer, host of The Land and

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S1: the book, I hope you listen. And because of all

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S1: the great technology we've got, you can listen any time anywhere.

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S1: So check it out. But also a prolific author and wow,

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S1: wouldn't you love to take a tour to Israel with

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S1: Doctor Dyer? It would be fabulous. So we were talking

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S1: about anti-Semitism in our first segment together and it literally

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S1: has spiked. Not I didn't see that one coming at all.

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S1: Spiked after October 7th, 2023. And if you start looking

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S1: at some of the numbers, they're really just unconscionable in

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S1: the US. According to the ADL, the Anti-Defamation League, they've

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S1: documented over 10,000 incidents between October 2023 and September 2024.

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S1: That is the highest number since they started tracking in 1979.

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S1: Europe has experienced a wave of anti-Semitism, with significant increases

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S1: in France, Germany, the UK. In Belgium, authorities increased security

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S1: around Jewish sites following increased tension in 2024, we saw

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S1: significant spikes in violence assaults up 21% from the previous year.

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S1: And here, even in the capital, Washington DC, a young

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S1: couple were at a Jewish event and they were shot

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S1: at point blank range. Outside the event, it's just absolutely stunning. So, Charlie,

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S1: let me just linger a little bit on the geopolitics

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S1: as a background before we get into the biblical response

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S1: for all of this. So the spike takes place. The

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S1: genesis of this from a mortal's perspective is this false

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S1: interpretation of what happened. These were people enjoying a music

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S1: festival and they were slaughtered. There's no other word for it.

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S1: And somehow Satan takes that, turns it around, and then

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S1: talks about the aggressor being Israel, not Hamas and their

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S1: allies that went in and just destroyed these lives. But

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S1: what we're seeing now is a response to this, is

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S1: this never ending form of harassment. And I wasn't around

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S1: in the late 30s when anti-Semitism was starting to rise

249
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S1: in the European continent, but it didn't go from nothing

250
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S1: to the camps. It started with incrementalism, incrementally moved its

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S1: way forward, writing Uden outside the stores, identifying people by

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S1: making them wear yellow stars, creating ghettos like they did

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S1: in Warsaw. And eventually the trains came and took them

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S1: to the ovens. So is it not imperative that we

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S1: understand that we have to shout never again now before

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S1: we wait for things to get worse, we've already had

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S1: synagogues assaulted. Just recently, a man, a deranged man, plows

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S1: into a synagogue and only by God's mercy. That place

259
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S1: was also a daycare center, and no children were in

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S1: that part of the building. And thanks to a local

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S1: hero who worked at the temple, he managed to make

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S1: sure that that man was never going to hurt anybody

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S1: else again. So this is the the rapidity, the acceleration

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S1: and the variance is stunning to me. Talk to me

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S1: about this.

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S7: You're absolutely right. In fact, I think what part of

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S7: the problem is Americans are historically bad when it comes

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S7: to history and geography. You know, the generation today looks

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S7: at the Gulf War in 1991 as ancient history, let

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S7: alone World War Two. But we don't know history and

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S7: we don't know geography, and yet we're so important. Well,

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S7: news is important, sadly. And you kept mentioning newspapers. Newspapers

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S7: are good because at least for most of them, they

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S7: have to report facts and verify they have an editorial staff.

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S7: But most people are going to social media and they're

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S7: getting their news from fake news from social media. And

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S7: the words that got bandied about immediately were genocide, colonialism,

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S7: attacks on indigenous people, and they were all directed against Israel,

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S7: who were in fact the indigenous people, who were the

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S7: ones who were victims of genocide. But the words got

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S7: twisted around. And because Americans don't know history, they accepted

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S7: what they were hearing on social media and began following it.

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S7: We need to have the ability to know what truth is,

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S7: to find reliable sources. And then once we do, to

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S7: have the courage to stand up and say, no, that's

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S7: not right. That's not what happened.

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S1: Yeah, exactly.

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S7: Right. Yes. I was gonna say sadly, too few did that.

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S1: Yeah, 1,000%. So where does it end? Movements, by the

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S1: very definition, have a way of going somewhere. This. This

291
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S1: just doesn't keep going. And then dissipate one day. This

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S1: builds to a crescendo. And people have said, if we

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S1: don't stop this now, lives are going to be lost. Well, Charlie,

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S1: we've already lost lives. And I just keep wondering how

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S1: many more and what is it going to take to

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S1: turn this around?

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S7: Well, and sadly, we know the end result is there's

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S7: coming a time on this world when Satan is going

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S7: to try and have free reign, and he's going to

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S7: try and wipe out the nation of Israel. Genesis chapter 12,

301
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S7: the woman clothed with the sun, moon, and 12 stars. Uh,

302
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S7: and Satan's going to go after her to wipe her out.

303
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S7: That's always been his motive. Uh, we also know historically

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S7: how this ends. If it's not, if it stops, not

305
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S7: put to it because of what happened in World War Two,

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S7: it led to a mass murder of over six, 6.5

307
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S7: million Jews. And it didn't stop until nations got involved

308
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S7: to stop the madman who was in charge of it all.

309
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S7: And that's another historical thing. Sadly, right now we're watching

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S7: with an Iranian madman, and so many nations in the

311
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S7: world are afraid to get involved. So it's really the

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S7: United States and Israel that are doing the heavy lifting

313
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S7: to stop what needs to be stopped for the sake

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S7: of the world.

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S1: I'm so glad you took us there. Let me ask you,

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S1: as a brother in the Lord, what goes through your

317
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S1: mind when you hear people say that the U.S. is

318
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S1: responding to the beck and call of Israel on this

319
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S1: Iran situation?

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S7: I go back to and again, I'm old enough and

321
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S7: I go back to when the. Your. The Islamic regime

322
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S7: took over in 1979. Uh, amazingly, it was the US

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S7: embassy that was attacked. It was the the hostages held

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S7: for 444 days. Uh, it was the Marine barracks in

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S7: Beirut that was bombed that killed over 200 US soldiers. Uh,

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S7: we're we've been at war with Iran since 1979. We've

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S7: just been unwilling to admit it. Uh, and their goal

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S7: is death to America. We're the great Satan in their minds.

329
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S7: Israel's just the the little Satan. So if we don't

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S7: stop them now, when will we and you stop them

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S7: before they get nuclear weapons or before they develop the

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S7: technology to deliver those to the United States? Yeah. Uh, yeah,

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S7: it's a lot easier to do it right now, like

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S7: we're doing it. And yet people try and blame Israel

335
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S7: for everything as if it's the tail wagging the dog.

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S1: So true. What do you respond or how do you

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S1: respond when people say, what are the American interests? You know,

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S1: the great isolationist perspective that says there are no American

339
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S1: interests here. Well, you just ticked off some historical ones

340
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S1: that I would say give basis to believe that there

341
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S1: is a preponderance of evidence here that the United States

342
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S1: security is very much in the crosshairs, as much as

343
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S1: Israel it is.

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S7: And the other one, I would say is, what are

345
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S7: you paying at your gas pump right now? Because Iran

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S7: decided to try and stop the flow of oil out

347
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S7: of the Straits of Hormuz. It affects not us directly,

348
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S7: but it affects us indirectly. And certainly our allies are affected.

349
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S7: And if we, Iran, can turn our allies against us

350
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S7: by doing that, and if we're unwilling to get involved,

351
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S7: we'll pay the price.

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S1: Yeah, 1,000%. And we could talk the rest of the

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S1: hour about energy independence. But let me just underscore, there's

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S1: a reason why we want to be independent when it

355
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S1: comes to our energy source. And we've got a whole

356
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S1: lot of natural fossil fuel here in the United States.

357
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S1: But being held by the toes, by the Strait of Hormuz,

358
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S1: so you cannot get access to oil, that's why you're

359
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S1: paying what you're paying. It will come down. But during

360
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S1: this continuous war, It's going to stay up there for

361
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S1: a bit. When we get back, let's roll up our

362
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S1: sleeves and really get into what we with the newspaper.

363
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,080
S1: Now let's what to get the word. What does the

364
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S1: word have to say about the nation of Israel back

365
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S1: after this? After Charles Dyer is with us, he is

366
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S1: the host of The Land and the book. He's a

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S1: very prolific author, written on multiple issues and is a

368
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S1: travel guide. If you ever get a chance to travel

369
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S1: to Israel with Charlie, you would really regret it if

370
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S1: you didn't take up that opportunity. A lot of our

371
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S1: conversation today emanates from one of his newer books. Actually,

372
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S1: it was older, but it's been revised and updated. It's

373
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S1: called Who Owns the Land, and it is an in-depth

374
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S1: look at the truth behind the Middle East conflict. Charlie,

375
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S1: this harkens back to something earlier you said that really

376
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S1: were ignorant. We just we don't know our recent history.

377
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S1: We don't know Bible history. And so we get confused

378
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S1: and we're taken captive by vain and hollow philosophies that

379
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S1: we see on social media platform. And we don't know

380
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S1: the facts. I, I love these men on the street

381
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S1: interviews when they'll say, they'll ask him questions about Israel

382
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S1: from the river to the sea. For example, they can't

383
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S1: name the river and they don't know what sea you're

384
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S1: talking about, but they just get up and chant it.

385
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S1: So let me go into the biblical part of this,

386
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S1: because I think this is the fascinating conversation. And actually,

387
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S1: without it, you're ignorant when it comes to what's happening

388
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S1: in the world. So let me start first with a

389
00:18:45,790 --> 00:18:49,310
S1: question that is working its way out in various iterations

390
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S1: right now. And that is, is there a distinction from

391
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S1: how you see it biblically between the Jewish people and

392
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S1: the nation of Israel?

393
00:18:56,590 --> 00:19:00,030
S7: Uh, no, that's the short answer. And I'll explain why

394
00:19:00,310 --> 00:19:02,109
S7: those who are trying to make that distinction are trying

395
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S7: to somehow say, well, the people who are in Israel today,

396
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S7: the modern Israelis have no ethnic connection to the Jewish people.

397
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S7: Which of the Bible. And in reality, that's not true.

398
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S7: The Ashkenazi, the Western European Jews who came to Israel

399
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S7: are genetically linked to the Jews who were in the

400
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S7: land already. In fact, that they're not the only Jews.

401
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:26,060
S7: They're the minority in Israel. There are also the Sephardic

402
00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:29,460
S7: Jews and Mizrahi Jews from the Middle East, from the

403
00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:33,500
S7: North Africa region. Uh, they they are genetically linked with

404
00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:36,140
S7: the Ashkenazi Jews, and they can trace their lineage back

405
00:19:36,619 --> 00:19:42,140
S7: to the Bible. Biblical times. So, uh, genetically they're linked. Uh, they've,

406
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:45,100
S7: they've been historically there. They have the, uh, the, the

407
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S7: social background. In fact, when they, uh, celebrate Passover next

408
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:52,180
S7: year in Jerusalem, uh, which has been going on for

409
00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:54,180
S7: thousands of years, they, they were a group who lived

410
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S7: there who were expelled and having this collective memory of theirs,

411
00:19:57,180 --> 00:19:59,859
S7: that that is where we're to be. And next year, perhaps,

412
00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:02,940
S7: Lord willing, that's where we'll be. Uh, so everything connects.

413
00:20:02,940 --> 00:20:07,780
S7: And I think again, it's a rather poorly designed argument, uh, but, uh,

414
00:20:07,780 --> 00:20:10,939
S7: one that's, that's caught, uh, a lot of people's attention

415
00:20:10,940 --> 00:20:12,699
S7: because they don't know so much. In fact, if I

416
00:20:12,740 --> 00:20:14,980
S7: can say something here, if anybody wants to do some

417
00:20:14,980 --> 00:20:17,020
S7: research just for the fun of it, uh, there was

418
00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:19,340
S7: a fellow we had on, on faculty at Moody Bible

419
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S7: Institute named Michael Wexler. W w e c h s

420
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S7: l e r. Absolutely. Brilliant individual. Uh, he put out

421
00:20:26,970 --> 00:20:32,210
S7: a note. In fact, if you Google Wexler. Fabrication of history,

422
00:20:32,210 --> 00:20:35,169
S7: that's all you have to do, Wexler. Fabrication of history.

423
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S7: You'll come across an online interview he did and a

424
00:20:38,330 --> 00:20:41,890
S7: paper he did. And he just demolishes all the arguments

425
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S7: that people are trying to raise against the the Jewish

426
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S7: people and the Jewish connection to the land.

427
00:20:48,090 --> 00:20:50,010
S1: Thank you for that reference, and I hope people will

428
00:20:50,010 --> 00:20:52,730
S1: follow your suggestion on that. Well, let's just talk about

429
00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:54,290
S1: the land a little bit. You do this in who

430
00:20:54,290 --> 00:20:56,530
S1: owns the land when you realize that, first of all,

431
00:20:56,530 --> 00:20:58,409
S1: the deed was given in the book of Genesis, you

432
00:20:58,410 --> 00:21:01,090
S1: read it again in Deuteronomy. That takes us to this

433
00:21:01,090 --> 00:21:07,010
S1: idea of covenants, conditional versus unconditional covenants. A what is

434
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S1: an unconditional covenant and what unconditional covenant, covenant did God

435
00:21:11,890 --> 00:21:13,129
S1: make to the Jewish people?

436
00:21:13,609 --> 00:21:17,210
S7: Well, in terms of the the unconditional covenant, you know,

437
00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:20,210
S7: Genesis 12, God made a covenant, but in Genesis 15,

438
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S7: He ratified it. That's where he signed on the bottom line,

439
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,400
S7: if you will. If it was a conditional covenant, God

440
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,320
S7: would have said, we're cutting these animals apart. And, Abraham,

441
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,639
S7: you'll walk through and I'll walk through and I'll do

442
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,679
S7: my part if you'll do your part. But he didn't

443
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,800
S7: do that. When God made the covenant in Genesis 15,

444
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,240
S7: the animals were cut apart. God and God alone walked

445
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,400
S7: through the the parts of the animal. In essence, God

446
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,200
S7: was saying, I pledge on my life as God that

447
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,720
S7: I will fulfill what I'm promising to you. That's unconditional.

448
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,360
S7: And that's why throughout the rest of the Bible, whenever

449
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,440
S7: you read about that covenant that God made, it's it's

450
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,280
S7: incredible what he said. I love to teach the Old

451
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,000
S7: Testament prophets. That's what I taught for years. And I

452
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,480
S7: get to things like Micah. The book of Micah ends

453
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,840
S7: with with Micah saying, there's a future for Israel. He says,

454
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,840
S7: you'll be compassionate. You'll have you'll tread our sins underfoot.

455
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,159
S7: You'll take care of the problems and the reason why

456
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,920
S7: the last verse, you'll be true to Jacob and show

457
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,760
S7: mercy to Abraham as you pledged on oath to our

458
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,060
S7: fathers in days long ago, Micah said, there's a future

459
00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:22,660
S7: for our people because, God, you made a promise.

460
00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:23,540
S1: Yeah. Amen.

461
00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:27,700
S7: That's that's the ultimate basis for an unconditional covenant. And

462
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:29,980
S7: it's what Israel's future is based on, which I love.

463
00:22:30,020 --> 00:22:32,860
S7: By the way, because what's our hope for heaven? It's

464
00:22:32,859 --> 00:22:35,540
S7: that God made a promise to us. And if God's

465
00:22:35,540 --> 00:22:37,820
S7: in the in the habit of going back on his

466
00:22:37,820 --> 00:22:40,459
S7: covenant with that he made with Israel, then what's to

467
00:22:40,460 --> 00:22:41,979
S7: say he won't do the same for us?

468
00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:44,860
S1: Oh! Amen. Preach it. And that. This is why the

469
00:22:44,859 --> 00:22:47,859
S1: core of this issue. This is a frustrating but fascinating

470
00:22:47,859 --> 00:22:50,580
S1: conversation at the same time. And those are the best

471
00:22:50,580 --> 00:22:53,540
S1: kind from where I'm sitting. So if this is about

472
00:22:53,540 --> 00:22:56,740
S1: the character of God, if you call into account the covenant,

473
00:22:56,780 --> 00:22:59,980
S1: the unconditional covenant that God made with the Jewish people,

474
00:22:59,980 --> 00:23:02,820
S1: you are quite frankly, calling into account the character of

475
00:23:02,820 --> 00:23:06,219
S1: God and an unconditional covenant. If I understand this, Charlie,

476
00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:09,620
S1: is that nothing is predicated on us. It's reflective of

477
00:23:09,619 --> 00:23:11,500
S1: the character of God, am I right?

478
00:23:11,940 --> 00:23:14,340
S7: Oh, absolutely. In fact, I love it. The one place

479
00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:17,650
S7: in the New Testament where where the apostle Paul talks

480
00:23:17,650 --> 00:23:20,570
S7: about the relationship of Israel and the church. Uh, he

481
00:23:20,570 --> 00:23:22,770
S7: comes to the very end and he says, uh, you know,

482
00:23:22,810 --> 00:23:25,090
S7: right now there's, there are problems. There are enemies because

483
00:23:25,090 --> 00:23:27,090
S7: of the gospel. But, but he says, but they're loved

484
00:23:27,090 --> 00:23:29,930
S7: on account of the patriarchs. That's Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,

485
00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:34,090
S7: because God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. And Paul

486
00:23:34,130 --> 00:23:36,650
S7: goes on and he's really talking about the sovereignty of God,

487
00:23:36,650 --> 00:23:39,330
S7: the character of God, and it's the character of God

488
00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:41,890
S7: for the Israel and the promises God made to them.

489
00:23:41,890 --> 00:23:44,290
S7: That's the same character that God makes to us. And

490
00:23:44,290 --> 00:23:46,890
S7: that's where we have to start with the character of God,

491
00:23:46,890 --> 00:23:48,970
S7: which is why I'm a firm believer in the future

492
00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:50,930
S7: for Israel, because God made a promise.

493
00:23:50,970 --> 00:23:53,410
S1: Yes. Oh. Amen. What a place to take a break.

494
00:23:53,410 --> 00:23:54,850
S1: Let me pick it up at that point when we

495
00:23:54,890 --> 00:23:57,409
S1: come back, because again, that's why this is such a

496
00:23:57,410 --> 00:24:00,570
S1: fascinating and important conversation. It isn't what's happening in the

497
00:24:00,570 --> 00:24:04,250
S1: geopolitical realm. It's understanding in the spiritual realm what is

498
00:24:04,250 --> 00:24:06,250
S1: going on. And by the way, in reference to what's

499
00:24:06,250 --> 00:24:09,130
S1: going on in Iran, everything they're doing comes out of

500
00:24:09,170 --> 00:24:11,770
S1: their eschatology. We've said this over and over again, you're

501
00:24:11,770 --> 00:24:13,810
S1: not going to get it on the alphabet soup networks.

502
00:24:14,050 --> 00:24:18,040
S1: Their goal is the entire Islamization of the world that

503
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:23,240
S1: happens there. Their Messiah shows up and their end game begins.

504
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,200
S1: So for them, this is a theological war not done

505
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,760
S1: at a Department of War press conference. You're not going

506
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,920
S1: to hear that. But that's where they're coming from. You

507
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:43,960
S1: need to know that back after this. Going through life

508
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,719
S1: with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper and

509
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,479
S1: the other is essential for each of us on our

510
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,159
S1: walk with Christ. And that's what we do on in

511
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,240
S1: the market. We examine culture, interpret the headlines, and look

512
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,640
S1: at the news from a biblical perspective. When you become

513
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,640
S1: a partial partner, you're directly responsible for putting this program

514
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,080
S1: on the air. Reaching men and women across America with

515
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,080
S1: the practical application of God's Word. Become a partial partner

516
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,960
S1: today by calling eight seven, seven Janet 58 or go

517
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,320
S1: to in the market with Janet Parshall. Let an honor

518
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,640
S1: and a joy to spend time with Doctor Charlie Dyer.

519
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:15,590
S1: He served as provost and dean of education at Moody

520
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:19,429
S1: Bible Institute before he became professor at large of Bible

521
00:25:19,670 --> 00:25:21,990
S1: at Moody, and now currently hosts the land in the

522
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:24,469
S1: book radio program heard on hundreds of stations across the

523
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:27,030
S1: country before it came to Moody. He served for 20

524
00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:31,590
S1: years in multiple different places and at the Dallas Theological Seminary,

525
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:35,590
S1: ultimately serving as the executive VP under Chuck Swindoll. His

526
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:38,350
S1: wonderful writing is something that you and I should be

527
00:25:38,350 --> 00:25:41,470
S1: deeply enmeshed in. One of his more important books, especially

528
00:25:41,470 --> 00:25:43,710
S1: in these latter days, is called Who Owns the Land,

529
00:25:43,869 --> 00:25:46,350
S1: an in-depth look at the truth Behind the Middle East conflict,

530
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:48,350
S1: and it will help you make sense out of the headlines.

531
00:25:48,550 --> 00:25:50,270
S1: But we're going to linger in what the Bible has

532
00:25:50,270 --> 00:25:52,950
S1: to say. So I'm so glad that you talked about

533
00:25:52,990 --> 00:25:56,910
S1: what it is to have, um, an unconditional covenant. So

534
00:25:56,910 --> 00:25:58,869
S1: that raises a couple of issues. Number one, it's why

535
00:25:58,869 --> 00:26:00,989
S1: we should take umbrage when we have people among us

536
00:26:00,990 --> 00:26:02,709
S1: who say that we should disconnect the old from the

537
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:06,310
S1: New Testament. To do that is an abject abandonment of

538
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:09,149
S1: biblical truth, a because Jesus is there from Genesis all

539
00:26:09,150 --> 00:26:11,300
S1: the way through to revelation. So why would you cut

540
00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:14,420
S1: that body of work in half? But number two, and

541
00:26:14,420 --> 00:26:16,260
S1: this is just one of a gazillion reasons why we

542
00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:18,740
S1: shouldn't do this. But number two is you don't understand.

543
00:26:18,740 --> 00:26:22,220
S1: When you see an unconditional covenant, it works its way

544
00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:25,100
S1: through the New Testament as well. If you sever, you

545
00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:27,739
S1: think all covenants are broken, that calls into account, as

546
00:26:27,740 --> 00:26:30,340
S1: you were just saying before the character of God. So

547
00:26:30,380 --> 00:26:32,860
S1: I was thinking, before we start talking about the fact

548
00:26:32,859 --> 00:26:35,740
S1: that people say, well, you know, they're predominantly secular country,

549
00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:38,180
S1: they rejected Jesus. You should just leave him alone. If

550
00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:40,899
S1: you stayed only in the New Testament. And I am

551
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:44,420
S1: fascinated by the books of first and second Chronicles. You

552
00:26:44,420 --> 00:26:47,460
S1: look at the reign of kings awful, bad, terrible, did

553
00:26:47,460 --> 00:26:49,379
S1: awful in the sight of the Lord. Boo! Bad, terrible. Oh,

554
00:26:49,420 --> 00:26:52,580
S1: there's Josiah then. Boo! Bad, terrible. All these kings you.

555
00:26:53,140 --> 00:26:55,460
S1: God could have broken his covenant at any time because

556
00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:57,460
S1: he had people who were passing their own sons through

557
00:26:57,460 --> 00:27:00,980
S1: the fire and he didn't do it. Um, so doesn't

558
00:27:00,980 --> 00:27:03,260
S1: that say something again about the fact that this is

559
00:27:03,260 --> 00:27:05,379
S1: all predicated on the character of God and not on

560
00:27:05,380 --> 00:27:06,899
S1: the behavior of the Jewish people?

561
00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:10,330
S7: Absolutely. In fact, I love it. I just happen to

562
00:27:10,330 --> 00:27:12,410
S7: be doing my devotions in the book of Second Chronicles

563
00:27:12,410 --> 00:27:16,450
S7: right now. Janet. You're right. And I was just going

564
00:27:16,450 --> 00:27:19,649
S7: through those same kings just this morning. Uh, now, what

565
00:27:19,650 --> 00:27:22,090
S7: I would end up saying is, you're exactly right, though.

566
00:27:22,130 --> 00:27:27,090
S7: God's covenant is unconditional. It goes through. Now, any given

567
00:27:27,090 --> 00:27:30,490
S7: generation's ability to participate, to enjoy the benefits of it,

568
00:27:30,490 --> 00:27:33,770
S7: might be conditional on their obedience or disobedience. In fact,

569
00:27:33,770 --> 00:27:37,129
S7: God sent him into captivity in Babylon. But when they turned,

570
00:27:37,170 --> 00:27:40,330
S7: he brought him back because the covenant didn't change. Uh,

571
00:27:40,330 --> 00:27:44,689
S7: just the the individual's likelihood of participating or not changed

572
00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:46,649
S7: based on where they were. Uh, the same thing is

573
00:27:46,650 --> 00:27:50,930
S7: true that covenant is still available now. God talks in Romans, uh,

574
00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:54,369
S7: as he speaks through Paul. Uh, Israel was temporarily broken

575
00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:57,209
S7: off from that access to that place of blessing. Uh,

576
00:27:57,210 --> 00:28:01,930
S7: because of disobedience. But Paul goes quickly goes on and says,

577
00:28:02,170 --> 00:28:04,570
S7: but that's not the end of them because God's gifts

578
00:28:04,570 --> 00:28:07,600
S7: and his calling are irrevocable. And I love it. That's

579
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,679
S7: the one place where he talks about how Israel relates

580
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,240
S7: to the church, and he doesn't say, oh yeah, we

581
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,520
S7: replaced Israel. He says, no, no, God's covenant is still there.

582
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,480
S7: It's it's not been broken at all. And they're going

583
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:19,800
S7: to have a future. And that's what he goes on

584
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,800
S7: to describe. And he bases it on the character of God.

585
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,199
S7: And that's where we need to start. As you said, uh,

586
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,960
S7: it's not what we feel. It's not what we think.

587
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,119
S7: It's not what, uh, we might want. It's what God says.

588
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,119
S1: Absolutely. And like you said, Charlie, if he's going to

589
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,200
S1: break his promise there, then he can break his promise anywhere.

590
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,560
S1: And that puts us in a wretched state as fallen humans.

591
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,360
S1: It seems to me it does.

592
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,400
S7: Well, actually, that's what the Muslims would say is that, uh, that,

593
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,400
S7: you know, God broke his promise with Israel because they

594
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,520
S7: didn't obey. And then now he broke his promise with

595
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,920
S7: the church because we didn't accept Muhammad as the prophet. So, uh, they,

596
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,080
S7: they hold to an ultimate replacement theology. And if we

597
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,000
S7: want to be consistent in holding to a replacement theology, then, uh,

598
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,360
S7: you know, have, have we been replaced? And of course,

599
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,760
S7: the answer is no, and neither has Israel.

600
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,030
S1: Oh, I love the words you're bringing up because there's

601
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:07,630
S1: a deep dive in every single one of those. Let

602
00:29:07,630 --> 00:29:10,910
S1: me bring up two bad, terrible D words. One is

603
00:29:10,910 --> 00:29:14,709
S1: dispensationalism and the other is Darby. If you spend more

604
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:17,750
S1: than five seconds on social media, this stuff comes up

605
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:20,830
S1: all the time. My first week in my New Testament

606
00:29:20,830 --> 00:29:24,430
S1: survey class, we talked about dispensationalism and it you know,

607
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:27,230
S1: it's systematic theology. It's just a study, isn't it? It's

608
00:29:27,230 --> 00:29:31,830
S1: not like this transcendent, ethereal ecosystem theologically that you have

609
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:34,110
S1: to subscribe to. It's laying out a timeline. So talk

610
00:29:34,110 --> 00:29:34,990
S1: to me about that.

611
00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:38,390
S7: Yeah, and it's interesting. I went to Dallas Seminary as

612
00:29:38,390 --> 00:29:40,950
S7: a student, and of course, I had heard, well, you know,

613
00:29:41,270 --> 00:29:45,390
S7: that's the bastion of dispensationalism. And I thought, you know,

614
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:47,550
S7: I'm going to be kind of programmed as a robot.

615
00:29:47,550 --> 00:29:49,390
S7: And then I found out that I had John Walvoord

616
00:29:49,390 --> 00:29:52,070
S7: and I had Charles Ryrie, and I had J. Dwight Pentecost,

617
00:29:52,350 --> 00:29:55,070
S7: and they all had different opinions on passages in the Bible.

618
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:59,950
S7: They didn't hold to a single unified uniform, uh, you know,

619
00:29:59,990 --> 00:30:02,750
S7: lock step view. What they did was said, but you

620
00:30:02,750 --> 00:30:04,660
S7: take the Bible, you take it at face value. You

621
00:30:04,660 --> 00:30:07,620
S7: take it literally intended to be read. And when you do,

622
00:30:07,660 --> 00:30:09,860
S7: you end up with the distinction between Israel and the

623
00:30:09,860 --> 00:30:13,780
S7: church and a future for the nation of Israel. And ultimately,

624
00:30:13,780 --> 00:30:19,860
S7: dispensationalism was taking the Bible at its literal, normal, historical way, uh,

625
00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:23,140
S7: and seeing that distinction. And in fact, I don't take

626
00:30:23,140 --> 00:30:25,820
S7: a sacrifice to, uh, to a temple to worship. Now

627
00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:28,020
S7: Christ did a sacrifice. There is a change in what

628
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:32,020
S7: God's program was. Uh, it's recognizing those changes and, and

629
00:30:32,020 --> 00:30:36,140
S7: putting the Bible together in a literal fashion. So, uh, yeah,

630
00:30:36,140 --> 00:30:38,020
S7: I don't, I don't get embarrassed. I love that they

631
00:30:38,020 --> 00:30:40,260
S7: try and blame it all on Derby as if 1800

632
00:30:40,580 --> 00:30:44,060
S7: suddenly something was invented. Exactly. They can actually trace back

633
00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:46,180
S7: the understanding and the future for Israel. Back to the

634
00:30:46,180 --> 00:30:49,219
S7: Apostle Paul in the New Testament. Uh, that's what he's

635
00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:52,220
S7: saying in Romans chapter 11. Uh, and they found early

636
00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:54,540
S7: church history. The difference is in church history, there were

637
00:30:54,540 --> 00:30:57,020
S7: different aspects. The first 300 years they were trying to

638
00:30:57,020 --> 00:31:00,060
S7: decide who Jesus was. And is he God? Is he man?

639
00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:02,650
S7: How does that work out? Uh, by the time of

640
00:31:02,690 --> 00:31:04,890
S7: Martin Luther, they were trying to figure out what is salvation?

641
00:31:04,890 --> 00:31:07,610
S7: What is the nature of salvation? Well, it's not that

642
00:31:07,610 --> 00:31:12,170
S7: Luther invented salvation by grace through faith. Mhm. It's that it's, uh,

643
00:31:12,170 --> 00:31:14,810
S7: that was the problem that was being issued and wrestled with.

644
00:31:14,850 --> 00:31:19,210
S7: And in the late 1800s, 1700s, they were finally starting

645
00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:22,370
S7: to wrestle with the issue of the church in Israel

646
00:31:22,370 --> 00:31:25,530
S7: and the future for Israel. And, uh, Darby did a

647
00:31:25,530 --> 00:31:28,130
S7: wonderful job of trying to take the Bible and take

648
00:31:28,130 --> 00:31:30,610
S7: it at face value. People have built on his shoulders

649
00:31:30,610 --> 00:31:34,050
S7: and have done an even better job of, of explaining it.

650
00:31:34,050 --> 00:31:37,290
S7: And we're still doing that because ultimately we're finite people

651
00:31:37,290 --> 00:31:40,290
S7: trying to put together an infinite book. But when we

652
00:31:40,290 --> 00:31:42,730
S7: take it at face value and admit I might not

653
00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:45,330
S7: understand it, the problem isn't God and it's not his word.

654
00:31:45,330 --> 00:31:47,010
S7: It's me. I just don't know enough yet.

655
00:31:47,450 --> 00:31:51,130
S1: That's exactly right. All right, so again, people spend about

656
00:31:51,130 --> 00:31:53,810
S1: 15 seconds on their social media platform. But if they

657
00:31:53,810 --> 00:31:56,770
S1: see things often enough, they think it's true. So why

658
00:31:56,770 --> 00:31:59,990
S1: has the Scofield Bible become a flashpoint in this conversation

659
00:31:59,990 --> 00:32:00,510
S1: as well.

660
00:32:01,150 --> 00:32:04,070
S7: You know, I can't get that one, Janet. I've got

661
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:07,350
S7: my Scofield up here. It's, uh, you know, it's based

662
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:10,190
S7: on the King James Bible, and I probably don't use

663
00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:12,670
S7: that normally, but it's not a bad translation. Uh, there

664
00:32:12,670 --> 00:32:17,310
S7: are other, uh, study Bibles out, and they are, uh, again, C.I. Scofield. I,

665
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:20,110
S7: by the way, I was, uh, ordained at Scofield Memorial

666
00:32:20,110 --> 00:32:22,550
S7: Church in Dallas, Texas. So, uh, I know a little

667
00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:25,030
S7: bit about Scofield just from going to that church. Uh,

668
00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:27,630
S7: he was a man who, uh, had a checkered past.

669
00:32:27,670 --> 00:32:30,590
S7: He was a drunkard who had a dramatic call to

670
00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:33,030
S7: faith and then began throwing himself into the study of

671
00:32:33,030 --> 00:32:35,990
S7: God's word and just took the Bible at what it said,

672
00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:38,670
S7: and I think did a masterful job. I would that

673
00:32:38,670 --> 00:32:41,229
S7: the average person today knew as much about the Bible

674
00:32:41,230 --> 00:32:43,390
S7: as he did, and spent as much time studying it

675
00:32:43,390 --> 00:32:46,150
S7: as he did. Uh, did he get everything right? No,

676
00:32:46,150 --> 00:32:48,030
S7: not not for sure. Did he say some things that

677
00:32:48,030 --> 00:32:51,550
S7: we'd probably say differently? Yeah. Uh, but by and large,

678
00:32:51,870 --> 00:32:54,230
S7: he did a good job of trying to, to, uh,

679
00:32:54,390 --> 00:32:57,270
S7: explain what the Bible said for an audience and providing

680
00:32:57,270 --> 00:33:01,100
S7: cross reference notes that could help people. And, uh, rather

681
00:33:01,100 --> 00:33:02,860
S7: than complaining about him, I think we ought to try

682
00:33:02,860 --> 00:33:04,540
S7: and emulate that in our own lives.

683
00:33:04,580 --> 00:33:07,140
S1: Mhm. So. Well said. You used a phrase. I'd love

684
00:33:07,140 --> 00:33:08,660
S1: for you to break it down. What do you mean

685
00:33:08,660 --> 00:33:11,460
S1: when you talk about replacement theology? Another couple of words

686
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:13,180
S1: that float up through this conversation.

687
00:33:13,620 --> 00:33:16,660
S7: Yeah, that that is the simplest form is that the

688
00:33:16,660 --> 00:33:19,300
S7: church replaced Israel. That is, God made a promise to

689
00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:23,459
S7: Israel and, uh, Israel violated it. They they rejected the

690
00:33:23,460 --> 00:33:26,740
S7: Messiah and the promises that God gave to Israel. He's

691
00:33:26,740 --> 00:33:30,500
S7: now changed. They're not literally to be understood. We're not

692
00:33:30,540 --> 00:33:33,940
S7: inheritors of the land, but we're inheritors of heaven. And

693
00:33:33,940 --> 00:33:37,100
S7: so the promises have been spiritualized and applied to the church.

694
00:33:37,660 --> 00:33:39,900
S7: The problem with that is that if you take what

695
00:33:39,940 --> 00:33:43,700
S7: God promised at face value, uh, they're not applied to us.

696
00:33:43,740 --> 00:33:46,340
S7: I mean, I don't have a place in, uh, neither

697
00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:49,260
S7: in the physical land of Israel nor, uh, in a

698
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:52,940
S7: spiritual way. Uh, there's so many places where they've taken

699
00:33:52,940 --> 00:33:57,010
S7: away what God said and tried to spiritualize it. and

700
00:33:57,490 --> 00:33:59,690
S7: you get into real problems in the book of Ezekiel,

701
00:33:59,690 --> 00:34:01,410
S7: when you try and come up with what the the

702
00:34:01,410 --> 00:34:05,410
S7: new temple that's going to be built is. Uh, and, uh,

703
00:34:05,530 --> 00:34:08,130
S7: I had to write the commentary for that, for the

704
00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:11,450
S7: Bible knowledge commentary and, and, uh, trust me, if you

705
00:34:11,450 --> 00:34:13,569
S7: don't take that at face value, you have no clue

706
00:34:13,610 --> 00:34:15,170
S7: what you're, what you're looking at there.

707
00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:19,290
S1: That's so true. So well said. Wow. Well, and again,

708
00:34:19,330 --> 00:34:21,529
S1: if we're throwing names around who came up with this

709
00:34:21,530 --> 00:34:25,529
S1: idea of replacement theology, it's a, it's it's a thought system.

710
00:34:25,530 --> 00:34:27,489
S1: So who are the key players in this idea that

711
00:34:27,489 --> 00:34:30,130
S1: somewhere between Malachi and Matthew, God changes his mind?

712
00:34:30,730 --> 00:34:32,810
S7: Well, I think it goes all the way back to, uh,

713
00:34:33,090 --> 00:34:36,569
S7: about the third century, uh, origin and, and some others

714
00:34:36,570 --> 00:34:39,730
S7: when they finally went away from taking the Bible literally

715
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:43,489
S7: and started looking for a spiritual, deeper, hidden meaning. Well,

716
00:34:43,489 --> 00:34:46,569
S7: at that point, the, uh, the person who determines what

717
00:34:46,570 --> 00:34:50,569
S7: it's saying is, you know, not, not God's word. And, uh, the, uh,

718
00:34:50,890 --> 00:34:56,720
S7: that spiritualized interpretation is ultimately what was behind, uh, spiritualizing

719
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,200
S7: Israel and making it the church.

720
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,920
S1: MM. So again, those are all those are flash points.

721
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,799
S1: Those are words that people hear all the time that

722
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,640
S1: come up when we come back. And again, I love

723
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,680
S1: the way that you just and you flew over this,

724
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,480
S1: this was a crash course. So you'll get more if

725
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,360
S1: you read Who Owns the Land. By the way, a

726
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,200
S1: lot of other books that Doctor Dyer has written on

727
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,160
S1: this topic as well. But you're there spending 15 seconds

728
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,680
S1: on a social media platform, and you've got a three

729
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,520
S1: minute soundbite on TikTok. And that's not how you learn

730
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,960
S1: your theology, okay? Don't let the world teach you theology.

731
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,759
S1: You get grounded in the word and find out the

732
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,120
S1: characteristics of God, the promises that he's made, the covenants

733
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,520
S1: that he's made and the nature of God. And then

734
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,280
S1: understand also that the stuff that's on the headlines today,

735
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,839
S1: the root of all of this is an ancient, ancient warfare.

736
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,879
S1: I you can't see it with your eyes, but I'm

737
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,480
S1: here to tell you it is fierce and it is intense.

738
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,320
S1: And it's the enemy hating the fact that a Jewish

739
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,319
S1: Messiah became the unblemished Lamb of God that took away

740
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,669
S1: the sins of the world, and he's been hopping mad

741
00:35:54,670 --> 00:35:57,750
S1: ever since. Note to file his days are numbered. Read

742
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:59,669
S1: the book doesn't turn out so well for him. More

743
00:35:59,670 --> 00:36:12,910
S1: with Doctor Di right after this. Who owns the land?

744
00:36:12,910 --> 00:36:14,910
S1: It's one of the many books that Doctor Charles Dyer

745
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:17,390
S1: has authored. It is an in-depth look at the truth

746
00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:19,790
S1: behind the Middle East conflict. Wrote it a few years ago.

747
00:36:19,790 --> 00:36:22,029
S1: It has now been updated and revised because guess what?

748
00:36:22,070 --> 00:36:24,550
S1: Israel is in the news all the time. Which takes

749
00:36:24,550 --> 00:36:27,430
S1: me in a conversation that's gone far too fast, Charlie.

750
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:29,270
S1: And they do every time you and I get together.

751
00:36:29,710 --> 00:36:32,350
S1: How do we as followers of Christ, how do we

752
00:36:32,350 --> 00:36:35,310
S1: in the marketplace of ideas, engage on this particular topic?

753
00:36:35,350 --> 00:36:38,430
S1: The problem that I'm hearing, and it bothers me so much,

754
00:36:38,430 --> 00:36:40,430
S1: and I say this over and over again because I

755
00:36:40,469 --> 00:36:42,950
S1: happen to believe it's true. The world is right on schedule.

756
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:45,710
S1: The world is doing exactly what the world does without Jesus.

757
00:36:45,710 --> 00:36:48,670
S1: So it's not the world's response that bothers me. It's

758
00:36:48,670 --> 00:36:52,580
S1: people who call themselves, quote, Christian, who are now coming

759
00:36:52,580 --> 00:36:59,140
S1: up with these horrific anti-Semitic statements, actions, beliefs, participating in

760
00:36:59,340 --> 00:37:03,300
S1: awful protests that are just blind leading the blind. That

761
00:37:03,300 --> 00:37:06,180
S1: bothers me. People who should know better because they'd have

762
00:37:06,180 --> 00:37:08,540
S1: one word plant, one foot planted in the word and

763
00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:11,339
S1: the other they're walking through the world. But that's the

764
00:37:11,340 --> 00:37:13,580
S1: chaos that bothers me. I don't know what that's predicated on.

765
00:37:13,580 --> 00:37:16,819
S1: Is it just bad Bible, bad teaching, bad information from

766
00:37:16,820 --> 00:37:20,380
S1: the pulpit? Is it give me something that tickles my ears.

767
00:37:20,660 --> 00:37:23,379
S1: Your thoughts on that? Where's the genesis on the in

768
00:37:23,420 --> 00:37:25,180
S1: the church on this bad teaching?

769
00:37:25,580 --> 00:37:27,380
S7: Well, you know, you said they have one foot planted

770
00:37:27,380 --> 00:37:29,060
S7: in the word. I think they actually have one small

771
00:37:29,060 --> 00:37:33,180
S7: toe planted in the word, sadly. Uh, the I had

772
00:37:33,180 --> 00:37:34,460
S7: a friend who said, if you want to know the

773
00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:36,460
S7: Word of God, the best way to know it is

774
00:37:36,460 --> 00:37:39,380
S7: to read it. But the average person is not reading

775
00:37:39,380 --> 00:37:41,180
S7: the Word of God. They don't know what it says,

776
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:46,180
S7: and as a result, they, they succumb to, to slick arguments, to, uh,

777
00:37:46,739 --> 00:37:49,450
S7: anything that's presented in a, in a fancy way. Sounds

778
00:37:49,450 --> 00:37:51,530
S7: good to them, but they don't have the ability to

779
00:37:51,570 --> 00:37:56,129
S7: evaluate it. Uh. Now, lest we get down on our

780
00:37:56,130 --> 00:37:59,649
S7: generation today, I love it. In second Thessalonians, Paul wrote

781
00:37:59,650 --> 00:38:02,130
S7: to the church there, and he and evidently they had

782
00:38:02,130 --> 00:38:04,370
S7: gotten a letter or a prophecy or something from that.

783
00:38:04,370 --> 00:38:06,330
S7: They said, this must be from Paul. We're in the

784
00:38:06,330 --> 00:38:09,730
S7: day of the Lord. And Paul writes and says to them,

785
00:38:09,770 --> 00:38:12,370
S7: you know, you might have gotten that. Don't let anyone

786
00:38:12,370 --> 00:38:13,969
S7: deceive you in any way. And then he goes through

787
00:38:13,969 --> 00:38:15,290
S7: and he says, here's what I taught you when I

788
00:38:15,290 --> 00:38:20,489
S7: was there. The best solution to being driven, tossed and

789
00:38:20,530 --> 00:38:23,370
S7: turned in any direction is to know the Word of God.

790
00:38:23,570 --> 00:38:25,169
S7: And the way to do that is to read. My

791
00:38:25,170 --> 00:38:27,370
S7: recommendation to people is if if you have a Bible,

792
00:38:27,370 --> 00:38:30,210
S7: you're not. It's an older translation, get a newer translation.

793
00:38:30,210 --> 00:38:32,450
S7: But read the Word of God. And don't just stick

794
00:38:32,450 --> 00:38:34,450
S7: in a few areas and look for your favorite verse.

795
00:38:34,730 --> 00:38:36,330
S7: Go through it. The more you know the Word of God,

796
00:38:36,330 --> 00:38:38,210
S7: the more you're going to be able to evaluate what's

797
00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:41,890
S7: what's going on. I have an illustration. When I was

798
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:44,529
S7: a seminary student, I worked part time at a bank

799
00:38:44,570 --> 00:38:48,440
S7: as a teller. I gave away about $1,000 in two years. They.

800
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,320
S7: The customers loved me. Not one ever came back to

801
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,799
S7: tell me I gave them too much, but they had

802
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,080
S7: somebody come from the government to explain how to use

803
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,560
S7: how to spot counterfeit money, and I thought this was

804
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,160
S7: going to be great. I'll get to see all these counterfeits.

805
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,040
S7: They didn't show us a single counterfeit. They spent all

806
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,640
S7: their time showing what the real thing looks like. And

807
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,359
S7: they said, if you follow this, this is the thing

808
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,080
S7: that the no matter what counterfeit it happens to be,

809
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,120
S7: they have trouble getting this right. And the reality is

810
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,759
S7: there's all sorts of false ideas going around and they're

811
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,680
S7: always going to be new ones. But to the extent

812
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,239
S7: that you know the Word of God, you'll just say,

813
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,040
S7: that doesn't sound right. You may not remember the exact verse,

814
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,960
S7: but it'll take you back to the Word of God,

815
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,320
S7: and that'll keep you from going off any, any way,

816
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,600
S7: any matter of a number of different wrong directions.

817
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,120
S1: Preach it. I couldn't agree with you more. Okay, so

818
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,640
S1: that takes us to so get in the word. That's

819
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,080
S1: point number one. If you don't, you're, you're just lost.

820
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,720
S1: You need that plumb line we talked about before. Otherwise

821
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,870
S1: nothing in the world, particularly this issue. But nothing in

822
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:48,469
S1: the world will make sense if you don't look at

823
00:39:48,469 --> 00:39:50,910
S1: the world through the lens of Scripture. Here's the second thing.

824
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:54,150
S1: And to me, it's infuriating because it's insinuating that Christians

825
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:56,549
S1: cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. So we,

826
00:39:56,590 --> 00:39:59,030
S1: we try to play this game of how many angels

827
00:39:59,030 --> 00:40:01,069
S1: dance on the head of a pin by saying, oh,

828
00:40:01,230 --> 00:40:03,350
S1: I don't have anything against the Jewish people. I just

829
00:40:03,350 --> 00:40:07,230
S1: have hatred toward the state of Israel. Um, okay, explain

830
00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:07,790
S1: that to me.

831
00:40:08,469 --> 00:40:13,150
S7: Yeah, that's, uh, you can't do one without the other. Exactly.

832
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:17,509
S7: Because the Jewish it's a Jewish state. And, uh, those

833
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:20,149
S7: who are doing that are trying to use semantics to

834
00:40:20,190 --> 00:40:24,350
S7: justify their antisemitism, but in reality, at the bottom line,

835
00:40:24,350 --> 00:40:28,710
S7: they don't they don't like the Jewish people. And, uh, if, uh,

836
00:40:28,750 --> 00:40:30,589
S7: if they called the state something else, that if we're

837
00:40:30,590 --> 00:40:34,989
S7: Jewish people, they wouldn't like it. So, um, God is

838
00:40:34,989 --> 00:40:36,750
S7: the one who gave them that land. In fact, the

839
00:40:36,750 --> 00:40:39,430
S7: the title deed to the land is found in, uh,

840
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:42,870
S7: book of numbers and the book of Ezekiel, numbers 34

841
00:40:42,910 --> 00:40:46,129
S7: and Ezekiel 47. And God said, this is the land

842
00:40:46,130 --> 00:40:49,170
S7: I'm giving you. I gave the borders for it. Uh,

843
00:40:49,290 --> 00:40:51,489
S7: we might not like that, but take it up with God.

844
00:40:51,489 --> 00:40:54,410
S7: It's not it's not Israel's fault. It's God's. And again,

845
00:40:54,450 --> 00:40:56,730
S7: we're back to the character of God. He made the promise.

846
00:40:57,130 --> 00:40:59,089
S1: Well, one of the things I love and I love

847
00:40:59,090 --> 00:41:00,529
S1: the entire book, but one of the things I love

848
00:41:00,530 --> 00:41:02,690
S1: about who owns the land is that you give us

849
00:41:02,690 --> 00:41:04,850
S1: lots of maps so that we can do information. And

850
00:41:04,850 --> 00:41:06,810
S1: one of the maps I love goes back to the

851
00:41:06,810 --> 00:41:08,969
S1: Balfour Declaration. And when you think about the deed to

852
00:41:09,010 --> 00:41:11,610
S1: the land, if you read it, whether it's in Genesis

853
00:41:11,610 --> 00:41:14,850
S1: or numbers or wherever you're reading it, God gave the

854
00:41:14,969 --> 00:41:17,890
S1: the Jewish people a boatload more land than when they're

855
00:41:17,890 --> 00:41:20,890
S1: sitting on today. From my vantage point, they've been very gracious.

856
00:41:20,930 --> 00:41:23,490
S1: Sometimes it was taken from them, sometimes they ceded it.

857
00:41:23,489 --> 00:41:26,609
S1: But the bottom line is this little state about the

858
00:41:26,610 --> 00:41:29,810
S1: size of new Jersey, sitting around all these giants around them.

859
00:41:30,250 --> 00:41:33,410
S1: The deed takes the land much farther than the boundaries

860
00:41:33,410 --> 00:41:34,930
S1: we see in current Israel, does it not?

861
00:41:35,489 --> 00:41:39,209
S7: Oh, absolutely. And someday Israel will possess all of that land,

862
00:41:39,210 --> 00:41:41,680
S7: because that's part of God's promise. But you're right. In

863
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,759
S7: the interim. They're living on less than the land than

864
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,400
S7: what God promised them. Also, and I pointed out in

865
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,160
S7: the book, you know, we think of all the other

866
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,880
S7: Arab countries, most of the Arab countries we know today

867
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,680
S7: are modern inventions. There wasn't a country of Jordan or

868
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,080
S7: a country of Syria. They were invented by the European

869
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,799
S7: powers as well. So the only one that truly can say, well,

870
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,279
S7: I can point to my promise in the Word of

871
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,040
S7: God is Israel. Uh, and, uh, and yet, uh, nobody

872
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,400
S7: doubts that Syria shouldn't be around or, uh, Jordan shouldn't

873
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,120
S7: be around, or Saudi Arabia shouldn't be around. Uh, but

874
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,520
S7: they were. There's a reason there was a straight lines

875
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,799
S7: on a map. It's because that's how the British and

876
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:19,840
S7: the French drew them.

877
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,880
S1: That's exactly right. So not only that, but then when

878
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,839
S1: you look at the archaeological substantiation, I'm fascinated by archaeology.

879
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,840
S1: And when you see over and over again the Jewish

880
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,560
S1: presence in the Jewish state that goes back thousands, 3000

881
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,439
S1: plus years. It's pretty hard to argue that they were

882
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,989
S1: occupiers when you've got this trail of evidence that they

883
00:42:39,989 --> 00:42:40,830
S1: were there before?

884
00:42:41,390 --> 00:42:44,190
S7: Yeah, they were there before the Muslim conquest in in

885
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:47,589
S7: the six, seven hundreds. Uh, so it goes back one

886
00:42:47,590 --> 00:42:51,350
S7: of the greatest archaeological areas today is the original city

887
00:42:51,350 --> 00:42:55,830
S7: of David. Uh, that I just, I just am amazed

888
00:42:55,830 --> 00:42:57,350
S7: every time I'm there, there's something new that they found,

889
00:42:57,350 --> 00:43:00,710
S7: including this pilgrim roadway 2000 years ago, where the Jews

890
00:43:00,710 --> 00:43:03,669
S7: walked on it on the street. Uh, uh, they have

891
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:05,790
S7: the evidence to show that they were there, that this

892
00:43:05,790 --> 00:43:08,350
S7: was there, right? That this is the place they lived,

893
00:43:08,590 --> 00:43:10,710
S7: and yet the world refuses to believe it.

894
00:43:10,750 --> 00:43:14,509
S1: Yeah. And so if the clarion cry post the Holocaust

895
00:43:14,510 --> 00:43:16,950
S1: is never again, this goes back to the question I

896
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:20,070
S1: wanted to ask earlier, which is, as followers of Christ Jesus,

897
00:43:20,070 --> 00:43:21,710
S1: going through life with the Bible in one hand and

898
00:43:21,710 --> 00:43:24,390
S1: the newspaper in the other, how do we respond when

899
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:27,150
S1: we hear these cries of anti-Semitism, when people are making

900
00:43:27,150 --> 00:43:30,669
S1: these really untenable statements that I don't have anything against

901
00:43:30,670 --> 00:43:32,430
S1: the Jewish people, I just don't believe in the Jewish

902
00:43:32,430 --> 00:43:35,150
S1: state or Israel is the occupier, or they've committed genocide.

903
00:43:35,150 --> 00:43:36,790
S1: The list goes on and on and on. How do

904
00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:37,509
S1: we respond?

905
00:43:38,140 --> 00:43:40,259
S7: I think we have to respond by saying, what does

906
00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:42,580
S7: God say? Thus saith the Lord. And go back to

907
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:44,580
S7: what God's Word has to offer and then say, and

908
00:43:44,580 --> 00:43:46,979
S7: I'm standing with that, which means I'm standing with the

909
00:43:46,980 --> 00:43:49,260
S7: the nation of Israel, with the Jewish people right now.

910
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:52,660
S1: Yeah. And let the chips fall where they may. Right. Yeah. Wow.

911
00:43:53,020 --> 00:43:54,819
S1: Let me get people to get to your book again.

912
00:43:54,820 --> 00:43:56,819
S1: It's called Who Owns the Land. I've got it right

913
00:43:56,820 --> 00:43:58,540
S1: there on my website. Just go to In the market

914
00:43:58,540 --> 00:44:01,779
S1: with Janet Parshall under the summation of the two hours

915
00:44:01,780 --> 00:44:03,540
S1: we do every day, there's a red box. It says

916
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:06,420
S1: program details and audio. Click that on. It'll take you

917
00:44:06,420 --> 00:44:09,660
S1: over the information page. There's a wonderful picture of Doctor Dyer,

918
00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:13,020
S1: a longer bio, um, a link to his book, Who

919
00:44:13,020 --> 00:44:15,419
S1: Owns the land, so you can click on through and

920
00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:18,780
S1: read it because it really is so helpful in breaking

921
00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:21,460
S1: down the history so that you understand the false claims

922
00:44:21,460 --> 00:44:23,660
S1: that are being made, claims, by the way, that are

923
00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:27,820
S1: rooted in anti-Semitism, not in historical objective truth. And it'll

924
00:44:27,820 --> 00:44:30,740
S1: help you better contend for the faith. Thank you, Doctor Dyer.

925
00:44:30,780 --> 00:44:33,779
S1: Always fabulous conversations and thank you, friends. We'll see you

926
00:44:33,780 --> 00:44:35,980
S1: next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.