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Speaker 1: The news with Rhode Island Zicherman Jane Vellacenti, featuring news,

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Speaker 1: commentary and analysis on w PRO online. That's six thirty

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Speaker 1: WPRRO dot com. Here there are kids in Providence who

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Speaker 1: are not going to school. There are people in.

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Speaker 2: Providence not going to work for fear of enforcement actions

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Speaker 2: like this.

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Speaker 3: No way, shape or form would I allow our officers

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Speaker 3: to impede the ability are intervene in an action of

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Speaker 3: a federal agian within the lawful pursuits of his duty, whether.

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Speaker 1: It be the lawful civil pursuit of his duty or

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Speaker 1: the lawful criminal pursuit of his duties. Now on the

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Speaker 1: c CONK Supply hotline.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So the other day Mayor Smiley said, I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to let ice assemble on any city property. I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to stage here if they're coming, you know,

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Speaker 4: coming to mind down, to stay off the city property.

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Speaker 4: He specifically said, we got the civil action versus criminal action.

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Speaker 4: But the message is clear. The message is clear. Now

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Speaker 4: Smiley's playing politics, trying to court the progress US because

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Speaker 4: here's footsteps behind him.

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Speaker 1: Whatever it is.

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Speaker 4: That's what he said. We'll get into that. But you

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Speaker 4: just heard michah Mandi he's the union rep for the cops.

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Speaker 4: And with regard to you're not gonna let ice in

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Speaker 4: the park. But what do you want us to throw

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Speaker 4: them out? We're not going to throw them out, mister Mayor.

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Speaker 4: You can come and throw them now. We're not going

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Speaker 4: to throw them out now. There's a lot going on

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Speaker 4: with Ice and a lot of TikTok videos, people screaming

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Speaker 4: and yelling at them and whistling and throwing snowballs.

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Speaker 1: Where's your warren? Where's your warrant? Where's your warren?

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Speaker 4: Okay, let's get let's get ahold of somebody who knows

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Speaker 4: about this former what I'm at.

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Speaker 1: Attorney General Jeff Pine is on the line with me.

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Speaker 4: I've asked them to look into this warrent stuff, ice

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Speaker 4: and other things, other things to surround.

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Speaker 1: They get coome oning, Jeff. Nice to have you on again.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Jane, how are you.

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Speaker 1: Everything's good on my end, I'm sure it is on yours.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Ice comes in. Okay.

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Speaker 4: They say they're looking for a Trendiogua gang member on

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Speaker 4: the third floor of a triple decker in Providence somewhere.

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Speaker 4: They have a right to go get him. What does

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Speaker 4: the loss say?

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Speaker 2: So There are two kinds of warrants that operate in

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Speaker 2: this situation. One is an internal administrator warrant that's signed

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Speaker 2: by an ICE official that allows ICE to arrest somebody

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Speaker 2: on public property or in a public place. The other

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Speaker 2: kind is a judicial warrant, which is exactly what it

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Speaker 2: sounds like. It's signed by a judge that allows ICE

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Speaker 2: to go into a private residence or private business and

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Speaker 2: arrest an individual inside that business. So, in your triple

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Speaker 2: decker example, they would not be able to go inside

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Speaker 2: unless the owner consents. They would not be able to

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Speaker 2: go inside unless they have a judicial warrant.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so they have a judicial warrant. And I don't

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Speaker 4: want to get it too complicated, but we have a

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Speaker 4: judicial warrant. The person we're looking for is up on

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Speaker 4: the third floor. They suspect he is a criminal. Now

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Speaker 4: the landlord doesn't live there, but landlasentee landlord. Do they

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Speaker 4: have to get the landlord's permission before going in the

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Speaker 4: front door and walking upstairs or going in upstairs. Knocking

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Speaker 4: on the door with the proper warrant is enough to go.

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Speaker 1: Grab the guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, with a proper warrant, it's enough to go get

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Speaker 2: the guy. If they have a judicial warrant, they don't

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Speaker 2: need the landlord's permission. They can knock on the door,

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Speaker 2: present the warrant, and the individual inside answering the door

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Speaker 2: would have to comply.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, they said, but if.

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Speaker 2: People who are in that situation, they need to ask

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Speaker 2: what kind of let me see the warrant, what kind

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Speaker 2: of warrant is it. If it's just an administrative warrant,

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Speaker 2: then they have the right to refuse the entry.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 4: And interesting significant, So if you are the subject, by

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Speaker 4: the way, it's reasonable even if you're here illegally with

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Speaker 4: what are your circumstances, that's reasonable for you ask do

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Speaker 4: you have a warrant to come for me?

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Speaker 1: And if they're knocking on your.

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Speaker 4: Door in a private residence, they must have a judicial warrant. Okay, now, correct,

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Speaker 4: assuming they do everything was done, the thing is signed

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Speaker 4: to doing everything right. Let's say the guy's wife is

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Speaker 4: in the kitchen with him. She is not a criminal,

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Speaker 4: but she is here illegally. What right do they have

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Speaker 4: to grab her? Because they said that if you know,

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Speaker 4: we encounter other illegals in the room, we're going to

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Speaker 4: grab them because we can't look the other way.

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Speaker 1: What is your understanding.

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Speaker 2: My understanding would be that they would need the same

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Speaker 2: kind of judicial warrant for her that they had for

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Speaker 2: the husband.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's judicial.

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Speaker 2: They go back and get it, but they on the spot.

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Speaker 2: My understanding would be that if they don't have a

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Speaker 2: judicial warrant for the arrest of that person, the wife inside,

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Speaker 2: they could not bring her into custody.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they could detain her while they get

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Speaker 1: what they need.

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Speaker 2: Probably, yes, probably until the proper paperwork is signed. But

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Speaker 2: the bigger question is how many times do they enter

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Speaker 2: a private facility without the proper judicial warrant because people

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Speaker 2: don't understand the difference, or may not ask the right question,

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Speaker 2: or may not be that familiar with it. Then ICE benefits.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so that is a legitimate area of inquiry. But

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Speaker 4: right now, if you're going after a criminal inside an apartment,

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Speaker 4: you must have a judicial warrant signed by the judge.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's take it out on the streets.

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Speaker 4: You see the guy you're looking for the same thing,

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Speaker 4: gang member suspected of crime. ICE wants him. They see

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Speaker 4: him sitting on a park bench. What applies there?

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Speaker 2: If they have an administrative warrant for his arrest. It's

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Speaker 2: in a public place, they can do what they need

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 1: Administrative is signed by their own superiors within ICE.

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Speaker 2: Correct, an agent or a supervisor, an official within ICE.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, what if.

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Speaker 4: The person is in a store and they spot him

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Speaker 4: in a convenience store, what applies.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, that's a and that's a private business. They

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Speaker 2: would have to have the proper warrant in order to

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Speaker 2: enter and or arrest the person. So they if they

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Speaker 2: enter and it's not a judicial warrant, then the owner

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Speaker 2: of that store would have the right to ask what

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Speaker 2: kind of warrant do you have and not allow them inside.

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Speaker 1: So the owner of the.

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Speaker 4: Store has a right to say, what do you have

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Speaker 4: a warrn for this person to enter my private property

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Speaker 4: to get him?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Now, assuming ICE has the warrants, they've done.

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Speaker 4: They have a warrant and they've satisfied it, and they

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Speaker 4: grabbed the person and they're coming out. There are protesters

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Speaker 4: these days that scream and yell where's your warrant? Where's

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Speaker 4: your warrant? This third person on the street, third party.

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Speaker 4: ICE doesn't have to answer them at all. They're given

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Speaker 4: the impression that Ice doesn't have a warrant. Ice may

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Speaker 4: very well have the warrant, but we're not going to

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Speaker 4: answer questions from an uninvolved third party.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: That's correct. They don't have the right to see the warrant. Now,

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Speaker 2: the person who's been being arrested certainly has the right

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Speaker 2: aid to see the warrant and be to challenge it,

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Speaker 2: which is the next step. If somebody is properly arrested,

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Speaker 2: they still need probable cause to detain them and or

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Speaker 2: hold them, you know, indefinitely. So the person being arrested

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Speaker 2: in that public place on the park bench still has

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Speaker 2: the right to challenge the warrant. But the third parties don't.

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Speaker 2: They don't have any standing.

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Speaker 4: But do you see the impression this is giving. It's

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Speaker 4: all these videos of a TikTok, the fighting, where's your warrant?

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Speaker 1: Where's your want?

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Speaker 4: They're given the impression that ICE doesn't have the warrant.

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Speaker 4: ICE isn't going to answer anybody. You're an uninterested third party.

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Speaker 4: It's like it's like I see a trooper pull somebody

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Speaker 4: over on the side of the highway. It doesn't involve me,

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Speaker 4: but I get over and I asked the trooper, you

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Speaker 4: have probable cause to pull this person over. I'd like

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Speaker 4: to know that the troop would he get the hell

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Speaker 4: out of here?

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Speaker 2: Of course, the same thing, same thing, same thing.

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Speaker 4: Now, another question that's come up these assuming that these

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Speaker 4: people are here illegally, to begin with, that they crossed

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Speaker 4: the border illegally. For all intents and purposes, they don't

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Speaker 4: belong here, what rights do they have regardless of whether

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Speaker 4: they came in legally or illegally. What rights does any

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Speaker 4: illegal person enjoy? Do they enjoy the same rights as

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Speaker 4: you and I do?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: As I said, they have the right in the federal

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Speaker 2: court to challenge the arrest and challenge the warrant. They

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Speaker 2: may not win, but they do have the right to

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Speaker 2: challenge it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is kind of a larger issue. In other words,

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Speaker 4: when I go to Europe, but just walking around Italy

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Speaker 4: or France, I enjoy certain rights if I got in

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Speaker 4: trouble or accused of something, correct, just as a visitor

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Speaker 4: from another country would enjoy certain protections here even though

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Speaker 4: you're not a citizen.

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Speaker 1: Am I correct in that line of thinking? Yes? Yes,

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Speaker 1: all right.

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Speaker 4: With regard to Mayor Smiley's executive order, saying Ice may

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Speaker 4: not assemble on city property. You know, listen, all I

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Speaker 4: can think of as a park, a playground. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if there's a city, a parking lot, whatever it

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Speaker 4: is that he doesn't want him assembling there to stage

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Speaker 4: a civil action.

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Speaker 1: In other words, he delineated.

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Speaker 4: He said, well, the civil action versus a criminal action

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Speaker 4: is that executive order? Does that have any legal basis?

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Speaker 4: Do you think that would stay up and stand up

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Speaker 4: in court? Or is that discriminatory against an ice agent?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not discriminatory, but I don't think it has

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Speaker 2: the force of law versus the right of ICE or

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Speaker 2: any other people to assemble or in a public area.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's symbolic in the large measure.

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Speaker 1: But.

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Speaker 2: Without the force of law, just as executive orders, you know,

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Speaker 2: issued on any level, don't carry the same weight as

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Speaker 2: something that's enacted by the legislature.

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Speaker 4: Take the last word, what do you make of what's

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Speaker 4: going on when you see these videos?

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Speaker 1: When you see well, but the other day we had

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Speaker 1: them run into a courthouse. They were looking for a subject.

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Speaker 4: The subject came out of court, they saw him, they

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Speaker 4: wanted to grab him, but he ran back in court

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Speaker 4: and they ran after him.

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Speaker 1: What's your thoughts on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a horrible situation. I know the individuals involved,

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Speaker 2: and ICE makes mistakes like any other individual or law

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Speaker 2: enforcement agency. That's why people have to be vigilant. People

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Speaker 2: have to make sure that the proper process is being

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Speaker 2: followed because they they're overzealous in some situations. Other situations

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Speaker 2: they're not. But we see many situations on the media

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Speaker 2: in which mistakes are being made.

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Speaker 4: Law enforcement makes mistakes. That's why we have police officers

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Speaker 4: review commissions. Law enforcement makes mistakes. Jeff, you used to

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Speaker 4: be the top law enforcement person.

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Speaker 3: You know that.

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Speaker 1: How would you square this.

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Speaker 2: Well in the car or an atmosphere. Getting an individual's

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Speaker 2: constitutional rights being protected? We do rely on the federal

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Speaker 2: court system, and in many situations around the country, obviously

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Speaker 2: judges do the right thing, but that's the last recourse.

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Speaker 2: The last recourse for these individuals or any individuals is

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Speaker 2: the court system, which hopefully holds up under the current stress.

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Speaker 1: Flite. We'll get some text, Jeff. That's a hot topic

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Speaker 1: after ight seven. Gene, You're wrong.

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Speaker 4: When in Italy, as a tourist you have a visa

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Speaker 4: and a stamp on your passport, it legalis do not.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't matter, Jeff. Correct, Even someone who's here illegally

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Speaker 4: enjoys certain rights when it comes to an arrest or

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Speaker 4: involved in any kind of a criminal matter.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yes, yes, I mean they do have rights

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Speaker 2: in front of the federal court, in front of either

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Speaker 2: a federal j or magistrate, they do have rights. Will

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Speaker 2: they prevail eventually if ICE has done their job properly. No,

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Speaker 2: If they're here illegally, then there will be consequences. But

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Speaker 2: they do have rights, at least procedurally to challenge the

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Speaker 2: basis upon which ICE is doing what they're doing.

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Speaker 4: Four four two says, isn't Kennedy Plaza city property? I

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Speaker 4: imagine you could make the argument that it is. He

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Speaker 4: wouldn't want them staging staging there. I didn't think of that.

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking more of a park or playground.

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Speaker 1: All right, Jeff Pin, good to talk to you. Go ahead,

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Speaker 1: take less word.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, obviously, what the mayor has

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Speaker 2: done on the civil side, there may be a remedy

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Speaker 2: for the city civilly to prevent that kind of collection

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Speaker 2: or that kind of staging or whatever we're calling it.

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Speaker 2: There may be a remedy civilly in the court system,

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Speaker 2: but it does not have the force of law on

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Speaker 2: its own.

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Speaker 1: And just before we leave the I just want to

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Speaker 1: underscore this first point.

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Speaker 4: Ice has the right to go into a triple deck

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Speaker 4: or go up to the third foe, knock on the

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Speaker 4: door and looking for a criminal. However, they must have

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Speaker 4: a judicial warrant signed by a judge to grab him,

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Speaker 4: and that person has the right to ask do you

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Speaker 4: have a warrant for me? A third party downstairs on

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Speaker 4: the street, a protester does not have the right to

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Speaker 4: ask that, and if Ice doesn't answer them, they don't

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Speaker 4: imply that they don't have it. With regard to grabbing

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Speaker 4: somebody on a park bench, that is an administrative warrant, Jeff.

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Speaker 4: And the difference between that is that it's signed within

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Speaker 4: within within.

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Speaker 1: Ice right, all correct? Okay, Hey, good discussion, Thanks Jeff.

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Speaker 1: Good to catch up with you.

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Speaker 2: I'm here all right the day.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Assume you two