1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 S1: Hi friends. Thanks so much for downloading this podcast, and 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,000 S1: I hope truly that you will hear something that will encourage, edify, equip, 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,360 S1: and enlighten you to get out there and influence and 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,040 S1: occupy until he comes. And on that note, may I 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,080 S1: take just a few moments here to describe this month's 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,920 S1: truth tool? It's by pastor Jack Hibbs. He's written the 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,040 S1: book called Called to Take a Bold Stand. I absolutely 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,520 S1: love this book because it reminds us that in Christ 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: all things pass away. All things become new, that we 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,240 S1: are standing for his truth, that we have a new nature. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 S1: Because of him, we should be living boldly. But far 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: too often we retreat out of fear from cultural blowback. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 S1: So I want to encourage all of us to just 14 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,800 S1: stand up for Christ, to be unashamed of who we 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,120 S1: are in him, and to go into a culture that's 16 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,600 S1: telling us in no uncertain terms. They're lost and they're hurting. 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,760 S1: So if you'd like a copy of Pastor Hibbs new 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: book called Call to Take a Bold Stand, just give 19 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: a gift of any amount by calling eight, seven, seven. 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 S1: Janet 58. We are listener supported radio, and this is 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: my way of saying thank you. So that number again 22 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,279 S1: is 877 Janet 58. Or you can go online in 23 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,080 S1: the market with Janet dot o r g. Go to 24 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,200 S1: the bottom of the page. There's the cover of Pastor 25 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,680 S1: Jack's book. Click it on, give a gift and you'll 26 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,199 S1: be good to go. And we'll send you a copy 27 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,040 S1: as a way of saying thank you. Don't forget, you 28 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,560 S1: can also become a partial partner. Those are people who 29 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,200 S1: give every single month at a level of their own choosing. 30 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,200 S1: My way of saying thank you to the partial partners 31 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,759 S1: is to make sure you get a copy of each 32 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,600 S1: month's truth tool, and you get our weekly newsletter, which 33 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,279 S1: includes some of my writing and an audio piece only 34 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,760 S1: for my partial partners. So whether it's a one time 35 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,600 S1: gift or you want to be an ongoing giver and 36 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,880 S1: become a partial partner, that's your call. But I want 37 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,080 S1: to thank you in advance. Eight seven, seven Janet 58. 38 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,320 S1: Or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Now 39 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:46,280 S1: please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. 40 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,360 S1: Thanks so much for choosing to spend the next hour 41 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,520 S1: with us. Today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines 42 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,640 S1: are not open. But thanks so much for being with 43 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,320 S1: us and enjoy the broadcast. 44 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,320 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 45 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,800 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 46 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,040 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 47 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,680 S5: Extremely rare safety move by MH 17 years. 48 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,760 S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 49 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,560 S1: Hi friends. Welcome to in the market with Janet partial. Okay. 50 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,760 S1: If you listen to this program with any regularity, we 51 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,600 S1: are not shy when it comes to tackling tough topics. Why? 52 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:37,359 S1: Because we believe the gospel changes everything. Everything and everyone. 53 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,040 S1: So mom and dad, because I love you and care 54 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,600 S1: for you. This is an adult conversation. We're going to 55 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,120 S1: talk about some important stuff. We're going to talk about 56 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,359 S1: a pandemic in the church. And no, it didn't come 57 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,160 S1: from a laboratory in Wuhan. It comes from the human heart. 58 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,600 S1: But it's a problem that needs to be addressed. And 59 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,200 S1: the way in which we take care of this sin 60 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,400 S1: sick problem is not with the vaccine, but with the 61 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,160 S1: disinfectant of sun. S o n l I g h 62 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,320 S1: t sunlight. And that's what we're going to talk about. Lust, pornography, 63 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,600 S1: but particularly women. Yeah. Whoa. I know, hit the brakes. 64 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,120 S1: You thought it was just a man's problem, right? Listen, 65 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,800 S1: there's temptation. I you know, very rarely I think temptation 66 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,840 S1: stops and goes wrong. Gender. No, absolutely. This has everything 67 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,040 S1: to do with the condition of the human heart. But 68 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,520 S1: God didn't leave us in our mess and our distress. 69 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,400 S1: He sent out an SOS instead. And that's exactly what 70 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,200 S1: we're going to talk about today. How God rescues those 71 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,640 S1: who struggle in this area. I gotta tell you, I'm 72 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,320 S1: about to talk to a very brave woman, because now 73 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,800 S1: the whole world knows that this was her struggle. And 74 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,080 S1: she doesn't care that the whole world knows her struggle. 75 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,520 S1: She does so because she knows exactly what the scripture says. 76 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,119 S1: She was given his comfort and in turn, she's turned 77 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,000 S1: around and comforting, comforting those who struggle in the same area. 78 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,330 S1: Jessica Harris is a writer and an international speaker who 79 00:03:54,370 --> 00:03:58,770 S1: talks openly and honestly about pornography addiction among Christian women 80 00:03:58,770 --> 00:04:02,370 S1: in order to facilitate healing. There's the answer to the question. 81 00:04:02,650 --> 00:04:05,170 S1: She is recognized as a leading voice on the topic 82 00:04:05,170 --> 00:04:08,850 S1: of female porn years, porn use and addiction in the church, 83 00:04:09,050 --> 00:04:12,050 S1: and she's been featured on Nightline 700 club. Focus on 84 00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:14,690 S1: the family and crew. She joins us today as the 85 00:04:14,690 --> 00:04:16,849 S1: author of the book quenched. And for the record, little 86 00:04:16,850 --> 00:04:19,530 S1: anecdote from my vantage point, this book has been sitting 87 00:04:19,529 --> 00:04:21,610 S1: on my desk for months. I could not wait for 88 00:04:21,610 --> 00:04:24,250 S1: the gate to be lifted, and we could finally talk 89 00:04:24,250 --> 00:04:27,810 S1: to Jessica about this subject, because it's not being discussed. 90 00:04:27,810 --> 00:04:30,409 S1: And yet, there are women now who sit in shame 91 00:04:30,410 --> 00:04:33,570 S1: and in silence, thinking that they are beyond the pale 92 00:04:33,570 --> 00:04:36,010 S1: of cavalry, which of course, they are not. And that 93 00:04:36,010 --> 00:04:39,050 S1: goes to the subtitle of Jessica's book, Discovering God's Abundant 94 00:04:39,050 --> 00:04:43,290 S1: Grace for women Struggling with Pornography and Sexual Shame. I 95 00:04:43,290 --> 00:04:45,490 S1: will open the phone lines later for questions, but right now, 96 00:04:45,490 --> 00:04:47,250 S1: I want you to get into the heart of Jessica's 97 00:04:47,250 --> 00:04:49,570 S1: story and Mom and Dad again understand why I said 98 00:04:49,570 --> 00:04:52,010 S1: this is a conversation for grown ups, so maybe not 99 00:04:52,010 --> 00:04:53,529 S1: a good hour for the little ones. You might want 100 00:04:53,529 --> 00:04:56,330 S1: to podcast this and listen at your convenience. Jessica. The 101 00:04:56,330 --> 00:04:58,690 S1: warmest of welcomes. First, an abundance of thanks. You give 102 00:04:58,690 --> 00:05:00,730 S1: me an hour of your time. I can't replace it. 103 00:05:00,730 --> 00:05:02,730 S1: You gave us your story in the book quenched, and 104 00:05:02,730 --> 00:05:04,729 S1: I'm most grateful for that. But I want to thank 105 00:05:04,730 --> 00:05:07,289 S1: you also for throwing out a lifeline to other people, 106 00:05:07,290 --> 00:05:10,450 S1: women in particular, who are struggling in this area. But friend, 107 00:05:10,450 --> 00:05:13,170 S1: I got to ask you. Wow, it's one thing for 108 00:05:13,170 --> 00:05:16,130 S1: a small circle of friends to know your problem. You 109 00:05:16,130 --> 00:05:18,090 S1: put it on the printed page and it goes. Only 110 00:05:18,089 --> 00:05:21,130 S1: the Lord knows where around the globe. What compelled you 111 00:05:21,130 --> 00:05:21,770 S1: to do that? 112 00:05:23,290 --> 00:05:27,130 S6: That's a great question. Um, when I first was feeling 113 00:05:27,170 --> 00:05:32,969 S6: led to write back in, oh goodness, um, 2007, uh, 114 00:05:33,290 --> 00:05:34,730 S6: I was like, well, God, what on earth would I 115 00:05:34,770 --> 00:05:36,690 S6: write about? And it was like we were going to 116 00:05:36,690 --> 00:05:40,010 S6: share your story. And I said, absolutely not. Under no 117 00:05:40,010 --> 00:05:43,730 S6: circumstances is that what's going to happen here? And, um, 118 00:05:43,770 --> 00:05:46,650 S6: so I fought him hard for, for two years. I 119 00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:48,650 S6: tell people I kind of did a Jonah thing and 120 00:05:48,650 --> 00:05:51,650 S6: I just ran the complete opposite direction of anything that 121 00:05:51,650 --> 00:05:57,770 S6: looked like sharing my story, and I finally did anonymously 122 00:05:57,930 --> 00:06:00,770 S6: online and thought, there you go. Because I did have 123 00:06:00,770 --> 00:06:03,450 S6: this fear that I didn't want to be known as 124 00:06:03,450 --> 00:06:05,530 S6: the girl who talked about porn. I didn't want people 125 00:06:05,529 --> 00:06:07,290 S6: to know this part of my story. I wanted them 126 00:06:07,290 --> 00:06:10,610 S6: to know anything else about me except for this. And 127 00:06:11,010 --> 00:06:13,850 S6: so I was anonymous at first, and then people started 128 00:06:13,850 --> 00:06:17,490 S6: asking me to come and speak at their youth groups or, um, 129 00:06:17,529 --> 00:06:20,169 S6: their churches. And I thought, I have a problem because 130 00:06:20,170 --> 00:06:23,050 S6: you can be an anonymous writer, but you cannot be 131 00:06:23,410 --> 00:06:26,610 S6: an anonymous speaker. So I kind of it's. 132 00:06:26,610 --> 00:06:26,810 S1: Tough. 133 00:06:26,810 --> 00:06:26,890 S6: To. 134 00:06:26,930 --> 00:06:28,890 S1: Show up with a paper bag over your head. So 135 00:06:28,890 --> 00:06:31,250 S1: that doesn't work out very well in a public speaking. 136 00:06:31,410 --> 00:06:35,489 S6: Right? So I had to start, um, owning my story 137 00:06:35,529 --> 00:06:39,370 S6: kind of. And there was a really fundamental moment that 138 00:06:39,370 --> 00:06:41,770 S6: happened just a couple years after I started where I 139 00:06:41,770 --> 00:06:46,169 S6: was at a college conference for women, um, leading a 140 00:06:46,170 --> 00:06:49,490 S6: workshop for women. And I had chosen lust as the 141 00:06:49,490 --> 00:06:51,650 S6: topic of my workshop. And when women found out that 142 00:06:51,650 --> 00:06:55,369 S6: the topic was lust and not dating or beauty or 143 00:06:55,410 --> 00:06:58,010 S6: the Proverbs 31 wife. You know, when they found out 144 00:06:58,010 --> 00:07:01,250 S6: we were talking about lust, the workshop completely packed out 145 00:07:01,250 --> 00:07:04,089 S6: to the point that there were women standing around the room, 146 00:07:04,330 --> 00:07:08,330 S6: sitting on the floor, even. And I thought, listen, I'm 147 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:12,210 S6: no like, I am not anybody who knows. Like, no 148 00:07:12,210 --> 00:07:14,610 S6: one knows my name. I'm not Ann Voskamp. I'm not 149 00:07:14,610 --> 00:07:18,370 S6: Beth Moore. Like I am nobody in this context. And 150 00:07:18,890 --> 00:07:22,330 S6: so what are all these women doing here? And it just, 151 00:07:22,370 --> 00:07:25,250 S6: it hit me that the topic is just so not 152 00:07:25,250 --> 00:07:29,250 S6: talked about. And I felt like in that moment, God 153 00:07:29,250 --> 00:07:32,210 S6: was saying, you can have a go if you want 154 00:07:32,210 --> 00:07:34,570 S6: that other life that you were dreaming of where you 155 00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:36,370 S6: get to, you know, go into the medical field or 156 00:07:36,370 --> 00:07:39,650 S6: whatever it is, you can have it, but you can 157 00:07:39,650 --> 00:07:41,810 S6: also be part of this. You can be part of 158 00:07:41,810 --> 00:07:44,890 S6: what I want to do here and with these women 159 00:07:44,890 --> 00:07:49,170 S6: and in this field. And I just thought, man, I 160 00:07:49,170 --> 00:07:51,410 S6: know what it's like to be them. And I know 161 00:07:51,410 --> 00:07:55,610 S6: what it's like to be looking for hope and for answers. 162 00:07:56,130 --> 00:07:59,330 S6: And I thought, I can't leave them here. Like I, 163 00:07:59,450 --> 00:08:03,850 S6: I can't leave them behind. I know how to get out. 164 00:08:03,850 --> 00:08:07,010 S6: And I know what it's like to want those that 165 00:08:07,010 --> 00:08:10,010 S6: hope and that freedom and to feel like it's impossible. 166 00:08:10,410 --> 00:08:13,010 S6: And how can I just walk away and leave them there? 167 00:08:13,010 --> 00:08:17,369 S6: And so I had this, this moment that that year of, okay, God, 168 00:08:17,370 --> 00:08:19,730 S6: whatever you want to do with this, however you want 169 00:08:19,770 --> 00:08:22,810 S6: to use it, I'm, I'm in and I'm here now. 170 00:08:22,850 --> 00:08:25,490 S6: I've obviously doubted. I think we all have those moments too, 171 00:08:25,530 --> 00:08:27,250 S6: of like, did I make the right choice when I 172 00:08:27,250 --> 00:08:30,050 S6: said I was all in, I'm not so sure anymore. Um, 173 00:08:30,090 --> 00:08:33,210 S6: so I've definitely had those moments, but it is just 174 00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:36,250 S6: so neat to see how even the conversation in the 175 00:08:36,250 --> 00:08:38,690 S6: church has changed. And that's really been my heart in 176 00:08:38,690 --> 00:08:41,929 S6: doing this. It's not to flaunt my story. Like I don't, I, 177 00:08:42,210 --> 00:08:45,050 S6: I don't do this because I think my story is like, cool, 178 00:08:45,050 --> 00:08:47,730 S6: I do it because I, I think it's important that 179 00:08:47,730 --> 00:08:50,850 S6: the church changes the conversation and starts talking to women 180 00:08:50,850 --> 00:08:52,010 S6: about this topic. 181 00:08:52,050 --> 00:08:55,250 S1: Wow wow, wow. If you had submitted a script for 182 00:08:55,250 --> 00:08:58,130 S1: approval on what you wanted to see in the first segment, 183 00:08:58,490 --> 00:09:00,890 S1: this would have gotten an A plus, plus, plus, plus. 184 00:09:00,890 --> 00:09:03,809 S1: You set this up so perfectly. And Jessica, you are 185 00:09:03,809 --> 00:09:05,970 S1: a reminder that out of the overflow of the heart, 186 00:09:06,010 --> 00:09:08,850 S1: the mouth speaks. So this is about you helping other 187 00:09:08,850 --> 00:09:11,250 S1: people who struggle. And the fact that on a college campus, 188 00:09:11,250 --> 00:09:14,209 S1: it was standing room only. It's a profound reminder that 189 00:09:14,210 --> 00:09:17,130 S1: it's not a gender specific issue. It is a heart issue. 190 00:09:17,490 --> 00:09:20,809 S1: Individuals who will remain single can struggle with this. Engaged 191 00:09:20,809 --> 00:09:24,090 S1: people can struggle with this. Married people can struggle with this. 192 00:09:24,090 --> 00:09:27,209 S1: So this is a temptation that is there before every 193 00:09:27,210 --> 00:09:30,050 S1: single one of us. It's just not been addressed at 194 00:09:30,050 --> 00:09:32,809 S1: all about women in this area. And the numbers say 195 00:09:32,809 --> 00:09:36,850 S1: that about, well, 20% of Christian women use porn. One 196 00:09:36,850 --> 00:09:38,850 S1: out of five of us. This is a big issue. 197 00:09:38,890 --> 00:09:45,610 S1: We're just getting started with Jessica Harris. Are you living 198 00:09:45,610 --> 00:09:48,370 S1: with a biblically based, passionate faith, or are you pulling 199 00:09:48,370 --> 00:09:50,970 S1: back from letting your light shine? That's why I've chosen 200 00:09:50,970 --> 00:09:53,410 S1: Cole to take a bold stand as this month's truth tool. 201 00:09:53,450 --> 00:09:55,810 S1: Learn how to influence the culture for Christ in a 202 00:09:55,809 --> 00:09:58,530 S1: transformative way. As for your copy of call to take 203 00:09:58,530 --> 00:10:00,170 S1: a bold stand when you give a gift of any 204 00:10:00,170 --> 00:10:05,610 S1: amount to. In the market, call 87758. That's 87758 or 205 00:10:05,610 --> 00:10:08,170 S1: go to in the market with Janet dot o r g. 206 00:10:10,970 --> 00:10:13,850 S1: Jessica Harris is with us this entire hour. She's a 207 00:10:13,890 --> 00:10:16,690 S1: writer and international speaker, and she joins us as the 208 00:10:16,690 --> 00:10:21,449 S1: author of Quenched Discovering God's Abundant Grace for Women Struggling 209 00:10:21,450 --> 00:10:24,969 S1: with Pornography and Sexual Shame. Jessica, you write that you 210 00:10:25,010 --> 00:10:28,610 S1: grew up in a conservative Christian home. So I'm asking 211 00:10:28,610 --> 00:10:31,370 S1: only because it's part of your testimony, and I rest 212 00:10:31,370 --> 00:10:33,730 S1: in the assurance that I'm not violating your privacy or 213 00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:36,370 S1: making you uncomfortable in any way. But how does a 214 00:10:36,370 --> 00:10:39,410 S1: good Christian girl finally bump into porn? How does that happen? 215 00:10:39,690 --> 00:10:42,970 S6: Yeah, no. Great question. Um, I so this is back 216 00:10:42,970 --> 00:10:45,689 S6: in the land of dial up internet and floppy disk, 217 00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:49,569 S6: just for context, so that everybody listening understands what we're 218 00:10:49,570 --> 00:10:54,010 S6: talking about here. Um, the internet was relatively new, I think, 219 00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:56,809 S6: at that time, or at least like not everyone had 220 00:10:56,809 --> 00:10:58,290 S6: it in their homes. It was kind of a cool 221 00:10:58,290 --> 00:11:01,370 S6: thing to have access to the internet. And I don't 222 00:11:01,370 --> 00:11:04,530 S6: think we really understood the dangers that lurked on the 223 00:11:04,530 --> 00:11:09,090 S6: internet at that point. And I was just researching for school. Honestly, 224 00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:13,970 S6: I just was online looking for science videos or researching 225 00:11:13,970 --> 00:11:18,490 S6: science videos. And nestled on this website with a bunch 226 00:11:18,490 --> 00:11:22,890 S6: of other educational videos was a video of hardcore pornography. 227 00:11:23,330 --> 00:11:26,929 S6: So that is how I found it. And then I 228 00:11:27,410 --> 00:11:30,450 S6: clicked on that video and pop up after pop up 229 00:11:30,450 --> 00:11:32,770 S6: after pop up. I just got sucked into this pop 230 00:11:32,809 --> 00:11:35,770 S6: up vortex that I couldn't seem to stop, and I 231 00:11:35,770 --> 00:11:41,100 S6: ended up on an actual porn site. And again, 13 232 00:11:41,140 --> 00:11:44,140 S6: at the time had grown up in a Christian home 233 00:11:44,140 --> 00:11:47,460 S6: and active in the church. But we also never talked 234 00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:53,180 S6: about sex. And so other than to say, don't have it. 235 00:11:53,179 --> 00:11:55,940 S6: So in my 13 year old brain, I was like, well, 236 00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:59,420 S6: this isn't technically that, so this must be okay. This 237 00:11:59,420 --> 00:12:01,780 S6: must be fine for me to look at. I didn't 238 00:12:02,260 --> 00:12:05,740 S6: think anything of it really. Um, just thought, okay, this 239 00:12:05,740 --> 00:12:11,100 S6: is how I can express and explore this realm kind 240 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:13,540 S6: of without breaking any of the rules. So it seemed 241 00:12:13,540 --> 00:12:15,780 S6: like a safe thing at the time. Um, when I 242 00:12:15,780 --> 00:12:17,860 S6: first found it, it was a little scary, but it 243 00:12:17,860 --> 00:12:20,900 S6: was also like, oh, this is what everyone was talking about. 244 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:24,220 S6: How intriguing. And I kind of got into it that way. 245 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:27,780 S1: Yeah, yeah. But it's the Pied Piper of Hamelin. So 246 00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:29,860 S1: you look at it and you go, this is safe. 247 00:12:29,860 --> 00:12:32,340 S1: This is distance. Oh, I stumbled, I'm not really doing 248 00:12:32,340 --> 00:12:35,580 S1: anything wrong. But in the meantime, you're totally unaware in 249 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:37,940 S1: your 13 year old mind that your brain is literally 250 00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:41,620 S1: being rewired by looking at these pictures. So when did 251 00:12:41,620 --> 00:12:44,740 S1: you know that you went from a casual observance actually 252 00:12:44,740 --> 00:12:48,380 S1: stumbling onto this to, oh my, I'm in the spider's web. 253 00:12:48,860 --> 00:12:52,540 S6: Right? Probably when I was 17. So about four years later, 254 00:12:53,059 --> 00:12:57,300 S6: I it was consuming my life. Every spare moment that 255 00:12:57,300 --> 00:12:59,780 S6: I had, I would get home. And again, this is 256 00:12:59,780 --> 00:13:01,300 S6: dial up. So I would call my mom at work 257 00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:03,219 S6: and I would say, hey, just so you know, I'm 258 00:13:03,220 --> 00:13:04,740 S6: going to be on the computer all day. Like, don't 259 00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:06,460 S6: try to call me because you won't be able to 260 00:13:06,460 --> 00:13:09,220 S6: get through. I'm researching for school, so I'm lying to her. 261 00:13:09,260 --> 00:13:11,420 S6: As soon as I get home from school and figuring 262 00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:13,260 S6: out when she plans to be home. So I knew 263 00:13:13,260 --> 00:13:17,540 S6: how many hours I had to be able to watch pornography. 264 00:13:17,540 --> 00:13:22,380 S6: I was reading erotica, which is written, um, stories on 265 00:13:22,380 --> 00:13:25,980 S6: school computers. So the computers at school and I was 266 00:13:25,980 --> 00:13:30,460 S6: staying up until all hours of the morning trying to 267 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:34,620 S6: catch scenes on the cable TV channels that we didn't get. 268 00:13:34,780 --> 00:13:36,179 S6: we didn't get them. And back in the day when 269 00:13:36,179 --> 00:13:38,340 S6: you didn't get them, it was just static. But sometimes 270 00:13:38,340 --> 00:13:40,340 S6: scenes would slip through. And so I would sit up 271 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:44,260 S6: all night just waiting for scenes to come through. So 272 00:13:44,260 --> 00:13:46,819 S6: I'm struggling with sleep, I'm struggling with school, I'm struggling 273 00:13:46,820 --> 00:13:50,300 S6: with grades. And I think to myself, okay, maybe I 274 00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:52,100 S6: need to cut back a little bit. Like this might 275 00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:54,260 S6: be a little out of its box. It might be 276 00:13:54,260 --> 00:13:57,859 S6: a little excessive. And when I try to cut back, 277 00:13:58,220 --> 00:14:01,500 S6: I found out that I couldn't. I felt helpless to 278 00:14:01,540 --> 00:14:04,180 S6: be able to do so. And then I started looking 279 00:14:04,179 --> 00:14:06,939 S6: for help. Like, how do you break free from pornography? 280 00:14:06,940 --> 00:14:09,980 S6: Or how do you stop watching pornography? And everything out 281 00:14:09,980 --> 00:14:13,620 S6: there was indicating that this was something that men struggled with, 282 00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:16,179 S6: but there was nothing for women. And so that's when 283 00:14:16,179 --> 00:14:19,780 S6: I thought, oh dear, what have what have I gotten 284 00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:23,340 S6: myself into? AM I the only woman in the world 285 00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:26,060 S6: who struggled with this? And I'm a Christian woman. So 286 00:14:26,060 --> 00:14:28,340 S6: obviously a lot of the resources out there for breaking 287 00:14:28,340 --> 00:14:30,660 S6: free from pornography are from a Christian point of view. 288 00:14:31,140 --> 00:14:33,180 S6: And by that point I kind of had more of 289 00:14:33,180 --> 00:14:36,420 S6: a moral understanding of what was wrong with pornography and 290 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:40,100 S6: why it might not be the best outlet for sexuality. 291 00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:44,260 S6: But but I just thought, man, I have got myself 292 00:14:44,260 --> 00:14:47,300 S6: stuck and I have no idea how to get out. 293 00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:50,220 S6: So I was probably 17, my senior year of high school. Oh. 294 00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:52,900 S1: Oh, that breaks my heart. The isolation that you must 295 00:14:52,940 --> 00:14:55,660 S1: have been feeling. Were you at all in any way? 296 00:14:55,660 --> 00:14:57,940 S1: Because it's garbage in, garbage out, as our moms used 297 00:14:57,940 --> 00:15:00,420 S1: to tell us and how right she was. So were 298 00:15:00,420 --> 00:15:03,100 S1: you acting out sexually in any way, or was it 299 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:06,020 S1: just a relationship between you and this unknown third party 300 00:15:06,020 --> 00:15:07,220 S1: and your computer screen? 301 00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:10,420 S6: I was not acting out, so I know that that's 302 00:15:10,620 --> 00:15:12,300 S6: a question people get a lot. Like, other than just 303 00:15:12,340 --> 00:15:15,140 S6: like my own fantasy world that I kind of lived in. 304 00:15:15,140 --> 00:15:19,220 S6: I wasn't actually sleeping with anybody. Had I been given 305 00:15:19,220 --> 00:15:25,140 S6: the opportunity, maybe. But I wasn't exactly like the star of, 306 00:15:25,340 --> 00:15:28,260 S6: you know, the school squad or anything. Like no one 307 00:15:28,260 --> 00:15:31,620 S6: was no one was asking to, to spend extra time 308 00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:34,740 S6: with me. And, um, I didn't really do a lot 309 00:15:34,740 --> 00:15:37,460 S6: of extra things around school, so I didn't necessarily have 310 00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:40,540 S6: the availability to be able to act out. I'm not 311 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:43,380 S6: sure if I would have or not, but I definitely, 312 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:47,180 S6: I guess, had a, a desire to do so. So 313 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:52,060 S6: like I would lie to my classmates about being sexually active, like, um, 314 00:15:52,060 --> 00:15:55,060 S6: and things like that where I wanted to be cool, 315 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:56,700 S6: like I wanted to be able to do that, but 316 00:15:56,700 --> 00:15:59,180 S6: there just wasn't the ability to do that at the time. 317 00:15:59,980 --> 00:16:02,540 S1: Jessica. Twice. I just want to pull over to the 318 00:16:02,540 --> 00:16:04,740 S1: side of the road because I love this. Twice. You 319 00:16:04,740 --> 00:16:09,020 S1: have referred to yourself in gentle, disparaging ways. I'm nobody. 320 00:16:09,020 --> 00:16:11,580 S1: I wasn't the star. And I'm sitting here smiling ear 321 00:16:11,580 --> 00:16:13,580 S1: to ear going, yeah, well, that's not the way God 322 00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:17,620 S1: saw it. He went, Jessica, come here. And he pulled 323 00:16:17,620 --> 00:16:19,780 S1: you out and he's used you now and hear you. 324 00:16:19,780 --> 00:16:22,660 S1: On her national radio platform telling your story of how 325 00:16:22,660 --> 00:16:24,540 S1: God worked in for and through you as you were 326 00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:26,820 S1: struggling in this particular area of your life. So I 327 00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:28,580 S1: just wanted to point that out for people who think 328 00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:31,020 S1: I'm a nobody. Not in God's economy. You aren't. Look 329 00:16:31,060 --> 00:16:34,460 S1: at yourself through heaven's eyes. That's not how he saw Jessica. 330 00:16:34,620 --> 00:16:37,460 S1: And it's absolutely not how he saw you. So let 331 00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:39,220 S1: me go back to this idea of, you know, the 332 00:16:39,220 --> 00:16:41,540 S1: poet said, no man is an island. Well, neither is 333 00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:45,180 S1: any woman an island. And you are literally alone thinking, 334 00:16:45,180 --> 00:16:48,060 S1: I need resources. You begin to look and the resources 335 00:16:48,060 --> 00:16:51,180 S1: are simply not available. Then. It's bad enough to say, 336 00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:54,780 S1: maybe somewhere in this internal moral compass, something's going off. 337 00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:57,660 S1: And maybe this isn't right. But you're not of the world. 338 00:16:57,660 --> 00:16:59,900 S1: You're a follower of Jesus Christ being raised in a 339 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:03,300 S1: Christian home. So it's, uh. Oh, I need help. I 340 00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:06,060 S1: don't see any resources. And oh, my word, where do 341 00:17:06,060 --> 00:17:09,940 S1: I go? Where they won't take me outside and stone 342 00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:12,179 S1: me because I'm quite sure that's probably what my future 343 00:17:12,180 --> 00:17:15,020 S1: is at this moment. That didn't happen. So I want 344 00:17:15,060 --> 00:17:18,340 S1: to pick up your story as a searching, herding 17 345 00:17:18,380 --> 00:17:20,979 S1: year old. When we get back, Jessica Harris is with us. 346 00:17:20,980 --> 00:17:24,980 S1: She's the author of Quenched Discovering God's Abundant Grace for 347 00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:28,460 S1: Women Struggling with Pornography and Sexual sin only because God 348 00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:30,460 S1: has blessed this program with a big footprint. You know what? 349 00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:33,420 S1: I know there's somebody listening right now that's going, that's 350 00:17:33,420 --> 00:17:36,659 S1: my story. That's where I'm at. Oh, stick around. We 351 00:17:36,660 --> 00:17:49,580 S1: haven't even gotten to the best part yet. Jessica Harris 352 00:17:49,619 --> 00:17:52,860 S1: is the author of Quench Discovering God's Abundant Grace for 353 00:17:52,859 --> 00:17:56,820 S1: women Struggling with Pornography and Sexual Shame. So, Jessica, let 354 00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:58,940 S1: me go back to that moment where you said, I 355 00:17:58,980 --> 00:18:01,139 S1: need to dial it back. I need some help. And, 356 00:18:01,140 --> 00:18:03,180 S1: uh oh, there's a lot of stuff here for men, 357 00:18:03,180 --> 00:18:05,900 S1: but there's nothing here for women. This was a seminal 358 00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:08,540 S1: moment in your life because you were literally looking at 359 00:18:08,540 --> 00:18:10,140 S1: a fork in the road, and you could have gone 360 00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:12,820 S1: one of two ways. One have been utter disaster and 361 00:18:12,820 --> 00:18:15,540 S1: the other was the road toward healing. Tell me how 362 00:18:15,540 --> 00:18:17,420 S1: you made the choice and what choice you made. 363 00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:19,980 S6: Well, it was kind of a it was a long 364 00:18:20,020 --> 00:18:25,580 S6: fork in the road. Um, I at that immediate point, 365 00:18:25,580 --> 00:18:28,540 S6: I thought, there's no way I can tell anybody. I 366 00:18:28,660 --> 00:18:32,900 S6: was in a very conservative church with a very aging staff, 367 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:37,340 S6: and I just remember thinking, I cannot tell these pastors 368 00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:39,500 S6: and deacons wives who are old enough to be my 369 00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:44,700 S6: grandma that I'm struggling with this. My grandfather, my grandfather's, 370 00:18:44,740 --> 00:18:47,139 S6: a deacon. My grandmother teaches Sunday school. My mom sings 371 00:18:47,140 --> 00:18:49,940 S6: in the choir like I will ruin my entire family 372 00:18:49,940 --> 00:18:52,780 S6: in this church if I come forward and I share this. 373 00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:56,180 S6: So I thought, okay, I'm going to wait basically until 374 00:18:56,180 --> 00:18:59,660 S6: I get to college, then maybe I'll get caught at college. 375 00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:03,500 S6: Surely a college, a Christian college. They've seen this before. 376 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:06,940 S6: They deal with young women all the time, obviously. And 377 00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:10,980 S6: I was going to a rather large Christian liberal arts university. 378 00:19:10,980 --> 00:19:14,740 S6: And so I head off to college and my use 379 00:19:14,740 --> 00:19:18,139 S6: actually escalated there at college. And so sure enough, I 380 00:19:18,140 --> 00:19:22,660 S6: got caught and um, they're at college, they actually said, 381 00:19:23,020 --> 00:19:27,710 S6: we know this wasn't you. Women don't have this problem, so. Oh, my. 382 00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:30,709 S6: My hope for freedom took a bit of a detour 383 00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:35,230 S6: because I thought, wow, I am the only woman in 384 00:19:35,230 --> 00:19:38,590 S6: the world who's done this. And there is something fundamentally 385 00:19:38,590 --> 00:19:42,830 S6: wrong with me that they've they've never seen this before. Like, 386 00:19:42,869 --> 00:19:46,790 S6: how on earth am I the first person that they've 387 00:19:46,790 --> 00:19:49,950 S6: seen and they just can't believe it to the point 388 00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:53,030 S6: that they're accusing me of giving my password for the 389 00:19:53,030 --> 00:19:56,190 S6: internet out to my guy friends and yelling at me 390 00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:58,669 S6: about how I'm not protecting my brothers in Christ, and 391 00:19:58,670 --> 00:20:00,430 S6: how I need to be a better sister in Christ, 392 00:20:00,430 --> 00:20:02,510 S6: and how the brothers need help. And I just thought, 393 00:20:02,510 --> 00:20:05,910 S6: I'm the one who needs help. Um, and I just 394 00:20:05,910 --> 00:20:08,510 S6: remember feeling so swallowed by shame. That's what that is 395 00:20:08,510 --> 00:20:11,910 S6: when shame just kind of crushed me. Because up until then, 396 00:20:11,910 --> 00:20:14,390 S6: it had just been a fear maybe. And that was 397 00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:17,430 S6: when it was like a reality for me of, wow, 398 00:20:17,470 --> 00:20:21,229 S6: I really am alone. Um, and so I kind of, 399 00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:23,550 S6: I gave up so that I wanted freedom and I 400 00:20:23,550 --> 00:20:27,550 S6: wanted out, but that that conversation created a bit of a, 401 00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:29,390 S6: like I said, a bit of a detour off of 402 00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:32,830 S6: the path of hope and freedom and healing because, um, 403 00:20:32,869 --> 00:20:35,669 S6: I just thought, wow, there's no way God could love me, 404 00:20:35,710 --> 00:20:38,470 S6: you know? And it was this very much this prayer 405 00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:40,629 S6: of like, I'm sorry, God, I know you want to 406 00:20:40,670 --> 00:20:43,790 S6: love me, but apparently I am not lovable at this point. 407 00:20:43,790 --> 00:20:49,310 S6: Apparently I have messed up too much. This is too big. And, uh, 408 00:20:49,310 --> 00:20:51,429 S6: so I kind of made the decision then that if 409 00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:54,110 S6: I couldn't be the good Christian girl who used to 410 00:20:54,150 --> 00:20:56,430 S6: watch porn, then I. I felt like I didn't have 411 00:20:56,430 --> 00:20:58,070 S6: a choice other than to be the porn star who 412 00:20:58,109 --> 00:20:59,869 S6: used to be a Christian. So I'm 17 years old 413 00:20:59,869 --> 00:21:02,070 S6: at a Christian college, grew up in a Christian home, 414 00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:05,030 S6: and I'm going. I don't know what else to do 415 00:21:05,030 --> 00:21:06,949 S6: with my life. Like, I feel so hopeless and I 416 00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:09,350 S6: feel so lost that the only thing left for me 417 00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:12,150 S6: is to just give up and go into the industry, 418 00:21:12,150 --> 00:21:15,430 S6: because those people would probably understand me. I didn't want to, 419 00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:19,550 S6: but it was just this feeling of, of hopelessness. Um, 420 00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:22,590 S6: and God intervened in major ways in my life over 421 00:21:22,590 --> 00:21:25,869 S6: the next year or so. And I ended up at 422 00:21:25,869 --> 00:21:29,510 S6: Bible College the following fall, a different college. And that 423 00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:33,869 S6: is when they, uh, the dean staff pulled all the 424 00:21:33,869 --> 00:21:37,629 S6: female students together and said, listen, we know some of 425 00:21:37,630 --> 00:21:40,310 S6: you struggle with pornography and we want to help you. 426 00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:44,310 S6: And it was in that safe environment of a room 427 00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:47,510 S6: full of Christian women. And they're saying that I'm not 428 00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:49,629 S6: alone in a room of Christian women. You know, it 429 00:21:49,630 --> 00:21:51,230 S6: was I thought I was the only woman in the world, 430 00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:53,350 S6: Christian or not, who had gotten into this. And now 431 00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:56,750 S6: you're telling me in a room full of other Christian 432 00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:58,830 S6: women that I'm not alone, that there's other women in 433 00:21:58,830 --> 00:22:02,870 S6: this room who struggle too, and that there's help? And 434 00:22:02,869 --> 00:22:05,109 S6: that was the conversation where I was able to say, 435 00:22:05,109 --> 00:22:07,390 S6: this is my struggle, this is my story. And like, 436 00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:08,750 S6: how do I get out of here? 437 00:22:09,390 --> 00:22:11,750 S1: So let me pause for a minute because wow, there's 438 00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:14,510 S1: just so much there. First of all, the dean makes 439 00:22:14,510 --> 00:22:17,070 S1: these statements unprompted that, you know, of. I mean, he 440 00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:19,350 S1: calls the women together and then makes this declaration. If 441 00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:21,830 S1: the answer to that question is yes, where do you 442 00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:24,030 S1: think that discernment came from on the part of the 443 00:22:24,030 --> 00:22:25,590 S1: dean to say to the women, we know this is 444 00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:28,389 S1: an area that you struggle with, whereas the big college 445 00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:31,989 S1: you were at before Christian and Nature was failing to 446 00:22:32,030 --> 00:22:34,750 S1: recognize that this is not a gender specific issue. 447 00:22:35,109 --> 00:22:39,230 S6: Right. I think it was honestly just the the Holy Spirit. Honestly, 448 00:22:39,230 --> 00:22:42,790 S6: I think that it's probably something they had seen before. 449 00:22:42,790 --> 00:22:47,990 S6: They were a very just aware and, and they wouldn't 450 00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:49,869 S6: have been the type of women who would say, we 451 00:22:49,869 --> 00:22:51,590 S6: know this wasn't you. Like they would have opened up 452 00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:55,310 S6: the conversation and asked questions. And so I'm sure my 453 00:22:55,310 --> 00:22:57,950 S6: class coming through wasn't the first class that they had 454 00:22:57,950 --> 00:23:00,429 S6: seen it in. And so they knew then that it 455 00:23:00,430 --> 00:23:03,150 S6: was an issue that they needed to address, and they 456 00:23:03,150 --> 00:23:06,070 S6: came at it from the angle of strongholds and how 457 00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:08,470 S6: sometimes as Christians, we can have strongholds in our lives 458 00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:09,989 S6: where we're trying to live for the Lord and all 459 00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:12,910 S6: these other areas. But we're holding on to this one 460 00:23:12,910 --> 00:23:14,870 S6: little pet sin kind of, you know, like, I'm just 461 00:23:14,869 --> 00:23:16,870 S6: going to keep this, I'll do everything else, but I'm 462 00:23:16,869 --> 00:23:19,150 S6: going to. I'm going to hold on to this little place. 463 00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:21,830 S6: And they said, that's an area where the enemy still 464 00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:24,630 S6: has a foothold in your life. And until you are 465 00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:28,229 S6: willing to tear that down and, and surrender that, then 466 00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:30,669 S6: God doesn't have your life and you're going to feel 467 00:23:30,670 --> 00:23:32,590 S6: like your prayers are bouncing off the ceiling, and you're 468 00:23:32,590 --> 00:23:34,149 S6: going to feel like you can't get anywhere. And your 469 00:23:34,150 --> 00:23:35,869 S6: walk with the Lord. And I was like, that is me. 470 00:23:35,910 --> 00:23:38,030 S6: Tell me what's wrong with me. And then they said, 471 00:23:38,270 --> 00:23:39,990 S6: we know some of you struggle with pornography. And I 472 00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:42,909 S6: was like, anything but that like, I don't want to 473 00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:44,949 S6: have to. I don't want to have to be the 474 00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:47,590 S6: person who has to share that this is this is 475 00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:50,670 S6: what I'm struggling with. But I did have a moment 476 00:23:50,670 --> 00:23:52,989 S6: where I was like, did they read my journal? Like, 477 00:23:52,990 --> 00:23:55,830 S6: how did they find out about me here? But but 478 00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:58,430 S6: I was not the only one in that room who struggled. 479 00:23:58,430 --> 00:24:02,030 S1: So wow, wow. So when we come back, take us 480 00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:04,550 S1: on the road to recovery because it's one thing to say, 481 00:24:05,109 --> 00:24:07,430 S1: thank you, Lord. In the midst of my struggles, you've 482 00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:09,910 S1: reminded me I'm not alone. I never was, but thank 483 00:24:09,910 --> 00:24:12,710 S1: you for reminding me that I'm definitely not alone and 484 00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:15,790 S1: that there is a way out. Walk me through that road. 485 00:24:15,790 --> 00:24:18,750 S1: Because at this point in your years of struggling in 486 00:24:18,750 --> 00:24:22,310 S1: this particular area, again, it isn't just a spiritual issue, 487 00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:25,310 S1: but it's also an emotional and a mental and a 488 00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:28,590 S1: physical issue because the brain literally gets rewired on this stuff. 489 00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:31,669 S1: So tell me how you found real hope and healing 490 00:24:31,670 --> 00:24:34,070 S1: in this journey. When we get back? Jessica Harris is 491 00:24:34,109 --> 00:24:36,510 S1: with us. We're talking with her about her book Quenched 492 00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:44,990 S1: Back after this. When we tackle tough issues on in 493 00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:47,070 S1: the market, do you find yourself nodding in agreement? Then 494 00:24:47,070 --> 00:24:48,869 S1: why not take the next step today and become a 495 00:24:48,869 --> 00:24:51,469 S1: partial partner? Your monthly gift will help to keep us 496 00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:53,790 S1: on the air, and you'll receive exclusive behind the scenes 497 00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:56,869 S1: resources directly from me, like a transcript of my weekly 498 00:24:56,869 --> 00:25:00,430 S1: commentary and exclusive weekly audio briefing and more. Become one 499 00:25:00,430 --> 00:25:03,030 S1: of our partial partners today by calling eight seven, seven 500 00:25:03,030 --> 00:25:05,909 S1: Janet 58 or go online to In the Market with Janet. 501 00:25:05,910 --> 00:25:11,270 S1: Partial dot o r g. Such an important conversation. What 502 00:25:11,270 --> 00:25:13,270 S1: is it like as a woman in particular, to be 503 00:25:13,270 --> 00:25:16,350 S1: struggling with the issue of pornography and sexual shame? If 504 00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:18,310 S1: you're just joining us, Mom and dad, I want to 505 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:21,150 S1: remind you this is an age appropriate conversation, but a 506 00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:25,550 S1: very important one because women do struggle in this area. 507 00:25:25,550 --> 00:25:27,429 S1: And yes, the church is not exempt from this at 508 00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:29,990 S1: all by any stretch of the imagination. So I want 509 00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:31,429 S1: to repeat again what I said at the top of 510 00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:35,109 S1: the hour how much respect, unbridled admiration I have for Jessica, 511 00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:37,590 S1: because she's been willing to put her story out there 512 00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:41,149 S1: knowing that there was so much shame and isolation, steeped 513 00:25:41,150 --> 00:25:44,070 S1: in her experience at one point in time. But now 514 00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:47,230 S1: no longer. She's not unlike the woman at the well. 515 00:25:47,230 --> 00:25:48,990 S1: Let me tell you about the one who's told me 516 00:25:48,990 --> 00:25:52,830 S1: everything I've ever done. And it's out there declaring to 517 00:25:52,830 --> 00:25:56,030 S1: the world what Jesus can do in for and through us. 518 00:25:56,030 --> 00:25:58,750 S1: She talks about it in her book, Quenched Discovering God's 519 00:25:58,750 --> 00:26:02,109 S1: Abundant Grace for women struggling with pornography and Sexual Shame. 520 00:26:02,109 --> 00:26:04,310 S1: So thanks be to God. You're in a Bible school. 521 00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:06,270 S1: The dean pulls women into the room and says, I 522 00:26:06,270 --> 00:26:08,990 S1: know people in this room are struggling. You realize you're 523 00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:12,760 S1: not alone. You realize there are resources. Where does somebody 524 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,920 S1: and I'm talking to people now all over the country 525 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,800 S1: who are listening to us, Jessica, if their story replicates 526 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,240 S1: yours in oh, so many ways and they realize, Lord, 527 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,280 S1: now I've got to start doing something now, you know, 528 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,479 S1: the enemy loves to sit in your shoulder going, are 529 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,479 S1: you kidding me? Do you know who you are and 530 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,280 S1: what you've done? Forget about it. And yet you have 531 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,560 S1: that other voice that says, now, therefore, there is no 532 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,480 S1: condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So where 533 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,720 S1: does one begin the journey? How does one begin the journey? 534 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,160 S1: And I'm guessing it's not a 50 yard dash. There's 535 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,680 S1: a marathon aspect to this. 536 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,919 S6: It's definitely, definitely more of a marathon for sure. It 537 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,159 S6: might even be more of like an ultra marathon. Um, 538 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,840 S6: maybe even an Ironman got a few different levels of 539 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,399 S6: intensity here. Um, I, I, I start the same place 540 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,600 S6: with everybody when they, I get emails from women all 541 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,879 S6: the time sharing their stories and essentially saying, where do 542 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,119 S6: I go from here? What do I do next? And 543 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,359 S6: my answer is almost always the same. You need to 544 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,040 S6: tell somebody. And that's not. Sometimes when I say that, 545 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,040 S6: people are like, well, that's that's shame, you know? Like, 546 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,159 S6: I should be able to do this by myself. And no, no, 547 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,480 S6: shame is the one telling you to do it by yourself. 548 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,840 S6: We we have it backwards here. Um, shame is the 549 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,560 S6: one telling you you have to figure this out on 550 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,560 S6: your own. Shame is the one telling you that you 551 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,040 S6: can't tell anybody. Shame is the one that's saying if 552 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,520 S6: you say something, something bad is going to happen to you. 553 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,600 S6: You'll lose your marriage, you lose your job, whatever it 554 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,639 S6: is that you're afraid of, that's shame. That's not grace. 555 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,200 S6: And grace calls us into community. It calls us into 556 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,280 S6: the light. It calls us into reconciliation with God and 557 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:54,719 S6: with other people. So I challenge women. You start fighting 558 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,840 S6: this fight by fighting the fight against shame first and saying, 559 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,040 S6: you know what? I am going to risk this because 560 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,959 S6: my freedom and walking in the light is worth that risk. 561 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,600 S6: I am going to tell somebody, and I am going 562 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,400 S6: to to share my story with somebody. And it's not 563 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,560 S6: about confession like you see in the, the, you know, 564 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,520 S6: the crime shows. Like it's not I'm confessing. I'm turning 565 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,800 S6: myself in, you know, giving me my punishment. That's not 566 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,959 S6: why we do it. We're, we're doing it to bring 567 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,960 S6: things into the light and to bring grace into the conversation. 568 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,399 S6: And so I try to tell women, share your story. 569 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,520 S6: Don't look at it as like confession, because I think 570 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,560 S6: we have a bad image of that now, but be 571 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,600 S6: open and authentic and honest with somebody about this being 572 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,800 S6: a part of your story. And it needs to be 573 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,680 S6: somebody in your community and in your space because yes, 574 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,720 S6: it's nice to get it off your chest to an 575 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,080 S6: online stranger. When women email me, they always feel better 576 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,400 S6: because they feel safe, because I've been there. And so 577 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,400 S6: they know they can't say anything to me that's going 578 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,520 S6: to scare me or make me judge them. But I 579 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,440 S6: also don't know them. And so there's not the relationship 580 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,760 S6: there that can help bring healing and grace. I can 581 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,240 S6: affirm and I can encourage, but at the end of 582 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,720 S6: the day, I'm just a voice on the other side 583 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,960 S6: of the screen. And so I encourage women, tell somebody 584 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,600 S6: in your face and in your space, and if you 585 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,479 S6: don't have anybody, then pray for God to bring someone 586 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,280 S6: that you can share your story with. 587 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,719 S1: Book of Proverbs. You want to tell somebody, but you 588 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,240 S1: want to tell the right somebody. A wise person, not 589 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,640 S1: a fool. How does one. And I bet there are 590 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,240 S1: a whole lot of people for whom that question just 591 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,760 S1: came to their mind. Wow. How do I pick the 592 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,600 S1: right person to tell? Because once I tell, you know, 593 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,200 S1: we've all seen the cover of the post, uh, the 594 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,280 S1: Saturday Evening Post where Norman Rockwell's famous painting of the 595 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,840 S1: two people start up here and there's a whole bunch 596 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,000 S1: of couples back and forth until the end, and that's 597 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,920 S1: the perfect picture of gossip. So how does one do 598 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,280 S1: this in such a way that you're beginning? I loved 599 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,000 S1: your phrase. You're beginning to walk in the light. But 600 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,760 S1: if you start by telling the wrong person, it's not 601 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,800 S1: going to help you get there. So how did you 602 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,040 S1: choose the right person? 603 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,520 S6: Well, I just I shared with the dean staff who 604 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,280 S6: had said, we know some of you struggle with this 605 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,960 S6: and we want to help you because the rest of 606 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,120 S6: that conversation was all right. Everybody in this room, regardless 607 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,480 S6: of what your stronghold is, needs to write it down 608 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,760 S6: on a sheet of paper and turn it in. So 609 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,320 S6: I kind of had a God kind of was like, listen, 610 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,720 S6: you've been looking for an opportunity to share your story 611 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,320 S6: and like, this is literally this is it. Like, this is, 612 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,640 S6: I can't do any better than this. Like this is it. Um, 613 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,800 S6: and obviously not every woman's going to have that opportunity. 614 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,959 S6: You know, we're not going to have church events. I mean, 615 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,560 S6: you can have me come to your church. I'll gladly 616 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,160 S6: do it. But we're not going to have events where 617 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,960 S6: women are saying, write it down if you're one of 618 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,920 S6: these women. So I really encourage women, find someone who's 619 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,640 S6: where you want to go, because so often women who 620 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,760 S6: struggle with this are trying to look for someone who's 621 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,240 S6: been where they are. And so they'll end up sharing 622 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,280 S6: with somebody who maybe isn't far enough along in the 623 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,920 S6: road of healing, or somebody else who's struggling just as much. 624 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,560 S6: And then they just don't really help each other well, 625 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,280 S6: because they're both struggling. And so I encourage women, look, 626 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,680 S6: find a woman who you want to be like, kind 627 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,720 S6: of who you want to emulate, who loves Jesus, who 628 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,720 S6: loves the Lord. And when you're looking for that, hopefully 629 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,880 S6: you're not going to find somebody who's a gossip or 630 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,400 S6: who's unkind or who has a bitterness or who shames people. 631 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,400 S6: You're looking for somebody who is gentle and kind and 632 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,800 S6: who loves Jesus and who's passionate about following him, and 633 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,440 S6: who's living the life of freedom that you picture for yourself. 634 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,640 S6: If I could be free, who would I be? Who 635 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,200 S6: would I want to be like? Pick that person, find 636 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,680 S6: that person and share your story with them. Because they 637 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,480 S6: don't have to know where you've been to know how 638 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,400 S6: to get you where you want to go. The women 639 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,240 S6: that I talk to at my college did not have 640 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,360 S6: experience with online pornography, but they were able to help 641 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:13,000 S6: me grow in so many different ways, whether that was 642 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,640 S6: becoming more emotionally stable because pornography had become a coping 643 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,200 S6: mechanism for me. Every kind of emotion, I went to it. 644 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,440 S6: So they were working on that. They were working on 645 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,080 S6: how to have healthy relationships, how not to be so 646 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,080 S6: defensive and angry with people all the time. They were 647 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,640 S6: working on other things that are equally as important as 648 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,080 S6: breaking free from pornography. And so there was one woman 649 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,920 S6: who was my accountability partner, so to speak. But then 650 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,160 S6: I had a team of women who had surrounded me 651 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,240 S6: and were helping me to grow in who I'm meant 652 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,880 S6: to be in Christ. So if you're a woman going, 653 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,280 S6: I don't know who it is to share this with. 654 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,120 S6: And you can always look for a counselor too, but 655 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,400 S6: find somebody who is where you want to be and 656 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,240 S6: ask her to help you get there. 657 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,800 S1: So the accountability part is very crucial because you're not 658 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,320 S1: doing this alone. They would hold you accountable. How do 659 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,320 S1: you individually, when you're not accessible to that other person 660 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,920 S1: and you're trying to break the chains? You know, it's 661 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,400 S1: not unlike A Christmas Carol. The chain I bear, I 662 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,360 S1: made link by link and yard by yard. Marley says 663 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,040 S1: to to Ebenezer Scrooge, how do you break the chains 664 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,959 S1: that you yourself built through practice? This is where the 665 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,720 S1: addiction aspect comes in. And that's why when you talked 666 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,600 S1: about it being a very long marathon, this is the 667 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,000 S1: difficult part of it because addiction usually says one foot 668 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,120 S1: forward and a couple of steps back, and that's the 669 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,160 S1: pattern of recovery. How did you handle that in your life? 670 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,920 S6: Oh, it's very discouraging at first because you think like, 671 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,280 S6: you might have a really good day and you're like, ah, 672 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,760 S6: I got this. But it's I mean, think about a 673 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,640 S6: New Year's resolution, right? So January 1st, we hit the 674 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,000 S6: gym and we eat right, and we do all the 675 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,520 S6: right things and then we just keep going, keep going, 676 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,850 S6: keep going. And by my January 7th, we're like, I'm out, 677 00:33:56,850 --> 00:34:00,210 S6: I'm done. You know, where's where's the chips? Like, where's 678 00:34:00,210 --> 00:34:03,170 S6: the ice cream? I'm over it. Um, and it can 679 00:34:03,170 --> 00:34:05,610 S6: be the same way when you're like wanting to break 680 00:34:05,610 --> 00:34:08,130 S6: free from something and you just kind of gather up 681 00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:11,290 S6: the willpower to delete the stuff off your phone or 682 00:34:11,290 --> 00:34:15,970 S6: to lock up the computer and to text your accountability partner. And, 683 00:34:15,969 --> 00:34:18,730 S6: and then you kind of begin to wane in that 684 00:34:18,730 --> 00:34:21,529 S6: willpower a little bit. And I think the important thing 685 00:34:21,570 --> 00:34:24,650 S6: to remember here is that it is you are battling 686 00:34:24,890 --> 00:34:27,689 S6: a brain that has been rewired and a body that 687 00:34:27,690 --> 00:34:32,770 S6: has been rewired to want this. And so your job 688 00:34:33,650 --> 00:34:36,649 S6: is really to make it as inconvenient as possible. And 689 00:34:36,650 --> 00:34:40,010 S6: so I that's what I challenge women to do, figure 690 00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:42,770 S6: out what your triggers are because there's triggers for it. 691 00:34:42,770 --> 00:34:46,610 S6: So figure out, um, if it's when I'm really emotional 692 00:34:46,610 --> 00:34:48,610 S6: or if it's a certain time of the month or 693 00:34:48,650 --> 00:34:50,689 S6: if it's something that I've read or something that I've 694 00:34:50,690 --> 00:34:54,330 S6: seen and eliminate those and just keep kind of cutting 695 00:34:54,330 --> 00:34:58,370 S6: back until you get into a place where you're not 696 00:34:58,370 --> 00:35:01,370 S6: being as tempted, because that's helpful. And I have a 697 00:35:01,370 --> 00:35:05,089 S6: whole course on that on my, on my site for 698 00:35:05,090 --> 00:35:07,370 S6: anyone who's interested, but a whole course on how to 699 00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:11,010 S6: work through your triggers and to put up appropriate boundaries 700 00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:13,529 S6: to be able to help yourself because it's not your 701 00:35:13,530 --> 00:35:16,850 S6: accountability partner's job to, to fix you or to rescue you. 702 00:35:16,850 --> 00:35:20,330 S6: They're just a tool in the toolkit. Um, and there 703 00:35:20,370 --> 00:35:23,250 S6: are a way to help grace come into the conversation 704 00:35:23,250 --> 00:35:26,210 S6: and to give you perspective, but you can't blame them 705 00:35:26,210 --> 00:35:28,330 S6: for when you make the wrong choice at 3:00 in 706 00:35:28,330 --> 00:35:30,850 S6: the morning. It's not their fault. You're the one clicking 707 00:35:30,850 --> 00:35:33,609 S6: the links. You're the one opening the websites that it's 708 00:35:33,610 --> 00:35:37,969 S6: all on you. And so, um, making that inconvenient and 709 00:35:37,969 --> 00:35:41,089 S6: putting kind of roadblocks in the way, but also just 710 00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:45,970 S6: abiding in Christ like his. He gives us the power 711 00:35:45,969 --> 00:35:48,690 S6: to fight. He gives us his spirit. And we are, 712 00:35:48,730 --> 00:35:50,730 S6: we're called to walk in that. And I think so 713 00:35:50,730 --> 00:35:52,649 S6: many times we try to do this without him and 714 00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:54,650 S6: without other people. We just try to do it all 715 00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:58,410 S6: by ourselves. And you'll get that New Year's resolution thing 716 00:35:58,410 --> 00:36:00,730 S6: every time. You'll just you'll go good and then you'll 717 00:36:00,730 --> 00:36:01,210 S6: burn out. 718 00:36:01,930 --> 00:36:02,210 S5: Yeah. 719 00:36:02,650 --> 00:36:05,530 S1: Oh, wow. Such wise counsel. You know, again, the comfort 720 00:36:05,530 --> 00:36:08,970 S1: to know that in our weakness, his strength is made manifest, 721 00:36:08,969 --> 00:36:12,410 S1: that we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. 722 00:36:12,650 --> 00:36:15,290 S1: And if he knows our struggles, and he most assuredly does, 723 00:36:15,290 --> 00:36:16,770 S1: to be able to say, God, I don't know if 724 00:36:16,770 --> 00:36:19,770 S1: I can take this next step. The ever present God 725 00:36:19,770 --> 00:36:22,209 S1: who said he would never leave or forsake us is there. 726 00:36:22,210 --> 00:36:25,370 S1: Here's that prayer. And in that moment provides, as he 727 00:36:25,370 --> 00:36:29,529 S1: promises in His word that sufficient grace. Why do we 728 00:36:29,570 --> 00:36:32,969 S1: sell God short, over and over and over again? Jessica 729 00:36:33,010 --> 00:36:34,890 S1: used an important word triggers. I want to talk about 730 00:36:34,890 --> 00:36:43,890 S1: that when we get back. We're visiting with Jessica Harris, 731 00:36:43,890 --> 00:36:47,170 S1: who's a writer and an international speaker. She talks openly 732 00:36:47,170 --> 00:36:51,569 S1: and honestly about pornography addiction among Christian women. Why does 733 00:36:51,570 --> 00:36:54,290 S1: she do this? Because she wants you to know that 734 00:36:54,290 --> 00:36:57,009 S1: you can find real forgiveness and healing. And she writes 735 00:36:57,010 --> 00:36:59,529 S1: about it in her book quenched. That goes right back 736 00:36:59,530 --> 00:37:01,890 S1: to John four. I love the way she weaves that 737 00:37:01,890 --> 00:37:05,970 S1: story throughout the subtitle, Discovering God's Abundant Grace for Women 738 00:37:05,969 --> 00:37:10,890 S1: Struggling with Pornography and Sexual Shame. So God designed us 739 00:37:10,890 --> 00:37:14,290 S1: to be loved. That search for significant. That God shaped void. 740 00:37:14,290 --> 00:37:17,250 S1: Over and over and over again. Philosophers, theologians have talked 741 00:37:17,250 --> 00:37:20,330 S1: about the fact that we made in his image really 742 00:37:20,370 --> 00:37:23,810 S1: seek out this love, this affirmation, all of it put there, 743 00:37:23,810 --> 00:37:26,770 S1: fingerprinted by the Creator himself, so that we find our worth, 744 00:37:26,770 --> 00:37:31,210 S1: our value, our significance and unconditional love in him. He 745 00:37:31,210 --> 00:37:33,529 S1: puts those little breadcrumbs that will lead to him. Why? 746 00:37:33,570 --> 00:37:36,930 S1: Because he's not willing that any should perish. So how 747 00:37:36,930 --> 00:37:39,730 S1: much of pornography, particularly what you know about women in 748 00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:42,649 S1: this area of struggle versus men? How much of this 749 00:37:42,650 --> 00:37:47,330 S1: for women is about companionship, loneliness, friendship, feeling valued that 750 00:37:47,330 --> 00:37:51,410 S1: they're there somehow creates this sort of artificial relationship for 751 00:37:51,450 --> 00:37:53,330 S1: a person that even for a short period of time, 752 00:37:53,330 --> 00:37:56,049 S1: you think you have value and worth. Or is it 753 00:37:56,050 --> 00:37:58,930 S1: used rather as a kind of brain drug? If I 754 00:37:58,930 --> 00:38:00,770 S1: can use it that way, that takes you away from 755 00:38:00,770 --> 00:38:02,930 S1: the other things in life that are making you anxious. 756 00:38:02,969 --> 00:38:06,130 S1: I asked this on behalf of the person who doesn't struggle, 757 00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:08,450 S1: but needs to have a heart like his, and more 758 00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:10,570 S1: compassionately understands this issue. 759 00:38:11,250 --> 00:38:13,969 S6: Yeah, that's a great question. It can be both. And 760 00:38:13,969 --> 00:38:17,250 S6: I think that that's up to the the person who's 761 00:38:17,250 --> 00:38:20,650 S6: struggling and I the way you phrase the question, I 762 00:38:20,650 --> 00:38:23,489 S6: just want to put out there too, that a lot 763 00:38:23,489 --> 00:38:25,370 S6: of times we talk about pornography and we say, oh, 764 00:38:25,410 --> 00:38:27,930 S6: men watch it because they're visually wired. And that's the 765 00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:32,090 S6: only reason that men watch porn. Um, but men can 766 00:38:32,090 --> 00:38:35,810 S6: watch it because they're lonely and wanting companionship too. And 767 00:38:35,810 --> 00:38:38,930 S6: so we kind of, we don't associate it as an 768 00:38:38,930 --> 00:38:41,450 S6: emotional thing with men as much, but it definitely can 769 00:38:41,450 --> 00:38:45,089 S6: still be a struggle on an emotional level for men. 770 00:38:45,090 --> 00:38:48,130 S6: And there's several great resources that come at it from 771 00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:50,370 S6: that angle. Um, because I think for so long, we 772 00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:51,690 S6: just kind of said, well, this is what men do 773 00:38:51,690 --> 00:38:54,690 S6: because that's how they are. But, but it's just people 774 00:38:54,730 --> 00:38:57,569 S6: sin because people are broken. And so it doesn't it? 775 00:38:57,610 --> 00:39:00,689 S6: It's not like women's sin because of this and men's 776 00:39:00,690 --> 00:39:03,450 S6: sin because of that. It's we are people and we 777 00:39:03,450 --> 00:39:05,890 S6: are we live in a fallen world. And that will 778 00:39:05,890 --> 00:39:11,890 S6: make us either search for something to fill a void, 779 00:39:11,890 --> 00:39:15,970 S6: or it'll make us run away from things and run 780 00:39:15,969 --> 00:39:18,330 S6: to other things to find some kind of comfort. So 781 00:39:18,890 --> 00:39:23,129 S6: you can see both in in women's stories, you can 782 00:39:23,130 --> 00:39:26,049 S6: see them. I was just looking for love. You can 783 00:39:26,050 --> 00:39:30,410 S6: see that, especially with today's young women who are exploiting themselves, 784 00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:33,810 S6: who are sending images of themselves to to men like, 785 00:39:33,850 --> 00:39:36,689 S6: I just wanted acceptance. I just wanted love. I just 786 00:39:36,690 --> 00:39:40,770 S6: wanted someone to, to love me for who I am. 787 00:39:40,810 --> 00:39:42,450 S6: And this is how he told me I was going 788 00:39:42,489 --> 00:39:44,570 S6: to get it. So you see that. But you also 789 00:39:44,930 --> 00:39:50,170 S6: just see where it becomes this escape, whether that's hardcore pornography, 790 00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:54,330 S6: which is what I struggled with, or erotica or fantasy. It's, 791 00:39:54,610 --> 00:39:58,250 S6: it's a way of just running and, and fleeing. And 792 00:39:58,250 --> 00:40:01,970 S6: so there can be all different things that lead people 793 00:40:02,090 --> 00:40:04,529 S6: to this. There's not a formula, you know, it's not 794 00:40:04,530 --> 00:40:07,090 S6: like every woman who comes from a broken home is, 795 00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:09,810 S6: you know, score one point. And then if she's experienced this, 796 00:40:09,850 --> 00:40:11,810 S6: it's one point, you know, and rate her on a scale. 797 00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:15,049 S6: And this is how likely she is. And we just 798 00:40:15,050 --> 00:40:18,609 S6: we struggle with sin because we're, we are broken and 799 00:40:18,610 --> 00:40:23,089 S6: hurting people. And the devil is so scheming and conniving 800 00:40:23,090 --> 00:40:25,770 S6: that he would take something as beautiful and precious as 801 00:40:25,770 --> 00:40:30,609 S6: our sex drive. That's God given and would find a 802 00:40:30,610 --> 00:40:33,649 S6: way to capitalize on that in a way to lead 803 00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:35,530 S6: us astray with with that. 804 00:40:36,730 --> 00:40:38,850 S1: Jessica, did you ever stop in your quiet moments and 805 00:40:38,850 --> 00:40:41,810 S1: think how upsetting you are to the devil? Because here 806 00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:43,890 S1: you were raised in a Christian home. I mean, it 807 00:40:43,890 --> 00:40:45,890 S1: just makes me smile. What a good God we have. 808 00:40:46,130 --> 00:40:48,569 S1: You're raised in a Christian home, and so he can't 809 00:40:48,570 --> 00:40:50,850 S1: have you for eternity because you have a personal relationship 810 00:40:50,850 --> 00:40:52,850 S1: with Jesus Christ. And your name's been written in the 811 00:40:52,850 --> 00:40:54,970 S1: Lamb's Book of Life. And nothing and no one can 812 00:40:54,969 --> 00:40:56,569 S1: take you out of that Lamb's Book of life. So 813 00:40:56,570 --> 00:40:59,370 S1: he can't have you, but he can cripple you. So 814 00:40:59,370 --> 00:41:01,569 S1: he opens the door to this temptation, knowing. And I 815 00:41:01,570 --> 00:41:04,410 S1: think he's wise enough to know what our Achilles heels are. 816 00:41:04,410 --> 00:41:06,529 S1: And he finds them and he goes after them. And 817 00:41:06,530 --> 00:41:08,569 S1: that's different for every single person. He opens the door 818 00:41:08,570 --> 00:41:10,770 S1: for you. You go down this trap door, you get 819 00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:13,089 S1: snared for a while, but you're set free. And you 820 00:41:13,090 --> 00:41:17,049 S1: must make him mad as where he lives currently. And 821 00:41:17,050 --> 00:41:20,250 S1: I have to tell you, I think it just makes 822 00:41:20,250 --> 00:41:22,690 S1: me smile to think that God rescued you from the 823 00:41:22,690 --> 00:41:27,210 S1: jaws of his pernicious, evil, damaging plan and set you 824 00:41:27,210 --> 00:41:29,650 S1: free so that he would be able to use you 825 00:41:29,770 --> 00:41:32,370 S1: to talk about how. Listen, that woman at the well 826 00:41:32,450 --> 00:41:34,090 S1: drew her water in the middle of the day because 827 00:41:34,090 --> 00:41:36,730 S1: she was ashamed. She didn't want anybody in the village. 828 00:41:36,730 --> 00:41:39,290 S1: They already knew that she was sexually promiscuous, so she 829 00:41:39,290 --> 00:41:41,219 S1: wasn't going to be there. The women were gathering in 830 00:41:41,219 --> 00:41:42,980 S1: the morning when it was cooler, in the evening when 831 00:41:42,980 --> 00:41:44,660 S1: it was cool, she went in the middle of the 832 00:41:44,660 --> 00:41:46,900 S1: day when nobody would find her. Nobody would see her 833 00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:48,779 S1: and she would be left alone in her shame and 834 00:41:48,780 --> 00:41:51,300 S1: guilt and shame. And who meets her at the well. 835 00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:55,339 S1: Takes your breath away. Takes your breath away. Do you 836 00:41:55,340 --> 00:41:56,300 S1: still struggle today? 837 00:41:57,100 --> 00:42:01,220 S6: No, no. Um, I it's been a, it has been 838 00:42:01,260 --> 00:42:04,460 S6: a several years. And I think for the people out 839 00:42:04,460 --> 00:42:07,779 S6: there listening, the journey of freedom takes a long time. 840 00:42:07,780 --> 00:42:11,860 S6: It probably took me two years of intense mentorship and 841 00:42:11,860 --> 00:42:16,219 S6: accountability to finally feel like I could say no. And 842 00:42:16,219 --> 00:42:17,980 S6: that for me was freedom. Like, I feel like I 843 00:42:17,980 --> 00:42:20,340 S6: can actually say no because remember when I was 17, 844 00:42:20,340 --> 00:42:23,180 S6: I felt like I couldn't. So for me to go, wow, 845 00:42:23,219 --> 00:42:25,660 S6: I'm actually, this is not my body on autopilot. This 846 00:42:25,660 --> 00:42:28,020 S6: is me making deliberate and conscious choices. And I'm aware 847 00:42:28,020 --> 00:42:30,259 S6: of that now. And I'm doing this on purpose. Or 848 00:42:30,260 --> 00:42:33,540 S6: I'm able to say, no, that felt like freedom because 849 00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:35,500 S6: then it's like, okay, now I'm back to being the 850 00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:38,859 S6: one who's making the choice. That is freedom, right? When 851 00:42:38,860 --> 00:42:42,740 S6: we're able to make our own choices. So, um, but 852 00:42:42,739 --> 00:42:46,620 S6: even still, I would fall into sin when I didn't 853 00:42:46,620 --> 00:42:49,420 S6: want to anymore. And for me, a lot of my 854 00:42:49,420 --> 00:42:52,739 S6: triggers were more emotional. So when I was really discouraged 855 00:42:52,739 --> 00:42:54,460 S6: about something, it was kind of like a way to 856 00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:58,819 S6: medicate in a way and to not feel so discouraged. Um, 857 00:42:58,860 --> 00:43:01,459 S6: but it has been several years now since I've even 858 00:43:01,460 --> 00:43:05,219 S6: felt the temptation really to, to even want to look 859 00:43:05,260 --> 00:43:08,219 S6: at it like it's not interesting to me anymore. And yes, 860 00:43:08,219 --> 00:43:11,299 S6: I got married, but I don't think that that's, I 861 00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:14,380 S6: don't think that that's why, like, I feel like, um, 862 00:43:14,739 --> 00:43:16,980 S6: there's a deeper healing that happened. And it's not just 863 00:43:16,980 --> 00:43:18,140 S6: marriage that that made it. 864 00:43:18,180 --> 00:43:18,580 S5: Yes. 865 00:43:18,940 --> 00:43:22,380 S1: Exactly. I have 30s to the person who doesn't struggle 866 00:43:22,380 --> 00:43:24,500 S1: in this area. What's the most important thing you want 867 00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:26,140 S1: them to know about this problem? 868 00:43:26,660 --> 00:43:30,819 S6: Oh my goodness. Frame the conversation in grace, please. Like 869 00:43:30,860 --> 00:43:34,060 S6: they're not sick, twisted people. We are broken, hurting people, 870 00:43:34,060 --> 00:43:36,379 S6: and we all need Jesus and we all need that 871 00:43:36,460 --> 00:43:38,540 S6: grace and that hope and that freedom. 872 00:43:39,580 --> 00:43:42,140 S1: Could not have ended. On a more marvelous note, Jessica. 873 00:43:42,140 --> 00:43:44,540 S1: Thank you. Thank you again. I'm going to end exactly 874 00:43:44,540 --> 00:43:47,900 S1: how I started. What a brave, courageous and obedient woman 875 00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:51,180 S1: you are. Thank you for telling your story to countless 876 00:43:51,180 --> 00:43:54,860 S1: numbers of women who, like you, thought they were all alone. 877 00:43:54,860 --> 00:43:57,580 S1: Nobody else struggled in this area, and the enemy had 878 00:43:57,580 --> 00:43:59,660 S1: captured them to the point where they thought, I am 879 00:43:59,660 --> 00:44:03,580 S1: beyond his forgiveness. No, you are not. Jessica reminds you 880 00:44:03,580 --> 00:44:07,020 S1: of that on a regular basis. Please, if you are struggling, 881 00:44:07,020 --> 00:44:11,660 S1: I recommend strongly the book quenched. Listen to Jessica, listen 882 00:44:11,660 --> 00:44:14,100 S1: to what she discovered, and sit next to that woman 883 00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:16,300 S1: at the well and see what she discovered as well. 884 00:44:16,460 --> 00:44:19,980 S1: The book is called Quenched Discovering God's Abundant Grace for 885 00:44:19,980 --> 00:44:26,340 S1: women struggling with Pornography and Sexual Shame. The gospel changes everything. 886 00:44:26,380 --> 00:44:28,620 S1: My thanks to Jessica and you, friends. We'll see you 887 00:44:28,620 --> 00:44:29,220 S1: next time.