WEBVTT - I'm Short On Vim 0:00:09.390 --> 0:00:13.230 Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the 0:00:13.270 --> 0:00:17.509 George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. 0:00:17.690 --> 0:00:19.030 Armstrong and Getty. 0:00:19.190 --> 0:00:24.890 And now, here's Armstrong and Getty. 0:00:25.610 --> 0:00:35.180 The problem with the war on Canada is that we 0:00:35.300 --> 0:00:39.020 don't hate Canada to begin with. And so they've come 0:00:39.050 --> 0:00:41.640 up with, the administration has some new posters to get 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.920 us to be angry enough at the Canadians. Would you 0:00:44.940 --> 0:00:48.360 like to see some of the, I thought you would. 0:00:48.380 --> 0:00:55.540 Canadian geese crashing our planes into the Hudson since 2009. Nickelback, 0:00:55.700 --> 0:01:05.870 never forget who did this to us. Canadian bacon is ham. 0:01:05.950 --> 0:01:11.890 If they'll lie about this, what won't they lie about? 0:01:11.940 --> 0:01:15.580 Canadians are so nice. What's so nice about stealing Katy Perry? 0:01:18.580 --> 0:01:20.620 That's pretty good, the Canadian bacon. 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:22.260 It's more a service than a theft. 0:01:22.780 --> 0:01:25.030 The lie about that, the lie about anything. 0:01:25.709 --> 0:01:28.670 Wartime propaganda posters against Canada. 0:01:29.490 --> 0:01:30.210 Oh, boy. 0:01:30.610 --> 0:01:33.780 These are odd times. Mm-hmm. So the fabulous James Lindsay 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.760 was writing the other day about a number of articles 0:01:36.860 --> 0:01:39.709 that have appeared in the press about lack of affordability 0:01:39.770 --> 0:01:43.110 in Gen Z, talking about how I can't afford a 0:01:43.150 --> 0:01:44.870 burrito or I can't afford to go out on a 0:01:44.910 --> 0:01:48.290 date and blah, blah, blah. And he says if you 0:01:48.410 --> 0:01:50.540 want to talk about affordability for real or if you 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:52.900 want to wax psychotic about debt, you have to talk 0:01:52.940 --> 0:01:55.660 about the real anchor issue, which is student loan debt. 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:57.640 And to do this, you have to talk about the 0:01:57.700 --> 0:02:01.040 absolute failure of government manipulation of the higher education market 0:02:01.060 --> 0:02:04.990 and how our universities– did not just transform ideologically, but 0:02:05.050 --> 0:02:09.770 sold out generations because of sweet, sweet government-backed monies. And 0:02:10.010 --> 0:02:12.010 he says the biggest important change in this story is 0:02:12.050 --> 0:02:14.590 that in the 90s, under Bill Clinton's tenure, and by 0:02:14.630 --> 0:02:16.570 the way, it's worth pointing out, so much of this 0:02:16.750 --> 0:02:19.239 is the road to hell being paved with good intentions. 0:02:20.540 --> 0:02:23.130 Because when people say, hey, there's a problem with it, 0:02:23.139 --> 0:02:24.860 you've heard that saying a million times, but have you 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.820 ever really thought about it? Because when people say, hey, hey, hey, 0:02:27.860 --> 0:02:31.650 there's a problem with what you're doing, You reply, hey, 0:02:31.750 --> 0:02:34.470 my intentions are great. What we're doing here is good 0:02:34.870 --> 0:02:38.680 and important. And it neutralizes criticism. And that's how you 0:02:38.700 --> 0:02:43.060 get to hell. Anyway, 90s under Bill Clinton, the federal 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.660 government decided to underwrite federal student loans in order to 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.540 get a lot more people to go to college, which 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.679 opened a gigantic can of worms. The direct effect of 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.100 this policy was that while private lenders would originate the loans, 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.970 the federal government would assume their risk of losses. And 0:02:58.130 --> 0:03:01.170 if you know anything about banking, risk of loss is 0:03:01.210 --> 0:03:06.250 the primary incentive lenders have for not making bad loans. 0:03:07.070 --> 0:03:09.709 So the government, federal government, stepped in and removed that 0:03:10.110 --> 0:03:13.240 rather important market incentive. It's exactly the same thing that 0:03:13.300 --> 0:03:17.380 happened prior to the great crash of 07-08 because they 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:22.200 ordered the banks to lend anybody money that they had 0:03:22.260 --> 0:03:24.220 to to achieve certain racial quotas. 0:03:24.580 --> 0:03:24.780 Anyway. 0:03:26.430 --> 0:03:28.610 So prior to this, you had to convince the bank 0:03:28.650 --> 0:03:31.070 that your education was actually a solid investment in your 0:03:31.130 --> 0:03:35.560 future economically, not spiritually. OK, and you might have to 0:03:35.620 --> 0:03:37.620 convince them that you're likely to be a good student 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.420 choosing a solid major. You'd make enough money to pay 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.680 back the loan and then just fill out the paperwork. 0:03:44.100 --> 0:03:49.080 But now they've removed the disincentives. So as he says. 0:03:50.150 --> 0:03:52.750 What exactly is this can of worms they opened? Something 0:03:52.790 --> 0:03:55.500 like the total destruction of our society in 30 years 0:03:55.540 --> 0:03:58.280 or thereabouts. It's actually difficult to know where to start, 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.380 but the financial situation is probably the easiest one. What 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.800 actually happened is that a lot more people intended to 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.720 go to college, and colleges had to, or at least 0:04:06.740 --> 0:04:10.020 were incentivized to, make expansions to absorb them. That sounds 0:04:10.060 --> 0:04:12.240 reasonable enough, but it turns out to have been a disaster. 0:04:12.810 --> 0:04:14.410 Lurking in the background of this problem, by the way, 0:04:14.450 --> 0:04:17.469 is that by the 1990s, we'd already seen a dramatic 0:04:17.610 --> 0:04:21.390 leftward shift of the university as an institution. There are 0:04:21.510 --> 0:04:25.550 lots of dumb leftist majors that amount to anti-Americanism, critical 0:04:25.610 --> 0:04:27.089 theory of a dozen stripes or so. 0:04:27.170 --> 0:04:29.210 And when you said expansion, I wondered, like, how many 0:04:29.430 --> 0:04:33.109 majors got added at this time that never existed before 0:04:33.170 --> 0:04:35.060 that are just worthless? 0:04:36.010 --> 0:04:38.680 Well, because you had, and you're absolutely right, because you 0:04:38.710 --> 0:04:42.360 had thousands now, hundreds of millions of students waving their 0:04:42.380 --> 0:04:45.800 federal money around saying, I'm no good in engineering or 0:04:45.860 --> 0:04:48.820 business or whatever, and even liberal arts is a bit 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:53.260 much for me. How about women's studies or ethnic studies 0:04:53.380 --> 0:04:57.539 or something like that? Softball leftist majors. And he points 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.880 out that the dozen or so critical theory majors expanded 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.690 to many, many more and captured especially the colleges of education. 0:05:06.150 --> 0:05:08.349 which is especially bad because that's where teachers come from. 0:05:08.750 --> 0:05:11.510 But anyway, he mentions that absorbing these students required a 0:05:11.550 --> 0:05:14.729 few things. Some were infrastructure changes. You need to be 0:05:14.770 --> 0:05:17.150 able to house them, sit them in classrooms, etc. Some 0:05:17.180 --> 0:05:21.980 were administrative changes. They needed management. A lot of the 0:05:22.020 --> 0:05:24.179 kids weren't cut out to major in the hard stuff, 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:28.430 and so leftist activist majors started to be created, fill up, 0:05:28.460 --> 0:05:31.190 and expand. Remember, no one has to prove to the 0:05:31.250 --> 0:05:34.210 lender that they're majoring in something with good career prospects 0:05:34.250 --> 0:05:37.289 anymore to get the money. So the tuition rates started 0:05:37.310 --> 0:05:40.089 to climb massively, mostly as a result of the first 0:05:40.130 --> 0:05:44.020 two changes, and far more infrastructure than administration. So the 0:05:44.060 --> 0:05:47.460 colleges were catering primarily to 17-year-olds who were picking a 0:05:47.500 --> 0:05:51.190 school and trying to retain upward to maybe 22-year-olds. This 0:05:51.250 --> 0:05:54.150 is not an age demographic, especially by the later 90s, 0:05:54.410 --> 0:05:57.990 that was famously known for choosing colleges based on academic priorities, 0:05:58.270 --> 0:06:02.170 career priorities, etc. In fact, they mostly select colleges based 0:06:02.210 --> 0:06:06.219 on anything but academics and future employability, especially when the 0:06:06.260 --> 0:06:11.700 incoming base is expanded to include potentially roughly everyone. So 0:06:11.740 --> 0:06:12.560 they wanted football. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:13.180 Fun. 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.900 Nice dorms, student services, gyms, modernized facilities, etc. And those 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.640 features became the primary elements by which colleges started to 0:06:20.700 --> 0:06:24.820 compete with each other for attracting and keeping students. And 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:26.360 you can see. 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:27.730 Where that goes. That is a rich society, man. That 0:06:27.790 --> 0:06:32.590 is one rich society where you've got a very large 0:06:32.890 --> 0:06:38.150 segment of the population, the most affluent generally, that sends 0:06:38.190 --> 0:06:42.229 their kid off to a four-year... Little kind of vacation 0:06:42.410 --> 0:06:45.160 under the guise of college where a lot of it 0:06:45.210 --> 0:06:48.800 is just because we've done the stats before. Barely going 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:54.440 to class, barely doing homework. Hanging out with your friends, 0:06:54.980 --> 0:06:57.120 having a good time for four years. I mean, you're 0:06:57.140 --> 0:06:59.460 you're pretty you're a pretty cush society if you can 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.659 do that with your young people for 18 from 18 0:07:01.660 --> 0:07:03.430 to 22. 0:07:03.430 --> 0:07:05.490 And Mr. Lindsay tips his cap to the fact that 0:07:05.510 --> 0:07:07.390 a lot of this was very, very good intentions, the 0:07:07.410 --> 0:07:10.490 baby boomer generation, the idea that if you go to college, 0:07:10.530 --> 0:07:12.550 you can improve your life and have a better job 0:07:12.590 --> 0:07:14.990 and a better life than your parents did, etc. First 0:07:15.030 --> 0:07:16.710 generation to go to school, that sort of thing is 0:07:16.750 --> 0:07:19.810 very honorable and good. But then he points out, combined 0:07:19.850 --> 0:07:22.230 with the federal money, many of them stumbled into college 0:07:22.270 --> 0:07:24.350 into their favored majors, some with an eye on that 0:07:24.470 --> 0:07:27.150 good job they wanted to go to college to get, 0:07:27.510 --> 0:07:29.750 only to find out that math is really hard, and 0:07:29.770 --> 0:07:31.700 there's still a college degree at the end of the 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.800 new women's studies department. Others majored in something productive enough, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.360 but in total ignorance of the actual job market on 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.500 the other side. And he gives a bunch of examples 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.940 of that sort of thing. In servicing these natural but 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.500 ultimately adolescent mismatched priorities. 0:07:47.090 --> 0:07:49.890 What in the world does that sound? What is that, Michael? 0:07:50.870 --> 0:07:52.230 Whose studio is that in? 0:07:52.250 --> 0:07:53.990 I think that's in my studio. 0:07:54.250 --> 0:07:55.290 Is that a smoke alarm? 0:07:56.030 --> 0:07:56.690 I don't know. 0:07:57.690 --> 0:07:59.030 What do you think that is, Kenny? 0:07:59.090 --> 0:07:59.870 That's a smoke alarm. 0:08:00.540 --> 0:08:00.830 It is? 0:08:00.860 --> 0:08:01.500 Yeah. 0:08:01.980 --> 0:08:03.130 Or a carbon monoxide. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.400 Why does your smoke alarm sound like somebody playing a. 0:08:06.460 --> 0:08:07.940 It's a carbon monoxide alarm. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:08.280 Yeah. 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:09.680 I'm probably going to die soon. 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:11.660 Okay. Hold your. 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.720 Oh! God, that's... Perhaps I'll deal with that and we'll 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.280 return after a brief commercial break, as it's going to 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.180 make everybody insane, including me. 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:21.060 How do you end up. 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:22.600 With too much carbon monoxide? 0:08:23.140 --> 0:08:24.360 I gotta go deal with it. 0:08:24.740 --> 0:08:25.160 I'll be back. 0:08:26.260 --> 0:08:28.870 I want to know about this. He's breeding cats or something. 0:08:28.940 --> 0:08:29.970 Something's going on in there. 0:08:30.070 --> 0:08:31.170 He's got marmots. 0:08:32.230 --> 0:08:37.250 And rabies donkeys. Anyway, we will get to that stuff. 0:08:37.350 --> 0:08:38.890 I ought to throw this in real quick before we 0:08:38.910 --> 0:08:43.550 take a break. So, um... The deliberations in the Lindsay 0:08:43.630 --> 0:08:48.970 Clancy trial... they said that they can't come to a verdict. 0:08:49.230 --> 0:08:50.849 And the judge said, you got to get back in 0:08:50.870 --> 0:08:52.750 there and get back to work. But they said they're 0:08:52.790 --> 0:08:53.730 unable to reach a unanimous verdict. 0:08:53.750 --> 0:08:55.890 Well, isn't that just a hung jury? I mean, if 0:08:55.910 --> 0:08:57.819 they can't come to a verdict, you can't make them. 0:08:58.980 --> 0:09:01.060 Sometimes I, you know, you know way more about this 0:09:01.100 --> 0:09:02.480 than I do because your dad was a judge. But 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:04.760 I don't know how many times you can say work 0:09:04.780 --> 0:09:07.059 harder before they say, look, we're working as hard as 0:09:07.100 --> 0:09:09.849 we can. We can't. So we do actually have a 0:09:09.929 --> 0:09:15.590 quote from, I think, her lawyer coming up. He was 0:09:15.690 --> 0:09:18.480 asked about this and what this might mean, so we'll 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:20.300 get that on the air also. First, I want to 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.620 tell you about this. If you think financial planning is 0:09:23.660 --> 0:09:27.260 just for the suit and tie crowd, think again. We 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.540 are Armstrong and Getty for Blue Collar Dollar. We're talking 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.040 to small business owners, farmers, hardworking people who build this 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.430 country but often get ignored by Wall Street. And you 0:09:35.450 --> 0:09:38.110 don't think the kind of people that talk about, you know, 0:09:38.130 --> 0:09:40.809 your financial future are the kind of people you want 0:09:40.830 --> 0:09:43.699 to hang around. Blue Collar Dollar changes the game, providing 0:09:43.770 --> 0:09:46.580 high-level retirement strategies for men and women who actually do 0:09:46.620 --> 0:09:50.280 the heavy lifting. No jargon, no corporate fluff, just straight 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.620 talk and real respect for your hard-earned money. If you're 0:09:52.620 --> 0:09:54.590 55 years of age or older and you've put aside 0:09:54.630 --> 0:09:58.250 at least $ 250, 000 for retirement, Blue Collar Dollar has a 0:09:58.290 --> 0:10:00.540 special offer for you. Just pick up your phone. right now, 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.030 dial pound 250, say the keyword Blue Collar Dollar for 0:10:04.050 --> 0:10:07.630 your complimentary financial review for a licensed talent advisor. That's 0:10:07.690 --> 0:10:12.059 pound 250, keyword Blue Collar Dollar. Paid endorsement. Armstrong and 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.540 Getty are not Talon clients and receive compensation for promoting Talon, 0:10:15.580 --> 0:10:18.880 creating a conflict of interest. Investment advisory services offered through 0:10:18.900 --> 0:10:24.329 Talon LLC, a SEC registered investment advisor. For more additional disclosures, 0:10:24.370 --> 0:10:28.990 you can visit bluecollardollar.com. Paid for by Epic Financial. So 0:10:29.050 --> 0:10:31.230 what does it mean that the jury can't come to 0:10:31.390 --> 0:10:33.940 a conclusion? Well, they asked one of the lawyers involved 0:10:33.980 --> 0:10:37.530 and he gave his answer. For what that's worth, among 0:10:37.590 --> 0:10:39.650 other things on the way. And we'll figure out if 0:10:39.710 --> 0:10:42.490 Joe has died from carbon monoxide poisoning. Coming up next. 0:10:44.130 --> 0:10:56.920 Armstrong and Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show. 0:10:59.470 --> 0:11:01.370 What would a hung jury mean for Lindsay? 0:11:02.290 --> 0:11:02.750 Try it again. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.439 Jim Cruise will never drop it, that's for sure. How 0:11:06.460 --> 0:11:08.920 would she be in trial again? 0:11:09.620 --> 0:11:10.540 How would she be in court? 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.339 Emotionally, how would it affect her? 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:14.199 How would you be? 0:11:15.620 --> 0:11:17.349 Counselor, would you do the trial again if it's a 0:11:17.370 --> 0:11:22.130 hung jury? Anyway, that was the lawyer being asked, the 0:11:22.170 --> 0:11:27.490 lawyer for the mom who killed her kids, being asked 0:11:27.530 --> 0:11:30.390 about this whole, the jury can't come to a deliberation, 0:11:30.429 --> 0:11:31.829 they told the judge. The judge said, get back in 0:11:31.850 --> 0:11:35.530 there and get to work. Let's turn to our legal correspondent. 0:11:35.550 --> 0:11:38.680 He was a judge in the mean streets of Alameda County, 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.920 Calunicornia for years, now retired Larry Goodman. Judge Larry, how 0:11:42.940 --> 0:11:43.339 are you, sir? 0:11:44.380 --> 0:11:44.920 Doing well. 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.100 Okay, so the jury comes back and says, we can't. 0:11:48.140 --> 0:11:51.950 He's an idiot. They're idiots. No, we can't agree. No verdict. 0:11:52.010 --> 0:11:53.510 And the judge says, get back in there. 0:11:54.050 --> 0:11:54.270 Wow. 0:11:54.510 --> 0:11:55.450 How does that work? 0:11:56.390 --> 0:11:59.210 You definitely, after a trial this long, you send them 0:11:59.270 --> 0:12:02.849 back and Sometimes you'll fashion an instruction. They used to 0:12:02.870 --> 0:12:05.420 have what they called an Allen instruction, but they don't 0:12:05.540 --> 0:12:08.370 use that anymore. Very few judges use it. And you 0:12:08.390 --> 0:12:10.510 tell them, you know, we spent a lot of time. 0:12:10.550 --> 0:12:13.970 You need to go through each piece of evidence, each witness, 0:12:14.070 --> 0:12:17.309 go back and see if you can't reach your verdict. And, 0:12:17.690 --> 0:12:20.050 you know, you never know whether it's like one person 0:12:20.130 --> 0:12:23.089 that's just refusing to vote a certain way or whether 0:12:23.130 --> 0:12:26.100 it's divided equally, so you just send them back and 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:27.300 hope for the best. 0:12:27.580 --> 0:12:30.210 So they wouldn't tell the judge that? When you're a judge, 0:12:30.230 --> 0:12:31.990 you have no idea what's going on with the jury, 0:12:32.010 --> 0:12:36.270 so you wouldn't know if it's one knucklehead or if 0:12:36.370 --> 0:12:37.910 it's a 6-6? 0:12:39.110 --> 0:12:43.510 Generally, you don't know. Sometimes you'll ask them without saying 0:12:43.570 --> 0:12:47.689 which way it is, how are you divided? Like 9-3 0:12:47.770 --> 0:12:50.450 or whatever, but you can't say 9 for guilty, 3 0:12:50.450 --> 0:12:53.580 for not guilty. Sometimes you'll say, how are you divided? 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.040 And if they say, like, 11 to 1, then you 0:12:57.059 --> 0:13:00.780 start thinking there's this one person. And then, who knows, 0:13:00.860 --> 0:13:02.940 then four persons send you a note that says, we 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.559 have this one person that's not deliberating in good faith. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.920 And that creates a whole other can of worms. 0:13:08.090 --> 0:13:11.089 Now, I jack him a dope. Keep that in mind. 0:13:11.330 --> 0:13:13.770 What's a hung jury? What's a hung jury compared to 0:13:13.790 --> 0:13:14.250 what this is? 0:13:15.750 --> 0:13:18.210 Well, a hung jury is when they actually come out 0:13:18.230 --> 0:13:20.850 and say, there is no way that we can reach 0:13:20.929 --> 0:13:24.200 a verdict. We are hung. and then the judge declares 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:24.800 a mistrial. 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:26.760 So they're on their way to that. 0:13:26.940 --> 0:13:30.520 They're hung now. It's just not official yet. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.920 And then how many times can they say, we can't 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:36.960 come to a conclusion, and you can say, get back 0:13:37.020 --> 0:13:39.179 in there and work. Try harder. I mean, is there 0:13:39.210 --> 0:13:39.780 a limit? 0:13:40.660 --> 0:13:43.110 No, there isn't, really. I mean, at some point, you 0:13:43.130 --> 0:13:47.450 start creating your own chaos by making people go back 0:13:47.530 --> 0:13:50.610 and try to do the impossible, at least what's impossible 0:13:50.670 --> 0:13:54.720 in their mind. So You know, a couple of times maybe. 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.080 And you can tell by looking at the jury, if 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.750 it's like one or two people, when they come back in, 0:14:01.790 --> 0:14:03.830 the other jurors will start looking at them and stuff. 0:14:03.890 --> 0:14:07.650 And you can kind of read the room, but you 0:14:07.690 --> 0:14:08.290 just don't know. 0:14:08.610 --> 0:14:11.850 Well, we got this report from Aaron Katursky, ABC News, 0:14:11.910 --> 0:14:16.109 saying some jurors looked weary. So they're probably looking at 0:14:16.350 --> 0:14:19.780 pictures of strangled little kids, right? I mean, that would 0:14:19.820 --> 0:14:20.380 wear on you. 0:14:21.460 --> 0:14:23.420 Well, yeah, and plus they've been sitting there for a 0:14:23.460 --> 0:14:27.140 long time already looking at the pictures of strangled children 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.630 and hearing all the details, and they go into a 0:14:30.140 --> 0:14:33.310 small room with just the 12 of them and rehash 0:14:33.350 --> 0:14:37.310 the thing all over again. Let me jump in, Larry. 0:14:37.330 --> 0:14:40.490 You were the judge. I was on several juries. It 0:14:40.610 --> 0:14:45.350 is a long, frustrating, circular discussion for hours and hours 0:14:45.470 --> 0:14:47.970 and hours. That's why they look fatigued, because you want 0:14:48.010 --> 0:14:50.480 to be anywhere else but there after a little while. 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.120 They didn't want to be there in the first place, 0:14:53.180 --> 0:14:56.930 most of them. So, yeah, you're right. So, yeah, it is. 0:14:57.010 --> 0:15:00.210 I mean, you go around the table and everybody expresses, 0:15:00.270 --> 0:15:03.550 and it depends on who the foreperson is and how 0:15:03.710 --> 0:15:07.440 organized or how respected they are by the other jurors. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.380 It's just a great big black hole that you don't 0:15:11.420 --> 0:15:14.460 really know what goes on in there. It's like making sausage. 0:15:14.500 --> 0:15:16.420 You don't want to know how it comes out or 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.610 what goes into the ingredients as opposed to the final result. 0:15:20.700 --> 0:15:24.020 I'm not surprised that this is going on with this trial. 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:25.700 What's your thoughts on that? 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.870 I'm not surprised at all. I mean, considering the topic 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.950 of the trial, the three dead children, all the mental 0:15:34.970 --> 0:15:37.710 health issues and stuff, it would be very tough to 0:15:37.730 --> 0:15:41.190 get 12 people to say, yeah, this was premeditated first-degree murder. 0:15:41.690 --> 0:15:44.530 It's going to be at a very high bar. 0:15:44.790 --> 0:15:48.930 Well, even without that, I mean, unless Fox misled me 0:15:48.970 --> 0:15:50.770 this morning, I was watching that, and they were talking 0:15:50.810 --> 0:15:55.150 about all the different conclusions they could come to. Well, 0:15:55.170 --> 0:15:57.240 I mean, if it was just she's guilty of murder 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.020 or not, okay, that's an argument. But if you've got 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:05.480 to get into manslaughter versus second-degree versus guilty but guilty 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.520 mentally ill. I mean, now you're cutting it a lot thinner. 0:16:09.540 --> 0:16:11.150 I can see how it'd be very difficult. 0:16:12.070 --> 0:16:16.530 Well, that may be partially a judicially created problem. I 0:16:16.550 --> 0:16:19.330 still don't understand how you get to manslaughter with this case. 0:16:19.730 --> 0:16:22.190 And by throwing that instruction in there and making that 0:16:22.230 --> 0:16:25.479 a possible verdict, that may have caused even more problems 0:16:25.500 --> 0:16:28.140 because there may be people that don't want to really 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.960 find her guilty of first or second or first degree murder. 0:16:32.300 --> 0:16:33.860 Maybe second, they don't want her to go to a 0:16:34.540 --> 0:16:37.700 so they're trying to hang their hat on manslaughter, and 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.230 other jurors are probably going like, how do you even 0:16:40.260 --> 0:16:43.250 get there? So that may have been a problem he created. 0:16:43.870 --> 0:16:46.650 Right, so you could easily have three different camps in 0:16:46.670 --> 0:16:49.680 the jury room trying to convince others to come in 0:16:49.700 --> 0:16:51.400 their direction. Yeah, good luck with that. 0:16:51.460 --> 0:16:55.290 Well... I mean, theoretically, four first degree, second degree manslaughter, 0:16:55.700 --> 0:16:58.540 not guilty and not guilty by not guilty by reason 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:00.940 of insanity. I mean, you can go the whole gamut. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.960 Yes. Five different options, according to Fox and what you 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.060 just said. And yeah, I could see how you could 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.619 get into some pretty intricate discussions of what crosses the 0:17:10.660 --> 0:17:13.149 line from level two to level three or whatever. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:14.379 Yeah. Wow. 0:17:14.420 --> 0:17:14.560 Wow. 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:15.380 All right. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.479 They don't want to walk out. I'm sure the jury 0:17:17.500 --> 0:17:21.010 is feeling pressure of trying to do something. And that 0:17:21.030 --> 0:17:22.030 just makes it more tense. 0:17:23.130 --> 0:17:23.390 Yeah. 0:17:23.490 --> 0:17:27.230 Larry Goodman, retired judge for the Superior Court, Alameda County, California. Larry, 0:17:27.270 --> 0:17:28.909 great to talk to you again. Thanks for the insights. 0:17:29.810 --> 0:17:30.030 Sure. 0:17:30.050 --> 0:17:31.530 You guys take care. Thanks. 0:17:31.850 --> 0:17:32.070 Yeah. 0:17:32.090 --> 0:17:35.150 There's just there are too many variables in that math 0:17:35.210 --> 0:17:36.270 equation for a jury. 0:17:36.310 --> 0:17:38.810 That's all right. I mean, when you got that, was 0:17:38.890 --> 0:17:41.110 OJ just a straight up or down murder or not? 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.439 I don't think so. But anyway, if you got that, 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.020 then then you might have one of the scenarios like 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.479 you're presenting where you just got one holdout knucklehead who 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.900 can't deal with facts or something. But man, if you 0:17:53.940 --> 0:17:56.860 got five different choices, I could see getting into some 0:17:56.980 --> 0:18:00.070 serious conversations with some smart people who can deal with 0:18:00.109 --> 0:18:03.469 facts where it's no, I think this is second degree this. No, 0:18:03.510 --> 0:18:06.730 I think it's blah, blah. I mean, that's some you're slicing. 0:18:06.770 --> 0:18:07.869 It's a lot thinner. 0:18:08.570 --> 0:18:09.730 Oh, yeah. Wow. 0:18:09.810 --> 0:18:10.070 Wow. 0:18:10.190 --> 0:18:10.430 Wow. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:12.280 Terrible. 0:18:12.340 --> 0:18:13.600 That would be tiring. 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:21.949 Human beings do two things. They think too little, and 0:18:21.970 --> 0:18:22.810 they overthink. 0:18:23.030 --> 0:18:23.530 I know I do. 0:18:24.330 --> 0:18:24.590 Yeah. 0:18:25.350 --> 0:18:26.570 On almost every occasion. 0:18:26.990 --> 0:18:28.610 I think this case is an example of that. 0:18:29.250 --> 0:18:30.050 Overthinking, you think? 0:18:31.150 --> 0:18:35.170 Yeah. She killed three children. Period. 0:18:36.830 --> 0:18:43.570 Armstrong and Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show. 0:18:43.590 --> 0:18:52.500 People are going to want to know. 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.320 People have a right to know. 0:18:56.540 --> 0:18:59.100 Carbon monoxide alarm goes off. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.120 That was a smoke alarm, actually. Oh, okay. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:02.060 It wasn't a carbon monoxide. 0:19:02.780 --> 0:19:03.300 No smoke. 0:19:03.380 --> 0:19:06.399 It was a wayward alarm. My alarm's been very tense lately. 0:19:06.460 --> 0:19:10.070 It's anxious. It drinks too much Red Bull. No, I 0:19:10.130 --> 0:19:12.060 have no idea. Because they go off sometimes. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:13.800 I don't even know if I have a carbon monoxide 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:15.220 alarm in my house. 0:19:15.859 --> 0:19:19.090 I know we do because it's code, but you have to. 0:19:19.190 --> 0:19:19.889 You absolutely have to. 0:19:19.890 --> 0:19:21.210 I'm a renter, so I don't have any idea. 0:19:21.550 --> 0:19:22.150 Yeah. Anyway. 0:19:22.869 --> 0:19:24.870 Who knows? It was a fire alarm. 0:19:24.990 --> 0:19:25.170 Yes. 0:19:25.290 --> 0:19:30.300 When did carbon monoxide things become a... And what causes that? 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:30.679 I don't know. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:30.740 1998. 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:31.540 How often does that happen? 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.000 Oh, it's all the time. People go left and right. 0:19:36.890 --> 0:19:41.440 It doesn't happen much, but there are fatalities from it. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.179 It's terrible when it happens, but it's real. 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:44.020 I'm sure. 0:19:44.100 --> 0:19:45.140 Yeah, Katie? 0:19:45.869 --> 0:19:47.670 I will let you know that I have had several 0:19:48.170 --> 0:19:51.449 correspondence with listeners who alf. some alarm was going off 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:52.859