Gillian Bowen, Host: Hello, my name is Gillian Bowen and this is Small Firm,
Gillian Bowen, Host: Big Impact.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Young people or those with early, early career or less
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: experience are just not afraid to ask for the pay rises,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: for what they want. We also this year asked about um, members'
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: expectations on their pay rises and whether or not these
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: were were met. Um, and I guess with interest rates,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: inflation and the cost of living crisis combined with the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: shortage of talent across the accounting profession or, you know,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: really many roles across different sectors, it's really resulted in
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a heightened interest in not only what people get paid,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: but like the other benefits they receive as well.
Gillian Bowen, Host: It's the podcast giving Chartered Accountants the up to date
Gillian Bowen, Host: information they need to do their jobs. Each episode, I
Gillian Bowen, Host: share resources, tools and expert advice provided by Chartered Accountants
Gillian Bowen, Host: Australia and New Zealand and a range of people across
Gillian Bowen, Host: our profession. So get following the pod in your favourite
Gillian Bowen, Host: podcast app. Let's start a conversation. Today we have Charlotte Evett, FCA,
Gillian Bowen, Host: our NZ Regions General Manager. The topic? The latest CA
Gillian Bowen, Host: ANZ member remuneration survey. Charlotte welcome back to Small Firm,
Gillian Bowen, Host: Big Impact.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Hi Gill. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.
Gillian Bowen, Host: First off let's make it clear we're going to use
Gillian Bowen, Host: the word REM because saying remuneration constantly is going to trip
Gillian Bowen, Host: you and I up. And let's do a bit of
Gillian Bowen, Host: a quick explanation about what the CA ANZ member remuneration
Gillian Bowen, Host: survey is. Sort of what it measures.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Well, um, first of all, Gill, we've been running the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the REM survey for several years now so we've got
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a really great bank of data. And um, and just
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: to give members and listeners confidence, the, um, the survey
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: is carried out and administered and the data analysed independently.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: So this year we used independent research firm Kantar and
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: it's a hot member favourite. So this year we had
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: um say almost 6000 member responses. So so um, it
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: measures a variety of things. I think one of the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: hot interest areas is, um, members information on their pay
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: or total remuneration, as we call it in the survey. Um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: we also look at non pay benefits that members receive
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: from their employer. And then we slice and dice it
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: by members roles, their location, the years experience. Um, and
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: then we also this year asked about um members expectations
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: on their pay rises and whether or not these were
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: were met. Um, and I guess with interest rates, inflation
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: and the cost of living crisis combined with the shortage
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: of talent across the accounting profession or, you know, really
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: many roles across different sectors, it's really resulted in a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: heightened interest in not only what people get paid, but
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: like the other benefits they receive as well. Um, and,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: and from anecdotal and actual evidence, it's to me, it's
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a key tool that employers use to attract and retain
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: top talent because they can't just keep paying more and
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: more and more. So they're looking to those additional benefits
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that they can help lure employees. And with um, we
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: also though um, so that's one part of it, I
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: guess we also seek in previously and continue to, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: get views around knowledge and behaviours in the workplace that
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: contribute to the the gender pay gap. So some of
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the findings were fascinating and I'm sure we'll touch on
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: them in more detail soon.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Mhm. Mhm.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Now on that the survey and its findings are available
Gillian Bowen, Host: to download from the CA ANZ website. And there's been
Gillian Bowen, Host: plenty of coverage in the media. So I will put
Gillian Bowen, Host: a link in our website. Uh, I will put a
Gillian Bowen, Host: link to our website in the show notes, because this
Gillian Bowen, Host: podcast isn't going to be able to discuss everything in
Gillian Bowen, Host: the survey in depth, right? We've only got a short
Gillian Bowen, Host: amount of time. So we're...
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: ...going to go need all day for that.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Absolutely. We're going to give you some highlights. And then
Gillian Bowen, Host: if you want to find out more you can. So
Gillian Bowen, Host: with that in mind and that we're talking to many
Gillian Bowen, Host: of our small and medium sized practice members here, let's
Gillian Bowen, Host: start with the median total REM. What are the details there.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Uh, well median total remuneration I guess the headline is
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that it grew by 3% this year or 2023, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: compared to 11% in 2022. But, uh, that's just the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: headline number. And I guess when we sort of dig
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: into the data, there were some quite interesting variances between countries, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: different sectors. And to me, most interestingly by years experience.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Mhm. Um mhm.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Yeah. Yeah. The younger the younger talent. Well let's first
Gillian Bowen, Host: of all what about going a quick snapshot on Australia
Gillian Bowen, Host: and New Zealand. The differences there. And then perhaps talk
Gillian Bowen, Host: me through um the the look at the the the
Gillian Bowen, Host: different experiences breakdown.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Okay. Well we looked at full time and part time.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: So in Australia um medium remuneration or total REM was
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: $155,000 for full time and $112 for part time, and each
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: country is reported in local currency. So in New Zealand
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: it was yes, it was $140,000 for full time workers
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: and $92,700 for part time workers. So there is a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: difference which has, um, you know, been consistent throughout the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: years between countries and also between what full time workers
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: get paid and the equivalent for part time workers.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Um, there's been a lot of focus, um, in, in
Gillian Bowen, Host: the media coverage of our REM survey on young talent and,
Gillian Bowen, Host: and the younger, uh, CAs and their increases in regards to,
Gillian Bowen, Host: to pay and and to REM. What is it? Um,
Gillian Bowen, Host: let's go through that first. What's the highlight there?
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Oh, it really is a highlight because we've read a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: lot about, you know, now is the time to be
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a young chartered accountant or to be thinking about, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: studying and becoming a chartered accountant. And this data shows
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that that couldn't be more true. So, um, beneath that
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: sort of headline number of a 3% raise, you know,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: between the years compared to 11% last year, early career members.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: And we defined them as those. With 0 to 5
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: years experience. They reported receiving a really. Significantly large pay
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: rise than those like me, unfortunately, with more experience. So, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a at least a 7.6% pay rise, they reported, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: of those that received a pay rise. So in many
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: cases this is likely to have been larger. And we
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: didn't actually go up and bands from there. But, you know,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: I imagine there were some pretty decent pay rises. So
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: to me this says, um, young people or those with
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: early um, early career or less experience are just not
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: afraid to ask for the pay rises for what they want.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: And also there is such a tight market for talent
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: and especially, um, with less experience at the moment, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: employers are having to meet that to in order to
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: secure the good talent, which is where the good news story.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: And we'll touch on this later. Um, Gill but the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: good news story, because obviously employers can't just keep getting
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: out their cheque book, to use an old parlance of the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: days of cheques and writing bigger and bigger, um, you know,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: giving bigger and bigger pay increases. There are limits on,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: on what employers can pay. So that's where the, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the additional benefits that the non remuneration benefits come in,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: which is really interesting.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Yes. I'm making a note to ensure that I do
Gillian Bowen, Host: bring up and talk about the additional benefits. And if
Gillian Bowen, Host: we don't that information is in the full survey information
Gillian Bowen, Host: which is on the website. The other part two. So
Gillian Bowen, Host: besides the young CAs asking for the extra pay rise,
Gillian Bowen, Host: the other flip side to that is the benefits of
Gillian Bowen, Host: being able to say that if you go into a
Gillian Bowen, Host: career of accounting, of being a CA, when you begin,
Gillian Bowen, Host: there is an opportunity, a real opportunity to receive a
Gillian Bowen, Host: good amount of remuneration, and that's good for them. The
Gillian Bowen, Host: flow down into attracting talent and the pipeline and then
Gillian Bowen, Host: eventually helping shortages so that the squeeze isn't so there
Gillian Bowen, Host: for our members who are really crying out to someone,
Gillian Bowen, Host: help to help them with the workload.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Yeah, yeah, well, when you pay more for something, it's,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: you know, demand and supply, I guess, basic economics that
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: makes it more attractive. So it will increase the supply.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: And the really interesting, um, one of the really interesting
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: findings to me was, and you can see this on
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the charts when you go into the remuneration survey report,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: it's not like, you know, some other careers, um, that
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that people might select where you hit a ceiling at
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a point in your career. You can see every year
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: as experience increases right through to, you know, 30 years
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: plus members reported, um, receiving sort of a bump up
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: in their, um, median remuneration. So remuneration continues to grow, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: steadily throughout um, a member's career, which is, you know,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: really good news.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Mhm.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Mhm. It's a good point on the sectors. Then when
Gillian Bowen, Host: we look at the different places and areas and organizations
Gillian Bowen, Host: that our members work, what did the REM survey find
Gillian Bowen, Host: out about that?
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Well, um, again this has been pretty consistent through years.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Um the corporate sector were the most highly paid on average,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: followed by not for profit government and then public practice.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: So that's not to say for those, you know, in
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: public practice, of which many of our listeners will be
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that public practice pays poorly, it most certainly doesn't. In fact,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: it can pay very, very well. But, um, in my experience,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: public practice firms usually employ a larger number of more
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: junior staff. So that's going to bring down the reported
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: average pay level. But you know, they actually pay decently.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: But that's the way that, um, that the average is
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: turned out. And then when we look between countries, I
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: guess if we break those results per sector down a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: bit further and Australia public practice, REM actually was the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: highest growth overall by sector. So overall that went up 6%
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: um between years. Um, then we when we look at
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: New Zealand this was interesting. And to me it made
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a lot of sense because I'm based in New Zealand.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: So very aware of what's going on here. But the, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: government are not not for profit sector. REM actually increased
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: by 9% between years, which is a very high number
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: for government. But I like um, I would say that
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: is most likely due to the lifting of the public
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: sector pay freeze, which had been in place for a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: few years in New Zealand. Yes, lifted in early 2023.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: So that may well explain that large increase between years.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Yes, that's a very good point. Look, before we move
Gillian Bowen, Host: on to having a chat about the gender pay gap,
Gillian Bowen, Host: let's talk about the additional benefits that the survey looks at.
Gillian Bowen, Host: And that is going to be key for our SMP
Gillian Bowen, Host: listeners who are with us today. What are we talking
Gillian Bowen, Host: about there?
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Well, um members received a range of different and additional benefits. Interestingly, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the top benefit reported across both countries was free or
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: subsidised professional membership. Um, so that includes membership for CA ANZ,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: or it could be for another professional body. So in
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: New Zealand, 88% of respondents or members who responded reported
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: receiving free or subsidised professional memberships. In New Zealand, it
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: was 68%, uh, sorry, Australia it was 68%. So just
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: over two thirds. Um, but there were a range of
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: other benefits reported. For example, um, almost 20% of Australian
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: respondents reported receiving additional paid leave in in New Zealand.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: That was about a third. So that's a really important one,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: I think for people that are feeling, um, just burnt
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: out and and worn down. So there were other things
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: like private health insurance. Um, in New Zealand, 29% of
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: um members that responded received um free or subsidised health insurance.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: That was a lot lower in Australia. That was 4%. Um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: but an.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Opportunity potentially for Australian firms.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Yeah for sure. Um, in Australia, 41% of members, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that was full time members reported receiving a bonus or
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: some kind of at risk component. So that was a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: bit lower in New Zealand, only 31%. So, um, you know,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: bonuses are used more in Australia. But um, yeah, it
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: was interesting. Um, but I think sort of overall, when
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: we had a look, we saw that New Zealand, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: you were more likely to receive an additional benefit in
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: New Zealand than you were overall in Australia. That could
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: include a mobile phone, like I said, health insurance, you know,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: education like paid education, annual leave, etc.. And I think
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the conclusion that that I drew from this, um, and
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: I mentioned it earlier, is that, you know, whilst base
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: pay is important, obviously we go to work to earn
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the money that pays our bills. Um, it's not it's
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: not the be all and end all. And in terms
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: of an attraction and retention tool, we've got employers have
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: all these different tools at their disposal. Disposal. Some of
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: them are, um, you know, at zero cost to them
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: or very little cost. And they're very important. And being
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: able to attract and retain top talent in a really
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: competitive market.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Mhm. Mhm.
Gillian Bowen, Host: All good points. Look let's talk gender pay gap first
Gillian Bowen, Host: I think we should explain how it's measured.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Yeah for sure. Well we um measured the gender pay
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: gap using the median hourly pay. And I guess just
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: to take a step back and explain, I think because
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: we all think we know what the gender pay gap is.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: But I hear a lot of people say, well, isn't
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that just same, you know, same pay for same role?
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: And I think it's important to understand that actually the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: gender pay gap is the difference in median earnings of
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: men and women across all roles in a workforce. So
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: for us it's across the accounting profession. But um, it
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: can be any workforce. In fact you measure them by
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: countries as well. And it's expressed as the difference between, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: men's pay and women's pay, um, as a percentage of
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: men's pay.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Okay. All right. So, um, and this information about all
Gillian Bowen, Host: of that in the survey as well, to explain how
Gillian Bowen, Host: the numbers have been calculated, what has the survey found in
Gillian Bowen, Host: regards to CAs?
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: So the survey found that when compared to 2022. So
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that was the previous year the survey was done. Um
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the pay gap in Australia closed by six percentage points.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: It went down to 13%. Um, it was a lot
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: more stubborn in New Zealand and it went down by
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a percentage point to 22%.
Gillian Bowen, Host: So and there's some there's some analysis, isn't there, as
Gillian Bowen, Host: to why we think that that's the case.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: We're of the view that the requirement, um, from 2024,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: there would be a requirement for organisations with a workforce
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: of 100 or more employees to publish their pay gap
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: has really influenced that drop down from um by six
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: percentage points, the pay gap between us and Australia. So
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: that's really influenced the reporting requirement that transparency requirements really
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: influence pushing that down. Um, we don't have any similar
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: to similar mandatory reporting requirements yet in New Zealand, although
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: we're working really, um, closely with the government and officials
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: to hopefully get that over the line. And we made
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: some really good progress last year. Um, but in terms
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: of reporting your pay gap for your organisation, we have
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a gender pay gap playbook, which Gill will put in
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the the links to this podcast. And that has some
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: really practical steps that you can take in your organisation.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: If you're a, you know, small or medium sized practice
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: or any organisation that you can take to work towards,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: first of all, measuring your pay gap and then, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: educating your leaders within your, your workplace and really, really
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: working towards helping close your pay gap and your organisation. So, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: and we're updating that with the latest data from the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: REM survey. So it'll be really current and it's so
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: easy to step through. So I encourage you to have
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a look.
Gillian Bowen, Host: On that point of education. There is some interesting research
Gillian Bowen, Host: as well in the REM survey about whether or not
Gillian Bowen, Host: that view of the existence of a gender pay gap
Gillian Bowen, Host: even exists. There's some data on that too.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: They certainly is. Gill. So each year we ask members, um,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: whether or not they believe a pay gap exists, like
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: you pointed out. So this year, the number or the
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: percentage of of respondents that believed a pay gap exists
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: dropped from 49% in 22 to 45% this year. Um, interestingly,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: women are more likely. Almost two thirds of women, or
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: just over 67% believe a pay gap exist, whereas only 28%
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: of men believe it exists. Um, I think of more
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: people understood what the pay gap is and how it
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: comes about. And if they actually took the time to
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: read through our playbook, which has been written to sort
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: of bust those myths.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Um.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Then I think they may reach a different conclusion, because
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: I think it's irrefutable. There is a gender pay gap,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: and both countries, it's measured by the governments. Um, there
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: is no doubt the data is there, that there is
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: a gender pay gap. So to me, we're missing a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: bit of education here. And I really encourage people that
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: are a little bit skeptical to go and have a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: look at our gender pay gap playbook, because there are,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: you know, like, um, there are a lot of.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Scenarios in there as well.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Real world scenarios.
Gillian Bowen, Host: And the other point to make is, and you did
Gillian Bowen, Host: say it at the start, that it is not about, um, paying, um,
Gillian Bowen, Host: pay for pay as in it is it is illegal
Gillian Bowen, Host: to not pay someone, um, the same salary for doing
Gillian Bowen, Host: exactly the same job. And that is.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Outlawed in the 70s. So yes.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Yeah, exactly. It's not what the gender pay gap is,
Gillian Bowen, Host: but I can see why there would be confusion that
Gillian Bowen, Host: people think, well, um, people are getting paid the same
Gillian Bowen, Host: for the same job, what are you talking about? So
Gillian Bowen, Host: listeners of the podcast will know how much I enjoy
Gillian Bowen, Host: putting a link to CA ANZ resources in the show notes,
Gillian Bowen, Host: so there will be plenty of links in there for
Gillian Bowen, Host: you to go and check out. Look, we're out of time.
Gillian Bowen, Host: We have had a great discussion here on a useful
Gillian Bowen, Host: resource for our members, particularly our SMP members, and a
Gillian Bowen, Host: discussion about the playbooks and resources that can support you.
Gillian Bowen, Host: And also, I'm going to give the plug a plug
Gillian Bowen, Host: to the REM survey that will in a matter of months,
Gillian Bowen, Host: will hit your inbox again. And if you are keen
Gillian Bowen, Host: to participate because we've had a great number of members,
Gillian Bowen, Host: get involved, this, uh, to the to the one that
Gillian Bowen, Host: we've just released. So that's the 2023 survey. But if
Gillian Bowen, Host: you see it pop into your inbox to give your
Gillian Bowen, Host: information for the 2024 survey, please complete it. Click on it,
Gillian Bowen, Host: because the information, the data is key. It helps us
Gillian Bowen, Host: doesn't it?
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: Oh, it's hugely helpful. And can I also give another
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: little plug is that if you go into My CA
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: you can get access to the very detailed data tables
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: which break the number of um, the REM by location,
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: by role. So for example, if you're in Victoria and
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: you're a junior accountant and you've got 0 to 5
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: years experience, they have the responses listed out and that
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: level of detail. And so you can go in there
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: and see what other people are getting paid. Um, so
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: go have a look in mMy CA, those tables are
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: broken down into tiny levels of detail in that that's
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: the part I love as probably a bit of a
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: data nerd. So.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Um, I will put a link to My CA in
Gillian Bowen, Host: the show notes as well, so you don't have to
Gillian Bowen, Host: go off and find it. For those who are listening
Gillian Bowen, Host: along with us today, look, that is all we have
Gillian Bowen, Host: time for. Have you checked out the podcast page on
Gillian Bowen, Host: the CA ANZ website? It's been given a revamp for
Gillian Bowen, Host: the start of season four, so please go and check
Gillian Bowen, Host: it out. I'll put a link to that in the
Gillian Bowen, Host: show notes as well, because there's plenty of great content,
Gillian Bowen, Host: experts and interviews and resources tailored just to you. And
Gillian Bowen, Host: if you are looking for anything, that is the place
Gillian Bowen, Host: to get it. And of course, you'll also see a
Gillian Bowen, Host: link to the podcast in the newsletters you receive from
Gillian Bowen, Host: CA ANZ. So check your preferences while you are looking
Gillian Bowen, Host: at the REM survey in My CA. If you want to
Gillian Bowen, Host: get in touch with the podcast, email us podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com and
Gillian Bowen, Host: follow the pod in your favourite podcast app. Let's start
Gillian Bowen, Host: a conversation. Thank you Charlotte Evett, for being my guest
Gillian Bowen, Host: on Small Firm, Big Impact.
Charlotte Evett FCA, General Manager, NZ Regions CA ANZ: My pleasure.
Gillian Bowen, Host: Bye bye .