WEBVTT - John Hiller reflects what it means to win a World Series

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Externing Postgame Show with Bill laskiam

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<v Speaker 1>delighted to bring a friend on. He pitched fifteen years

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<v Speaker 1>in Major League Baseball. In nineteen sixty eight, he was

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<v Speaker 1>on the World Series team with the Detroit Tigers. He's

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<v Speaker 1>also the American League Fire of the Year in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy three, and he was also inducted into the Canadian

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<v Speaker 1>Baseball Hall of Fame. My good friend, John Hiller, how

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<v Speaker 1>are you John?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Billy? Good morning?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how are you doing? Everything good in Michigan?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right now. We got rid of some of that

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<v Speaker 2>smoke here a few days ago, but yeah, it's everything's

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<v Speaker 2>nice and peaceful. Quiet. You know, I've your listeners. Most

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<v Speaker 2>of them are familiar, I think, with the up the

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<v Speaker 2>Upper Peninsula of Michigan. So I'm five hundred miles from

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<v Speaker 2>Detroit right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, listen, you grew up in Toronto, Canada, and right

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<v Speaker 1>now there's about thirty players that were born in Canada.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me a little bit about the British Columbia and

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<v Speaker 1>how they draft players and more scouts now are up

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<v Speaker 1>in Canada.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when I like, boy who go back when I

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<v Speaker 2>was playing, I think Fergie Jenkins was the only other

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<v Speaker 2>Canadian at the time playing. There might have been a

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<v Speaker 2>couple more, but they didn't really have scouts that often.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, my coach was a Bob Werner and he

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<v Speaker 2>was playing a little bit in the Indians with their

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<v Speaker 2>team way back, and he stayed in Toronto, and we

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<v Speaker 2>had a team that we go out on Friday nights.

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<v Speaker 2>And he put a word into the fellow named Sy

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<v Speaker 2>Williams out of Buffalo, and Si came up and watched

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<v Speaker 2>me pitch one game. It happened to be the first

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<v Speaker 2>time there was lights at our ballpark, and he couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>find the park and then he saw the lights and

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<v Speaker 2>I happened to strike out twenty two guys in seven

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<v Speaker 2>innings in that game.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess they shine you immediately after that, Josh.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that sign that allowed me to get a great

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<v Speaker 2>bonus of a pair of spikes. Honestly, goodness, that's what

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<v Speaker 2>it was.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, growing up in Toronto, it was just

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<v Speaker 1>like me growing up in Ohio. The springs were very cold.

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<v Speaker 1>It was very difficult to play on hard ground and

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<v Speaker 1>freezing temperatures. How did you play in spring baseball up

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<v Speaker 1>in Toronto?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it wasn't you know as a kid, you don't know, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean up here, up here in the up they're

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<v Speaker 2>out there almost when the snow is still in the ground.

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<v Speaker 2>Here is trying to get baseball season going. So we

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<v Speaker 2>didn't notice. And I was a frustrated hockey player. I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to play so badly and I was not very good,

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<v Speaker 2>and just a bunch of my chums they got together

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<v Speaker 2>and said let's go play. And we didn't have Little

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<v Speaker 2>League or Babe Ruth Kawanas ran most of our little

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<v Speaker 2>league stuff. But and we didn't have any uniforms. We

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<v Speaker 2>had a hat and a shirt and you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>just we went out and played baseball. And I just

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<v Speaker 2>was very fortunate that I could throw strikes, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>at a young age, and that was probably caught the

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<v Speaker 2>eye of a few people because I didn't walk any

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<v Speaker 2>batters hardly. Ever.

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<v Speaker 1>John Hiller joined me on the Exter Earning postgame show.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course you came up as a starting pitcher. We

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<v Speaker 1>didn't really have bullpins and closers back in the day.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody wanted to go nine innings and that was one

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<v Speaker 1>of the things that you just said. You struck out

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two guys. Being a starting pitcher at that time,

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<v Speaker 1>that's what you wanted to be in the big leagues,

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<v Speaker 1>and you ended up coming to the big leagues in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty five at twenty two years old. Tell me

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about the minor leagues and then getting

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<v Speaker 1>that jump to the big leagues.

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<v Speaker 2>John, Yeah, that was probably a shock to me. I

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<v Speaker 2>was in Double A ball at the time, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they tried you. As you know, they called people up

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<v Speaker 2>in September, and I went up in September that year

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty five. My first batter was Gene Freeze

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<v Speaker 2>and I struck them out. That's about all I remember

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<v Speaker 2>about that game, and I didn't I don't think I

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<v Speaker 2>pitched a whole lot. Charlie Dressen was a manager. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't even think he knew my name. He always whistled.

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<v Speaker 2>He called me hate kid. So you know, we did

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<v Speaker 2>what we wanted we could. Of course, like you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 2>everybody wanted to be a starter. But you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>had four good starters in sixty seven sixty eight, Denny McClain,

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<v Speaker 2>Mickey Lolitz, Joe Sparma, and Earl Wilson and Pat Dobson

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<v Speaker 2>was my roommate and him being right handed, me being

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<v Speaker 2>left so we'd fill in on Sunday doubleheaders or if

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<v Speaker 2>somebody got injured, and if there was predominantly right handers,

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<v Speaker 2>he would pitch, and vice versa for me if there

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<v Speaker 2>was left handers. So, as you mentioned, I don't even

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<v Speaker 2>know if I got a half a dozen saves in

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<v Speaker 2>the sixties, they just didn't Danny McClain talk with him,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess the other day. He was known to tell

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<v Speaker 2>a manager to get back to the bench. I'min in

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<v Speaker 2>his games, and Mickey lolich, my stuff didn't look very

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<v Speaker 2>good if I came in after Mickey. So Mickey completed,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, twenty some odd games every year. Also, it's

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<v Speaker 2>three hundred plus innings. So our role was a spot starter,

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<v Speaker 2>long man, middleman, sometimes short man. But we just did

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<v Speaker 2>what we were asked, especially as a rookie in the

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<v Speaker 2>first few years.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, John, you just said it. Four man pitching staff,

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<v Speaker 1>four man starting staff. They completed most of the games.

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<v Speaker 1>When you talk about Denny McClain twenty eight complete games

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen sixty eight. But you also had a big

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<v Speaker 1>part in that. Nineteen sixty eight you were nine and

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<v Speaker 1>six and thirty nine games, twelve started, thirteen completed to

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<v Speaker 1>have finished, and you ended up throwing one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eight innings. Really a solid year and a couple saves,

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<v Speaker 1>but you were more or less that middle guy to

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<v Speaker 1>go to with Pat Dobson as the closer. But was

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<v Speaker 1>it the bullpen used that much back then?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, on occasion, and we had Fred Lasher who a

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<v Speaker 2>submarine pitched submarine pitcher and he threw pretty hard from

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<v Speaker 2>down under. Darryl Patterson probably was the hardest thrower in

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<v Speaker 2>the team. He came in on occasion to shut down somebody,

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<v Speaker 2>so he just, you know, it's hard to explain. I

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<v Speaker 2>was happy to be there, you know, young kid out

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<v Speaker 2>of Canada, and all of a sudden you're in Tiger

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<v Speaker 2>Stadium and looking at thirty thousand people, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was just dawstruck. So we all did what was

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<v Speaker 2>asketavius and you know, the saves didn't come until actually

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<v Speaker 2>after my heart problem and I came back and Billy

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<v Speaker 2>Martin was a manager.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well that's sixty eight World Series. What a competition

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<v Speaker 1>that was against the Saint Louis Cardinals and again with

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<v Speaker 1>Bob Gibson being on the Hill against Denny McClain. But

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<v Speaker 1>it really came down to Mickey Lolitch being the MVP

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<v Speaker 1>of that series. What did you think about going into

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<v Speaker 1>that series and then you guys were down. You had

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<v Speaker 1>to come back and win that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, we came close in sixty seven. We

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<v Speaker 2>were just lost by a game, I believe or game

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<v Speaker 2>and a half and Boston, I won't say, snuck in.

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<v Speaker 2>We had a doubleheader against the Angels and we needed

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<v Speaker 2>to win three for a tie and four for to

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<v Speaker 2>win it. We just split with them. So I know,

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<v Speaker 2>we knew we had a great team, and sixty eight

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<v Speaker 2>was really an amazing because of how many times I

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<v Speaker 2>think it was forty times we came back after the

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<v Speaker 2>seventh inning to win ball games. So you know, that

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<v Speaker 2>excites fans, it excites the city, excites the ballplayers. And

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<v Speaker 2>be able to do that. I think we realized going

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<v Speaker 2>into the Saint Louis World Series that on paper, they

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<v Speaker 2>had probably a better team I shouldn't say probably, they

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<v Speaker 2>had a better team than us as far as reputation,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were coming off a World Series win the

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<v Speaker 2>year before, and they had Bob Gibson and they had

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of great players, So I don't know, we

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<v Speaker 2>just knew we came from behind all year long, and

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think we ever gave up. It's hard to

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<v Speaker 2>think back and say exactly what was on our mind

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<v Speaker 2>when we were down three to one, but there was

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<v Speaker 2>always a little hope, you know, we always always looked

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<v Speaker 2>at him when I coached. It was just it was

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<v Speaker 2>one game. We weren't down, you know, three to one.

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<v Speaker 2>We were just one day, one game down today, and

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<v Speaker 2>then if we won that, we were in that one

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<v Speaker 2>game down tomorrow, and just approach it that way. If

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<v Speaker 2>we thought we had to win three or four in

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<v Speaker 2>a row, that wasn't gonna work. So, you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>had some great breaks, a couple of things that maybe

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<v Speaker 2>Saint Louis wouldn't have done other times, and Willie Morton

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<v Speaker 2>made that great throw to turn that whole game around,

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<v Speaker 2>and then we should have known we were gonna win

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<v Speaker 2>it when Mickey Lolitch had his only major league home

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<v Speaker 2>run in the World Series. So we should have figured

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<v Speaker 2>right there. Hey, we got this.

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<v Speaker 1>John Hiller joining me on the extra postgame show. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>he was a member of that nineteen sixty eight World

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<v Speaker 1>Series championship with the Detroit Tigers. Bill Freehan, one of

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<v Speaker 1>the best catchers that ever wore a Tiger uniform. Tell

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<v Speaker 1>me a little bit about your battery mate, and what

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<v Speaker 1>did he make so confident with you when he came

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<v Speaker 1>out to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Billy was just you know, he was very intelligent on

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<v Speaker 2>and off the field. He was he had a baseball smarts.

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<v Speaker 2>He I don't know. He must have caught ninety percent

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<v Speaker 2>of the games. And honestly, I don't remember hardly ever

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<v Speaker 2>shaking him off. I just went out there. He knew

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<v Speaker 2>what I had, and he knew the hitters. I tried

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<v Speaker 2>not to get too smart on the mound. A few

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<v Speaker 2>times I shoot people off. He didn't work so but Billy,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, unlike what you see today more, Bill sat

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<v Speaker 2>right in the middle of the plate. He put his

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<v Speaker 2>glove right in the middle of the plate. And John

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<v Speaker 2>Say was our pitching coach, and he always said, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>aim for the middle. You're gonna have a little movement

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<v Speaker 2>on the ball and it might hit a corn. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know I could when I came back, I came

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<v Speaker 2>back with a really good change up A fellow named

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<v Speaker 2>John GRODZIGGI actually out of the Saint Louis system back then.

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<v Speaker 2>I think taught me this change up and that turned

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<v Speaker 2>my whole career around. And Bill Freehan I he would

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<v Speaker 2>just put down one finger or two fingers fastball curve.

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<v Speaker 2>He never asked for the change up, and I could

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<v Speaker 2>change up on my own and he could handle it.

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<v Speaker 2>He just it's amazing that I didn't mess him up.

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<v Speaker 2>He'd put down one and I could throw a change up,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think that made that change up so much

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<v Speaker 2>more effective because I wasn't out there shaking my head

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<v Speaker 2>half the time. He should be in a Hall of Fame. Bill,

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<v Speaker 2>He just eleven time All Star, great great catcher, good hitter,

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<v Speaker 2>not great great hitter, not great power, but he did

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<v Speaker 2>the job. And being out there every day and doing

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<v Speaker 2>what he did with Danny McClain and Mickey Lolich and

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<v Speaker 2>handling the young player, there's he should be there.

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<v Speaker 1>Well. John I was fortunate to have you as a

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<v Speaker 1>pitching coach one year when we were in Toledo together.

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<v Speaker 1>But I remember some of the conversations we had about

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<v Speaker 1>Johnny Sayin about attacking the hitters, going after him, getting

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<v Speaker 1>first pitch strikes, using the breaking ball as your secondary pitches.

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<v Speaker 1>What did you learn from him on the physical side,

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<v Speaker 1>and then what did you learn from him from the

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<v Speaker 1>mental side, because he was a guy that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>pushed you at times.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, on the physical side, he worked with me. I

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I ended up with a uh you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I could throw strikes and for some reason I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>make the ball sink. So he said, well, just throw

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<v Speaker 2>cross seamers, and event I don't know why this happened,

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<v Speaker 2>but my fastball would jump into a right hander. It

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<v Speaker 2>was almost it didn't have the spin of a cutter,

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<v Speaker 2>but it had the action of a cutter. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I was throwing ninety ninety one. I guess Bill Freehand

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<v Speaker 2>figured that's what it was. And so I wasn't overpowering,

0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.000
<v Speaker 2>but that little bit a movement And Johnny saying always

0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 2>believed number one movement and number two location. He said,

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you make a bad location pitch and

0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.080
<v Speaker 2>it's got a little movement, chances are he's not going

0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.480
<v Speaker 2>to square it up. So that's what he preached. And

0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:23.320
<v Speaker 2>psychologically he you know, he knew every picture. He got

0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.960
<v Speaker 2>to know them personally, got to know their mentality, and

0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.640
<v Speaker 2>he was just after a ballgame he had a bad ballgame.

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 2>He'd just come by you and he'd say, well, you know,

0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.640
<v Speaker 2>how's the family, how's everything else. We'll get him tomorrow. So,

0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.959
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he'd been there, you know, many many times,

0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.160
<v Speaker 2>and so he understood the philosophy I guess of the

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 2>picture and the mind of a picture mindset, and you know,

0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.920
<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of I remember playing and I'm

0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 2>not to knock Billy Martin because he got me back

0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 2>in the game. And I always thought on the field

0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.880
<v Speaker 2>he was one of the better managers. But Billy had

0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.120
<v Speaker 2>a thing. If you messed up for Billy, he'd go

0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 2>way around your locker the next day. He didn't want

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.480
<v Speaker 2>to look at you. He took all of that pretty personal.

0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.160
<v Speaker 2>But I think that's just the fact that he wanted

0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.199
<v Speaker 2>to win so badly he just to hate it to lose.

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, John, you had some health issues in nineteen seventy

0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.440
<v Speaker 1>one when you were twenty seven years old, and you

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.000
<v Speaker 1>came back in seventy two. But boy, in nineteen seventy three,

0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:28.160
<v Speaker 1>everything clicked. Sixty five games, sixty finished, thirty eight saves.

0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Everything was right back in. John Hiller on the mound

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.439
<v Speaker 1>one point four to four earn run average. You talked

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 1>about bringing that change up and another pitch in your

0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.120
<v Speaker 1>arsenal that really worked for you coming out of the bullpen.

0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 1>How did you feel that year and everything was consistent.

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I you know, it's hard to explain. There was

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 2>no reason in the world. Really I was before that,

0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 2>I tigre very average major league pitcher, and then all

0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.440
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden when I came back and said two

0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:06.280
<v Speaker 2>we had two closers in the bullpen, Fred Sherman and

0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.080
<v Speaker 2>oh Chuck Selboxer, I think that's what it was. And

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.600
<v Speaker 2>they both had some injuries, minor injuries, so I was

0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.200
<v Speaker 2>pushed in right away. After my second game, I was

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 2>a closer. So then going into seventy three, all I

0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:24.680
<v Speaker 2>can figure is I was in the best shape of

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 2>my life after the heart attack. And maybe your listeners,

0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I'll go back a bit. Listeners would be a little

0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:35.360
<v Speaker 2>bit maybe interested in this fact that we didn't go

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.960
<v Speaker 2>we didn't have rehab back then. Now, Bill, you know,

0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 2>you being a pitcher, you think about this. It was

0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 2>a year and a half that I didn't face a batter,

0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and physical wise, I went from two hundred pounds down

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>to one fifty. Had some infection after my surgery and

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 2>then I would build myself back. And I joined the

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 2>team about one sixty five, and all I did I

0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 2>was sort of a pitching coach and bring train and

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 2>for my first manager, w Overmeyer, and I threw bat

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 2>in practice to the hitters. That was the extent of

0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.440
<v Speaker 2>my pitching. And all of a sudden, after I got

0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 2>clearance from practically President Johnson's cardiologists that I was able

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 2>to go back and pitch, all of a sudden, I

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 2>sign a contract. I go into a ballgame in Chicago,

0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.000
<v Speaker 2>pitch three and then don't walk anybody. And then two

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 2>days later I'm the closer. And so I don't know,

0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, whether it's providence or whatever, somebody looking up

0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 2>for me. There was no reason, with my ability and

0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.240
<v Speaker 2>such to go in there and save seventy three games

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.920
<v Speaker 2>and then finish with seventeen wins and seventy four.

0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Phenomenal year. John That was just a phenomenal year, especially

0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 1>all the heartache you had trying to get back in

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 1>the game. Your doctors are saying there's no way you're

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 1>going to get back, and you kept pushing yourself, and

0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 1>you did a lot of that by yourself. How was

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.040
<v Speaker 1>it at times when you were sitting there all alone

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:03.720
<v Speaker 1>wondering if you were going to get back in a

0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:05.640
<v Speaker 1>big leagues. That had to be a lot of mental

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:10.120
<v Speaker 1>stright stress for you.

0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Probably in a way good year and a half because

0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.040
<v Speaker 2>of I was working and I had a motive to

0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:22.080
<v Speaker 2>do things other than that really bad I was. They

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.560
<v Speaker 2>had signed me, I said, like her a pitching coach.

0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 2>So I'm in Florida and I'm making seventy five hundred

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 2>dollars a year, and that's nineteen seventy one, I mean,

0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:38.520
<v Speaker 2>my goodness, seventy two, and so I'm sending whatever page

0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.960
<v Speaker 2>I could have got back to the family. I had

0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 2>two kids at the time and a pregnant wife, and

0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.720
<v Speaker 2>she had to move in with her family up in Minnesota,

0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't. I didn't have a place to live

0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 2>in Florida. They put me in actually Billy Martin in

0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 2>the clubhouse, and that was so crawling with cockroaches that

0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 2>they finally put me into the minor league complex gave

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.679
<v Speaker 2>me a little room there, and I didn't. I saved

0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.920
<v Speaker 2>by we got five dollars bill on the road, and

0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.040
<v Speaker 2>so I would split that between two fifty at home

0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:14.960
<v Speaker 2>and two fifty on the road because I sent my

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.760
<v Speaker 2>paycheck back and so I was living on two fifty

0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.359
<v Speaker 2>a day back then, eating big bowls and porridge in

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 2>the more oatmeal allid pordge in Canada, and I just

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.800
<v Speaker 2>sitting there and knowing at night, and my motivation was

0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.240
<v Speaker 2>I had a family and I had to feed, take

0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 2>care of and hopefully have a future. And that was

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.840
<v Speaker 2>a motivation along with just give me a chance to

0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:42.240
<v Speaker 2>get back and if I can't get any.

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Too, right, John, you had to get healthy, you had

0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.840
<v Speaker 1>to get that mark back in shape, you had to

0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.879
<v Speaker 1>get your legs back in shape. And the motivation was

0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:50.480
<v Speaker 1>there for you.

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that part was you know, that part started right

0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.320
<v Speaker 2>shortly after my heart attack. I remember in in the

0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Loop there was a YMCA I went to work out.

0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.280
<v Speaker 2>It was thirty five laps to a mile. It was

0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:07.480
<v Speaker 2>a track indoors went around the top of the gym,

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.000
<v Speaker 2>and I hated to run long distance. I just hated.

0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I took two laps and fell down on my face.

0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 2>My legs are so bad. And I would get behind

0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 2>some runner and squint my eyes and just pixing myself

0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 2>in the mound. And that said, and they all did

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.600
<v Speaker 2>the other workout, started playing racquetball, which really helped. And

0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, it took me six months and eight months

0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and I just got in the best shape of my life.

0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.720
<v Speaker 2>It's a shame I had to have a heart attack

0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.440
<v Speaker 2>for a wake up call, because I was a bit

0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 2>of a lazy ball player back in the day.

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.560
<v Speaker 1>John Hiller joined me on the Extra Y postgame show.

0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Tell me your thoughts when you got back on that hill,

0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 1>when you got back in Tiger Stadium, when you were

0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.600
<v Speaker 1>back in the big leagues, everything that happened before that time,

0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.800
<v Speaker 1>all like you said, run in laps, playing racquetball, believing

0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.120
<v Speaker 1>that she could be back in a big leagues. How

0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.520
<v Speaker 1>motivated were you when you walked on that hill back

0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:04.200
<v Speaker 1>in the big leagues.

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, that first game in Chicago, I was scared to death.

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Uh what was nice? The Chicago fans gave me a

0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.399
<v Speaker 2>standing ovation. Uh so they pretty You know, baseball fans

0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.640
<v Speaker 2>are sports fans. They know the history of their players

0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.879
<v Speaker 2>and what's going on in the world. So my first

0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.440
<v Speaker 2>batter was Dick Allen, and he's standing there. Threw a fastball,

0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 2>he didn't offer at it. I threw a breaking ball,

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.040
<v Speaker 2>he didn't offer at it, and It was almost like

0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 2>he looked at me and he said, okay, young fellow,

0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.240
<v Speaker 2>that's what you got to bring one of them, and

0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.600
<v Speaker 2>he hit one. It's the hardest ball I ever had

0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.880
<v Speaker 2>hit off me, other than my teammate Willie Harton later

0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.520
<v Speaker 2>when he went to Seattle. But he almost cleared the

0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.720
<v Speaker 2>fence and Commissy Park. There was a dent there and

0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.960
<v Speaker 2>that dent stayed for the whole time that that stadium stood.

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:52.280
<v Speaker 1>But did you.

0:19:53.800 --> 0:20:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Go and h and then to the game, Like I said,

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.359
<v Speaker 2>I pitched three and a Billy Martin was on the

0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.880
<v Speaker 2>bench screaming. He's yelling here the guy came back from

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.960
<v Speaker 2>the dead. He can throw strikes. How come nobody else

0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:13.200
<v Speaker 2>could throw strikes? And Bill free after the game he says,

0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:15.720
<v Speaker 2>nice job, John, I says, Billy, Oh, I don't even

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.359
<v Speaker 2>remember what went on out there. I was just in

0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 2>a fog. And he says, well, you crossed me up

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:25.560
<v Speaker 2>five times. And I said, I said, Billy, you caught

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 2>them all though, so my stuff mustn't be very good.

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, John, you know you talk about seventy three with

0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.159
<v Speaker 1>a great year, and seventy four you came back. You

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 1>made the American League All Star team. You were seventeen

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.879
<v Speaker 1>and fourteen that year, fifty nine games again, over one

0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.479
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty innings. Everything worked well for you, thirteen saves,

0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:49.200
<v Speaker 1>fifty two games finished. What happened the second year after

0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:51.479
<v Speaker 1>you had such a great year as a closer. How

0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.199
<v Speaker 1>did you get in so many games and get so

0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:54.640
<v Speaker 1>many damn wins?

0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:59.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think first of that was we didn't have

0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 2>a great team. It was just Ralph Holt took over

0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.439
<v Speaker 2>and we had a lot of young players, and we

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.159
<v Speaker 2>just I'm not sure what our record was. It was

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.159
<v Speaker 2>probably one of the worst though, And so I just

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.679
<v Speaker 2>I found myself into a lot of ball games, and

0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:20.119
<v Speaker 2>I could pitch every day. You know, I watch nowadays

0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:22.080
<v Speaker 2>when they talk he pitched two days he might not

0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 2>be available. Billy Martin had me in thirteen games in

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:31.000
<v Speaker 2>fifteen days at one time. I picked up eight saves

0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:33.760
<v Speaker 2>in that period, which made my whole year all really,

0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.960
<v Speaker 2>but I don't know, it just he kept I was

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.880
<v Speaker 2>in ballgames late. I might come in when we were

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.280
<v Speaker 2>down one or tied and we win a couple of games.

0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Always came back still, And the reason one of the

0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:54.760
<v Speaker 2>reasons I lost fourteen why I was about seventeen and

0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:59.119
<v Speaker 2>nine or seventeen and eight, and Ralph Holt came to

0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.160
<v Speaker 2>me with about a month left and he says, well,

0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.879
<v Speaker 2>you know the team, we're gonna do personal stuff. And

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:05.400
<v Speaker 2>he says, John, I'm going to give you a chance

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:10.919
<v Speaker 2>to win some more ballgames because Elroy Face has a

0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 2>record major league record of eighteen wins out of the bullpen.

0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.359
<v Speaker 2>So every tie ballgame I'm going to put you in. Well,

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.639
<v Speaker 2>every one of them I lost, So that's why I

0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:26.679
<v Speaker 2>end up with fourteen losses. I number go ahead.

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.240
<v Speaker 1>More minutes, a few more minutes with John Hiller. John,

0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.359
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to talk about a couple hitters, one that

0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.119
<v Speaker 1>you did really well against and one he got you

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>a little bit. So let's go into the one that

0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:39.840
<v Speaker 1>you pretty much dialed against, Reggie Jackson ten for forty

0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.879
<v Speaker 1>seven at two thirteen off. You did really well against Reggie.

0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.439
<v Speaker 1>Now he was a younger left hander. And then the

0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:49.000
<v Speaker 1>other one was Greg Nettles. He got you pretty well.

0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:52.160
<v Speaker 1>He was nineteen for fifty three. Two good left hand hitters.

0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Tell me a little bit about both of them.

0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:58.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think Reggie I with my stuff in the spot,

0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.240
<v Speaker 2>see I in my career, I didn't have the change up,

0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:06.320
<v Speaker 2>so it was against him. It was just fastballs and curveballs.

0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Back to Johnny saying, he taught me this little slurve

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 2>and that I could throw for a strike pretty often.

0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:16.680
<v Speaker 2>So I just kept the ball away from him, and

0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:19.600
<v Speaker 2>I just, you know, I didn't realize they even gave

0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:23.879
<v Speaker 2>up ten hits to him. I remembered one. But Craig

0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:27.600
<v Speaker 2>could go out over there with Greg mad Craig, there

0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:32.679
<v Speaker 2>was Nettles, there was Rod Crew and George Brett, and

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:35.199
<v Speaker 2>they all could little left handers. They all had some

0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:37.600
<v Speaker 2>power when they wanted it, but they could hit the

0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.560
<v Speaker 2>ball the other way. And when I had to face

0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:42.480
<v Speaker 2>a left hander that could go out and hit that

0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:45.160
<v Speaker 2>outside pitch the other way, I had a problem with him.

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.120
<v Speaker 2>And I didn't throw any change ups to left handers.

0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why. I just didn't probably have more.

0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.000
<v Speaker 2>But there were three fellas. I didn't see them up

0:23:55.000 --> 0:24:00.239
<v Speaker 2>to the plate. The tall I got a lot with

0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:06.320
<v Speaker 2>the twins, so but it could take a big swing.

0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:10.320
<v Speaker 2>I had a good opportunity of getting out, mainly because

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.639
<v Speaker 2>of the off speed stuff. Yeah, but the fellas that

0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:15.800
<v Speaker 2>could punch the ball all around the field, I had

0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:16.720
<v Speaker 2>a hard time with them.

0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Just did well, John, As we finish up here, eighty

0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:22.440
<v Speaker 1>seven wins in your career, one hundred and twenty five

0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:26.560
<v Speaker 1>saves over fifteen years. When you remember this, what is

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:29.000
<v Speaker 1>one of the biggest memories you had in your major

0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 1>league career?

0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness. Well, the biggest memory is, you know,

0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:37.920
<v Speaker 2>other than the World Series, and that's the obvious one.

0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:41.640
<v Speaker 2>Is just that first day coming back after a year

0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:44.720
<v Speaker 2>and a half what you know, what I went through

0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:46.959
<v Speaker 2>and my family went through, and all of a sudden

0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.359
<v Speaker 2>it was paying off. So we're back on the mound

0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:54.520
<v Speaker 2>and the doctors that treated me and gave me the okay.

0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:59.359
<v Speaker 2>So that game in itself a couple of personal games.

0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Is playing against the Yankees, and I came into the

0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 2>ballgame with bases loaded and one out, and I'm not

0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:12.160
<v Speaker 2>sure how that bad o caame, but then Bonds came

0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:14.120
<v Speaker 2>up and Bonds used to I don't know, he used

0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:15.720
<v Speaker 2>to yell at me when I was on the mountain.

0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:19.320
<v Speaker 2>You don't have good stuff. So anyways, we're up by

0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:22.919
<v Speaker 2>one bill it's three and two on the batter on

0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Bonds and uh Billy puts down fastball and I said, no,

0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:31.960
<v Speaker 2>he's sitting on fastball. So I threw a change up

0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:35.200
<v Speaker 2>and he couldn't even swing at it. He just sort

0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:38.399
<v Speaker 2>of stood there. He flicked and he's yelling at me

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.000
<v Speaker 2>all the way back. You can't throw that pitch. You

0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:44.600
<v Speaker 2>can't throw that pitch. At that time, I'm smiling out there.

0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm smiling out there.

0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:50.400
<v Speaker 1>So the memories as pitchers, right, we got him, Yeah,

0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:52.600
<v Speaker 1>just screaming at you. Most of them are screaming in

0:25:52.680 --> 0:25:57.560
<v Speaker 1>the dugout after it. They're always at you. John. What

0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:00.480
<v Speaker 1>a great career you had, and as I said earlier,

0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:02.520
<v Speaker 1>it was a pleasure having you as a pitching coach.

0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 1>One year. We had a lot of good talks and

0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:08.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of good conversation and our friendship continued. John.

0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:10.359
<v Speaker 1>But I just want to appreciate your time again today.

0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:12.919
<v Speaker 2>Oh I really, I appreciate it and I'm glad to

0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:13.560
<v Speaker 2>do it, Billy.

0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:16.600
<v Speaker 1>That was John Hiller on the exter Ning postgame show.

0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:18.520
<v Speaker 1>More coming up right here on K and B r

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 1>D Sports Leader