Speaker 1: Welcome back sports phone here on a Friday night, John
Speaker 1: Dickinson sitting in and let's go out to the UMA
Speaker 1: guest line. I don't I don't know if this guy's
Speaker 1: ever been a guest on the UMA guest line, but
Speaker 1: host by day, guest by night. Adam Copeland, the fine
Speaker 1: host of course of dirty work with Derek Poppa and
Speaker 1: forty nine or pre and post game here on the
Speaker 1: Sports Leader as well with Todd Husack for the home games,
Speaker 1: with yours truly for the away games. And we were
Speaker 1: together last night together now right here on these Sports
Speaker 1: Leader copes. Thanks for taking some time out, brother, appreciate you.
Speaker 2: What's up, dude?
Speaker 3: I have been a guest before on the YUMA guest line,
Speaker 3: but I'm really more of a Cash Creek text line
Speaker 3: or a Golden State Lumber and showroom text line guy,
Speaker 3: as you well know, Jed.
Speaker 1: Yes as I yes, a big Golden State Lumber and
Speaker 1: showroom text line guy. I am as well. Let's just
Speaker 1: dive into it. We had the pre and post game
Speaker 1: from the Chargers game. A lot of talk today about
Speaker 1: the younger players, in particular the young skill players in
Speaker 1: Dejon Stribbling and Kaylon Black so I think you have
Speaker 1: to start there. We both were looking to see Dejon
Speaker 1: Stribbling have the Charger game be an extension of the
Speaker 1: game against the Titans, and he really he delivered again.
Speaker 3: Well one of the forty nine ers best skill sets
Speaker 3: last year, one of the things they did better, or
Speaker 3: the thing they did better than anybody was convert on
Speaker 3: third down, and they lost one of their top receivers
Speaker 3: who was great at that in the last couple of years,
Speaker 3: in Juwan Jennings. So taking to Jon Stribbling number thirty
Speaker 3: three overall, I mean, I think the hope was not
Speaker 3: just had more speed and athleticism, but also to try
Speaker 3: to replace a weapon that was going to help them
Speaker 3: pick up third downs. You also got to remember they're
Speaker 3: not gonna have George Kittle. Seemingly for the beginning of
Speaker 3: the season. I know there was that chefter report that
Speaker 3: said he's got a shot to play week one. I
Speaker 3: think you and I are on the same page that
Speaker 3: it's more likely probably in the after the first month
Speaker 3: or sometime around that time, even if he's ahead of schedule.
Speaker 3: But having a player you can rely on on third down,
Speaker 3: it was really nice to see Scribbling out there with
Speaker 3: brock perty Now we're going to go to one demerit
Speaker 3: that we can hand out to scribbling, and you have
Speaker 3: to find one from game one and he corrected a
Speaker 3: game two, week one of the preseason against Tennessee. His
Speaker 3: only drop on eight targets he had seven catches was
Speaker 3: on the opening drive on third down. His only drop
Speaker 3: in game two on the five targets was what would
Speaker 3: have been a thirty three yard touchdown grab. So that
Speaker 3: stuff you want to see, you change a little bit
Speaker 3: or hone in on. But the guy's a rookie and
Speaker 3: he looked really good out there against the ones of
Speaker 3: Tennessee week one, So a great addition. I don't need
Speaker 3: to see more of him, I don't think in week
Speaker 3: three of the preseason, especially because I think it's a
Speaker 3: I think the receiving room is not I mean, we
Speaker 3: know it's not as deep now as it was on
Speaker 3: paper to start the year. It's also different looking than
Speaker 3: it did at the start a training camp without Rooky
Speaker 3: Piersoll if you got the addition of Deebo Samuel. Still
Speaker 3: haven't see Mike Evans, no Christian Kirk, And there's probably
Speaker 3: some debater question as to whether or not he'll even
Speaker 3: start the year on the fifty three man since he
Speaker 3: got hurt. I want to say it was day one
Speaker 3: or day two of practice at the start of training camp.
Speaker 3: So scribbling is as positive of a result or an
Speaker 3: outcome I think as a fan could have from a
Speaker 3: player they're hoping to see early in the season and
Speaker 3: to be a contributor. And it's nice to see a
Speaker 3: rookie receiver find his way into a game and find
Speaker 3: success even in the preseason under Kyle Shanaehm. We'll see
Speaker 3: what it looks like when the season opens, but I
Speaker 3: think everybody's expecting to see a lot of him and
Speaker 3: be involved in the offense early on.
Speaker 1: They need him, I mean, that's the bottom line. The
Speaker 1: reason to say you've seen enough is point blank. They
Speaker 1: need him, and you'd hate to see anything happen to
Speaker 1: him in a preseason game three after he's played so well.
Speaker 1: That would put Week one or anything potentially beyond Week
Speaker 1: one in jeopardy. Talk about Adam Copeland here on The
Speaker 1: Sports Leader, Kaylon Black, he was sort of the question mark.
Speaker 1: He felt a lot like last week's deajon stribbling, Right,
Speaker 1: He's the guy that you wanted to see. You wanted
Speaker 1: to see how he could potentially compliment Christian McCaffrey should
Speaker 1: he get opportunities, and he from the very first carry,
Speaker 1: I think showed an element that we really haven't seen
Speaker 1: from a lot of the other forty nine er running
Speaker 1: backs since Christian McCaffrey's been on this squad.
Speaker 2: He's a different case.
Speaker 3: Like you just pointed out, Dajon Scribbling is a guy
Speaker 3: that they need, like they're going to rely on him
Speaker 3: to be a contributor this year. I tell you what
Speaker 3: last night's game from Kaylon Black, I think was big
Speaker 3: for him, absolutely, but I think it was big for
Speaker 3: kind of like calming some of those waters. Like Week
Speaker 3: one of the preseason, we didn't know what his status
Speaker 3: was going to be. He was dealing with a bit
Speaker 3: of an injury. Jordan James has not been able to
Speaker 3: get on the field. He's been hurt as well. Isaac
Speaker 3: Garndo is still working his way back and it's seemingly
Speaker 3: played himself out of favor after the last couple of seasons.
Speaker 3: So this was a situation where it wasn't just about hey,
Speaker 3: you need somebody for Christian McCaffrey. It's what does the
Speaker 3: depth of this running back room look like if you
Speaker 3: don't have Kaylon Black or Jordan James healthy at the
Speaker 3: start of the season, so I thin had to bring
Speaker 3: Khalil Herbert back as a mere Whites and see McCormick
Speaker 3: is here. They've got a slew of guys who are
Speaker 3: back there right now in some vets who I think
Speaker 3: they'd probably like to hold on to one of those
Speaker 3: guys on the practice squad or as the third running
Speaker 3: back if Jordan James is not available at the start
Speaker 3: of the season.
Speaker 2: I think we're.
Speaker 3: Trending that way. But it was big, I think to
Speaker 3: know that you've got another reliable piece, not reliable, but
Speaker 3: a guy you think after one game you can get
Speaker 3: some confidence out of you expect to be a part
Speaker 3: of this offense.
Speaker 2: And I think his role expands the year goes on.
Speaker 3: I pointed out to you before the game last night
Speaker 3: that the most success the Niners have had with using
Speaker 3: two running backs in my mind, while Christian McCaffrey's been here,
Speaker 3: is the twenty twenty three season where Elijah Mitchell kind
Speaker 3: of became the grinder at the end of games. You
Speaker 3: didn't need McCaffrey to run out of the clock when
Speaker 3: you're up two or three scores in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 3: you saw a lot of split carries.
Speaker 2: At that point.
Speaker 3: You were able to spread him out wide and still
Speaker 3: go with a running back in the backfield. I think
Speaker 3: that's what Kaylon Black maybe offers you down the road.
Speaker 3: But we saw some really strong runs. Better runs last
Speaker 3: night is opening run. We were watching it together five yards.
Speaker 3: Then later on in that first drift picks up a
Speaker 3: first down on a third and one on an easy
Speaker 3: two yard carry. He's a guy who's gonna bring a
Speaker 3: different style of running. And because they've got Deebo Samuel,
Speaker 3: I'm really intrigued to see how they use this backfield
Speaker 3: because you know Kyle Hustcheck will get carries at some point,
Speaker 3: not tons of them, but he's a part of that
Speaker 3: backfield offense. You've got Deebo Samuel, who they're going to
Speaker 3: run tons of end of rounds with. I think you're
Speaker 3: going to see more of the wide back. I don't
Speaker 3: know why we would expect to see Deebo used in
Speaker 3: a different way, but if you add a different type
Speaker 3: of runner in the way that Kaylon Black is, I
Speaker 3: think there's reason to be excited.
Speaker 2: Not about spelling McAffrey. That's what everybody talks about.
Speaker 3: It takes you know, you'd never say, hey, Barry Bonds
Speaker 3: or Steph Curry, you need to take fewer threes and
Speaker 3: take fewer swings, you know what I mean. We gotta
Speaker 3: get those guys less work. What you're looking for is
Speaker 3: somebody that gives breaks to McCaffrey or gives the Niners
Speaker 3: offense an opportunity to let McCaffrey operate at the highest level.
Speaker 3: Because his yards per carry were not great last year.
Speaker 3: He ran into the backs of a lot of offensive
Speaker 3: linemen and they didn't get much push. One of the worst,
Speaker 3: if not the worst in the league in yards per
Speaker 3: carry last season. So it's not just about change of pace.
Speaker 3: It's about what does this allow in terms of diversity
Speaker 3: of the offense to do. And I think Kaylon Black
Speaker 3: offers you that opportunity, and he's really I mean, you'd
Speaker 3: love to have a guy with this skill set as
Speaker 3: a true number two. I mean, Patrick Taylor never moved me.
Speaker 3: I was even nervous a couple of years ago when
Speaker 3: Isaac Garndo was the number two guy. It's like, it's unreliable,
Speaker 3: unproven stuff. Same with Kaylon Black, but I think the
Speaker 3: style of runner and the role they're going to offer
Speaker 3: him different than Elijah Mitchell in style. I think I
Speaker 3: think it's gonna give them some more diversity and versatility
Speaker 3: offensively well.
Speaker 1: And it also, I think is somebody in Kaylon Black that, like,
Speaker 1: let's say you are in the unfortunate position where maybe
Speaker 1: you don't have Christian McCaffrey. I feel like Kaylon Black
Speaker 1: gives Kyle Shanahan a running back that is nothing really
Speaker 1: like Christian McCaffrey, but is very much the style of
Speaker 1: runner that Kyle could build a different playbook around in
Speaker 1: an interim and and be able to win with essentially,
Speaker 1: And I think we've seen that before. He's he's shifty
Speaker 1: but also powerful and so yeah, it wouldn't be the
Speaker 1: Christian McCaffrey offense necessarily, but I think the three really
Speaker 1: complemented each other, between Christian McCaffrey and deebo and and
Speaker 1: Kaylon Black. And let's let's not uh, let's not forget
Speaker 1: Sincere McCormack, who was gonna ask you about that maybe
Speaker 1: he might be playing his way onto this team toward
Speaker 1: the back end of the roster.
Speaker 3: That's kind of what I was gonna ask you, is,
Speaker 3: is Kaylen Black I think is. I mean, he used
Speaker 3: the draft pick on him, they expected him to be
Speaker 3: in this running back room. But I think Jordan James
Speaker 3: may have been the odds on favorite to be the
Speaker 3: number three guy or that third option for Michael Hasty type,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, somebody else back there the Niners
Speaker 3: could have. But if he's not ready, you'd love to
Speaker 3: go with a veteran as your third guy. And that's
Speaker 3: kind of the role Patrick Taylor had played. Now, if
Speaker 3: you're in that role, you probably got to play on
Speaker 3: some special teams too. That's sort of the third running
Speaker 3: back situation. That's something that Patrick Taylor did and I
Speaker 3: think that's probably why he was here, and he had
Speaker 3: a relationship with Bran Boyer. But he's on the IR now.
Speaker 3: But I don't even know if it's a Black versus
Speaker 3: Sincere McCormick. I think if you don't have Jordan James,
Speaker 3: McCormick right now is the odds on favor to be
Speaker 3: that third back, and probably even a guy you could
Speaker 3: split carries between with Black as the number two. Kind
Speaker 3: of a hybrid two three, is the way I see it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's somebody that I think you're going to have
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to keep around, whether it's
Speaker 1: on the roster and or the practice squad. But I
Speaker 1: think running backs do frequently get picked up off of
Speaker 1: teams practice squads, you know, around the league. It seems
Speaker 1: like that's one position where guys get plucked more frequently
Speaker 1: due to injuries and teams potentially running you know, similar
Speaker 1: systems and all of that. So I will see what
Speaker 1: happens with Jordan James in terms of the injury, because
Speaker 1: they do know. The Niners like him, But it could
Speaker 1: be an opportunity for somebody like Sincere McCormick to find
Speaker 1: his way onto maybe the fifty three, depending upon how
Speaker 1: it plays out.
Speaker 2: A couple more.
Speaker 1: Minutes here with Adam Copeland joining me here, John Dickinson
Speaker 1: sports phone on a Friday night, Cowing and Watkins, Watkins
Speaker 1: and Cowing. Cowing has the eighty three yard punt return
Speaker 1: for a touchdown. Watkins has a nice game and a
Speaker 1: great block on one of the big Sincere McCormick runs.
Speaker 1: If it comes down to one versus the other, who
Speaker 1: do you think gives the forty nine ers the best
Speaker 1: chance to help on game day.
Speaker 3: It's interesting because you're right, as big as the touchdown
Speaker 3: reception and a couple of those big catches, I think there
Speaker 3: was a twenty four yard grab out there from Watkins yesterday.
Speaker 3: As big as that was, the block is probably the
Speaker 3: one that Kyle Shanahan looks at and says, Hey, that's
Speaker 3: how you perform and get playing time in this offense.
Speaker 1: I start of put it this way, does the block
Speaker 1: in essence throw out the eighty three yard touchdown? But
Speaker 1: if you're looking at it from the Kyle Shanahan lens,
Speaker 1: does the Watkins block on the big mccorbick run, is
Speaker 1: that a greater net positive for Watkins than the negative
Speaker 1: of the field position lost the ball in the lights
Speaker 1: for Cali Like it feels like those could be the
Speaker 1: two things that ultimately maybe sway it one way or
Speaker 1: the other in Kyle's mind.
Speaker 3: Sure, And if Jacob Cowing does fair catch that ball
Speaker 3: and it doesn't bounce and lose it in the lights
Speaker 3: and costin niners thirty yards and field position, are we even.
Speaker 2: Really having this discussion?
Speaker 3: I think that's a fair conversation because the blocking is
Speaker 3: something that Kyle's looking at. No block, no rock for
Speaker 3: the receivers, and it's why it's been so tough, seemingly
Speaker 3: under Kyle Shanahan for receivers to get playing time or
Speaker 3: get on the field.
Speaker 2: It's why guys like Juwan Jennings show up.
Speaker 3: He's one of the best blockers in the league, and
Speaker 3: he was out there really from his first year and
Speaker 3: got opportunities in the passing game later on. But this
Speaker 3: whole offense is predicated on running the football. So really
Speaker 3: the question you're asking JDS, would you rather keep like
Speaker 3: a slightly potentially a slightly better receiver, because I think
Speaker 3: Watkins is the better receiver or the guy who can
Speaker 3: legitimately change a game on special teams. There's one that's
Speaker 3: going to be a more long standing, consistent one. There's
Speaker 3: another us An element here, and that's if you had
Speaker 3: to pick one, which is the guy that's more likely
Speaker 3: to pass through waivers and that you can put on
Speaker 3: the practice squad.
Speaker 2: And my thought is probably probably Cowing is my thought.
Speaker 2: I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think Cowing is the guy that would be more
Speaker 1: apt to be able to be put through and you could,
Speaker 1: you could bring him back. Watkins, I just think would
Speaker 1: help you more if he had to play the wide
Speaker 1: receiver spot. I just and I feel like even if
Speaker 1: you pencil him in as say you're number five wide
Speaker 1: receiver right now, or if it winds up being your
Speaker 1: your six, depending upon how you do the numbers, I
Speaker 1: think if he's your five, he's a five that if
Speaker 1: he had to because of injury, bump up and be
Speaker 1: a three, he would have the ability to be more
Speaker 1: productive more consistently than than Cowing. And so I would
Speaker 1: still probably lean Watkins over Cowing. But they got to
Speaker 1: figure out the punt return thing. I mean, they put
Speaker 1: Debo back by yeah in the game against the Chargers
Speaker 1: last night, like they are searching for somebody that can
Speaker 1: return punts. Well, just catch punts. If I if I
Speaker 1: about the age of three, just there, catch it now.
Speaker 3: Here if I had to, if I like, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of avenues, they could go here, right Because that's
Speaker 3: the thought is I would assume if it's not Jacob
Speaker 3: Cowing and he doesn't make the team, And again right now,
Speaker 3: he probably and this probably even depends on Christian Kirk
Speaker 3: and really what happens in this third game, He's got
Speaker 3: to prove he makes a mistake, Like in the third game,
Speaker 3: or a Muffswolle. That's probably it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: You've got to prove that the eighty three yarder wasn't
Speaker 3: an anomaly. But the offense is on the field a lot,
Speaker 3: and Kyle knows he's gonna need a lot of receivers
Speaker 3: when it comes to calling in the grand scheme of it.
Speaker 3: I agree with you having that element of a guy
Speaker 3: who can break the game open. And we talked about
Speaker 3: it on the post game. The Niners haven't had a
Speaker 3: putt return for a touchdown in a real game since
Speaker 3: twenty eleven, the first game that Jim Harbaugh ever coached
Speaker 3: in San Francisco. So how big of a deal is
Speaker 3: one special teams play in player evaluation is kind of
Speaker 3: the question I would ask, and I would say it
Speaker 3: probably doesn't carry as much weight as the snaps that
Speaker 3: Jacob that Jordan Watkins was playing in terms of the
Speaker 3: catches he made, the blocks that he laid, the routes
Speaker 3: that he ran. I think he offers you more offensively,
Speaker 3: and if you don't go with calling Deebo, Samuel offers
Speaker 3: you a fine like just a fine option. I think
Speaker 3: as a part returner, I don't think he's elite. I
Speaker 3: don't think that's an excellent choice, and it's probably not ideal,
Speaker 3: but I think it offers you that if you want
Speaker 3: to take that out and not put Cowing on the
Speaker 3: roster because you need to crunch somewhere else.
Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with that quick one here.
Speaker 1: I know you got to scoot get out to your
Speaker 1: Friday night as we both do here, and head into
Speaker 1: the weekend. But on the defensive side, the defense played
Speaker 1: well in the game, but I don't know that there
Speaker 1: were a lot of individual standouts that I feel like
Speaker 1: made a name in terms of the active roster in
Speaker 1: the regular season.
Speaker 2: What did you make of the defense?
Speaker 1: Because they did play well, But did we learn anything
Speaker 1: that makes you feel better about some of the concerns
Speaker 1: that you might have had pass rusher otherwise?
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of talk.
Speaker 3: This week about the secondary and how the secondary performed
Speaker 3: in the joint practice against the Chargers. I didn't think
Speaker 3: we saw anything that made me feel any different or
Speaker 3: think I don't have higher hopes for the defense. I
Speaker 3: guess I should say after that game against the Chargers,
Speaker 3: you know, again, one sack in the game, fine, but
Speaker 3: where's the pass rush and this was an issue that
Speaker 3: they had in the joint practices. Osia Digi Zuo Osai
Speaker 3: Digi zoo is moving. The pocket was potentially going to
Speaker 3: close on some sacks and couldn't get to Justin Herbert.
Speaker 3: This was of course reported out of the joint practice
Speaker 3: because there's nobody on the outside to clean it up. Now,
Speaker 3: if bos is there, maybe that's a little bit different,
Speaker 3: but you still don't have anybody on the opposite side.
Speaker 2: And that's what we've talked about for years.
Speaker 3: The one thing I'm looking at specifically and heading into
Speaker 3: two week three of the preseason, Ronaldo Green will see
Speaker 3: what his situation is. But Jack Jones seeming we played
Speaker 3: pretty well, a guy who'd been with the Patriots and
Speaker 3: the Raiders.
Speaker 2: He's looking to find some footing. And if he's like
Speaker 2: the veteran.
Speaker 3: Backup or he's your third guy or can spell Ronaldo Green,
Speaker 3: if he's not able to go, that's a guy that
Speaker 3: I'm watching for to try to make make some noise
Speaker 3: or really be noticeable. He had a couple of nice plays,
Speaker 3: had a deflection and batter pass away in the end
Speaker 3: zone yesterday against the Chargers. It was a Trey Lance
Speaker 3: pass on a fade into the corner and he batted
Speaker 3: it away. So at Quarner, I guess that's a position
Speaker 3: that I feel. You know, I don't want Green to
Speaker 3: go down, but I feel a little bit better with
Speaker 3: how Jack Jones played, and I've got some high hopes
Speaker 3: for him. But other than that, it's a you gotta
Speaker 3: show me, man. I mean again, twenty games or twenty
Speaker 3: sacks last year in seventeen games, an all time franchise
Speaker 3: loan for a team that's been around since the forties
Speaker 3: and JD they used to play fourteen games a year
Speaker 3: and they had more sacks than that, So you know,
Speaker 3: they've got a lot to prove. And I don't think
Speaker 3: we're gonna know or see any of that until we'd won,
Speaker 3: and beyond.
Speaker 1: No, I would agree with that in a major way. Copse,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, man, thanks for taking some time out.
Speaker 1: We'll be together before and after the preseason game number
Speaker 1: three forty nine Ers and the Raiders from Vegas. And
Speaker 1: of course you can catch dirty work every day from
Speaker 1: two until six right here on the Sports Leader.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you, brother, haveing your week done. JD taught you
Speaker 2: sim bro all.
Speaker 1: Right, sounds good. That's Adam Copeland. Appreciate him for joining me.
Speaker 1: More sports phone coming up right here on the Sports
Speaker 1: Leader