S1: Welcome back to Building Billions. Let's talk about default conversations.
S1: I have found myself having a more difficult conversations than
S1: I can count as of late, and it made me
S1: realize I've never done a podcast on how I prep
S1: for these conversations, and the framework that I use to
S1: make these conversations go well. You know, I do have
S1: to shout out my husband right now because he is
S1: the master of getting what he wants. And sometimes that
S1: is very frustrating because it even works on me. But
S1: his ability to guide a conversation, to take somebody along,
S1: a journey with him, exploring options, alternatives to finally land
S1: on what he wants and to get agreements. It's just
S1: it's almost magical. And I don't want you to think
S1: that it's magical because it can be learned, and it's
S1: something that I have dramatically improved on over the last
S1: ten years. He's still the master, I just have to
S1: say that. But for somebody who used to just fumble
S1: through conversations, not have certainty with their words, and it
S1: wasn't that long ago like you can learn a lot
S1: from what about share. So let's just dive on in.
S1: First thing that I do before a difficult conversation, well,
S1: let's qualify what is a typical conversation? Confronting somebody on them,
S1: not doing something, following up with somebody when they missed
S1: the mark, when they did something entirely incorrectly. Uh. Talking
S1: to people who just are great people but aren't getting
S1: the results. Talking to people that you want to succeed,
S1: but they're not putting in the effort that they used
S1: to in order to get to where they want to go.
S1: There is no shortage of just different ways that you
S1: have to confront things as you're growing a business. And
S1: as I'm growing our business, as I'm focused on how
S1: do I keep communication in? I go back to the basics.
S1: I go back to the things that I know work,
S1: and these are them. So first thing that I do,
S1: we use this assessment. It's called the R3 assessment. And
S1: before anybody gets hired with us during the interview process,
S1: we actually have to take this assessment so that we
S1: know what there are. Three is ahead of time. You
S1: might be familiar with Myers-Briggs or risk assessment assessments of
S1: those sorts. This is similar but different. It's something that
S1: we spent at least half $1 million make eight uniquely
S1: ours modified editing a few years ago so that it
S1: really integrates well with the other business topics and business
S1: philosophies that we have. So this R3 assessment is invaluable
S1: because it shares the person's strengths, it shares a person's opportunities.
S1: And it also has this list of like do this
S1: and don't do this when communicating with this person. So
S1: when I'm going to have a difficult conversation with somebody,
S1: I'm going to look at their assessment and I can
S1: start to understand, okay, how are they going to want
S1: me to approach this conversation? I am what's called a
S1: high influencer. This is this was titled influencer before influencers
S1: became a thing. I'm not saying I am an influencer.
S1: I am literally saying through the assessment results I am
S1: an influencer, which means I love talking to people, being
S1: around people. I love social interactions. The more people, the better.
S1: I'm also a high driver, which means I want to
S1: get all of the tasks done as quickly as possible,
S1: and I essentially vacillate between those two. Well, if I
S1: have somebody that I'm talking to who is a high
S1: analyzer and wants details, data, facts, spreadsheets, charts, sometimes if
S1: I'm not careful, I can entirely shut that person down
S1: because I am up in visionary la la land and
S1: they're like, but wait, did you say it was about 25%
S1: or was it 23%? And they're hung up on some
S1: stat that didn't think it was important or material to
S1: the conversation, or I'm just rambling too much, like I
S1: host a podcast and I speak to people and I
S1: practically talk for a living. I do shit for a
S1: living too, but I talk for a living, so I
S1: have an ability to use words. I'll always say it
S1: that way. And if I'm talking to an analyzer, this
S1: might trigger them to just not get the best results.
S1: Or if I'm going to give them feedback about the
S1: spreadsheet or the the proposed structure that they sent over
S1: to me. If I'm not. Precise in the criticism that
S1: a gimme an upset spreadsheet. But forget about it. Like
S1: I'm going to send them so far into their basement,
S1: but they're not going to be able to hear my criticism.
S1: So when I look at this assessment and you can
S1: use different assessments in your business, if you're interested in
S1: using the R3, we do sell them and we can
S1: get you access to them. If you want to shoot
S1: us an email at info at Carto. I'm happy to
S1: get you set up. You and your team set up
S1: with assessments. But with the assessment is twofold. First, this
S1: assessment has already identified to the person where there's opportunity.
S1: So if you can understand what those opportunities are you
S1: have the leverage in this conversation. You know how they're
S1: going to respond. And if you know how somebody's going
S1: to respond, you can get a better outcome just by
S1: preparing yourself. The second thing that is so valuable is
S1: if you're in a leadership position or you're the business
S1: owner and you're navigating a difficult situation with a team member,
S1: you could actually use the R3 assessment to get agreement
S1: on what the area of opportunity is. So let's say
S1: what the person that I'm holding accountable, that they are
S1: withdrawing from bigger projects that I have to assign to
S1: because they aren't bought in due to me not going
S1: with their initial idea. If that was a conversation for
S1: that meeting, I would actually print out there are three
S1: assessment results, and I would ask them to circle or
S1: highlight the areas that they agree with and cross off
S1: the areas that they don't agree with in this assessment.
S1: So once I see what they agree with and it
S1: says that a challenge area of area that's problematic for
S1: them is that they withdraw when something isn't their idea.
S1: I can then use that as coaching, and I find
S1: that sometimes it's easier to hear something in a from
S1: almost somebody else than it is to just like take
S1: the criticism. And what I mean by somebody else would
S1: be like this assessment like they are already agree that
S1: this assessment is true. So they can recognize this might
S1: be a blind spot versus Natalie. Just saying in communication
S1: it's a blind spot of yours. So that agreement that
S1: you're getting with that person, I'm telling you it's unbelievably
S1: valuable in coaching people. One but then ultimately to getting
S1: the result that you're looking for. The next thing after
S1: getting access to their assessment, understanding what they value, what
S1: their challenges are, what their strengths are. I'm going to
S1: look at what their goals are, because if I can
S1: tie together how I know they're going to respond, aka
S1: R3 to where they want to go, I have the
S1: ultimate leverage in this conversation. If somebody is withdrawing, let's
S1: just use this example. This is a real life example.
S1: If somebody is withdrawing from a project that I determined
S1: is a priority for this organization, but I can tell
S1: that they're passing it. They aren't really helping the team out.
S1: They're missing deadlines. That would be problematic to begin with.
S1: But with most things like this, just as like a
S1: little small caveat with most projects. The project isn't actually
S1: that person's job. I think that person probably has some
S1: other function in your business a bookkeeper, a analyst, a controller,
S1: a CMO, a director of accounting, whatever their role is.
S1: So if they're missing things on a project, something that's new,
S1: something that you're asking them to work on, the the
S1: easy rationale from their standpoint is, oh, I'm just so
S1: busy doing my day to day job, the actual responsibilities
S1: of this role. And you could take that at face value,
S1: but I never do, and I don't, because those projects
S1: are the things that move our business forward. It's not
S1: what everybody is doing. If everybody just did what they
S1: were hired to do and only fulfilled on those activities,
S1: our business could not grow. Neither can your business. Your
S1: business cannot grow. If new projects and new initiatives aren't
S1: being brought into the fold today to build the future
S1: revenue streams, the future opportunities up tomorrow. And so when
S1: somebody checks out of these projects and they use the
S1: I'm so busy on these other things rationale when really,
S1: you know that it's because they didn't want this project
S1: to begin with or they didn't like the idea, or
S1: they had this other idea that you shot down, I'm
S1: going to take not just there are three, but also
S1: their goals. When they say that they want to be
S1: the vice president of finance or accounting or analysts, or
S1: they say that they want to make more money, or
S1: they want to develop these skills to be able to
S1: be a better leader. I can use that to say.
S1: Do you think it's a good leadership quality that you're
S1: not engaged in this project? You're demonstrating to everybody, even
S1: though you're already a leader and you're responsible, that you
S1: aren't really taking responsibility. But how does that align to
S1: you actually saying that you want to make more money
S1: and have greater responsibility in this organization, and all of
S1: a sudden you're like, oh, that's the core of the conversation.
S1: That's how you get the behavior to change. For them
S1: to understand that the way that they're acting, the way
S1: that they're engaging right now, the issue that's present is
S1: stopping them from getting to where they want to go.
S1: It's it's not helping them. It's not taking them to
S1: the next level. It's not them showing up as their best.
S1: They're choosing to cop an attitude. They're choosing to be problematic.
S1: You're trying to get them not to have an attitude
S1: and not to be problematic without saying stop having an
S1: attitude and stop being problematic is how well is that
S1: going to work? Walk into a meeting along with somebody.
S1: Be like, you're being problematic. I could tell you have
S1: a bad attitude about this. You need to have a
S1: better attitude. Kind of reminds me of like being a
S1: kid wanting to have a cookie and your parents say
S1: no and you ask why? And they say, because I
S1: said so. That's how it feels to your team members
S1: when you just say you're being problematic or you are
S1: just playing this issue, it doesn't really help that because
S1: then they're just pissed that you're telling them that they're problematic.
S1: It's going to compound the issue, or you're trying to
S1: get is a different result. So you're going to communicate
S1: with them in a way. In this particular case, I'm
S1: going to show them there are three show them that
S1: it says, hey, you withdraw when is by your idea
S1: and then type, oh, why is that a problem? Well,
S1: you said that you want to be over this entire team.
S1: How can I trust that you are going to be
S1: able to be over this entire team if you're negative
S1: and withdrawn and products that you don't want to do.
S1: Let me ask you another question. Would you allow your
S1: team members in the future to. Withdraw and be negative
S1: on projects, but you are asking them to help move
S1: forward with and they probably go, no, said I. That's
S1: what I want to do. So super, super helpful tools
S1: goals always. And then this R3 assessment for game changer.
S1: I go into so much detail about this in. But twice. First,
S1: my book called teamwork. If you go to carnivorous.com for teamwork,
S1: get a free copy that I will send to you.
S1: You will pay for shipping, but get yourself a free copy.
S1: Invaluable as it relates to confronting difficult conversations and really
S1: guiding and building a high performance team. And then the
S1: other place is a People Essentials workshop. The book is
S1: one thing, but going through this, doing role plays and
S1: having these one on one interactions with me and our
S1: team in person. If your business is doing over $1
S1: million in annual revenue, get the book. But also come
S1: be this person, because this is just the tip of
S1: the iceberg as it relates to the people developing the
S1: content that I have. So part three on this. One
S1: of my favorite ways to communicate is through the vision,
S1: commitment and execution framework called A, B, C, E vision
S1: commitment execution. So how this works is I'm going to
S1: enter a meeting. I've already prepped myself ahead of time
S1: with what their goals are and their preferred communication style
S1: through process through the R three. Then I have to
S1: actually flush out what the ask is of this medium.
S1: Like what am I actually trying to get out of
S1: this conversation? So most people just go right into it
S1: and they start sharing why they're upset, how difficult things
S1: have been, all the problems. That's just you start the
S1: meeting up wrong. That's going to put somebody at the defensive,
S1: that's going to put them feeling like they're being challenged.
S1: And then you guys are going back and forth in
S1: a debate. I just want to tell you this. You
S1: do not want to debate your team members. There is
S1: no ideal scene where you are one on one with
S1: the team member, and you guys are going back and
S1: forth about something that you're bringing up. That's a personal
S1: issue or shortcoming. And you guys are like going toe
S1: to toe on this development area. Now, I'm good with
S1: going toe to toe and debating about ideas and products
S1: and finding to win for our customers, like, give me
S1: those debates all day long. But when it comes to
S1: somebody in their behavior and their competency in their role,
S1: I'm not trying to debate or put somebody on the defensive.
S1: I'm trying to get them to understand that I see
S1: this blind spot and I need them to see it, too.
S1: And we need to figure out how to work on
S1: this or else it's not going to work. So the
S1: framework BCE vision, commitment, execution. I'm going to start with, okay,
S1: why are we even having this conversation? The why is
S1: always tied to their goals. The why is always tied
S1: to their goals. The vision of the conversation is to
S1: get them and the organization closer to your goals. Now
S1: you can get really specific around this depending on what
S1: their goals are, as you should like. It should just be.
S1: I want to help you achieve your goals and I
S1: want the organization to achieve its goals. That's not like
S1: a check. Good job on vision. It would be more specific. Hey,
S1: I understand that becoming a vice president of our accounting
S1: department is really important to you. That's still important to
S1: you and that you get there by it. Yes, it
S1: is important to me. Or they could say no and
S1: then you have that conversation. But I'm establishing the vision. Okay?
S1: If being the vice president of accounting is important to you,
S1: I want to make sure that I'm helping you see.
S1: Areas of opportunity that will have to be addressed before
S1: I can consider putting you in that position, because that
S1: position is very important to the organization, and I know
S1: it's very important to you, and I'd be remiss if
S1: I didn't share with you these things that I've seen
S1: that hurt your ability to actually get to where you
S1: want to go. Do you think you have that person's
S1: attention at that moment? You sure do. So that's the vision.
S1: You're trying to help them get to where they want
S1: to go. Now, in that the next step would be
S1: your commitment. So how are you committed to helping that
S1: person improve and how are they committed to actually improving
S1: the vision you've shared? Okay. Why are we having this conversation?
S1: Why is this important? The commitment you're saying, hey, I'm
S1: willing to invest in you. I'm willing to give you
S1: these opportunities. I'm willing to spend time role playing with you,
S1: whatever it is that you're willing to do, and then
S1: you're also asking them to detail out what they are
S1: willing to commit to in order to get better. Oh,
S1: I'm going to take a journal of every single time
S1: I feel like I'm withdrawing, and I'm going to write
S1: down to myself, I am ten, and then I'm going
S1: to snap out of it and I'm going to like,
S1: rejoin with enthusiasm. Okay, great. That's one of their commitments.
S1: And then from their execution, what are the blocking and
S1: tackling that needs to take place in order for this
S1: issue to be improved? Now, this is just a framework
S1: that I'm using to prepare myself for this conversation. So
S1: I don't come in hot and heavy and maybe even
S1: flustered or all over the place like it's very clearly stated.
S1: Oh yeah, this is why I'm getting by and I'm
S1: connecting with the importance of this at the get. That's
S1: the vision. And then we're moving into, okay, where are
S1: you committed to in order to make this happen? Are
S1: you committed to make these changes? Some people might look
S1: at you and say, you know, I can't do what
S1: you're asking me to do. This just happened to me
S1: about two months ago. I realized that I was allowing
S1: somebody who was working close to me to have half
S1: the output as other team members, and I started to
S1: do this individual's job because I wasn't trusting of them
S1: and I wasn't confident in their ability to execute. So
S1: I sat down and I said, listen, come Monday, I
S1: know it's Friday right now. Come Monday, my intention is
S1: to expect out of you what the job description states.
S1: We hired you to do this role. You're doing this
S1: role at half output. That is not acceptable. And I
S1: cannot tolerate this any longer in this role because it's
S1: affecting my ability to do my job. And I'm paying
S1: you to do the full job. So my expectations are
S1: not only not being met, but you're not going over
S1: and above my expectations. This is a problem for me.
S1: So I want you to take the weekend, and I
S1: want you to think about if you are willing to
S1: put in the effort and energy to become better at
S1: these five very specific things. Or if you'd like to
S1: figure out how a transition plan can work, and we
S1: will support you in a transition, and we'll figure out
S1: how to make this go as smoothly as possible. And
S1: what comes around for team member says, I don't think
S1: that I can give this job anymore than I currently am.
S1: I have other priorities right now and this isn't working
S1: for me. Okay, great. Find the next person. We replace
S1: this person. And two and a half weeks. I still
S1: have great affinity for this person. Like it's not that
S1: this person's a bad person, they just weren't fulfilling the expectation.
S1: I've since backfilled the role and the new person is
S1: kicking ass in the role, so everybody wins. A new
S1: person gets to come into the organization and be valued,
S1: and I get the value out of what I paid
S1: to have this role support me, and the previous team
S1: member gets to go do something that's more in alignment
S1: with what their priorities are. That is a win win.
S1: That is not a problem. So framing that conversation using vision, commitment,
S1: execution means that I didn't just go in there and
S1: was like all over the place and super sloppy and
S1: rambling on and on and not being specific. I was
S1: very specific. Are you willing to do what is going
S1: to require. I'm willing to tell you what is required.
S1: Are you willing to do those things? Yes or no?
S1: You could think about it. Let me know. I'm not
S1: that super clear. The more clear you are in difficult conversations,
S1: the more success you are going to have when having
S1: the conversation. With that, I hope you enjoyed this episode
S1: of Building Billions. If you haven't yet, give Building Billions
S1: a share. I love seeing your stories on Instagram, on
S1: Tik Tok, on LinkedIn, all the places would love to
S1: have you share this content. That is how this podcast grows,
S1: I appreciate you. For doing that and look forward to
S1: connecting next time.