WEBVTT - Improving ATO Service

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Hello, my name is Gillian Bowen, the Australian Manager of

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Public Affairs at Chartered Accountants ANZ or CA ANZ. This is

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Small Firm, Big Impact.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>We're hearing lots of feedback from our members about the

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>ATO being slow to get back to them and to

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>respond to client needs. We're also hearing from members that

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>they're feeling a lot of tax administration is being pushed

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>onto them by the ATO. They're finding it difficult to

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>deal with PayG instalments. They're finding that communication from the

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>ATO is excessive and is not well targeted. Unless we

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>start lodging complaints about slow processes with the ATO, the

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>issue remains below the surface.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>It's the podcast giving you and your clients the up

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>I share resources, tools, and expert advice provided by CA

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>ANZ and a range of people across our profession. So

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>And if you've got an idea for the show, email

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com Today we have Senior Tax Advocate Susan Franks, the

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>topic recent member experiences with the Australian Tax Office and

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>its services and what CA ANZ is doing to help. Susan Franks,

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>welcome to Small Firm, Big Impact.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Oh hi Gill. It's great to be here.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>So in the last week or so, one of our

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>members posed a few questions to us to ask about

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>what CA ANZ is doing to advocate on behalf of members

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>regarding the ATO's recent performance when it comes to service standards.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>So our members obviously have a lot of interaction with

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>the ATO. Now I'll read part of Ashley Carmichael's post.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>He says I had the displeasure of following up a

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>matter today that remains unresolved after six months. This, sadly,

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>is not a unique case. He goes on. The ATO

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>complaints department advise that their service standard for resolving complaints

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>is now blown out to 30 business days, and that

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>they are receiving 1100 complaints a week. He asks about

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Under-resourcing in their processing areas. He asks what action is

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>happening to address this issue. Mr. Carmichael believes it's costing

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>CA ANZ members significant resources in wasted time spent following up

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>unresolved matters and submitting complaints on behalf of clients. And

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>there are some important points raised here, and I thought

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>it was an opportunity to discuss what CA ANZ has been

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>doing on this matter and other issues that are impacting

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>our members right now. So that's why I've got Susan involved.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Let's get started and pick some of this apart. What

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>else do you think? Or what else do you know

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>about the issue that Ashley Carmichael is talking about here?

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Look, what Ashley is talking about is a very, very

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>common complaint. We're hearing lots of feedback from our members

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>about the ATO being slow to get back to them

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>and to respond to client needs. What we're hearing is

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>the 28 day service standard. Our members are expecting an

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>issue to be resolved in 28 days, and what the

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>ATO doing is not touching an issue until 28 days,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>then asking a further question. So the 28 day starts

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>again and the matter just goes on and on and on.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>We're also hearing from members that they're feeling a lot

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>of tax administration is being pushed onto them by the ATO.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>They're finding it difficult to deal with instalments. They're finding

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>that communication from the ATO is excessive and is not

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>well targeted.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>So why is the ATO doing that touch point that

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>you were talking about in regards to waiting until the

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>end of the 28 days, and then it kind of

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>seems to roll on or reset. Why are they doing that?

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>With this issue has been raised by chartered accountants and

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>other industry bodies at the Tax Practitioner Stewardship Group numerous times.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>It's been an ongoing issue for a number of years

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>when the issue has been raised at the Tax Practitioner

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Stewardship Group meeting, the ATO points out that accountants are

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>not the only people trying to recruit staff so that

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>they can service taxpayers well. The ATO is also experiencing

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>that issue as well.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>So it looks as though then the issue isn't going

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>to be solved quickly. It's hard to recruit people, as

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>we would know then. So what is it that is

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>going to be the next steps here? Then? What is

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>it that our members can do to try and alleviate

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>the stress on their end?

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Well, we've actually been talking to the ATO about this,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>and unfortunately, getting greater staff into those areas is not

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>the answer at the moment. And what the ATO is

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>looking at is actually putting more of the services through

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>tax agents, online services. So they're trying to put more

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>and more into that product so tax agents can self

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>service more. When we went and spoke to the Inspector

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>General of Taxation about these issues, she actually suggested that

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>we use the complaint line on the basis that what

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>gets measured gets actioned. And what we've found is members

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>that have had issues about the 28 day service period,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>when they've lodged a complaint with the complaint line, they've

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>actually had their issues resolved fairly quickly.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Let's then talk more in depth about that complaints process,

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>because it appears to be the way to go to

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>get some more action done quicker. How does it work?

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Well, there are several ways that our members can lodge

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>a complaint. If, assuming that most of them are tax agents,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>what you can do is submit your complaint using the

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Tax Practitioner Complaints online form through online services for agents.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>And you do that by going to reports and forms,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>selecting forms, and then selecting the tax practitioner complaint. You

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>can also phone the ATO using the 1800 199 010 number. Monday

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>to Friday. Or you could write to the ATO. But

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>it's important when you're actually expressing your concern that you

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>write the outcome that you want and provide details that

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>they can action it.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>And can you do this after like is there a

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>time period you have to wait before you're allowed to

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>lodge a complaint?

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Well, you.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Usually have to wait till at least 28 days so

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>that they can actually have a chance to progress things.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>And it is preferred that you actually try to resolve

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>it directly with the person you're dealing with as soon

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>as you possibly can. But that can sometimes be difficult

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>because the ATO won't necessarily answer the phone until the

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>28 day period has finished. And that is particularly problematic

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>if you're trying to negotiate a payment plan with the

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>ATO and get finance for you and your client at

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>the same time.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>So there'll be members listening along,

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>who'll be like, this is ridiculous. We're busy. And then

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>the only way to get action is to lodge a complaint.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Is there any light at the end of the tunnel,

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>any sort of solution in the in the short term

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>to help with this additional admin that they will then

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>need to start doing.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Why do it? Because what gets measured gets actions. So

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>unless we start lodging complaints about slow processes with the ATO,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>the issue remains below the surface and and festering. If

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>we need to get the Inspector General of Taxation to

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>look at an issue, she needs data to make decisions

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>and to make recommendations. And we also need data for

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>the ..., for the ATO to be seen to be

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>failing some KPIs. So lodge your  complaint. Get that data there

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>so real action can be taken going forward.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Okay. So what resources do we have out there to

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>help with all of this.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Well, we've been working continuously with the raising members issues

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>with them. So every time people write to us to

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>taxteamau@charteredaccountantsanz.com or contacts the member helpline, and we get a

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Salesforce query coming through. We contact the member and talk

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>to them and put them in touch with the appropriate

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>people to resolve their issues. And quite often when we're

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>getting those type of complaints through from members, there's a

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>systemic issue which we then work with the ATO to

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>try and resolve. We've also been hearing a lot of

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>complaints about online services for agents, and it's continuously developing

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>and changing. So what we've got the ATO to agree

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>to is to present a sharing knowledge session twice a year,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>just on updates in relation to online services for agents,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>and particularly the deferred lodgement process, to try and help

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>our members understand how the ATO approaches this, these matters,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>so that they can align their systems more efficiently and

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>effectively within their practices as well.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Have those two sessions for this year already been held

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>or is there something coming up soon?

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>We've had two sessions this year and they've been very

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>well attended and been very practical. Our members have been

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>very engaged in those sharing knowledge sessions, which is fantastic

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>because what we've been able to do with that data

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>and the questions that our members have asked is de-identify it,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>group it together and put that back to the ATO saying, look,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>these are the pain points. These are the issues that

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>our members want to get resolved so they can then

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>work on it. And then they know that in six

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>months time, they're going to be presenting to these same

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>people and they're going to need to do an update

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>for them. So that's the process we've been doing behind

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>the scenes to try and get the ATO to action.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Some of the pain points that our members are going.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Through and have they been actioning them?

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>We have. We've had members on deferred lodgement working groups.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>We've had we've got two current members on the vision

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>for tax agents in 2030, and they are taking their

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>comments on board and designing systems around what our members

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>are actually telling the ATO in the discussions about getting

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>lodgement processes better and the vision for 2030.

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>So what I will do,

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>is I'll get the links to those two recent sharing

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>knowledge sessions and put them in the show notes so

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>they're easy for people to find. And on that page

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>as well, I'm sure there will be alerts about the

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>upcoming sessions that you'll be able to register for next year,

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>so that you can get all the information that you

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>need there and continue that conversation, that process, that pipeline

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>of information between our members and the ATO, because it

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>sounds like it's very important for getting through some of

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>those issues and sorting out solutions. Look, we're almost out

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>of time. Is there anything else that CA ANZ is advocating

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<v Gillian Bowen, Host>on that would be worth our members knowing about?

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>It's actually worth our members knowing about that, we often

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>use tax news to give links to upcoming sharing knowledge sessions,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>which are very relevant and very practical for our members,

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>and also to use. Call us. Call the member service line.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Call it. Write to us via taxteamau@charteredaccountantsanz.com so that your

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>concerns can be addressed and you are heard. In relation

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>to what we're actually going to be talking about next year.

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<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>We're sitting down and talking to the ATO all the time.

0:12:11.059 --> 0:12:15.650
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>So every time that a member writes to us, we're

0:12:15.650 --> 0:12:18.500
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>sitting down and discussing that with the ATO. So we've

0:12:18.500 --> 0:12:22.220
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>been having monthly meetings with the ATO about debt collection,

0:12:22.220 --> 0:12:25.579
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>because there's got $100 billion of tax to collect. They're

0:12:25.580 --> 0:12:29.570
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>writing letters to, you know, 20,000 people at a time.

0:12:29.750 --> 0:12:33.500
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>So we've got monthly meetings with them to discuss issues

0:12:33.500 --> 0:12:37.310
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>that our members are facing. For example, getting SMS messages

0:12:37.309 --> 0:12:40.550
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>within two days of a debt being late, the ability

0:12:40.550 --> 0:12:45.650
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>to see pay notices or inability rather to see pay notices.

0:12:46.250 --> 0:12:50.059
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>Members getting daily calls about a tax debt. Now with

0:12:50.059 --> 0:12:53.990
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>that one, the ATO resolved that fairly quickly and they

0:12:53.990 --> 0:12:58.429
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>needed to because it was escalating substantially. But the ATO's also

0:12:58.429 --> 0:13:01.339
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>gone back and changed the education of their people about

0:13:01.340 --> 0:13:04.970
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>how they actually document these calls. We've also been talking

0:13:04.970 --> 0:13:08.120
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>about the to the ATO, about how they actually write

0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.880
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>their letters, making sure that they don't have out to

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.640
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>date of information, or sending out letters with no date

0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.250
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>on them, so that there's less work for our clients.

0:13:16.460 --> 0:13:21.050
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>And they've now got a working group that just reviews

0:13:21.050 --> 0:13:24.290
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>some of the standard letters before they go out. So

0:13:24.290 --> 0:13:26.329
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>there is a lot on and there's a lot that

0:13:26.330 --> 0:13:28.850
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>we're doing, and there's a lot of avenues that we're

0:13:28.850 --> 0:13:33.439
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>talking to the ATO about. So please keep on writing

0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.110
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>to us and letting us know what your concerns are

0:13:36.140 --> 0:13:39.590
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>so that your views can be represented to the ATO.

0:13:39.860 --> 0:13:40.220
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Mhm.

0:13:40.230 --> 0:13:42.229
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Mhm. It's a very good point. And on that if

0:13:42.230 --> 0:13:44.510
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>you want to find out more I will put a

0:13:44.510 --> 0:13:46.790
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>link to all the bits and pieces that Susan has

0:13:46.790 --> 0:13:49.250
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>mentioned in the show notes, so that you can easily

0:13:49.250 --> 0:13:51.830
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>find them. And they'll also be on the show's podcast

0:13:51.830 --> 0:13:54.260
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>page on the CA ANZ website. I'll put a link to

0:13:54.260 --> 0:13:56.329
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>that as well, and I'll include all those contacts that

0:13:56.330 --> 0:13:59.390
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Susan talked about, because that's important for the members to

0:13:59.390 --> 0:14:02.540
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>keep up their communication with, and said so that we

0:14:02.540 --> 0:14:06.350
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>can then send on that information and advocate on your behalf.

0:14:06.350 --> 0:14:10.100
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Follow the podcast as well. Search Small Firm, Big Impact

0:14:10.100 --> 0:14:13.370
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>in your podcast app right now and follow. And the

0:14:13.370 --> 0:14:18.890
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>podcast has an email, so feel free to get in touch. podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com.

0:14:18.890 --> 0:14:23.300
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Let's start a conversation. Thank you to Ashley Carmichael for

0:14:23.300 --> 0:14:26.390
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>putting that post on social media and letting us have

0:14:26.390 --> 0:14:30.530
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>a discussion about all things ATO and member services. And

0:14:30.530 --> 0:14:33.230
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>thank you to Susan Franks, our Senior Tax Advocate, for

0:14:33.230 --> 0:14:35.420
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>being our expert on Small Firm, Big Impact.

0:14:35.870 --> 0:14:37.950
<v Susan Franks CA, Senior Tax Advocate>You're welcome. Thank you for the opportunity, Gill.

0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:39.290
<v Gillian Bowen, Host>Bye bye.