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Speaker 1: Host of our nightly sports show, Kevin Mack's Sports Hour

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Speaker 1: is Kevin McNamara, and he's a steady hand on these matters.

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Speaker 1: He's a clear thinker on these matters, and he is

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Speaker 1: following professional football as a professional writer for a long time.

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Speaker 1: So I got a check in by the way, you

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Speaker 1: were at stores last night, now right.

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Speaker 2: I was, first of all, I'm a newsmaker. I love that,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: Well, listen, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a I don't have a specially designed

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Speaker 1: line for you know, a you know, one of the its.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, how about that.

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Speaker 2: That's fine.

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Speaker 1: Well give me ten give me ten seconds on the Friars. Listen,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't such a bad effort from Friars last night.

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Speaker 1: I mean it is Yukon, Forreven's sake.

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Speaker 2: Right. No, I get a call.

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Speaker 3: I got a call from a former coaching friend this morning.

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Speaker 2: Uh. Well he's a former coach who is a friend.

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Speaker 3: Uh And he said, you know, in previous years, this

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Speaker 3: is going a little too deep for the Dan York Show.

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Speaker 3: But in previous years, Providence goes over and plays the

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Speaker 3: number two team in the cut very tight right to

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Speaker 3: the last.

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Speaker 2: Minute, and two of.

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Speaker 3: Their best players are freshmen, their starting center as a sophomore.

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Speaker 3: Nice corps to grow forward right next year the year after. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: things have changed in college basketball. Everyone's a free agent.

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Speaker 3: Those freshmen might not turn into sophomores at Providence, So another.

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Speaker 2: Loss of the Friars.

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Speaker 3: But hey, Dan, to your point, I did the show

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Speaker 3: from stores yesterday, thank you to my friends at the

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Speaker 3: University Connecticut, and we didn't talk about PC yukon right

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Speaker 3: off the top. We talked about coach Belichick.

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Speaker 1: When did this break? Was it yesterday afternoon.

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Speaker 2: About about five o'clock?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And two of the very best reporters that ESPN has,

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Speaker 3: Don Van Natta and Seth Wickersham.

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Speaker 2: And Seth has been really.

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Speaker 3: Deep into the Robert Craft, Bill Belichick, Tom Brady relationship breakdown,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. So there's no way they get this wrong.

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Speaker 3: They'll announce the official Hall of Fame class during Super

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Speaker 3: Bowl Week next week sometime.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's see if we can figure this whole

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Speaker 1: thing out by process before we get into the implications

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Speaker 1: and the theories and the remedies and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. So the Hall of Fame is what a

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Speaker 1: fifty vote panel explained to me how this thing works.

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Speaker 3: This is where this is where things break down right away. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, the Baseball Hall of Fame is the baseball writers.

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Speaker 2: There's literally.

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Speaker 3: There might be seven eight hundred who vote for the

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Speaker 3: Baseball Hall of Fame, way too many that that's their choice.

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Speaker 3: The Pro Football Hall of Fame finalists get weighed by

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Speaker 3: a panel of fifty. And I've looked at this list

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Speaker 3: in the past and it's basically one person from all

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Speaker 3: thirty two teams, a few others and.

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Speaker 2: Some at largers to get up to fifty.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I've been doing you know, sports media for

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Speaker 3: a long time. I look at some of these names.

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Speaker 3: I'm no kid anymore. Some of these people on this

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Speaker 3: list are at least fifteen to twenty years older than me.

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Speaker 3: So I just disagree with the list. That's no you know,

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Speaker 3: elderly bias here. But it's a little ridiculous if you

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Speaker 3: haven't covered the league for you know, ten to fifteen

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Speaker 3: years to still be voting for the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 2: That's a Now they do mix it up.

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Speaker 3: It's a vast majority of the fifty are media people,

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Speaker 3: but there's some former players and there's some former league

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Speaker 3: executives team executives as well, Tony Dungee who used to

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Speaker 3: coach in Indianapolis, Bill Polian who used to run the Colts,

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Speaker 3: Dan Fouts who was a Hall of Fame quarterback.

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Speaker 2: Et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And this process has been retooled in the last year

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Speaker 1: or so.

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Speaker 3: It has so in order to become a finalist, you

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Speaker 3: get widow down. So in order to the border directors

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Speaker 3: of the Hall, which is a much smaller group than

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Speaker 3: the fifty, they determine the finalists, and then the group

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Speaker 3: of fifty that I just described they do the actual

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Speaker 3: electing to the Hall of Fame. That's usually four to

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Speaker 3: seven people in every class and they're honored in the

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Speaker 3: summertime at the Hall which is in Canada, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: And there are categories, so coach Belichick is considered into

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Speaker 1: what's called like the coaching slash slash category. So there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a it's not like it's a random number

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Speaker 1: of nominees. There are slots, gotcha.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's players players compete against players only, so

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Speaker 3: Belichick is not up against players who are you know,

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Speaker 3: recent players. There's also there's a reach back, a clawback

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Speaker 3: of some older players who didn't get elected originally, and

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Speaker 3: they still want to put them on the ballot and

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Speaker 3: that group gets lobbed in with contributors and coaches. So

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Speaker 3: this year, for example, the senior finalists are a old

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Speaker 3: time great players, Ken Anderson, Roger Craig, Elsie Greenwood, Robert

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Speaker 3: Kraft for the first time ever.

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Speaker 2: Is in that mix, as is Bill Belichick.

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Speaker 3: So Belichick and Craft pretty much up against each other,

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Speaker 3: and you can, you can they can have multiple people

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Speaker 3: from this subset, and the theory was that one of

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Speaker 3: the two will get in. And the theory was that

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Speaker 3: Belichick would get in and not Craft or the two

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Speaker 3: of them together, which would be just really juicy because

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Speaker 3: we know they really don't like each other. So I

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Speaker 3: was rooting for that as a media member here in

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Speaker 3: New England and who had covered the two together and

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Speaker 3: saw their relationship rise and definitely fall.

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Speaker 1: Kevin mcmaher's with this the Okay, it's a weird deal.

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Speaker 1: So some of the reading I did, I followed the Athletic.

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Speaker 1: I'm a subscriber to the Athletic. I read an interesting

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Speaker 1: piece in the Athletic today by a that's his name,

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Speaker 1: Jacob Robinson. I think maybe I don't or no. Actually,

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame voter Mike Sando, who Mike sand He

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Speaker 1: explains he's it's his theory that Belichick didn't really likely

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Speaker 1: get snubbed. It's that there was kind of an assumption

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Speaker 1: as people were considering their discretionary votes not to vote

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Speaker 1: for Belichick because everybody kind of assumed that everybody was

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Speaker 1: voting for him. And when everybody assumes everybody's going to

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Speaker 1: vote for him, that you make a bad assumption and

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Speaker 1: you use your votes in other places, and everybody looks

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Speaker 1: at each other at the end of the thing goes,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, you know, vote for Belichick. I though

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Speaker 1: you're going to vote for Belichick because I was because

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Speaker 1: I figured you'd vote that kind of thing. Is that

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Speaker 1: Is that possible?

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Speaker 2: It is? But isn't that just an excuse? Dan?

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Speaker 3: And we're gonna hear from most of these media people

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Speaker 3: because their credit after the voting is announced, they have

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Speaker 3: every right to, you know, disclose what they did. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so you and I are on the committee, and okay,

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Speaker 3: I think you're probably gonna vote for Belichick.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: It's my job to weigh everybody, and Bill Belichick's the

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Speaker 3: first ballot Hall of Famer if he's not the greatest

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Speaker 3: coach ever, he's in the top two. And now, you know,

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Speaker 3: you could say, and maybe you're one of those guys

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Speaker 3: who says, you know, no one should be a first

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Speaker 3: ballot Hall of Famer. We've seen that before in baseball,

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Speaker 3: right many times. Some clown didn't vote for Derek Jeter

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Speaker 3: to be in the Hall of Fame his first time

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Speaker 3: up in the Baseball Hall of Fame. There's not a

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Speaker 3: lot of examples of this with the football group, however,

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Speaker 3: And Okay, Belichick, Craft, Elsie Greenwood, Roger Craig, I mean,

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Speaker 3: come on, it's not close. It's Bill Belichick above everybody else.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not listening to any excuses that you know, well,

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Speaker 3: I thought my friend was going to vote for him,

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Speaker 3: so I'm going to vote for LC.

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Speaker 1: I mean, come on, please, all right, So you don't

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Speaker 1: you find that that's not a play here. And the

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Speaker 1: mission of this, this guy's opining about this, I guess,

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Speaker 1: was to minimize the shirking of Belichick, to actually put

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Speaker 1: a highlight on what is are, you know, an ill formed,

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Speaker 1: maladjusted process in general for nominees to be considered and

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Speaker 1: to be voted upon Dan.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to cut you off. It's pretty obvious. Why

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Speaker 2: did so?

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Speaker 3: Why didn't you know some of the people on this

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Speaker 3: fifty that he needed forty votes, So at least ten

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Speaker 3: people didn't vote for Why not Either they don't believe

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Speaker 3: in first ballot.

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Speaker 2: Hall of Famers, which is ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Or they think that Belichick because of spygate and deflate gate,

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Speaker 3: And you can flush out what those two things are

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Speaker 3: are staying on Belichick's resume that needs to be punished,

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Speaker 3: and they want to be the punishers.

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Speaker 2: We do see this in the base.

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Speaker 3: Hall of Fame with people voting against guys who were

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Speaker 3: involved in steroids. That's a totally different situation, but it's

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Speaker 3: because of.

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Speaker 2: Spygate and to flay gate.

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Speaker 3: Spygate is certainly a you know, much much more egregious

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Speaker 3: than the deflay gate situation.

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Speaker 1: So let's take a sidebar with Kevin mcnamurray and remind

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Speaker 1: everybody what spygate was. That was. That was literally what

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Speaker 1: from a hotel room taking a look at practice for

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Speaker 1: the for the other team.

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Speaker 3: No, it was literally it was literally taping the sideline

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Speaker 3: signals during games. Yeah, so you know they have someone

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Speaker 3: up in the press box and instead of watching the

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Speaker 3: field of play, there looking at the opposing coaches and

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Speaker 3: trying to decipher their signals to flay Gate is of

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Speaker 3: course Tom Brady liked his footballs at a certain pressure.

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Speaker 3: It was a little lower than regulations. The NFL really

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Speaker 3: really penalized Belichick and the Patriots because of Spygate.

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Speaker 2: They were guilty to flay Gates and much which much

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Speaker 2: more you.

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Speaker 3: Know, easier, lower penalty, and I think was more retribution

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Speaker 3: that they didn't get penalized even harder in Spygate.

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Speaker 2: But we don't want to get too far into the weeds.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people, including by the way, Bill Polian

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Speaker 3: and Tony Dungee were both heavily involved against the Patriots

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Speaker 3: at the time of Spygate and the flight gate, and

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Speaker 3: they're on this committee and I have no idea how

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Speaker 3: they voted. Hopefully they come out and say so, but

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Speaker 3: that would only be two of the you know, ten

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Speaker 3: to eleven votes.

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Speaker 2: That would be needed to keep Belichick out anyway.

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Speaker 1: So it's spygate.

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Speaker 2: Was what year.

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Speaker 3: Spygate was, like, I'd say early twenty tens, twenty.

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Speaker 1: Ten, Yeah, I remember, you crystalize it for us really well.

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Speaker 1: I remember listening to the debates about it in the like,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know this, this idea that communications systems

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Speaker 1: are are supposed to be impenetrable, not to try spygate again,

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Speaker 1: but just to remind everybody about about the dust up

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Speaker 1: over all this I always felt that to be kind

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Speaker 1: of a I don't know, a red herring debate. What

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Speaker 1: was ever wrong with Belichick trying to trying to exceed

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Speaker 1: what others would do to try to figure out what

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Speaker 1: the other team was doing, including but not limited to,

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Speaker 1: you know, just trying to break down their comms.

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Speaker 3: I don't well, I think you're trying to describe a

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Speaker 3: trying to achieve a competitive advantage.

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Speaker 2: That's what he was trying to do. However, it is

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Speaker 2: in the rules that it's.

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Speaker 3: Illegal to tape another team's signs, you know, hand signals,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, to the point where now as you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, you get a little dot on the helmets now,

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Speaker 3: so the coaches talk directly to the players offense and defense,

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Speaker 3: they get the plays in that way instead of the

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Speaker 3: hand signals.

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Speaker 2: I remember back in the day, it was like guys

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Speaker 2: were doing, you know, a lot of sign language.

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Speaker 1: And to be five guys, you know, because it was

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Speaker 1: the decoys and all that kind of thing. Well, as

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Speaker 1: a as a as an old catcher, as a young guy,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of signals back and forth. If someone

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Speaker 1: second base figured out if I just called for a curveball,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's on me. I don't Anyway, that's the

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Speaker 1: whole debate that we go. We go back to twenty

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Speaker 1: ten and start that whole thing up. But the impact

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Speaker 1: of that, the distaste of that, plus plus the deflated

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Speaker 1: football situation may just be looming, is what you're saying

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Speaker 1: for some of these veteran voters who just are trying

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Speaker 1: to teach Bill Belichick a lesson, that that is the

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Speaker 1: theory that is both most popular here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll also say this about the about the media,

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Speaker 3: A lot of people obviously, Bill was not warm.

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Speaker 2: And fuzzy with the media.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we know that I was at a million Bill

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Speaker 3: Belichick press conferences both in Fox Burrow and at Super Bowls.

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Speaker 3: I covered three super Bowls, and that's you know, thousands

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Speaker 3: of media members go to Super Bowls.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you that if it's the local media.

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Speaker 3: Who had a problem with Belichick, I can almost understand

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Speaker 3: that because you had to deal with them literally, you

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Speaker 3: would talk four times a week.

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Speaker 2: For months and months.

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Speaker 3: The New England rep on this board is Ron Borges.

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Speaker 3: Ron Borges is a retired sports writer. He was at

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Speaker 3: the Boston Globe the Boston Herald as the NFL writer for.

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Speaker 2: Years and years. I don't know how Ron voted.

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Speaker 3: I can't imagine that he would have a big problem

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Speaker 3: with Belichick. All the other people who I'm looking up

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Speaker 3: and down the list here, they were fascinated by Belichick

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Speaker 3: because they didn't deal with him on a daily basis.

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Speaker 3: They only saw him at playoff time or a big

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Speaker 3: game when their team happened to come in, you know,

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Speaker 3: to Foxborough. But you know, the big press conferences at

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Speaker 3: Super Bowl time, people wouldn't miss him because they just

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Speaker 3: wanted to see what Belichick had to say and how dismissive.

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Speaker 2: He would be.

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Speaker 3: You know, we know the whole grunt and sniff routine

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Speaker 3: that Belichick mastered over the year. Anyone who says all

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Speaker 3: that he treated the media like crap and now he's

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Speaker 3: getting penalized for it, I heartily.

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Speaker 2: Disagree with that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what's the remedy, if anything? First of all, is

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Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame formally tied into the NFL proper.

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Speaker 2: It is?

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Speaker 3: I believe it is. I think it's partially funded. The

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Speaker 3: only thing that the Hall of Fame does besides being

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Speaker 3: an open Hall of Fame is they have the one

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Speaker 3: big induction weekend every summertime. Beyond that, it sits in Canada, Ohio.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's a place I've never been to and

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Speaker 3: probably never will go to. But I do think it's

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Speaker 3: it's certainly blessed by the NFL. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: it's funded necessarily.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, is there any kind of management connectivity

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Speaker 1: between the NFL and the Hall of Fame? So the

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Speaker 1: question that I ask after that is, can the commissioner

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Speaker 1: step in here and say, hey, listen, this is so

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Speaker 1: egregious that calling an audible here. Do you guys go

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Speaker 1: back in there and figured it out and revote this thing?

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Speaker 1: Or we're going to demand induction of Bill Belichick to

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Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. And what is his leverage if

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Speaker 1: he decided he wanted to do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the answer is no, and no. I

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Speaker 3: think he'll be voted in next year. They're gonna win

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Speaker 3: their pound of flesh by one year. I think Robert Kraft.

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Speaker 2: Now this is a total guest. I think Craft will

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Speaker 2: get in this year. We'll find out.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, that's a whole different story. That

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Speaker 3: guy should have been a finalist, you know, multiple times.

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Speaker 3: This is the very first year that he's a finalist.

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Speaker 3: He's only one, you know, the owner of a team

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Speaker 3: that's been in I don't know is a ten Super

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Speaker 3: Bowls six wins? But yeah, I think he's gonna have

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Speaker 3: to wait one more year.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: I think Roger Goodell and the in the NFL, you know,

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Speaker 3: hierarchy can say to the Hall of Fame, well, obviously,

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Speaker 3: you guys have an issue with your selection process. Can we,

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Speaker 3: you know, make that fifty down down to twenty or

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Speaker 3: make the fifty up to one hundred something where something

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Speaker 3: like this, which does seem like a gross oversight, doesn't

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Speaker 3: happen again, because, for example, in a couple of years,

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Speaker 3: there's going to be a quarterback who we're pretty familiar with, who,

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Speaker 3: by the way, was involved in Spygate and to flight Gate,

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Speaker 3: who's arguably the greatest player to ever live. Is he

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Speaker 3: not going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer

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Speaker 3: Tom Brady? So they certainly have to button up their process,

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Speaker 3: that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no way that this Hall of Fame as

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Speaker 1: an entity can suffer two of these controversies back to back,

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Speaker 1: seems to me. But he raised an interesting point about

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Speaker 1: mister Craft. Remind me again we're talking about Kevin McNamara. Course,

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Speaker 1: So there'll be more on this tonight at six o'clock,

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Speaker 1: I can promise you.

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Speaker 3: But the.

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Speaker 1: So the status of this like he didn't make the finalists,

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Speaker 1: It's not like so there's another qualifying round here. In

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Speaker 1: other words, there's there's still voting to come.

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Speaker 3: No, no, Once you're a finalist, then this group of

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Speaker 3: fifty votes, so the votes are in on Craft as well.

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Speaker 3: And again what we all find out until next week.

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Speaker 3: But you have to make the finalist group. Craft has

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Speaker 3: always been denied making the finalist group in previous years.

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Speaker 1: And Belichick didn't make you Belichick didn't make the finalist group.

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Speaker 1: Is so I'm clear?

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Speaker 2: Correct? No, No, they're both finalists for the first time

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Speaker 2: this year.

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Speaker 1: So why do we know Belichick didn't get.

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Speaker 2: In because ESPN reported it yesterday.

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Speaker 3: This is ahead of time, ahead of the announcement for that.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, it's a Leak got it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Elak Eleak exactly.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Now, any chance the Craft gets voted in and

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Speaker 1: does the magnanimous thing and says, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be in before my.

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Speaker 2: Coach, I would be shocked, I think to his credit.

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Speaker 2: If I'm voted in, I'd say, it's ridiculous that Bill Belichick,

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Speaker 2: my coach, is with me. What a gross over site.

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Speaker 3: You know, he should be magnanimous in that situation if

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Speaker 3: it comes to pass. And again, I believe the announcement

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Speaker 3: is usually on like Wednesday or Thursday of Super Bowl week,

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Speaker 3: so that'll be next week, so it's only you know,

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Speaker 3: a week ahead. But no, Dan, Again, these guys are

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Speaker 3: not pals. They certainly have great memories together. Kraft just

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Speaker 3: fired him three years ago. Wherever it is, that's not

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Speaker 3: going to happen in Craft at his age.

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Speaker 2: You know, he's no kid, he's mid eighties.

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Speaker 3: He wants to be in the Hall of Fame, you know,

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Speaker 3: as badly as Bill Belichick.

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Speaker 1: Oh, is there a downtime? Isn't it five years that

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Speaker 1: you've got to be out of game before you get

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Speaker 1: voted in or is that another sport?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that's that's baseball football. They actually as part

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Speaker 3: of their change the rules, would she said, the selection process,

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Speaker 3: that's that that speeded Bill Belichick's you know, eligibility up

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Speaker 3: by by a.

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Speaker 2: Year or two. So obviously he hasn't been a coach

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Speaker 2: in the NFL for three.

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Speaker 1: Years, Brady has another two years to wait.

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Speaker 2: Is there?

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Speaker 1: It is?

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Speaker 2: I believe, So I believe.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, all right, well is this the end of

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Speaker 1: the story. Look, I talk about talk about infamy Bill Belichick.

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Speaker 1: If he was not if he was a finalist and

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Speaker 1: he got any and he was voted in, oh blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah, everyone would be like, of course, all right,

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Speaker 1: well you know, Belichick's in, done it up. But the

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Speaker 1: idea that he's not in has created more discussion about

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Speaker 1: him than he could ever probably imagine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's also create an awful lot of discussion

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Speaker 3: about the Pro Football Hall of Fame negatively, but you

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Speaker 3: know the old adage, know, you'd rather be talked about

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Speaker 3: than ignored. The Pro Football Hall of Fame is in

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Speaker 3: the news, is starting yesterday and probably all week, all

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Speaker 3: weekend and into next week when they finally announ who

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Speaker 3: will be in there. At twenty twenty six class, they

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Speaker 3: probably need to change the process a little bit.

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Speaker 2: But then again, they.

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Speaker 3: Need to think long and hard about what changes could

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Speaker 3: be made to avoid something like this.

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Speaker 2: I don't have those answers just yet.

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Speaker 3: Bill Belichick was a finalist in his first year of eligibility.

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Speaker 2: That's really all the Hall can do.

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Speaker 3: Then they have their selectors, the fifty people, and he

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Speaker 3: didn't get the forty votes.

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Speaker 1: Has he said anything? Have I missed it? Has he

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Speaker 1: said anything?

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Speaker 3: In the ESPN story he was quoted unnamed source you

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Speaker 3: know Belichick said. I think his line was I guess

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Speaker 3: six super Bowls wasn't enough. So that sounds like Bill.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he'll have a press conference to talk about.

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Speaker 2: I think he'd say something at some point. You know,

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Speaker 2: how about this one? Do you think?

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Speaker 3: And I don't know the answer. Does Bill Belichick go

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Speaker 3: to the Super Bowl this year? A? He's a college coach.

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Speaker 3: B he's a college coach. He's always recruiting, he's always

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Speaker 3: working the portal. He has no more relationship and probably

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Speaker 3: some ill feelings toward the Patriots.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he goes to the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, his name was not included in

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Speaker 1: any conversation about NFL vacancies either correct.

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Speaker 3: No, none. He is committed to a second year at

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Speaker 3: the University of North Carolina, him and his gallapal Jordan.

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Speaker 2: I guess there are Tar Hills forever. I know that.

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Speaker 1: I know you've got thoughts about that as well, So

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Speaker 1: we'll have to wait till six o'clock. All right, Pal,

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Speaker 1: came a great overview, Thank you very much,