Gillian Bowen, Host: Hello, my name is Gillian Bowen, Public Affairs Manager at
Gillian Bowen, Host: Chartered Accountants, ANZ. This is Small Firm, Big Impact.
Merran Brooks FCA: CAAG is, basically groups of senior members located in in New
Merran Brooks FCA: Zealand and also in all the states in in Australia
Merran Brooks FCA: set up to assist and support members if they're having
Merran Brooks FCA: professional or ethical dilemmas.
Ross Jackson FCA: A lot of it's around client disputes and get into a conflict
Ross Jackson FCA: situation or even conflicts with other members.
Merran Brooks FCA: We have members that get in touch with us that
Merran Brooks FCA: don't have anybody else that they can bounce an idea off.
Gillian Bowen, Host: It's the podcast giving you and your clients the up
Gillian Bowen, Host: to date information you need to do your jobs. Each
Gillian Bowen, Host: fortnight I share resources, tools and expert advice provided by CA
Gillian Bowen, Host: ANZ and a range of people across our profession. So
Gillian Bowen, Host: make sure you're following the pod in your favourite podcast app.
Gillian Bowen, Host: And if you've got an idea for the show email
Gillian Bowen, Host: podcast@charterdaccountantsanz.com Today we have Ross Jackson, FCA, who's the New
Gillian Bowen, Host: Zealand chair of the CA Advisory Group, and Merran Brooks, FCA,
Gillian Bowen, Host: who's a member of the New South Wales CA Advisory Group.
Gillian Bowen, Host: The topic: what is the CA Advisory Group and how it
Gillian Bowen, Host: can help you with ethical decisions? Ross and Merran, welcome
Gillian Bowen, Host: to Small Firm, Big Impact.
Merran Brooks FCA: Hey Gill, how are you?
Ross Jackson FCA: Thanks, Gillian. Welcome and hope you enjoy this podcast.
Gillian Bowen, Host: I'm really looking forward to the chat that we've got
Gillian Bowen, Host: planned for today, and I know our members will find
Gillian Bowen, Host: it insightful as well. So before we get cracking into
Gillian Bowen, Host: that I thought to start, it might be a good idea
Gillian Bowen, Host: for you both to give me an overview of your expertise. Ross,
Gillian Bowen, Host: why don't you go first? Tell me a bit about yourself.
Ross Jackson FCA: I'm a partner and have been for 30 years in
Ross Jackson FCA: a mid-size public practice firm in the lower South island
Ross Jackson FCA: of New Zealand, employing around 75 staff, mainly in business advisory.
Ross Jackson FCA: And I've had a long association with Chartered Accountants Australia
Ross Jackson FCA: and New Zealand. Being chair of the Public Practice Review
Ross Jackson FCA: Board and was national president back in 2011 and also
Ross Jackson FCA: been the NZ CAAG chair since its inception.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Okay, brilliant. All right. Merran, how about you?
Merran Brooks FCA: Mine's a little bit different, I think. Gill. I started
Merran Brooks FCA: life in a regional city in New South Wales in
Merran Brooks FCA: a big four firm as an auditor, like lots of
Merran Brooks FCA: people did back then. And I spent some time in
Merran Brooks FCA: a second tier, a small practice, and then I had
Merran Brooks FCA: my own micro practice for a short time after I
Merran Brooks FCA: did my CA program, which was called PY back then, I became
Merran Brooks FCA: involved with CA ANZ as a workshop facilitator with the with
Merran Brooks FCA: the old CA program. And what I realised at that point was
Merran Brooks FCA: that I loved teaching. So from that, from facilitating with
Merran Brooks FCA: CA AN Z, it's led to a lot of my time
Merran Brooks FCA: being spent in education, teaching, post-grad accounting. Through all of
Merran Brooks FCA: that time. I've spent a lot of time on various committees,
Merran Brooks FCA: state council, national council, as it was with CA ANZ,
Merran Brooks FCA: and I've absolutely loved all of my interactions with members
Merran Brooks FCA: and students over over that time.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Okay, brilliant. All right. So we've got a bit of
Gillian Bowen, Host: a taste of how we got to where we are today,
Gillian Bowen, Host: which is good. Now I want to dive in to
Gillian Bowen, Host: the topic, Merran I might stick with you are what is
Gillian Bowen, Host: the CA advisory group or as we will call it, as
Gillian Bowen, Host: we go through this episode, CAAG.
Merran Brooks FCA: Basically groups of senior members located in in New Zealand
Merran Brooks FCA: and also in all the states in in Australia set
Merran Brooks FCA: up to assist and support members if they're having professional
Merran Brooks FCA: or ethical dilemmas. So that's it in a nutshell. Members
Merran Brooks FCA: being able to talk to other senior members to get
Merran Brooks FCA: some assistance.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Ross what would you like to add as, as what
Gillian Bowen, Host: you see CAAG's role?
Ross Jackson FCA: Look, agree with Merran and it's very much a mentoring guidance
Ross Jackson FCA: and support for all members, not just public practice right
Ross Jackson FCA: across the board and assisting them with the ethical dilemmas,
Ross Jackson FCA: some counselling in some cases, and even employment issues and
Ross Jackson FCA: a bit of guidance there.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Okay. Well, let's stick with you then on on that Ross,
Gillian Bowen, Host: and build on it. You mentioned, you've both mentioned, ethical dilemmas.
Gillian Bowen, Host: What does that mean exactly? Ross, ehat are the sorts
Gillian Bowen, Host: of issues that CAAG can assist with?
Ross Jackson FCA: A lot of it's around client disputes and get into a conflict
Ross Jackson FCA: situation or even conflicts with other members releasing files and
Ross Jackson FCA: issues they have regarding their own restraints of trade if they're exiting a
Ross Jackson FCA: practice and also those partners and a lot in small practices
Ross Jackson FCA: that exiting or entering public practice and they come across
Ross Jackson FCA: a range of ethical dilemmas that challenge them and they
Ross Jackson FCA: just need someone to bounce those ideas off and a
Ross Jackson FCA: bit of guidance on the way through.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Merran, what
Gillian Bowen, Host: would you like to add to that?
Merran Brooks FCA: Well, I think that that covers it beautifully. What we
Merran Brooks FCA: see is that we have members that are get in
Merran Brooks FCA: touch with us that don't have anybody else, that they
Merran Brooks FCA: can bounce an idea off, whether it's a conflict they
Merran Brooks FCA: have with one of their other partners or whether they're
Merran Brooks FCA: in a small firm and they have an have an
Merran Brooks FCA: issue with a client and there's nobody that they can
Merran Brooks FCA: share that with. The other sorts of issues that we
Merran Brooks FCA: get involved with, apart from conflicts of interest, which are
Merran Brooks FCA: make up probably about 80% of what we do. We've
Merran Brooks FCA: had situations where we've had the death of a business owner,
Merran Brooks FCA: whether in practice and, you know, family members looking for
Merran Brooks FCA: assistance with that. We also help out with people who
Merran Brooks FCA: get on the wrong side of the disciplinary process. And
Merran Brooks FCA: they may have had a complaint either justified or unjustified
Merran Brooks FCA: from a client. And the members come to us and
Merran Brooks FCA: look for guidance as to how that process is likely
Merran Brooks FCA: to play out and we can give them some assistance
Merran Brooks FCA: with navigating that process. The other sorts of things we
Merran Brooks FCA: get is for for members that are in business, particularly
Merran Brooks FCA: when they've just made that adjustment into business away from
Merran Brooks FCA: practice where they're looking for assistance as to the differing
Merran Brooks FCA: roles and responsibilities they might have and things that they
Merran Brooks FCA: might come across in a different environment from practice.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Ross what is, what is a conflict of interest look like?
Gillian Bowen, Host: Is it do you think that this is where where
Gillian Bowen, Host: there's a lot of help that's needed in regards to
Gillian Bowen, Host: how that can present to you at any time of
Gillian Bowen, Host: of the day of your working week?
Ross Jackson FCA: It can, any time. I think conflict is really a
Ross Jackson FCA: gut feel of something doesn't feel right. And you have
Ross Jackson FCA: two parties that wants some advice. You may have a relationship
Ross Jackson FCA: with one or relationship with both, and they can't reach
Ross Jackson FCA: unanimous decision or in a marriage split relationship property. You
Ross Jackson FCA: just need to be really careful that it can't be
Ross Jackson FCA: advising both sides of the deal really.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Mm hmm.
Gillian Bowen, Host: And Ross, what is it that CAAG doesn't cover? What are
Gillian Bowen, Host: the sorts of things you can't get help from CAAG with?
Ross Jackson FCA: I think the most important thing is we don't give
Ross Jackson FCA: legal advice and but we can advise or refer to
Ross Jackson FCA: lawyers if it's appropriate. We don't get too involved in
Ross Jackson FCA: technical matters. Again, we'll let you know where you can
Ross Jackson FCA: go to get assistance for that and any non-work related matters. Um,
Ross Jackson FCA: often you get personal and work related intertwined a bit,
Ross Jackson FCA: but we we steer clear of the non-work related. But
Ross Jackson FCA: the other part I'm particularly careful of is if someone
Ross Jackson FCA: is already in the disciplinary process with Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand,
Ross Jackson FCA: that we can give a bit of guidance, but we
Ross Jackson FCA: don't want to give advice in respect to the discipline matters.
Gillian Bowen, Host: So there's a few constraints there for for good reason.
Ross Jackson FCA: Perfectly happy to give them suggestions and where else they
Ross Jackson FCA: might get assistance.
Gillian Bowen, Host: That's right. So you guys have got those sorts of
Gillian Bowen, Host: tools at your fingertips to be able to point people
Gillian Bowen, Host: in the right direction. I do like that idea. Merran,
Gillian Bowen, Host: what are the types of members who usually use the
Gillian Bowen, Host: CAAG service?
Merran Brooks FCA: Often it's members that are just trying to clarify their
Merran Brooks FCA: own thinking so that they've got they've got a good
Merran Brooks FCA: idea as to the issue that they've got and they've
Merran Brooks FCA: got a good idea as to what the solution is,
Merran Brooks FCA: but they're looking for feedback from somebody else. So it
Merran Brooks FCA: can be partners in firms, it can be younger members
Merran Brooks FCA: in a in a new role that they're unsure about.
Merran Brooks FCA: It can be issues that members haven't dealt with before.
Merran Brooks FCA: Often what we see are the tricky issues. So it's
Merran Brooks FCA: any member that's got a tricky issue that they really
Merran Brooks FCA: want some help with.
Gillian Bowen, Host: It's a bit of a sense check.
Merran Brooks FCA: We can we can give them a bit of a
Merran Brooks FCA: a bit of guidance on it.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Okay. So I feel like we've given a bit a
Gillian Bowen, Host: good overview, a bit of a sprinkling, as I like
Gillian Bowen, Host: to say, of, of, of what CAAG is and how
Gillian Bowen, Host: it works. Ross the next question is how do members
Gillian Bowen, Host: access it? How do they get involved, does it cost, anything, all
Gillian Bowen, Host: those sorts of details.
Ross Jackson FCA: There's a variety of ways to contact us. Certainly the
Ross Jackson FCA: website is probably the first port of call. I know
Ross Jackson FCA: that we're all listed. I checked that before. And the
Ross Jackson FCA: contact details. Brilliant. Contact the Chartered Accountants directly. The professional support
Ross Jackson FCA: staff will give assistance and then they will contact us
Ross Jackson FCA: with potential members that need some assistance. The local leadership team.
Ross Jackson FCA: I know that. And also the local regional manager has
Ross Jackson FCA: often a port of call too, so members can get in touch pretty
Ross Jackson FCA: easily and then directed through.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Indeed. And we'll make sure we put the links to
Gillian Bowen, Host: all those contacts and where information is about CAAG on the website.
Gillian Bowen, Host: So it's easy to find. I'll put that in the
Gillian Bowen, Host: show notes in the description of the episode. Before we
Gillian Bowen, Host: wrap out of run Out of time Merran I was
Gillian Bowen, Host: thinking if I've got an issue right now, is there
Gillian Bowen, Host: a long wait? Is it hard? What do I need
Gillian Bowen, Host: to do to get it on on CAAG agenda so
Gillian Bowen, Host: it can be dealt with swiftly?
Merran Brooks FCA: All of our things are dealt with. What I consider
Merran Brooks FCA: to be very swiftly, once you've made that contact and
Merran Brooks FCA: most of ours come through our regional manager in the end. Um,
Merran Brooks FCA: once the regional manager has had a chat with the member,
Merran Brooks FCA: usually what our, our people do is they identify the
Merran Brooks FCA: member of CAAG who is most appropriate to help them.
Merran Brooks FCA: So if it's a practice matter, it'll go to a
Merran Brooks FCA: prac member in practice. If it's a, you know, so
Merran Brooks FCA: they can match up the best fit and if they
Merran Brooks FCA: they get in touch with the CAAG member and then
Merran Brooks FCA: we make touch, we get in touch with the, with
Merran Brooks FCA: the member directly. Usually it's a, it's a 24, 48
Merran Brooks FCA: hour turnaround.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Oh, brilliant. Okay. And Ross, what about confidentiality?
Ross Jackson FCA: Look, certainly totally, totally confidential. Uh, the other point, just
Ross Jackson FCA: picking up on Merran there. When we do get cases,
Ross Jackson FCA: we go through a pretty thorough conflict of interest. But
Ross Jackson FCA: we don't know the members. Often in New Zealand we
Ross Jackson FCA: will deal with members out of our region so we
Ross Jackson FCA: don't actually know them. Yeah, you know, it's a pretty
Ross Jackson FCA: small place in New Zealand and one degree of separation,
Ross Jackson FCA: so we need to be. Everyone needs to know it's
Ross Jackson FCA: totally confidential and that there is no conflict.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Yes. That you've done your own checks and balances in
Gillian Bowen, Host: your end, too. I do like this extra detail. I'm
Gillian Bowen, Host: thinking as well. If there are cans members listening along
Gillian Bowen, Host: who think, Oh gosh, have the expertise or experience there,
Gillian Bowen, Host: I could be helpful in this in this role. I'm
Gillian Bowen, Host: interested in joining the CA advisory group. Merran what is the
Gillian Bowen, Host: process to get involved?
Merran Brooks FCA: I think it's it's mostly just. If you do know
Merran Brooks FCA: anybody that's already on the on CAAG speak to them
Merran Brooks FCA: about what that role involves and then they can they
Merran Brooks FCA: can let you know the process from there. I think
Merran Brooks FCA: I think it's it's a case of we try and
Merran Brooks FCA: keep a broad spread within each group of expertise. So
Merran Brooks FCA: if we're, you know, top heavy in a particular area
Merran Brooks FCA: and that's your area, maybe there'll be a short wait
Merran Brooks FCA: before you can come on to CAAG. But we're certainly
Merran Brooks FCA: always looking for members that are keen. There's got to
Merran Brooks FCA: be a fit with the with the expertise that we're
Merran Brooks FCA: looking for at the time. But..
Gillian Bowen, Host: That's. Right.
Merran Brooks FCA: Please, please always get in touch with us. And if
Merran Brooks FCA: we don't necessarily have a role for you on CAAG,
Merran Brooks FCA: I'm sure there are other committees if you've got an
Merran Brooks FCA: interest that you can involved with.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Yes, that's right. Ross, anything you'd like to add?
Ross Jackson FCA: Yeah, we do the same. We're looking always looking for
Ross Jackson FCA: succession here. We do have a rough skills matrix. What
Ross Jackson FCA: we're looking gender's important to, um, often often find female
Ross Jackson FCA: members do want to ..way more comfortable talking to another
Ross Jackson FCA: female member, and we'll make sure the whole gamut is
Ross Jackson FCA: covered through corporate and public practice and wider.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Brilliant. All right. So we're we're out of time. I'm
Gillian Bowen, Host: going to wrap this up. Final thought Merran on on any
Gillian Bowen, Host: anything you want to add in regards to CAAG why did
Gillian Bowen, Host: you get involved, why it's a good service. Over to you.
Merran Brooks FCA: Oh, look, I think from a from a personal perspective,
Merran Brooks FCA: from the CAAG group itself, it's a fantastic way of of
Merran Brooks FCA: staying connected with your professional body and being able to
Merran Brooks FCA: assist members, use some of your expertise to assist other members.
Merran Brooks FCA: I think that's what I get out of it. And
Merran Brooks FCA: hopefully the response we get from the members we help
Merran Brooks FCA: is overwhelmingly positive. They just love being able to speak
Merran Brooks FCA: to to somebody else that knows what they're going through.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Ross, anything from you?
Ross Jackson FCA: You know, look, I enjoy giving some advice and giving
Ross Jackson FCA: members assistance. It's my way of giving back to a
Ross Jackson FCA: profession that's been really good to me over the years too.
Ross Jackson FCA: And if I can help some members, of course, it's
Ross Jackson FCA: all free of charge. We give up our time and
Ross Jackson FCA: there's no cost to the members to.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Gosh, I love it. We've covered a lot. That is
Gillian Bowen, Host: all we have time for. If you want to find
Gillian Bowen, Host: out more about the CA advisory group and how to use it,
Gillian Bowen, Host: as I said, I'll put a link in the show
Gillian Bowen, Host: notes with all the information that you need, and I'll
Gillian Bowen, Host: also include a link to some recent ethics resources which
Gillian Bowen, Host: are also worth a read as well. And have you
Gillian Bowen, Host: followed the podcast in your favorite podcast app yet? Do
Gillian Bowen, Host: it today. The podcast has an email, so feel free
Gillian Bowen, Host: to get in touch. Podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com Let's start a conversation. Thank
Gillian Bowen, Host: you Merran Brooks and Ross Jackson for being my experts
Gillian Bowen, Host: on Small Firm, Big Impact.
Merran Brooks FCA: Thanks Gill. It's been great.
Ross Jackson FCA: Thanks and I really hope members get something out of this.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Bye bye.