S1: Natalie, I'm very excited to sit down. We're gonna have
S1: a lot of fun. I want to start off with this.
S1: So your thesis is that 97% of businesses fail because
S1: they don't start the work. Now, I wanted to find
S1: start the work because most entrepreneurs would think I've started
S1: my business. I've started the work. This is not the
S1: work you're talking about. Why do 97% of businesses fail?
S2: 97% of businesses fail because they aren't focused on the
S2: right things. I believe that if you see a business
S2: in the e-com space, you see a business in the
S2: HVAC based space, you see a business in the chiropractic space.
S2: Whatever business it is that we're talking about, there is
S2: another business in that same industry that is winning, that
S2: is succeeding, that has figured out how to adapt to
S2: whatever the market conditions are. Even if you are a printer,
S2: and we know that there is less printing demand today
S2: than there was 20 years ago, there are still examples
S2: of somebody being successful in that space. And so the
S2: question has to become, what did that business owner and
S2: that team of people spend their time on that is
S2: different from where you are spending your time? They figured
S2: out something different. They figured out a better product market fit.
S2: They figured out how to message their product and service better.
S2: They figured out what they needed to tweak, and they
S2: really learned through the process of growing and scaling their business. Now,
S2: once you have achieved product market fit, my perception and
S2: in working with the business owners that I work with
S2: is that instead of focusing on the things that they
S2: like to do, they have to start focusing on the
S2: things that have to be done in order to scale
S2: their business, like creating systems and processes and truly putting
S2: the foundation in place. But until they get product market fit,
S2: until they're able to figure out who they're selling to,
S2: how they're talking to that person, all the things that
S2: you know so much about, they don't need to focus
S2: on starting the work, which is the book title that
S2: I'm coming out with and how I'm really framing that,
S2: because the work that they have started is good work.
S2: It's important work, but they do reach what we call
S2: a breakpoint. This breakpoint happens around the $3 million in
S2: revenue mark for the majority of businesses. And when that
S2: mark happens, when they figured the the way to message
S2: their their product and service to their clients, and they
S2: have continued to consistently shown that they can do that.
S2: The work is an entirely different set of challenges, and
S2: it is an entirely different way of thinking that they
S2: need to start prioritizing. And what I find is the
S2: majority of business owners just don't start prioritizing those things.
S2: They continue to focus on if they like the sales aspect,
S2: they're going to continue to stay close to the customer
S2: and figure out how to be a better salesperson. At
S2: a $3 million business, you do not need to continue
S2: to focus on being a better salesperson. It is an
S2: entirely different set of things that you have to start
S2: doing and force you and your team to put in
S2: place in order to truly scale that business.
S1: So I have an interesting story. So I will not
S1: name the name of the business, but I know a
S1: business founder. It was a ten year old business and
S1: the company was doing about $10 million in revenue. Okay.
S1: And the founder was responsible because he he held all
S1: the main accounts since day one because he was door
S1: knocking the closed business when he first started. And he
S1: was probably responsible for about $4 million of that $10
S1: million in revenue, which is absolutely wild to think about
S1: problems with exiting, scaling all of it. Right. So that
S1: break point at 3 million. You mentioned a couple things
S1: I want to unpack. So it's clear. So you mentioned
S1: product market fit. You mentioned break point at 3 million.
S1: You mentioned focus I think focusing on things that are
S1: fun to do but not necessarily scaling. So let's unpack
S1: maybe some of those concepts first just to provide some
S1: context and framework. So product market fit. How do you
S1: define product market fit for a business.
S2: Once a business has determined what their product is and
S2: that they are able to sell that product consistently through
S2: a single channel, through whatever their acquisition channel is. And
S2: they I don't have a metric that I use that
S2: I'm like, you are the and you understand the marketing
S2: and the sales, the CAK, the LTV ratio to CAK. Yeah.
S2: What we're looking for is in a standard businesses, HVAC, chiropractic,
S2: marketing agencies at 3 million in revenue. If you are
S2: not the person continuing to sell that product in your business,
S2: you have figured out how to have a product or
S2: a service. Whatever it is that you're selling, that you're
S2: able to grow. If you were to add an additional
S2: channel outside of that first channel, that's what we're looking
S2: for in the businesses that we're defining as product market
S2: fit for the SMB space. Okay.
S1: Cool. So they've they have one revenue stream and they
S1: have one channel. They're trying to figure out how to diversify,
S1: but they do have paying customers. Everything's working. They're hitting
S1: a $3 million. And I actually think this is actually
S1: interesting because I thought a breakpoint in the business was
S1: I thought it was 10 million and about 50 employees.
S1: So there when it starts to get complicated and that's
S1: when you have to hire, you know, talk about coup
S1: talk with iOS. It's called it integrator. There's all these
S1: different versions. Right. So what happens at 3 million because
S1: 3 million I'm assuming because a solopreneur could scale to
S1: 1 million. I'm assuming in most cases 3 million. What's
S1: happening in most businesses in SMB space.
S2: Processes break.
S1: Even at 3 million.
S2: Well, they can't continue to be the person that's leading
S2: their business. Yeah, they have to have other people, some
S2: sort of leadership team. It is not a C-suite. It's
S2: probably not even a VP suite. They're bringing in directors.
S2: Think of a state or sales team. You have a
S2: sales person. That's how you start your business. Most business
S2: owners might even be the sales person in order to
S2: duplicate themselves in the sales function, so that they can
S2: actually focus on operations, some HR things, maybe some marketing pieces.
S2: They have to hire a second sales person that is
S2: responsible for sales, of course.
S1: Yeah, but it's difficult because like if the first sales
S1: person is is the founder and they pass it over
S1: to one sales person, performance is going to drop immediately
S1: because they're not as invested in the business as, as
S1: the founder was. And they're already like, okay, so now
S1: I'm investing in this person. It even though they're getting
S1: 20 leads a week, they're not converting at 30%, they're
S1: converting at 10%. And then all of this starts to
S1: like break down. And the machine doesn't scale because that
S1: one person they hired, more often than not, they'll be
S1: benchmarking against their own performance as a founder. And it's
S1: scary to continue to grow. So then they default back
S1: to doing the stuff themselves, which is not good, and
S1: they don't want to lose the relationship with these high
S1: value accounts and whatnot.
S2: And then they're back inside the function. They're back as
S2: the salesperson.
S1: Okay. So how do you get so that particular breakpoint
S1: what is what is best practice. Because you work with
S1: and I want to learn more about like where you
S1: came from sort of how you built this. Because now
S1: you have over a billion under management, which is absolutely phenomenal.
S1: But um, so now you can test stuff at scale,
S1: which is always fun. But this $3 million breakpoint people
S1: are selling, founders are selling to hire one sales person.
S1: It's not working. Very common problem in SMB small business.
S1: What do you do with that?
S2: When they know that it's not working?
S1: When they know when it's not working, when is it
S1: the people? Is it the processes? What is it that
S1: takes it to like over that $3 million?
S2: They have to duplicate themselves because they are still the
S2: ones that are in these functions, because they've hired the person,
S2: they've hired the sales person, they've hired the head of marketing,
S2: they have some form of a leadership team in place,
S2: but they are not actually the ones that know how
S2: to do what is needed to get done inside these businesses.
S2: And so what we're looking at at the 3 million
S2: mark is how does the founder take the skill set
S2: that they have and truly duplicate through looking at measurements
S2: every single day? What are the metrics inside that business
S2: to let that founder know? Is this working or is
S2: this not working? When they have the measurements in place
S2: and they see what's not working, ideally you're not just
S2: looking at what's broken and you're trying to fix as
S2: if you're a firefighter every single day, what's broken. You're
S2: looking at what has worked as a business owner, what
S2: worked for you when you were in the sales process,
S2: what was the documentation, and all of the recorded sales
S2: calls for you in that function? Same with your marketing.
S2: If you're not looking at your leads every single day,
S2: and it's shocking when you work with business owners who
S2: are in smaller industries and who are more fragmented, they
S2: don't have access to things like CRM or they don't
S2: think that they do, but they don't perceive that that's
S2: a problem. They might not even be looking at their
S2: financials on more than a quarterly basis. And so you're
S2: really putting this structure into place inside the business to
S2: let the founder know or the entrepreneur know what's broken today.
S2: Assembling a team to help solve that problem is their
S2: next set of challenges, because they now see what's broken.
S2: But then they're playing firefighter by then being the ones
S2: that's fixing it. So we find that you have to
S2: put this foundation in place. What are the financial review
S2: processes looking like? Are they even looking at their financials
S2: on a consistent basis and expecting from their outsourced bookkeeper,
S2: because they probably can't afford to hire someone in-house to
S2: see when it's happening, to look at the correct numbers,
S2: to be able to then formulate a plan. If I'm
S2: off on my EBITDA, if I'm off on my revenue,
S2: then what do I actually have to do in order
S2: to fix that? But I don't even know if I
S2: have to fix that if I'm not looking at it.
S2: And so that first breakpoint really is those foundational elements
S2: through your financial review, your metrics, and the training and
S2: duplication of the owner into additional team members to allow
S2: that business to start to go into what would be
S2: the next breakpoint, which would be from 3 million to
S2: $8 million in revenue, which then you're looking at looking at, um,
S2: hiring an additional leadership layer to actually put those correct
S2: systems and processes in place because they're focused on the
S2: measurements that they've been tracking.
S1: So, you know that example that I mentioned, I think
S1: that example was only allowed to exist because the founder
S1: was so fanatical about closing deals. So he actually grew
S1: the business larger than probably he should have before implementing
S1: all of these different SOPs and systems and processes and
S1: standard operating procedures.
S2: Um, you couldn't bring somebody in that could do 4,000,000in revenue.
S1: No. He couldn't. No, of course not. No sales rep
S1: could ever do that. Uh, if I remember, each sales
S1: rep was doing just under a million, and he was
S1: himself closing 4 million. And obviously massive imbalance as to
S1: who he could hire. Uh, but I also think an
S1: interesting thing in this space that you deal with, which
S1: I think is more of an issue with entrepreneurship in general.
S1: We look at all these VC backed, angel backed Silicon
S1: Valley tech startups. And they build they build their businesses
S1: not profitably. And they're burning cash, raising the next rounds,
S1: raising next rounds. And these are like the the entrepreneurial
S1: influence that a lot of us succumbed to. You just
S1: mentioned HVAC. You mentioned, uh, service based medical, uh, dentist, uh, agency.
S1: So I think the issue really is that you have
S1: somebody who built a great HVAC company and they're like, damn,
S1: I'm doing $1 million million five. And like, I can't
S1: hire a three, a three person inside sales rep and
S1: accountant and then another two account executives with a million bucks.
S1: And that's what's screwing people over because they're learning from
S1: the wrong. They're learning from the wrong people. There's no,
S1: I don't know, a single HVAC entrepreneur, thought leader on social.
S1: But I know Jason Calacanis. I know who I know
S1: all the guys from Y-combinator. I know all those people
S1: that are super loud on Twitter and create podcasts. And
S1: then you follow like the people like Adam Neumann who?
S1: Wild story. Right? Those are the people that you look
S1: to and you're like, okay, how do I learn how
S1: to build a business like this? But first, I don't
S1: even believe that many people should build a business based
S1: on venture money. I believe building profitable businesses from the
S1: get go is like a superpower, because it sets you
S1: up to be a successful entrepreneur. Yeah. So what's the
S1: playbook for somebody who is in a service based or
S1: even not service based? Uh, who should they be looking to?
S1: Who should they emulate? Who's done this? Like, very, very well. Repeatedly.
S1: Who's like a better entrepreneurial. I don't know, influence then
S1: all the stuff we see on social and YouTube and
S1: podcasts and all that stuff.
S2: Because we service all of these different industries or industry agnostic,
S2: we do have a couple of investments in healthcare. We
S2: have investments in HVAC, we have investments in roofing and dental.
S2: We find that in every one of those industries, there
S2: are micro-influencers who have gone from being the dentist, having
S2: their hands in somebody's mouth and actually scaling to 15, 25,
S2: 45 dental locations. And they are creating content, but they
S2: are not creating content where they are getting millions of
S2: views and have all of these subscribers to their YouTube videos.
S2: It's such a niche audience that they are really talking to.
S2: And so for every one of these verticals, we do
S2: find that there are influencers, but they are not at
S2: the level. And they are so specific to, you know,
S2: I think of like Tommy Mellow in the garage door space.
S1: That's also so niche.
S2: Garage doors. Yeah, yeah. He sold his business for half
S2: $1 billion in the garage door space. Yeah. So there
S2: you have somebody who is now probably going to create
S2: a larger influence because he has done something that's so spectacular.
S2: But it started as just a guy figuring out how
S2: to sell garage doors. And so as people become more
S2: successful through the markets that, I'm sorry, the industries that
S2: are hot right now and getting a huge valuation, somebody
S2: like Ken Goodrich in the HVAC space selling Guettel over.
S2: He sold it now three times for over $250 million.
S2: They will start to come out and have more social presence,
S2: and they will be creating individual, industry specific playbooks on
S2: how to do this. Whether you are a chiropractor or
S2: a dentist or whatever the vertical that you are in.
S2: But the principles remain the same, which is why I
S2: feel very confident in writing a book like Start the
S2: Work or writing a book like teamwork, where at the
S2: end of the day, if you're a business owner, taking
S2: VC money is a little bit different. And we don't
S2: we're we're not pro VC money for the majority of
S2: businesses because you really shouldn't be accessing that capital unless
S2: you already know the basics of what it takes to
S2: run a business. And the majority of business owners are
S2: not trying to raise VC capital, but they think they
S2: think that, oh, maybe that's interesting or exciting. They should really,
S2: like get their teeth knocked in first by creating a
S2: marketing agency, or hiring their first team, or figuring out
S2: some of these standard foundational skill sets. How do you
S2: review a financial set of documents in a business? Do
S2: you have that core competency before you go ask somebody
S2: for money, much less your friends and your family for money,
S2: like you should have these very foundational business skills in
S2: place where you've demonstrated that you were the right person
S2: for somebody to place money with you and not on
S2: like a hope and a dream, but on a real
S2: live example of this is me demonstrating that I actually
S2: know what I'm talking about, that I'm able to market,
S2: that I'm able to solve a real problem. And you
S2: don't get that through not having some sort of experience.
S1: So the X factor and I agree completely. I mean,
S1: I think too many people raise money. I think that.
S1: So yeah, if you don't know how to read a
S1: PNL or even create one like that's a big issue. Um,
S1: so the caveat the the the takeaway is don't raise
S1: money for most businesses, build it profitably from the get go. Um,
S1: but the X factor, like you can build SOPs. People
S1: will understand the concept of building systems and processes around
S1: what they know. This, even if they're not doing it,
S1: they can do it tomorrow. The X factor is people.
S1: The X factor is always people. And I've heard this
S1: time and time again, especially post-Covid, and even I don't
S1: know what the rest of the US is like or
S1: the rest of the world. But I have friends that
S1: run businesses, and I have not had to hire people
S1: in the US since Covid ended, so I've been able
S1: to hire all over the world. pre-COVID was a different story.
S1: We had people in Canada and the US. Um, but
S1: post-Covid it's all been it's all been all over. But
S1: I have friends who have tried to hire, and they
S1: say that the talent landscape post-Covid is very difficult. It's
S1: very difficult to get great people. And these people are
S1: not bad business leaders. But it's like the wildest stories,
S1: like somebody will be hired W2 employee and they'll negotiate
S1: a salary. And then the first week they'll say, I
S1: want more money. Like things that didn't happen in my
S1: life at least. So the X factor is always people,
S1: The first person like that founder led business, they're making
S1: money themselves. They try to hire a sales rep. Maybe
S1: they're not closing as much as the founder does. So
S1: those first few hires are super important. How do you
S1: navigate the talent climate? How do you find the right person?
S1: What is like? What is your framework? Because now you
S1: have thousands of employees. Um, so you figured it out.
S1: What is that strategy?
S2: Yeah. I am a big believer that business is done
S2: through creating a people game. And you have to think
S2: about yourself as a founder, as an entrepreneur, playing a
S2: game with finding great people. It's not just, oh, I'm
S2: gonna find one person and they're going to solve this problem.
S2: And I'm playing this game of checkers where it's just
S2: one piece at a time. Oh, I need a marketing person. Oh,
S2: I need a sales person. Okay, now I'm going to
S2: go out and recruit. It is a game that you
S2: have to play for a long period of time to
S2: help the market understand why you are the founder or
S2: the entrepreneur, or the business that great people want to
S2: work with. And so first it starts with, how are
S2: you promoting that you are a great place to work at?
S2: Are you talking about in our business card adventures? Are
S2: you talking about the fact that people are winning inside
S2: your company? Not just your clients, but your team members?
S2: We have team members who came to work with us,
S2: who were making $60,000 a year and are now making
S2: $400,000 a year. We we've only been in business for
S2: five years. We promote those stories, but we're thinking about
S2: that when we make that initial hire of somebody who
S2: is saying, I'm making $60,000 a year, I'm applying for
S2: a job here at this compensation. But I have radical goals.
S2: So how do you find people who have radical goals
S2: but are at a starting point where the business can
S2: afford to hire that person? Most businesses cannot afford to
S2: hire somebody at $400,000. They can't afford to hire somebody
S2: who is hungry. That's making $60,000, who has the vision
S2: for their life of wanting to make 400,000, but has
S2: has actually no idea how to get there, because if
S2: they knew how to get there, they would already be
S2: making $400,000. We live in a free market economy. If
S2: somebody could go down the street and make that amount
S2: of money, they would go and make that amount of money.
S2: And so as a business owner, if you're playing this
S2: game of people you're really thinking about, I need to
S2: create a brand for our organization where great talent thinks
S2: of us as a place where people come to find
S2: success and to have their success be easier with me
S2: than they would be able to find success with somebody
S2: down the street. So how are we you promoting that?
S2: How are you constantly recruiting for people and posting jobs,
S2: even if you're not hiring for those roles, to tell
S2: the market that you are recruiting and you're constantly looking
S2: for great talent, and then once they come in the door,
S2: how are you exemplifying that you are actually interested in
S2: their success? I think what's made us successful in this
S2: hiring market over the last five years, pre-COVID, post Covid,
S2: is you're getting an opportunity to work alongside real leaders
S2: in a in a non-virtual work environment. We have an
S2: office here. We have an office in Scottsdale. They're seeing
S2: how I work every single day. They're seeing how Brandon
S2: works every single day. They are like rubbing shoulders with
S2: us constantly to solve the the largest problems inside our organization.
S2: And if you take that and you apply it to
S2: a small business, we had the exact same principles five
S2: years ago as we do today. We create this environment
S2: that allows people who have this dream, have this hope
S2: for their lives because we're marketing to them as a
S2: candidate journey, not just a customer journey as a candidate journey,
S2: because we're playing this people game, and this candidate journey
S2: is telling them you can achieve your personal, professional and
S2: financial goals. Through working here alongside us. We've achieved our personal,
S2: professional and financial goals up to a point, so there
S2: is some success that you can follow. But we have
S2: radical goals for this organization and we are committed to growth.
S2: So once they're in the environment, in order to keep them,
S2: they have to actually see that we're really doing the
S2: actions that demonstrate that we're committed to those things. So
S2: if they saw us on vacation all the time, or
S2: if they saw us not really being interested in their success,
S2: if they saw us just like half assing the work
S2: that we do with our clients, it It would be
S2: a different story, but instead what they see is a
S2: team of people and leaders. Back then, when we had
S2: zero employees all the way up to today, when we
S2: have hundreds of employees working on the weekends and being
S2: here before people and being here after people leave, and
S2: they really are understanding what it takes to be successful.
S2: So it's the entire package of we sold the dream.
S2: We're marketing A to a candidates that this dream is
S2: possible here because we have this target of where this
S2: business is going in the future, and we're really clear
S2: about that target. And then once they come in, they
S2: are testing and watching and seeing how serious we are.
S2: And so we have to be serious every day. And
S2: I do find that a lot of business owners really
S2: struggle with that level of seriousness and that level of commitment,
S2: because they create a business around a lifestyle. And if
S2: you want a lifestyle business, that's totally fine if that's
S2: your prerogative, but But you are going to lose a
S2: people game if somebody else is not actually fulfilling their
S2: side of the the they're.
S1: Not they're not being role models for the yeah.
S2: You're going to lose that person and somebody else is
S2: going to find the better talent because they actually want
S2: to be around people who are able to make their
S2: success easy.
S1: When you're when you're trying to find that high performer,
S1: you're talking about all super high performers. I mean, somebody
S1: who's making 400 grand, obviously highly ambitious births. So how
S1: do you manage getting them to commit to your business
S1: while not also getting them to commit to any other
S1: side hustle, any other thing they're trying to take on?
S1: Because now everybody is trying to be their own influencer.
S1: And I mean, I have my own thoughts about. I
S1: do believe that if you hire people like, I'm super
S1: happy if they build their personal brand, start something on
S1: the side. I think it helps them upskill. This is
S1: my personal opinion and there's a lot that goes into that.
S1: But for yourself, I'm curious. You know, when you hire
S1: somebody like this, there's a very high likelihood that they
S1: are either looking for the next thing, how to make
S1: more money. When you start making 400 K, you're like
S1: comfortably poor at that point. So now you realize that
S1: damn life is good. But I'm also in Miami, so
S1: how do I make $1 million a year? And maybe
S1: it's not with an organization, or maybe it is, but
S1: the person who makes that kind of money, I believe,
S1: is inherently very an entrepreneurial. I think they are somewhat
S1: entrepreneurial because they're really striving, and if they put that
S1: much energy into their own business, there's a chance that
S1: they could actually succeed as well. So how do you
S1: manage that personality type? Because everybody wants that person. But
S1: then at the same time, maybe it's easier if somebody
S1: is okay. Again, nothing wrong with how much money you make.
S1: You make six, make 400 K. Make a million. Make
S1: 10 million. Doesn't matter. But if somebody's okay making 60
S1: K and they're not looking for the next thing and
S1: they're happy with that, then maybe it's less of a
S1: liability to the company.
S2: We start the conversation with our team members around their personal,
S2: professional and financial goals. That is a process in our business.
S2: They are sitting down with their leader and saying, this
S2: is what I want to achieve. So if that person
S2: is saying, I want to be making $400,000 a year
S2: over the next three years working here, I want to
S2: then understand what is five years from now look like.
S2: Because what I know about being a business owner is
S2: it sucks most of the time, and you could actually
S2: live a fantastic life working for somebody else, making more
S2: money than you would make by yourself. The stats with
S2: business do not lie. The majority of businesses do not
S2: make a lot of money. And even if you took
S2: a high performer inside a business, it does not mean
S2: that they are going to be a high performance business
S2: owner and come with all of those challenges and all
S2: of that risk. And so when we're having these PPF
S2: conversations with the team member, if they're telling me that
S2: they want to own a business one day, I really
S2: have to get down to like, why do you want
S2: to own a business? Is it because you have to
S2: be the guy? There's that quality where some people are
S2: just like, I want to be the guy. I want
S2: to be the person. Like, okay, that's cool. Part of
S2: that is a little bit of ego because they have
S2: no freaking clue what they're talking about. They're making $60,000
S2: a year. They've never started a business before. They don't
S2: understand what those components are going to look like. And
S2: if they do think that they want to be the guy,
S2: we're probably not going to retain that person, to be
S2: honest with you, in five years, that hasn't happened for us.
S2: Our high performers have not left us, especially the ones
S2: that started early on, the ones that are making it
S2: with people making 400, 500, 600. The highest paid person
S2: probably makes $1.2 million a year. And that's a lot.
S1: That's that's a lot of money as an employee.
S2: Yeah, it's good money. And going out and starting your business,
S2: there's a lot of risk for you aren't going to
S2: be able to replace that income. and all of the
S2: things that go into entrepreneurship. And so for that person,
S2: we're asking that they go all in on their goals
S2: by being really focused on the set of problems that
S2: we have. If if we have a set of problems
S2: for somebody who is a high performer making $400,000 a year,
S2: that is not a 9 to 5 job, and we
S2: don't expect that they are going to be able to
S2: solve those problems at that compensation level in a 9
S2: to 5 environment, because there's just more complexity than you
S2: clocking in and clocking out. That's not the mindset. So
S2: when we have that person, though, that doesn't see themselves
S2: being an employee forever, how do we create the opportunity,
S2: as Cardone ventures as any small business, to show them
S2: how they could be a future partner and build inside
S2: of what we want to create, which is $1 billion organization.
S2: They can be the president of one of our verticals.
S2: They could be a president of our health vertical or
S2: our HVAC vertical, or our roofing vertical or a dental vertical,
S2: and see themselves growing inside our business because we don't
S2: want to lose those people. And then they would still
S2: get the flexibility, the autonomy that they're looking for while
S2: still getting to do it with really cool people. The
S2: hardest part of starting a business is actually having to
S2: do it by yourself. And it sucks and it's painful,
S2: and most people don't make it through that. So why
S2: wouldn't you want to continue to work alongside people who
S2: are always going to be pushing you and expecting more
S2: of you once you get to that level and partnering
S2: with you? Because there's more of a cushion there than
S2: you just going out and starting your own business. And
S2: this has been successful for us because it's an easy
S2: story to tell people, and it's also getting them focused
S2: on what the problems are today. Instead of I'm solving
S2: these problems in my day job, but now I'm also
S2: solving these side problems. And now my focus is split
S2: in two different areas. That person is going to be
S2: less good at both of those things than the person
S2: who just does go all in and focuses on the
S2: one thing in their career. Yes, they're choosing to take
S2: a gamble on the organization, but if we continue to
S2: demonstrate that we're here, that we're pushing, that we're growing,
S2: then that confidence and that trust continues to build.
S1: So the concept of of giving ownership to somebody, not
S1: just in their job, but like true ownership over a
S1: vertical or equity, I think that's such an underutilized tool,
S1: but it's underutilized for a reason, is because founders and
S1: and entrepreneurs are very scared about giving up a piece
S1: of what they've built. Um, and they don't want to
S1: do it incorrectly. They don't want to give ownership to
S1: the wrong person. And I don't know if, for example,
S1: if somebody in Cardone ventures that they took over as
S1: president of an HVAC division, if they would be able
S1: to buy in and have equity in that, I'm assuming, yes,
S1: at some level, if they're if they've, you know, shown
S1: that they can they can exceed and grow it and
S1: build it. So I think that okay, so we talked
S1: about building SOPs, uh, finding the right people, but then
S1: scaling out the management team, scaling out the people that
S1: are entrepreneurial but within your own organization. Maybe ownership is
S1: a key piece of that. So how do you take
S1: it from let's tie this back into the book and
S1: the framework and the the 3 million to the $8
S1: million break point, $8 million break point. You have to
S1: start bringing in another level of management that could be
S1: people that are be a super entrepreneurial, but they're taking
S1: a risk on your business. They're committing their time to
S1: your business. What is the playbook for finding the right
S1: person that you can give ownership to, that you can
S1: trust with that level of management and level of responsibility
S1: to get over that $8 million break point.
S2: You're really marketing to this person through every touchpoint that
S2: your brand creates online. And my job at our organization
S2: is to be talking to that person, which is different
S2: than talking to our clients, because I recognize that we
S2: are not going to win this organization game if we
S2: cannot figure out how to find great people. So I'm
S2: marketing to the type of person that wants to leave
S2: a job. We just hired our CFO slash COO, who
S2: left KKR, and it was the head of treasury in
S2: order to inside our business. He's totally badass. He literally
S2: moved from New York to join this like small little
S2: $125 million company to be a part of what we're building.
S2: But that same thing that we are doing today to
S2: attract talent from KKR is how we started the business
S2: five years ago. It's talking about the fact that we
S2: are going someplace and having a big vision. And to me,
S2: this is where most business owners just fail. They do
S2: not actually have clarity on what their ten year vision is.
S2: You and I were talking about your ten year targets
S2: and your ten year goals, and committing to something for
S2: ten years. If you really had that mindset with your business,
S2: you should be sharing with every single person that you
S2: come in contact with, what that big vision is. And
S2: if you don't have that big vision and you're not
S2: talking about those things, of course you're going to get disengaged. People,
S2: people who are not interested in even having a conversation
S2: about equity because they just looked at your position as
S2: a job and your mindset because you're not playing a
S2: people game is I'm just filling holes inside this organization
S2: instead of really strategically looking at this as, how do
S2: I find people who want to come on board to
S2: have a piece of this business to help grow this business.
S2: So every single thing that you do when it comes
S2: to how you show up with your team every single day,
S2: how you interview the candidate, what you're asking them to,
S2: to demonstrate to you in the interview process, are you
S2: asking them what their goals are? That, to me is
S2: the lowest hanging fruit for a business owner. If you
S2: are not asking somebody what their goals are prior to
S2: them joining you, it's akin to somebody getting married, falling
S2: in love, deciding to get married in a very short notice.
S2: And then once you're on your honeymoon, you're having this conversation.
S2: You guys are blissfully in love, but you're having this
S2: conversation about the significant other saying, oh, I can't wait
S2: for us to move into the country and for us
S2: to be able to have farmland and get out of
S2: the city. I hate the city, and we can have
S2: all of these kids. And you're like, wait a second,
S2: I love the city. I always want to be in
S2: the city. I didn't think we were going to have
S2: kids together. I thought it was just going to be
S2: you and me till the end, and we were going
S2: to build this empire. There was no coordination on the
S2: goals for those groups of people. We do this to
S2: our team members all the time. Were secretly as business
S2: owners wanting to create these large organizations. We have these dreams.
S2: We don't communicate them. We post a position assuming that
S2: we're going to get the best talent, the most engaged talent,
S2: somebody who's finally going to help me in my business.
S2: All of a sudden they come on board. We didn't
S2: ask them what their goals were. They're expecting to clock
S2: in and clock out or they have other priorities that
S2: we didn't even ask them about ahead of time. And
S2: yet we're expecting them to help take our business from
S2: $3 million to $8 million. We didn't we didn't even
S2: contextually put that person into the role of what does
S2: it take to go from 3 million to 8 million?
S2: Do you know what it's like to work an $8
S2: million business when you joined your last company that I'm
S2: so impressed with as an entrepreneur that was doing $50
S2: million in revenue, were were you there only when they
S2: were doing 50 million, or were you there when they
S2: actually grew from 25 to 50, so that you have
S2: context to be able to help us not just go
S2: to 8 million, but actually hit a $50 million target.
S2: And so in this conversation with the candidate, you have
S2: to be framing what the goal is for the organization.
S2: And then once they're on board with you, your your
S2: crystal clear on what the expectation is. Are they hitting metrics?
S2: Are they clear on what their job description is? Do
S2: they know what success looks like in the first 30, 60,
S2: 90 days? And at that point, for us at least,
S2: that's when we start issuing equity, because I'm not going
S2: to give equity to somebody on a hope and a
S2: dream and a promise. But a lot of higher level
S2: executives are wanting that promise when they start an organization.
S2: And because we've tried doing that a handful of times,
S2: I'm at the place today where it hasn't worked. We'll
S2: not do that because they come in with these big
S2: degrees or they come in with this, this 14 years
S2: at Ernst and Young, and they are about to be
S2: a partner. And then they come in and they expect
S2: that our environment is a cushy one. And so it
S2: really depends on what the business owner is trying to create.
S2: But if you are really serious about your goals and
S2: you are really clear on where you're trying to go,
S2: you have to be communicating that with the person the
S2: entire time. You almost have to promote that more than
S2: you're promoting your client journey, more than you're promoting you
S2: bringing on new business. Because at some point, that is
S2: not the thing that's going to stop you from growing
S2: your business. It's going to be this people piece. And
S2: if you're not focused on this people piece, when you start,
S2: you're just playing this whac-a-mole game and filling positions and
S2: filling roles, and you have this duct tape together team
S2: Once you've got all of this, all of these clients
S2: that are inside your business and the business isn't set
S2: up to actually scale.
S1: I'm super curious because so your husband Brandon and yourself,
S1: you had $151 million exit, which is phenomenal, right? So obviously,
S1: like first of all, you just said you brought some
S1: from KKR, which is like I think at this point,
S1: the second or third largest private equity firm in the
S1: world still phenomenal. You're still doing it. But when you
S1: when you started working with Grant, I want to unpack
S1: even your experience because what he built out and how
S1: he partnered with both of you. So Brandon and yourself
S1: to build a Cardone Ventures, this is kind of it's
S1: an example of exactly what you're telling businesses to do. So,
S1: I mean, not a lot of businesses can attract somebody
S1: who had $151 million exit to come and partner up
S1: with them for sure. So, you know, obviously, I think
S1: it's good just to get a little bit of your
S1: backstory and where you came from, but then tee it
S1: up with how did this partnership happen? Because this is
S1: what at as a business owner, if I can attract
S1: somebody who had that level of exit nine figure exit, like,
S1: that's phenomenal. Like I could only dream like, right. That's
S1: what I mean. I'm trying to attract people from from Fang,
S1: from Facebook, from Apple, let alone like an exited entrepreneur.
S2: It was a very serendipitous event in our lives. And
S2: I honestly think that this is the greatest gift of
S2: my life up until this point, which was I watched
S2: my now husband build this business as an entrepreneur. He
S2: founded it in 2004. I worked in the business the
S2: last handful of years while he was going through the
S2: road show and the exit of this organization. So the
S2: wire hits the bank account. We were in Spain, and
S2: within moments of that wire hitting, I just watched the
S2: anxiety flood through him. Because you have this thing that
S2: happens that you've always dreamed of. But if you don't
S2: have people around you telling you what's next or helping
S2: you prepare for what that experience is like, you feel
S2: like your purpose is gone. And this is exactly what happened.
S2: His purpose was gone. And for two years we went
S2: around hanging out with everybody who had done a similar thing.
S2: They had exits. What do people do when they sell
S2: their business? They start investing in golf memberships. They start
S2: traveling more. They buy homes. They might buy some stupid stuff.
S2: My husband happened to have a car, uh, a car,
S2: a little addiction there for a while. I think he
S2: bought like six cars in a matter of two months.
S2: It was ridiculous. That's a lot. It was a lot
S2: of cars. He likes cars. He still likes cars. But
S2: there was no influence around us saying, this is what's next.
S2: And so at the time, I was 23 years old.
S2: He was 48 years old. We have a little bit
S2: of an age difference. And I was like, this is
S2: not what I signed up for. I signed up for
S2: us to build a business. I signed up for us
S2: to have a purpose and a mission, and I'm not
S2: cool with us talking to your golf buddies every single
S2: day about the one shot that we missed every day
S2: was like the same conversation. The one shot us with golfers.
S2: The one shot that, like, took the whole game out. Like,
S2: I can't do this. And so I started looking at
S2: all of these social media influencers because my husband is
S2: brilliant and he's engaging and dynamic and funny and he's sharp.
S2: And I was like, if these guys can do it,
S2: you can frickin do it. You've done more from a
S2: competency standpoint than most of them have and have this
S2: incredible story. So I start looking at all these social
S2: media people, and I showed Grant to him, and the
S2: first time he saw Grant, he was like, this has
S2: to be a joke. Like my husband was a very
S2: like traditional businessperson. He was thinking that our next iteration
S2: was going to be going through private equity, and I
S2: was like, what if we went the social media route?
S2: So I found this list, showed him Grant. He was
S2: not interested. I instantly was like, this is the guy.
S2: I just could tell through the content. But more importantly,
S2: his relationship with his wife and his relationship with his kids.
S2: Not only was he creating this financial success and have
S2: this big mission to help all 8 billion people on
S2: the planet with financial literacy, like the mission is insane. Grant,
S2: like when he talks about ten X, that push that
S2: he has is very real because he has this big mission.
S2: But it's not just about the cars and the planes
S2: and the watches and all this success, which is what
S2: I was seeing so much of it, the golf course,
S2: it was for him, more about how do I create
S2: this life and this legacy for other people and also
S2: have an incredible relationship with my wife and also be
S2: a phenomenal dad. And so I was very interested and
S2: attracted to this life, this ten-x thing that they were
S2: promoting online. And so I read every single book. I
S2: practically watched every single YouTube video and put this in
S2: front of Brandon when we were going on a four
S2: hour car ride. I put the ten x rule on
S2: after I had read it like two times at that point,
S2: and at first he's like, no, no, no, we're not
S2: listening to this. Luckily, he has no idea how to
S2: work Bluetooth. The age difference seems to be with this.
S2: So I forced him to. He couldn't. He couldn't turn
S2: it off. We were in the car for four hours
S2: and it clicked for him too. So when we met
S2: Grant and Elena, it was really us validating. Are they
S2: who they say they are and is their audience somebody
S2: that we know that we could help? They at the
S2: time had Cardinal Capital, which is an investment firm for
S2: multifamily real estate, and they had Cardinal University, which is
S2: sales training. But what we know how to do is
S2: leadership development and hiring and operations and how to look
S2: at financials and all of these other components of growing
S2: and scaling a business. So we met this audience at
S2: Growth Con in 2019, this big event, 35,000 people in it.
S2: We met this audience. We're like, yeah, we know we
S2: can help these people because they're only getting serviced through
S2: these two channels that Grant currently is offering. And we
S2: watched Grant and Alena like weird little stalkers. Like we
S2: just like watched every little lube. And when we finally
S2: got the opportunity to meet them, we said, what would
S2: it take for us to have a conversation around being
S2: partners and creating $1 billion organization together, servicing business owners?
S2: And grant like kind of blew us off a little
S2: bit at first. But, you know, we know how to
S2: follow up and we continue to follow up. And when
S2: that conversation became real, it was so obvious that this
S2: is a need in their organization. And this is what
S2: we are good at doing. And we had been able
S2: to create this track record. And so for the last
S2: five years, that's what we've been busy building. But for me,
S2: maybe you and I might have a little bit of
S2: a different philosophy on this, actually. And I would love
S2: to like, debate this potentially. Like, I think it's really
S2: hard when you're, like, picking and choosing pieces of mentors,
S2: because I don't want to be watching somebody who has
S2: all this business success and is telling me what it
S2: takes to do to to be great in business, but
S2: is a shitty dad. Like, I don't want to be
S2: listening to that person, and I have a hard time
S2: bifurcating that. It's one person. Interesting because to me, they're
S2: they are one person, and I want to learn from
S2: people who really do have it all. If there is
S2: somebody who has exactly what I'm looking for, I want
S2: to listen to that person. And I used to listen
S2: to all of these different podcasts and YouTube, like, I'm
S2: a student of this, this content. I used to listen
S2: to couples who did business separately, and then all of
S2: a sudden I was like, picking fights with Brandon or
S2: having issues in our business because I was listening to
S2: content that even though maybe I was listening to them
S2: about marriage content, it infiltrated the fact that they weren't
S2: working together. And that wasn't my path. My path was
S2: working alongside my husband in a business and having to
S2: figure out this this way forward, while also being a
S2: business owner, a wife, being supportive in all of these roles.
S2: And it was confusing to me what I was trying
S2: to just like, study one part of somebody. And so
S2: for us, Grant and Elena really were that like family, husband, wife, kids,
S2: ridiculously successful from a financial standpoint and impact driven. And
S2: what I found them to be, I'm like, I'm going
S2: all in. And five years later I am more putting
S2: them on a pedestal today than I was back then.
S2: And that is so rare in today's world where you
S2: put somebody on a pedestal because you think that they're
S2: this great person from everything you've watched on social media, YouTube, Instagram,
S2: all of the fun stuff. You're like, oh, they're this person.
S2: But then you meet them oftentimes and you have a
S2: lot of experience with this. You meet them and and.
S1: Don't meet your heroes.
S2: Right? They're not. Yeah. You like that's a real advice.
S2: Don't meet your heroes. To me. I respect them more
S2: after spending thousands of hours with them than today, than
S2: I did back then, because they actually are who they
S2: say that they are. And to me, they're better. Like,
S2: I wish somebody I wish they were better promoters of
S2: who they are, because I think so much gets missed
S2: with the two of them. And so that's why we
S2: decided to literally go all in. We moved from Washington,
S2: move between here in Scottsdale to build this business over
S2: five years because we found people that had the life
S2: that we wanted who were willing to mentor us, and
S2: we also brought a significant amount of credibility and influence
S2: and hard work and strategy to the table to make
S2: this partnership make sense.
S1: So it's interesting that you that you, you say that
S1: you found this one person that sort of encapsulates everything.
S1: It's very hard to compartmentalize one particular aspect of somebody's
S1: life and then ignore the rest. And I think that's
S1: actually very wise. I think that the reason I have
S1: the view that I have is because it's very rare
S1: to find somebody that encapsulates everything that you would look
S1: for in a person, and I think it's because people
S1: are so easily influenced by social media. I think it's dangerous.
S1: I think it's less risky to look at a few
S1: different people than to go all in on one person,
S1: because if I say go all in on one person,
S1: there's a there's a high probability that person is not
S1: who they say they are. That's the concern. And I
S1: think that we talk about access all the time. And
S1: I'm going to give you an impossible question to answer,
S1: because you asked me some impossible questions as well. But
S1: when you look at the exit and the access that
S1: you had, someone will be like, okay, so I didn't
S1: have $151 million exit. How can I have a sit
S1: down conversation with all the people that I look up
S1: to to make sure that they are who they say
S1: they are? Because I do want to go all in
S1: on one person. That's a very difficult thing to replicate.
S1: So what would be the advice for somebody who's looking
S1: for mentor advice? All the people online, if.
S2: You can't meet them in person and spend one on
S2: one time with them, how can you study every other
S2: aspect around them? So with Grant and Elena, before we
S2: sat down and met with them, I watched every single
S2: thing that their kids were putting out. I watched all
S2: of the behind the scenes of their teams content because
S2: do they have great people around them that are vouching
S2: for them if they don't have great people around them,
S2: but they're there promoting that they know how to do
S2: all of this stuff and that they are these great people,
S2: great people have other great people around them. That is
S2: a fact. And so do they have a big enough
S2: business or a group of leaders around them that do
S2: vouch for them, that do show up and promote them
S2: and believe in them and still say the things I
S2: mean to me, like I am their greatest billboard, but
S2: it's because I mean it. And it's to my core
S2: that I believe that those two individuals are just the
S2: greatest people that I've ever met. But do they have
S2: a lot of successful people around them, and what do
S2: their lives look like? Are the people around them winning
S2: and achieving things and succeeding, or the people around them
S2: actually doing worse, or do they not promote the people
S2: around them at all? So I would really be looking
S2: at not just the one person. You're not just looking
S2: at Kylie Jenner, or you're not just looking at, you know,
S2: whoever your influencer of choice is, what is the group
S2: around them like, and are they winning or are they losing?
S2: And are they when they get in proximity to these people,
S2: are they doing worse off than they were beforehand? And
S2: that to me is such an easy tell of if
S2: the person truly is influential and actually able to create
S2: an environment where the people around them become more successful.
S2: My definition of leadership is making other people success easy.
S2: So if you really are a leader, how can you
S2: demonstrate that you have made the people around you their
S2: success easy through the environment that they are in now
S2: because of you, through the example that you are creating
S2: inside their presence like you do, rub off on people.
S2: Grant did rub off on people. Elena did rub off
S2: on people. Are those people doing better? And to the
S2: extent that they are, that's what those are, the people
S2: you should be going all in on. If they aren't,
S2: then I would second guess. Are they really the right
S2: person to be listening to? Because the people who are
S2: close to them know, like where the bodies are buried,
S2: if the bodies aren't buried and there aren't any bodies,
S2: hope like praying that there aren't actually any buried bodies
S2: or figuratively. Yes, figuratively. Um, then, you know, I watch
S2: so many social media people and people that we've partnered with,
S2: and I wish that I would have taken my advice
S2: earlier on when it comes to investing in businesses, because
S2: what I see a lot of people who are in
S2: this game that we're in, which is investing in businesses,
S2: they don't they don't really critically look at their partners.
S2: When you look at a business deal that you're about
S2: to do, what is the family and the friend and
S2: the coworker situation like, I get that you're looking at
S2: the founder or the entrepreneur, but it's hard to tell
S2: just through financials and through somebody doing an interview if
S2: they're the real deal, If I can get access to
S2: having dinner with the founder and the spouse, I'm interested. Like,
S2: what's the dynamic between the two of them? Can I
S2: actually meet with the team and understand how that founder
S2: shows up with their team members? Because they're going to
S2: show me one thing, but they're going to be an
S2: entirely different person, and the people around them are going
S2: to demonstrate a totally different side of them. And if
S2: I can get access to that, when I get access
S2: to that, we do better deals. When I haven't done that,
S2: those nine times out of ten are the deals that
S2: have failed for us. It's because we just thought this
S2: one person was great, but we didn't have the rest
S2: of the picture and they didn't have the same core
S2: values that we have. They didn't demonstrate these things that
S2: are really important to us, not just inside work and
S2: not just being a high performer when they show up,
S2: but the rest of their lives. And, you know, when
S2: somebody is a fraud and the rest of their lives,
S2: when other people in their lives aren't vouching for them. Mhm.
S1: And when you agreed when you. I love that process.
S1: I mean, I've been part of a lot of investment
S1: conversations and I think that a lot of the focus
S1: is on like, like the PNL and that's, that's really
S1: where it ends. And then you have a founder interview
S1: and you figure out the founder is good, but sitting
S1: down with somebody's spouse, meeting their friends, I don't know,
S1: you just hired somebody from KKR. Do they do that?
S1: I don't I don't know if they do. They do
S1: that level of due diligence when they buy a business.
S1: I don't think so.
S2: No, I just don't want to do business. If we
S2: are smaller than KKR because we're not willing to put
S2: up with the bullshit. They're willing to put up with
S2: I'm okay with that. We have done enough bad deals
S2: for me to know that I only want to do
S2: deals with people that I trust, that believe in me,
S2: that are rooting for this organization, that are ethical, that
S2: actually are what they say that they are. And when
S2: you come into an environment that is all of those things,
S2: the people are who they say they are. They're authentic,
S2: they're genuine, they're high performing. Ideally, that repels the bad ones,
S2: but sometimes people just get so money hungry or they
S2: think that you're going to give up sooner than you
S2: really are. They have a short term time horizon, and
S2: you have a long term time horizon. Like my life
S2: is too short to have to deal with those people.
S2: There are enough great business owners out there that are
S2: the type of people that I want to spend time with,
S2: that if we have $1 billion fund instead of a
S2: $100 billion fund, like I'm good because I don't want
S2: to have to deal with the headaches and the the
S2: sheer torment, to be honest. And I know you have
S2: experience like this. The torments of founders who are just
S2: complete assholes. You couldn't. You couldn't pay me enough. But
S2: it's so much more than what they're actually able to
S2: bring to the table that it's. I'm not going to
S2: do that. And I do think that there's an alternative route.
S1: Early stage founder is listening to this thinking, okay, I'm
S1: not not a bad person. I'm an ethical person. I
S1: check all those boxes. But you mentioned something that's very interesting.
S1: You want your definition of leadership? Was making success easy
S1: for other people? Amazing. I love that definition. Founders like shit.
S1: I'm just trying to build a business. I don't know
S1: how to make success easy for other people. I'm just
S1: hiring people and I have SOPs and I hopefully find
S1: some a talent. And it's like it's it's so much
S1: that what you know, I'm trying to figure out how
S1: do I create success for other people? Maybe I kind
S1: of know where their career aspirations and goals are, but
S1: it's a startup. Everyone's struggling, everyone's stressed out, everything's on
S1: fire every single day. And I'm doing my best. And
S1: I'm working from six in the morning till 11 at night.
S1: How am I really supposed to invest more into my people?
S1: What is like a very easy way to invest into
S1: my people so that their success is easier because of me,
S1: because I don't even feel as a business owner, my
S1: own success is easy, and I think that's a reality
S1: for a lot of people, especially in the in the
S1: SMB space and the people you serve. Sub $10 million,
S1: nothing feels easy. Your own success as an entrepreneur doesn't
S1: feel easy. So how am I going to give my
S1: energy and my time to all the people that work
S1: for me so that Natalie comes in, she wants to
S1: buy my business? They don't say that. Yeah, Scott's not
S1: a bad guy, but, I mean, I haven't upskilled I
S1: haven't learned anything new. I kind of just do my
S1: job sometimes, like, we get stressed out and things aren't working,
S1: which I think is pretty like this is like a
S1: standard definition of almost any business. Everybody. So what's the
S1: what's the strategy to make people's success easier when you're
S1: already stressed yourself?
S2: It's a great question. That one's like the deep one
S2: for me. I would say that if you're starting the
S2: conversation with their goals, somebody is coming to you making $60,000.
S2: I'll give you a real example. Someone is coming to
S2: you making $60,000 a year. They want to make $400,000
S2: a year. You want to drive that person to the
S2: things that would allow them to make $400,000 a year.
S2: We had a team member come to us that was
S2: making $60,000 a year. And her goals, when we sat
S2: down and talked to her having this conversation was in
S2: the next 18 months, she wanted to make $250,000. Like
S2: in the role that you're in right now. It was
S2: an operations function. There is no possibility of you making
S2: $250,000 a year if this is not real in the
S2: next 18 months. This is the business owner. This is
S2: me being a coach in this situation because you're telling
S2: me you want to do something. And if I believe
S2: you that you want to do something, I have to
S2: tell you when. That doesn't make sense here. But ideally,
S2: you're able to create a different path to keep this
S2: really engaged person, somebody who wants to be able to
S2: create something great and share with them what success could
S2: look like. So this person had never sold anything. She
S2: actually was working on her doctor of chiropractic. So she
S2: had just finished chiropractic school. And when she sat down
S2: and told me this, I said, the only way that
S2: I see you during this organization, she was our 12th employee,
S2: and being able to make $250,000 a year is through
S2: becoming a salesperson. And if you become a salesperson and
S2: you learn the most valuable lesson that a business like
S2: ours is struggling with, which is how to get customers
S2: in and convert them into our products and services, you
S2: won't be paid that and then some. So she thought
S2: about it for a week and a half and she's like, sure,
S2: I'll become a salesperson. And so we transitioned her over
S2: two months because she's still fulfilling that operations function. So
S2: business owners, like they're still in the function that they're
S2: originally in. But she's pivoted over to sales. She cried
S2: every single day for the first 90 days. Like it
S2: was like a patch up job every single day being
S2: told no 250 times. Most of the time, people not
S2: even answering the phone call. Fast forward one year later,
S2: she had made $250,000. Think she made like 280. Then
S2: she made 350. Then she made 400,000. But ultimately she
S2: never wanted to be a salesperson. She wanted to make
S2: $250,000 a year, to then be able to service people
S2: in the health care space. So as an organization, we
S2: bought this little company called Streamline Medical, rebranded it to
S2: Ten-x health, bolted on another company in order to grow
S2: its revenue, and we needed a director of sales. This
S2: team member is now the director of sales at Ten-x Health,
S2: leading a 50 person team, all because when she was
S2: 24 years old, she was very honest by saying, I'm
S2: making $60,000 a year. My value and contribution today is
S2: 50,000 or $60,000 a year. But I have these goals
S2: and we shoved her to where the business needed help
S2: right then and there, and it eventually ended up leading
S2: her back to what her goals were originally, which was
S2: to be part of a health and wellness company. That
S2: was tied to why she went to chiropractic school to
S2: begin with. And so when you really take it as like,
S2: it's not this overwhelming concept of tying your team members
S2: to the goals of the business. This is a hand
S2: to hand combat, 1 to 1 conversation. You hire somebody,
S2: they tell you that they are making 80,000, but they
S2: only want to make 90,000. Is that person really going
S2: to be the person that helps you create this next
S2: level of growth in your business? Probably not. Early on.
S2: You only want to be hiring very growth oriented team
S2: members because you need them to want to grow. And
S2: then when you're talking to them and they tell you
S2: that they have these large growth goals, how do you craft?
S2: This doesn't take hours. It probably takes 30 minutes with
S2: each individual person. You have 12 team members, okay. If
S2: Bob wants to go from 80,000 to 120,000, what would
S2: he actually have to do in our product team in
S2: order to drive a $400,000 of additional revenue for him
S2: to be able to make this additional 30 or $40,000
S2: a year. And if the gap between what they want
S2: to make and where they're making is so large, but
S2: they think that they can do it, why not have
S2: them propose to you what value they could add, what
S2: skill set they could bring to the table, what they
S2: would need investment in for them to go learn to
S2: invest in education and courses and content to actually get
S2: those skills that you're specifically looking for from that person.
S2: And so the less you think of it as like
S2: a general, how do I, as a business owner, overcome this?
S2: And you think about it individually and you're crafting these
S2: plans for your team members, the more success you're going
S2: to have with actually creating the success, because you need
S2: those team members to up level their skills to grow.
S2: You're just helping them make their success easy by saying, great,
S2: this is the marketing course. This is the funnels course,
S2: this is the sales content and training and plan. And
S2: this is what this is going to have to look like.
S2: And you're demonstrating that success as a business owner, because
S2: if you're doing $8 million a year and you're trying
S2: to get to 50, you're listening to a podcast like this,
S2: you're up leveling your skills. You're sharing this stuff with
S2: your team. You're sending that example of what it takes.
S2: You have a goal. You get really technical about what
S2: skills you need to learn right now in order to
S2: get to the next step, and then you're duplicating that
S2: across the other team members who are looking at you
S2: as the person who's the example for the success inside
S2: the organization.
S1: I think you're doing it very well, and I think
S1: that people may not understand how impactful and useful that
S1: strategy that you just gave is, because I've seen the
S1: other side of it. I've seen the market where people
S1: are planning on jumping between competitors because it's easier to
S1: advance your career by going from company one to company two,
S1: because nobody invests in them and I think the bigger company,
S1: some do it okay. I think a lot of them
S1: miss the mark on that. I'll even tell you a
S1: wild story. Early on in my career, I was trying
S1: to move from small market to mid market sales, and
S1: there was a base and a compensation package. And, uh,
S1: my director at the time, he was arguing for a
S1: higher compensation they were offering at candidates who were coming
S1: from outside the organization, as opposed to what they could
S1: offer people that were internally promoted. And for some reason,
S1: it was like a $10,000 difference. So if you're internally promoted,
S1: you get say like 65. If you came from the outside,
S1: you can make 75. And he's like, this is the
S1: dumbest thing I've ever. So what we actually ended up
S1: doing is I ended up resigning and then applying, and
S1: then he brought me in as an external candidate. Like,
S1: how stupid, how stupid is it for a business to
S1: do that like that? That's absolutely ridiculous. So this is
S1: obviously the complete 180 of that type of mindset. Um,
S1: I know, I just think it's amazing. I think it's
S1: I think it's a very smart way to foster talent
S1: from within. Yeah. Just one more thought on what you
S1: just mentioned because I love this. Um, I think sales
S1: is such an important strategy. Obviously, Cardon is a very
S1: sales heavy organization. Yeah. This is how it all started out. Um,
S1: do you believe that? And I believe that at least
S1: entrepreneurs should be salespeople, and that's one of the most
S1: important skills to a point, like you mentioned. But do
S1: you believe that anybody can become a salesperson? Absolutely.
S2: Every single person in your organization, unless you have some
S2: licensure issue, like in a legal business or in a
S2: handful of medical businesses, you can't have your front office
S2: person selling certain procedures or certain services, but outside of
S2: some license issue, every single person in an organization should
S2: be training every day on the products and services and
S2: how to overcome objections for that business, because that is
S2: your expansion, especially if you are a small business. If
S2: you're a small business, you have five people to help
S2: you hit your growth goals. If you do not equip
S2: those five people to help you. Whose job is it
S2: to hit your growth goals? It's yours. You are entirely
S2: like holding all of this responsibility yourself. Instead of saying, hey, wait,
S2: there's five people. All of us are joined together through
S2: this mission. All of us are tied financially to the
S2: success of this organization. So I'm going to equip you
S2: guys with the right skills so that when you're having
S2: a conversation with somebody in an elevator, when you're having
S2: a conversation with somebody, some business owner, that would be
S2: the perfect fit for our organization at a coffee shop
S2: or a smoothie shop, or at a restaurant or at
S2: a at a networking event. You can confidently talk about
S2: what your products are and move them through a close.
S2: And if you're not training your people on how to
S2: do that, you're just accepting the fact that it is
S2: your responsibility. But then you're also wondering why everybody in
S2: your organization is disengaged. Well, of course they're disengaged because
S2: they don't know how to make any more money. You've
S2: hired them, you've set a salary for them. You don't
S2: have incentive compensation created. You don't have a commission structure
S2: in place. You're not training them on how they can
S2: make more money. So why would they stay engaged? The
S2: only reason that somebody is listening to a podcast like
S2: this is because they are interested in growing some skill set.
S2: If your value prop in your podcast was success stories,
S2: how to be the same in one year from now
S2: as you are today, no one would be listening to this.
S1: That's not a great tagline.
S2: It's a terrible tagline. But that's what we do to
S2: team members. That's what corporate America does to team members.
S2: They say, come in, we're going to set a base
S2: for you. We're not going to be smart enough to
S2: figure out what incentive metrics are. We're not going to
S2: have a conversation about what your goals are, because heaven
S2: forbid you tell us something that is important to you
S2: and then you sue us because you said something like,
S2: we've just created all of these weird structures and all
S2: of these weird, weird rules where business owners actually are
S2: creating a game where people only can be disengaged. That's
S2: their only default, is to be disengaged, because why else
S2: would I be engaged? They don't think of this people
S2: strategy as a game where they're playing something, and every
S2: single day they get to figure out this different way
S2: to engage great people, to get the best talent to
S2: them themselves. Be people in an organization worthy of having
S2: the best people. And so instead, they just bitched to
S2: their significant other all night long about how terrible Sally is,
S2: or Bob is or Susan is, and nobody wants to
S2: help them in their business. Well, if you allowed people
S2: to sell on your business, you'd at least be giving
S2: them a game to figure out how they can make
S2: more money, which is actually the contract that you guys have.
S2: Even if you're in a family business, the contract between
S2: team members, if you are working inside an organization and
S2: you have employed somebody, the contract is a financial one.
S2: If you stopped paying them, they would not show up
S2: on Monday morning. And yet we don't continue to create
S2: on the contract. We think that because they're nice or
S2: their family member, we don't want to upset them, that
S2: we're not going to hold them accountable. It's ridiculous. And
S2: then we also bitch and complain about why people aren't
S2: helping us grow our businesses. We've never created a structure
S2: for them to do that.
S1: That's an interesting. So it's interesting because I've seen the
S1: exact opposite, where part of the variable comp is tied
S1: to the company's performance, yet the person has no direct
S1: impact or perceived direct impact. I mean, everything impacts, but
S1: then it just creates this apathetic like, well, whatever happens,
S1: happens and I'm going to show up and clock in
S1: and clock out. How do you get people on board
S1: with becoming evangelist salespeople for the company? How do you
S1: remove the stigma of sales? Because there is there's always
S1: a stigma around sales, and there's a certain kind of
S1: person that likes to do it, and there's a lot
S1: of people that don't like to be sales. Right. So
S1: how do you get somebody to buy into this concept?
S1: Because once they once the money comes in, it's easy.
S1: But there's so much pressure and negativity around the concept
S1: of sales that for a lot of people, the gap
S1: between the first commission check and where they're at now
S1: in a product manager role is too big for them
S1: to understand. Okay, I'm going to start to go down
S1: this path and I'm going to start to be okay
S1: with rejection. I'm going to start to be okay with
S1: putting myself out there and calling people and emailing people,
S1: having conversations and evangelizing the company I'm working for. What's
S1: the what's the way to to tie it together? I
S1: have such.
S2: A hack for this. We're wild for this. Since we
S2: started this organization, we've had a daily alt meeting with
S2: every single person in our company. So today at 1145 eastern,
S2: 845 Pacific, our entire company will hop on a call.
S2: And there's a bunch of things that we do operationally
S2: and culturally on the beginning of that call, but the
S2: end of that call, every single day we pull up
S2: what's called the Cardone wheel and the Cardone wheel. Cardone
S2: stands for Cardinal University, has this like, Wheel of Fortune
S2: type thing on an iPad, and we spin the wheel,
S2: and every single person in the company's name is on
S2: this wheel. And so it spins and it lands on
S2: one person, and that one person shares with the whole company,
S2: whether we were 12 employees or now 350 employees. What
S2: they learned the day before from Carleton University, and then
S2: they role play in front of everybody.
S1: That's so stressful. But I guess you build it into
S1: the you build it into the culture of the company.
S1: So now you don't want to be the you don't
S1: want to be the the outlier. Right. That doesn't know
S1: something that can't role play. So you set the expectation,
S1: but it also normalizes it because everyone's doing it.
S2: Every single person is doing it whether you're a product tech, recruiting, videography,
S2: obviously sales are the best at it, but sometimes we
S2: have people in finance who just crush it and I'm like,
S2: oh my gosh, you should be a sales person. You
S2: could make more money if you were doing this versus
S2: doing that. But so we normalize this culture of everything
S2: that you want in life is a sale. So if
S2: you're saying to us you want to make more money,
S2: this is exactly what this looks like, and we're going
S2: to give you the tools to help you get better
S2: at this. We're not going to let you fail. The
S2: the purpose is not to make people look silly. But
S2: imagine you're showing up to to your first day of
S2: work inside our organization. Like it is just part of
S2: the culture, and the team is supportive and the chat
S2: and they're giving pointers and they're sharing what the links are.
S2: Carnal ventures.com/people. That's for upcoming essentials workshop. And they're just
S2: like figuring out how to help the person who's working
S2: through the sales process. But you're doing your team members
S2: a disservice if you are not addressing that. The number
S2: one skill that they can learn in a business is
S2: to sell. You are selling yourself. You are selling your team.
S2: You are selling the product. You are selling the opportunity.
S2: You are constantly selling in any successful role. And so
S2: why do we think that we shouldn't allow people to
S2: hone that skill set to develop that, to overcome that
S2: negative mindset? To me, it just demonstrates that a company
S2: isn't really willing to have harder conversations about what true
S2: value creation looks like in a business. True value is
S2: being able to overcome things that you're uncomfortable with. In
S2: my head of product cannot figure out how to intelligently
S2: speak and talk to the value proposition of our organization
S2: to a potential client. They're not the right product officer
S2: inside our organization. They can go work. They can work
S2: for Facebook. They can work for some other place. They
S2: are not the right person for us because we want people.
S2: I want that product officer to be able to sell
S2: to me why I should listen to their idea. If
S2: they can't do that with me and they can't do
S2: that with a customer, they're not the right person.
S1: Yeah, I think that that's an incredible it's an incredible strategy.
S1: I don't think many companies do that and.
S2: Most companies fail.
S1: I 97%. Yeah.
S2: So because they're not willing to have the conversation and
S2: we become so complacent with like, oh, I'm just gonna
S2: let my recruitment people be who they.
S1: Well, developers. Developers are a certain personality type recruit a
S1: certain I mean, and then there's this whole animosity between
S1: marketing and sales because marketing is like, oh, you know,
S1: like we we're the intellectual component of the revenue and
S1: sales is like, oh, well, no, we actually make the money.
S1: And then you have all this, these compartmentalized, siloed business
S1: units that that don't play well together. I mean, go
S1: to any company. And I mean, there's not a hard
S1: and fast rule, but go have a conversation between a
S1: CRO and a CTO. And it's like they're speaking different
S1: languages from different planets and there's no cohesion. And I
S1: think it actually really inhibits I mean, I've been on
S1: I've been on zoom calls where CTO refuses to even
S1: turn on a camera or does like work until four
S1: in the morning so they don't show up for morning meetings, like,
S1: like just completely different cultures, and you end up disrespecting
S1: each other and you end up making all of your
S1: jobs harder, too. It's worked well. I'm assuming.
S2: It's worked.
S1: Great. I've never heard anybody say this before. It's such
S1: a sales heavy organization, but it's very interesting. It's a
S1: new concept I've never heard before.
S2: You have to cut the shit. Yeah, like, what is
S2: the purpose of a business? It is to service customers.
S2: In order to service customers, you have to get customers.
S2: You have to sell like sales is a part of
S2: the CTO and the CRO having a conversation. We have
S2: to remember and realign our teams with why we're here
S2: and if we're here to solve customer's customers problems by
S2: selling them on why we are the best. Let's let's
S2: make that the DNA of the company. I don't want
S2: to hear the conversation between the CRO and the CTO
S2: having their like, fiefdoms. And I'm going to be in
S2: my side and our team is going to be against you.
S2: We are one team. We are one team that has
S2: one expectation. And if you the further you get from
S2: why the business exists, which is to sell customers, to
S2: move the business forward and ideally offer a great product
S2: and service, a solution to their problem. The further you
S2: get from that, you spend time and your executives spend
S2: time dealing with this bullshit of different opinions. How we're
S2: going to work in certain ways. So us ingraining this
S2: into our culture. Sure, we've had people that don't want
S2: to be a part of it that has not stopped
S2: us from growing. We will find people who are interested
S2: and are okay with this, and it's the way that
S2: we want our culture to be created. And so maybe
S2: for the business owner or the the listener who's in
S2: an organization right now, you're like, this could never fly
S2: inside our business. You have to ask yourself, why? Why
S2: would this not work inside your organization? Who would you
S2: be pissing off? And when you think about those individuals,
S2: it's likely a handful of people. It's not a groups
S2: of people. It's a handful of people.
S1: They all have egos.
S2: Yeah, yeah. But then why are we being reasonable to
S2: the egos if we know that this is what's beneficial,
S2: not just to your CTO. Your CTO probably knows how
S2: to sell because that's how they got the job they got,
S2: like selling themselves. They have some sort of confidence. They
S2: have some sort of skill set that they're able to say,
S2: this is my resume because I was able to do
S2: these great things. But what what are we doing to
S2: help that CTO actually develop their team members to have
S2: those skills? We're we're letting the person who sleeps in
S2: until 4:00 doesn't show up to team meetings. Setting the
S2: worst example. But they're supposed to be helping the people
S2: underneath them get to the next level of success. It's
S2: very unlikely that those people are actually going to be
S2: able to develop the right skills, because they don't have
S2: a leader who's focused on the right things. If you
S2: focus on the right things sales, the business growth through sales,
S2: it doesn't grow through anything else. There's no magical thing
S2: that happens that doesn't allow the business to grow through sales.
S2: If we're not teaching that to people, we're actually doing
S2: them a disservice and not teaching them what the value
S2: is of their role, regardless of their in HR, accounting, tech, whatever.
S1: And when you see this, when, when you don't solve
S1: this problem early on and when you don't create cohesion
S1: throughout all your team members, what you see as a
S1: company scales is you'll see different departments actually like fighting
S1: each other. And this is I mean, I've seen this
S1: several times where like, a company was acquired and then
S1: a certain, a certain tech piece of the business was
S1: building a competitive product to the company that was just acquired.
S1: And basically you're cannibalizing yourself or you're competing yourself or
S1: you're you're you have two similar products and tech is
S1: pushing one, and then marketing is pushing one. And it's
S1: just messy. It's very messy. If everybody feels like like
S1: a fiefdom, I love that, like everybody is sort of
S1: king of their own little part of the business. Um,
S1: it creates a ton of mess and it will only
S1: get worse, and it'll make everything more difficult to scale
S1: as you grow. And I think that this is probably
S1: why now I'm unpacking why you've been able to grow
S1: so quickly. You focus on cohesion. You focus on everyone
S1: in the brand. Being an evangelist, you focus on being
S1: a people first business, but you're doing it and you
S1: found ways to build process around it. Even at $1 billion,
S1: assets under management, even with hundreds of millions of dollars
S1: in revenue. So I think a lot of people start
S1: out with the right intentions, but I think as they grow,
S1: I think they lose sight. And then the corporate America
S1: example is what happens, not the Cardone Ventures, Cardone Capital
S1: Cardone example, which is really what you're trying to preserve.
S1: So you don't sacrifice that at the for the sake
S1: of scale and growth for sure.
S2: And the small business owner. Yeah, if I can just
S2: urge them to not be reasonable with their first 50
S2: team members, could we not allow the excuses and the
S2: personalities to get in the way of what the mission
S2: of the organization is. You start to build this strength
S2: where you're like, wait a second, just because Bob has
S2: this great resume and he comes from this pedigree, doesn't
S2: mean that he gets to run a train in my
S2: business and make all of these decisions in a way
S2: that is not in alignment with who I am. If
S2: you can do that with your first 50 team members
S2: and have your leaders be the type of people that
S2: actually represent your brand and that you like working with,
S2: and that are an example of what you want. Future
S2: team members, your 200th team member, your 500 team member
S2: to be like, if that's not how you feel about
S2: your first 50 team members, then keep weeding out the
S2: people that you are being reasonable with. So you keep
S2: this philosophy of I'm going to be unreasonable because then
S2: when you have those people, those first 50 people, they
S2: will help you scale and grow the departments the right way.
S2: But if you start being reasonable with your fifth employee,
S2: and people become reasonable for all sorts of reasons, because
S2: they don't think they can find better people, they think
S2: that the problems that Bob has are better than the
S2: unknown problems that Joe is going to bring in the business.
S2: They don't think that there's enough talent. They hear these
S2: stories like what your friends were telling you about somebody
S2: in their second week, renegotiating their salary, like all of
S2: these random things in a business happen. But you have
S2: to stay true to this is what I'm trying to build.
S2: These are the people I want to spend my time around.
S2: If you do not fit this, I am confident that
S2: I will find somebody who will. So no thank you,
S2: thank you, but no thank you. I'm going to replace
S2: you with somebody who is in alignment with what I
S2: want this business to look like. And if you can
S2: stick to that early on as a small business owner,
S2: you'll be able to have the confidence to reset with
S2: a problematic CRO and CTO because it's just the same
S2: thing on a larger scale and with more team members,
S2: I love this. Um.
S1: So start the work. You can get it anywhere. You
S1: can get books, obviously. So Amazon will put links in
S1: the show notes. What would be one thing that you
S1: wish you put in the book that you may be
S1: left out?
S2: Mhm. Oh, that's such a good question. I'm sure there's.
S1: A lot but.
S2: It's such a good question. You know I teach all
S2: of the content that's in the book. And so funny enough,
S2: I just came off of two days of teaching this
S2: specific content, and the group of people in the room
S2: are business owners and leaders navigating metrics and quarterly team meetings.
S2: And they're like, in the thick of it. And if
S2: I could include anything which I still technically can because
S2: the resources can be added and changed, I would just
S2: give more tangible examples of what success looks like with
S2: metrics tracking, because it's not the same across every single business.
S2: And so I'm a big visual learner. I think a
S2: lot of times business owners get confused because something doesn't
S2: instantly apply to their business, and they can't contextualize how
S2: it could apply to their business. And so they just
S2: don't do the thing. Like they don't understand what a
S2: PNL is. And so they kind of always push this
S2: thing off because they, they don't understand this one word.
S2: And all of a sudden they're now operating a business
S2: without financials. And so as I was teaching this content
S2: this weekend, we had different groups of people in the room.
S2: And I was like, man, I would love to give
S2: the example of a quarterly team meeting for a business
S2: services organization versus an HVAC business, because there are nuances
S2: in building out a library of more tangible things that
S2: people can really see, like, aha, that's me, I'm going
S2: to pick this resource. I'm a super tactical person. The
S2: book is super tactical. I want to just give all
S2: of the solutions for people to be able to implement.
S2: And when I look back on it, I'm like, oh,
S2: there's still so many more examples that I can give.
S2: So I probably am going to actually add more resources
S2: to the book.
S1: Um, I think, I think that some of these things
S1: can be overwhelming for people that are just operating in business,
S1: especially 1 to 3 million. You probably you may or
S1: may not know what KPIs are. You may or may
S1: not know what a PNL is. OKRs are a various,
S1: you know, a version of KPIs that maybe are a
S1: little bit more confusing and complex quarterly meetings. I mean,
S1: you have meetings, but like, what's the point of a
S1: quarterly meeting? What's the point of an annual meeting if
S1: you were going to look at all the different metrics
S1: and things that people should look at as a business owner,
S1: maybe just very briefly, because obviously they're going to go
S1: to the book to get a lot more nuance. What
S1: are the main things that are important? What are the
S1: things that maybe can be pushed off even until the
S1: $8 million break point? Mhm.
S2: I would push off quarterly team meetings to the $8
S2: million break points. I would absolutely have a daily metrics
S2: tracker inside your business. At the start, you looking at
S2: 15 things that are happening in your business every single
S2: day between your marketing, sales, cash collected and operational functions.
S2: Those initiatives you should be looking at the changes daily,
S2: what's working, what's not working, and really understand the pulse
S2: of your business. You don't have to look at them
S2: weekly if you're looking at them daily and when you're
S2: looking at them daily. I wrap this into a daily
S2: alt meeting because from my standpoint, if you're a 15
S2: team HVAC business and you're doing 1 million or 1
S2: million and a half dollars in revenue, you're going to
S2: know what's working so fast. If you're looking at the
S2: daily change, it's not it doesn't take a rocket science
S2: to figure out, oh, we got all of these leads yesterday.
S2: What did we do right yesterday? Oh, we didn't get
S2: very many leads yesterday. What happened was something broken was
S2: something not connected. You're so much more in tune with
S2: looking at and understanding what's happening in your business when
S2: you're actually doing this daily. And it's a practice that
S2: if you wait until your financials come back to you
S2: a month later, you're not actually able to impact revenue,
S2: you're not able to make a change. And I strongly
S2: encourage business owners to schedule their day around what's happening
S2: inside the business. How am I looking at these daily metrics?
S2: How do I have time for myself and the key
S2: people that I'm dependent upon to make a change that
S2: day based off of what's not working any longer? If
S2: something didn't work yesterday, how am I making time for
S2: my day today to fix or to look at what's
S2: not working any longer. Because how many days am I
S2: going to go? How many weeks? How many months am
S2: I going to go before I realize that the leads
S2: aren't connected, or that my sales person is reading the
S2: wrong script and their conversions are going around or are
S2: going down? The smaller you are, the more easy it
S2: is to be able to see those things that are
S2: working and aren't working. Do less of the things that
S2: aren't working, do more of the things that are working
S2: and you're going to be able to make time for
S2: making those tweaks quickly. If you're looking at those numbers
S2: every single day, it's not metrics for metrics sake, it's
S2: metrics so that I can actually reorganize my day, not
S2: to fight fires, not to deal with the BS that
S2: my team has created on some issue. It's to actually
S2: fix something that's not working.
S1: Would you say daily metrics or daily meetings are more important?
S2: Both daily metrics and then a daily meeting. That's what
S2: it looks like for us. Even today, I have a
S2: daily metrics report that gets sent into my email as
S2: soon as the day starts from yesterday that is aligned
S2: with our daily all team meeting. And then immediately afterwards,
S2: there's a leadership meeting for us to block and tackle.
S2: What happened? Why is this thing off? How are we
S2: doing more of that? And then there's obviously time to
S2: look into the future and to say, okay, how are
S2: we strategically planning and how are we fixing things and
S2: what are where are we going and how are we
S2: aligning the initiatives with that stuff? That stuff needs to happen.
S2: But most business owners, in order to get from 1
S2: million or 3 million and actually hit an 8 million
S2: or 10 million or $15 million target, they have to
S2: pay attention to what's actually happening in their business today,
S2: not future casting and shiny penning all of the different
S2: initiatives that could be happening right.
S1: Now, and also like leading indicators as opposed to lagging
S1: indicators for success too. I think that we get caught
S1: up in vanity metrics and lagging indicators way too much.
S2: Couldn't agree more.
S1: Um, okay. Uh, if you were going to anything that
S1: we didn't cover, we went to a lot. So anything
S1: that we didn't cover that you wanted to go into
S1: from the book, anything that you can talk about, stuff
S1: you're working on now, that's not the book because you
S1: have like these, you present all the time. So cossitt workshops, obviously. Um,
S1: we could talk about just where people can connect with
S1: you as well and get all the socials and the handles.
S1: But anything that we didn't go into.
S2: You know, it's funny, this is the first podcast that
S2: I've done in four years where this thing happened, and
S2: I want to talk about this on the podcast. This
S2: thing happened five minutes into the podcast and this thing
S2: that used to plague me and not allow me to
S2: publicly speak. I was terrified of publicly speaking five years ago,
S2: six years ago, eight years ago. I had no confidence
S2: because every time I would get into a room after
S2: I had this horrible, nightmarish public speaking event, this like
S2: thing would happen in my brain where I would hear
S2: 15 different voices all at the same time. And instead
S2: of being able to communicate what I wanted to communicate,
S2: 15 different people were talking to me. And like, I
S2: almost couldn't hear my own thoughts. And so I worked
S2: with a speaking coach. I when you talk about reps,
S2: like I put in reps for every opportunity I could
S2: get to make a toast, to host a group meeting
S2: to record myself. I would do that so I could
S2: get over this thing that was happening to me. And
S2: the craziest thing happened ten or maybe even five minutes
S2: in where that took place. And I thought that I
S2: was over that. And what I want to share with
S2: the audience through this podcast experience is even when you
S2: think you've gotten good at something, you might not be
S2: so good at that thing, and you're never over those
S2: pieces that you're worried about or might have had insecurity
S2: about years ago. And so this game of creating a
S2: business and being a public speaker and figuring out how
S2: to get confidence and figuring out how to host a
S2: podcast or launch a social media platform, whatever it is,
S2: it is a continuous, evolving learning opportunity. And when you
S2: make mistakes or when you mess something up, it's so
S2: easy to just like internalize. And I think that this
S2: is one of my superpowers. Even with the book, there
S2: are tons of things that after you hit publish, you're like,
S2: I want to fix it and I want to do more.
S2: But that's the exact thing that I think plagues people
S2: and stops them is they get so caught up in,
S2: I want to do more. I have to perfect it,
S2: or they're so hard on themselves that they don't just
S2: keep moving forward and they don't figure out how to
S2: overcome from a mindset standpoint, those those moments where they're
S2: embarrassed or frustrated or disappointed in themselves. And so we
S2: didn't talk too much about mindset things. But I know
S2: I'm going to rewatch this podcast. I'm going to listen
S2: to the podcast and be like, man, what happened there?
S2: And how could I have done that differently? But at
S2: the same time, five years ago, I would have just
S2: beaten myself up for this like thing that I perceive
S2: I can't control. Of course I can control it, I
S2: know I can, but in the moment it feels like
S2: it's uncontrollable and that just urging the person that's listening
S2: to this right now, that if you're struggling through something
S2: where you're feeling like you have to take two steps
S2: back and you just continue to take two steps, two
S2: steps back, it's okay that that happens to you. It's
S2: okay that there are moments where you're not perfect. You
S2: just have to keep going on with the thing, and
S2: you have to just keep remembering that the target is.
S2: In this case, it's the finished podcast, right? But in
S2: a bigger things in life, it's making sure that the
S2: perfection that you want isn't the thing that actually stops
S2: you from continuing to move forward.
S1: I would say that also. I mean, it's never as
S1: bad as you think it is. That's true. I mean,
S1: it's really it's never bad as like we our, our
S1: perception conflates this issue in our mind and it causes
S1: panic and stress and And it's never that bad and
S1: it's honestly never even noticeable.
S2: Sometimes it is that bad. Okay, maybe sometimes it can
S2: be pretty freaking bad. Like, have you ever had one
S2: of those moments where it's pretty bad? Something you do
S2: just sounds horrendous.
S1: Yes.
S2: But something.
S1: But when I listen back to it, it's never as
S1: bad as I think it is interesting. And I also
S1: I also understand now because I've usually it's in some
S1: sort of like performance based, like speaking on a podcast
S1: or speaking on stage. What it actually is, it's, it's
S1: it's a protection mechanism. And your cortisol increases and you
S1: get a small little panic, micro panic attack, and then
S1: your body just has to like level out and normalize.
S1: But the thing is, when we get this panic attack,
S1: if we don't know that it's actually a natural response
S1: to being put on stage or being put on the spot,
S1: we we think there's something wrong with us. And then
S1: we'll be thinking about that thing as opposed to like,
S1: what we're actually trying to do. And it will actually
S1: we will create this, this mindset where we keep thinking
S1: it's happening to us even though it's not. Yep. And
S1: we'll keep stumbling. We'll keep and and you can usually
S1: for me at least, I can tell when I'm stressed
S1: out about something because my mouth gets dry. That's like
S1: the one sign now by doing it 500 times or
S1: by speaking on stage, not 500 times, but enough, um,
S1: I can perform through it. But that's again, just because
S1: of doing the reps. It's 100% doing the reps.
S2: Putting in the work.
S1: By the way, we could do a whole mindset podcast,
S1: but I wanted to get the tactics though.
S2: I love the tactics.
S1: Tactics are important. Tactics are very important. Um, if people
S1: want to connect with you, where should they go?
S2: Natalie Dawson I am super, super involved on Instagram. I
S2: answer all my own DMs. I love Instagram, it's my
S2: platform of choice, so find me there. Perfect.
S1: Last question. If you were going to tell your 20
S1: year old self one thing, what would it be?
S2: I would tell my 20 year old self to go
S2: all in. I was so worried about what people thought
S2: of me, and got so wrapped up in my own
S2: limitations that I just like, tried a bunch of things
S2: that I never wanted to commit to something, even things
S2: that I liked. I used to like scrapbooking. Scrapbooking was
S2: like my thing, but I had some friends that made
S2: fun of me for scrapbooking. And so I stopped doing
S2: the scrapbooking, which sounds ridiculous. But today you see people
S2: who have built $1 million or $10 million or $100
S2: million scrapbooking business because they were just really passionate and
S2: into that thing. And so for so long, I really
S2: felt like I held myself back, especially at the age
S2: of 20, from going all in on the things that
S2: interested me, because I was fearful and insecure and really
S2: worried about what other people think. And today, the interests
S2: and passions that I have, I'm like, I'm crazy and
S2: a freak and a fanatic about those things. And I
S2: slowed my growth by 8 to 10 years by not
S2: having that mentality a lot sooner. I love.
S1: It. All right. I want to say thank you for
S1: coming on, and I just want to say thank you
S1: for for making the entrepreneur journey less, uh, less stressful.
S1: I think that's very important. I think that's very, very important.
S1: I'm a big fan of entrepreneurship, obviously, and I think
S1: what you're doing is amazing for small business owners, for
S1: people that are just trying to figure out, okay, what
S1: did I get myself into? Yep. And thank you for
S1: doing that.
S2: Thank you. Appreciate you.