Speaker 1: Now, back to Dirty Work. Adam Copeland and Derek Papa
Speaker 1: on KNBR 104.5 and 680 AM. The Sports Leader.
Speaker 2: Dirty Work on a Wednesday afternoon, Wednesday evening. Adam Copeland,
Speaker 2: D-Pop with you. We're joined on the UMA guest line
Speaker 2: now by Andy Bagley. He covers the Giants for The Athletic.
Speaker 2: The Giants fell today 10-9, leading by six runs in
Speaker 2: the ninth inning. Bags is sponsored by the Dolan Law Firm.
Speaker 2: They live here, they work here, they win here. DolanLawFirm.com. Andy,
Speaker 2: what's going on, man?
Speaker 3: How are you? A little stunned. Processing.
Speaker 4: Still trying to write my story, which bears no resemblance
Speaker 4: to the story that I had mostly written a little
Speaker 4: while earlier.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow. I mean, they're not boring. They're not a
Speaker 3: boring team.
Speaker 4: We can say that much about them, but they were
Speaker 4: pretty roundly booed at the end of this one. And
Speaker 4: when you have the worst ninth inning blown lead in
Speaker 4: franchise history in a loss, you understand why.
Speaker 3: I mean, wow. Yeah, just stunning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's what I was saying to Derek. I was like,
Speaker 2: I mean, I was here for this game, and Derek
Speaker 2: said he wasn't all that surprised just because of what
Speaker 2: the bullpen's done. I said, even for how the bullpen's
Speaker 2: been and the guys that were out there, this was
Speaker 2: a stunning loss. I mean, nobody's ever seen this before,
Speaker 2: coming to Oracle Park, going to Candlestick, going to Seal Stadium,
Speaker 2: going to the polo grounds. It had never happened. We'd
Speaker 2: never seen a team blow a lead like this. Now,
Speaker 2: I haven't heard Tony Vitello's audio after the game, but
Speaker 2: he was ejected early in the game and watched this
Speaker 2: one from afar, but he seemed visibly frustrated just in
Speaker 2: the little video clip that I saw.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think he was, you know, he watched
Speaker 4: it in the clubhouse, argued a check swing call five
Speaker 4: batters into the game. You know, he's trying to defend
Speaker 4: his pitcher. Logan Webb's coming off a tough start.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He's, he's feeling like he's got to do more
Speaker 3: to defend his guys. And, and I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 3: a swing.
Speaker 4: Even Logan Webb said it, it wasn't a swing, but
Speaker 4: you know, he's trying to defend his guys and really
Speaker 4: doesn't say a whole lot.
Speaker 3: And then got ejected.
Speaker 4: And we've seen some umpires have had a pretty quick
Speaker 4: hook with them and, Maybe there's a little more baked
Speaker 4: into that. I think with some umpires, pretty clearly they've
Speaker 4: shown maybe a little contempt for him.
Speaker 3: And that's part of the deal.
Speaker 4: You know, as someone who's coming with his background of
Speaker 4: never being in pro ball before.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make it fair. It doesn't make it right.
Speaker 4: But, yeah, you know, he obviously wasn't really around to
Speaker 4: manage the rest of this game. But, you know, Rafael Devers,
Speaker 4: it looks like he could hit 40 homers this year.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's locked in, hits a splash homer. Shea
Speaker 3: Whitcomb puts a charge into one, Jonah Cox. I mean,
Speaker 3: there were a lot of.
Speaker 4: Good things happening in this game, but it's just kind
Speaker 4: of stunning that this is the ninth time that they've
Speaker 4: lost a game that they led in the ninth inning
Speaker 4: this year. And even if they flip every one of those,
Speaker 4: this is not a playoff team, right? But it's just,
Speaker 4: no matter how conditioned you are to disappointment at this stage,
Speaker 4: you lose a game like this, it stuns you. It's
Speaker 4: absolutely a shot to the solar plexus, and that's kind
Speaker 4: of where they are right now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, historic loss today, Bags, and wouldn't say
Speaker 5: it's rock bottom by any means when they wave the
Speaker 5: white flag much earlier this season. That said, Tony wants
Speaker 5: to win. These guys want to win. They want to
Speaker 5: get their first sweep of the season. So just what
Speaker 5: was the vibe in the clubhouse after this demoralizing loss?
Speaker 3: I mean, just quiet. You know, we talked to Logan Webb.
Speaker 4: I talked to Dylan Smith, who's an absolute pro.
Speaker 3: You know, obviously, this starts getting away.
Speaker 4: From them when Spencer Bivens not not the home run
Speaker 4: he allowed to start at the beginning but the two
Speaker 4: walks and then of course you mix in a bunch
Speaker 4: that's not uh converted into an out and um leads
Speaker 4: to an extra base and you know you had some
Speaker 4: sloppy play in there too we've seen that all year
Speaker 4: and you know it just seems like more of the
Speaker 4: same and you know anytime this team hasn't shown a
Speaker 4: little glimmer of putting together any kind of momentum uh
Speaker 4: you know they kind of just trip over their own
Speaker 4: feet and this was probably the ultimate example of that.
Speaker 4: Like you said, they're three outs away holding a six
Speaker 4: run lead from their first three game sweep of the season.
Speaker 4: And they're the only team that hasn't done it. And
Speaker 4: if they don't do it this year, they'll be the first.
Speaker 3: Giants team who hasn't done it since 1915, I think
Speaker 3: is the stat I saw.
Speaker 4: So yeah, they really desperately want to sweep a series
Speaker 4: and just feel good about themselves for five.
Speaker 3: Minutes, you know, and they're not even able to do that.
Speaker 2: Talking to Andy Bagley covers the giants for the athletic.
Speaker 2: He joins us on the UMA guest line. I was
Speaker 2: looking today or just thinking today about, you know, we've
Speaker 2: talked a lot about roster and where their focus will
Speaker 2: go this offseason and where they need to improve. But
Speaker 2: I wonder about, I mean, Tony Vitello came in. They
Speaker 2: did have one coaching change in season with Hector Borg
Speaker 2: being replaced at third base by Gary Pettis. I wonder
Speaker 2: just about, and I'm not looking to talk about calling
Speaker 2: for somebody's job, but I wonder where the Giants will
Speaker 2: evaluate what they could be better at with a coaching
Speaker 2: change or whether coaching could improve any one element. I
Speaker 2: just look at the pitching staff in general and I go,
Speaker 2: forget the saves, forget the bullpen. They don't throw a
Speaker 2: lot of strikes bags. And there's a lot of first
Speaker 2: year guys here.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, clearly there's a lot of very, very
Speaker 4: fundamental concepts that, you know, they've gone backwards on and,
Speaker 4: you know, the, the hitters need to draw more walks,
Speaker 4: work more counts, be more selective. The pitchers need to
Speaker 4: create more count leverage, not walk as many batters. I mean,
Speaker 4: You know, there were a lot of things that I
Speaker 4: think went into the previous regime, like the Farhan Zaidi regime.
Speaker 4: I mean, he was a big believer in strike-up-to-walk ratio,
Speaker 4: you know, home run rate, keep the ball in the
Speaker 4: ballpark and don't walk, guys. And that'll take you most
Speaker 4: of the way, really. And you still need to have
Speaker 4: some bat-missers in there. But that's kind of what this
Speaker 4: team has gotten away from. You know, the rosters that
Speaker 4: are kind of high-floor rosters where you don't have the
Speaker 4: superstar players– you know, you can still compete and contend.
Speaker 4: I mean, last year's team is disappointing as the season was,
Speaker 4: they were 500 team, you know, and they were maybe
Speaker 4: two or three games out of being in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: And, and so they've really gone backwards in a lot
Speaker 4: of those ways. And that's going to be what they're
Speaker 4: going to.
Speaker 3: Have to re-examine.
Speaker 4: I would argue it starts from a roster building.
Speaker 3: Standpoint and the choices that they made. And then, and
Speaker 3: then from there, it's okay.
Speaker 4: How do we squeeze a little more juice out of the,
Speaker 4: out of the orange and, and that's where you really
Speaker 4: have to take a look at the coaching staff.
Speaker 5: Talking to Andy Baggerly on the UMA guest line. Andy,
Speaker 5: your reaction to the unfortunate news for Carson Wisenhunt suffering
Speaker 5: a torn UCL and having to have Tommy John along
Speaker 5: with Trevor McDonald?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it feels like the Giants kind of
Speaker 4: escaped the beast on this one for a long time.
Speaker 4: They had a long stretch where they really didn't lose
Speaker 4: any top prospects or really good players. to Tommy John surgery,
Speaker 4: some of their pitching prospects really from Jesse Foppert. I
Speaker 4: think all the way you could trace.
Speaker 3: Another 15 years.
Speaker 4: I know that's something Dave Rigetti was very proud of.
Speaker 4: You know, they were able to get these guys to
Speaker 4: the big leagues and get them, you know, to have contracts,
Speaker 4: even though no Lowry was able to get, you know,
Speaker 4: a multi-year contract to his RB years.
Speaker 3: But, you know, it's, it's tough.
Speaker 4: The way you ask so much of your pitchers is
Speaker 4: throw so hard these days.
Speaker 3: And, you know, the guys who are getting hurt aren't
Speaker 3: exactly guys.
Speaker 4: Who were, you know, throw in 99 on our gas. Um,
Speaker 4: but we did see Hayden Birdsong go down in spring training. Uh, and,
Speaker 4: and now you're seeing wiz and hunt.
Speaker 3: And Trevor McDonald.
Speaker 4: I don't think this is anything that you put on
Speaker 4: like the coaches or you put on the training staff.
Speaker 3: I think this is.
Speaker 4: Just modern baseball and the giants were, were fortunate enough
Speaker 4: to avoid a good stretch of it where it was
Speaker 4: really affecting the rest of the league. And, and now,
Speaker 4: you know, maybe this is just a sort of regressing
Speaker 4: to the mean a little bit. And, and, All that aside,
Speaker 4: on a very personal level, you feel terrible for a
Speaker 4: Carson Wittenhut. Again, it's just like what we're talking about.
Speaker 4: Once you start to show a glimmer of something positive
Speaker 4: where you can really feel good about yourself. He was
Speaker 4: putting together a nice start the other day and then, boom,
Speaker 4: feels it on a pitch and tries to throw another
Speaker 4: and then that's it. You feel for him it's going
Speaker 4: to be a long road back. McDonald had his procedure
Speaker 4: just earlier this month, so Yeah, it's got to be tough, man.
Speaker 4: I mean, these guys do this because they love to
Speaker 4: compete for the most part, and you've got to take
Speaker 4: it away from you for more than a year.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's going to be a long road back
Speaker 3: for them.
Speaker 2: Talking to Bags, a few more minutes here on the
Speaker 2: ULA guest line. I don't think it was an overstatement
Speaker 2: when the Giants acquired Rafael Devers that a lot of
Speaker 2: us thought and said, this is the best talent-wise power
Speaker 2: hitter they've had or acquired since they had Barry Bonds.
Speaker 2: And now he's doing things at Oracle Park that only
Speaker 2: Bonds had ever done, right? I mean, he's hit his
Speaker 2: 17th home run of the season. today in this ballpark
Speaker 2: and a towering, pretty impressive splash hit. I really don't
Speaker 2: think this ballpark is affecting him all that much. I
Speaker 2: think he's a slow starter, but it does seem like
Speaker 2: he's kind of coming back to the mean.
Speaker 3: Here, Pax. You know what?
Speaker 4: I would love to have a conversation with him because
Speaker 4: he doesn't talk to us very often, obviously. I think
Speaker 4: we were hoping we could talk to him after today's game,
Speaker 4: but then the story obviously changed. But I would love
Speaker 4: to ask him– did that series in Fenway almost kind
Speaker 4: of give you closure a little bit? You know, you
Speaker 4: have that experience, whether they booed you, appreciated you, cheered you, whatever.
Speaker 4: It almost helps you tie a bow on it. And
Speaker 4: then you come back home and it feels like home,
Speaker 4: you know, as opposed to I'm a mercenary and this
Speaker 4: is where I've been traded to.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't even know if he would, he seems kind
Speaker 4: of dismissive of questions like that. So I don't think
Speaker 4: he'd even get an answer, but yeah, I do wonder
Speaker 4: it's probably human nature. You know, you have an experience
Speaker 4: like that where you go to Boston and maybe it
Speaker 4: just does allow you to kind of close the loop
Speaker 4: a little bit. And, and clearly he looks comfortable now here.
Speaker 4: I think he does have the opportunity to be a
Speaker 4: fan favorite here.
Speaker 3: I would love it.
Speaker 4: You know, obviously as someone who likes to introduce players to,
Speaker 4: to fans and sort of make that connection and, You know,
Speaker 4: I would love it if he shared a little more
Speaker 4: of himself with us, which he hasn't yet, but that's
Speaker 4: his prerogative. So if you do great things on the field,
Speaker 4: you're going to get cheered.
Speaker 3: And, you know, whether you're Raphael. Devers or Barry Bonds
Speaker 3: or whoever. So, you know, yeah, he's having.
Speaker 4: What's going to turn into a good year. It could
Speaker 4: even be a 40-homer year, really. And you look at
Speaker 4: the whole lineup is completely disintegrated.
Speaker 3: Around him.
Speaker 4: I mean, Jung-Hoo Lee scratched before the first pitch and
Speaker 4: it's Raphael Devers is the only guy left holding this
Speaker 4: whole thing up. And by the way, he's played in every.
Speaker 3: Game this year.
Speaker 4: And Tony Vitello says he's going to give him a
Speaker 4: day or two off down the stretch.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: That's what Tony says.
Speaker 3: I don't believe him.
Speaker 4: I don't think Raphael Devers is going to miss a
Speaker 4: game this year. You know, I think he's probably going
Speaker 4: to play in both ends of Saturday's doubleheader because I
Speaker 4: think that's what he loves to do. He's got the
Speaker 4: third longest consecutive game streak in the major leagues he
Speaker 4: played 163 games last year and you know it's he's
Speaker 4: obviously not a part of the.
Speaker 3: Problem i think we can very very clearly.
Speaker 5: Say that staying on devers well red hot series and
Speaker 5: doing it with an inexperienced lineup and of course devers
Speaker 5: has received a ton of criticism since becoming a giant
Speaker 5: but john shea on our airwaves earlier today said that
Speaker 5: he's been more of a mentor of late have you
Speaker 5: seen that as well andy.
Speaker 4: Um, you know, hard to see, we're not in the clubhouse. Um,
Speaker 4: we see when guys come out and do their work. Uh,
Speaker 4: that's what I think we've been told. That's what Tony
Speaker 4: Vitello said that, uh, Devers has been someone who will
Speaker 4: speak up in hitters meetings. Um, you know, so yeah,
Speaker 4: I think you just go based on that. And, uh, um, that's,
Speaker 4: that's what the manager says. So, um, you know, he's
Speaker 4: someone who's been around the block. He's been a part
Speaker 4: of a world series team. He's, you know, been the
Speaker 4: super young guy. He was in the big leagues, barely what,
Speaker 4: 1920 years old. So, um, this guy's seen a lot
Speaker 4: in his career before his 30th birthday.
Speaker 3: And, you know, anything he.
Speaker 4: Can do to kind of share any of that wisdom
Speaker 4: with his teammates.
Speaker 3: Is something that I'm sure everyone's going to be listening to.
Speaker 2: Last one for me, Bags, before we let you go,
Speaker 2: the flop today from Landon Rupp, who was supposed to
Speaker 2: be the starter to Logan Webb. I know there was
Speaker 2: talk before the game, maybe that was just to go
Speaker 2: for the sweep. Do we know that that was the
Speaker 2: reason or is there anything else behind this?
Speaker 4: No, you know, it really came from Logan and his
Speaker 4: thought process was a couple of things. One, You know,
Speaker 4: he only threw two whatever innings in Boston because it
Speaker 4: was a bad start. So he didn't throw that many pitches.
Speaker 4: And so he didn't need the extra day, really. But
Speaker 4: he knew that Landon Roop could use the extra day
Speaker 4: because Roop is way past however many innings he's thrown
Speaker 4: in a professional season. So I think he's both thinking, hey,
Speaker 4: I don't need to cool my heels for another day
Speaker 4: because I kind of had a short start. And, you know,
Speaker 4: I got this young teammate who probably could use the
Speaker 4: extra day just to rest and recover. So that kind
Speaker 4: of came from Logan himself. Everybody was on board.
Speaker 3: With it, so that's why they did it. Well, good stuff.
Speaker 2: Good leadership from Logan Webb there, too. And deserved better
Speaker 2: in terms of a victory today. I'm sure he's thinking
Speaker 2: to himself, how am I going to get a loss
Speaker 2: in that? Or not going to win in that one.
Speaker 2: Andrew Baggerly covers the Giants for The Athletic. He joins
Speaker 2: us every week here. Bags, appreciate the time. Good luck
Speaker 2: finishing the story, man. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Andy. Yeah, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thanks, man. All right, good stuff there. Adam Copeland, Derek
Speaker 2: Papa with you until 6 o'clock tonight.
Speaker 3: Dude, I'm not going to be with you tomorrow, man.
Speaker 5: We'll be okay.
Speaker 3: Oh, dude.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 2: Did you catch that, dude?
Speaker 3: Jesus.
Speaker 2: Dude, holy crap.
Speaker 5: I'm looking forward to a little Rick action.
Speaker 2: What are you going to do?
Speaker 3: We'll be okay.
Speaker 5: You're doing bigger and better things, doing 49ers pregame with
Speaker 5: John Dickinson, and I'll do my little show with Rick
Speaker 5: Tittle tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Don't walk it back.
Speaker 3: Now, dude.
Speaker 5: Sorry, you caught me off guard there.
Speaker 3: I didn't know we were going there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet you did.
Speaker 1: I'll miss you, too.
Speaker 2: I didn't say all that much. I was like, oh, man,
Speaker 2: am I going to be there tomorrow?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: You know why I got into this business, dude, to
Speaker 2: talk on KSFO.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: We'll take a quick break. When we come on back,
Speaker 2: we'll put the show to bed. It's Dirty Work. It's
Speaker 2: a Wednesday. It's only here on the Sports Leader.