WEBVTT - Payday matters 0:00:07.690 --> 0:00:11.620 Hello, my name is Gillian Bowen and this is Small Firm, 0:00:11.619 --> 0:00:12.610 Big Impact. 0:00:17.170 --> 0:00:21.700 Young people or those with early, early career or less 0:00:21.700 --> 0:00:25.509 experience are just not afraid to ask for the pay rises, 0:00:25.510 --> 0:00:29.920 for what they want. We also this year asked about um, members' 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.770 expectations on their pay rises and whether or not these 0:00:32.770 --> 0:00:36.640 were were met. Um, and I guess with interest rates, 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.090 inflation and the cost of living crisis combined with the 0:00:40.090 --> 0:00:43.120 shortage of talent across the accounting profession or, you know, 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.620 really many roles across different sectors, it's really resulted in 0:00:47.620 --> 0:00:50.230 a heightened interest in not only what people get paid, 0:00:50.229 --> 0:00:53.140 but like the other benefits they receive as well. 0:00:56.850 --> 0:00:59.850 It's the podcast giving Chartered Accountants the up to date 0:00:59.850 --> 0:01:03.270 information they need to do their jobs. Each episode, I 0:01:03.270 --> 0:01:06.810 share resources, tools and expert advice provided by Chartered Accountants 0:01:06.810 --> 0:01:10.050 Australia and New Zealand and a range of people across 0:01:10.050 --> 0:01:13.230 our profession. So get following the pod in your favourite 0:01:13.230 --> 0:01:21.390 podcast app. Let's start a conversation. Today we have Charlotte Evett, FCA, 0:01:21.420 --> 0:01:26.730 our NZ Regions General Manager. The topic? The latest CA 0:01:26.730 --> 0:01:31.170 ANZ member remuneration survey. Charlotte welcome back to Small Firm, 0:01:31.170 --> 0:01:32.190 Big Impact. 0:01:32.700 --> 0:01:35.280 Hi Gill. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here. 0:01:35.790 --> 0:01:38.069 First off let's make it clear we're going to use 0:01:38.069 --> 0:01:41.819 the word REM because saying remuneration constantly is going to trip 0:01:41.819 --> 0:01:44.670 you and I up. And let's do a bit of 0:01:44.670 --> 0:01:48.720 a quick explanation about what the CA ANZ member remuneration 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.360 survey is. Sort of what it measures. 0:01:51.870 --> 0:01:55.440 Well, um, first of all, Gill, we've been running the 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.900 the REM survey for several years now so we've got 0:01:57.900 --> 0:02:01.500 a really great bank of data. And um, and just 0:02:01.500 --> 0:02:05.820 to give members and listeners confidence, the, um, the survey 0:02:05.820 --> 0:02:09.389 is carried out and administered and the data analysed independently. 0:02:09.389 --> 0:02:12.750 So this year we used independent research firm Kantar and 0:02:12.750 --> 0:02:15.299 it's a hot member favourite. So this year we had 0:02:15.389 --> 0:02:19.890 um say almost 6000 member responses. So so um, it 0:02:19.889 --> 0:02:23.010 measures a variety of things. I think one of the 0:02:23.010 --> 0:02:27.929 hot interest areas is, um, members information on their pay 0:02:27.930 --> 0:02:30.960 or total remuneration, as we call it in the survey. Um, 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.869 we also look at non pay benefits that members receive 0:02:33.870 --> 0:02:36.990 from their employer. And then we slice and dice it 0:02:37.230 --> 0:02:42.750 by members roles, their location, the years experience. Um, and 0:02:42.750 --> 0:02:47.070 then we also this year asked about um members expectations 0:02:47.070 --> 0:02:49.739 on their pay rises and whether or not these were 0:02:49.740 --> 0:02:53.700 were met. Um, and I guess with interest rates, inflation 0:02:53.700 --> 0:02:56.970 and the cost of living crisis combined with the shortage 0:02:56.970 --> 0:03:00.150 of talent across the accounting profession or, you know, really 0:03:00.150 --> 0:03:04.170 many roles across different sectors, it's really resulted in a 0:03:04.169 --> 0:03:07.169 heightened interest in not only what people get paid, but 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.589 like the other benefits they receive as well. Um, and, 0:03:10.590 --> 0:03:15.240 and from anecdotal and actual evidence, it's to me, it's 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.940 a key tool that employers use to attract and retain 0:03:17.940 --> 0:03:20.100 top talent because they can't just keep paying more and 0:03:20.100 --> 0:03:23.250 more and more. So they're looking to those additional benefits 0:03:23.250 --> 0:03:28.260 that they can help lure employees. And with um, we 0:03:28.260 --> 0:03:30.360 also though um, so that's one part of it, I 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:34.020 guess we also seek in previously and continue to, um, 0:03:34.020 --> 0:03:37.410 get views around knowledge and behaviours in the workplace that 0:03:37.410 --> 0:03:40.260 contribute to the the gender pay gap. So some of 0:03:40.260 --> 0:03:43.170 the findings were fascinating and I'm sure we'll touch on 0:03:43.170 --> 0:03:44.400 them in more detail soon. 0:03:44.850 --> 0:03:45.510 Mhm. Mhm. 0:03:45.510 --> 0:03:48.330 Now on that the survey and its findings are available 0:03:48.330 --> 0:03:51.690 to download from the CA ANZ website. And there's been 0:03:51.690 --> 0:03:54.480 plenty of coverage in the media. So I will put 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:56.490 a link in our website. Uh, I will put a 0:03:56.490 --> 0:03:59.010 link to our website in the show notes, because this 0:03:59.010 --> 0:04:01.200 podcast isn't going to be able to discuss everything in 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.420 the survey in depth, right? We've only got a short 0:04:03.420 --> 0:04:04.950 amount of time. So we're... 0:04:04.950 --> 0:04:05.940 ...going to go need all day for that. 0:04:06.030 --> 0:04:09.150 Absolutely. We're going to give you some highlights. And then 0:04:09.150 --> 0:04:11.250 if you want to find out more you can. So 0:04:11.370 --> 0:04:14.070 with that in mind and that we're talking to many 0:04:14.070 --> 0:04:17.400 of our small and medium sized practice members here, let's 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.849 start with the median total REM. What are the details there. 0:04:21.900 --> 0:04:25.739 Uh, well median total remuneration I guess the headline is 0:04:25.740 --> 0:04:29.430 that it grew by 3% this year or 2023, um, 0:04:29.430 --> 0:04:33.750 compared to 11% in 2022. But, uh, that's just the 0:04:33.750 --> 0:04:35.669 headline number. And I guess when we sort of dig 0:04:35.670 --> 0:04:40.020 into the data, there were some quite interesting variances between countries, um, 0:04:40.020 --> 0:04:45.300 different sectors. And to me, most interestingly by years experience. 0:04:45.570 --> 0:04:46.470 Mhm. Um mhm. 0:04:46.470 --> 0:04:48.540 Yeah. Yeah. The younger the younger talent. Well let's first 0:04:48.540 --> 0:04:51.240 of all what about going a quick snapshot on Australia 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.940 and New Zealand. The differences there. And then perhaps talk 0:04:53.940 --> 0:04:57.359 me through um the the look at the the the 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.220 different experiences breakdown. 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.490 Okay. Well we looked at full time and part time. 0:05:02.490 --> 0:05:06.840 So in Australia um medium remuneration or total REM was 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:12.360 $155,000 for full time and $112 for part time, and each 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.870 country is reported in local currency. So in New Zealand 0:05:16.140 --> 0:05:20.580 it was yes, it was $140,000 for full time workers 0:05:20.580 --> 0:05:24.719 and $92,700 for part time workers. So there is a 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.440 difference which has, um, you know, been consistent throughout the 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.680 years between countries and also between what full time workers 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.680 get paid and the equivalent for part time workers. 0:05:35.100 --> 0:05:37.500 Um, there's been a lot of focus, um, in, in 0:05:37.500 --> 0:05:41.340 the media coverage of our REM survey on young talent and, 0:05:41.339 --> 0:05:47.400 and the younger, uh, CAs and their increases in regards to, 0:05:47.430 --> 0:05:50.339 to pay and and to REM. What is it? Um, 0:05:50.339 --> 0:05:53.070 let's go through that first. What's the highlight there? 0:05:53.370 --> 0:05:55.680 Oh, it really is a highlight because we've read a 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.380 lot about, you know, now is the time to be 0:05:58.380 --> 0:06:01.919 a young chartered accountant or to be thinking about, um, 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.979 studying and becoming a chartered accountant. And this data shows 0:06:04.980 --> 0:06:08.880 that that couldn't be more true. So, um, beneath that 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.570 sort of headline number of a 3% raise, you know, 0:06:12.570 --> 0:06:17.190 between the years compared to 11% last year, early career members. 0:06:17.190 --> 0:06:19.229 And we defined them as those. With 0 to 5 0:06:19.230 --> 0:06:24.570 years experience. They reported receiving a really. Significantly large pay 0:06:24.570 --> 0:06:29.460 rise than those like me, unfortunately, with more experience. So, um, 0:06:29.460 --> 0:06:34.830 a at least a 7.6% pay rise, they reported, um, 0:06:34.830 --> 0:06:37.229 of those that received a pay rise. So in many 0:06:37.230 --> 0:06:39.600 cases this is likely to have been larger. And we 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.180 didn't actually go up and bands from there. But, you know, 0:06:42.180 --> 0:06:45.270 I imagine there were some pretty decent pay rises. So 0:06:45.270 --> 0:06:48.870 to me this says, um, young people or those with 0:06:48.870 --> 0:06:52.620 early um, early career or less experience are just not 0:06:52.620 --> 0:06:56.039 afraid to ask for the pay rises for what they want. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.130 And also there is such a tight market for talent 0:06:59.130 --> 0:07:03.330 and especially, um, with less experience at the moment, um, 0:07:03.330 --> 0:07:06.150 employers are having to meet that to in order to 0:07:06.150 --> 0:07:08.730 secure the good talent, which is where the good news story. 0:07:08.730 --> 0:07:11.970 And we'll touch on this later. Um, Gill but the 0:07:11.970 --> 0:07:15.450 good news story, because obviously employers can't just keep getting 0:07:15.450 --> 0:07:18.600 out their cheque book, to use an old parlance of the 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.200 days of cheques and writing bigger and bigger, um, you know, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.800 giving bigger and bigger pay increases. There are limits on, 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.620 on what employers can pay. So that's where the, um, 0:07:28.620 --> 0:07:32.190 the additional benefits that the non remuneration benefits come in, 0:07:32.190 --> 0:07:33.540 which is really interesting. 0:07:33.660 --> 0:07:35.970 Yes. I'm making a note to ensure that I do 0:07:35.970 --> 0:07:38.070 bring up and talk about the additional benefits. And if 0:07:38.070 --> 0:07:42.390 we don't that information is in the full survey information 0:07:42.390 --> 0:07:45.120 which is on the website. The other part two. So 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:50.040 besides the young CAs asking for the extra pay rise, 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.230 the other flip side to that is the benefits of 0:07:52.230 --> 0:07:54.239 being able to say that if you go into a 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:59.070 career of accounting, of being a CA, when you begin, 0:07:59.070 --> 0:08:04.170 there is an opportunity, a real opportunity to receive a 0:08:04.170 --> 0:08:07.350 good amount of remuneration, and that's good for them. The 0:08:07.350 --> 0:08:10.830 flow down into attracting talent and the pipeline and then 0:08:10.830 --> 0:08:15.210 eventually helping shortages so that the squeeze isn't so there 0:08:15.210 --> 0:08:18.780 for our members who are really crying out to someone, 0:08:18.780 --> 0:08:20.850 help to help them with the workload. 0:08:20.850 --> 0:08:23.940 Yeah, yeah, well, when you pay more for something, it's, 0:08:23.940 --> 0:08:26.489 you know, demand and supply, I guess, basic economics that 0:08:26.490 --> 0:08:29.040 makes it more attractive. So it will increase the supply. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.640 And the really interesting, um, one of the really interesting 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.920 findings to me was, and you can see this on 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.520 the charts when you go into the remuneration survey report, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.780 it's not like, you know, some other careers, um, that 0:08:42.780 --> 0:08:46.380 that people might select where you hit a ceiling at 0:08:46.380 --> 0:08:48.600 a point in your career. You can see every year 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:52.260 as experience increases right through to, you know, 30 years 0:08:52.260 --> 0:08:56.340 plus members reported, um, receiving sort of a bump up 0:08:56.340 --> 0:09:02.220 in their, um, median remuneration. So remuneration continues to grow, um, 0:09:02.220 --> 0:09:05.940 steadily throughout um, a member's career, which is, you know, 0:09:05.940 --> 0:09:06.929 really good news. 0:09:07.230 --> 0:09:07.530 Mhm. 0:09:07.650 --> 0:09:10.079 Mhm. It's a good point on the sectors. Then when 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:14.370 we look at the different places and areas and organizations 0:09:14.370 --> 0:09:17.130 that our members work, what did the REM survey find 0:09:17.130 --> 0:09:18.000 out about that? 0:09:18.510 --> 0:09:22.980 Well, um, again this has been pretty consistent through years. 0:09:23.100 --> 0:09:26.340 Um the corporate sector were the most highly paid on average, 0:09:26.340 --> 0:09:30.030 followed by not for profit government and then public practice. 0:09:30.030 --> 0:09:32.820 So that's not to say for those, you know, in 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.760 public practice, of which many of our listeners will be 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.390 that public practice pays poorly, it most certainly doesn't. In fact, 0:09:39.390 --> 0:09:43.200 it can pay very, very well. But, um, in my experience, 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.620 public practice firms usually employ a larger number of more 0:09:46.620 --> 0:09:49.349 junior staff. So that's going to bring down the reported 0:09:49.350 --> 0:09:52.020 average pay level. But you know, they actually pay decently. 0:09:52.020 --> 0:09:55.319 But that's the way that, um, that the average is 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.380 turned out. And then when we look between countries, I 0:09:58.380 --> 0:10:01.439 guess if we break those results per sector down a 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.730 bit further and Australia public practice, REM actually was the 0:10:05.730 --> 0:10:10.109 highest growth overall by sector. So overall that went up 6% 0:10:10.260 --> 0:10:12.960 um between years. Um, then we when we look at 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.660 New Zealand this was interesting. And to me it made 0:10:15.660 --> 0:10:17.670 a lot of sense because I'm based in New Zealand. 0:10:17.670 --> 0:10:20.429 So very aware of what's going on here. But the, um, 0:10:20.429 --> 0:10:23.939 government are not not for profit sector. REM actually increased 0:10:23.940 --> 0:10:27.150 by 9% between years, which is a very high number 0:10:27.150 --> 0:10:31.410 for government. But I like um, I would say that 0:10:31.410 --> 0:10:34.230 is most likely due to the lifting of the public 0:10:34.230 --> 0:10:36.390 sector pay freeze, which had been in place for a 0:10:36.390 --> 0:10:39.840 few years in New Zealand. Yes, lifted in early 2023. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.050 So that may well explain that large increase between years. 0:10:43.050 --> 0:10:45.360 Yes, that's a very good point. Look, before we move 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.280 on to having a chat about the gender pay gap, 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:51.600 let's talk about the additional benefits that the survey looks at. 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.090 And that is going to be key for our SMP 0:10:54.090 --> 0:10:56.880 listeners who are with us today. What are we talking 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:57.570 about there? 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:05.270 Well, um members received a range of different and additional benefits. Interestingly, um, 0:11:05.270 --> 0:11:08.810 the top benefit reported across both countries was free or 0:11:08.809 --> 0:11:14.120 subsidised professional membership. Um, so that includes membership for CA ANZ, 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.880 or it could be for another professional body. So in 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:21.170 New Zealand, 88% of respondents or members who responded reported 0:11:21.170 --> 0:11:25.309 receiving free or subsidised professional memberships. In New Zealand, it 0:11:25.309 --> 0:11:28.790 was 68%, uh, sorry, Australia it was 68%. So just 0:11:28.790 --> 0:11:31.939 over two thirds. Um, but there were a range of 0:11:31.940 --> 0:11:36.560 other benefits reported. For example, um, almost 20% of Australian 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.069 respondents reported receiving additional paid leave in in New Zealand. 0:11:40.070 --> 0:11:42.709 That was about a third. So that's a really important one, 0:11:42.710 --> 0:11:45.199 I think for people that are feeling, um, just burnt 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.740 out and and worn down. So there were other things 0:11:48.740 --> 0:11:53.630 like private health insurance. Um, in New Zealand, 29% of 0:11:53.630 --> 0:11:57.440 um members that responded received um free or subsidised health insurance. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.430 That was a lot lower in Australia. That was 4%. Um, 0:12:01.429 --> 0:12:01.730 but an. 0:12:01.730 --> 0:12:04.640 Opportunity potentially for Australian firms. 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:11.240 Yeah for sure. Um, in Australia, 41% of members, um, 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.059 that was full time members reported receiving a bonus or 0:12:14.059 --> 0:12:16.069 some kind of at risk component. So that was a 0:12:16.070 --> 0:12:19.819 bit lower in New Zealand, only 31%. So, um, you know, 0:12:19.820 --> 0:12:23.510 bonuses are used more in Australia. But um, yeah, it 0:12:23.510 --> 0:12:27.290 was interesting. Um, but I think sort of overall, when 0:12:27.290 --> 0:12:30.500 we had a look, we saw that New Zealand, um, 0:12:30.500 --> 0:12:32.840 you were more likely to receive an additional benefit in 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.239 New Zealand than you were overall in Australia. That could 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.300 include a mobile phone, like I said, health insurance, you know, 0:12:38.300 --> 0:12:43.010 education like paid education, annual leave, etc.. And I think 0:12:43.010 --> 0:12:46.130 the conclusion that that I drew from this, um, and 0:12:46.130 --> 0:12:48.380 I mentioned it earlier, is that, you know, whilst base 0:12:48.380 --> 0:12:51.020 pay is important, obviously we go to work to earn 0:12:51.020 --> 0:12:54.740 the money that pays our bills. Um, it's not it's 0:12:54.740 --> 0:12:56.990 not the be all and end all. And in terms 0:12:56.990 --> 0:13:00.260 of an attraction and retention tool, we've got employers have 0:13:00.260 --> 0:13:03.620 all these different tools at their disposal. Disposal. Some of 0:13:03.620 --> 0:13:06.620 them are, um, you know, at zero cost to them 0:13:06.620 --> 0:13:09.170 or very little cost. And they're very important. And being 0:13:09.170 --> 0:13:11.750 able to attract and retain top talent in a really 0:13:11.750 --> 0:13:12.860 competitive market. 0:13:13.220 --> 0:13:13.970 Mhm. Mhm. 0:13:13.970 --> 0:13:17.150 All good points. Look let's talk gender pay gap first 0:13:17.150 --> 0:13:20.090 I think we should explain how it's measured. 0:13:20.750 --> 0:13:24.500 Yeah for sure. Well we um measured the gender pay 0:13:24.500 --> 0:13:29.120 gap using the median hourly pay. And I guess just 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.209 to take a step back and explain, I think because 0:13:32.300 --> 0:13:34.189 we all think we know what the gender pay gap is. 0:13:34.190 --> 0:13:36.170 But I hear a lot of people say, well, isn't 0:13:36.170 --> 0:13:39.319 that just same, you know, same pay for same role? 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.050 And I think it's important to understand that actually the 0:13:42.050 --> 0:13:44.720 gender pay gap is the difference in median earnings of 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.990 men and women across all roles in a workforce. So 0:13:47.990 --> 0:13:50.810 for us it's across the accounting profession. But um, it 0:13:50.809 --> 0:13:53.150 can be any workforce. In fact you measure them by 0:13:53.150 --> 0:13:57.950 countries as well. And it's expressed as the difference between, um, 0:13:57.950 --> 0:14:01.400 men's pay and women's pay, um, as a percentage of 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:02.090 men's pay. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.470 Okay. All right. So, um, and this information about all 0:14:06.470 --> 0:14:08.390 of that in the survey as well, to explain how 0:14:08.390 --> 0:14:12.200 the numbers have been calculated, what has the survey found in 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:13.670 regards to CAs? 0:14:14.090 --> 0:14:18.140 So the survey found that when compared to 2022. So 0:14:18.140 --> 0:14:21.170 that was the previous year the survey was done. Um 0:14:21.170 --> 0:14:24.200 the pay gap in Australia closed by six percentage points. 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.230 It went down to 13%. Um, it was a lot 0:14:27.230 --> 0:14:30.110 more stubborn in New Zealand and it went down by 0:14:30.110 --> 0:14:32.360 a percentage point to 22%. 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.730 So and there's some there's some analysis, isn't there, as 0:14:34.730 --> 0:14:37.280 to why we think that that's the case. 0:14:37.970 --> 0:14:42.170 We're of the view that the requirement, um, from 2024, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.100 there would be a requirement for organisations with a workforce 0:14:46.100 --> 0:14:49.520 of 100 or more employees to publish their pay gap 0:14:50.030 --> 0:14:53.390 has really influenced that drop down from um by six 0:14:53.390 --> 0:14:56.840 percentage points, the pay gap between us and Australia. So 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.400 that's really influenced the reporting requirement that transparency requirements really 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.090 influence pushing that down. Um, we don't have any similar 0:15:05.090 --> 0:15:09.020 to similar mandatory reporting requirements yet in New Zealand, although 0:15:09.020 --> 0:15:13.010 we're working really, um, closely with the government and officials 0:15:13.010 --> 0:15:15.350 to hopefully get that over the line. And we made 0:15:15.350 --> 0:15:18.890 some really good progress last year. Um, but in terms 0:15:18.890 --> 0:15:22.850 of reporting your pay gap for your organisation, we have 0:15:22.850 --> 0:15:25.700 a gender pay gap playbook, which Gill will put in 0:15:25.700 --> 0:15:29.180 the the links to this podcast. And that has some 0:15:29.180 --> 0:15:32.840 really practical steps that you can take in your organisation. 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.030 If you're a, you know, small or medium sized practice 0:15:35.030 --> 0:15:38.090 or any organisation that you can take to work towards, 0:15:38.090 --> 0:15:41.090 first of all, measuring your pay gap and then, um, 0:15:41.090 --> 0:15:46.580 educating your leaders within your, your workplace and really, really 0:15:46.580 --> 0:15:50.240 working towards helping close your pay gap and your organisation. So, um, 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.550 and we're updating that with the latest data from the 0:15:52.550 --> 0:15:54.710 REM survey. So it'll be really current and it's so 0:15:54.710 --> 0:15:56.900 easy to step through. So I encourage you to have 0:15:56.900 --> 0:15:57.440 a look. 0:15:57.990 --> 0:16:02.670 On that point of education. There is some interesting research 0:16:02.670 --> 0:16:06.630 as well in the REM survey about whether or not 0:16:06.630 --> 0:16:09.810 that view of the existence of a gender pay gap 0:16:09.810 --> 0:16:12.150 even exists. There's some data on that too. 0:16:12.870 --> 0:16:16.920 They certainly is. Gill. So each year we ask members, um, 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.380 whether or not they believe a pay gap exists, like 0:16:19.380 --> 0:16:22.740 you pointed out. So this year, the number or the 0:16:22.740 --> 0:16:26.820 percentage of of respondents that believed a pay gap exists 0:16:26.820 --> 0:16:32.970 dropped from 49% in 22 to 45% this year. Um, interestingly, 0:16:32.970 --> 0:16:36.240 women are more likely. Almost two thirds of women, or 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:41.370 just over 67% believe a pay gap exist, whereas only 28% 0:16:41.370 --> 0:16:44.670 of men believe it exists. Um, I think of more 0:16:44.670 --> 0:16:47.190 people understood what the pay gap is and how it 0:16:47.190 --> 0:16:49.200 comes about. And if they actually took the time to 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.600 read through our playbook, which has been written to sort 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.160 of bust those myths. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:53.850 Um. 0:16:54.150 --> 0:16:57.570 Then I think they may reach a different conclusion, because 0:16:57.570 --> 0:17:00.540 I think it's irrefutable. There is a gender pay gap, 0:17:00.540 --> 0:17:03.990 and both countries, it's measured by the governments. Um, there 0:17:03.990 --> 0:17:06.330 is no doubt the data is there, that there is 0:17:06.330 --> 0:17:08.429 a gender pay gap. So to me, we're missing a 0:17:08.430 --> 0:17:11.100 bit of education here. And I really encourage people that 0:17:11.100 --> 0:17:13.200 are a little bit skeptical to go and have a 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.840 look at our gender pay gap playbook, because there are, 0:17:15.869 --> 0:17:18.030 you know, like, um, there are a lot of. 0:17:18.420 --> 0:17:20.040 Scenarios in there as well. 0:17:20.310 --> 0:17:21.450 Real world scenarios. 0:17:21.570 --> 0:17:23.520 And the other point to make is, and you did 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.899 say it at the start, that it is not about, um, paying, um, 0:17:27.900 --> 0:17:30.750 pay for pay as in it is it is illegal 0:17:30.750 --> 0:17:34.410 to not pay someone, um, the same salary for doing 0:17:34.410 --> 0:17:36.960 exactly the same job. And that is. 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:38.880 Outlawed in the 70s. So yes. 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:40.979 Yeah, exactly. It's not what the gender pay gap is, 0:17:40.980 --> 0:17:43.199 but I can see why there would be confusion that 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.830 people think, well, um, people are getting paid the same 0:17:46.830 --> 0:17:48.900 for the same job, what are you talking about? So 0:17:49.260 --> 0:17:52.080 listeners of the podcast will know how much I enjoy 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.550 putting a link to CA ANZ resources in the show notes, 0:17:56.550 --> 0:17:59.939 so there will be plenty of links in there for 0:17:59.940 --> 0:18:02.399 you to go and check out. Look, we're out of time. 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.520 We have had a great discussion here on a useful 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:09.390 resource for our members, particularly our SMP members, and a 0:18:09.390 --> 0:18:12.930 discussion about the playbooks and resources that can support you. 0:18:12.930 --> 0:18:15.270 And also, I'm going to give the plug a plug 0:18:15.270 --> 0:18:17.879 to the REM survey that will in a matter of months, 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.510 will hit your inbox again. And if you are keen 0:18:21.510 --> 0:18:24.750 to participate because we've had a great number of members, 0:18:24.750 --> 0:18:26.879 get involved, this, uh, to the to the one that 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.970 we've just released. So that's the 2023 survey. But if 0:18:29.970 --> 0:18:32.580 you see it pop into your inbox to give your 0:18:32.580 --> 0:18:36.780 information for the 2024 survey, please complete it. Click on it, 0:18:36.780 --> 0:18:39.630 because the information, the data is key. It helps us 0:18:39.630 --> 0:18:40.110 doesn't it? 0:18:40.500 --> 0:18:43.050 Oh, it's hugely helpful. And can I also give another 0:18:43.050 --> 0:18:45.810 little plug is that if you go into My CA 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.230 you can get access to the very detailed data tables 0:18:49.230 --> 0:18:52.350 which break the number of um, the REM by location, 0:18:52.350 --> 0:18:56.790 by role. So for example, if you're in Victoria and 0:18:56.790 --> 0:18:59.280 you're a junior accountant and you've got 0 to 5 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.490 years experience, they have the responses listed out and that 0:19:02.490 --> 0:19:04.350 level of detail. And so you can go in there 0:19:04.350 --> 0:19:06.929 and see what other people are getting paid. Um, so 0:19:06.930 --> 0:19:08.879 go have a look in mMy CA, those tables are 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.570 broken down into tiny levels of detail in that that's 0:19:12.570 --> 0:19:14.310 the part I love as probably a bit of a 0:19:14.310 --> 0:19:15.480 data nerd. So. 0:19:15.780 --> 0:19:17.490 Um, I will put a link to My CA in 0:19:17.490 --> 0:19:18.959 the show notes as well, so you don't have to 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.030 go off and find it. For those who are listening 0:19:21.030 --> 0:19:23.460 along with us today, look, that is all we have 0:19:23.460 --> 0:19:26.430 time for. Have you checked out the podcast page on 0:19:26.430 --> 0:19:29.340 the CA ANZ website? It's been given a revamp for 0:19:29.340 --> 0:19:31.800 the start of season four, so please go and check 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:33.300 it out. I'll put a link to that in the 0:19:33.300 --> 0:19:36.090 show notes as well, because there's plenty of great content, 0:19:36.090 --> 0:19:39.600 experts and interviews and resources tailored just to you. And 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.240 if you are looking for anything, that is the place 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.100 to get it. And of course, you'll also see a 0:19:44.100 --> 0:19:46.560 link to the podcast in the newsletters you receive from 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:50.130 CA ANZ. So check your preferences while you are looking 0:19:50.130 --> 0:19:52.830 at the REM survey in My CA. If you want to 0:19:52.830 --> 0:19:57.600 get in touch with the podcast, email us podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com and 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:01.080 follow the pod in your favourite podcast app. Let's start 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.110 a conversation. Thank you Charlotte Evett, for being my guest 0:20:04.109 --> 0:20:06.000 on Small Firm, Big Impact. 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:06.869 My pleasure. 0:20:06.869 --> 0:20:08.040 Bye bye .