1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Good morning, Attorney General, Good morning, Jane. Nice to have 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: you on. Let's begin, Let's go, let's just press in 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: case of these kids, these four kids eleven twelve years old. 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: I know you charged two with them a murder? Are 5 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: the is that coming for the other two? Hanging the balance? 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: Well, that remains to be seeing, Jane. I don't want 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 2: to get over over our skis here. Yeah, horrible, horrible 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 2: facts as we understand them. And I will say that, 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: you know, there are lots of challenging parts of this job. 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: There are many many parts that I love, but cases 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: involving children as defendants are some of the most difficult 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 2: ones to navigate because the system is very different for 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: juveniles and making the right call is it can be 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: very difficult. Now, this one less so because of the 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: because of the the facts here. But we've had others, 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: you know where you know, teenage girl on Block Island 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 2: is with her boyfriend and she's driving and she's had 18 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: too much to drink, shouldn't drinking at all, and he 19 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 2: puts his head out the window, hits the telephone poll 20 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: and dies. I mean, those are what to do with 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: that fifteen year old child? In terms of criminal justice 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: with a lot of competing emotions can be very difficult. 23 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: You know, this case is this case is a deliberate homicide, 24 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: so doesn't isn't quite the same, But nevertheless, you're dealing 25 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 2: with children. There are a lot of competing factors and 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: forces involved. Of course. You know, the bottom line though, 27 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: is that your heart goes out to the victim and 28 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: their family. 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: Just accurate. So the two that you've already up to 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: chry just to murder, they're gonna be tried as adults. 31 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: The two of them. 32 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: Well, there's a process by which we have to go 33 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: through to do that gene and involves the family court. 34 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: The family court has to has to weigh in on 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: that question. You know. So I don't want again, I 36 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: don't want to I don't want to prejudge that issue. 37 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: But that is a let's put it this way. That 38 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 2: is that that is a possibility and probably a strong one. 39 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 2: But but we're talking about very young children here, so 40 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 2: so it's not as easy to question as when it's 41 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 2: a seventeen year old. We've got cases so for example, 42 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: outside one of the prominent schools where a seventeen year 43 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: old shot at another another student and hit it innocent 44 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: bystander and kill them. Yeah, not a difficult case there. 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: So we'll see what the what the family court does here. 46 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: But but I would anticipate that that that's the direction 47 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: we'll be heading in. But again I don't want to 48 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: prejudge it. 49 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: What can you say about motive? I don't know if 50 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: I missed it, but I haven't heard motive here. I 51 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: know that I know they were throwing, allegedly throwing snowballs 52 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: at passing vehicles. Is it as simple as the guys 53 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: that stopped doing that and they turned on him? What's 54 00:02:58,680 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: the motive? 55 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: Well, again, I don't I don't want to. I don't 56 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: want to talk about facts in a juvenile case, which again, 57 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: judges look at these cases. Uh, you know, every criminal 58 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: case is looked at carefully. But I think you know 59 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: what I mean, Jean, But look there, there's there's a 60 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 2: lot of the fact is I understand him as alleged 61 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: are are? This is a matter of It's it's almost 62 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: inexplicable that you would just as alleged here beat someone 63 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: for uh, for no for no good purpose. It's it's 64 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: shocking and really, you know, you know it really is. 65 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: I mean, God knows as a teenager, I I did 66 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: things that or even a preteen that that my father 67 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: Uh well, let's just say he took a very dim 68 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: view of But this goes well beyond that, obviously. 69 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: But let me press you and you can answer if 70 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: you want. You can you can avoid it if you 71 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: if you don't feel like answering. But is this as 72 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: simple as the guy was telling them stops throwing snowballs 73 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: and they turned on him? Is there. 74 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: Even sure there's even I mean, look, that's not that 75 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: wouldn't be a motive for I know you know this, 76 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: and that's not the point you're making. But I don't 77 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: even want to suggest that that it was even that 78 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: it was even something like that. Uh you know, I'm 79 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: not even I don't even want to even suggest that 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: the person said anything because I'm not entirely certain they did. 81 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: So you know, again, I don't want to get over 82 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: my skis on facts, so we have to establish in court. 83 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: But but I just will say that it could be 84 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: just a situation where this person was targeted because he 85 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: just happened to be a person a target of opportunity. 86 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 2: But those are facts that will play out in court, 87 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 2: and we'll see where we go. 88 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: In other words, he just may have been he just 89 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: may have been standing there, and and all right, you've 90 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: made your point. I understand. I don't want to I 91 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: don't want to compromise the case in any way. 92 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: And then the question team is like, you know, you 93 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 2: send a child to the training school, though you know 94 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 2: there are there are circumstances. You know, we can keep 95 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 2: the child at the training school until the twenty first birthday. 96 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: Sometimes you don't. But the reality is is you know, 97 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: you're talking about eleven twelve year old children here, and 98 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 2: how you detain them? You know, those are those are 99 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 2: those are There's a reason why when I was used attorney, 100 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: we never wants prosecuted at juvenile even though we could have, 101 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: because just the practical realities around how you do that 102 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: are very difficult. It's doable, and we're going to do 103 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: it here. And that's not at all to suggest that 104 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: what they what they are alleged to have done is 105 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 2: not a crime, and a horrible one, but it just 106 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: complicates things. It's just a totally different it's just a 107 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 2: totally different criminal justice system when the defendants are of 108 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: this age and there are a lot of it's just 109 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: It's just there are a lot of things that as 110 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 2: prosecutors we just have to be tread very carefully about 111 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: to get to justice. But we're going to. 112 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: Do that here seven forty three Attorney Journal. Just one 113 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: more more question before I move on to other things. 114 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: Just so so much we're talking about. Does this involve 115 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: kind of attorney general? If there are for them, that 116 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: means there's four more somewhere and for more behind them. 117 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: Does this need some kind of a community intervention, something 118 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: beyond just what we're going to go after the four kids? Oh? 119 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: I think so. I think. Look, I think that there 120 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: are plenty of great kids out there, as you know, 121 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: in all of our providence, in urban and suburban and 122 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 2: rural communities that these kids don't represent. But that's not 123 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 2: to say that there is not juvenile crime out there. 124 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: That's why we have as many juvenile for judges as 125 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: we do. You know, I don't want to I don't 126 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: want to take one case and make broad generalizations from it. 127 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 2: But no question, you ask yourselves, you know, you know 128 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: what where are you know what? You know? To the 129 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: extent these children had parents in their lives, you know, 130 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: you know where were they? On the other hand. You know, 131 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: some kids are just hard to control. I mean, it's just, uh, 132 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: you know, there's some broader societal question for all of 133 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: us here, I suppose, But you know, my job and 134 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: here is to focus on this case, and that's what 135 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: we'll do. 136 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: Okay. The mayor and Mayor Smiley is taking action, executive 137 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: orders and other things with regard to Ice. Uh. You 138 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: used to be the US attorney which meant you dealt 139 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: on the federal level of Justice Department's representative here, and 140 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: now you are the state attorney general. So you have 141 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: the You've got the both ends of the book. Uh, 142 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: Ice coming in to grab a criminal up on the 143 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: third floor of the triple decker. Are you okay with 144 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: that mission? Attorney General? Is that legitimate in your view? 145 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: And is that is that? Is that grounded and founded? 146 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: Well, there are two question. Right wants a matter of 147 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 2: policy and the other one's a matter of law. So 148 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: if what you're asking me is is the fellow who 149 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: works uh you know, you know wherever janitorial staff at 150 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: the local hospital, who came into the country without lawful 151 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: status and hasn't committed I know, if I say hasn't 152 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: committed the crime they're gonna be people listening say we 153 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: committed a crime and he came into the country. Okay, 154 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: let's put that one aside, because in all my time 155 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: as he was attorney, we never once prosecuted that as 156 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: a crime, not once, not once, when I was on 157 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 2: the line, now, when I was running the place, when 158 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: George Bush was president and John Ashcroft was a g 159 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: we never once prosecuted that crime of coming into the 160 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 2: United States without lawful documentation, legal entry. It's what's what 161 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: it's called. But so if if the agents aren't hot 162 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: hot pursuit of anyone, but let's let's pick someone who's 163 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 2: in the country lawfully and they run into the third 164 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: floor tenement because that person has committed an arm robbery 165 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: and they're in hot pursuit. Whether it be they or 166 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: propertised police, they could do that. That that's not an issue. 167 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: If they have a judicial warrant to do that, they 168 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: can they can do that. Look, I'm not steeped in 169 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: the law of administrative warrants issued by an immigration judge, 170 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: So I don't know whether or not that authorizes someone 171 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: to go into that third floor tenement or not. That's 172 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: a legal question. I'd want to look at and if 173 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: they have that authority, then they have every right to 174 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: do that. And then the third level of immigration, immigration paperwork, 175 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: if you will, as a detainer issued by an ICE agent, 176 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 2: which is sometimes right and is sometimes wrong based on 177 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 2: the information they have, and you know that that I 178 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: don't think would give them that right, and I don't 179 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: think I think that I would be very cautious about that, 180 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: particularly given some of the some of the ICE behavior 181 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: that we've seen, you know, on the streets you know, 182 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: a little bit here in Providence and surrounding, but certainly 183 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 2: on in Minneapolis, so that you know, I look at 184 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: it from the lens of a lawyer, Gene, and you know, 185 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: if you're in hot pursuit of someone who's committed a 186 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: felony crime, you know, and and they present a danger 187 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 2: to the public, well then yeah, there are there are 188 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: circumstances when you can and should be able to do that. 189 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 2: I have no trouble and never have had any trouble 190 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: with someone who has committed a a violent crime or 191 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 2: a serious serious fellony offense being delivered by state authorities 192 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 2: to to ICE for deportation. Zero. But I have no 193 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: problem with secure borders and I have no problem with ICE, 194 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: you know, enforcing federal law, but they have to do 195 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: that in a way that actually follows federal law. That's 196 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 2: not to say that that I that I fully understand 197 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 2: what Mayor Smiley did with that executive order and how 198 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: enforceable it is. But you know, that's a question for 199 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: the city law department at some level. And I mean 200 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 2: I'd ask him. 201 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: Well, I did, oh, I did you got complaint? I did? 202 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: He says, well, my executive vote is clear. They have 203 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: to have a judicial warrant to assemble on my parking 204 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: lots or my my parks, and some believe will Love 205 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: Service saying well, what do you you just make this 206 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: stuff up? Who are you to say they have to 207 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: have a judicial warrant? 208 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: I think I think that's a legitimate question as to 209 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: how enforceable that is against ICE. You know, if you know, 210 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: if ICE wants to set up and Burnside Park to 211 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 2: observe someone, you know, coming out of the federal courthouse 212 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: that they believe, you know, as someone who she's in 213 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: the country onlawf way, I think the Providence City of 214 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 2: Providence would be really challenged to try to prevent that 215 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: from happening. But again, that's not, that's not that's not 216 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: my role. I'm just giving you my my insights as 217 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 2: a lawyer. When I said you should ask him, you 218 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: should ask the new US attorney for his for. 219 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: He thinks next week. The good suggestion give me a 220 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: cell phone number. Person. 221 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 2: And you're always ahead of me. That's not that's not 222 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: one of my grievances. You're always ahead of me. 223 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 1: Look. Uh, Smiley says, yeah, you made your point. Yeah, 224 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: I think I doubt that's high to doubt. That's that's enforceable. 225 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: You can't sit here because I want to check you 226 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: while you're kidding me. Uh, let's go listen. 227 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: I think I think if I don't know. First of all, 228 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 2: I think it'd be hard pressed to find the province 229 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: police officer who would approach an ICE agent and as said, 230 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 2: to get out of Burnside Park. You know, maybe the 231 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: city would go to court to try to get ice 232 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 2: out of Burnside Park. I think that would be difficult 233 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 2: to do. But look, you know, the Mayor's Law department 234 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: presumably research these issues, and maybe they know something that 235 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 2: I don't that that's that's not I haven't researched it. 236 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: And it's you know frankly that I have. You know, 237 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: this is one place team where I have no role, 238 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 2: and you know I'm grateful that I don't. I've got 239 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: enough things to do. I gotta I got enough challenges. 240 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: You're the lead law enforcement man, so it's a fair 241 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: question to ask you for your Yeah, I don't mind. 242 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 2: I don't mind giving my insights. I just I haven't 243 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: asked my team to go research whether or not the 244 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 2: city or Providence can kick ICE agents at the Burnside 245 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: Park because that's not something I'm going to have to litigate. 246 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 2: I'm just giving you my insights as a lawyer and 247 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 2: someone who's been around longer than I care to admit. 248 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: Okay, got it. Mayor Smiley conceded to me, what's not 249 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: the wrong word? Acknowledged confirmed to me that he will 250 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: put his police in between Ice up on the triple 251 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: deck of grabbing a guy and protesters blowing their whistles 252 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: on the streets. Go ahead and play that, and then 253 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: you give me a reaction to this. When ICE is 254 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: doing their business up in the triple decker on whatever 255 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: street in your city, will you at least allow the 256 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: police to come and separate ICE from the protesters. And 257 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: keep the peace so that we don't have Minneapolis here. 258 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: I believe you say yes to me last time. Is 259 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: that's still the case. 260 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: It is still the case. I mean the circumstances. It 261 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 3: will depend on the circumstances. But we believe that. And 262 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 3: I don't believe the province police have a duty to 263 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,479 Speaker 3: intervene and have an obligation to protect the community. 264 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: Uh. 265 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 3: And there are many circumstances where I believe the community 266 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: will be safer as a result of Providence police being there. 267 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: Can't answer more than that, they're not ice agents, understand that, 268 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: but they can stand between them and the protests. So 269 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: we don't have Minneapolis. Just give me a quick answer 270 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: on that, Attorney General, then then hang on, I've got 271 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: to take a quick break. I do want to ask 272 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: you for the nutshell on the hospitals and a few 273 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: other things. 274 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: Go ahead. Yeah, Look, I think that's a that's a 275 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: in practice, that's going to be a very delicate issue. 276 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: So I think that the police could be effective in 277 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 2: you know, kind of forming a line to keep protesters 278 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: from directly confronting, but knowing exactly how and when that's 279 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: going to happen, and to be there if you're not deconflicting, 280 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 2: meaning talking to one another in advance of operations, which 281 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: they're not doing. In other words, typically, if if ATF, 282 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: when I was used attorney in ATF, was going to 283 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: execute a search warrant at you know, thirty four Taylor Street, 284 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: I'm just picking the name of a street, they will 285 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 2: let Province Police know that they were going to do that. 286 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: That didn't mean Providence Police had to help them, but 287 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: they would deconflict. So that what that means is so 288 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 2: you don't have a blue on blue situation. That's and 289 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: my understanding is that's not happening with ice, and that's 290 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 2: a particularly when they're I'm playing close that can that 291 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 2: can lead to a bad outcome. So look, in a 292 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 2: perfect world, that'll work assuming everybody's talking to everyone, but 293 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: it could also turn out to nevertheless be very chaotic. 294 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: So it's you know this, this is why you know, 295 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: look a lot of law enforcement common sense and when 296 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: and it comes down to training and when you you 297 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: aren't aren't talking to one another, and or your police 298 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: officers or agents are not well trained or not well intentioned, 299 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: and that can happen too. I mean, look, we've done 300 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 2: I wish I hadn't had to do it, but we've 301 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: done some cases involving police officers right here in Rhode Island. 302 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: You know, those situations can be chaotic and they really 303 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: require strong, knowledgeable professional leadership. 304 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: While you're on this, let me just interrupted. But police 305 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: make mistakes, and when they do, we don't say, well 306 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: they get rid of the police. We don't say defund 307 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: the Providence police. But they made in arrest police make. 308 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, no, you're right. Gee, you 309 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: know you and I had this conversation with a defund 310 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: the police bid three years ago. Now look you need look. 311 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: ICE was well led by my former US attorney colleague, 312 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: sarahcel Dania down In. She was a US attorney in Dallas. 313 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 2: She became the head of ICE under President Obama. She 314 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 2: did an outstanding dob We had, you know, we had 315 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: an ICE agency that was acting professionally inappropriately and you 316 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: didn't see the kind of you didn't see the kind 317 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: of scenes that you've seen in Minneapolis. It's not about 318 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: getting rid of an agency. It's about making sure that 319 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 2: people in those agencies, as many of them as you 320 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: can possibly get there, hopefully all of them know what 321 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: they're doing, are being professional, not letting emotion get into 322 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 2: their work, and that they're well led at every level 323 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: of the organization. And from what I've seen from what's 324 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 2: happening in Minneapolis, it doesn't seem like the leadership is 325 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: all that good, which is why it seems a President 326 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 2: Trump is now going in a different direction with respect 327 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: to that leadership. 328 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: Tony John I got a hold of there. We discussed 329 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: that a little more. I'll leave the hospitals for another day. 330 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: I know that's yet to be resolved in a few 331 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: other topics, but we'll have you back. Thanks for coming 332 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: on now. 333 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 2: Of course, take care of you two.