WEBVTT - Pain That Is Wrapped in Shame – Part 1 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.640 Today on Bold Steps with Mark Jobe, we're discussing the 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:05.519 driving force of pain. 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:08.399 There are some of you here in this auditorium that 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:10.959 you have been running for a long time, but yet 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:12.639 some of you are here today, and it's the very 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.480 pain in your life that's accompanied with shame that has 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.680 actually pushed you to God. So whether you have been 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.040 running from God or whether you are being pushed to God, 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.840 I believe that pain is a driving force. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.760 Welcome to Bold Steps with pastor Mark Jobe, president of 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.479 Moody Bible Institute and senior pastor of New Life Community 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.880 Church in Chicago. I'm Wayne Shepherd. Well, today we're continuing 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.040 a series called seen getting into the unique ways that 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.160 God sees and engages with our pain. Pain is a 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.080 universal struggle, though it always feels uniquely personal, doesn't it? Sometimes, 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.320 private Mark, we're going to discuss how sometimes the areas 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.520 of hurt in our lives are made even worse because 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.120 they're they're wrapped in shame. 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.160 Yeah. You know, pain is an interesting thing. Uh, Wayne, 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.520 I do believe that it drives us. You know, when 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.399 you're in pain, you you want to escape that pain. 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:16.679 You can think of nothing else. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.640 And it drives many people to God. It drives some 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.119 people away from God. But there's a pain that is 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:28.480 wrapped in shame. Shame because of bad decisions. Shame because of. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.080 I think of, um, a woman I recently spoke to 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.360 that had had an abortion and she was going through 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.720 her own pain, but it was also wrapped in shame 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.440 because of the decision and really struggling with how to 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:45.160 process that. This woman in this story is a woman 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.520 that's in pain, but she is afraid of what people 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.120 think of her as well. So it's a unique type 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.520 of pain that Jesus steps into. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.960 Let's get into the Bible now with Mark Jobe on 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.690 bold steps with today's lesson pain that's wrapped in shame. 0:02:03.090 --> 0:02:08.810 I still remember the conversation. I was helping to start 0:02:08.810 --> 0:02:13.609 a new church location up on the north side. We 0:02:13.610 --> 0:02:16.410 were so excited about the new people that were coming. 0:02:17.690 --> 0:02:22.090 And this was after a Sunday morning service in the cafe. 0:02:22.370 --> 0:02:24.890 I was talking to a lot of people and this 0:02:24.889 --> 0:02:29.489 woman was waiting a few steps back. I could tell 0:02:29.490 --> 0:02:34.650 she was nervous. She seemed a little bit awkward when 0:02:34.650 --> 0:02:41.210 she approached me. She said, pastor. And then she looked down. 0:02:42.530 --> 0:02:48.570 Her lip was quivering. She seemed uncomfortable to talk to 0:02:48.570 --> 0:02:54.889 me and she said, pastor, I have a question for 0:02:54.889 --> 0:02:58.450 you that I would like to ask. And I said, sure. 0:02:59.970 --> 0:03:03.530 And she said, I want to know if I can 0:03:03.530 --> 0:03:07.610 come to this church. I said, why wouldn't you be 0:03:07.650 --> 0:03:11.170 able to come to this church? And she says, well, 0:03:11.169 --> 0:03:15.850 you see, I've been battling Aids for a long time. 0:03:17.490 --> 0:03:24.649 I could feel the shame. I could feel the the guilt, 0:03:25.010 --> 0:03:33.730 the condemnation. As she nervously looked up at me. Immediately 0:03:33.730 --> 0:03:35.770 I just sensed the Spirit of God say she needs 0:03:35.770 --> 0:03:38.050 a hug. So I hugged her and said, absolutely, we're 0:03:38.050 --> 0:03:44.170 so glad you're here. I could almost feel the shame lifted. 0:03:44.930 --> 0:03:49.770 I could almost feel the difference there. You see, she 0:03:49.770 --> 0:03:53.610 had pain because she was struggling with this debilitating disease. 0:03:53.610 --> 0:03:56.130 And this was years ago when Aids was first just 0:03:56.130 --> 0:03:59.890 coming out, a big thing. She was struggling with the 0:03:59.890 --> 0:04:05.140 battle for survival. At the same time, she was struggling 0:04:05.140 --> 0:04:11.780 with the shame in which her pain was wrapped up. Today, 0:04:11.780 --> 0:04:13.220 that's what I want to talk to you about. I 0:04:13.220 --> 0:04:18.339 want to talk to you about pain that's wrapped in shame. 0:04:19.020 --> 0:04:22.620 Some of you are here today, and you're actually at 0:04:22.620 --> 0:04:26.260 a crossroads. Because pain can do two things to us. 0:04:26.260 --> 0:04:30.660 It can either draw us to God or it can 0:04:30.660 --> 0:04:34.700 push us away from God. There are some of you 0:04:34.740 --> 0:04:37.340 here in this auditorium that you have been running for 0:04:37.339 --> 0:04:41.900 a long time, because you have pain that is accompanied 0:04:41.900 --> 0:04:45.500 with shame and guilt, and it has caused you to 0:04:45.540 --> 0:04:49.380 run as hard and as fast as you can away 0:04:49.380 --> 0:04:52.420 from God. But yet some of you are here today, 0:04:52.420 --> 0:04:55.260 and it's the very pain in your life that's accompanied 0:04:55.260 --> 0:04:59.460 with shame that has actually pushed you to God. So 0:04:59.460 --> 0:05:02.620 whether you have been running from God or whether you 0:05:02.620 --> 0:05:09.140 are being pushed to God. I believe that pain is 0:05:09.140 --> 0:05:12.620 a driving force, and I want to take your attention 0:05:12.620 --> 0:05:17.659 and turn. Turn your attention to Mark chapter five. There's 0:05:17.660 --> 0:05:19.859 a story in the Bible that's found in three of 0:05:19.860 --> 0:05:25.740 the Gospels Mark chapter five. Matthew chapter nine, and Luke 0:05:25.740 --> 0:05:29.380 chapter eight. We don't know the name of the woman 0:05:29.380 --> 0:05:32.820 that's introduced in this passage, but we know that it's 0:05:32.820 --> 0:05:36.540 a woman that, well, she's struggling with pain for a 0:05:36.540 --> 0:05:41.140 long time. And we know from this passage that shame, guilt, 0:05:41.140 --> 0:05:46.820 condemnation is wrapped up in her pain. Now, as the 0:05:46.820 --> 0:05:52.580 writer Mark is telling us this story, he actually is 0:05:52.580 --> 0:05:57.460 sandwiching two stories in one. It's a story within a story. 0:05:58.300 --> 0:06:01.270 And so I'm going to begin reading in verse 21, 0:06:02.350 --> 0:06:05.870 it says, When Jesus had again crossed over by boat 0:06:05.870 --> 0:06:09.150 to the other side of the lake, a large crowd 0:06:09.350 --> 0:06:13.350 gathered around him while he was by the lake. By 0:06:13.350 --> 0:06:19.390 this time, the reputation of Jesus had become pretty well known. 0:06:20.270 --> 0:06:24.510 He had cast out a demon from a wild man 0:06:24.510 --> 0:06:28.910 that was living in a cemetery. He had healed people already. 0:06:28.950 --> 0:06:33.990 Rumors were spreading that he was well. He was this 0:06:34.790 --> 0:06:39.550 potential Messiah, possibly the king, that would liberate the Jewish 0:06:39.550 --> 0:06:44.830 people from the Roman oppressors. Some talked about the way 0:06:44.830 --> 0:06:47.310 he spoke that where he could read the minds of 0:06:47.310 --> 0:06:51.790 people and see their hearts. Uh, people gathered from all over. 0:06:51.830 --> 0:06:56.909 Some were curiosity seekers, some were people ready to worship him, 0:06:56.910 --> 0:07:01.109 and some were trying to find something That he was 0:07:01.110 --> 0:07:05.830 saying to accuse him. But the Bible tells us that 0:07:05.830 --> 0:07:08.510 a large crowd gathered around him as he crossed over 0:07:08.510 --> 0:07:13.470 the lake. Then one of the synagogue rulers named Jarius 0:07:14.390 --> 0:07:18.670 came there. Seeing Jesus, he fell at his feet. And 0:07:18.670 --> 0:07:24.590 he pleaded earnestly with Jesus. My little daughter is dying. 0:07:24.630 --> 0:07:28.230 Please come and put your hands on her so that 0:07:28.230 --> 0:07:32.790 she will be healed and live. So Jesus went with him. 0:07:34.070 --> 0:07:36.670 So you have the story. The crowds are gathered around 0:07:36.910 --> 0:07:40.030 this desperate father who has a dying girl. A little 0:07:40.030 --> 0:07:44.550 girl pleads with Jesus, Jesus, my daughter's dying. Would you 0:07:44.550 --> 0:07:47.790 rapidly come? She's going to die if you don't heal her. 0:07:47.870 --> 0:07:50.830 So Jesus starts to walk. The crowd is pressed around. 0:07:50.870 --> 0:07:54.990 People are reaching for him, bumping against him. There, Luke 0:07:55.030 --> 0:07:58.190 tells us that the crowd was crushing him. In other words, 0:07:58.430 --> 0:08:02.480 this was a very intense crowd. Everybody trying to do something. 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.920 And as he's walking, we're introduced to a second story, 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:12.920 verse 24. So Jesus went with him. A large crowd 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.600 followed and pressed around him. Luke says they were crushing 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.880 in on him. And here we introduce a second character. 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.040 A woman was there who had been subject to bleeding 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.080 for 12 years. She had suffered a great deal under 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.960 the care of many doctors and had spent all that 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.439 she had. Yet instead of getting better, she grew worse. 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:42.200 When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.959 in the crowd and touched his cloak because she thought, 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:52.640 if I just touch his clothes, I will be healed. 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:58.880 So I want to talk to you about what pain 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.320 and shame Do in our life and how they can 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.000 drive us either towards or away from Jesus. The first 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.960 thing that I want you to write down is this. 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:14.280 Our pain often is the driving force that leads us 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:20.760 to Jesus. Now, we don't know the name of this woman. Uh, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:27.120 some non-biblical literature, uh, has referred to her as Veronica, 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.000 but we don't know if that was her name. What 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:34.200 we do know about this woman is that she was 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:39.439 a woman that was in pain. Uh, she had multiple 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:48.360 things happening in her life. She was more than likely lonely, isolated, impoverished, 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:57.480 quite likely anemic. And possibly some scholars believe on maybe 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.689 even dying. In other words, close to death. Why do 0:10:01.690 --> 0:10:05.650 we know this? And what was her condition? Well, she 0:10:05.650 --> 0:10:08.970 was in physical pain. It tells us she had had 0:10:09.010 --> 0:10:12.770 bleeding for 12 years. 12 years is a long time. 0:10:13.610 --> 0:10:18.770 Internal hemorrhaging. That would not stop. She had been bleeding 0:10:18.809 --> 0:10:28.690 4380 days. Now, we don't know exactly how severe this 0:10:28.690 --> 0:10:32.890 anemia was, but it was severe enough. This bleeding was 0:10:32.890 --> 0:10:37.410 severe enough that it had caused her to seek doctors 0:10:37.770 --> 0:10:41.449 and gone everywhere she could to try to find healing 0:10:41.450 --> 0:10:46.010 for this debilitating disease. And if you've ever struggled with 0:10:46.010 --> 0:10:48.210 any kind of hemorrhaging, you know that it will quickly 0:10:48.210 --> 0:10:50.810 lead to anemia. And when you're anemic, you can barely 0:10:50.809 --> 0:10:52.930 get out of bed, you can barely function. You can 0:10:52.929 --> 0:10:56.170 barely work because you are just drained of the life 0:10:56.410 --> 0:11:00.850 giving substance, which is our blood. Secondly, we know that 0:11:00.850 --> 0:11:04.809 she was financially depleted. She had spent all that she had. 0:11:04.809 --> 0:11:07.729 The Bible tells us, in trying to solve this problem 0:11:07.730 --> 0:11:12.170 in her life, trying to deal with the issue of pain. 0:11:12.370 --> 0:11:15.810 She had gone to one doctor after another. Oh, some 0:11:15.809 --> 0:11:18.490 of you have been there. You tried this, doctor, do 0:11:18.490 --> 0:11:21.730 you have a solution? Oh. Try this. All this medication, 0:11:21.730 --> 0:11:24.570 it doesn't work. She had gone to another doctor. It 0:11:24.570 --> 0:11:28.850 seemed expensive, but anything that could solve her problem, she 0:11:28.850 --> 0:11:31.890 felt would be worth it. And so she spent money 0:11:31.890 --> 0:11:35.050 on this doctor and another doctor and another one. Her 0:11:35.050 --> 0:11:37.690 hopes had gone up. And another one until she found 0:11:37.690 --> 0:11:45.730 herself economically absolutely bankrupt and depleted. She was socially alienated. 0:11:46.850 --> 0:11:50.610 You see, in the Jewish culture, if you had any 0:11:50.610 --> 0:11:56.689 kind of bleeding or hemorrhaging, you would be deemed ceremonially unclean, 0:11:57.450 --> 0:12:01.340 which meant that when you were unclean, It meant that 0:12:01.740 --> 0:12:05.700 anybody that touched you would also be unclean. It meant 0:12:05.740 --> 0:12:08.940 anything that you set on would be unclean. If she 0:12:08.980 --> 0:12:11.340 sat on a couch, it would be unclean. If she 0:12:11.380 --> 0:12:13.699 sat on a bed, it would be unclean. If she 0:12:13.700 --> 0:12:16.660 touched someone, they would be unclean. And so they would 0:12:16.660 --> 0:12:20.980 have to go through a ceremonial washing and cleansing to 0:12:21.020 --> 0:12:25.020 be clean. So that meant that I don't know if 0:12:25.020 --> 0:12:26.660 she had kids or if she had a husband, if 0:12:26.660 --> 0:12:29.100 she had relatives that mean that when she ran into 0:12:29.140 --> 0:12:32.100 a friend or a relative, they would say, hi, how 0:12:32.140 --> 0:12:34.860 are you? Yeah, I can't touch you because you're unclean. 0:12:37.660 --> 0:12:42.740 It also meant that she was spiritually isolated because if 0:12:42.740 --> 0:12:47.179 you were ceremonially unclean, you would not be allowed to 0:12:47.340 --> 0:12:50.700 enter into the synagogue or go for worship with other 0:12:50.700 --> 0:13:01.500 people because you were unclean, physically hurting, spiritually isolated, Financially depleted, 0:13:02.140 --> 0:13:06.780 and you can only imagine that she was emotionally exhausted. 0:13:07.460 --> 0:13:16.620 12 years. An ongoing problem that she couldn't solve. Lonely, isolated. Depleted. 0:13:16.900 --> 0:13:24.460 Alienated and full of shame. Anybody around her that she 0:13:24.460 --> 0:13:31.140 touched would be unclean. A stigma about her. You know, 0:13:32.740 --> 0:13:34.140 pain drives us. 0:13:40.220 --> 0:13:43.140 You're listening to Bold Steps. The Bible teaching of Mark 0:13:43.140 --> 0:13:46.339 Jobe will continue this lesson in just a moment. If 0:13:46.340 --> 0:13:48.620 you haven't been to our website yet, we really encourage 0:13:48.620 --> 0:13:51.979 you to visit and see all the faith building resources, opportunities, 0:13:51.980 --> 0:13:54.980 and sermon series we have available. Just go to Bold 0:13:54.980 --> 0:13:57.420 steps.org and be sure to catch up on any message 0:13:57.420 --> 0:13:59.900 you might have missed on the radio. You can even 0:13:59.950 --> 0:14:02.870 have these daily lessons downloaded automatically to your phone or 0:14:02.870 --> 0:14:06.510 mobile device by subscribing to the Bold Steps podcast. Open 0:14:06.510 --> 0:14:09.790 up your favorite podcast app and search for bold steps 0:14:09.790 --> 0:14:12.670 with doctor Mark Jobe. And if you'd like to get 0:14:12.670 --> 0:14:14.670 even more connected with us, and perhaps tell us a 0:14:14.670 --> 0:14:17.510 little about your testimony and maybe how Bold Steps has 0:14:17.510 --> 0:14:19.670 played a part in your spiritual growth, we'd love to 0:14:19.670 --> 0:14:22.390 hear from you. You can send us a message online 0:14:22.390 --> 0:14:24.750 at Bold Steps. Org or give us a call and 0:14:24.750 --> 0:14:31.190 leave your message on a recorded line by dialing (312) 329-2011. 0:14:31.390 --> 0:14:37.910 That's 312329 2011. Now let's continue. Our lesson. Here again 0:14:37.910 --> 0:14:38.950 is Mark Jobe. 0:14:43.630 --> 0:14:47.870 I grew up around horses. And when I was only 0:14:47.870 --> 0:14:50.830 four years old, my father put me on the first horse. 0:14:52.390 --> 0:14:56.070 And what you learn about horses is that they'll move 0:14:56.070 --> 0:15:00.520 faster if you kind of just kick them slightly right 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.040 here under their ribs, because it's more of a painful 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:11.680 area and pain causes us to move quicker. I believe 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.720 that pain causes us to move quicker away from God 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.080 or towards God. There are some people here in this 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:23.880 auditorium that, well, you have pain. There are people here 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.920 that have been sexually or emotionally abused. And it's painful. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.200 And maybe it's shrouded in shame. There are people here 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.680 that you have been through, experiences in life. Maybe it 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:40.120 was a very difficult, nasty divorce that's left you just depleted. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.560 Just broken. You're ashamed of that chapter in your life. 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.720 Maybe there's a battle of addiction that has caused you 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.480 to just compulsively have to go down that road of addiction. 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:55.320 Maybe you have a prison term in your background that 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.560 has been symbolizing of a dark chapter in your life. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.920 Maybe there's been bankruptcy in your life that it really 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.920 is a is a chapter that you'd rather not talk about. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.440 Maybe you've made decisions in your life that you look 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.960 back right now and just say, I hope no one 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.760 finds out about those decisions, because not only is there pain, 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:19.840 but there's also shame associated with it. In fact, some 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:21.760 of you are in this auditorium right now. You don't 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.120 look like it because you don't wear it on your face. 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:30.400 You don't carry a sign that says, this is my pain. 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:35.480 You camouflage it, you cover it up. You've learned over 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.640 the years to work around it, to talk around it, 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.960 to sort of block it out of your chapter in 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.680 life so that you can use words that sort of 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:52.560 deflect people. But inside, inside. Yeah. It's a lonely place. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.280 It's a place of hurt. It's a place of shame. 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.200 It's a place that drives you. And anytime there's pain, 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.480 we are driven towards relief and in our relief. Sometimes 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.000 we overeat. We overindulge. Some of us have tried to 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.439 camouflage that pain or deal with that pain by, um, 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.600 you you have tried. You have gone down the road 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.880 of workaholism to try to forget about the pain. Some 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.080 of you have tried to drink the pain away. Some 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.200 of you have tried to smoke the pain away. Some 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.560 of you have tried to sex the pain away. Some 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.160 of you have tried to, uh, achieve the pain away. 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.960 Some of you have tried to, uh, just have fun. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.719 The fun, the pain away. You've tried a lot of 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.240 ways to get away from that pain, but you know 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:46.240 it's still there. The Bible tells us in verse 27 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:52.920 when she heard about Jesus. If you're taking notes, write 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:57.840 this down. Faith is birthed by hearing and fueled by 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:05.130 our thinking. When she heard about Jesus. She came up 0:18:05.130 --> 0:18:12.090 behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak because 0:18:12.090 --> 0:18:17.890 she thought, if I just touch his clothes, I will 0:18:17.890 --> 0:18:25.690 be healed. There's something about the name of Jesus. When 0:18:25.690 --> 0:18:32.850 she heard about Jesus. She never met Jesus. She didn't 0:18:32.850 --> 0:18:36.290 know Jesus. She'd never seen Jesus, but she heard about him. 0:18:37.770 --> 0:18:40.409 There's something about Jesus that when you hear about him. 0:18:43.690 --> 0:18:49.370 It bursts. Something inside of you. The hope, the healer, 0:18:49.970 --> 0:18:57.930 the Savior. When you hear about Jesus, there's something you're 0:18:57.930 --> 0:19:02.700 wired spiritually to react and respond to the name of 0:19:02.700 --> 0:19:08.859 Jesus you created by your Divine Creator to have a 0:19:08.900 --> 0:19:13.739 longing for relationship with him. You don't always know it. 0:19:13.740 --> 0:19:16.740 You can't explain it. But there's something inside every single 0:19:16.740 --> 0:19:20.100 one of us that desires a relationship with our creator. 0:19:20.220 --> 0:19:23.620 And when she heard about Jesus, something was awakened inside 0:19:23.619 --> 0:19:25.859 of her. In fact, I believe that there's some people 0:19:25.859 --> 0:19:29.379 here in this auditorium today that you can't even believe 0:19:29.420 --> 0:19:31.220 you're in a church today. You're like, what am I 0:19:31.220 --> 0:19:33.020 doing in a church today? And this is kind of 0:19:33.060 --> 0:19:36.420 crazy that me in a church, people are waving their 0:19:36.420 --> 0:19:38.260 hands like that. I'm like, this is so weird. I 0:19:38.260 --> 0:19:40.100 don't even know what I'm doing. What am I doing 0:19:40.100 --> 0:19:41.980 in a church? Some of you have wanted to run, 0:19:41.980 --> 0:19:45.140 but you know why you're here? Because you've heard about Jesus. 0:19:51.020 --> 0:19:53.460 You don't know what it is, but there's something about 0:19:53.460 --> 0:19:56.300 the longing in your heart that desires to connect with 0:19:56.300 --> 0:20:00.139 the divine, that desires to connect with that which has 0:20:00.140 --> 0:20:04.580 made you and you're you're you're afraid, but yet you're drawn. 0:20:04.619 --> 0:20:08.020 You want it, but yet you're you're not sure exactly 0:20:08.020 --> 0:20:14.060 what it is. When she heard about Jesus. It motivated her. 0:20:14.580 --> 0:20:18.940 And in her mind, she started to think, maybe if 0:20:18.940 --> 0:20:21.859 I just reach out and touch the hem of his garment, 0:20:21.900 --> 0:20:26.020 maybe if I just touch him, then maybe I will 0:20:26.020 --> 0:20:29.580 be healed. Maybe he's the solution that I've been wanting, 0:20:29.619 --> 0:20:35.340 asking for, praying for, longing for in my life. In 0:20:35.340 --> 0:20:38.300 Matthew chapter nine, verse 21, when it tells this story, 0:20:39.140 --> 0:20:43.540 it uses the verbiage that she repeated to herself. So 0:20:43.540 --> 0:20:47.100 she kept repeating to herself, how many of you talk 0:20:47.100 --> 0:20:51.580 to yourself? Some of you are saying it's the only 0:20:51.580 --> 0:20:56.500 intelligent conversation I've had just talking to myself. Come on, 0:20:56.500 --> 0:20:59.980 you can admit it. Your spouse says, were you talking 0:20:59.980 --> 0:21:04.699 to me? No, I'm just talking to myself. And sometimes 0:21:04.700 --> 0:21:07.540 we have this conversation with ourselves. And in her mind, 0:21:07.580 --> 0:21:10.540 she was saying, if I just touch Jesus, faith has 0:21:10.540 --> 0:21:13.780 been birthed in her. Faith that was undeveloped. Faith that 0:21:13.780 --> 0:21:17.780 was not really theologically grounded, but faith that had risen 0:21:17.780 --> 0:21:21.060 within her. This dream of if I just touch him, 0:21:21.060 --> 0:21:24.260 maybe I believe maybe he is the Messiah. Maybe he's 0:21:24.260 --> 0:21:27.420 the one who he says he is. And so she 0:21:27.420 --> 0:21:29.659 thought to herself, if I can just touch it now, 0:21:29.660 --> 0:21:32.140 it doesn't tell us in Mark, but in Luke and 0:21:32.140 --> 0:21:35.740 in Matthew it tells us that she reached out and 0:21:35.740 --> 0:21:39.060 she touched the tassels on his garment. 0:21:45.859 --> 0:21:48.660 And we'll learn more about the significance of those tassels 0:21:48.700 --> 0:21:52.060 next time you're listening to Bold Steps with Mark Jobe. 0:21:52.260 --> 0:21:55.180 Today's message about pain that is wrapped in shame is 0:21:55.180 --> 0:21:58.139 part of Mark's current series called seen. And remember, if 0:21:58.180 --> 0:22:00.150 you ever miss one of these daily messages. You can 0:22:00.150 --> 0:22:03.950 always find them online at Bold Steps. Org Mark, let's 0:22:03.950 --> 0:22:06.109 take a moment to talk about our bold step gift 0:22:06.109 --> 0:22:09.550 the six conversations. Now you are a college president. I 0:22:09.550 --> 0:22:11.830 think it's appropriate that we have a guest who know 0:22:11.830 --> 0:22:12.910 something about that. 0:22:12.910 --> 0:22:17.270 Absolutely. I take my hat off to all college professors, 0:22:17.590 --> 0:22:22.310 and our guest today is actually a professor at Penn State. 0:22:22.710 --> 0:22:26.230 You know, as a college professor, she has a unique 0:22:26.230 --> 0:22:30.790 perspective on how younger generations engage in conversations. And so 0:22:31.190 --> 0:22:34.950 doctor Heather Holloman is our guest. And welcome, Heather. 0:22:35.070 --> 0:22:35.869 Thank you. 0:22:36.030 --> 0:22:40.550 Heather. Speaking generationally, you see that, uh, young people, college 0:22:40.550 --> 0:22:45.150 students maybe interact a little bit different than previous generations. 0:22:45.150 --> 0:22:47.189 And so let me ask you, what changes have you 0:22:47.230 --> 0:22:50.750 noticed and how does your book, the Six Conversations address 0:22:50.750 --> 0:22:51.990 those challenges? 0:22:52.550 --> 0:22:55.670 Well, because there's such a reliance on their phone for 0:22:55.670 --> 0:22:59.630 texting and just the communication through social media, my students 0:22:59.630 --> 0:23:03.630 have really lost the ability to engage in meaningful conversation 0:23:03.630 --> 0:23:06.590 face to face. Most, most. What I'm seeing is they're 0:23:06.590 --> 0:23:09.590 not really good at asking those first questions and then 0:23:09.590 --> 0:23:12.590 follow up questions. They've sort of lost that art of 0:23:12.590 --> 0:23:15.830 interpersonal curiosity, and I tell them it's their number one 0:23:15.830 --> 0:23:19.389 professional development skill to thrive in the workplace, to become 0:23:19.390 --> 0:23:21.510 a curious person about other people. 0:23:21.869 --> 0:23:22.990 You know, that's so true. 0:23:23.030 --> 0:23:23.430 Yeah. 0:23:23.590 --> 0:23:26.670 When when people are looking down at their smartphones and 0:23:26.670 --> 0:23:30.150 just engaging via social media, I've noticed a lot more 0:23:30.150 --> 0:23:33.030 awkwardness in just having natural conversations. 0:23:33.030 --> 0:23:35.590 So, Heather, can this book help us as parents relate 0:23:35.590 --> 0:23:36.750 to our young people? 0:23:37.390 --> 0:23:41.109 Yes, immediately. In fact, I give readers six ways to 0:23:41.150 --> 0:23:44.990 be naturally curious about people in their life and not be, 0:23:45.030 --> 0:23:47.830 and learn how to ask really good questions of especially 0:23:47.830 --> 0:23:50.869 young people. And so once you ask that first question 0:23:50.910 --> 0:23:52.709 in any of the categories of what it means to 0:23:52.710 --> 0:23:54.870 be human, parents will know how to ask a really 0:23:54.869 --> 0:23:57.510 good follow up question. And with young people, they love 0:23:57.510 --> 0:24:00.480 the social category. They love to talk about their friends. 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.240 They also love to talk in the physical category. New things. 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:06.600 They're listening to new foods. They're trying, new things they've 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:08.720 done with their rooms, things like that. 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.000 Hey, I love that. So if you are a parent 0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:13.280 or a grandparent and you're saying, I really want to 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.480 connect with my teenager or my college student and get 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:21.159 involved in some spiritually more deep conversations, but they seem 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:24.480 to shut down very quickly. This book may be a 0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:26.120 great resource for you. 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:27.959 And we want to send you a copy of the 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:30.960 six conversations. When you make a donation of any amount 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:34.920 to support bold steps, just call us at 800 Moody. 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:41.960 That's (800) 356-6639 or give online at Bold steps.org or send 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:44.920 your gift through the mail. Send your check to Bold steps. 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:50.760 820 North LaSalle Boulevard, Chicago, Illinois 606 ten. Just be 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:52.480 sure to tell us you want a copy of the 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:56.240 six conversations when you write, and you can easily step 0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:58.640 up from being just a listener of bold steps and 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:01.520 actually become part of the team today by signing up 0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:03.800 as a bold partner in supporting the ministry on a 0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:07.240 monthly basis. When you give a monthly gift of $30 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:10.360 or more, you'll also receive a number of personal benefits, 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:14.879 including discounts on moody publisher items, special content from Mark 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:17.680 and more. And becoming a bold partner is quick and 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:21.600 easy when you go to bold steps. One final note 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:23.560 we'd love to hear from you and get you connected 0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:27.000 with our growing online community on our social media pages. 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.560 You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and even TikTok. 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:33.359 Just log in, search for Bold Steps Radio and be 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:36.160 sure to subscribe or follow when you get to our page. 0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:39.200 That's all our time today. I'm Wayne Shepherd and we'll 0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:42.040 see you tomorrow for part two of Mark's message titled 0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:45.679 pain that is Wrapped in Shame. That's coming up Tuesday 0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:50.040 here on Bold Steps with Mark John. Bold steps is 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:53.960 a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.