1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Eli Sherman is on the Seahawk Supply Hotline. The headline 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 1: is Rhode Island's population is growing, but not from the nursery. 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: We're up one point six percent. I'm gonna let him. 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: There's nothing like a group of guys like the Target 5 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: twelve investigative team that like charts and grafts more than 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: Eli Sherman and Ted Nesi maybe Tim whites out doing 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: the gangster stuff. 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: Good morning, Eli, Hey Sara, thanks for having me on. 9 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Oh, thanks for being here. So listen, we always say 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: we have a little over a million people, right, It's 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:32,639 Speaker 1: just an easy way to say it. And when we're 12 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: comparing ourselves to other states and budgets and all of that, what, 13 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: First of all, I want to know what made you 14 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: want to dig into this so hard? 15 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, the US Census Bureau, which is kind of 16 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: the gold standards for population data, at least from the 17 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 2: federal level, comes out with annual reports, and they did 18 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: one this year that just came out sort of with 19 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: written down numbers showing state level stuff this week and 20 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: you know it's five years through the decades, so it's 21 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: a significant benchmark. They do the Dice Senil Census every 22 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 2: ten years that people are familiar with because they get 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: people coming to their door or reaching out asking them 24 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: to fill out documents about who lives in their households 25 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 2: and whatnot. So this is sort of the halfway mark 26 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: where we can take a good look at what type 27 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: of growth we've been seeing over the past five years 28 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: based on these annual reports that the US Census Bureau does. 29 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: Okay, so we are up your number, say, total residents 30 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: rose one point six percent, So we're at one point 31 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: one million, just a little over that, right, and that's 32 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: just the last five years. That's where that growth comes. 33 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: From, right, So that is a five year picture. You know, 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: we were just around a million, just over a million 35 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty and now you know, up above the 36 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: one point one million mark, and and you know that 37 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: is the one point six percent growth that we've seen 38 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: over the last five years. Should note that that is, 39 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: you know, about half of what the United States has 40 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: seen overall, which increased three point one percent during that 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 2: same time period to about three hundred and forty two 42 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 2: million across the country. So the growth we're seeing in 43 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 2: Rhode Island is actually, you know, fairly slower than what 44 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: we're seeing nationwide, which is an important thing to keep 45 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: your eye on. 46 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: All right, so you say you wonder, okay, are more 47 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: people having children? No, across the country doesn't feel that 48 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: way or doesn't come you know, proven to that. We 49 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: obviously know that we had open borders for a while. 50 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: We throw in the last five years, you had the pandemic, 51 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: right COVID, so were people moving here from bigger cities. 52 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: But no, it seems like it might be the immigration peg. 53 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 54 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really fascinating sort of shift in demographics 55 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: if you're a number nerd like me and Ted and 56 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: anyone who likes watching these types of numbers shift, because 57 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: just as you mentioned, you know, Rhode Island is not 58 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: seeing growth from births because actually deaths have been outpacing 59 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: berths in Rhode Island over the past five years. Has 60 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: been about fifty seven thousand deaths versus fifty three berths. 61 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 2: So that's a you know, they call it the nerdy 62 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: word for it is a natural population decline of nearly 63 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: four thousand people. And so that growth, you got to 64 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: figure out where that's coming in. And the biggest driver 65 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: of that has actually been international migration. And the reason 66 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: that that term has used is because it captures both 67 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: legal immigrations, I think permanent residents, even people who are 68 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: moving from the United States to Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico 69 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: to the United States, along with the movement of military 70 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: members that are moving between the US and overseas, or 71 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,279 Speaker 2: any expats who might be moving back from living overseas. 72 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: So it captures a big number. And a lot of 73 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: people have been asking me, well, well, how many of 74 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 2: these of this international migration has been is illegal immigration? 75 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: People who are coming here illegally, and the sentence fier 76 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: actually does not count that. It doesn't account for legal 77 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: status in that number. And I've seen a number of 78 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: ranges out there from anywhere from like twenty to forty 79 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: percent of international migration. But those are just estimates that 80 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: are sort of national groups have tried to capture within 81 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 2: that data because the federal government doesn't actually ask for 82 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: legal status. 83 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting that we don't keep quote unquote they 84 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: don't ask for that, But yet there are always numbers 85 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: floating around with the federal government saying, you know, with 86 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: the open borders, we let an x amount of people, 87 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: So where's the why are we of balance? 88 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: With that. Yeah, so a really important thing to note 89 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 2: is that, you know, during the pandemic, the national birth 90 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: rate really plummeted. I mean it was the lowest I 91 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 2: think ever if not you know, historic lows, and that 92 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: sort of has maintained that level down there. And during 93 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: the Biden administration there was a real rapid growth in 94 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: international migration, people moving in across borders in the United States, 95 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: and then of course now under the Trump administration, with 96 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: his very aggressive anti immigration policies, that level, like it 97 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 2: almost I think it cut by more than half nationally. 98 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 2: And we experienced that as well in Rhode Island, where 99 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 2: our growth rate was going up, you know, from just 100 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 2: about zero point one percent during the pandemic up to 101 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: about zero point eight percent in twenty twenty four, and 102 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: then that slumped back down by half this past year, 103 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 2: which basically follows the national trend, as the flow of 104 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: international migration has really, really, really you know, slowed over 105 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 2: this past year of the Trump administration. Now it's important 106 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: to note that, you know, that number captures deportations, and 107 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 2: while there have been a lot of deportations in the 108 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: Trump administration, that does not account nearly enough for how 109 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: much net migration has slowed, So that's people not coming 110 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,119 Speaker 2: over because they're deciding not to, maybe, you know, less 111 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 2: people who are seeking legal status. Deportations of course is 112 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 2: part of it, but it doesn't explain the entire slow 113 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: down that we're seeing in if net international migration. 114 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: All right, So I'm looking at one of your charts. 115 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: This is Eli Sherman from Channel twelve looking at you. 116 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: Said deaths have outpaced berths in Rhode Island over the 117 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: last five years. And I believe what you're saying is, 118 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: you know, despite the past year and the crackdown on 119 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, the border and illegal immigration, deportations, et cetera, 120 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: you still have two different You've got the berths, you've 121 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: got the deaths, but you still have two different columns, 122 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: international migration and domestic migration. So what you talked about 123 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: the international migration would be would be kind of all 124 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: of the above, meaning legal and illegal coming over the border, 125 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: is that correct? And then domestic migration would be maybe 126 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: military moving back and forth. Say you're stationed in whatever, 127 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: Guam and then you're moving. 128 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: Back, you know, So domestic migration would be people who 129 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: are moving into Rhode Island and from other states, right, Okay, 130 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: So that would be someone from Connecticut moving into Rhode 131 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: Island that would be counted as a domestic migration, or 132 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: someone moving out from Rhode Island, which has happened more 133 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: often than people moving in from other states. Over the 134 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: past five years. There was a decrease of about ten 135 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: thousand people over that five year period in domestic migration. 136 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: So people are coming under right, Okay, So people aren't saying, boy, 137 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: you know, I liked to hear in whatever, Montana for 138 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: a while. I think I'm gonna try out Rhode Island. 139 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: Those numbers are way down, way down. And international migration, 140 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: You've got the growth, correct, Yeah. 141 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: That is the driving force behind that one point six 142 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 2: growth overall because again that natural growth, which you want. 143 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: You know, demographic folks and economists like to see natural 144 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: growth because you know when you don't have. And this 145 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: is a way above my take, right, So I'm just 146 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: speaking and in what I read and what you know, 147 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 2: people much smarter than meat tell me, which is that 148 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: you you know you want that natural growth and population 149 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: for a host of reasons. You don't want it to 150 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: be you want because you need younger people to pay 151 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: for older people. Basically, think about the baby boomers entering 152 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: into you know, retirement age, social security, those types of 153 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: things and necessities that get paid through by taxes that 154 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: help older generations is really picked up by younger people. 155 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: And when younger people are growing at a slower rate, 156 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 2: that means that there's less money to go around. Now, 157 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: the opposite is true too. You don't want there to 158 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: be this massive growth of population sometimes because then that 159 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: puts a burden on infrastructure, schools, that type of thing. 160 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: That's on the other scale. But currently we are we're 161 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: at the other side of the problem where there you know, 162 00:09:55,120 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 2: anemic growth can hurt your economy long term and you know, 163 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: helping to pay for some of those things that are 164 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: needed for older populations. And the other part of it 165 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: too is that they are real as you know, taras, 166 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: there are real implications. We live through it. At the 167 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 2: twenty twenty census with Congress because of potion and you 168 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 2: apportionment rather sorry, it's counted, you know, based on how 169 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: many people you have in your state, how many folks 170 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: are going to be representing you in the House of Representatives, 171 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: and Rhode Island very nearly came to losing a seat 172 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty because of slow population growth, just made 173 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: it across the threshold and didn't end up losing a seat. 174 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: But now, you know, the politicos out there who look 175 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: at political data nationwide are saying, at the current rate 176 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 2: that we're going right now in Rhode Island, we are 177 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 2: again at risk of losing that second seat in Congress. 178 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: When the twenty thirty census happens. 179 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: Well, and there was also you know, concern eli that 180 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: we overcounted. Remember all of that in twenty twenty. Didn't 181 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: we have a shift in the numbers? 182 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was you know, everyone sort of thought going 183 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: into the everyone thought going into the twenty twenty census 184 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 2: count that we were indeed going to lose that right 185 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: And then you know, the sort of the assumption was 186 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 2: that maybe there would be this overcount by five five 187 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: percent or something when they came out with the official 188 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: count two years later, because remember what they do is 189 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: they take the census in twenty twenty and then the 190 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: official numbers come out two years later. That's how it 191 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 2: happens every ten years. But you know, it wasn't totally 192 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 2: certain what happened there. They they're these surveys that are 193 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 2: done afterwards that come up with sort of truing out. 194 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: And if you think of any survey or any poll, 195 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: there are margins of air. It is the nature of 196 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 2: polling or surveying. And it so happened that based on 197 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: the numbers that were seen in twenty twenty, it was 198 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: that was going this way. But when they you know, 199 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: the official count came out on that on that survey 200 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: two years later, Rhode Island just squeaked by. So there, 201 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 2: you know, there was a lot of talk and concern 202 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: about overcounting. But this again is something above my pay 203 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: grade that happens at the US Census Bureau. And again 204 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: you know there it is sort of the gold standard 205 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: of data collection at the federal level when it comes 206 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: to demographics. There aren't a lot of other numbers for 207 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: population stuff that happens at the federal level outside of 208 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: the US Census Bureau. 209 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: So this is interesting. At nine twenty one, we're spaking 210 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: with Eli Sherman from Channel twelve. So then you, I mean, 211 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: truth be told. I don't know if in fact you 212 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: know we do we are in danger of losing a 213 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: congressional seat. How do you decide what the procedure is 214 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: for that? Right? We don't have four congressmen. We have two. 215 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: We have two congressional districts, so it would be just 216 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: be one big, fat congressional district. But I don't know 217 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: how you decide, you know, who gets the acts. I 218 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: don't listen, that's the future, right, We were not quite sure, 219 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: but it really is interesting and I'm sure people are 220 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: pounding you, and I'm sure on social media people love 221 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: to be really brave and outspoken. But then we don't 222 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: really know the breakdown because you said the federal government 223 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: doesn't give the breakdown of illegal versus legal right, But 224 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: you've got to understand, I mean, we have to accept 225 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: the fact that a good chunk of it is probably 226 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, when the border was open, people came here, 227 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: and we know that to a certain extent. Even our 228 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: benefits that we give out, we've been known to be 229 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: a very generous state. We have a tremendous amount of 230 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: people on one form of a benefit service or another 231 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: as far as the HHS numbers go. But you, like 232 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: any other state, could you compare to any of the 233 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: shape I don't know if you had time to do that, 234 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: but are we just we're not an outlier here? Is 235 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: this kind of the norm because the border was open 236 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: and what we had millions of people come in. 237 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't look at all fifty states, I'll admit 238 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: to Tara. But you know, the trends that we saw 239 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: here were similar to what we saw in Massachusetts. And 240 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: it's also important to note that because of our slower 241 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: population growth, we actually moved out. For people who like rankings, 242 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 2: Rhode Island in twenty twenty was the forty third largest 243 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: state by population in the country. That ranking has now 244 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: slipped to forty four. We were overtaken by Montana, which 245 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: has seen a more robust population growth over that five years. 246 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, there are the map that the 247 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: educator at Carnegie Mellon put together that I was referencing earlier, 248 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: projecting that the seats would be lost a seat would 249 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: be lost in Rhode Island in twenty thirty. They're showing 250 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: that there would be seats gained in places like Texas 251 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: and Florida, seats lost in California and Michigan or Illinois. 252 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: And so, you know, it's sort of it would be 253 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 2: hard for me to say right now exactly what's contributing 254 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: to all of those factors across the country because I 255 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: need a lot more time to sit down with it 256 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: and look at different policies that are happening there. But 257 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: certainly in New England. You know, the growth in the 258 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 2: slower growth in the Northeast has affected Rhode Island in 259 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: Massachusetts in terms of national rankings compared to some other 260 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: parts of the state. 261 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: All right, listen to it's a really interesting I mean, 262 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: it's a lot of data, but it's really interesting and 263 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate the time you guys did put into this. 264 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: That the that you know, the bottom line is one 265 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: form of migration or another or a few different forms 266 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: has pushed us up in population. But at the same 267 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: time our deaths are outnumbering our berths here in Rhode Island. 268 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: So it's just a it's an interesting compilation of data, 269 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: I guess, is what and people are going to take 270 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: from it what they will. And we can look at 271 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: schools and we can look at you know, benefit programs, 272 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: and we can see that you know, it could be 273 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: taxing for the state of Rhode Island. But I'm not 274 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: putting that on you to opine over, mister Sherman. But 275 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: I appreciate your time and am I missing anything out 276 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: of the piece because it is detailed. 277 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: No, I think I think you hit all the high 278 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: notes for sure. And one thing I would note just 279 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: about the population, you know, the slower rate of births, 280 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 2: is that we do see a lot now that there 281 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 2: are enrollment declines across the state happening in school. So 282 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 2: that is another place for that is showing up in 283 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: terms of you know, less younger people that we can 284 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: point to. 285 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: All Right, thank you Eli Eli Sherman from Channel twelve. 286 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: I appreciate it.