WEBVTT - Freedom  GOD Heals

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning and welcome. We're continuing our series of conversations

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<v Speaker 1>about freedom, and maybe you think this morning, what does

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<v Speaker 1>freedom have to do with my purpose and being fulfilled

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<v Speaker 1>and what life is all about? And just give a

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<v Speaker 1>thought to this way back our forefathers said, we believe

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<v Speaker 1>that all people are created equal and endowed by their

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<v Speaker 1>creator with certain and alienable rights like life, liberty, and

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<v Speaker 1>the pursuit of happiness. And so freedom gets tied into

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<v Speaker 1>the idea of happiness and how we find fulfillment. And

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<v Speaker 1>last week we talked about the God who hears, and

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<v Speaker 1>today we're thinking a little bit about the God who heals.

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<v Speaker 1>And I shared with you the quote from Tolkien's book

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<v Speaker 1>Lord of the Rings. This is frodo.

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<v Speaker 2>I wish it.

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<v Speaker 1>Need not have happened in my time, So do I

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<v Speaker 1>said Gandalf, And so do all who live to see

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<v Speaker 1>such times. But that is not for them to decide.

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<v Speaker 1>All we have to decide is what to do with

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<v Speaker 1>the time given us. So I think all of us

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<v Speaker 1>understand that feeling that'll be in circumstances and to be

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<v Speaker 1>going through things in our life and in our journey

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<v Speaker 1>that are unsettling that we wish were not happening that

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<v Speaker 1>we wish had never happened. And so when we look

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<v Speaker 1>at that and recognize that there are some problems and

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<v Speaker 1>there are some things that need to be addressed, it's

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<v Speaker 1>important to remember that God is working for our freedom.

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<v Speaker 1>John sixteen thirty three. I've told you these things so

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<v Speaker 1>that in me you might have peace. In the world,

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<v Speaker 1>you will have trouble, But take heart, I've overcome the world.

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<v Speaker 1>And so there is an acknowledgment that the world's broken,

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<v Speaker 1>that there are a lot of things in it that

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<v Speaker 1>aren't working right. But God hears, and then also God heals.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you begin to think about that, and you

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<v Speaker 1>think about brokenness and what it looks like and what

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<v Speaker 1>it means, what kind of brokenness in your story and

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<v Speaker 1>in your life needs some healing. Maybe personal failure, chronic sin, addiction, trauma,

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<v Speaker 1>family dysfunction. Maybe you just have a ruminating mind and

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<v Speaker 1>it wears you out. Maybe it's depression or anxiety, emotional

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<v Speaker 1>battles that wear us down. Maybe it's relational battles that

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<v Speaker 1>finally wear out our hope. So when you begin to

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<v Speaker 1>think about that, and you think about life, and you

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<v Speaker 1>think about the biblical narrative and what it has to

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<v Speaker 1>teach us. You got to admit that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the key characters in the biblical narrative suffer from incredible brokenness.

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<v Speaker 1>Adam and Eve had some obvious issues. Abraham passes off

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<v Speaker 1>his wife as his sister to Farah so he could

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<v Speaker 1>save his own life. He has a child with his

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<v Speaker 1>wife's servant, Hagar. And if you know church history, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know the history of religions, then you know that

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<v Speaker 1>still has reverberations into our modern culture today. Isaac, he

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<v Speaker 1>has the process of deception. Jacob joins with his mother

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<v Speaker 1>to deceive Isaac and to steal his brother's birthright. Dysfunction, brokenness.

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen Specter writes the patriarchal narratives display the blessings of

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<v Speaker 1>being favored by God, but also reveal its human cost.

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<v Speaker 1>Abraham and his descendants are both exalted and riven by

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<v Speaker 1>their chosenness, and as a family they inflict severe distress

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<v Speaker 1>on each other. Seen from that perspective, much of Genesis

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<v Speaker 1>twelve through fifty is an account of dysfunction and trauma,

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<v Speaker 1>but the narrative arc of Genesis leans in the direction

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<v Speaker 1>of spiritual, moral, and emotional growth, and that opens the

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<v Speaker 1>possibility of healing and reconciliation for that to happen. The

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<v Speaker 1>text stresses the importance of human kindness, love, and forgiveness

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<v Speaker 1>as well as God's grace. So when we're goin to

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<v Speaker 1>think about that and the brokenness that comes up with it,

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<v Speaker 1>we get to this store. Jacob played favorites with his children,

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<v Speaker 1>and he set up Joseph to be at odds with

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<v Speaker 1>his brothers. But Joseph is also arrogant, and he doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>show much discretion in what he chooses to say out loud,

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<v Speaker 1>and then that leads to great division. Eventually, Joseph is

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<v Speaker 1>sowed into slavery. He arrives in Egypt, he goes through

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<v Speaker 1>a process in Egypt, and eventually comes to power in

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<v Speaker 1>Egypt over the famine. But it all starts from dysfunction. David,

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<v Speaker 1>the Great King of Israel, has a great deal of

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<v Speaker 1>brokenness in his story at all levels mental, emotional, relational, sin,

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<v Speaker 1>on and on it goes. When you look at Matthew's

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<v Speaker 1>genealogy of the story of Jesus of Christ, you find

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<v Speaker 1>all kinds of interesting people in the genealogy. The patriarchs

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<v Speaker 1>are there, but so is Tomorrow. Tomorrow a woman who

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<v Speaker 1>is in one of the most broken stories of the Bible,

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<v Speaker 1>rehab a woman of ill repute, Ruth who's not even Jewish.

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<v Speaker 1>All of that to say, God uses broken people, and

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<v Speaker 1>he uses broken people because there really aren't any other

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of people in the world, just broken people. So

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<v Speaker 1>somehow you've begun to think that you're too broken to

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<v Speaker 1>be a part of the redeeming story, that you're too

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<v Speaker 1>broken to be a part of a solution in your

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<v Speaker 1>own home and in your own family, even to heal

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<v Speaker 1>from your own brokenness. Think again, because that is a

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<v Speaker 1>part of the story. Then there's Moses. Moses was raised

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<v Speaker 1>in the tradition and luxury of Egyptian royalty, and then

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<v Speaker 1>he got into some trouble and he murdered someone, and

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<v Speaker 1>then decided that the best course of action.

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<v Speaker 2>Was to run away. He just ran away.

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<v Speaker 1>He ran away from his obligations, he ran away from

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<v Speaker 1>his family, he ran away from his responsibilities in the palace,

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<v Speaker 1>and he spent the next forty years.

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<v Speaker 2>Think about that. He spent the next forty.

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<v Speaker 1>Years moving on, getting on with his life, just leading

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<v Speaker 1>a quiet life. He doesn't go back to check on

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<v Speaker 1>his loved ones, he doesn't go back to check on

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<v Speaker 1>his friends. He doesn't check on his family. He's just

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<v Speaker 1>decided he'll just watch his father in law sheeps. Not

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<v Speaker 1>even in business for himself. He's going to watch his

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<v Speaker 1>father in law sheep, and he does so for forty

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<v Speaker 1>years brokenness. Not exactly the person that you would call

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<v Speaker 1>on to fix things that are broken.

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<v Speaker 2>But here we are.

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<v Speaker 1>And so during that long period, we're told in Exodus

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<v Speaker 1>two and three that the king of Egypt died and

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<v Speaker 1>that the Israelites were groaning in their slavery and there

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<v Speaker 1>were issues going on.

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<v Speaker 2>But God heard their cry and he began to take action.

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<v Speaker 1>So one day, as Moses is tending his father in

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<v Speaker 1>law sheep, he notices that there is a a bush

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<v Speaker 1>that has caught on fire, and he notices it's not

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<v Speaker 1>being consumed, and so he thinks, I'm going to go

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<v Speaker 1>check this out, and he does. He goes over to

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<v Speaker 1>the site and he hears the voice of God. Take

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<v Speaker 1>off your shoes, Moses, this is holy ground, and he

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<v Speaker 1>does so, and now God begins to speak to him

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<v Speaker 1>about what's going to happen. He's going to send Moses

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<v Speaker 1>to help the people be delivered. He's heard the groanings

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<v Speaker 1>of his people. He's a god who hears, and now

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<v Speaker 1>he's going to send Moses and he's going to go

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<v Speaker 1>and he's going to have them speak to Pharaoh and

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<v Speaker 1>be delivered, and he's going to take them, the Israelites,

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<v Speaker 1>to a promised land that he had given to Abraham

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<v Speaker 1>and Isaac and Jacob. And this big promise begins to unfold,

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<v Speaker 1>and then Moses kind of gives that a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of thought, and he's not quite sure how it all

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<v Speaker 1>is going to fit together and how he fits into it.

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<v Speaker 1>So how does God respond to this broken man and

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<v Speaker 1>the broken story. He not only extends in mercy, but

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<v Speaker 1>he says, you're just the man I need for the job.

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<v Speaker 1>You're my chosen purpose to accomplish my will in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to free people and I'm going to change

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<v Speaker 1>the circumstances through your influence and your journey. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>sure why God is so merciful and gracious in all

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<v Speaker 1>of the stories, but he's merciful and gracious in our

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<v Speaker 1>stories too. He always responds to us in mercy. Moses

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't think he should be the person. He feels disqualified,

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<v Speaker 1>he feels underqualified, But God keeps calling him anyway, And

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<v Speaker 1>I think he keeps calling each of us into a

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<v Speaker 1>place of service, into a place where we can make

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<v Speaker 1>a difference in the world, where we can see the

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<v Speaker 1>Kingdom come and God's will done on earth as it

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<v Speaker 1>is in heaven. Do you see yourself as being used

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<v Speaker 1>in God's hands for God's purposes? His interactions with mothers

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<v Speaker 1>tells a few things about God. Number One, God sees

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<v Speaker 1>a big picture. God sees things in Moses' life, and

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<v Speaker 1>how he's uniquely equipped. Think about it. Is there anybody

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<v Speaker 1>on the planet more qualified to do this than Moses.

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<v Speaker 1>He knows about Pharaoh, he knows about royalty, he knows

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<v Speaker 1>about the practices of the palace, and he's raised as

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<v Speaker 1>a Jew, and so he understands the plight of his people.

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<v Speaker 1>He knows his own history obviously as a relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>the divine God of the Israelites. And so who really,

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<v Speaker 1>when you just look at the raw information, who would

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<v Speaker 1>be better qualified. He's rough, He's lived forty years as

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<v Speaker 1>a shepherd out in the middle of nowhere. But there's

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<v Speaker 1>something about him that's very, very important, and he sees

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<v Speaker 1>the big picture. He sees the big picture in our

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<v Speaker 1>story as well, and then deeper motives. God sees that

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<v Speaker 1>Moses has missed guided as his choices were, that he

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<v Speaker 1>was responding to the situation with the Egyptian shoulder as

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<v Speaker 1>an act of protection. It went wrong, and it should

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<v Speaker 1>have happened differently. But God looks at our deeper motives

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<v Speaker 1>that Moses, in fact, in this moment of great failure,

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<v Speaker 1>was acting as a shepherd, was acting for the cause

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<v Speaker 1>of justice, and it went wrong, and it's not the

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<v Speaker 1>right thing. But God does look at the motive. He

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<v Speaker 1>sees something in us that's worth calling out. He had

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<v Speaker 1>forty years for the passion of youth to wear off,

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<v Speaker 1>to gain a little bit of wisdom and maturity, and

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<v Speaker 1>he looks at our deeper motives of what's going on

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<v Speaker 1>in our hearts and in our minds. We're going to

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<v Speaker 1>come back to this right after this break.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Healing Conversations on KABC seven ninety M

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<v Speaker 1>Dave Roberts. We're talking about brokenness, Moses's brokenness. How many

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<v Speaker 1>of us feel like our story are so broken that

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<v Speaker 1>we just don't have anything to offer. We can't be

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<v Speaker 1>very useful, we can't ever be what we once hoped

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<v Speaker 1>to be. But the entire biblical narrative, and especially the

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<v Speaker 1>story of Moses, reminds us that God looks at a

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<v Speaker 1>lot deeper things. He sees a big picture, He sees

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<v Speaker 1>things we can't see or things we've forgotten. And then

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<v Speaker 1>he looks at our motives. I think that's so important.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes you and I have to be honest about our motives.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes we need to forgive ourselves for failures, that we

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<v Speaker 1>had the right motives, but we made the wrong choices.

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<v Speaker 1>Other times we need to confess that we've made good

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<v Speaker 1>choices with bad motives. Sometimes we've made bad choices with

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<v Speaker 1>bad motives. But motives matter. God looks at the condition

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<v Speaker 1>of our heart, and even when things don't turn out

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<v Speaker 1>exactly right, he sees something deeper in us, things that

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<v Speaker 1>we can't even see ourselves.

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<v Speaker 2>And God is full of.

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<v Speaker 1>Grace and redeems our failures and even redeems the motives

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<v Speaker 1>behind them. Then number three sees hidden potential. God sees

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<v Speaker 1>something in Moses that no one else sees. That he

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<v Speaker 1>can look at Moses. He can look at his story

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<v Speaker 1>and remember, Moses is now eighty years old. He was

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<v Speaker 1>in Egypt for forty years, and now he's been tending

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<v Speaker 1>sheep for forty years. Not many people look at a

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<v Speaker 1>person at that stage of life and see a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of hidden potential. But God does. God does, and so

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<v Speaker 1>there's this opportunity. There's this moment. And when God looks

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<v Speaker 1>at a person who's been shamed and disqualified and in

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<v Speaker 1>many ways exiled into the wilderness and sees potential, sees

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<v Speaker 1>someone who has something worth salvaging, something worth celebrating, and

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<v Speaker 1>think about it, Moses becomes this heroic character.

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<v Speaker 2>Very few of.

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<v Speaker 1>Us think of Moses in the state that he's in

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<v Speaker 1>at this stage of the story. God sees something in him,

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<v Speaker 1>and he sees something in you. God sees our hidden potential,

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<v Speaker 1>even when we think we've been used up, when we

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<v Speaker 1>think we've been disqualified, are shamed into submission, or misused,

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<v Speaker 1>or mismanaged, our unappreciated, more extreme cases, abused. We have

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<v Speaker 1>a million ways to get broken, but God still sees

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<v Speaker 1>our hidden potential. What would you change if you believed

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<v Speaker 1>God sees in you hidden potential and is calling you

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<v Speaker 1>to accomplish something, to heal something down inside of you

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<v Speaker 1>that's been broken for a long time. God knew Moses's story,

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<v Speaker 1>and he knew his journey. He saw the big picture

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<v Speaker 1>and the deeper motives. But he saw in him a

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<v Speaker 1>champion who could lead his people to freedom, and he

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<v Speaker 1>begins to heal the brokenness of his life. Number four

0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.719
<v Speaker 1>he sees in Moses' willingness to listen. Moses saw the

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:11.360
<v Speaker 1>burning bush, went closer. God spoke, Moses listened. God said

0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.520
<v Speaker 1>this is holy ground. Take off your shoes, and Moses

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 1>took off his shoes. God may see our weakness and

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.800
<v Speaker 1>our failures and our selfishness, but he also sees, when

0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.240
<v Speaker 1>in spite of it all, we're willing to listen and respond,

0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.200
<v Speaker 1>that the best way to navigate brokenness is to get

0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 1>really serious about humility and listening and being teachable and

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.680
<v Speaker 1>being curious and interested in what God might say or

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 1>what he might do. It matters to our healing, and

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.440
<v Speaker 1>it matters to the health of our relationships that we

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 1>are able to listen.

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Are you able to listen?

0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 1>It says in Psalms forty six, Be still and know

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:58.280
<v Speaker 1>that I'm God. God looks for willingness to listen as

0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.600
<v Speaker 1>he works to heal what's broken in us. And then

0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.520
<v Speaker 1>number five he sees his anxious doubts. As God tells Moses,

0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.840
<v Speaker 1>you're the person, Moses has a very long list of

0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.560
<v Speaker 1>reasons why he's not the person. He has a very

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 1>long list of reasons why God should pick someone else.

0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 1>He has his own anxiety and fears about what God

0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:22.480
<v Speaker 1>is saying.

0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Moses could have seen this opportunity in a lot of

0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.320
<v Speaker 1>different ways. He could have seen it as a moment

0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 1>of revenge. He's going to go back. He's going to

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 1>show everybody that he shouldn't have been run out of town,

0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 1>that he's stronger than they thought. He's going to get

0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.760
<v Speaker 1>revenge on the old system that's abused as people. He

0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.000
<v Speaker 1>could have seen it as a time for his own edification.

0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 1>He's going to become a hero. He's going to ride

0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 1>back in and save his people. But he didn't see

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 1>any of that stuff in himself. What he saw instead

0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 1>was the fact that he was really not ready for it,

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 1>and he gives a whole list of reasons why he's

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 1>not ready for it. He doesn't talk very well, he's

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>not an eloquent person. He's just not the right person

0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 1>for the job. That God's probably made a mistake, that

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.320
<v Speaker 1>he really one by one just has a lot of

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 1>reasons why he's not the person, and God's gracious like that.

0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Seems to me that a lot of times broken people

0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:29.600
<v Speaker 1>are humble. Brokenness somehow takes out the fight and the

0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 1>starch and the pride, and it causes us to be

0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 1>in a space where we are anxious about a lot

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 1>of things. How could IF fix that? How could I

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 1>cure that? How could I be a part of a

0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.040
<v Speaker 1>solution in that with my own issues and my own stuff.

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:50.440
<v Speaker 1>And God patiently deals with our anxious doubts.

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.880
<v Speaker 2>One by one by one by one.

0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.920
<v Speaker 1>He acts like that with us. And then finally number six,

0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:03.400
<v Speaker 1>God sees in Moses a self effacing leader. He sees

0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.040
<v Speaker 1>a person who has the capacity to be incredibly strong

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.840
<v Speaker 1>and courageous. That Moses will find himself and find some

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.399
<v Speaker 1>strength that he never knew he had. But he also

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.119
<v Speaker 1>finds in him someone who will remain dependent on God.

0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 1>And is this complex story begins to unfold. We're going

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.240
<v Speaker 1>to see Moses again and again and again and again

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.399
<v Speaker 1>as a self effacing leader pointing the people to God,

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.679
<v Speaker 1>coming back to God, remembering again and again, this is

0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:36.920
<v Speaker 1>not about me. It's not about how smart I am

0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.000
<v Speaker 1>It's not about my strength. This is about God. It's

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.200
<v Speaker 1>about what he can do, It's about his calling. It's

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.560
<v Speaker 1>about what he desires for me. And that is so

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.160
<v Speaker 1>incredibly important as we think about that, as we think

0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.000
<v Speaker 1>about what it means for us. So how does God

0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.439
<v Speaker 1>respond to this broken man in this broken story? He

0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.080
<v Speaker 1>extends him Mercy says, you are just the person that

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:06.680
<v Speaker 1>I need for this job. You're exactly who I'm looking for.

0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.240
<v Speaker 1>And how does he respond to the brokenness in our story?

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to where we started this conversation. What

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 1>is the brokenness in your story? What makes you feel shamed? Disqualified?

0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Is it choices you've made?

0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Is it chronic failure?

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, acute failure where we just wake up one

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:34.120
<v Speaker 1>morning and we just spectacularly fall apart is one kind

0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.920
<v Speaker 1>of thing, but the kind of shows up week after

0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.159
<v Speaker 1>week and year after year that just stays with us

0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:41.840
<v Speaker 1>and we think, by now I should be over this.

0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:43.920
<v Speaker 1>That's a kind of brokenness that eats away at the

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.119
<v Speaker 1>very center of our soul.

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:52.240
<v Speaker 2>How do you deal with that? Is it relational trauma?

0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:52.560
<v Speaker 3>Is it?

0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Are you in a relationship, in a marriage, have some

0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 1>children that you just can't parents? You just can't seem

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 1>to get along and it's not working. There's just constant

0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:10.120
<v Speaker 1>friction and stress and sadness and grief and anger. Brokenness

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:11.760
<v Speaker 1>is an addiction.

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.520
<v Speaker 2>There's so many ways. Is it financial? Is it career?

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.719
<v Speaker 1>Is it self doubt? There's so many things that cause

0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 1>brokenness in our lives and in our story, and we

0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.560
<v Speaker 1>start to see ourselves as less than and we walk

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:31.320
<v Speaker 1>around in life feeling wounded and hurt and overwhelmed. I

0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.119
<v Speaker 1>just want to remind you there are really no people

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:39.879
<v Speaker 1>in this Biblical story that don't display incredible amounts of brokenness.

0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:45.600
<v Speaker 1>And it's not because they're somehow significantly more terrible than

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.600
<v Speaker 1>the next person. The fact of the matter is they're

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 1>just people. But the good news of the narrative of

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 1>the Bible is that God uses broken people, uses them

0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:54.640
<v Speaker 1>again and again.

0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:55.720
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes I hear.

0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.200
<v Speaker 1>People say the Bible is just propaganda. Well, it's very

0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:06.399
<v Speaker 1>bad propagand it's broken people who suffer frequent failure, but

0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.400
<v Speaker 1>are encountered by a divine God who loves them, who

0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.320
<v Speaker 1>reaches out to them. Not only that, but uses them,

0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.520
<v Speaker 1>doesn't cancel them, He doesn't keep them from being a

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.440
<v Speaker 1>part of the story, part of the narrative, a part

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:23.760
<v Speaker 1>of what matters. Instead, He's a God of mercy. He

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.120
<v Speaker 1>forgives them, he sees the potential in them. He looks

0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.120
<v Speaker 1>at the deeper part of their heart, of who they

0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.720
<v Speaker 1>really are. There's a passage in the New Testament says,

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.400
<v Speaker 1>even when our hearts condemn us, he doesn't commit us.

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.119
<v Speaker 1>We're often so hard on ourselves. But God shows mercy

0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 1>to us, and thank God he does.

0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:41.600
<v Speaker 2>We need that.

0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Some of us this morning need a chance to heal.

0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.040
<v Speaker 1>God doesn't have a plan B. He just has a

0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.600
<v Speaker 1>plan A that whatever has happened to you, and whatever

0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.800
<v Speaker 1>you've suffered through, and however you see yourself or think

0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.280
<v Speaker 1>of yourself, God today would say to you, Hey, anyone

0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.560
<v Speaker 1>who's in cry, this is a new creation. The old

0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.080
<v Speaker 1>is gone and the newest come. You don't have to

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.760
<v Speaker 1>carry this around. You can lay it down and you

0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:08.520
<v Speaker 1>can set it aside, and you can be done with it.

0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:10.760
<v Speaker 1>And we'll come up with a brand new plan A

0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.119
<v Speaker 1>from where we are right now. Whatever happened before is

0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.960
<v Speaker 1>the past. We'll make a new plan A. Paul says,

0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.960
<v Speaker 1>this one thing I do forgetting what is behind, I

0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.440
<v Speaker 1>reach forward to take hold of the prize for which

0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 1>God has called me heavenward. So give that some thought,

0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:30.840
<v Speaker 1>let that resonate in your heart.

0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:31.960
<v Speaker 2>We're coming up to a.

0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.439
<v Speaker 1>Break, and maybe you just take the next few minutes

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:36.760
<v Speaker 1>and think, what if I could have a fresh start

0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.720
<v Speaker 1>in a new beginning. What if God really can heal

0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.679
<v Speaker 1>the deep brokenness in my heart and mind. We're going

0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:47.120
<v Speaker 1>to pick that up right after this break. Welcome back

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:51.480
<v Speaker 1>here listening to Healing Conversations on KABC seven ninety. I'm

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:55.280
<v Speaker 1>Dave Robertson. We're welcoming into the studio. Eric mclennanan. Welcome Eric,

0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Good morning, Dave. How are you man, I'm good. How

0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:57.640
<v Speaker 1>you doing.

0:21:58.280 --> 0:21:59.040
<v Speaker 3>I'm doing good?

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 1>Moses, Moses, Brokenness, got Healing. There's a lot of stuff here.

0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.439
<v Speaker 3>There are times that we start the show and you

0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.320
<v Speaker 3>look and you're like, oh, we're gonna talk about brokenness today. Fun.

0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think we've talked about this before.

0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Maybe we've not talked about this.

0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.640
<v Speaker 1>On the show, but I think it's really important as

0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:24.280
<v Speaker 1>a speaker that I talk about the things I'm learning,

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.920
<v Speaker 1>not the things that I already know. And then that

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.200
<v Speaker 1>necessarily means that I kind of have to talk about

0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:35.639
<v Speaker 1>my own brokenness, which is not hard to find, you know,

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 1>It's it's not a difficult thing to come up with.

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:44.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's interesting talking about Moses because he's he's certainly

0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.480
<v Speaker 3>one of like the pillar hero characters.

0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:50.399
<v Speaker 1>I think I said last week, but he must have

0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.520
<v Speaker 1>the best press agent in the world. Yeah, I mean,

0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:54.960
<v Speaker 1>because his reputation is so stellar.

0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:59.360
<v Speaker 3>It's a Mount Rushmore thing. And I even think it's

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.160
<v Speaker 3>kind of funny because I can tell that you were

0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:06.879
<v Speaker 3>raised with him as the hero, because you even said,

0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:09.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, he got himself into trouble, you know, killed

0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:14.960
<v Speaker 3>the guy, and then yeah, I just gotta just kind

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:15.640
<v Speaker 3>of killed the guy.

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.320
<v Speaker 2>You like glossed over it, right a little bit.

0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, back in the day you glossed over

0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:22.320
<v Speaker 1>because he was a hero, but now you gloss over

0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:25.359
<v Speaker 1>because you don't want that kind of violence in the story.

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:27.520
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna have to scrip over.

0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:33.760
<v Speaker 3>It's definitely something that has emerged in culture, kind of

0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.960
<v Speaker 3>the acceptance of the flawed hero.

0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.680
<v Speaker 3>You know, like if you just take Batman for instance,

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.439
<v Speaker 3>like the Michael Keaton Batman of the nineties was just

0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.320
<v Speaker 3>a cool guy. Yeah, you know, got the ladies, had

0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:52.879
<v Speaker 3>a lot of money, and just fought crime right, no

0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.840
<v Speaker 3>issues except for the Joker. And now we make Batman

0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.960
<v Speaker 3>movies that are dark and he's got all these flaws

0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:04.399
<v Speaker 3>and you know, he's tormented and all these things, and

0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:10.680
<v Speaker 3>I think it makes them less heroic and more approachable

0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 3>for people watching the stories. I feel like we are

0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.479
<v Speaker 3>doing that more now in the church, at least than

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:23.480
<v Speaker 3>when I grew up. It used to be be like Moses,

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.119
<v Speaker 3>you know, part the seas God can do anything through you,

0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:31.640
<v Speaker 3>be bold, And I feel like we are having more

0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:36.399
<v Speaker 3>conversations about wait, no, but was he was broken? He

0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:37.600
<v Speaker 3>was flawed, and that's okay.

0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.600
<v Speaker 1>And I think there's a continuum there, you know, like

0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:42.639
<v Speaker 1>it's unhealthy to be over there on the hero worship side,

0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 1>and that's true culturally, you know, that's true.

0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Politically that's true.

0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:51.080
<v Speaker 1>And then it's also almost equally as dangerous to be

0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:55.800
<v Speaker 1>on the cynical side of everybody's you know, broken and

0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:58.879
<v Speaker 1>they're not who they say they are and they're hypocritical

0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.480
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, and somewhere in the middle is they're human

0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:05.200
<v Speaker 1>and they do have faults, and we don't cancel them

0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:08.880
<v Speaker 1>over that or hate them over that, you know, And

0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:12.200
<v Speaker 1>one of those startling messages of the scripture is in

0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:16.119
<v Speaker 1>all things God works for the good. Not everything is good.

0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:18.080
<v Speaker 1>There's a whole lot of things that are not good.

0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:20.840
<v Speaker 1>There a lot of people that are broken in such

0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:24.520
<v Speaker 1>significant ways, and yet God promises to bring good out

0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:26.879
<v Speaker 1>of it. So it might and it's fascinating. You know,

0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 1>I started the segment today quoting Lord of the Rings.

0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, that is the story. You know, Smiegel is

0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:38.720
<v Speaker 1>this character that's so deeply flawed, and yet the resolution

0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:41.600
<v Speaker 1>of the story can't happen without him. It is ultimately

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:45.800
<v Speaker 1>his own brokenness and those very things that causes the

0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:48.520
<v Speaker 1>final redemption and the destruction of the Ring and all

0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:51.239
<v Speaker 1>of those things. Sorry if I'm spoiler here, it's an

0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:54.760
<v Speaker 1>old story, but you know, I think that is kind

0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:58.439
<v Speaker 1>of our hope that the brokenness not only we can

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:01.200
<v Speaker 1>be used in spite of it, but somehow we're uniquely

0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:05.960
<v Speaker 1>qualified to be of use in life, in you know, relationships,

0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:08.840
<v Speaker 1>in so often our pain is really what we have

0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:12.639
<v Speaker 1>to share, and it makes us useful in very specific ways.

0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:16.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think what I'm getting at those like I

0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:22.719
<v Speaker 3>think sometimes we glorify religious leaders a little bit, and

0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:25.240
<v Speaker 3>we think that they have something that we don't have

0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:29.840
<v Speaker 3>some kind of holiness, which is why Number one, it's

0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:32.919
<v Speaker 3>why we're so shocked when there's like a scandal like

0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:35.120
<v Speaker 3>that person cheated on his wife. I thought they were

0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:37.639
<v Speaker 3>so holy. Right, They're just a human. They're just the

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:42.640
<v Speaker 3>normal broken person that God is using in a specific way. Right.

0:26:43.040 --> 0:26:45.240
<v Speaker 3>And then it also makes us go, well, I could

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:49.840
<v Speaker 3>never be that. I could never minister, I could never

0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:52.040
<v Speaker 3>talk to someone about God. I can never because I

0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:55.680
<v Speaker 3>am not who that person is. And that stops people,

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:59.160
<v Speaker 3>I think sometimes from doing things that they could be doing.

0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and there's aggression here. You know, God hears, God heals.

0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:06.360
<v Speaker 1>And next week we'll talk about God's sins because there's

0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:09.119
<v Speaker 1>there's a definite present sense.

0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:15.600
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like you say sins, sins. That's a Texas problem.

0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:18.480
<v Speaker 3>I know. I just don't want people think that you're like,

0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:21.800
<v Speaker 3>next we're going to have this amazing thing where you'd

0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:23.959
<v Speaker 3>like do this crazy thing where you're talking about how

0:27:24.000 --> 0:27:25.680
<v Speaker 3>God sins, you know.

0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Gather around the radio because we're practicing a new theology.

0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:35.880
<v Speaker 1>No God sins people, s C and D s any

0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:41.160
<v Speaker 1>sins broken people. You know, what a crazy, crazy reality

0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:43.600
<v Speaker 1>that and and how redemptive, is it?

0:27:43.680 --> 0:27:43.879
<v Speaker 3>You know?

0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:45.959
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I think we do live in a culture

0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:47.000
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't know what.

0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:49.760
<v Speaker 3>To do with brokenness totally. Yeah, we don't know how

0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:53.320
<v Speaker 3>to deal with it. Well, I feel like we think

0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:55.960
<v Speaker 3>we know what to do. We we point, and we

0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:59.960
<v Speaker 3>laugh and we condemn. To point the attention away from

0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:02.919
<v Speaker 3>our brokenness seems to be what we're good at doing well.

0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:06.199
<v Speaker 1>And I'm fascinated today by the level of anger in

0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:09.080
<v Speaker 1>the world. And some of that anger is directed towards

0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:13.960
<v Speaker 1>individuals who represent sides in our culture, you know, Conservatives

0:28:14.000 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 1>and progressives, whatever, Democrats and Republicans, and we hate the

0:28:18.680 --> 0:28:23.119
<v Speaker 1>people that stand for those sides. But we also hate

0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:27.920
<v Speaker 1>economic systems and we hate you know, systems of government.

0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:33.399
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we hate philosophical ideas as if one is

0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.399
<v Speaker 1>the right one and the rest of them are a mess. No,

0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 1>they're all broken, right, and all the people are broken

0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:43.840
<v Speaker 1>and all the ideas are broken. Because it's just more

0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:47.480
<v Speaker 1>complex than that, you know, And why we we need

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 1>to make heroes out of some things and villains out

0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:54.080
<v Speaker 1>of others. It's kind of fascinating to me. I think

0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:55.800
<v Speaker 1>we just want to be so sure that there is

0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 1>a resolution coming that if only everybody would do this

0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:02.800
<v Speaker 1>day and it would be okay. But as long as

0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:05.440
<v Speaker 1>you have human beings involved, you're always going to have

0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:09.479
<v Speaker 1>to be vigilant and you know, keep up and you know,

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 1>revamp and reassess and reorganize.

0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:15.880
<v Speaker 2>That's just a piece of it. Yeah, it's a piece

0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:16.520
<v Speaker 2>of being human.

0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this God sees the big picture. Yeah. Point it

0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:27.080
<v Speaker 3>is kind of interesting because I struggle with this. But

0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:30.960
<v Speaker 3>in the flip side, like I believe this a little

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:37.760
<v Speaker 3>too much, almost like fate, because well because sometimes with God,

0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:42.400
<v Speaker 3>sometimes in relationships with my wife, and I mess up,

0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:44.760
<v Speaker 3>I do something, I go Yeah, but in the big picture,

0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm a pretty good guy. Yeah, you know what I mean,

0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:51.400
<v Speaker 3>And so I almost like believe it too much and

0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:53.720
<v Speaker 3>I let little things fester because I'm like, but I'm

0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 3>like ninety five percent a good guy who cares about

0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:58.960
<v Speaker 3>this five percent right, right, that makes sense?

0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think you know again, we're we're in that

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:03.760
<v Speaker 1>same thing of you don't throw one over for the

0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:07.080
<v Speaker 1>other because if either one becomes really unhealthy. You know,

0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:09.680
<v Speaker 1>I only live in the big picture. Don't ask me

0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:13.440
<v Speaker 1>to be practical, you know, or you know, I forget

0:30:13.440 --> 0:30:15.520
<v Speaker 1>to look at the big picture and I'm lost in

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.600
<v Speaker 1>the weeds. I'm always down here, you know, being hard

0:30:18.640 --> 0:30:24.040
<v Speaker 1>on myself, are feeling bad or lost in the circumstances.

0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:26.000
<v Speaker 1>So I think somewhere in the middle of that is

0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:28.200
<v Speaker 1>you've got to have a little bit of big picture

0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:30.120
<v Speaker 1>and you got to have a little bit of responsibility

0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 1>in the details too.

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. No, I need to I need Everyone is always

0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:36.400
<v Speaker 3>saying like, you need to zoom out and like see

0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:39.800
<v Speaker 3>the big picture ELEVENM. I need to zoom in. I

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:44.680
<v Speaker 3>need to zoom in more because the reality is there

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 3>are times where the little things can affect the hole. Yeah, sure,

0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:50.320
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean, And the little thing that

0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 3>is festering can be the thing that triggers.

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Right something you know. Yeah, yeah, of course.

0:30:57.520 --> 0:31:01.640
<v Speaker 3>But I'm ultimately glad that God sees the big picture

0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:05.000
<v Speaker 3>even bigger than I am able to see, and knows

0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:06.680
<v Speaker 3>me on that level.

0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:11.200
<v Speaker 1>And there's something super redemptive about that idea of you know,

0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:15.160
<v Speaker 1>I need to be responsible for my behaviors and choices,

0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 1>but I don't need to be responsible for the well

0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:20.200
<v Speaker 1>being of the whole world and everything in it.

0:31:20.600 --> 0:31:20.840
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Somewhere between those two things where I want to do

0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:27.200
<v Speaker 1>my best today, and then I also want to let

0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:30.680
<v Speaker 1>it go to that bigger providence and that bigger picture.

0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:33.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is We're coming up on a break, so

0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:36.880
<v Speaker 3>I'll just start the conversation about this one and we

0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:39.640
<v Speaker 3>can tackle it when we get back. But this next

0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:42.360
<v Speaker 3>point that he sees our motives is the other thing

0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:44.880
<v Speaker 3>that I deal with, because this is also an in

0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:50.560
<v Speaker 3>between one because I can say to somebody that I

0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:53.680
<v Speaker 3>hurt but I didn't mean to, but my motives were this,

0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:56.720
<v Speaker 3>but I still did it and it still hurt them,

0:31:57.480 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean. And so this is kind

0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:05.240
<v Speaker 3>of what that feels like, borderline making excuses for actions, sure,

0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:07.320
<v Speaker 3>but also could be true. This is like kind of

0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:08.160
<v Speaker 3>a sticky one to sway.

0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I agree with that, But I also think

0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:13.600
<v Speaker 1>it's one of the more redemptive ideas because I think

0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:17.720
<v Speaker 1>the intention of our heart is really important to God

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:21.280
<v Speaker 1>and how how much it's important to get in touch

0:32:21.320 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 1>with that more than our performance. Now, our performance matters,

0:32:26.080 --> 0:32:28.200
<v Speaker 1>and obviously we can break this down, but I think

0:32:28.240 --> 0:32:30.840
<v Speaker 1>that's the heart of the conversation is why is it

0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:35.640
<v Speaker 1>redemptive to say God sees the hidden motives as opposed

0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:38.480
<v Speaker 1>to being you know, I don't know threatening or something.

0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>We're going to pick that up right after this break.

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back.

0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Healing Conversations with Dave Roberts and Eric

0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:50.800
<v Speaker 1>mclenahan on KABC seven ninety and we were.

0:32:50.720 --> 0:32:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Talking about motives.

0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I think that reality God sees our hidden motives.

0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:58.280
<v Speaker 2>So you said that's a struggle for you, Yeah, what

0:32:58.320 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 2>are you thinking? I think it's.

0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:04.479
<v Speaker 3>I think it's nice to know that God like really

0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:09.360
<v Speaker 3>knows my heart and I don't have to explain my motives. Yeah,

0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 3>because when I try to do it in relationships with

0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:16.000
<v Speaker 3>other people, it sounds like I'm gaslighting, right, or it

0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:19.640
<v Speaker 3>sounds like I'm trying to just get off the hook

0:33:20.000 --> 0:33:21.600
<v Speaker 3>or yeah, you know what I mean?

0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, and I think you know are you? I mean

0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:28.080
<v Speaker 1>that's the that there is a piece of that where

0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:31.800
<v Speaker 1>it could be comforting to know that God looks deep

0:33:31.840 --> 0:33:34.480
<v Speaker 1>in our hearts and see what's really going under. Maybe

0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 1>the way to say it is God sees the deep remote.

0:33:36.920 --> 0:33:42.239
<v Speaker 1>God understands us. He understands what we were thinking and

0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:46.080
<v Speaker 1>how but that works both ways. He understands that, you know,

0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:48.480
<v Speaker 1>we never intended to get that right, we were playing

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:50.960
<v Speaker 1>a game the whole time. You know, we were gaslighting.

0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:55.320
<v Speaker 1>We're gaslighting God. Yeah, you know, but he also understands.

0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:57.320
<v Speaker 1>I know that's not where your head was. I know

0:33:57.360 --> 0:33:59.600
<v Speaker 1>that's not where your heart was. I know that you

0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:01.920
<v Speaker 1>just a led to be and be led to see

0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:04.040
<v Speaker 1>and then you you know, looked in the mirror and went,

0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:04.760
<v Speaker 1>how did I get here?

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:08.719
<v Speaker 1>So I think it's a it's a redemptive idea that

0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:13.080
<v Speaker 1>God sees something deeper in us, and we're specifically talking

0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:13.760
<v Speaker 1>about Moses.

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:16.120
<v Speaker 2>He sees something in Moses.

0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:18.279
<v Speaker 1>That even though it turned out really badly, there was

0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:21.680
<v Speaker 1>something in there that was good. Yeah, something that was

0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:25.440
<v Speaker 1>defending and fighting for the right things and it all

0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:28.359
<v Speaker 1>went wrong. But it's just redemptive to know that it's

0:34:28.400 --> 0:34:31.560
<v Speaker 1>not about our performance, that God sees something more than

0:34:31.600 --> 0:34:32.840
<v Speaker 1>just how did I do today?

0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:38.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, he sees our potential. I think it's

0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:45.280
<v Speaker 3>it's kind of hard enough to believe that sometimes without

0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:49.040
<v Speaker 3>even adding brokenness to the equation, that we would have

0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:52.080
<v Speaker 3>something to offer that God could use, that we have

0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:56.680
<v Speaker 3>skills and talents or anything God can use. And then

0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:00.760
<v Speaker 3>there are times that our brokenness really makes us feel

0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:03.840
<v Speaker 3>like we're disqualified right that God could never use me

0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:08.560
<v Speaker 3>too broken too. What do you say to people who

0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:10.520
<v Speaker 3>are feeling that that way.

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, in my experience, I think it is the brokenness

0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:18.359
<v Speaker 1>that becomes the thing God can most use that it

0:35:18.400 --> 0:35:24.040
<v Speaker 1>allows you. I mean number one, pain, dysfunction, hardship are

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:27.239
<v Speaker 1>what we share in common, and it's the facade that

0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:29.480
<v Speaker 1>we fight to get past. And I think social media's

0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:32.920
<v Speaker 1>added a layer to that. My experience is when I

0:35:32.920 --> 0:35:35.759
<v Speaker 1>can sit down with people and I have a really

0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:38.640
<v Speaker 1>rare privilege. I mean, this is true, it's heavy in

0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:42.120
<v Speaker 1>some ways, but it's true. People come into my office

0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:45.840
<v Speaker 1>and share very deep things, you know, very deep pain

0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:50.000
<v Speaker 1>and trauma and dysfunction and you know, sometimes it's in

0:35:50.000 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 1>a marriage and you know, whatever it might be. Man,

0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:58.880
<v Speaker 1>that's sacred ground. That is somebody it is. It creates

0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:04.040
<v Speaker 1>connect to, It creates an opportunity to really talk about things.

0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:06.960
<v Speaker 1>And you know, we do a program here that's a

0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:10.200
<v Speaker 1>bigger program across the nation. It's called grief Share. And

0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:14.279
<v Speaker 1>what makes grief Share so powerful, Well, it's people who

0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:18.800
<v Speaker 1>have gone through incredible brokenness because of grief, because of loss,

0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:21.799
<v Speaker 1>but how therapeutic it becomes for them to share that

0:36:21.840 --> 0:36:24.880
<v Speaker 1>with each other and talk about it and tell their stories.

0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:29.240
<v Speaker 1>And so I think the pain, the brokenness is actually

0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:32.239
<v Speaker 1>an entree, whether it just affects us by allowing us

0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:35.240
<v Speaker 1>to have compassion for other people, or it actually gives

0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:38.279
<v Speaker 1>us experience to go, hey, I've been where you are

0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:40.640
<v Speaker 1>and I know how that feels, and this is what

0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:42.759
<v Speaker 1>I learned and this is one of the things that

0:36:42.880 --> 0:36:46.520
<v Speaker 1>mattered to me during that time. So I think our

0:36:46.560 --> 0:36:51.160
<v Speaker 1>brokenness can become the very thing that God uses to

0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:52.640
<v Speaker 1>teach us.

0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:59.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I wonder sometimes it feels like, you know, there's

0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:02.960
<v Speaker 3>a big fad right now with cold plunging.

0:37:03.160 --> 0:37:05.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, do you have you ever cold plunged?

0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:09.080
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm more of the in the comfort area of life.

0:37:09.520 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we used to do it all the time when

0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:15.000
<v Speaker 3>I played football at a ZUSA Pacific and you get

0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:18.120
<v Speaker 3>done with a summer practice and then you know, jump

0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:22.640
<v Speaker 3>in an ice bath. And it was a low budget

0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:26.240
<v Speaker 3>an AI school, so it was just literally trash cans

0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:29.520
<v Speaker 3>fill with ice and water, not one of these fancy things.

0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:35.359
<v Speaker 3>But there's something about a cold plunge where literally you

0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:39.440
<v Speaker 3>do it every day, but literally it hurts the first

0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:43.279
<v Speaker 3>time you get in. Every time, like there's no, there's

0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:45.719
<v Speaker 3>no When you get in after a minute, you get

0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:47.759
<v Speaker 3>used to it, but then when you get out and

0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:50.439
<v Speaker 3>you come back the next day, you're not like used

0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:52.160
<v Speaker 3>to it again. Yeah, you know what I mean, don't

0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:54.880
<v Speaker 3>build up like there's a and I kind of feel

0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:58.879
<v Speaker 3>like that's how this is. Sometimes that you don't, You're

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:04.040
<v Speaker 3>never gonna feel worthy. You're never going to feel like, oh,

0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:07.279
<v Speaker 3>I'm not broken anymore. I'm healed now, so I can

0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:11.399
<v Speaker 3>go do something. And every time you try something, it's

0:38:11.480 --> 0:38:13.960
<v Speaker 3>going to not feel right at the beginning.

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:14.479
<v Speaker 2>You don't.

0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:17.600
<v Speaker 3>You don't have to feel a certain way to then

0:38:17.680 --> 0:38:19.799
<v Speaker 3>go serve God, or you don't even have to feel

0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:23.120
<v Speaker 3>a certain way to then like approach God to talk

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.040
<v Speaker 3>to him. You just have to get in and do it.

0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:29.359
<v Speaker 3>And the next time you do it might not feel better, right,

0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:31.719
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean, It's going to be hard

0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:36.920
<v Speaker 3>every time. There's something about that that just just just

0:38:36.920 --> 0:38:40.479
<v Speaker 3>just do it. Don't wait until you're healed or something.

0:38:40.560 --> 0:38:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think there's a Maya Angelou And I'll butcher

0:38:43.880 --> 0:38:45.840
<v Speaker 1>this quote because I don't I can't remember. But you know,

0:38:46.320 --> 0:38:49.879
<v Speaker 1>we ask ourselves, who am I to do this? And

0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:51.920
<v Speaker 1>you know her phrases, who.

0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Are you not to?

0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:58.359
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think the hidden potential in people, the

0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:01.960
<v Speaker 1>gifts they have that they're afraid to try, they're afraid

0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:06.720
<v Speaker 1>to exercise. A quoted this before, but there's a survey

0:39:06.760 --> 0:39:09.759
<v Speaker 1>that was done of one hundred people that lived to

0:39:09.760 --> 0:39:12.319
<v Speaker 1>be ninety nine, and they were asked this question, if

0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:13.560
<v Speaker 1>you had your life to live over it, and what

0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:17.560
<v Speaker 1>would you do differently? And three answers emerged. Most common.

0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Number one, I would reflect more. You know that idea

0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:27.920
<v Speaker 1>of I would spend more time just thinking about life

0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:28.319
<v Speaker 1>and what.

0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:32.480
<v Speaker 2>It means and what it is. And then the other.

0:39:32.560 --> 0:39:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Is, I would celebrate more. I would be more present

0:39:35.400 --> 0:39:37.799
<v Speaker 1>in my moments. And the third one was I'd do

0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:41.279
<v Speaker 1>more things that live beyond me. And I think, you know,

0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:43.480
<v Speaker 1>how sad you get to the end of life and

0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:45.799
<v Speaker 1>go oh. The first one was I would risk more.

0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:47.839
<v Speaker 1>I would risk more, I'd reflect more, I'd do more

0:39:47.840 --> 0:39:50.960
<v Speaker 1>things live on because we played it safe, you know,

0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:56.080
<v Speaker 1>we didn't feel qualified. We didn't try that. And how

0:39:56.120 --> 0:39:57.439
<v Speaker 1>sad that we get to the end of our life

0:39:57.480 --> 0:40:00.640
<v Speaker 1>and we didn't use ourselves up. You know, we didn't

0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:03.480
<v Speaker 1>leave it all on the field. We kept holding back

0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:05.799
<v Speaker 1>and holding back, and we were never who we could

0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:07.719
<v Speaker 1>have been to our family, We were never who we

0:40:07.760 --> 0:40:10.480
<v Speaker 1>could have been in our church community or our own

0:40:10.520 --> 0:40:15.920
<v Speaker 1>community or whatever that is. And you know, maybe maybe

0:40:16.160 --> 0:40:19.239
<v Speaker 1>to think about this in terms of God heals brokenness.

0:40:19.920 --> 0:40:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Are we willing to try that out? Are we willing to,

0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:25.759
<v Speaker 1>as you illustrated it, take the plunge? Yeah, you know,

0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:27.080
<v Speaker 1>put ourselves out there.

0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:32.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. If if life was a black mirror episode, some

0:40:32.920 --> 0:40:37.440
<v Speaker 3>kind of dystopian thing where we had to wear our

0:40:37.480 --> 0:40:40.600
<v Speaker 3>brokenness and struggles like on our forehead, right or something,

0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:45.480
<v Speaker 3>it almost would feel good, Yeah, because you'd walk around.

0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:47.719
<v Speaker 1>And go, oh, me too, Yeah, disclosure.

0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:48.919
<v Speaker 2>Me too.

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:53.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh I'm not the only one dealing with this. Oh

0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.920
<v Speaker 3>look at you two. Let's talk about this. But we

0:40:57.000 --> 0:40:59.879
<v Speaker 3>don't do that. No, we hide and we go into

0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:03.000
<v Speaker 3>our little corners and we don't tell each other, let

0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:07.200
<v Speaker 3>alone tell God and that it's just not it's not

0:41:07.239 --> 0:41:08.000
<v Speaker 3>the way we were meant to.

0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 2>So we stay here to be in the book.

0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:12.399
<v Speaker 1>And you know, we've talked about this before, but I've

0:41:12.480 --> 0:41:15.239
<v Speaker 1>shared the story about Janesee and the recording artists in

0:41:15.280 --> 0:41:18.920
<v Speaker 1>the seventies and and she wrote a very personal journal

0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:22.640
<v Speaker 1>entry about her experience as a teenage girl. It was

0:41:22.680 --> 0:41:24.759
<v Speaker 1>inspired by an article she saw in the paper, and

0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:27.680
<v Speaker 1>so she wrote this diary entry and then someone saw

0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:30.439
<v Speaker 1>it and said, you have got to turn that into

0:41:30.480 --> 0:41:33.040
<v Speaker 1>a song, and she was like, no, this is very personal,

0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and she eventually wrote and did the song. I learned

0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:40.480
<v Speaker 1>the Truth at seventeen. And she said later that, you know,

0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:43.360
<v Speaker 1>that was such a self revealing song that she didn't

0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:45.239
<v Speaker 1>want to do it and it was very vulnerable.

0:41:45.520 --> 0:41:47.440
<v Speaker 2>But she said, throughout.

0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:49.600
<v Speaker 1>My career, young girls would come to me and say

0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:52.839
<v Speaker 1>me too, me too. And I think that that risk

0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:57.319
<v Speaker 1>of sharing vulnerability appropriately, you know, you got to do

0:41:57.360 --> 0:42:00.400
<v Speaker 1>it in appropriate context. But we all do have something

0:42:00.440 --> 0:42:02.960
<v Speaker 1>inside of us, and God does intend to heal it.

0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:06.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, there's this great Old Testament phrase that we

0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:09.319
<v Speaker 1>hear several times that God has says someone, well, you

0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 1>intended for evil, I'll use for good. What was intended

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:14.840
<v Speaker 1>for evil, I'll use for good. And that's the ultimate

0:42:14.920 --> 0:42:18.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of healing, isn't it. What could have broken us

0:42:19.480 --> 0:42:22.839
<v Speaker 1>turns us instead into people that you know we have

0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:26.080
<v Speaker 1>something to offer. Well, I hope what you hear today

0:42:26.400 --> 0:42:29.799
<v Speaker 1>is that wherever you find yourself, whatever your story looks like,

0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:34.839
<v Speaker 1>whatever has gone on, remember this God still speaks and

0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:38.440
<v Speaker 1>calls and includes us even in all of our brokenness.

0:42:38.840 --> 0:42:43.240
<v Speaker 1>The Biblical story it just contains broken story after broken story.

0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:47.240
<v Speaker 1>And yet these are the main characters of God's work

0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:50.080
<v Speaker 1>in the world and God's accomplishment in the world. And so,

0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:53.920
<v Speaker 1>wherever you find yourself, whatever's happening, take a minute to

0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:57.600
<v Speaker 1>be reflective, to think about where it is that God

0:42:57.719 --> 0:43:00.600
<v Speaker 1>might heal you, To listen to know God sees you

0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:04.239
<v Speaker 1>with grace and love and mercy and wants to embrace

0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 1>you with his forgiveness and with his grace. And so

0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:11.160
<v Speaker 1>maybe today you take a minute and you think about

0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:14.560
<v Speaker 1>how God might use you to be a force for

0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:17.120
<v Speaker 1>good in your own home and your own family, maybe

0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 1>just in your own inner world, to fill a place

0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:23.239
<v Speaker 1>of peace and redemption. And so as you go out

0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 1>there today, remember that God not only hears you, but

0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:30.160
<v Speaker 1>God heals God blessed, Thanks so much for listening. To

0:43:30.160 --> 0:43:30.759
<v Speaker 1>have a good day.