S1: God often visits in disrupts our very ordinary lives. He
S1: comes among the most ordinary people.
S2: Christmas songs and Christmas carols are all around us, and
S2: I think it's a it's a wonderful way to introduce
S2: the gospel in a non-threatening way to the world.
S3: I think we need to help those growing up in
S3: this culture today to understand there's a whole different issue
S3: at Christmas. And and Santa is not God.
S4: Those who keep the law, God says, I'll walk with
S4: you and be your God, and you'll be my people.
S4: It's what the cross was about. It was what the
S4: incarnation was about. So Emmanuel is what it is all about.
S5: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S5: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. And
S5: Merry Christmas. Thank you for joining us for a great
S5: celebration of what happened in Bethlehem 2000 years ago.
S6: Peace on earth. Goodwill to men is straight ahead. And
S6: no matter what's going on in this season of your life,
S6: there is rest. There is peace, there is joy because
S6: of the lengths to which God went to show his
S6: love to us.
S5: We're going back in the archives of several years of
S5: Christmas programs to present a cavalcade of guests.
S6: Hey, that's a good word. And here's another a cornucopia
S6: of Christmas guests and topics. And of course, we have
S6: a featured resource for you.
S5: David and Barbara Lehman wrote a book we talked about
S5: a few years ago titled Hosanna in Excelsis Hymns and
S5: Devotions for the Christmas Season. You can find out more
S5: about that at our website. Building relationships us. Just go
S5: to building relationships with us.
S6: Before we hear from the Lehmans, we want to start
S6: with a bit of conversation Gary had with author and
S6: speaker Dan Darling. This is from 2019. They were talking
S6: about a little book called The Characters of Christmas. I
S6: think this will set the tone of our program today,
S6: as Dan talks about the ordinary, everyday people who were
S6: living their little lives in the middle of something extraordinary
S6: that was happening in their sleepy little town.
S5: Here's Dan Darling talking about what motivated him to study
S5: the characters of Christmas.
S1: You know, I've always loved, loved Christmas ever since I
S1: was just a little kid. All the traditions that we
S1: had and growing up in the church, I loved. When
S1: December comes around, I still do, uh, uh, just kind
S1: of how our hearts are turned toward, uh, the baby
S1: and the manger, the festivity, the lights, but most importantly,
S1: that we have an opportunity to focus on the story
S1: of God visiting us in Jesus, uh, God coming among
S1: the ordinary. And I've always been intrigued by all the
S1: ordinary people who are swept up in this story of Christmas. Uh,
S1: those people around our nativity sets, those people, uh, that
S1: we dress up to be like, uh, in our pageants, uh,
S1: and what their lives must have been like, uh, in
S1: that first Christmas.
S7: Why do you think that through the years in our country, uh,
S7: Christmas seems to have become more and more commercial, more
S7: and more secular? Uh, rather than focusing on the sentiment
S7: of Christ's birth?
S1: You know, it's interesting. I think, uh, there's a couple
S1: reactions to Christmas that we can have. I mean, one
S1: is to be rightly sort of, uh, you know, one
S1: wrong reaction is to get caught up in the, the
S1: all the everything around Christmas instead of the actual story.
S1: I think there is a way to sort of celebrate
S1: it without actually focusing on the good news of Jesus coming.
S1: I think the other way is to kind of go
S1: the opposite. And sometimes Christians can be cranky. You know,
S1: I find myself sometimes having to fight that, like we're
S1: so much against that that we're we're sort of the
S1: cranky people. And I think at the heart of it
S1: is joy is of God coming to earth in the
S1: form of a baby. Because of that, we can celebrate.
S1: Because of that, we can give gifts and we can
S1: we can celebrate if our King has come to renew
S1: and restore the world, but also to renew in store,
S1: restore our hearts, and we should rejoice.
S7: You know, the whole thing of gift giving, of course,
S7: is a big thing at Christmas in our culture. Uh, kids,
S7: look forward to the gifts they're going to get. Even
S7: adults look forward to the gifts they're going to get. Uh,
S7: and sometimes I hear Christians say, well, you know, it's
S7: just become a gift giving thing. And we we don't
S7: really concentrate on Christ, but but we're not against gift giving, right?
S7: I mean, that's one of the five love languages gift giving.
S8: Yes.
S1: I'm not going to be against gift giving when I'm
S1: talking to the author of The Love Languages. Um, but
S1: I do think I think you're right. I think there's
S1: a way that it gets out of hand. And I
S1: think in our families, we have to be the ones
S1: that are keeping our kids from making that everything. What
S1: am I getting and how come I'm not getting this? Uh,
S1: in focusing us on this, our kids on the story
S1: at hand. At the other hand, you know, being cranky
S1: about it. I mean, if Jesus has come and if
S1: this story is true and he is the king and
S1: he has come to save us from our sins, it's
S1: time for celebration. It's time for feasts and for gift
S1: giving to each other. I mean, all through the Bible
S1: we see this, right? That that God compelled his people
S1: to celebrate with gift giving and with with celebration. So
S1: we shouldn't swing the pendulum back so far that we're
S1: we're sort of like these, you know, utilitarian, cranky people
S1: that no one wants to be around on Christmas.
S7: Yeah. So we're giving if we just communicate clearly, you know,
S7: we give gifts to each other celebrating what God did
S7: for us, the great gift he gave us. Tying that
S7: together is important, I think, in a Christian home. Right.
S1: I think it is. And I think it's incumbent on
S1: parents to set the tone. And I think one of
S1: the ways we can do that is having regular times
S1: where we go through the Christmas story, celebrating advent every
S1: day or whatever our rhythms are, and allowing our kids
S1: to to really meditate on on the story in a
S1: way that's fun and a way that helps them interact with, uh, Christmas.
S1: Christmas is like a multifaceted diamond. There's so many wonderful
S1: spiritual truths that emanate from this story that there's so
S1: much that we can easily, uh, take several weeks before
S1: Christmas and get our hearts ready.
S7: Yeah. So what you do in this book is you're
S7: really digging into the lives of the people who were there, uh,
S7: that first Christmas. Uh, not just Christ, you know, born
S7: in Bethlehem, but the people surrounding all of that. Uh,
S7: which which I think is a fascinating approach to explore
S7: the broader picture of what was happening at Christmas.
S1: Yeah. I mean, when we think about Christmas 2000 years later,
S1: all these people are larger than life, their characters and
S1: our Christmas pageants and their around our nativity sets. But
S1: we have to remember that that first Christmas, these were
S1: ordinary people. They didn't know this was coming. There was
S1: not big neon signs saying, you know, 25 days till Christmas, uh,
S1: for the shepherds and the wisemen and the innkeeper and
S1: Mary and Joseph even, I mean, so it tells us,
S1: I think, that God often visits in disrupts our very
S1: ordinary lives. He comes among the most ordinary people. And
S1: this tells us a little bit something about the kingdom
S1: of God, who is the kingdom of God, made up
S1: of its, made up of the ordinary, the forgotten, those
S1: who are humble enough to receive Jesus.
S5: We hope you're enjoying this special Christmas edition of Building
S5: Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman. He's the author of the
S5: New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Find out
S5: more by going to Building Relationships with us. Our featured
S5: resource today is a book by David and Barbara Lehman
S5: titled Hosanna in Excelsis Hymns and Devotions for the Christmas
S5: Season that's building relationships.
S6: Us David and Barbara Lehman are both graduates of Biola
S6: University School of Music, David's retired director of music and worship,
S6: and Barbara has taught music at a private Christian school
S6: in Dallas, Texas. They joined Gary two years ago, and
S6: Barbara talked about why singing together is so important.
S2: I speak to y'all young moms, first grade moms every
S2: year teaching them why singing is important and why music
S2: is important. I said, well, the first thing I think
S2: is because it's important to God. Take your take your
S2: Bible and open it to the middle, and you will
S2: find the largest book of the Bible there called the Psalms.
S2: It's basically a hymn book right in the middle of
S2: the Bible. And these were written to be sung. They're
S2: not it's not just poetry. There's psalms to be sung
S2: in praise to God. So God has given us this huge, um,
S2: amount of poetry and beauty to praise him with. So
S2: that's why it's important. Number one. Number two. I tell
S2: them that it's important that we sing because we are
S2: redeemed people. We have a song to sing. The very
S2: first hymn recorded in the Bible is in the book
S2: of Exodus, after the crossing of the Red sea. And
S2: the people had left their enemies behind and they were rejoicing.
S2: And the first thing they did was saying, I will
S2: sing unto the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously, the
S2: horse and rider thrown into the sea. The Lord is
S2: my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation.
S2: That is our song. We are redeemed people. So it's
S2: important that we sing, and it's important that we sing
S2: together because it creates a solidarity. The family becomes united,
S2: the generations become united. The hymns we have chosen are
S2: cross denominational. So the denominations become united in one voice
S2: of praising God for our redemption.
S7: David. Many churches have moved away from traditional hymns and
S7: they sing more contemporary songs. Uh, what are we missing
S7: by not singing the hymns that people have been singing
S7: for hundreds of years?
S3: If you think of, uh, our song canon in churches,
S3: what we generally sing, uh, as, like a photograph, uh,
S3: book of, uh, history of your family, uh, by not
S3: singing the hymns. It's as if we've pulled out all
S3: the pictures of Grandma and grandpa, or great grandma and
S3: great grandpa and said, we only want to see the
S3: people that are alive today. There's nothing wrong with seeing
S3: the people that are alive today or singing or singing
S3: contemporary songs. But shouldn't we look at what the legacy
S3: was left for us by people who wrote these hymns hundreds,
S3: even thousands of years ago that have are so good.
S3: They're so such quality that we still sing them today.
S3: They've passed that test of time. So while we think that, uh,
S3: we can sing all kinds of hymns and psalms and
S3: hymns and spiritual songs, according to the Apostle Paul, we
S3: wonder if we've left off too many of the ones
S3: that really nurture us and fetus, both on the Christian
S3: wisdom that, uh, people like Charles Wesley, Isaac Watts and
S3: others bring to us. But, uh, we, we really give, uh,
S3: only what's contemporary, the priority. And there's again, nothing wrong
S3: with the contemporary. We're not against that. We're just saying,
S3: don't throw out that which has stood and served us
S3: and still teaches us today.
S2: One of my favorite carols in the book is probably
S2: the oldest text that we have in the book. It
S2: comes from the fifth century, and it's, uh, Carol number
S2: eight of the Father's Love begotten. The two name is
S2: divine Mysterium, divine mystery, and it makes the incarnation and
S2: the birth of Christ so mystical and so beautiful. Uh,
S2: and I love it because it basically it originates in
S2: John one, in the beginning was the word, and the
S2: word was with God, and the word was God. He
S2: was in the beginning with God. All things were made
S2: through him, and without him was not anything made that
S2: was made. In him was life, and the life was
S2: the light of men. The light shines in the darkness,
S2: and the darkness is not overcome it. And then verse 14,
S2: and the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and
S2: we have seen his glory, glory as of the only
S2: son from the father, full of grace and truth. Those
S2: words aren't are mysterious when you read them in a way.
S2: And the carol, I think, underscores that of the father's
S2: love begotten heir the world's began to be. He is
S2: Alpha and Omega, he the source, the ending, he of
S2: the things that are and have been. And that future
S2: years shall see evermore and evermore. It's put out plainsong
S2: chant from the 12th century that is so well paired
S2: with the words. And then the second verse has a
S2: phrase in it talking about, uh, that Mary has by
S2: the Holy Ghost conceiving, bore the Savior of our race.
S2: And the babe, the world's redeemer first revealed his sacred face.
S2: When I first thought that to the children that I
S2: was teaching, it just grabbed me in a way that suddenly,
S2: in the manger, we had all of human history. We had,
S2: from the promises and the prophets and the history of Israel.
S2: Suddenly the promise was here, and there was his face
S2: right before them. And that just explodes my imagination. When
S2: I think of Simeon in the temple, 400 years of silence.
S2: He was aware of that since they had heard from
S2: the prophets. And yet he held in his arms and
S2: wanted to behold that sacred face. And what a blessed
S2: story that is in our Christmas chapel that we did
S2: every year at my school. This was held a very
S2: special place. This particular song and the children that read
S2: that scripture before it from John one, were usually a
S2: first grader and a second grader, and these children would
S2: read that it was at service of lessons of carols
S2: that we put together for our Christmas program. And after
S2: they would read that and we would sing that carol,
S2: it was just a very moving and stunning moment in
S2: our in our chapel. Yeah.
S7: You know, Barbara, you divided this collection into three sections.
S7: Tell us what they are and why you divide them
S7: this way.
S2: Well, the Christmas season has three portions to it. And
S2: I think in America today we think about Christmas Day.
S2: And that's Christmas is one day of the year. But
S2: in the Christian year, it begins four Sundays before Christmas
S2: with advent. Advent is a word that means waiting or coming.
S2: And we're celebrating the waiting or the coming not only
S2: of Christmas that year, but we're remembering the long wait
S2: that Israel had waiting for their Redeemer. And I think
S2: it's important that we remember that. And we teach our
S2: children that and that. I have a little a poem again,
S2: back to my teaching days advent, Christmas, epiphany, Lent and Easter. Alleluia.
S2: And a Pentecost event. Christian year, Christian year. Celebrate the
S2: seasons of the Christian year as our children learned that
S2: every year it helped them. I felt like it helped
S2: introduce the gospel story through the life of Christ to children.
S2: I did not grow up in a liturgical church that
S2: celebrated the different seasons of the Christian year, but I
S2: found that I grew to love them as an adult.
S2: What I understood the better what I understand, the coming
S2: of Christ and waiting and lighting the advent calendars that
S2: brings great meaning and anticipation to something besides opening up
S2: presents on Christmas morning. And then, of course, Christmas is
S2: our second section and we call it in our book.
S2: We call it the Nativity. Thus, all the songs in
S2: that section starts before Christmas, but they're all songs of
S2: the angels and the tivity the story of the birth.
S2: And then after Christmas Day begins the season of epiphany.
S2: I think this one is probably the least known of
S2: the three that the three sections or the three seasons
S2: of the Christmas year to us. And yet to me,
S2: it's wonderful because epiphany is about the story of the
S2: three wisemen coming. They follow the light. Light is a
S2: sign of epiphany. Epiphany is a word that means I
S2: get it. I finally understand it's an epiphany to me.
S2: The light bulb goes on and the light bulb that
S2: goes on that is so amazing is that Jesus did
S2: not just come to the Jewish people, the Israelites. He
S2: came for all of us. We are the ones who
S2: we Gentiles are the ones who were afar off and
S2: brought near. So I think epiphany is totally appropriate for
S2: us to celebrate after Christmas. Because if the part of
S2: the Christmas story where we come in, that includes us,
S2: and I love teaching that to the children every year
S2: as we go through those, the various carols, I wanted
S2: to make, note to it that we have a section
S2: that describes each of those in our book, Advent Activity
S2: at Epiphany, but we also placed poetry, Old English poetry
S2: that we found by Robert Herrick, uh, before the advent.
S2: What sweeter music can we bring then a carol for
S2: it to sing? The next two sections that John Milton
S2: poem on Christmas morning. We took selections from that to
S2: help just add beauty to the book, describing the more
S2: beautiful way those three seasons of Christmas.
S7: Yeah. You know, I'm guessing, Barbara, that a lot of
S7: us who did not grow up in liturgical churches really
S7: have never really sensed the depth of what you just
S7: walked us through, you know, advent, Nativity, epiphany. And that's
S7: why I think this book is going to be kind
S7: of a fresh light on the whole Christmas season for
S7: for many Christians who did not grow up in liturgical,
S7: you know, services. So, you know, to me, I think
S7: you're giving a great service just in those three things,
S7: you know, and focusing on those three things.
S2: So thank you.
S7: David. We usually use the term Christmas carols, but you're
S7: calling them Christian hymns. What's the difference?
S3: Well they're really synonymous, but with a distinction. A carol
S3: is not necessarily a sacred song. Uh, the people would
S3: call Jingle Bells A Christmas Carol. Uh, maybe as Christians,
S3: we we wouldn't. But to the world, that's what's seen.
S3: And generally the word carol defines something that's a little
S3: bit light hearted. Uh, and you can dance to it
S3: has that sense. But, uh, these songs in the, in
S3: the book could be called carols, but we call them
S3: hymns because hymns are always a sacred text, a text
S3: about a deity. And so that's what they are to us.
S3: But again, uh, they're both.
S7: Yeah. Okay. So we have a choice. We can sing
S7: Christmas hymns, a Christmas carols. I like that distinction because
S7: I think you're exactly right. Barbara, give us another carol
S7: and give us the story again.
S2: This is a carol by association. I love by association.
S2: It's called Once in Royal David's City. It was written
S2: by an Irish woman, Cecil Alexander, who started writing poetry
S2: very young and continued. Her right. And she decided to
S2: do a set of poems to teach children the meaning
S2: of each of the phrases of the Apostle's Creed. And
S2: she wrote once in Royal David's City for the for
S2: the part of the creed that says, born of a virgin,
S2: and laid in a manger, born of the Virgin Mary.
S2: And so it begins with telling that that sweet, simple story.
S2: Another word about her that I just wanted to say
S2: is that I want us to remember that these people
S2: who wrote these were they were they were poets. They
S2: were learned people. And of this particular author, one time
S2: she wrote a poem called The Burial of Moses, and
S2: it caused Alfred, Lord Tennyson, to say that it was
S2: one of the few poems by another author that he
S2: wished he himself had written. And I tell that story
S2: just to say it elevates who we're reading, and the
S2: worth of why it is important for us to pay
S2: attention to these kind of old, dusty poems. Maybe that
S2: we haven't thought about it a long time. Again, this
S2: song is used in the Lessons and Carols service that
S2: King's College does. And, uh, each year it begins the service.
S2: And several years ago, at the um, encouragement of one
S2: of our parent school parents and board members, his name
S2: is Stephen Nelson, and I don't know if any of
S2: you are familiar with Stephen, but he's a concert pianist
S2: who used to be part of the duo Nelson and Young.
S2: And he suggested to me why don't we do a
S2: service of lessons and carols? And then he proceeded to
S2: help us each year, put this together. And also he
S2: I just want you to know that that the piano
S2: recording we have of all these carols is Stephen Nelson playing.
S2: So you can sing as a family, being accompanied by
S2: a concert pianist, if you care to, to do that. Anyway,
S2: at the beginning of the service we have the service
S2: starts with my great privilege every year was to choose
S2: the child that would learn the first verse and would
S2: sing it acapella unaccompanied to begin the service. And the
S2: most poignant point of that service to me was after
S2: a beautiful prelude, the church is quiet, probably a thousand
S2: 1200 people sitting in silence, and they're all waiting for
S2: one thing. They're waiting to hear that small voice from
S2: the back of the room, begin acapella and walk down
S2: the aisle singing this one simple, beautiful verse together, alone.
S2: And then we join on the second verse. The whole congregation.
S2: To me, that was a more moving than any Christmas
S2: pageant that you could ever could ever put on, because
S2: it was a group of people and parents and students
S2: and children joining together and singing that wonderful story and
S2: waiting for that moment when the when the story was told.
S2: Once in a while, David City stood a lonely manger shed.
S2: And then it goes on to talk about Jesus as
S2: our childhood pattern. And our eyes at last shall see him.
S2: It takes us on to heaven. All of the stories there.
UU: Jesus. Fraser. Trotwood. Barton de Boyd. My gosh, he grew.
UU: He was little. Weak and helpless. Tears. Girls like us.
UU: He knew. For. A sadness. Addition. You know la gladness.
UU: And our eyes are glad. Shall see. Through his. Redeeming love.
UU: For the child so dear. And Chantal is. To. Two children.
UU: He is gone.
S9: Ah! Do you hear the hope.
S6: In those last words? And he leads his children on
S6: to the place where he has gone. The birth of
S6: Jesus led to his victory over death and his gift
S6: to us of eternal life in him.
S5: This is building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S5: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. On
S5: our Christmas special edition of the program, we're hearing some
S5: moments from past programs, and in this segment, we'll hear
S5: from David and Barbara Lehman.
S6: They put together our featured resource, Hosanna in Excelsis Hymns
S6: and Devotions for the Christmas Season. You can find out
S6: more at building relationships.us. That's building relationships.us.
S7: Barbara, in this last segment, you gave us a visual
S7: picture of a student. A young student might be first
S7: grader singing acapella, the first stanza of this song. So
S7: we got this picture in our minds. Now we're seated
S7: there with these 1200 people. Read that stanza again and
S7: let us all experience the truth about which this child
S7: is singing happily.
S2: Once in Royal David's city stood a lowly cattle shed,
S2: where a mother laid her baby in a manger for
S2: his bed. Mary was that mother mild. Jesus Christ, her
S2: little child.
S7: Well, I think all of us can feel that, you know,
S7: we could, we can. We can see that child singing
S7: it and we can see what the child is singing about.
S7: So I did that because I want our listeners to
S7: get a feel for what this devotional book can really
S7: do for them individually as well as for for the family. So, David,
S7: give us another Carol and the story.
S3: Let me talk about one that, when it was written
S3: in the 1800s, would never have been sung in church.
S3: And the reason is it would have been considered much,
S3: much too frivolous, too happy. And, uh, they were somber and, uh,
S3: severe in their celebration of worship. And yet it was, uh,
S3: probably used because the people loved it so much. But
S3: no one claimed the authorship. It's totally, uh, anonymous because
S3: they didn't want to be censored by the church. Do
S3: you have any guess as to what, uh, that Carol is?
S3: It's God rest you merry, gentlemen.
S10: Oh.
S8: Yes.
S3: So we don't know exactly when it was written. Uh,
S3: a precise date. Uh, and obviously, who wrote it? But
S3: somewhere in the 1800s. And it, uh, brought joy to people. Uh,
S3: Charles Dickens employed the song in A Christmas Carol, but
S3: it was way too much joy for Scrooge. He rejected
S3: it at all and proclaimed, but we think it's a
S3: wonderful song. It's a little bit more horizontal in direction
S3: than vertical toward God. It's really to encourage one another. Uh,
S3: God rest you, you see. And don't let anything dismay you. Remember, Christ,
S3: our Savior was born on Christmas Day to save us
S3: from Satan's power when we had gone astray. And then
S3: it always ends with this short refrain. Oh, tidings of
S3: comfort and joy. Two pillars that the the songwriter said
S3: we need in our lives. And oh boy, is it
S3: not true today. Comfort and joy. Well. And so it's
S3: a great, uh, song to take. Uh, we always try
S3: to do some caroling in our neighborhood. I play the accordion,
S3: and I strap it on and grab another few Christian
S3: families and walk up and down our street singing songs
S3: like God Rest Your Merry Gentlemen and others that are
S3: familiar because we think it's a wonderful way to share
S3: Christ at Christmas with our neighbors. Yeah.
S7: Well, I hope Covid will not keep you from doing
S7: that this year. You know, maybe I can stand six
S7: feet apart while they sing.
S8: Okay. Of course, of course.
S3: At least we're.
S8: Outside. Absolutely.
S7: You know, Barbara, I know that you have a heart
S7: for those who feel intimidated about singing with others, you know,
S7: in a public gathering or maybe sometimes even in the family,
S7: and they feel like they can't sing well, you know,
S7: and so they're reticent. What would you say to those people?
S2: Well, the first thing I would say to them is sing.
S11: Uh.
S2: God has given us a gift of song to all people.
S2: And every person that can speak can sing. And I
S2: think that the culture has given us a different message
S2: telling us, well, there are singers and their listeners, and
S2: I often have people say to me, oh, you don't
S2: want to hear me sing? And I would like to
S2: say to them, oh, yes, I would love to hear
S2: you sing. And I think that the fact is that
S2: people feel because of this, um, performance mentality that we
S2: have had, which was really only been around the last
S2: couple hundred years. Um, I think before that everyone sang more.
S2: That was the only music. If you wanted music, you
S2: provided it for yourself. But that performance mentality has given
S2: us a sense that we're being judged by our singing,
S2: and no one should ever feel judged by their singing.
S2: And so I would simply encourage people, even if you
S2: haven't grown up singing or you're not used to it,
S2: just just try, you know, just get it out there.
S2: I think parents of young children know that you're a
S2: young child can learn to sing. It's much harder as
S2: an adult, but little children can all learn to sing.
S2: And so I think that's one of my, um, vocations
S2: in life, is to encourage people to sing.
S7: You know, I'm thinking also, if you're standing in a
S7: congregation singing and you happen to be a musician, I mean,
S7: you know, trained musician, I hope in hearing the person
S7: next to you maybe missing a note here or there,
S7: you would just say, God bless them. I'm glad they're singing.
S8: Amen, Amen. Absolutely.
S7: Well, David, there's a song you included that I don't
S7: think I've ever heard. Uh, why did you include here's
S7: the name of the song on Jordan's bank, The Baptist Cry.
S3: Well, it's not talking about Baptist by denomination. It's talking
S3: about John the Baptist, who obviously had a very important
S3: part in the Christmas story because he was a foretelling
S3: of Jesus. And I think he needs to have some
S3: recognition for that. And so this, this great hymn, uh,
S3: it is true. I'm not surprised you don't know it. Uh,
S3: not very many people sing it. Although would you believe
S3: it's found in 145 modern hymnals? Hmm. But it was
S3: written in, uh, the late 1600s and, uh, by a
S3: person who was trying to teach people against some of
S3: the doctrines of the Catholic Church. And, uh, he it's
S3: only the first verse that really refers to John the Baptist.
S3: From there on, it goes on to exclaim the Christmas story,
S3: the mystery of the incarnation, and it guides us through
S3: our repentance that, uh, is part of the advent expression.
S3: So it is a in our advent, uh, part of
S3: the book. And it encourages and the gift of grace
S3: by which without we're doomed as flowers bright for a
S3: season than gone. We know that the only way that
S3: our current political issues and social problems will be solved
S3: is by the power of Christ and the grace of forgiveness.
S3: And so it has that all in this, in this song.
S3: And we just felt we have 43 hymns and it
S3: was not easy choosing which ones should go in this.
S3: We stopped at 43 because we wanted one for every
S3: day at the beginning of advent, which is four weeks,
S3: the the Sunday, four weeks before Christmas Day and then
S3: through January 6th, which is the epiphany. And so that's
S3: how we came up with 43, and we tried to
S3: use all the most familiar, uh, carols, The First Noel
S3: and Silent Night and so forth. But then we were
S3: able to include a few of these, like on Jordan's bank,
S3: that are not as familiar.
S12: To you. Oh Christ, our praises beam.
UU: Was heard and states. Were people free by the grace.
UU: We adore and Holy Spirit and.
S5: Well, this is building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman. We
S5: hope you're enjoying our Christmas special. And we're going to
S5: end with a guest whose music is known by generations
S5: of Christians around the world. Singer and songwriter Michael Card.
S6: Michael joined us a dozen years ago, and we talked
S6: about the people who populate the Christmas story. And then
S6: he got personal about his own walk with God. Here's
S6: Michael Card.
S4: Well, I grew up in a Christian home. Both of
S4: my grandfathers were were Baptist ministers. So, I mean, Jesus
S4: was always this person. He was always this presence in
S4: our in our house. Um, my father was a doctor,
S4: but he was a Christian doctor who prayed with his patients.
S4: My mother loved the scriptures. I mean, so I was, I,
S4: I grew up in, in, in a very good context.
S4: I'm very thankful that I grew up in this context.
S4: I don't have a real flashy testimony. And I walked
S4: the aisle when I was eight, but I was still say,
S4: there's this. There's this moment in everyone's life when it
S4: has it has to become your own. When you have
S4: to make it your own, you know, there are no
S4: God has no grandchildren. And for me, I, I didn't
S4: do it very gracefully, to be honest with you. I
S4: was in high school and got real serious with reading
S4: my Bible. Didn't have much of a prayer life when
S4: my mother said she said, once you're when you're 16,
S4: you don't have to go to Sunday school anymore, okay?
S4: And so the day I turned 16, buddy, I was
S4: out of there because I was very serious about the
S4: Bible and and very critical of my church. And it
S4: became very critical of my family and with complete jerk. And, um,
S4: so I when I came to faith on my own
S4: and made it my own, I'm afraid I didn't do
S4: it very gracefully. But God, still, he brought me back
S4: around and blessed me. And my parents forgave me.
S7: You know, Michael, I think you put your hand on
S7: something there of of sometimes walking away from God because
S7: of what you see in the church, maybe as an
S7: organization or sometimes in people. And I wonder today, uh,
S7: when people see Christians in America, I wonder if they're
S7: drawn to him or if they see in us things
S7: that push them away from him.
S13: Yeah.
S4: And I'm afraid we all know the answer to that question. Um,
S4: but the good news is that I think God is
S4: still doing his thing and and that there's still so
S4: many individuals, there's so many people who love the Lord and,
S4: and are are on a one on one, you know,
S4: basis are going, you know, going, doing racial reconciliation, doing
S4: neighborhood renewal, reaching out to, you know, Aids victims. And
S4: I mean, who all all those people that that, uh,
S4: oftentimes for theological reasons, the church quits reaching out to.
S4: I've still got to believe, you know, God doing his
S4: thing and, uh, but, uh, but it breaks my heart, uh, Gary, that. Yeah,
S4: that that's so often where our where our own worst enemy.
S4: But again, the fleet of the life of Jesus. What
S4: happens early in the ministry of Jesus? He's he's just
S4: like Paul. He's preaching in synagogues. And he he preaches
S4: that sermon in Nazareth where he says that there are
S4: all these times that God reached out to the Gentiles
S4: before he reached out to the Jews, and that's it.
S4: They kick him out of the synagogue. He never goes back.
S4: So organized religion, you know, didn't didn't embrace Jesus, uh,
S4: very well either. So it's always been a struggle.
S7: Chris brought up the concept that one of the names
S7: of Jesus is Emmanuel, which which means.
S13: Which.
S4: Means God with us, which, uh, which is his incarnation name. And, uh,
S4: it's the perfect name. Um, because what I, I like to,
S4: I like to think that it embraces the whole Bible
S4: because it's the deepest desire of God is to be
S4: with us. That's what the garden we saw in the
S4: garden after the fall. Right after the fall, God is
S4: still saying, Adam, where are you? Because his his deepest
S4: desires to be with us. Then he gives us the law,
S4: the purpose of the law is that we might. Be
S4: with God. The promise in Leviticus is that, uh, those
S4: who keep the law. God says, I'll walk with you
S4: and be your God, and you'll be my people. It's what, uh,
S4: the cross was about. It was what the incarnation was about.
S4: It was, um. The last words from his lips were,
S4: I behold, I'm with you see, the God who's with us.
S4: And then the climax of the Bible in Revelation 21,
S4: John hears a loud voice saying, it lasted. Dwelling of
S4: God is with men and women, and he will live
S4: with them. So Emmanuel is what it is all about.
S8: Yeah.
S7: You know, I was reading, uh, just recently again, Michael, uh,
S7: Matthew chapter one, where it lists the genealogy of Jesus, uh,
S7: traced back through Joseph. And I was astounded at so
S7: many people in that list who were liars, who were murderers,
S7: who were who were prostitutes. And they're all in the
S7: genealogy of Jesus. Right. That gives hope, does it not?
S7: For people today who may feel no hope in their life,
S7: in their relationships?
S4: Oh, absolutely. And I you know, when I look at
S4: my own life and see what a liar and what
S4: a cheater and, you know, uh, uh, how in so
S4: many ways I've, uh, I've fallen short, um, I, I,
S4: I always, always look back and realize, you know, that.
S4: But that's all. All God has to work with is
S4: people with mixed motives. And, uh, the people in that genealogy. Right.
S4: And God, you know, God love him. I mean, I
S4: love the man, but I think Billy Graham would tell
S4: you all he's got is mixed motives, right? That's all
S4: any of us have. And so isn't it wonderful that, um,
S4: God allows us to be part of this? I saw
S4: this in Mark for the first time. Jesus begins his
S4: preaching ministry before he calls his disciples. He could have
S4: done it without them. Yeah, but isn't it isn't it
S4: amazing that after he begins his preaching ministry, he he
S4: he calls us, uh, to be part of what he's
S4: doing and, uh. Wow, what an incredible privilege that is.
S8: Yeah.
S7: You know, you mentioned Billy Graham. I was up at
S7: the Cove, the Billy Graham Training Center, just recently, and
S7: I saw a quote on the wall and in the little, uh,
S7: museum part there, uh, where Billy had said about his
S7: ministry and his life, I just feel like a spectator
S7: standing back watching God work.
S4: Wow, wow. Now, for Billy Graham to say that, I mean,
S4: it's one thing for me to say that, for Billy
S4: Graham to say that. But that's true for us all,
S4: isn't it? I mean, my, my my approach to ministry
S4: when I mean, whenever I do a concert or speak
S4: or whatever it is I do, I always stop and say, okay, uh, one,
S4: don't humiliate yourself to don't mess up what God's doing, right?
S4: God's doing something. Don't you dare mess that up. Okay,
S4: so now, now go do whatever it is you're supposed
S4: to do.
S7: Don't get in his way.
S4: Don't get in his way.
S7: Well, Michael, it's been great to have you on the
S7: program today. And we're going to close with your song, Emmanuel,
S7: can you tell us how you came to write this song?
S4: Well, this this song came from our wedding. Uh, the
S4: the sermon that was preached at our at our wedding, uh,
S4: 30 years ago by William Lane was, uh, it was
S4: a Christmas wedding, uh, December 14th. And, uh, the message
S4: that Bill preached was in the context of marriage. Emmanuel,
S4: if God is with you in the context of your marriage,
S4: who could ever be against you? And, uh, I wrote
S4: that song. It came out maybe, maybe a year later.
S4: And Bill, uh, calls me and, uh, says, oh, Michael,
S4: I just heard you. This your song? Emmanuel. What a
S4: marvelous use of Scripture you have. And I laughed. I said, Bill,
S4: that was your sermon that you preached at our wedding.
S4: And he laughed. He belly laughed on the phone. He said, well,
S4: I did think it was particularly fine. But that's where
S4: that song came from. That's how our marriage started, was
S4: with hearing this word if God is with you, then
S4: who could be against you?
S7: Well, Michael, it's been great to have you with us today.
S7: God bless you. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas season.
S4: Thank you so much. And the same. Right? Right back
S4: to you, Doctor Chapman and and Andrea and Chris. Always
S4: good to be with you guys.
S6: Michael Card from a conversation more than a decade ago.
S6: And we hope you've enjoyed our Christmas special here. On
S6: building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S5: For our featured resource. Go to Building Relationships with us
S5: and you can see the Lehman's book Hosanna in Excelsis.
S5: You can also find simple ways to strengthen relationships right there.
S5: So go to Building Relationships with us.
S6: Thanks to Steve Wick and Janice backing next week, our
S6: final program of 2023. Don't miss it!
S5: Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of
S5: Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of
S5: Moody Bible Institute. As we conclude our program, here are
S5: some final musical thoughts from Michael Card.
UU: What will be your answer? Oh, will you hear the call?
UU: Of him who did not spare his son. We gave
UU: him for us all. On earth, there is no power.
UU: There is no depth or. Could ever separate us. In my.
UU: Stand again. Our God is with. Those in my. Against us.
UU: Will be my.