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Speaker 1: The president of the AFL CEO is Patter Crowley.

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Speaker 2: Pat thanks for joining me my pleasure.

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Speaker 3: Dan, thank you, I read it.

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Speaker 1: You can extrapolate tell me why you felt this resolution

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Speaker 1: was important too, you know, write and approve.

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Speaker 3: You know, the first thing that came to mind Dan

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Speaker 3: over the weekend was not me as as a labor

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Speaker 3: leader or anything else. I saw what happened on TV

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Speaker 3: as a grandfather and a father, and I can't believe

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Speaker 3: that my six month old grandson is going to grow

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Speaker 3: up in a country where the federal government and armed

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Speaker 3: agents can summarily execute someone on the streets of Minneapolis

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Speaker 3: for protesting. You know, this has to stop. It has

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Speaker 3: to stop now. And we might be a small state

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Speaker 3: on the East coast, but we wanted to make sure

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Speaker 3: our union siblings in Minnesota knew we have their back,

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Speaker 3: but also to make sure that the people of Rhode

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Speaker 3: Island know that the AFL CIO and the labor movement

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Speaker 3: is going to stand up to this no matter what

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Speaker 3: it takes.

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Speaker 1: The folks in Washington are obviously immersed in a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of decisions that are pending here, including funding ICE.

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Speaker 1: You you refer to that in your in your document.

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Speaker 2: What's your ear to.

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Speaker 3: The ground on that, Well, my ear to the ground

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Speaker 3: is that I hear a lot from my affiliate local leaders.

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Speaker 3: I mean my phone blew up on Saturday, like I'm

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Speaker 3: sure yours did. Where my local leaders, especially the younger ones,

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Speaker 3: are you know, just incensed about what's going on, and

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Speaker 3: they want to make sure that we send the message

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Speaker 3: loud and clear to our congressional delegation, who are our allies.

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Speaker 3: Let's not be let's not you know, miswords of stand

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Speaker 3: lockstep with our congressional delegation on so many things. But

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Speaker 3: we wanted everyone in the state, including our elected leaders,

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Speaker 3: to know we think a stand has to be made.

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Speaker 1: Well, we've got a short term bill that provides funding

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Speaker 1: only through Friday.

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Speaker 2: That is part of.

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Speaker 1: Some hop skipping a jump type of hopscotchy type of

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Speaker 1: construct that we've got in right now. To be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, I haven't followed exactly where we are with

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Speaker 1: government opening closing in the shutdown that is kind of murmuring.

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Speaker 1: And we've got another round of of shutdown that is

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Speaker 1: that is due here because the first extension was only

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Speaker 1: a few months long. So you've got you've got the

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Speaker 1: argument about ice and homeland security funding in general, which

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Speaker 1: I think is going to be the main sticking point

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Speaker 1: of an extension.

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Speaker 2: Correct, correct, And yeah, I mean yeah.

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Speaker 1: So no, no, so it just it it's it's amazing

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Speaker 1: to me how things change and what becomes the key

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Speaker 1: resolvable argument the funding of the government and the controversies

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Speaker 1: that surrounded that. Come the end of the year, we're

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Speaker 1: all about the extension of the Obama healthcare credits being extended,

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Speaker 1: and so you've got you've you've got people all across

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Speaker 1: this country that are slowly getting into a situation where

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Speaker 1: they're now going to be in the second billing cycle

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Speaker 1: of health insurance that is through the roof for them.

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Speaker 1: And this whole immigration situation and this Minneapolis centered horror

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Speaker 1: show and these two losses of life, and now the

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Speaker 1: understandable and righteous politics that are coming from it are

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Speaker 1: now going to dominate whether or not we continue to

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Speaker 1: fund the government.

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Speaker 2: And that that which a.

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Speaker 1: Couple of that which a couple of months ago was

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Speaker 1: was was was the hanging Chad, if you will, is forgotten.

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Speaker 3: The It's very clear to me that the federal government

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Speaker 3: in Donald Trump wants to keep Americans sick or and scared,

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Speaker 3: and that is no way for a democracy to function.

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Speaker 3: I mean to think that we have people in Rhode

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Speaker 3: Island getting double triple digit increases in their health insurance,

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Speaker 3: that we have people scared to leave their houses because

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Speaker 3: of what the federal government and their armed, masked agents

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Speaker 3: are doing. You know, whether or not it takes another

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Speaker 3: shutdown of the government to bring some resolution to this,

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Speaker 3: or at least some progress to it. Christy Gnomes should

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Speaker 3: be impeached and she should be fired. You know this

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Speaker 3: guy bo Veno marching around the streets of Minneapolis looking

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Speaker 3: like some you know cause playing you know, Stormtrooper straight

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Speaker 3: out of like a Star Wars ripoff. It's just embarrassing

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Speaker 3: to us as a country, and we might not be

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Speaker 3: able to make a big impact here in Rhode Island,

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Speaker 3: but we wanted to make sure that everyone in this

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Speaker 3: country knows Rhode Islanders are not satisfied with what's happening

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Speaker 3: and are willing to fight to make sure our rights

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Speaker 3: are protected.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like because there's so many different spending

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Speaker 1: bills that are kind of spread out this time around,

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Speaker 1: that a government shut down the legs of which we

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Speaker 1: were facing last time around.

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Speaker 2: Isn't going to materialize.

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Speaker 1: Well, well we didn't experience it for you know, a

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Speaker 1: matter of time. But it looks like this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be more piecemeal. But you've got these individual decisions have

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Speaker 1: to be made about about separate funding issues, and this

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Speaker 1: and this ICE funding is is in homeland security and generals.

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Speaker 2: It is just front and center, and it is.

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Speaker 1: It's uncanny, it's it's it's mind blowing. We don't have

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Speaker 1: the vocabulary to actually wrap around and really capture how

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Speaker 1: unreal it is to be talking about, Hey, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: pull ICE funding. Oh, we're gonna pull homeland security funding.

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Speaker 1: Democrats are the border line. We're going to do that

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Speaker 1: because of what's happening in Minneapolis. The idea that any party, Democrat, Republican,

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Speaker 1: or anything on an independent level, that anybody would be

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Speaker 1: in a position where they want to argue that homeland security,

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Speaker 1: law enforcement, those kinds of places where we spend our

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Speaker 1: tax payer money will.

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Speaker 2: Be defunded.

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Speaker 1: Again is a horror show. It's a horror show. I'm

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Speaker 1: not arguing with you, by the way, I'm experience. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm experiencing. I'm trying to get my hands, mind head

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Speaker 1: around the idea that we're in this place.

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Speaker 3: It's been incredibly frustrating to watch how the narratives have

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Speaker 3: taken place and how people, especially in the on the right,

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Speaker 3: are talking about these issues. I mean, these are human lives.

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Speaker 3: The homeland security was about protecting us from our enemies abroad.

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Speaker 3: Homeland security has turned into making sure that Americans are

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Speaker 3: scared of their own lives with armed, massed agents. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you're right, it's hard to put words to it. Cowardly

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Speaker 3: is one, terrifying is another. I mean I'm scared. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm not afraid to admit it. You know, I've been

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Speaker 3: around the block, as you know, Dan, and I've done

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Speaker 3: you know, I like to think of myself as a pretty,

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Speaker 3: you know, strong willed individual. I'm scared for what I see.

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Speaker 3: I'm scared for myself. I'm scared for my kids. I'm

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Speaker 3: scared for my family, and I'm scared most importantly for

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Speaker 3: Rhode Island.

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Speaker 1: What scares you?

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Speaker 3: You never know who's going to come around the corner next.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing that that's what this is generating. They're

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Speaker 3: making us afraid of people that we just don't know

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Speaker 3: what they're going to do. They're making us afraid of

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Speaker 3: law enforcement. We represent law enforcement officers. They do a

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Speaker 3: great job protecting us. But what's happening is what ICE

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Speaker 3: is doing is making people scared. They're making them scared

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Speaker 3: to go to courthouses. They're making them scared to go

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Speaker 3: to schools, They're making them scared to go to health facilities.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we need to do things in this state.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a great idea if we could figure

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Speaker 3: out how we can do virtual court hearings so that

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Speaker 3: people don't feel like they can just get barreled over

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Speaker 3: by ICE agents when they're going into court. You know,

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Speaker 3: we need to make sure that people don't feel scared

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Speaker 3: to walk down the street.

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Speaker 1: Well, there we're talking about Pack Crowley from the NFL CEO.

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Speaker 1: The organization just put out a resolution that was unanimously

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Speaker 1: approved by your board etce True.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, unanimously approved.

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Speaker 1: You know, calling for a whole bunch of things, including

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Speaker 1: our own delegation to vote to defund ICE until some

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Speaker 1: of the conditions that are in the resolution are met.

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Speaker 1: You know, Pat, I gotta tell you as I'm listening

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Speaker 1: to you discuss the the anxiety and the fear and

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Speaker 1: some alternatives to say the court cases. It reminds me

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Speaker 1: of COVID a little bit, right, So let's do some

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Speaker 1: let's do some online stuff so the people don't have

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Speaker 1: to travel or be next to each other. There are

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Speaker 1: people who are listening to you speak, thinking, come on, man,

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Speaker 1: you're a white guy and so so enough with the

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Speaker 1: theatrics and that and and so and so and so.

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Speaker 1: When I when I when I, when I say that

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Speaker 1: to you, I say it not not from my perspective

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Speaker 1: or point of view, but projecting what I know is

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Speaker 1: is on the other side of the radio in in

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Speaker 1: some spaces.

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Speaker 2: But here's the here's the tragic.

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Speaker 1: Irony of this. The two people who have been killed

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Speaker 1: are white as white can be.

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Speaker 3: They are right, they're middle class white Americans. And it

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Speaker 3: just shows that these people are out of control and

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Speaker 3: are willing to take extreme measures to enforce the terrorism

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Speaker 3: that they're inflicting on us as a nation.

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Speaker 1: We just don't well, just don't protest anything. And you're

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Speaker 1: what do you get to be worried about?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing, Dan, that's what they really want.

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Speaker 3: They want us to stay home, They want us to

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Speaker 3: stay inside. They don't want us to raise our voices.

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Speaker 3: Can you think of anything more Unamerican than being afraid

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Speaker 3: to go to a protest, to stand up to your

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Speaker 3: government to exercise your First Amendment rights. I mean, that's

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Speaker 3: what we fought a revolution for. And to think that

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Speaker 3: our government is saying, just, you know, just let us

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Speaker 3: do our job and everything will be fine, That's not

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Speaker 3: the way it works in America. We have the right

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Speaker 3: to petitionate our government for the redress of grievances, and

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Speaker 3: we will do it and by any means that we

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Speaker 3: have at our disposal, peacefully and showing people that we

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Speaker 3: can stand up to this terrorism that's being inflicted upon us.

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Speaker 1: I would deal well, ironically, it was it was a

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Speaker 1: it was a completely ill prepared, unprovoked, undocumented assertion that

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Speaker 1: it was terrorism that caused mister Pretty to lose his life.

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Speaker 1: This domestic terrorism thing that they've coined, that Renee Good

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Speaker 1: was a domestic terrorist, Alex Pretty was a domestic terrorist.

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Speaker 1: Come on, man, we've had domestic terrorism, we've had we've

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Speaker 1: had we've had domestic terrorism. Those people aren't domestic terrorists.

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Speaker 1: And the gas lighting has gotten to the point where

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Speaker 1: I don't I think we're gonna have to get a

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Speaker 1: new word that that actually exceeds what gaslighting is.

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Speaker 2: It's just amazing, it really is.

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Speaker 3: I mean it, and it goes without saying that. You know,

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Speaker 3: Alex pretty was a union member. He was a member

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Speaker 3: of the American Federation of Government Employees. He was an

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Speaker 3: ICU nurse caring for veterans. I mean, this is someone

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Speaker 3: that we should hold up as an example of what

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Speaker 3: our community should be, someone who serves others every single day.

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Speaker 3: And I saw those videos and one of the most

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Speaker 3: disturbing parts of it, Dan, I saw one of the

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Speaker 3: ice agents running away from that like like a little

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Speaker 3: kid who got caught break in a window in a

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Speaker 3: baseball game.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the guy that's got the gun.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the guy who the silver the silver jacket

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Speaker 1: guy grabs the gun and rolls out of there. No

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Speaker 1: one's done any any kind of reporting because I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there it's all part of the investigation whatever that is

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Speaker 1: and whoever's doing it.

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Speaker 2: Of Where where did that guy go with that gun?

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Speaker 2: I mean, where did he go? He?

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe he shot and ran. He's not the

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Speaker 1: guy who shot. If you look at the video, there's

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Speaker 1: you know, video version number twenty six on this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: You can you can see that the guy closer to

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Speaker 1: mister Purdy's head is the one that fired, and then

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Speaker 1: they all fired. And the idea, by the way, that

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Speaker 1: that that they did a gang land shooting on him afterwards.

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Speaker 2: Is just what, like what is my blow that we're

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Speaker 2: looking at? Like, what is that? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And again it's designed to be terrifying. It's designed to

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Speaker 3: make everyday Americans afraid to stand up for themselves because

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Speaker 3: they want to send a message this is what happens

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Speaker 3: if you disagree with us, And there's nothing more Unamerican

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Speaker 3: than that.

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Speaker 1: Let me check traffic for thirty seconds ago one or

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Speaker 1: two more questions for Pat Crowley AFLCI. You know they

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Speaker 1: put out a resolution today on this Minneapolis tragedy number two.

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Speaker 1: I guess I got a couple of questions about protests. Look,

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Speaker 1: the labor movement is, you know, it's culturally close to

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Speaker 1: the idea of exercising First Amendment rights. Picket lines and

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Speaker 1: other kinds of things which we have, you know, normalized

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Speaker 1: in American society. Sometimes they are undiscernible, in discernible, sometimes

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Speaker 1: they are a major nuisance, but depending on the situation.

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Speaker 1: But they're designed to draw tensions to negotiations and labor

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Speaker 1: rights and all the things.

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Speaker 2: I don't have to.

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Speaker 1: Explain all of that. That's that's going to be one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why an AFL CIO chapter would find

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Speaker 1: a real problem with all of this. I mean, these

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Speaker 1: are distant cousins the kind of protests that we're talking

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Speaker 1: about here in Minneapolis, where everyday citizens are coming out,

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Speaker 1: if not to protest, to observe. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: it's a very different There's a big difference between the

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Speaker 1: protests and observation. And it seems to me that this

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Speaker 1: guy was more observing than he was protesting.

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Speaker 2: So you got that too.

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Speaker 1: But you know, talk to me about about this idea

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Speaker 1: of you know, public protests. It must it must be

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Speaker 1: dear to the labor movements anxiety over.

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Speaker 2: This whole thing.

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Speaker 3: It does. It runs right through our blood as labor activists.

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Speaker 3: To be able to protest publicly, to let those in

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Speaker 3: power know that we have issues with what they're doing,

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Speaker 3: and to think that that's under threat in twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: six by our own government scares me and it bothers.

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Speaker 3: It really does, and it scares the members of the

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Speaker 3: unions that I represent and we want to make sure

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Speaker 3: that the federal government knows that they're not going to

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Speaker 3: intimidate us. We'll be scared, but we're still going to

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Speaker 3: be out there protesting. Are you members are going to

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Speaker 3: be trained to be ready?

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Speaker 1: Is Rhode Island alone here? Are you looking up with

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Speaker 1: a national resolution here or other states?

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Speaker 2: What's happening?

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Speaker 3: So I've seen other states put out statements already over

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Speaker 3: the weekend and today, and I've been in touch with

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Speaker 3: my counterparts in New England about preparing for a regional response.

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Speaker 3: I spoke with my sister Cynthia Finny, who's the main

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Speaker 3: state AFLCL president, on Friday because they're about to endure

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Speaker 3: or are enduring the same kind of onslaught from ICE,

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Speaker 3: just to say we're at what give us a call,

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Speaker 3: whatever you need us to do with their And I

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Speaker 3: think we've got to such a really start to get

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Speaker 3: ramped up here in Rhode Island in New England to

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Speaker 3: make sure that ICE doesn't think they can just roll

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Speaker 3: in here without knowing that we're going to be on the.

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Speaker 2: Streets to look the fl CIO.

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Speaker 1: I say this respectfully, is it's kind of this you know,

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Speaker 1: you guys are corporate protesters in the sense that it's

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Speaker 1: part of your culture. It's been something that you know,

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Speaker 1: you've had to use as a tool from for one

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Speaker 1: union to the next, from time to time, depending on

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Speaker 1: how the new cycle is moving. But you're also listen,

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Speaker 1: fl CEO runs like a business. Labor unions at a

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Speaker 1: high level run like businesses. They just have different represent

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Speaker 1: different I don't know the personnel and and sometimes have

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Speaker 1: different goals and say the business community does. But my

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Speaker 1: point here is that with the fl CAO stepping up

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Speaker 1: in Rhode Island, if you grow this thing, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like an establishment organization stepping up here. It's not

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Speaker 1: just democratic influence, it's it's it's a wider net than that.

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Speaker 3: I one hundred percent agree. And you know, there's been

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Speaker 3: a lot of great work done in Rhode Island already

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Speaker 3: with some of the immigration defense work and the Indivisible

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Speaker 3: Group and some of our individual unions. But we thought,

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Speaker 3: just like you said, Dan, you know, we're a big

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Speaker 3: player in this state. We've got eighty thousand members, and

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Speaker 3: we thought it was time to lend our voice, our organization,

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Speaker 3: our wealth, and our power to this conversation and to

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Speaker 3: these actions that are going to be necessary.

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Speaker 1: In some What do you want to pull off the

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Speaker 1: demand that you're delegation not support ice funding.

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Speaker 3: Well, we've shared the resolution with all four members of

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Speaker 3: the delegation this afternoon. I've been in touch with their

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Speaker 3: offices already, and we hopefully will find a way to

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Speaker 3: make sure that they do not vote to support any

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Speaker 3: more funding for ice A DHS until we figure out

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Speaker 3: how we can move this country forward in a more

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Speaker 3: productive web.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's not that's not specific enough, I think

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Speaker 1: for a no vote. I mean, this seems like you

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Speaker 1: want something to happen. Christy Noman has to quit. Obviously

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Speaker 1: you want to impeach, but she's got to quit. There's

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Speaker 1: got to be there seems to be a little rattle

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Speaker 1: of of of a concept on good faith here coming

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Speaker 1: from the administration. Beveno's out, Holman's in. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: whether that's an upgrade. But we'll see.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, so.

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess we'll I guess we'll see how things

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Speaker 3: unfold over the next couple of days. You know, the

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Speaker 3: important thing for our leadership and our members was to

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Speaker 3: get on record and saying this is what the labor

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Speaker 3: movement in Rhode Island.

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Speaker 1: Things should happen, all right, Pat, thank you, appreciate the time.

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Speaker 1: Pat Crowley, who's the president of the a fl CIO