S1: Today on Bold Steps with Mark Jobe, we're discussing the
S1: driving force of pain.
S2: There are some of you here in this auditorium that
S2: you have been running for a long time, but yet
S2: some of you are here today, and it's the very
S2: pain in your life that's accompanied with shame that has
S2: actually pushed you to God. So whether you have been
S2: running from God or whether you are being pushed to God,
S2: I believe that pain is a driving force.
S1: Welcome to Bold Steps with pastor Mark Jobe, president of
S1: Moody Bible Institute and senior pastor of New Life Community
S1: Church in Chicago. I'm Wayne Shepherd. Well, today we're continuing
S1: a series called seen getting into the unique ways that
S1: God sees and engages with our pain. Pain is a
S1: universal struggle, though it always feels uniquely personal, doesn't it? Sometimes,
S1: private Mark, we're going to discuss how sometimes the areas
S1: of hurt in our lives are made even worse because
S1: they're they're wrapped in shame.
S2: Yeah. You know, pain is an interesting thing. Uh, Wayne,
S2: I do believe that it drives us. You know, when
S2: you're in pain, you you want to escape that pain.
S1: You can think of nothing else.
S2: And it drives many people to God. It drives some
S2: people away from God. But there's a pain that is
S2: wrapped in shame. Shame because of bad decisions. Shame because of.
S2: I think of, um, a woman I recently spoke to
S2: that had had an abortion and she was going through
S2: her own pain, but it was also wrapped in shame
S2: because of the decision and really struggling with how to
S2: process that. This woman in this story is a woman
S2: that's in pain, but she is afraid of what people
S2: think of her as well. So it's a unique type
S2: of pain that Jesus steps into.
S1: Let's get into the Bible now with Mark Jobe on
S1: bold steps with today's lesson pain that's wrapped in shame.
S2: I still remember the conversation. I was helping to start
S2: a new church location up on the north side. We
S2: were so excited about the new people that were coming.
S2: And this was after a Sunday morning service in the cafe.
S2: I was talking to a lot of people and this
S2: woman was waiting a few steps back. I could tell
S2: she was nervous. She seemed a little bit awkward when
S2: she approached me. She said, pastor. And then she looked down.
S2: Her lip was quivering. She seemed uncomfortable to talk to
S2: me and she said, pastor, I have a question for
S2: you that I would like to ask. And I said, sure.
S2: And she said, I want to know if I can
S2: come to this church. I said, why wouldn't you be
S2: able to come to this church? And she says, well,
S2: you see, I've been battling Aids for a long time.
S2: I could feel the shame. I could feel the the guilt,
S2: the condemnation. As she nervously looked up at me. Immediately
S2: I just sensed the Spirit of God say she needs
S2: a hug. So I hugged her and said, absolutely, we're
S2: so glad you're here. I could almost feel the shame lifted.
S2: I could almost feel the difference there. You see, she
S2: had pain because she was struggling with this debilitating disease.
S2: And this was years ago when Aids was first just
S2: coming out, a big thing. She was struggling with the
S2: battle for survival. At the same time, she was struggling
S2: with the shame in which her pain was wrapped up. Today,
S2: that's what I want to talk to you about. I
S2: want to talk to you about pain that's wrapped in shame.
S2: Some of you are here today, and you're actually at
S2: a crossroads. Because pain can do two things to us.
S2: It can either draw us to God or it can
S2: push us away from God. There are some of you
S2: here in this auditorium that you have been running for
S2: a long time, because you have pain that is accompanied
S2: with shame and guilt, and it has caused you to
S2: run as hard and as fast as you can away
S2: from God. But yet some of you are here today,
S2: and it's the very pain in your life that's accompanied
S2: with shame that has actually pushed you to God. So
S2: whether you have been running from God or whether you
S2: are being pushed to God. I believe that pain is
S2: a driving force, and I want to take your attention
S2: and turn. Turn your attention to Mark chapter five. There's
S2: a story in the Bible that's found in three of
S2: the Gospels Mark chapter five. Matthew chapter nine, and Luke
S2: chapter eight. We don't know the name of the woman
S2: that's introduced in this passage, but we know that it's
S2: a woman that, well, she's struggling with pain for a
S2: long time. And we know from this passage that shame, guilt,
S2: condemnation is wrapped up in her pain. Now, as the
S2: writer Mark is telling us this story, he actually is
S2: sandwiching two stories in one. It's a story within a story.
S2: And so I'm going to begin reading in verse 21,
S2: it says, When Jesus had again crossed over by boat
S2: to the other side of the lake, a large crowd
S2: gathered around him while he was by the lake. By
S2: this time, the reputation of Jesus had become pretty well known.
S2: He had cast out a demon from a wild man
S2: that was living in a cemetery. He had healed people already.
S2: Rumors were spreading that he was well. He was this
S2: potential Messiah, possibly the king, that would liberate the Jewish
S2: people from the Roman oppressors. Some talked about the way
S2: he spoke that where he could read the minds of
S2: people and see their hearts. Uh, people gathered from all over.
S2: Some were curiosity seekers, some were people ready to worship him,
S2: and some were trying to find something That he was
S2: saying to accuse him. But the Bible tells us that
S2: a large crowd gathered around him as he crossed over
S2: the lake. Then one of the synagogue rulers named Jarius
S2: came there. Seeing Jesus, he fell at his feet. And
S2: he pleaded earnestly with Jesus. My little daughter is dying.
S2: Please come and put your hands on her so that
S2: she will be healed and live. So Jesus went with him.
S2: So you have the story. The crowds are gathered around
S2: this desperate father who has a dying girl. A little
S2: girl pleads with Jesus, Jesus, my daughter's dying. Would you
S2: rapidly come? She's going to die if you don't heal her.
S2: So Jesus starts to walk. The crowd is pressed around.
S2: People are reaching for him, bumping against him. There, Luke
S2: tells us that the crowd was crushing him. In other words,
S2: this was a very intense crowd. Everybody trying to do something.
S2: And as he's walking, we're introduced to a second story,
S2: verse 24. So Jesus went with him. A large crowd
S2: followed and pressed around him. Luke says they were crushing
S2: in on him. And here we introduce a second character.
S2: A woman was there who had been subject to bleeding
S2: for 12 years. She had suffered a great deal under
S2: the care of many doctors and had spent all that
S2: she had. Yet instead of getting better, she grew worse.
S2: When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him
S2: in the crowd and touched his cloak because she thought,
S2: if I just touch his clothes, I will be healed.
S2: So I want to talk to you about what pain
S2: and shame Do in our life and how they can
S2: drive us either towards or away from Jesus. The first
S2: thing that I want you to write down is this.
S2: Our pain often is the driving force that leads us
S2: to Jesus. Now, we don't know the name of this woman. Uh,
S2: some non-biblical literature, uh, has referred to her as Veronica,
S2: but we don't know if that was her name. What
S2: we do know about this woman is that she was
S2: a woman that was in pain. Uh, she had multiple
S2: things happening in her life. She was more than likely lonely, isolated, impoverished,
S2: quite likely anemic. And possibly some scholars believe on maybe
S2: even dying. In other words, close to death. Why do
S2: we know this? And what was her condition? Well, she
S2: was in physical pain. It tells us she had had
S2: bleeding for 12 years. 12 years is a long time.
S2: Internal hemorrhaging. That would not stop. She had been bleeding
S2: 4380 days. Now, we don't know exactly how severe this
S2: anemia was, but it was severe enough. This bleeding was
S2: severe enough that it had caused her to seek doctors
S2: and gone everywhere she could to try to find healing
S2: for this debilitating disease. And if you've ever struggled with
S2: any kind of hemorrhaging, you know that it will quickly
S2: lead to anemia. And when you're anemic, you can barely
S2: get out of bed, you can barely function. You can
S2: barely work because you are just drained of the life
S2: giving substance, which is our blood. Secondly, we know that
S2: she was financially depleted. She had spent all that she had.
S2: The Bible tells us, in trying to solve this problem
S2: in her life, trying to deal with the issue of pain.
S2: She had gone to one doctor after another. Oh, some
S2: of you have been there. You tried this, doctor, do
S2: you have a solution? Oh. Try this. All this medication,
S2: it doesn't work. She had gone to another doctor. It
S2: seemed expensive, but anything that could solve her problem, she
S2: felt would be worth it. And so she spent money
S2: on this doctor and another doctor and another one. Her
S2: hopes had gone up. And another one until she found
S2: herself economically absolutely bankrupt and depleted. She was socially alienated.
S2: You see, in the Jewish culture, if you had any
S2: kind of bleeding or hemorrhaging, you would be deemed ceremonially unclean,
S2: which meant that when you were unclean, It meant that
S2: anybody that touched you would also be unclean. It meant
S2: anything that you set on would be unclean. If she
S2: sat on a couch, it would be unclean. If she
S2: sat on a bed, it would be unclean. If she
S2: touched someone, they would be unclean. And so they would
S2: have to go through a ceremonial washing and cleansing to
S2: be clean. So that meant that I don't know if
S2: she had kids or if she had a husband, if
S2: she had relatives that mean that when she ran into
S2: a friend or a relative, they would say, hi, how
S2: are you? Yeah, I can't touch you because you're unclean.
S2: It also meant that she was spiritually isolated because if
S2: you were ceremonially unclean, you would not be allowed to
S2: enter into the synagogue or go for worship with other
S2: people because you were unclean, physically hurting, spiritually isolated, Financially depleted,
S2: and you can only imagine that she was emotionally exhausted.
S2: 12 years. An ongoing problem that she couldn't solve. Lonely, isolated. Depleted.
S2: Alienated and full of shame. Anybody around her that she
S2: touched would be unclean. A stigma about her. You know,
S2: pain drives us.
S1: You're listening to Bold Steps. The Bible teaching of Mark
S1: Jobe will continue this lesson in just a moment. If
S1: you haven't been to our website yet, we really encourage
S1: you to visit and see all the faith building resources, opportunities,
S1: and sermon series we have available. Just go to Bold
S1: steps.org and be sure to catch up on any message
S1: you might have missed on the radio. You can even
S1: have these daily lessons downloaded automatically to your phone or
S1: mobile device by subscribing to the Bold Steps podcast. Open
S1: up your favorite podcast app and search for bold steps
S1: with doctor Mark Jobe. And if you'd like to get
S1: even more connected with us, and perhaps tell us a
S1: little about your testimony and maybe how Bold Steps has
S1: played a part in your spiritual growth, we'd love to
S1: hear from you. You can send us a message online
S1: at Bold Steps. Org or give us a call and
S1: leave your message on a recorded line by dialing (312) 329-2011.
S1: That's 312329 2011. Now let's continue. Our lesson. Here again
S1: is Mark Jobe.
S2: I grew up around horses. And when I was only
S2: four years old, my father put me on the first horse.
S2: And what you learn about horses is that they'll move
S2: faster if you kind of just kick them slightly right
S2: here under their ribs, because it's more of a painful
S2: area and pain causes us to move quicker. I believe
S2: that pain causes us to move quicker away from God
S2: or towards God. There are some people here in this
S2: auditorium that, well, you have pain. There are people here
S2: that have been sexually or emotionally abused. And it's painful.
S2: And maybe it's shrouded in shame. There are people here
S2: that you have been through, experiences in life. Maybe it
S2: was a very difficult, nasty divorce that's left you just depleted.
S2: Just broken. You're ashamed of that chapter in your life.
S2: Maybe there's a battle of addiction that has caused you
S2: to just compulsively have to go down that road of addiction.
S2: Maybe you have a prison term in your background that
S2: has been symbolizing of a dark chapter in your life.
S2: Maybe there's been bankruptcy in your life that it really
S2: is a is a chapter that you'd rather not talk about.
S2: Maybe you've made decisions in your life that you look
S2: back right now and just say, I hope no one
S2: finds out about those decisions, because not only is there pain,
S2: but there's also shame associated with it. In fact, some
S2: of you are in this auditorium right now. You don't
S2: look like it because you don't wear it on your face.
S2: You don't carry a sign that says, this is my pain.
S2: You camouflage it, you cover it up. You've learned over
S2: the years to work around it, to talk around it,
S2: to sort of block it out of your chapter in
S2: life so that you can use words that sort of
S2: deflect people. But inside, inside. Yeah. It's a lonely place.
S2: It's a place of hurt. It's a place of shame.
S2: It's a place that drives you. And anytime there's pain,
S2: we are driven towards relief and in our relief. Sometimes
S2: we overeat. We overindulge. Some of us have tried to
S2: camouflage that pain or deal with that pain by, um,
S2: you you have tried. You have gone down the road
S2: of workaholism to try to forget about the pain. Some
S2: of you have tried to drink the pain away. Some
S2: of you have tried to smoke the pain away. Some
S2: of you have tried to sex the pain away. Some
S2: of you have tried to, uh, achieve the pain away.
S2: Some of you have tried to, uh, just have fun.
S2: The fun, the pain away. You've tried a lot of
S2: ways to get away from that pain, but you know
S2: it's still there. The Bible tells us in verse 27
S2: when she heard about Jesus. If you're taking notes, write
S2: this down. Faith is birthed by hearing and fueled by
S2: our thinking. When she heard about Jesus. She came up
S2: behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak because
S2: she thought, if I just touch his clothes, I will
S2: be healed. There's something about the name of Jesus. When
S2: she heard about Jesus. She never met Jesus. She didn't
S2: know Jesus. She'd never seen Jesus, but she heard about him.
S2: There's something about Jesus that when you hear about him.
S2: It bursts. Something inside of you. The hope, the healer,
S2: the Savior. When you hear about Jesus, there's something you're
S2: wired spiritually to react and respond to the name of
S2: Jesus you created by your Divine Creator to have a
S2: longing for relationship with him. You don't always know it.
S2: You can't explain it. But there's something inside every single
S2: one of us that desires a relationship with our creator.
S2: And when she heard about Jesus, something was awakened inside
S2: of her. In fact, I believe that there's some people
S2: here in this auditorium today that you can't even believe
S2: you're in a church today. You're like, what am I
S2: doing in a church today? And this is kind of
S2: crazy that me in a church, people are waving their
S2: hands like that. I'm like, this is so weird. I
S2: don't even know what I'm doing. What am I doing
S2: in a church? Some of you have wanted to run,
S2: but you know why you're here? Because you've heard about Jesus.
S2: You don't know what it is, but there's something about
S2: the longing in your heart that desires to connect with
S2: the divine, that desires to connect with that which has
S2: made you and you're you're you're afraid, but yet you're drawn.
S2: You want it, but yet you're you're not sure exactly
S2: what it is. When she heard about Jesus. It motivated her.
S2: And in her mind, she started to think, maybe if
S2: I just reach out and touch the hem of his garment,
S2: maybe if I just touch him, then maybe I will
S2: be healed. Maybe he's the solution that I've been wanting,
S2: asking for, praying for, longing for in my life. In
S2: Matthew chapter nine, verse 21, when it tells this story,
S2: it uses the verbiage that she repeated to herself. So
S2: she kept repeating to herself, how many of you talk
S2: to yourself? Some of you are saying it's the only
S2: intelligent conversation I've had just talking to myself. Come on,
S2: you can admit it. Your spouse says, were you talking
S2: to me? No, I'm just talking to myself. And sometimes
S2: we have this conversation with ourselves. And in her mind,
S2: she was saying, if I just touch Jesus, faith has
S2: been birthed in her. Faith that was undeveloped. Faith that
S2: was not really theologically grounded, but faith that had risen
S2: within her. This dream of if I just touch him,
S2: maybe I believe maybe he is the Messiah. Maybe he's
S2: the one who he says he is. And so she
S2: thought to herself, if I can just touch it now,
S2: it doesn't tell us in Mark, but in Luke and
S2: in Matthew it tells us that she reached out and
S2: she touched the tassels on his garment.
S1: And we'll learn more about the significance of those tassels
S1: next time you're listening to Bold Steps with Mark Jobe.
S1: Today's message about pain that is wrapped in shame is
S1: part of Mark's current series called seen. And remember, if
S1: you ever miss one of these daily messages. You can
S1: always find them online at Bold Steps. Org Mark, let's
S1: take a moment to talk about our bold step gift
S1: the six conversations. Now you are a college president. I
S1: think it's appropriate that we have a guest who know
S1: something about that.
S2: Absolutely. I take my hat off to all college professors,
S2: and our guest today is actually a professor at Penn State.
S2: You know, as a college professor, she has a unique
S2: perspective on how younger generations engage in conversations. And so
S2: doctor Heather Holloman is our guest. And welcome, Heather.
S3: Thank you.
S2: Heather. Speaking generationally, you see that, uh, young people, college
S2: students maybe interact a little bit different than previous generations.
S2: And so let me ask you, what changes have you
S2: noticed and how does your book, the Six Conversations address
S2: those challenges?
S3: Well, because there's such a reliance on their phone for
S3: texting and just the communication through social media, my students
S3: have really lost the ability to engage in meaningful conversation
S3: face to face. Most, most. What I'm seeing is they're
S3: not really good at asking those first questions and then
S3: follow up questions. They've sort of lost that art of
S3: interpersonal curiosity, and I tell them it's their number one
S3: professional development skill to thrive in the workplace, to become
S3: a curious person about other people.
S2: You know, that's so true.
S1: Yeah.
S2: When when people are looking down at their smartphones and
S2: just engaging via social media, I've noticed a lot more
S2: awkwardness in just having natural conversations.
S1: So, Heather, can this book help us as parents relate
S1: to our young people?
S3: Yes, immediately. In fact, I give readers six ways to
S3: be naturally curious about people in their life and not be,
S3: and learn how to ask really good questions of especially
S3: young people. And so once you ask that first question
S3: in any of the categories of what it means to
S3: be human, parents will know how to ask a really
S3: good follow up question. And with young people, they love
S3: the social category. They love to talk about their friends.
S3: They also love to talk in the physical category. New things.
S3: They're listening to new foods. They're trying, new things they've
S3: done with their rooms, things like that.
S2: Hey, I love that. So if you are a parent
S2: or a grandparent and you're saying, I really want to
S2: connect with my teenager or my college student and get
S2: involved in some spiritually more deep conversations, but they seem
S2: to shut down very quickly. This book may be a
S2: great resource for you.
S1: And we want to send you a copy of the
S1: six conversations. When you make a donation of any amount
S1: to support bold steps, just call us at 800 Moody.
S1: That's (800) 356-6639 or give online at Bold steps.org or send
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S1: That's all our time today. I'm Wayne Shepherd and we'll
S1: see you tomorrow for part two of Mark's message titled
S1: pain that is Wrapped in Shame. That's coming up Tuesday
S1: here on Bold Steps with Mark John. Bold steps is
S1: a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.